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2006-08-18 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

StrategyPage Israel: Who's At Fault, And What To Do About It

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Posted by ed 2006-08-18 07:12|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 from the book "Storm from the East" by Robert Marshall:

The Mongols' prime objective was the Caliph of Baghdad, but before confronting him they meant to eliminate the other major power in the region, The Ismailis or Assassins. They had emerged because of a schism in the Shia Muslim sect and established themselves in northern and eastern Persia by taking and controlling a series of mountain fortifications. Behind their walls they lived a contemplative life, producing beautifully wrought paintings and metalworks, buy beyond their retreats they terrorized those civilizations they deemed heretical and so earned the enmity not just of the rest of the Islamic world but eventually of Europe. Rather than confronting his enemies in open combat he preferred to sponsor a campaign of political murder, usually executed with a dagger in the back, as the means to his ends.

The Mongols has their own reasons for launching a campaign against the Assassins. First, they had received a plea of help from an Islamic judge in Qaswin, a town near the Assassins' stronghold at Alamut, who had complained that his fellow citizens were forced to wear armour all the time as protection from the Assassins' daggers. According to Rubruck, another reason that determined Mongol attitudes was the discovery of a plot to send no fewer than 400 dagger-wielding Assassins in disguise to Qaraqorum with the instructions to murder the Great Khan. The Assassins had encountered the Mongols once before, during Chormaghun's terror raid through northern Persia 1237-8, which led them to send an envoy to Europe to beg help.

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On 1 January 1256 Hulegu's army crossed the Oxus River and brought into Persia the most formidable war machine ever seen. It possessed the very latest in siege engineering, gunpowder from China, catapults that would send balls of flaming naphtha into their enemy's cities, and divisions of rigorously trained mounted archers led by generals who had learnt their skills at the feet of Genghis Khan and Subedei. As news of Hulegu's army spread he was soon presented with a succession of sultans, emirs, and atabaks from as far apart as Asia Minor and Herat, all come to pay homage. Its sheer presence brought to an end nearly forty years of rebellion and unrest in the old lands of Khwarazmia, but to the inhabitants of Persia and Syria it was the dawn of a new world order.

The Mongols made first for the Elburz Mountains where the Assassins lay in wait behind what they believed to be their impregnable fortresses. With extraordinary ingenuity the Mongol generals and their Chinese engineers manoeuvred their artillery up the mountain slopes and set them up around the walls of the fortress of Alamut. But before the order was given to commence firing the Assassins' Grand Master, Rukn ad_Din signaled that he wanted to negotiate. Hulegu countered that he must immediately order the destruction of his own fortifications; when Rukn ad_Din prevaricated; the bombardment commenced. Under the most devastatingly accurate fire, the walls quickly tumbled and Rukn ad_Din surrendered. Hulegu took him prisoner, transported him to every Assassin castle they confronted, and paraded him before each garrison with the demand for an immediate surrender. Some obliged, as at Alamut; while others, like Gerdkuh, had to be taken by force. Today the spherical stone missiles fired by the artillery teams at the walls still litter the perimeter of the ruins. Whether each 'eagle's nest' surrendered or taken, the Mongols put all the inhabitants to the swords - even the women in their homes and the babies in their cradles.

As the slaughter continued, Rukn ad_Din begged Hulegu to allow him to go to Qaraqorum where he would pay homage to the great Khan and plead for clemency. Hulegu agreed, but when he got to Qaraqorum Mongke Khan refused to see him. It was effectively a sentence of death. On the journey back his Mongol escorts turned on the Grand Master and his attendants, who were 'kicked to a pulp'. The Persian historian Juvaini commented that 'the world had been cleansed'. Five hundred years later Edward Gibbon echoed those sentiments, claiming that the Mongols' campaign 'may be considered as a service to mankind'. It took two years for the Mongols to dislodge over 200 'eagle's nests', but in the process they virtually expunged the Assassins from Persia.

Posted by Threack Elmuse5948 2006-08-18 10:05|| 2006-08-18 10:05|| Front Page Top

#2 I read that the slaughter in Baghdad was over 200,000. But what happened to the Mongol's in Central Asia? They found the Islam ideology better suited for their plunder lifestyle, and converted. The Moghul leaders of India, were descendents of Khan, whose name is still taken by Muslims (but never by Hindus).

Frankly, we would have been better off facing Mongols than the current misrulers of the Middle East.

Posted by Snease Shaiting3550 2006-08-18 10:19|| 2006-08-18 10:19|| Front Page Top

#3 Timely analysis of the Israeli intervention in Lebanon. However, the destruction of Hizbollah Lebanon is greatly understated. The 3 major terror centers were totally ruined. But, now comes the next wave of missiles; and there goes Israel unless we pre-empt this enemy's capacity to wage war.

http://www.csis.org/index.php?option=com_csis_pubs&task=view&id=3449

Posted by Snease Shaiting3550 2006-08-18 10:24|| 2006-08-18 10:24|| Front Page Top

#4 Here is the money quote:

"Historically, a noticeable increase in violence by Islamic radicals occurred every three or four generations. . . . The terrorists almost always lost, usually when a powerful ruler in the area launched a major military operation against the population . . . that was supporting the terrorists. Much bloodshed ensued. Today these measures would be described as genocide and war crimes."

We need to get back to the tried an true methods with these animals. The fact that this happens every couple of generations tells you everything you need to know about the Religion Of Peace.

Al

Posted by Frozen Al">Frozen Al 2006-08-18 11:46|| 2006-08-18 11:46|| Front Page Top

#5 A valuable history lesson. But the author is wrong. The correct method of dealing with the menace remains the same. Kill them as fast as possible. The more brutal the better. When reduced to a whimpering mass, the Death Cult will go submissive again for a few hundred years. Today, instead of going house to house with swords, we have the means to bring detruction from the skies to their whole areas and make it glow in the dark. It only requires willpower.

Posted by SOP35/Rat 2006-08-18 11:53|| 2006-08-18 11:53|| Front Page Top

#6 The fact that this happens every couple of generations tells you everything you need to know about the Religion Of Peace.

And us.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-18 11:54|| 2006-08-18 11:54|| Front Page Top

#7 Oh, and happy anniversary, Jenjis

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-18 11:56|| 2006-08-18 11:56|| Front Page Top

#8 I agree w/Al & Rat. However, (and this is going to sound f*cking barbaric but here goes) I think we need to take it a step further. If you have a weed and you simply mow it down eventually it grows back as we said. Like muzzie extremists, maybe it takes 30-40 years for them to grow like a weed, they eventually become emboldened, cause harm to innocent folks and then we are back to fighting them again. Why not pull the weed out from it's roots? What I am proposing (besides being my own mental masturbations) flys in the face of all we Americans hold dear as far a freedom of religion goes. I think it's time to start incrementally destroying islam itself. Whether you burn the koran, call their teachings apostate, push as much western ideology on them as possible, or go so draconian as to discourage or outlaw their religion something needs to happen. (Like they themselves did to the zoaroastrians (sp?).) Until islam is so marginalized or no longer a threat - we will always be dealing w/these assholes. When another's religion becomes a physical threat to your family, your own personal security and our freedoms, something must be done to not just treat the symptoms but also destroy the root cause. Their ideology needs to be thrown on the trash heap of history as incompatible w/living in a modern global community.

Posted by Broadhead6 2006-08-18 12:45|| 2006-08-18 12:45|| Front Page Top

#9 It will require either destroying the ideology or pushing back the borders until islamic peoples cannot generate enough power to be more than a nuisance. Either way, a whole of people will die
And a whole lot of us will die if we do nothing or not enough.

But the current method of trying to impose democracy will fail without destroying islam first. As seen in Iraq, the westernized exiles and mullahs were quickly pushed out or murdered to be replaced by exiles from Iran. The politics of consensus and compromise do not work in the face of intimidation and assassination.

Posted by ed 2006-08-18 13:00|| 2006-08-18 13:00|| Front Page Top

#10 I agree ed. Their voters will eventually learn the hard way when they put extremists in power - even democratically. The old axiom, you get the gov't you tolerate.

Posted by Broadhead6 2006-08-18 13:02|| 2006-08-18 13:02|| Front Page Top

#11 Their ideology needs to be thrown on the trash heap of history as incompatible w/living in a modern global community.

That's happening right now. Much of the virulence of the Islamic radicals is due to their inability to keep the faithful practicing Islam through any social mechanism except violence. While that worked for the Roman Empire, and even into the seventh century, it won't work in the modern world. Just as the Soviet Union ultimately collapsed in the intractable face of modernity, so will Islam. It may take a lifetime, but by the end of this century Islam will be relegated to the backward corners of the world where the modern world has no need to go. Where the modern goes, it will become apparent to all that Islam cannot compete. But getting theree will be hell.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-18 13:03|| 2006-08-18 13:03|| Front Page Top

#12 Nimble, I'm not so sure about that. The kids in the UK didn't need to be coerced through violence. As the Islamic world continues to wallow in its inferiority the population will likely turn even more to the cause of their failures...Islam. The "religion" helps them deflect the true causes of their malaise and protects them from the pain of introspection.

This will continue until what I see as the inevitable happens...a whole lot of people in the west die from some terrorist event. Only then will the rage be great enough to call the islamist what they are...a cancer on the earth. Only after millions of their brethren have been torched will their capacity for introspection be called upon. Then and only then will the world campaign to rid the world of islam begin in earnest.

Posted by remoteman 2006-08-18 18:00|| 2006-08-18 18:00|| Front Page Top

#13 Yes, I wonder about the appeal of radicalism among apparently well-educated and upwardly-mobile 'westernized' moslems. Aside from the 72 virgins ploy, the main appeal seems to be to provide a elusive sense of meaning and purpose, sort of like "Happy Days" in the midst of the stagflation of the mid 70's. Let's hope that this trend has already 'jumped the shark'.

Posted by Wheger Snaise9721 2006-08-18 20:10|| 2006-08-18 20:10|| Front Page Top

#14 he gives too much of a pass to teh PAk Generals and ISI - they have decided to continue the Taliban/Jihadi training to destabilize/control Afghanistan and as a weapon in Kashmir and against India. They are equally guilty. I'd like to see some "Terminal Resignations" among the ISI and Pak Generals. Force Perv to make a choice and crack down internally. Don't groipe to me that it's "hard" - tell me it's possible and let the ISI suffer the consequences

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-08-18 20:12|| 2006-08-18 20:12|| Front Page Top

#15 I wonder about the appeal of radicalism among apparently well-educated and upwardly-mobile 'westernized' moslems

Why? The cause is apparent when you see the conversions among previously secular Europeans. Where there is a core emptiness of values and belief, fanaticism seems quite attractive. It's a pattern that has played out time and again.

It's informative to compare the reaction of many Muslims who encounter the west / live here with that of Indians, who often come from equally impoverished backgrounds. Despite the rigidities of traditional Indian culture - and they are definitely there, as my Indian friends over the years have helped me see - Hinduism, Buddhism and the smaller sects of India have always had flexibility and a fair sophistication in their world view. These people adapt well and contribute well to the west when they come, or to their original culture when they return.

Islam has never had that sophistication at its root, and seldom on its surface. When it's entwined with tribal traditions like honour killing, and then that whole brittle structure comes into contact with the west, it starts cracking and its adherents patch it up with Jihadi Super Glue.

Posted by lotp 2006-08-18 20:26|| 2006-08-18 20:26|| Front Page Top

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