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2009-04-23 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by tu3031 2009-04-23 11:27|| || Front Page|| [9 views ] Top

#1 America will be better off, in the long run, for Obama's decision to expose the past practice of torture and ban its future use. But meanwhile, the country is fighting a war, and it needs to take care that the sunlight of exposure doesn't blind its shadow warriors.

*facepalm*

Posted by Anon4021 2009-04-23 12:11|| 2009-04-23 12:11|| Front Page Top

#2 FacePalm, no disrespect, but where do you stand? Do you advocate for ending water-boarding or not?

It seems to me that most of the people decrying water-boarding as "torture" are so insulated from the harsh physical realities 99% of the world live under, that they are incapable of understanding or issuing a moral judgment of what torture really is. Starvation, child abuse and slavery, things that would horrify the political class here, are so common in the third world as to not elicit special notice. Sawing off heads is torture, mutilation, the rack, those things are torture. Water-boarding is not torture. Our political elite and their symboligists in the main stream media live lives sheltered by affluence and remote from any real risk or harm, beyond they own self destructive impulses (drugs, etc.). I do not depend upon their opinions or rationalizations for my protection. Nor should you. Wars are bloody businesses. You either win or disappear as a civilization. Asking others to subsidize your presumed moral superiority is cowardice.

Posted by BlackCat 2009-04-23 13:27|| 2009-04-23 13:27|| Front Page Top

#3 Well put, Black Cat. We are definitely on the same page here. Furthermore, I'd like to add that in the cases where we did waterboard detainees (all TWO of them), the "procedure" some have likened to drowning was only applied between 20-40 seconds at a time. If waterboarding does indeed simulate drowning, couldn't one be reasonably expected to hold their breath for 20-40 seconds at a time to counteract the effects of simulated drowning? And assuming they did so, how is that torture?

In any case, this is all nothing but a witch hunt against the very people who were desperately trying to keep us safe during incredibly trying times and demanding circumstances. What the Obama administration is doing here is nothing short of a travesty. It makes my blood boil. And if they really think they can get away with not releasing the memos that detail the intelligence that was gathered as a result of waterboarding, than I believe they will pay a very heavy price for their blatant politicization of a major, nay critical, national security issue. At the least, it will be a price paid at the polling booth and at worst, I fear it may be a price paid in American lives. Shame on you, President Obama. I hoped that you had more backbone than that but I'm glad I never believed you did because it saves me the disappointment.

On a related note, I've about had it with this "waterboarding IS torture" nonsense. Give me a break. In fact, I've actually considered offering up myself to be waterboarded on live TV for all the world to see if it would put an end to the whole silly debate. I'm willing to subject myself to a few minutes of gross discomfort and exceeding unpleasantness if it keeps us safer. I mean if Christopher Hitchens can make it through the ordeal alive and no worse for wear, it can't be all that bad, right?

Now that I think about it, perhaps this could be the basis for a non-profit, PAC, whatever... that invites people to sign up to get waterboarded in order to show their support for our national security policy during the Bush administration and refute the current administration's stance on the issue. I can see it now, a gathering on the mall, people are all lined up, and after you get waterboarded, you get a free t-shirt or bumper sticker for your pain and suffering, not to mention the satisfaction that you just contributed to the safety and well-being of all Americans. I think we could have a lot of fun with the t-shirts and bumper stickers.

So am I crazy or might this actually be a good idea?

Posted by eltoroverde 2009-04-23 15:35|| 2009-04-23 15:35|| Front Page Top

#4 I think it's a brilliant idea, eltoreverde. I suspect it would be a big hit if offered to college fraternities and after football team practices, for a start. It would have to be run by experts, with a doctor and psychologist standing by for those who really couldn't handle the experience, but it would certainly appeal to the macho of both sexes and all genders. (Actually, I'm not quite sure what all the genders are, but that's ok -- the previous statement covers even my very real ignorance.)

BlackCat, I think the Anon4021's facepalm marks frustration with the stupidity of the bit copied to the post. Anon4021 has been posting here since before Mr. Pruitt invented his clever anonymizer with all the wonderful names.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2009-04-23 17:28|| 2009-04-23 17:28|| Front Page Top

#5 As an aside to this discussion, in which I overwhelmingly come down on the side of Jack Bauer in these matters, folks have wondered about the interestin about face that Zero made on this topic.
The calculus behind that change of position was precisely what has happened....
The evil Bush-Hitler/Cheney/Halliburton devils remain in the public arean to be flogged, and nobody notices the enormous failures in the making for this bank/auto manufacturer nationalization plan unfolding before our eyes.
The government will elect the board of directors for all of our major banks, making the entire credit market a slave to public policy this administration directs...
You don't need programs when the only sources of credit make ACORN creditworthy for private deposits. They effectively control the entire economy this way. Think about it, if your proposed housing project isn't green enough, no money. Want to buy a homehave you done enough volunteer service for the right folks?...
This is the real threat....the torture debate, sound and fury to feed the media and keep the citizens riled up at the evils of conservatives....

Posted by NoMoreBS 2009-04-23 18:21|| 2009-04-23 18:21|| Front Page Top

#6 The CIA are good people. I know this. And they are pissed off. Crossword puzzle time from one of the worlds premier risk manager. I wonder what the DNI has to say?
Throttled am I.

Red light, Red Light, Red Light!

Posted by newc">newc 2009-04-23 21:05|| 2009-04-23 21:05|| Front Page Top

#7 I suspect there's a good many folks at Klingon Main that voted for Barry. They certainly had little good to say about President Bush. I say....Chickens home to roost.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-04-23 21:16|| 2009-04-23 21:16|| Front Page Top

#8 Front room is not back room, and do not talk about fight club.

Posted by newc">newc 2009-04-23 23:37|| 2009-04-23 23:37|| Front Page Top

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