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2007-09-01 Home Front: Culture Wars
Update: Appeals court says need for sonar in Navy drills outweighs threat
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Posted by Frank G 2007-09-01 00:00|| || Front Page|| [9 views ]  Top

#1 The 9th ruled this way on this? Here or in Bizarro World?
Posted by tu3031 2007-09-01 00:25||   2007-09-01 00:25|| Front Page Top

#2 If I could do just one great thing with my life, it would be to find a cheap an efficient way to drill oil offshore which also kills whales.
Posted by Iblis">Iblis  2007-09-01 00:35||   2007-09-01 00:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Cut to the chase - bring back whale oil lamps...
Posted by M. Murcek">M. Murcek  2007-09-01 01:09||   2007-09-01 01:09|| Front Page Top

#4 Japanese eat whales, more power to them.
Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-09-01 14:25||   2007-09-01 14:25|| Front Page Top

#5 Just so that you're aware; The near extinction of whales had a tremendously negative impact upon the marine biosphere. Unhealthy juveniles and baby calf whales represent a critical component in the diet of orcas, or killer whales.

During most of the 20th century, America's Pacific coast cetacean herds were so depleted that orcas turned elsewhere for sustenance. Sea lions and seals took a massive hit and the repercussions traveled down the entire food chain to include otter populations and the like. Otters control sea urchin numbers who otherwise strip out the kelp forests rather quickly.

Absence of the orcas' preferred nutrition source may yet cause some serious collapses in the marine food chain. To wit (the article is from 2001, but you can be sure things have only gotten worse):
Throughout the Gulf of Alaska and probably the Bering Sea, too, the balance of prey and predator has been upended, a transformation so extreme that it's being called a "regime shift." Waters once brimming with seals, otters and king crab are now dominated by sharks, pollock and urchins. Virtually no creature remains untouched.

Piece by piece, over the last three years, scientists have started to solve the puzzle. Clues point toward something - almost imperceptible - that happened in the ocean in 1977. But the answers are more disturbing than satisfying, more elusive than conclusive. It seems the ocean's chain of life is actually a fragile, silken web. If just one strand is removed, the whole thing unravels. And it may never be whole again.

In the 1980s, as many as 100,000 otters inhabited the islands. Today, only about 6,000 remain, according to aerial surveys. Between 1992 and 2000, the population dropped by 70 percent, a rate of decline that researchers say is unprecedented for any mammal population in the world.

In 1995, when they began to notice the signs of a population decline, marine biologist Tim Tinker and Estes, who specialize in otter behavior and population biology, at first looked for signs of disease, famine or reproductive troubles. They found none.

For a couple of years, as the decline steepened, they were baffled. If thousands of otters had died, where were the bodies?

Then it dawned on Tinker: Perhaps the animals were being eaten.

By killer whales.

Otters are so small and killer whales so voracious that four whales could have eaten 40,000 otters in five years.

Only time will tell if recovering whale populations can help reverse this massive collapse. It has taken almost 25 years—one quarter of a century—for the Monterey Bay otter population to climb from 1,000 to 3,000 individuals. Imagine how long it will take for some 90,000 otters to repopulate in the Aelutians. Meanwhile, the vital kelp forests are being clear cut by over-populating sea urchins. I doubt all the sushi bars can keep up with such an over-supply.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2007-09-01 18:42||   2007-09-01 18:42|| Front Page Top

#6 the whales in question, Zen, would likely be California Gray Whales, which are at their natural population. This is an example of opponents of the Naval military force using environmental suits to achieve a political effect. They also want to be reimbursed at a 3:1 ratio for their legal costs. To the first, I say "no", to the second, I say "FUCK NO". A couple losses at great internal legal cost, will stop this shit. These are your nutroots, operating at a legal level above their head. Ultimately, national security trumps all, til the Donks can get a majority of their useful idiots on the SCOTUS
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-09-01 19:04||   2007-09-01 19:04|| Front Page Top

#7 If I could do just one great thing with my life, it would be to find a cheap an efficient way to drill oil offshore which also kills whales.

And Sea Otters, mustn't forget them.
Posted by Natural Law 2007-09-01 19:46||   2007-09-01 19:46|| Front Page Top

#8 I have certainly no ill will to the marine life - hell, I live in San Diego, and our economy depends on:
a) tourists
b) the military
c) other

it's just that I've dealt with similar (smaller-scale) assholes. They have an agenda (usually anti-American/Anti-development/Anti-something) and they use environmental regulations to create opposition and achieve delays. They lie about issues, always with the goal (stopping the Mil/Industrial/Developer complex) justifying the means. To date, there is a overgrowth of Pinnipeds (seals, sea lions, et al) on the California Coast. There is stability of the California Grey Whale. These facts are not disputed. There have been no major beaching of animals in So Cal, so the lawsuit is BUNK. If you fight these assholes and refuse to pay their legal costs (the usual extortion) a couple times, they will find no lawyers willing to take their cases. Go to the mat and F*CK em. It's in the nation's and societies' interests
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-09-01 19:59||   2007-09-01 19:59|| Front Page Top

#9 This is an example of opponents of the Naval military force using environmental suits to achieve a political effect. They also want to be reimbursed at a 3:1 ratio for their legal costs. To the first, I say "no", to the second, I say "FUCK NO". A couple losses at great internal legal cost, will stop this shit.

Frank, I was already aware of most all of the above save the bullshit 3:1 reimbursement demand. I'm also aware that there is no conclusive evidence that the massive sonar blasts actually disorient or damage marine wildlife sensoria. My only wish was to respond to those who wrote off the importance of our cetacean creatures. Mammalian deep-diving is an ability we are only now beginning to understand. Comprehending it could play a pivotal role in suspended animation for interstellar travel or long-term cryogenic suspension to preserve near-extinct lifeforms.

Any of us who watched the "How Modern Liberals Think" video posted yesterday knows damn well that the liberals refused to be confused by facts. My only point was to interject some points of interest for those who are concerned about documented environmental impact.
Posted by Whinemp Black1880 2007-09-01 22:21||   2007-09-01 22:21|| Front Page Top

#10 would that be you, Zen? Lurking?
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-09-01 23:06||   2007-09-01 23:06|| Front Page Top

#11 Hammit all to Dell, it's me Frank. Thenk, ewe.
Posted by Zenster 2007-09-01 23:42||   2007-09-01 23:42|| Front Page Top

#12 I'm in the middle of creating a single crust pie some 9" diameter with an underlayer of peeled nectarine plus slices of peach and suspended in a fresh raspberry, blood orange juice and spice slanted preserve just for jollies before I then apply the brown-sugar, butter, vanilla crumb betty that covers the inner half of this she-devil pie-pan lovechild.
Posted by Zenster 2007-09-01 23:51||   2007-09-01 23:51|| Front Page Top

23:55 Flainter Dingle2391
23:51 Zenster
23:42 Zenster
23:32 Seafarious
23:23 BA
23:21 Bright Pebbles
23:13 KBK
23:06 Frank G
22:21 Whinemp Black1880
22:01 Gary and the Samoyeds
21:49 Excalibur
21:42 DMFD
21:19 Old Patriot
21:06 Remoteman
20:43 Anguper Hupomosing9418
20:31 trailing wife
20:25 lotp
20:12 lotp
20:06 twobyfour
19:59 Frank G
19:46 Natural Law
19:35 Skunky Glins5285
19:32 Phinater Thraviger
19:29 Phinater Thraviger









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