A TV talk-show host in United Arab Emirates has spoken out against the "immorality" of cell phones that play Beethoven and Mozart music in Muslim mosques. Sheik Said Al-Zayyati, who hosts a talk show on Al-Sharija TV in Sharija, UAE, lambasted those who program Western music as rings for their cell phones, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute TV Monitor Project, or MEMRI TV. The organization's site features a video clip of Al-Zayyati's denouncement.
"My brother, these people [cell phone users], may Allah guide them to the path of righteousness, are destroying our worship," he told viewers. Does that mean the bump-and-grind ring tone is haram?
I think we just found a new weapon in the WoT.
"You circle the Ka'ba, [a holy shrine in Mecca] and the phones do not cease playing Beethoven, Mozart. ..." he said. "This immorality has even penetrated mosques, and therefore we are ask all those who use these devices and bring them into the mosques to be God-fearing. My brother, why don't you put just [makes imitation of simple cell-phone ring] and that's it. Why do you need this [another imitation of ring tone]." Defintely not this [an imitation of Hell's Bells]
Muslims on pilgrimage to Mecca circle the Ka'ba as part of their rituals.
Posted by: ed ||
08/05/2004 10:59:01 AM ||
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#1
...much like they circle the drain in the gene pool.
#2
I thought at everyone at the Ka'ba circling gig is supposed to dress in simple white robes and leave all their worldly junk behind. The imam should not be railing against Beethoven and Mozart, but rather all cell phones at the gig. But what do I know, I am just a dumb infidel who occasionally issues fatwas on a whim.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/05/2004 11:58 Comments ||
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#3
My fellow Shiek, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon you, may I most respectfully remind you that we already banned the "vibrate" function of these kufir devices because too many good, pious Muslims were putting them in haram places on their holy persons . . . and women were hiding them in immoral places and calling each other repeatedly . . .
Posted by: Shiek Mohammed Abdullah Abdul Hajiz Ibrahim ibn al-Mohammed ||
08/05/2004 12:01 Comments ||
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#5
And while we're at it, we should ban all of these infidel devices! I declare a fatwa right now that cellular phones are haram! Allah gave men smoke signals and shouting to communicate over long distances! May He curse those who use modern conveniences!
Posted by: Sheik Mohammed Abdullah Abdul Hajiz Ibrahim ibn al-Mohammed ||
08/05/2004 12:26 Comments ||
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#6
Sheik would have a freakin' coronary with Metallica or Pantera over the cell speaker, wouldn't he?
#7
Interesting that the sheik (isn't that Arabic for "jerk"?) is upset about the Western music playing in a "holy place," but not about the rudeness of the cell phones themselves going off.
Nice to know he's got his priorities straight.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/05/2004 13:02 Comments ||
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#8
Think we could ship them over "A-hab the A-rab" on them?
Ten days before the Olympic Games start in Athens, passes allowing vehicles into several venues, including the Olympic village, have been stolen. A security source told the Telegraph that the passes were taken from the windscreens of unattended official vehicles. Genius. But it gets better!
According to sources in Athoc, the games have been hit by another security failure, after plans to check the backgrounds of staff, contractors and volunteers were dropped as organisers ran out of time. The problems began in mid-May, when organisers began recruiting 7,000 workers to undertake jobs from general receptionists to housekeepers at the Olympic village. With so many people to process in only three months, the planned background checks were scrapped. This sounds like the makings of a secure situation...
Now thousands of staff and contractors with unverified histories are moving freely around supposedly secure venues because formal accreditation passes, bearing photos of the holder, have still not been issued. Instead, Athoc is relying on so-called "bump-in" passes, which are handwritten and issued without photographs or background checks.
The accreditation problem is so worrying that police and soldiers guarding some venues are now asking workers for a passport or other documents to supplement the inadequate passes. Unbelievable. I'll be watching from my couch, thanks.
#1
Throw in a strike and a few thousand phones not working, and we have, as Gunny Highway would so eloquently call it, a genuine clusterfuck in the making.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/05/2004 14:42 Comments ||
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Uh oh... I thought it looked like the bad guyz were giving Athens a pass, in spite of the possibilities. Duh. Wishful thinking. This be very very bad. The stolen passes are one thing - one that could have been solved by re-issuing passes distinctly different from the old ones.
But if they haven't been doing background checks anyway, hell, all bets are off. I echo Franks' reaction: unfuckingbelievable. So much for security. I don't wonder if some group will try an attack, now, I only wonder how many groups will do so.
#4
It's clearly in bad taste, but should we ape an old Marc Herold midwife effort and do an 'Athens Body Count' / Rantburg Future on the over / under? The only thing in question now is the actual number.
#5
I'm betting on zero casualties. Not because of any security measures or lack thereof, but because I don't see the politics involved as favouring an Islamofascist attack in this place and time.
Most of my optimistic predictions have failed me in the past, ofcourse -- the pessimistic ones are the ones that tend to come true.
#6
I hope zero is right, Aris. I've hated the politicization of the Olympics throught modern history - it's the one international event that truly deserves to be cleaned up and taken off the political table. [/idealistic foolishness]
#8
The problems began in mid-May, when organisers began recruiting 7,000 workers to undertake jobs from general receptionists to housekeepers at the Olympic village.
Let's do the math:
Mid-May to August = 3 1/2 months - 14 weeks - 70 business days
7,000 applicants in 70 days = 100 background checks a day, not including disqualifications and verification follow-ups. The actual figure is probably closer to 120 CHECKS PER DAY.
Now, consider that they needed 7,000 people and, more likely, some 14,000 applied for these jobs. That would suddenly double the figure of merit to 240 CHECKS PER DAY. That's processing over 30 PER HOUR or ONE BACKGROUND CHECK EVERY TWO MINUTES, by a staff of how many?
Whoever approved that optimistic completion schedule should be out on a street corner with a tin cup. They have effectively put in danger the lives of everyone attending the Olympics. In light of the extensive preparations required by an Olympic event, all of this was directly foreseeable. This is the exact opposite of rocket science. Any good police detective would have laughed out loud at such a throughput projection.
Turkey must continue trading with Iraq, Foreign Trade Minister Kursat Tuzmen said on Thursday, despite a spate of abductions and at least two killings of Turkish truck drivers by militants, but it is taking new security measures.
Tuzmen's comments came days after a leading Turkish haulage group said it would stop ferrying goods to US forces in Iraq because of the lack of law and order there. Another industry group has said it will continue transporting goods to Iraq.
"This trade will continue for a country which has to make and develop its trade," Tuzmen told reporters.
"For us the most important issue is people's safety. We are therefore taking measures to reduce risks to the lowest possible level and are making the necessary contacts," he said.
Tuzmen said goods would be transported in future from Turkey to a secure place in Iraq where they could be stored until Iraqi drivers could deliver them to their final destinations.
Tuzmen said Turkey was estimating exports to Iraq of up to $1.8 billion for 2004. He added that exports through the end of July had reached $1.06 billion.
Officials say there has been about a five percent drop in the number of trucks going to Iraq since news broke on Monday of the killing of the first Turkish driver.
Some 1,500 vehicles had been crossing the Turkish-Iraqi border each day before the killing, the officials say.
The United States has urged Turkey, a NATO ally, to continue trading in Iraq and not to bow to the militants' pressure.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 9:21:49 AM ||
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Officials say there has been about a five percent drop in the number of trucks going to Iraq since news broke on Monday of the killing of the first Turkish driver.
I figured way more than that, we used to get a 15 percent drop during hunting season.
Dutch media is publishing about a research report that states that a local muslim party would do well in the cities Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Den Haag and Utrecht during the next municipal elections in 2006. The Arab European League (http://www.ael.nl)has stated they are going to participate with their Muslim "Democratic" Party in the Dutch municipal elections of 2006.
Posted by: Dutchgeek ||
08/05/2004 9:03:26 AM ||
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#1
Twenty/thirty years ago the Dutch got suckered into the PC mantra of "multiculturalism is wonderful even though there are no jobs to fill and assimilatation/melting pot is an evil docterine" to the nth degree. So now Dutch jails and welfare lines are filled with disaffected immigrants who have no attachment to Holland and hold nothing but contempt for the people whose generosity they abuse. The Dutch politicians have decided recently to change their liberal,idiotic immigration policies and are evn DEPORTING immigrants who have failed to qualify for asylum and immigrants who have criminal records, etc, much to the horror of the "usual suspects"
in human rights organizations.
Howvwer, the damage has been done already with unbridled immigration[hint, hint],daisy chain family reunification[hint, hint], and low birth rates of native Dutch so now it has become a simple numbers came. For example in Rotterdam, 50% of the population is made up of immigrants. So the Muslim immigrants, which comprise most of the Dutch immigrants of recent years, may be able to control government in the not too distant future. So the Dutch have to hope that the ROP schtick that political talking heads yak to the plebs is true or their butts will not be safe. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/18/wneth18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/02/18/ixnewstop.html
"Dutch to kick out failed asylum seekers"
Feb. 18/04
Posted by: rex ||
08/05/2004 12:11 Comments ||
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Posted by: ed ||
08/05/2004 14:16 Comments ||
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#4
I see a cultural exchange possibility here. The Nederlanders could help Bangladesh with flood engineering - and the Bangles could teach the Dutch the joys of Shari'a. A Win-Screwed deal.
#5
Here's the nasty footnote to the story of Holland trying to deport phoney asylum applicants. According to the UN Human Rights Commission, immigrants who have no documentation re: their birth country CANNOT be deported, no matter that their asylum case has no merit. These immigrants become "keepers" to the nation whose borders they manage to penetrate, subsequently gain access to forged Dutch ID paperwork, and are ripe for recruitment by AQ for nefarious ventures against Western countries. Critics said the new law would prove unenforceable since international rules stopped states deporting refugees who had no documents, or who lied about their origin. The Justice Ministry admitted that many would have to be let loose on Dutch streets if they refused to accept a free flight home and a repatriation cash bonus after spending a two-month stint in a deportation centre...A parliamentary report last month concluded that the country's 30-year experiment in tolerant multiculturalism had been a failure, ending in sink schools, violence, and ethnic ghettoes that shun inter-marriage with the Dutch.It found that 70-80 per cent of third-generation Dutch-born immigrants brought in their spouse from their "home" countries, mostly Turkey and Morocco.The consequences of this were brought home after September 11, 2001 when the intelligence service discovered that al-Qa'eda was "stealthily taking root in Dutch society".
..."They will become illegal immigrants without any right to benefits. There is nothing else we can do," said a spokesman, acknowledging that they could be drawn into the criminal underworld.
From the article in #1 post.
Posted by: rex ||
08/05/2004 15:27 Comments ||
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The obvious solution is to deport them into international territory, past the 12 mile limit.
Posted by: ed ||
08/05/2004 15:33 Comments ||
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One of them win-screwed deals
sounding good
I'm stealing that for my off the cuff commentary.
#8
Simple enough fix,load them on an old frieghter,sail it to the 12 mile limit a Muslem country(I don't,care anyone will do).Then anchor,destroy the engines,off-load plenty of food and water.Then swiftly sail away.
#9
and hispanic americans dont vote for hispanic parties -most vote Dem, but increasing numbers vote Republican - much like the experience of earlier immigrant groups(hint, hint)
Most Hispanics integrate into American society after a generation or two (sorry, Pat Buchanan). When I lived in California, I read a figure that said Mexicans had a 40% intermarriage rate with Americans. Some people also tend to forget that our south of the border friends have a lot in common with us: Christian morality, same alphabet, lots of similar words, etc.
That is not the case with Muslim immigrants to Europe (Muslims coming to the U.S. tend to be far, far better educated than what washes ashore in the EU). These immigrants don't become part of the culture; one only has to study the experiences of Turkish gastarbiters in Germany to see this. Perhaps it's the huge difference in languages. Perhaps the Muslim immigrant is so disgusted by the lax morality of their European neighbors that they would never want to integrate. Don't know. However, what I do know is that Europe (and Canada to a lesser degree) is about to reap the bitter harvest that only multiculturalism can sow. There's a reason that "Balkanization" is not considered a compliment.
#11
With all due respect LH and Dreadnaught, I think what you said about Hispanic voters and their characteristics is based more on wishful thinking than it on fact.
Regarding Hispanics' voting habits, they are traditionally a strong Democrat voting base. There has not been much change for the past 30 years, so new Hispanic immigrant voters do not change their party affiliation much after they have been here several decades.
In the 2000 Presidential election, 62% of Hispanics voted for Gore. The only Latin American speaking immigrants who typically vote Republican are Cubans. And it was the Cuban voters who helped GWB in Florida re: the electoral vote.
As to Hispanics' identifying with hard working conservative family church going values...wrong again...according to census information, Hispanic unwed women were the leading group to have babies out of marriage and as teenagers, suggesting that the Catholic Church's "be a virgin until marriage" was no longer important to this group. Also, Hispanic single parent households are in great preponderance in the USA, suggesting that church sanctioned marriage till death do us part was no longer important. Furthermore, although Hispanics represent 14% of the population they represented 20% of the 3,725 AIDS cases reported for youth ages 13 to 19 between 1981 and 1999, suggesting increased homosexual promiscuity or IV drug use, more likely the former, and also suggesting decrease Catholic Church influence.
So all these warm and fuzzy sentiments about "conservative" Hispanics has no factual basis, according to demographic statistics. Sorry to rain on your parade.
Hispanics have the highest teenage pregnancy rate of any racial or ethnic group. Although the birth rate for Hispanic teens fell 12 percent between 1991 and 2000, they had a fertility rate of 94 births per 1,000 women aged 15-19, almost twice as high as the national average of 50 births per 1,000 teens.
In 2000, 42 percent of live births to Hispanic women were to unwed mothers, compared with 69 percent for Blacks and 22 percent for non-Hispanic whites.
In 2000, Hispanics were less likely to have ever been married than non-Hispanic whites. About three fourths of non-Hispanic whites have ever been married, compared with 67 percent of Hispanics.
About one-third of Hispanic households was headed by a single parent, compared to 18 percent for non-Hispanic whites.
Hispanics were less likely to be employed in 2000 than non-Hispanic whites but more likely to be employed than blacks. Unemployment was higher for Mexicans (7%) and Puerto Ricans (8%) than for Cubans (6%) and Central and South Americans (5%).
Although Hispanics were estimated to account for ten percent of the voting-age population in 2000, they accounted for only seven percent of the vote. Decreased voter participation among Hispanics may be due in part to the greater likelihood that a Hispanic resident of the U.S. is not a citizen. Only 24 percent of foreign-born Hispanics who entered the U.S. between 1980 and 1989 are U.S. citizens; less than half of those who entered between 1970 and 1979 have become citizens. According to the Census Bureau, the number of voting Hispanics increased "sharply" between the 1994 and 1998 congressional elections, from 3.5 million to 4.1 million voters. The percentage of eligible Hispanics who voted slightly decreased, however, from 34 to 33 percent. Hispanics were much less likely to vote than the national average of 45 percent.
Historically, Latinos are more likely to vote for Democratic candidates. Since 1976, Republican presidential candidates have won no more than 37 percent of the Hispanic vote, when Ronald Reagan ran in 1980 and 1984. George W. Bush won 35 percent of the Hispanic vote compared with 62 percent for Al Gore.
Posted by: rex ||
08/05/2004 21:57 Comments ||
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#12
Rex,
Nice straw man arguments.
1. Didn't say Hispanics had superior morality. My point is that they come from countries that are nominally Christian, which reduces the isolation that those immigrants have in the U.S.
2. Didn't say Hispanics voted Republican. The fact that they vote Democrat by two-thirds as opposed to La Raza shows that they participate in the system. American Blacks vote Democratic to the tune of 90%. And while some of us here at RB may view the Democratic Party as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Al Qaeda, it hasn't come to that yet (I hope).
3. So Puerto Ricans are 8% unemployed. That means 92% are employed. In Europe, Muslims are grossly un- and under-employed to what percent I don't know, but anecdotally it appears to be very high.
My main objection to LH was simply that while Muslims in Europe and Hispanics in the U.S. are large immigrant populations, they are not analogous. In fact, all of the problems that you point out with Hispanics may speak volumes to how much more difficulty Europe is going to have with a far more alien and aggressive Muslim culture.
#13
Why call facts straw arguments? Facts are facts.
LH tried to float the idea that Hispanics are like the Irish and Poles of the past and they are not. European immigrants learned English as quickly as they and their children could. They did not demand bi-lingual education. European immigrants would rather starve to death before asking for welfare. Hispanics represent a significant percentage of welfare rescipients. Hispanics undervote. European immigrants took their voting rights seriously, especially the ones who fled from Communist countries. European immigrants never had affirmative action for themselves or for their children to get a leg up in society. Hispanics had politicians over a barrel over affirmative action. European immigrants raised their children to assimilate and be Americans. Hispanics hold themselves separate. They are reluctant to take out citizenship even after living here for years, because up until recently they would lose Mexican citizenship. Straw arguments? I wasn't the one to pass off warm and fuzzy urban legends as fact.
Then yiu said in reply to LH's platitudes: Most Hispanics integrate into American society after a generation or two (sorry, Pat Buchanan). When I lived in California, I read a figure that said Mexicans had a 40% intermarriage rate with Americans. Some people also tend to forget that our south of the border friends have a lot in common with us: Christian morality, same alphabet, lots of similar words, etc. That is not the case with Muslim immigrants to Europe
In response to your claiming that we have alot in common with our "southern friends" including Christian morality, I responded with demographic census statistics to show how wrong you were with that claim. That's not a straw aegument. That's answering you with numbers, with fact, which you appear to want to dismiss off handedly because it does not suit your argument.
Hispanics are not integrated into mainstream America. I don't think we should get on our high horse about how assimilated our Hispanic immigrants are. Have you ever tried to contact a government office in California, in fact most commercial business are offering the same choice on their answering services...ie. English or Spanish? You call that a sign of a "melting pot" society???
As for our educated Muslim immigrants as compared to what you say is the situation in Europe, I'm not sure if that is continuing in the present. A more complex economic profile emerges however, when one considers that poverty and welfare rates among Middle Eastern immigrants were greater than their native counterparts. In 2000, nearly 20 percent of Middle Eastern immigrants lived in poverty, twice the national average."This suggests that Middle Eastern immigration in the United States is perhaps becoming more like that in Western Europe, with a sizable share being lower income and lower middle class, rather than the elite phenomenon that it had been until relatively recently," Camarota said.
As well, the religious affiliation of MR immigrants to the USA has changed in the past 30 years, which may cause them to be more prickly about the decadence of our American culture, which is as bad as Europe's. In 1970, the report estimates that approximately 15 percent of Middle Eastern immigrants were Muslim. By 2000 that proportion had increased to 73 percent. http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/diversity/a081502.htm
Posted by: rex ||
08/05/2004 23:15 Comments ||
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Shortened version:
Picture this: a gigantic cheeseburger (with tomatoes and lettuce) slamming into two high-rise buildings, as cartoon characters run from the flaming ruins. It's clearly a takeoff on the 9/11 terror attacks on the World Trade Center, and according to the Virginia-based Center for Individual Freedom, the illustration appears on page 18 of a 30-page "food diary" distributed by Subway sandwich shops in Germany.
Last week, the Center for Individual Freedom launched a grassroots campaign against anti-American tray-liners at German subway stores. The tray-liners -- a promotion for the film "Super Size Me" -- showed an obese Statue of Liberty holding a burger and fries in her hands, under a headline asking, "Why are Americans so fat?" According to the Center for Individual Freedom, the headline used the word "Amis," which is considered a derogatory term for Americans. The Center says complaints from Americans prompted German Subway shops to pull the tray-liners. But the cheeseburger-crashing-into-buildings image apparently is still out there -- distributed in German subway stores over the past few days. Go to the story to see the illustration ...
Posted by: Baltic Blog ||
08/05/2004 8:14:39 AM ||
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#1
Looks like I will be having a little coraspondence with Subway.It is a pity,too,I like thier sandwichs
#5
It would likely unsettle the Germans if they visited a Subway in Washington, DC to find illustared tray mats with a ham and cheese sub divebombing into Dresden. Just a thought, that's all.
4. Where is SUBWAY® Restaurants headquartered and how many people does it employ?
Doctor's Associates Inc., the franchisor of SUBWAY® Restaurants, employs close to 600 people at its Milford, Conn., headquarters. Worldwide, its franchises employ more than 150,000 men and women throughout the system.
Anyone want to guess who these cocknocks are going to vote for in the upcoming election?
#7
Interesting response at Free Republic, their string on this is inundated with denialists and Subway apologists, which seems most unusual.
I wonder how many Freepers own Subway franchises or whether Subway employees have infiltrated the board?
#8
I've got it: a Subway sandwich, dark gray and with "Ueat2much" painted on the side, sinks in the storm-tossed waves of the North Atlantic as obese German sailors and a monocled officer abandon ship.
Overhead, a stylized hamburger in WW2-era US Navy markings swoops triumphantly away with its lettuce-leaf bomb doors open.
#12
already sent subway may complaint, last week when this fist surfaced here at rb..
It has come to my attention that Subway in Germany is conducting an ad campaign that is very belittling to America and Americans in general. Picturing the Statue Of Liberty as obesit. I find this particularly disgusting and disturbing.
In the pre-911 world I would of noted this but let it go. But today, with large parts of the world spewing lies and hatred of America I cannot stand by while American companies actively engage in them also.
In this post-911 world I will support companies that support America. What I saw and read is not supportive of America.
As of today I am no longer spending my money in any of your establishments.
I do regret this decision in the fact that I really do love eating your Teriyaki Chicken sandwiches.
we should all send subway a little note....i for one will no longer spend my money in any of their establishments!
Posted by: Dan ||
08/05/2004 11:35 Comments ||
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#13
Yet another ad idea for burger-patriots:
Hindenburg crash scene, with a Subway product replacing the airship.
While I am just as furious as anyone of you about this, it seems more of a case of lack of oversight and corporate stupidity more than anything else. Do we need to punish Subway before even giving them the chance to correct the problem?
I for one will give them a second chance provided that they crack down on this kind of thing. I suggested some sort of heavy fine for the German stores or other penalty for whoever gave the green light to the materials in question. I let them know that my continued patronage would depend on their response. I think this is fair. I don't think we need to try and bring the company down for what seems like a really dumb mistake of not watching their German stores closely enough.
Tell me, who would suspect something like this? As dumb as it sounds, maybe it never seemed necessary to them to vet these kinds of materials for these sorts of subtle messages before now. Isn't it true that many people still underestimate the anti-Americanism of Europe? Isn't it true that most of us here have only recently begun to appreciate it. I say give Subway and other American franchises a chance to catch up to the rest of us just to be fair.
#15
Keep 'em coming, AC! Tea alert, every one of your ideas!
Maybe show Hitler eating a Subway sandwich before he commits suicide?
Posted by: The Doctor ||
08/05/2004 11:56 Comments ||
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#16
Let the boys and girls play. They are turning a small outrage into an innocent source of merriment.....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/05/2004 12:01 Comments ||
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#17
Bad for Subway, good for Blimpies, Quiznos, and such.
#14 I have emailed a complaint stating that I will not patronize thier stores until they make the change. Once the adds are pulled I will gladly return as I love their BMT.
#19
re #15
Many thanks, Doc.
I think I'll put all these ideas together (yours too) and send them to Burger King and McDonald's, with a (dis)courtesy copy for Subway.
AP, in my experience, corporate franchise types are very sensitive to ridicule. I think mockery is the best response in this case.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
08/05/2004 12:34 Comments ||
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#21
Ya' know, my all-time favorite mock-ad also had a German connection. This was National Lampoon's 1977 variation on Volkswagen's "Bugs will float" campaign: "If Ted Kennedy had driven a Volkswagen, he'd be President today."
This was one of the very few NatLamp pieces that was actually pulled in response to complaints. Many folks, it seems, had taken it for a real VW ad. I have heard that not all of them were upset, but VW North America threatened to sue anyway.
IIRC, young PJ O'Rourke was a co-author of the piece.
#25
I think it was the same issue as Meat Lie or about the same time. Another favorite was the "National Revenge" issue from about 1983, which featured a fist punching a bearded Arab's face on the cover.
#29
Do we need to punish Subway before even giving them the chance to correct the problem?
Of course! If they simply 'correct' the problem without suffering any repercussions, what's to prevent them from doing it again? And how does that dissuade other firms from doing the same?
#33
Here's an image that is, apparently on-topic -- but I do not know anything about the incident for which it was created. Can anyone fill me in regards the Subway - MJ connection?
#34
.com - No apology needed - you're cool - the problem is on my end. The brass is still PO'd I introduced some of newly imported workmates (Pakistani women) to the liberating effects of alcohol. No offense Barbara, Jen, SgtMom, Angie, rbk, Seafarious, et al - but there is nothing funnier than having to explain to the brass that the previously reticent Ms. XXX will not be in today due to a broken arm suffered during a fall while dancing on a table and hollering "WOOOOOOHOOOOO!!!!"
I've been asked to be 'more culturally sensitive" by the HR p***k manager. Maybe I shoulda ordered King Fisher or Hawards 5000 for everyone? heh
#37
I have a Subway just around the corner and talked to the manager today. He said that the ads were rather "forced upon them" by the U.S. headquarters but he (and many other German Subway managers) removed them early because the German (!) clients didn't like them at all and some threatened to boycot Subway.
So it was not a "lack of oversight", this was deliberately planned by U.S. headquarters. A shot in the foot obviously.
#38
Probably the best response I have seen to this is one poster at nicedoggie.net said he was for the boycott; anything that would shorten the lines at Subway. ;o)
#39
#14 Peggy although Subway has pulled the âSuper Size Meâ promotion,, their spokesperson, Les Winogad, seems otherwise unrepentant and far from apologetic. See Lisa Burgess' Stars and Stripes report 8/04/04. http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=23614
#40
I liked my adds better anyways. Clay and I would be willing to come back if they gave us a call.
Posted by: Jared ||
08/05/2004 14:52 Comments ||
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#41
Furrin ad companies often have ...uh, independent... notions of fun ways of hawking their clients' products. Take, for example, this tale (from my blog) about the Taiwanese ad firm which thought that using a little cartoon Hitler would be great way to advertise German-made heaters. The Germans, of course, pert near had a stroke, and the heater company had the ads removed. (You can see the ad in the Taipei Times article linked in my post. Click on the little image to get a bigger one.)
Where do you stand on the "Yank" vs. "Jap" translation of "Ami", TGA?
#43
"Ami" is not a derogatory term per se, it can have any meaning you want. It can be used in an endearing, mocking or derogatory way. Or simply in a neutral shorter colloquial way for "American". You would not use it in formal occasions though.
I use it all the time.
I'd consider "Jap" derogatory per se, "Yank" (hardly ever used in Germany) only in context. "Kraut" was meant to be derogatory but it can be used in an endearing way as well although "Ami" would be more neutral in comparison imho.
Something more on the Subway ads. They were obviously developed as an experiment by Hamburg students of advertising and the incriminated one was picked by Subway.
Subway is expanding rapidly in Germany, they have about 100 stores by now and are planning for 1500 in 2010.
Dunno, I don't eat there. The local Italian sandwich stalls and little shops are so much better.
#44
Thanks TGA,
I didn't care if German's use the expanding Statue of Liberty ad, especially since Germans are also some of the fattest (and most prosperous) people on the planet. But using flying hamburgers crashing into flaming skyscrapers does piss me off, and contributes to the hardening of my, and other Americans, attitude.
The groups also objected to the promotionâs âderogatoryâ use of the word âAmi,â as shorthand for âAmerican,â Boehm said.
âItâs a little like calling someone from Japan a âJapâ,â Boehm said. âNo other major U.S. corporation markets their product by making ethnic, religious, or prejudicialâ references to their customers.
Winograd disagreed with the Boehmâs translation of the German phrase.
ââAmiâ is an affectionate nickname, more like calling an American a âYankâ,â he said.
So is Ami derogatory or not? Or is it in the way one says it? Because I can't imagine (yet) and ad using "Kraut" or even the neutral "Fritz" to refer to Germans.
Posted by: ed ||
08/05/2004 15:19 Comments ||
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#45
I just ate a Quizno's Italian. Beats the heck out of the equivalent Subway BMT.
Subway should know better. But Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream should have too, but they also went over the edge long ago.
#46
Thanks for answering my question even before I posted. Talk about fast service. Yeah, Subway is the worst of the Sandwich franchises. Quizno's or the local chains do a much better job.
Posted by: ed ||
08/05/2004 15:23 Comments ||
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#47
My contribution to the cause:
Please be advised that, in response to your German anti-American in-store campaign (fat Statue of Liberty, cheeseburger attacking the World Trade Center in the food diary) I and all my friends and family will be boycotting Subway. A pity, as my husband is particularly fond of your subs, and now I shall have to cook dinner a good deal more often.
According to one of my German correspondents, the managers at his nearby Subway claim this ad campaign was foisted on them -- against their will -- by the home office in Milford. Apparently the German customers find the campaign so distasteful they are threatening to boycott.
Very stupid move, guys! And, I suspect, a very costly one. Surveys have established that in consumer product industries, each actual complaint stands for around ten-fold number of unhappy customers, and each unhappy customer shares his experience with between 10 and 100 friends. And, don't forget how much more it costs to win back an unhappy customer than to retain a loyal one, if it can be done at all in a market with established competitors.
#48
Btw I was referring to the fat lady only... the manager said he hadn't seen the cheeseburger in towers thing...
Although I think this is more about a student trying to be funny. It seems a bit absurd for an American franchise chain trying to be "Anti American" in order to attract German customers.
American products are bought BECAUSE they are American (hence cool). To sell anything "typically" American with an anti-American stance should get the marketing guy fired immediately. You think anyone would pay 150⬠for some spiffy Nikes if they had "Quality Chinese product" written all over them?
The obesity thing is nonsense as well. Germans aren't really slimmer than Americans (I happened to see one shining example just today who looked like he had Michael Moore for breakfast! Complete with shorts, sandals and white socks...)
If you have your ads made by students, check them a bit better, Subway.
#49
Re #41 Kennedy-VW ad.
Great catch, Angie, I haven't seen that in twenty-five years. It brings back glowing memories of the heyday of American satire: so much to mock--- Carter, disco, commercial hippies, shag hairstyles (carpets too), Battlestar Galactica---- and only the helpless squeaks of nascent PCism to get in the way.
Still, Chappaquiddick was 35 years ago. Ted Kennedy is now past 70. He is in poor health and has had to endure a variety of trials tribulations and tragedies in his family.
Don't y'all think it's time to back off and let him live out his remaining years with some kind of peace and dignity?
#58
Wow, .com, that's a lot of . . . pics. Does your wife know about them? Where do you find all these?
(Not that I'm going to go looking for them myself, you understand!)
Posted by: The Doctor ||
08/05/2004 17:40 Comments ||
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#59
Shipman,
The original Doyle, Dane, Bernbach ad campaign for Volkswagen has a crucial role in Thomas Franks' The Conquest of Cool, the landmark cultural history that I am always citing in my attacks on media culture.
According to Frank, DDB originated the "illusion of rebellion" advertising trope that is the basis of modern media culture. The early VW campaigns, with their amusing contrast to Detroit chrome and flash, were a seminal example.
Also according to Frank, DDB practically invented the 60s Counterculture during a series of seminars and conferences in 1964.
("Counterculture" is capitalized because there was, and still is, an actual counterculture of artists and bohemian types that dates back to the 1880s. By definition, a mass-market counterculture cannot exist, but a conformist style that falsely presents itself as counterculture can. This is what DDB invented.)
The trappings of left-wing politics are, of course, part and parcel of this approach (think Che t-shirt); which is probably why media oriented elements of society are the center of gravity of the present-day "Left."
The Left as we know it is little more than an advertising gimmick run amok.
#61
Shipman,are you sure you don't mean "FROM THOSE WONDERFUL FOLKS WHO BROUGHT YOU PEARL HARBOR" by Jerry Della Femina(sp.?).Somewhere I have the paperback w/that title.
BTW,I have stopped going to Subway and will not go back until everyone who approved w/ad campaign is fired.Management obviously thought what happens in Germany,stays in Germany.
Posted by: Stephen ||
08/05/2004 23:12 Comments ||
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If the kimono or chicken curry eventually join the maple leaf, the hockey stick and the beaver as Canadian icons, then so be it. Thus goes the thinking of multiculturalism, the official doctrine of the government for nearly 50 years, and by now a value ingrained on the broader society.
The minaret has been welcome, too, in this otherwise secular society where fewer and fewer people go to church but more than a hundred mosques have cropped up in recent years. But even here, tolerance has its limits, and the question of where to draw the line can be a tricky one, especially when an increasing number of immigrants come from societies with vastly different values.
A group called the Canadian Society of Muslims is testing those boundaries by establishing the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice to apply the legal code called Shariah, based on the Koran, to settle disputes over property, inheritance, marriage and divorce. The prospect of Shariah's operating openly here has already stirred a powerful controversy centering on an uncomfortable issue for any liberal society with an expanding Muslim population that now numbers 600,000: Can a predominately Judeo-Christian society trust Islamic religious rules to protect the rights of all individuals?
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
08/05/2004 11:48:12 AM ||
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#1
Can a predominately Judeo-Christian society trust Islamic religious rules to protect the rights of all individuals?
Hmm . . . let me think . . . NO!
They don't like the laws, they can go to some Islamic dump. They don't want to, they can follow our laws. That simple.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
08/05/2004 12:07 Comments ||
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#2
"Basically, Muslims live a different kind of life from the Western life, which is secular,"
then stay in your own frickin muslim shithole country!
Posted by: Dan ||
08/05/2004 12:34 Comments ||
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#3
If two private parties have a private dispute (i. e. civil, not criminal) who cares how they reach a settlement?
Agreed the life of an immigrtant woman can be tough, with or without ADR using sharia. But that's an independent issue.
Posted by: Mr. Davis ||
08/05/2004 12:48 Comments ||
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#4
Muslim arbitrators have not made a single public decision yet, but Canada would presumably never allow the stoning of adulterous women or cutting off the hand of a thief, both allowable forms of punishment in some Muslim societies under an extreme variation of Shariah.
Nah, that would never happen. Until, of course, it does.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/05/2004 12:57 Comments ||
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"Basically, Muslims live a different kind of life from the Western life, which is secular," he noted in an interview.
In theory true for Orthodox Jews as well.
"Everything we do is governed by religious law." For Mr. Ali, it is perfectly acceptable that a son receive twice the inheritance of a daughter and that a man have the automatic right to divorce while a woman does not.
Dont recall Jewish inheritance law, but I dont think its identical to common law.
Note that under Jewish law, per Biblical law a man may divorce his wife and a woman may NOT divorce her husband. The rabbis got around this by giving the rabbinic courts the right to coerce a man into divorcing his wife. This worked when Jews had no escape from rabbinal courts. Today if a Jewish man who leaves observant Judaism behind for secular society is free of Jewish courts, creating a MAJOR problem of women who cant get a rabbinic divorce.
Canadians voluntarily waive their legal rights all the time, but it is the obligation of the courts to ensure that they have independent legal advice before doing so. Critics of Shariah say Muslim women would be deprived of their rights because, even after emigrating, they frequently live in isolation from the broader society and are beholden to men who routinely tell them what to do and say.
Logical solution - require consultation with a lawyer before waiving of any rights, or agreeement to arbitration.
Federal investigators concluded that Sen. Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.) divulged classified intercepted messages to the media when he was on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, according to sources familiar with the probe. Specifically, Fox News chief political correspondent Carl Cameron confirmed to FBI investigators that Shelby verbally divulged the information to him during a June 19, 2002, interview, minutes after Shelby's committee had been given the information in a classified briefing, according to the sources, who declined to be identified because of the sensitive nature of the case. Cameron did not air the material. Moments after Shelby spoke with Cameron, he met with CNN reporter Dana Bash, and about half an hour after that, CNN broadcast the material, the sources said. CNN cited "two congressional sources" in its report.
The FBI and the U.S. attorney's office pursued the case, and a grand jury was empaneled, but nobody has been charged with any crime. Last month it was revealed that the Justice Department had decided to forgo a criminal prosecution, at least for now, and turned the matter over to the Senate Ethics Committee. The Justice Department declined to comment on why it was no longer pursuing the matter criminally. The Senate ethics panel also declined to comment on its investigation.
The disclosure involved two messages that were intercepted by the National Security Agency on the eve of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks but were not translated until Sept. 12. The Arabic-language messages said "The match is about to begin" and "Tomorrow is zero hour." The Washington Post, citing senior U.S. intelligence officials, reported the same messages in its June 20, 2002, editions.
National security officials were outraged by the leak, and moments after the CNN broadcast a CIA official chastised committee members who had by then reconvened to continue the closed-door hearing.
Intelligence officials, who consider intercepted communications among the most closely guarded secrets, said the breach proved that Congress could not be trusted with classified information. But experts in electronic surveillance said the information about the NSA's intercepts contained nothing harmful because it did not reveal the source of the information or the methods used to gather it.
Vice President Cheney upbraided the Senate and House committee chairmen in separate phone calls the next day, and White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said President Bush had deep concerns about "anything that could harm our ability to maintain sources and methods, and anything that could interfere with America's ability to fight the war on terrorism." The panels' chairmen, Sen. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.), responded immediately by requesting a Justice Department investigation into the disclosure, an unusual move that brought criticism from other members of Congress. -snip-I would have thought it was Leahy.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/05/2004 9:55:39 PM ||
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EFL- I'm sure there will be many who would call these proceedings a Kangaroo Court, but as compared to trials in Iran the Hague and Los Angeles, I think Military tribunals are just the ticket.
GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba (AP) - Four Guantanamo Bay prisoners have refused to take part in U.S. military review hearings, leaving a panel of officers to examine the cases without testimony from the detainees, military officials said Wednesday. That news was confirmed as Navy Secretary Gordon England was to visit the naval base to observe the review hearings, called to examine the status of hundreds of terror suspects held at the prison and to determine if they should remain in detention.
Four detainees whose cases came up Monday and Tuesday "chose not to participate in the process," said Cmdr. Beci Brenton, a Navy spokeswoman. "These are just four detainees who have historically not cooperated," Brenton said. "They've not interacted with interrogators." It wasn't clear whether the men attended their hearings.
Two other detainees went before the review panel Friday and Saturday, and the second one summoned a fellow detainee as a witness, Brenton said. Witnesses allowed - better than Cuba and Saudi Arabia.
Recommendations by the three-member military panel have yet to be announced. Reporters are to be allowed inside hearings starting Thursday, but the military says it will close portions deemed classified. Reporters are not allowed to name any of the prisoners. A hint of transparancy and freedom of the press - how innovative.
Human rights groups criticize the process as a sham, saying the three officers assigned to hear cases can't be considered impartial and that each detainee should be allowed a lawyer. "What you have is a process that would be suitable for resolving a dispute over a parking ticket. It's not an acceptable process," said Alistair Hodgett, of Amnesty International. "It's really an after-the-fact justification for detaining people without charge or fair trial."
Though a federal judge in Washington refused a request Tuesday to halt hearings for two Algerians, defense lawyers said they were pleased that Judge Richard Leon nevertheless said statements detainees make during reviews can be excluded from court proceedings. The review panels are separate from a military tribunal being set up to try at least four detainees, starting with pretrial hearings planned in late August.
Military lawyer Lt. Cmdr. Charlie Swift, who is representing Salim Ahmed Hamdan of Yemen, said he has objected to being barred from his review hearing because it could harm his client's case at trial. Hamdan is charged with conspiracy to attack civilians, to murder and to commit terrorism. Notice how the military lawyer is defending his client. Military lawyers don't pull punches and are not patsies. JAG is a little over the top, but A Few Good Men was pretty accurate - I especially liked it when Tom Cruise stupidly wore the wrong uniform.
Each detainee is being assigned a military officer as a "personal representative" at his review. But Swift said that officer, like panel members, is functionally a "government agent" who will not act in Hamdan's best interest.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/05/2004 9:30:04 PM ||
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... Karpinski told British Broadcasting Corp. radio that she had information suggesting officials took action to keep her in the dark about the mistreatment.
"I have been told there's a reliable witness who's made a statement ... indicating that not only was I not included in any of the meetings discussing interrogation operations, but specific measures were taken to ensure I would not have access to those facilities, that information or any of the details of interrogations at Abu Ghraib or anywhere else," Karpinski said. She didn't identify the witness.
"Correct," Karpinski responded when asked if she thought there was a conspiracy at senior level to stop her knowing what was going on.
"From what I understand ... it was people that had full knowledge of what was going on out at Abu Ghraib who knew that they had to keep Janis Karpinski from discovering any of those activities," she added.
Asked whether she thought the conspiracy reached up to the Pentagon or the White House, she said: "The indication is that it may have."
-snip-
Karpinski seems to be a class A1 idiot. I don't know why she would think that going to the British press is going to help her case.
As for the conspiracy theory, of course there was one. Did she expect that the perpetrators would have drafted status reports about their activities to keep the chain of command informed of their activities? They were a group of people engaged in organized and criminal activity - a conspiracy - and went out of their way to prevent information about their activities from reaching those who were in change and were not part of the abuse.
Karpinski is not guilty of leading a prisoner around by a leash or giving her people orders to do such. She is guilty of being in charge of an embarrassing sloppy and inept operation; in which discipline was so lax that chaos reigned.
As for why information was kept from her after the incidents in question, it is standard to not provide information on the investigation in progress to a possible/probable subject of the investigation. Anyway, at that point Karpinski had already committed her crime: a total failure to lead.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/05/2004 9:48:01 PM ||
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A captured al-Qaeda operative whose computer files described surveillance of key U.S. financial centers contacted people in the USA as recently as this year, two U.S. officials with knowledge of counterterrorism efforts said Wednesday. Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan, an al-Qaeda computer expert who was arrested July 13 in Lahore, Pakistan, also is believed to have connections with unidentified operatives who could be planning pre-election attacks in the USA, said the officials, who may not discuss such matters publicly.
The officials would not say how many people in the USA were contacted by Khan, 25. It also was unclear whether those he contacted were al-Qaeda operatives or unwitting associates of the suspected terrorist. But the officials said the FBI is examining whether the communication was part of an al-Qaeda effort — described in separate intelligence made public in April — to disrupt the Nov. 2 elections. The officials said the communication from Khan — along with files on his computer that indicated al-Qaeda had done surveillance on five U.S. financial institutions dating to before the 9/11 attacks, and separate streams of intelligence that suggested threats to the USA — led to the terrorism alert announced Sunday for New York City, Newark, N.J., and Washington.
Included in the separate intelligence was a "serious" threat to New York, said two U.S. intelligence officials who are not allowed to comment publicly. They did not describe the threat or its source but said it is being investigated. U.S. officials still say they have no evidence an attack is imminent. But with the Bush administration facing questions about whether the alert was based on dated evidence of al-Qaeda surveillance, officials are giving a fuller picture of the factors behind the alert.
Meanwhile, continuing streams of intelligence suggesting a pre-election attack have led U.S. authorities to focus on the 60 days before the elections as the main period for concern, said a U.S. law enforcement official who does not speak publicly about such reports.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 11:35:57 AM ||
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The Bush administration learned from a third person, separate from two prisoners identified this week, that al-Qaeda was plotting to attack American financial buildings, officials said. The information from the third person was "another new stream of intelligence" that supported the White House decision to issue a terror warning on Sunday, the officials said.
The information arrived days before the public alert, as officials were reviewing reams of recently obtained documents and photographs that showed surveillance of five buildings in New York City, New Jersey and Washington carried out years earlier by al-Qaeda. "Old information isn't irrelevant information — particularly with this kind of enemy," Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said Wednesday in Nashville
The information corroborating al-Qaeda's intentions to carry out attacks against U.S. financial buildings came from someone other than two men recently captured in Pakistan, said a senior Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity. It was unclear whether the person was a prisoner or informant. Information from the two captives — a young militant familiar with computers and a man indicted for the U.S. embassy bombings in Africa in 1998 — had provided the bulk of the intelligence that led to Sunday's warnings.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 9:34:09 AM ||
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JAKARTA, Indonesia — Shifting tactics, an al-Qaida-linked group that staged the deadliest post-Sept. 11 terrorist bombing is believed to be planning assassinations of Western and regional leaders in Asia, moving away from large-scale strikes against civilian targets, officials told The Associated Press. Increasingly isolated and on the run, Jemaah Islamiyah's capabilities have been eroded by dozens of arrests, a shortage of money and divisions within its leadership. As a result, the group isn't focusing on coordinated attacks like the 2002 Bali nightclub bombings that killed 202 people and the 2003 suicide bombing of the J.W. Marriott hotel in Jakarta, which killed 12 people, officials told the AP. "The threat has been contained but it is still there and has not been eliminated completely," said Zainal Abidin Zain, director-general of Southeast Asia's U.S.-backed anti-terrorism center in Malaysia.
Jemaah Islamiyah remains the most dangerous terrorist group in Southeast Asia. But the Marriott bombing was the last large-scale attack attributed to the group. Some security officials suggest the arrests of key members — including Hambali, the group's alleged operations chief — has stripped it of the ability to strike big anytime soon. Remnants of Jemaah Islamiyah have tried to regroup in Indonesia so they could launch more strikes, a Malaysian government official said on condition of anonymity. But they were hindered by the absence of a strong leader like Hambali, he said. "There is no one of Hambali's caliber to step in and take over," another Malaysia security official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity. Lack of skill will not prevent someone less talented from stepping into Hambali's shoes. Expect less well-planned atrocities that cause more collateral damage.
Jemaah Islamiyah's alleged leader, Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, is jailed in Indonesia awaiting trial on allegations that he ordered the Marriott attack and other charges. An Afghan-trained Indonesian who goes by the name Zulkarnaen replaced Hambali as operations chief after his arrest last August, authorities say. The group still has an estimated 2,000 operatives throughout Southeast Asia thanks to a recruiting drive. But the organization has been infiltrated by informants, doesn't have enough money and faces a public increasingly intolerant of terrorism, according to Sidney Jones, a terrorism expert who has studied Jemaah Islamiyah. Too bad the local governments aren't "increasingly intolerant" of terrorism.
"All the major bombing operations that we know of involved the transfer of some money from outside," Jones said. "From interrogation depositions that we've gotten hold of, it seems there isn't enough money to support the organization let alone the families of members who have been detained." The Marriott bombing sparked outrage in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, because 11 of the 12 victims were Indonesian, many poorly paid hotel workers and taxi drivers. Muslim lawyers who represented the Bali bombers refused to defend the 14 Marriott suspects, including some who later apologized and are cooperating. HERE'S THE CORKER: Note how the Bali bombers, who killed many more people, still merited defense by Muslim lawyers. However, the Jakarta bombers, who did not kill one tenth the number of people were refused representation because the majority of their victims were Islamic.
Consider the implications very carefully. The lawyers are saying that it is all right to kill hundreds of non-Islamic people but any harm of fellow Muslims commands legal censure. Shouldn't these lawyers be instantly disbarred for showing judicial bias as officers of the court? This sort of "anything goes for the infidels" mentality needs to earn these maggots some swift onset lead poisoning.
The Marriott bombing also sparked divisions within Jemaah Islamiyah, In-donesian police say. Key members pushed to abandon attacks on so-called soft targets, saying they're immoral and fail to further their goals of establishing an Islamic state by 2025, police said. They would rather focus on religious indoctrination and building a base throughout the country. Police have warned that Jemaah Islamiyah is planning attacks to disrupt Indonesia's presidential election Sept. 20. A senior Indonesian anti-terrorism official, Ansyaad Mbai, said police were investigating information that Jemaah Islamiyah has shifted to assassination squads. EMPHASIS ADDED
The military confirmed on Tuesday that it has received reports about an alleged arms shipment to separatist groups in Mindanao but could not say whether or not such shipment landed or has actually reached the Moro rebels. "We received information that there was such shipment sometime in May. Before the supposed landing, we deployed troops and Navy assets but we did not find anything in the supposed location. It's either we deterred the action or they got away. We don't know if that [shipment] happened," said Lt. Gen. Generoso Senga, Southern Command chief.
Senga said reports about the shipment came as early as May this year. However, he said timely government preparation might have prevented the delivery. Reports said that the first of four shipments of weapons to the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) arrived two weeks ago in the coastal towns of Palembang, Sultan Kudarat and Kapatagan, Lanao del Sur. The arms landing reportedly included 1,190 automatic rifles and hundreds of thousands of ammunition rounds. The MILF was also trying to acquire several heavy machineguns and mortars, sources said. But Senga said the MILF would find it difficult to have these firearms transported to the mainland because of the tight military cordon around those areas. The military deployed three battalions along the Lanao coastline a day after the reported delivery of the arms in Kapatagan, but found no trace of the weapons.
Despite this, however, Senga said the military continues to monitor and verify the report. "We have not stopped monitoring and verifying the report day to day," Senga said. Asked if the reported arms shipment would affect the outcome of the peace negotiations between the government and the MILF, Senga said: "We have representatives in the peace process. We are leaving the matter to them. . .at the same time we are monitoring if they [MILF] are committing any violation or provocative [acts]." MILF negotiator Benjie Midtimbang was quoted as saying that the Front was unaware of the arms shipment and called the military report "unsubstantiated." Members of both panels are out to verify and investigate the reports, the military said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 10:10:28 AM ||
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Islamic militants are plotting more attacks in Southeast Asia and may be planning to kill officials involved in the war on terror in addition to hitting Western targets, top security officials said on Thursday. Singapore warned that the Jemaah Islamiah group, linked to the al Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden, was plotting new attacks in Southeast Asia and may be activating dormant agents or cells. "Though some of the Jemaah Islamiah leaders have been caught, younger ones have risen to take their place and sleepers' may have been roused to prepare for activation," Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng said in a speech marking the city-state's Aug. 9 National Day.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 9:41:43 AM ||
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The Bush administration said Wednesday that the United States and its allies had begun a campaign to disrupt terrorist operations around the world, including the arrest of a suspected senior member of Al Qaeda in Britain. The suspected Qaeda operative was among 12 men being questioned by the British authorities after raids prompted in part by the same intelligence information that led the administration to elevate the terror threat level in the United States over the weekend, including detailed reports about buildings housing major financial institutions in New York, New Jersey and Washington. The Qaeda member, referred to as Abu Moussa al-Hindi or Abu Eisa al-Hindi, was of intense interest to the United States, a senior American official said.
A day after senior White House officials said the decision to raise the terror alert level on Sunday had been driven in part by new intelligence beyond the information about specific buildings in the United States, the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan, told reporters that "there are some ongoing operations under way'' to disrupt terrorist activity.
On Wednesday night, the New York City Police Department partly lifted restrictions on trucks and vans entering Manhattan, saying the decision was made because of confidence in the new security measures within the city. In Washington, the senior official said there were "possibly" direct ties between the arrests in Britain and the threats to the buildings in the United States. The official described the arrests as "part of this web that emanates from Pakistan."
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 9:57:04 AM ||
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#1
We seem to be having a good week on this stuff.
They scouted the streets. They took photographs. They wrote detailed surveillance reports. And then, after five years of patiently waiting, Al Qaeda operatives carried out the devastating suicide truck bombing at the American Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, in August 1998, killing more than 200 people and injuring thousands.
This meticulous approach to terrorism - studying targets and fine-tuning strategies for years before an attack - is in part why officials in Washington say they are so alarmed about the latest evidence of reconnaissance of financial centers in New York, New Jersey and Washington, even though much of the information dates back to the days before Sept. 11, 2001. The same studied technique has been central to the most well-known Qaeda attacks, be they in Africa or the United States. Plots that were carried out and failed, and even plots that were considered but abandoned, like a possible attack on the Brooklyn Bridge last year, each demonstrate this same obsession. It is Al Qaeda's hallmark. "Al Qaeda will wait years to act and decades to succeed," Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the federal prosecutor who has been investigating Osama bin Laden for about a decade, told the 9/11 commission this summer.
Investigators also know that even after extensively considering and then dismissing a possible target, the terrorists have simply switched their focus to another location, which may explain the intense precautions imposed around the Capitol this week, even though it is not publicly known whether it was among the buildings that were subjected to surveillance.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 9:52:40 AM ||
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#1
There is another way to look at this. What if Al Queda isn't the DR Evil organization planning for years and then sending out minions to do their tasks. What if Al Queda really is sort of the venture capital of terrorists. They help train the minions and they provide cash to operations that sound promising.
Reports have indicated Atta joined up hoping to fly a plane into an Israeli target. He wanted cash and support for the plan. The plan was accepted and the target was shifted to the US.
I imagine the Kenyan and Tanzania embassies were watched by Al Queda for years because the local Al Queda had very few targets in their region and they had a tough time convincing Al Queda that hitting embassies in Africa, filled primarily with Africans was worth it. Eventually there was so much detail and Al Queda hadn't hit a target in three years, and it looked cheap and flashy so they agreed.
Looking at Al Queda as primarily funding rather than planning may be incorrect, but it explains a lot of things.
#2
Al Qaeda doen't do anything any hostile foreign government doesn't do, and it is extremely likely they are also funded by a hostile foreign gvoernment.
#5
Itâs an interesting theory, yank. True or not, it certainly seems a viable option. Put some seed money out there and fund the upstarts that show the most promise. It would explain the enthusiasm, original (wacky) ideas, limited budgets and total incompetence weâve seen in the upstarts.
The hookâ¦small fry are delighted with the seed capital and the promise of glory; big bonuses for agents who manage successful ventures. Just like the movie (or any other) business
Posted by: B ||
08/05/2004 12:32 Comments ||
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#6
badanov -- Why does it have to be a single government?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/05/2004 13:06 Comments ||
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badanov -- Why does it have to be a single government?
Doesn't have to be, I guess. But the Iranians are up as the next domino to fall with their growing nuclear threat and the rather obvious hostile rhetoric in recent months.
If you have other notions on whom may be funding these f*ckers, I'd like to hear them.
#8
C'mon Badanov, what about the Saudi princes? At least some of them have been funding AQ for years. There's been speculation here that their local terrorists are proxies for family in-fighting over the throne and the future direction of Saudi society.
#10
C'mon Badanov, what about the Saudi princes? At least some of them have been funding AQ for years. There's been speculation here that their local terrorists are proxies for family in-fighting over the throne and the future direction of Saudi society
I was speaking primarily of governmental funding. Individuals probably do send money to Al Qaeda, but hostile foreign governments can provide the alpha and omega of everything terrorists need to kill lots of Westerners: money, intel, journalism, epsionage, etc. That's a pretty tall order ex-shepards with their pockets stuffed full of petrodollars can't hope to accomplish. But governments can.
I don't mean to excuse crappy behavior from any quarter with my remarks. I just wanted to state my belief that Iran has been the geographical center of terrorism since 1979, and it is time to deal with this very real threat.
Intelligence shows al Qaeda has plans to blow up shipping in a bid to disrupt world trade, Britain's top Naval officer has said in an interview. The Royal Navy's First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Sir Alan West, said that Western governments had intelligence that terrorists view shipping as an attractive target and have plans to destroy ships. "We have got an underlying level of intelligence which shows there is a threat," West told Lloyd's List maritime newspaper.
West warned that terrorism could potentially cripple global trade and have grave knock-on effects on developed economies. "What we've noticed is that al Qaeda and other organizations have an awareness about maritime trade," he said. "They've realized how important it is for world trade in general and they understand that significance."
Lloyd's list commented that the terrorist threat to merchant shipping is nothing new for the maritime industry --illustrated in 2002 by the attack on the French tanker Limburg off the coast of Yemen. But such a stark warning from such a senior figure in the British military establishment was likely to add further impetus to global efforts to increase security awareness at sea, Lloyds List said. "We've seen other plans from intelligence of attacks on merchant shipping," West said. "I can't give you detail on any of that, clearly, but we are aware that they have plans and they've looked at this."
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 9:18:05 AM ||
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#1
Stock the galleys with bacon for breakfast, pork sausages for lunch, and pork chops for supper. No beards, no prayer mats. That should keep the crew jihad free.
#2
What the article does not mention is how some pirates have already taken over a ship only to then pilot it for several hours as "practice." Lucky, the threat is not so much from within the ships but without. Pirate activity in the region has been soaring in recent years, as with terrorist activity. This is the central issue, not infiltration of the boat crews themselves.
This is a serious threat and most definitely needs to be addressed. Indonesia and Malaysia had better come up with some strong solutions instead of their incessant dithering about terrorism. Both countries have expressed official resentment at American suggestions for a US response force being put in place.
It is estimated that 50,000 ships carrying 30% of world trade and 80% of Japan's oil transit this critical passage every year. Any obstruction of it would disrupt the entire Asian economy. A first step would be to harden all ship's pilot houses. Armed escorts probably are required as well. A "deadman's switch" sort of broadcast system would be useful as well. Akin to the "everything's all right" signal transmitted to nuclear submarines during patrols, each ship should have a special transmitter that must be code keyed by biometric interlocked data at periodic intervals while a vessel is underway.
#3
Once the election is over & Bush heads into his 2nd term, Iran, the center of global terrorism (at least the Shi'ite branch) can be broght to the front burner of rouge states which must be removed. In doing so, Syria & Lebanon both of which recieve 'assistance' from Iran's vast oil wealth, will be on their own and easy to deal with.
In terms of terrorism on the high seas, once again our own security methods must be improved world-wide on every ship heading into or heading out from U.S. waters.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
08/05/2004 18:31 Comments ||
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Intelligence shows al Qaeda has plans to target merchant shipping in a bid to disrupt world trade, Britain's top Navy officer said in an interview published on Thursday. "We have got an underlying level of intelligence which shows there is a threat," the Royal Navy's First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Sir Alan West, was quoted as saying by Lloyd's List maritime newspaper. The Defense Ministry confirmed West had given the interview in which he reiterated previous warnings about the threat of an attack on the world's commercial fleets
Posted by: Lux ||
08/05/2004 8:07:27 AM ||
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Followers of rebel cleric Moqtada al-Sadr have shot down a U.S. helicopter in the Iraqi city of Najaf and two have been killed by British troops in Basra in clashes that threaten to reignite a Shi'ite uprising. The fighting in Najaf was the heaviest in the city since a rebellion by Sadr's followers in April and May. The city is home to the holiest shrines in Shi'ite Islam, and most Iraqi Shi'ites react with outrage when clashes erupt near the sacred sites. The U.S. military said on Thursday it estimated seven of Sadr's fighters were killed in Najaf, and British forces said they killed two militiamen in Basra after an attack by Sadr's men. "Coalition forces were attacked with small arms fire and returned fire, killing two enemy fighters," a British military spokeswoman said, adding that no British soldiers were wounded.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
08/05/2004 7:06:33 PM ||
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#1
The city is home to the holiest shrines in Shiâite Islam, and most Iraqi Shiâites react with outrage when clashes erupt near the sacred sites.
So, why haven't the Shi'ites gone after Sadr for causing so many "clashes" near their precious shrines? Oh, I see, it's only when infidels go after murderous insurgents that it becomes a problem. Thugs who kill Iraqis by the score in the name of "resisting the oppressor" get a pass.
Tell you what, guys. If you don't have much of a problem with one of your own desecrating your stinking shrines, pretty soon those who are getting shot up by these killers will cease to have any compunctions either. Keep it up and you'll be worshiping in rubble, kind of like back in the good old days of Saddam.
EFL
UNITED NATIONS — Secretary-General Annan believes it will take about 17 international troops to protect one U.N. worker. However, there are no volunteers for the job. Surprise, surprise.
At a luncheon with the 15 ambassadors of the Security Council yesterday, Mr.Annan, according to participants at the lunch, said the U.N. would need more than 5,000 troops to protect an estimated staff of 300, if it ever decides to return to Iraq. Guess they're not coming back then. So sad.
The number of troops cited by Mr. Annan sounded high even to some members of the secretary-general's team, who said that they had not heard that figure in previous assessments on the U.N. security need in Iraq. Saudi Arabia's idea for an Islamic force fizzled yesterday as Iraq's president, Ghazi al-Yawer, the Arab League, and Mr. Annan raised doubts about the practicalities of deploying such a force. Also, several key Arab and Muslim states, including Egypt, Pakistan, and Malaysia, explicitly declared they would not send any troops to Iraq. This leaves the U.N. no choice but to rely, at least for now,on the existing coalition in Iraq, with the 138,000 American troops at its core. Kofi, you really think we're gonna divert 5,000 troops just to cover your sorry ass?
American envoy John Danforth told The New York Sun the American-led coalition would do the job "on an interim basis." "But our view is that this really is international responsibility." "The world needs a reminder of how effective blue helmets are, ASAP."
At the U.N., the collapse of the Saudi option was met with a shrug. "If the Saudi idea is comes off, terrific," the British ambassador, Emyr Jones Parry, told the Sun. "If it doesn't, who else is going to provide a presence?" Indicating it was time to move on, he said there are negotiations with "a number of countries. Some have shown more interest than others." Get to work, Kofi.
#1
get real - if the UN doesnt come in, than everything that goes wrong politically is going to be blamed on that fact - keeping them out isnt much of an option - not that they can do major harm, but as the poster says, diverting 5,000 troops isnt an option either. Hell, diverting the more realistic figure of 1000 troops isnt good. Thats why we still need some 3rd world, even muslim troops. As Ive said before.
#2
Maybe Kofi should ask Ghana to send it's 5000 man army. The numbers match perfectly and it covers LH's 3d world option. Plus, they'd be doing their favorite son a favor.
#5
Have you thought this through, Kofi?
This'll make it tough to get those dinner reservations at the five star restaurants. "Dinner for four" now becomes "dinner for sixty-eight". Even if you can get a reservation, try hiding that in an expense report.
Let's rethink, Kofi. For the good of the Organization.
#7
that really is the best one yet 'Maybe Kofi should ask Ghana to send it's 5000 man army'. I'd love to be able to say that to kofi and see what his reaction is - where the fuck is that place anyway and why the fuck have we got a guy incharge of the world from a place i and probaly 99% of the public in the world didn't know and didn't care existed - hey great plan guys lets invade ghana for a laugh. Create a small force say 300 men and land them in ghana ,don't have them hurt anyone but i wonder if the UN route would be taken against them or would Kofi watch and frown again as he always has in the past when this time its his people in grave danger. make a good poll really 'How would Kofi react if Ghuna was invaded?'.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
08/05/2004 15:53 Comments ||
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#8
Shouldn't the UN workers be well protected in their ivory towers?
#10
i and probaly 99% of the public in the world didn't know and didn't care existed
its good to know Brits are just as ignorant of geography as Americans. Perhaps you remember it as the Gold Coast, long part of the Empire on which the Sun never Set?
For Yanks, its the country that Shirley Temple Black was embassador to. Its also a major source of chocolate.
Ive known where it was since I was a teenager - but then I like geography.
#12
At a luncheon with the 15 ambassadors of the Security Council yesterday, Mr.Annan, according to participants at the lunch, said the U.N. would need more than 5,000 troops to protect an estimated staff of 300, if it ever decides to return to Iraq.
It is always over lunch, isn't it? Bunch of piehole stuffers and not much else of substance. Hire Michael Moore to show you how it is done. Blechchchchch!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/05/2004 18:43 Comments ||
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#13
I don't believe the SS LAH was initially that big...this guy must have some ego...
#14
4000 to 5000 is a reasonable number - considering logistics and support for the actual security forces, and the fact that they need to secure their supply lines in some pretty bad parts of indian country (to support voting etc).
Charlie Daniels, the man who wrote and sang "This Ain't No Rag, It's a Flag," is drawing heat from Arab-Americans who say it refers to a derogatory term used against them. Daniels, 67, is scheduled to perform Saturday in Dearborn, the center of southeastern Michigan's 300,000-member Arab-American community. After the Sept. 11 terror attacks, Daniels wrote and recorded the song, which became a country hit. It begins:
"This ain't no rag, it's a flag and we don't wear it on our heads. It's a symbol of the land where the good guys live. Are you listening to what I said?"
On Saturday, the Charlie Daniels Band will perform at the city-sponsored Homecoming Festival. "Someone who is trying to get popular through bigotry, bias and hatred should not be welcome, especially in a city like Dearborn with its rich diversity," Imad Hamad, regional director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, told the Detroit Free Press. City spokeswoman Mary Laundroche said no formal complaints have been received about the performance and the show will go on. "Ragheads" is a slur used against Arabs, Muslims and others who wear turbans or cover their heads.
Really? "Kufr" is a slur used by Arabs, Muslims and other who wear turbans or cover their heads.
Daniels says the song is not directed at Arabs and Muslims in general, just at turbaned terrorists like Osama bin Laden. "It's not anti-Arab or anti-anything," he said Wednesday by phone from Tennessee, where he lives. "The only thing it's 'anti' is the people who bombed us on 9/11. I have people who say you're putting down people who wear turbans. I'm not. There are good Arabs and bad Arabs, good Greeks and bad Greeks, good people and bad people in any race. I'm not a racist person. I came up during the old Jim Crow days. I know what racism is."
Don't worry, Charlie, all the proper commentators in the MSM will have you convicted and boiled in oil by nightfall.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2004 11:44:12 AM ||
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#1
And I suppose "Devil Went Down to Georgia" makes fun of Southern Baptists . . .
Fun song, that. You stay away from ol' Daniels, you turbaned idiots!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
08/05/2004 12:22 Comments ||
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#2
I live in Dearborn and I can tell you that the only arabs at the Homecoming concerts are young men hitting on anything blonde with boobs. Most of the arab community doesn't attend non-arab concerts anyway.
Posted by: Formerly Dan ||
08/05/2004 12:25 Comments ||
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#3
Doesn't surprise me. You don't think they'd actually attend those concerts, do you, Dan? That would expose them to infidels and might risk lifting their ignorance. They much prefer to seethe in safety. Keeps them from doing something constructive like maybe holding a concert of their own.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
08/05/2004 12:28 Comments ||
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#4
I bet Charlie could give a F*&K what these thin-skinned asshats thinks
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/05/2004 12:37 Comments ||
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#5
Charlie, why aren't you fighting for "regime change" like all us other has beens?
Repent, Charlie! Repent!
Posted by: Bruce ||
08/05/2004 12:44 Comments ||
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#7
"especially in a city like Dearborn with its rich diversity,"
Diversity my *ss. How long will it be before Dearborn is 100% Muslim with just a few token dhimmis just for appearances? Oh wait! Wouldn't that be now??? Practically is anyway.
#8
I grew up about 15 min's away from Dearborn. Dan's got it right, won't be too many arabs at a Charlie Daniels concert unless they're trying to pick up blonde chicks they can't bring home to mommy.
#11
So what are you saying, Lh?
That Charlie shouldn't do his show out of sensitivity to those Iraqis who like us?
And how far away is Hammantrack (or whatever), where the Mooslim prayer call has been imposed on the "infidels?"
How much are we going to accomadate this culture that is so foreign to our American one, no matter how supportive they are of our "policies?"
#12
I certainly think Charlie should do whats in his heart, as self-expression is SO important.
I wouldnt use an ethnic or religious slur against anyone (and yes, I know liberals who willing to use slurs against fundamentalist Christians - I wouldnt do that either) I wouldnt accomodate Arabs any more than Id accomodate Italians, Germans, Japanese, Irish, Blacks, Chinese, Indians, or anyone else. I fail to see whats so controversial, or even so liberal about that. Need I remind you that in 2000 the Bush Cheney campaign appealed strongly to the arab-American citizens of Greater Detroit?
President Bush is expected to speak in Dearborn on Monday, state Republicans said.
White House spokesman Scott Stanzel declined to confirm the visit, which also was reported by the Associated Press. The wire service said Bush would discuss the future of Iraq with Iraqi-Americans and other Metro Detroiters.
Casey Mahbuba, the president of the Iraqi American Chamber of Commerce, said he wants to hear about Bush's plans for rebuilding Iraq.
"I hope we hear a clear message about how long it will take to rebuild Iraq and how much time we need to get to elections for a government," said Mahbuba, 32, who came to Dearborn in 1992 from Iraq. "We also want to know how long he thinks the United States will have to stay in Iraq."
Bush's visit follows one to Dearborn on Feb. 23 by U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, one of the leading planners of the war. Wolfowitz met with Iraqi Shiites in Dearborn, who told him of the persecution they suffered under then-President Saddam Hussein.
#14
October 2000
DEARBORN, Mich. (AP) â An influential organization of Arab-American political leaders from the Detroit area gave a unanimous endorsement to Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush on Sunday.
Members of the Arab-American Political Action Committee said their support for the Texas governor was based mainly on political preference.
Many told the Detroit Free Press in a story for Monday editions that Bush has reached out for Arab-Americans' support, while Democratic rival Al Gore has not. But a few also said they were uneasy with Gore's Orthodox Jewish vice presidential candidate, Connecticut Sen. Joseph Lieberman.
Bush is âsomeone who listens, who's flexible on Middle Eastern issues,â said committee member Osama Siblani, publisher of the Arab American News in Dearborn. âLieberman's culture and religion are embedded. Lieberman is already committed in his soul to Israel.â
Other committee members played down Lieberman's ethnicity and faith.
âWe support good Jewish candidates,â said Azzam Elder, an assistant Wayne County prosecutor. The group has supported Democratic Sen. Carl Levin, âand he's Jewish,â Elder said. âWe go by their policies.â
The committee is an influential political force among the nearly 300,000 Arab-Americans living in the Detroit metropolitan area
Bush is locked in a virtual dead heat with Gore in Michigan with less than a month before the election.
Lieberman said Friday that he didn't think his presence on the Democratic ticket would hurt Gore's effort to attract Arab-American votes.
âI'm an American, just like they're Americans. The first interest we have ... is the interest of our country,â he said
#15
The Gore-Lieberman quote was from a time, of course, before 9/11.
And is our enemy IslamoFascism or not?
Charlie Daniels is asking what the Arab-American quoted said,
Are you more loyal to America or to Islam?
Clearly, there are different kinds of Mooslims in the Detroit area.
The question of the day is whether or not the radical ones can inflame or radicalize the more moderate ones.
The answer to that is blowing in the wind.
Charlie's merely trying to "smoke them out of their holes."
And if Linda Ronstandt and Don Henley can push Mikey Moore and irrationally bash President Bush at their concerts, then Charlie Daniels can use his 1st Amendment rights and single out Mooslims.
#16
The Gore-Lieberman quote was from a time, of course, before 9/11.
Which is why i mentioned support for our policies. Why bash also those arabs who support our policies. OTOH if its a deepseated religious-cultural thing that predated 9/11, surely?
And is our enemy IslamoFascism or not?
Once again, Islamofascism does not equal Islam.
Charlie Daniels is asking what the Arab-American quoted said,
Are you more loyal to America or to Islam?
Clearly, there are different kinds of Mooslims in the Detroit area.
The question of the day is whether or not the radical ones can inflame or radicalize the more moderate ones.
Its also whether calling Muslims Mooslims and Ragheads will inflame or radicalize the more moderate muslims. "Hath not a muslim eyes...."
The answer to that is blowing in the wind.
Charlie's merely trying to "smoke them out of their holes."
And if Linda Ronstandt and Don Henley can push Mikey Moore and irrationally bash President Bush at their concerts, then Charlie Daniels can use his 1st Amendment rights and single out Mooslims.
Yup, i may hate what you have to say but ill defend with my life your right to say it. But that allows me to contest what you say, or even despise it. I find Michael Moore despicable, and those who defend him foolish at best. I dont see why holding the same opinion wrt to Charlie Daniels makes me an enemy of the 1st amendment.
#17
These Mooslims are, as usual, trying to use the tools of Liberalism to harm us.
Charlie wrote this song--and may I point out that it does not use the term "ragheads"--and it's been a hit.
Islamofascists are the enemy.
Country music rallies people for America and defense of our country and is not known for singing the praises of a "multiculti" utopia.
If people don't like it, they shouldn't buy a ticket to his concert!
(Whereas Henley and his crowd are saying that Bush is the enemy and making statements perilously close to treason.)
The day is coming when the rest of us are going to have to decide if it's safe to have practicing Mooslims in our country.
That's just the way it is.
#18
Charlie wrote this song--and may I point out that it does not use the term "ragheads"--and it's been a hit.
LH - fahrenheit 911 is also a hit. Its still despicable.
Islamofascists are the enemy.
LH - again - not all muslims are islamofascists. Not all muslims are islamists. Whether all islamists are islamofascists is a matter of dispute, though I lean that they are.
Country music rallies people for America and defense of our country and is not known for singing the praises of a "multiculti" utopia.
LH - mainly its known for singing about personal things. While there are a few well known patriotic country songs, its performers are by no means identical in their politics, and included quite a few who are rather more liberal than I am, IIUC.
If people don't like it, they shouldn't buy a ticket to his concert!
LH Perhaps you didnt notice that he is singing at a city sponsored festival.
(Whereas Henley and his crowd are saying that Bush is the enemy and making statements perilously close to treason.)
LH - if and when Kerry is elected will you consider statements that Kerry is the enemy to be perilously close to treason?
The day is coming when the rest of us are going to have to decide if it's safe to have practicing Mooslims in our country.
LH - res ipso loquitur.
That's just the way it is.
LH - thats your opinion. Others differ, and will judge Mr. Daniels accordingly.
#19
Here's what Charlie said in reply to the Arab outrage:
"It's not anti-Arab or anti-anything," he said Wednesday by phone from Tennessee, where he lives. "The only thing it's 'anti' is the people who bombed us on 9/11. I have people who say you're putting down people who wear turbans. I'm not."
"There are good Arabs and bad Arabs, good Greeks and bad Greeks, good people and bad people in any race," Daniels said. "I'm not a racist person. I came up during the old Jim Crow days. I know what racism is."
The minute that we separate out identifying the enemy as IslamoNazis from "racism" (which is a bogus charge, BTW) is the day we'll really start winning the war.
And this goes for profiling on airplanes as well as patriotic songs.
And Charlie can stop about radical Muslims when the media in Middle Eastern countries stop their anti-Semitic attacks, blaming everything on Jews and saying that the Holocaust is a lie.
#20
If hes not attacking folks who wear turbans, why refer to a turban as a rag?? Suppose someone referred to a head covering such as Jews and the Pope wear as a beanie? In context of contrasting a beanie with the flag? would not Jews and Catholics have the right to be offended?
Radical muslims wear turbans. So do some muslims who are on our side. So do Sikhs, as a matter of fact (including the Sikh who was murdered shortly after 9/11) Im glad Charlie aint a racist. Or evena bigot against religions. But if you cant understand why people might find the song offensive, and why they would have a problem with it being sung at a city sponsored festival, you need to spend some more time trying to put yourself in others peoples shoes (as yes, so should muslims, even those moderate muslims who support the USA but are unfair to India or Israel)
#21
Charlie isn't referring to "ragheads," but anyone who treats the flag in a disrespectful way.
You're as a touchy as a Hamas-supporting imam with an ACLU lawyer!
#22
So its the folks who wear US flag bandannas that he has a problem with?? Most of whom seem to be quite patriotic, if ignorant of traditional flag ettiquette?? If you believe that Ive got a bridge to sell you.
Cmon this aint a rag, you dont wear it on your head - who the hell wears rags on their heads?? Folks who DO wear the US flag would logically be told the flag isnt a HAT or a BANDANNA, or whatever, not that its not a rag. The only people who are SAID to wear rags on their heads are the so-called ragheads.
Which is why he referred in his quote to 9/11. AFAIK no one who was implicated in those terrorist acts wore a US flag bandanna at any time. If you have info to the contrary, let me know.
#23
Liberalhawk , get a grip!
If I didn't know you were Jewish, I would swear you were an Arab!
(And no-one's targeting anyone who wears beanies! Not even Beanie and Cecil or the freshmen at my university who used to have to wear beanies!)
Our enemy is radical Islam and that's all Charlie is saying!
To pretend that "we're all friends now" when 3,000 Americans were slaughtered on 9/11 by IslamoNazis and we're now at war in the Middle East is crazy!
#24
that you would charecterize me as an arab, or any other ethnicity based on my assertions that a certain song may be offensive is really quite striking.
Were all friends now - who again. I HAVE muslim friends thank you very much. We ARE at war with Islamofascists in the middle east - and once again, our soldiers in the war (not just Iraq, but the whole GWOT) are dwarfed in number by the muslims fighting at our side. From the cities of Pakistan where Pakistani forces have just made what may prove to be the most important arrests yet in the WOT, to Afghanistan where Afghans fight side by side with us, to Iran where millions await their turn at freedom, to Iraq where Iraqi forces in Mosul have finally begun to fight without assistance from our ground troops, to Gaza where even some of the beknighted Pals are taking up arms against Arafat, to Algeria where the army and people fight a long war against some of the most brutal Islamists, to the Sahel where our special forces work quietly beside muslim armies at war with the Salafists, this is a global Muslim CIVIL WAR, and if we dont recognize that, we wont win this. If we blame all muslims for 9/11 we wont win this. If we "diss" muslim religion and culture (as opposed to Wahabi religion and culture) we wont win this.
#26
I like your points in #24 LH. We have to encourage Muslims to alienate the Islamists among them and work to reform the religion. We don't need to piss them all off. Unfortunately, the mouthpieces for Muslims tend to play the victim card at every opportunity. This is also an Arab thing. Hard to get by that sometimes. Makes you want to say "Tough Sh*t, stop your whining", even if the content may be somewhat off color. They need to ease up too.
Posted by: remote man ||
08/05/2004 18:48 Comments ||
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#27
Liberalhawk, noone is blaming all Muslims--not me and not Charlie in his song!
Can you read? One wonders.
You are too busy having a hernia over whether your Muslim "brothers" sensitivities are respected.
remote man makes THE point--the IslamoNazi mouthpieces play the victim as long as they can.
Many of these PC Arab whiners are the same guys going off to jail for supporting Islamist terrorism, whining right up to the cell doors that they're "innocent."
Our enemies aren't Jews, Christians or Swedes--they're jihadi Muslims from Middle Eastern countries.
The Muslims themselves must decide if they're going to reform their religion and isolate the ones who make war against America.
But if they can't do that in time, the rest of us who like Charlie and his song will have to do it for them.
#29
#20If hes not attacking folks who wear turbans, why refer to a turban as a rag?? Suppose someone referred to a head covering such as Jews and the Pope wear as a beanie? In context of contrasting a beanie with the flag? would not Jews and Catholics have the right to be offended?
Liberalhawk, when your above observation is combined with city sponsorship for the concert, your position becomes quite valid. Daniels himself willingly connects his use of the word "rag" to (albeit) terrorists who wear turbans.
However much I detest PC mentality, I hate discrimination even more. Using tax dollars to broadcast such a thinly veiled message of exclusion is unwise at least and incompletely representative of our Nation's constitution. When one considers that Neo Nazi politics fall under the aegis of free speech, Daniels' lyrics most certainly do as well. Your point of publicly financing such a message remains nonetheless.
I am obliged to wonder how many people actually know one of the reasons a turban is worn? It goes beyond issues of hygine, comfort or containment of hair length. The Sikh faith wears turbans so that when God looks down upon men they will all appear alike. Someone more learned in Arabic culture will have to substantiate whether this appies to Islamic prescriptions too.
The idea of equality in the eyes of God is a pretty advanced theological concept and represents the seed for equality in the eyes of the law, a most important principal. Even in its milder forms, any quarter given to hate speech can serve to encourage hate crimes like the cold blooded murder of Balbir Singh Sodhi. While it is obvious that Daniels' would not approve of Sodhi's murder, wearing a turban that day proved just as fatal as wearing a yarmulka in Germany, some sixty years ago. We need none of this madness.
Again, Daniels' song is entirely covered by free speech. His selection to perform it at public expense is another matter entirely.
#30
He's not talking to the Mooslims, you morons!
He doesn't like the abuse of the flag, including wearing it as a bandana.
I just heard Charlie on Michael Savage and he repeated the remarks I quoted above.
#31
I agree with Jen on this. Charlie Daniels wrote the song right after 9/11 and it was announcing to AQ specifically that America was coming to hunt them-the Muslim terrorists specifically -down. He uses the flag and the eagle in the song as symbols of the USA. He does not use the word raghead at all. He is saying basically that the flag is no rag. It is the symbol of our great nation. I think it would do everyone alot of good to read the lyrics of Charlie Daniels' song. If anyone sees racial slurs in it it, they have super sensory powers that goes beyond seeing what's written in black and white. This Arab out rage is more of the hot air victim posturing. http://www.charliedaniels.com/lyrics/flag.html
"This Ain't No Rag It's A Flag" lyrics
Secondly, the most tax supported concert I heard about on Drudge last Sunday where the entertainer used slurs and verbal bashing on stage took place in an LA County facility, the entertainer was Joan Baez, and the victim for real, not fake hot air was GWB.
Posted by: rex ||
08/05/2004 23:58 Comments ||
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The notorious 'Chechen trace' has been discovered by leaders of Ossetian armed formations among the Georgian military. The head of one of the structures of South Ossetian regime in Tskhinvali, someone named Robert Guliyev stated that Georgia allegedly uses Chechen mercenaries in the zone of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict. This report came from Moscow-based RIA-Novosti news agency (RIAN).
«Today the police has reliable information that persons hired by the Georgian side to solve the Georgian-Ossetian conflict by military force were spotted in the republic of South Ossetia. There are confirmations that mercenaries from among the Kistinians, who are ethnic Chechens living in the Pankisi Gorge, are now on the territory of the republic», Guliyev said.
Kavkaz Center news and information agency has addressed to Chief of External Subcommittee of Informational Council (part of State Defense Council Majlis al-Shura of Chechen Republic of Ichkeria) Movladi Udugov with the request to comment on the statement made by South Ossetian regime.
«This is a pretty strange statement. It is strange not in the sense that the leaders in Tskhinvali discovered the 'Chechen trace' (these days it's being discovered all over), but in the sense that they ranked Kistinians among the mercenaries».
«I don't know whether there are Kistinians among the Georgian servicemen, but even if there are, it is quite normal and natural. Kistinians are citizens of Georgia and they can surely be drafted into their country's armed forces».
«This is why I did not quite understand why Tskhinvali all of a sudden decided to stress on Kistinians. If they wanted to use the so-called 'Chechen factor' for propagandistic purposes, they should have probably pointed at citizens of Chechnya and not Georgia».
«Most likely, whoever making up and scribbling that story about the 'Chechen trace' got confused and came up with this kind of nonsense. But that's the matter of professionalism of those whoever makes that disinformation out there».
«What's more, if right now Georgian authorities show a couple of Kistinian soldiers on TV and confirm, like, --'Yes, there are Kistinians, citizens of Georgia, in our armed forces, here they areâŠ' — then the Tskhinvali regime and its Russian advisers will end up in even more stupid situation. After that any attempt that Moscow and Tskhinvali will be making to continue to use the 'Chechen factor' in its propaganda will be looking outright false and not seriously», Mr. Udugov commented on the statement made by the South Ossetian side.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/05/2004 10:06:30 AM ||
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"Grand PoobahImperial WizardMentat Master of AssassinsPapa Doc Chief of External Subcommittee of Informational Council (part of State Defense Council Majlis al-Shura of Chechen Republic of Ichkeria)"
It just rolls off the tongue, I tell ya.
Hey Dan, what are some good Caucasus blogs? I still check The Argus regularly, but a lot of others have gone silent in the last few months (Living with Caucasians, Bloggin the Stans, the Blogmenbashi). Any other suggestions?
Posted by: Another Dan ||
08/05/2004 19:23 Comments ||
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#2
Even Josef Visarionivitch himself couldn't "tame" these people...
A Danish army officer was charged Thursday with four counts of negligence for allegedly denying food and water to detainees in Iraq, forcing them to sit in "painful positions" and verbally humiliating them. The charges against Capt. Annemette Hommel, 37, stem from alleged incidents between March and June during her tour of duty at a Danish military camp in southern Iraq. Hommel, an intelligence officer, and Col. Henrik Flach, the head of Denmark's 496-soldier deployment in Iraq, were ordered home this week because of the allegations.
The accusations were first reported Monday by the Ekstra Badet newspaper and confirmed by the government.
Military prosecutor Peter Otken said detainees being questioned by Hommel were "forced to sit in stressing and eventually painful positions and maintained with force to stay in these positions." The detainees also were verbally humiliated and denied food and water. Military prosecutors said they found four separate instances of Hommel mistreating detainees. But Otken said the abuse was not physical. "There are no suspicions that they were beaten or kicked," Otken said.
Hommel said the charges against her were false. "I have absolutely not done any of this," she told The Associated Press. "This is an untrue claim." Hommel said tensions with the camp's Palestinian civilian translators were to blame.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere.
Interviewing Iraqi insurgents "has not been a chat session," she said. "These were serious conversations about serious issues." Hommel admitted denying water to a detainee and forcing him to sit on the floor during a one-hour interview, but she said her actions were well within the confines of the Geneva Conventions protecting prisoners of war. "I don't feel that my personal integrity has let me down. I have respected all the existing rules," she said.
Denmark's soldiers serve in Basra and nearby Qurnah, 250 miles southeast of Baghdad, and are under British command. Besides Flach, the commanding officers of the contingent's military police, intelligence and legal teams were all dismissed Tuesday as the probe into the alleged mistreatment of detainees widened. Defense Minister Soeren Gade cited the officers' "lack of judgment" as a reason for their dismissal.
On June 9, Hommel and three other officers questioned a member of the militia loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr suspected of planning to ambush Danish soldiers, she said. She did not identify the suspect, but said he earlier had been detained by soldiers for putting up illegal roadblocks in the area. "He was bold as brass and did his best to dodge in every way my questions and started to ask for water," Hommel said, adding that she refused to give it to him during the one-hour interrogation session. "There was no serious physical need for water. It was an obstruction mechanism."
Only a one-hour session? Screw him.
The camp's translators, all Palestinian-born civilians, misinterpreted her reasoning and complained about the treatment to Flach in a letter, she said.
No bias there, I'm sure.
"It becomes a problem when the (female) interpreter steps out of her role and insists that (the man) needs water," Hommel said. Hommel said she and other intelligence officers had "a stormy relationship" with the three interpreters, who are Danish citizens working for the military under civilian contracts. They have no prior military experience.
At least, in the Danish military
"Their education is insufficient and people who are sent out (to assignments), they don't understand, become confused and do not accept the military system," said Hommel, a trained linguist who speaks Russian and Polish fluently.
Tip-toeing around the fact they are freaking Palestinians! What the hell are they doing acting as translators?
Posted by: Steve ||
08/05/2004 9:23:45 AM ||
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Article: The camp's translators, all Palestinian-born civilians, misinterpreted her reasoning and complained about the treatment to Flach in a letter, she said.
This is what you get for employing Palestinians in sensitive positions. They are a security risk, and it is questionable whether they are accurately translating what the prisoners are saying, even if they want to talk. Better to train Danes to carry out these tasks.
#3
Truth was the perp was dressed in pink coveralls, forced to kneel, while standing behind him were three bible toting crusaders, a banner that reads Jesus Saves hung on the wall, a video camera in front recording the forced conversion.
#5
"Palestinian civilian translators?" Someone needs to answer for this. The only way this even makes the least bit of sense is if all interrogations conducted by these "Palestinian civilian translators" were 100% videotaped for subsequent verification. Otherwise, we might as well have let Iranians assist us with the questioning. How the hell does crap like this happen?
Several people have been killed after Nigerian police raided the headquarters of an Islamic sect, whose members exchanged their wives.
The wives think of it as swapping husbands...
Members of the Yan-Gwagwarmaya sect battled the police with guns and machetes before being overwhelmed, the police say. Residents of the remote north-western town of Birnin Kebbi complained after they tried to recruit local youths.
"Want some candy, little youth?"
"Hey, keep your hands off our youths!"
Five policemen, including an assistant commissioner, were seriously injured.
"They got Officer Friendly! Damn them!"
Should have given Officer Fife more than one bullet.
The group's leader, Sanusi Makera-Gandu was also badly hurt in the clashes.
"They got Fearless Leader! Damn them!"
The BBC's Elizabeth Blunt in the capital, Abuja, says this is the latest in a series of such incidents in Nigeria involving Muslim youths who set up their own communities and refused to accept conventional civil or religious authority.
"Hain't nobuddy tells us what to do!"
The authorities refuse to say exactly how many people were killed in the raid. The sect had incensed other local Muslim groups by calling their base the Kabah - after Islam's holiest site in the Saudi Arabian town of Mecca.
"Hey! Youse can't do dat!"
That'll get you wacked.
"Dey don't even have a big black rock to march around!"
They walked around the courtyard of their base as Muslims do on the pilgrimage to Mecca.
Interesting, an African islamic start-up splinter sect, one that doesn't bow down to Mecca. The Saudis will be furious, I like it.
Casualty figures are extremely sensitive in Nigeria - and are often played down for fear of inflaming tensions. In January, another Islamic sect calling itself the Taleban attacked police stations in north-eastern Nigeria.
Maybe we can arrange a African Islam vs Arab Islam steel-cage death match.
Already have one of those, it's called "Darfur".
I'll call for pizza...
Posted by: Steve ||
08/05/2004 8:31:41 AM ||
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Maybe we can arrange a African Islam vs Arab Islam steel-cage death match.
Let's go with a "Last Man Standing" match. We can address two issues with one event.
#2
No, no, no. Swapping is not allowed in the good book. Yaz supposed to go to the next village, kill all the men, take the women, and call it Jihad. Send your mullah to Saudi for some proper reeducation.
Posted by: ed ||
08/05/2004 9:19 Comments ||
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funniest comments i have seen yet on here. lmao
#13
How do they tell 'em apart covered by the Black (Saudi) or Powder-Blue (Afghani) schmocks over their entire bodies?
You stare at burqas all day, you develop an eye for detail.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/05/2004 16:16 Comments ||
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Lol! Good one, Dr Steve, heh. Reminds me of driving down what is called the Corniche which runs along the coast of the Persian Gulf in Al Khobar & Al Dammam - I was constantly passing cars of young Saudis driving very slowly... What were they doing you ask? Checking out the MBO's* who were having picnics with the family. Looked like a buncha black blobs to me, but hey, these guys were seriously scoping them out.
Agency reports say the abortive assassination attempt on a Mutahidda Majlis-e-Amal MNA, Maulana Shirani in Balochistan recently was actually the first such attempt by the hard-line Taliban elements to remove from the scene those Deobandi-Taliban clerics and leaders who are seen as relatively moderate.
Relatively moderate Deobandi-Taliban clerics beat their own wives...
Liberal Deobandi-Taliban clerics beat other men's wives...
The other element in this internal war has to do with the feeling among the hard-line Taliban elements that some components of the MMA have betrayed them and allowed the federal government a free hand to operate in South Waziristan despite controlling the provincial government in the NWFP.
The free hand isn't as free as they'd like...
The intelligence agencies have gleaned the information from the two suspects arrested on the charge of attacking Maulana Shirani. "The interrogation of these two people gave us the information on what is brewing among the Taliban," says an official. According to agency reports, the hard-line Taliban have prepared a list of the 'wanted' prominent clerics of Pakistan whom they plan to target in the coming days to teach them a 'lesson' for ditching them in their hour of need.
I suppose killing them does teach them a lesson...
EFL - a prety grim read. I don't think that Sadaam's Iraq was as happy a place as Michael Moore makes it out to have been.
"Entitled 'The Settlements and Villages of the Christian Assyrians in the Region of Kurdistan Iraq,' the document, which goes to 104 pages, is a shocking view of a previously mostly unknown campaign of terror against a tiny minority in Iraq." Joseph says 290 villages were named in the documentation with the word "destroyed" next to each one. "The document with 'Confidential For Internal Use Only' and subtitled 'The Contribution of the International Non-Governmental Organizations to the Islamization of Assyrian Villages' goes into great detail on the destruction of the indigenous people of the region," he writes.
The villages in question had been inhabited by Christians for centuries, while the Assyrian people have lived in the area since before the time of Christ. According to Joseph, the Kurdistan Regional Government worked together with Saddam in the cleansing operations. "Entry after entry reads 'demography forcibly changed,' 'destroyed,' 'disappeared,' 'gas holocaust,' 'intifada,'" he writes. "Entries read 'gas-Anfal,' meaning the villagers were gassed during the 'Anfal Campaign' by the Saddam government to destroy the area and 'Islamizize' and 'Arabize' it. "The 'gassing of the Kurds' extended to a much greater population of Assyrian Christians as well, although this has been previously completely hidden."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/05/2004 11:18:44 PM ||
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I'm sure the alphabet-soup networks will give this full coverage......
#9
trailing wife---mars flies in a klein bottle make a great nature gift for kids, like an antfarm, but more sophisticated.
Salhuddin kept angrily posting on a thread for over a week, hammering away on it, then he said farewell. I advised Fred that there were some whipping-a-dead-horse comments going on, so now the comments should freeze after a day or whatever time limit Fred set. Was amusing though, like klein bottles.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/05/2004 19:32 Comments ||
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This wouldn't have happened if there had been a fair resolution of the Palestinian problem!
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/05/2004 22:53 Comments ||
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I miss Salhuddin....but my aim is getting better
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/05/2004 23:09 Comments ||
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#12
If the server will quit breaking I'm going to fix that bug...
Posted by: Fred ||
08/05/2004 23:12 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
