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2006-06-28 Home Front: Politix
Senate Rejects Flag Desecration Amendment
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Posted by Fred 2006-06-28 00:00|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 doent like ta see it. but ifn ya start jaylin em peples hoo burn em flag, ima doent see ya az anee bettern em yahoos hoo wanna kill peples for makerin kartoons of mo man.
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 00:31|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 00:31|| Front Page Top

#2 let freedum reeng! free speech beeyotch!
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 00:32|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 00:32|| Front Page Top

#3 It's disturbing that our freedom of speech has won by such a narrow margin
Posted by bk 2006-06-28 01:04||   2006-06-28 01:04|| Front Page Top

#4 Yeah, nothing special about the flag.

"I Pledge allegiance to the Flag
And to the Republic for which it stands..."

"O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"

"Our flags unfurl'd to every breeze From dawn to setting sun';
We have fought in every clime and place Where we could take a gun.
In the snow of far-off northern lands And in sunny tropic scenes,
You will find us always on the job - The United States Marines."

Thousands of flag-bearers have died in battle - and as each one fell, another picked it up and carried forth. Idiots.

We could replace it on the uniforms of the US Military with "Free Speech Beeyotch!" insignia. Do 'em Peter Max style.

Nope. No big deal. Don't mean nothing. The flag's not special.

Same as fucking cartoons.
Posted by Shailing Jeper3536 2006-06-28 01:07||   2006-06-28 01:07|| Front Page Top

#5 it aynt em flag itself. its watn it stanz fore. get it? wunse ya start jaylen peples for dissen it, ya just bloo its whole poynt.
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 01:11|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 01:11|| Front Page Top

#6 Oh, I get it, alright. It does stand for something, something very special, something unique on the planet. Protecting it does not blow the whole point, it makes the point that it is important and deserving of respect and protection. I know people who died to defend it.

Raising the Flag on Mt Suribachi wasn't a joke or stunt, it was symbolic of the entire Pacific Campaign, of the entire reason behind WW-II. It raised the spirits of every fighting man on the island and on the ships off the coast. It meant something. Something very special.

Yeah, I get it.

One of the things I've noticed about people today is that, along with loyalty, honor, and real patriotism, they have decided that such things as honoring the flag is corny, uncool, unclever. Fine.

The Republic has been around a little over 200 years. You and yours are the first to believe that the flag doesn't mean anything special. The change that allowed flag desecration happened in the mid-80's by one vote in the USSC. Think of it, how special you are. All those who went before, all those Americans, from Washington to Lincoln to TDR to MacArthur to Chesty - they were fools. You're the smart one, alright, you've figured out what no one for the first 180+ years could fathom. Brilliant. Yep. you're what's special.

You're a New Age Man, I see. Good for you. Welcome to your world. Keep up the schtick. It's a real winner.

HAND.
Posted by Shailing Jeper3536 2006-06-28 01:28||   2006-06-28 01:28|| Front Page Top

#7 were they defendin a "flag", or an ideer and beleef? were they defending em way of life? or a piese of colord cloth? kore to wat they were defendin wuz freedom of spreech. not the symbol representin it.
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 01:37|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 01:37|| Front Page Top

#8 //You and yours are the first to believe that the flag doesn't mean anything special. The change that allowed flag desecration happened in the mid-80's by one vote in the USSC. Think of it, how special you are. All those who went before, all those Americans, from Washington to Lincoln to TDR to MacArthur to Chesty - they were fools.//

yore a presumpshes wun. wat meens more to ya? the ideal an way of life, or em symbel that represents it?

theenk ima did say up there sumwere that ima aynt like seein it burnt....
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 01:40|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 01:40|| Front Page Top

#9 Hey, I get your incredibly insightful point. It's fucking brilliant. Congratulations.

I thought the very same thing when I was a stupid Iowa farmer's son, before I went into the Marines. And then, somewhere over the next 2.5 years, I learned something very different. It was the same piece of cloth as before, but I had changed. I "got" what all those who went before me did. If I haven't explained myself sufficiently yet, then it's not going to happen.

Go figure.

No more, please. We're done here.
Posted by Shailing Jeper3536 2006-06-28 01:45||   2006-06-28 01:45|| Front Page Top

#10 //No more, please. We're done here.
Posted by: Shailing Jeper3536 2006-06-28 01:45
//

ima aynt getter retortz? oh well.

:)
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 01:48|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 01:48|| Front Page Top

#11 p.s.

haven more respekt for yore dad.
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 01:52|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 01:52|| Front Page Top

#12 oooops. sory. doent theenk thatn wat ya ment..

:(
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 02:00|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 02:00|| Front Page Top

#13 "haven more respekt for yore dad"

Geez. I tried to be as nice as I could. You're a moron. You've never served and you don't know fuck-all about it.

"yore a presumpshes wun."

I'd say you're the presumptuous one, since you think your opinion, born of no more than a fool's understanding, is so intelligent. Do you think any serviceman would agree with your "just a piece of cloth" view? Even a REMF probably gets some kind of lump in his throat at the sight of the flag.

Explain this: If it's just a piece of cloth, no special meaning to it, just as you've claimed - then how are your free speech rights curtailed or endangered if this one little thing is off limits? How is the Republic diminished?

You're a joke and your phonetic garbage is remarkably unclever. As I said, I get your point. The problem is you don't get mine -- and appararently you never will. The symbol, if it is to actually stand for the Republic, must be treated with the same same respect, else either it is no symbol or you don't respect the Republic. That too deep?

P.S. Fuck off.
Posted by Shailing Jeper3536 2006-06-28 02:06||   2006-06-28 02:06|| Front Page Top

#14 Almost all Amers = "Statesiders" I've met on the mainland are against flag-burning or other desecration of the flag, generally becuz there are myriad other ways to get points across without resorting to burning or desecration. Flag burning says one is against America or against their nation, i.e. for treason by definition, not dissent only. The irony here is that becuz so many Americans are against flag-burning or desecration, any radical or moonbat that does it will stay a radical or moonbat, which in turn helps the GOP-Conservative/Conservative cause. Hopefully, such anti-desecration sentiment will not change in America for a long long time to come.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-06-28 02:08||   2006-06-28 02:08|| Front Page Top

#15 // "haven more respekt for yore dad"

Geez. I tried to be as nice as I could. You're a moron. You've never served and you don't know fuck-all about it.//

an yore bein presumpshes agayne. yore insinuatin that becuz i doent beleeve peeple shuld be thrown in jayle for disrespektin em flag, that it meens nuthin to me. fuk off. obviuslee freedom of speech meens nuthin to yoo. peeple shuld be imprizend if they doent hold theengs to teh same standerds as yoo. howz that for bein presumpshes?

//"yore a presumpshes wun."

I'd say you're the presumptuous one, since you think your opinion, born of no more than a fool's understanding, is so intelligent. Do you think any serviceman would agree with your "just a piece of cloth" view? Even a REMF probably gets some kind of lump in his throat at the sight of the flag.//

its a symbol that represents the ideers and peeple of this land. oh fuk it, lets jus make it yore ideas. to me its like destroyin a bible. sumwun kan mayke a messaje by doin that. but that aynt chanjed my beleefs in it or its meenin. get it? wuns yoove krosst that line an say all speech is acceptable sept this kind, then it haz lost its meenin. kapeesh? did yoo fite for a flag, or the peeple and ideas an prinsipals it represents? onse yoo start jaylen peeple for dissen a symbol yoo hold so dear, then sory. yoo are jus like em yahoos hoo want to kill yoo if yoo mishandle or desekrate their silly little koranz.

//Explain this: If it's just a piece of cloth, no special meaning to it,//

yore bein presumpshus an kompleetly missen what im sayin. thats not wat ima sed.

// just as you've claimed - then how are your free speech rights curtailed or endangered if this one little thing is off limits? How is the Republic diminished?//

kmon, itn jus wun theeng off limits! itll never go no further that! reely!
/sarkasm off

yoo doent jayle peeple for expressin emselfs. period.

//You're a joke and your phonetic garbage is remarkably unclever. As I said, I get your point. The problem is you don't get mine -- and appararently you never will. The symbol, if it is to actually stand for the Republic, must be treated with the same same respect, else either it is no symbol or you don't respect the Republic. That too deep?//

the symbol kumes sekund to the peeple an idea it stands for. not visa versa. get it?

//P.S. Fuck off.//

yore welkome.
Posted by muck4doo 2006-06-28 02:31|| http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]">[http://evolvedamnyou.blogspot.com/]  2006-06-28 02:31|| Front Page Top

#16 It's called Rantburg for a reason! :-)

DING! Round Two!
Posted by grb 2006-06-28 02:52||   2006-06-28 02:52|| Front Page Top

#17 Seems to me, muck4doo, that you haven't said anything new since #5 - merely repeated it endlessly while inserting big chunks of SJ's posts.

The most compelling argument in this thread, from my POV, is that the USofA ran along just fine without this additional bit of disrespect, er, free speech, until the 1980's. I guess we didn't know what we were missing. In fact, I'm amazed we survived.

A pleasant ending...

"I don't want to wrap myself in the flag, because I'm afraid I'll get burned."
-- former Chief Justice Warren Burger
Posted by Unusing Whutch8423 2006-06-28 03:08||   2006-06-28 03:08|| Front Page Top

#18 This proposed amendment is merely to permit Congress to make a law regarding flag desecration. It does not define the law.

Given that an amendment requires approval by 75% of the States, and this amendment proposal addresses only this one single issue, as amendments are supposed to be: very narrow and specific, the BS about this being some slippery slope ("kmon, itn jus wun theeng off limits! itll never go no further that! reely!
") is, well, pure BS. It is this one specific thing.
Posted by Angash Clort2642 2006-06-28 03:23||   2006-06-28 03:23|| Front Page Top

#19 Being so concerned with Free Speech and all, I'm sure Mucky will save a seat next to the widow for Fred Phelps.
Posted by Hupolulet Angeremble8675 2006-06-28 03:43||   2006-06-28 03:43|| Front Page Top

#20 "I would be in favor of a law exempting people who thump flag burners from prosecution."

LOL - that approach works for me. Fred.

Sure thing, buddy, you can do any damned thing you want. Mee too. Knock yerself out. Here, lemme help you with that. I figure 2" x 2" x 6' hickory will be in short fucking supply.
Posted by flyover 2006-06-28 03:56||   2006-06-28 03:56|| Front Page Top

#21 You feel strongly about a coloured piece of cloth, Koranimals feel strongly about a book.

Neither should be protected. They should stand or fall on their merits (i.e what they stand for) not their physicality.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2006-06-28 05:15||   2006-06-28 05:15|| Front Page Top

#22 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're all wrapped up with that Freedom of Expression[tm] thing while you sit like little puppy dogs with McCain-Fingold which was a dagger at the heart of free assembly, free association, free speech, and free expression. The Senate and SCOTUS had no problem restricting your rights there. So what's all the concern about cutting back on something certain to 'incite to riot'?
Posted by Glomble Ulinetch8608 2006-06-28 07:53||   2006-06-28 07:53|| Front Page Top

#23 I've had people ask me to sign petitions to get Congress to make it a crime to burn the flag for at least the last 14 years. Sometimes on line and sometimes in person. I always refuse. While it saddens and even angers me to see someone burn the flag I do not believe they should be jailed. What this ammounts to is making people into political prisoners. All they are really doing is showing their disdain for a particular administration or the USA in general. Shailing Jeper3536 I am a veteran. You say burning a flag is not speach? Is arrainging electrons on a screen to depict words speach? Is writing words on a piece of paper speach? We can not start jailing people because they have different views, whether political or social. No jail time for flag burning.
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2006-06-28 07:54||   2006-06-28 07:54|| Front Page Top

#24 We can't burn leaves, but the flag is OK. So, this fall, be sure to rake them into flag patterns.
Posted by Jackal">Jackal  2006-06-28 08:18|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2006-06-28 08:18|| Front Page Top

#25 I don't want to see flag burning. But, in order to make flag desecration illegal, Congress must first have the ability to make the flag sacred. I don't want Congress to have that ability. G-d, yes. Congress, no.
Posted by Eric Jablow">Eric Jablow  2006-06-28 08:18||   2006-06-28 08:18|| Front Page Top

#26 Well said Deacon Blues. It pisses me off to see someone desecrate the flag or the Bible, but it doesn't want to make me jail them or blow them up. We ain't muzzies nor should we act like them. Someone once said that allowing flag burning just makes the nutjobs easier to identify.

PS. Muck, man that must take a lot of work to come up with your "muck-speek";)
Posted by Spot">Spot  2006-06-28 08:30||   2006-06-28 08:30|| Front Page Top

#27 Amendment or not, I'll bust your goddamned head if I see you burning a flag.
Posted by bigjim-ky 2006-06-28 09:03||   2006-06-28 09:03|| Front Page Top

#28 I agree w/DB, BP, & the muckster. I'm glad this failed. Some jackhole burning the flag does not harm me or my family. Their burning of the flag says more about how stupid and lame the perpetrators are then how weak we are for letting them do it.

The actual meaning of the flag goes beyond the act of some moron burning it and its principles will endure beyond said act forever. Our principles are so enshrined and perfect that even burning the very symbol of those principles does not taint them or that symbol in the least. Just like my belief in God. Which is why I laugh at muzzies who got all pissed off about the cartoons. Like a God would be so petty to care what some Danish cartoonist would do. Kind of same analogy - my God and my Flag will always be bigger then the earthly actions of those trying to tarnish them.

Now, if we could just get that public burning ordinance into law. :)
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 09:51||   2006-06-28 09:51|| Front Page Top

#29 A radio commentator put it well...if this amendment ever passes, we will be able to read at midnight by the light of all the burning 49-star, 14-stripe flags...
Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious  2006-06-28 09:53||   2006-06-28 09:53|| Front Page Top

#30 This doesn't head of my list of "Shit that shouldn't be in a Constitution", but it's in the top fuckin' five.

It's speech. Annoying and disgusting, but speech. Deal with it, and stop the damn posturing.
Posted by mojo">mojo  2006-06-28 10:19||   2006-06-28 10:19|| Front Page Top

#31 The House passed a resolution forbidding any restrictions being placed on the display of the flag. I think that's something we all can get behind, since if burning the flag is supposed to be protected by the First Amendment, then so is its display.
Posted by Ptah">Ptah  2006-06-28 10:27|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]  2006-06-28 10:27|| Front Page Top

#32 Burning the flag is exactly like using the N word.
Some people are grossly offended by it. It's okay to burn a flag to destroy it, just as it's okay for the watchacallits to call each other N.
It's when either of these acts is done with malice that certain folk become uncontrollable.
So, choose your desecrations carefully.
Posted by wxjames 2006-06-28 10:49||   2006-06-28 10:49|| Front Page Top

#33 Gotta lotta anon input into Mister 4doos Rant. Sure sign of a superior post.

Now, let's go burn some bibles, no wait, can't do that the President is sworn in on one that makes it untouchable, a holey kram? naw... too damn dangerous, burning a cross? Hell I expect that's something we can all agree on. This shit is all for symbol snappers.

I expect Mister 4doo was trying to uphold the sanctity of the flagholder. Meanwhiles yawls just pissed cause you can't 'peed typ.
Posted by 6 2006-06-28 10:58||   2006-06-28 10:58|| Front Page Top

#34 wow - don't have time to read to read all the comments - but I resent the idea that because I don't support an amendment regarding flag burning that I don't respect the flag. I fly it every day and I've cried more times than I can tell you when it's passed by; it's downright embarassing.

When I see pictures of people burning flags I think of the honor, courage and commitment of the fine men and women who make it possible and the freedoms we possess that allows adolescent fools to display their stupidity.
Posted by 2b 2006-06-28 11:02||   2006-06-28 11:02|| Front Page Top

#35 You cannot legislate respect. I personnaly detest flag burning. I find it disrespectful of the country and the people that have sacrificed so much to get us where we are now. We cannot descend to the level of the people that riot and kill when rumors of Koran flushing show up in the media.

While the Congress is f*cking around with the flag burning amendment, they are ignoring essential issues that need to be addressed. Some of them are:
*Control of our borders
*Infiltration of this country by the 5th column types
*Getting good judges in the courts
*dealing with the corruption of their own houses
*runaway federal spending

to name a few.

And Mucky is our Rantburg Treasure™. Don't tread on him. **makes snake face**
Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul  2006-06-28 11:22||   2006-06-28 11:22|| Front Page Top

#36 Ya nailed it AP.

While our senators (puke) were debating this how many illegals crossed the border today because the senate can't even find the common sense to agree on putting up a wall?
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 11:34||   2006-06-28 11:34|| Front Page Top

#37 Broadhead6 dear, in this kind of thread you needed to mention in your post that you are an active duty Marine who recently returned from the Sandbox. For some people that gives your argument more weight than if a little, civilian, Midwestern housewife like I had said it.

I don't object to flag burning as such -- some people need to have public temper tantrums, and I'd rather they burn a bit of probably-made-in-China fabric than a pipe bomb -- but I fail to see why these people aren't arrested for polluting, given how artificial fibers tend to smoke and melt rather than burn cleanly... or thoroughly doused by fire extinguishers, to protect them from the flames...
Posted by trailing wife 2006-06-28 11:50||   2006-06-28 11:50|| Front Page Top

#38 given how artificial fibers tend to smoke and melt rather than burn cleanly...

Reminds me of that article.
Posted by anonymous5089 2006-06-28 11:54||   2006-06-28 11:54|| Front Page Top

#39 Don't mess with the Muckster! :P

Ok, I admit, I never served, but it wasn't for lack of trying (I have asthma....FYI. Considered lying about it, but figured I'd get caught either in the medical exam or when they made me run for the first time, so decided to be honest and voila, in spite of my education and language abilities I'm a 4F or whatever they call the "nope, not gonna take that physical defective" category nowadays.) If for some reason that makes me ineligible in your eyes to comment on this, so be it.

Personally, I get offended every time I see it used to sell cars, pest control, shoes, you name it, in a newspaper ad. It pisses me off to see it turned into boxer shorts, hats, or put on disposable party ware so some yahoo can put a huge mound of baked beans on it during their backyard bbq. To me, that's ignoring what it stands for and turning it into some kind of symbol or logo that can be used for even more merchandising. All of that shows *zero* respect for what the flag represents, and it's tolerated. That's real desecration right there, and you get a quadruple dose of it from Memorial Day to Labor Day every year.

In a weird way, at least the flag-burners are saying, (in a Palestinian temper-tantrum kinda way, anyhow) "Yes, I know what this stands for and I reject it totally." That's a lot more dignified than turning it into a decoration on a plus-size thong, complete with sequins.

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-06-28 12:35|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]  2006-06-28 12:35|| Front Page Top

#40 I hadn't thought of it that way SB, but you make an excellent point. Hear hear!
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2006-06-28 12:44||   2006-06-28 12:44|| Front Page Top

#41 PS, I also have asthma. Didn't tell but was eventually found out. I could still do all the hard stuff. Did a lot of lung building stuff in high school.
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2006-06-28 12:46||   2006-06-28 12:46|| Front Page Top

#42 There ought to be a law against thongs, period. Humans just don't have enough hair left on their bodies to look any good without clothing.

Aside from that, a lot of the use of the flag in this country is just plain tacky. I'd love to see a constitutional amendment against tackiness in general, but I don't think the hoo-mans are going to let it happen.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-06-28 12:47||   2006-06-28 12:47|| Front Page Top

#43 TW - thank you, I really appreciate that you mentioned it. I thought about it but then (not to be over presumptuous) I figured most of the folks who regularly post here like yourself know what I do. I really didn't want to play the vet card because I didn't think it really applies to the Flag - which we all have deep feelings about as Americans. I may have a little more credibility talking about troop morale or terror tactics as having been there recently but I feel every American has an equal weight when it comes to our National Ensign. Unless someone was going to question my patriotic cred I was hoping my reasoning for not wanting this amendment could stand on its own merit. I kind of find it distasteful to accuse people that what they do for a living is less patriotic then what others do (though I'm sure I've been guilty of such in the past) - I voluntarily chose to serve - it makes me no better & gives me no more credibility than a patriotic (though way too modest) Midwestern housewife ;)

BTW - when SJ brought up "REMF" - I thought it was out of place and soured his otherwise passionate argument (though I disagree w/him in principle) - as if REMF's are supposedly less patriotic than grunts. I've known more than a few so called REMF's who have been killed or wounded in Iraq.
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 12:49||   2006-06-28 12:49|| Front Page Top

#44 And finally, I'd tell the Muckster his writing style was stupid, except I can't duplicate it to save my life. It must be indicative of a higher state of conciousness.

Or, as some have speculated, an attempt to avoid the all-seeing eye of google.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2006-06-28 12:50||   2006-06-28 12:50|| Front Page Top

#45 When I see the palys and the other 3rd world shitholes burning are flag I just smile because I know the US is doing something right and the only thing they can do is burn a flag.
Posted by djohn66 2006-06-28 13:03||   2006-06-28 13:03|| Front Page Top

#46 I agree Swampy, (BTW - I was hoping you were going to re-name yourself Beach Blondie! :)

I also hate seeing the Flag on the backside of those cheerleading style shorts. I even bitched to a manager at our PX about the block lettered USMC as well as the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor being on the back of said shorts because it looked so damn tacky and lame. (Yeah, like let's sit on the flag or the EGA). Like both the EGA and the American Flag are now some damn fashion statement for a wannabe hooter's girl to wear on her ass. To me that is closer to ignorant disrespect than some true mothball smelling maggot infested peace pansie gomer burning it.
*Sigh* I guess this is just one of the perils and sometime irritation of living in a free republic.

Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 13:04||   2006-06-28 13:04|| Front Page Top

#47 djohn, which is why I'm going to burn the Mexican Flag as a protest the next time Vicente shows his ugly face on our side of the border. No worry though, I'll make sure to put it out with the beer I run through my kidneys.
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 13:07||   2006-06-28 13:07|| Front Page Top

#48 Amen to that, djohn66! Besides, they often seem to not get it right. I can't help but laugh when they burn one with blue stars, way too many or way too few stripes, etc.

DB, I didn't know that. I was afraid they'd give me a dishonorable discharge or toss my ass into Leavenworth if they found out. But considering how much trouble my mouth would have gotten me into, it's probably all for the best. ;)
Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-06-28 13:09|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]  2006-06-28 13:09|| Front Page Top

#49 Broadhead6, let me know when you do it, and I'll pony up for the beer! ;) Just don't do it somewhere like Berserkley. I'd hate for you to get busted for "hate speech" or some other crap like that.

BTW, 2 reasons I'm not "Beach Blondie":

I get sunburned real easy, and my Corvette's in the shop. ;)
Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-06-28 13:17|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]  2006-06-28 13:17|| Front Page Top

#50 Nah, they just give ya a medical discharge.
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2006-06-28 13:19||   2006-06-28 13:19|| Front Page Top

#51 Your reasoning does you credit, BH6, and normally I would agree with you -- the argument should stand or fall on its own merits. But Mr. Shailing Jeper3536 (I assume Mr. because I'm not accustomed to such thoughts coming from female minds -- I believe the acronym given in another thread is CUNT?) and the several other anonymousities who agreed with him were clearly recently enough come to this site that they don't know our darling, spelling-impaired muck4doo, who came here to argue indignantly against everything he thought we stand for, and stayed to be converted to a unique supporter of Rantburg's purpose. Which presupposes that they also didn't know of The Adventures of Broadhead6 And His Marines, in order to by their own scale give your argument the weight it deserves.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-06-28 13:23||   2006-06-28 13:23|| Front Page Top

#52 Muck can spell and speak very well. He just can't type worth a damn.
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2006-06-28 13:26||   2006-06-28 13:26|| Front Page Top

#53 I can't believe I'm on the side of Durbin.

let me tell you, if it went for Gore in 2000, at minimum, I was going to hang it upside down.

If we can't burn it, it'll get thrown in rubbish dumps, which is better?
Posted by anonymous2u 2006-06-28 13:51||   2006-06-28 13:51|| Front Page Top

#54 My 2 cents:

Burning a flag is a two-edged sword. Yeah, it gets your message noticed by everyone, but the ones with brains, who are generally the audience you care about, aren't exactly going to be working well with you after that. You'll only end up with a bunch of like-minded moonbats on your side. I'd say leave it alone and let this highly effective filter continue to do its job and hope they don't figure it out. :-)
Posted by grb 2006-06-28 13:56||   2006-06-28 13:56|| Front Page Top

#55 I hate the sight of a flag being burned, except of June 14th, but the thought of NOT being able to express that thought causes me more anguish. Put me down for support of a "Look the other way while the flag, burner falls down the steps. repeatedly" law. Amen to the other comments about the dithering Congresscritters who let the border remain more porous than the Titanic.
Posted by USN, ret. 2006-06-28 14:42||   2006-06-28 14:42|| Front Page Top

#56 TW - I appreciate the kind words. I also find it amusing when those unfamiliar w/muck4doo encounter him for the first time. Reminds me of a time I observed him visiting the DU and they couldn't make heads or tails if he was the ultimate spelling impaired moonbat comrade or a rovian deep cover clowning on their idiocy.

Swampy - make it Pabst Blue Ribbon :)

No worries about Berkley, I'm still persona non grata there. They're still pissed at me about that bit w/the kool-aid and the turkey baseter......long story.
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 14:51||   2006-06-28 14:51|| Front Page Top

#57 So, let me get this. It's ok to jail someone for burning a cross on public property [hate speech and not on private property], but it's not ok to jail someone for burning a flag [hate speech Part II] on public property. Yeah, it all make sense to me.
Posted by Glomble Ulinetch8608 2006-06-28 15:00||   2006-06-28 15:00|| Front Page Top

#58 Glomble Ulinetch8608 those two examples are not the same thing. Burning a cross is aimed at either an individual or a certain group of people. There is no doubt as to the intentions of the burners. Burning a flag is not normally an expression of hate directed at individuals or particular groups of people but is dissatisfaction with the government or governmental institutions. There is a big difference.
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2006-06-28 15:24||   2006-06-28 15:24|| Front Page Top

#59 Glomble, (not to put words in his mouth) I think DB is pointing to the legal basis for the difference, though I can see where you perceive incongruities between the two. I personally hate the whole hate speech line of thinking btw. Though I think that just like flag burning - if moronic people want to *peaceably* assemble and are dumb enough to burn a cross in the process I could give a rat's ass. Burning a cross in it/of itself does not physically hurt anyone imo. I think the KKK are idiots but if they want to assemble and do their stupid little marches & burn a cross or whatever, let'em. Same for the Nation of Islam who I also despise. If they want to go out and yell about us white devils and spew bull sh*t I could care less. It will piss a lot of folks off & I may want to "counsel" them for their ignorance but just like the old kindergarten diddy - sticks and stones.....
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 15:52||   2006-06-28 15:52|| Front Page Top

#60 Our flag, like the Bible or a Koran is a symbol of something (supposedly higher) held in our beliefs. While its burning is nothing to applaud, we must be of stronger resolve to defend what the flag symbolizes (i.e., a nation of free people) rather than elevate the symbol above what it is symbolic of.

There are few better tests of free speech, save perhaps neo-Nazis, than flag burning. Repugnant, yes. Illegal, no.
Posted by Zenster 2006-06-28 16:30||   2006-06-28 16:30|| Front Page Top

#61 darling, spelling-impaired muck4doo

LOL! Gotter you fooled. Muck is a genius Marketeer. He's his own brand, a singularity in the blogworld. Get's his own shelf space and pays no rent. It's astonishing. I think he studied Middle Englishe, muche of is phrazing, has a freelance built it yourself quality found during that time. I also suspect he has an auto=parser.
Posted by Shipman 2006-06-28 17:13||   2006-06-28 17:13|| Front Page Top

#62 I believe there are (at least) 3 aspects to this thread.

1) Symbols
2) Free Speech
3) Clubs and Cliques

Symbols
-------
FUCK YOU RANTBURG

Above you see 13 symbols: F, U, C, K, Y, O, R, A, N, T, B, G, and the space. No, no message there, just symbols. Everything that we see on Rantburg is symbolic - contrasts between pixels. Symbols have meaning - assuming you are not an idiot incapable of human reason - because humans are usually able to abstract from symbols to meaning. Symbols are the hallmark of human reason - the power, the "force multiplier" that drives and underpins our achievements. Language and math would... disappear... without symbols and the meaning attached.

Flags are symbols - sometimes very powerful symbols with a huge train of baggage. They have serious, not soy-milk latte, meaning to some. Don't Tread On Me, for example. I get it.

Pretending they are not important is silly. Saying that protecting them puts them above what they stand for is circular silliness.

Free Speech
-----------
There are many laws limiting free speech - think about the NYT and apply the logic of unlimited free speech. Think about the anger when the illegal immigrant supporters carried Mexican flags, IWP and ANSWER flags. There are hundreds of examples that indicate that some symbols are substantive, not merely the materials they're made of.

I admire those who say it doesn't mean anything, but with enough personal information about them, it would be simple to find where their hot-buttons are, find the symbols that matter to them, push them to the breaking point, and turn that sentiment into hash.

This is an ACLU-lover's dream thread. Think about it for 10 seconds.

#19 says it all.

Clubs and Cliques
-----------------
Rantburg is a club. Who posts is far more important than the words and intended meaning posted. Anonymous posters, unless they are perceived as Lefty Loonies (chew toys?), are usually ignored or denigrated. How many of you actually know each other? Personally. Face to face. Actually. Yet you act as though you do simply because you've come to "see" a personality and some measure of predictability about the positions of "known" posters.

Simply put, "known" posters get a pass, which is understandable to a degree. Looks like to me that trying to differ with any of the club members is a sure-fire ticket to shitsville, regardless and irrespective of the posted comment content.

===============

I'm anonymous to everyone here, so just ignore the post.

Personally, I'd be quite happy to have a one-one-one with a flag-burner. But that's just me. I'm presumptuous.
Posted by flyover 2006-06-28 17:24||   2006-06-28 17:24|| Front Page Top

#63 flyover's getting to be one of the guys.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-06-28 17:41||   2006-06-28 17:41|| Front Page Top

#64 No thanks, NS. Never been a joiner.
Posted by flyover 2006-06-28 17:47||   2006-06-28 17:47|| Front Page Top

#65 The flag is more than cloth. It is a symbol of MY country and of MY identity. But, if some dickhead burns burns a flag in my neighborhood, I won't shoot him or club him over the head with a baseball bat. In return, I expect the same when I burn the koran or photo of Mao. If that tolerance is not returned, then all bets on bodily harm are off.

That said, I will make sure my dogs poop in his driveway everyday for the summer. There are infinite ways to get under the skins of these types without breaking the law.
Posted by ed 2006-06-28 18:05||   2006-06-28 18:05|| Front Page Top

#66 You don't join; you get infected. You're showing symptoms.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-06-28 18:12||   2006-06-28 18:12|| Front Page Top

#67 Ship, what up bro'? The old JH talking at ya. Still in Louisiana IIRC?
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 21:43||   2006-06-28 21:43|| Front Page Top

#68 How many of you actually know each other? Personally. Face to face. Actually.

Some of the regulars do, flyover. How's that infection coming? ;-)

Reminds me of a group of friends I had waaayyyy back in college. Called ourselves the Polygon (many sided figure) because we had too many odd corners to be a 'circle'. But damned if we didn't grow on one another over a couple years. And interesting how many of us (baby boomers all) went career military or married one.

Just sayin'
Posted by lotp 2006-06-28 21:47||   2006-06-28 21:47|| Front Page Top

#69 "How many of you actually know each other? Personally. Face to face. Actually."

-I wasn't at the last Rantapalooza. One of the other regulars would have to answer that one. Maybe a half-dozen or more have met each other face to face but I'm not sure.
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 22:01||   2006-06-28 22:01|| Front Page Top

#70 AP and I met for lunch. Neither of us is ditching our significant others :-)
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-06-28 22:07||   2006-06-28 22:07|| Front Page Top

#71 LOL
Posted by lotp 2006-06-28 22:18||   2006-06-28 22:18|| Front Page Top

#72 "I'm anonymous to everyone here, so just ignore the post."

-yeah, after I read it I figured that was the best course of action as well.
Posted by Broadhead6 2006-06-28 22:22||   2006-06-28 22:22|| Front Page Top

#73 Frank---LOL!

anymouse and I had lunch on Tuesday. Many of us talk to each other by phone. Rantburg does not have a video link for meetings at this time. The world is just not ready for us yet.
Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul  2006-06-28 22:29||   2006-06-28 22:29|| Front Page Top

#74 no offense, Paul :-)
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-06-28 22:33||   2006-06-28 22:33|| Front Page Top

#75 We gotta quit meetin' like this, :
Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul  2006-06-28 22:37||   2006-06-28 22:37|| Front Page Top

#76 Counting Paloozas and drunken bacchanals, er...high level editorial staff meetings, I've met about 30 - 35 Rantburgers, each and every one a fine human being and nice to their Moms. I hope to meet many more.

Which reminds me, I'm going over the Pond to Al-Andalus in September and would greatly love to have a Europalooza. Any and all of you Euroburgers are encouraged to email me to arrange same, and please try to have your tranport and hospitality unions to stay on the job during my visit.
Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious  2006-06-28 23:22||   2006-06-28 23:22|| Front Page Top

23:52 Kristine Kid
23:52 Redneck Jim
23:48 Kristine Kid
23:43 Redneck Jim
23:43 gromgoru
23:41 gromgoru
23:38 Frank G
23:27 bigjim-ky
23:27 Anginens Threreng8133
23:26 Sherry
23:25 plainslow
23:25 bigjim-ky
23:24 Gen. John Murtha
23:22 bigjim-ky
23:22 Seafarious
23:19 bigjim-ky
23:18 Cyber Sarge
23:16 Cyber Sarge
23:15 Sherry
23:09 Broadhead6
23:07 Anonymoose
23:06 anymouse
23:02 Anonymoose
23:00 anymouse









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