Article

2005-12-03 Europe

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Posted by Steve White 2005-12-03 00:55|| || Front Page|| [10 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Money is tight nowadays. They're not getting as much as expected from the EU budget, and will probably get less in the years to come.

Posted by Rafael 2005-12-03 15:30|| 2005-12-03 15:30|| Front Page Top

#2 There's a fair amount of opposition to involvement by the Polish people. The government would prefer to base a pullout on budgets than policies in order to keep Uncle as a friend given their undesirable location.

Posted by Unumble Omeaper7519 2005-12-03 15:45|| 2005-12-03 15:45|| Front Page Top

#3 The US has whole fleets of high dollar, but declining value, equipment in storage. I am in favor of transferring them to new NATO members. Need a few Abrams or Bradleys? How about a few squadrons of F-16C/D block 30s, F-18A/Bs, excess C-130s? Frigates and destroyers built in the 80s, comms gear when the army was 750,000. What say New Europe, want a Los Angeles class sub or an 80,000 ton carrier and become the bad ass on the block? OK, so that was overkill.

Posted by ed 2005-12-03 16:25|| 2005-12-03 16:25|| Front Page Top

#4 UO7519, the Polish people need to decide who are their friends and what is their level of involvement in the world. How many millions of citizens did Poland lose in 1939 because they had feckless allies? From this American's point of view, we will fight side with the full power of America for those who pull their weight. For those who stay on the sidelines, Americans will feel bad for them, but it is not our problem any more. For the back stabbers, fuck 'em. The free ride is over.

Posted by ed 2005-12-03 16:41|| 2005-12-03 16:41|| Front Page Top

#5 I don't know that giving them sophisticated equipment would help their OEM budget.

Posted by Super Hose 2005-12-03 18:19|| 2005-12-03 18:19|| Front Page Top

#6 Poland has been a great ally since their freedom, Ed...I don't expect a free ride or top quality equipment free is the bottom line of what they want. They would (I am assured by many in the supposed know) like the alliances, bases, etc. that others have recently spit on. I'd take anything not necessary from France, germany, especially Spain and possibly Italy (about that CIA thing....) and look at moving it to Poland, Romania, et al

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-12-03 18:35|| 2005-12-03 18:35|| Front Page Top

#7 I agree Poland has been a good ally since the fall of Communism. I think most Poles want to expand freedom and the US needs to do more to help them do it. Not just militarily, but also economic development. The US should make it policy to shift purchases from rivals to New Europe. Trade with friends, not enemies or wannabe rivals.

Poland's defense minister said that the Iraq deplyment is eating into their modernization budget. Well we have a lot of high quality equipment in storage. Let's find out their needs are and help them out. A few ships and planes will more than make up for their expenditures in Iraq. If that is not what the Poles want, then we should call their bluff. Honesty in relations is good.

My allies, onlookers and backstabbers comment was not specifically directed at the Poles, but to the world in general. No more supporting for 60 years a bunch of chauvanistic, backstabbing pissants. If US support is of value, then be of value to the US.

Posted by ed 2005-12-03 19:08|| 2005-12-03 19:08|| Front Page Top

#8 One issue is, in part, Poland's new membership in the EU. That complicates all sorts of negotiations. It also puts a strain on Polish forces, who have to patrol and manage the EU border with Ukraine ... a big foot/truck crossing frontier.

Yes, I'd like to see us cement strong relationships there.

Posted by lotp 2005-12-03 19:48|| 2005-12-03 19:48|| Front Page Top

#9 As nice as it is to hear such comments, there's a certain uneasiness that I feel about the Polish-American relationship. There's no guarantee that NATO will survive, and you don't have to look far to see that some Americans would prefer not to defend Poland in case of war (Z.F. and Pat Buchanan come to mind). A Russian friend of mine with respectable credentials is utterly convinced that Russia can start another Chechnya-like conflict with Poland, and none of Poland's allies would come to her defense. It seems I'm not the only doubting Thomas.

Keep in mind, war in Poland means war with Russia, most probably. Any threat to Poland will come from the east. I can trust Bush to keep his word. But would anyone else want a conflict with Russia? ...and China, by extension.

As much as I hate to say it, Poland's place is in Europe. The best course of action is probably to draw closer to the U.K., and remain an indirect ally of the US through the UK-US relationship.

On the other hand, maybe a huge amount of American investment (military bases) in Poland will make it harder not to defend that investment in case of a conflict.

Poles are in a difficult situation right now. They're starting to see that no one likes them, and are feeling vulnerable. This will probably draw them closer to the only military sure-bet that exists in the world right now, the U.S.

Furthermore, the EU experiment hasn't gone as planned. It was advertised as a panacea, but we're seeing problems right from the start. As I've correctly predicted (here on Rantburg, I can toot my own horn occasionally) there are problems with the EU budget, labor policies, to mention a few. In other words, Poland is not getting everything it expected from the EU. This will probably mean closer ties with the U.S., good or bad.

Posted by Rafael 2005-12-03 20:50|| 2005-12-03 20:50|| Front Page Top

23:19 Redneck Jim
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