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NPA assassins target George Bush?
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Page 1: WoT Operations
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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Opinion: WSJ Editorial on NGO’s
This article came up in a discussion of Somolia yesterday

Passive Saboteurs
Ideological prejudice leads relief agencies to cut and run from Iraq.

BY MARTIN PERETZ
Sunday, September 14, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT

Mr. Peretz is editor in chief of The New Republic.
Not a source that I would expect for this type of tone.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 12:50:32 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Here is a link to NGO Watch, which is a work in progress, trying to keep track of NGOs, their missions, habitats, agendas, etc.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 13:10 Comments || Top||

#2  Alaska Paul

That looks like a good site. I will check out some of my favorites when I get a chance. I remeber Oxfam from high school.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 22:37 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan
Abdul Rahim Still Dead
A top commander for the former Taliban regime who has been allegedly leading rebel fighters in southern Afghanistan has been killed in a shootout with Afghan forces, government and security officials said Tuesday. The commander, identified as Hafiz Abdul Rahim, was killed late Sunday in the Maruf district of Kandahar province along with 14 other fighters, Malim Syed Ali Khan, the head of the local administration in Maruf, told The Associated Press. Khan Mohammed Khan, the military chief of Kandahar province, and Haji Grani, the commander of Kandahar’s 7th Corp. military unit, both confirmed Rahim’s death in satellite phone calls with AP.
"Yup, he’s a deader."
Rahim’s body was turned over to U.S. military authorities, Grani said.
Oh, good, there’s less of a chance of him getting better.
The clash in which Rahim died occurred after 60 to 70 Taliban fighters attacked the heaquarters of the Maruf administration, Khan said. Five government troops were wounded, two of them seriously, said Khan. The battle lasted for four hours, he said. One Taliban fighter was captured and confirmed Rahim was among the dead. Government troops seized a large amount of weapons and ammunition from the rebel fighters killed in the fighting. "We identified Hafiz Abdul Rahim among the dead," Khan said.
Ululating may now commence.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 9:13:04 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Afghan forces also captured a front-line Taliban commander, who was identified as Mullah Abdur Rahman, and took him to Kandahar, the provincial capital, for interrogation.
Another one in the bag.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 11:31 Comments || Top||

#2  Read this article from allafrica.com via WND. It calls for all Moslem men to marry up to four wives so that women aren't hanging at the street corners at risk of becoming protistutes. It strikes me that this Rabin guy could be the exception to the rule. He should be given a limit of maybe 16 wives because he's uniquely talented and may possibly be capable of inter-dimensional travel. He might be able to service every widow in Afghanistan thus alleviating one hell of an orphan crisis in that country.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 13:01 Comments || Top||

#3  You can't kill Rahim, Rahim is un-killable! He be emmortal, blessed by Allah to fight the Great Satan for all of time!
Posted by: Charles || 09/16/2003 14:45 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Saudis Will Need Visa to Visit Indonesia
Interesting, EFL:
The Indonesian government plans to impose visa restrictions on Saudi nationals, according to both Saudi and Indonesian sources.
The sources say that the Kingdom is not among the countries eligible for the visa-on-arrival facility. This facility is part of a major plan to revamp Indonesia’s visa policy and will take effect on Dec 1, 2003. All Saudi and Gulf nationals, except citizens of the United Arab Emirates, will be required to apply for a visa if the new Indonesian government policy is implemented in its current form.
Obviously, this shows the anti-muslim bias of the Indonesian government, oh wait...
Asked about the Indonesian plan to impose visa restrictions, Mohammed Amin Rais, chairman of the Indonesian Supreme People’s Consultative Council, told Arab News, “Not only Saudi Arabia but there are also other countries whose citizens will be required to obtain visas. Once the new visa policy is implemented, problems will be solved by the two governments. If the impact creates many problems, then the Indonesian government, always very flexible, may scrap the new legislation.”
"Will that be cash, check, or credit card?"
According to an estimate, some 30,000 to 40,000 jihadis Saudis visit Indonesia every year. Asked about the impact of the new policy, Mahmood Qureshi of Attar Travel said that Indonesia’s plans to promote tourism in Saudi Arabia would be hampered as would its efforts to attract investors from the Kingdom and other Gulf states. There are currently hundreds of projects open for investment in Indonesia.
Such as JI’s Hotel & Bar Removal Service.
A report published in the “Jakarta Post” explained the new policy and said that Indonesia was considering granting only 23 countries the visa-on-arrival facility. Saudi Arabia, whose nationals currently enjoy this facility, was not among the 23.
And the winners are, may I have the envelope, please!
The countries included are the US, the UK, South Africa, Argentina, Brazil, Denmark, the UAE, Finland, Hungary, Australia, Italy, Japan, Germany, Canada, South Korea, Norway, France, Poland, Spain, Russia, Switzerland, New Zealand and Taiwan.
Notice anything? Only one Muslim country on the visa-on-arrival list, the United Arab Emirates. Like I said, interesting.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 2:57:52 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  We should be hearing howls of protest soon from the Pakistani Government. Imagine being lumped in with Saudi Arabia! This is an outrage.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 15:01 Comments || Top||

#2  Looks like there'll be a run on phony UAE passports for the ...ummmmm... tourists.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 15:12 Comments || Top||

#3  Wouldn't it be nice if State's Visa Express program for Saudi travelers was eliminated as well...?

Discouraging that Indonesia has the cojones to take a hard line w. the Saudis but our gov does not!
Posted by: mjh || 09/16/2003 16:03 Comments || Top||

#4  Looks like another late night in the stamping section of the French Embassy in Syria.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 16:28 Comments || Top||

#5  Doesn't Indonersia take American Express?
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 22:17 Comments || Top||


Riyadh prison fire may have been arson
Reliable Gulf-based sources have informed Albawaba that a significant number of those who died in Monday’s Al-Hair prison fire, if not the majority of them, are followers of Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden that have been arrested in the Kingdom in recent months.
Saudi government said no al-Qaeda suspects were in this prison. Wonder where they are then if not in their biggest prison.
Saudi Interior Ministry officials are not saying whether the fire was a result of an accident or if it had been deliberately set. However, sources told Albawaba that according to initial findings, there is reason to suspect the fire was intentionally ignited.
Another source said they had foam mattresses in the cells, that would explain the deaths by smoke inhalation.
In the meantime, however, a senior Saudi security source quoted by Al Hayat ruled out "any act of sabotage". "This sort of accident happens anywhere and a short circuit cannot be ruled out, particularly since the fire started in the afternoon at a time when the electricity supply is overloaded," the source said.
Maybe, maybe not. Prisoners have set mattresses on fire before in protest of conditions, may have gotten out of control.
In London, meanwhile, a Saudi opposition group said that as many as 144 inmates and 40 security men died in Monday’s blaze, more than double the official toll initially given by Saudi authorities.
The Saudis lied? Well, OK.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 10:05:24 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So the Soddies get a jugfull of jihadis, some of them cannon fodder, some of them with stuff that could be incriminating for others with much less likelihood of ever seeing the inside of the calaboose. So rather than sorting through the lot of them, somebody just decides to burn them all to the ground.

This is a story that should really be pushed.
Posted by: Fred || 09/16/2003 10:23 Comments || Top||

#2  alk-runner dispute in the cells, obviously, Louie. Round up the usual suspects
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 10:29 Comments || Top||

#3  Assuming, of course, that the people in prison are who they say they are. Or who they don't say they are. Or what "they" really means.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 11:10 Comments || Top||

#4  The death toll from a fire that swept through a prison in the Saudi capital has risen to 94, a prison official said Tuesday. Relatives of inmates waited outside al-Haer prison to learn the fate of their loved ones after Monday's fire, which burned some bodies beyond recognition, the official said.

Can I call them or what?
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 11:22 Comments || Top||

#5  More details: SPA did not name the prison official but was apparently referring to Ali Hussein al-Harethi, who told a correspondent on the scene that a sponge mattress caught fire in a cell housing 20 inmates in wing 19 of the facility, setting off the blaze.
Non-fire retardent sponge mattress, burns hot with a lot of smoke. They'll melt and stick like napalm, too.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 11:45 Comments || Top||

#6  And the gasses the foam gives off would be a great subsitiute for San Q's old gas chamber. What a convenient way to eliminate enemies. Though I would imagine that a prison would be mostly stone, concrete, and steel in Saudi. People burned beyond recognition is beyond me unless one had alot of fuel around. That's the part of the story that is very weak.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 13:16 Comments || Top||

#7  DEBKA thinks the same: Blaze in Riyadh prison kills more than 100 inmates. DEBKAfile reveals: Sabotage apparently behind fire which caused deaths of al Qaeda captives before they gave away secrets under interrogation
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 13:45 Comments || Top||

#8  And I thought beheading was a much neater solution. Saudis are slipping.
Posted by: john || 09/16/2003 15:03 Comments || Top||

#9  Hey, does this mean that Amnesty International will get off our backs about conditions in GITMO?... I'm waiting.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 16:30 Comments || Top||


Pakistani a foot shorter in Saudi Arabia
RIYADH: Saudi Arabia beheaded a Pakistani man on Monday for smuggling heroin into the kingdom, the Interior Ministry said. The execution in Riyadh raised to 41 the number of people put to death this year in the kingdom, which enforces strict Islamic sharia law.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:36 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I wonder what did the Pakis thought about this? Did they give a hoot one way or the other?
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 0:55 Comments || Top||

#2  Considering the amount of times this happens per year, I think they are pretty used to it.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 09/16/2003 1:29 Comments || Top||


Britain
French block airlift of British troops to Basra
It’s too easy:
The French government has told an airline that it is not to ferry British troops to Basra, a ban that will be seen as reflecting Paris’s opposition to the occupation of Iraq.
Ya think?
Corsair, which has been chartered numerous times to transport UK forces around the world, pulled out of a contract to fly reinforcements to Basra at the weekend. A Corsair Airbus A330 was chartered to fly troops of the Royal Green Jackets from Brize Norton, Oxon, but at the last moment the French transport ministry grounded the aircraft citing safety concerns.
Transport ministry officials were reported yesterday as saying the move had nothing to do with safety but was a result of the intervention of the foreign ministry.
Oops, somebody spilled the beans.
The foreign ministry denied the report, saying there was "no political motive". But British defence officials appeared to confirm that the ban was political and not technical.
"We have used them time and time again to fly troops into trouble spots," one said. "They have been everywhere for us. We always thought they were pretty robust."
"For the French, that is."
A Corsair spokesman said most of the flights undertaken for the MoD took troops to training exercises. For security and insurance reasons they rarely flew to war zones.
"We’re French, we don’t do wars."
"We did fly to Pristina during the Kosovo crisis, but only once it had been cleared for civil aviation."
Basra is already open to civilian aircraft.
Hey Tony, sure you still want to join the EU?
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 11:58:41 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hey Tony, sure you still want to join the EU?

But of course. For Blair, it's EU über alles.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 12:25 Comments || Top||

#2  I flew on Corsair once. The Brits are lucky they won't have to.
Posted by: seafarious || 09/16/2003 12:33 Comments || Top||

#3  france pathetic1 they will never again have the former glory they had - now get over it. your just another small country - deal with it.
why roosevelt did not listen to churchill about france and the security council i will never understand.....
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 14:59 Comments || Top||

#4  About "The Glory That Was France". Has anyoneone noted,of late that the "Glory" alluded to above was pretty much limited to the Napoleonic era?
Napoleone was an Italian.

Their "Glory" was not altogether French French
Posted by: johnvgreco || 09/16/2003 15:31 Comments || Top||

#5  Mr Johnvreco.

You slept during your Geography lessons. Napoleon was born on French soil (I am not sure about if Corsica was French when Napoleon was conceived, but this is not China). He learned his office in French schools (and he was defeated at Acre by a school comrade who had ranked higher) and was allowed to become General by the French system.

And for your info Corsicans fought to remain French during WWII.

While we are at it: your most illustrious astronaut: John Glenn is a Mexican. Your own logic at work.
Posted by: JFM || 09/16/2003 16:09 Comments || Top||

#6  Mr Vreco

I nearly forgot that guy who created the modern US Marine Corps: a such Lejeune.
Posted by: JFM || 09/16/2003 16:12 Comments || Top||

#7  Also you might have to note that the UK is part of the EU.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 16:14 Comments || Top||

#8  What I really can't believe is that the Brits don't have a charter outfit that can handle this. Fly the Green Jackets in on Virgin. The Jihadists will be lining up to get on the flight out!
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire || 09/16/2003 16:28 Comments || Top||

#9  Juan Glenn is Mexican???
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 17:05 Comments || Top||

#10  News to me Frank.
Posted by: raptor || 09/16/2003 17:16 Comments || Top||

#11  The real question is whether John Glenn is an illegal mexican or not.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 17:27 Comments || Top||

#12  SWDHVFWP: GET A NEW HANDLE.

Amazes me too. There's no excuse for it, and there'sno excuses for being surprised that Corsair pulled the flight after Straw's "neurosis" comments. Why the hell do 1400 BRitish troops rely on a foreign carrier?! As you point out, we've got airlines galore.

BTW, did I say get a new handle? SWDNVFWP is damned irritating to refer to. How about "Someone"?
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/16/2003 19:01 Comments || Top||

#13  Been thinking about it, but I haven't come up with anything yet......wiat I've got it, now I got to see if the sight will let me do it
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire || 09/16/2003 19:56 Comments || Top||

#14  Let's see if that worked
Posted by: Cheddarhead || 09/16/2003 19:59 Comments || Top||

#15  Why the .... are we relying on a French! firm to shift our boys around for?

Why the hell we put up with this kind of crap I don't know.

TGA, from your comments previously I know you speak with a straight tongue, so I know you won't get antsy, but I have to say that I for one am sick and tired of having my country lumped in with the EU and all its works, cue Aris...
Posted by: Tony (UK) || 09/16/2003 20:00 Comments || Top||

#16  Tony, don't forget one thing: The UK will always be able to leave the EU, not Germany. The EU is our golden cage we will never be able to leave even if we wanted to. Do you remember Maggie Thatcher meeting Mitterand after the wall came down? Yes, after 44 years the old fear was back. The French came up with the Euro to bind the German economic power, and we had to accept. Because Europe will never tolerate us roaming free. Imagine 1989 without the EU: Germany would have been the new pole for the Eastern European countries. Germany has been willing to forego much of its sovereignty in order to get its place in the center of Europe, a peaceful nation that doesn't inspire fear anymore. We preferred that option to aspiring a renewed bigger role in history.
I do believe that the UK is part of Europe. If you want to run unelected bureaucrats out of Brussels and replace them with democratically elected representatives of the European peoples, I'm all for it!
But if the people(s) elect their government in Brussels and a Parliament in Strasbourg, it needs to give them power. Power that will and must be taken from national power structures. Germany is ready for that, the UK (I think) is not.
And that's why I think London secretly is quite happy with the way the EU works: The longer Brussels continues to operate with bureaucrats of doubtful democratic legitimacy, London does not need to worry to give up much.
You can't have the cake and eat it.
We could have taken up George Bush Sr generous offer and become "partner in leadership" with the United States. The EU would just have faded nicely into an economic association of independent states and Germany might have emerged.. well not as a superpower but as a country that would have more to say than it has now. We didn't go that way (maybe Bush overestimated our economic power as well). We'll find out in time whether we missed a big oppportunity or not.

But Tony, if a majority of the British is sick and tired of the EU, then you should be honest enough and leave. Because Aris is right with one thing: Europe is going ahead. And as the saying goes: lead, follow or get out of the way. Obstruction is not an option.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 21:19 Comments || Top||

#17  Obstruction is always a option, it's just a matter of how well you obstruct. I thought the EU's opposition to the war in Iraq would have demonstrated that clearly.
Posted by: Charles || 09/16/2003 21:24 Comments || Top||

#18  TGA

Gernmany may be integral to the EU, but I doubt that the EU will end up being your cage. Like any other body politic, theEU will transform itslef into something that nobody anticipates (I don't mean that negatively.) I doubt that the economically suicidal portions of the EU will hold for long. France has shot holes in some of the monetary provisions already.

My belief is that the EU will become a close-knit group of states with that acts cohesively in some respects and in other respects acts more parlimentary.

I see Germany as a natural hub of the countries that it has tradtionally aligned itself with. Beyond that, the welding together of East and West Germany makes the united Germany the only significant power to have experienced both sides of the iron curtain simultaneously.

Neither France nor any other power should be able to cage a country after the populous has been through that typoe of crucible. Germany is limited only by Germans.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 21:48 Comments || Top||

#19  LOL Super Hose, that might be the other problem we have, at least for the moment.
There is some serious asskicking to do here.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 22:10 Comments || Top||

#20  Yes but---no offense to TGA--many Germans are obsessed w/trying to be the nice guys of the EU. Remember the protests against the Neutron bomb in Germany? A weapon specifically designed to save their ass! They've tied their wagon to the jackass that is France--let them pay for their disloyalty by losing EVERY American base in their country--Hungary is looking better & better! Even as a diehard LIBERAL, I resent the free ride the Germans have been given by the US
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/16/2003 22:11 Comments || Top||

#21  NMM, the neutron bomb issue was about the dumbest thing the "peace movement" came up with!

As for the free ride, no I don't think we had one. I don't know how an armed conflict would have looked like but I doubt there would have been Germans left to tell. Germany may not have been great with troops (and that was always a 4-power-obstacle then, too) but the cheque book was always there.
I have commented on the U.S. bases before: They will be there as long as YOU need them, not as long as WE do. The economic impact would be felt locally (and hitting the most U.S. friendly Germans you can find), but the impact on the national GDP would be minimal. France costs us 100 times more.
There is no such thing as a free ride NMM. Especially not with the U.S. But i don't think we were asking for one. For us, a "contained" WWIII would not have existed.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 22:25 Comments || Top||

#22  Not Mike Moore

I don't think American interest matters much to Germans in the end. Their trade partners surround them. Some are tied to Germany through language oterhs are tied to them through the shared Soviet nightmare.

France can depnd on Belgium and Luxembourg.

Some countries like Poland might harbor resentment against Germany, but Poland certainly resents its other neighbor Russia with quite a bit more recency.

I see an interesting crossroads. Can Germany reach out to others and build a constituancy? or engage in navel-gazing? I don't know but it will be exciting to watch.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 22:26 Comments || Top||

#23  Super Hose, the problem is that most Germans thought that any threat had ended in 1989. And they are not (yet) willing to see new threats.
Frankly, I think we should have kicked the hell out of the Arabs in 1973, when their oil embargo started damaging our economies (and what is often overlooked, hurt the economies in Third World countries so much more).
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 22:47 Comments || Top||


Europe
Swede Police Arrest Lindh Suspect
Police late Tuesday arrested a suspect in the stabbing death of Foreign Minister Anna Lindh, after issuing an international alert with the photo of the attacker. The suspect was described as a Swedish man, but wasn't further identified. He was detained in near a restaurant in Solna, a suburb of the capital, Stockholm, police spokeswoman Stina Wessling told The Associated Press. Police said that the suspect looks similar to the picture that was circulating and they were trying to determine if it's the same person. When asked if the arrested man was the one in the pictures, police spokesman Leif Jennekvisthe said the suspect was "not entirely different." The suspect will undergo DNA testing to see if his matches genetic material recovered from a baseball cap found near the scene. Police also recovered DNA from the knife, but the amount was too small for immediate use and was still undergoing processing. "It was not a dramatic arrest," she said, adding that plain clothes officers arrested the unarmed Swede without incident.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 20:58 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Germany still trying to extradite "Caliph of Cologne"
EFL--Read the rest at the link. Interior Minister Schily is taking terrorism and militant Islam more seriously than Schröder or Fischer...
German Interior Minister Otto Schily was in Ankara on Tuesday to seek ways to extradite a militant Islamist from Germany to Turkey but said there were still obstacles to handing him over to Turkish officials. "Some questions still need to be solved," Schily told reporters after a meeting with his Turkish counterpart Abdulkadir Aksu. A court in Cologne last month ruled against a German government request to extradite Kaplan saying that it feared he would not receive a fair trial. Turkey wants to try Metin Kaplan, the leader of the banned Kalifatstaat (Caliphate State) on charges of high treason over a 1998 plot to fly a light plane full of explosives into the mausoleum of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founder of the secular Turkish state. Kaplan has served a four-year prison term in Germany for the murder of a rival Islamist leader. He was released in May but must report regularly to police.
Posted by: seafarious || 09/16/2003 11:54:40 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Four years in prison for murder? Are you kidding me?
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 13:19 Comments || Top||

#2  The Turkish national served four years in a German prison for inciting the murder of a rival who was killed. Kaplan was the leader of the Islamic organization "Caliphate State." After another "Caliph" established himself in Berlin in 1996, Kaplan told his organization's members the man's "head should be cut off." German police promptly arrested Kaplan after the rival, named Sofu, was shot in front of his family in 1999.

"This town's only big enough for one Caliph!"
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 14:23 Comments || Top||

#3  I wonder waht the penalty will be for trying to fly a plane into the tomb of the Ataturk. I think the German government can rest assured that capital punishment will not be administrered. That would be far to humane.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 16:39 Comments || Top||


Greek Villagers try to block Athens mosque
EFL:
It was meant to showcase Athens as a modern, multi-ethnic city in the year that it stages the Olympic Games. Instead, a plan to erect the first mosque serving the capital since the end of Ottoman rule has unleashed a row pitting the reform-minded government against the Greek Orthodox Church. The rumpus has highlighted the fact that Athens is the sole EU capital without a proper Muslim arsenal bomb factory place of worship.
Now as construction workers prepare to move in, the people of Peania, which lies near the new Athens international airport, 12 miles from the capital’s centre, have stepped up a campaign to stop their area being graced with a giant dome and minaret.
Because of its proximity to the new airport, Peania was chosen as the ideal site for the mosque.
Insert your own aiport mosque joke here.
"There are no Muslims in our area. If it goes ahead, residents will react very badly," the mayor, Paraskevas Papacostopoulos, warned. "We will not be able to control them."
Cue the pitchforks and torches!
Greece’s Socialist government had hoped that the multimillion-pound mosque, which is being funded by Saudi Arabia’s King Fahd, who else? would be completed in time for Muslim athletes and spectators to use during the 2004 Olympics. The opponents blame 500 years of Ottoman Turkish rule for the anti-Muslim sentiment.
Good morning, Murat.
Last week, the Orthodox Church stepped into the fray. It urged the government to change the proposed mosque site, claiming it would give visitors the wrong impression about predominantly Christian Greece. Even worse was the government’s intention to erect an Islamic study centre alongside the mosque. "Its existence contains dangers which are known from similar centres in other European countries," the archbishop wrote in a veiled reference to Islamic terrorism.
The archbishop has been paying attention.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 9:42:39 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Please... give them anything they want, and maybe they won't get angry with us. Please, we don't want trouble.
Posted by: BH || 09/16/2003 10:30 Comments || Top||

#2  Hello Steve

I understand you like to hear my opinion here while I think you should ask Aris first as it is more of his concern. That said I can give you my opinion, it is up to the Greek government whether they want to build a mosque or not. My personal opinion is that a mosque in Athens would be good, because nowadays you have a concentration of every religion in the metropolises. I can’t believe that there are no Muslims in a metropolis like Athens where you can find people of every nationality. My personal opinion is that it is and enriching to possess mosques, churches, synagogues and budha temples in a metropolis, at least I am happy to have them in Istanbul. I think the average Greek sees a mosque more as a sign of gesture or present to the Turks and oppose it, while in fact it is an obtainment that serves their own city. I like to hear Aris his opinion.
Posted by: Murat || 09/16/2003 10:33 Comments || Top||

#3  For every new mosque in Athens, a new church in Istanbul Constantinople.
Posted by: Spot || 09/16/2003 10:34 Comments || Top||

#4  Perhaps the Islamic atheltes could just go there and worship at Hagia Sophia in Constantinople.
Posted by: Yank || 09/16/2003 11:27 Comments || Top||

#5  There are dozens of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of Muslims in Athens. And they're not mostly Turkish, but mostly Albanian instead. The rest of the immigrants are again not mostly Turkish, but rather Kurdish or Arab. So, talks about the Turkish occupation (or the churches in Istanbul or whatever) are one way or another irrelevant.

But even if the Muslims here had indeed been mostly Turkish, it wouldn't matter. It's a matter of freedom of religion that these people should finally get the chance to build a mosque in Attica, a freedom being denied them for ages now.

The Orthodox Church has been consistently disgusting in its opposition to the mosque (and hypocritical in claiming it's its *location* that bothers it -- they don't want a mosque at all in reality) the same way it has been consistently disgusting in pretty much its entire politics.

And as for that disgusting mayor and the "would not be able to control them" excuse, have money from the city vaults (and/or his personal paycheck) be used to repair every single attack or vandalism commited by hooligans against the mosque. And have the mone be used to hire guards to protect the faithful worshipping there from all that "uncontrollable" barbaric citizenry.

I'm sure he'll soon discover he can after all indeed control them.

And Spot, I want Greece to emulate the better countries, not the worse ones. What Turkey does is irrelevant.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/16/2003 12:01 Comments || Top||

#6  well Aris, I'm sure that most Mosques are not hot beds of terrorism, weapons storage centers, pulpits of hate and dissension, and communications centers for non-assimilating muslim ghettos, but....
I also don't think I've seen any of those activities in the news in Christian, Jewish, Orthodox, Hindu, etc. religious centers either. I'd oppose it on principal if there's been any of the usual muslim mischief in the area. But hey, I guess that's my fault, profiling and all...
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 13:03 Comments || Top||

#7  The Greeks hate the "Turks". And they consider most muslims "Turks". It does stem from 500 years of Ottoman rule and the repercussions from several failed rebellions against the "Turks".
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 13:25 Comments || Top||

#8  Aris are you saying that there are a lot of Moslems in the town in question and mayor Paraskevas Papacostopoulos is lying? If there are no moslems and the mosque is being built for foriegn atheletes is hardly a religious freedom issue. Temporary facilities can be made.
Posted by: Yank || 09/16/2003 13:45 Comments || Top||

#9  There may not be many Muslims in that particular suburb (I wouldn't know of so specific demographics) but there are a lot of Muslims in the wider Athens metropolitan area. Mostly Albanians, as I said.

Freedom of religion is a big issue in this as no permits are given for mosques in the center of the city, and only now, with the olympics, the government decided to let erect a mosque. Decided to erect it in the middle of nowhere of course, where it'd be difficult for any actual muslims living in the city to visit.

And as you can see some people want to stop even this tiny concession to freedom of religion. They claim the problem is the location but they don't actually suggest any other *better* location, do they now? That's why I accuse them of hypocricy.
They don't actually want to let *any* mosque be built, anywhere.

Anonymous> You'll find that most Greeks can easily distinguish between different kinds of muslims when they're interested in doing so. They've had no problem distinguishing between Kurds and Turks for example. Or Palestinians and Turks.

Don't think xenophobia and bigotry is always based on ignorance.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/16/2003 14:06 Comments || Top||

#10  "There are no Muslims in our area. If it goes ahead, residents will react very badly," the mayor, Paraskevas Papacostopoulos, warned. "We will not be able to control them."

Well, won't that be a switch...
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 15:21 Comments || Top||

#11  I'm gunna side with Aris on this one.

freedom of religion.
It's an American Ideal.

some times I wonder about you guys

Should not abandon the American Way(TM) just because you are scared. if you cant handle American liberty & Ideals and the dangers that come with it then live somewhere else and stop calling yourselves americans.

hope yer just being emotional/reactive
(as I obviously am being in this post)

I would kinda like to think of you guys as somthing OTHER than another gutless waste of life out to steal people’s rights.
Posted by: Dcreeper || 09/16/2003 15:44 Comments || Top||

#12  depends on whether you consider it a religion, a cult, a political party, or one big f*ed up amalgam of the three.
Posted by: BH || 09/16/2003 16:00 Comments || Top||

#13  Give it a rest Dcr, I'd be all for allocating mosques in the EXACT ratio in which Christian/Jewish/Hindu temples appear in Muslim controlled countries.

Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/16/2003 16:03 Comments || Top||

#14  I'm an American not a Greek so it's not my place to say what Athens should or shouldn't do, but I'll say that Aris and Murat are both right (what am I saying????). There shouldn't be a problem with any house of worship in any nation. Building a mosque in Athens is proper, as should be building a Baptist church in Riyadh.

I think we'll see the mosque in Athens first.

As far as potential criminal activity goes, that's easily solved: proper police enforcement and a no-nonsense attitude.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 16:04 Comments || Top||

#15  My whole point is that western countries allow freedom of religion (even despite opposition in some cases). However, freedom of religion in Islamic countries is represented by the "dhimmi" - whereby Christians and Jews have limited rights. Muslims are quick to whine about their rights in western countries, but don't allow others the same rights.
Posted by: Spot || 09/16/2003 16:30 Comments || Top||

#16  Mr Steve White

You have no idea of what happenned during Turkish occupation of the Balkans: from the massacres prepetrated by the Turkisk fleet in 157x (the one who was anihilated at Lepanto), to the ones during the liberation of Greece. All of this without mentionning that every fifth child in a Grek house was rapted and enslaved: the boys became Jenizers (the elite corps of the Turkish army) and the girls, I think you guess. They also remember what
the SS Hanschar division and other Muslim units did to their brothers in religion (ie the Serbs) during WWII.


There are far too many and too deep wounds for the Greeks accepting the muslims setting a beach-head in Athens. Sopecially because this is no longer the Turkey of Mustafa Kemal who worked on healing those wounds and was mde doctor honoris causa by a
Greek university. And specially when you remember that for the islamists (and Turkey has an
islamist government) once Islam has conquered a country it should never return to the Dar el Harb (the House of War ie the non-muslim world): they whin about Spain, they whin about Israel and I don't doubt they whin about the loss of Greece.

Posted by: JFM || 09/16/2003 16:33 Comments || Top||

#17  It looks to me like the Greeks are aware that it is good to have some type of place of worship for the Moslem minority. Now they ae engaged in the NIMBY (not in my backyard) process. Doesn't seem that different from America.
For example, a PBS station run by a liberal Rockefeller fought hard to keep a shelter from being erected in the vicinity of the station. The purpose of the shelter was to protect illegals from the rain while they were queuing for daily employment. The Rockefellers wanted desent conditions for illegal work seekers; they just wanted the shelter someplace away from where they worked.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 16:49 Comments || Top||

#18  All of this without mentionning that every fifth child in a Grek house was rapted and enslaved: the boys became Jenizers (the elite corps of the Turkish army)

I BELIEVE you mean Janisars, JFM. They were yet another form of dhimmitude, a sort of tax. The first units were formed from war captives and slaves. Later units were contructed from children who were taken from Christian and Jewish parents at birth, then raised to be loyal, unquestioning warriors for the state.

Janissaries trained under strict discipline with hard labour and in practically monastic conditions in acemi oglan schools, where they were expected to remain celibate and were at least encouraged to convert to Islam. Most did. For all practical purposes, janissaries belonged to the sultan. Unlike free Muslims, they were expressly forbidden to wear beards, only a moustache. Janissaries were taught to consider the corps as their home and family and the sultan as their de facto father. Only those who proved strong enough earned the rank of a true janissary at the age of 24 - 25. The regiment inherited the property of dead janissaries.

More on this can be found here:

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary

An interesting read, and one that Murat might find fascinating. Aris too. ^_^

Ed.
Posted by: Ed Becerra || 09/16/2003 17:19 Comments || Top||

#19  "...the multimillion-pound mosque, which is being funded by Saudi Arabia’s King Fahd."

Perhaps when the honour is reciprocated, I'll see this as more than religious imperialism. (OK, it doesn't have to be the King of Greece, Greek tax funds will do, paying Saudis to build a cathedral in Riyadh.) (If you follow the money, this is Western cash paying for a mosque in Athens.)

I'm all for religious tolerance, though I'm not religious myself. But if the King of Saud thinks he can build mosques, with the small change from down the back of his sofa, in kafir countries without reciprocation, then I'm opposed to it. This is not freedom of religion. It's foreign cultural imperialism. And that's a bad thing, right?
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/16/2003 18:53 Comments || Top||

#20  I was going to post the same thing! Maybe the Greek villagers would be less suspicious if all the devout muslims of Greece would gather enough of their own money to build a mosque? (Just leave out the golden minarets maybe.)
Taking money from a guy who prohibits even the use of bibles in his country, doesn't let a kaffir enter the "holy cities" and preaches a medieval (if not stone age) form of Islam that denies women the most basic rights... you get the idea?
How about German neo-nazis financing a German "church" in Athens?
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 19:05 Comments || Top||

#21  Excellent posts Bulldog and TGA--well put!
Posted by: Flaming Sword || 09/16/2003 19:15 Comments || Top||

#22  JFM> I think that your opinions about Greek feelings against the Turks aren't as up-to-date or insightful as you seem to think they are. For starters the things that happened during the Ottoman occupation are hardly anyone's concern anymore IMO (you don't see many people being hostile to Germany or Italy either for their WW2 aggression) -- it's not the age-old but rather the *lingering* wounds that mainly harm relationships between Greece and Turkey -- wounds like Cyprus. If Cyprus was to heal then the century-old hurts would eventually be left by the wayside.

And you misinterpret Greek feelings on another respect as well: In your belief that Greeks hostile to Turkey would have any love *at all* for the Kemalists or indeed prefer them any to the Islamists.

Kemal is appreciated by those who care about whether Turkey is part of the West or of the East, of Europe or of the Islamist Arab world.
But the Greece-Turkey dispute was never concerned with that --- after all it was Kemalist generals, not Islamofascists, that invaded Cyprus. It's the Kemalist Turkey that Greece has long feared.

USA fears the Islamist Turkey because Kemalist Turkey is *its* ally. But why would Greece care about that? If anything I've heard some Greek people state outright that they'd prefer an Islamist Turkey as such a one would no longer have an alliance with the West to profit from.

Bulldog> Greece no longer has a King. There does exist a funny guy running around Europe proclaiming himself to be our king, but he's quite quite ignorable. ^_^

And I've never seen human rights as a matter of reciprocation. The Greek state has retained an authority to dispense permits for places of worship to function, but consistently denied permit for a mosque in Attica -- I think that to be a violation of freedom of religion. And it's time this matter be rectified, and whether churches will be built in Saudi Arabia or not is quite beside the question... Saudi Arabia's attitude shouldn't be our role-model...
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/16/2003 19:21 Comments || Top||

#23  TGA> Arabs have been distant enough from Greece, that there's no special enmity or hostility against them from the Greek public. I really don't think that the Greeks protesting this care one bit where the money is coming from.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/16/2003 19:27 Comments || Top||

#24  Maybe those Greeks don't, I wouldn't know. But how do you feel about it, Aris? What if the money came from Bin Laden?
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 19:33 Comments || Top||

#25  I think it's great that Greece wants to build a mosque in Athens. I also think that the Saudi's in turn should build a Greek Orthadox church in Riyadh as a sign of religious tolerance and friendship. You could build them brick for brick, until both are done.

Oh, wait...it says here in the Koran "Don't befriend Jews or Christians." Sorry no deal Greece. Just do our bidding instead, like good little (future) converts.

India already tried that and the Saudi's said "Go burn in hell, you infidels."

Religious freedom and tolerance is a wonderful thing. (To muslims, these only apply if your one of them.)

Always good to see Satan opening up a new soapbox in a town near you and not me.
Posted by: Paul || 09/16/2003 19:37 Comments || Top||

#26  "I've never seen human rights as a matter of reciprocation."

So you're a moral relativist then, Aris?
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/16/2003 20:03 Comments || Top||

#27  What in the...?? No, I'm a moral absolutist, that's why I'm saying human rights aren't a matter of reciprocation. It's the relativists who see this as a matter of reciprocation.

Greece should let the mosque be built regardless of what Saudi Arabia or Turkey or any other muslim country is doing. Likewise Saudi Arabia should allow the building of christian churches even if the whole Christian world was persecuting Muslims right and left. (As had happened during the Middle-ages, when the Islamic world was more tolerant of Christians than the Christian world was of Muslims)

It's the people here who said that the mosque should be allowed to be built *only if* Saudi Arabia does that and that in return, who are the moral relativists in this case. I've always been a moral absolutist instead.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/16/2003 20:37 Comments || Top||

#28  I was referring to the financing, Aris, not to the building.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 20:45 Comments || Top||

#29  Aris, how is expecting and tolerating different standards of behaviour in any way "absolutist"? Either you believe there are basic standards of morality that should be commonly respected, or there are only relativistic standards which vary depending on the culture, nationality or other differentiating characteristic of another individual or group.

Obviously our opinion of what constitutes "moral relativism" is totally different.
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/16/2003 21:22 Comments || Top||

#30  ...My definition of "absolute" is multilateral, not unilateral. Your absolutism is akin to christian evangelism. Mine is humanistic.
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/16/2003 21:29 Comments || Top||

#31  However, in practice Bulldog, I ain't seen an Anglican Chucrch--or St Mary of the Sands Cathedral going up in Saudi
Posted by: Not Mike Moore || 09/16/2003 22:22 Comments || Top||

#32  "Aris, how is expecting and tolerating different standards of behaviour in any way "absolutist"? "

You mean the way I think that freedom of religion should be absolute? Or that human rights aren't a matter of intergovernmental agreement but must be respected even if the whole world says otherwise?

"Either you believe there are basic standards of morality that should be commonly respected, "

Yes. That's what I've been consistently saying, isn't it?

I'm getting the impression of trolling from you, for I certainly can't understand where you are coming from, and in what way do you claim I've shown myself to be morally "relativist".

"My definition of "absolute" is multilateral, not unilateral. "

An I can't figure this sentence out at all. If morality is absolute, then neither the word "multilateral" nor the word "unilateral" applies to it.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris || 09/17/2003 3:27 Comments || Top||

#33  "...whether churches will be built in Saudi Arabia or not is quite beside the question... Saudi Arabia's attitude shouldn't be our role-model..."

That's
where you're being relativistic, Aris. As I and others have pointed out, this is a mosque built by a Saudi, in a non-Muslim country when, hypocritically, that same Saudi does not permit the building of non-Muslim places of worship, including those of the predominant Greek religion, in his own country. That is a quite blatant double-standard, and ignoring that important factor is what makes you a moral relativist. It is not "quite beside the question", at all.

If the mosque was being built by local Muslims using their own funds, I wouldn't have any problem with it, but this will be as much a symbol as a place of worship. And the symbolism will be the glory of King Saud the Intolerant.

What you are saying is that Greek attitude towards the King of Saudi should not be affected by his hypocrisy. That you should do as he wishes without expecting any concessions on his part, in other words unilateral standards of behaviour rather than bilateral standards. Would you object to TGA's scenario of German neo-Nazis building a shrine in Athens? Would you be happy if Kim Il Sung gave millions of Euros to build a giant "Kim's Proselytizing School of Communism and Juche" in Piraeus, to cater for the Greek communist community, without expecting something similar in return? American Airlines using your airport but no Greek carriers allowed to use American airports?

PS I'm glad to hear you've got yourselves a new airport. From what I remember, touching down at the old one felt like landing on a grass strip.
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/17/2003 5:55 Comments || Top||


Berlusconi launches ’puppeteer’ libel case
(Great Pictures)

Italian leader Silvio Berlusconi has launched a 15-million euro libel suit against the country’s main opposition leader.

Piero Fassino had accused the prime minister of being the "puppet master" behind allegations that senior left-wingers creamed off millions of euros from a business deal.
BWAHAHAhahaha! Dance, my minions!

Mr Berlusconi’s lawsuit, quoted by sources, said the comments could not pass unchallenged.

"It is unacceptable...for assertions to be made that the current prime minister instigated, or worse, was directly involved in calumny," Mr Berlusconi’s suit said, according to the sources.

Mr Fassino, leader of the Democrats of the Left party, now says he will seek the same amount - 15 million euros - from a paper edited by the prime minister’s brother Paolo.

The paper, Il Giornale, has frequently run details of the allegations on its front page.
Pure coincidence, I assure you...

The left-wing politicians at the centre of the allegations include European Commission president Romano Prodi, former foreign minister Lamberto Dini and Mr Fassino himself. All three deny wrongdoing.
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 1:36:56 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Schroeder Chirac and Blair to meet in Berlin to discuss Iraq. Berlusconi (president of the EU) not invited.

What goes around comes around...

Maybe his latest gaffe about Mussolini who "never killed anyone" has something to do with it?
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 16:27 Comments || Top||

#2  What if B, during the court case, can prove the allegations?

I'm all for Prodi getting tossed overboard. Some of the stuff he's proposed makes me glad I'm here.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 17:56 Comments || Top||

#3  Not likely. First of all, Berlusconi believes (and says) that all Italian judges are leftist traitors and then, if he could really convince the judges, Prodi would beat Berlusconi with his own game and refuse judges and court and get a new trial somewhere else and so on...
I feel like sueing Berlusconi myself. If Mussolini really didn't kill anyone I am just wondering how all these Italian Jews ever made it to the German camps (many before 1943 btw)
I find the Rantburg adulation for Berlusconi (just because he supported Iraq) rather annoying. Imagine a German leader saying the Hitler after all wasn't really such a bad guy.
And imagine that this guy not only controls over 80 percent of the media (television, newspapers, radio). He owns them.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 19:28 Comments || Top||

#4  From the perspective of a US observer. The guy looks like a local deal-maker slightly out of his league. The Cincinati Reds had an owner named Marge Shcott that had the same type of personality. It was good to have her on your side, but she was always putting her foot in her mouth. She used to says things like:

1. Hitler started out good he just went too far
2. My players can't wear earrings. It's a new fad but in my day any guy with an earing was a little bit funny.

She did a bunch of embarassing stuff and eventually was forced to sell the team. There were fewer funny stories in the paper after they retired her.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 22:33 Comments || Top||

#5  I'll go for the fewer funny stories in that case. A team is one thing, a European country another. Berlusconi knows very well how to use his bizarre behaviour to mask his true self as a corrupt, mafioso wannabe "Bacterian" dictator in an excellent suit.
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 22:53 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
Counterpoint: Media in the Hip Pocket of Bush Due to Fox News
article from USA today via Drudge

Amanpour: CNN practiced self-censorship

CNN’s top war correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, says that the press muzzled itself during the Iraq war. And, she says CNN "was intimidated" by the Bush administration and Fox News, which "put a climate of fear and self-censorship."
As criticism of the war and its aftermath intensifies, Amanpour joins a chorus of journalists and pundits who charge that the media largely toed the Bush administrationline in covering the war and, by doing so, failed to aggressively question the motives behind the invasion.

On last week’s Topic A With Tina Brown on CNBC, Brown, the former Talk magazine editor, asked comedian Al Franken, former Pentagon spokeswoman Torie Clarke and Amanpour if "we in the media, as much as in the administration, drank the Kool-Aid when it came to the war."

Said Amanpour: "I think the press was muzzled, and I think the press self-muzzled. I’m sorry to say, but certainly television and, perhaps, to a certain extent, my station was intimidated by the administration and its foot soldiers at Fox News. And it did, in fact, put a climate of fear and self-censorship, in my view, in terms of the kind of broadcast work we did."

Brown then asked Amanpour if there was any story during the war that she couldn’t report. This appears to be a request for a concrete example.


"It’s not a question of couldn’t do it, it’s a question of tone," Amanpour said. "It’s a question of being rigorous. It’s really a question of really asking the questions. All of the entire body politic in my view, whether it’s the administration, the intelligence, the journalists, whoever, did not ask enough questions, for instance, about weapons of mass destruction. I mean, it looks like this was disinformation at the highest levels."

My mistake Brown was obviously looking for generalities and had no need for specifics. Just kind of a rough feel on how the reporting was done. The jist of things...

Clarke called the disinformation charge "categorically untrue" and added, "In my experience, a little over two years at the Pentagon, I never saw them (the media) holding back. I saw them reporting the good, the bad and the in between."

Fox News spokeswoman Irena Briganti said of Amanpour’s comments: "Given the choice, it’s better to be viewed as a foot soldier for Bush than a spokeswoman for al-Qaeda."

CNN had no comment. No mention of Al Franken’s opinion on this important subject. I wonder why lady he supported.

Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 12:42:44 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Christiane, wife of former Clinton flack Jamie Rubin, has been a whore for Arab thugocracies for years, which is why CNN is such a good fit for her. Which is also why Bush, Fox et al give her and her ilk such fits. The least they could do is identify her close relations with a former Dem regime here every time she speaks in criticism of Bush (it's called honest disclosure, something CNN has in short supply)
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 12:49 Comments || Top||

#2  More recently, Ms. Amanpour retracted her claims after a chance meeting at Saks with Fox anchor E.D. Hill, who threatened to punch her lights out if she didn't recant.
Posted by: Hodadenon || 09/16/2003 13:01 Comments || Top||

#3  Amanpour is going to jello wrestle Rita Cosby after the next Democratic Presidential Candidates' Debate on Fox.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/16/2003 13:37 Comments || Top||

#4  From Randal Robinson's blog:
The Top 10 Ways Fox News Intimidated CNN

10. Sent Greta Van Susteren to use a little muscle on Aaron Brown.
9. Fox and Friends urged viewers to egg Paula Zahn's house.
8. Neil Cavuto challenged Lou Dobbs to a Financial News Death Match.
7. Sean Hannity snapped Larry King's suspenders and raised a welt.
6. Brit Hume shaved off Wolf Blitzer's beard and held it hostage.
5. Fox anchors kept referring to CNN as the "Commie News Network."
4. Laurie Dhue's makeup tips caused Christiane Amanpour's skin to break out.
3. Geraldo Rivera threatened to nuke CNN's ratings "back to MSNBC country."
2. Painted Fox News helicopters black and had them hover over CNN headquarters.
1. Bill O'Reilly's mean smirks sent shivers of fear throughout CNN.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 13:55 Comments || Top||

#5  If Christiane wants lips like Laurie Dhue's, maybe Laurie can drop by the house and kick her in the mouth.
...and is Greta Van Sustern really Clutch Cargo in drag??? Or did Clutch spring for the operation?
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 15:19 Comments || Top||

#6  Wonder what Christiane Amanpour has to say about CNN and other western networks (not Fox, apparently) paying the Iraqi Information Ministry lots of dollars in fees, bribes, etc. so that they could report from Baghdad whatever their handlers told them to say.

Christiane? Hello? Hello?
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 16:07 Comments || Top||

#7  Aww! So po' wittle CNN couldn't lie and get away with it while FOX was there to call 'em on it? Aww, poor pookie needs a lolly and a kissy to make the boo boo feel better?

CNN was obviously counting on their liberal competetors to play from the same "Bash Bush, Bash the war" sheet of music, hoping that they could one-up them on their reputation and hard-laid, er paid, er won, access to the biggies in Iraq. But Fox gave a rounding rendition of "Stars and Stripes Forever", stole the heart of the audience, and smoked their asses.

In the end, CNN couldn't do what they wanted to do, because Fox presented itself as a patriotic alternative and would have drawn away viewers that CNN hoped to keep by default.

Typical loooooser! "It's not my fault! It's HIS fault!"


Posted by: Ptah || 09/16/2003 16:19 Comments || Top||

#8  According to Drudge Christiane got a "private dressing down" by CNN execs over the interview....ewwwww bad visual, kinda like Sean Ono Lennon cutting the clothes off his caterwauling cretin of a mother yesterday
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 17:03 Comments || Top||

#9  Amanpour: "It’s really a question of really asking the questions."

A quote for the ages, right there.
Posted by: Jeff Brokaw || 09/16/2003 17:44 Comments || Top||

#10  Does anyone remember a press confab where she stood up and said the press didn't do enough to stop W from getting elected?
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 18:00 Comments || Top||

#11  The problem the more liberal-minded press figures had/have with the Iraq war coverage stems from Pentagon decision to "embed" reporters.The embeds had more exciting visuals,an "I'm right at the action feel,and a more positive,pro-US,pro-troop vibe.Given a choice between showing some reporter asking some PR figure a question or showing footage live from the battlefield,what do you think a news director airs?Once embeds left,network/CNN coverage became more traditional-reporters not knowing what actually happens on ground grilling various civil/military PR types.I wonder if there is any ill-will toward imbedded reporters once they came back home for being too pro-US?I do notice none of the embeds were heavily promoted by networks during war(unless they were killed),and none have been promoted as a rising network star because of work in Iraq.
Posted by: Stephen || 09/16/2003 19:11 Comments || Top||

#12  Message for Miss Amanpour:

"Your new spine transplant surgery has been moved up to next week since the situation is worse than the doctors first thought."

"Your replacement case of Depends(TM) diapers just arrived..."

"...and your mommy called and said not to be afraid, she's bringing you your favorite Teddy Bear and night light over this evening."

Posted by: Paul || 09/16/2003 19:48 Comments || Top||

#13  Amanpour has officially joined the tin-foil hat brigade. She rightly deserves all the mocking that comes her way!
Posted by: debbie || 09/16/2003 20:13 Comments || Top||

#14  "All of the entire body politic in my view, whether it’s the administration, the intelligence, the journalists, whoever, did not ask enough questions, for instance, about weapons of mass destruction. I mean, it looks like this was disinformation at the highest levels."

If you don't ask questions you don't get answers. That is not accepting dis-information, it is not asking if there is information. Which there certainly was, even French and German Intelligence believe[d] in Iraqi WMD.

And what's up with being intimated by another news (Fox) agency? Do they carry AK-47's or something?

Posted by: John Anderson || 09/16/2003 21:30 Comments || Top||

#15  Hahahahahaaa......."foot soldiers at Fox News"....haahahahahahaaaaaa.....

Hey Ms. Amanpour! All your phones are tapped!

HAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 22:56 Comments || Top||

#16  and is Greta Van Sustern really Clutch Cargo in drag???

...My God, I thought I was the only one who remembered Clutch Cargo. I still see those...lips....in my nightmares. BTW, did anyone here know that Ms Van Sustren is almost 60? True fact!

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 09/17/2003 0:54 Comments || Top||


Point: Media in Sadaam’s Hip Pocket says Burns
The following are the words of New York Times correspondent John F. Burns, on his experiences reporting from Baghdad during the war.
From editorandpublisher.com via Drudge.

From the point of view of my being in Baghdad, I had more authority than anybody else. Without contest, I was the most closely watched and unfavored of all the correspondents there because of what I wrote about terror whilst Saddam Hussein was still in power.

Snip (self-congradualtion continues)

It was also the essential truth that was untold by the vast majority of correspondents here. Why? Because they judged that the only way they could keep themselves in play here was to pretend that it was okay.

There were correspondents who thought it appropriate to seek the approbation of the people who governed their lives. This was the ministry of information, and particularly the director of the ministry. By taking him out for long candlelit dinners, plying him with sweet cakes, plying him with mobile phones at $600 each for members of his family, and giving bribes of thousands of dollars. Senior members of the information ministry took hundreds of thousands of dollars of bribes from these television correspondents who then behaved as if they were in Belgium. They never mentioned the function of minders. Never mentioned terror.

In one case, a correspondent actually went to the Internet Center at the Al-Rashid Hotel and printed out copies of his and other people’s stories -- mine included -- specifically in order to be able to show the difference between himself and the others. He wanted to show what a good boy he was compared to this enemy of the state. He was with a major American newspaper.

Yeah, it was an absolutely disgraceful performance. CNN’s Eason Jordan’s op-ed piece in The New York Times missed that point completely. The point is not whether we protect the people who work for us by not disclosing the terrible things they tell us. Of course we do. But the people who work for us are only one thousandth of one percent of the people of Iraq. So why not tell the story of the other people of Iraq? It doesn’t preclude you from telling about terror. Of murder on a mass scale just because you won’t talk about how your driver’s brother was murdered.

snip (detailed recount of journalists heroism)

Now this son of a bitch sits in his home about three miles from here, saying he expects to be re-appointed director general of information. He has been meeting with director generals of ministries and is using a vetting process where they will disqualify only senior Ba’ath Party officials. I think this guy will be disqualified because he was a Mukhabarat official, but he is now saying to visiting correspondents, "Well, of course, we all knew it was time for a change in Iraq." This was a man who is incapable of telling the truth, who attempted at every opportunity to seduce Western women correspondents. He was screwing people in his office. He had photographs of himself and Saddam Hussein and a box of Viagra. This was a loathsome character altogether.

Left in some of the naughty bits about Viagra.
...

Now left with the residue of all of this, I would say there are serious lessons to be learned. Editors of great newspapers, and small newspapers, and editors of great television networks should exact from their correspondents the obligation of telling the truth about these places. It’s not impossible to tell the truth. I have a conviction about closed societies, that they’re actually much easier to report on than they seem, because the act of closure is itself revealing. Every lie tells you a truth. If you just leave your eyes and ears open, it’s extremely revealing.

Note the NYT jouralist thinks all reporters should be heros like him. Inspirational to the writers in teh Fashion and Metro sections throughout the world.

We now know that this place was a lot more terrible than even people like me had thought. There is such a thing as absolute evil. I think people just simply didn’t recognize it. They rationalized it away. I cannot tell you with what fury I listened to people tell me throughout the autumn that I must be on a kamikaze mission. They said it with a great deal of glee, over the years, that this was not a place like the others.

I did a piece on Uday Hussein and his use of the National Olympic Committee headquarters as a torture site. It’s not just journalists who turned a blind eye. Juan Antonio Samaranch of the International Olympic Committee could not have been unaware that Western human rights reports for years had been reporting the National Olympic Committee building had been used as a torture center. I went through its file cabinets and got letter after letter from Juan Antonio Samaranch to Uday Saddam Hussein: "The universal spirit of sport," "My esteemed colleague." The world chose in the main to ignore this.

For some reason or another, Mr. Bush chose to make his principal case on weapons of mass destruction, which is still an open case. This war could have been justified any time on the basis of human rights, alone.

As far as I am concerned, when they hire me, they hire somebody who has a conscience and who has a passion about these things. I think I was a little bit advantaged in this, because I am 58 years old.

Look, I don’t believe in the journalist as hero, because I think that wherever we go, and whatever degree of resolve that may be required of us, there are always much, much braver people than us. I travel in a suit of armor. I work for The New York Times. That means that I have the renown of the paper, plus the power of the United States government. Let’s be honest. Should anything untoward come to me, I have a flak jacket. I have a wallet full with dollars. I’m here by choice. I have the incentive of being on the front page of The New York Times, and being nominated for major newspaper prizes.

The people who we write about have none of these advantages. They are stuck here with no food and no money. I don’t want to be pious about this, but for a journalist to present himself as a hero in this situation is completely and totally bogus.

We have the lure of a spectacular reward. That draws us on. I got a Pulitzer Prize in Sarajevo, which was awarded for "bravery" or something somewhere in the citation. I said, and I absolutely meant it, "I assume that we are talking here about chronicling the bravery of the people of a city that was being murdered. That was where bravery came into this. Then there were no rewards save the possibility of surviving." So I don’t want to present myself here as anything like that. No, I don’t. As a matter of fact, I think this vainglorious ambition is part of the same problem really. It is the pursuit of power. Renown. Fame.

This writer that won a Pullitser that may have sited him for bravery takes a tough stand against self-agrandizement. Does Morten’s sell its salt grains in bulk.

There is corruption in our business. We need to get back to basics. This war should be studied and talked about. In the run up to this war, to my mind, there was a gross abdication of responsibility. You have to be ready to listen to whispers.

Final message: all other journalists are hacks and corrupt -even his friends.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 12:32:06 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sh, I think I misssed your point. Burns seems to have opened a can of worms that the rest of the media won't touch with a ten foot pole. The media is full of liars, cheats and thieves? I thought only Bush and Co were that. Oh never mind.
Posted by: john || 09/16/2003 15:21 Comments || Top||

#2  Burns is actually a damned good reporter, and it looks like he's naming the elephant in the middle of the room. This could be very interesting.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 16:10 Comments || Top||

#3  I agree with what Burns says. I think he makes an excellent couterpoint to Ammapour. What he is saying is very important and true. The complete article is worth reading.

That said, I found his report very self-aggrandizing. He pushes the NYT like it is the Daily Planet. I felt I could picture who was playing the Clark Kent role in his fantasy world.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 16:59 Comments || Top||

#4  Mo Dowd as a bitchy Lois Lane? Thanks SH for ruining that cartoon for me
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 17:04 Comments || Top||

#5  I think all reporters, as with actors, are people who crave attention and that is why they go into the career fields that they do. They're self-aggrandizing by their very nature. "I know more than you!"

That said, John Burns was one of the best there in Baghdad. His reports in the NYTimes were often the only ones worth reading and I looked forward to his PBS "News Hour" phone calls to Jim Leher (sp?).
Posted by: JDB || 09/16/2003 17:08 Comments || Top||

#6  JDB - then he needs to name the other paper
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 19:33 Comments || Top||

#7  Frank

Did you read the entire article? He relays a story about hiding in another reporter's room while trying to prevent death and disaster during the bombing of the Information Ministry. It is kind of surreal and beyond belief in several places.

I have not run across the guy before. I don't go to the Times for news and last watched PBS in High School. I was a fan of Dr. Who.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 21:59 Comments || Top||


Great White North
Illinois wants Canadian drugs (no, not cannabis)
Socialized health care ain’t all that bad it seems.
President George W. Bush is facing open and growing defiance over the cost of prescription drugs in this country after the state of Illinois said it was poised to begin buying cheaper medicines from Canada.
Wohooo! Time to pick up some Canadian bio-stocks.
The state, the fifth-most populous in the country, would be the largest market to join the buy-Canada groundswell, setting up an epic battle between cash-strapped state and local jurisdictions and a White House which seems determined to protect the profits of U.S. drug makers. California has indicated it, too, would move to purchase drugs for state employees from Canada, but has been sternly warned by the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA) it would be breaking the law because the safety of reimported prescription drugs can’t be guaranteed. The city of Springfield, Mass., has already enrolled 800 city employees in a voluntary program in which their prescription drugs are purchased through a Canadian wholesaler. And according to some estimates, 10 million Americans are already buying their medication from Canada.
The move to Canadian drug purchases, either through storefront facilitators or over the Internet, has mushroomed since seniors joined bus tours to cross the border for drug-buying trips 10 years ago.
"Welcome to Canada! On your left, the much more prettier side of the Niagara Falls, and on your right, Shopper’s Drug Mart.
On average, drugs in the U.S. — the only industrialized nation where manufacturers set the price unfettered by government regulation — are 67-per-cent more expensive than in Canada. If Illinois, following a 90-day study, moves to purchase its drugs for 240,000 state employees and retirees, it would save the state tens of millions of dollars in benefit costs. But it could eventually bump up prescription-drug prices in Canada.
Damn. I knew it was too good to be true.
That fear stems from moves by four of the world’s largest drug makers to begin choking off supplies to Canadian pharmacies which reimport drugs to American consumers. If a national trend toward buying Canadian continues, the supplies are expected to be further curtailed, and big drug companies on this side of the border can put pressure on Canadian prices by controlling supply.
Aha, plan B. Sometimes I wonder why we even bother with NAFTA.
This unexpected political grenade for Bush as he begins his 2004 re-election campaign stems from a stunning vote in the U.S. House of Representatives in July, when Congress ignored drug-industry lobbying and voted to allow reimportation of Canadian drugs. But Bush, whose Republican party received $31.3 million from the prescription-drug industry in the 2000 and 2002 elections, has threatened to veto any reimportation legislation, and 53 senators signed a letter circulated by the drug industry opposing the House legislation.
For $31mil I will sign anything too.
The drug industry in this country says it needs profits to channel the money back into research, but it spent $91.4 million on 675 lobbyists to take its case to legislators in 2001.
Good point. The research bit I understand...but the lobbying is another story.
"The skyrocketing cost of prescription medications is a huge burden for consumers and for taxpayers who help pay for state employees’ health costs," Illinois Democratic Governor Rod Blagojevich said. "Anything we can do that safely and effectively reduces those costs is definitely worth looking into. I am optimistic we can set a precedent other states can follow."
By day’s end, SeniorMedications.com was already advertising on the Internet, welcoming Illinois seniors to order their drugs from Winnipeg’s McGregor Clinic Pharmacy. Another Winnipeg firm, called American Drug Club, opened its fourth Michigan outlet yesterday in Lansing. The stores are touted as low-cost prescription assistance centres. Staff provide price information to customers and help them order drugs from Canadian pharmacies. The Lansing outlet’s president, Robert Zeineh, a Detroit paramedic, told Associated Press his mission is to connect mid-Michigan’s uninsured and underinsured with less-costly Canadian prescription drugs.
So there you have it. Socialized or not, the answer is somwhere in between.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/16/2003 12:56:29 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  BTW, there's a bit more to the story at the link.
Posted by: Rafael || 09/16/2003 13:05 Comments || Top||

#2  Sometimes I wish English was a little more precise. When they ask me "Do you have drugs" I never know whether they mean aspirin or heroin...
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 16:29 Comments || Top||

#3  If I were making a new and inovative medicine, I would only sell it in the US where I could se the price until my patent expired.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 17:10 Comments || Top||

#4  --But it could eventually bump up prescription-drug prices in Canada.--

Bout time they started paying their fair share. Now if we could get *the world* led by phrawnce......
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 17:55 Comments || Top||

#5  These "buy Canadian drugs" programs are buying US drugs back, that is what is meant by 'cheaper': if it was Canadian drugs, no problem... Canada and others have been using the size of their bulk-buying budget and the threat of world opinion ("They won't sell our sick people life-saving medicine!") to get prices cut: not that bad for, say, pillowcases which haven't and won't be changed or superceded - but yes, R&D costs are what get from such sales of medicine.
Posted by: John Anderson || 09/16/2003 21:42 Comments || Top||

#6  John Anderson,

That's why I would only sell innovative medicine directly in the US market. Let an exporter pay for a volume discount if they want, but the overall economics will wash out any advantage to re-import.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 22:03 Comments || Top||


Canadiens Complain About Low Quality Available In Socialized Care
from Canada.com via Worldnetdaily.com

OTTAWA (CP) - Some of the first patients to smoke Health Canada’s government-approved marijuana say it’s "disgusting" and want their money back.

"It’s totally unsuitable for human consumption," said Jim Wakeford, 58, an AIDS patient in Gibsons, B.C. "It gave me a slight buzziness for about three to five minutes, and that was it. I got no other effect from it." Barrie Dalley, a 52-year-old Toronto man who uses marijuana to combat the nausea associated with AIDS, said the Health Canada dope actually made him sick to his stomach.

"I threw up," Dalley said Monday. "It made me nauseous because I had to use so much of it. It was so weak in potency that I really threw up."

Both men are returning their 30-gram bags, and Dalley is demanding his money back - $150 plus taxes. Wakeford is returning his unpaid bill for two of the bags with a letter of complaint.

A third AIDS patient says he’s also unhappy with the product, which is supposed to contain 10.2 per cent THC, the main active ingredient.

"I’m still smoking it - I would prefer better, but it’s all I’ve got," said Jari Dvorak, 62, in Toronto. "I think Health Canada certainly should do better with the quality."

All three are among 10 patients who have registered with Health Canada to buy dope directly from the government to alleviate their medical symptoms. Another 39 applications are pending.

The department was compelled to begin direct distribution in July, following an Ontario court order this year that said needy patients should not be forced to get their cannabis on the streets or from authorized growers, who themselves obtain seeds or cuttings illegally.

The marijuana is being grown for Health Canada deep underground in a vacant mine section in Flin Flon, Man., by Prairie Plant Systems on a $5.75-million contract. The department originally intended that the product go first to accredited researchers to demonstrate whether or not cannabis is medically effective.

Health Minister Anne McLellan has said she opposes the direct distribution of government cannabis to patients and that the program will end if the department wins its appeal of the Ontario court decision.

In Quebec City on Monday, McLellan said she is willing to have officials from her department compare notes with the smokers.

"We’re learning as we go along and I’d be happy to have my officials meet with these people."

The government dope also came under fire Monday from Canadians for Safe Access, a patients’ rights group that is pressing for supplies of safe, effective marijuana.

Laboratory tests indicate the Health Canada product has only about three per cent THC - not the 10.2 per cent advertised - and contains contaminants such as lead and arsenic, said spokesman Philippe Lucas of Victoria.

"This particular product wouldn’t hold a candle to street level cannabis," he said in an interview.

But Lucas declined to identify the three labs that did the testing, other than to indicate they’re in Vancouver, saying he fears the facilities might suffer repercussions from Health Canada because they were not authorized to possess the cannabis.

He also would not say how the group obtained the sample of government dope.

A spokeswoman for Health Canada said the department can’t accept laboratory findings from anonymous facilities.

"We question the validity of the test results because Canadians for Safe Access has been unwilling to reveal who did the testing, and when the testing was done, and under what conditions," said Krista Apse.

She said the Flin Flon cannabis had to meet exacting production standards and was thoroughly tested for its quality.

No patients have complained directly to Health Canada so far, Apse said, and the department will not accept returns or provide refunds.

McLellan said she would need more scientific analysis to convince her that the pot needs to be stronger.

"We analysed the product obviously, independently, to ensure quality and potency. If they want to share information with us, who did the analysis, the basis on which it was done, I’m sure we could arrange for them to meet and determine why apparently these different results have arisen."

Lucas, who smokes marijuana to cope with his hepatitis C infection, said the lab results also showed that the cannabis provided at a Victoria compassion club for patients registers at more than 12 per cent and is freer from contaminants.

He said the government cannabis was too finely ground up with stems and leaves, calling it "shwag" or "bunk," street terminology for the lowest grade of marijuana.

Besides trying to put low income South American growers out of business by subsidizing local produce, Canada efforts to lure away an important constituency of the city of San Fransisco with a program documented in this link. My favorite part is the "chill room."
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 11:34:32 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Who the hell grows weed in a mineshaft? Ok, so maybe if you're the typical pot grower trying to avoid IR detection from overhead, but this is the Canadian Government contractor! Get a freakin' clue, you doofuses.
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 12:28 Comments || Top||

#2  What happens when gay Canadians smoke medical marijuana during their wedding ceremony?
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/16/2003 12:33 Comments || Top||

#3 
" Laboratory tests indicate the Health Canada product has only about three per cent THC - not the 10.2 per cent advertised - and contains contaminants such as lead and arsenic..."
Gee, it's a good thing the Canadian gov't isn't running the beer or whiksy business... it's be HELL on exports!
Posted by: Old Grouch || 09/16/2003 12:34 Comments || Top||

#4  officials from her department compare notes with the smokers

"So...how'd you roll yours?"
Posted by: Rafael || 09/16/2003 12:40 Comments || Top||

#5  Mineshaft? Medicinal mushrooms maybe lol
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 13:42 Comments || Top||

#6  Any normal drug company would have to go through years of testing to get a drug approved for use, But for the government, it's OK to use patients as guinea pigs.

Course they (the government) really wanted this program to fail. Success!
Posted by: john || 09/16/2003 15:17 Comments || Top||

#7  The link I included is to an article announcing the opening of a Vancover "shooting gallery" where heroine can be consumed in a safe enviroment for junkies. I would expect that property values in the neighborhood were enhansed.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 17:14 Comments || Top||


Canadian Tokers Complain: Gov Dope Bunk
Some of the first patients to smoke Health Canada’s government-approved marijuana say it’s "disgusting" and want their money back. "It’s totally unsuitable for human consumption," said Jim Wakeford, 58, an AIDS patient in Gibsons, B.C. "It gave me a slight buzziness for about three to five minutes, and that was it. I got no other effect from it."
Barrie Dalley, a 52-year-old Toronto man who uses marijuana to combat the nausea associated with AIDS, said the Health Canada dope actually made him sick to his stomach. "I threw up," Dalley said Monday. "It made me nauseous because I had to use so much of it. It was so weak in potency that I really threw up."
"Bogus dope, man. I kept toking and toking and still no high."
Both men are returning their 30-gram bags, and Dalley is demanding his money back - $150 plus taxes. Wakeford is returning his unpaid bill for two of the bags with a letter of complaint. A third AIDS patient says he’s also unhappy with the product, which is supposed to contain 10.2 per cent THC, the main active ingredient. All three are among 10 patients who have registered with Health Canada to buy dope directly from the government to alleviate their medical symptoms.
The department was compelled to begin direct distribution in July, following an Ontario court order this year that said needy patients should not be forced to get their cannabis on the streets or from authorized growers, who themselves obtain seeds or cuttings illegally.
"We want cannabis because we’re sick!"
"OK, here’s your medicial marijuana."
"Hey, this stuff is bogus! We’re not getting high, er, healthy."

The marijuana is being grown for Health Canada deep underground in a vacant mine section in Flin Flon, Man., by Prairie Plant Systems on a $5.75-million contract.
OK, there’s the problem. Everyone knows the best dope is grown in a closet, er, or so I’ve been told.
The department originally intended that the product go first to accredited researchers to demonstrate whether or not cannabis is medically effective.
They’re still testing, could take a while.
Laboratory tests indicate the Health Canada product has only about three per cent THC - not the 10.2 per cent advertised - and contains contaminants such as lead and arsenic, said spokesman Philippe Lucas of Victoria.
Typical government issue
"This particular product wouldn’t hold a candle to street level cannabis," he said in an interview.
Can’t beat the free market.
Lucas, who smokes marijuana to cope with his hepatitis C infection, said the lab results also showed that the cannabis provided at a Victoria compassion club for patients registers at more than 12 per cent and is freer from contaminants.
He said the government cannabis was too finely ground up with stems and leaves, calling it "shwag" or "bunk," street terminology for the lowest grade of marijuana.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 9:00:17 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  the term is ..er..Skag. How long before a suit hits the gov't for providing bad dope, lead poisoning, etc.
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 9:39 Comments || Top||

#2  Duuuude . . . this skag is, like, harshing my mellow.
Posted by: Mike || 09/16/2003 9:42 Comments || Top||

#3  ...and these government-made Oreos are total sh*t!
Posted by: BH || 09/16/2003 10:33 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm surprised the Canadian government didn't make them put filters on the ends of the joints as well. Unfiltered smoke is sooo unhealthy.
Posted by: Yank || 09/16/2003 11:23 Comments || Top||

#5  I don't know what they are complaining about.

What do they expect from a socialized medical system?

I guarantee you that the folks who smoke medicinal marijuana here in California, a free market medical system, never have the complaints that the Canadians have.

In fact, the guys I know who are card carrying medicinal pot smokers (Oakland Club) never seem to complain much at all.

I think I will forward the article to the White House. They can use it in a point paper to push their views against socialized medicine.
Posted by: Jerry Garcia || 09/16/2003 11:46 Comments || Top||

#6  Hey, Jerry! What's goin' on at the Other Side™?
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 13:28 Comments || Top||

#7  My brother is one of those 'card-carrying' patients. Trust me he is not getting better, he is frying his brain. What make it worse is that he gets SSI and a malpractice settlement. So while I schlep off to work everyday, he ‘harvests’ some medicine from his garden. He claims that the pot is the only thing that helps him but the side effects are that he fries his brain a little more each day. I might feel better about it but there are a whole lot of ‘patients’ he hangs around with.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/16/2003 16:23 Comments || Top||


India-Pakistan
Jaish warns of suicide attacks
The Jaish-e-Mohammad warned on Tuesday it plans to target Indian leaders in suicide bombings that would be “shocking for India”.
"Noep. Nope. Don't need no peace processor..."
Spokesman Wali Hassan Baba, in a telephone interview with The Associated Press, said the attacks would be revenge for the assassination of a top Jaish commander by Indian security forces in Srinagar. “The purpose of killing these people is to avenge the martyrdom of Ghazi Baba,” he said. “We have formed suicide bombing squads to kill top personalities. These killings will break India’s backbone.” Mr Hassan Baba said he was speaking from Azad Kashmir.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 22:43 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  These guys are begging to become a smoking, glowing Roentgen Soup Bowl™ if they go through with their threat. India has been quite restrained in their responses to these terrorists. Perv better rein in the Jihadi Mad Doggies before all hell rains down on PakLand.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 22:52 Comments || Top||

#2  Their intent is to set off a major war between the two states, with Pak using its "Islamic nukes." I don't think they comprehend the consequences...
Posted by: Fred || 09/16/2003 23:33 Comments || Top||

#3  ...or care.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 23:36 Comments || Top||


Army nabs LeT commander in Jammu and Kashmir
The Army on Sunday arrested a top Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) commander in Doda district of Jammu and Kashmir. Mohd Shezad, 25-year-old resident of Lathiwala village in Pakistan’s Faisalabad distict, is the LeT commander in Banihal area of Doda district. He was arrested in injured condition after an encounter. Shezad rubbished Pakistan’s disclaimers that it did not provide any help to militants and said LeT and other terrorist outfits openly run their offices in his native district and other places to lure youth into "jehad" in Jammu and Kashmir through literature and other means. He said Pakistani army does "everything" to facilitate infiltration of terrorists and they are lodged at Pakistan army’s border posts before being pushed into Kashmir. "I too was motivated to join in as I was told that mosques are being burnt down in J&K and Muslims are being oppressed. But I did not find anything of that sort happening here", he said. Shehzad said he underwent eight months training with at least 1000 other terrorists at one of the 10 camps of LeT in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 09/16/2003 1:31:53 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Shezad better watch his mouth or they'll put him in the "well done" section of a Saudi prison
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 14:49 Comments || Top||


No militancy in seminaries: Fazl
Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam Amir Maulana Fazlur Rehman on Monday refuted Afghan allegations that religious schools were training camps for militants, saying the allegations were “absolutely baseless”.
"Lies! All lies!"
In a telephone interview with the Voice of America, the party chief said the Pakistan Government, his party and the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal had been following a policy of non-interference in Afghanistan. “We have instructed our colleagues that they should not do such things that could result in complaints from the Afghan government,” he said. “The Afghans and people living in our tribal areas have close relations with each other. They have also close ties as teachers and students. So to stop these people is impossible as neither the Pakistan and nor the Afghan governments can cut off their blood and spiritual ties. I would say that there has been no such things happening on our side and I do not know if these allegations carry any weight. The problem of Afghanistan has been that of the Afghan people and Pakistan never intervened in their affairs.”
Then his lips fell off and God struck him dead...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:33 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Four would-be assassins caught
The Mujahid Squad Police on Monday arrested four men who were planning an assassination at the Lahore High Court. The men had planned to kill a girl in the name of honour, to prevent her from appearing before the court to get married.
Married? The brazen hussy!
Duty officer Muhammad Murtaza said the police signaled a car on the Multan Road to stop for a routine check. The driver tried to escape, but the police gave chase and stopped the car. The police found two pistols, two rifles, one pump-action gun and about a hundred bullets in the car. The police arrested Azhar Jameel, Muhammad Akram, Muhammad Ashraf and Zaheer Ahmad. The accused were from Sargodha and Kushab. They confessed that Jameel’s cousin Aziz Fatima escaped from her house to marry her sweetheart. “They said they planned to kill her at the Lahore High Court,” a police official said.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:29 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ahhhh the Religion of Honor and Peace....
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 13:16 Comments || Top||


2 SMP militants arrested
The Rangers arrested two alleged terrorists of the banned Sipah-e-Mohammed Pakistan (SMP) in Korangi in a pre-dawn raid on Monday. They were identified as Yawar Abbas and Hashim Balti. A Rangers spokesman said the alleged terrorists were involved in various cases of bomb explosion, murder, attempt to murder and sectarian violence. During initial interrogation, the suspects admitted to being involved in an attack on a SSP top leader, Abdul Rahman, who received bullet injuries. Besides, the Rangers claimed the suspects admitted to committing the murder of a Sunni Tehrik activist, Nasir, in a bomb blast near the offices of a Urdu newspaper in which three persons were killed. The suspects have also been charged with involvment in an explosion at a public meeting.
Other than that, they're clean...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:27 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


FIA suspends senior Quetta official for helping terror suspect
The Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) has suspended one of its senior officers for helping a top Karachi businessman who is wanted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) for alleged links to Al Qaeda. Karachi-based Saifullah Paracha managed to leave Pakistan for Dubai from Quetta airport despite being on the FIA’s Exit Control List.
Comes as a surprise, huh?
Sources said he was helped by an FIA shift in charge. They said he then went to Bangkok where he was arrested by the FBI.
Whoops. Inconvenient, that...
An official notification said, “The competent authority in the Interior Division has ordered that the Quetta FIA shift in charge be suspended immediately, an inquiry be initiated against him and a report thereof be submitted to this division urgently.”
"Bailiff! Whack his pee-pee!"
Mr Paracha’s son is already in FBI custody in the US. Both are under investigation for alleged links to Al Qaeda. Members of their family said an Al Qaeda activists had contacted them in Karachi several months ago and asked for help in getting clearance from immigration counters at the Quaid-e-Azam International Airport. They said Mr Paracha refused to help them. “Saifullah is a businessman and sympathises with the Jamaat-e-Islami.
Who else?
He was engaged in relief work in Karachi.
The old arms and ammunition for widows and orphans ploy...
He went to Afghanistan a number of times on business trips during the rule of the Taliban and initiated some projects there. But he had no links to Al Qaeda,” family members said.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
They said his son, known as Junior Paracha, was a fresh graduate from Boston University and had been arrested in the US four months ago.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:24 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq
U.S. Detains Westerners in Iraq
The United States is holding in Iraq six prisoners who claim to be Americans and two who say they are Britons, the general in charge of detention centers said Tuesday. Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade, said the eight were considered security detainees - those who attacked or helped carry out attacks against coalition troops - and were being interrogated by military intelligence.
Interrogate them vigorously, please.
Karpinski said they are being held at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, 12 miles west of Baghdad, one of the most potent symbols of Saddam Hussein’s regime.
Now under new managment.
She would not provide further details.
"I can say no more!"
It was the first time the U.S. military has acknowledged the detention of Westerners in connection with attacks on American troops in Iraq.
Been waiting for some of these "volunteers" to show up. Bet they turn out to be graduates of the best Pakistani religous schools. We want names, dammit.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 11:01:01 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm amused by the "Westerner" label; let's hold off on such labels until we find out whether the "Westerners" are named Mohammed Al-Jihadi, speak broken English, and are American In Citizenship Only...
Posted by: Carl in NH || 09/16/2003 11:48 Comments || Top||

#2  More details: US officials have admitted they are holding 10,000 prisoners in Iraq, double the number previously reported, including six claiming to be Americans and two who say they are British. "They didn't fit into any category," said Brigadier General Janis Karpinski of the 3,800 extra people who have now been classified as "security detainees."
"We got an order from the Secretary of Defence (Donald Rumsfeld) to categorise them" about a month ago, she said, but gave few details about who these detainees were. "We were securing them. We didn't want people to be confused" about their status, she said.
Asked if they had any rights or had access to their families or legal help while they were being "secured", she said: "It's not that they don't have rights ... they have fewer rights than EPWs (enemy prisoners of war)."
There were previously some 600 people classified as security detainees, so that category now numbers about 4,400, said General Karpinski.
There are 300 enemy prisoners of war, and about 5,300 criminals or suspected criminals in detention, making a rough total of 10,000, she added.
General Karpinski said that "several hundred third-country nationals" were among the prisoners held on security grounds since Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was overthrown in April by US and British forces. "Six are claiming to be Americans and two are claiming to be from the UK," she said.


Ten thousand bad guys, of various flavors, in the jug. Yup, sounds like quagmire, for them.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 15:38 Comments || Top||

#3  More: "We actually do have six who are claiming to be Americans, two who are claiming to be from the U.K. We're continuing the interviewing process. The details become sketchy and their story changes," Karpinski said, according to the AP.

What a suprise, well no, not really.

Asked about the detainees at a Pentagon news conference, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said: "The truth is that the folks that we've scooped up have, on a number of occasions, multiple identifications from different countries. They're quite skilled at confusing people as to what their real nationality is or where they came from or what they're doing."


Some of them don't even remember who they are anymore.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 16:14 Comments || Top||

#4  If you have 10,000 head of prisoners, you are going to need some good, heavy-duty equipment to process and sort them. This should fill the ticket.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 17:00 Comments || Top||

#5  Geld em at the end...don't need the riffraff in the gene pool and they won't be needing 'nads where they're going
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 17:11 Comments || Top||

#6  Wonder if some of the 'human shields' wer caught packing heat.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 17:24 Comments || Top||

#7  Cool link, Paul. I see that this is billed as "a revolutionary cattle handling system"----just the thing for handling revolutionary cattle.
Posted by: atomic conspiracy || 09/16/2003 18:24 Comments || Top||

#8  The world's seen photos of the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Bend over Janet --- your macho reign of terror is over... maybe you'll have a taste of your medicine in the future?
Posted by: Anonymous4703 || 05/02/2004 4:02 Comments || Top||

#9  Where the hell is the outrage when Western civilians are murdered and hacked to death? Screw'em!
Posted by: Anonymous4719 || 05/03/2004 13:21 Comments || Top||


U.S. to Offer Revised Iraq Draft at U.N.
Edited to just the new stuff.
UNITED NATIONS (AP) - The United States will likely circulate a revised U.N. resolution on Iraq by the end of the week after studying proposed amendments by France, Russia, Syria, Chile and other Security Council members, diplomats said Monday.

Foreign ministers of the five veto-wielding U.N. powers discussed Iraq in Geneva on Saturday for the first time since the divisive U.S.-led war. Their talks highlighted the gap between the United States and France, Russia and China on a timetable for restoring Iraq’s sovereignty. "We’re all regrouping," said U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte, who was in Geneva with Secretary of State Colin Powell. "I’m awaiting Secretary Powell’s return from his consultations in Baghdad, but I would expect that sometime during the course of this week this process of trying to move the resolution forward would once again resume."
Get it moving forward so that the French can veto it. Faster, please.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who hosted the Geneva talks, said the question of a timetable has become a key issue. France has called for a speedy transition to Iraqi rule: a provisional Iraqi government in place within a month, a draft constitution by the end of the year, and elections next spring. Russia and China also want a quick restoration of Iraq’s sovereignty, though perhaps not that fast. But the United States said the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council must be the guiding force in setting a timetable for drafting a constitution and elections. Powell stuck by this principle after the Geneva meeting.
Stuck to his guns. Good.
Diplomats said the Geneva talks made no headway in bridging the divide. "We need now to listen to the Americans about their plans," said Russia’s deputy U.N. ambassador Gennady Gatilov. "It seems that not much was achieved in Geneva." France echoed this assessment, council diplomats said on condition of anonymity.
Even better.
France’s ambassador to Washington Jean-David Levitte said Monday that Paris would like to add two points to the draft resolution. "First, a symbolic transfer of a sovereignty of Iraq in the hands of a UN appointed Frenchman the Governing Council of Iraq and then as expeditiously as possible the transfer of responsibilities in the hands of the ministers as soon as they are ready to do what we tell them to do adopt these responsibilities," Levitte said on PBS’"The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer."

Troops are not enough for security and "it is important to give the Iraqi people the message of empowerment," Levitte said.
"Not that we would have ever done that on our own, certainly not!"
Initially, the British, who hold the Security Council presidency this month, and some Americans talked of getting a new Iraq resolution approved before the General Assembly. But that seems almost impossible given the deep divisions.
Almost impossible? Hey, the new UN sig line!
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 12:35:48 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "The Almost Impossible We Don't Do - We Just Demand It Of Others!"
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 0:48 Comments || Top||

#2  Phrawnce can suck hind tit and learn to like it.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/16/2003 5:32 Comments || Top||

#3  Why is the UN even being bothered with? It couldn't be counted on at the start, and it can't be counted on now. Screw the UN and let it die already.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 22:51 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Indonesian Police Arrest 13 More Alleged Terrorists
Indonesian police say they have arrested 13 more people suspected of involvement in a wave of bombings across the country. A police spokesmen says the arrests were made with information obtained from suspects allegedly involved in last month’s car bombing at the J-W Marriott hotel in Jakarta.
Indonesian truncheons at work.
The spokesman says investigators are still compiling charges against the 13. They are accused of planning a series of new terror attacks, details of which are not available.
"We’ll let you know as soon as they stop screaming, er, confessing."
On the resort island of Bali Tuesday, an appeals court upheld the death sentence of Amrozi, the first person sentenced to a firing squad for his role in last year’s nightclub bombings in which 202 people died. Known as the laughing bomber, he has said he is proud of his role in the attack, and that he welcomes death as a martyr.
You’re welcome.
Amrozi’s lawyers plan to file an appeal with Indonesia’s Supreme Court.
Guess he doesn’t welcome death that much.
Another defendant, Imam Samudra, also has been sentenced to death. He was convicted of masterminding the attack.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 10:20:53 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sure does appeal a lot for someone welcoming death. Why don't they slip him a razor and let him "prove it, laughing boy"
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 10:31 Comments || Top||


Philippines to put questions to Hambali
THE US government has granted the Philippines access to Riduan Islamuddin, also known as Hambali, said to be the closest link of the international terrorist al-Qaeda network in Southeast Asia. Foreign Affairs Secretary Blas Ople said he received a letter dated September 12 from US Secretary of State Colin Powell indicating Washington’s approval of a request for access to the international terrorist. However, unlike Indonesia which will send top-caliber investigators to the United States to question Hambali, the Philippines will just send a set of questions to Washington. “I understand that because Hambali’s interrogation is ongoing and because of the need to conduct his interrogation in a carefully controlled environment, direct access to Hambali at this time is not possible,” he said.
Gotta keep the dosage just right, between voluble and incoherent...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:16 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Listen to secret tapes of the interrogation:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/sjackson.html
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 1:49 Comments || Top||


Elite NPA assassins target George Bush?
THE communist New Peoples Army has deployed at least 50 of its “elite, highly trained” troops in Metro Manila to carry out an assassination assignment on US President George W. Bush, who is scheduled to visit the country on October 18, military sources said. Requesting anonymity, the source said the deployment began as early as August “to establish an intelligence network” that would relay information and details to the NPA chain of command about Bush’s eight-hour visit. “Their first assignment is to link up with front organizations [of the NPA] and, from there, share intelligence information so that an effective assassination plan would be established,” the source said, declining to identify the front organizations. The guerrillas tasked to carry out the assassination, the source said, are all marksmen who have undergone extensive training in Southern Luzon for that purpose. Individuals supportive of the NPA cause in Metro Manila will provide refuge to the assassins during their stay before October 18, the source added without elaborating.
I didn't know the NPA did contract work. Good thing to keep in mind...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:12 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  A couple of points, not the least of which is that MILF has a tactical alliance of sorts with the Viet Cong wannabes of the NPA. MILF seems to be fairly key to al-Qaeda's infrastructure in Southeast Asia (particularly the training camps in Mindanao) and I'm honestly not sure who's running the show there ever since Salamat bought the farm. MILF also buys weapons from North Korea, though I'm not sure if there's a North Korean connection to the NPA. If there is, the rumors of recent massings of Chinese troops along the North Korean border could be part of something much larger.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 09/16/2003 0:58 Comments || Top||

#2  So they take a shot at him, miss, and American support for the Pres rises... how long before the Dem moonbats start putting out conspiracy theorys that Karl Rove was behind the NPA hit attempt? a day?
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 9:41 Comments || Top||

#3  From Manila Times, March 2002:

Other sources said Beijing and Pyongyang have been bankrolling the leftist New People’s Army and Moro Islamic Liberation Front since the late 1980s in hopes of destabilizing the government here and undermining the American influence that “keeps the Philippines above the debacle line.” The NPA has reportedly formed a temporary alliance with the MILF as a safeguard against the growing US military presence in the Southern Philippines after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 last year.
Posted by: Fred || 09/16/2003 10:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Assuming they were somehow successful.. it might be the worst thing the Milf and the NPA ever did for their own cause because you can be certain Cheney wouldn't just let it go, and you can be certain that Beijin and Pyongyang would distances themselves as quick as humanly possible.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 11:34 Comments || Top||

#5  "Hope you didn't need anything on those southern archipelago islands, 'cause we just napalmed 'em all."
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 12:33 Comments || Top||

#6  Bubhahahaha - can you picture what Dick would do if somebody murdered GWB? Man, the streets of the world would run red with blood. It's too horrible even for me to contemplate!
Posted by: Secret Master || 09/16/2003 12:33 Comments || Top||

#7  Remember that the Chinese claim the Philippines in some of their histories. Anything bordering the South China Sea is fair game for the Middle Kingdom.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/16/2003 12:36 Comments || Top||

#8  If the Chinese are unwilling to go toe-to-toe over Taiwan at this point the Phillipines are simply out of their practical ability. They could supply rhettoric, and small arms, but they'd pay a price for that if an American President was shot at so they'd cut off the rebels cold turkey.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 13:41 Comments || Top||

#9  If GWB is assasinated, the Democrats will cry like children. Then when the election comes up, they'll slander Bush so badly he'll come back to life and beat them with the Patriot Act. Of course, that's after nuking some 'selected' Islands.
Posted by: Charles || 09/16/2003 21:30 Comments || Top||


Middle East
U.S. Veto of U.N. Arafat Plea Alarms Palestinians
"Oh, hold me, Fatimah! I'm so alarmed!"
Palestinians voiced fears that the U.S. veto of a U.N. resolution demanding that Israel not harm or expel Yasser Arafat could be seen by Israeli leaders as a license to kill him. The Security Council vote on Tuesday followed Israel's dismissal of a cease-fire call by the Palestinian president's national security adviser, Jibril Rajoub.
"Piss off, Jibril. Been there, done that, got the dead guys to prove it..."
Israel said that instead of pursuing a truce, Arafat's Palestinian Authority should hunt down militants as mandated by a U.S.-backed peace plan known as the road map.
"But... What's peace in the Middle East got to do with us Paleos? It's up to them Jews and the Merkins to make it happen!"
"It's a black day for the United Nations and for international law," chief Palestinian peace negotiator Saeb Erekat told Reuters after the vote. "I hope that Israel will not interpret the resolution as a license to kill President Arafat."
"... or any of his spokesmen..."
After back-to-back suicide bombings killed 15 Israelis last week, Israel touched off an international outcry by announcing a decision "to remove" Arafat, without saying how or when.
Notice that booming a busload of innocents didn't set off an international outcry? Not that it was a great success for the Paleos. The best they could get this time was stunned silence from the intergnats.
In vetoing the resolution, which demanded Israel "desist from any act of deportation and cease any threat" to Arafat's safety, the United States said the text failed to name Palestinian groups blamed for suicide attacks.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 21:26 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1 
"I hope that Israel will not interpret the resolution as a license to kill President Arafat."
I hope they do. They should have gotten a hunting license on that slimebag years ago.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 09/16/2003 21:57 Comments || Top||

#2  I'm posting a personal bounty on Saeb Ereekat (how many times has he resigned and be reinstated as "Chief Negotiator"/ "Arafat ass licker"?) - I have a personal stash of Tequila (Cazadores and Tres Generaciones), I'm willing to share for Saeb shutting the f*&^ up - amount negotiable, limes/salt available
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 22:23 Comments || Top||

#3  "It's a black day for the United Nations and for international law," chief Palestinian peace negotiator Saeb Erekat told Reuters after the vote. "I hope that Israel will not interpret the resolution as a license to kill President Arafat."

Erekat himself should be concerned with his own fate. Whatever happens to Arafat should happen to Erekat as well.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 22:45 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm not familiar with the word "intergnats", as in:
"The best they could get this time was stunned silence from the intergnats." Could someone please enlighten me?
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 09/16/2003 22:49 Comments || Top||

#5  I'm out of Kleenex...but, in deference to the mom's and babies blown up by lost causes... I'm sure it won't be a problem for me should the death cart make an early arrival for Mr. Arafat.

Hmm...on to more important things like, what's for dinner? or...should I wear the pink shirt or the blue one? Oh...and FG...I've been AWOL too long to know who Seab is...but should he ST*U...count me in!
Posted by: Becky || 09/16/2003 22:54 Comments || Top||

#6  Will this cut back on his "Fearless Leader stands in the window and waves victory signs" show? It'd be worth it if it just did that.
Do the right thing, Yasshole. Croak in your sleep. Your boys will blame it on the IDF "death rays" but you'll still be dead. And we'll all get over it.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 23:16 Comments || Top||


Africa: West
U.N. Offices in Congo Are Attacked
Unidentified attackers fired on United Nations offices in the northeastern Congolese town of Bunia on Tuesday, a day after U.N. troops detained army and security chiefs of a tribal militia. Leocadio Salmeron, a spokesman for the U.N. mission in Congo, said U.N. troops fired into the air to disperse a crowd of demonstrators outside the office and no one was hurt. But Etienne Membe Ngona, the deputy security chief for the Union of Congolese Patriots, or UPC, said one person was killed and three others wounded by the U.N. troops.
"Well, yeah. I guess they were pretty tall..."
The assailants were hiding among the demonstrators protesting the detention of Floribert Kisembo, UPC chief of staff, and Rafiki Saba, the security chief of the same main Hema tribal faction, Salmeron said by telephone from Bunia.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 20:54 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What goes up must come down.Doesn't gravity suck?
Posted by: Stephen || 09/16/2003 21:18 Comments || Top||

#2  What's with the gunfire. Can't the rebels afford RPG's in the Congo. Pretty 2nd rate insurgency.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 21:30 Comments || Top||

#3  They shot into the air? How high in the air? Hope they didn't hit any birds...
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 22:26 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Hamas Denounces Jordan Bank Account Lockdown
Hat tip to LGF
The Palestinian militant organization Hamas on Tuesday denounced a Jordanian decision to freeze the bank accounts of six of its leaders and five charity organizations, saying the government was giving in to "American dictates."
Bwahahahahha
Jordan froze the accounts on Monday, days after the European Union blacklisted Hamas as a terrorist group, also freezing its funds.
Bummer when you have to go to an ATM for funds and an IAF chopper floats into view behind you, huh?
"The Islamic resistance movement Hamas expresses its great resentment and condemnation of this dangerous measure taken by the Jordanian government," said a statement faxed to The Associated Press. It said the group "condemns the fact that Jordan has become the first Arab and Muslim country to take such a step that has no justification other than implementing American dictates." Jordan Information Minister Nabil-Al-Sharif said Tuesday that the issue had no "political dimensions"
none whatsoever
and that the decision was made "for banking purposes only,"
there was a question about your PIN number... according to the official Petra news agency. He did not elaborate.
"I can say no more™"
But later Tuesday, the Central Bank said it had retracted its decision to freeze the accounts of "some Hamas members and other organizations," according to Petra. The statement did not say how many individuals or what organizations were affected.
Feel free to access those accounts, boyz...heh heh
The United States has long condemned Hamas, which is responsible for scores of suicide bombings in Israel, as a terrorist organization. The Hamas statement said the five charity organizations included in Jordan’s decision offered support to Palestinian orphans, widows, martyrs’ families and prisoners.
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 6:56:12 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The Hamas statement said the five charity organizations included in Jordan’s decision offered support to Palestinian orphans, widows, martyrs’ families and prisoners.

No mention was made of puppies or baby ducks. Regardless, it is good news that some funds are being frozen. It is coming from Jordan, of all countries. So they are starting to get the message. I would sure like to know what countries are cooperating with the freezing of funds and what countries are not. What about Switzerland, land of the high moral fiber bank account? Heh heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 19:14 Comments || Top||

#2  LONG LIVE KING ABDULLAH! Nothing pisses a terrorists off more than not having any funds for bombs/bullets. Maybe this will make them accept peace? Also note that Iran’s Mullahs have cut off funding for some strange reason? Gee HAMAS what will your organization do for operating funds? Oh that’s right, the UN still likes you. Go ask Kofi for a loan, I am sure you are good for it!
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/16/2003 19:17 Comments || Top||

#3  Well, which one is it? Have they been frozen or not? Typical M.E. duplicity....talking out of both sides of their mouths until their lips fall off. I'm gonna wait and see what the real word on this is. Don't forget about all those crates of Jordanian ammo we found in Baghdad dated 2001....I just don't trust em.
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 09/16/2003 20:20 Comments || Top||

#4  "... orphans, widows, martyrs’ families and prisoners." After, to be sure, we have paid for the bombs, so it may only be a penny each - but it's the thought that counts! Doesn't even the US Hallmark company say so?
Posted by: John Anderson || 09/16/2003 21:52 Comments || Top||

#5  I'm kind of wondering now when some sort of terrorist event will occur in Jordan. Could be sometime soon, if they stick to their usual script.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 22:48 Comments || Top||

#6  B-A-R
That is all those terrorists know is how to boom. Every time they do it to one of a country that harbors sympathy for them, like Saudi Arabia, they are making another nail for their coffins. They can keep it up. I like the posting that talks about 10,000 prisoners in Iraq. The jihadis are like the WW2 Kamikaze. They waxed and waned and fizzled out. If we keep popping the leaders, then there will be no more boomers. This includes the Mad Mullahs. They're fair game, too.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 23:13 Comments || Top||

#7  AP: The Mad Mullahs should be Number One on the Hit Parade. With a bullet.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 23:23 Comments || Top||


Caribbean
Gitmo Reward Plan Lets Prisoners Earn Perks
Military officials at the US Naval Base in Cuba have introduced a reward program that lets Afghanistan war prisoners earn perks and more comfortable quarters by dishing out intelligence and following camp rules. Behave and they get checkerboards, decks of cards or the right to choose a book from a carefully screened library cart. Throw water on a guard or ignore orders to leave the exercise yard on schedule and prisoners forfeit a game or book. Establish a consistent record of good behavior and a select few prisoners - up to 40 - can move from the isolation of the single-celled maximum-security units into medium-security units where they live, read and pray in groups.
Sure sounds like a death camp to me.
“What this has done is dramatically increase our cooperation,” said Brig. Gen. Jim Payne, deputy commander for the prison operation. During a recent visit to the base, military officials led reporters on a limited tour inside Camp Delta, where the 660 suspected Al-Qaeda and Taleban prisoners are held. Reporters were not allowed to speak to prisoners, seen only in shadow through small screened windows, but toured empty cellblocks. Prisoners in the maximum-security blocks live alone in small metal-mesh cells with shelf-style beds, floor toilets and low basins for washing. They get the basic package of “comfort items” - a thin mattress, blanket, sheet, gray foam prayer mat, towel, washcloth, prayer cap, prayer beads, toiletries, orange uniforms, rubber flip-flop shoes and a copy of the Holy Qu’ran. Meals are delivered in foam containers by guards wearing rubber gloves. Prisoners are shackled at the hands and legs when they are taken two at a time to the showers or to the exercise yard for 30-minute recreation periods twice a week.
Just your basic US maximum security prison
Every 30 days, camp officials review detailed computerized records on each prisoner and decide who has earned a spot in the medium-security blocks completed in March.
Making a list, checking it twice, gonna find out who’s naughty or nice...
Detainees there live in four dormitory-style rooms with 10 beds.
They get white uniforms, thicker mattresses and dine together at an outdoor picnic table under a concrete shade. Exercise increases to an hour a day, in groups big enough for team sports like soccer and volleyball. They get red Oriental rugs for prayer mats, an extra pair of canvas shoes, and more puzzles, books and games.
Club Med.
“We never take away the Qu’ran. We never take away anything that would be a health item -— blankets or food,” Payne said.
The reward system also recognizes cooperation during interrogations. Camp officials won’t discuss specifics.
"I can say no more"
But they said that although some prisoners have been at Guantanamo for 20 months and have no current information about pending attacks, they provide information about terrorist organizations, financing and recruiting.
“Tactical intelligence decays very rapidly but operational and strategic intelligence is viable, valid and enormously useful,” Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who commands the prisoner operation, told Reuters. “We knit together golden threads as we come to be able to understand what terrorism is all about.”
Someday we might find out what they’re learning.
The ultimate reward is release from Guantanamo and 68 prisoners have been returned to their home countries since the prison operation began in January 2002. To earn that, prisoners must convince military officials that they have no more useful information to give and that they are not a threat to the United States. Miller recommends which prisoners should be released, recognizing those who “understand the consequences of their actions, this unspeakable action that they have taken.”
“Many of them were duped into terrorism or sometimes kidnapped into being, supporting terrorism. So when taken out of these despicable people then they are cooperative.”
I’m sure that a little bird whispers in their ears just before release, "Don’t get caught a second time".
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 3:18:37 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Always figured Gitmo is actually a CIA recruitment centre.

things feel much better when I put on my foil hat.
Posted by: john || 09/16/2003 15:34 Comments || Top||

#2  John, you did remember to run a wire from the tin foil to the thumbtack in the heel of your shoe, didn't you? Got to give those energy waves a path to ground.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 15:41 Comments || Top||

#3  Cards?

Teaching them Texas Poker?

Gambling???

Twinkies, cupcakes and happy meals.

Some will have stories to regale(?) their grandchildren with.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 15:52 Comments || Top||

#4  John, Steve: everyone knows you have to run the wire internally as much as possible too. Go for the gusto big guy
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 16:54 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Memorial Flag Desecrated
Another memorial desecration.
FRISCO, Colo. - An American flag placed atop a mountain peak in a national forest as a memorial to the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks was torched, authorities said.
Probably in protest to Bush’s logical actions.
Summit County deputies were investigating a report that a hiker found a note on the 13,589-foot snowcapped summit claiming responsibility for the fire, sheriff’s spokeswoman Jill Berman said Monday.
"You evil amerikkkans! Yes, I burned that fucking symbol of all that is evil!" They got no father but there were bloodstains and disembodied lips.
The burned flag was found Sunday.
The FBI was notified because the flag was in the White River National Forest, Berman said.
The flag had been placed on the peak on Thursday, the second anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, replacing a tattered flag that had been there since the first anniversary.
The U.S. Forest Service at first rejected requests to replace the flag on the second anniversary, saying it would be a permanent structure forbidden by Forest Service rules.
After angry residents considered protest petition, the Forest Service relented.
Frisco is 60 miles west of Denver.
Was it someone who rejoiced on 9/11 or an IPHSM moonbat?
Posted by: Katz || 09/16/2003 1:37:34 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  In a National Forest on top of a 13,589 ft. mountain? After 4 days?

Gee, let's see, who would have
a) knowledge that the flag was there (I didn't)
b) free access to the area
c) the stamina to climb up there

Oh, Mr. Ranger...
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 14:32 Comments || Top||

#2  Don't jump to conclusions, Mojo. There's a whole truck-load of loonies just a few miles further down the road in three directions.

Dillon, a hangout for the near-rich and almost-famous, is just a few miles to the east.

Vail, home of lots of REAL rich and famous, is just 20 miles to the west.

Breckenridge, where a lot of rich and famous folks go to party, is just a dozen or so miles to the south.

There have been many cases of vandalism, including one serious fire that the ELF/ALF terror mob took credit for, in taht part of the country. While Ranger Bob may have been aware, or perhaps even peripherally involved, there are a lot of other twits that we need to keep an eye on, as well.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/16/2003 16:38 Comments || Top||

#3  That's a whole lot of hiking for a desecration. Wouldn't have thought an antiwar dude would have had it in him/her. Little chance of publicity and all.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 17:19 Comments || Top||

#4  Aw, hell, OP - jumpin' to conclusions is about the only exercise I get anymore... ;>

Didn't know about the pop. distribution, but I'd tend to rule out the Richie Rich types. If there was a lift to the top, now....
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 17:25 Comments || Top||

#5  I actually live in Vail and the rich around here are typically pro-Bush, pro-troops. There is, however, a large group of granola eating lefties living in the Breckenridge-Keystone area that are quite capable of this. For alot of us that live up here a 13,589 ft. moutain is just a day hike, so access isn't really an issue. I will say that if I ever here somebody bragging about this, they'll be picking their teeth off the ground.
Posted by: Ryan || 09/16/2003 18:11 Comments || Top||

#6  I am completely opposed to the so-called flag-burning amendment. Nevertheless, lefties do not have a monopoly on free expression, their many assertions to the contrary notwithstanding.
The proper response to this is simple, start destroying lefty icons:

Che, Mumia, Arafat, and IHOP ISM/Rachel posters
Junked VW buses
"recreated" Woodstock memorabilia
Vietcong, PA, and Greenpeace flags
birkenstocks
financial aid applications
banner-size copies of trust-fund certificates
Burqas, khaffiyas, black masks and t-shirts; and other symbols of dhimmi collaborationism.
trash-cans full of condom packages, Kit-kat wrappers, and discarded Evian bottles
Effigies of Hillary, Chomsky, Zinn, and Peter Jennings

If flag-burning is legal, so is this. (just make sure that the trash actually belongs to you).

It is equivalent, and it would very nicely expose the totalitarian left's intolerance and hypocrisy if it became commonplace, since they would undoubtedly respond with rioting and vandalism by their blackshirt enforcers and sanctimonious squeals from their fifth column media.

Example: Counter-demonstrators could conceal Mumia posters beneath their "support our troops" signs or whatever. When the flag-burners light up, the cover signs fall off and Mumia's mugshot gets the torch as well. Having several dozen people do this at once might be quite effective, especially if they chanted "Fry Mumia" at the same time.


Posted by: atomic conspiracy || 09/16/2003 18:19 Comments || Top||

#7  but... wouldn't you.. err... hurt their feelings?
Posted by: True German Ally || 09/16/2003 19:13 Comments || Top||

#8  Gawd I hope soooo
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 19:30 Comments || Top||

#9  Atomic Conspiracy: I like your style!
Posted by: Rex Mundi || 09/16/2003 20:26 Comments || Top||

#10  Actually,
I wouldn't destroy the lefty icons because that would make the shit that was left more valuable.

Parody is the way to go. Despair.inc has a site that may forever ruin motivational posters - something I abhor.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 22:07 Comments || Top||


SORTIE
NORFOLK, Va. — About 40 Navy ships (search) and submarines (search) began leaving bases in Virginia and New Jersey on Tuesday to avoid potential damage from Hurricane Isabel.
The ships will head out to sea to get north of the storm and then move east to maneuver around the hurricane, said Adm. Robert J. Natter, commander of the Norfolk-based Atlantic Fleet.
Forecasters said Isabel, with maximum sustained winds of 115 mph, appeared to be on a course to hit Thursday on the North Carolina coast and move up through eastern Virginia.
Natter said moving the ships will cost "in the millions" but the expense would be far greater if the ships were damaged by being battered against the piers.
"We’ve got to be prudent," Natter told reporters on a pier at Norfolk Naval Station. "We cannot afford to have these very expensive, valuable national assets caught in port in a storm like this."
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 09/16/2003 12:57:48 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  It's great when you get to leave your family in the path of the storm as well. Always rented in Norfolk for that reason. My family bailed.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 17:20 Comments || Top||


Middle East
U.N. Sets Vote on Plea to Shield Arafat; Veto Looms
EFL: more UN love of a terrorist, posted mostly because of France. Aris, Murat why in Heavens name do you want to be allied with these lovers of those deliberately target and murder women and babies.
...But in Paris Tuesday, France, which also has veto power on the Security Council and opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq, signaled it would support the resolution on Arafat. French Foreign Minister spokesman Herve Ladsous said. "The draft resolution does not pose a problem for us. It suits us...
Posted by: raptor || 09/16/2003 11:20:00 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  That's fine, Monsieur Ladsous. We've tasted your Security Council veto before; now you can taste ours.
Posted by: Dar || 09/16/2003 12:37 Comments || Top||

#2  JPost: The United States said Tuesday it is not satisfied with a revised draft resolution demanding that the United Nations ensure the safety of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, making a quick vote unlikely.

Syria had intended to push for a vote after a daylong open meeting on the Middle East Monday, but was persuaded by other council members to amend it and delay the vote for a day.

But US deputy ambassador James Cunningham told reporters Tuesday after seeing the new text that more consultations were needed.

"I don't think the revised text is any different from the previous text. Draw your own conclusions," he said. "I'm not sure it's going to come to a vote - or when it's going to come to a vote."

The resolution, drafted by Palestinian representative Nasser al-Kidwa, and sponsored by Syria, demands "that Israel, the occupying power, desist from any act of deportation and cease any threat to the safety of the elected president of the Palestinian Authority."

On Monday, diplomats from more than 40 countries took to the floor to condemn Israel's decision to remove Arafat. However, US Ambassador John Negroponte said Washington would veto the resolution in its present form because it does not condemn Palestinian terrorism and was "heavily biased" against Israel.


Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 13:46 Comments || Top||

#3  Shield him from what? IDF death rays? Deodorant? Showers?
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 15:28 Comments || Top||

#4  tu? LOL
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 19:35 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon
NYT: US Official To Level Charges Against Syria
A New York Times report says a senior U.S. official is to level charges against Syria during testimony to a House of Representatives hearing Tuesday. The newspaper says John Bolton, Under Secretary of State for Arms Control, will say that the Bush administration is concerned about Syria’s continuing support for terrorist groups like Hamas.
Bolton again!...I like him more and more as the next Sec’ty of State...he manages to piss off all the right people and for all the right reasons
He also is expected to repeat accusations that Syria has an ambitious program to develop chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Mr. Bolton is testifying in front of the International Relations Subcommittee on the Middle East and Asia. Syria denies that it has unconventional weapons.
Lies! All lies!
The U.S. Congress is debating a bill that would require economic sanctions to be imposed against Syria unless it ends its reported weapons activities, its support for terrorism and its presence in Lebanon.
starting with that oil pipeline
On Monday, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell accused Syria of not doing enough to end what he termed its support of "terrorist activity," including cross-border infiltration of militants into Iraq. Tensions between Washington and Damascus have flared in recent months, with President Bush accusing Syria of harboring Iraqi officials who fled when Saddam Hussein’s regime collapsed. Syria has denied the allegations.
Some information for this report provided by AFP and Reuters.
handle with care - wear gloves
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 10:49:31 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "All those people driving around Latakia in limos with bodyguards are TOURISTS! I swear!"
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 10:57 Comments || Top||

#2  Since no WMD have been found in Iraq making the claim in Syria will not go over well with a lot of people. There is the chance that Iraqi's WMD are in Syria, or the Bakaa valley according to Debka so this could be a double-or-nothing make-or-break issue.

The Bush team better be 100% certain they will turn something up this time or the 2004 elections will not be much fun.
Posted by: Yank || 09/16/2003 11:33 Comments || Top||

#3  Conventional wisdom says that the US doesn't have the will to do anything about Syria, Iran or NK, currently.

Where are the Seals at? Haven't heard from them in a while. Wonder if that makes the unfriendlies nervous.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 17:31 Comments || Top||

#4  Saw some back here at Coronado...they were reloading
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 19:44 Comments || Top||

#5  If the Seals are ready, They will be looking for Hhigh value units to neutralize.

What is in the Bekaa? It's just a ravine full of bad guys, right. It's not a refuge camp, is it?
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 22:16 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Rantburg prepares for Isabel - women & minorities to be hardest hit
Batten down the hatches Fred! Check out
the CNN link for a cool pic from the Space Station

(CNN) -- Hurricane Isabel could be one of the more powerful storms to hit the middle Atlantic coast in decades, according to forecasters, who said they may issue a hurricane watch for the region Tuesday.

"Interests from the Carolinas northward to southern New England . . . along the coast and inland . . . should closely monitor the progress of Isabel," the National Hurricance Center said.

A hurricane watch is issued for specific coastal areas that face a possible threat from a hurricane, generally within 36 hours.

Ed Rappaport, deputy director of the NHC, said Isabel "will be one of the strongest storms seen in the landfall area in the last several decades."

The approach of Isabel prompted Congress to consider leaving Washington early, spurred the U.S. military to move some of its ships and aircraft and had residents from North Carolina to Maryland closely monitoring the latest weather reports.

"If Isabel stays close to our forecast track and if it does make landfall as a major hurricane, it has the potential for large loss of life if we don’t take it seriously and prepare," Max Mayfield, director of the hurricance center, told CNN.

At 5 a.m. EDT, Isabel was about 660 miles (1,065 kilometers) south-southeast of Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. The storm was moving northwest at 7 mph (11 km/h), a motion that was expected to continue over the next 24 hours.

The three-day forecast track shows Isabel’s center striking North Carolina’s Pamlico Sound -- about 45 miles north of Morehead City and 120 miles east of Raleigh -- at 2 p.m. EDT Thursday, then turning north, slightly inland of Chesapeake Bay.

Satellite imagery and reports from a hurricane hunter plane showed the storm had become less organized early Tuesday.

Isabel’s maximum sustained winds have decreased to near 115 mph (185 km/h), with higher gusts, making it a solid Category 3 storm. That was slightly weaker than the system had been over the weekend, but Mayfield warned that the storm was still "very dangerous."

Stay dry Fred and stock up on plywood
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 10:42:05 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  LOL @ Frank. The best common sense hurricane advice available? Fill up your gas tank! No power = no pumpage.
Posted by: seafarious || 09/16/2003 10:56 Comments || Top||

#2  OMG Seafarious, you're right...living in San Diego, the worst weather we have to endure is the June fog/cloud cover. Are the Rantburg servers on backup generator, Fred? lol. Actually I noted the plywood as I heard that people are already stripping the canned goods, diapers, ply, plastic sheeting, etc. off the shelves
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 11:08 Comments || Top||

#3  "The best common sense hurricane advice available? Fill up your gas tank!"
And head inland to high ground. It's not the wind that kills you, it's the water.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 11:15 Comments || Top||

#4  Been there, done that, and have the scars to prove it. Hurricane Audrey in 1957 was the worst I've ever experienced, but only one of a half-dozen hurricanes/typhoons I've had the misfortune to find myself in the middle of. Fred, if you need help getting the windows covered, give me a call. I'll try to round up some of my spook buddies from Fort Meade and the Naval Yard. Keep low, stay dry (if possible), and I hope your house is at least 20 feet above the high tide boundary!
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/16/2003 11:26 Comments || Top||

#5  Why don't all of the houses in the hurricane areas have shutters that can be sealed when storms come? You know, something that would do the same as ply-wood hammered over your windows that didn't require you to run down to the store every year or so?
Posted by: Yank || 09/16/2003 11:27 Comments || Top||

#6  Yank, in order to build a shutter stout enough to hold against a hurricane's full force, you'd need industrial-strength hinges, full-mitered, metal-reinforced joints, and the ability to lock the sutters completely flat - from the inside. You can't build shutters like that. In the end, it's cheaper to buy 1/2-inch or 3/4-inch plywood, nail it across the windows, and pray. Even that isn't a guarantee - the damage to our house from Hurricane Audrey in 1957 was due to a large oak tree shedding a 12-inch thick limb that ended up imbedded in my parent's bedroom ceiling, from outside.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/16/2003 13:08 Comments || Top||

#7  Wind stagnation pressures:

100 mph: 25 lb/sq ft
110 mph: 31 lb/sq ft
120 mph: 37 lb/sq ft
130 mph: 43 lb/sq ft

A 4'x6' picture window would have 900 lb of force on it from a steady 120 mph wind. On the roofs you have an uplift force, because the roof acts the same as a wing during a wind. OP is right. Often it is the wind blown debris, acting like a missile that does the real damage.

We get strong winds in Alaska, but rarely like the hurricane. We have to deal with earthquakes, and the ash from the occasional but periodic volcano. Keep a survival kit in one's car (or plane) at all times. You never know when you will need it.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 13:40 Comments || Top||

#8  Thanks for the detail Old Patriot. How would bullet proof glass hold up? You never hear of problems with high rises. Is it a matter of their being tougher, or the media not reporting it?
Posted by: Yank || 09/16/2003 13:41 Comments || Top||

#9  The server is in downtown Baltimore, and I live on the edge of the city. I've got the backup server in my basement (well off the floor), and I'll sync them periodically on Wednesday and Thursday, just in case one is damaged. If they're both damaged, we're out of luck...

Home Depot is sold out of plywood and generators, with emergency shipments on the way. My wife was talking about using T111, the idea being for me to get up on the ladder and cover the second-floor windows. I began talking about filing a homeowner's claim...
Posted by: Fred || 09/16/2003 14:49 Comments || Top||

#10  Good luck, Fred. I'll be thinking about you. Hope she weakens some before she gets up there.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 15:09 Comments || Top||

#11  Chainsaws, young men, chainsaws! (and gas)

The biggest problems after Hugo hit Charleston, SC were all the downed pine trees on all the roads and houses and cars. Anyone with a chain saw made money.

Ah, the glorious traffic anarchy with a full week free of the tyranny of traffic lights. Fortune truly favored the brave.
Posted by: jfd || 09/16/2003 15:21 Comments || Top||

#12  Bathtubs, young ladies, bathtubs! (and water).

Fill your bathtub with water. If city water is out for a long time, you can use the water to fill your toilet. A week without flushing is not pretty.
Posted by: jfd || 09/16/2003 15:46 Comments || Top||

#13  Another BIG problem for those in the hurricane belt are people cutting down vegetation in the days leading up to a hurricane in an attempt to prevent damage. A pile of debris left uncollected at the curb is churned up like a Waring blender, which is why you need to have your tree maintenance completed before the big event. Also, in the days after a major hit, you will not get your regular contracted landscapers and other service personnel, and your regular tradesmen to show up for a month, as there is too much money to be made bailing out homeowners and business owners with more serious problems.
Tidal surge can extend a mile or more past the shore line, bays and rivers included. Of course, after the damage, the insurance coverage will cover the cost of building even more opulent castles near the coastline, insuring that the next big hit will be even more expensive.
Sorry to be such a downer here, I have been exposed to some truly depressing studies on the coastline phenomena.
To those readers who may be personally affected, may G_d protect you and your loved ones.
Posted by: Capsu78 || 09/16/2003 15:53 Comments || Top||

#14  Hey, another tip from a Florida women who has lived through some 20 "watches". Get all of your families laundry done TODAY, because if your area does get hit hard, and assuming your house is still standing, it may be a week or more without power. You will have plenty of other projects to work on than recreating how your grandparents got clean cloths in the 30's. The "man of the house" can't be counted on to help out either as all the other guys in the neighborhood will be out reving their chainsaws, and he can't get spotted carrying a laundry basket down to the broken water main.
Posted by: Capsu78 || 09/16/2003 16:01 Comments || Top||

#15  Some other good tips: If you have a freezer, better have a barbecue and plenty of charcoal, cause if the power goes out, that's how you're going to be cooking those steaks you stashed away in there. Without power, freezers and refrigerators will keep things reasonably cold for about three days, if you don't open the door too often. Water is IMPORTANT: go to Sam's Club or somewhere and buy two or three cases of the stuff. Pumps don't work if the power goes, and most city water departments use electric pumps to fill local cisterns. Keep a batter-powered radio and several spare batteries in a safe place - inside, away from walls and windows, preferably in a hallway or inside closet. Flashlights are essential, too, if the power goes. Candles are nice, but if you're not careful with them, you could have the rare phenomenon of a house burning down in the middle of torrential rainfall. Start your car engine two or three times a week, even if you can't go anywhere. It keeps the battery from draining down, and provides an alternative radio. Tornados are one of the most devastating side risks from hurricanes. I understand that Andrew actually spawned over 100 tornados before it died.

More stuff HERE.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/16/2003 16:51 Comments || Top||

#16  Don't forget trash cans, recycle bins, bird feeders, & anything else not tied down. I live in Richmond - the present NOAA projected track looks like the eye will head right through here. My neighbor with a garage is letting me put my propane grill, trash can, etc., in his garage tonight to ride out the storm. (If you can't get your propane grill inside, disconnect and bring in the propane cannister and tie down the grill.)

I've got batteries, water, food, & a propane camp stove & lamp. Tonight I'm filling garbage bag-lined dishpans with water and putting them on the top shelf of the deep freeze (after a little rearranging) - cold falls, so that should help keep the food frozen, or nearly so, at least an extra day if I don't open the door.

Our power was out for days after Hurricane Floyd & I lost all the food in both my refrigerator & freezer. That was a pain the pazoo, but the insurance covered it and the house wasn't damaged. Others weren't so lucky.

Our volunteer rescue squad has put out a call for extra crews. I'll probably go if my work closes down (which it usually doesn't). I'm concerned about the wind, but more concerned about the rain. The ground is already saturated - trees are coming down. Even it the winds are down to 90 or 80 mph when it gets here, that's enough to cause major trouble.

Rantburgers who live in the path - be prepared and good luck. If you live on the coast, get out.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 09/16/2003 17:19 Comments || Top||

#17  Fred, if you do go with the T111, which is 3/8" at it's thinnest - turn the rough edge out!
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 19:45 Comments || Top||


Kerry Campaign Communications Director Lehane Resigns
EFL, the panic begins
WASHINGTON — John Kerry’s (the haughty, French-looking aristocrat, who by the way served in Viet Nam) communications director has resigned over differences in the direction of the Democrat’s presidential campaign.
as in downward?
Chris Lehane’s departure comes amid speculation of a wider shake-up in the Kerry campaign, which has been torn by internal fights and a lack of public support from the candidate.

Kerry, a Massachusetts senator once considered the leading contender in a nine-person field, has seen his campaign eclipsed by former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean.

"John Kerry is a great American," Lehane said in a statement confirming his resignation. "He has assembled a great team to take on George W. Bush and I wish him the best of luck as the campaign goes forward."

Lehane was a key adviser and spokesman for the campaign, though he was not on the payroll. That move was planned later this fall. He resigned last week.

Campaign officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Lehane told them he was leaving over philosophical differences with Kerry. They said Lehane, who was Al Gore’s press secretary in the 2000 race and worked for President Clinton, was among a campaign cadre of aides who believed that Kerry ran too cautiously against the threat posed by Dean and hadn’t fashioned a message beyond his biography as a Vietnam veteran.
when you try to tie it into every topic, talking point, reminiscense, etc...it just becomes tiresome, pal
Campaign strategist Bob Shrum and others urged Kerry to remain above the fray in an attempt to look presidential. Kerry avoided confrontation with Dean in the first two debates, but his rhetoric on the campaign trail has become more critical of the former governor.
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 10:00:52 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Gee, just in time to go work for the Clark campaign.
Posted by: gjs || 09/16/2003 13:43 Comments || Top||

#2  My junior senator is a pompous, egomaniacal windbag. Here's some of what he's most famous for up here among the locals.
Those medals he tossed on the Capitol steps about 30 years ago (when he wasn't bragging about being a Vietnam vet)? They were some other guys. John was good enough to toss them for him. Made a great photo op. His Silver Star and Purple Heart still look real good on his mantle in his bazillion dollar townhouse up on Beacon Hill where he lives with Mrs. Ketchup.
Speaking of that, there used to be a hydrant in front of said townhouse but JFK (he likes be called that) and the missus didn't like to park the 50 or so feet down the street and walk all that way. So he called the city and had them move it. Real man of the people.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 14:02 Comments || Top||

#3  It gets worse. Next guy in line is someone called "Gobush"!
Posted by: john || 09/16/2003 15:30 Comments || Top||

#4  Wasn't Lehane an operative of Gray Davis, on the State of California's payroll, during Davis' first term? He's got more than a little Carville in him, and his clients are just as honorable.
Posted by: Polonius || 09/17/2003 0:16 Comments || Top||


Korea
U.S. Troops Improve Defense in S. Korea
The U.S. military said Tuesday it has enhanced its air defense system in South Korea to better counter missile threats from North Korea. The U.S. military has received new equipment to upgrade its system to the latest generation of Patriot interceptor missiles, the Patriot Advanced Capability-3, the Eighth U.S. Army said in a news release.
I don’t think kimmie-boy is going to like this. What with 150,000 chinese massing on his northern border.
The Patriot missiles are built to destroy targets — such as tactical ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and enemy aircraft — by colliding with them at high speed, rather than using an explosive warhead. "This system enhances our ability to prevent any external aggression which includes North Korea," said Lt. Col. Steven Boylan, a spokesman for the Eighth Army. The U.S. military would not say how many Patriot missile batteries it keeps in South Korea.
That’s for us to know and you to find out kimmie-boy!
North Korea has an aggressive missile development program, although most of its 1.1-million army is equipped with outdated Soviet-era weapons. Its Rodong missiles can reach all of South Korea and much of Japan.
I bet we also have a bunch of Patriots in Japan as well.
North Korea shocked the region in 1998 by test-launching a three-stage Taepodong-1 missile that flew over Japan and landed in the Pacific. The missile is believed to have a 1,540-mile range, enough to reach all but the most far-flung of Japan’s islands. The communist state has accused the United States of fabricating missile threats from the North to boost its military presence in South Korea to invade the North. Washington says its military presence in the South is of defensive nature.
Firing missles over Japan isn’t a threat! Oh no!
The Patriot upgrade is part of the Pentagon’s plan to spend an additional $11 billion over the next three years to tell kimmie-boy to fark off strengthen its forces in South Korea. The United States keeps 37,000 soldiers in South Korea, a legacy of the 1950-53 Korean War.
Aren’t we technically still at war with NK?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/16/2003 9:39:10 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The ABL was supposed to demonstrate in '03 and it got pushed back to '04. What a wonderful opp this would make.
Posted by: domingo || 09/16/2003 10:35 Comments || Top||

#2  $11 BILLION FOR A BUNCH OF INGRATES??????????

Move us out of there.
Posted by: Anonymous || 09/16/2003 18:09 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Fool Me twice: Paleos Offer New Hudna
A senior Palestinian official proposes that Israel and the Palestinian Authority reach a mutual cease-fire agreement to pave the way for getting back to peace negotiations. There has been no official response yet from Israel, but an official is quoted as saying the government rejects the idea.
"YOU lying f&^kers used the last one to rearm and recruit, what say we just continue whacking honchos and building our wall"
Yasser Arafat’s top national security advisor, Jibril Rajoub told Israeli radio that the Palestinian Authority wants to reach a full, permanent truce with dead Jooooos Israel. He said the Palestinians would promise to halt all violence if Israel agrees to end its military operations and lift its blockade of Palestinian towns and villages. Mr. Rajoub said that without mutual action, nothing can be achieved.
Not a chance Jibril...as a matter of fact, we’re planning a visit to you soon, too
Mr. Rajoub did not specify how the Palestinian Authority would deal with militant groups, such as Islamic Jihad and Hamas, which have carried out most of the attacks against Israel.
by offering them cabinet positions according to Debka yesterday
An Israeli official is quoted as saying the government rejects such an offer. The official repeated Israel’s demand that the Palestinian Authority dismantle and eradicate terrorist organizations.
Step One - not done...can’t go further still you start Step One..that’s why it’s called that
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 9:35:43 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  No truce - see Steve's story on dead IJ honcho below
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 9:36 Comments || Top||


Islamic Jihad Leader Shot Dead
Israeli soldiers have shot dead a senior leader of the militant Islamic Jihad group in the city of Hebron. Local Islamic Jihad leader Majid Abu Dosh was shot while fleeing a house, surrounded by the Israeli Defence Forces.
"You’ll never, ouch, ouch...."
Troops continued to fire missiles at the house, believing another militant remained inside.
"Launch another one, Ari. There’s still two bricks together over there, might be somebody hiding behind them."
Nine other wanted militants were also arrested in various raids in the West Bank, including a Palestinian teenager who the military said was planning a suicide bomb attack.
Posted by: Steve || 09/16/2003 9:27:45 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  the head thugs in Hamas and IJ are starting to feel the pinch, IDF should include Fatah and Al-Aqsa in the whacking. The fact they're trying to coax another Hudna from Israel shows they're hurting
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 9:50 Comments || Top||

#2  Frank, I believe the tactic is to reduce the number of players in any future negotiation. Remove Hamas and IJ as players means two things:

The PA has no excuse for not negotiating in good faith

A lot of the worst terrs are snuffed

The Israelis are limiting the options that the Palestinians have, headed towards a "Negotiate in good faith" demand, with the wall and complete abandonment of Palestine by Israel as the fallback. Israel would be hurt by cutting off Palestine completely, but Palestine would be devestated economicly.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/16/2003 10:48 Comments || Top||

#3  Chuck, I think the Israelis have to send a message that terrorism cannot be used for advantage, which is why Arafat will eventually be exiled and ignored.
also, your statement:"Palestine would be devestated economicly" is already true - I read somewhere (LGF?) that since the second intifada had begun, the Israeli GDP had doubled, while the Paleo GDP had decreased by 70%. What a model for success, huh? This, while the tech markets, which Israel heavily depends on were in the tank
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 11:00 Comments || Top||

#4  I read somewhere (LGF?) that since the second intifada had begun, the Israeli GDP had doubled, while the Paleo GDP had decreased by 70%.

The knuckle-dragging Palesitnian leadership probably didn't notice this, and if they did, they don't care.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 12:35 Comments || Top||

#5  PA doesn't care. They make their money off the NGO's, UN, EU and USA donations. 50% of lots and lots is lots.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 09/16/2003 13:40 Comments || Top||

#6  Israeli GDP doubling since 2000? I'm quite sure that's wrong, they've been in recession.
Posted by: liberalhawk || 09/16/2003 15:17 Comments || Top||

#7  LH - you may be right, but per capita is all I could find by googling, don't remember where I saw it - seems like Best of the Web, now, but via Robert Prather:
Despite its recession and falling standard of living, Israel is still among the top emerging markets in terms of GDP per capita.

In this week's issue, "The Economist" ranked 25 emerging markets' GDP per capita, based on World Bank purchasing power parity (PPP) data. Israel was ranked third, after Hong Kong and Singapore.

"The Economist" states that Israel's GDP per capita was $19,330 in 2001, compared with $25,590 in Hong Kong and $24,910 in Singapore.

Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 17:24 Comments || Top||


Korea
S. Korean Authorities Urged to Reject U.S. Demand for Troop Dispatch
KCNA -- The south Korean authorities are reportedly talking about dispatching 1,200 additional troops to Iraq including 800 combat troops of a special warfare division, yielding to the U.S. pressure. Rodong Sinmun today in a signed commentary says that this can not but be a mean pro-U.S. subservient act and an anti-people and anti-national criminal act lashing the whole nation into a fury. The commentary goes on:
"Lashing", yummmmmm! How ’bout a little bondage next?
The Grand National Party zealously hailed the additional troop dispatch to Iraq, praising it as a "positive step." This has brought into bolder relief once again the pro-U.S. flunkeyist and traitorous nature of this party which stoops to any infamy in serving the U.S., its master.
It’s the return of the flunkeys!
Submission to foreign forces in disregard of the dignity and the interests of the nation would lead the nation to disgraceful ruin and death. The south Korean authorities should ponder over the grave consequences to be entailed by their traitorous troop dispatch to Iraq and resolutely reject the U.S. demand for it. All the nation is closely following the south Korean authorities’ attitude.
[holds up card] 7.2
Nice, compact, got flunkeys in there. No army based policy and no juche. But they’re real unhappy!
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 12:43:49 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  They have a ton of Chinese troops sitting on their northern border. They're going to get a lot more unhappy.
Posted by: Crescend || 09/16/2003 1:17 Comments || Top||

#2  Unless the troops are just there to prevent more North Korean refugees from escaping Jucheland.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 09/16/2003 2:32 Comments || Top||

#3  "subserviant", "criminal", "lashing", "flunkeyist" [sic], "traitorous" (twice), "infamy", "disgraceful ruin and death" (big finish!)
Pretty good - I have to agree with SW, I give it a 7.0.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/16/2003 5:38 Comments || Top||

#4  Submission to foreign forces in disregard of the dignity and the interests of the nation would lead the nation to disgraceful ruin and death.

7.5
Posted by: eyeyeye || 09/16/2003 9:20 Comments || Top||

#5  "pro-U.S. flunkeyist and traitorous nature of this party which stoops to any infamy in serving the U.S., its master"
That's at least a 8.5! I would have given it a 10.0 if they had worked in "Imperialists Lackey Running Dog." (golf clap)
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 09/16/2003 10:39 Comments || Top||

#6  ...this can not but be a mean pro-U.S. subservient act and an anti-people and anti-national criminal act lashing the whole nation into a fury.

They're in a fury, I tell ya, a goddam fury!!!
I keep waiting for the spit cranker on those 150,000 Chinese on the northern border. Think Rodung will have any psychopathic thoughts on that???
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 14:48 Comments || Top||


Home Front
Three Pakistanis indicted in US
BALTIMORE: Eleven men including three Pakistanis will face trial for alleged involvement in an international heroin trafficking and money laundering operation, US Attorney Thomas DiBiagio said on Monday. The indictment charges the men with conspiring to distribute and import the heroin and describes transactions involving more than 40 kilograms of heroin, Mr DiBiagio said. Five of the men are US residents; three are Pakistani; two are Afghan nationals living in Thailand, and one is a Canadian, Mr DiBiagio said. Arrests were made in late August in Bangkok, Thailand; Silver Spring, Maryland; Alexandria, Virginia; and northern California.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:35 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Africa: West
U.S. Calls for U.N. Force for Liberia
EFL
The United States called Monday for the United Nations to send as many as 15,000 peacekeepers and 900 police officers to Liberia to help restore peace and start rebuilding the battered West African nation. The U.S. draft resolution circulated to Security Council members asks Secretary-General Kofi Annan to transfer authority to a new U.N. peacekeeping force in October. The draft would give the U.N. force a broad mandate to help implement a June 17 cease-fire agreement, assist Liberia’s new transitional government, facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid, protect U.N. staff, and disarm combatants and retrain them for civilian life.
They could work in any wig shop on State Street in Chicago.
It also would send civilian staff. The council was scheduled to receive an open briefing Tuesday on Liberia. The U.N. Mission in Liberia, known as UNMIL, which would take over from the West Africans under the proposed U.S. resolution, would be authorized for a year and consist of ``up to 15,000 United Nations military personnel, including up to 250 military observers, and up to 900 civilian police officers, and a civilian component.’’ The draft resolution declares ``that the situation in Liberia continues to constitute a threat to international peace and security, to stability in the West Africa subregion, and to the peace process for Liberia.’’
Especially the possibility that Chuckles might come back.
It condemns the continued fighting and calls on all parties ``to immediately cease hostilities’’ and abide by the cease-fire and peace agreements. It demands that all countries prevent armed groups from further destabilizing Liberia and neighboring Guinea and Sierra Leone. It also expresses alarm ``at the dire consequences of the prolonged conflict for the civilian population throughout the territory of Liberia.’’
Dire Consequences™? There’s a term we should have taken for use with Binny and Sammy! And others, still unnamed, to come ...
The resolution would welcome the appointment of Jacques Klein as Annan’s envoy for Liberia and put him in charge of the U.N. mission. Klein predicted Friday a long haul in helping the country back onto its feet and called for generous contributions to rebuild the devastated country.
So, who here would like Klein’s job?
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 12:27:25 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  On one hand, Klein get to keep the contributions. On the other hand, he gets to be a target for the factions and Chuckles.

Tough call to make.
Posted by: Charles || 09/16/2003 14:49 Comments || Top||

#2  I might take a crack at Klein's job. When is the last time you heard criticism of the fellows that are in charge of operations in Kosovo or Haiti. People forget the last crisis quickly. Thise that remember blame an NGO or the US. Rarely is anyone in particular held accountable. Emporer of Liberia might look good on the old resume.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/16/2003 16:26 Comments || Top||

#3  "Klein predicted Friday a long haul in helping the country back onto its feet and called for generous contributions to rebuild the devastated country."

Long haul? But they keep saying six months is more than enough time for Iraq and we should follow the NGO's example and leave, surely Liberia can't take much longer!
Posted by: John Anderson || 09/16/2003 21:07 Comments || Top||


Middle East
Jordan’s King Condemns 9/11 Terrorists
The terrorists who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks harmed Islam by making people around the world believe the religion promoted violence, Jordan’s King Abdullah II wrote in an opinion piece published Monday. ``The evil that occurred ... two years ago left scars on the whole world, but none as great as the false idea that Islam encourages violence,’’ wrote the monarch, who is meeting with President Bush this week at Camp David.
I dunno, the scars left on the families of the 3,000 dead are pretty damned deep.
In an article written for the Los Angeles Times and reprinted in Jordan’s four daily newspapers, Abdullah said Jordanians have suffered because of people ``who preach the culture of terror and seek power through violence.’’
And how many of these jokers have you locked up in Jordan?
Abdullah said the actions of terrorists claiming to fight in the name of Islam has led to a great misunderstanding among Americans ``that threatens to divide the friends of peace, Arab and American, just when we most need to stand together... The only people who win when Americans feel divided from their Arab and Muslim friends are the extremists and haters. Let’s not allow these enemies of peace to do anymore violence.’’ Abdullah’s meetings with Bush will focus on restoring order to the troubled Middle East, particularly rescuing the U.S.-backed ``road map’’ for Israeli-Palestinian peace. The U.S.-led occupation of Jordan’s neighbor, Iraq, also is expected to be on the agenda.
Here’s a talking point for GWB: "Say, Abdullah, when are you going to fix your border so as to whack the dead-enders before they cross into Iraq?"
Jordan in 1994 became only the second Arab state to sign a peace treaty with Israel and is home to a large population of Palestinian refugees who fled after the 1948 founding of Israel and their descendants. It also had close ties with Saddam Hussein’s regime before U.S.-led forces toppled his government.
Ah, survival, the oldest political game.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 12:22:13 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "but none as great as the false idea that Islam encourages violence"
Total. Asshat. Apologist. Tripe. Redux.

Ok, Abdullah - enough already! Your BS has qualified you for your 2004 USAid pkg, even though our USAid Rep was gunned down in Amman not all that long ago... Now STFU. Go buy another Harley and swallow some bugs.
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/16/2003 5:45 Comments || Top||

#2  I am utterly shocked at his rush to judgement!

Just shocked!
Posted by: Michael || 09/16/2003 9:49 Comments || Top||

#3  The sarcasm is warranted, but this is still a good lesson for them to learn: F*ing with us will hurt Islam. Tattoo it on yer head if need be.
Posted by: BH || 09/16/2003 10:39 Comments || Top||


US may be open to Arafat exile
The Bush administration has indicated to Israel that it may be open to the idea of exile at some stage for PA Chairman Yasser Arafat if it is not done through force, despite public comments by senior US officials that Washington adamantly opposes the idea, diplomatic sources said. "There is wide agreement (between Israel and) the administration that he has to leave the scene. But the question is a) how and b) the timing," a senior diplomatic source said Monday. The source said that American officials, and even a few European countries, are "open to the idea," though they are concerned that an immediate deportation could trigger a Middle East flare up at a moment when Iraq is still unstable. Another source in contact with Bush administration officials said the idea of exiling Arafat seems to be "gaining a bit of traction" in Washington. But several sources cautioned that despite the administration's deep frustration over Arafat's success in undermining the former US-backed Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, the US is not yet trying to negotiate a peaceful exile for Arafat.
Is St. Helena available?
Another Washington source said that US officials have quitely told Israelis that if they accompanied the exile with some very strong positive measures for the Palestinians and ensure "things would get better" they would in fact "welcome" the exile.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:07 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  How 'bout Marion, Illinois? We could make Arafat pretty comfy in a cell there. He could be right next to Noreiga; I'm sure they have lots to talk about.

Hint to Yasser: don't refer to him as "Pineapple Face." He really hates that.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 0:18 Comments || Top||

#2  I like Leavenworth Kansas, myself...
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 0:51 Comments || Top||

#3  Another Washington source said that US officials have quitely told Israelis that if they accompanied the exile with some very strong positive measures for the Palestinians and ensure "things would get better" they would in fact "welcome" the exile.

This is a pile of crap. Kill Arafat (deep-sixing the old fart is a better solution, IMO), then tell the Palestinians to get their act together once the terrorist-in-charge is gone.

NO. MORE. EXCUSES.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 0:55 Comments || Top||

#4  Sharon needs to go to DC and look Dubya in the eye and tell him "No, Mr President. It is a foolish mistake, and beneath you, to listen to your State Dept or mainstream press - as usual, they do not speak for your people. There is much broader support for killing Arafat than you apparently think. In any case, this is not a point you may dictate to us since as many Israeli citizens have been killed, proportionately, since the instigation of the Quartet Road Map as there were people killed on 9/11 in America. You are getting bad advice on this issue - and were our positions reversed, you would do the same as I must now do. Now it is time for you to stand with us, shoulder to shoulder, or cease issuing demands that no sane nation can abide or tolerate. I will be in Tel Aviv if you need to speak with me. Arafat will be in Hell, should you need to speak with him. Good day, Mr President."
Posted by: .com (Prez for Life - My Isles of Langerhans) || 09/16/2003 6:00 Comments || Top||

#5  Is St. Helena available?

Like the concept, but that's hardly fair on the St Helenians. I think Rockall would be preferable.
Posted by: Bulldog || 09/16/2003 9:34 Comments || Top||

#6  Sharon should announce that Israel has cut a deal with elements within the Pal Authority and that Arafat will be dealt with internally. Let the paranoia build and hopefully the pal civil war will start. If Arafat starts to purge you whack him with a sniper or arrange it to look like a truck bomb took out his building.
Posted by: Yank || 09/16/2003 11:19 Comments || Top||

#7  Alaska Paul, aren't there a few rocks in the Aleutian chain that remain uninhabited? The US needs to find one, build a quonset hut on it, and exile Arafart there. Come by once a month in a helicopter to check on him - I recommend a Sea Cobra from one of the Navy's amphibious assault ships. If the gunnies aboard feel the call, they can fire a couple of missiles in the general direction, just so the old sh$$bag can re-experience all the "good" times.

Oh, and for food, we should leave him a piece of fishing line and a half-dozen hooks. If he's careful, that's all he needs. If he's NOT careful, the rest would only go to waste, anyway.

Finally, make the transition in early February, by helicopter. I'm sure Arafart will enjoy the nice "sea breeze" and balmy temps.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 09/16/2003 11:47 Comments || Top||

#8  Maricopa County Jail,Tent City.Sherief Joe Arpiao's vacancy sign is on 24/7.
Posted by: raptor || 09/16/2003 12:08 Comments || Top||

#9  Just get Arafat within 100 miles of Dallas, Texas and I can take care of the rest...
Posted by: Scooter McGruder || 09/16/2003 14:08 Comments || Top||

#10  Yes, Old Patriot. We have a number of fine rocks for which to choose as a suitable place of exile for the Arafish.

If you would like a bit of Northern Exposure, may we suggest Fairway Rock, which is between Cape Prince of Wales and Little Diomede Island in the Bering Straights. It is a bit more comfortable than Rockall, in that the top is flat. There are bird eggs to collect in the summer, but other than that, without a skiff, things are quite austere. I would rather take my chances with a fall from a helicopter.

For a more humane but quite austere existance, the Arafish can perch on the steep slopes of King Island in the Bering Sea. There once was a village there, but everyone left because it was too rugged an existance for even the Yupik Eskimos.

A third alternative would be Amchitka Island in the Aleutians. This was a test site for some megaton-sized underground atomic tests back in the sixties and seventies. Some groups claim that there is radioactive waste and plutonium around. The govt sez that it is ok. The Arafish can sort it out and settle the dispute. We can set him up a quonset hut with the basics and he will soon adapt to the subsistance lifestyle.

We could also put him out in the central gulf of Alaska at Middleton Island, about 50 or so miles south of Cordova. There is an FAA navigational aid there and there are lots of WABBITS! He could be quite self sufficient there, providing that he leaves the navaid alone!

There are also a number of islands in SE alaska, but they are too nice and charming for the likes of him. Kodiak has the same thing, but there are lots of BIG bears there and I would not like to make them sick when they chomp down on an arafish.

Hope that this helps.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/16/2003 14:46 Comments || Top||


Lebanese forces put on high alert to prevent Arafat's expulsion
The Lebanese Army and Coast Guard have been reportedly put on highest alert in order to prevent any Israeli attempts to expel Palestinian President Yasser Arafat to Lebanon, some senior Lebanese sources were quoted as saying yesterday. The army units were instructed to cope with Arafat's feared expulsion to any of the five Palestinian refugee camps scattered on the southern ports of Sidon and Tyre. The website further said that Israeli army views Lebanon as the easiest Arafat drop-off point if the Sharon government goes ahead with its decision to 'remove' Arafat from Palestinian territories, despite worldwide opposition, including from the US, France, Russia and Britain. Other countries Israel is reportedly considering to send Arafat are Egypt, Libya, Jordan and Tunisia.
Lebanon had him before, with memorable results. I don't think they're going to have a problem this time though. Remember how the Gordian knot was untied...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt || 09/16/2003 00:04 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  How about Paris? I'm sure Suha would be thrilled to see him...
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/16/2003 0:06 Comments || Top||

#2  "Honey! I'm home!"

E-e-e-e-w!
Posted by: Fred || 09/16/2003 0:09 Comments || Top||

#3  The army units were instructed to cope with Arafat's feared expulsion to any of the five Palestinian refugee camps scattered on the southern ports of Sidon and Tyre.

Sorta depends on just how the Israelis expel him. Since we're dealing with a port town, I think strapping Arafat to a torpedo and firing him at an unused, decrepit dock would work. And it save on the demolition of the dock. Perhaps the Israelis could charge the Lebanese for the expenses.
Posted by: Steve White || 09/16/2003 0:17 Comments || Top||

#4  Send him back to Tangiers - he made himself real welcome there last time around.
Posted by: mojo || 09/16/2003 0:53 Comments || Top||

#5  "Honey! I'm home!"

And to think, she had the guy's kid.

UGH.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 0:57 Comments || Top||

#6  If they can't chose one place, why not divide him up and....
Posted by: Tokyo Taro || 09/16/2003 3:48 Comments || Top||

#7  B-A-R, well, someone's gotta be a martyr in the family, and Yasser does his damndest to avoid it. I personally think this was a turkey baster deal, a la Michael Jackson's
Posted by: Frank G || 09/16/2003 10:44 Comments || Top||

#8  I prefer the Jimmy Hoffa approach myself.
Posted by: Tom || 09/16/2003 10:45 Comments || Top||

#9  ..someone's gotta be a martyr in the family, and Yasser does his damndest to avoid it.

That comment reminded me of this.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/16/2003 12:42 Comments || Top||



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Tue 2003-09-16
  NPA assassins target George Bush?
Mon 2003-09-15
  Abdur Rahim: Dead again!
Sun 2003-09-14
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Sat 2003-09-13
  Arafat fears "Zionist death rays!"
Fri 2003-09-12
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Wed 2003-09-10
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Mon 2003-09-08
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