A blunt but erudite word about a major threat to civilization, Islam.
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
Posted by: badanov ||
09/18/2004 12:05:42 AM ||
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#1
This quote is from The River War, young Churchill's eyewitness account of the 1898 Sudan campaign against Islamic fanatics who had seized the territory in 1885. The climax was the Battle of Omdurman, near Khartoum, in which the Islamozoids learned the hard way about "the strong arms of science," in the form of the Maxim machine gun and quick firing artillery.
Believe it or not, I met Mr. Churchill in 1956, when I was seven years old. He came to our school for a visit and shook my hand. Our teacher had told us that he was the most important person in the world, the Queen not excepted, and that we should behave accordingly or face dire consequencesTM. I remember that he seemed very old and had a ruddy complexion. I blurted out that my dad had been in the RAF during the war and gave him the squadron number. Mr. Churchill said he had visited there and he correctly named the station and my father's commanding officer. I was impressed even then, since it had been 11 years and he must have visited hundreds of airfields and squadrons and met thousands of RAF men. He asked my dad's named, looked pensive for moment when I told him, and then apologized for not being able to remember him.
#2
AC - you shook hands with Winston Churchill?!?1? I'm forty-eight kinds of impressed.
Posted by: Matt ||
09/18/2004 11:14 Comments ||
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#3
Damn I am impressed! I always figured WSC should have been named Times Man of the Century. Reading now Meacham's Franklin and Winston, good stuff. Good long quote from Ike at Casablanca aluding to Churchill's ability to quote new American street slang and Donald Duck in a speech.
(See link for photo of Russkie ex-colonel)
A Russian ex-colonel who was sentenced to 10 years in jail for murdering a Chechen girl has been pardoned by a regional amnesty commission. Yuri Budanov was the first Russian officer to be prosecuted for a crime against a civilian in Chechnya. A final decision on whether to approve the pardon must be made by President Vladimir Putin.
Observers say the recommendation that Budanov be freed will send shockwaves through the Chechen community. The Budanov case has been widely seen as a test of Moscow's determination to crack down on human rights abuses by Russian troops in Chechnya. Human rights groups have documented thousands of cases of alleged abuses in Chechnya, but convictions are rare.
BUDANOV TIMELINE
Mar 2000: Elsa Kungayeva is killed
Dec 2002: Budanov acquitted on grounds of insanity
Feb 2003: Supreme Court orders re-trial
July 2003: Budanov convicted
Oct 2003: Supreme Court upholds conviction
The BBC's regional analyst, Stephen Dalziel, says Chechens believe the recent hostage-taking in a Russian school in Beslan could lead to a renewed crack-down in Chechnya. If Mr Putin grants a pardon to Budanov, Chechens will see this as giving the Russian army carte blanche to behave as it wishes in the republic, our correspondent adds.
Elsa Kungayeva, 18, was taken from her home to a Russian military barracks in March 2000. While in custody, she was strangled. The colonel admitted in court to killing her in a fit of rage during interrogation,because he was convinced she was a Chechen rebel sniper. But he argued he was temporarily insane at the time of the crime.
He was acquitted in a military court in 2002, but the decision was later overturned, and a fresh trial last year resulted in a guilty verdict. "Whether in jail or freed, Budanov will remain a person who has committed a grave crime, which took the life of an innocent girl," Taus Dzhabrailov, the head of Chechnya's pro-Moscow proxy parliament, told Russian news agency Interfax.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/18/2004 7:32:00 PM ||
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#1
Observers say the recommendation that Budanov be freed will send shockwaves through the Chechen community. The Budanov case has been widely seen as a test of Moscowâs determination to crack down on human rights abuses by Russian troops in Chechnya. Human rights groups have documented thousands of cases of alleged abuses in Chechnya, but convictions are rare.
Beware of newspeak by leftist news sources.
Whenever a writer writes of observers, the writer means other writers. It is a backdoor way of retailing what the writer has heard from other writers, probably in a bar.
The 'has beenn widely seen' is another means of blowing passed the reading public the writer's personal opinion. You will notice, there is NO, as in ZERO attribution for the phrase 'has been widely seen.'
The term 'alleged abuses' is not a legal phrase here because a lot of information about Chechnya has been twisted and distorted, primarily of 'human rights' and 'peace' organizations.
And finally, the 'meat' of this sh*t sandwich the writer is serving is the deference to 'human rights' groups which is another way is saying pro terrorist organizations or individuials.
#3
Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are pro-terrorist organizations according to badanov, mainly because they consistently oppose torture and rape regardless of whether it's muslims or christians that are committing it.
A young girl was murdered. Feel free to be angry about BBC instead (it *gasp* dared to call a convicted murderer "convicted murderer" -- how dare it), you bunch of murder apologists.
#4
A young girl was murdered. Feel free to be angry about BBC instead (it *gasp* dared to call a convicted murderer "convicted murderer" -- how dare it), you bunch of murder apologists.
Col. Budanov said she was a suspected female sniper, not a young girl. This armor officer was one of the best the Russian Army had, the kind that would 'carry buckets of gasoline through hell' for his troops. It was a mistake on his part, but that does not absolve the young woman and her family if she was potting Russian soldiers.
Budanov admitted to the murder, but this is his fourth trial. He was acquitted a couple of years ago.
The Russian Army had good reason to suspect she was a Chechen terrorist. So, if Amensty International makes excuses for her behavior, what does that make Amnesty? Pro terrorist.
The woman was killed during interrogation conducted by Col. Budanov, not as a result of any military operation, and she was not killed as a matter of Russian Army policy. But Amnesty won't even hold out for that tidbit of fact, preferring to use this incident and others in their false reporting repetiore to condemn a civil war, a defense action, as it were against Muslim terrorists. What does that make Amnesty? A pro terror group.
We had a poster here two weeks ago trying to give us statistics supporting Amnesty's contention that 240,000 Chechen civilians have died in the Chechen war. As it turns out, the most they can claim is 3,000 dead, a high number to be sure, but not a holocaust that Amnesty prefers to paint it. And this absurdly high number is supported by pro-Chechen terror groups. What does that make Amnesty, when it lies in support of terror organizations? Pro terrorist.
#5
Col. Budanov said she was a suspected female sniper, not a young girl.
More to the point she was a Muslim and therefore a subhuman that could be strangled by the big Russian Christian goon with his bare hands on the basis of mere "suspicion". Right?
Then she can be slandered by you, based on no evidence whatsoever, in order to excuse her murder.
She was an young girl that was murdered. Her murderer admitted to the murder. Then he was acquitted of it. Then he was convicted of it. Then he was acquitted of it again.
Because she was after all non-Russian, and therefore sub-human. When a Russian kills a non-Russian it's always the non-Russian who is to blame. Right, badanov?
Is there *any* scenario that you would ever condemn a Russian's murder of a Chechen, assuming that the Russian had wits enough to claim "I believed she was a terrorist" afterwards?
"We had a poster here two weeks ago trying to give us statistics supporting Amnesty's contention that 240,000 Chechen civilians have died in the Chechen war. As it turns out, the most they can claim is 3,000 dead, "
LOL!! 3000 civilians dead for the whole of Chechenya? Yeah, right. I see you hold the same kind of revisionist approach to massacres that holocaust deniers use.
Tens of thousands of dead are a certainty. Hundreds of thousands are a high possibility. Ofcourse if you take Russian statistics, they never accept *any* civilian casualties at all as collateral damage from their attacks.
#6
And just as a matter of fact, even the early acquittals were only on "grounds of insanity", not because they could pretend that the guy was innocent or the girl guilty, or that her murder wasn't murder.
That kind of murder-justification, not even the Russians can do -- that belongs to badanov alone.
#7
As a further sidenote let us that she was also raped at the time of her interrogation. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3095003.stm
When somebody kidnaps, rapes and murders your daughter, badanov, I hope you do accept the idea of the court acquitting the kidnapper, rapist, and murderer because he thought she was a sniper that needed to be punished as he was "interrogating" her.
#8
More to the point she was a Muslim and therefore a subhuman that could be strangled by the big Russian Christian goon with his bare hands on the basis of mere "suspicion". Right?
I didn't know her skin color or her religion. I simply stated she was suspected of being a sniper; she was taken to an inttorgation where she was killed. That is all I said. All the other stuff you are adding.
Then she can be slandered by you, based on no evidence whatsoever, in order to excuse her murder. She was an young girl that was murdered. Her murderer admitted to the murder. Then he was acquitted of it. Then he was convicted of it. Then he was acquitted of it again. Because she was after all non-Russian, and therefore sub-human. When a Russian kills a non-Russian it's always the non-Russian who is to blame. Right, badanov? Is there *any* scenario that you would ever condemn a Russian's murder of a Chechen, assuming that the Russian had wits enough to claim "I believed she was a terrorist" afterwards?
Where to start. The fact is is that if she was in fact a sniper her murder would not be justified, but there was some reason why the Russian Army suspected it and some reason why she was taken to interrogation. None of this gets mentioned by leftists like BBC or you. You prefer to gloss over these mitigating facts.
I will restate what I said:
1) A suspected Chechen sniper was killed during interrogation by a Russian Army offers, who was subsequently tried and acquitted, then tried again and convicted.
2) There is zero evidence by 'human rights' or 'peace' groups that this murder was in any way Russian Army policy. In fact the officer was absolutely correct to take this women to be interrogated. He was by every legal definition within his rights to do so. This officer has a sacred duty as do all officers in nearly all modern armies to protect their commands. This is what the officer was doing and his action was above reproach. The murder, I will state again, albeit I know Aris will write as though I haven't, was a murder, but it was also not Russian Army policy, and that ultimately, since 'human rights' or 'peace' groups' made it an issue, the only consideration. The murder was a mistake but Col. Budanov must pay for his mistakes.
3) None of the above absolves the deceased or her family from the fact they were suspected terrorists, after all she was a suspected sniper for the Chechens.
LOL!! 3000 civilians dead for the whole of Chechenya? Yeah, right. I see you hold the same kind of revisionist approach to massacres that holocaust deniers use. Tens of thousands of dead are a certainty. Hundreds of thousands are a high possibility. Ofcourse if you take Russian statistics, they never accept *any* civilian casualties at all as collateral damage from their attacks.
Where are the graves? For such a tiny area, there would be graves. Where are the graves?
I will answer for you, there are none because simply put the numbers are grossly exaggerated. Even statistics kept by relief groups indicate there can be no more than 3,000 dead for the whole country over ten years.
If anyone can show me definitive statistics, including graves, etc, I will modify my view. But I suspect the numbers above 3,000 are wildly inflated. I can prove many of them are.
#9
"Where to start. The fact is is that if she was in fact a sniper her murder would not be justified, but there was some reason why the Russian Army suspected it and some reason why she was taken to interrogation. None of this gets mentioned by leftists like BBC or you",
Which reason was there? Please do let us know about the reason, which hopefully is a different one than simply looking pretty enough to rape.
And for all your claim that her murder wouldn't be justified even if she was a sniper, you were quite angry with BBC for not putting extra emphasis on the allegation of sniperhood.
"1) A suspected Chechen sniper was killed during interrogation by a Russian Army offers, who was subsequently tried and acquitted, then tried again and convicted."
She was raped and killed during interrogation by an officer that was acquitted on reasons of claimed temporary insanity.
"1) There is zero evidence by 'human rights' or 'peace' groups that this murder was in any way Russian Army policy"
It's the acquittals that make it Russian policy. You can rape and kill, then claim you were temporarily insane, and everything's fine for Russia's courts.
"In fact the officer was absolutely correct to take this woman to be interrogated."
And raped and killed. Because he afterwards *claimed* he suspected her of being a sniper.
"3) None of the above absolves the deceased or her family from the fact they were suspected terrorists, after all she was a suspected sniper for the Chechens. LOL"
Somehow I didn't know it was a crime to be merely "suspected". None of this absolves the family from the fact they were "suspected"?? Are you utterly insane? Don't you understand the words that spew out of your mouth?
"Where are the graves"?? Are you frigging insane? Mass graves are discovered *after* the government that put them is disposed of power. The mass graves in Iraq were discovered after Saddam was deposed.
So, if Russia is first kicked out of Chechenya, *then* we might discover all the mass graves there exist.
But already there are three thousand bodies alone in the mass graves that have already been discovered (search google) -- those bodies count for the "disappearances" alone, not the people that are killed and buried normally by their families.
#10
Somehow I didn't know it was a crime to be merely "suspected". None of this absolves the family from the fact they were "suspected"?? Are you utterly insane? Don't you understand the words that spew out of your mouth?
Of course he does, but can't you see the "suspect" is translation for "We know they did it". OBL is just a "suspect" of 9/11 to the Arab world. Nazi's are just "Suspects" in hate crimes against Blacks and Jews. When the MSM uses the word "Suspect", especially the BBC, it means one thing: That person is guilty, but they don't want to say anything that might 'offend' their readers.
I thought you would have realized this by now Aris.
Posted by: Charles ||
09/18/2004 12:07 Comments ||
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#11
Which reason was there? Please do let us know about the reason, which hopefully is a different one than simply looking pretty enough to rape. And for all your claim that her murder wouldn't be justified even if she was a sniper, you were quite angry with BBC for not putting extra emphasis on the allegation of sniperhood.
Huh?
It's the acquittals that make it Russian policy.
A trial is policy and it was determined the first time he was no guilty. That is not policy. It is a verdict. Two different things.
You can rape and kill, then claim you were temporarily insane, and everything's fine for Russia's courts.
This is how matters played out the first time. You got a verdict more to your liking the second trial. Be happy. In the US under criminal law once you go to trial and you are acquitted, it is game over for the defendant and it should have been like that here, but it wasn't.
And raped and killed. Because he afterwards *claimed* he suspected her of being a sniper
The first verdict supports that claim.
LOL Somehow I didn't know it was a crime to be merely "suspected".
They took the woman to be interrogated for a crime. It's what civilized countries do.
Are you frigging insane? Mass graves are discovered *after* the government that put them is disposed of power. The mass graves in Iraq were discovered after Saddam was deposed. So, if Russia is first kicked out of Chechenya, *then* we might discover all the mass graves there exist. But already there are three thousand bodies alone in the mass graves that have already been discovered (search google) -- those bodies count for the "disappearances" alone, not the people that are killed and buried normally by their families.
If you think I am going to accept a 'human rights' group version of events, you are insane. And I did Google it. 2,800 total in graves all over the country. That puts to lie the contention of 240,000 dead. There are mass graves, but they add up to 2,800. And the country is owned by the Chechens. Show me the graves, Aris.
#12
Of course he does, but can't you see the "suspect" is translation for "We know they did it". OBL is just a "suspect" of 9/11 to the Arab world. Nazi's are just "Suspects" in hate crimes against Blacks and Jews. When the MSM uses the word "Suspect", especially the BBC, it means one thing: That person is guilty, but they don't want to say anything that might 'offend' their readers. I thought you would have realized this by now Aris.
This thread is out of control. In your weorld, no one in a combat capacity can take anyone for anything they are suspected of. They must be tried, in absentia, before we can find the truth.
My entire contention in this mess is that the Chechen woman who was killed was a suspected sniper, not just a 'young girl' taken into the night.
My contention is also the Russian army officer had the right to protect his command and he did so, but he wound up murdering someone in the process. And he was tried twice until the Russian ogovernment got the verdict folks like Aris and Chuck wanted.
The fact is that legally, under the law the Russian officer can take reprisals from a local population for attacks on his troops. It is black letter international law. Look it up yourself.
You want to pile corpses and say it is Russian Army that did this? Prove it. I seriously doubt you can.
#13
Of course he does, but can't you see the "suspect" is translation for "We know they did it".
No, in this case it's NOT just translation for "We know they did it". Suspect in this case is translation for "they are Chechens that haven't been proven to be pro-Moscow yet". Even the pro-Moscow fellow in the article called her an innocent girl.
"In the US under criminal law once you go to trial and you are acquitted, it is game over for the defendant and it should have been like that here, but it wasn't. "
In the USA, this colonel wouldn't have been acquitted. And in fact in the USA the system of "civil trials" on a federal level was created in order to punish white murderers of black people that would have been acquitted on 1950s era racist white South (we're not convicting you of the murder, we're convicting of violating the civil rights of the murdered victim).
So, yeah, people can be tried twice for the same crime even in America, and I know your system a bit better than you do yourself.
In this case, the second trial and the conviction was done in order to partially excuse Russia in the face of the civilised world. Just recently badanov used the argument that Russia does convict the Russian troops that so very rarely end up committing crimes.
But Russia no longer needs such an excuse -- what Russia needs is the free flow of willing murderers now that she's passing over the threshold of "partially free" and over to completely "non-free" (to use the Freedomhouse terms): Chechens are automatically guilty. Chechens deserve to be tortured, raped, murdered regardless of whether they committed crimes or not. Now, what Russia needs is the full go-ahead of the Nazi genocidal ideology.
Afterall, what would Nazi Germany be if any German could be convicted of killing any Jew? What would 1800s American South be if any white could be convicted of killing any black? What would Putin's Russia be if any Russian could be convicted of killing any Chechen?
"You got a verdict more to your liking the second trial. Be happy."
I will be happy when the kidnapping rapist murderer is dead, not praised as a hero by badanov and his fellow murder-apologists for raping and murdering an INNOCENT GIRL who is then treated as the criminal in the case because a raping murderer decided to label her a "suspect".
"They took the woman to be interrogated for a crime. It's what civilized countries do. "
Where they didn't interrogate but rather raped and murdered her. It's what Saddam's Iraq and Putin's Russia and many other murderous regimes do.
#14
The main thing is that a lot of statistics are bandied about about the true nature of what is going on in Chechnya. Many of them which use terms such as "as many as" or "up to" are clearly rhetorical lies used to bolster a political position, not expose the truth.
The Russian government is not being forthcoming and they are not admitting they have a problem in Chechnya. But then neither are the Chechens as well. It is difficult for me to believe that ALL the mass graves are filled by official Russian guns, let alone Russian Army, and that the Chechens have had nothing to do with atrocities. To ignore that is completely insane.
If the Russian Army has in fact been committing summary executions, they have a severe command problem. Whether it runs to the top is only speculation. I doubt short of even more summary executions the Russian military can win the war in Chechnya the way things are being handled there now.
Now that said, we still do not know what element of the Russian military is committing summary executions (the most serious charge in my view ), and how many of the mass graves were filled by official actions, whether by Russian regulars or by MVD troops (And like it or not, this is a critical distinction for me) This is an important element to me for if Russian regulars are being ordered to sumamrily execute civilians, then there is no way in my estimate short of a real holocaust they can win the war.
But we do not know this but I will not accept Amnesty's version of events, nor can I accept Aris and his craven willingness to parrot their line. I consider them partisan and biased. I consider, given their total lack of responsibility, a pro terrorist organization.
Despite all the accusations Aris makes against me personally, ( holocaust denier, murder apologist, etc ) I just wanna know the truth and when someone, as in anyone, puts forth an assertion regarding the Chechnya war they had better be prepared to defend that assertion with all they can muster. And if the attempt to defend uses race ( as Aris did ), gender ( as Aris did ), or holocaust (again as Aris did ) then I know something is up; someone is trying to blow something passed readers, and I wanna know what that is.
#15
The Russian (sorry Soviets) had "good reasons" too, to "interrogate" me because I was a suspected "Werewolf" (what a cruel irony) and a "spy for America".
I don't think they have changed much. In the 90s the verdict was squashed. I received a dry Russian letter. "Your conviction is no longer valid". Great. No apology for 9 years of slave labor in Workuta, let alone some compensation. Ten thousands of slave workers died in Workuta alone (99% hadn't committed any "crime") and they couldn't even say sorry.
I have no sympathy for Chechen terrorists. But what the Russians did to Chechnya way before the Chechens churned out terrorists is not excusable either. In Workuta I first learned of the horrors the Chechens had to endure under Stalin.
The Chechens have been occupied in Czarist times, were deported to Siberia by Stalin, brutally repressed ever since, and when after Gorbachev's fall they tried to become independent (just like the Baltic States which are now EU members), the Russians killed ten thousands of them, reduced Grosny to rubble. The Russians killed ten times or more innocent children in Chechnya before Chechen terrorists committed the unspeakable crime of Beslan.
After the 1st Chechen War the Russians withdrew temporarily but the country was absolutely destroyed, received no help, people scratched together everything to survive the next day. That's when drug money and Saudi "subsidies" started flowing in.
Putin's War finished off what was left. Beslan has no excuses. But what the Russians have done to Chechnya for 200 years has little excuses neither.
Russia has a long way to go before it becomes a "civilized nation". After Beslan, the way has just become longer.
#16
My understanding of the current conflict is that when Chechen rebels began operating in Dagetstan in 1999, Putin decided to go after then in Dagestan and Chechnya.
From what I remember, it apeared Russia was going to use just air power and artillery, but then ground forces were introduced in August, 1999.
I guess Putin hasn't dropped his KGB habits, because a number of actions in Chechnya from 1999 on were by MVD troops against civilians. I am not certain to what extent the Russian Army has been involved, and this is a current matter of curiousity for me.. A lot of news stories tend to lump forces together as if they are all under the same command with the same mission. It is impossible to deal with that lack in information and even harder when NGOs like Amnesty makes assertions they won't back up.
#17
"And he was tried twice until the Russian government got the verdict folks like Aris and Chuck wanted."
Oh, no, badanov, it was the verdict that Russia itself wanted, and that people like you wanted. After all I wasn't fooled when Russia had convicted this *one* fellow. It's other people that used him as an excuse: "See, Russia does convict people that committed crimes against Chechen innocents."
In the period where the nature of Putin's Russia was still partially obscure, the conviction benefitted it in order to keep on hiding that nature. But now that Putin is going ahead with consolidating his dictatorship and abolishing democracy at the local level even as it was thoroughly undermined at the federal.. the conviction no longer is needed, and the good colonel is acquitted again. How will they motivate their troops without rape as one of the bonuses offered for crushing the rebels?
"In your world, no one in a combat capacity can take anyone for anything they are suspected of. They must be tried, in absentia, before we can find the truth"
In my world they can be interrogated and even imprisoned before their trial. But they cannot be raped or murdered as this girl was.
And it's not just "my" world, it's what the whole civilised world does -- "Thou Shalt Not Rape and Murder Suspects Brought In For Interrogation" is pretty high on the Civilisation Rulebook.
"And if the attempt to defend uses race ( as Aris did ), gender ( as Aris did ), or holocaust (again as Aris did ) then I know something is up;"
Yeah the Chechen-Russian war clearly has nothing to do with ethnicity, and rape doesn't have anything to do with gender. And this acquittal of a Russian murderer by a Russian court has nothing whatsoever to do with the way Russia or you view the worth of Chechen lives.
It was just "a mistake" according to you, when his hands squeezed the life out of her, and it was just "a mistake" when she was raped.
In the so-called civilised world these wouldn't be seen as "mistakes", these would be seen as horrible crimes. By calling what he did "a mistake", you have clearly made your own choice about whether you belong to the civilised world or not.
#18
... it was the verdict that Russia itself wanted, and that people like you wanted. After all I wasn't fooled when Russia had convicted this *one* fellow. It's other people that used him as an excuse: "See, Russia does convict people that committed crimes against Chechen innocents."
I didn't care personally. I tend to take people at their word. I accept that the woman was killed in the course of this officer discharging his duties, protecting his command as he is obligated to do. You seem not to think so, and that is fine. But don't smear me with her blood. Besides, the officer was found guilty. What is your problem?
In the period where the nature of Putin's Russia was still partially obscure, the conviction benefitted it in order to keep on hiding that nature. But now that Putin is going ahead with consolidating his dictatorship and abolishing democracy at the local level even as it was thoroughly undermined at the federal.. the conviction no longer is needed, and the good colonel is acquitted again.
The Colonel was pardoned, not acquitted. I thought you said you know about law. Guess not.
How will they motivate their troops without rape as one of the bonuses offered for crushing the rebels?
The colonel was not charged with rape. There was no evidence supporting a prosecution for rape. Jeez Aris, kindly know something about this subject before you start hauling your agenda in for a visit.
In my world they can be interrogated and even imprisoned before their trial. But they cannot be raped or murdered as this girl was. And it's not just "my" world, it's what the whole civilised world does -- "Thou Shalt Not Rape and Murder Suspects Brought In For Interrogation" is pretty high on the Civilisation Rulebook.
It's high on my list as well. And the killing was a mistake. The colonel even admitted it. He went out of control and he was tried and eventually found guilty for it.
Yeah the Chechen-Russian war clearly has nothing to do with ethnicity, and rape doesn't have anything to do with gender. And this acquittal of a Russian murderer by a Russian court has nothing whatsoever to do with the way Russia or you view the worth of Chechen lives. It was just "a mistake" according to you, when his hands squeezed the life out of her, and it was just "a mistake" when she was raped.
Get over the charge of rape. This officer did not rape the woman. Drop it from your repetoire, s'il vous plait.
I sense you are trying to frame this as something else. Unfortunately, it is what it is. A killing in an interrogation of a suspected Chechen sniper. The interrorgation got out of hand. The woman died. The officer tried to hide the murder, was caught, first found not guilty, then later found guilty, then pardoned. Where is the problem, outside of the pardon?
In the so-called civilised world these wouldn't be seen as "mistakes", these would be seen as horrible crimes. By calling what he did "a mistake", you have clearly made your own choice about whether you belong to the civilised world or not.
The officer was charged, tried twice until a verdict of guilty was made. What is your problem? The officer admitted the murder, and said it was done in a rage, i.e. a mistake. He tried to hide the murder, but it did him little good.
And in the sense of fairness let us leave this one officer's actions aside for a moment and concentrate on what you're saying. The Russians did not go into Chechnya because they want to kill more Chechens. They went there becayse the place was out of control, and because they were a part of Russian, inasmuch as some Chechens wanted independance. The Russian Army and the MVD both took heavy losses and they destroyed a lot in Chechnya, but don't paint the Russian military with this bloody brush if you are not willing the slime the Islamists as well. You just sound like a snake oil salesman when you do that.
#19
I'm quite willing to "slime the Islamists" it's simply that I've not noticed anyone in this thread trying to excuse *muslim* murderers.
"I tend to take people at their word. I accept that the woman was killed in the course of this officer discharging his duties, "
You take even convicted murderers at their word. *Right*. Does that apply to Muslim convicted murderers as well? Or does it apply only to Russian convicted murderers?
And as for the rape: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3184161.stm
"Sexual assault is also notoriously unprovable, because of the lack of witnesses - but in Elsa's case, her dead body bore clear evidence of rape."
So was it Budanov or some of his soldiers that raped the girl? Did your precious colonel Budanov, whose word you trust, explain about that?
#20
And as for the rape: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3184161.stm "Sexual assault is also notoriously unprovable, because of the lack of witnesses - but in Elsa's case, her dead body bore clear evidence of rape." So was it Budanov or some of his soldiers that raped the girl? Did your precious colonel Budanov, whose word you trust, explain about that?
There was no evidence that Colonel Budanov raped the woman, thus he was never prosecuted. The woman was raped but not by Colonel Budanov.
This whole thread has been about BBC 'journalists' getting their opinions published as fact. As we saw in the story this thread is about, the BBC is a very poor source for unbiased information. You shouldn't use it and expect me to regard it as reliable and unbiased.
#21
You've rejected BBC as source of info, you've rejected Human rights organizations as source of info -- and the only source in this entire thread you've named as trustworthy to you (you accept people's word!), were the words of a convicted murdered whose only defense was insanity, and who either himself or one of his subordinated raped the murdered girl, either before or after her murder.
Did you read that the first *prosecutors* (not defense lawyers) of the case asked for Budanov's amnesty? That shows you the Russian system, when the public prosecutors seek an even more lenient treatment for murderers of Chechen girl than even the defense attorneys dare to ask.
We don't know if it was Budanov or his subordinate or both of them that raped the girl. The one certain fact is that she was raped. And you've had the *nerve* to call this the kind of "interrogation" that all the civilised world do, and pretty much claim that I don't want suspects to be interrogated at all if I'm opposed to it.
#22
Aris... with all due respect you are sounding like my worthy opponent H. Burger right after the evidence comes in.
Posted by: Paul Drake ||
09/18/2004 19:47 Comments ||
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#23
Sorry, Paul, I don't get your reference.
And the problem of there not existing *any* source that badanov finds acceptable (other than Colonel Budanov's claims, whose word he accepts, possibly because there's only one letter difference between the two of them) is still an issue.
What possible source could I ever name that talks about Chechnya but doesn't fall according to badanov, either to "human-rights organization" or to "International leftist news agency"? The only two remaining ones are probably the Russian government itself, or the Chechen separatists. Since *those* ones are probably not very unbiased either, then we're back to believing merely the word of convicted murderer Colonel Budanov.
Colonel Budanov says he was merely temporarily insane when he killed the girl. Or perhaps he just liked to asphyxiate his victims as he raped them. In Putin's Russia where prosecutors are even more lenient about crimes against Chechens than the defense attorneys are, we're unlikely to ever find out -- only known fact is that the victim is both murdered and raped.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/18/2004 15:27 Comments ||
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#3
That makes sense.... not a lot of sense... but.. :)
Posted by: Paul Drake ||
09/18/2004 19:48 Comments ||
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#4
Jeez as someone who has worked with sodium cyanide for a number of years, it always seems that much is made of some company, group etc aquiring cyanid. It is use in all sorts of chemical reactions that have nothing to do with nerve gas. The mining industry in the U.S. uses thousands of tons per year, it can be made by a number of reactions and costs less than a dollar a pound in ton lots. Its like saying that someone buys gasoline is going to make molotov cocktails with it. By the way cyanide is not used to make nerve gas.
Posted by: Old Fogey ||
09/18/2004 20:42 Comments ||
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#5
N. Korea: Jeez as someone who has worked with sodium cyanide for a number of years, it always seems that much is made of some company, group etc aquiring cyanid.
That is correct. The Union Carbide disaster in Bhopal involved cyanide. A lot of industrial chemicals are pretty toxic, which is why trucks containing these materials usually have lots of warnings plastered on them.
#3
We've got plenty and can share anytime they need them. In fact, they're right out there off shore.
Posted by: Tom ||
09/18/2004 15:23 Comments ||
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#4
South Korea would rather go 'red' than 'dead'! expect us to eventually hand over the south to the north (this time without firing a shot, just like we did in Vietnam!
#1
"The girls are treated as second class and all are sent home to marry their first cousins in pre-arranged weddings. They receive no support in their studies."
Married of to 40 year old first cousins or uncles at 13.
"Islam is being peddled to these kids. They are told to hate the West, and America in particular. These children are victims, growing up in a country they are forbidden to become a part of and encouraged to despise the people they live amongst."
"Islam is being peddled to these kids. They are told to hate the West, and America in particular. These children are victims, growing up in a country they are forbidden to become a part of and encouraged to despise the people they live amongst."
The European Union added a fresh arm to its fast-growing military and police machinery yesterday, launching a fighting "gendarmerie" for quick deployment to trouble spots all over world. EU defence ministers meeting in Holland agreed to back the French-inspired plan for a 900-man force to be operational by December. Comprising French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, and Portuguese units, the gendarmerie - or carabinieri in Italian - will be well-armed and ready for full-scale conflict if necessary. The first commander will be French, with headquarters in Italy.
Michelle Alliot-Marie, the French defence minister, said the force was designed for "post-conflict" duties in regions emerging from civil war such as Bosnia, Kosovo and Ivory Coast. She extolled the move as further proof that Europe is coming of age as a genuine military power and added: "When we spoke of European defence 10 years ago, it was utopian; five years ago, it was just talk; now it's a reality." Britain welcomed the scheme but without its own tradition of a militarised police it has no plans to take part. The gendarmerie is one of a plethora of cross-border military, paramilitary, and police bodies sprouting up in the EU, including a Finnish-Swedish force to patrol the Arctic wastes and a Franco-Spanish anti-terrorist police corps.
The EU's main project is a rapid reaction force, a pool of 60,000 troops, 400 aircraft and 40 warships, backed by a military staff and an intelligence cell in Brussels, supposedly ready for duty worldwide. Critics say it remains a paper army, lacking the basic airlift to project force overseas, or the sort of "smart" weapons that dominate modern warfare. Mrs Alliot-Marie has been pushing for an autonomous EU military force outside Nato control. She is the chief advocate of a strategic alliance between the EU and China to counter American power, a plan that has infuriated Washington. While Britain and France have been working closely together in pushing the EU's defence ambitions, their ultimate vision is starkly different. Paris sees it as part of long-term goal of breaking dependence on Washington: London sees it as a means of locking the EU into the transatlantic structure.
Posted by: tipper ||
09/18/2004 11:23:19 AM ||
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French-inspired plan for a 900-man force
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Thanks. I love starting off my day with a good laugh.
The EU: A legend in their own minds.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 11:29 Comments ||
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#2
now, let me get this straight: is Michelle a man, like Dominique?
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/18/2004 11:36 Comments ||
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#3
Even though female, Michelle is a man like Dominique.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/18/2004 12:06 Comments ||
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#4
ROFL, Fred!
You nailed it.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 12:33 Comments ||
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#5
The first commander will be French, with headquarters in Italy.
Clouseau was a policeman ie a civilian and. can't become a general of the gendarmerie who is a branch of the military just like the Coastguard in the US.
Now a better idea would be to nominate Clouseau's butler. The one who hides in closets and fridges before bouncing upon him. I would love that butler bounce upon Gicard d'Estaing and give him a series of karate blows.
#8
France is not an ally. The pre-eminent French strategic goal is the same as it was in De Gaulle's day: countering the American hyperpuissance. Now as then, the tactical approach is triangulation-- tilting toward America's chief enemies (China, the jihadists) enough to seriously undermine our security while still trying to retain the benefits from American hegemony. Perhaps that was possible when MAD governed the behavior of the US and Soviet superpowers, but it's a foolish and reckless game today. Time for us to do a bit more triangulating of our own, with RUssia and India especially.
#9
"...a 900-man force ...will be well-armed and ready for full-scale conflict if necessary. The first commander will be French..."
Gotta hand it to those French, they can retreat at almost any scale.
Posted by: Tom ||
09/18/2004 15:27 Comments ||
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#10
After TGA's post I feel it would be useful to detail the organization of French law and order forces.
There is Police who is civilian and operates in cities and Gendarmerie who is part of military, operates in rural zones and has less restrictive rules of engagement. Gendarmerie doesn't have plain clothes people (Napoleon ruled Gendamerie should be kept honorable).
Both have an anti-riot section: CRS for the Police, Gendarmerie Mobile for Gendarmerie. Notice that the anti-riots units are unaffected bt the restriction to rural or city zones but I have been told Gendarmerie Mobile is less brutal than CRS. The guy who was crippled and nearly killed by German hooligans during the world cup was a Gendarme. On the other hand French beaches are not watched by incredibly sexy girls in red bath suits like in Baywatch but by CRS swimmers.
Gendarmerie as part of the military has also misions in the defence of the country (during the cold war they were assigned the mission to fight Spetznatz) and Gendarmerie Mobile has at least ine regiment equipped with cannon armed light tanks (its predecessor was destroyed in 1940 by the Germans)
Both police and gendarmerie have their own equivalents of SWAT units. It was the "Police SWAT" who killed "Human Bomb" a guy who had wired himself with explosives and threatened to blow himself in a kidergarten (To my strong displeasure I heard people whinning for police not having tried to catch him alive). It was their gendarme counterparts who shot a team of muslim terrorists who had abducted a plane, and apparently wanted to detonate it over Paris.
There is an intense rivality between Police and Gendarmerie.
#11
Cool - great breakdown, JFM -- THANX! The rivalry / competition aspect probably serves to keep them both sharp and professional. That's the theory, anyway! Again, Thanx!
Government has found another use in rivalry: play them against one/another. In the 80's whenopolicemen marched on the Elysee (policemen have the right to demonstrate when not on duty) since they are civilians), the gendarmes (who are military and are forbidden to go on strike or demonstrate) were sent to oppose them.
On the other hand police has been traditionally more prone to accept orders for doing illegal or not completely legal things while gendarmes are seen as sticking to the law (and are ill suited for "unclean" jobs since they have to operate in uniform)
#13
They announced it, and in Europe that's all that's required. No need to staff, equip or fund it. After all words are more important than deeds - right?
Posted by: A Jackson ||
09/18/2004 19:37 Comments ||
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#14
There was a day when Airbus was announced, too.
#15
She is the chief advocate of a strategic alliance between the EU and China to counter American power, a plan that has infuriated Washington.
Does anyone else have the least bit of trouble with what has to be one of the most moronic ideas to ever sluice down the political sewer in several decades? An alliance with communist China? Who the f&%k are these idiots and how do they manage to get to work without causing a head-on collision?
NATO should be disbanded instanter should even another whisper of this lunacy happen in official circles. I can only suppose that these same mouth-breathers would have advocated a pact with the Soviet Union to counter American generosity might during the Berlin wall era. These loons need to FOAD ASAP.
#18
Golly gee whiz -- I am impressed! A whole continent able to support a 900-man unit. Well, shoot -- America might as well pack it up and go home, 'cause Europe will be able to take care of everything, now.
#1
Thanks for reminding me that the liberal left really only has one point of view, their own. Free speech only applies when it follows party lines as papers like Pravda East and West prove daily along with their comrades, the liberal far left academia.
Michelle is one brave individual and I truly admire her.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
09/18/2004 15:02 Comments ||
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#2
She may be a woman, but to go where she did, and speak out as she did , means she must have "them" the size of grapefruits somewhere.
..I am truly hoping that this is a major misunderstanding - if not, somebody's for the chop. EFL.
Soldiers from a Fort Carson combat unit say they have been issued an ultimatum — re-enlist for three more years or be transferred to other units expected to deploy to Iraq. Hundreds of soldiers from the 3rd Brigade Combat Team were presented with that message and a re-enlistment form in a series of assemblies last Thursday, said two soldiers who spoke on condition of anonymity. The effort is part of a restructuring of the Army into smaller, more flexible forces that can deploy rapidly around the world. A Fort Carson spokesman confirmed the re-enlistment drive is under way and one of the soldiers provided the form to the Rocky Mountain News. An Army spokesmen denied, however, that soldiers who don't re-enlist with the brigade were threatened.
Being reassigned to another unit is not a threat...
The form, if signed, would bind the soldier to the 3rd Brigade until Dec. 31, 2007. The two soldiers said they were told that those who did not sign would be transferred out of the 3rd Brigade Combat Team. "They said if you refuse to re-enlist with the 3rd Brigade, we'll send you down to the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, which is going to Iraq for a year, and you can stay with them, or we'll send you to Korea, or to Fort Riley (in Kansas) where they're going to Iraq," said one of the soldiers, a sergeant.
The Korea option isn't the same as going to Iraq. But the likely unit of reassignment will be up for Iraq, because that's where most of the maneuver units in the Army are rotating...
The second soldier, an enlisted man who was interviewed separately, essentially echoed that view. "They told us if we don't re-enlist, then we'd have to be reassigned. And where we're most needed is in units that are going back to Iraq in the next couple of months. So if you think you're getting out, you're not," he said.
Soldiers are always reassigned in accordance with the needs of the Army. Period. Soldiers are accomodated if it can be done, but mission comes first, especially in war time...
The brigade's presentation outraged many soldiers who are close to fulfilling their obligation and are looking forward to civilian life, the sergeant said. "We have a whole platoon who refuses to sign," he said. A Fort Carson spokesman said Wednesday that 3rd Brigade recruitment officers denied threatening the soldiers with Iraq duty. "I can only tell you what the retention officers told us: The soldiers were not being told they will go to Iraq, but they may go to Iraq," said the spokesman, who gave that explanation before being told later to direct all inquiries to the Pentagon.
That's what I said, except for the part about directing inquiries to the Pentagon...
Sending soldiers to Iraq with less than one year of their enlistment remaining "would not be taken lightly," Lt. Col. Gerard Healy said from the Pentagon Wednesday.
In other words, it's something they'd try not to do...
"We realize that we deal with people and with families, and that's got to be a factor," he said. "There's probably a lot of places on post where they could put those folks (who don't re-enlist) until their time expires. But I don't want to rule out the possibility that they could go to a unit that might deploy," said Healy. Under current Army practice, members of Iraq-bound units are "stop-lossed," meaning they could be retained in the unit for an entire year in Iraq, even if their active-duty enlistment expires. A recruiter told the sergeant that the Army would keep them "as long as they needed us."
Most of the officers and cadre NCOs I work with at Aberdeen are either retirees recalled to active duty or reservists who've been called up and stayed on active duty. One sergeant had been retired for 18 years before accepting retiree callup. We have a lietenant colonel who brings an oxygen tank to work with him. The Army, unlike all of its members, realizes we're at war, and they're filling the support positions to allow the young, healthy guys to man the maneuver brigades. What they're obviously trying to do with 3rd Brigade Combat Team is to bring all the release dates in line so that the unit will be formed an demobilized as a single entity. There won't be new guys to watch out for throughout most of its existence. I don't know if it's good policy or not — it's not my job — but I can think through the steps necessary to make it happen.
Extending a soldier's active duty is within Army authority, since the enlistment contract carries an eight-year obligation, even if a soldier signs for only three or four years of active duty.
You do your three or four years and then you're in the reserves — subject to callup — for the remainder of the time.
The 3rd Brigade recruiting effort is part of the Army's plan to restructure large divisions of more than 10,000 soldiers into smaller, more flexible, more numerous brigade-sized "Units of Action" of about 3,500 soldiers each. The Army envisions building each unit into a cohesive whole and staffing them with soldiers who will stay with the unit for longer periods of time, said John Pike, head of the defense analysis think tank Global Security. But some soldiers presented with the re-enlistment message last week believe they've already done their duty and should not be penalized for choosing to leave. They deployed to Iraq for a year with the 3rd Brigade last April.
You've done your duty when your commitment is up.
WHAT THE FORM SAID
* "Elect not to extend or re-enlist and understand that the soldier will be reassigned IAW (in accordance with) the needs of the Army by Department of the Army HRC (Human Resources Command) . . . or Fort Carson G1 (Personnel Office)."
WHAT IT MEANS
* Soldiers who sign the letter are bound to the 3rd Brigade Combat Team until Dec. 31, 2007.
* Soldiers who do not sign the letter might be transferred out of the brigade and possibly to Iraq.
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
09/18/2004 12:35:12 AM ||
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While in Vietnam (1966) I received this order:
"Invol ext 4 months IAW 10 USG 5538 & ALNAV-45-65".Instead of being discharged June 1966,I was discharged 28 SEPT 1966.Net total active duty:
04 years, 03 months,07 days.
#3
Major B.S. is the right call. Reinlisting for another three years will absolutely guarantee another tour in Iraq, Afghanistan, or the Bulkans, reguardless of which unit they end up serving. I ETS next June, and I've been told I have to go back for 6 months. If I reinlisted, I'd be back there TWO more times, maybe three. Sorry logic there. "We have a whole platoon who refuses to sign,"
Whole platoons don't EST at the same time.
Posted by: Homer ||
09/18/2004 14:55 Comments ||
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#4
What they're obviously trying to do with 3rd Brigade Combat Team is to bring all the release dates in line so that the unit will be formed an demobilized as a single entity.
At first glance that's my read on it too. This is a major initiative of the Army designed in part to allow families to move less often.
#5
The Army is attempting to "stabilize" personnel in units for a 3 or 4 year cycle. They will train up, deploy, return, and stand down together. This also allows them to keep a cadre of personnel together to rebuild the unit for it's next cycle. The report is true but the point of view is all wrong. BTW - the Army has always had the "needs of the Army" reenlistment option. (Been there - got the lapel pin!)
#6
We can only hope that the better bloggers -- instapundit,com comes to mind -- will soon be able to bring cases like this to national attention. Unfortunately for these soldiers, no national news organization has the ability to report this story in terms they would accept, or maybe even understand, and no blogger has the audience to make such idiocy a national affair. Is this happening elsewhere? And how can we protest REMF pettiness without being co-opted? While we wait, if someone would provide us with a few email addresses, at least we can do something. So who do I write?
Iran plans to propose President Mohammad Khatami as a candidate for secretary general of the United Nations to succeed Kofi Annan, the news agency IRNA reported on Friday.
Oh, cheeze. The difference between hemorrhoids and piles...
Former Iranian vice-president Hassan Ghaffuri-Fard told IRNA the proposal was raised during a political forum in China and welcomed by most of the Asian officials at the meeting.
"A guy with a turban as secretary general? Hey! Great idea!"
Khatami, whose second presidential term will end next summer, and who is constitutionally barred from a third term, has not yet reacted to the nomination plans.
Posted by: tipper ||
09/18/2004 11:12:26 AM ||
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No problem. That much more justification for the U.S. quitting and sending the U.N. to France. sKerry can move to France and have the job after Mohammad.
Posted by: Tom ||
09/18/2004 11:23 Comments ||
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#2
I think Khatami may be a little busy in the next few months trying to re-start his nuke program from the ruins.
Or, hopefully, trying to find his pieces-parts.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 11:26 Comments ||
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#3
I'm all for this. There is no better way on earth to ensure that the UN is forever unmasked as the diplomatic farce and featherbed jobsite that it is today. With Khatami at the helm, this institution's anti-Semitism could finally be formalized and their support for international terrorism made official.
#5
Works for me. One fox in the chicken coop will eat all the chickens. No more chicken coop. A coop de something or other, so to speak.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/18/2004 12:29 Comments ||
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#6
Until Iran, the originators of the modern Islamic terrorism movement is stopped dead cold, the counter-jihadists war in Iraq is sort of like, spraying a can or two of insect repellent in the deepest part of the Amazon, and then expecting to be bitten again.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/18/2004 13:50 Comments ||
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#7
Ah no, I suggest Saddam. After all we have to compensate him for waging an "illegal" war against his country. He's available, the UN has his bank account numbers already.
Khatami could come in for the next term, after the "illegal" war against Iran... Well he could take El Baradei's job maybe in the meantime.
Zimbabwe Bob could take over as the Human Rights Commissioner although Sudan might have its own aspirations to that job.
#10
The Persians are coming! The Persians are coming!
If Khatami becomes Secretary General, the post gives him an excuse to have a larger Iranian entourage around him. And this numerically-enhanced entourage should help him provide the folks back home with great video footage of significant American tourist attractions such as skyscrapers, bridges, tunnels, nuclear power plants, oil refinery complexes and Federal office buildings. This should encourage small bands of Muslim tourists to visit America.
#12
I'm a BIG beleiver in the world wide targeted assasination of the enemies of the USA. If Khatami wants to come to NY City, I have no problem with that. He'd be eaiser to...uh...deal with... on a local level living in NY City then living in Tehran.
Posted by: Mark Z. ||
09/18/2004 18:32 Comments ||
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#16
Although I expect the next SecGen to come from some innocuous third world garbage heap rather than a controversial state like Iran, India, or Zimbabwe, it would be fun to watch the fallout from a political nuke like this. Perhaps the US would tighten the purse strings and tell the UN that the lease just ran out on that prime Manhattan real estate. Close the NY headquarters, move the parasites to their offices in Geneva and let the Europeans subsidize them instead of us.
From FoxNews, 9/17 - if it was posted before, please delete.Severely EFL.
Did Saddam Hussein use any of his ill-gotten billions filched from the United Nations Oil-for-Food program to help fund Al Qaeda?
Wouldn't surprise me, but I'd like to see somebody nail down that he did...
Now, buried in some of the United Nation's own confidential documents, clues can be seen that underscore the possibility of just such a Saddam-Al Qaeda link — clues leading to a locked door in this Swiss lakeside resort. Next to that door, a festive sign spells out in gold letters under a green flag that this is the office of MIGA, the Malaysian Swiss Gulf and African Chamber. Registered here 20 years ago as a society to promote business between the Gulf States and Asia, Europe and Africa, MIGA is a company that the United Nations and the U.S. government says has served as a hub of Al Qaeda finance: A terrorist chamber of commerce...
What next? The Rotary Club with turbans?
As is typical of terrorist financial webs, the details surrounding MIGA quickly become bewildering — part of the point being to camouflage the illicit flow of funds with legitimate business. Part of the problem in finding the truth is that cross-border transactions out of such financial havens as Switzerland are smothered in banking secrecy. But even with that secrecy — and shortly after the Sept.11, 2001, attacks on the United States — both MIGA and its chief founder and longtime president, Ahmed Idris Nasreddin, landed on the U.N. watchlist of entities and individuals belonging to, or affiliated with Al Qaeda. Nasreddin is a member of the terror-linked Muslim Brotherhood. Well, I'm just shocked. Hooda thunk it?
Also from the article: "Editor's Note: This is the first in a series of articles about the U.N. Oil-for-Food program. Check back Sunday for the next installment and watch FOX's "Breaking Point" on Sunday at 9 p.m. EDT for an hour-long special on the Oil-for-Food program."
And this will be followed by extensive coverage from NBC, CNN, ABC, and See-BS when, exactly?
Are those crickets I hear?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 11:06:06 AM ||
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Oops - meant to post to Page 1, for once.
Fred, Steve, Nefarious, et al. - can someone move it? Thanks.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 11:14 Comments ||
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#2
Zwounds! That was quick.
Thanks!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 11:26 Comments ||
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Zwounds! That was quick.
[puts down copy of "The Mayor of Casterbridge"]
Egad, Barbara, such a dreadfully archaic and violent oath will do nothing more than sow confusion amongst the ranks hereabouts. You ought to know better than that. This sort of blatant literacy will not be tolerated. Please dumb down all future postings. Consider yourself warned.
The jailed cleric accused of heading a militant group blamed for last week's Australian embassy bombing condemned the attack on Saturday, while accusing Indonesian authorities of trying to frame him. "I personally condemn the bombing (and) I am deeply sorry and express my condolences to the victims," Abu Bakar Bashir said according to his lawyer Wirawan Adnan who had visited the cleric in his cell in Cipinang Prison.
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't me."
Abu Bakar Bashir has been in jail since 2002, when he was convicted for minor immigration infractions. Prosecutors say they now plan to charge him with heading JI, and for a deadly bombing last year at the JW Marriott Hotel in Jakarta that killed 12. There has been speculation that he could also be charged over the latest embassy attack. Bashir has repeatedly denied any involvement in terrorism and claimed that Jakarta buckled under pressure from Washington to arrest him as part of a crackdown on Islamic activists in the world's most populous Muslim nation. "I deny all accusations that connect the bombing with me," Bashir said. "I had nothing to do with the Kuningan bombing, the Marriott bombing or any other bombing. Terrorists must be punished and eliminated for good." Adnan told reporters that Bashir was convinced that the police were trying to make him a scapegoat to cover up their failure to prevent terrorist attacks. "At the time of the Marriott bombing I was locked up for eight months. How can that be?" Bashir said, according to his attorney.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/18/2004 5:54:53 PM ||
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If you read the mouse print at the bottom of all his statements, the only thing that Bashir really "condemns" is how so many of these recent bombings have killed only Muslims and not any dreaded westerners.
I say let's lock Bashir up in hard solitary for several years without any communication at all and see if the bombings stop. Even if they don't, it will still have been a worthwhile experiment.
The Indonesian police detectives are still working to find the house where the Australian Embassy bomb was made. National police chief General Dai Bachtiar said here on Saturday that the van used in the bombing had first been taken to houses West Java and then Banten and later Jakarta before it was used. "We have found the houses in West Java and Banten but we are still searching the house in Jakarta," he said. According to witnesses, he said, the house in West Java had been used, not for making the bomb, but only for storing the materials.
Bet the neighbors were really happy about that...
He said the police already had captured a man who was close to alleged bomb suspect Azahari. He said the man known by his initials as AAH had been named a suspect and confessed that Azahari had once stayed in his house and had kept four boxes and six bags of bomb materials in the home of his relatives. "The problem is that the suspect is not the perpetrator of the bombing," he said.
Merely an accomplice, y'mean?
Dai said the police had so far examined 79 persons and arrested 10 others in connection with the case. He said that four persons had been named suspects so far including AAH, and three others known by their initials UB, IS and TN, who were captured on charges of harboring Azahari and also involvement in the bomb plot. "We have also detained several people in Banten for investigation," he said. Dai added that the police could not as yet confirm how many people were in the van that carried the bomb. He also said he believed they got the bomb materials through smuggling.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/18/2004 5:52:03 PM ||
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The United States must bolster intelligence assets in Africa and prevent Saudi financing to the continent, deemed a major arena for al-Qaida and related groups, asserts a new report, according to Geostrategy-Direct, the global intelligence news service. The Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies said Africa, home to more than 300 million Muslims, represents a major terrorist challenge to the United States.
I see they've be reading Rantburg.
In a report, the center said the U.S. intelligence community must increase its human assets and monitor such trends as the financing of al-Qaida as well as the smuggling of man-portable surface-to-air missiles. "Specifically, the administration should increase pressure on the Saudi government to regulate financial flows by Saudi charities to Madrassas in Africa at the same time that the United States demonstrates the seriousness of its commitment to expand educational opportunities," stated the report, "Rising U.S. Stakes in Africa." The center also said the United States must increase its diplomatic presence in Africa and "dramatically expand human intelligence and language training."
A key goal is to tighten controls over Islamic insurgency financing through the diamond trade. On Sept. 9, the U.S. Treasury Department designated the U.S. and Comoros branches of the Saudi-based Al Haramain Foundation as financiers and facilitators of terrorism, including the 1998 al-Qaida bombings of U.S. embassies in east Africa. So far, more than a dozen branches of the state-sponsored Al Haramain, including the director of the organization, have been listed as facilitators of terrorism.
The report said any African initiative by the United States must include Sudan. In the 1990s, Sudan harbored al-Qaida, and Khartoum has remained a base for a range of Palestinian insurgency groups, including Hamas.
Now there's a boil that needs to be lanced.
"The administration should advance cooperation on counterterrorism with Sudan, with or without a peace settlement," the report said. Khartoum, which seeks its removal from the U.S. list of terrorist sponsors, remains vulnerable in any effort to achieve a peace settlement with rebel groups. The report recommended that the administration reaffirm a timeline to remove Sudan from the terror list as well as separate the counterterrorism track from other dimensions of U.S. engagement with Sudan.
No, first they stop, then we'll think about it.
In addition, the center recommended a reorganization of the Defense Department to facilitate an effective U.S. military presence in Africa. The administration is also urged to organize what the report termed an antiterrorism task force that would cover North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa.
I don't think they've been paying attention, the DoD has been there for some time. I guess they don't read us after all.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/18/2004 4:36:55 PM ||
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Despite obvious religious differences, someone really needs to point out to Africa's general population how Arab Muslims feel about blacks in general. Darfur would be a good place to start.
A top Uzbek rebel leader wanted by authorities in his home country might be hiding in the tense tribal region that forms the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, a senior Pakistani general said Saturday.
Doesn't everyone?
Army Maj Gen Niaz Khattak, responsible for military operations in the North and South Waziristan tribal regions, also clarified that the army had no information about the whereabouts of Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden or his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, who are also thought to be taking refuge in the region.
"Yes, Tahir Yuldash might be hiding here, and we have some information about it," Gen Khattak told reporters in Wana in western Pakistan.
"Not that we'll do anything about it, mind you..."
Yuldash, political leader of the rebel Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, was wounded in March when army raided a suspected Al-Qaeda hide-out on the outskirts of Wana, the main town in South Waziristan. But he managed to escape along with hundreds of other militants and since then the army has been looking for him. Khattak said the army has intensified its hunt for "foreign militants," hundreds of whom are believed to be hiding in South Waziristan.
I won't hold my breath.
Posted by: Steve ||
09/18/2004 4:25:29 PM ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
09/18/2004 2:11:23 PM ||
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#1
For sure, Omar was a humble man who was neither tutored in international politics nor did he comprehend the complications of world politics. He couldnât understand how supplies reached him from Pakistan or why the American government backed him against the other warlords, especially during attempts to build a pipeline that was designed to carry oil through Turkey and not Iran.
ignorant bastard
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/18/2004 15:42 Comments ||
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Aran News, the Saudi mouthpiece at its best. It was the Argentinians who got the deal for the pipeline and it was Pakistan who backed Mullah Omar. After the fall of Soviet Union America had no longer any reason to spend money on such or such warlord.
Tunisia's opposition Union of Democratic Unionists (UDU) party has called on its members to vote for long-time President Zain al-Abidin Bin Ali in next month's election, the official TAP news agency said Saturday. The UDU was backing Bin Ali because it felt the incumbent, who is running for a fourth, five-year term on 24 October, will continue "to drive the democratic process and realise the objectives of economic and social development," said UDU secretary-general Ahmad Inubli. The UDU will field candidates in the legislative vote that will be held on the same day as the presidential polls. Inubli was recently elected head of the UDU after his predecessor, Abd al-Rahman Tlili, was sentenced to nine months in jail for abuse of power while in public office. Bin Ali announced on 3 September that he will stand again in the October elections. He is able to do so after a constitutional amendment approved by 99% of the voters in a referendum in May last year abolished a three-term limit on presidential mandates.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/18/2004 2:01:01 PM ||
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"They keep killing us and raping us and destroying our homes! And all the UN does is yap. It's just frustrating!"
"There's so many of them, we can't kill them all! It's just frustrating! That's what it is!"
Posted by: Fred ||
09/18/2004 1:53:10 PM ||
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Iraqi Airways resumed international flights with a plane taking off today from neighbouring Jordan. It was the state airline's first such flight since 1990 when United Nations sanctions were imposed on Saddam Hussein's regime. The flight from Amman to Baghdad "left earlier today and we expect another one to fly from Baghdad to the Syrian capital later in the day," said an airline spokesman. "This is the start of regular flights by Iraqi Airways," he added. As of today, Iraqi Airways will fly once daily to Amman and Damascus, he said. Another route to the United Arab Emirates will be added to the airline schedule at a later stage. Today's Iraqi Boeing 737, flight number IA164, left Amman's Queen Alia International Airport at 08:30 (0430BST) bound for Baghdad Airport. The spokesman declined to say how many passengers were on board.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
09/18/2004 11:15:57 AM ||
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The terrs should be bringing up the SA-7s right about... now!
Posted by: Fred ||
09/18/2004 11:17 Comments ||
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Whirlpool was within its rights to tell a Muslim plant employee that he could not take a few minutes a day to say his religion's required sunset prayers, a federal jury decided yesterday. The decision was a rebuff to Somali-born plaintiff Ibrahim Farah. Whirlpool argued that allowing the practice for all its Muslim employees would have been too disruptive at its La Vergne assembly plant. ''I thought that a religion was trying to dictate to a private entity,'' said juror Gordon Stannerd. The three-day trial before U.S. District Judge Aleta Trauger culminated two years of litigation that pitted a religious duty against the production schedules of an air-conditioner manufacturing line. The eight-member jury took about an hour to reach its decision yesterday.
Attorneys for Farah had described Whirlpool's refusal to allow their client about five minutes of prayer each evening as evidence of religious discrimination. They argued that the plant where Farah worked from 1996-2001 was rife with prejudice against Muslims who took seasonal jobs at the Whirlpool factory. But David J. Parsons, Whirlpool's lead attorney, countered that the corporation had welcomed its growing number of Muslim employees and had accommodated their religious needs, implementing dietary changes at the company cafeteria and permitting headdresses as long as they were within safety guidelines. Fierce competition had forced the company to trim its salaried employees drastically, he said, at a time when its ranks of seasonal workers were rapidly filling with Muslims such as Farah. Having as many as 40 Muslims at one time leave the assembly line to pray for a few minutes each evening was more than Whirlpool could reasonably allow, Parsons said. The jury agreed.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
09/18/2004 10:37:24 AM ||
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Oops! Looks like the defense didn't do a very good job vetting the jury.
They should have gotten fewer normal people and more PC moonbats.
Who don't actually, you know, work for a living.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 11:16 Comments ||
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Would the plaintiff prefer: allow them to pray, but allow the company to discriminate against those who take time off to pray?
Posted by: Frank G ||
09/18/2004 11:29 Comments ||
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I'd let 'em kiss the ground if they need too, else they'll be rolling their eyeballs and that brings workmans comp issues.
#4
Oops on me. I meant the plaintiff's lawyer didn't do a good job of vetting the jury, of course.
Is it morning already? ;-{
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 12:05 Comments ||
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Farah had testified in the same courtroom where he once took the oath to become an American citizen. He had survived the civil war in his native East African home, fled as a refugee to Kenya and eventually settled in Nashville in 1994. He testified that he was torn between following his faith and earning a paycheck at one of the few good jobs he could find in Nashville.
Did anyone else have the word "ingrate" spring to mind? Let's examine the facts: Another country allows you to successfully immigrate from your wartorn sh!thole of a birthplace. They award you citizenship and an employer bends over backwards to accomodate your religious beliefs. You're getting a good paycheck and yet none of the foregoing munificence can possibly restrain you from squalling about how you should be given a chance to drag down all of your coworkers' productivity because your religion's eggshell collective ego commands that you prostrate yourself repeatedly each day as a confirmation of your piety.
At some point naturalized citizens should be able to have their status revoked due to a failure to integrate. Ibrahim Farah sounds like a great place to start, then we should work down the rank and file of CAIR.
#6
If you make allowances for the religious needs of muslims to take time off the assembly line to make evening prayers, what do you tell charismatics when they want to handle serpents on the line? Maybe if you let them handle serpents while the muslims pray......
KARACHI: President Pervez Musharraf would be violating the constitution if he reneged on his pledge to step down as army chief later this year, a former chief justice of Pakistan's Supreme Court said yesterday. Musharraf, who seized power in a bloodless coup in 1999, had promised to give up his military post by December 31 under a deal with the six-party Islamic alliance of Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA). Information Minister Sheikh Rashid had announced on Wednesday that Musharraf would not stand down as army chief but he clarified a day later that he meant to say he hoped the president would retain command of the armed forces. "He will be violating the constitution if he retains both the posts," former chief justice Sajjad Ali Shah said.
"It will be better for him, for the army and for the country if he keeps one post," the ex-chief judge said. Musharraf is bound under a constitutional amendment adopted after the agreement Musharraf reached with the MMA, Shah said. Under the deal, the alliance agreed to support a parliamentary vote to approve constitutional changes empowering the president to sack the government and to dissolve the elected parliament. Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz on Thursday joined calls by several ministers for Musharraf to stay as head of the powerful army. "In my opinion the president should remain in uniform in the national interest," said Aziz, a close ally of Musharraf who became prime minister last month.
Another former Supreme Court judge, Fakhruddin G Ebrahim, said there was a constitutional bar on Musharraf keeping both posts. "December 31, 2004 is the last day for him to remain in uniform and any decision otherwise would be a violation of the constitution," Ebrahim said. The president cannot remain in uniform even through an act of parliament as suggested by some ruling party members, he added. The ruling Pakistan Muslim League has decided to move resolutions in federal and provincial parliaments urging Musharraf not to give up his uniform. While I'm not particularly happy with Perv, who else is there to run the show in Pakistan that isn't (even more) in bed with the terrorists?
Posted by: Zenster ||
09/18/2004 2:05:00 AM ||
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Communist Party paper knocks Bush,
says Kerry represents 'hope for peace'
A year ago, as WorldNetDaily reported, the Communist Party USA decided it would not run a candidate for president in 2004, choosing instead to form a "united front" to stop the re-election of President Bush. Until recently, the party's official newspaper, People's Weekly World, focused its editorial slant on bashing Bush, rather than praising Sen. John Kerry. But with Kerry fading in some polls, the Communists appear to be pulling out all the stops — switching from just criticizing Bush to saying positive things about Kerry.
This week, the paper took particular comfort in Kerry's harsh criticism of the war in Iraq. In a front-page headline, the paper announced: "Kerry slams war costs." The lead article in the current edition of the Communist Party paper explains that the Democratic Party candidate for president "articulated the hope and the anger that workers and their families are feeling." The paper quoted Kerry in a speech in Toledo, Ohio, as saying: "And now every American is paying the price. Almost all the casualties are the sons and daughters of America. And nearly 90 percent of the cost is coming out of your pocket. The price tag so far: $200 billion and rising every day ... $200 billion we're not investing in health care ⊠not investing to make sure no child is left behind ... $200 billion we're not investing in new and better jobs ... in homeland security, to protect our airports, our subways, our bridges and tunnels."
"Workers are not naive," the article concludes. "They do not expect that if Kerry wins, the war in Iraq will end Nov. 3. What they are looking for is hope for peace, a shot at a decent job, a chance for health care coverage, an opportunity to put their issues on the table in Washington, a president who tells the truth and upholds the law, and a government that reflects their moral values in reality."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
09/18/2004 1:46:55 AM ||
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A ringing endorsement from these guys is the kiss of political death, heh heh. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/18/2004 12:24 Comments ||
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What's the problem here?
He cooperated with the Communists in the early 1970's, and they're just returning the favor.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/18/2004 13:27 Comments ||
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Which of Kerry's war criticism's are they endorsing? Today's or yesterday's or last month's? Are they ignoring his support of the war, assuming it was merely political rhetoric? This is just too nuanced for me - my brain hurts.
To me this is actually the scariest idea they stated:
... and a government that reflects their moral values in reality.
#5
Actually, if you look back at the past few elections (starting 1992 or 1996), the CPUSA has backed the Democrat for President. When the USSR went belly-up and the funds stopped flowing in, they stopped running their own candidates.
Why don't they back the Green or one of the other Socialist/Communist parties? I suppose the bitter factional hatred between Leninists, Trotskyists, Stalinists, Maoists, Castroists, et al, is part of it.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
