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2006-07-31 Europe
French FM has Vichy moment about iran...
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Posted by anonymous5089 2006-07-31 13:09|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 More at Haaretz...
Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-07-31 13:22||   2006-07-31 13:22|| Front Page Top

#2 Thanks for the link; I rapidly checked with google to see if it was mentioned elsewhere, but I settled for just translating the quote, which is mindboggling indeed. French "Arab Policy" at work.
Posted by anonymous5089 2006-07-31 13:28||   2006-07-31 13:28|| Front Page Top

#3 And somehow this is supposed to raise French stature in the world?
Posted by gorb 2006-07-31 14:15||   2006-07-31 14:15|| Front Page Top

#4 France, is that a country?
Posted by Captain America 2006-07-31 19:33||   2006-07-31 19:33|| Front Page Top

#5 Now, now, people - let's not diss the FM too much.

He's sort of right - he just misspoke (or the translation's a little off). I'm sure what he meant to say is Iran wants to play a stabilizing role in the region, and that's true.

Dead Jews, Christians, Sunnis, Druze, etc., are very stable.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2006-07-31 19:47|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com]  2006-07-31 19:47|| Front Page Top

#6 I SURRENDER
Based on "I surrender dear" (1938)
Sung by Bing Crosby

With burquas on
They must be loose
Fashions gone
Appeasement truce
We can't help it cuz we're French
We surrender to you,!

Roving gangs;
Religious police,
We say yes sir;
No women loose,
We can't help it cuz we're French
The wine is gone too

They took us over
We didn't care
Iranian mulla
To lead us now,
Amputations
and the stonings,
But I don't care
Cuz I'm French

When they appear
We bow down low,
Cause we have fear
We're all aglow,
To you O Mullah, my life, my all,
I surrender, to you!

Song Page
I Surrender Dear Link
http://gitpicker.com/isurrender.mid
Posted by Ogeretla 2006 2006-07-31 19:54||   2006-07-31 19:54|| Front Page Top

#7 Bravo! bravo! *throws a thornless rose at the author (but clearly not meant for sniper duty, as the aim is off, and it hits the head of the elderly lady sitting just below the box, knocking her little hat askew)*
Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-31 20:12||   2006-07-31 20:12|| Front Page Top

#8 Well, Captain America, France is supposed to be a country. I am living in France, and I see constantly the French people acting as if France was still a real country. The vast majority of them don't seem to understand that their country is on the way of total marginalization, if it continues like that.

And, gorb, don't forget that the French governments, during the last 39 years (in 1967, De Gaulle created the "french arab politics" after the 6 Days War), believe firmly that they can raise the stature of France in the world by bowing down before all muslim leaders and muslim people.

In France, a lot of people are walking on their heads. Don't laugh at them, thats difficult.
Posted by leroidavid">leroidavid  2006-07-31 20:28||   2006-07-31 20:28|| Front Page Top

#9 I am very proud to be French.

We had the best wines, and now we have the best anencephalic President, Prime Minister, and Foreign Minister.

You, strange Americans, who didn't elect the marvelous John Kerry, are completly beaten.
Posted by leroidavid">leroidavid  2006-07-31 20:34||   2006-07-31 20:34|| Front Page Top

#10 TW

/strike :-)
Posted by RD 2006-07-31 20:34||   2006-07-31 20:34|| Front Page Top

#11 LOL, #9 Leroi. ;-p
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2006-07-31 20:42|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com]  2006-07-31 20:42|| Front Page Top

#12 leroidavid, please announce to Rantburg when you are ready to be sponsored to come to America (a5089 and JFM have already been invited). Clearly you would be as much an asset as our long-standing foreign correspondents. Between us we have a lot of useful contacts, and will find a way to make it happen.

Barbara, you've been sharpening your scalpels again, dear -- I can always tell.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-31 20:53||   2006-07-31 20:53|| Front Page Top

#13 Thanks, Trailing Wife.

America is a country I like a lot. The problem is, it's so vast that I don't know in which State I would settle, if I decide to come to America. So, I am planning to visit your big country in detail (traveling from State to State by car), for more than 2 months (if possible), maybe next year. For the moment, I know only Boston, Cambridge, and New York, so I have a lot to discover in reality (I've read a lot of guides and books of course).
Posted by leroidavid">leroidavid  2006-07-31 21:17||   2006-07-31 21:17|| Front Page Top

#14 "In the region, there is of course a country like Iran, a great country, a great people and a great civilization, which is respected and plays a stabilizing role in the region"

A great country
A great people
A great civilization

No questions. No doubts. These three are true.

However, it is not so much respected. Respect is one thing Iran definitely seeks. Respect and (largely U.S.) recognition.

It definitely plays a stabilizing role in the region. The destabilizers, of course, are Israel and the U.S. Neither are so much respected either; the Jews (but not modern Israel) are a civilization onto themselves but this nation-state incarnation nearly defines the meaning of "destabilizing force"; the US lacks a history (other than brutally violent)to be accorded the status of a great civilization and as to whether it be a great country with great people ... God hopes they are not reading many of the comments here because America - that irascible, irresponsible, immature yet deliciously, lustfully free nation - has so much more to offer than racist hatemongering filth.
Posted by Doggod 2006-07-31 21:18||   2006-07-31 21:18|| Front Page Top

#15 LOL.
Posted by Supple Whomper9999 2006-07-31 21:24||   2006-07-31 21:24|| Front Page Top

#16 We're a mobile peole, leroidavid. Where you start need not be where you end up. You want to look more at career opportunities and contacts, truly. In Cincinnati, Ohio, for instance, one of the nicer, more international suburbs (the secondary school is one of those in the area that awards the International Baccalaureate degree as well as a State diploma, the same as the American School in Paris), celebrates Bastille Day every year in nice style. And Hebrew Union College, the Reform rabbinic school, was established here 1 1/2 centuries ago.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-31 21:29||   2006-07-31 21:29|| Front Page Top

#17 I agree:

1) Iran seeks definitely respect. Aiming definitely for a new genocide of the Jews is the best way to be respected.

2) Fighting dictatorships and terrorists, as the US and Israel are doing, is destabilizing. Mass graves are much more stable.

3) America is irresponsible and immature. Saving the world during WWII, then during the 50 years of the Cold War, and nowadays in the War on Terror, is clearly irresponsible and immature.

Doggod, confess it: are you the secret assistant of Philippe Douste-Blazy, the French FM?
Posted by leroidavid">leroidavid  2006-07-31 21:37||   2006-07-31 21:37|| Front Page Top

#18 Nicely parsed, leroidavid. Oh, and we're a mobile people, too.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-31 21:40||   2006-07-31 21:40|| Front Page Top

#19 "So, I am planning to visit your big country in detail (traveling from State to State by car), for more than 2 months (if possible), maybe next year."

By car is definitely the way to go. There's a lot to see, and you get no idea of the size of this place from flying in an airplane. I've driven coast-to-coast several times, and it's great fun.

"For the moment, I know only Boston, Cambridge, and New York, so I have a lot to discover in reality."

If you're ever in Philadelphia, stop by and visit.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-07-31 21:47||   2006-07-31 21:47|| Front Page Top

#20 LOL, leroidavid. I'll choose a different tack in my response...

Stabilizing role? Iran? Are there two of them?

Great country? Really? In what respects?
Great people? When? Now? LOL. In what...
Great civilization? Same questions.

Evidence, son, let's see the evidence for any of those silly assertions.

Definitely not respected by true democracies peopled by those who think and decide for themselves. Respect? You've got to be kidding - or self-deluded. Iran is a religious dictatorship. It doesn't get any more fucked up than that. Iran has a very bad case of Little Dick Syndrome. Desperate to be a major player -- when it is as backward, brutal, and barbaric as any shithole of the 7th Century.

The history of the US put the history of Persia to shame on its first day. Freedom vs Barbarism. No contest.

The hate-mongering comes from the Iranians, who would wipe a true democracy off the map -- in their dreams. They are so sophomoric and pathetic they paint "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" on their missiles, LOL. That the reverse is far more likely must terrify them. That's some funny shit.

Iran is doomed because they choose to be. You are deluded because you choose to be.
Posted by Supple Whomper9999 2006-07-31 21:49||   2006-07-31 21:49|| Front Page Top

#21 I am aware of that, Trailing Wife, and this is a big difference from France.

What you are telling me about Cincinnati is very interesting. I like to learn such examples of the astonishing American patchwork.

Concerning mobility, my specific material problem is that I have some tons of books to move, so I have to think twice before jumping over the Atlantic.
Posted by leroidavid">leroidavid  2006-07-31 21:54||   2006-07-31 21:54|| Front Page Top

#22 I agree with you, Supple Whomper9999, when you say that Iran isn't a great civilization nowadays (It's not a civilization at all, just a dictatorship).

But we have to remind that once upon a time, there were great civilizations in Persia: for example, 3000 BC, in what is now the south of Iran, began the civilization of Jiroft, which has been discovered only two years ago, and which was very rich artisticaly speaking; and during the 5th century BC flourished Persepolis, a great civilization (tough immature and very irascible...).

It's a pity to see what this people has became thanks to islamism.
Posted by leroidavid">leroidavid  2006-07-31 22:11||   2006-07-31 22:11|| Front Page Top

#23 Books are easy to move, so long as the packing boxes are sturdy, unlike crystal or antique ceramics. Easy to store, too, if the first temporary housing situation doesn't have room for all the bookcases needed (I've done it -- I chose "trailing wife" because I followed my husband to Europe 1991-1996 when his corporation needed him there (Bad Soden, Germany near Frankfurt, and Overijse near Brussels). Trailing daughter #1 was born in the US, but trailing daughter #2 was born in Frankfurt, and can never be President.)

Back on topic, Iraq was civilized in the Bronze Age, when Abraham left Ur to go to his promised land in Canaan. Iron Age Persia was a civilized empire, although very different than contemporaneous Greece or Rome. They managed to avoid the worst of the Muslim excesses for a while after being conquered, but eventually succumbed, and clearly never recovered.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-31 22:14||   2006-07-31 22:14|| Front Page Top

#24 #13 leroidavid - make sure you come through Virginia. Drinks are on me.

#12 TW - Meow. ;-p
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2006-07-31 22:26|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com]  2006-07-31 22:26|| Front Page Top

#25 Thanks for your invitation, Dave D. I will remember it.

Trailing wife, books are easy to move (with strong movers), but I really have the will to travel by car in the States for a while, before making my choice (a child's dream that a lot of people share in France, even if most are politically anti-American).

And now, for the people who can appreciate the greatness of the French government, a little story: in march 2001, Jacques Chirac welcomed in Paris, with great honors and red carpet, the Zimbabwean dictator Mugabe, who was (and still is) banned by all other countries (including all other EU countries); he cheered him, he cajoled him, and called him a great leader (I can't remember, though, if he spoke of the stabilizing role of Zimbabwe...); and Mugabe, delighted went back to his dictatorship, where he still is, working to destroy completly his (now) poor country.
Posted by leroidavid">leroidavid  2006-07-31 22:40||   2006-07-31 22:40|| Front Page Top

#26 TW - trailing daughter #2 can be president.
You and your hubby are American. That is all that matters.
Posted by 3dc 2006-07-31 22:42||   2006-07-31 22:42|| Front Page Top

#27 US Constitution Article 2: No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
Posted by ed 2006-07-31 22:57||   2006-07-31 22:57|| Front Page Top

#28 It is my understanding, 3dc, that the child of an American citizen is automatically a citizen as well... unless the following obtains: the child of the citizen is not born on American soil or American territory (so a hospital on an American army base counts as American soil), the child's child is also not born on American soil or American territory. Thus td #2's child must be born on American soil or American territory in order to automatically acquire citizenship at birth. This, we were told, was to prevent returnees from creating anchor babies into perpetuity.

This is separate from being President, and when td#2 was born, we were told she could not become President because of the extra-territoriality of her birth. I could, however, have been misinformed -- as she doesn't seem the type to become active in politics, we haven't looked into it further.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-07-31 23:04||   2006-07-31 23:04|| Front Page Top

#29 3dc is correct. The key phrase is "Natural-born citizen":
Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

George W. Romney, the governor of Michigan who sought the presidency in 1968, was born in Mexico to American parents. John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone.
Posted by ed 2006-07-31 23:27||   2006-07-31 23:27|| Front Page Top

00:22 JosephMendiola
23:59 Cliter Hupunter6941
23:47 ed
23:39 Clerert Uneamp2772
23:27 ed
23:25 Cliter Hupunter6941
23:16 2b
23:04 trailing wife
23:03 3dc
22:59 Jules in the Hinterlands
22:58 Frank G
22:57 ed
22:53 Glains Threrese9277
22:47 Clerert Uneamp2772
22:45 Jackal
22:42 3dc
22:40 leroidavid
22:30 OregonGuy
22:30 Thoth
22:26 Barbara Skolaut
22:26 Pappy
22:19 6
22:18 FeralCat
22:16 Pappy









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