Article

2022-06-10 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

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Posted by badanov 2022-06-10 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11 views ] Top

#1 The Narrative has flipped. Ukraine is getting pulverized.

Here's the new Narrative from Britain's Ministry of Defence and MI6, as mouthed by The Independent:

OUTGUNNED, DEMORALISED, DESERTING
"Ukraine forces outgunned up to 40 to one by Russian forces, intelligence report reveals... Exclusive: Grinding conflict in east is ‘seriously demoralising’ Ukrainian forces, dossier says.

UKRAINIANS ARE COMPLETELY OUTGUNNED
"A report by Ukrainian and Western intelligence officials also reveals that the Ukrainians are facing huge difficulties responding to Russians shelling with their artillery restricted to a range of 25 kilometres, while the enemy can strike from 12 times that distance.

UKRAINIAN MORALE IS COLLAPSING
"For the first time since the war began, there is now concern over desertion. The report, seen by The Independent, says the worsening situation in the Donbas, with up to a hundred soldiers being killed a day, is having “a seriously demoralising effect on Ukrainian forces as well as a very real material effect; cases of desertion are growing every week”.

UKRAINIAN NEGOTIATING POSITION IS WEAKENING
"At the same time, as the Russians capture territories in the east, and consolidate their control over the seized cities of Mariupol and Kherson, the bargaining position of the Ukrainian government is being weakened by acute disparity in the numbers of prisoners being held by each side.

"The total number of Russian soldiers being held by Ukraine has fallen to 550 from 900 in April after a series of exchanges. Moscow meanwhile has more than 5,600 Ukrainian troops in captivity, the figure enlarged by the surrender of 2,500, including members of the Azov Battalion, in Mariupol...."

Posted by Palmerston 2022-06-10 06:47|| 2022-06-10 06:47|| Front Page Top

#2 ^ MoD report appeared yesterday and was shown by MoD to The Independent editors.

Link to the Independent's exclusive article is here

Posted by Palmerston 2022-06-10 06:51|| 2022-06-10 06:51|| Front Page Top

#3 Over at The Telegraph, a "leaked Ukrainian and Western intelligence report" confirms that "Ukraine’s soldiers face 200 daily casualties with desertion on the rise...Shortage of long-range missiles means depleted Ukrainian forces at risk of being fully encircled by Russian offensive in Donbas"

"Cases of desertion are growing every week in the Ukrainian army, according to a leaked intelligence report, as up to 200 of its outgunned soldiers are being killed every day in the eastern Donbas region.

OUTNUMBERED AND OUTGUNNED
Kyiv’s troops are outnumbered 20 to one in artillery and 40 to one in ammunition by the Kremlin’s forces in the area, the leaked Ukrainian intelligence report reveals.

"Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior aide to the Ukrainian president, on Thursday said the battle over the war-torn country’s industrial heartlands was so intense that Kyiv is suffering up to 200 military casualties per day. The previous upper limit was given as 100 soldiers. Russia has managed to gain the upper hand in the Donbas because of its superior long-range weaponry.

"GIVE US MORE. NOW!"
Mr Podolyak said Ukraine’s armed forces need donations of hundreds of the most powerful artillery systems to compete with Moscow’s forces, not the handful being sent by Western governments.

"The intelligence dossier, drawn up by Ukrainian and Western officials, warns of the growing risk of demoralised Ukrainian soldiers going AWOL...."

Posted by Palmerston 2022-06-10 07:02|| 2022-06-10 07:02|| Front Page Top

#4 Doom and gloom, all over the BBC:

Foreign fighters sentenced and Putin upbeat on energy

Families urge immediate help for condemned UK pair

Ukraine losing up to 200 troops a day - Zelensky aide

Putin: West unlikely to reject our energy for years

Zelensky ties fate of east Ukraine to city battle

Posted by Fleatch Gurly-Brown6632 2022-06-10 07:27|| 2022-06-10 07:27|| Front Page Top

#5 wow.

Very prolifically linked comments 10 minutes apart. Almost as if they were prepared talking points, Amirite? Take the weekend off, Comrades. You have done well.

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-10 07:39|| 2022-06-10 07:39|| Front Page Top

#6 Why are you still here, Frank?

Aiden Aslin's unit needs to replace him with another idiot mercenary. Your odds aren't bad... only a 60 percent casualty rate!

Suit up & ship out. Go get 'em, Rambo-Frankie

Posted by Clyde Fleart8195 2022-06-10 08:09|| 2022-06-10 08:09|| Front Page Top

#7 as if they were prepared talking points, Amirite?

Pathetic. That's the report from Ukrainian and western intelligence sources.

Get out of your bubble, comrade. The war's nearly over. It was a lost cause from the start, but now it's another Iraq-style debacle.

Quit being so fucking stupid and admit what even our propagandists at MoD are admitting. They're sending you a message. Listen for once.

Posted by Palmerston 2022-06-10 08:12|| 2022-06-10 08:12|| Front Page Top

#8 ~~And don't be such a whiny bitch.~~ If you can make the case for prolonging this horror show, go for it. But you're on your own.

Everyone's getting ready to cut the Ukrainians loose. Biden's people have their loot and have moved on. Johnson's donevwith them. The French and Germans ignore the little puppet altogether and are talking directly to the Kremlin.

It's over, run along now. We have bigger things to worry about on the home front

Make your point without the name calling. The ice you are on is getting thinner.

Posted by Palmerston 2022-06-10 08:27|| 2022-06-10 08:27|| Front Page Top

#9 Battle for the Donbas: Russia beats back Ukrainian counter-attacks in Severodonetsk with heavy artillery - as Ukraine armed forces chief admits they are facing 'catastrophic' lack of munitions

Posted by Skidmark 2022-06-10 11:43|| 2022-06-10 11:43|| Front Page Top

#10 The point is that Ukraine has obviously lost and the West's blame game has begun.

By suddenly putting out tons of catastrophic indicators, the British and American military and intelligence establishments are preparing the public for defeat. The sub-narrative of "outgunned" is designed to give the policymakers a convenient excuse for their failed, disastrous decisions.

Where all the billions actually went -- into whose pockets -- is of course not explained.

The PanamaPapers will give you a good idea of likely locations favored by the Ukrainian thieves

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-10 12:55|| 2022-06-10 12:55|| Front Page Top

#11 Make your point without the name calling. The ice you are on is getting thinner.

That's ironic coming from a Russian but, yes, we could use a bit more civility here.

Your claims of victory are understandable but perhaps a bit premature. Right now it looks like Russia has momentum but claiming victory before the fat lady sings could lead to embarrassment.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-06-10 13:10|| 2022-06-10 13:10|| Front Page Top

#12 Badanov is a nickname. He's a gringo

Posted by Frank G 2022-06-10 13:19|| 2022-06-10 13:19|| Front Page Top

#13 The PanamaPapers will give you a good idea of likely locations favored by the Ukrainian thieves

By contract, the prime location is DC.

Posted by badanov 2022-06-10 13:19|| 2022-06-10 13:19|| Front Page Top

#14 We lied to the Ukrainians -- poke the bear, try to snatch Crimea, and we'll back you all the way! -- and they've been lying to the world ever since. "Ghost of Kyiv," no Nazis here, fake war crimes, "evacuation" of Mariupol, taking back Severodonetsk... All of it bullshit.

The ridiculous lying about casualties was the tell.

Since the war shifted east, the Ukrainian never had fewer than 100 killed in a day. The detailed and precise Russian after action reports indicate that the real number is in the neighborhood of 400-600 killed per day. And then the bizarre NY Times story complaining about being "kept in the dark."

This is like the Iraq War, the Afghan War and the Vietnam War rolled into one shit sundae

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-10 13:20|| 2022-06-10 13:20|| Front Page Top

#15 Your claims of victory are understandable but perhaps a bit premature.

How can Ukraine be said to have won after they've lost 90% of their productive territory? They are 100% dependent now on US and EU subsidies.

They have next to nothing left -- next to no industry, no technology, no mining or O&G reserves. Literally all of the truly valuable and strategic provinces are gone -- for good.

And all of their wealth and territory, all of it, could have been preserved if Zelensky had not walked away from Minsk II.

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-10 13:29|| 2022-06-10 13:29|| Front Page Top

#16 Badanov is a nickname. He's a gringo

I knew I shoulda stuck with Call of Duty.

Posted by badanov 2022-06-10 13:32|| 2022-06-10 13:32|| Front Page Top

#17 ^ taken already, by Aiden Aslin. It will be available soon tho

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-10 13:38|| 2022-06-10 13:38|| Front Page Top

#18 They have next to nothing left -- next to no industry, no technology, no mining or O&G reserves. Literally all of the truly valuable and strategic provinces are gone -- for good.

They still have Biden. Shots are still being fired and nobody is talking about peace. Sverodonetsk is still in contention and the pincer has not yet closed. Don't get cocky, kid. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

And try to be a bit more civil.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-06-10 14:11|| 2022-06-10 14:11|| Front Page Top

#19 "Don't get cocky"

? WTF? Who are you addressing? This is the view of Ukrainian and Western intelligence. They're the ones who are putting out all the evidence that Ukraine is fucked

Posted by Billy Budd 2022-06-10 17:17|| 2022-06-10 17:17|| Front Page Top

#20 This is the view of Ukrainian and Western intelligence

And if you can't believe Ukrainian and Western intelligence, who just up to last Wednesday or so were telling us the complete opposite, then who can you believe?

Posted by SteveS 2022-06-10 20:50|| 2022-06-10 20:50|| Front Page Top

#21 This is the view of Ukrainian and Western intelligence.

As leaked, anonymously or not, to various members of the established news media in order to shape the perceptions of friends, foes, civilians, and political masters alike.

How I miss the good old days when intelligence agencies understood their job to be collecting information and keeping it in-house, to be shared only with their civilian masters qnd occasionally with the military.

Posted by trailing wife 2022-06-10 21:04|| 2022-06-10 21:04|| Front Page Top

#22 Why the change?
1. Their bullshit no longer cons anyone
2. The collapse is certain now--time to shift blame
3. They've got their loot already and are washing their hands
4. Democrats & Deep state are done w Ukraine and have moved into ejection mode: it's all J6 / Trump / Abortion / Gun Violence until November

Posted by Fester Ulineter4632 2022-06-10 21:09|| 2022-06-10 21:09|| Front Page Top

#23 ~~ejection~~ election mode

Posted by Fester Ulineter4632 2022-06-10 21:10|| 2022-06-10 21:10|| Front Page Top

23:21 Palmerston
23:19 Palmerston
23:16 DarthVader
23:06 Palmerston
22:47 trailing wife
22:42 trailing wife
22:34 Seeking Cure For Ignorance
21:57 Rex Mundi
21:19 Muggsy Crereling7492
21:15 Muggsy Crereling7492
21:11 Thing From Snowy Mountain
21:10 Fester Ulineter4632
21:09 Fester Ulineter4632
21:08 newc
21:04 trailing wife
20:53 trailing wife
20:50 SteveS
20:40 trailing wife
20:36 trailing wife
20:15 Frank G
19:53 jpal
19:49 jpal
19:26 M. Murcek
19:18 Thing From Snowy Mountain