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2006-01-10 Home Front: Culture Wars

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Posted by Brett 2006-01-10 00:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 If he does, I doubt that they include petunias. :P (Read: Lighten up.)

I knew I wasn't going to need a rifle for long-range, so a shotgun it was. I've been interested in the PDW concept, but I like your understanding of "shorter barrel -> more maneuverability." Here's hoping you carry it on an empty chamber, so that the infamous "pump cock" actually chambers a shell instead of ejecting the loaded one. LOL

Posted by Edward Yee 2006-01-10 00:11|| http://edwardyee.fanworks.net]">[http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2006-01-10 00:11|| Front Page Top

#2 I live in Detroit and I've been a believer is shotguns for years. I bought a Mossburg 500, because it is cheap, and that "CLA-CLUNK" is even louder. My Mossburg is black, with a fiber pistol grip and forearm, and an 18" barrel. Install the heat shield because it makes the gun look meaner.

The only time I shoot is once every summer to burn up the box of shells.

Posted by Formerly Dan 2006-01-10 01:14|| 2006-01-10 01:14|| Front Page Top

#3 Although the jacking of a shell can be intimidating, it also announces to the world your location, a bad call. The short barrel scatters the shot and aint worth a damn for anything other than close quarters fighting. Other than looking cool, and jungle fighting, I pass on shotguns, a good Gloc with an extended clip will outrange, carry more ammo, shoot through walls in a house, and generally out perform a shotgun any day. Shotguns are good for Geese, but for hunting humans I would rather a good Sig or Gloc. Aris might be bold on the net, but I figure he would concider it better to avoid in person than confront.

BTW Brett, I printed your rant from yesterday and posted it at work. It was great!

Posted by 49 Pan">49 Pan 2006-01-10 07:47|| 2006-01-10 07:47|| Front Page Top

#4 The short barrel scatters the shot and aint worth a damn for anything other than close quarters fighting.

Close quarters is pretty much the definition of home defense.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-01-10 08:48|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-01-10 08:48|| Front Page Top

#5 Come on guys, you should know to load defensive shotguns Bird-buck-ball for max effect.
Birdshot to deflect wannabes, buckshot for serious fighting, and pumpkin ball (Deer Slugs and Sabots included here) to blast the faraway and auto driving assaulters, goes through kevlar nicely too.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2006-01-10 08:50|| 2006-01-10 08:50|| Front Page Top

#6 Congradulations Brett,
A man's first shotgun is a special time in his life.
You were wise to go with a pump, you have to spend a lot of money to get a reliable autoloader and even then you don't get the shell capacity. The Winchester 1300 with the 18" bbl. is also a fine gun for the money. Now if you need to, you can easily blow a hole in someone big enough to throw a cat through. Happy Shooting.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2006-01-10 09:12|| 2006-01-10 09:12|| Front Page Top

#7 Real men Dont Need a Gun for Protection.

Posted by BirdDog 2006-01-10 09:43|| 2006-01-10 09:43|| Front Page Top

#8 Thanks to all of the commenters.
1. Edward, empty until a round is needed.
2. Dan, I agree.
3. Pan, I respectfully disagree which is why I bought a shotgun.
4. RC, my point exactly.
5. Jim, I thought about all of that, but decided on the simplicity of 00 buckshot.
6. Bigjim, spot on! My sentiments exactly.
7. Whatever, birddog.

Posted by Brett 2006-01-10 09:53|| 2006-01-10 09:53|| Front Page Top

#9 I wonder what kind of weapons Aris has?

Oy, the trollery.

I don't desire to own any weapons in my personal life, ever, nor do I expect to need to. This is no judgement on your own acquisition, since I understand that your needs may be different as you may be living in a much more dangerous area than I do. Wish you good use of your possession and may you never need to use it.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2006-01-10 10:05|| 2006-01-10 10:05|| Front Page Top

#10 An old miner's trick for short-range defense is to pour some paraffin wax over your shot. It makes the shot clump together, decreasing the dispersion and increasing the "tear" effect on the target.

If you really want to get ugly, though, use dimes. That's just plain nasty.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-01-10 10:16|| 2006-01-10 10:16|| Front Page Top

#11 So thats where the term "diming someone out" come from! HAHA

Posted by 49 Pan 2006-01-10 10:24|| 2006-01-10 10:24|| Front Page Top

#12 Trollery, Aris? All I did was ask a question and you answered.

Does the government even allow you to have a gun? Or even a knife?

Posted by Brett 2006-01-10 10:35|| 2006-01-10 10:35|| Front Page Top

#13 So Brett,

You're saying because of a lack of law enforcement during Katrina, you decided you need a more powerful weapon to protect yourself. So what youre saying is that you are more than willing to take the law into your own hands if need be.

Evidently something you saw during Katrina scared you from a lack of law enforcement viewpoint. So exactly WHO would be your targets? WHO would you be shooting at? WHO were the lawbreakers?

Posted by BirdDog 2006-01-10 10:54|| 2006-01-10 10:54|| Front Page Top

#14 MY situation, though likely worse in degree, is typical for the urban homeowner. I have large, protective, dogs,that ultimately will be defeated by a serious intruder. I figure if anyone gets past the dogs, they have proven that they didn't stumble in by accident. At that point, I think that I can shoot the intruder and not worry too much about legal issues. Even in Michigan.

In the event I ever need to use the shotgun on anybody, I expect that I will be upstairs, filling the stairwell with lead.

Posted by Formerly Dan 2006-01-10 11:04|| 2006-01-10 11:04|| Front Page Top

#15 do bullets (shot?) go bad?

Posted by 2b 2006-01-10 11:04|| 2006-01-10 11:04|| Front Page Top

#16 My interest in getting a shotgun lasted until I put a couple of rounds through my son's 870. Jeez. He's big and can handle it, but at my size and build it's a bit rough on the shoulder.

I'm looking for a good CC piece with some stopping power, though. Right now I'm thinking of the Kahr P45, but I'm open to suggestion.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 11:05|| 2006-01-10 11:05|| Front Page Top

#17 2b, I think keeping them away from humidity is the key; do that, and they should last years.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 11:08|| 2006-01-10 11:08|| Front Page Top

#18 thanks DD. They are really old. So maybe a trip to WalMart is in order.

Posted by 2b 2006-01-10 11:18|| 2006-01-10 11:18|| Front Page Top

#19 How do they look? Any signs of corrosion? If not, it might be worth test-firing a couple of rounds and see how they do. I'm no expert, but that'd be my inclination...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 11:22|| 2006-01-10 11:22|| Front Page Top

#20 That's why I shoot the box of shells every year. Shotgun shells are cheap.

Posted by Formerly Dan 2006-01-10 11:28|| 2006-01-10 11:28|| Front Page Top

#21 "I'm looking for a good CC piece with some stopping power, though. Right now I'm thinking of the Kahr P45, but I'm open to suggestion."

Dave...how much you looking to spend? What are you trying to do? How often will you carry it? I'm a city dweller, so CC means something different than it might in Arizona...

Maybe a custom 1911 officer's model? I prefer the gold cup national match Colt after some parts changes, but it is a bit big.

If you are after the ultimate in CC, I like the Walther TPH in .25 (or the Seacamp, but there is a waiting list), loaded with magsafe rounds. Even the Walther PPK from Germany is finished like jewelry, so it's nice to carry. Fits in the smallest of pockets, so you are more likely to have it on ya than a Colt or a Paraordinance, and the magsafe rounds make it "fairly effective." Won't stop someone on meth, but so what.... Remember: the weapon you have on ya when you need it is much better than the one on your nightstand, no matter the weapon. That being said, I'd go with something a bit bigger myself, like the 1911 officer's model, maybe from colt or springfield.

A few suggestions.... Interested in what you have looked at.

Posted by Mark E. 2006-01-10 11:35|| 2006-01-10 11:35|| Front Page Top

#22 I've never shot it - I bought it because I figured that I would never have to. Even Aris would recognize that sound.

Posted by 2b 2006-01-10 11:40|| 2006-01-10 11:40|| Front Page Top

#23 re: dimes...

check out the DVD of Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid when it comes out this Spring. Peckinpah knew about diming. Shot them in slow motion

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-01-10 11:44|| 2006-01-10 11:44|| Front Page Top

#24 Dave,

I have 3 home defense weapons. A glock 19 in 9mm, Browning BDM in 9mm and Sig Sauer .40 S&W. The Sig is my fav, big and heavy and nice for home defense. I have a lasermax laser in the Glock which may come in handy during times of stress when your vision goes a bit wacky. Caliber is not as important as shot placement. The bottom line is use what you are comfortable with and use good grade ammo like Federal Hydra-Shok in JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point) Also practice,practice ,practice at the range and dry fire

Check out www.glocktalk.com
and www.sigforum.com

both great sites with tons of info

Posted by Warthog 2006-01-10 11:56|| 2006-01-10 11:56|| Front Page Top

#25 An old miner's trick for short-range defense is to pour some paraffin wax over your shot. It makes the shot clump together, decreasing the dispersion and increasing the "tear" effect on the target.

MOOSEY, hate to disabuse you of a nice ole mining story..BUT TRUST ME not even hi-tec wax will stay solid even 6" along the bore/barrel.
Â»;-)

it would MELT

Posted by Red Dog 2006-01-10 12:03|| 2006-01-10 12:03|| Front Page Top

#26 CC has been around in KY for about 10 yrs now. PPK is a good model, but heavy for no bigger than it is, plus it's only a .380 cal. An officers model colt is heavy but has the power to put you in command of the situation, esp if you are shooting through car doors or drywall or other common self defense situations. It is also thinner and rides better in a pancake holster or shoulder holster.
Don't let people talk you into hi cap guns you arent going to be doing that much shooting (I hope) one or two shots, maybe just show it to most attackers and they split. Think about comfort, and what will happen if you do pull the trigger. Go small light and big cal is my advice. Also look at the new titanium revolvers in .41 mag or .357mag.
They are a lot lighter than they steel guns and they look like a million bucks.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2006-01-10 12:14|| 2006-01-10 12:14|| Front Page Top

#27 "Won't stop someone on meth, but so what...."

Heh. In this neighborhood it's most likely to be meth and PCP.

I'm set up OK for home defense, that's not a problem. But Boss Lady here at work got mugged a couple years back, and we now have a pistol range in the basement of our back building as she says she's damn well not going to go through THAT again.

Right now I'm not sure what I want. I think I'd like something small enough to be pocketable, with substantial stopping power, yet not so savage on the wrist when it goes off that it deters me from getting plenty of range time. I tried one of these things once... sheesh. A 12 oz. handgun in .357 Magnum is definitely NOT practice-friendly!

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 12:16|| 2006-01-10 12:16|| Front Page Top

#28 Then try a .45 officers model, you can shoot that all day without discomfort, and it would blow a big hole through someone no matter what he was smoking.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2006-01-10 12:21|| 2006-01-10 12:21|| Front Page Top

#29 I am using a Beretta 9 shot .25 for CC loaded alternately with magsafe and ball rounds. My alternate CC is a S&W kit gun in .22 magnum.

The house weapon is a Ruger .357 Security Six with magsafe rounds. This combo will probably stop a irate water buffalo, or a person the size of Shaq on PCP, with one shot.

Posted by usmc6743 2006-01-10 12:24|| 2006-01-10 12:24|| Front Page Top

#30 The PPk is thin, ya a bit heavey for the size and a smaller cal. With that said it fits close, fits smaller hands and works well when you empty a clip into something. One round, unless well place and even the best have a hard time in an emergency will probably not stop s crack head. Thats why the PPk has a clip. Just keep shooting til the threat goes away or goes down.

Lastly, no matter what you get, go to a class and get a carry permit. They will define the laws, ROE, and teash you some very basic firing techniques.

Posted by 49 Pan 2006-01-10 12:27|| 2006-01-10 12:27|| Front Page Top

#31 Dang... gotta bookmark this thread, lots of good ideas to check out!

I suspect what it's going to come down to is finding something in a substantial caliber that "feels right", fits comfortably in a pocket, and isn't so lively that I end up avoiding practicing with it on Sunday mornings when I go worship at the Church of the Sacred Backstop. It may take some doing to find the right balance of comfort, weight, and stopping power.

(Once I do, I'll definitely sign up for the courses.)

Thanks to all for the ideas!

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 12:43|| 2006-01-10 12:43|| Front Page Top

#32 Red Dog: give it a target fire. The clumping and reduced spread are noticeable.

N.B.: for a great target for any penetrating round, nothing impresses the heck out of other shooters like a plastic jerry can filled with cherry jello.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-01-10 13:14|| 2006-01-10 13:14|| Front Page Top

#33 Good on ya Brett! A man can never get too many knives, guns, or *****.

Posted by Besoeker 2006-01-10 13:17|| 2006-01-10 13:17|| Front Page Top

#34 Best CC gun in our house: Smith & Wesson 640 (.357MAG).

My regular gun: Sig P229 (9mm but I'm thinking of adding one in .40S&W as I like the feel and the frame of this model). Significant other's regular guns: in addition to the S&W, a Baretta 92 (9 mm) and a competition .45 revolver.

All of these except the .45 (under normal conditions) serve as house guns.

Posted by lotp 2006-01-10 13:45|| 2006-01-10 13:45|| Front Page Top

#35 I'll have to give the S&W 640 a looksee.

I used to have one of those Beretta 92FS's but gave it to my son; the grip always just felt "wrong" to me and I never enjoyed working out with it. He loves the darn thing (it's what he carried in Iraq) but I miss it about as much as I miss my ex-wife.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 13:56|| 2006-01-10 13:56|| Front Page Top

#36 For home defense, I typically stick with my H&K USP .45. It's big, it's heavy, and it's got 10 rounds. Since I don't live in apartment or with neighbors too close, I keep it loaded with 230g Remington Golden Saber rounds. It's very reliable and the mass helps with quick recovery. I practice often enough that I can hit out to 25 yards, either hand, one handed or two.

For long range, I have a choice to use my M-1 Garand or my match grade AR-15. Flamethrowers are legal in Tennessee, but I still can't find one to buy though.

Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick 2006-01-10 13:58|| 2006-01-10 13:58|| Front Page Top

#37 Republican Guns
Saturday, May 10, 2003

SS: I did everything I could to keep my boys from learning about guns. I played them Baby Mozart tapes (PIANO) and I encouraged them with fingerpainting (SQUISHES) and I read them gentle books ----- Goodnight moon, goodnight old lady whispering hush (CHILD SNORING) ---- and I took them to museums (FOOTSTEPS. TR, MUFFLED, SLIGHTLY DISTORTED, ON BAD SLIDE-PROJECTION SYSTEM AUDIO: Italy was very important in the Renaissance, especially Florence and Venice, with the work of Michelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci) and I sent them to take ballet (PIANO) and always I taught them to work out the differences through negotiation, but somehow they still got the idea of firearms (KID MAKING PISTOL SOUNDS. TR KID: You're dead. I got you.) and I'd come home and find my children tearing around the house like crazy people (KID SHOOTING) aiming pistols at each other. I brought my kids up to be Democrats and they turned into Republicans.

TR (BUSH): And that's because kids basically are Republicans. When they go off to college they maybe get messed up with a lot of book nonsense that turns them into Democrats, but when you're eleven years old, you are a Republican. Make no mistake about it. And there's nothing wrong with guns. Guns don't kill people: ammunition does.

GK: Your child's natural urge toward Republicanism should not be frustrated. Learn to accept it. It's simply the way things are.

TR (KID): We're never going to get the economy moving until we eliminate the tax on stock dividends, Mom.
GK: And maybe your child's turn toward the right reflects something you've considered too.

SS: But I'm a lifelong Democrat. I took part in the civil rights struggle, women's lib, the environmental movement ---- and yet----

GK: Admit it.

SS: I love driving a truck. I love it. I don't care if it gets 5 miles to the gallon. And if they ever try to take it away from me, they're going to have to take away my pistol too. (SHOTS)

TR: Deep down, don't you wish you were a Republican?

GK: We're all Republicans now,
We've all come around somehow
If you're unemployed
Don't be annoyed,
We're all Republicans now.
Our foreign policy's free.
We're working pre-emptively.
We need a tax-break to help out the Dow,
Forget about deficits they don't matter nohow.
When the sign lights up that says Applause,
Clap your hands and smile because
We're all Republicans
We're all Republicans
We're all Republicans now

Â© Garrison Keillor 2003

Posted by BirdDog 2006-01-10 13:59|| 2006-01-10 13:59|| Front Page Top

#38 Brett--I strenuously recommend against modifying your ammo using wax, as someone mentioned, or the weapon itself to make it seemingly more lethal. It will potentially appear after the fact to a judge or jury that you were just itching for an excuse to use deadly force if you do so. God forbid you ever find yourself in such a situation, but if so you want to demonstrate you used deadly force as a last resort.

That's another reason a pump-action shotgun is a good idea for home defense. By cycling the action you can demonstrate you gave the intruder(s) extra incentive to leave before resorting to force.

BirdDog--I hope you never experience a mugging, armed robbery, or home invasion, or get caught in the lawless aftermath of a hurricane, major earthquake, tsunami, race riot a la the Rodney King trial aftermath, or other calamity. It'd just break my heart to see you have to swallow your pride and ask your better-prepared and more reality-minded neighbors for assistance after you mocked them here.

Posted by Dar">Dar 2006-01-10 14:18|| 2006-01-10 14:18|| Front Page Top

#39 All I did was ask a question and you answered.

Yes, of course you did. Aren't you too old for such games, Brett?

Does the government even allow you to have a gun? Or even a knife?

And ofcourse that one isn't trollery either, it's again a "mere question". Yes, I'm moderately sure that my government hasn't abolished knives, I have several of them in my kitchen and I don't think I'm breaking the law.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2006-01-10 14:18|| 2006-01-10 14:18|| Front Page Top

#40 Can civilians own guns, Aris?

Posted by Darrell 2006-01-10 14:21|| 2006-01-10 14:21|| Front Page Top

#41 Dar, I have no intention of modifying ammo. I don't expect to ever use it, but want to be ready should I need it. Also, I live in Texas, so I'd probably be elected should I have to use my 870.

And to my new best Buddy Aris: asking a question isn't trolling. It is simply a question. Even Darrell noticed you avoided answering my question about owning a gun in Greece. It is my understanding that Europe, in general, doesn't allow law-abiding citizens to own guns.

Here in the USA, the citizenry is protected from the government taking our guns by our Constitution. And we guard that right strongly.

Posted by Brett 2006-01-10 14:44|| 2006-01-10 14:44|| Front Page Top

#42 Brett> And to my new best Buddy Aris: asking a question isn't trolling. It is simply a question.

Yes, kindergarten logic, like the kid flapping his hands in front of the adult and then going "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you". Your latest question about allowing knives was *sheer* trollery, and your first question "I wonder what kind of weapons Aris has" was again obvious trollery and you know it: You weren't wondering what kinds of weapons I have, you were wondering about whether I had (or was allowed) any weapons and you VERY WELL KNOW IT.

Even Darrell noticed you avoided answering my question about owning a gun in Greece.

My non-answer about the gun question was just punitive action against the trollery of your knife question. If you want my responses, start trolling less. Darrell's question I will respond to, however.

It is my understanding that Europe, in general, doesn't allow law-abiding citizens to own guns.

Really? Where have you ever heard that?

Darrell> "Can civilians own guns, Aris?"

Yes.

Certainly gun-ownership isn't part of the dominant culture here (and by that I mean Athenian culture specifically) but I do very well know that gun permits exist. I don't know the specifics of obtaining one, but they exist.

And certainly guns are a huge part of Crete's culture, possibly to an even greater extent than Texan culture. Crete's the kinda place where you hear a barrage gunshots fired at the sky in weddings.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2006-01-10 15:01|| 2006-01-10 15:01|| Front Page Top

#43 25 Rules of Survival... I live by them...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1- Bring a gun. Better to bring two guns, and all of your friends that have guns.

2- If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and some friends with long guns.

3- Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun that has a caliber number starting with less than "4".

4- Utilize a gun that works "EVERY TIME".

5- Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice... or three times.

6- Only hits count. The only thing worse than a "miss" is a "slow miss".

7- If your shooting stance is good, then you're not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

8- Move away from your attacker. Distance is your ally. Lateral and Diagonal movement is preferred.

9- 10 years from now, noone will remember the details of weapon, caliber, stance, or tactics. They'll only remember who lived and who didn't.

10- If you aren't shooting, you should be reloading, communicating, and running.

11- Accuracy is relative. Most combat shooting standards will be more dependant on the "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

12- Someday, someone may kill you with your own gun. If you acted correctly, he'll have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

13- Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

14- Have a plan. Have a backup plan because the first one WILL NOT work.

15- Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

16- Flank your adversary when possible. Protect YOUR flank.

17- Don't drop your guard... especially after you've just "won".

18- Always tactically reload and threat scan 360 degrees.

19- ALWAYS watch their hands. Hands kill.

20- Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

21- The faster you finish the fight, the less you will get shot.

22- Be polite. Be professional. Have a plan to shoot EVERYONE you meet or who is within range.

23- Be courteous to everyone; friendly to noone.

24- You're number one plan should be a lifelong committment to avoidance, deterrence, combat, breaking contact, and de-escalation.

25- Lady Luck is fickle. She changes her mind at will. Never rely on her.

Posted by Formerly Dan 2006-01-10 15:06|| 2006-01-10 15:06|| Front Page Top

#44 Brett, stop poking at Aris.

Aris, develop a thicker skin, okay?

Posted by Mom 2006-01-10 15:11|| 2006-01-10 15:11|| Front Page Top

#45 REAL MEN DONT NEED GUNS!!!

Posted by BirdDog 2006-01-10 15:23|| 2006-01-10 15:23|| Front Page Top

#46 Knock it off Bird Dog = Left Angle = etc.

Posted by Mom 2006-01-10 15:30|| 2006-01-10 15:30|| Front Page Top

#47 BD, you don't have to shout. We heard you the first time.

Yes, real men don't need guns. If none is available, a club will have to do.

Posted by Fred 2006-01-10 15:55|| 2006-01-10 15:55|| Front Page Top

#48 Formerly Dan--I've got some problems with those rules when it comes to home defense, particularly #5. The more ammo you expend, the more ammo you give the prosecutor in persuading the jury you used excessive force.

If you expect to keep hold of the independent and free lifestyle you are currently living, you will shoot to stop, not shoot to kill.

Posted by Dar">Dar 2006-01-10 16:00|| 2006-01-10 16:00|| Front Page Top

#49 Brett and Aris, it takes two to hijack a thread. As a mod, I won't spend time trying to figure out which one of you is more responsible. Fred just gave us mods a new ~~gun~~ tool to handle trolling, and I'll probably just be even-handed.

So both of you: listen to Mom. That's always good advice.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2006-01-10 16:09|| 2006-01-10 16:09|| Front Page Top

#50 MOM:

I resemble...ah, ah resent that remark. lol

Posted by BirdDog 2006-01-10 16:27|| 2006-01-10 16:27|| Front Page Top

#51 It is my understanding that Europe, in general, doesn't allow law-abiding citizens to own guns.

Yeah, and? It is my understanding that whenever the shit hits the fan in Europe, the guns seem to come out of the woodwork. They're there, even if you don't see them. Permits are also not impossible to obtain.

it takes two to hijack a thread

No one has hijacked anything yet. You can be more even-handed (you should, actually), but don't be too heavy-handed! :-)

Posted by Rafael 2006-01-10 16:45|| 2006-01-10 16:45|| Front Page Top

#52 long ago my dad gave me a 357 magnum. Nice little guy fitting snug in the palm of you hand. While driving to work rurally, some guys popped up a red light from their dash, immitating a cop and pulled me over. I quickly realized that it wasn't a cop and got out of there. So my dad insisted that I carry one with me for protection.
I haven't shot it in some time, I think I'll go to the shooting range this next week. Maybe try out a few others as well. Thanks for the ideas via this thread. ;)

Posted by Jan 2006-01-10 16:50|| 2006-01-10 16:50|| Front Page Top

#53 Jan--If you have a smaller .357 (like the Ruger SP101, which I own), you may want to look at 125gr ammo for it. It has less of a kick and makes the smaller framed .357's easier to control and less painful to shoot.

Also, please get your CCL if you don't already have one and your state permits it. Better to be safe (and legal) than sorry! I recommend www.packing.org for further info.

Posted by Dar">Dar 2006-01-10 16:56|| 2006-01-10 16:56|| Front Page Top

#54 Steve White, how can I 'hijack' a thread I started? And, my comments have all been on the topic.

Awww, Mom. I didn't poke him, nor did I flame him or screech at the little guy. I just wanted his feedback. And I got it. :-)

Posted by Brett 2006-01-10 17:01|| 2006-01-10 17:01|| Front Page Top

#55 I think a double action revolver is the way to go. The original point and click interface. The technology is almost flawless and there is no safety to fool with. I bought my wife a Lady Smith .357 Stainless, small enough for her hand size but plenty of stopping power. And its pretty. She used my Makarof to disuade two dudes from stealing the truck she was sitting in one sunny Sunday morning in the Home Depot parking lot. She pointed it at them, they fled. She could not have pulled the trigger because she did not know about the safety.

My 2 cents

Posted by BrerRabbit 2006-01-10 17:32|| 2006-01-10 17:32|| Front Page Top

#56 Jan,

If you have one of those smaller .357's (I have a Ruger SP 101 snubby), it would be worth your while to buy a box of .38 Special and try them out. They'll work just fine in a .357 and the recoil lessens considerably. The .38 Special is a pretty good cartridge, too.

Plus, if you live someplace where there is some firearms use training to be had (close to Lethal Force Institute in NH, Thunder Ranch in Oregon, or Blackwater in NC; there are also others), your money would be well spent in taking a class in defensive handgun use. Clint Smith of TR was fond of saying that "In an emergency, people don't rise to the occasion; they default to the level of their prior training." I've found there's a lot of truth in that statement. You don't ever want to have to use a gun against another person but if you come to that point, you want to be well trained enough to win. Good luck!

Posted by mac 2006-01-10 17:36|| 2006-01-10 17:36|| Front Page Top

#57 FWIW - a "permit" required to own a gun may never be granted to Joe six-pack. IIUC NY City (and now San Francisco?) requires permits for handguns at least...if you aren't a celeb or engaged in diamond delivery, et al, you won't get one. I personally have a Winchester Defender 12 GA 18" barrel/pistol grip/sling carry. It would be useful and easy to load in case of intrusion. Your mileage may vary, but that's a good criteria...otherwise you'll probably end up with the weapon used against you.

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-01-10 17:49|| 2006-01-10 17:49|| Front Page Top

#58 The .38 Special is also a lot easier on the pocketbook than the .357 Magnum-- where I shop & shoot, about $9 for a box of 50 instead of $15. It makes a good "target range" round for the .357 Magnum; easier on the ears, and a LOT easier on the wrists.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 17:50|| 2006-01-10 17:50|| Front Page Top

#59 even better than my .44 mags - $25 for jacketed hollow points = $.50 shot...

I love shooting it, but, damn! Started buying reloads from a buddy and collecting ALL my brass

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-01-10 18:19|| 2006-01-10 18:19|| Front Page Top

#60 These rules were sent to me by a buddy who is a cop.

If you are carrying a concealed pistol everyday a revolver is kinda bulky.

Posted by Formerly Dan 2006-01-10 18:23|| 2006-01-10 18:23|| Front Page Top

#61 Remember - use #8 birdshot if you are doing home defense. Its effective to about 6 meters in terms of deadly force, and will not overpenetrate drywall and put your loved noes at risk.

I load mine 2 bird, then buck, then a deer slug. then alternating buck and deer slug. And I fire off the box of shells and get new ones every summer - its a Remmy 870 pump, very effective with the short barrel. Its all you need for defending hearth and home, an 870 with those loads, my trusty Glock 23 (.40 S&W w/high velocity Hyrdashoks), and God forbid I shoudl need it, a KBar.

All it takes is one burglary to get you to arm up. I had one of those a long time ago when my son was an infant. Never again. And the one time it has happened since, racking the 870 and yelling "get the f*** out of my house, I will KILL you" was enough to convince whoever it was they were in the wrong home. Cut themselves up pretty good on the window they went out of. Cops got a good laugh out of that one and the blood trail he left to the street (wife called 911 as went into defense-of-family mode).

Posted by Old 2006-01-10 19:02|| 2006-01-10 19:02|| Front Page Top

#62 Significant other says I forgot to mention one of his favorites, which also sometimes serves as a house gun: his Ruger MP 161 (.357 MAG).

He also says I'd better have a damn good reason for hauling out his Kimber target match .45 ACP unless I either plan to get up to competition skill or really need to stop some SOB cold in his tracks.

In which case using it is quite fine by him .....

One useful thing about a shotgun for home defense is that it gives less-than-lethal options for stopping an intruder attack.

Posted by lotp 2006-01-10 19:59|| 2006-01-10 19:59|| Front Page Top

#63 I can't find the MP-161 on Ruger's website or by Googling; what is it? Revolver? Double-action? I assume from the model # the barrel is 6"?

Do tell...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 20:13|| 2006-01-10 20:13|| Front Page Top

#64 Price of ammo for practice is one reason I like the 9mm - I don't get to the range as much as I'd like lately, but when I go I can shoot enough rounds to maintain reasonable proficiency with my personal handgun. I figure I'm better off being capable with a 9mm than ill-practiced with a bigger caliber.

I do like that Sig in the .40 S&W tho ....

Posted by lotp 2006-01-10 20:15|| 2006-01-10 20:15|| Front Page Top

#65 Keep a 9mm Browning High Power by the bed, and a Gov't Colt 45 downstairs. Hope I never have to use either of em.

Posted by Besoeker 2006-01-10 20:22|| 2006-01-10 20:22|| Front Page Top

#66 Dave, that's cause I mistyped. It's the GP-100, specifically the 161 member of that family: 6" barrel, double action revolver, adjustable rear sights. Second item on this page.

Hope I never have to use either of em.

Agree, Besoeker.

Posted by lotp 2006-01-10 20:23|| 2006-01-10 20:23|| Front Page Top

#67 Ah, OK; the KGP-161 is what I got my son for Christmas; sounds like we're talking the same model except for blued vs. stainless steel.

Nice gun. Needs trigger work though, because it gives PLENTY of warning thru the trigger before it goes off; when I used it, I started flinching like crazy-- something I never have a problem with, with the S&W 686. Trigger on that thing's as smooth as a baby's ass; no warning of when it's going to go off, ergo no flinching.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-01-10 20:39|| 2006-01-10 20:39|| Front Page Top

#68 Dar:

Gotta disagree with you. If you do shoot, shoot to kill. Period. Never draw your weapon unless you are prepared to kill.

Posted by Iblis">Iblis 2006-01-10 21:08|| 2006-01-10 21:08|| Front Page Top

#69 A lot of the big pistols y'all like really overpenetrate. I'll keep my cheap 12 guage, because I don't have to worry about shooting through my wall and killing my neighbor in his bed.

Posted by Formerly Dan 2006-01-10 21:19|| 2006-01-10 21:19|| Front Page Top

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