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2011-12-14 Economy
The Entire Futures/Options Market Has Been Destroyed by the MF Global Collapse
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Posted by tipper 2011-12-14 03:00|| || Front Page|| [11132 views ]  Top

#1 That really cheered me up. Kiss your savings goodbye.
Posted by Bobby 2011-12-14 06:21||   2011-12-14 06:21|| Front Page Top

#2 "your savings goodbye" Like property, they just loan it to you. The Fed has not protected the value of our money. What are charge cards now 25-30% inte4rest. Banks can barrow at near zero interest. Checking or savings account interest about 1% interest. When you keep a savings accout now in the bank you are losing money. New crime wave is getting your bank account money. So we have our government and occoupy types coming after us. Any perceived value is target now.
Posted by Dale 2011-12-14 07:27||   2011-12-14 07:27|| Front Page Top

#3 What we need is more regulation seeing.as it has always worked so well in the past.
Posted by gorb 2011-12-14 07:33||   2011-12-14 07:33|| Front Page Top

#4 As a good Marxist Obama just knows economics is a zero sum game so all those with surpluses must have robbed someone and it's only just that the state nationalises them, or they get used for the public good, by the dear leaders friends.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-12-14 08:30||   2011-12-14 08:30|| Front Page Top

#5 Don't think "more regulation". Think "fair regulation". The problem has not been more or less regulation, but that it is not been applied fairly or wisely.

Government has negatively horned in to the process in two ways, forcing business to make bad business decisions based on idealistic economic directives; and protecting business from the consequences of their bad business decisions.

The alternative is to going back to *not* requiring business to make bad decisions, and *not* protecting them from market forces when they do so on their own.

For example, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac were required by Bawnie Fwank to make home loans to people who should never have been given home loans, based on their financial viability. But then, when Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac were ruined by this, the government "had" to bail them out.

Another example is government efforts to require insurance companies to provide insurance that would never be given otherwise. And this applies to most kinds of insurance, not just health and flood insurance.

The permutations of this are cancerous, and always result in favoritism to one business over its competitors. It also sustains monopolies and oligopolies, protecting them from the market forces that would destroy them.

So the most important thing is to get big government out of the way, to get them to stop interfering trying to defy reason, logic and reality.

Only *after* that point is regulation even a consideration. It exists to prevent unfair exploitation of consumers by business. So its purpose is just a fraction of how it is applied today.
Posted by Anonymoose 2011-12-14 09:32||   2011-12-14 09:32|| Front Page Top

#6 Looks like J.P.Morgan could be up to their necks in this.
Posted by tipper 2011-12-14 10:36||   2011-12-14 10:36|| Front Page Top

#7  What are charge cards now 25-30% inte4rest.

Dale, that's really quite an overstatement.

Overall, the average annual percentage rate (APR) for credit cards of all types fell to 14.98% in November.

The average APR for low interest cards is 10.6%. Average rates for other types of cards ranged up to 15.5% for higher risk, instant approval cards.

Average initial rates as of last week are listed here. As the chart shows, credit card rates are the same as or very slightly above those of 6 months ago on a category - by - category basis.

Only cards issued to people with extremely bad credit ratings averaged 25% - and that rate has been unchanged for some time.
Posted by lotp 2011-12-14 12:04||   2011-12-14 12:04|| Front Page Top

#8 ---- Government has negatively horned in to the process in two ways, forcing business to make bad business decisions based on idealistic economic directives; and protecting business from the consequences of their bad business decisions.
MoFo Global's implosion is solely related to the last half of that statement. Jon Corzine pushed his business over the edge & probably misappropriated hundreds of millions of dollars because he knew he could get away with it. None of the abuses in this case or in the futures/options markets were forced by government action.
--- What would be the consequences of having no futures / options markets at all?
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-12-14 13:41||   2011-12-14 13:41|| Front Page Top

#9 From my simple understanding of F/O markets, they serve to disclose values of commodities & debts at a given moment & for the future, to the best extent possible. This disclosure enables investors to have a little more confidence when risking their savings. The market no longer discloses accurate prices, and investors are leaving in droves. From Zerohedge: Separate risk from gain, obliterate transparency and choke the market with zero interest rates, and you've not only destroyed capitalism, you've also destroyed the economy by rewarding the most venal, corrupt, fraudulent and capital-destroying players while stranding the prudent on an island of opacity where the true price of assets, credit and risk cannot be discovered.
That is how government action/inaction is promoting this destruction.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-12-14 14:00||   2011-12-14 14:00|| Front Page Top

#10 * "Destroyed by the MF Global collapse" > thats a stretch for one to believe.

* "The Markets no longer give accurate prices" - IMO you mean stable, non-flux or LT prices.


Broadly true, but IMO only because the POTUS Bammer Admin = USA is failing to denote to US Investors + Corporations WHAT NEW MARKETS IS WALL STREET + US SMALL BUSINESS GETTING ACCESS TO AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE US-LED GWOT.

HARD OR SOFT, OPEN OR COVERT, GOVT. OR FREE MARKET/PRIVATE SECTOR, one has to give the economics of imperialism its due.

Right now, US individual + organized investors as a class have tremendous uncertainty as to LT US intentions or presence in all of these unstable Countries + Regions. THATS THE FAULT OF WASHINGTON, POTUS BAMMER + THE CONGRESSCRITTERS, NOT THE MARKETS.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-12-14 19:34||   2011-12-14 19:34|| Front Page Top

#11 Lotp I haven't had a charge card for years now but just repeated what others have experienced. Some have even had their credit limits reduced. Then others have been discontinued because of lack of use. I say again that the Fed is not protecting the value of the our currency. As I recall in 1970 their powers or responsibilities were expanded, hence our current dilemma.
Posted by Dale 2011-12-14 20:13||   2011-12-14 20:13|| Front Page Top

#12 "What are charge cards now 25-30% interest."

The interest is 0% if you pay it off every month.

Except for true emergencies (and wanting a new pair of shoes or a new drill - when the old one works fine - are NOT emergencies), if you can't pay it off each month, you shouldn't be charging in the first place. Treat your credit card as though it's a debit card (but with someone between access to your bank account and the thief who took your card).
Posted by Barbara 2011-12-14 20:33||   2011-12-14 20:33|| Front Page Top

#13 AH spot on as always. I believe the information on just about everything is just a bunch of lies and more lies. They manipulate information to suit their needs.
My first post was confusing. I had brain fog. I try to say in the fewest words possible what I wish to express. Like speed reading it may not flow smoothly at times.
Posted by Dale 2011-12-14 20:45||   2011-12-14 20:45|| Front Page Top

#14 Barbara yes. I know a man hounded to take $30,000 interest free for thirty days. He took it and invested the money. He made a good return and paid them off. Not everyone could pull that off. He has a store with gaming machines. Welfare people mostly spend what money they are given. If they can't play they sell him anything they have of value to keep playing. When they win they tip the attendant very well, like they are high rollers. He grew up in an inner city home for boys. Street wise, successful devoted family man.
Posted by Dale 2011-12-14 20:56||   2011-12-14 20:56|| Front Page Top

#15 Best to invest in precious metals: brass, lead and blued steel.
Posted by Canuckistan sniper 2011-12-14 21:09||   2011-12-14 21:09|| Front Page Top

#16 Canuckistan sniper, hard to live like that. 24/7 on constant alert. Hope it doesn't come to that.
Posted by Dale 2011-12-14 21:38||   2011-12-14 21:38|| Front Page Top

23:59 Capsu78
23:26 swksvolFF
23:21 3dc
22:44 swksvolFF
22:41 trailing wife
22:33 Frank G
22:31 Charles
22:27 gorb
22:25 JosephMendiola
22:24 trailing wife
22:24 gorb
22:20 JosephMendiola
22:19 Charles
22:17 JosephMendiola
22:09 JosephMendiola
22:02 JosephMendiola
21:58 Charles
21:56 JosephMendiola
21:50 JosephMendiola
21:45 JosephMendiola
21:40 JosephMendiola
21:38 Dale
21:16 Anguper Hupomosing9418
21:09 Glath Schwarzeneggar2126









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