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2008-12-11 Afghanistan

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Posted by Spot 2008-12-11 11:22|| || Front Page|| [6 views ] Top

#1 Our problem in Iraq until the surge was a lack of focus on a goal (i.e. winning?). It looks like that may be the case in Afghanistan. Tactics is mandatory but you don't often win a battle without a Strategic goal to guide the tactical situation.

This from an NCO so take it for what it's worth.

Posted by tipover 2008-12-11 12:10|| 2008-12-11 12:10|| Front Page Top

#2 Thoughts? Stupid. Stupid because the main battlefield in the WOT is in the propaganda field. Jihadism got an enormous boost after "expelling"
Soviet Union (never mind that it was most about Soviet Union running out of money and that Massoood not the jihadists dis mots of the work). They would get a boost ten times bigger if Maerica ran. Not to mention the message to all allies, to all eople wanting to tell anyting to American forces from the emplacement of an IED to a second 9/11: sooner or later Almerica will abandon you and then it Jihadis will sloooooooowly kill you and your children.

That does not mean that we are doing it welle in Afghanistan.

1) I think that Karzai had been a very bad choice. We thought we needed a Pashtoon but he has been ineffective and also about the first things he did was to reintroduce the Arabs (I remember how he handled the contract of mobile phones to an Arab company within weeks of getting nominated) when what was needed was to promote anti-Arab feelings in Afghanistan. This would have quickly translated into hostility towrds anyone seeming in Arab pocket. I have come to the conclusion that Massod' second (don't remember his name) would habve been a better choice despite being a Tadjik.

2) Main problem in Afgnistan are not the Taliban but the vulnerability of coalition's supply lines through Pakistan. The North-East alternative is at Putin's mercy. Then there is the South-East alternative through Iran.

It is in fact this vulnerability twho could lead to defeat but it would be a catastrophe ten times worse than Vietnam who after Cambodian and Laos dominoes fell lead also to Soviet Unuion setting foot in Angola, Mozambique, Nicaragua just to name a few.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-12-11 12:18|| 2008-12-11 12:18|| Front Page Top

#3 The North-East alternative is at Putin's mercy. Then there is the South-East alternative through Iran

North West and South West. It would be nice if the mullahs fell but you we can't base our plans in Aghnisatan on this.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-12-11 12:21|| 2008-12-11 12:21|| Front Page Top

#4 Klein makes a valid point:

the international humanitarian effort is a shabby, self-righteous mess; some of our NATO allies aren't carrying their share of the military burden

Afghanistan was termed the 'good war' because it had all of the politically-correct, international-cooperation, hold-hands-and-sing-kumbaya, nation-building aspects. Like all other 'good wars' it lacks in execution.

Posted by Pappy 2008-12-11 13:02|| 2008-12-11 13:02|| Front Page Top

#5 The big problem is our logistical vulnerability in Pakistan. We would be better off declaring victory, leaving Afghanistan to govern itself and cleaning up Pakistan. With the switch in administrations Barak Hussein could do this in a way that minimizes the PR difficulties. But it will soon become his war if he doesn't.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-12-11 13:26|| 2008-12-11 13:26|| Front Page Top

#6 The first thing we need to do is to show the Afghanistanis that we can be as mean, evil, wicked, bad, nasty, cruel and heartless as they can, but practice restraint out of a sense of personal dignity. Until we PROVE we can be that vicious, we won't get anywhere. An ARCLIGHT strike on Quetta, a commando raid on Meshud or that idiot that runs the TTP, or the total razing of a village that supports the Taliban, will be essential before we can convince the Pashtuns that we have two options - we can be nice and just fight the Taliban, or we can be a first-class SOB and destroy everything in sight. Which option we choose will be determined by the citizens of Afghanistan.

Karzai has been a total loss, and needs to have an "unfortunate accident". Whether Afghanistan replaces him with another Pashtun, a Tajik, Uzbeckistani, or Korean, is their choice. Our response will be OUR choice. We might even consider reinstating the Zia dynasty. Things worked best when the Zias were in charge.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2008-12-11 15:14|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2008-12-11 15:14|| Front Page Top

#7 Afghanistan is a cluster because of the logistics isse/geography. It is going to take a whole lot longer to "win" there than it has in Iraq.

Karzai is a norco-kleptocrat, nothing more than worthless. We need to sack him and start buring opium fields. That shows our nasty side. We can then assist in infrastructure development to show our nice side. The actions of the Afghans will determine which side we show.

But even with this obvious move, I don't think it is a sustainable operation given that we have to re-supply through enemy territory. Better that we do a diplomatic dance, declare victory and leave. If something wicked this way comes from that part of the world, send in OP's arclight several times over.

Posted by remoteman 2008-12-11 15:48|| 2008-12-11 15:48|| Front Page Top

#8 Like it or not, Afghanistan has become a ward of the state. We can't just declare victory and leave. We need to win.

Dumping the worthless local leader is always attractive, but never works out as well as you hoped. See e.g. Diem.

Killing more bad guys isn't going to do much either. They have a nearly endless supply of cannon fodder, and the big turbans have safe havens in Pakistan.

The way out:

1. Legalize the opium trade -- legal demand worldwide is more than sufficient to buy the entire Afghan crop, so there's no reason to get all worked up about illegal drugs.

2. Kill off the bad guy leadership (ideologues, funders, technical specialists and crime bosses) one by one regardless of where they hang out.

3. Take a page out of the Soviet (and Roman) play book and start bringing a few thousand of Afghanistan's best and brightest here each year for a western education. After 4 years they go back with technical degrees and some spending cash.

We'll start to see results after 5 years and be ready to leave in 10-12.

Posted by Iblis 2008-12-11 16:24|| 2008-12-11 16:24|| Front Page Top

#9 Their culture doesn't seem to understand assistance or help, but they understand and respect power.
Pick a suitable dictator and quit whining about what he has to do to maintain order, I think our obligation to them is more than paid. It should be INCUMBENT on them to do some of the work themselves. Up till now they have done jack squat.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-12-11 17:25|| 2008-12-11 17:25|| Front Page Top

#10 three words: "President Dostum unleashed"

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-12-11 17:44|| 2008-12-11 17:44|| Front Page Top

#11 Find General Dostum. Call him President, El Hefe, whatever and put him in charge. Attach a Special Forces Group as advisors and a squadron of B-52's. Peace will be breaking out in no time at all.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-12-11 19:10|| 2008-12-11 19:10|| Front Page Top

#12 Drink up, Shipman.

Posted by Pappy 2008-12-11 19:27|| 2008-12-11 19:27|| Front Page Top

#13 Q ship

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-12-11 20:08|| 2008-12-11 20:08|| Front Page Top

#14 Iraq was important for the future. Afghanistan was a search and destroy mission.

India should have sway here. If you have to rely on Russians, and our forces are land locked, it is going to be a tough one to maintain.

Objectives there have been silenced. This is now an intel and foreign war. If we can stomach it, I always ask for troops on the ground. Thats my bag. However, this portion of the long war is asymmetric, and this is how we need to apply doctrine.

Iraq is able, Afghanistan and pakistan are 50 year wars alltogether. We have done well in both. But Afghanistan is Russias bag. Pakistan is China.

Iraq is far more of a pinnicale situation and a gainer of respect than trying to build roads for Pashtuns that run across boarders and house with druglords overnight and kill innocent proplr by day.

I was never concerned as much with Cush as I was Babylon. I back it feverently naturally. And I see it's advance as a great addition to Civilization.
'
The Majority want us there and love us. If this is good enough and we would like to progressivly help them, it will spread into the Pashtun region and it will make the world safer for a very long time.

This and Iraq are very good things we have done by GOD.

Need more choppers and troops.
I chomp at the bit to go in unofficial capicity.
Side arm and an ID card is all I need.

This is a stratiegic goal in isolation and / or containment of another local power. Poppies maybe your weapon if you like. look at how the FSB operates in South America -Mexico.

Iran is the last Pin. And green lights are on for removal of Mullahs first and Nukes second.

The ball moves constantantly. Let us not be mired in the path with which it has already rolled.

Yea, still I love them.

Posted by newc">newc 2008-12-11 20:29|| 2008-12-11 20:29|| Front Page Top

#15 Can't see any real reason for being in Afghanistan other than to field-test new military technology. The country is always going to be a medieval hellhole, with not a single miniskirt to be found.

Posted by Thregphak Blamix 2008-12-11 22:38|| 2008-12-11 22:38|| Front Page Top

#16 Iblis, the Romans also used other methods, like decimation of hostile villages.

Line up, every 10th one gets killed then and there. Included killing 1/10 livestock, and burning 1/10 of the buildings in some cases.

Just sayin it werent all education and culture. The blade and torch played their roles as well.

Posted by Zenobia Snusing9687 2008-12-11 22:54|| 2008-12-11 22:54|| Front Page Top

#17 I believe the college girls in Kabul used to wear mini-skirts back before the Russians ran roughshod over the landscape, Thregphak Blamix. So there is a tradition other than moving blue objects.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2008-12-11 22:58|| 2008-12-11 22:58|| Front Page Top

#18 OTOH, see FREEREPUBLIC > US CITIES BRACE FOR MUMBAI-STYLE TERROR ATTACKS.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-12-11 23:04|| 2008-12-11 23:04|| Front Page Top

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