Article

2006-06-22 Terror Networks

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Posted by Steve 2006-06-22 08:47|| || Front Page|| [11142 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Which pegs my BS meter. The jihadis want to kill infidels, not just knock out our electrical grid.

His statement might be BS, but knocking out the electrical grid would kill quite a large number of people.

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2006-06-22 09:12|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-06-22 09:12|| Front Page Top

#2 Which pegs my BS meter. The jihadis want to kill infidels, not just knock out our electrical grid.

I dunno, I think they would be quite ok with knocking down the US/world economy for example, anything to destabilize what they perceive as the West's supremacy, to make room for The Master Religion's... see for example the rather successful tries to creep Sharia(Tm) into international & national law, with the danish cartoons or with the tranzis help. This is a multi-spronged assault, the "military" terror one being just a very marginal one, IMHO.

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-06-22 09:25|| 2006-06-22 09:25|| Front Page Top

#3 Oh, man. Not THIS story again. I wish I had a dollar for everytime this was debunked. ed. - You would still be broke.

Posted by DarthVader 2006-06-22 09:32|| 2006-06-22 09:32|| Front Page Top

#4 Speaking through my hat, this sounds like the kind of thing that would require a serious industrial base to produce. I'm under the impression that it would take a large nuclear bomb exploded high in the atmosphere to produce an energy pulse strong enough to be so debilitating -- much larger than a mere dirty bomb-- not to mention the rocketry necessary to get the thing high enough in the air to be useful. Not at all like a noble Lion of Islam sneaking into a town center to secrete a dirty bomb for future explosion.

Any thoughts from someone who actually knows something about the subject?

Posted by trailing wife 2006-06-22 09:35|| 2006-06-22 09:35|| Front Page Top

#5 "he overheard the reference to the e-bomb in several conversations among Arab fighters in Afghanistan"
My civilization developed light bulbs and flush toilets first. Theirs is going from the mud hut and donkey straight to the e-bomb. Saves a lot of wiring and plumbing.

"I never heard anything which was discussed with any depth concerning gas attacks on America"
Yeah, it's a big country. Better use e-bombs instead.

"seriously pursuing a project aimed at bringing America back to the Stone Age without harming human lives"
That would be Project "Spreading Islam", somehow without the sword. Don't bet on it.

"and a project to destroy US satellites"
Does he consider Afghanistan a US satellite?

"An e-bomb destroys most machines that use electricity."
Start exchanging your flashlights for candles today -- these guys are serious!

"could thrust an entire city back 200 years"
Ah yes, 1806: Thomas Jefferson was still president and Lewis & Clark came home. These guys could use a Thomas Jefferson -- collectively they don't have that much brain between them.

"could thrust an entire city back 200 years"
Um, Syed, plagirism of works copyrighted by HowStuffWorks is illegal. Nice to know your sources though.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/e-bomb.htm

"Reports say that the United States has been developing such a bomb"
US design of flux compression generator bombs dates back to the 1950s, Syed. Good to see you actually got past the first page on e-bombs at HowStuffWorks. Islamic in-depth reporting. Marvelous.

Posted by Darrell 2006-06-22 09:41|| 2006-06-22 09:41|| Front Page Top

#6 Oh, man. Not THIS story again. I wish I had a dollar for everytime this was debunked. ed. - You would still be broke

Oh, I know it's a penny here and a penny there, but look at me. I worked myself up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty. - Groucho Marx

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-06-22 09:46|| 2006-06-22 09:46|| Front Page Top

#7 TW

It would probably take more than one. A saturation attack with 25 or more could probably do it. I think it unlikely that terrorists could muster that many though China or the Russians would be able to.

"An e-bomb destroys most machines that use electricity. The weapon is designed to overwhelm electrical circuitry with an intense electromagnetic field."

Not true. It destroys circuitry, specifically transistors that are not in hardened enclosures. It would probably be a good idea down the road if all vital equipment were 'hardened' or had 'hardened' backups for quick replacement.

Posted by DanNY 2006-06-22 09:58|| 2006-06-22 09:58|| Front Page Top

#8 To me, there is a moral to this story. Our high tech advantage works very well, but there is always a double edge sword, and the enemy adapts. We should always have layers of technologies.

Posted by Jesing Ebbease3087 2006-06-22 10:04|| 2006-06-22 10:04|| Front Page Top

#9 This could be true. After all, I saw it work against the bug-machines in "The Matrix."

Posted by growler 2006-06-22 10:20|| 2006-06-22 10:20|| Front Page Top

#10 This story is bull. If the bad guys had a device capable of generating an EMP they'd blow it up and the EMP would be the least of our worries.

Military servers are hardened from EMP. Only electronics *on* at the time of the blast would be effected. The EMP would be deadened by larger buildings and Earth curvature so the range of effected electronics would be minor unless it was an airburst.

So your only real target is Manhattan at rushour so you can clog the streets or the bridges. Somehow I think the big apple would get by and manage to get more fuses. I can only hope this is the terrorists next plan.

Posted by rjschwarz 2006-06-22 10:22|| 2006-06-22 10:22|| Front Page Top

#11 True, but electricity could be the only thing that we totally rely on in a decisive battle. China could exploit it. Once the military is on the routed, safe old men in the protected bunkers won't win the war.

Posted by Jesing Ebbease3087 2006-06-22 10:49|| 2006-06-22 10:49|| Front Page Top

#12 ...Holy f*cking sh*t, that's hysterical. Reality Check - there are such beasties as conventional EMP weapons, whether or not we have them is a bit up in the air. They have what can be charitably described as VERY localized effects - quite probably line of sight and maybe a couple hundred yards. The only way you're going to get the results this idiot is ~~jerking off over~~ talking about is to use nukes. Al-Q ain't got any. End of story.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2006-06-22 11:57|| 2006-06-22 11:57|| Front Page Top

#13 Assuming this assinine thing even works the US still has it's nukes/subs/etc and when faced with a disaster/starvation/Lord of the Flies situation can just say to the world "Give us food/equipment/ponies or everybody dies with us."

Posted by Laurence of the Rats">Laurence of the Rats 2006-06-22 12:12|| 2006-06-22 12:12|| Front Page Top

#14 I remember reading how this was the Russian big secret weapon back in the '70s. As I remember, you'd need a nuke, since the paln was to detonate one in the upper atmosphere to create the pulse.

Posted by tu3031 2006-06-22 12:27|| 2006-06-22 12:27|| Front Page Top

#15 E-Bomb Is 'New Threat' To U.S

I'm waiting for the minaturised nano attack wid off the shelf thingys.

Posted by RD 2006-06-22 12:28|| 2006-06-22 12:28|| Front Page Top

#16 China using an EMP is a different story. IT would work as a first strike sort of thing (put a nuke in the Chinese spaceship they're launching a year or two from now and blast it over the US then take Taiwan and deny everything).

But not as an only strike sort of thing.

I think the threat from terrorists using one is minimal to nil.

Posted by rjschwarz 2006-06-22 14:42|| 2006-06-22 14:42|| Front Page Top

#17 Yeah, it's a waste of a nuke. It's been gamed.

Posted by 6 2006-06-22 14:43|| 2006-06-22 14:43|| Front Page Top

#18 the Ebomb: developed by Nigerians to scam stupid net users

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-06-22 15:21|| 2006-06-22 15:21|| Front Page Top

#19 How are you going to create an EMP that is strong enough to blanket a continent? Only a very large nuke at extreme altitudes could even be considered as a possibility. We are talking 20-30 megatons at 100,000 feet, and even then the shadow effects of high buildings and mountain ranges would create blank spots that were unaffected. And believe me, you set a 20 megaton warhead off over the US, you will get back ten times if not 100 times your little "gift". This is all based on a test in the 1960s over an island in the Pacific, near Hawaii. But, the military has been hardening electronics since then, and even the Federation of American Scientists is not that impressed {http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm}. It is a typical urban legend that has a partial basis in fact, and then is spun out of all recognition by Luddittes and snake oil salesmen. Remember Y2K and the end of technological civilization?

Posted by Shieldwolf 2006-06-22 17:31|| 2006-06-22 17:31|| Front Page Top

#20 AP, shed some light here, please. EMP devices would have to follow the inverse-square law, so the impact would vary with both distance and resistance. How effective is grounding on reducing the impact of an EMP strike? I know the local power company did some major rewiring about ten years ago to reduce the damage caused by lightning strikes (quite frequent here), but I don't know if that would work with EMP or not. Comments?

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2006-06-22 20:13|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2006-06-22 20:13|| Front Page Top

#21 I have heard from reliable sources that we have the P-Bomb, that is the Pork Bomb.

Posted by JohnQC 2006-06-22 20:52|| 2006-06-22 20:52|| Front Page Top

#22 Speaking through my hat, this sounds like the kind of thing that would require a serious industrial base to produce. I'm under the impression that it would take a large nuclear bomb exploded high in the atmosphere to produce an energy pulse strong enough to be so debilitating

Not at all, tw. As you can see from the information below, there is a new class of munitions specifically designed to produce high-intensity EMP without utilizing nuclear technology. My older brother described to me how to build a "magnetic bomb" in the mid 1960s.

This topic was also covered by Popular Mechanics back in 2001. Fortunately, building and then lofting a multi-ton device of this sort required to "kill" a large metropolis will still tend to draw attention.

The simple solution is to guarantee nuclear response for anyone attempting to use such a destructive weapon against us.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1281421.html

"Any nation with even a 1940s technology base could make them," says Carlo Kopp, an Australian-based expert on high-tech warfare. "The threat of E-bomb proliferation is very real." POPULAR MECHANICS estimates a basic weapon could be built for $400 ...

An FCG (Flux Compression Generator) is an astoundingly simple weapon. It consists of an explosives-packed tube placed inside a slightly larger copper coil, as shown below [see page 2 of the linked article]. The instant before the chemical explosive is detonated, the coil is energized by a bank of capacitors, creating a magnetic field. The explosive charge detonates from the rear forward. As the tube flares outward it touches the edge of the coil, thereby creating a moving short circuit. "The propagating short has the effect of compressing the magnetic field while reducing the inductance of the stator [coil]," says Kopp. "The result is that FCGs will produce a ramping current pulse, which breaks before the final disintegration of the device. Published results suggest ramp times of tens of hundreds of microseconds and peak currents of tens of millions of amps." The pulse that emerges makes a lightning bolt seem like a flashbulb by comparison.

More from Global Security.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/hpm.htm

The US Navy reportedly used a new class of highly secret, non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse warheads during the opening hours of the Persian Gulf War to disrupt and destroy Iraqi electronics systems. The warheads converted the energy of a conventional explosion into a pulse of radio energy. The effect of the microwave attacks on Iraqi air defense and headquarters was difficult to determine because the effects of the HPM blasts were obscured by continuous jamming, the use of stealthy F-117 aircraft, and the destruction of Iraq's electrical grid. The warheads used during the Gulf War were experimental warheads, not standard weapons deployed with fielded forces
As with a conventional munition, a microwave munition is a "single shot" munition that has a similar blast and fragmentation radius. However, while the explosion produces a blast, the primary mission is to generate the energy that powers the microwave device. Thus, for a microwave munition, the primary kill mechanism is the microwave energy, which greatly increases the radius and the footprint by, in some cases, several orders of magnitude. For example, a 2000-pound microwave munition will have a minimum radius of approximately 200 meters, or footprint of approximately 126,000 square meters.

Studies have examined the incorporation of a high power microwave weapon into the weapons bay of a conceptual uninhabited combat aerial vehicle. The CONOPS, electromagnetic compatibility and hardening (to avoid a self-kill), power requirements and potential power supplies, and antenna characteristics have been analyzed. Extensive simulations of potential antennas have been performed. The simulations examined the influence of the aircraft structure on the antenna patterns and the levels of leakage through apertures in the weapons bay. Other investigations examined issues concerning the electromagnetic shielding effectiveness of composite aircraft structures.

Posted by Zenster 2006-06-22 21:28|| 2006-06-22 21:28|| Front Page Top

#23 Thank you, Rantburg Professor Zenster. I do feel better that the e-bomb needn't involve nukes, and would not be the kind of unobtrusive device favoured thus far by the terrorists for their sneak attacks.

It was a particularly large and effective hat, though. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2006-06-22 22:39|| 2006-06-22 22:39|| Front Page Top

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