Article

2023-04-28 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

NATO allies send 1,500 combat vehicles, 230 tanks to Ukraine

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Posted by Fred 2023-04-28 00:00|| || Front Page|| [9 views ] Top
File under: Tin Hat Dictators, Presidents for Life, & Kleptocrats

#1 You have to love theater, although the price on these tickets seems a might high. That said it must be admitted it will play to middle aged white women and similar imbecilic acolytes like prescription drugs.

Sure is reassuring to know there aren't any issues with, oh, I don't know...learning how to so much as drive the big expensive scary tanks much less develop individual and crew proficiency. Marksmanship? Ha, they don't need it on Youtube or tv news.

What must I be thinking? This is the Ukraine! Suit those lads up and a couple of times around the block, or at least ruins and it's death to Ivan.

Posted by Cesare 2023-04-28 07:35|| 2023-04-28 07:35|| Front Page Top

#2 NATO's gonna stand shoulder to shoulder and fight to the last Ukrainian.

Posted by ed in texas 2023-04-28 09:48|| 2023-04-28 09:48|| Front Page Top

#3 Sure is reassuring to know there aren't any issues with, oh, I don't know...learning how to so much as drive the big expensive scary tanks much less develop individual and crew proficiency. Marksmanship? Ha, they don't need it on Youtube or tv news.

Cesare,

Valid points - the good news here is that as far as the 'combat vehicles' go, we're talking HUMMER/Jeep equivalents or Soviet era APCs. Those were designed so that anyone with basic hand/eye coordination should be able to drive one within a relatively short time of meeting it.

The tanks may be another story - the majority of the tanks going there are ex-Soviet rides; they know how to teach/operate them. The Leopards, Challengers, and Abrams...hopefully the Ukranians sent their best and brightest.

My concern about all of this is the logistics trail needed to keep the MBTs running. The Abrams especially are intended to operate at the end of a fully stocked supply line and run on different fuels than the others (Yes, the M1 will run on moonshine if that's all you got, but it won't do it for long.). I don't think ammo (both main gun and secondary) is standardized across the different MBTs, so that's going to be an issue too.

I think as far as the Western gear goes, the Ukranians will operate it intelligently and well...but as soon as the little red lights come on, they're in trouble.

Mike

Posted by MikeKozlowski 2023-04-28 10:01|| 2023-04-28 10:01|| Front Page Top

#4 Most of this stuff was decommissioned and gathering dust in warehouses. If the Ukrainians want to take over disposal duties and maybe kill some Russians in the bargain, let 'em.

Posted by Angstrom 2023-04-28 11:05|| 2023-04-28 11:05|| Front Page Top

#5 230 tanks is not enough for a broad counteroffensive

it might support some smaller advance to get the Russians to retreat on a broader scale

Posted by lord garth 2023-04-28 11:35|| 2023-04-28 11:35|| Front Page Top

#6 Leopard 2s and Abrams both use the Rheinmetal 120mm smoothbore.

Posted by badanov 2023-04-28 11:47|| 2023-04-28 11:47|| Front Page Top

#7 230 tanks is not enough for a broad counteroffensive

Broad? No. Very effective armored fist through. Combine that with all the gear that they captured at Izium that has been undergoing refurbishing all this time and then it looks better.

The Ukrainians now have a western equipped and trained mechanized infantry corps. We'll see how well they use it.

Posted by DarthVader 2023-04-28 11:49|| 2023-04-28 11:49|| Front Page Top

#8 I take it NATO bigwigs have determined an adequate number of qualified Ukrainians will be available to operate all this new hardware. I mean, surely the likes of the esteemed Lloyd Austin have satisfied themselves that such a basic requirement has been met. Or will they resort to "mercenaries" and "volunteers"?

Posted by Abu Uluque 2023-04-28 12:27|| 2023-04-28 12:27|| Front Page Top

#9 Wasn't there a back-and-forth between The Taliban and some wag about Humvee and their maintenance requirements?

Something like:
-Taliban shows picture of a field of captured Humvees-
"Thank you US."

Wag:
"Good luck maintaining them."

Taliban:
"We know. That's why they are parked."

Posted by swksvolFF 2023-04-28 13:51|| 2023-04-28 13:51|| Front Page Top

#10 ^ In 50 years they'll be common in Havana...with baling wire and duct tape

Posted by Frank G 2023-04-28 19:56|| 2023-04-28 19:56|| Front Page Top

#11 The Ukrainians want help and materiel, well, they got it. The equipment might not get out of Poland, but we'll see.

Posted by DooDahMan 2023-04-28 22:34|| 2023-04-28 22:34|| Front Page Top

22:34 DooDahMan
21:02 Lumpy Stalin9019
19:56 Frank G
19:44 Deacon Blues
19:42 Deacon Blues
18:35 DooDahMan
17:55 746
17:55 Verlaine
17:30 swksvolFF
17:28 jpal
17:25 AlanC
17:24 ed in texas
16:52 Super Hose
16:46 Super Hose
16:35 Super Hose
16:30 Super Hose
16:12 Besoeker
15:59 Bobby
14:18 swksvolFF
13:51 swksvolFF
13:43 Rambler in Virginia
13:39 MikeKozlowski
13:23 Skidmark
13:15 Rambler in Virginia