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Area: WoT Operations    WoT Background    Non-WoT        Politix   
US drone kills three in Pakistan
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 4: Opinion
1 18:23 Redneck Jim [3] 
1 12:47 Iblis [2] 
5 18:25 Redneck Jim [4] 
1 16:40 JohnQC [1] 
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4 21:26 Barbara [5] 
11 23:26 Dopey Sinatra [4] 
Page 1: WoT Operations
3 16:51 JohnQC [1]
5 11:46 Ptah [7]
4 13:20 Glomonter Snarong6179 [3]
1 10:27 M. Murcek []
3 07:50 Glenmore []
2 14:03 Pappy [1]
1 02:46 g(r)omgoru [1]
2 02:48 g(r)omgoru [9]
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5 20:19 tipover [12]
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2 11:50 Frank G [2]
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Page 2: WoT Background
5 21:13 Procopius2k [2]
1 05:38 Paul D [1]
5 07:26 Besoeker [3]
2 12:39 Redneck Jim [2]
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1 07:43 Frank G []
2 00:50 CrazyFool [1]
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2 13:41 Mullah Richard [8]
3 18:27 CrazyFool [5]
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3 23:31 JosephMendiola [6]
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1 00:59 Besoeker [3]
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7 23:53 trailing wife [16]
Page 3: Non-WoT
1 19:22 Procopius2k [5]
4 19:46 JosephMendiola [2]
2 12:11 AlmostAnonymous5839 [3]
1 15:54 Alaska Paul [2]
5 23:56 JosephMendiola [3]
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1 11:38 Frozen Al [2]
3 18:17 Ebbang Uluque6305 [3]
3 23:25 Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) [9]
Page 6: Politix
8 18:48 Barbara [5]
12 21:35 Perfesser [4]
2 13:13 AlanC [1]
5 14:41 Iblis []
7 22:23 Iblis [4]
China-Japan-Koreas
North Korea's Impending Collapse: Three Grim Scenarios
...it is the rarest of the rare enterprise that survives generation three...
Posted by: Uncle Phester || 09/30/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under: Commies

#1  Every time I see a picture of that guy he gives the impression that he is most certainly ruthless enough to do whatever he feels is necessary to stay in power. Also, I wonder how there could ever be a popular uprising. If the people are as malnourished as they are reported to be, even if they had weapons, would they be strong enough to bear them?
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 09/30/2013 11:44 Comments || Top||

#2  I dont see an uprising so much as implosion and inability of srmy to feed folk. Cant sell nukes to middle east if you cant get them there and that is one thing the world can control.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 09/30/2013 12:45 Comments || Top||

#3  O and Kerry will pull their sorry a$$es out of a crack. That is my guess, though I would hate to say that they wont.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/30/2013 15:57 Comments || Top||

#4  Hard to imagine a scenario where the Norks don't wind up as part of China in some form.
Posted by: Iblis || 09/30/2013 18:08 Comments || Top||

#5  China can be dealt with, they're not fanaticly crazy.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 09/30/2013 18:25 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
How Common Are Child Gun Accidents?
Posted by: GolfBravoUSMC || 09/30/2013 15:21 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Damn uncommon, Except to liberals who want to warp the statistics.

Don't let them LIE.
Posted by: Redneck Jim || 09/30/2013 18:23 Comments || Top||


Big Labor Stumbles in Wisconsin
Posted by: GolfBravoUSMC || 09/30/2013 02:22 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This is a model that should be followed in all red states. Keep 'em red.
Posted by: Iblis || 09/30/2013 12:47 Comments || Top||


The Bad Old Days: Returning Soon to a Gotham City Near You
...remembering fondly the Carter years...national as well as local levels of crap sandwich....
Rudy isn't going to be there to rescue them this time...
Posted by: Uncle Phester || 09/30/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under: al-Qaeda

#1  Not being a New Yorker and traveling there as little as I can, I don't really know how NY was other than what I read or hear. However, Bloomberg has to be one of the most annoying mayors in the history of the city.
Posted by: JohnQC || 09/30/2013 16:40 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
Redefining terrorism
[Dawn] There has been some talk of amending the Anti-Terrorism Act of 1997 (ATA) to make it more effective in its response to terrorism. It is therefore instructive to view the anti-terror mechanism envisaged by the ATA and see why, despite this law, terrorism has grown unchecked.

The ATA was enacted with a specific purpose: To provide for the prevention of terrorism, sectarian violence and for speedy trial of heinous offences. The ATA defines acts of terror under Section 6 of the said Act. This is a broad definition which covers everything from intimidation of state authorities to acts calculated to create insecurity in society. However,
nothing needs reforming like other people's bad habits...
when it comes to implementation, we have seen that the law has failed to deliver because of its creative application in cases where it does not apply. For example, in what has to be a case of turning the intent on its head, this year members of the Ahmadi community in Gulshan Ravi were charged under the ATA after a group of brigands invaded their place of worship and destroyed their property. The brigands then got the police to register an FIR under the said law because during their illegal raid, they chanced upon religious material of the community which supposedly offended their religious sensibilities.

Even otherwise, the application of the law in cases unrelated to terrorism has contributed to the dilution of its legal effect. The Shahzeb murder case is one such glaring example. It was an open and shut case of murder arising out of a dispute, yet through an amazing feat of legal gymnastics it was fit into the definition of terrorism under Section 6 of the ATA. Consequently when the matter was resolved through Qisas and Diyat (Q&D) Ordinance, the ATA indictment fell through the gaps. Indeed the indictment under the ATA was most probably done in order to bypass the Q&D Ordinance. Herein lies the rub: If we are to accept the logic used in the Shahzeb case, every instance of premeditated murder can ostensibly be placed within the definition of terrorism under the ATA. But then this would defeat the original intent behind enacting the ATA in the first place, i.e. the creation of a parallel special court to deal with matters of terrorism. Similarly, in Mukhtaran Mai's rape case, the perpetrators of the heinous crime were charged under Section 7(c) and 21(1) of the ATA because it was deemed to be an act of terrorism.

There is a very logical reason why high profile murder or rape cases are put into the terrorism bucket. It is because the prosecutors just don't have sufficient faith in the primary statutes governing murder or rape. However,
a clean conscience makes a soft pillow...
the answer to this is not to throw everything at the accused hoping something would stick. It is to ensure that primary statutes for cases such as murder and rape under the Pakistain Penal Code are sufficiently effective in dispensing justice. This would mean fewer, and not more laws. For example, the Q&D Ordinance as well as the Hudood Ordinances are distractions from the cause of justice whether we like to admit it or not. It goes without saying that these laws are based on very selective interpretations of Islamic jurisprudence which serve the orthodoxy by elevating form over substance. This is why till the Protection of Women (Criminal Laws Amendment) Act 2006 was formulated, rape victims were being charged under the Zina Ordinance while their rapists went about scot free. Unfortunately, we do not learn from history.

The Council of Islamic Ideology under the extremely narrow leadership of Maulana Sherani has already moved to undo the many good things about the Protection of Women (Criminal Laws Amendment) Act 2006. Individuals accused of murder or rape not for ideological reasons may well object to the ATA indictments as being ultra vires Article 10-A, the right to fair trial, of the Constitution.

Then we come to terrorism. There is a great need to make the definition of terrorism narrow and focused. To begin with terrorism includes within its ambit only those acts of violence which are perpetrated against civilian populations and civil authorities. Furthermore, these should also be limited by the existence of pre-meditated as well as an ideological motive, i.e. ethnic separatism or jihadi pretensions. All other forms of violence must then be referred to the regular criminal legal stream under various laws such as incitement, rape, murder, disorder, etc.

Unless we give the special anti-terrorism courts the room to breathe, the whole exercise of amending the ATA will be futile. What is needed at this moment is a law that specifically targets violence intended to create terror in society on political grounds. Any and all acts from murder or dissemination of proscribed publications can then be brought into the ambit of the ATA provided that these actions stem from an ideological motive and the intent to carry out attacks against non-combatant civilian populations and civil authorities of the country. Reprehensible as certain crimes may be, the adequate remedy for any other crime should not lie before the ATA. To insist otherwise is a grave violation of Article 10-A of the Constitution as well as patently absurd given that the nation is at war against terrorism.
Posted by: Fred || 09/30/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Pakistan


Are Christians, Pakistanis?
Don't be ridiculous. How can untermenschen possibly be counted among the people of the Land of the Pure?
[Dawn] "Stop killing Christians in Pakistain, Pakistain," shouted a group of 20 people outside a New York hotel where Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif
... served two non-consecutive terms as prime minister, heads the Pakistain Moslem League (Nawaz). Noted for his spectacular corruption, the 1998 Pak nuclear test, border war with India, and for being tossed by General Musharraf...
was addressing the Pak community.

Since most of them were Christians, they were not asked to come in. Are Christians, Paks? It is still debatable.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred || 09/30/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under: Govt of Pakistan

#1  Hell that's like asking are Jews white people? Technically yes.... but.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/30/2013 17:38 Comments || Top||

#2  Let's face it: we're all infidels on this bus.
Posted by: SteveS || 09/30/2013 18:19 Comments || Top||

#3  The country was made for Sunni muslims only hence the slaughter of Christians, Sikh, Hindu, Shia etc

Oh the Saudis, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE and Kuwait would be proud! Sunni muslims inspired by the gulf states are the most intolerant religion in the world. Does Obama realise this?
Posted by: Paul D || 09/30/2013 19:16 Comments || Top||

#4  "Does Obama realise this?"

Yes. Next question?
Posted by: Barbara || 09/30/2013 21:26 Comments || Top||


Terror Networks
We Have To Talk About The Barbarism Of Modern Islamist Terrorism
[BLOGS.TELEGRAPH.CO.UK] Maybe it's because we have become so inured to Islamist terrorism in the 12 years since 9/11 that even something like the blowing-up of 85 Christians outside a church in Pakistain no longer shocks us or even makes it on to many newspaper front pages. But consider what happened: two men strapped with explosives walked into a group of men, women and kiddies who were queuing for food and blew up themselves and the innocents gathered around them. Who does that? How far must a person have drifted from any basic system of moral values to behave in such an unrestrained and wicked fashion? Yet the Guardian tells us it is "moral masturbation" to express outrage over this attack, and it would be better to give into a "sober recognition that there are many bad things we can't as a matter of fact do much about". This is a demand that we further acclimatise to the peculiar and perverse bloody Islamist attacks around the world, shrug our shoulders, put away our moral compasses, and say: "Ah well, this kind of thing happens."

Or consider the attack on Westgate in Kenya, where both the old and the young, black and white, male and female were targeted. With no clear stated aims from the people who carried the attack out, and no logic to their strange and brutal behaviour, Westgate had more in common with those mass mall and school shootings that are occasionally carried out by disturbed people in the West than it did with the political violence of yesteryear. And yet still observers avoid using the T-word or the M-word (murder) to describe what happened there, and instead attach all sorts of made-up, see-through political theories to this rampage, giving what was effectively a terror tantrum executed by morally unrestrained Islamists the respectability of being a political protest of some breed.

Time and again, one reads about Islamist attacks that seem to defy not only the most basic of humanity's moral strictures but also political and even guerrilla logic. Consider the hundreds of suicide kabooms that have taken place in Iraq in recent years, a great number of them against ordinary Iraqis, often children. Western apologists for this wave of weird violence, which they call "resistance", claim it is about fighting against the Western forces which were occupying Iraq in the wake of the 2003 invasion. If so, it's the first "resistance" in history whose prime targets have been civilians rather than security forces, and which has failed to put forward any kind of political programme that its violence is allegedly designed to achieve. Even experts in counterinsurgency have found themselves perplexed by the numerous nameless suicide assaults on massive numbers of civilians in post-war Iraq, and the fact that these violent actors, unlike the vast majority of violent political actors in history, have "developed no alternative government or political wing and displayed no intention of amassing territory to govern". One Iraqi attack has stuck in my mind for seven years. In 2006 a female jacket wallah blew herself up among families -- including many mothers and their offspring -- who were queuing up for kerosene. Can you imagine what happened? A terrible glimpse was offered by this line in a Washington Post report on 24 September 2006: "Two pre-teen girls embraced each other as they burned to death."

What motivates this perversity? What are its origins? Unwilling, or perhaps unable, to face up to the newness of this unrestrained, aim-free, civilian-targeting violence, Western observers do all sorts of moral contortions in an effort to present such violence as run-of-the-mill or even possibly a justifiable response to Western militarism. Some say, "Well, America kills women and kiddies too, in its drone attacks", wilfully overlooking the fact such people are not the targets of America's military interventions -- and I say that as someone who has opposed every American venture overseas of the past 20 years. If you cannot see the difference between a drone strike that goes wrong and kills an entire family and a man who crashes his car into the middle of a group of children accepting sweets from a US soldier and them blows himself and them up -- as happened in Iraq in 2005 -- then there is something wrong with you. Other observers say that Islamists, particularly in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also the individuals who attacked London and New York, are fighting against Western imperialism in Moslem lands. But that doesn't add up. How does blowing up Iraqi children represent a strike against American militarism? How is detonating a bomb on the London Underground a stab at the Foreign Office? It is ridiculous, and more than a little immoral, to try to dress up nihilistic assaults designed merely to kill as many ordinary people as possible as some kind of principled political violence.
Posted by: Fred || 09/30/2013 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under: al-Qaeda

#1  'We' have to talk about it because, unlike a self defense shooting in Florida or a work site shooting in DC, it's about a PC subject that the 'professional' journalists refuse to tag for what it is.
Posted by: Procopius2k || 09/30/2013 8:55 Comments || Top||

#2  I was in Libya for six months and the Libyans, in Tripoli, are as mystified by fanaticism and terrorism in the name of Islam as the writer of this article. Time and time again, at mosques, at coffee, and at work, Libyans expressed anguish and anger at Islam being labeled as the cause of fanaticism. They said that nowhere in the Quran is any of that allowed, advocated, or suggested.

I wanted to know for myself and I found an English language translation of the Quran, approved by the high council in Mecca for its accuracy, and read it cover to cover. I have to agree with my Libyan friends. A literal reading of the Quran, and according to Islam interpretation is not allowed, none of this barbaric violence is allowed.

I have to take back many things I have said about the religion of Islam but I will not take back any of the things I have said about these cowards, nutjobs, and fanatics who kill innocents. The Quran is very specific about suicide, killing innocents, and protecting the "Followers of the Book" (Christians).

One explanation is that, as in the United States among my fellow Christians, many Moslems have not read the Quran, they follow the religion by rote without any theological basis for their faith. They do not know what really is allowed or prohibited in the Quran. Therefore, they take whatever the local Imam has to say as the truth. If the Imam is a nut and a fanatic, those who pray at that mosque will absorb his rantings and misdirection as the face of Islam.

It may be in the NAME of Islam, but from my readings of the Quran and my discussions with Imams and other Islamic scholars in Libya, it is not Islam. The failure of Islam to condemn these acts is tied to their own nihilism based upon the absolute predestination spoken by the Quran.
Posted by: Bill Clinton || 09/30/2013 9:58 Comments || Top||

#3  Time and time again, at mosques, at coffee, and at work, Libyans expressed anguish and anger at Islam being labeled as the cause of fanaticism. They said that nowhere in the Quran is any of that allowed, advocated, or suggested.

Then why not do something about these apostates in their midst? Maybe there's a different interpretation, like say from Saudi or Teheran (as in follow the money), which doesn't concur.
Posted by: Procopius2k || 09/30/2013 10:39 Comments || Top||

#4  Maybe the high council in Mecca allowed the translation to sound more reasonable in English? Hmm?
Posted by: Hellfish || 09/30/2013 12:11 Comments || Top||

#5  Bill C, why don't we hear loud and constant condemnation from Muslims worldwide? Instead what we hear is the timid "This is not true Islam. Don't you dare hurt us."

If I gathered a bunch of followers, and we blew up a mosque or a mall "in the name of Christ", shouting "Vivat rex Christe!" as we did so, you can be certain that my pastor, bishop and the Pope would condemn me in no uncertain terms.
Posted by: Rambler in Virginia || 09/30/2013 15:04 Comments || Top||

#6  Rambler - As I recall the IRA attempted to bomb a Catholic girls school awhile back... Just about every christian organization condemned the act.

With Islam on the other hand... every islamic organization is quiet as a mouse _or_ gives a lackluster conditional condemnation. "If they were innocent then we condemn the killings...".
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/30/2013 15:36 Comments || Top||

#7  Gentlemen,

That is the question I have asked of my Libyan friends and never get a consistent answer. They will condemn the behavior personally but the leaders, the Imams, will not.

I agree THAT is the problem with fanatical Islam, no one will condemn the behavior.
Posted by: Bill Clinton || 09/30/2013 17:01 Comments || Top||

#8  The difference is that there is no hierarchy in Islam per se. Even though the Koran "came directly from Allah", each imam interprets it in his own way (and can issue a fatwa based on that interpretation.) And the layman simply does not contradict the imam.
Posted by: Pappy || 09/30/2013 17:35 Comments || Top||

#9  One of the big problems is that in Islam all believers are supposed to be equal, but aren't. So you have al-Sadr being given preferential treatment in getting his Doctor of Islamojurisprudence Degree (or whatever it's called) because of his father and his father's fathers... und so weiter back to whenever...

...and then you have the Saudis who recognize different bloodlines, or no bloodlines at all, it's all done in the grand old jump-the-dragon-gate style of aristocracy without explicit bloodlines, and, well, that's where the drama gets ramped up.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain || 09/30/2013 17:50 Comments || Top||

#10  The Gulf states preach/fund intolerance, Until that changes the war on terror will continue forever.
Posted by: Paul D || 09/30/2013 19:20 Comments || Top||

#11  The failure of Islam to condemn these acts is tied to their own nihilism based upon the absolute predestination spoken by the Quran.

I think Bill C. hit it on the head. Muslims believe that everything that happens is Allah's/God's will. Therefore, nothing bad ever happens because Allah is perfect.
Posted by: Dopey Sinatra || 09/30/2013 23:26 Comments || Top||



Who's in the News
23[untagged]
7Arab Spring
6al-Shabaab
6Govt of Pakistan
5Govt of Iran
3Hezbollah
3Govt of Syria
2al-Qaeda
2al-Nusra
2Commies
2al-Qaeda in Sinai Peninsula
1Islamic State of Iraq
1Jamaat-e-Ulema Islami
1Moro National Liberation Front
1Palestinian Authority
1al-Qaeda in Pakistan
1al-Qaeda in North Africa
1CAIR
1Govt of Sudan
1Hamas

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Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
tu3031
badanov
sherry
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GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
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Fred
Besoeker
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Two weeks of WOT
Mon 2013-09-30
  US drone kills three in Pakistan
Sun 2013-09-29
  Boko murders up to 50 students in their sleep
Sat 2013-09-28
  Sudan Arrests 600 over 'Vandalism'
Fri 2013-09-27
  Peshawar Bus Bombing Kills 17 Govt Employees
Thu 2013-09-26
  Syria rebels reject opposition coalition, call for Islamic leadership
Wed 2013-09-25
  AQIM replaces dead emirs
Tue 2013-09-24
  Nairobi attack: Kenya's President Kenyatta says siege over
Mon 2013-09-23
  Egyptian court bans Moslem Brüderbund activity, confiscates assets
Sun 2013-09-22
  Death toll in Pakistan church bombing rises to at least 40
Sat 2013-09-21
  Hundreds of Syria rebels pledge loyalty to Qaeda groups
Fri 2013-09-20
  87 Killed in Islamist Rampage in Northeast Nigeria Town
Thu 2013-09-19
  Nigerian Army Claims Raid on Boko Haram Kills 150 Islamists
Wed 2013-09-18
  Iraq Attacks Kill 34, Including 26 in 7 Baghdad Blasts
Tue 2013-09-17
  Security forces retake control of Islamist stronghold in Upper Egypt, 45 arrested
Mon 2013-09-16
  FLASH - BREAKING NEWS - Gunman opens fire at Navy Yard in Washington


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