A few weeks ago we didn't even know that there was a city called Beslan in North Ossetia. It is also appalling that we would remember it nebulously again after some weeks passed somehow like this: 'Beslan? Was there the hostage drama where school children became hostages, wasn't it? Yes, it was.' And people living there will remain under its effects not only for some weeks but may be for all their life. International humanitarian aid shipments have been arriving, also from Hungary. Läszló Czimre, contributor of the Hungarian Interchurch Aid has the task to survey the claims on the one hand, and to cooperate in distribution in the other hand.
'The city is very sad, and almost desolated. Hardly people can be seen on the streets. 1476 people were affected altogether by the action of the terrorists taking hostages. This is approximately three thousand families, nearly one third of the city' said Läszló Czimre, contributor of the Hungarian Interchurch Aid, program leader of the North Caucasian area since 2001. The security conditions became very strict, transport is extremely difficult inside the Republic, and all borders towards Ingushetia and Chechnya are fully closed until now. There are not any significant changes; rather the people's attitude to strangers has changed. They look quite suspiciously at anyone who is not from Beslan. This is a small city, everyone knows all the others and of course, atrocities sometimes happen for this in town. For instance, inhabitants stop anyone in the streets they don't know and ask them where they are from, why they are here, and ask them to go away. This kind of fear is inside people nowadays.
- Are foodstuffs available?
'Of course, North Ossetia is do an operating, self-sufficient republic. Life goes on, so plants, factories, shops are open, people work, education has already begun too, exactly on this week. According to a regulation of the Home Secretary, armed police guards protect every school 40 minutes before starting the lessons and for 40 minutes after tuition.
- What are your experiences? Could people return to their normal daily round after so little time passed?
'This is interesting, because some children go to school yet, but divers of them simply refused to go to school. Either family fully closeted themselves, so they do not even let us communicate with them. It depends on the personality, how one can cope with this trauma. The great mass, especially the children, seem to be able to exceed this problem earlier. We talked about this to the chief medical officer of the Beslan hospital, who said that the final coping with such a trauma also depends on the age of the patient, but it may take two or three years in case of children. The news is here that the terrorists committed excesses inside the school, which means that they did violence on women, forced children for fornication and then shot them and threw them out of the window.
- Psychiatrists and psychologists are sent to the area from Moscow. How far is the psychical assistance enough?
'40 psychologists arrived to Beslan and Vladikavkaz from Moscow university of psychiatrists, who carry out their mission in a 24 hour service. Their staying is even more justified, because psychical problems more and more turn out by the time passing and more people look for a psychologist. Restarting of communication, especially towards the children for example, means a major assistance because they were formally frightened of going to school, so they needs induction again that school is not a bad place. There are centres in the child clinic in Vladikavkaz and in the Beslan hospital, where psychologists are continuously available or they attend to families and to hospitals for personal trainings with the children. There are families, where the mother is dead, the child is in hospital with injuries and then the father and a grandparent left, so circumstances are incredible. I talked to a family in which the mother was wounded but she is already at home, her husband is between live and dead in Vladikavkaz, her younger daughter is in Beslan as an injured, her elder daughter is registered as vanished and she is with one of the grandparents. Think over, how can these conditions cope with.r younger daughter is in Beslan as an injured, her elder daughter is registered as vanished and she is with one of the grandparents. Think over, how can these conditions cope with.
#1
This story --- the aftermath of the terrorist attack on the school --- needs to be brought up in the MSM. This is a graphic picture of what the enemy does to ordinary, decent people. The psychological injuries inflicted upon these children may take 3 years to get over. I think that it will be more like a lifetime. The trauma will become scars or non-healing wounds that will be there in the minds of these children all their lives. The world, or at least our country must not let this happen to others.
I feel like we are heading toward an abyss when I see my 8 year old son. Terrorists would not hesitate to do this at any school if they had the means, even his school.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/07/2004 14:57 Comments ||
Top||
#2
How can we help them from outside?
Arm them. Motivate them. And cheer their worst excesses. Time to erase Chechnya.
#5
PR, you recommended killing them all, leading your readers to assume you included nursing mothers and their babies, kittens, and fluffy baby ducks on the list. If you mean 'all' to include only those involved in planning, waging and otherwise involved in terror activities, you need to specify that. Ok?
#6
What's the difference between "erase" and "all" as mentioned above? I know, I know, Arafat's thugs and Hamas only pick buses with adult males to blow up. The Hilton explosion happened today after the women and children were told to leave so only the adult males can get killed.
The only way to defeat terror is to out-terrorize your opponent. Yes, that includes nursing mothers, babies, kittens and rubber duckies.
#7
PR - It's not an acceptable goal to terrorize the population, if you're a secular western nation. You can, however, endeavor to inflict painful cause/effect lessons until the population is pacified. That means, if a Qassam attack comes from Gaza, you don't destroy Hebron. If there are human shields, I call it societal collateral damage for the Paleos, but there have to be limits or you are as bad as your enemy. Targetted (with reasons) annihilation is acceptable (at least to me) - mass slaughter will lose your internal popular will to fight as well as support (like from the U.S.) abroad. Hope I explained that as I understand it?
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/07/2004 22:21 Comments ||
Top||
#8
Frank: It's not an acceptable goal to terrorize the population, if you're a secular western nation.
I must respectfully call bullsh*t on this statement. We did terrorize the populations of Germany and Japan, back when we actually knew how to make our enemies understand they were defeated. This target response that we're doing, though technologically miraculous, plays right into the hands of an enemy that hides among the folds of an approving populace.
#9
FG,
I am not saying if a missile comes from Gaza, attack Hebron. If a missile comes from Gaza, attack Gaza. If the terrorist know that if they can fire a missile and then go and hide among women and children in a apartment building, then they will keep on doing it. But if you destroy(after obtaining accurate intelligence) that building, then the regular population will think twice about harboring the terrorists. No one can ever win terrorism with a "secular western nation" mentality. You can win wars with "secular western nation" mentality but NOT terrorism. I will tell you what, give me an example where terrorism has ever been defeated by executing your version of success. I just don't see the difference between killing 3000 Paleo's over a period of 3 or 4 years and killing about a thousand at once, to STAMP OUT terrorism in that orginating area-including terror leaders. The U.S and Israel have been fighting terrorism for over 30 years, because of all these baby steps that are being taken. I guess your suggestion is to fight terrorism little by little for the next 200 years so that only a few will die each month.
#10
good points BH and PR - but I strongly disagree -BH: Germany and Japan were nations at war. Destroying their national will and population tapped for military service was acceptable. I'm not saying this makes sense, but it is true. PR - a successful war on Paleo terror will cause many civvy casualties for the reason you note. The point is not to seek out those civilian deaths as the Paleos do. Israel and the US need to make the consequences on those wishing to go along without criticizing the extremists in their midsts hard enough to cause a societal schism and civil war for the Paleo future. They have to want to put down the intifada from within. Once the fence is done, and they keep shooting stupid aimless rockets with massive retribution, it will become obvious to everyday Paleos that there is no future in following teh extremists (or living close to their launch points). I bow to nobody here in my support for Israel's security. I just want the people, state, culture, and democracy that I support to be there as it is now, when it's all done.
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/07/2004 23:06 Comments ||
Top||
#11
I have no doubt that you are pro-Israel. We will agree to disagree.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/07/2004 11:39:14 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"Sentences for desertion in peacetime range from life in prison at hard labor to a dishonorable discharge. Because the United States and North Korea were not technically at war in 1965, it was not clear which category Jenkins' case would fall into."
Sentence him to live in North Korea for the rest of his life and don't spend too much cash on executing the sentence.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/07/2004 22:01 Comments ||
Top||
#2
The frail 64-year-old has been put back in uniform and assigned to clerical duties with a new unit.
Probably a dishonorable discharge, and as quickly as possible; given his age and physical condition, a sentence of life or life at hard labor would most certainly be appealed and likely overturned.
At least he was declared a deserter. There was one case of a sailor jumping ship in 1929 and either wasn't declared, or the paperwork never made it in. Fast-forward to 1988. Sailor is now senile and in a rest home. Wife remembers him saying he was once in the Navy, checks with the VA, who refers it to NMPC (now BUPERS). Sailor was never discharged.
Long story short: sailor gets 100% disability, and 59 years back pay as an E1.
Caution??? lol Somebody is nervious
JOHN LEICESTER
France urged caution Thursday in dealing with a U.S. inspector's allegations it was involved in corruption at the U.N. oil-for-food program in Iraq, while others singled out in the report rejected the charges as "far-fetched." This Frog is in far left field!
The report issued Wednesday by Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, said Saddam Hussein issued secret vouchers for the purchase of oil, which could then be resold at a profit, to an array of officials and political figures from various countries, mainly Russia, France and China. The report named former French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua, Indonesian president Megawati Sukarnoputri and the Russian radical political figure Vladimir Zhirinovsky as voucher recipients and implicated foreign governments, including Namibia and Yemen. Zhirinovsky, who frequently traveled to Saddam's Iraq and had called for increased trade between the two countries, adamantly denied the claim in the report, which also cited top Russian oil companies Yukos and Lukoil as recipients. "I never took a drop (of oil), or a single dollar from Iraq or from any other country. I have never dealt with oil," the Interfax news agency quoted Zhirinovsky as saying Thursday. "I do not care what someone might have received, I personally gained nothing." Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Marty Natalegawa also rejected the accusations. (I am not a crook!!)
"There is no credence to these allegations," Natalegawa said. "It's a fact that we took part in the oil-for-food program, but this notion of vouchers is far-fetched. There were no dealings other than the oil-for-food." The Namibian government also was quick to proclaim it had never received vouchers from Saddam or purchased any oil from Iraq. "We never had any connection to Saddam Hussein. My president has condemned Saddam Hussein," Information Minister Nanjolo Mbumba said in a telephone interview from Windhoek. He added that Namibia buys all its oil from South Africa. Pasqua's office said the former interior minister, who recently won a Senate seat and the parliamentary immunity that it confers, was not immediately available for comment. But French Foreign Ministry spokesman Herve Ladsous counseled caution, saying the allegations weren't checked with the people or countries involved. "It is important to assure oneself very precisely on the veracity of this information," he said. "We understand that these accusations against companies and individuals were not verified either with the people themselves or with the authorities of the countries concerned." (Give us a break)
Russia's Foreign Ministry expressed its support for the investigation into the alleged bribes. "The investigation that is being conducted should result in an objective picture of possible irregularities that could have been committed under the oil-for-food program," Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko said. (Yes comrade, everything is perfect in the peoples paradise)
"Russia, like all countries, is interested in the results of this investigation being objective," he said, according to the Russian news agency Interfax. Yukos and Lukoil officials also could not be reached for comment. The names of American companies and individuals who may have been involved in oil deals weren't released because of U.S. privacy laws, the report said. (I think some of us would not mind reviewing those as we sit at the bloody gas station.)
Separately, Swiss authorities said Thursday that the owner of a Geneva-based oil trading firm has been fined $39,500 for making illegal payments for oil contracts in Saddam's Iraq and 10 more companies could be investigated.
(ooppps ...what's this??)
The State Secretariat for Economic Affairs fined the head of the company for paying $60,000 to win a contract for the purchase of Iraqi crude oil under the U.N.'s oil-for-food program, said spokesman Othmar Wyss. Iraq failed to honor the contract and did not sell any oil to the company, despite the payment, the secretariat said. Wyss declined to name the person or the company involved. (The plot thickens ..mmm)
The oil-for-food program was designed to allow limited oil sales to pay for humanitarian goods, but critics and U.S. congressional investigators have long alleged that administration of the program was rife with corruption and failed to prevent illicit business deals and massive kickbacks to the Iraqi government. And please readers let us not forget which pipeline was used to allow all this Iraqi crude to flow and be re-labled... SYRIA!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 3:08:00 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Duplicate posting.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/07/2004 15:12 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Pretty as picture
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 15:12 Comments ||
Top||
#7
Jules, very good idea, there are trade publications and records for each and every supertaker enter and exiting the Gulf.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 16:06 Comments ||
Top||
#8
I seem to remember a couple stories about ships carrying oil of suspect origin-the stories came out in the 90s, if I remember correctly. At that time, it sounded like Russia was connected to the activity. Maybe there were joint ventures we haven't even tapped the surface of yet.
#10
Dick Morris outlines the gang of thieves well in a FRONT PAGE magazine article in April : Dick Morris Article
The list of those receiving these bribes includes France's former French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua (who's a leader of Chirac's party) and Patrick Maugein, the head of the French Oil firm Soco International. France's former UN ambassador, Jean-Bernard Merimee, got vouchers to sell 11 million barrels.
#11
The CIA names names:
Among the alleged recipients of oil vouchers were Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri, former French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua, Russian ultranationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky and his Liberal Democratic Party, the Russian presidential office, the Russian Foreign Ministry, the Ukraine Community Party, the Ukraine Socialist Party, the son of Lebanese President Emile Lahoud and the Peoples Liberation Front of Palestine. There are also many others.
The only U.N. official on the list is Benon Sevan, the head of the humanitarian program for Iraq, who has been accused previously of receiving an oil voucher and has denied it several times. He is list as a Mr. Sifan, a U.N. official.
#14
Word on the street is you can pay France off but it doesn't do any good; just cheese eating surrender monkeys.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/07/2004 19:56 Comments ||
Top||
#15
Jules, Saddam Hussein had some pet Paletinian terrorist groups bivouacked in Baghdad up until the very end. Perhaps this is how he supported them? I'm sure that none of them had, y'know, paying jobs.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/07/2004 12:37:49 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Note Russia's stand:
Russia's Foreign Ministry expressed its support for the investigation into the alleged bribes. "The investigation that is being conducted should result in an objective picture of possible irregularities that could have been committed under the oil-for-food program," Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko said.
"Russia, like all countries, is interested in the results of this investigation being objective," he said, according to the Russian news agency Interfax.
Germany's intelligence chief said Thursday he believes that Osama bin Laden is alive and continues to exert influence in his al-Qaida terror network. "All indications are that he is alive," August Hanning, head of Germany's Federal Intelligence Service, said at a news conference. German intelligence officials believe, as they have for some time, that bin Laden is living in the Afghan-Pakistani border area, Hanning said. He did not specify which side of the border. "We continue to see traces of his activity. He tries to organize, to motivate" his followers, Hanning said. He did not elaborate.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/07/2004 11:14:50 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Translation: He's still cashing our checks.
Posted by: Random thoughts ||
10/07/2004 11:22 Comments ||
Top||
#2
All indications are that he is alive
Indications. Yea, I have indications God is alive too. But without seeing his face, it's a matter of faith whether he exists.
After two slow sales years of "Bin Laden Does Tora Bora" at the video store in Baghdad, not even the Arabs believe he is alive. Apparently, there are new directors in town. Their vids have better production values and use advanced marketing techniques such as beheading. Their vids have moved even porn off the top shelf. Poor Osama, he doesn't even rate bottom shelf these days. His vids are kept in the comedy section.
Show me the video where Bin Laden speaks of recent events please, then I am sure he will be back on top of the charts - number one with a bullet or should I say number one with a bomb. Then we will all know, not guess.
Call us when you have evidence Herr Hanning. Otherwise, stay out of our election.
#3
This article leads me to believe this guy is still geting checks from Saddam or Chiraq. How about it TGA?
Like this:Hanning also warned that violence in Iraq risks plunging the country into the chaos of a disintegrating "failed state" resembling terrorist havens like pre-Sept. 11 Afghanistan.
Or it may just be the AP liar reporter, TONY CZUCZKA , pronounced SUCK a, who then wrote U.S.-led airstrikes in Afghanistan ousted the Taliban in late 2001 for harboring bin Laden and al-Qaida. Right. US, British, Canadian and Australian troops on the ground and Afghan allies had nothing to do with it. It was those miracle air strikes.
Hanning suggested that Western nations are losing the battle for the hearts and minds of young disaffected Arabs. "I detect a still growing, generally anti-Western mood in the Muslim countries," he said. I wonder how much of it is attributable to the still growing, generaly anti-American mood in Europe that is reflected in the public statements of the French, Spanish and German governments. You eurojerk infidels better decide which side you're on 'cause your new Muslim masters are not likely to take as much shit as we do without reacting.
My doctor told me to stop this post before my blood presure gets to 4 digits.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/07/2004 18:05 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Its possible to "believe" in the tooth ferry. But, I've never seen one. Semantics reveal this guy is guessing. OBL is not much of a leader - he hasn't shown his face in several years - kind of hard to dig out I guess.
Top terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has called for attacks to be carried out in Germany against Jewish institutions and a disco, a report said Wednesday citing telephone calls intercepted by intelligence services. The report in Germany's Stern magazine noted, however, that the phone calls dated back to 2002. Zarqawi sought to organize suicide bombing of Jewish centres and disco in the western German city of Duesseldorf, said the report.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/07/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
Posted by samzenpus on Thursday October 07, @05:45PM
from the need-to-know-basis dept.
jaromil writes "Today at about 18:00 CET FBI raided the indymedia servers hosted by Rackspace both in US and England. At present, the italian indymedia and numerous other local IMC websites are obscured, while the reasons why the hard drives were taken are still unknown."
Thursday morning, US authorities issued a federal order to Rackspace ordering them to hand over Indymedia web servers to the requesting agency. Rackspace, which provides hosting services for more that 20 Indymedia sites at its London facility, complied and turned over the requested servers, effectively removing those sites from the internet.
Since the subpoena was issued to Rackspace and not to Indymedia, the reasons for this action are still unknown to Indymedia. Talking to Indymedia volunteers, Rackspace stated that "they cannot provide Indymedia with any information regarding the order." ISPs have received gag orders in similar situations which prevent them from updating the concerned parties on what is happening.
It is unclear to Indymedia how and why a server that is outside the US jurisdiction can be seized by US authorities.
At the same time an additional server was taken down at Rackspace which provided streaming radio to several radio stations, BLAG (linux distro), and a handful of miscellanous things.
The last few months have seen numerous attacks on independent media by the US Federal Government. In August the Secret Service used a subpoena in an attempt to disrupt the NYC IMC before the RNC by trying to get IP logs from an ISP in the US and the Netherlands. Last month the FCC shut down community radio stations around the US. Two weeks ago the FBI requested that Indymedia takes down a post on the Nantes IMC that had a photo of some undercover Swiss police and IMC volunteers in Seattle were visited by the FBI on the same issue. On the other hand, Indymedia and other independent media organisations were successfull with their victories for example against Diebold and the Patroit Act. Today however, the US authorities shut down IMCs around the world.
The list of affected local media collectives includes Ambazonia, Uruguay, Andorra, Poland, Western Massachusetts, Nice, Nantes, Lilles, Marseille (all France), Euskal Herria (Basque Country), Liege, East and West Vlaanderen, Antwerpen (all Belgium), Belgrade, Portugal, Prague, Galiza, Italy, Brazil, UK, part of the Germany site, and the global Indymedia Radio site.
#10
Can't visit the Rackspace website without getting the in your face live sales chat. So I asked "Jay" what was up with the bust. Jay gave me the one line response with a disconnect:
Jay: For all media inquiries, please contact Annalie Drusch at ....
Jay: http://adrusch@rackspace.com
I've got an account at Rackspace. Maybe I'll fill out a support ticket and ask them under what circumstances the Guvmint can take my hard drives without telling me about it. (Assuming that Indymedia wasn't given a reason for the seizure.)
#11
CL, IANAL, but the circumstances are they get a warrant from a judge. I'll bet Rackspace's attorneys have a copy and have told Indymedia what's on the warrant. Then ask the judege who issued it. In this case, it's probably terrorism related and so the judge won't tell them why it was issued. Things like that happen when you run in the wrong crowd. Look at Rush Limbaugh's medical records.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/07/2004 19:43 Comments ||
Top||
#12
I got 5 bucks says it's because they posted that list of RNC attendees and their adresses, etc.
#15
I don't think it's the RNC attendee list. I think it's something worse. But we probably don't get to find out about it for the reasons Mrs D. laid out. I'm going to take it on faith that the reasons are good. Funny thing is I've actually got an ecom site on my Rackspace server that Mr. Ashcroft would frown upon. (Nothing that would give a libertarian any pause.) In theory, the Man could come take my hard drives too.
I am a little curious about pulling the hard drives off UK servers. Is that because a US warrant covered Rackspace operations overseas, or because we got the Brits to do the deed for us?
#18
Just because your content is hosted over seas doesn't mean crap. Rackspave is a US corp. They will give you up if server with a warannt to do so. Also do you think Rackspace give a flying leap about Inyymedia? Rackspace cares about revenues, going with the FBI's flow makes the money continure to flow. Lawyers cost money. Not fighting doesn't
Inymedia is hardly independent. Liberal to extremeist left is what it is. These are people who claim because FOX is the most watched TV News in the US that conservatives dominate the media. It's an article of faith to them them that the media is biased to the right.
I suspect it's a conspiracy investigation or the investigation of theft of government documents or some such.
Finally can I get a big WHHHAAAAA? I didn't think so. I do have extra foil I will be glad to sell them.
I love the opportunity to add scads of folks to my foes list. Usually I just do it when I meta moderate but these chances are just precious. You get to read all kinds of loony frothing and freeking out.
Yea and badanov not keeping a mirror of your site off line some place if just stupid as you point out. That backup is all important if what you are doing amounts to more than what indymedia does which is mostly wanking in public.
... Miller said the students, St. Stephen School and the Oil City community have made his service in Iraq easier, and said some of what young people enjoy in a free America is what he is helping people attain in Iraq. He highlighted some changes Wednesday afternoon that have happened since Baghdad fell last year, ending the reign of Saddam. "We are making a difference," he said. "They are educating kids your age now that never had that chance. ... You can see kids waving at us. To see that, you know you're making a difference."
People in Iraq also are getting chances to earn livable wages with Saddam out of power. "The people are so appreciative they have the opportunity to work," Miller said. He encouraged the youngsters Wednesday to exercise their right to vote when they are old enough - another right the people of Iraq will enjoy early next year. With resistance to coalition troops stemming mainly from occupants of three or four Iraqi provinces, Miller believes fighting with those people dominates news coverage - not word of the good that stems from people in another 15 Iraqi provinces who welcome the U.S. and its allies. "On TV you might see a soldier with a weapon in his hand. ... That's 10 percent of what's going on over there. They don't report the good things. ... There are accepting and unaccepting people over there. You usually see the unaccepting people in the media," Miller said. "We have made a difference and will continue to make a difference," he added, saying coalition forces probably will remain in Iraq for at least five years as the country transitions into a democratic society and forces "give Iraq back to the Iraqis."
Posted by: Pithole Community Center ||
10/07/2004 8:44:06 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
Some context - Apparently he confessed and has now changed his mind and he says he confessed under torture. CLAIMS that Australian terrorist suspect Mamdouh Habib knew about plans for the September 11 attacks and helped train the hijackers were "absolute rubbish", his lawyer said today. Australian lawyer Stephen Hopper said papers presented by US government lawyers stated Habib knew in advance of plans for the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington. The papers also claimed Habib had given the hijackers martial arts training, and that he had considered piloting one of the hijacked planes himself, Mr Hopper said. "These claims are just a joke, absolute rubbish," said Mr Hopper, who is in the United States with Habib's wife, Maha, to brief lawyers preparing a civil case to free his client. "What they do reveal is that the US government has been torturing Mamdouh Habib and that's been confirmed by his own words."
Posted by: phil_b ||
10/07/2004 6:09:53 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
This was is with jihadis, the next one will be with lawyers.
I think we may class the lawyer in the natural history of monsters.
~ John Keats
Posted by: Fred ||
10/07/2004 7:17:07 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Saddam as John Gotti: that about captures it. Kerry likes to tout his BCCI sting and talks tough about cracking down on money-laundering. So where's his denunciation of Oil for Fraud?
EFL - Global test?
Members of an international panel studying United Nations' operations say the group hopes to lay down clear rules declaring when it is legal for a nation to use pre-emptive military force in its own defense. The issue grows out of the international controversy over the Bush administration's decision to invade Iraq without a final U.N. Security Council resolution explicitly authorizing the war, said panel member Gareth Evans, a former foreign minister of Australia. "I expect the panel to be giving close consideration to what those rules are and how they should be applied and whether an effort should be made to identify generally agreed criteria for the legitimate use of force, whatever the context," Mr. Evans said during a recent appearance at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington.
He made his remarks before last week's presidential debate in which Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry's call for a "global test" on when pre-emptive action is justified became a campaign issue. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan established the 16-member High-Level Panel on Threats, Challenges and Change in November to study ways to reform the 59-year-old organization so it can better address 21st-century threats to security and peace. But Mr. Evans, currently president of the International Crisis Group think tank, said much of the panel's work has focused on establishing detailed guidelines for the use of military force. "A central reason for our appointment was concern that the U.N., and indeed the whole multilateral security system, was really at a crossroads with the resurgence of unilateralism from you know whom, and increasing willingness to bypass the Security Council," Mr. Evans said in a clear reference to the Bush administration.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/07/2004 3:56:27 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Tell all this BS to the terrorists. I'm certain they will follow all these nice civilized rules. The UN is lala land-a corrupt lala land. Will the terrorists give up their children killing, head decapitation, and killing innocents ways? I don't think so. Our decisions for pre-emptive strikes cannot be decided by anyone else but us.
#2
Now see what Kerry's gone and done...he spouts off about a "global test" and now the UN is drawing one up. Be careful what one wishes for...it might come true!
#3
Hey! This may be GOOD. This report will give us all the ammo we need to get the hell out of the U.N. and tell Anna to go take a flying fark at a rolling donut....
Guidelines for the use of Force? Why don't they simply outlaw war? I'm sure that will work.
1. Donât harbor terrorists.
2. Donât provide training for terrorists.
3. Donât provide money to terrorists.
4. Donât provide (money) laundering services for terrorists (although they may need it).
5. Donât provide diplomatic cover to terrorists.
#5
This is going to be one exercise in absolute mental masturbation. Are any of the following a causus belli?
Violating terms of ceasefire.
Attempted assasination of ex-head of state.
Attacking civilian populations with poisons, ricin, anthrax.
Sponsoring/funding/sheltering terrorist attacks.
Destroying the center of a major city and attempting to kill 50,000 office workers, succeeding at 3,000.
Indoctrinating population that killing infidels assures one of heaven.
Kidnapping, torturing, and executing diplomats.
Torturing and killing foreign visitors, reporters.
Suicide bombing peacekeepers and navy ships at anchor.
Imploring, threatening defeat to the Great Satan.
Repressing one's own population, especially religous and racial minorities.
Enthic cleansing and genocide of minorities and infidels.
Destroying religious houses, monuments, and artifacts of the infidels.
Sponsoring the extermination of a religion and its practitioners.
Stating that one's enemies will be nuked as soon one can get nuclear weapons.
Are any of these a cause for war? Is anything? Should the west adapt by engaging in the above same methods but at a pace, scale, and technical sophistication that a rich high tech society is capable of?
Posted by: ed ||
10/07/2004 9:33 Comments ||
Top||
#6
"...the group hopes to lay down clear rules declaring when it is legal for a nation to use pre-emptive military force in its own defense."
Pretty cheeky, aren't they? Who do these people think they are, a World Government? They're going to "declare" when it is "legal" for us to defend ourselves?
I've got four words for the United Nations: "Fuck you. Get out."
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/07/2004 9:48 Comments ||
Top||
#7
I am surprised to hear an Aussie say something as stupid as "the resurgence of unilateralism from you know whom, and increasing willingness to bypass the Security Council" given the support we have received from Oz. I guess they have as much trouble with their diplomats as we do.
I wonder if flauting 16 UNSC resolutions during a truce will be sufficient to justify combat or if Clinton will come under ICC indictment for the illegal bombing of Serbia.
If these wingnuts had any sense, they would wait to pull this shit after the war is over when we've all gone back to watching the NFL instead of the USMC. If they tighten things too much, they may just drive us out of the UN. They should go back and check out why we didn't join the League of Nations. We can leave the UN for exactly the same reason with exactly the same result, except that next time. we won't pull anyone's Eurowenie out of the fire unless they make it worth our while.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/07/2004 9:59 Comments ||
Top||
#8
..This is the event that REQUIRES us to have a quiet little meeting with Kofi and tell him that this horses**t stops NOW, or we're gone.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/07/2004 10:07 Comments ||
Top||
#9
Violating terms of ceasefire.
I think so.
Attempted assasination of ex-head of state. Seems pretty clear. The counter argument is you need to act immediately, theres a statute of limitations effectively - blame slick willie.
Attacking civilian populations with poisons, ricin, anthrax. No, unfortunately. Genocide seems to be considered a CB, but again you need to act right away, not wait. In this case you can blame Reagan and Papa Bush, NOT slick willie.
Sponsoring/funding/sheltering terrorist attacks. Yeah, but if theyre against Israel, youd be saying youre going to war on a muslim state for the sake of Israel. Everybody from the Malaysian govt, to France, to Pat Buchanan will be on your case for that.
Destroying the center of a major city and attempting to kill 50,000 office workers, succeeding at 3,000.well, yeah, of course - that one is NOT in dispute.
Indoctrinating population that killing infidels assures one of heaven.No, and that wont change until something much worse than 9/11 happens.
Kidnapping, torturing, and executing diplomats.Yup. Of course if you do go to war, you cant let your choppers crash in the desert. Blame Jimmy, or the post-Viet Nam military?
Torturing and killing foreign visitors, reporters. Probably not.
Suicide bombing peacekeepers and navy ships at anchor.Yup.
Imploring, threatening defeat to the Great Satan.No. See above worse act.
Repressing one's own population, especially religous and racial minorities. As a general rule, no, but see below.
Enthic cleansing and genocide of minorities and infidels.Genocide - yes. Ethnic cleansing still a matter of controversy. US, UK, France and Germany said it was CB in Kosovo. Russia and China said no. Russia and China grudginly accepted the results of the war, but dont accept the legal principle.
Destroying religious houses, monuments, and artifacts of the infidels.No.
Sponsoring the extermination of a religion and its practitioners.See genocide above. Depends what you mean by "sponsoring"
Stating that one's enemies will be nuked as soon one can get nuclear weapons.The most interesting, and most relevant one of all. In general threatening war is not a CB, IIUC, - you cant go to war on rhetoric without an imminent threat. OTOH nukes are something else, obviously. And this is sort of unprecedented - no previous nuclear power, not US or Russia or China or France or UK, not Israel or South Africa, not India or even Pakistan, ever used this kind of rhetoric. We're on uncharted ground on this, and should it come to war over this, expect the international community to be divided.
#10
It'll take quite a bit of creativity to craft a statement that allows preemptive striking against terrorists who kill women and children -- all the while condemning Israel.
#13
it my understanding of the current state of international law.
as for all peoples live by? well thats something else. You can just about always manufacture SOME CB, if push comes to shove. And states DO violate international law - its not like theres a cop whos gonna show up at your door - its just that doing so repeatedly makes others a tad more reluctant to deal with you, is all. Which is sometimes a cost worth taking. And not all the above are universally accepted. Especially on ethnic cleansing. And of course theres always disputes about how you apply them in a particular.
For example the "Saddam violated the ceasefire" CB. Those who say the US had no CB say that the UNSC ratified that, and so only the UNSC can certify a war based on its violation. The counter is that despite Pappa Bush going to the UN for support he didnt need to - a state (Kuwait) has a right to self defense without going to the UNSC to do so, and it has the right to invite help in that defense. And further the Coalition made the ceasefire on its own behalf, not on the UNSC's behalf. Youre getting into legal nuance, as well as the details of what happened in the ceasefire negotiations in '91. In any case the Bush admin didnt push that, since they thought they COULD get UNSC backing in 2003. When they didnt, they scrambled ahead anyway.
#14
and of coruse there no "document on CB" its a multitude of treaties, UNSC resolutions, and actual practice. thats the way international law, such as it is, works.
#15
and of coruse there no "document on CB" its a multitude of treaties, UNSC resolutions, and actual practice. thats the way international law, such as it is, works.
#16
I suggest googling "international law Bosnia" for some interesting disputes on Aggression, CB, etc. For even more fun google on "international law Bosnia Quebec" or "international law Bosnia quebec cree James Bay" Youll find lots of unsettled and bitterly disputed matters.
#17
Let's not panic here. After all, this is a UN Resolution. A UN resolution is the equivalent to classroom rules developed by a middle school substitute teacher. Itâs just not going to be enforceable. The UN canât even hand out food.
Besides, if the UN wants to play with the big boys, then conversely, the U.S. Congress can come with its own mandate for pre-emptive strikes. This will override the U.N. So, even if the President of the U.S. is bugs bunny, he will have no choice, but to act.
#19
more significantly its only a report. The only UN body that can make international law is the UNSC, where we have a veto. Of course vetoing a proposal like this could be embarrasing, but its quite doable.
Yah, well, the Russkies and the frogs never accepted that we had a right to enforce the nofly zones anyway. As far as they were concerned THAT was aggression against Iraq. Of course they were clever enough not to make a big stink about it, seeing as how Clinton, who was harder to isolate than Bush, considered them OK. Thats one thing to keep in mind, the legal position of Chirac on Iraq is NOT the historic legal position of the Clinton admin, much though folks on both sides would have you think so.
#22
"The exercise is really to make the U.N. work so well in these areas that the U.S. wonât be tempted, or tempted as often, to walk away from the system,"
This isnt loony tunes, this is smart. Its saying look, the current system makes it so hard for the US, which is the number one power, and the global policeman against loonies, to do what it feels it has to do. This has made the US work OUTSIDE the system, which is BAD for the system, since it leads to the US disrespecting the system, and to others claiming the right to. We need to accommodate, within reason, what the US wants to do, IN ORDER to resuscitate international law.
Seems long overdue, to me.
Kinda like raising the speed limit to 65, so that the speed limit can have some real credibility.
Attacking civilian populations with poisons, ricin, anthrax.
Sponsoring/funding/sheltering terrorist attacks.
Destroying religious houses, monuments, and artifacts of the infidels.
Honest to God, is there any common sense in the international community anymore? I feel like we're trying to talk to people who bullheadedly insist the world is flat.
#24
"Honest to God, is there any common sense in the international community anymore?"
No. At least nothing other than what we ourselves provide.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/07/2004 10:54 Comments ||
Top||
#25
Now see what Kerry's gone and done...he spouts off about a "global test" and now the UN is drawing one up. Be careful what one wishes for...it might come true!
In this case, the panel was convened long before Mr. Kerry was nominated. It's more likely that the 'global test' remark is tied to the panel's work; the campaign probably has someone monitoring UN/foreign affairs matters.
#26
The real list of guidelines for when a pre-emptive strike would and would not be apropos according to the UN:
1: It must benefit the cause of tyranny.
2: It must harm the cause of liberty.
3: It must never uncover any dishonesty on the part of top UN officials.
4: It must never lead to a refutation of UN orthodoxy.
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
10/07/2004 10:55 Comments ||
Top||
#27
Members of an international panel studying United Nationsâ operations say the group hopes to lay down clear rules declaring when it is legal for a nation to use pre-emptive military force in its own defense.
Legal? And what would the UN do if these "rules" aren't followed? Imprison a country's president? Please.
Anyone playing along with this legality BS is as clueless as those proposing it.
Once again, this clearly is a CB. In international law. The US COULD go to war tomorrow against Iran, for their support to Hamas - assuming that we have clear proof of such support. We WONT go to war on that basis however, cause the last thing we want to do is say to the world that we're going to war cause of attacks on Israel. It sucks, dont it?
Attacking civilian populations with poisons, ricin, anthrax.
.
Destroying religious houses, monuments, and artifacts of the infidels.
Cause the basic principle of international law, for the last 350 years, is that states are soverign - they can do whatever the fuck they want in their own territory, and you cant invade them on that account. For an understanding of why this was adopted, it would be worth reading a history of the 30 years war.
In the 20th century this began to change, notably on the issue of genocide. Its still not quite universally accepted that genocide is a CB, and there are difficulties with exactly what constitutes genocide, and if there is a statute of limitations. Certainly there is no distinction in law between committing genocide with chemcial weapons and doing so with say, machetes. (of course then youd be in violation of other treaties regarding chemical weapons, but being in violation of a treaty is not usually a CB)
#30
Legal? And what would the UN do if these "rules" aren't followed? Imprison a country's president? Please.
International law is "self-enforcing" You dont follow it, and others dont wanna play with you as much anymore. Thats about it. International law says for ex, that when some drunk from the Georgian embassy runs down a little girl on the streets of DC, we gotta let him go. Now if we DIDNT let him go, would the forces of Russia, China and France descend on us? No, of course not. But wed have a harder time getting other countries to treat OUR diplomats according to principles of diplomatic immunity. We could always threatent to invade them every time they arrested a US diplo over some petty crime, but that would be a rather costly exercise over time. Better to let one drunken Georgian diplo go.
Does that apply when your existence is at stake. NO, obviously not. Does Israel care that the international community says the wall is illegal - no, it gives the middle finger to the international community, cause the wall saves lives. But even Israel would return a drunk driver homicadal diplo. Well, the problem for the international community, is that making the US (a more important player than Israel) give the middle finger to international law, tends to undermine all the places where international law is terribly useful - from things like diplo immunity, to the law of the sea, to aviation law, to about a thousand other topics. So its better to accomodate the US.
Its like banning pot, and not enforcing it. It undermines respect for everything else.
#32
#17 poison reverse: while I'm not panicking, it's worth looking at what these folks are trying to do. They've announced they will coordinate closely with the International Court of Justice on this initiative.
They hope the end result will be that US officials are subject to arrest in foreign countries and that they will have a basis to discriminate against the US in trade laws and subsidies once we are declared in breach of their "rules". Just because they can't enforce them directly doesn't mean these rules wouldn't be of great help to them in isolating and/or tieing us down.
#34
...the last thing we want to do is say to the world that we're going to war cause of attacks on Israel...
I will say the outrageous-I think attacks against Israel are a CB. The alternative? A Muslim state taking over the entire territory, using Saudi Arabian holy ground principles to bar Jews and Christians from setting foot inside Bethlehem, Jerusalem, etc. I understand what you are saying about world reaction, LH, but the world has no business denegrating American moral authority when it has so little of its own.
Cause the basic principle of international law, for the last 350 years, is that states are soverign - they can do whatever the fuck they want in their own territory, and you cant invade them on that account.
If this is the "rule", then it will have to be applied consistently, right? We can do whatever we want in our territory, and they can, too.
According to this philosophy, it would have been ok for Germany to slowly kill off their population a la Darfur--i.e., secret extermination camps tucked away in a sovereign territory, doing a slow, steady, and unverifiable job of extermination. The UN, had it existed at that time, might have found it difficult to call the holocaust genocide for the same reasons, but the result would have been the same: by the time the world was willing to call it genocide and do something, everyone within that group would already have died.
I can already hear RBers saying we didn't get involved in WWII to save the Jews; but without our entrance into that war, would the Jews in Europe have lived?
#35
Winning the war in Iraq, stabilizing the country, and promoting Iraq self-governance is a powerful message to other countries in the region.
I don't see israel being taken over by any Muslim countries in the region. It was a disaster for them in 1967. There is no reason to think it wouldn't be a disaster for them today. They made a pre-emptive strike against Iraq nuclear facilities in 1980s. and basically pissed off the region but little was done about it.
#36
I think you're right in terms of probability, JQU, but before the Iranians finish their nuclear bomb and put our notions to the test, it would be a good idea for us to clear up what is and isn't a just cause for war.
#37
Agreed Jules that it would be good idea to clear up what is and isn't just cause for a war. I just don't think the UN is going to clear this up in any meaningful way.
When it comes to trade, the EU is already trying to tie us down, without any new UN resolutions. I don't want to get into trade on this thread. I will save it for another thread.
"They've announced they will coordinate closely with the International Court of Justice on this initiative."
Here is basis for not panicking. Any cooperation with the International Court will need Senate ratification. I know, I know, what that jackass Clinton tried to do. He tried to sell this country down the river (ICC) while the Senators were on Christmas vacation. Bush stopped it dead in its tracks and thatâs wonderful. I am not panicking, because as long as we have strong Judeo-Christian and pro-(US) Congress, we will be just fine. There is strong pro-US Republicans and Democrats in our Congress that refuse to give our freedoms to the UN. There are some down right sell outs in Congress. There is a small revolution going on right now, here in the U.S. NO longer is the case, where a politician can get away with the things they used to get away with; without the bloggers in the Internet knowing about it. In other words, MSM is DEAD and thatâs great news. Also, there is a huge interest (uprising) in this country concerning politics. People are rising up one way or another and that is great for this country. MSM was rotten the core and was taking this country with it. I feel more confident in the future of this country now, than I did, just 7 years ago. I will give you an example, due to the enormous pressure in South Dakota, even the liberal pig himself; Tom Dashle is stating that he is now for making abortion illegal. He is against jail time for the offenders but I consider it progress. I give the Internet and its bloggers, the credit. As long as we have strong and politically active constituents, the UN canât do a damn thing to us.
By The Associated Press / Haaretz. Thu., October 7th, 2004 Tishrei 22nd, 5765
Once Iran is no longer able to assist Syria, since the mullahs will have their own major headaches very soon, Syria will be on her own.
WASHINGTON - Syrian President Bashar Assad is offering to make peace with Israel and says he is ready to cooperate with the United States in stabilizing Iraq, a former senior State Department official said Wednesday.
"Something is going on in Syria and it is time for us to pay attention," said Martin Indyk, assistant secretary of state for the Near East and U.S. ambassador to Israel during the Clinton administration.
In a three-hour meeting with the Syrian president last month in Damascus, Indyk said he detected a "clear change" in Assad's views on a number of fronts.
On peacemaking, Assad offered to hold talks with Israel without preconditions, Indyk said, and had made several overtures to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that the latter rebuffed.
In the past, Indyk said, Syria had insisted that any peace talks should resume where they left off during the Clinton administration - with Israel offering to give up all of the Golan Heights, a strategic area Israel won in the 1967 Mideast war.
And, Indyk said, Assad had dropped a demand that Israel reach an agreement with the Palestinians before Israel could resume negotiations with Syria.
On the domestic side, Indyk said, Assad spoke "about the need to reform the government."
"It's worth watching and it is worth testing," Indyk said at a seminar at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, of which Indyk is the director.
Indyk said Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa was not at his meeting with Assad, evidence the former American diplomat said that change was under way and that al-Sharaa "and others in the old guard are being systematically silenced."
On Monday, Assad shuffled his Cabinet. Ghazi Kenaan, 62, until two years ago Syria's top intelligence general in neighboring Lebanon, was named interior minister. Al-Sharaa retained his post.
Assad switches to cooperation with U.S. over Iraq
On Iraq, Assad "figured out he was on the wrong side" and has switched to cooperation with the U.S. occupation forces in the country, Indyk said.
On support for terrorism, Assad was responding to U.S. demands by moving some leaders of militant Palestinian groups out of Damascus, Indyk said.
Last month, Syria was praised publicly by Secretary of State Colin Powell for dismantling military camps in the hills near Beirut, Lebanon.
Powell told reporters after a meeting with Al-Sharaa that the redeployment of Syrian occupation forces in Lebanon was "a positive step."
At the same time, the State Department has continued to call for a crackdown on terror. And Syria remains one of seven countries branded by the department as sponsors of terror.
Thousands of Syrian troops also remain in Lebanon despite passage on September 2nd of a UN Security Council resolution calling for a withdrawal and for Syria to respect Lebanon's sovereignty.
Also, President George W. Bush's administration has accused Syria of pursuing biological and chemical weapons programs as well as nuclear weapons.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 3:30:22 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
I only have one problem with this. (bold below)
In my opinion, add salt to taste:
"Syrian President Bashar Assad is offering to make peace with Israel and says he is ready to cooperate with the United States in stabilizing Iraq, a former senior State Department official said Wednesday."
#2
Well, he IS stating that they want to cry mommy, Qaddafi-style, instead of backing Assad ... it's a start.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
10/07/2004 18:11 Comments ||
Top||
#3
I'll believe it when the words come out of Assad's own mouth, Ghaddafi style. Until then, detecting a clear change in A's views could as easily be wishful thinking.
The Mullahs know the clock is ticker faster, and faster ,and ...
PARIS - As a Persian proverb says, "Never two without three." After receiving two hard and insulting slaps in one week by the conservative-controlled majlis, or parliament, beleaguered Iranian President Mohammad Khatami suffered a personal blow when one of his closest allies and oldest friends decided to leave the cabinet.
Hojjatoleslam Mohammad Ali Abtahi, the vice president in charge of parliamentary and legal affairs, announced on Monday that he had submitted his resignation from the government and was waiting for the president to accept it.
A jovial middle-rank cleric with an unusual sense of humor and a penchant for sarcasm, Abtahi, who is in his 40s, explained that he had not been able to fulfill his job of coordinating the actions of the government with the new majlis, one that he had sharply criticized when it came into power in May thanks to the mass rejection of reformist candidates by the leader-controlled Council of the Guardians, a 12-member body empowered to vet all candidates for elections in the Islamic Republic.
"For some time I have reached the conclusion that given the differences between my political viewpoints and those of the parliament, I cannot fulfill my responsibilities," the outspoken Abtahi told the semi-independent students' news agency ISNA, referring to his previous attempts at leaving the government weeks after the inauguration of the new parliament.
A fearless critic of the hardliners with whom he often clashed, Abtahi was the first official to disclose that Canadian-Iranian photographer Zahra Kazemi had been murdered in custody after her arrest in June 2003, triggering a series of head-on confrontations between the leader-controlled judiciary and the executive branch of government.
Abtahi's decision came a day after the majlis, during its October 3 session, impeached by a large majority Road and Transportation Minister Ahmad Khorram, charging him with mismanagement, corruption, abuse of power, a spate of road and air accidents and favoring foreign firms in handing out government contracts.
The impeachment, considered a hard blow to the embattled president, was seen by most analysts, including Abtahi, as addressed not to the minister but to Khatami himself, and aimed at giving the so-called reformists their last shot.
The ousting of Khorram, the first minister to be impeached by the hardline majlis, took place while Khatami was in Algiers, the first leg of his tour of Algeria, Sudan and Oman, triggering a wave of harsh criticism, including among his own followers, accusing him of "betrayal".
Critics said that Khatami decided to leave the country to escape the difficult task of personally defending Khorram, also accused by the army of having endangered the nation's security by awarding a foreign firm, the Austrian-Turkish consortium Tepe Aftken-Vie (TAV), the handling rights of all services at the half-built Imam Khomeini International Airport (IKIA).
Inaugurated officially in May, the US$500 million IKIA had to be closed to air traffic just hours later by the armed forces, which suspected that TAV had contracts in Israel, the existence of which the Iranian ruling ayatollahs do not recognize.
The closure raised many questions, above all who ordered warplanes, one Russian-made MiG-29 and one aging Phantom F-14, to seal the capital's airspace and escort incoming international flights to other airports, including one in Esfahan, central Iran.
Under the Iranian military command structure, such decisions are made by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who, as the leader of the Islamic Republic, is also the supreme commander of the armed forces. "The question is simple: if someone except Khamenei can order military planes [to] take off, this person can also have access to the atomic button, the day the regime has its nuclear weapon," warned one political observer.
Similar charges were leveled against the minister in charge of the awarding of a contract to TurkCell, the Turkish company that won the bid to become Iran's second mobile-telephone operator.
Parliament's fist major affront to the now virtually powerless president was dealt on September 26 when lawmakers adopted a bill that forced the government to seek the authorization of the hardline-dominated majlis for all major contracts with foreign firms. Significantly, it was made retroactive to include the deals with both TAV and TurkCell. However, after officials informed the majlis that the cancellation of the agreements would cost Iran billions of dollars in damages and compensation, the majlis decided to exclude the Turkish firms.
This row broke on the eve of an official Khatami visit to Ankara, so cabinet decided to postpone the trip until the majlis has made up its mind on the controversial law, which a visibly angry president had described as "unjust and against the constitution", a law that not only paralyzes the actions of the government but also discredits Iran in the international arena and scares away the very few foreign investors willing to risk their money in Iran.
"This law, even though adopted with a tiny majority, would leave no respect for the president of this country. Will it not tell the world that one cannot sign any deal with the government of Mr Khatami? With all the enemies, the atomic problem and international economic pressures against Iran, will not the smoke of paralyzing the government and humiliating the president and his cabinet in the face of the world got directly into the eyes of the Iranian people?" Abtahi asked, writing on his personal Internet weblog www.webnevesht.com.
Government spokesman Abodollah Ramazanzadeh confirmed that Abtahi had discussed the issue of his resignation with Khatami, but added that he did not know whether the president had accepted it or not. But at the same time, he hinted that Khatami himself intended to stay in office until the end of his second and final term, due next May.
Abtahi served with Khatami when he was placed in charge of a Shi'ite mosque in Hamburg before the start of the Islamic Revolution of 1979, and has remained with him ever since, following Khatami in the now-hardline daily Kayhan, then in the Islamic Culture and Guidance ministry, in the National Library and finally in the presidency, where he held the post of the president's secretary during Khatami's first term from 1997-2001, before being made a vice president.
Analysts say Abtahi's confrontation with the majlis had reached a critical point, and even if he had not resigned, lawmakers would have forced Khatami to boot out Abtahi, one of their most hated opponents.
Though Khatami has seen other close friends and confidants, such as Hojjatoleslam Abdollah Nouri, his first Interior minister, and Ayatollah Mohajerani, in charge of Islamic Culture and Guidance, forced to leave the cabinet, the loss of Abtahi will cause Khatami to lose even more public respect, pundits predict.
According to observers, what the hardliners are doing is drying the roots of the reformism movement, and sowing in their place the seeds of neo-conservatism, a movement best embodied in Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, the head of the Assembly for Discerning the Interests of the State (ADIS, or Expediency Council), and Hojjatoleslam Hassan Rohani, the powerful secretary of the Supreme Council on National Security and Iran's senior negotiator on the country's controversial atomic project.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 2:33:56 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
A Phantom? Really?
"Aging" don't hardly cover it. Fat, slow, smokey and easy meat for an F-15 or a Hornet, is more like it.
#2
According to observers, what the hardliners are doing is drying the roots of the reformism movement, and sowing in their place the seeds of neo-conservatism, a movement best embodied in Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani,..
One problem: this plan does nothing to address the unhappiness of the population. When Ardeshir Publiq gets mad enough, it's going to be beddie-bye time for the "hardliners".
Reported elsewhere as a "unannounced, surprise visit"
Iran's mullah president left Muscat for Syria Thursday after wraping up a three-leg tour which took him to Algeria, Sudan and the Persian Gulf littoral state of Oman. During his two-day visit to Muscat, President Khatami has held separate brief talks with high ranking officials, including the Omani Mufti. Khatami plans to meet with Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad during his lightning visit to Damascus.
Methinks Khatami is a little worried Bashar is going wobbly on him.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/07/2004 1:28:21 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
This is a VERY interesting meeting ,,,which one gets the kiss off?
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 14:19 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Kto kogo?
Posted by: Vladimir Ilyich ||
10/07/2004 23:12 Comments ||
Top||
Arabic-language newspapers have reported in recent days that a Palestinian man identified as "Abu Amin" has been detained for questioning in Syria, on the suspicion that he aided Israel in carrying out a car bombing in Damascus on September 26, in which senior Hamas militant Iz a Din al-Sheikh Khalil was killed. Abu Amin had been a member of Ahmed Jibril'sPopular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command. According to the London-based Al-Hayat newspaper, police suspect that Abu Amin, a good friend of Khalil's made the telephone call which ignited the explosive charge attached to his car at around 11 A.M.
With friends like this...
Sources close to Abu Amin, who apparently quit Ahmed Jibril's organization two years ago, denied that Amin was involved in the assassination. "There were strong ties of friendship between them," a source told the paper. "Abu Amin called Khalil a number of times between Saturday and Sunday, and they are investigating if there is some connection to the explosion."
"Can you hear me now?"
Khalil was a Hamas militant based in Damascus. He was killed when a bomb attached to his Mitzubishi jeep detonated near his home in the the Az-Zahera neighborhood of Damascus. Palestinian sources say Khalil moved into the neighborhood a number of weeks ago after suspecting his prior home in the Maza neighborhood was under surveillance by "Arab intelligence agents."
Proving true the old rule, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."
Posted by: Steve ||
10/07/2004 1:14:24 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[7 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Interesting header: "Syria Arrests Man...". I, myself, never suspected a monkey or chimp did it...
Syrian President Bashar Assad is offering to make peace with Israel and says he is ready to cooperate with the United States in stabilizing Iraq, a former senior State Department official said Wednesday. "Something is going on in Syria and it is time for us to pay attention," said Martin Indyk, assistant secretary of state for the Near East and U.S. ambassador to Israel during the Clinton administration.
This is something to watch. If anything actually comes of it, it'll be more significant than Muammar throwing in the towel. But I imagine there's going to be a surge in our direction, but then it'll subside. But I don't know enough about Syria or Assad to be sure...
In a three-hour meeting with the Syrian president last month in Damascus, Indyk said he detected a "clear change" in Assad's views on a number of fronts. On peacemaking, Assad offered to hold talks with Israel without preconditions, Indyk said, and had made several overtures to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that the latter rebuffed. In the past, Indyk said, Syria had insisted that any peace talks should resume where they left off during the Clinton administration - with Israel offering to give up all of the Golan Heights, a strategic area Israel won in the 1967 Mideast war. And, Indyk said, Assad had dropped a demand that Israel reach an agreement with the Palestinians before Israel could resume negotiations with Syria.
On the domestic side, Indyk said, Assad spoke "about the need to reform the government." "It's worth watching and it is worth testing," Indyk said at a seminar at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, of which Indyk is the director.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/07/2004 12:31:00 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[5 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"...former senior State Department official... In a three-hour meeting with the Syrian president last month in Damascus..."
Can anybody tell me why this FORMER official is meeting with Assad for three hours?
Posted by: Tom ||
10/07/2004 7:59 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Indyk is a Brookings Scholar and hence a former State functionary. Heâs considered quite the expert on the Middle East, specifically the Levant and Iran-Iraq.
Probably quite a long list of TTD's conveyed to Assad, in order to avoid the inevitable if he does not shape up. Of course, in diplo-speak, that takes about 6 times longer than in a normal human language. So, you can say that in real terms, the meeting lasted about 30 minutes.
#5
Who knows what was said by Indyk. As a former State employee he has greater lattitude in speculating without establishing US policy but at the same time being very well informed about it. Perhaps he told Assad that Syria was not the next guy in the gun sights, that is Iran. But that to assure we had no problem with Syria on our backside we were carefully coordinating schedules of operations and supplies of JDAMS with Israel. Anything could be said. And in spite of being a diplomat, he might even have told the truth, whatever it is.
Interestingly, it's all up to the American people on November 2. If we show we've got the intestinal fortitude to stick it out with Bush, tyrants like Assad are sure to notice and factor it into their calculations.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/07/2004 8:54 Comments ||
Top||
#6
This is Assad's version of rope-a-dope. He'll bring things back to status quo ante when he thinks the pressure is off. We can trust this guy when he's dead, and not a moment before.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
10/07/2004 9:04 Comments ||
Top||
#7
Bashar is only 34 years old and considered in excellent health. As his late father Hafez rolled toward death Bashar was groomed to be his successor. The biggest concern being whether Bashar could co-opt the military. Apparently he has and may now be in a better position to follow through on modernizing the country, opening up/firming up relations with the US and, something he hinted to early onâ¦reaching an accommodation, if not a treaty with Israel.
#8
i guess the question is was Indyk there with permission of the US govt? Perhaps a "deniable" envoy? Surely not as a representative of the Kerry camp? (anyone know anything about Holbrookes relation with Indyk?)
#9
LH, Who knows? Would those who know tell the truth? JFK used jurnos to comunicate with Rusia during the missile crisis, so stranger things have hapened. Interesting words. Actions to folow will be much more interesting.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/07/2004 10:03 Comments ||
Top||
#10
In little black letters, just over the headline:
#12
He has plenty of enemies within his own camp he needs to keep leashed up. He is almost as popular as Perv in Pakistan. If he can make a calculation that keeps him in power and allows him to make changes, maybe he sees a long term gig as ruler/president is possible. He needs to get out of our gunsights first, and it would be a very good thing if he sided a little more mainstream in the world community.
#13
If Iran goes down, than Syria starts going down. If Syria becomes too much of a pain in the ass for the US and/or Israel, then Syria will start going down. Assad knows this and is negotiating his way out a minefield. With all his trustworthy aides and military officers, he has to watch his six...........and his three....and his nine...........and his twelve o'clock. "Damn! We're in a tight spot!"
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/07/2004 11:47 Comments ||
Top||
#14
Good points AP...Baby Assad sees the Mullahs heading for the big slap down nad he's scrambling to get out of the way. I don't see a big change of heart here...just survival instincts.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
10/07/2004 12:26 Comments ||
Top||
#15
Mrs D. - If we show we've got the intestinal fortitude to stick it out with Bush, tyrants like Assad are sure to notice and factor it into their calculations.
Well said ...
I think the Islamodoodles are waiting to see if the unwashed independents come with GWB in the end, insuring his Nov. victory...
#16
LH - surely Indyk was selected to ensure deniability for both Bush and Boy Assad. A good choice to get things started now, rather than waiting till November. Indyk's a well-qualified, discreet, experienced mideast expert.
Didn't the original "writing on the wall" take place on Syrian territory?
Posted by: Then There Was One ||
10/07/2004 13:24 Comments ||
Top||
#18
The more recent Iran Mullah Visits Syria posting may indicate that things are coming to a head in Syria. Both sides have a big stake in what direction Syria goes. The paleos and hizb'allah have a vital stake in the status quo in order to provide a base of operations against Israel. If the nutcases are kicked out of Lebanon and Syria, then Israel and Syria can work out a peace deal. That almost totally isolates the Paleos. A peaceful Syria would further isolate Iran big time. A peaceful Syria would have oil flowing in the trans Iraq pipeline, where they would again get some foreign exchange (and oil to supplement their depleted resources. All this depends upon Assad being able to make it happen without getting assassinated by his friends and enemies. I think that there are major things happening in Syria and that this is a tremendous opportunity for a breakthrough...... or your usual disaster.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/07/2004 14:09 Comments ||
Top||
#20
One tactic that works great against the rope-a-dope is the groin shot. Isn't this Assad's attempt to establish a roadmap that he can use as a shield from US agression. His Sadaam-like ploy won't be effective unless he has more bribe money staffed than has been advertised.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/07/2004 19:23 Comments ||
Top||
The French government believes that two French journalists taken hostage in Iraq may have been taken to Syria with the connivance of authorities in Damascus. French officials would not comment officially yesterday but suspicions were confirmed by a senior politician and reported by the newspaper, Le Figaro, which employs one of the missing men. The paper suggested Syria's intervention was "cynical" and even hostile but could lead, paradoxically, to the release of Georges Malbrunot and Christian Chesnot, captured by a mysterious opposition group in Iraq 49 days ago. The men are said to have been repeatedly moved around, with a final stop near Ramadi, in western Iraq before crossing into Syria, say sources in Muslim clerical circles in Baghdad. It might now be easier for Paris to negotiate "state to state" with Syria than with small groups of hostage-takers with "changeable moods", the newspaper said.
The Syrians are known for changing moods as well.
François Bayrou, head of the centrist UDF party, said after a briefing on the hostage situation by the Prime Minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin: "The government has not excluded the possibility [that the hostages are in Syria] but it's not up to me to comment on that."
"As such I will say no more!"
Le Figaro, in a front-page article signed by its deputy editor, Charles Lambroschoini, said intelligence sources in France and in the Arab world suspected Syria had intervened in the hostage crisis to "punish" Paris for supporting an anti-Syrian resolution in the UN Security Council. The newspaper suggested Damascus has been largely responsible for the near-farcical events at the weekend in which a maverick member of the French parliament claimed he had succeeded in an independent mission to free the two and their Syrian driver-interpreter.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/07/2004 12:24:07 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[5 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
The French government is now said to suspect that the hostage-takers were not, first thought, radical Islamists but former Baath party members, still loyal to Saddam
If they were radical Islamists - the hostages would be dead by now.
#2
Hint to the French: See what happens when you act like a wimpy little slut of a country? You get dissed by every half-assed dictator and terrorist organization on the planet.
#1
Interesting interview, but I have some serious reservations about some of Mr. Bodansky's notions.
1. If his statement about the U.S. intelligence community being a closed-minded echo chamber is true, than pulling all of the intelligence assets in this country into one organizational structure seems to be the absolute worst thing you could do.
2. A statement that the jihadis definitely have a suitcase nuke is provocative enough that it requires proof.
#2
Hmmm..I'm skeptical. Pretty "Henny Penny" if you ask me. He makes many good points, but the fact that he says many things that are true, does not make everything he says true.
So much overacting in this, that I'm having trouble hearing what he has to say.
#3
I think that until Europe pulls it's head out of it's collective arse (UK not included) the Western world cannot "turn the corner" on winning the war on terror.
Dread...I can believe that the intelligence agencies are full of YES men afraid to rock the boat. Ever since Vietnam when the CIA was given a black eye overall, they've (station managers) have become more timid and solely career progression minded. Check out Bob Baer's book. "See No Evil" At least that's what I think the title was. I could see the same things happening at the exact same time in the ranks of the Army.
#4
A statement that the jihadis definitely have a suitcase nuke is provocative enough that it requires proof
If these bozos have managed to get their hands on a small or not so small nuclear weapon and use it the American people (95% anyway) will demand the gloves come all the way off. Then we will go after the real root source of all of this crap and a bunch of sand will get turned into glass
By Bill Gertz Saddam Hussein used a U.N. humanitarian program to pay $1.78 billion to French government officials, businessmen and journalists in a bid to have sanctions removed and U.S. policies opposed, according to a CIA report made public yesterday. The cash was part of $10.9 billion secretly skimmed from the U.N. oil-for-food program, which was used by Iraq to buy military goods, according to a 1,000-page report by the CIA-led Iraqi Survey Group.
According to a section of the report on Iraqi weapons procurement, the survey group identified long-standing ties between Saddam and the French government. One 1992 Iraqi intelligence service report revealed that Iraq's ambassador to France paid $1 million to the French Socialist Party in 1988.
The CIA report stated that the Iraqi ambassador was instructed to "utilize [the $1 million] to remind French Defense Minister Pierre Joxe indirectly about Iraq's previous positions toward France, in general, and the French Socialist party, in particular."
In the late 1990s, Iraq also used an oil-purchasing voucher system through the U.N. oil-for-food program, which began in 1996 and ended in 2003, to influence the French to oppose U.S. initiatives at the United Nations and to work to lift sanctions, the report stated.
The Iraqi Intelligence Service paid off French nationals by dispensing vouchers that allowed the holders to make hundreds of thousands of dollars in commissions by selling them to oil buyers.
The payoffs help explain why the French government, along with Russia and China, opposed U.S. efforts in the United Nations in the months leading up to the March 2003 invasion, U.S. officials said.
Iraqi intelligence agents also targeted French President Jacques Chirac, by giving gifts to a spokesman, two of his aides and two French businessmen, the report said.
One Iraqi intelligence report stated that a French politician assured Saddam in a letter that France would use its veto in the U.N. Security Council against any U.S. effort to attack Iraq. (Well, well....does this surprise anyone?)
Iraqi intelligence documents recovered in Iraq showed that the French citizens linked to the influence operation were "ministers and politicians, journalists and business people."
"These influential individuals often had little prior connection to the oil industry and generally engaged European oil companies to lift the oil, but were still in a position to extract a substantial profit for themselves," the report said.
Former Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz told the Survey Group that he personally awarded several Frenchmen "substantial" oil allotments.
"According to Aziz, both parties understood that resale of the oil was to be reciprocated through efforts to lift U.N. sanctions or through opposition to American initiatives within the Security Council," the report said.
The report named former French Interior Minister Charles Pascua as getting a voucher for 11 million barrels of oil, and Patrick Maugein, who received a voucher for 13 million barrels of oil. The report said Mr. Maugein, the chief executive officer of the SOCO oil company, was a "conduit" to Mr. Chirac.
Michel Grimard, the founder of the French-Iraqi Export Club, received a voucher for 5.5 million barrels, and the Iraqi-French Friendship Society received vouchers for more than 10 million barrels.
French oil companies Total and SOCAP were granted vouchers for 105 million and 93 million barrels of oil, respectively.
The report stated that Iraq covertly purchased missiles and other military goods from Russia, Belarus, China, North Korea and South Korea.
According to the report, illegal goods used in making weapons of mass destruction were sold to Iraq by companies in Jordan, India, France, Italy, Romania and Turkey.
Conventional arms also were sold to Iraq by China, Jordan, India, South Korea, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Cyprus, Egypt, Lebanon, Georgia, France, Poland, Syria, Belarus, North Korea, Yugoslavia, Yemen, Russia, Romania and the Republic of China (Taiwan).
The report said Saddam's regime obtained $1.5 billion from U.N. humanitarian contract kickbacks and $228.5 million in surcharges on U.N.-approved oil sales.
Other oil smuggling provided the regime with $8 billion in cash outside of U.N.-approved oil sales, the CIA report reveals.
Charles Duelfer, the director of the CIA survey group, told a congressional hearing yesterday that a "sizable portion" of Saddam's cash obtained from the oil-for-food program were diverted to the military, specifically the government-run Military Industrial Commission.
"The funding for this organization, which had responsibility for many of the past [weapons of mass destruction] programs, went from approximately $7.8 million in 1998 to $350 million in 2001," Mr. Duelfer told the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Mr. Duelfer said that during the period from 1998 to 2001, "many military programs were carried out — including many involving the willing export to Iraq of military items prohibited by the Security Council."
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 2:16:38 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Claudia Rosette deserves a Pulitzer for being the first to bring this whole thing to light.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
10/07/2004 14:21 Comments ||
Top||
#2
In addition to the Frogs, the link outlines Russians involved in sweet oil deals via Saddam.
It's from the Guardian so read with some caution, one never knows.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 14:39 Comments ||
Top||
#3
Well, you could knock me over with a feather.
Ms. Rosette certainly deserves a Pulitzer for her work, and the guy who puts together the classifieds has a better chance of getting one than she does.
Posted by: Matt ||
10/07/2004 14:42 Comments ||
Top||
#4
I'm shocked, truly shocked! I would have thought that the French would have gotten a bigger share!
Seriously, these bastards took food and medical aid away from needy Iraqi's and we got the blame for the Iraqi's hardships. Bush should take this report to the U.N. Security Council and personally shove it up the French ambassador's rear end.
Posted by: Tom ||
10/07/2004 15:07 Comments ||
Top||
#5
Love the surprise meter! LOL
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 15:09 Comments ||
Top||
#6
Shocked!! , you are so right. :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 15:10 Comments ||
Top||
#7
It gets rather curious that some of these birds have the descriptive line in web pages about them; "...a close associate of Jacques Chirac..."
While Iraq's interim government has accepted an initiative from an armed militia group to give up its weapons and quit fighting, a senior interim government official says there were never any negotiations with the group. The official said the government "has not, and will never" negotiate with armed militias. Several news reports suggest Iraq's interim government was actively involved in negotiations with militia members to hand over their weapons in the Baghdad suburb of Sadr City.
But the senior adviser to Iraq's Interior Ministry, Sabah Kadhim, says the interim government has never negotiated with militias. Instead, he said the interim government has made clear what the militias must do in order to resolve armed conflicts in areas where militias have seized control. "If they give up the weapons, and the undesirables will move out of the area, and the police will then restore order and continue to do so, well, that to us seems to be the way forward, as we have done in Najaf and Samarra," Mr. Kadhim said. Mr. Kadhim said it would be unrealistic to try to negotiate in earnest because, he said, there are many different armed militias and groups, with different factions within those groups. "Really, we do not negotiate," Mr. Kadhim said. "The word negotiate is very much used by the media as well as the al-Sadr people. For example, they talk about a cease-fire. We have no cease-fire. We have no cease-fire because there is no party, a unit you are dealing with. You are dealing with a variety of people, some with good intentions and want to settle the matter."
Mr. Kadhim says mediators representing militia members approached the interim government saying they were willing to hand over their weapons and return Sadr City to the control of the police. Mr. Kadhim says the interim government simply accepted their decision without any negotiation. He said diplomatic efforts are not being used when it comes to the issue of armed militias. He said they must hand over their weapons and quit fighting or face certain military action.
"Give up or die" Now that's negotiation they can understand.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/07/2004 1:08:15 PM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"The Iraqi president dismissed the suggestion by some countries of partitioning Iraq into three independent countries as nonsense saying that Iraq has been a unified country for centuries and it will remain unified for ever."
Just how do you figure on forcing that? The Kurds seem more united than any ethnic group in Iraq. If they decide to go only Turkey will be able top stand in their way and probably not for long.
#2
Lol! Pres Ghazi Yawer is the token Sunni - the guy in the dress. And I'll bet he says this to all the ethnic groups who are happy to be out from under Sunni domination, the big flirt. Seriously, he should STFU and hope Allawi has the stones to clean up the Sunni Triangle - and I mean really clean it up - else partition and an independent Kurdistan are definite possibilities.
Of course, I would prefer that the Sunnis in particular, and the Iraqi Arabs in general, were not being allowed to hold the Kurds back. They were ready for independence 5 minutes after Baghdad fell. They deserve to be cut loose from their barbaric Arab neighbors and allowed to seek their own destiny.
#4
The Turks would be stupid to attempt to subjugate the Kurds. It would be a battle that would last for generations; a constant bleed of money and resources to oppress. The differences are far to great to see resoultion in the next century. With all we know today about these things - why would any leader knowingly create such a poltical hot potato? To hold it is to get burned.
It's unlikely, but if they are smart they will go to the bargaining table and cut their losses before their losses cut them.
#5
2b - thyeve got that bleed anyway, turkish kurdistan. From their point of view, if you have an independ Iraqi kuridistan, it gets worse. Go into Iraqi kurdistan, maybe you end it finally (let them hate as long as they fear, you know the rap) And you get some oil as a side bonus while youre at it. And you "rescue" some ethnic Turks in Kirkuk.
#6
Seriously, he should STFU and hope Allawi has the stones to clean up the Sunni Triangle - and I mean really clean it up - else partition and an independent Kurdistan are definite possibilities.
well thats gotta be the deal right? Yawer gives cover for being tough on Fallujah, in return for keeping the country together. And he NEEDS to reassert what everybody knows, that the Iraqi govt want to keep the country together, AND IS THE BEST HOPE TO DO SO, to keep Sunni arab, and yes, Shia arab, support.
#7
and BTW, the Kurds are the only group that really has a shot at independenc (well the Shia would, but why go for that when they can try to rule the whole damned country) the Turkomen and the Assyrian Christians dont want an independent Kurdistan, and dont have the numbers or local majorities to be independent - they want a united Iraq.
#8
Back in the Ottoman days the Turks should have played divide and conquer and used the Kurds and growing Jewish population in Palestine to overload over the Arabs.
Now its too late and a free Kurdistand is just a matter of time and bloodshed.
#9
"The Iraqi president dismissed the suggestion by some countries of partitioning Iraq into three independent countries as nonsense saying that Iraq has been a unified country for centuries and it will remain unified for ever."
This is so funny. What was the place before outsiders came in and drew boundaries? And in the absence of actual, defined boundaries before their creation, how was it "unified"????
#10
Well, Bomb-a-rama, Iraq really HAS been unified for centuries.
It was unified under the British Mandate.
Before that, it was unified as a province under the Ottoman Empire.
Before that, it was unified as a province under the Persians.
Before that, it was unified as a province under the Arabs.
Before that it was unified as a province under the Byzantines or Persians. (Kept swapping owners.)
Before that is was generally split between the Persians and Romans or Seleucid Kingdom.
Unified as an independent state? Maybe under Babylon.
#11
Liberal Hawk - I'm sure that's how the Turks see it. But it's easy to see, looking at it from a bemused distance, that the Turks will not be able to subjugate the Kurds. It isn't going to happen in this lifetime. To continue to attempt it, is like to trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it's obvious to anyone with brains that it will never fit.
#12
Why are we trying to force this single statehood. It's so obvious that it's a bad idea. It makes so much more sense to set up a federation of Sunni's Shia's and Kurds. Provide a congress that works together on issues like currency, trade and defense of borders but allow them to vote for their leaders separately, within their own culture. That way, cooperation is in their interests v/s the way they have set it up now, where cooperation is to be co-opted.
I supsect that some dipwit back in the beginning stages was too LAZY to do the really hard and contentious work that was necessary to figure out where the lines would be drawn. It ate into lunch time and it was too hard...so much easier to lecture from the podium with lofty talks of cooperation - and allow be long gone when reality sets in.
#13
oh..and I forgot the main reason they probably started walking down this stupid single statehood path.. they didn't want to anger our "friends" the Turks. Well, that paid off well, now didn't it.
#15
Provide a congress that works together on issues like currency, trade and defense of borders but allow them to vote for their leaders separately, within their own culture
By geography? What happens to mixed sunni/shhite cities, like Basra, Hilla, Baquba, and most important Baghdad? What happens to Kirkuk, with Kurds, Sunni Arabs, Turks, and Assyrian Christians? Mosul with the above groups too? Or do we have them vote by ethnicity and religion? Emphasizing the differences? What about people who DONT identify so much with their group, or who are children mixed marriages, as some Baghdadis are?
Partitioning Iraq would be a nightmare. We didnt avoid that ONLY to satisfy the Turks - (not that wouldnt have been important anyway - Turkey IS one of our most important allies in the region, even if theyre not as reliable as we would like) It would piss off the Sunni AND Shia arabs as well - both of whom want a united Iraq. A free Kurdistan means you lose Iraq. Which, if your goal is democratizing the region, is pretty stupid, since you need to democratize an ARAB state to have a model for the region. If all you want are new bases its also stupid, since you end up with a landlocked ally, surrounded by enemies. Not a real smart place to put your bases, huh? Oh, and you piss off the rest of the arab world, too, confirming their worst fears about your desire to carve up their states - now their are some folks here who dont give a damn about arab hearts and minds, so i guess to them this isnt an objection.
#16
Sigh..Ok...but if you are going to make me type it, do me the favor of actually reading it. Ok?
In a federation, you wouldn't have to have geographical boundries - you could have political/cultural ones that could be fluid much like we do here at home. We divide our own districts up, based on differing needs. For example: urban v/s rural, minority v/s majority. There will always be places where they overlap - that's why we allow the readjustments every so many years. Sure, there is alway gerrymandering problems - but overall, it allows people to have representatives that represent their unique interests, instead of just allowing the desires of the urban centers to rule all things for everyone.
Ok...now, I'm not going to spend 1,000 words to make the above example apply in every way possible to the Sunnis, Shias and Kurds..so use your intelligence to fill in the gaps and save us both the effort of pounding each and every possible way this example isn't perfect.
So, you make the primary divisions (most of which would be fairly obvious, Kurds in north..etc) understanding that the edges need to be fluid so that the poltical process can ultimately determine where the dividing lines will go. That way it's done over generations and based on reality - rather than two guys working off a napkin at lunch.
The difference between Iraq and the US is that the differences in these three dominant groups are so fundamental and the numbers are so uneven (more shias etc) that a method needs to be set up to allow each group the ability elect individuals - from the city govn't all the way to the top spot - who represent their religious and cultural needs.
Why do I say they need to take this concept beyond local politics? Let me put it this way, LH. What if, the number of Muslims extremists suddenly outnumbered the number of other Americans in the US and you woke up one morning with the realization that, after the next election, Sharia would be implemented - burkas, stonings and handchoppings now legal - Would you be willing to accept that? I wouldn't. That would be cause for civil war in my book.
It's not like the differences between these groups are minor disagreements like more or less taxes - the differences are so fundamental that it would be akin to you being forced to be suddenly ruled by evangelical Christians or fanatical Muslims.
Americans keep saying - hey we can do it - so should you. But these peoples are centuries behind us. The multicultural thing isn't going to happen. And all of those who cheerlead and say, yes, yes, you can!! - will be 10,000 miles away when it doesn't work and the blood begins to flow.
(An obscure historical reference, Napoleon was called "Le Petit Caporal").
This weirdo is sometimes lucid. Of course, someone with a standard classical education can come up with a similar analysis, it is not a rocket science. So, then a question remains... what is his beef?
I think that the prospect of Eurabia is giving him willies. Khilafah would be bad for Lybia as an independent entity, as Lybia would be relegated to a unterprovincial backwater, in such a socio-political configuration, and left with very little leverage.
The police has registered a case against 15 people from the Jamaat-e-Ahmadia for printing Aslam-o-Alaikum and Inshallah on wedding cards, Geo TV reported on Wednesday. Among those who are charged include three brides and three grooms. Abdul Wahid, a local chief of Almi Majlis-e-Khatm Nabuat in Kinry Town of Mirpur Khas, registered a case against an Ahmadi family which got these words printed on wedding cards, the TV channel quoted a report by BBC Urdu Service. Wahid said Ahmadis were non-Muslims and therefore they should not be allowed to write words representing Muslim culture. The police has arrested two men, the TV channel reported.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
10/07/2004 1:16:42 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Another case of Not-Muslim-Enough. Is the penalty the same as for blasphemy?
Posted by: ed ||
10/07/2004 8:40 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Wahid said Ahmadis were non-Muslims and therefore they should not be allowed to write words representing Muslim culture.
Oh-oh. That can't be good. What'll it be? Stoning or the acid bath?
#4
The Ahmadis are a sect of Islam, with many educated people, who believe that jihad is to be limited to the pen -- the sword is proscribed. They get it. This is the only form of Islam that is not a hate spewing cult.
Abdul Razzik learned of the Taleban's intention to kill him at the end of this week when he read the letter pinned to his village mosque. The Shubnama - night letter - wasn't the usual half-literate scrawl but composed and printed out by computer, with Mr Razzik's name highlighted in red. Normally, the grandfather, who works for an American-owned agricultural company, would shrug off such threats. In Helmand Province, though, these are not normal times. In the past few days, Taleban killing squads have fanned out across the province looking for soft targets. If they kill enough people between now and Saturday, the voters may be too scared to vote in the presidential election. Because the US military is too difficult to attack, anyone working for foreigners, or the Kabul government, or in reconstruction, is a target. Foreigners are the biggest prize - Taleban commanders are said to have put a US$50,000 bounty on their heads.
In the past week, small groups of guerrillas armed with Kalashnikovs and rocket-propelled grenades have been seen moving on motorbikes and pickup trucks across this region near Kandahar. Many are teenagers brainwashed on fundamentalism who have crossed from refuges in Pakistan or neighbouring Uruzgan Province, a Taleban stronghold and home of Mullah Omar, their leader. They are on a spree and it is expected to prove bloody. Mr Razzik, 57, believes few people still support the Taleban in Helmand, an opium poppy-growing region in southern Afghanistan's Pushtun belt, so the guerrillas must rely on fear to sabotage Saturday's vote. Rumours of attacks are seized on in the bazaars of north Helmand and politics is hardly discussed at all. Many voters are worried about the ink that will stain their hands, used to prevent multiple voting, fearing it will betray them to wrathful Taleban.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/07/2004 12:36:21 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Quagmire! Doom! Gloom! We must cower. Quick - under the covers!
Posted by: Fred ||
10/07/2004 16:30 Comments ||
Top||
#8
Okay, got it. These are simple SM metres like a bearing only radar. The late WWII SM metres gave intensity and if the weather cooperated a simple (if usually untrustworthy) good/bad read out. I once had one of these oldies shatter during a Braves win/kennedy sober night.
Sudan bowed to a five-point plan tabled by Tony Blair during talks in Khartoum yesterday, which included accepting the free movement of 3,500 African Union troops as ceasefire monitors in Darfur province. Mr Blair also urged Sudan to return its troops to barracks and accept a deadline of December 31 for an agreement on devolution for the south of the country. He hopes this will serve as a model for peace in Darfur. Mr Blair held two hours of talks with Sudan's president, Omar al-Bashir, during which he warned that the EU and US were willing to go to the UN to impose sanctions. Privately, the prime minister believes the west will know by the end of the year whe- ther Sudan is serious about honouring its commitments.
#3
Sudan is a former host of UBL and his camps. Now the Sudan has camps that train Arab terrorists called Janjaweed who rape an kill innocents. Mullah Omar missed the boat on this one. He should have had AQ change their name to Wackydudes - then they could have continued to be dangerous terrorists training and operating as an army as long as they refrained from genocide against the locals.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/07/2004 19:16 Comments ||
Top||
Saddam Hussein was obsessed with his status in the Arab world, dreaming of weapons of mass destruction to pump up his prestige. And even as the United States fixated on him, he was fixated on his neighboring enemy, Iran. That is the picture that emerges from interrogations of the former Iraqi leader since his capture last December, according to the final report of the chief U.S. arms inspector, which gives a first glimpse into what the United States has gleaned about Saddam's hopes, dreams and insecurities. The report suggests that Saddam tried to improve relations with the United States in the 1990s, yet basked in his standing as the only leader to stand up to the world's superpower. It says Saddam was determined that if Iran was to acquire nuclear weapons, so was Iraq. And it says he was a narcissist who cared deeply about his legacy, making sure bricks were molded with his name in hopes people would admire them for centuries to come.
Weapons hunter Charles Duelfer had access to information from U.S. interrogations of Saddam over several months. The former Iraqi dictator apparently talked not because he wanted to help the United States, but because he was concerned with his legacy, the report says. Much of his motivation in the quest for weapons of mass destruction came from neighboring Iran and the two countries' "long-standing rivalry over the centuries," including the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s. "From Saddam's viewpoint, the Persian menace loomed large and was a challenge to his place in history," the report says. "This was an important motivation in his views on WMD — especially as it became obvious that Iran was pursuing the very capabilities he was denied," said the report, which found no evidence that Iraq had produced any such weapons after 1991.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/07/2004 12:20:00 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Mullah madness?
As I argue in my opinion piece, the Iranian thugs looked to be able to move in on the Tikrit thugs. Thus the obsession.
Saddam Hussein made $11 billion in illegal income and eroded the world's toughest economic embargo during his final years as Iraq's leader through shrewd schemes to secretly buy off dozens of countries, top foreign officials and major international figures, said a new report by the chief U.S. weapons inspector released yesterday. The officials allegedly included the former top U.N. official in charge of humanitarian relief, Benon Sevan. Recipients of oil "vouchers" that could be resold for large profits included Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri, French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua, former Russian presidential candidate Vladimir Zhirinovsky and governments, companies and influential individuals in Europe, the Middle East and Africa, the report said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/07/2004 12:28:54 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Aaaah oui, Paradis perdu! "The former French interior minister received' his little voucher "for 11 million barrels." Is this the same French government which refused to assist in the ouster of the former paymaster in Baghdad? Oui, oui! Maurice Chevalier, singing Thank Heaven for Little Barrels of Oil", La Grande Illusion
Then we have "The Russian foreign ministry received a voucher for 55 million, while Zhirinovsky, a hardline commie, 'got a voucher for 53 million barrels and the Russian Communist Partyâs voucher totalled 110 million barrels'. Commies playing the oil markets. Now comrades what would the peasants say about this neo-capitalist swine with the phoney red mask selling out for barrels of crude oil.
I wonder if some of the same player in the shaddy Saddam oil deals have even greater deals with the current (soon to be altered)Iranian government?
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 1:03 Comments ||
Top||
#2
I wonder if some of the same player in the shaddy Saddam oil deals have even greater deals with the current (soon to be altered)Iranian government?
Possible; the international oil business has always had a shady aspect.
"Blessed be your hands," Umm Issa tells Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, nicknamed "prince of cutthroats" on Islamist Web sites for his beheading of foreign hostages in Iraq. Jordanian-born Zarqawi, who heads the Tawhid and Jihad (Unity and Holy War) group, must be getting used to such messages of support from Muslim e-mailers. He is on track to overtake al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden in the popularity stakes as militants make full use of the Internet in their war against "Crusaders."
"O Sheikh Zarqawi, I implore you to quickly slaughter, with your right [hand], the British elj [infidel]," says a participant named Nimr, in a typical display of hatred for the West shown by participants in Islamist discussion groups. Yet another contributor to the "debate" suggests cutting hostages' throats with a saw in order to terrorize the uluj (plural for infidel). But "Abu Taymiya" disagrees. "Prisoners must be treated well ... and a saw might cause them suffering," he argues.
Contributors use a variety of noms de guerre -- from "Servant of the Mujahedeen" to "Enamored of Terrorism" -- but their rallying cry is the same: "to terrorize the enemy," chiefly the US. Islamist militants began venting their hatred of "the Crusaders and Jews" on the Internet after the Taliban regime was ousted from power in Afghanistan in late 2001 by a US-led military campaign launched in retaliation for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington. Islamist messages, electronic publications and videos have since proliferated as militants "prepare for jihad."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/07/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Next we will hear Zarqawihas opened a death cult college for the Islamic deranged.
They devoted dementos, opps I meant pupils, sing him this little song each day:
"O Sheikh Zarqawi, We know, that we know, that you know too, your days in jihadland grow fewer... with each act of jihadic barbarity, So please 'O Sheikh teach us, the dumb dumbs of wack-an-uluj, how 'O Great One do we die quicker and better then the last shlub for jihad, 'O Great Mufti of Muftis?"
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/07/2004 1:21 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Last shlub indeed, Mark. We need a Hulagu Khan to rout Mohammed's army of thrill killers and assassins.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/07/2004 16:25 Comments ||
Top||
#9
"O Sheikh Zarqawi, I implore you to quickly slaughter, with your right [hand], the British elj [infidel]," ... but don't slay the man who allows me to utilize the internet, creates the car I drive or the man who holds to secret formula for Orange Julius. :-}
Posted by: Super Hose ||
10/07/2004 19:07 Comments ||
Top||
Jamahiriya (Libyan) news agency
The Leader Muammar al-Gathafi considered that the big reservation regarding the Iraqi resistance, is from the formal and organizational aspect, that is not declaring its official identity, and no presence for its legal body before the world, and is disguising under other slogans.
Doesn't want to buy a pig in a poke, huh?
" The Iraqi resistance of the foreign occupier is legitimate, particularly so since the occupation lost its justification for entering Iraq; after acknowledgement that WMD which was the reason for entering Iraq is nonexistent and Iraq is free of it" the leader said. "What are the reasons which led the Iraqi army, Baath Party, Saddam Guerrilla, or the Republican Guard, if they went underground to resist the occupation, not to declare their identity, and instead disguising under other slogans?" He wondered. " When such names as Mohamad Army, AlMehdi Army, Ali Army, Tawheed Army, or La Ilaha Ila Allah Army, etc. Such names do not give a legal entity to the resistance before the world". In this respect, the Leader stressed that the issue between the Iraqis and the Americans not one of religious dispute or a religious problem, but an issue of occupation, an aggressor and assailed, irrespective of the two parties' religions.
Except that the Bad Guys are cutting people's heads off in the name of their religion...
... and they've got this thing about exploding car-bombs around schoolchildren, too.
He urged against the use of religion in the resistance of occupation in Iraq, because resisting the occupier is a legitimate right of any people whose land is occupied, so it becomes its right to fight the occupation forces. " It is a natural, legitimate and sacred right of self-defense, which not only decided after the establishment of the United Nations which provided for the legitimacy of this right in article 51 of its charter, but ever since human history got to know the phenomenon of foreign forces occupation of others countries. The leader pointed out that what is going on in Iraq now is extra judicial execution by both parties. Both parties did not commit themselves to the rules of the war nor by Geneva agreement. The occupier justifies such a thing by saying the party it is facing has no identity, and it is exercising terrorism not legitimate struggle. He stressed that such a thing is irrational, and no one would accept people to be annihilated in this way. The Leader stressed the need that the Iraqi resistance distance itself from any thing that may label it with terrorism, and should have a known official and legitimate identity; it should be united with an address and leadership, and fight legitimately with out terrorism in order to gain international recognition, and protect itself by virtues of international laws, so that its caught members would be treated as prisoners of war not as criminals as is the case now.
Figure the odds on that, Muammar...
" This even in order to negotiate with them as was the case with the known legitimate resistances, which defeated the occupiers and forced them to engage into negotiations" The leader pointed out. " All resistances of occupation in history had leaderships and addresses and eventually were engaged in negotiations , such as the Vietnamese and Algerian resistance as well as the Partisan resistance led by Tito in Yugoslavia, and the jihad of Omar al-Mukhtar in Libya, the African National Conference in South Africa, Mandela and his comrades, ZANU in Zimbabwe, SWABO in Namibia and Frelimo in Mozambique, Mau Mau in Kenya, the resistance of the Russian army against the German occupation in the Second World War, as well as the French and Digoul resistance of the same occupation and the same war" the leader explained.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/07/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#2
Believe it or not, Muammar is right on this one: The Third Geneva Convention presumes to cover insurrections and resistance movements fighting against signatories. However, to get protection, they have to meet certain standards. Coincidentally, neither the Iraqui resistance, nor the palestinians, meet these standards. Not at all coincidentally, NGOs totally ignore these 3rd Convention requirements, even though they know them to the letter when it comes to applying them to The US and Great Britain
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Pretty as picture 
Top terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has called for attacks to be carried out in Germany against Jewish institutions and a disco, a report said Wednesday citing telephone calls intercepted by intelligence services. The report in Germany's Stern magazine noted, however, that the phone calls dated back to 2002. Zarqawi sought to organize suicide bombing of Jewish centres and disco in the western German city of Duesseldorf, said the report.
Syrian President Bashar Assad is offering to make peace with Israel and says he is ready to cooperate with the United States in stabilizing Iraq, a former senior State Department official said Wednesday. "Something is going on in Syria and it is time for us to pay attention," said Martin Indyk, assistant secretary of state for the Near East and U.S. ambassador to Israel during the Clinton administration.
