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2005-11-21 Home Front: WoT

Al Qaeda Operative Captured @ Texas-Mexico Border

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Posted by Gring Jaiger2059 2005-11-21 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Shut the F*cking border now.

No way can the mismanaged, bloated, unionized Federal bureaucracys get the job done without spending 200,000,000,000 billion dollars a year on each illegal deported.

Citizens, local Sheriffs and Cops with funding from the Feds would do a much better job.

and build a wall ASAP!!

only manage 10 miles of the least traveled section of our southern border. Then give state, county, and local cities the resourses to let sherriffs, cops, and citizens

Posted by Red Dog 2005-11-21 01:20|| 2005-11-21 01:20|| Front Page Top

#2 oops bottom two lines, forgots to delete

Posted by Red Dog 2005-11-21 01:22|| 2005-11-21 01:22|| Front Page Top

#3 Red Dog, a wall would be too... uhh, what's the cleanest way to put this... static. ;)

Posted by Edward Yee 2005-11-21 02:02|| http://edwardyee.fanworks.net]">[http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2005-11-21 02:02|| Front Page Top

#4 Red Dog, a wall would be too... uhh, what's the cleanest way to put this... static. ;)

ok.. build fields of fire, red leg TOT, claymores, Sandys, etc? ;)

Posted by Dawg 2005-11-21 02:13|| 2005-11-21 02:13|| Front Page Top

#5 ..and a moat with millions of tiny rubber robot rascals in it.

Posted by Red Dog 2005-11-21 02:19|| 2005-11-21 02:19|| Front Page Top

#6 How many did they miss before they caught this asshole?

Sounds like he's got a date with a waterboard.

EP

Posted by ElvisHasLeftTheBuilding 2005-11-21 02:26|| 2005-11-21 02:26|| Front Page Top

#7 Just give him a tryptophane-free Thanksgiving dinner. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-11-21 02:56|| 2005-11-21 02:56|| Front Page Top

#8 :> RD

Posted by Shipman 2005-11-21 07:38|| 2005-11-21 07:38|| Front Page Top

#9 Good, this is the wedge we needed to get the right people fired up on this border thing.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2005-11-21 08:08|| 2005-11-21 08:08|| Front Page Top

#10 Calls to relese him in 5...4...3...

I'm sure the Democrats are working overtime to get him into the Catch and Release program. They can probably even find him a job too (in an explosives factory...).

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-11-21 09:23|| 2005-11-21 09:23|| Front Page Top

#11 This is one of those stories that just irritates you to the core.

Every government official, elected or bureaucrat ought to be howling mad about this story.

We (the U.S.) spends billions at the border for nothing. Hell, let the citizens or local police handle the situation. Hell, let the girl scouts handle the situation--they would most likely do better than is currently done.

If this problem is not addressed now, we will see another 911. Then we will see all MSM wetting their pants. We will see politicians running for cover. We will hear endless bullshit from Ted, Bill, Jimmy, Dirty Dingy Dimi Harry, Hildebeast, Biden, etc. We will have endless Congressional inquiries about why it happened.

I don't think Washington has the stones to do anything about this problem.

Make this slack jaw jihadists listen to Eminem until he screams that he will give up information. Tryptophan is acceptable too. Keel haul the son of a bitch.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-21 09:26|| 2005-11-21 09:26|| Front Page Top

#12 "I don't think Washington has the stones to do anything about this problem."

Not yet - but keep this up folks and they'll grow a pair. They just be a-skeered to do anything, even when it's intuitively obvious to the casual observer, unless they be thinkin' the voters will cover their sorry asses. Threatening them with massive bitch slappin' works, too, heh. The smart ones, okay - there aren't many of those, I admit - have people reading the blogs and such, taking the pulse, doncha know. They'll hear you eventually. Prolly right after the first hit is credited to an illegal, and it doesn't matter which border he crossed... in fact, I'd wager a sizeable sum that many many more of the jihadi types come across from Canuckistan than Smacksico. The really like 'em up there. You can tell cuz they let so many in and don't watch 'em any better than we do.

Posted by .com 2005-11-21 09:54|| 2005-11-21 09:54|| Front Page Top

#13 Canuckistan. That is really funny. LOL!

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-21 10:01|| 2005-11-21 10:01|| Front Page Top

#14 It's one thing to identify a problem. It's another matter to figure out how to solve that problem without causing side effects that are themselves pretty bad. Even where security is at stake, there are tough tradeoffs around building a fence or diverting massive amounts of military or police presence to the borders.

We desperately need a public debate on the issue, but it's simply false to say that nothing is being done now. There ARE things being done - including, for instance, UAVs being deployed for constant border surveillance as quickly as they can be built and pilots trained. The "No One Cares About Border Security" meme is being echoed a little too casually IMO.

Are we doing as much as I'd like? No.
Should we do more? Yes.
Have we had some successes in stopping these homocidal idiots at our borders? Yes - more than one, since at least the Y2K guy who tried to come into Washington state from Canada in 1999 and others since then too.

Is the Administration oblivious to the problem? Not so far as I can see. But a) they do NOT have popular support for taking tough measures - and probably will not until/unless one attacker slips through and successfully kills a lot of people here at home again and b) there really are those nagging economic and other considerations to be factored into the equation.

It's a tough one and as a society we're going to need to figure out some common agreement about civil liberties v. security here at home. I wish I felt optimistic that we could do that without tearing the country apart.

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 10:10|| 2005-11-21 10:10|| Front Page Top

#15 John Q We (the U.S.) spends billions at the border for nothing While I agree billions are wasted - at least they caught this guy. Of course, it may have been other security services who fingered him.

As for the border - we could shut it within a year - if that's what we wanted. But we are like France in this regard. All talk and no meaningful action because we want to have our border with Mexico two ways. We want the honest workers (maybe you don't, but enough people do). But thanks to a happy marriage between the PC crowd and big business - nobody wants to come up with a real program that would allow workers and protect them.

The only difference I see between our government and the French government on the issue of dealing with a massive immigration problem is that we have armed citizens willing to patrol the border and now THAT'S becoming an issue our Federal Govn't has to address.

Posted by 2b 2005-11-21 10:28|| 2005-11-21 10:28|| Front Page Top

#16 It drives me nuts when I hear someone say "it costs too much to put up a secure border fence. We don't have the money." Thats total Barbara Streisand. The Fed Gov can come up with 70 billion dollars in 1 day when theres a hurricane. They could fund this thing if they wanted to. Too many spineless empty suits in Washington.

Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2005-11-21 10:37|| 2005-11-21 10:37|| Front Page Top

#17 There ARE things being done - including, for instance, UAVs being deployed for constant border surveillance as quickly as they can be built and pilots trained. The "No One Cares About Border Security" meme is being echoed a little too casually IMO.

UAVs cannot determine a person's intent, nationality, or legal status. This seems to be too heavy a reliance on technology. What is needed is people on the ground sorting out the border crossers.

While it is good that we caught the A-Q guy, it seems to be happenstance. Moreover, the guy was turned over to local authorities because he pissed off the Mexicans.

I am against encroachment at our borders by illegals. They are illegals by definition. They are breaking our immigration laws. I am not for looking the other way when the "good" ones come across and trying to stop the "bad" ones when the attempt to cross. We need to enforce our laws.

A-Q is learning Spanish. They are scoping out our weaknesses. They will at some point attack us. Agreed we have Posse Comitatus issues but I don't think that means we can't do anything. There are plenty of things we can do.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-21 10:41|| 2005-11-21 10:41|| Front Page Top

#18 It's not the cost of the fence that I was thinking about when I mentioned economics. It's the wider / more subtle impact on our economy of slowing down trade and the flow of those laborers who do a good job and want to work responsibly here.

The Wall Street Journal has its own biases, but is a good indicator of concerns that bigger businesses have. There's an editorial up today about the fact that we are a bit less attractive than we used to be to rising new talent around the world.

Our economic system is powerful and flexible, but that power and flexibility hinges on openess to new ideas, new capital and new people. Walls on our borders will have a negative impact on the economy. The question is, how much of one and to what degree could that be mitigated somehow?

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 10:45|| 2005-11-21 10:45|| Front Page Top

#19 HA!! I knew it! Experts where saying that they would only come through Canada because:

Canada has a higher Muslim population and better support base.
Guests of Mexican jails stay longer.

I knew that was bull! You go with the easiest way in. With a few hundred thousand illegals crossing each year, it's easier to blend in.

Posted by Ray Robison 2005-11-21 10:45|| 2005-11-21 10:45|| Front Page Top

#20 I'd tend to agree 2b. In one corner are the crying phukwits complaining about how unfair it is to remove illegals and in the other there are phukwits complaining that because our government's turned a blind eye to illegals for years certain businesses have come to rely upon being able to hire illegals as a matter of right and the sky will fall unless they are allowed to carry on business as usual. It all adds up to an unholy alliance that does not benefit the majority of Americans in any way. Everyday I wonder just what will it take before spineless Beltway rodents feel cornered enough to act affirmatively on behalf of the majority of us.

Posted by MunkarKat 2005-11-21 10:45|| 2005-11-21 10:45|| Front Page Top

#21 A-Q is learning Spanish. They are scoping out our weaknesses. They will at some point attack us. Agreed we have Posse Comitatus issues but I don't think that means we can't do anything. There are plenty of things we can do.

Agreed on the Spanish link. And it's not just the Islamacists - the MS-13 network is deadly in their own right, has already targeted US cops for assasination and have also formed some connections with al-Qaeda. They've been moving in on the coyote business on our southern border, which is one reason the Feds arrested 800 or so MS-13 members a few months ago. Remember that operation? They've arrested over 1000 gang members in all in 2005 so far.

That was "boots on the ground" work.

Re: Posse Comitatus - even if we did not have a single soldier deployed overseas, we would be hard put to patrol the what, 6000? miles of borders, as if the whole country is an armed encampment. So there has to be some mix of things that are somewhere between what we are doing now and putting the country into a vault.

Suggestions?

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 10:53|| 2005-11-21 10:53|| Front Page Top

#22 PS: don't underestimate the value of the UAVs. They are a valuable force multiplier when used for recon/surveillance. Used correctly, with the right people/training to act on info gathered, they're a very useful asset.

We've only been using them in Dept Homeland Defense for about a year now. I suspect we need a lot more training of the border patrol people before we will get the value from them that the Army gets, but then that's true of most tactical assets. Also, there have been some operational issues regarding UAVs within our national air space ... things relating to commercial and private manned planes being able to see/ recognize them etc. Those have mostly been worked out now at the FAA (see this memo), which means they can be deployed more aggressively along the borders..

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 10:55|| 2005-11-21 10:55|| Front Page Top

#23 I thought I'd throw the following into the debate. If anyone has any doubts about what A-Q and other terrorists are capable of go to Michael Savage's website and scroll down to the section regarding "Know your enemy." I must warn you, it is grisly, grim, and very ugly. Check it out if you have any doubts about A-Qs intentions. Link

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-21 10:56|| 2005-11-21 10:56|| Front Page Top

#24 "He was captured in Mexico. This was within the last six weeks. He was turned over to the FBI."

Interesting that this happened within the past six weeks, yet the date on this article was yesterday. And then the congressman that mentioned this was said to have spoken of it on Friday.

I wonder, just who is tryin' to keep this hush hush so that the public doesn't get even more pissed off about the border situation than they already are?

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-11-21 10:59|| 2005-11-21 10:59|| Front Page Top

#25 lopt - bravo. The greatest lies contain a truth. You put your finger to your chin and state that we benefit from the workers. Brilliant! How do you do it?

The issue is not that we welcome the hard working Mexican immigrants. The issue is that the method by which we allow them to enter the United States is less than satisfactory. Oh and that pesky matter that during the WOT it's downright dangerous. But, hehy, I guess it won't be YOU who gets blown up by a terrorist act. It will be "somebody else", right?

Just so we can all be clear here and not get wrapped up in your strawman, the real issue here is about HOW we should deal with allowing immigrants into our country.

You aren't as nice as you'd like to think you are. You think it's no big deal when a little boy gets his tiny arm rolled over so his dad can make a buck. And you don't seem to mind that those Mexican workers whom we all value and appreciate are forced to cross the border in a manner that puts them at great risk for rip-off, rape, and death. And you don't seem to mind that the manner in which they are allowed in here makes them easy prey for rip off once they arrive. The whole reason that they are so cheap is because there are no laws to protect them. They can't complain if an employer chooses not to pay them or makes them work in unsafe conditions.

Some of us believe that we should focus some energies into finding a BETTER way to import workers that benefits both us and the workers. In the process, we can secure our borders from terrorists. Maybe you feel confident that it will be some other sap who gets to have their Starbucks coffee blown right through their brain matter - but some of the rest of us would like to attempt to decrease those odds.

Posted by 2b 2005-11-21 11:01|| 2005-11-21 11:01|| Front Page Top

#26 MunkarKat - well said.

Posted by 2b 2005-11-21 11:04|| 2005-11-21 11:04|| Front Page Top

#27 More on homeland defense activities under way:

DHS Using Northrop Grumman UAV In Arizona Border Patrol Flights since 11/04

DOD unveils homeland defense strategy

Defense Department Unveils Homeland Defense Strategy
To secure the United States from direct attack, the U.S. Defense Department has created the Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support based on an active, layered defense. Objectives of the 10-year plan include attaining maximum awareness of potential threats; deterring, intercepting and defeating threats at a safe distance from the United States; achieving mission assurance; and supporting civilian authorities to minimize damage and recover from attacks. Among the resources required to achieve these goals are intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities; information sharing; joint operational capabilities; and interagency and intergovernmental coordination. The strategy focuses on building transformational capabilities, enhancing maritime awareness and strengthening international cooperation.

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 11:09|| 2005-11-21 11:09|| Front Page Top

#28 You put your finger to your chin and state that we benefit from the workers. Brilliant! How do you do it?

They told me so in B-school and then when I ran a company I found out it was true! Fancy that.

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 11:15|| 2005-11-21 11:15|| Front Page Top

#29 lopt. I guess I owe you a bit of an apology. I focused on your highlight of the WSJ editorial and a few other comments and posted without reading all of your thoughts. Guess I jumped the gun a bit. "I'm Sorry".

Posted by 2b 2005-11-21 11:17|| 2005-11-21 11:17|| Front Page Top

#30 lotp. There is a 6000 mile border. If the Border Patrol were beefed up to 24,000 along the border and there were a fence, this would mean a Agent could patrol a quarter of a mile. Close communications with other agents would insure a quick response if needed. If the Border Patrol and the Federal Bureaucracy doesn't give one warm fuzzy feelings, then employ local citizens. Deputize and train them. Provide good communications. There are obviously many citizens willing to help out the Feds. The Feds seem to have the attitude that if it didn't come from us it can't be worth a damn.

There is always the .308 solution. Hit a few between their suspenders and they won't be so likely to want to come across illegally. Might solve a lot of drug problems in this country at the same time.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-21 11:19|| 2005-11-21 11:19|| Front Page Top

#31 I'd feel worse, but it doesn't looks like you did the same. hehheh.

Posted by 2b 2005-11-21 11:19|| 2005-11-21 11:19|| Front Page Top

#32 I generally agree with you, John Q., that there are a lot of citizens who want to help. It's gonna take some thought and training to keep that from becoming vigilante groups, tho.

Old Patriot has an idea about how to make that happen but I can't find it on his blogsite any more, for some reason. Basically, he wants to deploy a National Militia (as opposed to the state National Guard units).

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 11:24|| 2005-11-21 11:24|| Front Page Top

#33 I'm not certain what happened in Post #23. The Michael Savage link is: http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/ for any doubting Thomases. Paste it into your browser.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-21 11:27|| 2005-11-21 11:27|| Front Page Top

#34 Actually, 2b, I support the idea of a guest worker program. Partly on the basis of humane concerns you raised, but also because remittances from workers provide an important economic and indirectly political benefit to their home countries, where setting up competitive industries that might employ them at home isn't going to happen overnight.

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 11:28|| 2005-11-21 11:28|| Front Page Top

#35 Ooops. The link does not take you to the Michael Savage website. Just plug in Michael Savage in a Google search. That is clunky and I am sorry.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-21 11:29|| 2005-11-21 11:29|| Front Page Top

#36 Just as a side note, re:

Oh and that pesky matter that during the WOT it's downright dangerous. But, hehy, I guess it won't be YOU who gets blown up by a terrorist act. It will be "somebody else", right?

My daughter was a few blocks from the WTC on 9/11 and we had friends in the wing of the Pentagon that was hit that day. We also have friends who have / are serving in Iraq and the people in my office have been to more than one funeral in the last few years for old friends/colleagues who came home in caskets.

The threat of Islamacist attacks is quite real and tangible to me.

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 11:34|| 2005-11-21 11:34|| Front Page Top

#37 lopt - I apologize for the unjustified remarks. I agree with much of what you posted. Too often people change this subject to make this discussion about the benefit of Mexican workers. I zoned right in on that and went off. You have some great comments. I'll just slip out this back door....quietly.

Posted by 2b 2005-11-21 11:40|| 2005-11-21 11:40|| Front Page Top

#38 No problem, 2b.

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 11:43|| 2005-11-21 11:43|| Front Page Top

#39 Debate and discussion is good. At some point action should follow if there is a problem and it appears to be so. Good comments lotd and 2b.

Posted by John Q. Citizen 2005-11-21 11:43|| 2005-11-21 11:43|| Front Page Top

#40 :-)

Posted by 2b 2005-11-21 11:48|| 2005-11-21 11:48|| Front Page Top

#41 borders with Canada in the west are the simplest way in or out.
Just walk or drive across some farm road or open country.
Back pack in through Glacier and places like that.
Canoe across in boundary waters with plenty of Off spray.
Infinite ways.

Posted by 3dc 2005-11-21 11:49|| 2005-11-21 11:49|| Front Page Top

#42 One word: Screamers.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2005-11-21 14:55|| 2005-11-21 14:55|| Front Page Top

#43 Shit bit of a chance one or more of the Al Q goons is coming into the US through the Canadian backcountry.At least not one who isn't a white guy or invisible.

Shit ain't gonna happen without more than a few rednecks noticing it, because you may cross the border away from civilization, but you can't survive without finding a town somewhere up there for resupplying.

Unlike the Southern border where brown people are commonly seen swimming rivers and taking midnight strolls in the desert you'd be hard pressed to find brown skinned folks hanging out in Havre Montana or some town in North Dakota if they ain't Natives.

Hell, if you ain't from most of those towns, they'll notice you as out of place. No turnstyles for immigration up there like on the Southern border. If you don't belong, you will be removed, one way or another.

Maybe the idea of terrorists crossing the wild Canadian border seems realistic, but let me assure you, it ain't. Unless you are a local or a real hardcore woodsman, you will be hard pressed to make it out of the Bob Marshall or similar Wildderness alive.

Too many very experienced hunters die every year on routine hunting trips, with their GPS's, maps, and local knowledge for me to believe some ass munch 25 year old pakistani kid is going to make it out of that wilderness. It's just not realistic.

Without some sort of logistical base in one or more rural towns along the border you'd be hard pressed to survive if and when you ever made it into the US from Canada, at least in Montana or North Dakota.

Anyway, keep dreamin.

EP

Posted by ElvisHasLeftTheBuilding 2005-11-21 18:56|| 2005-11-21 18:56|| Front Page Top

#44 I hear ya, Elvis ... but then I look at a map and see Detroit and wonder about the potential for a support network based out of there.

Posted by lotp 2005-11-21 19:14|| 2005-11-21 19:14|| Front Page Top

#45 Elvis, I think there might be a few St. Pancake wannabe's at Evergreen College who might be willing to drive up next to the border and pick someone up on the side of the road.

And yes I do think its possible for someone like Cindy Shithan or someone at moveon.org to actively, and physically, assist a 'freedom fighter' across the border.

BTW: Very good comments! I think we could have a 'guest worker' program -- but only when the people go back home to their home countries and apply from there. And don't just have the 'Guest Workers' from mexico.

I know someone who has a business supplying workers for factores and the like in Taiwan. He brings the workers over from the Philippines, Vietnam and other countries to work in the Taiwanese factories. It works - the workers earn a lot of money which they can take or send home, the factories have workers, and he makes a decent profit as well. There is no reason such a business cannot supply 'Guest Workers' here.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-11-21 19:19|| 2005-11-21 19:19|| Front Page Top

#46 Lol. Let's put on our thinking caps, boys 'n girls. The Bad Guys don't just come charging across with some vague notion of creating havoc.

They have accomplices, safe houses, money, logistics. Somebody to pick them up. Someplace to stay. Someone with some time on the ground - legally - know knows the lay of the land, where to buy supplies, etc.

Good grief. Agreed, the alQ people aren't rocket scientists, but they're certainly smarter than many have given them credit for in this thread. Sometimes it does get silly.

Posted by Slomotch Ebbager8829 2005-11-21 20:21|| 2005-11-21 20:21|| Front Page Top

23:57 3dc
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