Article

2008-03-30 Afghanistan

Lance Corporal Matt Croucher hurls himself onto Taliban grenade

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Posted by Fred 2008-03-30 00:00|| || Front Page|| [8 views ] Top
File under: Taliban

#1 agreed, Fred. It's a management/decision loop problem above the front lines to the PM that sucks

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-03-30 00:16|| 2008-03-30 00:16|| Front Page Top

#2 So...does he win the Victoria Cross or will he be charged with an anti Muslim hate crime when he gets back to England?

Posted by tu3031 2008-03-30 00:48|| 2008-03-30 00:48|| Front Page Top

#3 I got a lecture from a combat NCO once on blast physics, and why there are few if any reasons to jump on a grenade. Even if you are lying prone just two or three feet away from one, there's a good chance that the worst you'll get is a ruptured eardrum and what he called "band-aid" frag.

But you *don't* want to be standing up near one. If you are its blast cone, you are boned. But the blast cone is a 45 degree up angle from where it is on the ground. Outside of that cone, there is a lot less of everything.

He figured that unless you get an airburst, if it manages to hit the ground, the odds favor at least 1/2 to 1 second to get flat, even if the thrower cooked it off before throwing. This is because most throwers give themselves extra time, even if they know what they are doing.

If it is an inexperienced or scared thrower, you could have 2 or three very long seconds to get out of there. Unless you are lying on top of the grenade.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-03-30 00:50|| 2008-03-30 00:50|| Front Page Top

#4 When my son was in Marine Corps boot camp in 1996, they told him that if they threw themselves on a grenade and died, they would get the Medal of Honor, but if they lived, they'd only get the Silver Star. (Not that they were recommending doing it.)
I never quite figured that one out.

Posted by Rambler in California">Rambler in California 2008-03-30 02:44|| 2008-03-30 02:44|| Front Page Top

#5 It seems to me that the MoH thing would probably be wheeled out for PR, and the SS would probably be the MC's way of saying "Brave, but we don't want you to make a practice of it because there are better ways. And some PR, of course!".

Posted by gorb 2008-03-30 03:20|| 2008-03-30 03:20|| Front Page Top

#6 Still and all, a gutsy move.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-03-30 07:58|| 2008-03-30 07:58|| Front Page Top

#7 Moose, very good advice. I always thought and did the same thing. Just get as flat as you can as fast as you can (terrain depending)...."running" for cover usual is what gets you hurt. But, wow, these young guys are amazing, huh?

Posted by Guillibaldo Thogum8821 2008-03-30 10:34|| 2008-03-30 10:34|| Front Page Top

#8 You guys who are huffing that the Lance Corporal did it all wrong, how about demonstrating it the correct way and posting the video so I can understand. I don't quite get it from your descriptions.

Posted by Titus Cloling7944 2008-03-30 11:05|| 2008-03-30 11:05|| Front Page Top

#9 jumping on it is instinct.

supposed to go flat prone with you helm toward it (your best armor point) and arms tucked under (grab yer nuts is what we were told), so as to present the minimum profile. Used to be feet toward it until the Kpot came around (the old WW2 steel jobs were not all that great against grenades).

Posted by OldSpook 2008-03-30 12:06|| 2008-03-30 12:06|| Front Page Top

#10 The bravery and competence of "Tommy" has never been in question.

However, the politicals, and the military leadership that has allowed itself to be come politicized, those are a different question.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-03-30 12:09|| 2008-03-30 12:09|| Front Page Top

#11 ...how about demonstrating it the correct way and posting the video so I can understand. I don't quite get it from your descriptions.

The physics is, explosions, like water, will follow the path of least resistance. Ground offers more resistance than air. Their will be some dirt removed, simply because of the force of the blast, but a good 80-90% of the explosion goes into the air, carrying shrapnel, dirt and other. This causes a hourglass shape of explosion. The plane of the explosion will be the "waist" and is generally at ground level. That is why the safest place to be is on the ground near an explosion on the ground. The blast will travel some 4-6 inches off the ground and above. That is why proximity fuses on artillery are great. If the round explodes some 4-5 feet off the ground, the hourglass shape doesn't happen and you get a nice sphere. Also, dropping to the dirt won't save your ass anymore. The same idea is used with a "bouncing Betty" anti-personal mine. It jumps up to waist level (3-4 feet) and explodes above the ground, peppering everything around it with shrapnel.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-03-30 12:29|| 2008-03-30 12:29|| Front Page Top

#12 Maybe his Mates were standing up and didn't see the grenade so he jumped on it to keep them from getting hurt. I'd share a foxhole with him.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2008-03-30 13:30|| 2008-03-30 13:30|| Front Page Top

#13 It's never smart to sacrifice oneself to save one's comrades. Which makes doing so even more brave and noble... and dumb if it wasn't necessary. But in this case, one of Lance Corporal Croucher's patrol froze instead of dropping to the ground or getting behind cover, so Cpl Croucher's brave action resulted in the saving of a comrade's life. Although why he decided in that brief moment to lie down on his back on the thing is quite beyond me.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-03-30 14:05|| 2008-03-30 14:05|| Front Page Top

#14 TW, he chose the back because he had a huge backpack, that with the armored vest was enough to absorb the blast, no pack on front, more likely for death or injury, Mighty quick thinker that lad.

Posted by Redneck Jim">Redneck Jim 2008-03-30 15:39|| 2008-03-30 15:39|| Front Page Top

#15 But ... he ruined a perfectly good radio that way! Prob'ly get docked from his pay.

Posted by Brian H">Brian H 2008-03-30 22:31|| 2008-03-30 22:31|| Front Page Top