October 13, 2004: Although the details are secret, American and Iraqi troops are on the offensive against Sunni Arab and terrorist gangs. Over a year of effort in building up an intelligence network among the population had paid off. Even in the Sunni Arab areas, many people are fed up with the lawlessness and violence created where the gangs operate. So information comes in about who is who and is doing what. This provides more, and higher quality, targets for raids. The ground units usually surround houses or compounds at night and arrest people, and seize weapons, bomb making equipment and documents, without a shot being fired. Some 30 areas have been identified as occupied and influenced by various gangs. The process of clearing out these areas have apparently been underway for two weeks. Not a lot of publicity for this effort, as keeping the opposition guessing is a powerful weapon.Â
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004
9:39:42 AM ||
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#2
There was a piece in yesterday's National Review Online talking about the increased use of Iraqi SWAT/Spec Ops troops in combination with the Marines 24th MEU south of Bagdhad. Seems like both the Iraqis and the Marines are doing a great job.
Posted by: remote man ||
10/13/2004 13:03
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#3
It must be disquieting to the various jihadi groups to see other groups just quietly disappear from the net. It builds a sense inexorably approaching doom.
#5
RWV, I suspect you are correct. Wretchard had a post about the use of network analysis software that we were using to figure out who should be a target. The pickups are all early morning so quick, shots aren't fired. As a result this will not conclude, it will just sputter out as the stooges from Iran and Syria are picked up faster and faster. Some day the last stooge will be sent in and it will die with a wimper. Or regime change in Tehran and Damascus.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 20:06
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#6
Two of the biggest things at work there we are not hearing in the news. 1)the vast majority of ordinary Iraqis are feed up of getting hit by these clowns and the way they are controlling areas, 2)the Iraqi army and cops are starting to really get their act together. The kind of pressure we are putting on the local sheiks with the local discontent is paying off intel wise. Also a little known fact is that one of the best Iraqi units happens to have a whole bunch of Persh Merga in it so when they show up locally the bad guys figure out real quick these guys are really good and they are carrying around a huge cultural chip on their shoulders. Adds new meaning to no quarter.
Once Iraq and the prime minister get on its feet early next year I think you will see Iran start to get real shakey. There is alot of discontent and the circle will have closed. Take a quick look at a map and you will notice that their neighbors are pretty chummy with us. Radio Free Iran and a little money in the right pockets and the mullahs will start to cut deals.
#8
Sorry, Spook, impatience gets the better of me sometimes. I do worry that there are potentially only 20 or so shopping days left for this latest offensive.
Certainly the MSM will do their best to bury any news of progress or achievements. So my q to you is, What's your PR strategy? Crucial element of the battle, methinks, given the urgency here.
#9
The PR strategy is that there is not much you can do when the MSM is in the tank with the enemy. But Bush did show last night that if he wins the election, he may be willing to take the MSM on. He definitely assaulted their credibility.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/14/2004 8:02
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POWERFUL officials and their profiteering friends in France had a reason to try to stop the United States from overthrowing Saddam Hussein: They were pocketing billions in payoffs through a United Nations oil-for-food front.
That's the import of the Duelfer report. These non-partisan investigators found documents 'giving economic favours to key French diplomats or individuals that have access to key French leaders', and also got Saddam's mouthpiece, Mr Tariq Aziz, to sing about their purpose: 'According to Mr Aziz, both parties understood that resale of the oil was to be reciprocated through efforts to lift UN sanctions, or through opposition to American initiatives within the Security Council.'
Mr Charles Duelfer's group put on the public record the name of Mr Charles Pasqua, France's former interior minister and now a senator. Mr Pasqua denied all to the BBC and fingered former associates: 'Maybe other former ministers are involved.'
Former French ambassador to the UN Jean-Bernard Merimee is listed as receiving vouchers for 11 million barrels of oil from Saddam, the proceeds from which would beat a diplomat's pay.
Another of President Jacques Chirac's friends receiving Saddam's UN largesse was Mr Patrick Maugein, 'whom the Iraqis considered a conduit to Mr Chirac', according to the report.
Mr Maugein, 58, whose links with Mr Chirac have been chronicled by French journalist Karl Laske, is chairman of Soco, an oil company active in Vietnam. He's down for 13 million barrels. French oil companies Total and Socap got about 200 million barrels.
A name that keeps coming up in my poking around is Mr Marc Rich, the American billionaire who was for many years a fugitive, until blessed with one of former US president Bill Clinton's midnight pardons. Mr Rich's company Trafigura, spun off from the Swiss-based Glencore, and its possible dealings with outfits like Mr Jean-Paul Cayre's Ibex have excited the interest of many of the sleuths I've spoken to. (This is BIG!!) Watch this story pick up steam as we enter the countdown to election day)
France's diplomats here are apoplectic, calling the unconfirmed Duelfer reports 'unacceptable'. They note, in high dudgeon, that US firms involved in the UN corrupt caper are not named by the US team and deride our excuse about 'privacy laws'. However, within 24 hours of the report's issuance, reporter Judith Miller and her colleagues had the names of the US companies involved - Chevron, Mobil, Texaco, Bay Oil and one Oscar Wyatt Jr of Houston, who may have profited by US$23 million (S$38 million) - on the front page of The New York Times.
The Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations has issued seven subpoenas and a dozen hard-to-ignore chairman's letters from Senator Norm Coleman to companies in the US, as well as to multinationals doing business here. I hear the committee has met no legal resistance so far. Mr Ben Pollner, head of Taurus Oil, active in Iraq all through the oil-for-food fiasco, stiffed Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau's men. (Mr Pollner tells me his dealings were legal, but he clammed up to investigators because he remembers Martha Stewart.)
Russian officials and oligarchs were able to rip off even more than France's predators. Politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky made out like a bandit when his party had some power; so did 'the office of the Russian president' and the Peace and Unity Party, both headed by the unmentionable Mr Vladimir Putin.
As the hares zoom by, Mr Paul Volcker, the UN investigative tortoise, tells his people to forget the French and Russians and to concentrate on UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan's right-hand man, Mr Benon Sevan, and Mr Annan's son's relationship with Cotecna, the UN's see-no-evil 'monitor'; The White House is wringing its hands because it needs the UN's blessing on the Iraqi election.
If I were a French reporter and wanted to lose my job at Mr Chirac's Le Figaro in a hurry, I would drop in at 24 Boulevard Princess Charlotte in Monaco and ask whether Mr Maugein, Rui de Souza or Mario Contini have dropped by to see if Toro Energy and the African Middle East Petroleum company are still there. If that's a blind alley, try the casino. lololol WOW just the tip of the ice berg!
If there was any doubt to the real reasoning behind France, German and Russia blockage of removing their good friend Saddam, from petrol-power in Iraq, stay tune there is MUCH more! Where are the liberal Dems on this issue? Helloooooooooo?
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
8:30:39 PM ||
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#1
Those stupid Americans have no idea how much money we made lolol)
Who is laughing now ?
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004 20:38
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#3
Mr Annanâs sonâs relationship with Cotecna, the UNâs see-no-evil âmonitorâ
Kofi Jr left his Contecna job 13 months before Contecna won the UN's contract to monitor the food-for-oil program. Cotecna won the contract by submitting the lowest bid.
No wrongdoing by Cotecna or Kofi Jr (or Kofi Sr) has been proved or even detailed. The insinuations about these relationships are just a smear.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/13/2004 21:42
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#4
Boris is an anti-American Serb who ought to be deported immediately to Zagreb--and Mr Anti-Censorship thinks he should be allowed to shit on others' private property. However, he has provided incalculable laughter to Rantburgers with his simpleminded "theories."
#5
To 'Cromorong Chomble7321' otherwise known as The Spin Schmuck.
The truth hurts concerning the French oil and cash, but more incredible revolations concerning the phoney coverup reasons why Jacques Chirac & Dominique de Villepin refused to assist in the overthrown of Saddam & his Ba'athist goons. The reason was $$$$$$$$$... sack fulls!
Let us continue opening this can of Frogs.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004 22:14
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#6
IIRC, Steven DenBeste had this possibility of bribes nailed. He was looking at why France was so adamant in their threat and use of their UNSC veto for the resolution. Steven looked at all the possibilities with his logic and things pointed to France and Co on the take.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2004 22:43
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#7
Turtle Bayâs Carnival of Corruption
A spokesman in Kofi Annan's office has now offered in Kojo's defense that Kojo was no longer in the pay of Cotecna on the day the company won the U.N. contract. But the timing was close: Kojo had resigned from a consulting job for Cotecna earlier that same month. According to Annan's spokesman, Kojo held a staff job at Cotecna in a junior position from December 1995 through February 1998. Just two months later, Kojo reappeared on Cotecna's payroll as a consultant, via a firm called Sutton Investments, from April 1998 to December 1998, resigning from that consultancy just before Cotecna clinched the U.N. contract on December 31, 1998.
It might all be mere coincidence. Kojo's recent statements, relayed to me last Friday by Kofi Annan's U.N. office, convey that Kojo's consulting work for Cotecna was limited to projects in Nigeria and Ghana, unrelated to Oil-for-Food. But given the U.N.'s tendency to take several months to process contracts, and considering that the U.N. had to review several competing bids, the dates here suggest that Kojo resigned from Cotecna's staff only to return as a consultant during precisely the period in which Cotecna would most likely have been assembling and submitting its bid for the U.N. job, and the U.N. Secretariat would have been reviewing the bids. That certainly warrants attention by an independent panel.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 22:45
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#8
Will you be satisfied, Ed, if an independent panel shows no wrongdoing -- or will that just be more proof of corruption?
Kojo worked in a company that did consulting work for Cotecna. So what? Here's some questions that ought to be answered:
What exactly was Kojo Annan's position in Cotecna when he worked in the company, 13 months before the UN contract? Did his work in that position have anything to do with the UN contract?
What exactly was Kojo Annan's position in the consulting firm? Did his position there have anything to do with the UN contract?
What exactly did the consulting firm do for Cotecna? Did the consulting have anything at all to do with the UN contract?
What exactly did Cotecna do wrong in performing its UN contract? Does any such wrongdoing have anything at all to do with Kojo Annan?
Does Kojo Annan's relationships with Cotecna and with the consulting firm have anything to do with Kofi Annan? Did Kojo Annan profit personally from the relationship? Did Kofi Anna profit?
So far, this all looks like nothing but a baseless but vicious smear of the Annans. There is absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing by the Annans AT ALL!
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/13/2004 23:06
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#9
BMN, this "private property" is a snake pit of hate that incites violence against Americans on US soil, and we salute anyone who stands up against it.
#10
All of this doesn't even mention the overt bribery that took place in late 2002: the massive, multi-billion $$$ sweetheart oil deals Saddam signed with France and Russia's national champions, TotalFinaElf and LUKoil.
TotalFinaElf's deal was for exclusive rights to develop the W Qurna oilfields that contain 1/3 of all of Iraq's proven reserves, or 20 BILLION BARRELS!
Of course, no oil company, certainly not TFE, is large enough to handle such a project by itself, and certainly a consortium would have been formed, but this is by any measure the biggest deal of the last twenty years. I'm not an oil analyst but if one can expect a 5% return on sales over the life of the deal, at an average price of, oh, let's say $30 per barrel this deal equates to 5% X $30/bbl X 20B bbl = $30 billion.
A $30 billion deal for a nation with only a $1.5 trillion dollar economy?! That's breathtaking. OF COURSE France was bribed by Saddam. Ditto for LUKoil's nation (and Russia's economy is about 1/4 the size of France's). Talk about a "coalition of the bribed"!
France and Russia were determined to spring Saddam from the containment box that sanctions (plus no-fly zones and, for a while, inspections) had put him in. In short, by the time TotalFinaElf signed the W Qurna deal (Nov '02), sanctions had collapsed.
In other words, containment too was collapsing, leaving the only remaining alternatives as a) doing business with Saddam (the oilmen's preferred option); and b) overthrowing him by force. Outrageous that this, the crucial angle of the story, is being buried by the MSM.
Please include the link to the original article when posting.
UC BERKELEY NEWS — The Iraq war is not winnable, a secret U.S. military unit has been "disappearing" people since December 2001, and America has no idea how irreparably its torture of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison has damaged its image in the Middle East. These were just a few of the grim pronouncements made by Pulitzer Prize—winning investigative reporter Seymour "Sy" Hersh to KQED host Michael Krasny before a Berkeley audience on Friday night (Oct. 8).
The past two years will "go down as one of the classic sort of failures" in history, said the man who has been called the "greatest muckraker of all time" and (paradoxically) the "enfant terrible of journalism for more than 30 years." While Hersh blamed the White House and the Pentagon for the Iraq quagmire and America's besmirched world image, he was stymied by how it all happened. "How could eight or nine neoconservatives come and take charge of this government?" he asked. "They overran the bureaucracy, they overran the Congress, they overran the press, and they overran the military! So you say to yourself, How fragile is this democracy?"
From My Lai to Abu Ghraib
That fragility clearly unnerves him. Hersh summarizes his mission as "to hold the people in public office to the highest possible standard of decency and of honestyâŠto tolerate anything less, even in the name of national security, is wrong." He tries his best. More than any other U.S. journalist alive today, he embodies the statement that "a patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government," a belief defined by the conservationist Edward Abbey.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Hupereger Ebbigum6422 ||
10/13/2004
7:57:13 AM ||
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#4
Can we please have a moratorium on posting lefty wet dreams?
I mean, geez, Hersh? He's a lying sack of shit.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2004 10:59
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#5
Just how many of these keanulint-brains are there?
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
10/13/2004 11:13
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#6
I read his kennedy darkside camelot book - that was pretty good to go. He was on O'Reilly the other night trying to argue that our interrogation techniques are all wrong but gave no alternative to cracking the jihadis other then we need to gain their trust....I could only scratch my head at him.
#8
I saw this Joker on MSNBC and he was prognosticating that Americans could not do business in the Middle East due to the war. He based this on the comment (probably over a bong) with one âSpecial Forcesâ operative. I donât think Sy has even been on Free Iraqi soil and yet he writes a book on how bad things are going? This book was a good talking point about two weeks ago. Today the Iraqi and U.S. forces are pushing the Jihadists out of most of the trouble spots so his predictions have been overcome by reality. Notice Kerry and Edwards have stopped predicting doom and gloom in Iraq. Sy was probably hoping for a quagmire to last until he could get his book published.
#9
I saw him on the Daily New show with John Stuart and he was saying much of the same B.S. but amazingly enough the audience could not seem to get enough. John Stuart dropped his usual joking and practically rolled on the ground asking for his tummy to be rubbed. Pretty sad and amazing.
#10
I'm sorry, the story of the massacre of the granary guards just reeks... how the hell could two units (platoon-sized, apparently) full of eyewitnesses keep something like that quiet, especially in the internet age? You can't keep something like that quiet, not for very long. Even My Lai couldn't be "dissappeared". There were rumours afterwards, enough to get a journalist named Ron Ridenhour onto the story.
#12
This war will go down as one of Biblical proportions. Those who conducted can be assured their name will be in history books for centuries to come. Sy will be forgotten before his body is cold.
What in Seymour Hersh's record leads you to believe that he's lying? I don't even recall him ever being ACCUSED of lying. His facts are always impeccable, and his stories backed up by actual facts and photographs.
#15
The Cult of Seymour Hersh Columnist John Lofton quotes Hersh in a 1984 interview with the University of Chicago magazine: "I'm not interested in history because I'm trying to change things."
And a lot more.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 13:50
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#16
Oh, maybe a few days into the Afghanistan opertion when Mr. Hersh on the NBC Today program said, based upon 'unnamed sources' in DoD, that the entire operation was going wrong, busted. He was just putting his hat in the race to prejudge the campaign as a failure, disaster. The vote in a Afghanistan this weekend basically buried the nay sayers like Hersh.
Posted by: Don ||
10/13/2004 13:52
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#17
Of course he can't name his sources. That's a retarded comment. Journalists are nothing without sources - give them up and you cease to be a journalist. Journalism as a whole gets demolished. And you can't base accusations on a single line of text taken out of CONtext. That's equally retarded.
So far all Hersh has got are the drool marks from right-wing attack dogs who can't find any teeth to bite him with. Well, and you guys, of course. Who are nothing if not lovin' the right wing.
Hersh brought the inevitable failure of this war to light when he talked to military and intelligence members almost one year ago, who all told him that the plan Bush had was untenable. Only now is it coming to light that he was right.
Similarly he talked to both Scott Ritter and Hand Blix, both of whom were in charge of the search for WMD. He predicted that none would be found, as sanctions had made it impossible for Hussein to import any of the necessary materials.
Two years ago he exposed the Bush camp's reliance on documents that "supposedly" proved that Hussein bought uranium from Nigeria. Like Ambassador Joseph Wilson before him, he discredited any claims that that might have been true, exposing those documents as crude forgeries that no one in the CIA actually believed, but which Cheney wanted very badly.
You people have completely given up any form of "free press". Liberal bias is bullshit. Yes, reporters and artists are generally left wing. But who OWNS those networks? Who OWNS the airwaves? Which financial conglomerates are at the head of all information dissemination in your country? Look at Sinclair media - forcing 62 stations to air an attack-documentary about Kerry weeks before the election - contrary to US ELECTION LAW!. Can you imagine the furour if anyone tried to release Farenheit 9/11?
The only reason Hersh seems like a crackpot is because he's employed by one of the only media outlets in the country financially secure enough to AFFORD to tell the truth. Thank god for New York. That city alone almost wipes out the shame of the American Bible-belt.
#20
Spemble: while corporations own the networks, it doesn't seem to have crimped the style of the left-wing reporters.
2 -- Sinclair isn't violating election laws, though I suspect they've tip-toed right up to the line. They have pretty good lawyers, and I'll bet the lawyers looked at this very carefully.
3 -- As to Farenheit 911: go ahead and broadcast it. More who see it the better, so that all can see just how desparate Michael Moore is.
4 -- While a journalist sometimes can't name sources, a reporter who never names sources isn't going to be credible.
5 -- Scott Ritter -- completely unreliable and unbelievable.
6 -- Hans Blix (aka Inspector Clouseau) -- ditto. You'll have to do better than Ritter and Blix.
7 -- Wilson -- unreliable and a political hack who didn't do the job he was sent to do. Rather damning for a government official, eh?
Sy Hersh occasionally does good work. Problem is, he believes his own press releases.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2004 14:30
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#21
Hersh is fairly consistently wrong, misinformed (despite his "impeccable" sources) or operating from a separate set of assumptions from the rest of us. I quit reading anything he wrote when he wrote up the KAL007 shootdown in, I think, 1984, and managed to "prove" that a foreign airliner was, in fact, a U.S. intel collection platform and thus deserved to be shot down.
Pfui.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004 14:51
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#22
master of super-informed and highly placed "unnamed" sources privy to all manner of embarrassing secrets! He makes that shit up
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2004 14:58
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#23
Sy Hersh can't name his sorces because there aren't any. He come from the Dan Rather school of journalism - if the facts don't suit the thesis, make them up.
#24
The granary guard story is bullshit. If anyone else here has been in the military or with a grunt outfit within the last 10 years you'll know a half dozen reasons why it's bullshit off the bat. I still liked the camelot book though.
#25
Jarhead, I am positive that the granary massacre is BS, and I want to see that story torn apart, and Seymour Hersh join Dan Rather in the corner of irrelevancy, but I don't have specifics, other than the conviction that you couldn't have 50 or so American military guys see this happening and not one do a thing about it. List and explain all the ways it is a BS story, from your point of view. I am afraid if this story is not immediatly and promptly debunked, it will live as long as the stories about the whacked-out, atrocity-committing Vietnam vet. I am sick to death of people making careers out of bogus atrocity stories.
#26
Hupereger Ebbigum6422, According to my 'unnamed, high-level, and in-the-know sources, Sy is a IDIOT! Much like his buddy Dan he has been wrong at pretty much every charge he has laid on this administration. He reminds of the sniveling little rat Krugman, who taught book cooking at the prestigeâs Eron Corp (according to my sources). Can you honestly read that crap about the granary massacre, secret units disappearing, and claim this guy is playing with a full deck? Maybe he, Krugman, and you can share some nice blue pills together? Remember you need to take those daily.
the only good thing about hersh is that he will die sooner or later, and in 50 years nobody will remember who he was. his writing will end up burned on the world's trash heap.
#28
Sgt Mom, here are some good ones just off the top of my grape:
1) What Lieutenant's going to call Hersh from halfway around the world? What, on a cellphone in a combat zone? Failing to prevent a war crime and totally bucking the chain of command to include the Battalion C.O., Regimental C.O., Division C.O., etc. Doesn't wash.
2) Just happened to have Hersh's hotline or Hersh interviewed some guy dying to tell some bullshit that he himself was involved in, responsible for and failed to prevent. That's even too stupid for any Lieutenant I've ever known to include myself when I was one (and I did some real dumb shit). Sounds like Winter Soldier Part Deux.
3) There are strict rules of engagement and ethics every officer is entrusted to carry out to include refusing unlawful orders - this is drilled into us. Being a "zero" myself I can say w/100% certainty no Company Commander allowed this to happen - not today or under such black and white circumstances. I lmao when I first read it.
4) 43 Guys in one rifle platoon for us Gyrines, makes 86 if there's two. And Hersh is the first one to hear about this and this happened when? Give me a big fricken break. This would've gotten out big time, people would already be in the brig or getting thrown out w/a bcd. I don't know too many Lance Corporals that can keep a secret and their saying about 40 of them could here in this instance...bwhahahaha.
5) Human rights assholes would've been on this way before Hersh if we were whacking locals in some town in front of other locals. Perfect fodder for the jihadis and they missed it to? yeah, right.
6) If it sounds like hollywood bullshit - it is.
Mikey J. Fox and commie Penn should be suing Hersh for infringement...he lifted the script from "Casualties of War" & ran w/it.
#7
Don't liberals like Stone claim to be for the little guy? Well if "rich" is people who make $200,000+/year or more (which it's not per Democrats), then "the little guy" might be said to be someone who makes $197,000/year. Those poor people who don't have their own drivers.
Posted by: Nick Speth ||
10/18/2004 14:50
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#8
Quick, somoene make up a graphic of Bush shopping at Wal Mart, looking at an aisle of dead terrorist heads, or being at Customer Service returning some WMDs.
That's what I love about Moose limbs: they're so tolerant of other people, so easy to get along with, so non-violent...
Thousands of Muslim students and activists held protest demonstrations in various cities nationwide on Wednesday in a bid to pressure the government and businesspeople to close all nightspots and gambling dens during Ramadhan. The protesters said the closure must be done out of respect for Muslims, who are required to fast during the daylight hours for a month beginning on Friday. The protest in the West Sumatra capital of Padang nearly turned into brawl when a group of some 150 Muslim protesters faced off with another group of people who support an alleged local gambling den baron, Rudy Iskandar, during the protest on Wednesday. A similar protest was also held in the Central Sulawesi capital of Palu, where dozens of Muslims rallied in front of the office of the Central Sulawesi provincial council. Calling themselves the Ramadhan Care Movement, the activists demanded the Central Sulawesi governor to close down all nightspots and gambling houses during Ramadhan. In Palembang, South Sumatra, dozens of students again hit the streets on Wednesday, pressing their demand for the government to crack down hard on entertainment center operators, who planned to stay open during Ramadhan.
Federal and local law enforcers were searching the Islamic American Relief Agency on Wednesday as part of what the FBI described generically as a criminal investigation. People wearing FBI outfits carried computers, cardboard boxes and a file cabinet out of the Islamic group's office and loaded the equipment into a white van and U-Haul truck. Among those participating in the search was a man wearing a jacket of the Joint Terrorism Task Force. FBI spokesman Jeff Lanza would not say whether the search was connected to terrorism. He also declined to characterize the investigation, saying the federal search warrant remained under seal. The search began around 2:30 p.m. and involved 11 law enforcement agencies, Lanza said. FBI agents also were searching a Columbia home, Lanza said. He declined to elaborate.
The Islamic nonprofit group was formed in 1985, according to its Web site, and among other things provides emergency relief to refugees in Afghanistan. The group also promotes aid efforts in such places as Iran, Ethiopia, Mali and Bosnia. It is located near downtown Columbia, not far from the campus of the University of Missouri-Columbia. The group's Web site offers the chance to sponsor an overseas orphan ($30 a month will provide a one-on-one sponsorship). The Islamic organization also provides vocational training and primary health care, including immunizations, nutrition counseling, prenatal care, infection disease prevention and clean water supplies, according to its Web site. No one answered a phone call Wednesday at the Islamic American Relief Agency.
#4
Talk about a Jezabel. She convinces him to give her the job back and then she tapes his lurid fantasies. I'd be more disgusted if she didn't ask for him to help her get her job back...just so she could set him up. What a Judas.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not an O'Reily fan. I could care less if he went off the air.
#8
For gods sake! you damm liberals! Oreilly's the only dude keepin this country's disgustingly biased media in check. Who cares if he pinched some A$$?
FRANCE'S Ambassador to the United States Jean-David Levitte has condemned what he called the France-bashing rhetoric of the US presidential campaign. "As the French ambassador, I consider that during the last few weeks we have been a bit too much, as France, the punching bag of the electoral debate," Levitte said in comments at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in Washington. "I cannot accept to see France, the French citizens, or French companies used as a tool of the campaign," he said.
Reject and be damned, sir!
Levitte referred specifically to recent press allegations that France conspired with deposed Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to bilk the UN Oil for Food program of millions of dollars - an allegation which France has denied. "I think it's fair to say that the United Nations did its best," he said. "It was a good program. Was it perfect? Of course not," he said, in remarks made in English.
"What's a few billion here and there? Nothing, really, in the grand scheme of things..."
He declined to answer a question about his preference between White House contenders US President George W Bush and Democratic challenger John Kerry. "It is the privilege of each American to choose his or her president," Levitte said. "I'm not an American and I've nothing to say in the electoral campaign. What is important for two friends and allies like the United States and France is to make sure that whatever the choice... of the American people, we'll be in a position to work well together." The ambassador acknowledged that Paris and Washington have disagreed over the US-led war in Iraq, but said those differences, for the most part, have been resolved. "If we have different views about Iraq, on all the other issues we worked well, and we continue to work well, and it is important after November the 2nd to continue to do an even better job, if possible," Levitte said.
#2
FRANCEâS Ambassador to the United States Jean-David Levitte has condemned what he called the France-bashing rhetoric of the US presidential campaign.
#4
Tell how the oil vouchers are not a direct bribe to France and it's opposition to doing what is right. Dead babies have never bothered the French much if they are not French. Thats why France didn't condem Saddams baby killing and genocide. Keep the bribes coming and we will carry your water.
#5
Allez-y, con. You and your government owe a huge apology to President Allawi and the people of Iraq. Instead of whining about Fox News, I suggest you pay a visit to Iraq and face the victims of your thievery.
#10
I'm halfway through "Our Oldest Enemy: A History of America's Disastrous Relationship with France", by John J. Miller and Mark Molesky. It's a great read.
I've nothing against the French people; but their government can bite my shorts.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/13/2004 19:36
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#11
But be polite no F#$% Phrawnce.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 19:40
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#12
By his cultural values, everything France did is just fine. Its only us naive Americans who don't understand and accept how the world works.
#13
The only anger I have over France-bashing is that there hasn't been nearly enough of it yet.
That's OK, though. France showed itself clearly, and most Americans know exactly what they are about. France WANTS Iraq to fail, because it would be bad for the US, and they continue to actively strive for that failure.
The myth of France as an ally has been permanently extinguished.
#14
I've nothing against the French people;
Dave,
Why wouldn't you have anything against the French people? They are the ones who elect their leaders and polls have consistently shown the French people wish ill upon Americans. If you mean there are some fine French individuals, then I can agree with you. But that doesn't negate what the French people, as a whole, think.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 21:29
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#15
French society is much more elitist than ours. Only those selected at age 16 via national tests have any real shot at the brass ring in politics and business. The real problem is a corrupt and self-referential political class that plays out its ridiculously machiavellian political strategems to the great detriment of the Atlantic Alliance, Europe, and France's own citizens. The deal for the French people is simple: they (the elites) preserve our benefits and our corporatist privileges (right to strike above all), we allow them free reign in the political sphere.
Helas, there's little hope that this corrupt bargain will change anytime soon.
#16
"Dave, Why wouldn't you have anything against the French people?"
That's a good question, ed. Perhaps it has to do with lex's comment about the elitist nature of French society: what little I know of the people and their attitudes toward us, I'm willing to attribute at least partly to their being misled by the ruling classes.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/13/2004 22:49
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#17
Damn, they're complaining that we are hurting their feelings? When I read the headline I thought we were finally cracking some skulls. Oh well, maybe next year.
#18
Imagine an America in which all political candidates and all CEOs (with next to no startups or new companies ever being formed) are derived from a pool defined as National Merit Scholars who participated in their high schools' Model United Nations forum, and you get a flavor for how ridiculously inbred, arrogant and corrupt the French elites are.
By Lee Kuan Yew / The Straits Times / 10-13-04 This article, by Singapore's Minister Mentor, appears in the current issue of Forbes magazine.
THIS year's presidential election in the United States has special significance for East Asia. A Pacific Ocean diminished in size by technology has linked East Asia's economic future with America's. Any slowdown in the US spells problems for Asia. Although intra-East Asian trade has grown by double digits yearly since the 1990s, the end destination for about 25 per cent of the region's manufactured products is still the US. Asia needs a US administration that supports free trade and is able to restrain domestic pressures to protect American jobs by restricting outsourcing.
AMERICA'S FRIENDS TARGETED
OF EVEN greater concern to Asia, however, is the Islamist terror threat. Because globalisation has brought about a planet-wide focus, suicide bombers now target Americans and America's friends in Asia. In Iraq, besides Americans and Britons, terrorists have taken Italians, Egyptians, Turks, Nepalese, Indians, Pakistanis and many others hostage. When the Italian government refused to withdraw its troops from Iraq, terrorists killed the Italian journalist they were holding. They had expected the Italian government to yield in the same way that the Philippines had in order to save its countryman. Terrorists in Iraq have also beheaded one Nepali, two Bulgarians, one South Korean and three Americans, besides killing many others. The 'Islamic Army in Iraq' went beyond demanding the withdrawal of foreign forces; it threatened to kill two French journalists if France didn't rescind its ban on the wearing of headscarves by Muslim girls attending French state schools.
Some believe that if the US had not attacked Iraq, the terrorists would not have become so numerous and so barbaric. Escalating terrorist outrages both inside and outside Iraq show a dynamic independent of what's going on there. Every new horror is quickly copied, including coordinated suicide bombings, hostage-takings and intimidation through the posting of videos of beheadings on the Internet. Disparate terrorist groups outdo one another in extremes of savagery. They are eager to die and take with them as many victims as possible. Islamists consider an attack on Muslims anywhere as a crime against all Muslims. Their websites tabulate massacres of Muslims in Chechnya, Bosnia, Kosovo, Kashmir, Mindanao, Ambon, Poso and Palestine, citing all as atrocities against the Muslim ummah (community). To influence Indonesia's presidential elections on Sept 20 and Australia's elections on Oct 9, Islamic jihadists exploded a huge car bomb on Sept 9 at the Australian Embassy in Jakarta, killing nine and injuring 182. To their credit, Indonesians and Australians have not allowed this attack to influence their elections.
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10/13/2004
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PARIS -- The French are arrogant, rude and surly to foreign visitors, said a leading French politician behind a scathing report on how the Gallic welcome leaves much to be desired.
Bernard Plasait, a member of France's upper house of parliament, has concluded what millions of visitors have known for years. "Our bad image in this area, the arrogance we are accused of, our refusal to speak foreign languages, the sense we give that it's a great honor to visit us are among the ugly facts of which we should not be proud," reads the first paragraph of Mr. Plasait's report, which was commissioned by the government. "Certainly, these accusations don't date from yesterday," the report continues.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
5:28:47 AM ||
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#1
The French government particularly was alarmed by the 21 percent, or $6 billion, drop in spending by visitors from the United States.
This is due to a lack of Welcome to France signs and poor baggage handling? Just keep fooling yourselves, kuffirs.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 9:34
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#2
The French think tourists are a nuisance.
Kerry thinks terrorists are.
By the way, I have quit buying French wine since late 2002, and I actively discourage others from ordering French bottles in restaurants (pretty easy, considering both the quality of wines from friendly countries and the high cost of French wine). I've considered making disparaging comments on the wine list if there are French wines, too; restaurant owners need to give up on that habit too. What other French export can one boycott?
#4
Kalle:
Here's a good list of products. I found I couldn't boycott France since I never bought their products anyway, so what I did was to start buying more Australian wine so the comparative difference would be larger.
#5
Not surprised that the U.S. is the #1 destination. Everywhere I have traveled outside the U.S. most people have expressed a desire to visit or live in the U.S. Aside from the Jihadists pouring into Frenchistan, I doubt anybody is willing to emigrate to France. This does not apply to Congolese deserters.
#6
The sad thing is the French produce nothing I like so I can't really boycott them. Or else you can say I've been boycotting them for most of my life.
#9
Kalle,
For starters you can boycott french cheese
then go on the French cars (Renalt, Citroen, Pegeault), then French airlines......
and finally French Hookers
Together, if we care we can bring thwem to their knees, or at least weaken their economy which is basically the only thing that really interests them.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
10/13/2004 12:13
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#10
Well, I was thinking more in terms of a product type with high meaning in their neurotic self-perception. Cheese is probably not that big an export of theirs. Cars, haha -- who buys French cars? I think fragrance and cosmetics should be a target. Wine and perfume are the essence of what the French think they are the best at.
So, no more tourism in France, no more French wine (do comment on wine lists in restaurants), and no more French fragrance.
#11
Paddy Irish Whiskey is on the list----that is a tregedy................because............ the French bought out the distillery. That will be my most painful one to lose.....besides the cosmetics, you understand.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2004 14:01
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#12
LOL, AP.
You're such a card. ;-)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/13/2004 14:14
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#13
but a pretty card lol
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2004 14:21
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#14
If you want to put a crimp in their snotty attitudes, boycott, or better yet, put a prohibitive import duty on French luxury products. It cost very little to manufacture and is sold for way too much. Cosmetics and perfumes ($.50 worth of product sold for $50), high fashion and accessories (e.g. Louis Vitton).
But most important, place high tariffs on profitable and growing segments of industry. For instance by placing tariffs on French designed or manufactured bio-engineered goods, a high barrier is in place against any multinational locating the neccessary R&D and manufacturing in France. A generation of this and France will turn into a technological backwater.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 14:21
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#15
What other French export can one boycott?
Well, companies can stop buying Alcatel stuff. Me, I stopped using Motul oil in my motorcycle. :)
#16
Boycotting French cheese is in fact a big hardship. Their wine and perfume can easily be substituted, and there are plenty of other places to visit on vacation. But the cheese !
#18
Excuse me? Americans talking about how rude the French are? No fucknig way...
As a Canadian, we get the heavy hand of American arrogance every single day of our lives. You people lay out huge protective "tariffs" on our lumber, wheat, cattle, steel. You steal our electricity, and drain the Great Lakes at your convenience and then have the GALL to tell us we don't "pull our weight" in sending troops to Iraq.
Well screw you all. We have about a TENTH of your population, so we can't AFFORD a big military. But that doesn't stop us from producing a carbine assault rifle that your marine forces are clamoring to get their hands on. That doesn't stop us from inventing and producing the Stryker armored vehicle which is even now saving your lives in Iraq.
Not to mention signing on for your ridiculous and infantile missle defense shield, a technology which will never work.
#20
No problem. Shut down the border and go our separate ways.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 14:48
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#21
Spemble-Leafer,
Here's a trade for you: we'll take your best doctors and businessmen and scientists and technologists, and you take our Mikey Moore types. No tariffs either way. One-for-one swap, perfect parity.
#22
How does Canada's population compare to Australia's? and what about military commitment to freedom, involvement in WW IV, resistance to Shariah, and opposition to Islamofascist terrorists?
#28
Spemble Spains3686 - dumbass the stryker is being built by GM General Dynamics Land Systems Defense Group LLC which employs many of you yoodles up there..
Engineering will take place in Sterling Heights, Mich http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/iav.htm
there is not much produced in canada that wasn't designed in the states...
canada is just a bunch of freeloaders - wellfare from your own govt and security from uncle sam.
anyways you should chill - as soon as your country breaks up many of your provinces
will be a state of the union...
Posted by: Dan ||
10/13/2004 15:47
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#29
How 'bout actually being excellent and available? Image then will take care of itself.
#30
canadians are just like the majority of the rest of the world...envious our prosperity and ingenuity and pissed that thier own system sucks..
Spains3686 - tell me why so many canadians go south of the border when expensive medical treatment is needed? or when they want to fill up their tanks? cause buddy your system sucks - all those taxes and you get a shitty medical system (but free)...
Posted by: Dan ||
10/13/2004 15:53
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#31
Re: #18. I don't have anything against Canada, but I sure don't care for this line: Not to mention signing on for your ridiculous and infantile missle defense shield, a technology which will never work.
Only the smallest of minds can ever dismiss something like this for the simple reason it's never been done before. Thank God there are people out there with more vision and dedication to the pursuit of knowledge than you. That boneheads like you reap the benefits of science, medicine, and technology today that previous boneheads once called impossible and dismissed out of hand is the living definition of irony and ignorance.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 15:56
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#32
Oh, and take back Jim Carrey and Mike Myers while you're at it.
#37
Well screw you all. We have about a TENTH of your population, so we can't AFFORD a big military. Please explain how Canada managed to have such a large military during WW2. They were an incredible asset throughout the war despite their tiny population. They could AFFORD a big military then, and now, they have simply chosen not to.
#39
The whole problem with Canada is that it is run by frogs. If they would stop bending over for Quebec it would probably straignten out quickly.
How long will it take western Canada to secede and join the US? It would probably make the most sense to just fold BC into Washington (similar politics and demographics), Calgary and Alberta into Montana, and Saskatchewan into North Dakota.
Most western Canadians outside Vancouver ad anglophile Victoria would probably support this. As to our side, this arrangement would probably add equally to the red and blue sides of the electoral equation, so both Dems and Repubs would get on board.
#41
Okay, I'm going to defend relations with Canada here, including and especially trade relations.
Just because Canada manufactures things designed here (and that is by no means always the case) doesn't relegate her to a lesser status. Natural resources and some people resources are important contributors to product value. So too is the value of having a functional economy next door to us.
Am I happy about all things Canadian? Not at all - there are many many things about Canada that I not only don't like, I find them worrisome for our own security.
However - credit where credit is due, and the comments here that denigrate Canadan contribution to products is misguided.
So is much of Spemble Spains3686's tirade, but that doesn't excuse the same thing from others.
By Betsy Pisik
THE WASHINGTON TIMES October 13th, 2004
U.S. officials yesterday said they would look into a report that radioactive material and sophisticated equipment had disappeared from Iraq's nuclear power and research facilities, but expressed confidence that such dangerous materials are now secure. In a letter to the U.N. Security Council on Monday, Mohamed El Baradei the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) warned that whole buildings had suffered "systematic dismantlement" and that sensitive equipment previously subject to U.N. verification and monitoring had disappeared.
U.S. officials at the United Nations and the State Department said Washington would investigate the charges, but expressed no urgency. "I think we share the general concern that some material might have gotten out into the market immediately after the war," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said yesterday. "But to the extent that all of us have been able to bring it under control, we have done that, and we have been able to — I think the Iraqis have been able to put in place the kind of monitoring safeguards and control systems that are necessary to prevent any further leakage."
At the United Nations yesterday, Deputy U.S. Ambassador Anne Patterson told reporters: "Obviously, we'll do a full investigation, working with the Iraqis." But other U.S. officials seemed eager to play down the two-page letter, saying they had not seen it before yesterday. The IAEA concerns surfaced only three weeks before the U.S. presidential election, in which the Iraq invasion and its justification have become issues.
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Australians might be divided over the Iraq war, but the election result proved most backed plans to keep troops there, Prime Minister John Howard said today. Mr Howard said that while he did not believe Iraq was a major election issue, most people supported his view that Australia should stay in Iraq until the job was done. The opposition also failed to turn the Iraq war into a major issue, despite its pledge to bring Australian troops home from Iraq by Christmas if it won government, he said. "There was divided opinion in Australia on whether or not we should have gone into Iraq," Mr Howard told CNN.
"But the overwhelming majority of Australians believe very strongly that having gone there, we should stay and finish the job. ... "They rejected the notion of the premature withdrawal of our forces until their job has been completed. ... "That is, of course, a view that I put very strongly."
Mr Howard's comments were backed by Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, who said in the Asian Wall Street Journal that Australians had made clear foreign policy choices at last Saturday's election. In an article for the newspaper, Mr Downer wrote that most Australians realised it would be folly for Australia to withdraw its troops from Iraq now just as the country was on the brink of democracy.
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
5:20:24 AM ||
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#1
Beautiful--thank God the Aussies demonstrated the majority feel the same way as Howard and aren't head-in-the-sand Antiwar types that think this terrorism "nuisance" will just blow away if we ignore it long enough--up until the last non-Islamofascist is beheaded.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 10:20
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#2
I always loved the Aussies....
Posted by: jawa ||
10/13/2004 11:18
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Posted by: Mike ||
10/13/2004 13:05
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#5
Thank god for the Aussies. And for the other Asian democracies. Time to develop a closer alliance with Australia and start involving exploring ways to involve the Indian military as well.
#8
Wouldn't it be shorter to bore through and pull Australia through the earth's core?
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 18:01
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#9
Give them enough beer, Ed, and they'll fold up nicely. Give them a little more, and they won't even notice the heat ;-) Besides, JFM, if we pull them directly across the Pacific, think how many tropical islands they'll sweep up along the way. We don't want to be greedy; after all, we already have Hawaii.
Former UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix believed the Government's controversial Iraq weapons dossier actually understated the case against Saddam Hussein, according to documents released today by the Foreign Office. He suppoerted the case against Saddam before he came out against it.
The papers released by the FO in time for the election in the US?
show that British officials at the United Nations in New York showed a draft of the dossier to Dr Blix in September 2002, two weeks before the final version was published. A note from one official, Adam Bye, said that Dr Blix had liked the section on chemical, biological and nuclear weapons as he believed that it did not exaggerate the facts. According to the note, Dr Blix said that the dossier even risked understating Iraq's ability to produce weapons of mass destruction — particularly the lethal anthrax virus. He also described the claim that even if Iraq was able to acquire fissile material from abroad, it would still take at least two years to build a working nuclear bomb as "modest".
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004
5:17:00 PM ||
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Blix defintley seems to be on both sides of the issue here. Whats the deal? Is he looking for a job?
A picket was held in support of the Chechen separatists outside the Russian Embassy in Tallinn on Wednesday. The picketers carried posters reading "Freedom to Chechnya!" and "Stop the genocide in Chechnya!" They distributed leaflets calling for peace in Chechnya and an end to murders there. Sirja Kiin, an activist with the Peace to Chechnya movement, told reporters the picket was intended "to exert pressure on Russia to fulfill its international commitments, including the beginning of a peace process in Chechnya, which it promised when it entered the OSCE." Russia should begin talks with Chechen separatist leader Aslan Maskahdov, she said. "If it is true that Shamil Basayev was behind the act of terrorism in Beslan, he should be punished. But I have no evidence that the statement posted on the Internet belongs to him. I have reasons to doubt it," Kiin said. The first picket of the kind was held two weeks ago in Uppsala, Sweden, she said. Several other European cities have joined the movement, she said. "We plan to hold them every Wednesday. So far we have permission for three weeks, because city regulations do not allow issuing permits for a longer time, but we will be asking for a prolongation of the permit every time," Kiin said.
Time magazine's recent cover story on Islam, "The Struggle Within," has alerted us to some of the mistakes made in the Iraq war. One of those mistakes, rectified by the new Iraqi interim government, was allowing the Arab television network Al-Jazeera to broadcast from Iraq.
Under normal circumstances, we don't interfere with press and broadcast activities, even if they're not on our side, an extension of the idea of free press to the rest of the world. Al Jizz takes this courtesy and abuses it. If all they did was report from the other side, there would be no real problem. By actively taking sides they cross the line.
The Time magazine article, written by Bill Powell, has several references to how images of the conflict have fed the fires of the terrorist assault against our troops and the people of Iraq. American news organizations have broadcast the same images, but they were given more power and authority through Al-Jazeera, known as a mouthpiece for al Qaeda.
Al Jizz has broadcast quite a few images that the American news organizations wouldn't touch with a 12-foot pole. Americans don't have the fascination for pictures of corpses, mutilation and murder that Arabs seem to.
Sheik Khale, an Imam in Cairo, is quoted as saying, "Most of the pictures we see are of Iraqi heads stepped on by American Army boots." Musdah Mulia, a Muslim scholar in Indonesia, says that "moderates" in the religion "are finding it more difficult to discuss issues like human rights and democracy when photos of Americans torturing Iraqis keep appearing."
I'd call that mere evidence that human beings tend to zero in on what supports their own side. Images of Iraqi heads stepped on by American boots are outnumbered by pictures of infidels having their heads lopped off.
Oil problems in an outpost of Opec-land? lol
Motorists in the UAE may soon find themselves lining up to buy petrol. Purchasing refined petrol at Dh 6.75 per gallon but allowed by the authorities to sell at only Dh 4.75 per gallon, the country's gasoline retailers incur a substantial loss estimated at about Dh 4.1 million daily, especially now that world crude prices have reached more than US$ 50 per barrel. EPCCO/ENOC, with more than 160 service stations in Dubai and the Northern Emirates, loses upwards of Dh 1.4 million a day.
An industry spokesman said that a business incurring losses of that magnitude is clearly not sustainable in the long term, unless the companies have either access to subsidised products or retail prices are increased by as much as Dh 2 per gallon. The source said that while petrol retail pump price is set by the Federal Government, retailers like EPPCO that don't have access to crude oil of their own need to buy product at high international market prices. "Over the last 5 years, EPPCO lost a total of about Dh 450 million because of the high product acquisition cost," said an EPPCO source.
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
4:37:54 AM ||
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I weep for them.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/13/2004 10:03
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#2
I just started reading Thomas Sowell's "Basic Economics". In the first chapter, he talks about the gas lines in the '70s, and how they were caused by price caps. Looks like some people never learn, but you just have to savor the irony of a gas shortage in the UAE.
A PRE-EMPTIVE Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear installations would be fraught with risks and difficulties, but it would set back significantly Tehran's development programme, a respected think-tank in Tel Aviv said yesterday. However, the bombing of Iran's facilities — a possibility that appeared to increase with the revelation last month that the United States had agreed to sell Israel "bunker buster" bombs — should be the last resort, said researchers from the Jaffee Centre for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University.
After news that Israel would take delivery of the precision-guided bombs capable of destroying underground targets, some analysts argued that the diversity of Iran's facilities and poor intelligence would make a raid impossible. Yet despite the problems of such an operation, Ephraim Kam, the Jaffee Centre's deputy head, said that it would put the programme back for a year or more and should not be ruled out if diplomatic pressure failed to halt Iran's research.
Israel regards Iran as its biggest strategic worry. Intelligence sources estimate that Tehran will acquire nuclear weapons by 2007 and defence chiefs have hinted at a first strike similar to the one on the Osirak facility in Iraq 23 years ago, which thwarted Saddam Hussein's atomic designs. Israel's alarm has acquired new urgency after Major-General Giora Eiland, its National Security Adviser, said that Iran would reach the "point of no return" by late November, rather than next year, when it would require no further outside aid to bring the programme to fruition.
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
4:30:42 AM ||
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#1
Mark,
If Kerry gets elected I have a feeling you can forget about any American foreign policy which requires the "Iron Testicle Technique".
In such a case (and maybe even earlier) I guess
we will have to take care of this ourselves.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
10/13/2004 11:37
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Elder, of course Kerry would do something - he'll send in the Keystone Cops - but only after thousands are killed and France and the U.N. give their permission (Global test).
#3
CF,
in order to perform "Holy Castration (TM)" procedure on said Mullahs you need:
1) True understanding of the situation.
2) Loyalty to all American citizens,
3) The ability to hold your opinion for more than 15 minutes.
I doubt Kerry actually possesses any of the above
characteristics.
Therefore, I suspect if he gets elected, we (meaning the old Zionists and JOOOOS) will be left with all the dirty work.
Anyhow, we must do this simply because we cannot
under any circumstances afford a nuclear Iran.
Now I must go search for my Geiger counter and my inertial guidance systems :)
Aloha.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
10/13/2004 13:06
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#4
Israel âshould attack nuclear sites in Iran if diplomacy failsâ
It didn't succeed with Kimmy, so why would anyont think Iran would be any different?
..some analysts argued that the diversity of Iranâs facilities and poor intelligence would make a raid impossible.
"Poor intelligence"? Heh, this is Israel that we're talking about here.
#5
"...We shall soon see after the election. Most likely any major move will be made after November 16th, the end of this yearâs month of Ramadan. Itâs not nice to upset terrorists prior to wacking them..."
I would suggest that if the factories and or facilities do not go null during this period, we should feel free to hit them post haste anyway!
#8
Elder, if the unthinkable were to ever happen, (I had a hard time typing that last bit ;)
But let's say Lurch begins lurking in the White House, (what a horrid thought)
Elder how are you at teaching others Hebrew? Since it would seem the ONLY logical place for me to depart to is Zion itself, were the majority fully understands the jihad enemy and how to deal with him..
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004 18:20
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#9
Mark, Israel has a program called "Ulpan" for all immigrants to learn Hebrew. It goes quite quickly -- full immersion -- and you'll come out able to read, write and speak fluent conversational Hebrew well within 6 months. Probably by the end of the first month you will be able to function well enough to go out on your own. Don't worry, this is the same program that brought the illiterate Falashas of Ethiopia up to speed. And the dialogs and illustrations are very cute (My Hebrew School used them for the Jr. High years. Then we went on to write essays about the poetry of Amos Oz, and the literary devices used in the book of Job. Great fun!)
However, if you want to get a head start, try the "Learn Hebrew for Free" site (http://foundationstone.com.au/FoundationStoneNoFrame.html). Enjoy!
#11
Mark,
The only way to learn swimming is to jump into the water.
As trailing wife says, Ulpan is quite good and anyhow 95% of Israelis speake reasonable English.
Dont worry, if the worse happen in the US and you end up joining us in ZION i'm sure you'll manage.
Right now, what reaaly matters is to go out and convince the wavering to vote GWB !
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
10/14/2004 6:34
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Testifying for the defence in Slobodan Milosevic's war crimes trial, a German journalist told the court Tuesday that ethnic-Albanian separatists in the former Yugoslavia deliberately attempted to provoke an attack on civilians by Serb troops. The journalist, Franz Josef Hutsch, a former German army major who spent months with the Kosovo Liberation Army in 1998 and 1999, also said the KLA ran drugs and prostitutes into other parts of Europe to finance weapons purchases. Hutsch described the KLA as a well-organized force, assisted by officers from Algeria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Morocco who had trained somewhere in Turkey.
KLA tactics during the ceasefire in late 1998 included staging hit-and-run attacks on Serb patrols designed to "force them into a trap and try to provoke an excessive reaction" in order to hasten foreign intervention, he said. They also tried to lure the Serbs into attacking civilians in early 1999 so the images would be shown during peace negotiations taking place in Rambouillet, France, he added. The testimony came after a month-long recess in which the case resumed much as it had left off - with Milosevic demanding that he be allowed to fire his court-appointed lawyers and represent himself. The former Yugoslav president accused his trial judges of offering him only "scraps of rights." But presiding Judge Patrick Robinson cut him short, saying, "I don't want a speech" and told Steven Kay, the appointed defence lawyer, to continue his questioning of Hutsch. Both Kay and the prosecution filed briefs to an appellate court on whether Milosevic should be allowed to again lead his own defence. Kay contended that Milosevic had a "fundamental right" to defend himself, while the prosecution argued that the repeated delays caused by Milosevic's ill health defied the need for a speedy trial. Medical reports have said Milosevic's chronic high blood pressure could become life threatening under the stress of defending himself, something he did during the trial's first two years.
It was not clear when the appeals court would hand down its decision, but in the meantime Kay was continuing the defence case but hampered by Milosevic's refusal to co-operate. The prosecution wrapped up its presentation in February. Dozens of witnesses Milosevic had planned to call have refused to testify unless the former Serb leader is allowed to question them himself. Milosevic is accused of unleashing Serb troops who committed atrocities while quashing a rebellion in Kosovo, a southern province of Serbia dominated by ethnic Albanians. Eventually NATO launched a 78-day bombing campaign to force the Serbs to end the crackdown. Milosevic has described the Kosovo war as a defensive action against terrorists. Why the hell did we (America) get involved in this conflict? The more I read about it the more it looks as if we helped the friggin jihadis who this year did a little 'ethnic cleansing' by burning down monastaries and churches and killing Serbs because they are Christians. Anyone know enough about this conflict to enlighten me to what the truth is about America getting involved? Lately I think the reason we got involved had nothing to do with genocide (and that the genocide claims were a lie?), and everything to do with being the UN's bitch. Fred?
#1
I think the reason we got involved had nothing to do with genocide (and that the genocide claims were a lie?), and everything to do with being the UNâs bitch.
The USA intervened in Serbia as part of a NATO operation. All the NATO countries approved the operation, unanimously. The main reason that NATO acted was that the Serbs were expelling the entire Muslim Kosovar population from Kosovo to the neighboring countries, creating an international problem.
The UN did not approve the intervention, but only because two countries -- Russia and China -- would have imposed their Security Council vetoes.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/13/2004 22:14
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* Thugs storm campaign headquarters, intimidating staffers and refusing to leave.
* Campaign signs are vandalized, stolen, and set on fire in front of peoples' homes.
* The word "Nazi" is spray painted on the sidewalk in front of a home, along with swastikas.
* Shots are fired through the window of campaign headquarters.
* An eight-foot swastika is burned into a home's front lawn.
If these incidents sound reminiscent of Nazi Germany or the Ku Klux Klan's early rampages, then you're in for a surprise, because they all took place in modern day America, during the run-up to the 2004 presidential election. And instead of Nazis and the KKK, it's the leftist minions who are the perpetrators this time around. In a classic case of projection, they use swastikas to smear their political adversaries, when it is in fact they who have become today's Nazis.
Like so much of America's leftist "cultural heritage", this Nazi-obsession can be traced back to the 1960s. An Australian relative of mine who arrived in America during the so-called Summer of Love, was shocked to hear people using the term "Nazi" on a daily basis. The government, the police and even parents were labeled "fascists" and "Nazis" by hippie youth rebelling against any and all authority. Years later, not much has changed. Today it's hip on the Left to label Republicans and in particular President Bush "Nazis" at every turn. Bush is routinely compared to Adolph Hitler, most famously in an ad put out by MoveOn.org earlier this year. Hitler mustaches superimposed on Bush photos are popular at anti-war rallies, as are cute little Bush/Hitler dolls. Al Gore's notorious "digital Brown Shirts" comment during a speech at the Georgetown University Law Center implied that the Bush Administration exerted some kind of diabolical control over online journalism. Indeed, such allusions are so widespread that numerous articles and websites have been devoted to chronicling them.
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
4:13:33 AM ||
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#1
I doubt the moderators are up...but if you are...the margins are all screwed up!!
#2
2b, As soon as a moderator walks in here the goofed up margins should be corrected in quick order.
I have been going all..the...way ..over ..there ...and back :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004 5:49
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#3
Fox News had a segment on the vandalism last night. They showed pictures of ransacked Bush/Cheney offices and some pictures of the places where shots had been fired. They also mentioned the injuries suffered by Bush/Cheney workers. Then they went to the Democrat offices that had been "vandalized". The only vandalizim was wrighting on windows. No destroyed equipment, no forced entries by anyone, and they tried to equate the violence done to the Republican offices with the graffiti done to the democrat offices.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
10/13/2004 7:37
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#4
Mark, you should have made enough on oil futures by now to afford a large format display. Get to 1600x1200 and stop scrolling. Best way I know to frustrate trolls.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 7:53
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Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2004 8:27
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#7
Lord only knows what theyâll do if Bush wins the presidency come November, but you can be sure it will involve swastikas.
I've wondered about that myself. You know if/when Bush wins, every Leftist out there will scream "unfair election!!" If/when he wins, I think this vandalizing will be only the tip of the iceberg. And I'm only saying "if/when" because the race is close right now. Anything can swing in Kerry's favor, which is the scary thing. I disagree with some of Bush's policies, but man, Kerry's only proposed policies are the ones that are popular at the moment.
#8
"Fox News. Bastion of impartiality, and honesty."
Well let's see now CBS,ABC,NBC,PBS,CNN,NYT,LAT
That makes the score somewhere around 7 to 1. I know I've missed some. Thank God for FOX or we would have completely DNC leaning news coverage.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
10/13/2004 9:18
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This sort of thing represents the incredible and irrational demonization going on on both sides. OTOH the reaction to it - the holding of all Dems responsible for a few Moveon hot heads, or of all Reps for a few hot heads, is ALSO part of the dynamic of demonization.
Cmon people, we're all Americans. And pretty much all for democracy. Take a deep breath. Take a walk. Whoever wins, we'll still have a country, to build and defend, even if we differ in how to do it.
#10
"..a dem HQ in Ohio was burglarized.."
Somehow I wouldn't put it past the Donks to have self inflicted this themselves. Having said that McAuliffe's response last week to a college group was to make sure no Bush/Cheney signs were around. The Donks have already layed the ground rles on how they will deal with the opposition. Their minions now carry out the orders.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
10/13/2004 11:52
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#11
I agree, Liberalhawk. What's going on is not mainstream, but fringe groups. The point I was trying to make is it SEEMS that the more violent attacks have been against the Republicans. This may well change as fringe people become more angry and want revenge. That's something I am concerned about. I'm not accusing the Democrats of wrong-doing here but clearly the AFL/CIO has started a program of intimidation at Republican offices.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
10/13/2004 11:59
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#12
The other problem is that among the Democrat elite, the moonbat fringe is becoming the mainstream.
Exhibit A: Michael Moore in a place of honor at the DNC.
Exhibit B: Terry McAwful's many invocations of Haliburton conspiracy theory.
Exhibit C: Democratic Underground and DailyKos, any thread, any day.
I could go on, but you get the point. I feel sorry for the vast majority of Dems, who are decent and reasonable people: my parents, Zell Miller, Liberalhawk, Joe Lieberman. Your party is going nuts before your very eyes.
Posted by: Mike ||
10/13/2004 12:35
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Mike has it right. Elevating an imbecilic conspiracy-monger such as Mikey Boy to center stage was a sure sign that the Dem hierarchy sees electoral gold in embracing the Kos/DU idiotarian far left. Perhaps they're just scared, but I will not and cannot vote Democratic again until I see Dems administer Sister Souljah smackdowns to Mikey and the Kos idiots.
Israel Police will most likely restrict the number of Islamic worshipers permitted onto the Temple Mount this Friday, the first Friday of Ramadan. The reason is the documented structural compromise of the area known as Solomon's Stables. The situation is the result of illegal Wakf construction on the Temple Mount, which has weakened the are and left it in a precarious state. Police were warned by engineers that too many persons in the area may result in catastrophe, a total collapse of the area. (Over the years the Muslims would not stop the foolish construction, nor pay attention to many Israeli warnings about Muslim triggered weakening of one portion of the Temple Mount area which will effect the entire Mount. One medium size earthquake could bring about a pile of rubble on the Muslim side of the Temple Mount plus cause general damage. The Muslim leaders in turn will naturaly blame 'Israel' for the earthquake's resulting damage. With these people one can not win either way.)
Wakf Authority officials reject the engineering assessment, and are accusing Israel of seeking to limit the number of worshipers attending Ramadan services. Wakf officials insist Jordanian engineers have inspected the area and have found it to be structurally sound. Police will probably restrict the number of visitors to the Mount on Friday to 50,000-60,000. (That remains very large mob of Jihad driven trouble makers)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
4:08:57 AM ||
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#1
I think I'll stock up on water before Friday...just in case :-)
#2
I would not restrict the number of mooselimbs allowed,they apparently know better, so let's test who's right.
Maybe... I would restrict the number to a hefty margin above the number assumed to trigger structural damage.
Plausible ya know what...
About 700,000 Colombians have taken part in nationwide protests against President Alvaro Uribe. (Uribe is a man who has been working closely with the White House countering Colombian narco-leftist terrorists, and making considerable headway, thus the strike.)
Demonstrators came from trade unions, civic groups and opposition parties, all complaining about different things. Their banners were directed against unemployment, Mr Uribe's plans to raise taxes and to change the constitution to allow for his re-election. Hospitals in many cities were only offering emergency services and law courts were closed. Many classes across the country were cancelled as teachers joined the protest.
The root of the discontent is economic, even though the economy is growing. The growth of the security forces to cope with the rebels has come at a cost. Taxes have been raised, but the government needs still more and with half of the population living in poverty, many are struggling to make ends meet. Mr Uribe is in a tight spot. The fiscal deficit is climbing, but his security policy needs more money to consolidate the gains in combating the violence.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
3:57:15 AM ||
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An Albanian town had to call in police and hunters after a pack of 200 stray mountain dogs attacked at least nine people. Headed by a clearly identifiable leader, the snarling pack overran the main street of the small northern town of Mamurras, its mayor said on Wednesday. "Even in the movies I have never seen a horde of 200 stray dogs from the mountains attacking people in the middle of a town," Anton Frroku said on Wednesday. He said the dogs bit at least nine people, aged from 20 to 60, dragging them to the ground and inflicting serious wounds. "I was going to a cafe when the pack of dogs attacked and bit me. They kept biting and I fell to the ground," 32-year-old Agim Laku told News24 television. People threw stones to break up the pack. Police and hunters killed 20 dogs, including the leader.
#7
Damn--I love animals, but if 200 wild dogs attacked my town I'd be be out there with every gun I own comparing results! Shotgun vs. long gun vs. pistol, hollowpoint vs. FMJ vs. shot, etc.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 20:19
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U.S. troops went on the offensive from the gates of Baghdad to the Syrian border Tuesday, pounding Sunni insurgent positions from the air and supporting Iraqi soldiers in raids on mosques suspected of harboring extremists. American and Iraqi forces launched the operations ahead of Ramadan, expected to start at week's end, in an apparent attempt at preventing a repeat of the insurgent violence that took place at the start of last year's Muslim holy month.
Clashes broke out in a string of militant strongholds from Fallujah, 40 miles west of Baghdad, northward along the Euphrates Valley to the Syrian border town of Qaim -- all major conflict areas. Some of the sharpest exchanges took place in Hit, 90 miles northwest of Baghdad, where residents and hospital officials said U.S. aircraft attacked two sites, killing two people and wounding five. The U.S. command had no comment. U.S. helicopters fired on a mosque in Hit on Monday and set it ablaze after the military said insurgents opened fire on Marines from the sanctuary. Scattered clashes were reported overnight, killing at least two Iraqis and wounding 15, hospital official said.
Insurgents attacked an Iraqi National Guard outpost east of Qaim Tuesday, the U.S. military said. The local hospital reported 15 to 20 people were killed. Seventy miles west of Baghdad, Iraqi troops backed by U.S. soldiers and Marines raided seven mosques in the Sunni insurgent stronghold of Ramadi, arresting a locally prominent member of a clerical association and three other people. They also seized bomb-making materials and "insurgent propaganda" in the mosques, U.S. officials said.
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
3:45:40 AM ||
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#1
No, no, no. BusHitler told them to stop the attacks before the election. Can't anybody get the meme of the day correct?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 9:14
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A radical British Muslim group that has noisily backed Osama bin Laden has shut down, calling on all Muslims to unite against a "global crusade". Al Muhajiroun, led by radical cleric Omar Bakri, said it had disbanded to encourage Muslims to give up political groupings. "There is no need any more for al Muhajiroun. Basically, the Muslims are uniting together under the banner of all those people who are following the messenger of Islam, Muhammed," Bakri's deputy, Anjem Choudary, told Reuters. "We find that Muslims need to shed their party banners and unite in order to defend the lives of Muslims against this global crusade," he said.
The organisation, which called for an Islamic state in Britain and praised al Qaeda leader bin Laden, has long been a prominent target of tabloid newspapers. It received widespread press coverage for calling conferences lauding the hijackers in the September 11 2001 attacks on the United States as "the magnificent 19", although the conferences were cancelled at the last minute. Bakri has frequently been compared to two other radical clerics, Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza al-Masri, both jailed in anti-terrorism cases. Police have closely monitored him but never charged him with any crime.
It was never clear how big the group's following was, but its high public profile worried mainstream UK Muslim groups, afraid of a backlash against a community of nearly two million Muslims in the country. "They will not be missed," said Inaya Bunglawala, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, the largest group representing Muslims. "Al Muhajiroun has been the focus of a lot of anger in the Muslim community because it is the ordinary Muslim who has to face the brunt of the backlash because of their antics." But he added that he did not expect Britain has heard the last from Bakri. "I'll treat this statement with some caution, based on past experience. I'll be surprised if he quietly walks off into the sunset never to be seen again. I'm sure pretty soon it will become apparent what game they are playing at."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
3:44:46 PM ||
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Salem Hameed has lived in his tin-and-wood hut at the foot of the red mountain range for most of his 42 years. Asked where he's from, his answer is not Egypt or Sinai or Taba, but al-Karadma -- the name of his clan. Many Bedouins on the Sinai Peninsula are shedding their historically nomadic ways, like Hameed, whose desert wandering always takes him back to his hut for the nearby water and electricity -- and now for his television set. They are now more likely to be running hotels, groceries or souvenir shops than herding goats. But their loyalty remains to tribe over country and, along with their intimate knowledge of the desert, that makes them natural suspects in drug-running, people-smuggling and weapons trafficking -- and now in three deadly car bombings targeting Israeli tourists.
No formal arrests have been made in the attacks, which killed at least 34 people, including Egyptians, Israelis, two Italians and a Russian, as well as others whose nationalities have yet to be determined. They came at the end of a Jewish holiday, when thousands of Israelis were vacationing in the area. But investigators have said about 30 Bedouins were detained for questioning shortly after the attacks. One of them has acknowledged selling explosives that could have been used in the strikes, investigators told The Associated Press.
Hameed, who works as a guard at a government-operated fuel station, said some Bedouins work in illicit trades, but that others work with the government, either as informers or in posts like his. Harming tourism in Sinai benefits none of them, he said. A Bedouin, he said, "can sell a cigarette of marijuana. This won't bother the government, it is to earn a living. But something that harmful, no. It has ruined many (Bedouins') homes."
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
3:42:08 AM ||
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by Oliver North
To listen to John Kerry explain his position(s) on Iraq is to submit oneself to mental torture.
Kerry explained that President Bush embarked upon a grand diversion from the War on Terror -- a grand diversion that Kerry said he would continue.
Bush, Kerry says, made a "colossal error of judgment" on Iraq -- a "colossal error of judgment" that Kerry voted to support. Kerry accused the president of alienating our allies -- i.e., the French and Germans -- only to then trash our staunchest allies in the War on Terror.
Kerry accused Bush of having a "go-it-alone" attitude that he employed to arrogantly attack Saddam Hussein instead of allowing the United Nations to direct America's national security. His running mate, John Edwards, joined the attack during his debate with Vice President Dick Cheney, alleging that Operation Iraqi Freedom is a catastrophic failure and a military operation totally unrelated to the War on Terror.
These guys could use two front row seats at a good motivational seminar. They clearly don't understand the tenets of leadership when they change their positions as often as they do. They don't understand the effect their carping criticisms have on the troops on the ground and their families back home when they charge that Americans are dying for a mistake.
They don't understand the nature of warfare or the nature of this enemy when they suggest that the War on Terror can be neatly wrapped up in a matter of months. The United States will be engaged in a prolonged offensive against terrorists at home and abroad for many years. That offensive is, and will continue to be, fought with military, diplomatic, legal, financial, law enforcement and homeland security efforts.
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
3:35:18 AM ||
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#1
Ollie North... there's a beacon of light in a dark world...
State Rep. Craig Fitzhugh (D-TN): "Democrats in a race for a state House seat in District 82, are circulating a flyer that shows a retarded child with President Bush's face running in a track race. The headline says: 'Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics: Even If You Win, You're Still Retarded.' The flyer is being distributed by Democrat Craig Fitzhugh." (Tradition Values Coalition Website, "Tennessee Democrats Compare Republicans To Special Olympics Children."
OK. Lets take a look at this. Not only is this cruel to the retarded kids who participate in the Special Olympics, but show the typical lack of class of all liberals.
This time it's personal. My cousin Shirley married an Australian Goverment bureaucrat. She moved to Australia, and they had 3 kids. The oldest daughter, who is autistic, participated in the Special Olympics there. In fact she participated the Paralympics held in Atlanta in 1996 and Sydney in 2000, and won medals. So I get a little pissed when I see shit like this.
#3
I guess today is a Bush: the retarded monkey boy day. Which means tomorrow will be a Bush: evil genius puppetmaster on his way to enslaving the world day.
Talk about a comeback kid.
#8
Dave - if this crap keeps up, I might too but it won't be regulation size (how wide is a normal hallway anyway?) and certainly won't be authorized!!!
#11
Talk about brain trusts... that's exactly what you want to do on the day of a presidential debate - suggest your opponent is retarded. Way to reduce expectations, you geniuses, you.
Hey, I'm heading out to get some PA volunteer time right after this. See y'all tomorrow.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
10/13/2004 16:49
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#12
Tennessee Legislature
State Representative Craig Fitzhugh (D.-Ripley)
House District 82
#15
I called Rep Fitzhugh's office and his support staff said that he had nothing to do with the ad and will issue a press release denouncing it within the next hour.
#16
I am from Tennessee. I hope that people don't judge the rest of us by this pea brain idiot. Tennessee really is a great place. The billboard was really despicable. The only thing good that can be said is that such sleaze will drive voters towards "W."
Posted by: A. Bungfodder ||
10/13/2004 19:27
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#17
Don't worry Bungfodder--we get it.
The guy who did this is dispicable and, unfortunately, all too typical of many who populate the Democratic party these days.
P.S. Kerry sucked tonight. "W" ruled--except on legal "reform." I think insurance companies have pulled the wool over the Republicans' eyes on that one. (Just a for instance--suppose the retarded kid, whose picture was stolen (above), had had his brain damaged by a doctor's negligance. The kid and his family ought to be able to sue for loss of quality of life and for needed medical care throughout the boy's lifespan. The insurance companies take the risk as businesses, per se. That's their choice. And the doctors who malpractice SHOULD have higher insurance rates. Duh.)
Note that Rooters calls it Falluja.
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's interim prime minister warned the rebel-held city of Falluja on Wednesday it must hand over foreign militants, including America's top enemy in Iraq, or face a major operation to root them out. More at link.
Posted by: BA ||
10/13/2004
2:55:11 PM ||
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#1
"Root them out"? Please. The only thing that's going to happen is more negotiating.
THIS SOUNDS LIKE GOOD NEWS: "BAGHDAD, Oct. 12 -- Local insurgents in the city of Fallujah are turning against the foreign fighters who have been their allies in the rebellion that has held the U.S. military at bay in parts of Iraq's Sunni Muslim heartland, according to Fallujah residents, insurgent leaders and Iraqi and U.S. officials. . . . "If the Arabs will not leave willingly, we will make them leave by force," said Jamal Adnan, a taxi driver who left his house in Fallujah's Shurta neighborhood a month ago after the house next door was bombed by U.S. aircraft targeting foreign insurgents. . . . Several local leaders of the insurgency say they, too, want to expel the foreigners, whom they scorn as terrorists. They heap particular contempt on Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian whose Monotheism and Jihad group has asserted responsibility for many of the deadliest attacks across Iraq, including videotaped beheadings." (Emphasis mine)
Germany might deploy troops in Iraq if conditions there change, Peter Struck, the German defence minister, indicated on Tuesday in a gesture that appears to provide backing for John Kerry, the US Democratic presidential challenger. In an interview with the Financial Times, Mr Struck departed from his government's resolve not to send troops to Iraq under any circumstances, saying: "At present I rule out the deployment of German troops in Iraq. In general, however, there is no one who can predict developments in Iraq in such a way that he could make a such a binding statement [about the future]."
Posted by: True German Ally ||
10/13/2004
2:51:46 AM ||
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#1
Very, very interesting.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004 3:29
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#2
Don't hold your breath. That being said, I strongly suspect Germany has been extremely helpful under the table. I wonder how much of the anti-war stance has been for public consumption?
Posted by: N guard ||
10/13/2004 7:22
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#3
Yesterday on CSPAN radio i heard the French ambassador saying they would NOT send troops to Iraq, because more foreign troops would make things worse, making it more of an occupation, whats best is to train Iraqis. Which kind of misses John Kerrys point, which is that when French (or German) troops come in, US troop levels would go down. I think France and Germany are caught between a rock and hard place - the desire to help Kerry, who i think they do prefer of Dubya, versus their domestic (and esp in the case of France, international) reasons to stay out of Iraq.
Like N guard, i wont be holding my breath. But i do find the maneuvering interesting. Thanks for the info, TGA.
#6
John Edwards, in an answer on Russert's(?) show, mentioned that (paraphrasing): 1) the French and Germans might come in if the Iraqis forces had been trained. 2)The US should make training Irqis a priority.
Don't know if the two comments were independent or Struck built on to Edward's, but it is an interesting coincidence.
What Struck said was a sort of "Versuchsballon" (test balloon), to test German public opinion. That's why he chose the Financial Times, to let it slowly filter in. Should there be a public outcry... well he left himself all the wiggle room he needs and can always claim to have been "quoted out of context". Should the outcry be moderate (it has been for now), get ready for the next move.
Of course, don't hold your breath. But German troops would never have played a major role in Iraq, even with a most Bush-friendly Germany. Thios was always about symbolics (Kerry foolishly misses that point.
What is Struck's message about? Germany wants a stable Iraq, Germany doesn't want a failed Iraq just to weaken the U.S. (which is what the French want). Of course Germany also wants its part in the reconstruction.
Germany has already pledged to do more for the stability in the Middle East, it will do more in Afghanistan and it will try to help in Iraq.
Germany doesn't believe in ideology and vain multipolar dreams, it believes in Realpolitik.
#10
TGA I don't expect that Germany do much. Germany doesn't have the military structure to help much at all. It would be nice if German would put some more visable distance between France and Germany on this issue. As you note all France is interested in is damaging the United States. Germany needs to point this out in public. France can't retailate is needs German markets.
#11
TGA's probably right, but frankly, this is far too little, far too late, and I seriously doubt that anyone in America really cares anymore. The truly critical actions in Iraq are underway right now in Fallujah, Ramalla etc. What France or Germany might do many months from now with a handful fo troops simply is of no consequence to anyone besides the Kerry campaign spinners.
#17
TGA, Being from California under Gray-out Davis, I can sympathize. We only waited about 6 months to decide it made a mistake and bring in the Governator. Perhaps Germany should hold a recall and start a bidding war.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 19:43
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#18
You were lucky to have this choice in California. And from what I hear Arnie has exceeded any expectations, right?
Unfortunately the German opposition isn't looking very well, either.
#21
I don't expect that Germany do much. Germany doesn't have the military structure to help much at all
True enough if you mean deployable troops and equipment. But there were German troops protecting bases in Germany and Schroeder made a big point of announcing they would be withdrawn - in order not to take any pressure off of the US army's strength elsewhere.
Anyone know how that has played out?
Frankly, I'm not sure that existing German troops would in fact respond well in a combat situation ... events in e.g. the Balkans suggest they wouldn't do the job when the job needed doing if conflict was involved - as it tends to be on occasion, even in peacekeeping roles.
Note: I'm not saying that with glee, but rather with resignation.
Posted by: Robin Burk ||
10/13/2004 20:39
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#22
Yup. Right. Totenkopf Division being transferred from the Eastern Front I suppose...
#23
RB, It is astounding to me that fighting ability of the German soldier is so low. How, when and why did that happen?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 20:47
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#24
TGA - Arnie has far exceeded expectations and would win re-election by 70% vote, I can assure you. Like other politicians (hint, hint) he has been misunderestimated
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2004 21:40
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#25
Arnie offers the combination of social liberalism and fiscal intelligence, combined with a healthy disdain for the reactionary elements in both parties (Dem unions + trial lawyers, Repub fundamentalists), that is the path to political dominance in this country.
A Giuliani/Schwarzennegerite Republican party would command 60%+ of the national popular vote and at least 300 electoral college votes.
U.S. security officials are investigating a recent intelligence report that a group of 25 Chechen terrorists illegally entered the United States from Mexico in July. The Chechen group is suspected of having links to Islamist terrorists seeking to separate the southern enclave of Chechnya from Russia, according to officials familiar with intelligence reports. Members of the group, said to be wearing backpacks, secretly traveled to northern Mexico and crossed into a mountainous part of Arizona that is difficult for U.S. border security agents to monitor, said officials speaking on the condition of anonymity. The intelligence report was supplied to the U.S. government in late August or early September and was based on information from an intelligence source that has been proved reliable in other instances, one official said.
A second U.S. official said the report is being investigated, but said it could not be determined whether the group of Chechens actually entered the country, as the intelligence source reported. "We don't know whether or not that report is true," this official said. A spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection confirmed that the intelligence report was provided by another government agency, but said Border Patrol agents were unable to verify its accuracy. It could not be learned whether the reported infiltration is related to the recent Education Department warning to school officials to examine security in the aftermath of the attack last month by pro-Chechnya Muslim terrorists on a school in Russia, in which more than 300 people were killed and some 700 wounded. U.S. officials believe the Beslan terrorists included some al Qaeda-linked foreign terrorists.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:51:25 AM ||
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The Buffoonish Sen Mark Dayton Dimecrat of Minnesota was probably afraid of this, so he evacuated DC.
His ancestor, Johnathon Dayton, who signed the Declaration of Independence is probably spinning in his grave at his wayward descendent.
Sen Dodo Dayton is a long, long, long way away from, "Pledging his life, fortune, and sacred honor" by running like a coward, and giving in to these Islamofacist whack jobs.
"Nope. Nope. Just a figment of your imagination. Go back to sleep."
Yemen's ruling People General Congress party said Tuesday the al-Qaida network does not exist in Yemen, brushing aside Israeli accusations as "nonsense." The party said on its Web Site "no dormant or non-dormant cells existed in the country," stressing Yemen is an international partner in the war against terrorism.
"Just a few nuisance attacks here and there, nothing to speak of, really..."
It was responding to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's claims al-Qaida activists in Yemen and Saudi Arabia could be behind the bombings of Taba, in which dozens were killed and wounded. Sharon said he ordered the Israeli intelligence, Mossad, to dispatch agents to Yemen and Saudi to liquidate the alleged al-Qaida operatives. "These are stupid and nonsense allegations," the ruling Yemeni party said in a statement. "These leaks and claims are too light and unreasonable to be taken seriously, especially since Yemen is a partner in the international war on terrorism and facts prove that no cells for the evil al-Qaida network exist in Yemen," the statement added. "Such Israeli allegations cannot shake Yemen's international standing especially that it is a country that has suffered from terrorism, combated the evil and defeated it."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:46:54 AM ||
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Al-Qaeda ut Jihaad translates: Base of Holy-War. That group was always an emulation movement, which wanted to build a superstructure on the base, which began in 1989 mosque consultations among Abdullah Azzam, Osama bin Laden and the rest. They are not well connected, but cells dedicated to the al-Qaeda ideology - as stated in the "Fatwah Against Jews and Crusaders" - are everywhere. I believe that most members of the Muslim Students Association, are al-Qaeda supporters and members. Genocide of 5,000,000 Israeli Jews has general support among Muslim Americans of Arab-Pakistan background. I advocate shooting on sight, anyone proven to have either supported or participated in terrorism.
A senior Russian lawmaker said Tuesday that there is firm evidence showing that radical Islamic organizations, including Al-Qaida, are financing Chechen militants,Itar-Tass news agency reported. Anatoly Kulikov, deputy chairman of the security committee of the State Duma, the lower house of Russian parliament, also said many terrorists operating in Russia's breakaway republic of Chechnya come from the Middle East, Europe and North America. However, Western countries still refrain from branding Chechen terrorism as a branch of international terrorist networks, Kulikov said, complaining that "none of our partners in the international anti-terrorist coalition have extradited to Russia the criminals who have stained their hands with the blood of hundreds of innocent people."
He urged the West to discard the erroneous belief that regional and international terrorists act on parallel agendas, saying "they are just elements of a single chain, and the situation in Chechnya proves it." "Chechnya has turned into a stumbling block on the way to closer cooperation between Russia and the West," Kulikov said, adding that the West's position on the Chechen issue exerts a crucial impact on Russia's role in the international anti-terrorist coalition and Russian relations with the West.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:45:08 AM ||
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WTH?
said many terrorists operating in Russiaâs breakaway republic of Chechnya come from the Middle East, Europe and North America.
However, Western countries still refrain from branding Chechen terrorism as a branch of international terrorist networks, Kulikovsaid, complaining that "none of our partners in the international anti-terrorist coalition have extradited to Russia the criminals who have stained their hands with the blood of hundreds of innocent people."
The Bush-Cheney campaign has created a hot line for victims of voter intimidation after a spate of "violence and vandalism" at campaign offices nationwide. The hot line effectively serves as an answering machine and instructs callers to leave a message about any incidents of "intimidation or harassment" or "destruction of Bush-Cheney property." The number is 888/303-7125.
The hot line comes on the heels of accusations by the campaign against the nation's largest labor union, the AFL-CIO, of voter-intimidation tactics, including the storming of a state Republican Party office in Orlando, Fla... On Monday, Bush-Cheney campaign Chairman Marc Racicot wrote a letter to AFL-CIO President John Sweeney, warning him: "We will hold you and your organization accountable for the actions of your members." The letter charged that the AFL-CIO's Oct. 5 demonstrations were part of "a national strategy" to protest at more than a dozen Bush-Cheney and Republican Party headquarters offices around the nation. "In many locations protesters attempted to enter, or entered, campaign or party facilities," the letter says, adding that in Orlando, "protesters forced their way into the facility, fracturing the arm of one staffer, and vandalized the office." AFL-CIO spokeswoman Lane Windham said incidents of break-ins or vandalism were "completely unrelated" to the Oct. 5 demonstrations ... A recent search of archived news reports nationwide indicated a higher number of reports during the past few months compared with the same periods during the 2000 and 1996 campaigns. emphasis mine
Posted by: trailing wife ||
10/13/2004
2:44:46 AM ||
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Pix : Hat Tip M. Drudge
Getting a little smug isn't he?
Biking without a helmet, on his cell phone, no knee pads on bare knees, and with a pair of aviator shades on!
#7
LH #4 Only that every time there is one of these break-ins the perps are AFL-CIO thugs. Like the guy who broke the Bush supporters arm at a rally a month or two ago. And the choking picture.
In a big loss, the AFL-CIO could pay a step price in subsequent legislation. That was the message between the lines to Sweeney.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 11:19
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Mrs D
1. where i live kids have to wear helmets in the law. Adults dont have to
2. I think wearing helmets is a good idea. But there is disagreement. I am simply reporting that.
3. As for my kids, it dont matter what I think. MRS liberal hawk is the law, and thats THAT.
4. Mrs D since youre taking this seriously. Hed have to be damned good to cycle and talk on the phone at the same time. Presumably he is just about stopped, and is coasting along, from one stop to another a couple of feet away. Thats why his helmet is off.
#9
I voted this weekend and I was forced to use a #2 pencil and fill in squares! I bet the rich counties get to fill in ovals or maybe circles. Everyone knows it's easier to make a mistake when you are filling in squares. Just another example of the man trying to keep us middle class working stiffs down.
#15
did they do the break in at the Dem HQ in Ohio?
(Because one incident excuses a campaign of violence and fraud.)
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2004 12:49
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I didnt say anything excuses anything, but that the fact that there are several acts of violence associated with protests doesnt mean the folks who organized the protests are responsible for the violence. I want evidence before accusations. I wont hold Halliburton guilty without evidence, ive spent time on the phone with friends shooting down anti-Bush conspiracy theories, and arguing against the lies of Mike Moore. But I wont accept unprovene conspiracies from the other side either.
Congrats, however to RC. Just when i think im gonna have to vote for Bush, cause of all the Moveon lunies, he convinces me that maybe I shouldnt.
#17
oh an GC - both my parents were union members. My dad did the same job when he was a member, when he was a non-member, and when he was in business himself.
If you guys dont want the votes of union members, you should say so.
And no one on either side should use violence. This is America.
Pardon me for seeing a half dozen "protests" turn violent, the same exact way in locations hundreds of miles from each other and seeing a pattern. Pardon me for not seeing how a break-in (which could be a run-of-the-mill burglary) in Toledo could have anything at all to do with AFL/CIO thugs attacking and assaulting campaign workers.
Pardon me for getting a strong whiff of "tu quoque" in your mention of the Toledo burglary.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2004 13:06
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"BIGTIME! I WISH one of those union thugs would lay a hand on me. I'd beat him into the fucking dirt. BRING IT ON, afl-cio punks.....come to Texas."
I'm hoping the same thing, except I have a CCW, and it is S&W .40's they'll be catching.
Two in the chest and one in the head...
Mr. P.
Posted by: Mr. Peabody ||
10/13/2004 13:14
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"BIGTIME! I WISH one of those union thugs would lay a hand on me. I'd beat him into the fucking dirt. BRING IT ON, afl-cio punks.....come to Texas."
I'm hoping the same thing, except I have a CCW, and it is S&W .40's they'll be catching.
Two in the chest and one in the head...
Mr. P.
Posted by: Mr. Peabody ||
10/13/2004 13:15
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#21
My apologies for the double post!
Mr. P.
Posted by: Mr. Peabody ||
10/13/2004 13:17
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Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2004 14:19
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Big Ed and Bombarama: Gotta love those gloves, too.
Re the office take overs. Yeah, LH, I'd like to see us all be good Americans and respect each other, etc. But 20 office attacks at the same time? I'm getting pretty sick of it, and I'm one of the most patient and tolerant folks walking the streets. I hate to say it, since this argument can be used ad nauseum, but now's the time: What would MSM say if it had been Bushies attacking Dem offices? Would Hil be up on the tube saying I told you so (re VRWC)? Kos? Marshall? NYT? You bet they would. And I'd be ashamed to admit that my guy's party had gone over the top and would expect retribution at the ballot box. Why can't they?
Posted by: chicago mike ||
10/13/2004 14:21
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Hey, remember there are lots of union members who have NO CHOICE about joining a union if they want to get/keep a job! It's the union "leadership" that's the problem, not the working stiffs! Or, at least, not 100% of the working stiffs!
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 14:31
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#26
Enforce Beck! - with prison time for union thieves who steal dues for their PACs, and things will improve
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2004 14:50
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Amen Dar! I are a Union member but I donât support these goon tactics and in fact I am a registered Republican. About 40% of my union are registered Republicans. These guys are probably (I donât know) some of the office or party heavies. If they are like my union, there are certain people who act like idiots by screaming at rallies and at politicians. I canât see a Rank/File employee putting their job in jeopardy for the Union. FYI I have not been asked to raid any Republican (or Democratic) offices, if I were asked I would report them to the police.
#28
Unions suck, BIGTIME! I WISH one of those union thugs would lay a hand on me. I'd beat him into the fucking dirt. BRING IT ON, afl-cio punks.....come to Texas.
I've always felt that anyone who belongs to a union is a stupid, incompetent idiot who can't hold a job any other way.
The Central Intelligence Agency runs a top secret interrogation facility in Jordan, where at least 11 detainees who are considered Al-Qaida's most senior cadre are being held, Haaretz has learned from international intelligence sources. Since the war in Afghanistan ended three years ago, reports spoke of these special detainees being held outside the United States, but no location was mentioned. A report on these prisoners issued yesterday by the Human Rights Watch organization claims they are being held somewhere so secret that U.S. President George Bush asked the CIA heads not to report it to him.
Haaretz's international intelligence sources are considered experts in surveillance and analysis of Al-Qaida and are involved in interrogating the detainees. Most of the Al-Qaida detainees who were arrested in Afghanistan in the course of the war or its aftermath were transfered to the American base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. A minority were held in Pakistan, where some had been picked up, and were later moved to Jordan. It is not known where precisely in the Hashemite kingdom they are being held, but they are thought to be at a secret facility belonging to Jordanian intelligence or at a secret base. Their detention outside the U.S. enables CIA interrogators to apply interrogation methods that are banned by U.S. law, and to do so in a country where cooperation with the Americans is particularly close, thereby reducing the danger of leaks.
According to the Human Rights Watch report, the CIA was granted special permission by the U.S. law enforcement authorities to operate "other laws" at the secret facility with regard to interrogation methods. Detainees are subjected to physical and psychological pressure that includes the use of simulated drowning, loud music, sleep deprivation, and sensory deprivation.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:44:06 AM ||
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We catch 'em... They cook 'em.
These 'prisoners' aren't on US soil. They were captured and handed over to our friends in Jordan to interrogate.
Where's the down side?
Jack.
Posted by: Jack Deth ||
10/13/2004 3:00
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#2 - I'm thinking that option might be on the table. If the Budweiser Clydesdales suddenly have an overseas tour... hey, I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
#7
The report contends that American operatives detained Khalid Sheikh Mohammedâs children to serve as "hostages" through which to pressure their father into cooperating
#8
I forget what politician said it but: âIf torturing these terrorists will save one American life, then I have only this advise: Red is positive and Black is negative.â What was the Human Rights Watch organizationâs take on the beheading of the civilians in Iraq? Well? I thought so. Proceed with the electrodes gentleman.
Archibishop Chaput on the NYT front page today (see my other post) - and then I just got this in email. Seems the RNC doesnt miss a thing these days: this was very quick.
Dear Senator Kerry,
Shame on you.
During the last Presidential debate you invoked your Catholic upbringing to defend your support for taxpayer-funded abortion and partial-birth abortion.
Your own words from the debate, Senator:
"I respect the belief about life and when it begins. I'm a Catholic, raised a Catholic."
If that were so Senator, your 20-year record wouldn't be a tale of disrespect for and disbelief in the sanctity of life. Here is what you have said and done when a national television audience wasn't watching:
-Just last week, you called the Catholic Church's teaching on the sanctity of life "extreme right-wing ideology";
-You've said "Abortions need to be moved out of the fringes of medicine and into the mainstream of medical practice;"
-In 1994's Congressional Record you stated that you would "vote against any restrictions on age, consent, funding restrictions, or any law to limit access to abortion;"
-You voted against the Partial Birth Abortion Ban six times, despite the fact that the ban included an exception for the life of the mother;
-You voted 25 times in favor of using taxpayer dollars to fund abortions.
Senator Kerry, we don't judge you on the grounds of your faith, but on the basis of your actions.
I pledge to you that we will work tirelessly for the next 21 days to hold you accountable to your record. We will not allow you to confuse and deceive Catholic voters about the issues that matter most to us.
As President George W. Bush said about your record during the last debate: "You can run but you can't hide."
Sincerely,
Martin Gillespie
Director of Catholic Outreach
Republican National Committee
Why John Kerry is Wrong for Catholics: http://www.kerrywrongforcatholics.com
Become a Catholic Team Leader today! http://www.catholicteamleader.com
Posted by: OldSpook ||
10/13/2004
2:42:56 AM ||
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All four bombers who attacked Egyptian Red Sea resorts frequented by Israelis last week escaped on foot minutes before their vehicles exploded, Egyptian government newspaper al-Ahram has reported. The bombers used three vehicles -- a Peugeot 504 station wagon, a small Nissan delivery vehicle and a pick-up truck in which the explosives were hidden under crates of vegetables, the newspaper said on Wednesday, quoting a senior security official. The explosions, at the Hilton hotel at Taba on the Israeli border and at two holiday camps further south, killed 33 or 34 people, according to conflicting sources, including at least 12 Israelis. The other victims were Egyptians, two Italians, a Russian and several who have not yet been identified.
Al-Ahram said all the vehicles came from within Egypt, one from the Greater Cairo area but it did give any information about the identity or nationality of the bombers. The newspaper said the attack bore the hallmarks of an operation by the al Qaeda organisation and was similar to attacks on the HSBC bank in Istanbul last November and at the JW Marriott hotel in Jakarta in August 2003. But the fact the bombers abandoned their vehicles and ran away rules out suicide attacks -- an element assumed by some of the experts who pointed the finger at al Qaeda.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:39:12 AM ||
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They've been there for thousands of years. I guess they will be.
When Mohamed Latey shot dead the local police lieutenant and stole his truck, he believed he was fighting for the freedom of his fellow nomads in the Sahara. It was the height of the Tuareg rebellion in the early 1990s, a four-year insurgency by a pale-skinned minority in remote northern Niger who felt sidelined and persecuted by a black elite governing from a capital 1,000 km away. Its fighters have long since handed over their mortars, anti-tank mines and grenade launchers, but resentment is still strong in a region synonymous with banditry and smuggling. "The state hasn't kept its promises, so some ex-fighters decided to go and find money for themselves," said Latey, 31, his face lit by the moon as he poured a glass of sweet tea. "For them, banditry and rebellion are one and the same. Someone who has no money, who has had nothing in his pocket for months, is going to go where he can find some."
The United Nations has tightened travel restrictions for its staff around Agadez, an ancient Saharan trading town, and Niger's army is about to deploy a special U.S.-trained company of 150 soldiers to fight outlaws in the region. Washington fears the history of poverty and rebellion makes fertile recruiting ground for what it says are terrorists. Some see the Sahel region on the southern fringe of the desert as a secondary front in its war on terror, drawing parallels with Afghanistan. "We have noticed patterns of trafficking, illegal activity -- there is potential interaction between various groups," said a senior U.S. official in the capital, Niamey. "Up to this point they have mostly been isolated cases of banditry, but the situation provides the potential for other kinds of action."
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:36:16 AM ||
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A delegation of tribesmen has met the head of a group of al Qaeda-linked militants holding two Chinese engineers hostage in Pakistan, but failed to secure their release, a member of the delegation says. In the Tuesday night talks, kidnap leader Abdullah Mehsud offered to free one of two Pakistanis held with engineers Wang Ende and Wang Peng since Saturday in the remote South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan. But Abdullah, in a separate location from the kidnappers, insisted he would not order the freeing of the Chinese until his demands were met, a source, who did not want to be identified, said on Wednesday. "He did not spell out the demands, but repeated a demand for safe passage for both captors and the captives to join him."
A council of the same Mehsud tribe to which Abdullah belongs and which dispatched the delegation was meeting in the town of Tank near South Waziristan to consider its response, he said. Pakistani officials have said Abdullah has demanded an end to military operations in the semi-autonomous tribal region, where hundreds have died this year in battles between troops and al Qaeda-linked militants, and the freeing of two Uzbek militants. Mehmood Shah, the head of security in the tribal region, said on Tuesday the government hoped for a peaceful solution to the crisis but warned that use of force could not be ruled out.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:34:23 AM ||
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Osama bin Laden's feelings, like his whereabouts, remain a mystery. But if he were to suddenly surface tomorrow to deliver a State of the Jihad speech, it might sound something like this:
"Fellow members of Al Qaeda - Islam is in mortal danger from the West. Americans are the new Mongols, successors to the infidel hordes who sacked Baghdad and other Islamic capitals in the 13th century. They represent both a physical and a spiritual threat, as their materialistic ideology, their emphasis on the individual and the secular, can seduce believers away from the true path of Islam. Jihad is the antidote to this poison. As a real war, it offers an opportunity to strike the infidels. As a state of being, it offers participants a way to prove their worthiness before God."
Three years after the attacks of Sept. 11, the United States is still struggling to identify its main adversaries in the war on terrorism. The US knows their identity, of course. They are the members of Al Qaeda and its associatedjihadist groups around the globe. But knowing who they are, in terms of grasping the way they look at the world, their philosophies, their hopes, and their plans, is another story.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:32:47 AM ||
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I prefer AQ graves to look at.
Posted by: Capt America ||
10/13/2004 8:54
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If we can't have AQ graves, then putting their heads on poles will suffice as well. Hell, you could even take that on the road--I'd pay to see bin Laden on a stick.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 10:51
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Osama bin Ladenâs feelings, like his whereabouts, remain a mystery.
The latest edition (#23) of the Al-Qa'ida-related journal Sawt Al- Jihad includes an article by Abd Al-Rahman Ibn Salem Al-Shamari praising the beheading of an Egyptian citizen in Iraq. The author emphasized that a Muslim is obligated to be loyal to his religion only, and not to his national identity or to his country, and therefore all non-believers are the same, regardless of whether they are Arabs.
"'May your hand be strengthened!' - so said all those who saw the video that showed the slaying of the Egyptian spy in service of the American army in Iraq I mean all those of the true faith. You are wrong if you think that it was only the Egyptian spy who was slain. No, for among those who fell to that happy dagger were a mighty infidel tyranny and an idol who is worshipped instead of Allah; did you not see this as he was slain?!
"A spy has been slain, one spy among others, and the Jihad fighter [who slew him] has come closer to Allah by way of his [the spy's] blood. Yet what is the novelty in this lowly spy whose slaying we have seen these very days? The novelty, and we ask of Allah that there be more [like him], is that a spy has been slain, and this spy looked like an Arab, had an Arab name, and spoke Arabic! The novelty lies in the triumph of the faith in the one God and in the raising of the banner of 'There is no God but Allah' over and above all other allegiances, be they of ethnicity, language, identity, or nationality."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
10/13/2004
2:29:51 AM ||
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Check out the burkha-babe centerfold--you can almost make out an ankle!
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 10:29
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Come closer to Allah - drink the blood of a spy !
I wonder how low they can get.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
10/13/2004 10:49
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Awfully poetical, though. Drunk on language, someone once said.
Go to this website I linked to and enter your email address. You will almost instantaneously receive the name and mailing address of a registered voter in Clark County, Ohio. The Guardian wants you to write a letter to this person to encourage him to vote and let him know how seriously concerned you are about this election!
The Guardian proclaims it is not doing this to encourage support of either candidate, but I think most Rantburgers are quite familiar with the slant of the Guardian's articles and, by projection, its readership.
I don't expect the FEC has any authorization to shut down a foreign newspaper's blatant attempt to influence America's own national election. Is there any recourse available?
I received the name and address of a Mr. L. Gwinn. I'm tempted to write to him not to influence his vote, but to let him know a foreign newspaper readily supplied his contact information to me for that purpose. I can only hope there's some sort of class action he and other Clark Co. voters can take against the Guardian in response.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004
2:25:54 PM ||
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Ah--I didn't see Angie's comment in "Send in the Clowns" below 'til now, but this is certainly something that justifies its own thread.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 14:33
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Dar - This was also noted over at LGF, and many minions (including me) have already received our Clark County name and address.
The scary thing is, the name I got was a woman's, living in an apartment, so I'm guessing she's single.
Nice of the Guardian to support stalkers.
Think I'll write her a nice letter to let her know what they've done.
(BTW, I used my Hotmail address - they say they won't use my e-mail address for anything else, but why should I trust someone who is willing to send a voter's name & address to a complete stranger for the express purpose of influencing that vote by a foreigner?)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/13/2004 15:28
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#6
This could very well be a violation of the EU Data Protection Directive. I don't know how this would apply to data of U.S. citizens, but that's the track I'd investigate. If those U.S. voters have not agreed to having their data divulged by the Guardian, I see trouble.
I would check what the Guardian says about its own privacy policy (which is mandatory to state).
Also the EU has strict spamming laws. They were probably violated, too.
#7
Actually, the ineptitude of the whole effort's pretty funny. If you bother to look at their open letters" to Clark County voters, you realize they've selected three British figures whom almost no one in Clark County would recognize, two of whom, if their true opinions were known, would probably be run out of town on a rail:
1) a blatantly anti-American tory snob who lives in southwest France (John Le Carre/David Cornwell);
2) a viciously snide, patronizing and condescending Oxford prof who champions atheism wherever possible (Richard Dawkins);
3) an aging historical novelist whom no one under the age of 75 reads anymore (Lady Antonia Fraser).
#8
What fun! Its a pity I live at the wrong end of the state, where Republicans pretty much rule. I think Elder Daughter would get a kick out of explaining to her British pen pal exactly why his/her opinions don't matter in the least, and who she thinks Pen Pal should vote for in the next By election. This could actually be very educational for the Guardian readership, once they recover from the experience.
#9
Trailing wife: I'm really unsure that if an average American conservative were suddenly granted citizenship in the UK or France, whether they'd have anyone representative of their views to vote for to begin with.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
10/13/2004 23:22
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#10
If it annoys you so much you could always invade, it's not as if you haven't invaded countries for no good reason before. Damned Right Wing nut jobs!
#12
Careful what you wish for there, Groluck. We all know Bush is an evil genius bent on world domination. Or is today a Bush: Semi retarded money boy day? I always get 'em mixed up.
#14
As an American who hated Bush long before the 2000
election I have a somewhat different mindset towards this forgien newspaper helping Kerry the way they are than most. I am glad they did what they did.
I am glad because worse than having some lonely English guy stalk me would be four more years of Bush. Today a mall security guard here in Chicago told me he could call the police and arrest me for wearing a shirt that said, "If you are not rich Bush won't help you, this Halloween vote the dumb monster out. Vote!"
America is a sick place now. There are drug deals taking place right outside in the mall parking lot but a political shirt is a no no.
A lot of Americans DON'T KNOW the rest of the world hates us, they are too poor or beat down when they get home from work to do anything except sit on the couch and watch sitcoms and news programs paid for by Bush INC.
We need other countries to barge in and say something loud so those who don't realize they've got BushWax in their ears can finally hear what is going on.
A lot of people here have been quietly going insane the last four years.
I have a good feeling about Nov. 2nd
Posted by: Miss America ||
10/30/2004 22:50
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Pakistanis die hitting anti-tank mine with hammer ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Two Pakistani villagers were killed in an explosion on Wednesday when they tried to break open an anti-tank mine with a hammer to use the casing for a stove to fry snacks, police said.
#3
AT mines are much more tasty when broiled in an oven at 500 degrees.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 16:01
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#4
"Latif wanted to use the casing to make a stove to cook pakora, a type of fried snack popular during the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan that starts this weekend, he said."
Wanted to start the holiday off with a bang, huh?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/13/2004 16:01
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#10
Huuuuuwheeee! Dis is what we gonna did. We gonna make a cooker outa uh annie taahnk mahn. But first we drink some whan. Den we separate duh pieces with dis here hammuh lahk dis: ***Tap tap tappity tap***. Notees that Ah be real gentle lahk because of the detenator is sennnnnnnnnnnnnsitive. Garohnteed! Next we drink some wahn to fo'teefie ouah spirits.
***oops, dropped hammer***
KABOOM!
***echos of booms bounce off mountain walls***
And that, folks ends this edition of Cajun Cookin' Afghanistan style. See you next time in Fallujah!
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2004 22:25
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#11
Ah think it would work better with Emeril.
"...and Bam! you add some pepper! And Bam! some minced garlic! And now you set off the mine..."
BAM!
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
10/13/2004 23:24
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And BAM! That aftershock could be felt in Teheran!
Former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamed urged Asia's leaders yesterday to stop "kowtowing" to Westerners, warning continued subservience would lead to domestic uprisings and terrorist attacks. Mahathir, whose anti-Western rhetoric often caused controversy during his 22 years in power, told a university lecture in Singapore on democracy and Asian leadership that Asian minds were still "colonized" by Western influence. "Asian leaders and Asians in general have yet to achieve freedom of thought, freedom to look critically at the ideas and ideologies coming from outside Asia," Mahathir,79 , said. "They are still beholden to the ethnic Europeans. They are still Euro-centric. Many are apologetic because they believe they have fallen far short of the standards that the ethnic Europeans expect of them."
I think his beef is that the ideas and ideologies come from outside Asia. If something works, what does it matter where it originated? And not all the Asian states have fallen far short of the standards that Europeans expect of them. Burma has. Cambodia and Laos have. Vietnam has. Malaysia's done very well so far, thanks to its industrious Chinese and Hindu minorities and the example of Singapore, also a Southeast Asian state. Thailand's doing very well, from what I understand. The enemy of the Philippines and Indonesia isn't foreign ideology, but native corruption. Vietnam and Laos are held in stasis by the adherence to Communism, and Cambodia will be generations recovering from its own peculiar experience with the Commies.
Mahathir said Asians were "waiting for a leader, a credible leader from a credible nation".
"Send us a man on horseback!" Paging General Boulanger!
"Those who kowtow too much to the ethnic Europeans should not be surprised if their people will rise against them, will commit acts of terror, or whatever," he said. "Asian leaders have a choice. Assume and assert true leadership, seize the initiative in terms of ideas and thoughts, and restore self-respect. Or face the humiliation of foreign hegemony and the contempt of their own people."
I'd say ASEAN's done a lot more for Asians than any number of leaders with tin hats. If Asian leaders spent less time worrying about the humiliation of foreign hegemony and more time on the provision of goods and services and infrastructure to their populations, they'd be better off. Like Singapore is.
Mahathir peppered his speech and ensuing question-and-answer session with pro-Asian, anti-Western references, such as: "Asians were civilized long before Europeans were civilized. They should learn from us."
Actually, Malaysia was always pretty much a cultural backwater, much of it peopled by Negrito woods tribes that have mostly been hunted down and killed by the later arrivals. Such Asian civilizations as there were grew up in Java, Bali and Sumatra, Cambodia, present day South Vietnam, and later in Thailand and Burma. All were based on an almalgam of Vedism (predecessor to Hinduism) and Lesser Vehicle Buddhism, with their roots in India. The Javanese, Sumatran and Cham (South Vietnamese) civilizations declined dramatically when Islam was introduced, the Cham civilization actually winking out of existence. Perhaps Mahathir should take a lesson from the Asians himself.
The fact is, the Asians really weren't civilized long before Europeans were. Chinese civilization presumably what he's referring to arose at about the same time as civilization in Iraq and Egypt. Prior to those, and probably influencing them through trade, there were flourishing proto-civilizations in Asia Minor (Catal Huyuk, for instance) and present-day Israel (Jericho, for instance), perhaps dating as far back as 8000 BC. The roots of the Cretan civilization were probably in these areas, with influence from Egypt as well. The Cretan A culture probably dates to around the same time as the Shang and Chin dynasties. The earliest Indic states of Southeast Asia date from around the beginning of the Christian era both the Romans and the Chinese traded with them.
#6
Hey, my pal Jeff Ooi's "Screenshots" website is being threatened with prosecution by the Malay-Sucks government, because a commentator allegedly "blasphemed" the Muslim terror cult. Boycott Malaysian products
If you use the word "tRoLl" your teeth will fall out, if they haven't already.
Should men pay an extra tax, just for being men? The Swedish post-communist Left Party thinks so. The extra tax is meant to compensate women, all of whom are thought structurally oppressed by the male collective. All men are responsible for the actions of some, especially for those who physically abuse their wives and girlfriends. We should all therefore take collective responsibility for the financial costs of male violence toward women.
I'm not joking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>more moonbattery at the link<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Posted by: tipper ||
10/13/2004
2:08:42 AM ||
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#1
This is what happens when you don't have forced institutionalization of the criminally insane.
Russians seeking an unusual two-day break can now go to an army boot camp to be barked at, bullied and subjected to gruelling physical exercises.
A tour operator in the central Russian region of Yaroslavl is arranging the trips for those with 3,000 roubles (about $100) to spare. Battle-hardened veterans from the ongoing war in Chechnya are among the soldiers who are putting the "48-hour recruits" through their paces.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
10/13/2004
2:03:29 AM ||
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#1
How clever! That 3000 roubles will probably feed a regular Army unit for weeks. Perhaps clothe and arm them, too.
#2
Businessmen who are in their 30s and 40s and who are used to leading people are interested in having somebody to command them for a change. They are tired of being constantly in charge," he says.
From the OldSpook I told you so files - I *knew* the Church was going to have to sooner or later condemn Kerry for his 2faced position on embryonic stem-cell research, gay marriage, and most of all, Abortion.
The New York Times reported today that Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, the highest-ranking Roman Catholic prelate in the swing state of Colorado, is applying pressure on faithful Catholics to draw the line on three key moral issues, abortion, same-sex marriage, and stem cell research,—three issues that favor the re-election of President George W. Bush, but don't fare well for Senator John Kerry.
The archbishop explained to a group of Catholic college students gathered in a sports bar here in Colorado, that abortion is "a foundational issue" of the Church. Senator Kerry, he reminded them, despite his front and center Catholicism, has been a consistent proponent of abortion, and so what about his potential influence upon the Supreme Court? "Supreme Court cases can be overturned, right?" he asked. And so why not Roe v. Wade? But it won't happen with Kerry. It may happen with Bush.
In a separate private interview in his residence, Archbishop Chaput said a vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research would be a sin that must be confessed before receiving Communion. "If you vote this way, are you cooperating in evil?" he asked. "And if you know you are cooperating in evil, should you go to confession? The answer is yes."
Archbishop Chaput didn't out and out endorse either candidate. His point is that responsible citizens, responsible Christians look at these issues, see where the candidates truly stand on them, and then vote their conscience, vote for the man of principle, not slick promises. Kerry is doing what generations of Republican politicians could not do: pushing the Catholic Vote out of the Democrat Party.
Posted by: OldSpook ||
10/13/2004
2:00:53 AM ||
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#1
You may not agree with my stand on these issues, and that's OK if you're not a Catholic - you're free to dissent. You are not bound by the rules that I and Kerry are when we voluntarily, willingly accept the Holy Apostolic Catholic Church and its Credo. Christ carried a Cross, and sometimes as believers, we must pick up a cross too (even though Kerry seems to prefer hiring the somone to carry his for him - or to hide from the burdens that Christianity imposes on believers).
The difference between real Catholics and Kerry is lying to you and to himself and to God when he claims to be a good-faith Catholic and supports abortion, funding and harvesting embryos for embryonic stem cell research, and gay marriage.
Kerry is a moral coward on the most impiortant life-and-death issue that a person faces: his essential questions of belief, faith and salvation. He lacks the courage to face the consequences and responsibilities of living Catholci values instead of just mouthing them, and he lacks the honesty to say that he disagrees and will leave the Church over these differences (unlike Martin Luther).
If he cannot be trusted to be honest and couragous with himself, how can we trust him to be honest and courageous with the nation?
#2
In case you are wondering, Chaput is pronounced "Sha-pew" (yes its of French derivation, but I think he's from Nebraska).
I admire a man like Chaput - he has the guts to stand up to those in the Church heirarchy whose faith is about as warm and deep as a puddle when it comes to speaking with moral authority. Chaput exercises the full authority of his postion and the Church to address the faithful on political issues where the Catholic Church has a very clear position and an interest in taking part in the public dialog.
#3
OldSpook, as you know I have some arguments with the Church's history. But I agree with you completely on this one. When one takes up the mantle of belief, one has to actually believe. If not, then fergawdsakes find a better fitting mantle! Labels are not meaningless when one sticks them on one's very own self, after all.
#4
well, Kerry could always choose to stand by his *snicker* convictions and leave the church...publicly
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2004 10:36
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I am a Catholic and I agree that the Archbishop should re-enforce to parishioners what they should consider when voting. I also agree that even if you are a practicing Catholic and an elected official you cannot superimpose your beliefs onto everyone else. However you should at least try to affect change within your scope of authority. Ronald Reagan was definitely against abortion and refused money to the UN for its abortion programs. The true question is whether Kerry would support a challenge to Roe-Vs-Wade? A simple test of faith that I think he would fail. Thatâs why I voted for Bush this weekend (absentee ballot).
#6
Archbishop Chaput said a vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research would be a sin that must be confessed before receiving Communion
a vote for a candidate - IE any candidate, including a Protestant or Jewish candidate, not just an RC candidate. the Archbishop says Catholics who vote the wrong way are in a state of sin. He of course has the right to say that, but its odd that some people who think that its a fine thing for the AB to say that, and its just reprehensible and ignorant to say that this is a problem, seem to have so much difficult with say Ayatollah Sistani telling Iraqis how to vote.
#7
If Kerry has any intelligence or guts, he will state what he believes and accept the consequences. Abortion and gay marriage are not issues that can be straddled. The public has vastly more respect for those who state their beliefs and positions clearly, without patent efforts to fudge the issue.
If he believes that abortion is the taking of innocent life, then he should oppose it. If he believes otherwise, then he should say, as Clinton brilliantly did, that he's committed to making abortion "safe, legal and rare."
As to gay marriage, again, some clarity, Senator: if you oppose civil unions, then oppose civil unions. If you don't oppose them, then say so.
#8
Lex - what if you believe civil unions are properly a state matter, and oppose an amendment to the federal constitution? Some issues SHOULD be fudged - theyre intrinsically complex, and nuance IS appropriate.
In any case, even if i thought he was fudging, theres a reason to cut him slack. Same reason i cut Bush and Rummy slack when theyre accused of not admitting mistakes. Cause if they did so the other side would demagogue the issue. Well the GOP is demagoguing gay marriage, and it aint pretty.
#10
what if you believe civil unions are properly a state matter, and oppose an amendment to the federal constitution? Some issues SHOULD be fudged
That's not fudging, that's simply asserting a straightforward, intellectually honest and respectable defense of the Constitution. If we'd taken that approach to abortion rather than the, er, abortion that was Roe v Wade, we would have arrived at the same result with vastly less division and confusion.
Letting the people and the states decide is by far the most appropriate way to resolve issues arising from the greatest social upheavals in modern history: the change in women's status and the widespread acceptance of homosexuality. Absurd to argue that these new phenomena are somehow up to the Supreme Court's 7 doddering old farts to 2 young fogies to resolve for the rest of us.
Any decent, enlightened politician should be able to articulate this "let the people decide" message.
#11
Question: how many cathoilics in this country agree &/or disagree with church doctrine on abortion and stem cell research? From what I hear, the percentages are the same as non-catholics. So are there 30 or 40 million catholics confessing their difference in belief? I doubt it. Does the church demand they comply? Not that I've heard. This has less to do with individual belief than it has to do with the church's belief that it has literally a god given right to interfere in the political process in govts. It gets away with it in many countries around the world, and can't seem to get it through it collective sclerotic head that we don't have a state govt here. "Is the soul present at conception" is a theological arguement, not an arguement of demonstrable fact. It is in fact dependent on the question of whether or not humans have individual souls in the first place, which is also a theological question, and is not universally believed. Religion on either side needss to stay the helll out of politics, whether it's catholic, fundamentalist christian, or black baptist.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/13/2004 16:39
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#12
Say whatever you want - but this will cost Kerry votes and will not gain him any, that he doesn't have already.
#13
Weird Al, a true Catholic, you can't rail against church doctrine or teachings. To do so would (like the man said) put you in a state of sin. Now to remedy this you need only go to confession and do penance. You canât âfudge itâ or ânuance itâ to fit your individual agenda. Every Sunday all Catholics make a profession of faith and it doesnât include the words âhoweverâ or âbutâ or âsometimesâ. You either believe it/follow it or you donât. Kind of like the black and white (right/wrong) approach that President Bush takes on the world. FYI I voted this weekend and I have nothing to go to confession about.
#14
CyberSarge: If true catholics can't "rail" against church doctrine, then there probably aren't a whole lot of them around. That isn't the issue at stake here. The issue is whether churches should or should not publicly attack or endorse candidates from either side while operating as non-profit organizations. I don't care which side they endorse.
As a backup question: In 1960 non-catholics attacked Kennedy, claiming that if he were elected he would toe the vatican line on issues of public interest. In 2004 catholics (esp in the hierarchy) are attacking Kerry because he won't follow the vatican party line. Either both attacks were wrong, or they are both right.
Attack Kerry all you like on issues. You're free to do so, and I won't even raise an eyebrow. Call him any name you like. I'll yawn. Use religion as a way to attack someone on public issues, you're wrong. Or be willing to accept any and all attacks from the other side re: Bush's religious beliefs without calling foul.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/13/2004 19:41
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#15
Wierd Al and LiberalHawk - you're flat out wrong.
First off: The Archbishop is not telling "people" how to vote in order to exercise political power. He is concerned for the souls of Catholics and his tremarks are clearly addressed to Catholics, not to the public at large. This is why:
It is undeniable that the Church views abortion and abuse of the unborn as a great sin - in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it is an evil capable of severing your relationship to God. It is tantamount to murder for Catholics.
Its spelled out in CCC 2272: "Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense, The Church attaches the canonical penalty of automatic excommunication to this crime against human life."
To vote for a politician because he support abortion, is to cooperate by giving your sanction, formally, to the act of abortion across the area that the politican covers. And to do so places you at risk of your immortal soul. Thats why the Archbishop spoke out. Not because he wants Bush, nor Kerry - as a matter of fact his most recent writings says that neither candidate is "perfect" on fitting the Chruch's views. Its because he sees Catholic aouls at risk. And that is who his opinon was aimed at. Not at Baptists, Buddhists or Atheists. Catholics only. To say otherwise is to misconstrue a very carefully worded and thought out statement by the Archbishop.
FYI: Harvesting of embryos for reseach also falls under this: could you imagine harvesting grown humans for "research"? The Nazis did it - and its the same for Catholics who believe life starts at conception.
Secondly: The "Its wrong to push my views on others" is a load of crap. Was it wrong to push our views, violently, on the Nazis who ran the death camps in Europe? Was it wrong for the Federal Government to use the National Guard to push the views on Civil Rights on the segregationists? If something is a great moral evil, a holocaust, an enslaving, then you are morally boud to speak out and act against it when you can. Now you know why people on the pro-life side are so vehement: this is a matter of life or death due to our core beliefs.
The thing to remember is that it is KERRY who keeps bringing his Catholicism to the forefront.
And thats where the issue is: his claims to be Catholic but his actions to the contrary. Its a fundamental moral and intellectual dishonesty that Kerry displays, and THAT is the issue.
Kerry cannot claim to be Catholic and then act against the very vital moral center of the Church and its teachings. To do so is to LIE about something that should be vitally important to a person: his faith and immortal soul.
#16
You may disagree with me and with the Catholic Church and our moral decisions on those items above, plus routine adiminstration of the death penalty, treatment of the poor, etc.
I'll be glad to argue into the ground and show you the error of your ways on those issues. And I'll win because if you accept my preconditons the arguments will fall to me.
The issue is that we disagree on fundamental ground issues: when does life begin? What obligation do we have to human life and human dignity? Do you believe in God, Jesus and the one holy catholic and apostolic church?
If the answer is yes, then you will be forced to agree with the Chruch's stand. The theology and logic is there given the precepts of the CHurch.
BUT! If your answer is no, then we can agree to disagree - you'll think me religious a fool, and I'll pity you in that you are working against God and will reap the sorrows you sow.
And that's where Kerry fails: he tries to claim the Church and oppose it at the same time.
And thats not using his Religion against him - thats calling him out on a lie, a deception he is foisting on the public.
#17
Kerry's a cafeteria Catholic: he picks and chooses the doctrinal beliefs that he's willing to uphold. Which is to say, he's pretty much in the mainstream of American Catholicism and will probably neither win nor lose many Catholic votes on the the abortion issue. The evangelical Prods are another matter entirely.
#18
Old Spook, it's not that simple. I can disagree with the leaders of the Catholic Church (even with the Pope) and still consider myself a Catholic.
The Church didn't play a stellar role in Nazi Germany. It even condoned antisemitism and didn't speak up against the persecution of the Jews. Yet good Catholics who disagreed with the Vatican hid Jews in their basement to save them.
You can believe in the Church and not agree with everything the Church decides.
This is not a comment about Kerry's stand on abortion but a general observation.
#19
Let's face it, the doctrines of papal infallibility and of adherence generally to the teachings of God's Vicar on Earth are honored in the breach by most North American and European Catholics today. The vast majority of the (non-Opus Dei) western Catholics are for all practical purposes indistinguishable from Protestants. Survey data have shown repeatedly that their social views are identical to those of mainline protestants.
This election will not turn on abortion orstem cells. It's about who can and will defend this nation.
By day, she was a respectable, middle-aged woman who lived with a steady partner. By night, she crept out of their house to seek random sex with strangers.
But the woman was unaware of her own double life, which was conducted while she was asleep, said the Sydney doctor who diagnosed and treated her.
"Incredulity is the first staging post for anyone involved in this - including medicos," said Peter Buchanan, a sleep physician at Royal Prince Alfred Hospital. "One has to maintain a healthy degree of scepticism."
In this case, though, it was immediately clear the woman's story was not an ingenious cover for clandestine sexual liaisons. The patient was baffled; her partner was distraught.
"He was aware of some sleepwalking and there was circumstantial evidence, including the unexplained presence of condoms around the house," Dr Buchanan said. "On one occasion he awoke to find her absent from the bedroom and searched until he found her - engaged in such activity."
Her condition, known as sleep sex, is a recently identified form of parasomnia, or sleep disorder, Dr Buchanan will tell the Annual Scientific Meeting of the Australasian Sleep Association in Sydney this weekend.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/13/2004 19:08
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#2
Ten years ago Estonia became the first country in Europe to introduce flat rate proportional personal income tax, a policy designed to energize our people and stimulate growth. It was a huge success. Latvia and Lithuania followed, then Russia, Ukraine and now Slovakia. [...] It looks quite possible that within five years the whole of Central and Eastern Europe will move to flat-rate income taxes
Russia's flat tax is 13%, which Putin introduced in 2001.
#3
Pretty hard to argue with Ireland's success. This is the best wedge against Old (Slacker) Europe imaginable. Great for Estonia, btw. Superb economy, and exceptionally beautiful women as well.
Scientists say they have shown how male homosexuality could be passed from generation to generation.
Nature encourages mothers to pass on a "gay trait" to their male offspring by boosting their fertility, the Italian University of Padova team believes.
This would keep the pattern of gay inheritance alive, they told the Royal Society's Biological Sciences journal.
Critics of the theory argue a gay gene would eventually be wiped out because gay couples do not procreate.
Inheritance theory
There is controversy about whether sexual orientation is a matter of choice, the authors of the study admitted to the journal.
Campaigners say equality for homosexual people is the more important issue.
Back in 1993, US researchers suggested male homosexuality was passed from mother to son after they found strong patterns of inheritance in family trees.
It has also been noted that homosexual males are more often the younger siblings of a number of older brothers.
Scientists have said it might be that the mother develops some kind of resistance to the male Y chromosome in her offspring that makes subsequent baby boys more likely to be born gay.
Scientists doing DNA studies on homosexual brothers pinpointed 'culprit' genetic material to a region of the X chromosome that mothers pass on to their offspring.
But other researchers in the US have not been able to replicate these findings.
Andrea Camperio-Ciani and colleagues argue genetic factors favouring homosexual male offspring could make women more fertile.
"Our data resolve this paradox by showing that there might be, hitherto unsuspected, reproductive advantages associated with male homosexuality," they said.
Highly fertile
They looked at 98 homosexual and 100 heterosexual men and their relatives, which included more than 4,600 people overall.
The female relatives on the mother's side of the homosexual men tended to have more offspring than the female relatives on the father's side.
This suggests that these women who, in theory, pass on the gay trait to their male offspring are also more fertile.
In comparison, the female relatives on both the mother's and the father's side of the heterosexual men did not appear to be as fertile, having fewer offspring.
The researchers believe the homosexuality-increased fertility trait must be passed down on the female X chromosome.
They pointed out that this would not explain the majority (80%) of cases, and that cultural factors might be important.
Bigger picture
"It is clear that our findings, if confirmed by further research, are only one piece in a much larger puzzle on the nature of human sexuality," they said.
In 2002, the Nuffield Council on Bioethics produced a report into the possible link between genes and behaviour, which included sexual orientation.
It concluded: "There are numerous problems with genetic and other biological research into sexual orientation which mean that any reported findings must be viewed with caution."
It said many of the genetic studies were too small to draw definite conclusions from.
Alan Wardle from the gay rights charity Stonewall said: "This is an interesting debate and there may well be a genetic element, but it's not conclusive.
"It does not really matter whether it is nature or nurture.
"The important thing is getting equality for homosexual people."
Posted by: tipper ||
10/13/2004
1:58:48 AM ||
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The important thing is getting equality for homosexual people
The nature Vs. nurture argument strikes again.
But as usual, it boils down to how can we beat up on the (insert Bushhitler/Rethugs/Chaney-Halliburton/etc.) today. Sigh.
Posted by: N guard ||
10/13/2004 7:37
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I'm sorry.
When the fuck did getting equality for a certain section of the population under SECULAR, civil law become a political strike against Bush.
It seems that Bush has made so many fundamental mistakes and misjedgements, he's so full of your American intolerance, bigotry and hatred that any statement of pure common sense comes out as a "strike" against Bush.
It's because Bush is a fucking monster - to the environment, to minorities trying to vote, to ethical considerations... He APPOINTED that fucking Bioethics council HIMSELF, and he fires any of the scientists who say anything he doesn't like. The people who staffed the 2002 Councial aren't employed anymore precisely because they put out impartial studies that didn't support Bush statements.
i.e. they didn't toe the party line.
So don't tell me there's a conspiracy to get Bush out of office. The conspiracy is quite literally everyone who doesn't tell the story the Bush administration wants them to.
Just like anyone and everyone who fights against America must necessarily be "with the terrorists". You create your own enemies by branding them, and then wonder why "everyone's against me".
#8
Quick, someone get this breaking âscientificâ news over to the homosexuals at this site and this site. The sites are hosted by homosexuals leaving (or trying to leave) the homosexual lifestyle, and address the issue of homosexual orientation and root causes in some depth.
Frankly, I doubt these people (who have first-hand experience with the homosexual lifestyle) will be too impressed. These âobjective, scientificâ charades posing as studies have been put out for years. Personally I also have serious political concerns about the deconstruction of socio-emotional cognitive concepts and schemas, and the traditions and mores honored worldwide and cross-culturally over millennia. My biggest beef with the current âhomosexualâ nature-versus-nurture dialogue is that it represents an attempt by the intellectually elite (and the intellectually dishonest) to redefine society and government in terms of their choosing -- and which happens to be pretty damn liberal. Most cultures, and most people, realize that the human sexual response is fairly plastic (e.g., it can be molded into fetishes), but that doesnât mean that atypical sexual response patterns are something any society should condone (toleration is a different matter). As I read Blackstone, to the extent the behavior is purely private, it remains a matter between the person and the Creator. To the extent it becomes public, the behavior is subject to the Rule of Law, and the traditions and mores of society.
#11
It's because Bush is a fucking monster - AND CAN'T YOU SEE THE CLOVEN HOOVES? (Addendum after Lileks)
Lefties are fun when they are crazy. As the desperation rises, so increases the insanity. The next three weeks should be full of good, whacked out frothing.
#14
How do men who think oral and anal sex with other men are normal pass on anything? Passing on requires sex with women. Most western women require a long term commitment to them before they bear offspring.
I am always amused by the gay human rights folk on the web. They try so hard to sound normal. Men that want a penis up their rectum are not normal.
No you are not normal you are a freak. You already have equal rights just like all persons. You don't get to have more rights than the rest of us. Grow up and get out of the way.
You might want to tone it down, there, SPOD. I know a few people who are openly gay (and no doubt more who are closeted) and they are as fully decent and human as any other individual. I am proud to count them as friends. Labelling ALL gays as "freaks" presents the kind of image that critics of a website like this would love to use to dicredit ALL who comment here as hopelessly bigotted.
#18
Labelling ALL gays as "freaks" presents the kind of image that critics of a website like this would love to use to dicredit ALL who comment here as hopelessly bigotted
No worried, docob, I'll only use it to discredit MOST who comment here as hopelessly bigoted. ;-)
#20
Gee you make this easy Aris. Hey guys, look, a greek guy in a gay thread. Who'da thunk it?
Thanks for the chuckle, while collar redneck. Unfortunately Aris is not as self effacing about his 'Greekness'. He doesn't have much of a sense of humor.
There is no such thing as "a" homsexual or lesbian. On this planet, anyway, "homsexuals" and "lesbians" are actually heterosexual men and women (the only "kind" that exists), who are engaging in sexual activities with members of their same sex, or are bouncing between the sexes ("bi-sexual"), or are trying to escape their sexuality altogether ("trans-sexual") for a number of reasons, driven by psycho-emotional issues, per the individual. That's it. That's all.
The activists for sexual deviance (deviance from the norm, that is) advocate for the development of a separate class (i.e., a special interest group) based on their sexual behavior. As social deconstructionists, they should be opposed. NO "special class" political status should be granted to practitioners of behaviors, no matter what those behaviors are.
#25
"NO "special class" political status should be granted to practitioners of behaviors, no matter what those behaviors are."
I fully agree with that statement, and I agree that gays shouldn't try to separate themselves out as a special class or interest group, and they certainly don't deserve any "more rights than the rest of us". But to label every gay person as a "freak" is just plain divisive and hateful, and I'm surprised that it has garnered more than one comment of support.
#26
who cares. I'm so sick of the whiney gays demanding that we love them. I don't care what you do. Activist gays remind me of the type of heterosexual men who go around insisting that they are "butt" or "boobs" guys as if anyone else is interested in what turns them on. EEECH! It's freaking annoying. This constant whining that we must approve your sex life is so needy and insecure. Can't you have sex without begging for our approval?
#27
Having been harassed by 2 different homosexual men when I was a young teen gives me the right to call them freaks. Sorry to pop anyone pretty balloon.
I don't give a damm what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. Beyond that being queer doesn't give you a pass to violate that personal standard. Just because you don't come on to me doesn't give you a special type of human rights. You get the same civil rights and responsibilities and everyone else. That means you don't get to marry other men.
It also means you can't harass much younger people who are smaller and weaker than you as well. Yet the great majority of gays refuse to confront this as a problem their group has. So yea many of them are freaks (in the bad sense of the word.)
It was sobering, on reading the recent flurry of letters in this newspaper under the heading "Balancing The US Debate", to discover that it was this column that had single-handedly unbalanced it. "If Steyn represents the American right, where is the spokesperson for the American left?" demands Conor McCarthy of Dun Laoghaire. The hitherto perfectly poised seesaw of press coverage of the United States is apparently all out of whack because my corpulent column is weighing down one end while on the other up in the air are the massed ranks of Irish Times correspondents, RTE, the BBC and 97% of the European media class, plus Anthony O'Halloran, who opined in these pages a few days ago that "anyone who cares to visit a small town in the Midwest will encounter what can only be described as ultra-right-wing thinking." Prof O'Halloran didn't cite any examples of this "ultra-right-wing thinking", secure in his assumption that most readers would know the sort of thing he had in mind.
As the ne plus ultra of unbalanced right-wing thinkers, it's not for me to suggest how the US debate might be balanced in these pages. I have only one theory on column-writing, which is this: at a certain basic level, a columnist has to be right more often than not, otherwise the reader (I use the singular advisedly) is just wasting his time. If I were Robert Fisk, the famed foreign correspondent with decades of experience in the Muslim world, I'd be ashamed to leave the house. Sample Fisk headlines on the Afghan war: "Bush Is Walking Into A Trap", "It Could Become More Costly Than Vietnam". Sample insight on the Iraq war: when the Yanks announced they'd taken Baghdad International Airport, Fisky insisted they hadn't and suggested they'd seized an abandoned RAF airfield from the Fifties by mistake. It's this kind of unique expertise that has made him so admired around the world, not least in Ireland.
By contrast, readers of this column may have gained the impression that George W Bush will win the Presidential election on November 2nd. If he doesn't, I shall trouble readers of this newspaper no further. It would be ridiculous to continue passing myself off as an incisive analyst of US affairs after I've been exposed as a deluded fool who completely misread the entire situation. In the bright new dawn of the Kerry Administration, you'd deserve better. If that's not an incentive for Irish citizens to smuggle a few illegal campaign contributions the Senator's way, I don't know what is.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
10/13/2004
1:45:17 AM ||
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Dang! Mark Steyn isn't taking any prisoners lately, is he?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/13/2004 6:53
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STEYN!
A sane version of .. dare I say it ...
HOWARD BEALE...
I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!
#3
C'mon Mark, Don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel!
Way Cool!
Posted by: DanNY ||
10/13/2004 13:49
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#4
A good article, I think his job is safe. I love the Fisk quotes, especially the one about U.S. forces capturing an old RAF Base. How does he show his face in public? But being liberal means never having to admit you were wrong.
#7
I hope he's right! If he's wrong - I'll pay to read his stuff online.
Posted by: too bee ||
10/13/2004 17:03
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#8
"And yes, it was a flawed election: it emerged on polling day that the indelible ink used to mark votersâ thumbs could be rubbed off. And whose fault is that? Well, the election was managed by the UN, which evidently got its indelible ink from the book-keeping department of its Oil-for-Food program."
Yow! That is what we call, in Mortal Kombat terms, a "fatality."
Posted by: Matt from Ill ||
10/13/2004 22:48
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Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said Wednesday that he hoped the arrest of the Hamas military leader in Hebron, suspected of engineering twin suicide bombings in Be'er Sheva on August 31, would reduce the number of terrorist attacks against Israelis. hope so Imad Kawasme, thought to have dispatched the bus bombers who carried out the attacks on two Be'er Sheva buses in which 16 people were killed, surrendered when Israel Defense Forces troops surrounded his safe house in the West Bank city. So this is they guy who sent kids to die by blowing up innocent civilians on buses. What a scumbag.
"Kawasme is a mass-murderer whose hands were soaked in blood of many of Israel's civilians. I very much hope that the arrest will disrupt the [Hamas] infrastructure in Hebron and reduce the number of attacks emanating from the region," said Mofaz. and I very much hope he dies a slow, painful death.
The surrender of a member of the Hamas military wing, Iz a Din al-Kassam, is quite a rare occurrence, as the organization's militants in Hebron and Nablus have in the past two years preferred a fight to the death. not this coward
Soldiers from the elite Golani unit surrounded Kawasma's safe house in Hebron, called for him to turn himself in and opened fire. Kawasme emerged from the safe house carrying a white flag and surrendered. There were no injuries in the raid. this asswipe didn't shoot it out. None of that "you'll never take me alive, coppers!" Nope. He surrendered. I guess becoming dead is for easily duped kids, not "leaders." But I LOVE that he's in his skivvies!
#5
It will even out...this man is not in for a very good time...he'd have been better off taking the bullet.
Posted by: Mike Lancaster ||
10/13/2004 17:53
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The surrender of a member of the Hamas military wing, Iz a Din al-Kassam, is quite a rare occurrence, as the organizationâs militants in Hebron and Nablus have in the past two years preferred a fight to the death.
"This younger generation!" Shakes head in disgust.
#7
I remember when I was young and in the Jihadi way... I'd walk for 3 miles on broken glass to throw a one ounce stone against the infidel. Kids these days, I just don't know.
#11
Rantburg Zionists, one day your hate spewing against Moslems will land you in jail because it incites hatred and endangers Americans at home -- pack up and go to Israel where you belong. FYI, we are keeping records of your posts and names for the US DOJ.
Posted by: Boris Pribich ||
10/13/2004 20:23
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#12
Rantburg Zionists, one day your hate spewing against Moslems will land you in jail because it incites hatred and endangers Americans at home -- pack up and go to Israel where you belong. FYI, we are keeping records of your posts and names for the US DOJ.
Posted by: Boris Pribich ||
10/13/2004 20:23
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An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.
The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.
According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.
A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.
The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.
The "board of officers" review reported in the Claytor document is even more extraordinary because it came about "by direction of the President." No normal honorable discharge requires the direction of the president. The president at that time was James Carter. This adds another twist to the story of Mr. Kerry's hidden military records.
Mr. Carter's first act as president was a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. Less than an hour after his inauguration on January 21, 1977, while still in the Capitol building, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering it. By the time it became a directive from the Defense Department in March 1977 it had been expanded to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge.
§ 12681. Reserves: discharge authority
Subject to other provisions of this title, reserve commissioned officers may be discharged at the pleasure of the President. Other Reserves may be discharged under regulations prescribed by the Secretary concerned.
§ 12682. Reserves: discharge upon becoming ordained minister of religion
Under regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary of Defense, a Reserve who becomes a regular or ordained minister of religion is entitled upon his request to a discharge from his reserve enlistment or appointment.
1163
§ 12683. Reserve officers: limitation on involuntary separation
(a) An officer of a reserve component who has at least five years of service as a commissioned officer may not be separated from that component without his consent exceptâ
(1) under an approved recommendation of a board of officers convened by an authority designated by the Secretary concerned; or
(2) by the approved sentence of a court-martial.
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(1) A separation under section 12684, 14901, or 14907 of this title.
(2) A dismissal under section 1161 (a) of this title.
(3) A transfer under section 12213, 12214, 14514, or 14515 of this title.
(4) A separation of an officer who is in an inactive status in the Standby Reserve and who is not qualified for transfer to the Retired Reserve or is qualified for transfer to the Retired Reserve and does not apply for such a transfer.
§ 12684. Reserves: separation for absence without authority or sentence to imprisonment
The President or the Secretary concerned may drop from the rolls of the armed force concerned any Reserveâ
(1) who has been absent without authority for at least three months;
(2) who may be separated under section 12687 of this title by reason of a sentence to confinement adjudged by a court-martial; or
(3) who is sentenced to confinement in a Federal or State penitentiary or correctional institution after having been found guilty of an offense by a court other than a court-martial or other military court, and whose sentence has become final.
§ 12685. Reserves separated for cause: character of discharge
A member of a reserve component who is separated for cause, except under section 12684 of this title, is entitled to a discharge under honorable conditions unlessâ
(1) the member is discharged under conditions other than honorable under an approved sentence of a court-martial or under the approved findings of a board of officers convened by an authority designated by the Secretary concerned; or
(2) the member consents to a discharge under conditions other than honorable with a waiver of proceedings of a court-martial or a board.
§ 12686. Reserves on active duty within two years of retirement eligibility: limitation on release from active duty
(a) Limitation.â Under regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary concerned, which shall be as uniform as practicable, a member of a reserve component who is on active duty (other than for training) and is within two years of becoming eligible for retired pay or retainer pay under a purely military retirement system, may not be involuntarily released from that duty before he becomes eligible for that pay, unless the release is approved by the Secretary.
(b) Waiver.â With respect to a member of a reserve component who is to be ordered to active duty (other than for training) under section 12301 of this title pursuant to an order to active duty that specifies a period of less than 180 days and who (but for this subsection) would be covered by subsection (a), the Secretary concerned may require, as a condition of such order to active duty, that the member waive the applicability of subsection (a) to the member for the period of active duty covered by that order. In carrying out this subsection, the Secretary concerned may require that a waiver under the preceding sentence be executed before the period of active duty begins.
Canada has suspended three of its former Royal Navy submarines from service after last week's fatal blaze on a fourth vessel. The country's defence ministry said it was confining the subs to port until the cause of the fire was identified.
Lieutenant Chris Saunders, 32, died in hospital after suffering from the effects of smoke inhalation when two fires ripped through the Chicoutimi which was on its first voyage on Canadian service. The vessel, which was left drifting in the Atlantic after the fires broke out, made its way into Faslane with the Canadian flag at half mast on Sunday afternoon after a rescue operation involving British, American and Irish forces. She was among four former Royal Navy subs sold to the Canadian navy in 1998, but remained in British hands while BAE Systems prepared her for her return into service.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2004
12:41:56 AM ||
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The cause? Anyone familiar with the Triumph motorcar will recognize the symptoms of a Lucas electrical system.
Local insurgents in the city of Fallujah are turning against the foreign fighters who have been their allies in the rebellion that has held the U.S. military at bay in parts of Iraq's Sunni Muslim heartland, according to Fallujah residents, insurgent leaders and Iraqi and U.S. officials. Relations are deteriorating as local fighters negotiate to avoid a U.S.-led military offensive against Fallujah, while foreign fighters press to attack Americans and their Iraqi supporters. The disputes have spilled over into harsh words and sporadic violence, with Fallujans killing at least five foreign Arabs in recent weeks, according to witnesses. "If the Arabs will not leave willingly, we will make them leave by force," said Jamal Adnan, a taxi driver who left his house in Fallujah's Shurta neighborhood a month ago after the house next door was bombed by U.S. aircraft targeting foreign insurgents.
#4
He's tossed in the HTML for a 4000-wide table just before his comment in order to louse up the site formatting.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste ||
10/13/2004 8:37
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He tries to do that at least once a day, in the wee hours when the editors are nitey-nite.
Guess we'll have to set up a night watch.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004 8:51
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WaPo as a source of optimism about Iraq is the second by-line in this story.
Posted by: Capt America ||
10/13/2004 8:53
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Jamal Adnan, a taxi driver who left his house in Fallujah's Shurta neighborhood a month ago after the house next door was bombed by U.S. aircraft targeting foreign insurgents
We left the next-door neighbors house standing? That doesn't sounds like us "Evil" Americans at all.
Posted by: Charles ||
10/13/2004 8:55
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One of the foreign guerrillas killed by local fighters was Abu Abdallah Suri, a Syrian and a prominent member of Zarqawi's group, whose body was discovered Sunday
dancing raisins, or popcorn? Popcorn, I think.
Oh, and the bit about ancestors graves. Making a big deal about graves is a pre-islamic custom i think, and is big to Sufis. The Salafis wont have it at all, not even gravestones. This alienated muslims in Bosnia from the Salafis, and seems to be having an effect in Fallujah, where evidently not everybody is wahabi.
So what we did was let the folks there live under their Salafi "liberators". till the locals got sick of the jihadis.
Let the plan continue.
Posted by: Dan ||
10/13/2004 11:10
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capt america:
Theres been a difference of tone among the different arms of the WaPo. Editorial page is straight liberal hawk - pretty close to my positions. The National Bureau reporters, with a couple of exceptions, seem to have it in for Bush, and have been farther left on Iraq related issues. The Baghdad bureau has been somewhat in between - they lean "quagmire" but have a knack for insightful stories. If they print something positive like this, it doesnt mean the worlds turned upside down (since they arent "on the enemy side") but its a pretty good indication SOMETHING real is happening, since they are lean towards the negative.
#11
only a matter of time before the subtle cracks became fissures. The locals may not like us being around, but I think they are learning that a secular U.S. doesn't give a flip if they pray on a grave or on a palm tree.
#12
Local insurgents in the city of Fallujah are turning against the foreign fighters who have been their allies in the rebellion that has held the U.S. military at bay in parts of Iraq's Sunni Muslim heartland, according to Fallujah residents, insurgent leaders and Iraqi and U.S. officials.
My memory serves me that this was avoided b/c of politics. Love the WaPo's "the rebellion that has held the U.S. military at bay..." HOGWASH!
Posted by: BA ||
10/13/2004 11:53
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#13
You might be right BA, maybe the IGC wanted us out of fallujah because they figured in the long run the locals and the foreign arabs would run afoul of each other. Let them waste each other over religious disputes and eventually the masses will want order and will turn to the IGC and U.S. to provide it. At the time I did not predict this but maybe there was a logic to it after all.
#14
#13, JH: I submit to you...you are probably correct. My gut instinct tells me to wipe 'em off the face of the planet and sort things out after, but there may be some logic in this. I'm sure the civilian population are tiring of these fights on their streets and I've read where many want us to come in and run these goons out.
Posted by: BA ||
10/13/2004 14:29
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A small South Korean navy vessel sank overnight in bad weather but the accident was not linked to a possible intrusion by North Korean submarines, the Defence Ministry said on Wednesday. One sailor was rescued but the other four crew members were missing from the training ship that sank about 40 km (20 miles) off the port city of Ulsan on the south coast of South Korea, ministry spokesman Nam Dae-yeon told reporters. The vessel had been returning to port after an overnight exercise. It was not immediately clear what caused the accident.
Bad weather?
Asked whether there was any link between the loss of the South Korean vessel and reported North Korean submarine activity, he said: "That has nothing to do with the sunken ship. Even the locations are far apart." Earlier, Yonhap news agency reported the US military had advised South Korea about two suspected North Korean submarines operating in South Korean waters on Monday. "We have not found or detected anything," Nam said.
How hard did you look?
He said the military was carrying out a routine additional search, but declined to give any details.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2004
12:23:45 AM ||
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I suspect Gulf of Tonkin type activities will begin to 'chew' at the US's resolve and the nerve of the S. Koreans, until the inevitable 'must respond' situation developes. Question is...will we pull back on the tier one defenses, or present a formidable show of force?
#2
I was under the impression that the NORK SSK's weren't even capable of leaving dockside, much less killing anything. Having said that, the ROK Navy is VERY good, and the USN may just start doing ASW exercises in the area. If there's a boat there, they'll find it.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/13/2004 9:46
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Afghanistan was set to start counting votes on Wednesday from a historic presidential election after several candidates backed off from declaring the poll illegal. The ballots poured into collection centres across the country, brought by donkey, road and helicopter, with officials expecting to start counting sometime on Wednesday.
US Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad has been influential in persuading several rivals of frontrunner President Hamid Karzai to abandon a boycott of Saturday's landmark poll over what they said were fraud and irregularities. The Afghan-UN Joint Electoral Management Body (JEMB) is setting up a panel to investigate. Privately, election officials say few votes were fraudulent and would have no major effect on the poll. Karzai's chief rival, Yunus Qanuni, on Monday withdrew a boycott call, issued after suspicions emerged of illegal multiple voting after a mix-up at some polling stations over the type of ink used to mark voters' fingers. Another main candidate, Uzbek general Abdul Rashid Dostum, came to Kabul and met Khalilzad, but there was no immediate word on the outcome of the meeting. Agreement by Dostum to recognise the election, joining Qanuni and Hazara leader Mohammad Mohaqiq, would signal the collapse of the boycott that had undermined a vote in which millions of Afghans turned out despite threats of attacks by Islamic fundamentalist Taleban insurgents.
These guys have to learn how to lose gracefully. Come to think of it, so do a lot of Democrats.
#4
I did not read the comment as a reference to the 2000 election but as a reference to the sacking of Republican offices and other acts of violence that have been characteristic of only one party in this country in the current election.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 9:25
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#5
then why the reference to "lose" - nobodys lost the 2004 general election yet.
I hope whoever loses does so gracefully. I see plenty of signs of absence of such grace on both sides.
You're referring to the Roadside America site, one of my favorites. The name "Anonymous," which used to be the default for new or cookie-less commentors, ended up on the Poop List due to its use by trolls. Change your handle to something a little less, ummmm... anonymous and join the fray.
#1
Yeah verily, and all Anon trolls in the LA area can treat themselves to the Race changing "Golf Man", who was white, then black, then white, located at a driving range along the 405 just south of the 110!
#7
While surfing for free smut all most all my cookies got reset. One of the few that didin't was Rantburg go figure. I want the muffler man to go visit all the Trolls. Nice folk get visited by a bikini clad muffler gal!
An anti-terrorism court sentenced a militant on Tuesday to 40 years in prison for possessing explosives and killing a woman during a shootout with police, lawyers said. Kamran Atif, 28, a member of the Harkatul Mujahedeen Al-Alami militant group, was arrested in May after police raided his hideout in the southern city of Karachi and found grenades, a rocket and other explosives. During the raid, he exchanged fire with police and the woman passer-by was killed, said Mazhar Qayyum, a government prosecutor. Judge Haq Nawaz Baluch sentenced Atif to 10 years in prison for causing the "incidental death" of the woman, 25 years for possessing explosives and five years for the clash with police. Defense lawyer Ghulam Qadir Jatoi said he would appeal the verdict.
"It was all an unfortunate mistake, yer honor!"
Atif is also suspected of involvement in a botched attempt to kill President Gen. Pervez Musharraf in Karachi in April 2002. A car packed with explosives on Musharraf's motorcade route failed to detonate. A trial against Atif in that case has yet to start.
Plenty of time for it now.
Harkatul Mujahedeen al-Alami is an outlawed group, which has been blamed for attacks against security forces, Westerners and the government in Karachi.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2004
12:17:57 AM ||
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Maybe there's one good reason - just one - for re-electing George W Bush, and that's to force him to live with the consequences of his appalling actions, and answer for his own lies, rather than wish the job on a Democrat who will then get blamed for his predecessor's follies. Probably no American president in all history has been so universally hated abroad as George W Bush: for his bullying unilateralism, his dismissal of international treaties, his reckless indifference to the aspirations of other nations and cultures, his contempt for institutions of world government, and above all for misusing the cause of anti-terrorism in order to unleash an illegal war - and now anarchy - upon a country that like too many others around the world was suffering under a hideous dictatorship, but had no hand in 9/11, no weapons of mass destruction, and no record of terrorism except as an ally of the US in a dirty war against Iran.
Is your president a great war leader because he allowed himself to be manipulated by a handful of deluded ideologues? Is Tony Blair a great war leader because he committed Britain's troops, foreign policy and domestic security to the same hare-brained adventure? You are voting in November. We will vote next year. Yet the outcome in both countries will in large part depend on the same question: how long can the lies last now that the truth has finally been told? The Iraq war was planned long before 9/11. Osama provided the excuse. Iraq paid the price. American kids paid the price. British kids paid the price. Our politicians lied to us.
And furthermore, blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda. Thank you for your contribution to American political discourse. While we can't use your stunted opinion at this time, please feel free to submit further burblings in the future...
#1
"his contempt for institutions of world government"
Excuse me, but did we agree to submit to "world government" while I was watching the baseball game? Are there any forms I have to fill out? When can I expect a check from the Swedish government?
Posted by: Matt ||
10/13/2004 12:36
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Maybe there's one good reason - just one - for re-electing George W Bush, and that's to force him to live with the consequences...
Sounds like they're getting ready to accept Kerry probably won't win. Hey, whatever helps 'em sleep at night. Dingbats.
#3
"Probably no American president in all history has been so universally hated abroad as George W Bush." I was living in Europe in the early 80s and I can honestly say that they hated Reagan much more than they hate Bush. The demonstrations were much larger and the criminal actions against American companies were more frequent. We were warned (I was in the Military) not to engage in ANY political discussions with locals because the climate was so volatile. Also there were protestors at the gates of every American Base, Consulate, and Embassy. LOUD AND VIOLENT demonstrations. If anything I think Bush isn't trying hard enough to piss them off! Of course the bar was set pretty high by Reagan.
#4
Another reason I 'm voting W. I love to see and hear theses foaming at the mouth moonbat lefties make jack asses out of themselves.
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
10/13/2004 13:16
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#5
Articles like this hearten me. I've read many of them in the last week and they all sound as if they are preparing themselves for the inevitability of a GW win.
#6
You guys know, right, that the above is a part of this effort by the Guardian to influence voters in Clark County, Ohio.
You send the Guardian your address on that page, and they'll send you the home address of a voter in that county who has not declared a political affiliation. The idea, then, is to harrass them to vote for Kerry. (Or Bush, but it's the Guardian, so let's be real here.)
There's a contest for best letter: first prize is a trip to Clark County, Ohio (oh, the excitement) to harrass voters in person during the last days of the campaign.
Be sure and follow the other links to the right, too.
#9
The Ohio electorate oughta get hazard pay for all the nonsense they've had to put up with this year...
It's not all bad. At least, we're not all insane yet.
I spoke to the local Board of Elections, and they said they'd found ONE questionable registration this year. Of course, we're a primarily Republican county, so...
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2004 14:14
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#10
A smack-down of these Three Stooges' more egregious idiocies:
Le Carre: The Iraq war was planned long before 9/11. Yep, about 1992, when arch-realpolitiker Bush 41's refusal to honor the Shi'a and Kurdish uprising outraged true liberals like Wolfowitz. Also, it was Clinton who first made "regime change in Iraq the official policy of the United States."
While Bush was waging his father's war . One of the stupidest canards of all. Bush's father refused to overthrow Saddam! GW Bush broke ranks with his father and Scowcroft and all the other cynical realpolitikers in finally summoning the will and courage to end Saddam's slaughterhouse.
please don't feel isolated from the Europe you twice saved Perhaps our "isolation" is due to our disgust at being forced, yet again, to bear the burden of destroying fascist threats that Europeans are unwilling or unable to combat.
Lady Fraser: If you vote for Kerry, you will help to avert a move backwards towards women's suffering. But it was Bush who destroyed the greatest enemy of women the modern world has seen, the viciously misogynistic medieval Taliban regime! Women in Afghanistan now are voting, running for office, attending school, running businesses-- and all of this is precisely due to Bush's war to overthrow the Taliban.
Richard Dawkins: [Overthrowing Saddam] is the Tony Martin school of foreign policy [Martin was a householder who shot dead a burglar who had broken into his house in 1999]. It's not how civilised countries, who follow the rule of law, behave. No comment necessary. This smug, sneering idiot's sarcastic and condescending vitriol is as good as any campaign weapon in Rove's armory.
A French-built Mirage-2000 military jet of the Indian Air Force crashed on Tuesday after its pilot failed to control the aircraft during midair technical snags before ejecting safely, a military spokesman in New Delhi said. The aircraft took off from the central Indian city of Gwalior at 11:30 am (0600 GMT) but within minutes developed unspecified snags, airforce spokesman Squadron Leadar Mahesh Upasani said. "The pilot decided to return to base but as force-landing was not possible, he ejected," Upasani said, adding the aircraft crashed some four kilometres (2.5 miles) short of the airfield in Gwalior and exploded in flames. There were no casualties, he said, adding that the pilot had landed safely.
Tuesday's crash is the second involving a Mirage-2000 in India in less than a month. On September 23 the Gwalior airbase lost a Mirage-2000 when the multi-role jet crashed into a sparsely populated region near the city. The aircraft lost its nosewheel in midflight and the pilot ejected safely. The Indian Air Force has been plagued by crashes of its ageing fleet, although accidents of Mirages have been rare. Four British-designed Jaguars of the Indian Air Force crashed in quick succession earlier this year, killing three pilots including one whose parachute failed to open.Â
"Phew, make it out alive ... AIEEEEEE, Vishnu help me now!"
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2004
12:15:16 AM ||
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#4
French aircraft have always been maintenance intensive. In a previous life, I talked with a retired two star from the Hellenic AF. He had had four squadrons of A-7s and one of Super Etendards under his command and said that the squadron of Super Etendards cost more to maintain than all the rest combined. He hated the French bloodsuckers.
#6
Some people seem to forget that the Mirage III was the backbone of the Israeli Force during the Six Days war and a significant part during the Kipour were the IAF got a kill ratio from over 20 to 1 in Air to air combat.
For Super Etendard being maintenance intensive, I would recall you that this varies with age and how they were maintained before that. And that all nations have had their share of hangar queens: anyone remembering the trouble with the B1?
Eight people were stranded in a remote area of Afghanistan after their UN helicopter developed engine trouble and made an emergency landing while on a trip to pick up ballot boxes, a UN spokesman said Tuesday. Nobody was injured in the incident three days after Afghanistan's landmark elections, but the three crew members and five passengers were stranded in the snow in the Wakan corridor in northeastern Badakhshan province, Manoel de Almeida e Silva told a news conference. "We have no concerns about their security, although we do have concerns about the very cold temperatures," he said.
Emergency supplies of food, warm clothing and shelter materials had already been dropped and US-led coalition forces would lead a rescue effort Wednesday. "We are confident that this emergency bundle will help them get through the night," Almeida e Silva said. Ballot boxes from some 5,000 polling stations around Afghanistan's rugged landscape were still being taken to eight counting centres after Saturday's vote.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/13/2004
12:13:36 AM ||
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#1
Those weren't Halliburton helos, by any chance? Just, you know, askin'.
The Taleban's failure to violently disrupt Afghanistan's first presidential election will demoralise the militia and impact its efforts to attract new followers, officials said on Tuesday. For months Taleban leaders warned they would mark Saturday's polls with bloodshed and chaos, but the threats turned out to be hollow. Attacks were limited to isolated landmine blasts and minor clashes.
My guess is that activity's waned because of the pressure on them in Pakistan. I think the "Taliban" anymore is a 95% Pak phenomenon, a point we should be pushing in our propaganda...
A large fuel truck loaded with rockets and explosives was stopped on the outskirts of southern Kandahar on the eve of the election by Afghan security forces, while the Taleban in fact suffered the biggest casualties over the election period when 24 insurgents were killed in central Uruzgan province in a US airstrike that same day.
A Spanish miner is believed to have trained the Madrid train bombers how to use explosives, security forces have said. In a court document sent to the parliamentary commission investigating the March 11 attacks, Emilio Suarez Trashorras is said to have had numerous encounters with some of the Islamic militant suspects in the bombings. He is thought by Spain's paramilitary Civil Guard to have been the only person with experience in the use of explosives at a mine in the northern Asturias region from which the explosives believed used in the attacks were stolen.
Suarez Trashorras, who has a criminal record for possession of drugs and weapons and was a police informant, is currently in jail on charges of supplying the dynamite used in the bombings. "It's possible that Emilo Suarez Trashorras provided the terrorists the necessary training to manipulate and use the detonators and the Goma 2 (dynamite)," the Civil Guard report said. In a telephone call intercepted by the Civil Guard in Dec. 2003, Moroccan Jamal Ahmidal, who is suspected of buying the explosives used in the attacks, told Suarez Trashorras that a detonator exploded in his hand while he was trying it out, the document says. The Islamic militants blamed for the attacks are believed to have obtained the explosives in exchange for money and hashish, and allegedly said they wanted it for mining in Morocco.
Posted by: Destro ||
10/13/2004
12:06:23 AM ||
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The son of Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi proposed a new plan for general reforms in which he said his country will move away from the Middle East and reduce spending on the military. "Libya has decided to separate from the so-called Middle East," Seif al-Islam Gadhafi said at the opening session of a Tripoli conference for business leaders from Western countries. Gadhafi said he is proposing a new reform plan that will include major cuts in military expenditure. "There is no need anymore to continue spending on the military field," he said. "Instead, we will direct such spending to development."
The conference opened a day after the European Union ended 12 years of sanctions against Libya and eased an arms embargo to reward the North African country for giving up efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction. Gadhafi said the decision heralded "a new era for the Libyan-Western relationship."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
12:03:11 AM ||
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#1
i'd feel better about this if his name didn't translate to "sword of islam"
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
10/13/2004 0:08
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#2
Actually jr. appears to have a brain and some common sense. He was the one who pushed papa to join the world of reality in the first place.
Posted by: Capt America ||
10/13/2004 9:01
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#3
Do we have any photos of his body guards?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 9:07
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#4
Nice choice they have. Be part of the middle east, or Africa. Not a choice I'd want to make. Poor little LIbya with all their oil, hoping Egypt and Algeria don't notice them and gobble them up.
If I was Gadhafi I'd keep the anti Middle East Talk down and work on a very loose alliance with all of the North African Arab nations (Chad, Sudan, Niger, Mauritania, Morroco, etc) and call i the United Arab Republic. Even if the alliance is on paper only, and composed primarily of losers, it would give them all prestige.
#6
Hey. The Old Ghadaffi wasn't the evildoer that everyone thought he was. He actually passed commands that forced Libyan men to treat their women with respect and equality. Kind of cool.
#7
a real humanitarian! Spemble brains dissembles again!
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2004 14:25
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#8
Yeah, if it wasn't for that little Lockerbie thing, he mighta got, like, his own sitcomn or something, right, kid?
Real barrel of laughs Mo was back in the day.
#9
[Qaddafi] actually passed commands that forced Libyan men to treat their women with respect and equality.
Also had great respect for women's fashions. A true pioneer in the field of cross-dressing.
Geez, I've almost forgotten how to post these things.
On September 5, two days after the Beslan school hostage crisis descended into carnage, a young man with bloodshot eyes knelt beside the coffin of one of the victims, 35-yearold Timur Tsallagov, as it was lowered into the ground. Throwing dirt onto the coffin, the man made a vow: "I promise I will have my revenge on those who killed you." He was not alone. In the days after the massacre — in which more than 330 people, including scores of children, died — talk of vengeance was everywhere on the streets of Beslan, Russia. Many men were already cleaning their guns and promising that at the end of the traditional 40-day mourning period, those responsible would pay. Whoops -- that's today.
So as residents of Beslan yesterday marked the last day of official mourning by lighting candles and saying prayers inside the gutted gymnasium that was the center of the tragedy, fear was mounting of the possibility of revenge killings. Russian press outlets reported that residents of North Ossetia were coming together in informal groups to plan revenge attacks against the rival Ingush ethnic group. Many Ossetians blame the Ingush, a predominantly Muslim group closely related to the Chechens, for the attack on the school. At least nine Ingush were among the hostage-takers. The Ossetians, an overwhelmingly Christian group with strong historical ties to Russia, fought a 10-day war with the Ingush in 1992 over land rights along the border. Hundreds died in the fighting and the region remains awash in weapons. Almost every family has at least one gun in its home; in some cases, families are armed with machine guns and explosives. Sounds like a good idea in that area. But more trouble seems imminent... RTWT.
#3
For what those animals did to those children, I"m not gonna pass judgement on the Ossetians. Yer right murra, gonna be real messy.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
10/13/2004 12:33
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#4
No doubt the MSM will fully document the 'horrors' of the 'senseless' killings of the Islamists just as much as they all-but-ignored the rape and murder of the innocent children and hostages.
All to advance the goals of their (the MSM's) terrorists allies.
#5
CrazyFool - you're right. I can just see the comments now, "Who would've thought that this revenge, in the 21st Century, can happen to innocent people..... They should just talk it over....." Blah, blah, blah. I don't want to see it happen, either, but I certainly can't blame the Ossetians.
#7
Do people here know the difference between "i can understand X" and "i cant blame X". IF (and it aint happened yet" people massacre innocent ingushetians, i most certainly can and will blame whoever does the massacres, just as I blamed the childmurderers.
The Ossetians are Christians, so I hope they look to their faith, instead of towards revenge. If they do kill, I hope they only kill those who have blood on their hands and avoid the innocent. Nothing is gained by senseless killing.
#10
LH, that's all well and good if you believe that Islamic terrorism is the work of a few misguided souls. I don't. What we call terrorism is simply the most aggressive branch of a larger campaign of "religious" totalitarian expansionism. The enemy isn't bin Laden; the enemy is Islam. Any person serving as a host for this ideology is fair game. Period.
No wonder it took so long! Guess that's why I saw nuh-zingk.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/13/2004 13:58
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#13
If they want to help, infultrate the Chechens networks. Then they can help stop those idiots there, and get info for us on Al qeda. I'm sure we'd pay for the info, as would the Russians.
#14
LH, that's all well and good if you believe that Islamic terrorism is the work of a few misguided souls. I don't. What we call terrorism is simply the most aggressive branch of a larger campaign of "religious" totalitarian expansionism. The enemy isn't bin Laden; the enemy is Islam. Any person serving as a host for this ideology is fair game. Period. Happy hunting, Ossetians.
Good job, you've practically quoted Hamas rhetoric word for word, except they use "Zionism" where you've used "Islam".
You've pretty much justified 9/11, Beslan and every other act of terrorism, mass murder or even genocide that has ever happened on the face of the earth. Those Ossetian children must have after all been "hosts" of the meme of Russian imperialism, right?
Liberalhawk> "Do people here know the difference between "i can understand X" and "i cant blame X"." Most people here don't. Apologia and indifference about crimes against *innocent* Muslims has been the status quo for a very large partion of Rantburg's participants. You are one of the few exceptions, and I am sure you recognize your ideas are usually at the fringe of Rantburg mainstream (though not as much to the fringe as mine).
And didn't you promise never to come back to Rantburg?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2004 16:03
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#17
Aris, is your claim that Islam is a benevolent ideology?
I've read the Koran (because of 9/11) and I can't say I find it benevolent -- whether it be towards women, Jews, non-believers, and apostates. On the contrary, I find Islam as preached by the Koran to be an oppressive, bloodthirsty ideology similar to Nazism and Communism in terms of consequences: hatred of liberty, slavery for most, and violent death as a natural method.
#18
Good job, you've practically quoted Hamas rhetoric word for word, except they use "Zionism" where you've used "Islam".
Yep. Makes much more sense that way.
You've pretty much justified 9/11, Beslan and every other act of terrorism, mass murder or even genocide that has ever happened on the face of the earth. Those Ossetian children must have after all been "hosts" of the meme of Russian imperialism, right?
This is the part, I presume, where I'm supposed to say, "Gawrsh! I sound just like them! I must be a monster or a hypocrite, or maybe both!"
It must be nice to live with such a simplistic viewpoint, where everybody is equally right and every conflict can be turned into an infinite series of "whatabouts". But you know what? Derrida is f*cking dead. Said is f*cking dead. Your stoner logic is worthless.
#19
Kalle> "Aris, is your claim that Islam is a benevolent ideology?"
I don't think that it's an "ideology" at all. It's a religion from which several different ideologies have sprung, as different to each other as modern-day Catholicism is from the Catholicism of the Spanish Inquisition.
The prevailing ideology of Islam in the Middle-east is reactionary and repressive, yes. But do you think that everyone calling themselves Muslims share in that ideology? And even more so do you think that they share in the particular fringe ideology that would justify the death of children in Beslan?
Communism and even more so Nazism, didn't have one and a half millenium to splinter off into different interpretations. It's very easy to say what a Nazi believed -- the Nazi party lasted in a particular point of time. It's only slightly harder to say what a Communist believes-they've had what a century and a half? to splinter off into directions. For a Muslim (even one who actively believes not simply someone who was raised in the tradition), if you limit it further than "They believe in one God, and that a person called Mohammed was his prophet" you are bound to have overgeneralized.
Robert Crawford> No, Robert, I didn't "promise" it, I had simply mentioned it as a statement of intent -- I'm reasonably sure that I never made any promises about it. And then I changed my mind, which I believe I was still free to do.
lex> Thank you. But I wouldn't call myself "enlightened" as much as simply someone who still believes there's a difference between the light and the dark.
#21
BH> "the part, I presume, where I'm supposed to say, "Gawrsh! I sound just like them! I must be a monster or a hypocrite, or maybe both"
No, dearie, that's the part where you are supposed to mock me for supposed moral equivalency because I treat all murders of innocents as being murders of innocents, instead of first inquiring about the race, ethnicity or religious faith of said innocent.
You've unfortunately acted the part I expected of you.
"It must be nice to live with such a simplistic viewpoint, where everybody is equally right"
Oh, no, my viewpoint is that I am MUCH more right than *you*. And my viewpoint is that people who don't commit or advocate genocidal warfare or mass murders tend to be MUCH better than the people who so commit or advocate it.
I'm a moral absolutist you see -- unlike your brand of apologia.
#22
BH> "the part, I presume, where I'm supposed to say, "Gawrsh! I sound just like them! I must be a monster or a hypocrite, or maybe both"
No, dearie, that's the part where you are supposed to mock me for supposed moral equivalency because I treat all murders of innocents as being murders of innocents, instead of first inquiring about the race, ethnicity or religious faith of said innocent.
You've unfortunately acted the part I expected of you.
"It must be nice to live with such a simplistic viewpoint, where everybody is equally right"
Oh, no, my viewpoint is that I am MUCH more right than *you*. And my viewpoint is that people who don't commit or advocate genocidal warfare or mass murders tend to be MUCH better than the people who so commit or advocate it.
I'm a moral absolutist you see -- unlike your brand of apologia.
#23
But I wouldn't call myself "enlightened" as much as simply someone who still believes there's a difference between the light and the dark.
It's a matter of nuance and missing capacitors usually. But in this climate it all looks EuroGray.
Posted by: John Lucas ||
10/13/2004 16:45
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#24
Aris,
Please answer my very specific question: do you claim that the body of injunctions called Islam is benevolent? (doesn't matter whether you want to call it religion or ideology, I only care about the message)
In particular, is Islam benevolent towards women, Jews, non-believers (such as Hindus, Buddhists, and atheists), and apostates? is Islam pro-individual freedom as guaranteed by the republican form of government limited by a bill of rights?
You're invited to cite the Koran to establish the benevolence of Islam in those particulars. Thanks.
#25
No, dearie, that's the part where you are supposed to mock me for supposed moral equivalency because I treat all murders of innocents as being murders of innocents, instead of first inquiring about the race, ethnicity or religious faith of said innocent.
Well that's just silly, since "religious faith" is clearly a factor in this. We didn't go about WWII saying, "Look! There's a Nazi!" "Well, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's a psychopathic, Jew-killing socialist. Let's wait and see what he does."
You've unfortunately acted the part I expected of you.
Ouch! The bitter sting of moral righteousness! Make it stop! Make it stop!
Oh, no, my viewpoint is that I am MUCH more right than *you*.
Yes, but your viewpoint is sh*t. I thought I mentioned that.
And my viewpoint is that people who don't commit or advocate genocidal warfare or mass murders tend to be MUCH better than the people who so commit or advocate it.
And my viewpoint is that any ideology that professes the elimination of me and mine is an ideology that must itself be eliminated.
#26
Yes Aris, we are all the Good Lord's little children and I believe the children are our future and the future is bright only if this little light o' mine gonna shine let it shine blah blah blah.
I'm a liberal, I don't believe in God or the devil, and don't particularly care for anyone's religious war, but I come to Rantburg primarily for the same reason my fellow anti-jihadists do: because it's fun. It's a community of like-minded folks who care passionately about winning this war. If you want koombayah, then go to your local church.
And not just fun but absolutely necessary. This is war. As in every war, if you're to keep up your fighting spirit, the enemy needs to be objectified to some degree. Hence "redcoats" and "lobster-backs" in the Revolutionary War, "yankees" for southerners during the Civil War, "huns" in WWI and "jerries" and "krauts" in WWII for you-know-who, "gooks" in Vietnam etc etc etc. Soldiers do it to let off steam.
And after reading about and watching scenes of children being tortured, raped, forced to drink their piss, blown up, shot in the back, tossed into mass graves etc etc etc, soldiers, ex-soldiers and non-soldiers alike feel a similar need to let off some steam. Better through some harmless online chatter than with the rather formidable home arsenals I gather many Rantburgers (starting with Old Spook and his mahdi pistol) possess.
#27
I meant, southerners used "yankee" to objectify the Union forces. See, you come here and learn plenty about US history, society, culture and folkways; we come here to pick up something about PakistanSudanAfghanistanIraqIranIroll.
#28
I don't condone what they are about to do but I surely understand the revenge angle. The Ingush have chosen sides and I don't remember them giving up names or places where they can find the terrorists. It's kind of like the left in this country, they don't root openly for the terrorists, but they don't support measure to expose or dismantle their ability to operate. Kind of like they don't care either way how the WOT turns out. They would have been great slaves in ancient times.
#29
Interesting in that after the Beslan atrocity, the Ingush KNEW they would be targeted, yet took little effort in distancing themselves from what happened, which they could have done given the large number of foreign jihadists involved. But, they didn't. Could it be that they actually agreed with what was perpetrated on the Ossetians? If they truly tried, I missed it.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
10/13/2004 17:51
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#30
Aris, Please answer my very specific question: do you claim that the body of injunctions called Islam is benevolent? (doesn't matter whether you want to call it religion or ideology, I only care about the message) In particular, is Islam benevolent towards women, Jews, non-believers (such as Hindus, Buddhists, and atheists), and apostates? is Islam pro-individual freedom as guaranteed by the republican form of government limited by a bill of rights? You're invited to cite the Koran to establish the benevolence of Islam in those particulars. Thanks.
If you are comparing the laws of Koran to the laws of modern-day democratic governments limited by a bill of rights, then *NO* Islam as a whole is not "benevolent" (or to put it in another way it is repressive and reactionary, words I've used already).
It might be "benevolent" compared to the Aztec religion though. Or the Catholic Inquisition, perhaps.
But my point was that you don't know which people calling themselves Muslims believe in which laws. Few Jews nowadays believe in stoning adulterers, even though that's part of the body of injuctions called "Judaism".
BJ> We didn't go about WWII saying, "Look! There's a Nazi!" "Well, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's a psychopathic, Jew-killing socialist. Let's wait and see what he does.
Actually we didn't go about WWII caring about whether the Germans facing us were specific members of the Nazi party or followers of the Nazi ideology or mere innocent conscripts at all. When a person is on the enemy army about to fight you, you don't have the luxury to care about their ideology or their motivations.
And at the point that we *did* have the luxury of caring about the ideology of people (meaning after the end of the war), we decided that were many millions of Nazis that *wouldn't* be killed just because they had once been members of the Nazi party, that executions of Nazis would indeed have to do only with specific crimes, not for believing in an ideology.
Well that's just silly, since "religious faith" is clearly a factor in this.
So was "race" in the time of slavery. Would you have supported black people killing all white children just because they are white?
On my part I'd have supported only the deaths of the adult slaveholders, not all white people. Same way that I can now only support the death of the terrorists, not all Muslims.
#31
Lex> Let them objectify the *enemy* as much as they want. But when they extend the word "enemy" to cover all muslims (BH didn't care to specify age either, so please feel free to see his words about legimate targets and happy hunting apply to little Muslim children also btw -- anyone else got a good visual imagery of BH killing little Muslim children with as much gusto as Serbs did in Bosnia?), that's when I'm gonna be raising my voice in dispute.
#32
Thanks. Now that we agree Islam is NOT benevolent to e.g. women, Jews, non-believers, and apostates, the question on the table becomes: why should we tolerate Islam in any form? Nazism and Communism have been defeated, not tolerated.
My opinion is that Nazi Germany had to be defeated, just as Bushido Japan had to, and Soviet Russia had to. Now the Islamist "Umma" must be defeated. If what it takes is massive killing of the enemy, so be it. They have been deliberately attacking the West for 1400 years. The time has come to destroy them, as thoroughly as Carthage was destroyed.
If some Moslems are killed, they may start asking themselves why they hate non-Moslems. And they may ask themselves why their leaders keep preaching conquest and slavery, including the destruction of both Israel and the USA. Until they do this and explicitly renounce their creed, it is legitimate to consider them inimical and as dangerous as wild beasts -- and to use deadly force against them.
In other words, not only is islam NOT benevolent, it is virulent and deadly -- and consequently Islam must be eradicated.
They shout "Death to America" -- and we need to take their threats seriously.
#33
Aris,
I don't claim to be a moral absolutist. I believe do unto others as they do unto you. The muslim religion states that it the moral duty of each muslim to convert or kill the infidels and conquer the world for islam. In respnse, I say kill or convert to Chrisianity all the muslims. Submit or die, it's only fair. The muslims have attacked and destroyed the center of the US's major city, so I say blow up muslim cities and those in it. Chase them into the desert and hunt them down like they did to the millions of Christian and animist Sudanese. They have taken hostage, killed and raped men, women and children. Blow up muslim men, women and children where ever the are. Take their land and riches and use it against them. No mercy. No regrets.
You live in peace Aris, and I will live in peace. You do me evil, and I will do you the same to you. Only the amount will vastly differ. To do otherwise is watch my civilization slowly bleed to death, like so many before that the muslims have destroyed. Before that happens, I will send you and all those to wish that to hell.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 18:20
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#34
anyone else got a good visual imagery of BH killing little Muslim children with as much gusto as Serbs did in Bosnia?
What, you want us to leave them all homeless orphans? Jeez, what a heartless bastard.
#35
They have been deliberately attacking the West for 1400 years.
Most of those 1400 years, the so-called "West" has not been particularly "benevolent" either. Had Byzantium not heavily oppressed the Copts of Egypt, the Copts wouldn't have welcomed the invading Arabs as "benevolent" liberators.
why should we tolerate Islam in any form? Nazism and Communism have been defeated, not tolerated.
First of all Communism hasn't been defeated yet, more than a billion people live under its rule.
Secondly, mass-murdering communists just because they happen to be communists would be as bad as mass-murdering muslims just because they are muslims. It's called freedom of opinion and freedom of religion, without which my civilisation ISN'T worth defending -- without which my civilisation ISN'T my civilisation, given how I define what constitutes "the West" by the existence of these freedoms.
But by all means I agree with you with the need of the destruction of the Sharia *forms of governments* -- countries like Iran and Sudan and the Taliban Afghanistan.
The same way there'd be need to destroy any theocratic *Christian* tyranny that would have existed.
They have taken hostage, killed and raped men, women and children.
So have Christian Serbs in Bosnia against Muslims, and Russians in Chechnya. Would that, according to you, justify a Muslim taking hostage and killing Christian people, just because they are Christians?
You live in peace Aris, and I will live in peace. You do me evil, and I will do you the same to you.
The problems comes with you desiring to group all Muslims together, which is as wrong as grouping all Christians together when jihadis calculate the "punishment" that non-believers must receive.
The muslim religion states that it the moral duty of each muslim to convert or kill the infidels and conquer the world for islam.
And most Muslims believe in that as much as the Jews believe in stoning adulterers. The problem is there is a strong fringe element in Islam that does believe in it.
#36
When I saw there were 35 comments to this story (and counting), I just knew Aris was involved.
I must be psychic. ;-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/13/2004 19:06
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#37
As for Bosnians and Serbs raping and killing each other. I say fuck 'em. They have been fighting for the 700 years, with Serbs on the receiving end for most of the time. Either separate, or keep on killing each other until one side wins. It matters not to me. And as for Christian partisianship, I live in a Christian country and much of my values comes from those societal norms, but don't assume I am one. How Euro centric of you. Next you will assume I am white.
When muslims target mark all Christians, non-muslims, kaffirs for death or conversion, I have no qualms at all about marking all muslims for the same. It is other muslims who encourage, preach in the mosques, supply the recruits, finance and shelter those who are doing murdering, raping, and destruction. If the muslims do not support it, then they can take care it themselves, or point them out and we will kill them. It is not you or I that can separate the fringe groups from islam. But instead, you find them dancing in the streets and eagerly awaiting the next atrocity porn. They call it jihad. I call it a brutal war targeting civilians and I ask the same be done to them.
And Aris, muslims are the only people still stoning adulterers, at least the female ones anyway.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 19:22
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#38
ed> "And as for Christian partisianship, I live in a Christian country and much of my values comes from those societal norms, but don't assume I am one. How Euro centric of you.
Um.
1) When did I assume you were a Christian? I am rereading my comments and I can't find any such assumption. I'll be awaiting a response on this.
2) If you're not a Christian why did you favour specifically converting all Muslims to Christianity? I've heard very few people demand conversions on some *other* religion than their own.
When muslims target mark all Christians, non-muslims, kaffirs for death or conversion, I have no qualms at all about marking all muslims for the same. It is other muslims who encourage, preach in the mosques, supply the recruits, finance and shelter those who are doing murdering, raping, and destruction.
Yeah, like it was other Christians that encouraged the murders that the Bosnian Serbs did.
*Some* of Group A targetted *all* of Group B, therefore you feel it makes it okay for people of Group B to target *all* of Group A. Once again the same question: would the murder of all white people have been justified in slave-era America?
And Aris, muslims are the only people still stoning adulterers, at least the female ones anyway.
So, at which point in human history do you think that Judaism or Christianity should have been wiped out same as you are advocating to be done on Islam now? How about the time when Islam allowed the existence of Christians within its borders while Christian nations did not? At the time when Islam was more tolerant than Christianity, would you have supported the extinction of *Christianity*?
#39
More to the point, Aris, would the murder of *SOME* of the white people in slave-era America have been justified? Would it matter that they were slave-holders, or not, as long as they "benefitted" from slavery by way of being part of the slave-owning class?
Or are you saying that the murder of *NONE* of the white people would be justified?
#40
There is some good reading at www.prophetofdoom.net basically making the case that Muslims per se are not generally a danger, since most seem to very little of Islam. No need to kill them all to solve our problems. Islam as defined by the words and work of Allan and Moho is pretty nasty business, at least in this presentation, and his basic theme is that the more of Islam you believe, the more like terrorists you become. It is not as good as say Bertand Russell's stuff on Christianity, but an interesting read nevertheless. Click on "Prophet of Doom" in the Books section, the whole book is online for free.
#41
Asedwich> I've already justified the death of the slaveholders themselves, but both "benefitted from slavery" and "slave-owning class" feel too vague wordings for me -- both feel as nothing but an excuse for mass racial killings. Perhaps a bit similar to the usage of "bourgoisie" by the communists. If you mean the specific people who engaged in slavetrade or oversaw slaves, then yeah, I'd definitely justify it. More widely than that (e.g. the teacher who taught the slaveholders children, or the grocer who sold him vegetables) and that'd be a definite no, IMO.
At the point where you are targetting people not because they participated in the wrong, but because they felt indifferent to your plight... well that's a very good line not to come even near crossing. We'd all end up guilty in such judgements.
#42
In a muslim society, I would be marked for death. This is now, not the past, and hopefully not the future. That is the crux of the matter. So yea, convert the muslims to Christianity. I live in a Christian (some say Judeo-Christian, some say secular) society, not discriminated against, and do well. Islam says to the faithful to convert or kill the infidel, or if an adherent to the bible, to live as a dhimmi under severe discrimination and eventual extinction. All is permitted to that end. I could also live in a Buddhist or Shinto country and prosper, but I don't see these societies actively in the fight. Why should they get the converts if they don't do the work?
And Aris, what would you do when Greeks are bombed, beheaded and enslaved? Do you believe it is better to surrender and be a slave or convert, as many in the Balkans did? Do you think you would handle it as a police matter when the muslims destroy your cites and massacre your people? This is a definite possibility for Greece and Europe in your lifetime, so please give an honest answer. Do your mother and sister feel the same way?
So have Christian Serbs in Bosnia against Muslims, and Russians in Chechnya. Would that, according to you, justify a Muslim taking hostage and killing Christian people, just because they are Christians?
That's exactly what the muslims are already doing today. Do the same to them. Otherwise die a slow extinction. Many in Europe may welcome extinction, but I do not. Let those who by doctrine want to kill me, die instead. And have the muslims been attacking the Christian (and Jewish, and Buddhist, and Hindu) world for the past 1400 years or not?
Secondly, mass-murdering communists just because they happen to be communists would be as bad as mass-murdering muslims just because they are muslims.
But the US was willing to mass-murder 200 million communists just to keep them from invading western Europe. But I can see it was all a mistake now. All that money and all those millions of man-years wasted when Americans could have built bigger homes and fancier swimming pools. Let Americans never again be deluded in such and adventure in western Europe.
So, at which point in human history do you think that Judaism or Christianity should have been wiped out same as you are advocating to be done on Islam now?
Judaism and Christianity are for all practical purposes wiped out in the muslim world. Before Islam, most of the Middle East and North Africa was Christian or Jewish, including much of Arabia. But through invasion, periodic massacres and dhimmitude discrimination (e.g. the first Dhimmi farmers had 1/2 of their goods confiscated, so his family starved), there are almost no nonmuslims left. The few left live in areas where European colonialism held sway for 200 years.
Muslims were never a factor in Christian lands. Shall we bring out competing statistics on the numbers of Christians and Jews killed by Muslims in their conquests and the number of Muslims killed by Christians in the re-conquest of Spain or Jerusalem? If you want parity in dead bodies, then I think Christiandom has a big score to settle. Would you care to comment on the 60 million Hindus and Buddhists that I read were killed in the Moslem conquest of Central Asia. FYI, 60M was 20% of the world population. Do the Hindus now owe Islam 1.5 billion dead bodies? Or shall we forgive and forget and concentrate on the mayhem Islam is causing today?
Christianity came close to being wiped out in Europe, thanks in much to the stupidity of the Byzantines and the Greek Orthodox church. All the Poles had to do was stay home and the whole of northern and central Europe would have opened up for conquest.
Yeah, like it was other Christians that encouraged the murders that the Bosnian Serbs did.
What are you talking about? It is muslims who are participating, funding, and sheltering muslims in jihad against the west. It is muslims who take perverse pleasure in seeing falling towers, beheaded infidels, bombed jews, and dead Russian school children.
*Some* of Group A targetted *all* of Group B, therefore you feel it makes it okay for people of Group B to target *all* of Group A. Once again the same question: would the murder of all white people have been justified in slave-era America?
That's the definition of war. *Some* Japanese targeted American in 1941. Americans targeted *all* Japanese until absolute surrender, 2M Japanese were dead, and Japanese emperor worship and Bushido were destroyed. Sometimes the enemy doesn't even have to attack Americans, just a declaration that they will is enough. Witness Germany.
It was mostly white people fighting each other in the civil war and doing the killing. The southern salves did not revolt, though when the Union army tokk over parts of the South, a lot ran away and joined the army. In Haiti, where the slaves did revolt, the French men, women and children were killed. I have no problem with that.
So I have responded to many of your questions, why don't you do the same, and respond to the questions asked of you on this thread.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 21:06
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#43
Do you think you would handle it as a police matter when the muslims destroy your cites and massacre your people?
I'm already handling it as a WAR matter. And I quite understand that when you are bombing enemy cities in a war, occasionally your bombs go astray and innocents are killed.
Which is something quite different to intentionally digging through cellars, dragging out hiding innocent 12-year old Muslim boys and girls, and shooting their brains out if they refuse to convert to Christianity, which you and BH still seem to me to be advocating.
"If you want parity in dead bodies, then I think Christiandom has a big score to settle. "
No, I don't want parity in dead bodies. That's just sick of you.
"Before Islam, most of the Middle East and North Africa was Christian or Jewish, including much of Arabia. "
And before Christianity, most of Europe was pagan, and most of the Americas likewise, blah blah blah...
It is muslims who are participating, funding, and sheltering muslims in jihad against the west. It is muslims who take perverse pleasure in seeing falling towers, beheaded infidels, bombed jews, and dead Russian school children.
And just like I said, it was Christians that supported the Bosnian Serbs in Bosnia. And now it's Christian who are ready to take a perverse pleasure in the death of innocent muslims.
So what? Why should you consider *all* Christians or *all* Muslims guilty because of what *some* of them do?
would the murder of all white people have been justified in slave-era America? That's the definition of war.
No. War and murder are two different concepts.
But the US was willing to mass-murder 200 million communists just to keep them from invading western Europe. But I can see it was all a mistake now.
No, dearie -- given the nuclear exchange that might take place, the point was that the US was willing to destroy the *whole of the world*, not just 200 millions, in order to keep them from invading western Europe. I'll let others decide whether such a high-risks gamble (betting everything on whether the other side would be sane enough to consider you insane enough to go ahead with it) was a good one. It turned out for the best because those 200 millions *didn't* have to be killed, only threatened to be killed.
But I'd not want to live in a world, where the bluff was called and my children would be born with two heads and a tail. So don't use such an argument please, it's not your best one by far.
#44
Hmm. Is Western Civilization monolithic? Is there one core set of ideas, beliefs, and practices, adherence to which makes one a member of it, while departure (apparently) from one of those ideas makes one a non-member (as Aris seems to imply)? How far and upon whom do those ideas, beliefs, and practices apply? Is the actual set open to debate?
Here, I'd once drawn a map when I was bored: http://users.otenet.gr/~katsaris/misc/global-map.gif (though it's clumsy at spots)
In the legend, the bits and pieces that I consider "the West" and "Western civilisation" are the four blue-lettered groupings. Or you can call them "good guys". Or "the Free world". Whatever suits your fancy.
My own usage of "West" and "Western civilisation" I think owes more to the Cold War, and the protection of liberties in the chief leading countries of the so-called "West" which weren't found in either the Eastern bloc nor the Third World.
I'm not particularly interested in those definitions of "West" that seem instead to be used as synonyms for "Christendom". If Byzantium or the Papal states were "West", then no affection or loyalty on my part towards *those*.
#46
So when the muslims go digging through your cellars, dragging out innocent 12-year old Greek boys and girls, and shooting their brains out if they refuse to convert to Islam, you will handle it in a cool and Oh So Continental manner and maybe fight the terrorists/jihadis? Even if you win that battle, others will come, and massacre many more of you in you homes than you can kill of them. Without taking the fight to their homes and destroying the religion that will destroy you, you have acceded to the conditions of slow genocide.
And before Christianity, most of Europe was pagan, and most of the Americas likewise, blah blah blah...
And did Christian Crusaders conquer most of Europe with the sword? With the consent and approval of the Pope, did they sack the city you live in, kill the men, enslave and convert the children, and carry off the women for their sex slaves?
And just like I said, it was Christians that supported the Bosnian Serbs in Bosnia.
And just who were those Christians yelling for muslim heads? Were they in Europe, whose only action was inaction? Where were the Crusader Legions marching to vanquish the Bosnian muslims? Were they in the US, who eventually bombed the crap out of the Serbs? If the situation was reversed, can you think of any muslim country who would have come to the Serbs rescue?
would the murder of all white people have been justified in slave-era America? That's the definition of war.
No. War and murder are two different concepts.
Don't mix part of your question with the beginning of my response. That's sloppy.
But I'd not want to live in a world, where the bluff was called and my children would be born with two heads and a tail. So don't use such an argument please, it's not your best one by far.
You are right. You and your people would have been much better off standing in line all day for toilet paper and dreaiming one day to own a Trabant. And without external help from the US and other western democracies, that is where you would have been. Let me apologise to all who think like you: You were not worth it. Next time Greece or Old Europe is threatened, I will be on the picket lines protesting to stay the hell away from people like you. Let us part, and go our separate ways. May the new world and the old world never meet again.
Don't call me dearie. Makes you look gay. And in that case, I won't worry about you having children, two heads and a tail, or not.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 22:16
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#47
ed, you are a genocidal murderer at heart who keeps on urging for a "final solution" -- I've gotten that already. You think that religious conflict must be solved through religious genocide, you had no problem with racial conflict being solved with racial genocide, and I am not particularly interested in how many other genocides for different types of conflicts you are gonna be advocating in the future.
So, let me put it clearly so that you get it: I'm quite willing to go to war for my country's freedom but I'd DIE rather than commit genocide against innocents. So, if that's your best argument, that supposedly it's inevitable that "us" will have to kill all of "them" or "they" will kill all of "us", then even granting this assumption (which I'm not), your argument remains not good enough: Because I'd rather be among the innocent murdered rather than among the guilty murderers.
If accepting your murderous ideology is my only chance of survival, then why not accept the murderous ideology of the jihadis instead? Your counteroffer sucks as much as theirs.
Clear enough for you yet?
And as for your maniacal rantings they are simply *boring*. Yeah, yeah, we ungrateful Euros who don't see genocidal extermination as a good thing anymore, we don't bloody deserve you having helped us even if you were also helping yourselves in the process. Etc, etc, etc.
You are right. You and your people would have been much better off standing in line all day for toilet paper and dreaiming one day to own a Trabant.
Rather than incinerated you mean? Yes, I dare say that alive and with a chance at future rebellion might be better off than dead or radioactive.
#49
Just a quick comment on the whole "Convert or die" thing.
Early in 1492 A.D., King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain celebrated the final unification of all of Spain under Christian rule. One of their first acts to secure the security of their vastly expanded realm was to present the Mulsims and Jews with the choice, "Convert or die." I don't know about the Muslims, but the Jewish population split: part accepted the Cross, and became known to their new fellow religionists as New Christians, or more familiarly as Marranos (pigs); part refused to abandon their religion, and were expelled from the Iberian peninsula even as Chris Columbus was sailing toward the edge of the world.
The presence of the Marranos permently weakened Spanish society and religion. Because the Jews had converted under threat, their faith was (rightfully, in many cases) questioned. Their alliegence to the Crown was (rightfully) questioned. Their goals in interactions with their Christian overlords was (rightfully) questioned. Whereas in the past Spanish nobility had happily married Jewish beauties, now they became obsessed with the purity of their Christian lineage. The Inquisition was welcomed by the Old Christians as an instrument to root out false Christians, who secretly continued to hew to the beliefs they had not freely chosen to give up. And, incidently, rewarded monetarily the State which inherited the wealth of those convicted of impure belief, and rewarded those who turned them in -- increasing the oppression of the developing police state. The Church hierarchy itself was suspected (rightfully) of being tainted, as the clever converts joined priestly and monastery ranks, and turned their Talmudic argumentative techniques on Christian belief and traditions. In the end Spain, which had been given half the world to rule by the Pope, fell in on itself, driven off the cliff by the poison of American gold combined with the legitimate suspician that a good portion of the population was untrustworthy due to anger over being forced to convert in order to live.
Forcing conversion does not achieve changed mindset. For the overall society, the price is too high for the temporary comfort achieved by apparent removal of a real threat.
Sorry, I went on a good deal longer than a brief comment. But I hope you'll find these many words worth chewing over.
#50
If you're really interested in the "Christian" position on all of the above, go read the Sermon on the Mount (Bible, Matthew 5-7). Revenge isn't in there anywhere.
Reasonable law endorcement is in the Bible: "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of Man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good." 1 Peter 2:13-14 Every government is charged with the preservation of public order.
A story from the Liberian War of 1990: Mano and Gio tribesmen rebelled against the Krahn tribesmen currently in power. The Mano attacked a Krahn village and killed a number of people. A Krahn in Monrovia learned of the death of his family members in this raid, and when the Krahn officers ordered retaliation against Mano and Gio, this man went and shot his Mano neighbor and the neighbor's 9 month old son. Gee, didn't make him feel any better. He joined the Krahn militia and killed more Mano and Gio. Gee, now he really didn't feel better. In a refugee camp in Cote D'Ivoire, he found his tent was across the road from the widow of the neighbor he killed. At a camp church he asked the woman forgiveness, and she granted it.
The actions of an ethnic group that attends a particular church are not necessarily the actions of a Christian. The Serbs and Croats proved that point. Too often religious affiliation is simply another way of dividing "Us" from "Them." The protestants and Catholic goons in Northern Ireland have long since reduced their faith to a meaningless label.
Trailing Wife's description of Ferdinand and Isabella above shows that the Spanish Church and the Spanish Royal family lost sight completely of the teachings of Christ in their zeal to combine ethnic and religious conformity. Not faith--conformity.
Islam reeks of forced conformity. Maybe some of that rubbed off on the Spaniards during the Moorish occupation.
Let us defend ourselves reasonably. THis means military action to put Saddam out of business. This means military action to root out terrorist. It does not include going to your neighbor and shooting him.
#52
ed, you are a genocidal murderer at heart who keeps on urging for a "final solution" -- I've gotten that already. You think that religious conflict must be solved through religious genocide.
Nice try Aris, but no cigar. I call for the same treatment of Islam as Islam treats others. I am not a Euro-sheep who will go quietly into that abattoir of Islam. I have no problem with Buddhism, Confusianism, paganism or voodoo. If Islam had a live and let live attitude, I would have the same feelings for Islam as I have for Buddhism. But Islam is calling for the conversion or destruction (for me the only option) of the infidels, which are you and I. When muslim imams entreat for the destruction of the infidel each Friday. When the most revered muslim scholars, citing the cumulative works of Islam, call for the genocide of the monkeys and pigs. When muslim warriors slaughter populations in the most brutal way. When the muslim faithful cheer their barbarity and offer their children to suicide martyrdom as a gesture of religious piety. That is not a religion that one can peacefully co-exist with. So I call the same for them. You are a smart guy, so can understand symmetry.
Here are the options:
1. Islam suddenly reverses 1400 years of religious teachings and preaches that non-muslims are OK and have as much a right to live as muslims.
2. Islam continues its brutal form of warfare with non-muslims and wins.
3. Islam is destroyed and itâs adherents converted to another religion.
4. Continued warfare in the short term that will end up draining resources and taking thousands each year. Within a generation, nuclear warfare.
2 and 4 are not acceptable end states for me. The power to decide to live in peace with others rests wholey within the Islamic world. But what is their incentive for 1? Where are the imams calling for peace and brotherhood with the infidels? Where are the learned men of Islam calling for understainding of the lives and customs of the infidel? Islam are on the march and expanding territory with little opposition. Why give up a good thing? So I do not expect Islam to change their tune and call for peaceful co-existence until, just like Germany and Japan, much of it is destroyed and their belief systems forcibly changed. I am a pessimist in this regard.
Rather than incinerated you mean? Yes, I dare say that alive and with a chance at future rebellion might be better off than dead or radioactive.
You make the common mistake of either choosing the extremes of living under domination or dying. I, and many of countrymen, would rather fight and destroy the evil. Just as my fore fathers would not live under Nazism or Communist domination, I wonât live Islamic tyranny. But Greeks are used to living under domination. So go ahead and do nothing. Europe is already well on its way to muslim domination. If you and your kids survive the march of Islam into Europe, then maybe in 100 years our descendants will meet on the field of battle, yours under the flag of Islam.
Don't call me dearie. Makes you look gay.
Tough, sweetcheeks.
So you admit it.
Posted by: ed ||
10/14/2004 0:18
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#53
Nice try Aris, but no cigar. I call for the same treatment of Islam as Islam treats others
No, you called for the same treatment on Muslims as the most violent form of Islam calls on others. Which according to you does indeed mean religious genocide, as you spent two pages detailing.
Islam is calling for the conversion or destruction (for me the only option) of the infidels,
And you echoed their calls for conversion or destruction of the infidels word-for-word (except not allowing dhimmitude). That makes you a convert.
Where civilisational value is concerned, you are already a convert to the most aggressive and genocidal form of Islam there is, ed. There are hundreds of millions of muslims out there that are far less "Islamic" and far more tolerant in attitude about religious freedom than you are.
So you admit it.
Admit what? That I "look gay" to you? I am *really* not interested in how I look to you, dearie.
The rest is still just babble about how innocent Muslim children are not really innocent Muslim children after all: No matter how you detail the supposed need for the genocide, you've still not been able to deny the fact that what you describe does indeed entail dragging little children and shooting their brains out if they refuse to convert. Or perhaps some sort of gas chamber can be devised. Just don't ask what they've been burning to produce all that dust in the windowsills.
#54
Destroy Islam in the same way Nazism was destroyed. The fate of Islam will be the same as the fate of Nazism, dead and buried. Why were Nazi leaders executed and their subordinates jailed? Why were any professing loyalties to Nazism jailed in the west and executed in the east? Why were any signs of Nazism erased and suppressed for 50 years, and the people converted to democracy or communism? Why wasn't the structure of Nazi Germany left in place? Was it because the ideology itself was evil, and left alone, the ideology would reconstitute itself through propaganda, intimidation and brutality, much as Islam does today?
But unlike the harsh fate of Germans of 1945, I would give the muslims today the choice to profess that non-muslims have a right to live and then change their religion doctrine to act upon it. Those millions of muslims you speak of that are far less "Islamic" wonât have a problem declaring non-muslim have a right to live. Will they? The mullahs wonât mind stopping the cries for the blood of the infidels. Will they? Restructuring the religion to allow others to live, shouldnât kill them? Should it? As for the rest of the mullahs and those who follow them? They can die in battle and fulfill their religious obligations. As for the children? They believe what they are taught. Currently they are taught muslims are superior to all and infidels are sheep for the slaughter. They can be taught a better religion.
You can cry about future genocide or the historical slaughter such as Hamburg, but the only gas chambers belonged to the Nazis and the only genocide in this fight belongs to Islam and the slaughter of 100s of thousands of women and children prisoners at Jumna and Jajnagar, the cities completely depopulated and the inhabitants skulls stacked into heeps, or the modern day slaughter of millions by muslims.
And I donât see Old Europe doing much to stop it. Instead I see Europe selling nuclear and missile technology to Iran, who has flat out declared they will commit genocide of the Jews and won't hesitate to use them on the Americans. But you would choose to lay in the same bed with those who seek to kill you. Do you think by doing nothing, they will spare you, at least until you are the last? Good night and Sleep light.
Posted by: ed ||
10/14/2004 2:36
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#55
I'm sure Aris realized how "dangerous" my thoughts were, and so decided to only answer the question of geographical extent, rather than the above-cited question that related to the corpus of ideas that make up "Western Civilization", behavior contrary to which is supposed to destroy the foundation Western Civilization, rendering it unfit and unworthy of Aris' support
Ptah, at this point you are wanking again: If you had actually read my posts again you'd see I answered you with individual liberties as the crucial ideological point I mentioned.
But the rest of your post about the difference between ed and me is more accurate, though I would describe it differently: I'd say that Ed is all about the collective ("they" collectively did something bad so "we" have the right to collectively punish "them"), while I am all about the individual. There is no collective "them" over the whole of Islam that did something bad.
Preemption or lack of preemption has little to do with the concept of individual liberties. But the presence or lack of genocidal warfare *does* have to do with it -- people who believe in collectives where individuals are nothing but object-instances (to use a programmatic term) of their races/nations are definitely more eager to genocide, same way they are more eager to nationalistic insults. That's ed's lasting attitude: he's several times resorted to grouping me with either the Euros or the Greeks in this threads, same way he's grouped all Muslims together. That's the only way his mind can work.
On my part I will never accept to group all Muslims into a single "they" when talking about blame attributed for crimes. I'm *all* about the individual.
"How does that jive with the western ideal of tolerance for different ideas?"
Because I am not asking ed to be jailed or executed for his genocidal opinions, *that's* how it jives with the western ideal of tolerance.
ed> You are still maniacal and you are still babbling.
Those millions of muslims you speak of that are far less "Islamic" wonât have a problem declaring non-muslim have a right to live. Will they?
No, those *millions* individually won't have such a problem. The problem is that you demand that the whole religion collectively changes before you allow even one of them to live. That's what makes you a genocidal murderer in your ideology.
An individual that proclaims your right to live but nonetheless doesn't manage to change his fellow billion of believers, should still die according to you.
You are still all about the collective.
Ptah> "Does Aris hold that despite such a "code of silence", all Inguishians who adhere to that code are NOT GUILTY by cooperation, support, and association?
Can you find *which* Ingushetians are guilty of adhering to this code, or are you again for collective punishments?
If he cites past history happening to them as "justification", why does citing history somehow NOT JUSTIFY what other people do?
Somehow I fail to remember a single incident of me ever citing history as "justification" for any terrorist act. That would oppose the very core of my belief system.
In fact, I've gone back and looked more closely at your points, and I see where my problem with you is, and it IS my fault entirely: you use a lot of counterfactual reasoning and arguments with little preface, making me believe you AGREE with them.
Okay, you may think I'm bullshitting you or making fun of you, but I'm not, honestly: I apologize, and confess that I have misunderstood you. My very poor excuse is that I skim too much in an attempt to cover as much internet ground in the little time I have, and for penitence, if I object to something you have said, I'll re-read it, repeat it back, and ask for clarification before I say anything.
If you're skeptical of my sincerity, well, I don't blame you a bit, and you have every right to expect that my actions should prove my words. Time will just have to tell based on opportunity.
#57
I'm with Ed and Ptah. Aris is a whiner. Nothing out there is "fair," and he'll never be happy. The water is too wet, the air is too gassy, and there's no way to fight a "fair" war because the tendency of self interest has always lead to wars of "some" or "few" against "many" or "all."
Life's a bitch; suck it up and accept reality instead of expecting some sort of world that works according to "moral absolutes." Or else, just admit that your entire conceptualization of the universe is that of a perfect distopia.
Or, as usual, you could just admit you believe it's all America's fault. That little anectode about a one-nation nuclear arms race was a little telling. And yes, I think Ptah's right about the counterfactual reasoning and argument against conclusion.
It's a little like shitting in bed and pushing it down with your feet.
#58
Ptah> This is gracious of you. I'll believe you and consider the slate wiped clean, if you do the same about any insults I may have sent your way in the past. Thank you, and apology more than accepted.
Asedwich> I don't know what "argument against conclusion" means and I only figured the meaning of "counterfactual reasoning" through context and a bit of googling -- but I think I understood Ptah's last post better than you did.
#59
Thanks Aris. Everyone else may think I've gone off the deep end, but I think you understand that I'm not blanket agreeing with you, but merely saying that I may have misunderstood you. We very likely will disagree, because there are cultural factors between us that will motivate us to choose different solutions, but it is better that we disagree based on a true understanding of each other's position, rather than misunderstanding each other and waste our precious time taking ill-advised potshots at scarecrows and other straw men.
WASH TIMES: U.S. security officials are investigating a recent intelligence report that a group of 25 Chechen terrorists illegally entered the United States from Mexico over summer... Members of the group, said to be wearing backpacks, secretly traveled to northern Mexico and crossed into a mountainous part of Arizona, Gertz to report in Page One Splash, newsroom sources tell DRUDGE...
I checked the Washington Times website, nothing there as of 11:55p.m. http://www.washtimes.com/.
Posted by: trailing wife ||
10/13/2004
12:01:30 AM ||
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#2
This hit team no doubt dissipated into our interior with private cars brought to them by their cellular collaborators. Should they be successful in their 'mission' and all are confirmed to be Chechens; A Clear and Grounded declaration of a national response would be warranted (in concert with Russia) for a final Chechnya 'solution'!
#3
Fred, moderators: The article has now been posted on the Washington Times site, so I have posted it here (Page 2, Home Front WoT). Please either put both posts on p.1 or p.2, as you see fit. Thanks!
The former governor of an Afghanistan province has gone before a U.S. military panel to determine whether he should remain held as an enemy combatant, a Pentagon official said Tuesday. A 37-year-old who was the governor of western Herat province from 1999 to 2001 appeared before the panel Monday, said Navy Lt. Cmdr. Daryl Borgquist, a spokesman for the Combatant Status Review Tribunals. The military does not identify individual prisoners at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. However, the governor of Herat from 1999 until the fall of the Taliban regime in 2001 was Khairullah Khaikhwa. He was arrested in a Pakistani village near the Afghan border in 2002. Borgquist said the prisoner who appeared Monday had been at Guantanamo for about two years. Borgquist said the prisoner had control over police and military operations in Herat, including the Taliban's two largest military divisions, which apparently made him an enemy combatant. No media members attended his hearing, and details of his testimony were not released.
I wonder if he was the guy in charge when the Talibs were crucifying people?
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:56:12 PM ||
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French President Jacques Chirac said Tuesday his country is "entirely committed" to taking part in an international conference on Iraq next month.
Who asked you?
Chirac called on foreign ministers to work out the details and participants for the conference, which Iraqi leaders have recommended and U.S. officials support. "France is entirely committed to participating," he told reporters during a brief stop in Hong Kong. He said the conference "was proposed by France and Russia together a year or year and a half ago."
Which means they were planning the confab right about the time we were pulling down Sammy's statue. Hopefully they have the menu finished and the linens all picked out.
Egypt plans to host the conference in late November, and participants are to include Iraq, its neighbors, plus China, the European Union, the United Nations, the Arab League and the Organization of the Islamic Conference.
I can't wait to see duly elected Afghan President Hamid Karzai stride into the room and look the members of the dictators' club right in the eye.
France was one of the leading opponents of the Iraq war and has refused to send forces into the country after the ouster of Saddam Hussein. In Paris, a French Foreign Ministry spokesman said France had not yet received an invitation for the conference.
"You have the invitation, Marvin?"
"Right here, Mr. Secretary."
"Nice work. Put it in a safe place."
Oh, we sent out the invitationas, all right. But the French postal service was prolly on strike.
The attackers in three explosions on Egypt's Sinai Peninsula last week all fled minutes before their vehicles blew up, Egypt's biggest newspaper reported Wednesday, contradicting reports that suicide bombers carried out the attacks. None of the four attackers has been apprehended, Al-Ahram reported for Wednesday editions. It said the truck that struck the Taba Hilton hotel, the deadliest of the coordinated attacks, contained 1,100 pounds of TNT hidden under crates of vegetables. The bombs used at Ras Shitan to the south — one in a Peugeot 504 car and another in a Nissan pickup truck — both contained a more volatile explosive that is less common in Egypt, Al-Ahram said. The report in the pro-government newspaper cited a senior official familiar with the findings of interior ministry investigators. Israeli officials earlier said they believed all three bombings were suicide attacks.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:54:06 PM ||
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I once owned a Peugeot Diesel 504. I fully understand why someone would want to blow it up.
A pipeline carrying crude oil across the unruly Niger delta region to Nigeria's main export terminal has burst and is on fire, Shell and a local leader said on Tuesday. The 70cm Trans-Niger pipeline carrying crude from wells in southern Nigeria to Shell's Bonny oil export terminal was reported to be leaking on Monday, company officials said. "We sent a team of experts to cap the leak but were prevented by youths in the community," a Shell spokesman said, speaking on condition of anonymity. But a local ethnic leader insisted that the firm's engineers had not yet arrived, but simply flown over the area in a helicopter. "Up until the time I am speaking to you nothing has been done about it. Containment measures have not been taken," he said, denying there had been any local protest to prevent Shell gaining access to the site.
#1
Salutations and good thoughts Nigerian goverment! You have been recommend to me as of good charecter and pure thought by trusted sources. Please email me with bank account numbers and other personal government financial information and perhaps I can put your oil fire out.
Three suspected Saudi militants armed with guns and hand grenades including one militant on the country's most-wanted list were killed in a clash with Saudi security forces, officials said Tuesday. Seven police officers were wounded in the confrontation with the militants, who were hiding on the second floor of a house in eastern Riyadh, according to an Interior Ministry statement. Officials identified one of the militants as Abdul-Majeed Mohammed Abdullah al-Moneea, No. 18 on Saudi Arabia's list of 26 most-wanted terror suspects. Ministry spokesman Brig. Gen. Mansour al-Turki said al-Moneea was a member of an al-Qaida-affiliated group. "He belonged to the legislative committee that issued fatwas (edicts) sanctioning the killing of people," al-Turki said. "Investigative authorities have proved his participation in assassinations and his insistent pursuit to recruit operatives who would serve his deviant thoughts."
Pretty convenient, issuing fatwahs for yourself to observe...
Al-Moneea's killing was a major coup for Saudi authorities, who have launched an aggressive crackdown on al-Qaida-affiliated militants. His death leaves 10 of the list's 26 on the run. Also killed in the raid was Abdul-Hamid al-Yehya, who al-Turki said provided safehouses for suspected militants. "He used women and children in those houses to mislead authorities," al-Turki said. "He also forged many documents to cover up the criminal activities of those people." The third militant was Issam al-Otaibi, who al-Turki said was extradited a few weeks ago for "carrying out unacceptable activities abroad." He did not say from which country al-Otaibi was extradited or elaborate on the charges. He said that after the extradition, al-Otaibi signed an affidavit saying he did not belong to any militant group and pledging to abide by the country's regulations. "But then authorities found out he had reneged on his promise and had turned his home into a den for criminal activities for the (militants)," al-Turki said.
"He lied to us, Mahmoud! He lied! Can ya believe it?"
The police commander in the raid, Lt. Col. Mudhif al-Talhi, was wounded, but not seriously, security officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity. The security forces evacuated seven women and a child whom the militants had placed on the first floor of the house "to use as shields and to mislead the security forces," the statement said, quoting an unnamed Interior Ministry official. It said security forces surrounded the house after suspecting that "men belonging to the misguided group" a phrase used to describe militants were in the house. "When they began searching the house, they came under heavy machine gun fire," said the statement, adding that the attackers also used hand grenades.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:48:31 PM ||
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al-Otaibi: Deported from Iran, I betcha. They keep saying they're shipping Soddis back.
#1
I think I can honestly say that Derrida meant nothing to me...
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004 12:34
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Given the illimitable play of signs, "nothing" denies an absence of "being" or "Dasein". Yet in the Heideggerian sense, a "trace" of "being", especially a "being" attached to a soul as strong as Derrida's, will always remain...
#3
What is deconstruction? Mr. Derrida would never say. It was a question certain to spark his contempt and ire. He denied that deconstruction could be meaningfully defined.
You can almost see him thinking in that picture, "Do I have the perfect scam going, or what?"
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:46:31 PM ||
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Poor Haiti! stepchild of the western hemisphere.
When Toussaint l'Overture threw out the French in 1804, the various world powers would neither recognize nor assist the new country, because the slave owning powers didn't want to recognize a slave revolt as legitimate. Haiti slipped almost immediately into anarchy, ignorance, and voodoo for two centuries. I'm not sure whether it's ignorance or desperation, maybe both, that causes people who could earn $7 from a tree's fruit, to cut the tree down before it fruits for $3 in charcoal.
Those Israelis who endured the routine Palestinian terror attacks that Saddam so lavishly rewarded might disagree rather pointedly with Blix's idiotic statements.
UN officials have an ability to make completely self-contradictory pronouncements that go well beyond mere stupidity or typically ingrained political bias. Once and for all time, the UN's dithering and limp-wristed posturing over Darfur has shown these overpaid and underworked drones for what they truly are. Namely, blood-sucking parasites who shamelessly feast upon abject human misery as they prostitute themselve to terrorist Arab anti-Semitism.
If the UN's entire diplomatic corps were to perish amidst unspeakably agonizing and hideously brutal slow torture, I probably would still find it within myself to applaud with great vigor. Especially so if Kofi Annan headed the queue. These leeches have supped upon human flesh with their grotesque mockery of international peacekeeping. May they one and all rot in firey hell.
#8
Well, considering that Blix hasn't been right about anything for more than 10 years.
What with Iraq's many and sundry varieties of WMDs being dismantled while Hans was busy taking bribes. And shipped to the Bekkaa weeks before Shock & Awe.
I have trouble adding to his credibility streak right now.
Jack.
Posted by: Jack Deth ||
10/13/2004 2:23
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I always wondered how much Hans Blix was paid since so many others at the U.N. were on Saddam's payroll and demanded Bush not remove Saddam for 'diplomatic' reasons....of course.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004 5:16
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Not only didn't he get the Peace Prize, but apparently no Oil for Food bribes either. Irrelevent and poor -- a bad, sad combination!
#12
Rafael-
Naw, we'll all just join Hans and sing...
"Kumbayah, my Lord, kumbayah..."
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/13/2004 9:56
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This from a man whose very name has become synonymous with expressions meaning "To screw up", "To be wrong on every count", "To be hopelessly mistaken". As in, "You really stepped on your Blix."
#14
Naw, we'll all just join Hans and sing... "Kumbayah, my Lord, kumbayah..."
Would Hans Blix even call upon the Lord for anything at all? Is he religious?
Posted by: Steve from R ||
10/13/2004 12:29
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But Hans... the Iraq War did put Col. Qaddaffy off his nuclear ambitions. That's not too shabby considering NO ONE KNEW he had them in the first place.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:42:28 PM ||
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#1
Time to react. Time to really start suppressing votes. Challenge all convicts, illegal aliens, multi-registrants, and don't care if you get screamed at in the face by an ACLU piece of manure at the polls. Registration lists aer public, and have to be available to anyone willing to pay. If the Dems want trouble. They can have it. We have to identify all judges as to how they are. Be ready with our own folks to file for injunctions. Since it's apparently the GOP vs the Mexican PRI this year, unfortunately election day may be violent. God help us.
Between the AFL-CIO goons, and the ACLU Totalitarian Bastards we are between a rock & a hard place
I am sick of all of this. Now Drudge has Nevada fraud
So that adds to Colorado
Ohio
Iowa
Pennsylvania
Florida
Wisconsin
Washington State
Michigan
where ther has been vandalism, burgularies, or registration or absentee fraud.
Enough already.
#2
This on top of the brown shirt tactis used by the Dems. If, and it is a big if, John Kerry is elected, there will first be a massive lawsuit against the votes and the fraud followed by an armed uprising. I doubt normal people are just going to sit by and watch the media other left wing groups take over by force and fraud.
I am afraid you are right. As civilized people we get angry, and we will use legal methods if there is a cheat, but unlike Florida, which was an attempt by a bew crooked election officials in Derm counties trying to invoke "Johnny Carson's Carnac", to steal one state on ballots that were scratched, this seems to be a co-orinated coup attempt at the highest levels. I am sadly coming to that conclusion. Some folks may get voilent if there is a definite cheat. This is tragic in the time of terrorism, that the PRI party of Kerry is only concerned with gaining power to tell people how to live their lives. Look out for Ohio, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin as the locus of the cheat.
By the way, the Nevada story is blaming Republicans for tossing out and shredding Dem registrations. As if that is the only incidence? Just the opposite is happening here in CAL with Dems, the ones with a shread of honor telling Reps to go register someplace else. Since they are in a distinct minority, one only wonders how many GOP registrations have been tossed out by these PRI representatives here.
When one registers here one should be careful as to where one goes. Regoistration can still be done here until Oct 18 (5 days), so if you are GOP in CAL, go to the POST Office, fill it out and mail it yourself!!!!!
US forces hammered rebel positions in Iraq's Sunni Muslim hotbeds of Fallujah and Ramadi, killing 11 people, as the disarming of Shiite militiamen gathered pace in Baghdad despite US warnings of internal rifts. As the US military went on the offensive Tuesday in the Sunni heartland of Iraq, an Islamist group, Ansar Al-Sunna, posted a video on the Internet showing the beheading of a Shiite Iraqi man it accused of spying for US forces.
Well, that should certainly stop the offensive...
US warplanes struck Fallujah, the epicenter of the Sunni Muslim rebellion, three times and raided at least seven mosques in Ramadi, arresting a senior cleric. Warplanes dropped a 500-pound (250-kilo) bomb on insurgents on the eastern fringes of the city after a firefight late Tuesday, a military spokesman said. A first raid targeted Al-Haj Hussein restaurant in central Fallujah, famous across central Iraq for its kebabs. Four people were killed and six wounded, including restaurant staff, hospital sources said.
Bet the take-out business goes up tomorrow.
The US military said it was a known meeting place for Iraq's most wanted militant, Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, and his radical Unity and Holy War group. Four hours later, US aircraft returned to strike the battle-scarred city, destroying a suspected Zarqawi hideaway, the military said. Also in the restive Al-Anbar province of western Iraq, US marines and Iraqi forces carried out predawn raids on at least seven mosques in Ramadi, sparking shootouts in which two Iraqis were killed, the military and hospital sources said. The Association of Muslim Scholars, an influential Sunni body which represents 3,000 mosques, said the Americans and Iraqis had arrested their representative for Al-Anbar province, Sheikh Abdul al-Aleem al-Sadi, and his son. The organisation said troops had raided 30 mosques across Ramadi, but the US marines had no immediate confirmation.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:37:02 PM ||
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Definitely a pre-election slow-down.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 7:58
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Say, can anybody create an animated gif where those females morph into raisins?
#4
Don't worry Spemble Haliburton feeding 'em good American food and making a fortune at the same time. I advise to you to buy stock. And have another cookie.
No idea if this qualifies as WoT, but has some of the hallmarks: mounting tensions, veiled diplo threats, potential vast natural resources at stake...plus our friends the "North Africans."
Algeria accused Morocco on Monday of intensifying a war of words between the two countries as tensions mount over the disputed territory of Western Sahara. "All we can do it express our very strong disappointment in the escalation of speeches by Morocco," Foreign Minister Abdelaziz Belkhadem told state radio. "Even if we disagree on the question of Western Sahara it should not be used to abuse us too much because the Algerian people only wants the good for the Moroccan people," he said.
Relations have worsened since South Africa last month decided to establish full diplomatic ties with the Saharan Arab Democratic Republic (SADR), dealing a blow to Rabat's claim over the territory. Morocco seized Western Sahara in 1975 after former colonial power Spain pulled out. This triggered a 16-year-long guerrilla war with the Polisario Front, which set up the SADR as what it hoped would be independent territory. Algiers, long a backer of the Western Sahara independence movement based in southwest Algeria, has rejected allegations by Moroccan newspapers that it wants to expand its territory and is building up its armed forces at the border and provoking an arms race by the purchase of MiG fighter jets. Belkhadem said on Sunday Algeria had no intention of going to war with Morocco.
"No, no! Certainly not! Those are just, um, ... training missions!"
#3
â¦the Saharan Arab Democratic Republic (SADR)â¦
*chokes back snarky comments*
Posted by: Steve from Relto ||
10/13/2004 10:58
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That SADR is funny, it sounds like our idiot Shia Thug friend Tator, as well as an accurate description of most african nations. Things are just Sadder there.
Rolled up the entire Iraqi army in ten days, with minimal casualties — so let the nay-saying and fault-finding begin...
Front-line U.S. troops often lacked access to surveillance and intelligence data during the invasion of Iraq because of computer glitches, Technology Review magazine reported on Tuesday, citing a largely classified report by Rand Corp.
I think I'll go bang my head against the wall for awhile. It'll feel so good when I stop. We had tighter integration of intel and recon than any army's ever had before, but it wasn't perfect, so there must be fault to be found...
One battalion commander told the magazine he had almost no information on the strength and position of Iraqi forces after his division took control of a key bridge south of Baghdad on April 2, 2003. Lt. Col. Ernest Marcone said he was told to expect one Iraqi brigade advancing south from the Baghdad airport, but instead was forced to battle three separate Iraqi brigades advancing from three directions, the magazine reported. What ensued was the largest counterattack of the Iraq war. U.S. troops won because of their superior weapons, greater firepower and air support, but not because they had any real insight into enemy positions through new technology, the magazine said. "Next to the fall of Baghdad, that bridge was the most important piece of terrain in the theater, and no one can tell me what's defending it," Marcone told the magazine. "Not how many troops, what units, what tanks, anything. There's zero information getting to me." Marcone's experience was typical, according to a largely classified report being prepared for the Pentagon by the Rand Corp, which concludes that front-line commanders often did not benefit from cutting-edge technologies. These were aimed at moving toward a smaller, smarter fighting force connected by advanced communications systems.
... and he apparently didn't have them. But he did have other communications, that went two ways. So older-fashioned means were used to save his bacon...
Walter Perry, a senior Rand researcher, told the magazine the report uncovered a "digital divide" that allowed division commanders to get a good view of the battlefield, but left front-line commanders basically in the dark. The problems preventing effective relaying of crucial data included lengthy download times, software failures and lack of access to high-bandwidth communications. Pentagon officials highlighted the success of networked forces during the Iraq war, including the case of a U.S. radar plane detecting Iraqi troops during a blinding sandstorm and ordering in bombers using satellite-guided bombs. But the report found that ground forces had serious problems getting access to vital intelligence and surveillance data. In three cases, U.S. vehicles were attacked when they stopped to receive data on enemy positions, it said.
Look hard enough and you can always find something to criticize. I imagine the problems are being worked out.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:26:51 PM ||
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One battalion commander told the magazine he had almost no information on the strength and position of Iraqi forces after his division took control of a key bridge south of Baghdad on April 2, 2003.
Isn't that what patrols are for? And isn't it a manuever battalion commander's duty to see to it intel is gathered in this time honored way? Are operational commanders now relying solely on information they are given from above?
Lt. Col. Ernest Marcone said he was told to expect one Iraqi brigade advancing south from the Baghdad airport, but instead was forced to battle three separate Iraqi brigades advancing from three directions, the magazine reported.
Sounds like at least one of the briagdes were found, the other began movement later. The Iraqi commander controlling those units must have staggered their movement.
What ensued was the largest counterattack of the Iraq war. U.S. troops won because of their superior weapons, greater firepower and air support, but not because they had any real insight into enemy positions through new technology, the magazine said.
I guess you can sit and become knowledgable about the enemy's intentions as they manuver closer to you up to point but sooner or later you gotta fight.
"Next to the fall of Baghdad, that bridge was the most important piece of terrain in the theater, and no one can tell me what's defending it," Marcone told the magazine. "Not how many troops, what units, what tanks, anything. There's zero information getting to me."
This doesn't sound like a US commander talking. It seems to me this guy may have been grossly misquoted to make this article work. Every battalion commander in every army worldwide knows the best intel is from patrols. You may have satellites and you may have STARS, but when its time to fight, the best info is obtained through patrols and scouts.
Following Gulf War I (you know, the one with the "grand coalition" in which the US performed exactly the same percentage -- most -- of the actual fighting as the recent Iraq war, but which was largely paid for by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and a few others -- for which the elder Bush's admin. was admonished for going "cup in hand" to the world in an unseemly way ...) the WaPo had a front-page article on bomb accuracy. The story basically tried to build itself on the hook that post-war BDA assessments had shown direct hit percentages less than the public must have believed from viewing the dramatic video of smart bombs hitting targets. Can't recall the figures, but the story presented the preliminary stats as showing that the hit percentage was "only" such-and-such -- a number that was multiples of any hit percentage achieved in any previous war since the invention of the aircraft.
Perhaps others here will be able to confirm/debunk this, but I also recall the post-Gulf War non-story to follow up on literally years and years of negative reporting on the Maverick missile. I believe "whistle-blowing" stories on that system were a staple of 60 Minutes and even the defense press for eons. But in Kuwait, there was this odd phenomenon of Iraqi (Soviet design, mostly) armored vehicles/tanks being found flipped upside down (or their turrets popped off). With a shallow crater along side. Seems the over-budget, over-schedule, seriously flawed, hopelessly ineffective Mavericks had achieved kinetic kills on the vehicles (their penetration was so good) and the warheads had exploded underneath when they hit the ground, flipping some of the vehicles over.
And of course we all knew the Abrams couldn't operate in the desert, because the dust would screw up the turbines, right? I do recall taunting a few deserving types after the Gulf War by asking them if they thought the Iraqi generals were believers in the US hardware that had been maligned and nitpicked to death during the 80s buildup ....
#3
Yeah we won easy. against a third world army subject to years of sanctions, and largely unwilling to fight. This is NOT to disparage the courage or efficiency of our troops, or the qualities of weapons, intell, etc. But IF we go to war with a "worthy adversary", say China, its gonna be too late to do post-mortems then. This is the chance after a real war to nit pick ANYTHING that might have gone wrong. Seems like a good thing to do.
#4
Fault finding and lesson learning is why we have the best military in the world likely to increase its qualitative superiority against its challengers. It's also the way contractors sell more goods and services to the DOD. Private vice becomes a public virtue.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 9:12
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There's a difference between doing a post-mortem to improve your process and conducting a hunt for a scapegoat. The press is incapable of doing the former, and will simply treat any attempt at it as the latter.
I'd think you'd have realized that by now, LH. The press is not on our side.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/13/2004 9:19
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"the press" didnt do the postmortem. Rand did. And was quoted in Technology review, where the concern of readers is probably less with Bush vs Kerry than with "are there procurement opportunities for my systems integrations business?". Rooters headline may be a bit overdone, but its hardly a scapegoat hunt. Some folks need to thicken their skins just a bit.
#7
LH is right. The benefits of free speech vastly outweigh its costs. And there are costs; the curent drumbeat of negativity being one of them. But the boomers will soon be gone from power in the unacountable estates like the press and academe.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 9:28
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#8
I just want to know how they manage to keep any computerized units functioning in that environment without overheating or gunked up by that powdery sand.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 10:33
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Lt. Col. Ernest Marcone is mentioned quite a bit in the paper as is an analysis of tech used in the conflict. I find the Army to be one of the few very large organizations willing to show public displays of introspection. Which is one of the reasons they are so damn good.
#10
PH--Wow--great link! Thanks--the history in this alone is fascinating. Very encouraging for a civvie like me to see yet another demonstration of how professional our professional military is.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 11:20
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#11
The first step in learning from mistakes is to acknowledge mistakes were made.From there you can try to figure out how to fix the problem.
Which is something Kerry is unable to see.The US military learned from its experience in Viet Nam and the Soviets' in Afghanistan how not to fight a lightly armed foe in difficult ground.Evidently Kerry wanted the US to line up the Army shoulder to shoulder and march thru the Afghan hills while the First Armored Div. cruised the streets of Kabul.
Altho I find it disturbing that a lack of recon info getting to the sharp end has persisted from the Gulf War to the Iraq War.(I found it astonishing how often written accounts of Gulf War stated US troops encountered Iraqi forces unexpectantly-considering we had complete control of air and @ 10% world's helos in theatre.)Hopefully the US Army is in midst of changing recon data going directly to Div.HQ,then being dispersed downstream,to data being collected by combat battalion assests and then being sent to higher HQs.I suppose the Army may prefer the data being sent to everyone at once,but I would rather the local recon assets be at Batt. level.
Posted by: Stephen ||
10/13/2004 13:00
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Altho I find it disturbing that a lack of recon info getting to the sharp end has persisted from the Gulf War to the Iraq War.(I found it astonishing how often written accounts of Gulf War stated US troops encountered Iraqi forces unexpectantly-considering we had complete control of air and @ 10% world's helos in theatre.)Hopefully the US Army is in midst of changing recon data going directly to Div.HQ,then being dispersed downstream,to data being collected by combat battalion assests and then being sent to higher HQs.I suppose the Army may prefer the data being sent to everyone at once,but I would rather the local recon assets be at Batt. level.
The basic problem in battlefield reconnaisence is the concept of space and time. You can get a complete picture of a battlefield from a variety of means, and develop faster and better ways of conveying the information to battalion commanders, but after that process is done, the only thing you have is a snap shot of the battlefield. It may be accurate at the time it was taken, but computers cannot mesh through the acquired the data, and humans are required to sort through and make the assessments. You will have errors in either case.
You add to that passing the information amoungst command levels, from a theatre recon team to an army/corps command to operational HQs and then getting the info to the warfighters, company and platoon commanders, and it all may be information they just don't need to win a fight.
I suspect this electronic recon is best applied to logisticians making sure combat units get the fuel, beans and bullets they need to win a fight, Doctrine, training and battalion-acquired recon will win the tactical battles.
#14
Didn't read any of these particular articles in question but since I have to write how our guys use this stuff for a living, this is my two cents worth. We do tend to dig the peanuts out of our crap to the point of over reacting in the wrong direction, that being said, we could not have fought this war to the level we did without the same systems that are being criticized. That was a major part of the problem was that because we outperformed the old fashioned stuff so well, we didn't have any choice but to overload the systems to get the job done.
As far as the patrolling aspect mentioned most of these units were running to fast to conduct recon in the traditional fashion. There are far too many cases of us over running units before they could stand to as they got word of our approach.
Take all this with a grain of salt, we got it, we are working it.
It's time to do that now. The country's relatively pacified and they've had their election. We can move on to the next problem, while maintaining a force to hunt for al-Qaeda. Looks like Bush has an exit strategy in mind...
... and he'll be blamed for it too ...
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:23:29 PM ||
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"RELATIVELY" pacified. While the election went off well, Im not sure that things are quiet in the rural areas of the Pashtun provinces. This sounds a tad premature, even if its a smart way to push the Euros to relieve overstretch.
#2
This is a well conceived strategy to keep NATO's skin in the game, so they don't go limp or cut and run -- their first instinct.
Posted by: Capt America ||
10/13/2004 8:59
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LH, If it goes south, it's NATO's fault. If NATO's ineffective, replace it with bi-lateral agreements with alies and let France and the rest join China and turn Muslim. That seems like motivation to NATO to get it right.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 9:07
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NATO is ineffective is not a binary thing, Mrs D. Nato is effective at SOME things. In afghanistan its done a decent job patrolling Kabul, and a couple of other places. Its NOT effective at aggressive actions in the mountains against the Taliban. At least not AFAIK. I dont think its worth it taking risks in Afghanistan to try to prove some point about NATO.
#5
If NATO cannot engage in military operations other than being heavy policemen, we should get out. By the 2005-2006 time frame, things should be pretty tame. If the Taliban & Co. return, we can too. Time for the Euros to share the burden here or show their true colors.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 9:22
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NATO was designed to engage in military operations in EUROPE. And the North Atlantic. NOT to engage in counter insurgency ops several thousand miles from Europe. That theyve done as well as they have in Afghanistan is a good thing. Maybe they need to refocus. Saying here, take this NOW, or we get out is shortsighted in the extreme.
BTW, its JUST what the French want. They want Euro interventions overseas to be under the EU, NOT Nato. To reduce US influence. UK isnt keen on that approach. If we are wise, we will continue to discourage that, and support Nato.
As for being able to return if the Taliban does, thats not a good idea. There are folks in Afghanistan whove taken risks for us. If the Taliban takes control of an Afghan city for one week, alot of our friends will pay with their lives. When we come back we may find some reluctance to help us.
Things should be pretty tame by 2006? I hope so, but like Rummy says, war is by its nature unpredictable.
#7
Nato is effective at SOME things. In afghanistan its done a decent job patrolling Kabul, and a couple of other places. Its NOT effective at aggressive actions in the mountains against the Taliban
Fine, then let's keep 1,000 or so special forces in the mountains and the border regions to the south. The bigger point is that the really labor-intensive tasks-- like policing Kabul and other cities-- should be done by NATO, allowing us to move thousands of troops elsewhere.
This news shall be reposted at midnight so the day shift can review it.
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Wednesday, October 13th, 2004
The U.S. military has used Iraq to test a precision bomb designed for targets in urban areas and producing minimal collateral damage.
The U.S. Air Force has conducted the first successful drop of a GBU-38 bomb in combat during a recent mission in Iraq. The bombs were deployed on two F-16 multi-role fighters, which performed a simultaneous GBU-38 release on the same target in central Iraq.
Officials said the 500-pound bombs precisely hit a two-story building occupied by the Tawhid and Jihad group in Faluja with minimal collateral damage. They said this was the first time a GBU-38 was deployed in a demonstration of a smaller munition meant to reduce collateral damage in urban areas, Middle East Newsline reported.
"This was the right weapon for the job," the lead pilot who carried out the mission, identified only as Lt. Col. Mitch, said. "If we used any bigger of a bomb, we would have caused unnecessary damage."
Officials said the GBU-38 provides the U.S. military with a smaller precision weapon for use against urban targets. They said the bomb, which could be deployed on the F-16, would allow for precision strikes at night.
The GBU-38 is composed of an MK-82 with the Joint Direct Attack Munitions guidance system. Officials said the GBU-38 was regarded as much lighter and easier to assemble than most of the other munitions loaded on F-16s. The GBU-38 was said to be significantly smaller and lighter than the GBU-12 and the GBU-31.
"This is a relatively easy bomb to drop," Mitch said. "We simply set the coordinates and deliver the bomb. There's a slight shake in the jet as the bomb is released because [of] the sudden weight reduction, which happens after every drop."
The bomb has been sought by Middle East allies. (not sure about allowing that..
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
11:20:45 PM ||
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Mark, This is a week old, was covered then and has nothing to do with oil futures. What's the point?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/22/2004 10:52
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Investigators have conducted their first scientific exhumation of Iraq's "killing fields," discovering hundreds of bodies which they hope will help convict Saddam Hussein of crimes against humanity. They say nine trenches in a dry, dusty riverbed at the Hatra site in northern Iraq contain at least 300 bodies, and possibly thousands, including unborn babies and toddlers still clutching toys. "It is my personal opinion that this is a killing field," said Greg Kehoe, a U.S. lawyer appointed by the White House to work with the Iraqi Special Tribunal. "Someone used this field on significant occasions over time to take bodies up there, and to take people up there and execute them. I've been doing grave sites for a long time, but I've never seen anything like this, women and children executed for no apparent reason. It's a perfect place for execution."
The victims are believed to be minority Kurds killed during 1987-88. One trench contains only women and children, apparently killed by small arms. Another contains only men, apparently killed by automatic gunfire. Kehoe said the women and children had been taken from their villages with their belongings, including pots and pans, shot -- often in the back of the head -- then bulldozed into the trench. Some of the mothers died still holding their children. One young boy still held a ball in his tiny arms. A thick stench hangs over the site, as well as at a makeshift morgue nearby.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:20:40 PM ||
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300 found. Now to find the 180,000 more Kurds killed during the Anfal.
Posted by: ed ||
10/13/2004 1:51
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It's happening again in Sudan. We'll all say "never again" and feel all righteous, but not actually do anything until we have another Wyoming's worth of the dead people. Then we'll move in and say "never again" again.
It has been learned that Bangladeshis residing in Korea had formed an anti-Korean Islamic group before being exposed. Grand National Party lawmaker Kim Jae-gyeong said Wednesday that in April, the National Intelligence Service -- together with the Seoul Immigration Bureau Office -- exposed an anti-Korean group of Bangladeshis known as the "Dawatol Islam Korea," deporting three of its core members, including 27-year-old Mr. N. Rep. Kim said he had confirmed the facts of the case through the Seoul Immigration Bureau Office. Another two core members, however, were still in hiding. According to Rep. Kim, the group was composed of illegal Bangladeshi residents in Gyeonggi Province, basing their activities out of a mosque in Anyang. Moreover, it was learned that the group arranged jobs for illegal Bangladeshi immigrants, and had amassed about W100 million in funds here in Korea, which they remitted to a particular political party in Bangladesh. NIS investigated whether the group had supported terrorist activities, but out of consideration for Korea's diplomatic relations with Bangladesh, it did not release the investigation results. Meanwhile, the Justice Ministry had uncovered just two illegal residents engaged in anti-Korean activities last year, but this year, 12 illegal residents had been disclosed for anti-Korean activities by August alone.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
10/13/2004
11:20:08 AM ||
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These Bangladeshis need to understand that though they have no love nor respect for the republic of South Korea, they should be respectful of their host country. An anti-Korean Islamic group is not a good way to show their respect. The SKors should have confiscated all their money for this seditious crap. That would send a message to others Bangladeshis that engage in this crap.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2004 14:05
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But Paul they don't have top be respectful, they're Mooslims. Says right there on page 37 paragraph 9, subsection H of the guide book.
#2
I'll bet they shut up entirely when 'W' wins re-election, smm.
Unless they want a great glassy smoking holes where their Enrichment Facilities are now standing.
Jack.
Posted by: Jack Deth ||
10/13/2004 2:35
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Ditto on Nov 3rd. The W countdown for the mullahs really gets underway.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004 3:31
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Ladies and Gents,
As a sequel to "AllaHateMe" I would now like to introduce "AllahNukeMe(TM)" to all of you.
Where the heck did I put my Geiger Counter ??
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
10/13/2004 11:48
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U.N. nuclear inspectors are welcome to return an Iraqi minister said on Tuesday in response to concerns of an "apparent systematic dismantlement" of Saddam Hussein's once-vigorous nuclear program. Science and Technology Minister Rashad Omar was responding to an International Atomic Energy Agency report on Monday that neither Baghdad nor Washington appeared to have noticed the disappearance of nuclear equipment and materials once closely monitored by the agency. "The locations that belong to the Science and Technology ministry are secure and under our control," Omar told Reuters. He said nothing had gone missing since a looting spree after last year's U.S.-led invasion, which the United States and Britain said was to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destruction. Both countries now admit Saddam had no banned weapons. Omar said Tuwaitha, a vast compound south of Baghdad that included Iraq's main nuclear facility, was being turned into a science park. "The IAEA came back one month ago, they inspected the plant and others and didn't say anything. "We are transparent. We are happy for the IAEA or any other organization to come and inspect," he said, adding he had not seen the agency's report to the Security Council.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:17:51 PM ||
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IAEA/US = penis envy
Posted by: Capt America ||
10/13/2004 8:57
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Saddam Hussein underwent an operation to repair a hernia about ten days ago and has made a full recovery, it emerged last night. The ousted dictator was taken to the Ibn Sina hospital near the US-controlled Green Zone in Baghdad for the procedure, which was performed by Iraqi doctors, according to sources close to the Human Rights Ministry. The operation lasted about an hour and Saddam was returned to his cell the same day. There was no comment from US officials last night.
"Which part of 'no comment' don't you understand? Now scram!"
The United States unsuccessfully tried at least twice to rescue two Americans and one British man taken hostage in Iraq last month and later beheaded, U.S. officials said on Tuesday. The officials, who asked not to be identified, said hostage rescue teams went to two places in Baghdad based on intelligence reports and found nothing. "They just got there and nobody was there," one official said of the attempts to free Americans Eugene Armstrong and Jack Hensley and Briton Ken Bigley, who were taken on Sept. 16 from their home in Baghdad.
I think I heard on the radio that the beds were still warm when US forces arrived. Mahmoud the Weasel (TM) strikes again...
CNN, which first reported the attempts from Baghdad on Tuesday, said they involved both U.S. military and other government personnel. But the officials in Washington declined to discuss any details. They confirmed that one attempt was made when all three men were still alive and that the second followed the killing of Armstrong just days after he was taken. "We don't really know whether the men were ever at the spots," one official told Reuters. "But there were attempts to get them." Armstrong was killed on Sept. 20 and Hensley a day later by a group headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, which demanded that Washington and Britain release women prisoners from jails in Iraq. Bigley, a 62-year-old engineer, was killed last week and a video tape posted on the Internet on Sunday showed him making a last appeal to Prime Minister Tony Blair to meet the demands of the militants holding him.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/13/2004
11:13:15 PM ||
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Law-enforcement officials in the Phoenix area are using new tactics to cut off illegal immigration by going after used-car salesmen who sell vehicles to smugglers and by arresting operators of safe houses where immigrants stay after crossing the border. Unlike past crackdowns, which have focused on stopping immigrants at the border, immigration officials say the new campaign frustrates smugglers by zeroing in on the tools of their trade. And so far, they say, it seems to be working in Phoenix, the nation's hub for transporting illegal workers throughout the country. "Now, we really are bringing the focus on putting the organizations out of business through arresting, prosecuting and convicting the controls people," said Mike Turner, who heads the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office in Phoenix. "The endgame is putting the organizational leaders in jail."
Smugglers, also known as "coyotes," typically charge thousands of dollars per person to sneak immigrants across the border, either by foot or hidden in vehicles. Once across, many are taken to hiding places known as "drop houses," where they often stay for months before fanning out across the country to look for work. For years, many smugglers stole cars to carry migrants from the border to the Phoenix area. But recently, used-car salesmen began selling cars to smugglers with fake liens and names on the titles, so if the car is seized near the border, it reverts to the dealer. The dealers then resell the car to the smugglers, a practice that has allowed many dealers to increase their revenue fivefold, said Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard. Police said they were tipped off to the scheme by a tow-truck operator. Nearly two dozen used-car lot workers in the Phoenix area recently were indicted on charges of forgery and money laundering. Police also seized 11 car lots and 400 vehicles. "A really critical link has been broken," Mr. Goddard said.
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Posted by: trailing wife ||
10/13/2004
11:07:58 AM ||
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PC, coupled with capitalism's demand for cheap labor, will forever preclude any meaningful reforms... I live in Tucson, I know. BTW the phrase "illegal aliens" is verboten among the genteel crowd... "undocumented entrants" is the flavor/phrase of the month...
I'm not convinced this means anything. If people can't get all hot and bothered over millions of illegal alien Mexicans on U.S. soil, how are they going to get worked up over small numbers of Mexican soldiers running coyote operations?
by Allan H. Ryskind
John Kerry says vote for him because he'll restore what Democrats talk about as Bill Clinton's "just-right, Goldilocks" economy. "Let's not forget what we [Democrats] did in the 1990s," he's been telling folks on the campaign trail and may well repeat in one of the next two debates. "And we can do it again."
But the splendid '90s were not splendid because of the Democrats or Clinton or even Clinton's much ballyhooed Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, now a Kerry adviser. It's a nice party myth, but it's far from accurate.
Some recent history is in order: After Clinton's election, the President went full-bore left on the economy, pressing for the largest tax increase in history (the words of the late Sen. Moynihan), a special $72-billion energy tax and vastly increased domestic spending, including a federal takeover of the entire health-care system, equal to one-seventh of America's yearly domestic output. Before he could drop these economy crushers on the nation, the President was largely foiled by a feisty Republican minority in both houses of Congress.
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#1
Every sitting president either gets the blame or the credit for what the administration before theirs and sometimes the one before that did as far as the economy. The biggest thing Clinton did was just leave every thing pretty much alone as he had been slapped down by Congress earlier. But as rosy as some peole like to think the 90s were this is when the ball really started rolling as far jobs in both manufacturing and service started heading off shore.
Local news reports series of raids by combined US/Iraqi forces on Mosques.Looks like Mosques are no longer safe havens.Film looks like at least one got shot-up pretty good.
Posted by: Raptor ||
10/13/2004
10:11:33 AM ||
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By the word 'mosques', do you mean firing platforms and weapon storage depots?
#4
Anybody want to bet the work was doene by ING or IA?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/13/2004 10:42
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no civil demonstrations over this
Another possibility. Folks in Baghdad dont give a damn about mosques in Anbar province, nest of smugglers and thieves. Hurt OUR mosques (so they may think) and its another story.
#6
Please title your postings more informatively.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/13/2004 12:27
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I think the rules just changed, and the bad guys are just catching on. I'll bet the Iraqi government is now engaged in a race to present Kerry with a fate accompli next Jan in case Kerry wins the US election. (For the record, I think Bush is going to win, but I don't know if I'd actually bet my life on it.) One thing is sure, the current Iraqi leader's minds sure seem "focused." They know they are gonners if Kerry gets in.
Posted by: Dave ||
10/13/2004 12:43
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And don't let your posting get to prolix.
Posted by: Major Major Major Chicago Style ||
10/13/2004 16:53
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The other day, a friend mentioned that a fellow Muslim had declared that we should be careful about condemning the recent massacre of innocent schoolchildren in Russia by so-called "Islamic militants" because "some scholars" have issued "fatwas" (non-binding legal opinions) that such operations are sometimes acceptable under Islamic Law.
As I've mentioned before, any idiot can issue a fatwah, and many do...
They then referenced part of a Qur'anic verse which basically means, "⊠then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him." (Qur'an 2:194). Essentially, this is the age old "an eye for an eye" legal maxim that dates back to not just the Old Testament, but to the Code of Hammurabi as well. While this maxim might be rightfully employed in individual cases of justice, using it to justify mass murder and collective punishment is quite a stretch.
Using it to massacre schoolchildren is definitely a stretch.
Being informed that a Muslim in my community adhered to such shoddy logic rather shocked and disgusted me even though I'm well aware of the half-baked and ethically shallow justifications of suicide bombing espoused by some Muslims. In spite of that, being ambivalent about the massacre of innocent schoolchildren seemed to expose a moral depravity that's sunk to all new levels.
Either that, or a simple lack of morality, an utter lack of a soul. There's not even anything there to go to Hell when he dies...
#1
If Islam is ever to reform, it's going to need more guys like this, writing essays like this, to be willing to take the risk. There are people out there quite willing to behead the author in order to shut him up. God protect him.
Posted by: Mike ||
10/13/2004 12:23
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Want to see what some clearly intelligent Muslims have to say about current events, then go to http://abbaskadhim.blogspot.com/. It ain't pretty, but you've seen it before. All deflection, blame America, blame the Joooooos, etc. I go over there for a laugh, but in the end it is sadly educational. I sure hope that there is change amongst the peoples of the Ummah.
Posted by: remote man ||
10/13/2004 16:38
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Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
03:49 ||
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"Tiny bones, femurs - thighbones the size of a matchstick."
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Kofi and friends cash their Oil-for-Food kickback checks and shop for new luxury automobiles.
"Nie wieder" = "Immer wieder"
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 10:27
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hey, but it's ok, right, Murat? They're only Kurds...
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/13/2004 10:41
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Mr Kehoe said that work to uncover graves around Iraq, where about 300,000 people are thought to have been killed during Saddam Hussein's regime, was slow as experienced European investigators were not taking part.
The Europeans, he said, were staying away as the evidence might be used eventually to put Saddam Hussein to death.
If this statement is true, it fills me with revulsion almost as much as the original deeds by Saddam's henchmen.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/13/2004 11:15
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...reduce terrorism to a level of a nusiance...
---John F'ing Kerry
#7
CF - I can picture Dan Rather or Jennings--either one, really-- with no sense of irony and with an utterly straight face, intoning "Did Mr. Bush wait too long to invade Iraq?"
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
10/13/2004
03:40 ||
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If my country would like to use my body to deceive the enemy in wartime, I have no problem with that--but PLEASE don't call it Operation "Mincemeat"!
Posted by: Dar ||
10/13/2004 10:56
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Get the book, "The Man Who Never Was," out of the library. The author's name is Ewen Montagu.
Montagu states that "I found that the word 'Mincemeat' had just been restored afer employment in a successful operation some time before. My sense of humour having by this time (in the development of the project) become somewhat macabre, the word seemed to be one of good omen--and "Operation Mincemeat" it became."
Monatgu also states that permission to use the body was granted by next of kin on condition that the man's name wouldn't be revealed. The man died of pneumonia following exposure.
Despite Pakistan's efforts as a key ally in the United States' "war on terror", terror rings endure, from South Waziristan tribal agency to the port city of Karachi. The killing by Pakistani security forces of 26-year-old former Taliban commander Nek Mohammed in June was termed a major milestone in attempts to flush out foreign militants from Pakistan - Nek had acted as an important facilitator between the Taliban in Afghanistan and foreign elements.
However, eliminating Nek was not the end of the problem. On the weekend, another charismatic fighter, Abdullah Mehsud, was behind the abduction of two Chinese engineers and a paramilitary man in the tribal areas, showing the serious threat that still exists to Islamabad's writ, despite a strong military presence and several offensives. Wang Ende and Wang Peng were working on Pakistan's Gomal Zam Dam project for China's state-run Sino Hydro Corp when they were abducted in the Chagmalai area of South Waziristan. Abdullah Mehsud appeared before the international media after Pakistani authorities claimed that the kidnappings had been done by al-Qaeda. Abdullah spelled out that insurgent tribals under his command were responsible as a reaction to the military operations in Waziristan, not al-Qaeda.
Continued on Page 49
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
A senior Russian lawmaker said Tuesday that there is firm evidence showing that radical Islamic organizations, including Al-Qaida, are financing Chechen militants,Itar-Tass news agency reported. Anatoly Kulikov, deputy chairman of the security committee of the State Duma, the lower house of Russian parliament, also said many terrorists operating in Russia's breakaway republic of Chechnya come from the Middle East, Europe and North America. However, Western countries still refrain from branding Chechen terrorism as a branch of international terrorist networks, Kulikov said, complaining that "none of our partners in the international anti-terrorist coalition have extradited to Russia the criminals who have stained their hands with the blood of hundreds of innocent people."
The Central Intelligence Agency runs a top secret interrogation facility in Jordan, where at least 11 detainees who are considered Al-Qaida's most senior cadre are being held, Haaretz has learned from international intelligence sources. Since the war in Afghanistan ended three years ago, reports spoke of these special detainees being held outside the United States, but no location was mentioned. A report on these prisoners issued yesterday by the Human Rights Watch organization claims they are being held somewhere so secret that U.S. President George Bush asked the CIA heads not to report it to him.
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Two Pakistani villagers were killed in an explosion on Wednesday when they tried to break open an anti-tank mine with a hammer to use the casing for a stove to fry snacks, police said.
Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said Wednesday that he hoped the arrest of the Hamas military leader in Hebron, suspected of engineering twin suicide bombings in Be'er Sheva on August 31, would reduce the number of terrorist attacks against Israelis. 
Local insurgents in the city of Fallujah are turning against the foreign fighters who have been their allies in the rebellion that has held the U.S. military at bay in parts of Iraq's Sunni Muslim heartland, according to Fallujah residents, insurgent leaders and Iraqi and U.S. officials. Relations are deteriorating as local fighters negotiate to avoid a U.S.-led military offensive against Fallujah, while foreign fighters press to attack Americans and their Iraqi supporters. The disputes have spilled over into harsh words and sporadic violence, with Fallujans killing at least five foreign Arabs in recent weeks, according to witnesses. "If the Arabs will not leave willingly, we will make them leave by force," said Jamal Adnan, a taxi driver who left his house in Fallujah's Shurta neighborhood a month ago after the house next door was bombed by U.S. aircraft targeting foreign insurgents.
An anti-terrorism court sentenced a militant on Tuesday to 40 years in prison for possessing explosives and killing a woman during a shootout with police, lawyers said. 
A Spanish miner is believed to have trained the Madrid train bombers how to use explosives, security forces have said. In a court document sent to the parliamentary commission investigating the March 11 attacks, 
Three suspected Saudi militants armed with guns and hand grenades including one militant on the country's most-wanted list were killed in a clash with Saudi security forces, officials said Tuesday. Seven police officers were wounded in the confrontation with the militants, who were hiding on the second floor of a house in eastern Riyadh, according to an Interior Ministry statement. Officials identified one of the militants as 
Saddam Hussein underwent an operation to repair a hernia about ten days ago and has made a full recovery, it emerged last night. The ousted dictator was taken to the Ibn Sina hospital near the US-controlled Green Zone in Baghdad for the procedure, which was performed by Iraqi doctors, according to sources close to the Human Rights Ministry. The operation lasted about an hour and Saddam was returned to his cell the same day. There was no comment from US officials last night.
