Article

2015-12-01 Iraq

Former Military Intel Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS

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Posted by Besoeker 2015-12-01 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11133 views ] Top
File under: Islamic State

#1 Abandoning the battlefield to the enemy was the main factor in the rise of ISIS. Whomever is supporting them knew American pols did not have the stomach for the kind of fight ISIS would bring.

Neither did their supporters/paymasters.

Posted by badanov 2015-12-01 00:26|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2015-12-01 00:26|| Front Page Top

#2 Lets be specific...Maliki created the conditions for ISIS birth by provoking the Ahl al Sunna. He was enabled by the deliberate indifference of President Obama when Obama first signaled his weakness by caving to Maliki on the detainee Daqduq issue. Sensing this weakness Maliki followed up by telling Obama that he was going to arrest the Sunni VP and his body guards... Pissed off the Sunni and Maliki reaped the consequences...

Posted by Tennessee 2015-12-01 01:12|| 2015-12-01 01:12|| Front Page Top

#3 See also WORLD NEWS > OBAMA ADMMINISTRATION'S GUN-RUNNING WAS ARMING ISIS.

Artic read = the "Fast-N-Furious", etc. smuggling schemes NOT starring Vin Diesel or Michelle Rodriquez + Friends.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2015-12-01 01:17|| 2015-12-01 01:17|| Front Page Top

#4 Better late than never.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-12-01 01:26|| 2015-12-01 01:26|| Front Page Top

#5 LtGen Flynn NEVER commanded ANY SF units. He was NOT SF. He was intel and his last job was HMFIC at DIA.

Maybe it's just me but when journos fail at biography 101, I tend to dismiss what follows.

I do like the muslims killing muslims angle though.

Posted by Bangkok Billy 2015-12-01 07:32|| 2015-12-01 07:32|| Front Page Top

#6 GWBs main mistake was thinking he could build Switzerland in the Muzzie world.

The shampoo strategy needed a try out.....lather, rinse repeat as necessary.

Posted by AlanC 2015-12-01 07:58|| 2015-12-01 07:58|| Front Page Top

#7 Quibble point: the conclusion of the Iraq war, etc.
Adequate start, poor follow through.

Posted by ed in texas 2015-12-01 08:15|| 2015-12-01 08:15|| Front Page Top

#8 "As brutal as Saddam Hussein was, it was a mistake to just eliminate him," Flynn went on to say. "The same is true for Moammar Gadhafi and for Libya, which is now a failed state. The historic lesson is that it was a strategic failure to go into Iraq. History will not be and should not be kind with that decision."

System administrators and bureaucrats always value stability above all else.

Posted by Pappy 2015-12-01 08:57|| 2015-12-01 08:57|| Front Page Top

#9 Gee, things were peachy keen when Obama and Biden were crowing about the success before pulling everything out. See - rewriting history. The Instaprof has a series making sure that record doesn't go down the memory hole.

BTW, IIRC the historian AJP Taylor blamed the US for WWII cause we didn't hang around, join the League of Nations, etc at the end of WWI. Just another version of that gambit.

Remember we sat on the Germans and Japanese many years afterward and had to deal with Soviet subversion at the same time. Someone this time didn't have the patience.

Posted by Procopius2k 2015-12-01 09:03|| 2015-12-01 09:03|| Front Page Top

#10 A similar thing happened in Yugoslavia. Dictator kept the tribes from killing each other. Remove the dictator and tribes resume centuries old conflict.

W's Democracy idea was noble and assumed the best of a people who proved lacking.

Posted by rjschwarz 2015-12-01 10:54|| 2015-12-01 10:54|| Front Page Top

#11 I wanted to believe that Bush was right. Back then I wanted to believe in something. I still do. I still think maybe it was right to kill Saddam because he took a shot at Bush Sr. and tin pot dictators the world over need to know that taking a shot at POTUS will get them killed. Besides, after 9/11 we had to take it out on somebody. Saddam was handy.

And maybe it was a noble experiment to see if democracy could actually take root in an Arab/Muslim nation. So now we know better.

Bush's mistake was the assumption that his successor would maintain a military presence there. He should have factored into his calculations the irresponsibility of Democrats. And Iraq is not Germany or Japan. They just don't have that kind of character.

But this point I no longer care whether the Arab world is stable or not. Let them figure it out. They're not worth any more or our blood and treasure. Just keep the damn refugees out of here.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2015-12-01 11:32|| 2015-12-01 11:32|| Front Page Top

#12 This narrative forgets that Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and even Turkey had a major stake in making sure Iraq did not turn into a democracy. All of them had their fingers in the pie, and W did not warn them off.

If you are going to change the Middle East, you're going to have to go in balls to the wall and be there for a generation.

Al

Posted by frozen al 2015-12-01 12:36|| 2015-12-01 12:36|| Front Page Top

#13 This is blaming bush crap yet again. ISIS is just another head of this multi headed dragon. We are not fighting Isis or aq or isil We are fighting the Islamic cancer that is creeping west. Europe is on its way through becoming the next Beirut and we are still playing Waco a mole with named factions that mean nothing. Until we define the enemy and meet them with a greater level of violence we will soon be Islamic.

Posted by 49 pan 2015-12-01 12:44|| 2015-12-01 12:44|| Front Page Top

#14 Let's see - regime change in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya was a bad idea. Well, we can all see how it's worked out so far. Libya was on Champ's watch, I believe.

But Champ is still pushing regime change in Syria? And he expects he's going to get Putin to dump his buddy, Assad? And if Assad goes down, who does Champ think will pick up the pieces, George Washington (Carver)?

Posted by Bobby 2015-12-01 13:12|| 2015-12-01 13:12|| Front Page Top

#15 W's Democracy idea was noble and assumed the best of a people who proved lacking.

I feel like the will to *win* vanished far too early. The destruction of war should have continued until the will to resist us ceased to exist. Only then would a democracy had any chance to emerge.

Posted by Crusader 2015-12-01 13:27|| 2015-12-01 13:27|| Front Page Top

#16 Chaos after Saddam was predicted by Rumsfeld - c.f. the J curve and the wise advice that the quicker you descend through the chaos the sooner a new stability could be brought into being.

Colin Powell, State Dept. and the Demo insisted on trying to impose stability via a massive bureaucratic Coalition Provisional Authority, which busied itself devising new currenCy etc before the Iraqis had committed to becoming a country. Powell and his supporters have a lot to account for.

Posted by Wheagum the Rasher of Bacon8442 2015-12-01 14:11|| 2015-12-01 14:11|| Front Page Top

#17 "I feel like the will to *win* vanished far too early. The destruction of war should have continued until the will to resist us ceased to exist. Only then would a democracy had any chance to emerge."

Ditto. My 2c, two crucial matters GWB and his orbit failed to address:

1- They failed to attack Islam as the political movement masquerading as a religion that it is

2- They failed to bring the nation as a whole into the fight, resolved to compel the enemy to surrender (renounce his will to aggress) and occupy his heartland, Iraq, until his women share the rights, status and activities of full citizenship and his men let their children grow in peace and quiet.

They were right to hit Saddam. He was behind both attacks on the WTC as well as the DOD and anthrax attacks. But they were not serious about the larger enemy or the depth and breadth of his order of battle. They essayed to fight a global war against an enemy they failed to define -- but knew they were fighting -- with < 1% of their population, encouraging > 99% to live unconnected to the < 1% who were fighting, as if at peace. This is called being not serious.

GWB is a good man who had numerous bad advisers and as POTUS was unequal to the responsibilities powers of being threw at him.

My 2c.

Posted by TopRev 2015-12-01 14:31|| 2015-12-01 14:31|| Front Page Top

#18 An essay on statecraft that connects the compulsion of surrender with the necessity of occupation ("culture-splicing" I call it) and contemplates a nascent grand strategic goal and structure: http://theological-geography.net/?p=21909

Posted by TopRev 2015-12-01 14:44|| 2015-12-01 14:44|| Front Page Top

#19 Iraqi Shi'ite militias pledge to fight US forces if deployed

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-12-01 15:16|| 2015-12-01 15:16|| Front Page Top

#20 But they were not serious about the larger enemy

And here, in a nutshell, is the past, current and future problem.

The larger enemy is Islam and all it entails. The west will not say that and the elites in there land of pink unicorns will never even see it.

Short of glazing the Muslim world I don't know what can be done but I'm sure that if we had the will we would find a way. Whatever way was found would require a clear statement of who the enemy is....and it ain't "terrorism".

Posted by AlanC 2015-12-01 15:23|| 2015-12-01 15:23|| Front Page Top

#21 If the Iraqi Shia would fight us rather than assist us in fighting ISIS then I see no reason to do anything more than provide ammo to both sides and sit back and eat popcorn.

Posted by Glenmore 2015-12-01 15:48|| 2015-12-01 15:48|| Front Page Top

#22 provide ammo to both sides

Let Saudis & Iranians, respectively, pay for the ammo

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-12-01 16:05|| 2015-12-01 16:05|| Front Page Top

#23 Who speaketh of Davies and his J Curve?

Posted by Ominous1 2015-12-01 17:06|| 2015-12-01 17:06|| Front Page Top

#24 They tried to take a pot shot at Dad.
That's all you need to know.

Don't mess with Texans.

Posted by Shipman 2015-12-01 17:09|| 2015-12-01 17:09|| Front Page Top

#25 Don't mess with Texans.

A shimmering limerick beckons, way off in the swamp. Texterminated... Erminated. I'll be right back. [cue "Chloe"]

Posted by Zenobia Floger6220 2015-12-01 17:52|| 2015-12-01 17:52|| Front Page Top

#26 OTOH LUCIANNE > [US,USDOD] TOP US MILITARY OFFICER CONTRADICTS OBAMA, SAYS ISIS "NOT CONTAINED".

US JCS Chair Gen. Joseph Dunforth, USMC before the House Armed Services Cmte alongside US DefSec Ashton Carter.

"NOT CONTAINED" = GUESS WE KNOW WHY THE ISIS + ALIGNED JIHAD WILL BE HITTING EUROPE + AMERIKA SOON ENUFF.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2015-12-01 22:41|| 2015-12-01 22:41|| Front Page Top

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