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2018-03-07 Home Front: Politix
Gary Cohn, Trump's Top Economic Adviser, Resigns From White House
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Posted by Besoeker 2018-03-07 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [613 views ]  Top

#1 European Conservative, a spot to continue this discussion from yesterday.

#25 European Conservative you ignorant slut.

The “you ignorant slut” is a reference to a running Saturday Night Live gag from the early years of the show. The proper response is, “rammer, you pompous ass.” ;-)
Posted by trailing wife 2018-03-07 00:11||   2018-03-07 00:11|| Front Page Top

#2 We will see what this all ends up being. Maybe it is good moves. Maybe not.
I do have a trend to rely on and it is usually very good.
Posted by newc 2018-03-07 00:16||   2018-03-07 00:16|| Front Page Top

#3 I see. Didn't know that one.

First of all, if you disagree with a policy of your president, you quit. That's the honorable thing to do.

To clarify: Trade sanctions are not necessarily evil or stupid, but they have to be applied in a smart way.

The Trump proposal didn't. "They are all ripping us off" isn't a very satisfying reason.

How does the Canadian steel industry rip the U.S. off? China certainly uses dumping methods, but Chinese steel already bears high import tariffs, so it's rather irrelevant. Aluminium is a different matter.

But then, why don't you just apply smart and targeted tariffs to Chinese products sold with dumping methods.

Dumping distorts the market. But aim at the right target, with sophisticated methods and minimal damage to yourself.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 00:25||   2018-03-07 00:25|| Front Page Top

#4 

Trump might just enjoy the rolls?
Posted by 3dc 2018-03-07 00:31||   2018-03-07 00:31|| Front Page Top

#5 I also find the lack of information in the White House disturbing: From the WaPo

"One of Trump’s top advisers, Peter Navarro, also holds the view that German automakers have stolen market share in the United States by importing cars but limiting the amount of U.S. cars sold into their country"

Sorry, that's simply not true. The amount of U.S. cars sold into Germany is not limited at all.

And how can German cars "steal market share" in the U.S? Mercedes and BMWs cost more than Cadillacs or other U.S. brands.

Yes there is the EU tax of 10%, but it applies to every car imported into the EU: U.S., Japan, South Korea.

And the U.S. has a whopping 25% tariff on imported trucks and vans (EU 10%).

So things are a bit more complicated, don't you think.

Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 00:51||   2018-03-07 00:51|| Front Page Top

#6 country can’t make aluminum and steel, and somebody said it before and I will tell you, you almost don’t have much of a country
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2018-03-07 00:57||   2018-03-07 00:57|| Front Page Top

#7 And WHY can't you make it? Why can Canada?
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 00:58||   2018-03-07 00:58|| Front Page Top

#8 It turns out most of the steel imported from Canada and Mexico is relabeled product from other countries. The majority of "other" being CH**A.
Posted by 3dc 2018-03-07 01:13||   2018-03-07 01:13|| Front Page Top

#9 European Conservative - you know just like how my farmer friends in the 1970s used to sell live cattle to Greece. Then they were slaughtered in Greece as EU Greek cattle - the tariff and limits avoided.
Posted by 3dc 2018-03-07 01:16||   2018-03-07 01:16|| Front Page Top

#10 Right now, I'm holding fast. I was given information of tactical manner this is aimed at. but reserve judgement. I just hate the language.
Posted by newc 2018-03-07 01:27||   2018-03-07 01:27|| Front Page Top

#11 3dc
The numbers don't add up to support your argument

Canadian steel imports

9% from China
59% from the U.S.

Canada exports nearly 90 percent of its steel to the U.S.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 01:43||   2018-03-07 01:43|| Front Page Top

#12 The US Controls 70% of that Steel Market. High end steel is here. these may be some not so ISO- ish type standards they kill their people with when their buildings collapse. And China does not care about those kind of standards any more than they do Bey Bey Female Infants.
Posted by newc 2018-03-07 02:23||   2018-03-07 02:23|| Front Page Top

#13 My take is that we do have to worry a lot about China and its (trade) policies, but steel doesn't seem to be a major concern.

I find Trump's threats against the German automobile industry unwarranted and disappointing.

We were on track to eliminate all trade barriers with TTIP. Of course, TTIP was not perfect and a lot remained to be done, but the idea of a European-American free trade zone is the way to go. This is the best way to face Chinese expansion.

I agree that we must spend more on defense and NATO. A trade war with the U.S. isn't really helpful in that regard.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 04:05||   2018-03-07 04:05|| Front Page Top

#14 F Europe. They're not our friends. Friends don't treat each other like this. Ruthlessly exploiting brutally unbalanced trade agreements. And now that we finally have someone on our side who's going to fight for us, it's all "oh it's that evil baby killing fascist USA again, how dare they not think of our interests first. Now, to watch a TV programme that mocks the living shit out of Americans for being stupid racist rednecks. Oh, we do love looking down the people who won the Cold War on our behalf and gave us peace for 75 years!"
Posted by Harcourt Angoluting9366 2018-03-07 05:01||   2018-03-07 05:01|| Front Page Top

#15 Europe is "ruthlessly exploiting brutally unbalanced trade agreements".

Really? What world do you live in?
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 06:26||   2018-03-07 06:26|| Front Page Top

#16 Trump ramps up attacks on trade deals telling Europe he'll sanction their cars and preparing for action against China for stealing American ideas
Posted by Skidmark 2018-03-07 07:27||   2018-03-07 07:27|| Front Page Top

#17 This is about reducing the federal debt that was doubled under Obama. Imports are paid for with US dollars that goes to other countries, that meet payroll of foreign employees who pay federal taxes of those countries.

Jobs created here via tarriffs that reduce imports meet domestic payroll that a percentage goes to our federal tax coffers that reduce our federal deficit that means more money for our military, schools, etc..

Its about cash flow management. Nationalism vs globalism.
Posted by Omeger Gray6606 2018-03-07 08:02||   2018-03-07 08:02|| Front Page Top

#18 My observation; PD Trump is setting the stage with outrageous-ish bombast and will offer a renegotiation of NAFTA and new trade deals with China. My crystal ball grows cloudy now, can't see further.

Cake or death.
Posted by Whiskey Mike 2018-03-07 08:08||   2018-03-07 08:08|| Front Page Top

#19 Also, Europe's biggest import is Islam. There will be disruptions of their industrial base due to ideological conflicts that could hurt the US if we do not restore our industrial infrastucture by any means neccessary.
Posted by Omeger Gray6606 2018-03-07 08:12||   2018-03-07 08:12|| Front Page Top

#20 Just saying.

I look at it differently. Do I pay a higher price in consumer goods made domestically and less in government welfare bureaucracy or do I pay less for consumer goods and much more to sustain a bureaucratic welfare state to support the unemployed? It's a trade off. Looking at our inner cities, the old phrase 'idle hands are the devil's plaything' comes to mind with the high levels of unemployment. I don't look at it as import/export in goods, but the import/export of jobs. I think the man has mentioned 'jobs' a good number of times.
Posted by Procopius2k 2018-03-07 08:44||   2018-03-07 08:44|| Front Page Top

#21 Bikes, bourbon and T-shirts on EU tax list

Leaves more for us, eh?
Posted by Skidmark 2018-03-07 09:13||   2018-03-07 09:13|| Front Page Top

#22 We recently had to buy titanium pipe from China and Italy. Not a foot to be found in the U.S.A.
Posted by Deacon Blues 2018-03-07 09:47||   2018-03-07 09:47|| Front Page Top

#23 What world do I live in? The world in which we had to pay Europe $151,000,000 for the privilege of trading with them in 2017. Money which Europe pocketed.

And then maybe Europe wants to spend some of this on their own defense? Nope! That's our job! As designated suckers. Germany outright refused. What good would it be to build an army, they asked? Useless. They would rather profit from trade and invest in education for their own people. Why spend money on something as useless as a military, when they have a dumbass that will spend money on their behalf?

I have to say, I can't disagree with them. If I had an idiot that was willing to pay for my country's security, I wouldn't spend my own money. However unlike Europe, I'd likely show some respect or gratitude towards this benefactor. Not call them warmongering baby killing fascists like Europe does today. But that's just me.
Posted by Harcourt Angoluting9366 2018-03-07 13:10||   2018-03-07 13:10|| Front Page Top

#24 European Conservative, Y'all are looking at Trump with the wrong eye glasses. He's something you don't have or see. Something uniquely American. Think PT-Barnum, a Carney operator, a Madison Garden presenter, a Hollywood show man and shrewd businessman in one package. Those awkward photos I posted a link to, his fight promotions, his Miss Universe contests, his (a word that Fred will not let be posted here but think a Las Vegas business for a few shows and separating one from their money) owner define a unique individual with a much different outlook on the world than a bureaucrat or politician has ever had! Even Don King (of the fight promotions) is a fan!

Posted by 3dc 2018-03-07 13:29||   2018-03-07 13:29|| Front Page Top

#25 and European Conservative look who was one of his companions when he started. Esp. in his Studio 54 days.

Google: Roy Cohn.
Posted by 3dc 2018-03-07 13:35||   2018-03-07 13:35|| Front Page Top

#26 I wonder how tariffs will be worked out on the BMWs and Mercedes-Benzs made in the U.S.? Some BMWs are made in Spartansburg, SC. Some Mercedes-Benzs are made in Tuscaloosa, Al. VW has a plant in Chattanooga, TN. Toyota has a plant near Lexington, KY. Nissans are produced near Murfreesboro, TN. Nippondenso has operations in Maryville, TN where parts for many cars are produced. Some parts of autos are made outside the U.S. and imported into the U.S. to be assembled into a vehicle here. Foreign car manufacturers in the U.S. employ a great many Americans. It is more complex than just saying its going to happen--tariffs need to be well thought-out before implementing a tariff policy.
Posted by JohnQC 2018-03-07 16:48||   2018-03-07 16:48|| Front Page Top

#27 It is indeed far more complicated and full of unintended consequences.

Even if the EU didn't react at all, the U.S. will probably lose more jobs than it gains with those tariffs. Steel is the wrong target, because there are far more companies that use aluminum and steel than there are companies who make it, which means this will hurt more people than it helps.

And then Europe must react in order to be taken seriously. And retaliation will be far more targeted, inflicting as much political and economic damage as possible. Expect US farming to be hit hardest.

And then this could quickly escalate into a full-blown trade war. You know, the one we have worked hard to avoid with creating the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), which ultimately evolved into the World Trade Organization. The idea was to create a system of rules so that trade wars would not happen.

This system could blow up and the consequences would be dire.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 19:47||   2018-03-07 19:47|| Front Page Top

#28 Lol. America has much to gain and little to lose. We get murdered in these trade agreements. It's about time someone shook them up. If Europe was our friend, they wouldn't take advantage of us like this.
Posted by Harcourt Angoluting9366 2018-03-07 21:18||   2018-03-07 21:18|| Front Page Top

#29 "We get murdered in these trade agreements"

Sorry, this is nonsense. I know how Americans negotiate.

My company has always come to agreements that were mutually beneficial.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 21:26||   2018-03-07 21:26|| Front Page Top

#30 And America has little to gain and much to lose from this. You can't ignore the laws and rules of the global economy. You will just isolate yourself while the rest of the world moves on.

Or please show me a trade war that has been "easily" won.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 21:30||   2018-03-07 21:30|| Front Page Top

#31 You will just isolate yourself while the rest of the world moves on.

Heh. Without the Americans the glue holding Western Civ comes undone.
Posted by Procopius2k 2018-03-07 21:48||   2018-03-07 21:48|| Front Page Top

#32 Which is what nobody wants.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 22:09||   2018-03-07 22:09|| Front Page Top

#33 Germany just signed 31 military trade contracts with Turkey's Islamic Mad Man Erdogan while he is butchering Kurds and threatening the Greeks.

Europe is sliding right back down the same murderous sh*t h*le mentality it has had for centuries. The same mentality the pilgrims established the US to get away from. Didn't take long for the US, based on far more noble standards to have to come back in twice to rescue the European *sses.

Learn to stand on your own feet and stop b*tching because we don't give dam about doing business with your suicidal mindsets.
Posted by Ulaigum Ebbineng7056 2018-03-07 22:46||   2018-03-07 22:46|| Front Page Top

#34 European Conservative you have a well considered and argumented position. I accept that every fact you have offered is true. And number #11 is new to me and valuable information that I will carry forward in my arguments.

However, my point that a trade war on steel and aluminum is still valid. I have two arguments.

First the Chinese have massively over invested in steel and aluminum manufacture, and then gamed the NAFTA rules to the detriment of US domestic producers. Look here for an example. We should expect Americans to be unhappy about this and take some actions to make it stop.

Second, and I am not saying this to be provocative, but to explain why Trump will succeed at persuading the American people that he is correct. Most European countries are not to be taken seriously. We Americans appreciate their friendship and alliance, but know they are more of a burden than a benefit.

Germany has no military. Their navy is incompetent; army is unable to deploy, and air force is less available than Sweden's. France is not much better. If the Russians made it through the Poles, we would be shipping our troops to Lisbon to set up defensive positions in the Pyrenees.

Everything in Europe other than England, Norway, Spain, and Italy is basically undefended. Having an annual $65B trade deficit with Germany is like giving the Russians an incentive to invade and pillage.

And to add insult to incompetence, the EU leadership is arrogant, obnoxious, and outspokenly foolish. Even the British and Italians are rejecting the EU.

Americans know that the world is a dangerous place, and we have to suffer a little every day to not suffer a lot in a future day. But don't ever think we like suffering and don't be surprised when we share some of our suffering with Europeans.

I point everyone to Trump's inaugural speech, and cut out a small portion for emphasis.

The oath of office, I take today, is an oath of allegiance to all Americans. For many decades, we've enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry, subsidized the armies of other countries, while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military. We've defended other nation's borders while refusing to defend our own. And spent trillions and trillions of dollars overseas, while America's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay. We've made other countries rich while the wealth, strength and confidence of our country has dissipated over the horizon. One by one, the factories shuddered and left our shores, with not even a thought about the millions and millions of American workers that were left behind. The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world.
Posted by rammer 2018-03-07 23:16||   2018-03-07 23:16|| Front Page Top

#35 rammer

We don't disagree on China

The Chinese aluminium industry is a colossus on clay feet. China has overstretched the capacity of its aluminium industry. China is facing the same problem as Japan 30 years ago. Both are countries which, in terms of costs, are not at all suitable for operating such capacities. Chinese electricity, including hydroelectric power, is too expensive to produce raw aluminium. China also has to import the clay from Australia. It is nonsense to produce raw aluminium in Japan, the USA and, of course, China. The true costs are considerably lower in Canada, Iceland, Norway, New Zealand and Brazil. Chinese aluminium cannot import its costs and is wasted on the world market.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 23:31||   2018-03-07 23:31|| Front Page Top

#36 And yes it's a well-known fact that the Chinese are building strategic positions in fine industrial metals. These are mainly aluminium, copper, tin, zinc, zinc, brass, titanium, tantalum, alloy metals and rare earths.

So let's address this issue, let's target China.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 23:34||   2018-03-07 23:34|| Front Page Top

#37 I am glad we agree. And I would extend your argument to the industry of Chinese steel manufacture and rare earth extraction. Both of which have costs that are far beyond their ability to import their costs.
Posted by rammer 2018-03-07 23:41||   2018-03-07 23:41|| Front Page Top

#38 Maybe we get a chance to continue because there's more to say and I appreciate all opinions
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 23:45||   2018-03-07 23:45|| Front Page Top

#39 I am not so sure we can "target China" from one country no matter how hard we try. They move their inventory from place to place and externalize their costs. This is an effort that has to be multi-national. The WTO was designed to do this, but no one has gone there with the facts and intention to make a change.
Posted by rammer 2018-03-07 23:45||   2018-03-07 23:45|| Front Page Top

#40 Well I know for a fact that steel contracts in Europe almost always have a special paragraph that prohibits the use of Chinese steel.
Posted by European Conservative 2018-03-07 23:53||   2018-03-07 23:53|| Front Page Top

23:53 European Conservative
23:45 rammer
23:45 European Conservative
23:41 rammer
23:34 European Conservative
23:31 European Conservative
23:16 rammer
23:03 3dc
23:00 3dc
22:46 Ulaigum Ebbineng7056
22:29 trailing wife
22:09 European Conservative
21:52 Procopius2k
21:48 Procopius2k
21:31 European Conservative
21:30 European Conservative
21:29 Roth LaDoad
21:26 European Conservative
21:18 Harcourt Angoluting9366
21:13 Jack Salami
20:29 Injun Bucket8891
19:47 European Conservative
19:41 Blackbeard Bumble5724
19:06 Angailet Slalet4696

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