Posted by: Capt America ||
06/16/2004 14:59 Comments ||
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#3
Why?
Does any sane person trust the soddies? Even the nutty left as far as I can tell doesn't...
Posted by: sonic ||
06/16/2004 17:33 Comments ||
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#4
124 Saudis, hmmmm...that is a goodly number of them. If they are bitching and moaning about their treatment and no contact with fellow jihadis outside world, then we are doing something right. Maybe Prince Nayaf misses them in the ranks of his minions.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/16/2004 17:49 Comments ||
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#5
It must be family reunion time for the House of Saud.
Posted by: Scott ||
06/16/2004 19:58 Comments ||
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An Islamic Web site showed videotape Tuesday of a blindfolded American hostage in Saudi Arabia and of abductors threatening to kill him unless Saudi authorities free al-Qaida prisoners within three days. Paul Johnson, 49, of Stafford Township, N.J., was abducted Saturday by a group calling itself al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula. The organization is believed to be headed by al-Qaidaâs chief in the Saudi kingdom, Abdullah-aziz al-Moqrin, who is identified as speaking on the tape. "My name is Paul Marshall Johnson, Jr.," the hostage says in the tape, seated and with an elaborate tattoo showing on his left shoulder. "I am an American. ... I work on Apache helicopters."
A U.S. official said the threat should be taken "very seriously" because the posting appeared to be credible and militants have used the site before. "It has been a good indicator in the past," the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity. The Web site was posted on the same day Saudi Arabiaâs ruling crown prince warned Islamic militants that the kingdom planned to deploy more security forces than they had ever faced before. "Be assured that the kingdom has enough men whom you havenât seen so far, but within the coming few days you will see them," Crown Prince Abdullah told the militants, whose attacks have increased during the past three months. His remarks were televised.
The tape on the Web site, http://www.hostinganime.com/sout18/ , showed a hooded man reading a statement and holding an AK-47 rifle. As the man was reading, a subtitle on the screen identified him as al-Moqrin. His statement was similar to a printed message on the Web site that carried the name of al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula. It said the group gave Saudi authorities 72 hours â by Friday â to release "mujahadeen" militants or it would kill the hostage.
Segments of the tape appeared to have been edited together and showed a blindfolded Johnson sitting in a chair with his profile to the camera.
I saw the video last night and it was professionally done. The video of Johnson was shot in the usual poor quality with bad lighting, but the inserts of someone calling themselves al-Moqrin were top-notch. Good lighting with no shadows, better camera work, nice backdrop, and quality CG work in arabic and english. Looked like it had been done in a studio somewhere and edited into the shots of the hostage. I'm betting al-Moqrin was no where near Johnson.
In one sequence, Johnson appeared to have a bandage around his neck, or a gag that had been pulled down from his mouth. The tape also displayed his Lockheed Martin identification card. Adel al-Jubeir, foreign affairs adviser to the Saudi government, told The Associated Press that the kingdom was trying to determine the authenticity of the tape and would consult with the Bush administration about what to do next. Al-Jubeir also said the current situation with the Islamic militants was not a crisis but a serious issue that the Saudi kingdom will be dealing with for some time. "Their strategy is to try to sow fear in peopleâs hearts, and to panic, and to cause an exodus of foreign workers from Saudi Arabia, in particular Westerners," he said. "They are trying to scare foreign workers into leaving Saudi Arabia because they believe it will weaken the Saudi economy and consequently weaken the Saudi government, but they are correct mistaken."
Foreign workers wouldn't be nearly as scared if every time they were surrounded the Bad Guyz didn't somehow manage to evaporate.
The statement on the Web site says the holy warriors of the Arabian peninsulaâs Fallujah Brigade has "hit" the engineering team that "oversees the development of the American Apache helicopter that attacks Muslims in Palestine and Afghanistan." It says: "The Fallujah Brigade has killed the director of this team and kidnapped one of its engineers, Paul Johnson, and if the tyrannical Saudi government wants their American master to be released, then they have to release our holy warriors that are held in Hair, Ruweis and Alisha prisons within 72 hours of this statementâs date or else we will sacrifice his blood to God in revenge for our Muslim brothers who have been liberally killed everywhere." The statement is dated June 15. The Web site statement addressed Muslims all over the world, saying: "We have made a promise to ourselves to defend you. We will not let you down, and you should know that the treacherous tyrants who have helped the Americans against you, and shared your blood with them, do not represent the Muslims of Saudi Arabia. They are our enemies as much as they are your enemies. They are the enemies of God and his prophet." On Monday, Johnsonâs son spoke to reporters about his fatherâs love of Arabic culture. Paul Johnson III said his father once sent a copy of the Quran to his sister, with passages highlighted from the Islamic holy text that he felt were especially important. "He felt he never had any fear for his safety and respects and honors their traditions and cultures," Johnson III said. "Dad said many times he loved living in Saudi Arabia." It does not matter if you love or hate them, they are going to kill you anyways...
Posted by: Anonymous4617 ||
06/16/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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It does not matter if you love or hate them, they are going to kill you anyways...
This is precisely what the anti-American/anti-Bush brigades need to get drummed into their thick skulls.
Alone, surrounded, facing death for being who he is
God needs for you to die now, Remember Ali the Alamo, Fallujah, Abu Ghraib...
Satan America allows me to kill and kill and kill...
Cut off head, God wants you to. (Really he does)
Dripping blood and chaos is his wish for you and yours
What kind of god demands such terror and blood?
How could any worship this way? Why?
Hostage weak, oh how tough you are,
bastard son of...
Put your woman in her place,
slice off the Zionist crusader American head,
then your impotence
will cease...
Or you will finally meet your martyrdom, dead and silent,
Like Lenin or Pol Pot...
Worms and the hate you left behind your only comfort...
Posted by: sonic ||
06/16/2004 1:14 Comments ||
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#4
..and whilst The Muslim Council of Britain decry the shameful treatment of muslim women in the UK (for not being allowed to wear burkas in school) we see the savagery and complicity present in the society which provides the focus for their religion. Sonic - you're damn right with the Pol Pot reference - they're trying to drag us all back to the 7th century. We should get every Westerner out of that shithole before it implodes and go back in when the Princes have been hung Falluja style - only to put a Disney logo on the gates of Mecca. They'd love it.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
06/16/2004 4:44 Comments ||
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#5
I really wish someone for once would show people like this a true consequence to their actions. If Johnson is killed, dropping the heads alone, from a dozen of their alQ buddies that they want released, on the street in that Suweida district would put a quick stop to any similar kind of hostage taking.
#6
Muslims try to wash their hands of these evil barbaric acts, but they cannot, not as long as they teach their children that non-Muslims are dogs and pigs and 'enemies of Allah' in their homes, and their schools and their mosques.
You can't listen to the sermon of hate in your mosque on friday and then on saturday act as if Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with you.
It wont fly anymore.
#7
I agree with Annony-mouse. Talk to them in the only language they can understand.
"On Monday, Johnsonâs son spoke to reporters about his fatherâs love of Arabic culture. Paul Johnson III said his father once sent a copy of the Quran to his sister, with passages highlighted from the Islamic holy text that he felt were especially important. He felt he never had any fear for his safety and respects and honors their traditions and culture . . . "
That used to work, and a lot of people still want to believe it. I don't believe it, because it's just plain stupid to believe it. Respect for others' cultures and beliefs comes from the traditions of "infidel" Christians--"respect" for (i.e., fear of) power and brutality comes from Islam, and anything better was simply a cultural carry-over from pre-Islamic times.
Thanks Howard UK--absolutely right on the mark. Is the UK waking up at all?
#8
Kudos to Anony-mouse...let's up the ante, though. What are all of these terrorist groups relying on? The old "if you do this, we'll do that" line, which is hogwash--they do what they want irrespective of what we do. We should be exploiting that technique against them (but with reason). Well placed, well thought out acts to damage and destroy the things they value most.
#9
jules 187 and anonymous---Your sentiments are on the mark. A psychopath is unable to empathize. The only way is to make an action against them that hurts them personally. Then they stop or at least throttle back. Worked for Mo. The action should be chosen that forces them to deal with the mess they made, turns them into pink mist, dust, or whatever is appropriate. You CANNOT play games with them. They do not respond normally. Negotiation is out, that is a gimmie.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/16/2004 17:57 Comments ||
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#10
The saddest thing about this whole ordeal is that the US won't do anything because this happened in SA. We have to let the Saudi's handle it for political purposes, and everyone knows how the quality of their work.
Posted by: Charles ||
06/16/2004 20:17 Comments ||
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#11
The God of Abraham is the same God of the Muslims and the Christians and the Jews. The Islamic terrorist groups are misled in their thinking. God is the creator of life. He does not want anyone to take another. There is no end in sight when the terrorist continue to wage a war that leads to nothing. Imagine if there was friendship and love between all of us. They would have no purpose or reason to unite. But as a child of God's, I will continue to pray that their hearts will be transformed. Beheading Mr. Johnson did nothing for them. Through the pain we experience through his death, we are united in love and the understanding of the hate and emptiness these terrorists love. They are not true men. What man of honor would hogtie another man and cut off his head while he was defenseless? My heart goes out to the Johnson family.
It's not going to work anymore. For some it never worked. I thought maybe that what you seem to think was true, even after 9/11/01, but the more I read, the more I saw, the more I realized the truth. These idiots are on a completely different plain. They're not true men - hell, they're not even men. They're animals. They have no honor. They lie. They use our own inventions and freedoms against us. They couldn't even put together a working toilet on their own, but they believe their culture and religion are superior. They're not just misled, they're seriously deluded. You want to bring religion into this? Fine. They believe in, and worship, Satan. God would never command any of His creations to slaughter with impunity, to kill for the purpose of spreading a religion.
Praying that their hearts are transformed is fine, but it ain't gonna help much. You pray while we go and take care of them our way - by kicking their asses until they realize that we won't tolerate that kind of behavior.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
06/18/2004 18:16 Comments ||
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#13
They continue to demonstrate they are animals. Soon, their recruits will realize the futility in their fanatical missions. This is as much about politics to them as it is to anyone. Much like politics in Japan include assasinations, the terrorists use "faith" to fuel power. They are unfortunate in their ignorance of true human nature, for it will prevail. They are few in a world of many. They are dirt, that will be stomped on.
#14
They continue to demonstrate they are animals. Soon, their recruits will realize the futility in their fanatical missions. This is as much about politics to them as it is to anyone. Much like politics in Japan include assasinations, the terrorists use "faith" to fuel power. They are unfortunate in their ignorance of true human nature, for it will prevail. They are few in a world of many. They are dirt, that will be stomped on.
#15
Does anyone have a workable plan for ending the violence in the world today? What could the solution possibly be? Would the violence REALLY stop if we beheaded the prisoners in Abu Ghraib? Would it end if the Americans left the middle east altogether? Will it end if the whole world converts to Christianity? to Islam? Unfortunately, I believe that none of these options will bring about an end to the violence. Christians and Muslims fight amongst themselves; if the whole world were converted to one faith or the other, then we would begin to find some fault with another's interpretation of the worldwide faith (as happens today). Seeking revenge is not the answer, nor is seeking unity of faith. I don't know what the answer is, can anyone tell me?
#1
Chavez needed more cash for his unscheduled election campaign. I would not be at all surprised to discover that some of the assasins that Chavez uses are FARC trained.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/16/2004 17:08 Comments ||
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Bulgariaâs intelligence chief says he is taking seriously indications that terrorists may target the Nato summit in Istanbul next week and the August Olympics in Athens. "We do have such signals, and we take them very seriously," said General Kircho Kirov. "We have communicated all relevant information to our colleagues in the neighbouring countries."
There is little hard evidence that al-Qaida has operatives in the region. But most Balkan countries have lax border controls, and arms and explosives are easily bought in the region, which is home to some militants with ties to radical Islamic groups. Other Bulgarian officials have warned of possible terror threats in the region, especially during the Athens Olympics.Bulgaria says it will work with Greek authorities and security personnel from the US, Britain, Germany and Russia during the games.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 10:10:04 AM ||
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Being the Soviet's thug supplier "back in the day", Bulgaria probably still has some good intel sources.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/16/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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#2
Thanks for the heads-up, General, but even protoplasm knows the islamonazis are going to attack the Games. Americans and Israelis first, of course, but they'll kill anyone they can get. (And the dead people's relatives will blame the Americans and the Jews, of course.)
The trick is to find out beforehand who and when and where, exactly. Got any ideas in that direction, General?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/16/2004 21:04 Comments ||
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Two Kurdish guerrillas and a policeman were killed in separate clashes in Turkeyâs tense southeast in renewed violence that has erupted since the end of a rebel truce, security sources said on Wednesday. Fresh fighting since the separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) ended its unilateral ceasefire on June 1 threatens the fragile peace in the mainly Kurdish southeast. It comes at a time when Turkey is implementing reforms to expand Kurdsâ cultural rights and meet European Union membership criteria.
A military source said two PKK fighters were killed late on Tuesday in a clash in Hakkari province, a remote area near the Iranian border used by rebels in recent months to re-enter Turkey from mountain bases mostly in Iraq. Also on Tuesday night, PKK gunmen opened fire on a police station in Hatay province near Syria, killing one officer, a security official said. The deaths raise the toll since the beginning of June to at least eight guerrillas and seven security personnel. Security officials said a bomb exploded late on Tuesday in a commercial building in the town of Sirnak near the Iraqi border. No one was hurt in the blast, which damaged several shops, and there was no immediate claim of responsibility. Separately, the PKK claimed responsibility for a gun attack in Hatay on Sunday that killed three village guards, who are armed by the state. Security officials estimate more than 2,000 militants have entered Turkey in recent months and say they are crossing back from northern Iraq via Iran and Syria.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:29:02 AM ||
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According to the Turkish press news, some 2000 Kurdish PKK terrorists have crossed from Iraq into Turkey in the recent days. The Turkish military command is preparing for a huge anti terror sweep in the border regions that could also target terrorist hide outs in northern Iraq.
Posted by: Murat ||
06/16/2004 10:43 Comments ||
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#2
I thought they agreed to the cease-fire with the hope of saving their beloved Abdullah Occalan. Are they just ready to go back to Armed Struggle(TM) or is this part of something more clever?
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 10:53 Comments ||
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#3
Well, first they want to show that they still exist (since they suffered a blow when their leader was captured) and able to perform attacks and secondly they have gathered a lot of weapons which are easy to get in Iraq.
And third they might try to provoke the Turkish army to interfere in northern with some bloody terror acts, this may cause some widened problems in the already extremely problematic area.
Posted by: Murat ||
06/16/2004 11:26 Comments ||
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#4
northern Iraq i meant
Posted by: Murat ||
06/16/2004 11:27 Comments ||
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#5
I think I heard the return to fighting was an Occalan order, through his lawyers. This is probably part of something more clever, as described by Murat.
From The Washington Post
A Spanish investigating judge today said he had concluded a comprehensive, eight-year probe into Islamic extremist activity in Spain, and his report will likely lead to formal charges and trials for 15 suspected militants accused of helping to plan the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States, according to media reports here citing the unreleased document. The judge, Baltasar Garzon, did not make his conclusions public, but the Spanish news reports, citing court sources, said 14 people now in custody and one man free on bail face terrorism charges for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Under Spainâs legal system, judges have wide latitude to conduct lengthy investigations. The results form the basis of prosecutions, indictments and trials.
Among those named in the report is Imad Eddin Barakat Yarkas, also known as Abu Dahdah, the alleged leader of Osama bin Ladenâs al Qaeda network in Spain. The news reports said he would be charged with 3,000 counts of murder for the Sept. 11 attacks. Of the 15 people reportedly named by Garzon, only one is free on bail: Taysir Alouni, who was born in Syria, lives in southern Spain and works for the pan-Arabic television network al-Jazeera. Alouni interviewed bin Laden shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, and Spanish news reports Tuesday said he was accused of providing money and information to al Qaeda. ....
Garzon began his probe into Islamic terrorist groups in Spain in 1996. The investigation intensified after the Sept. 11 attacks and led last year to several indictments, including charges brought against bin Laden. Garzon and investigators have said Spain has jurisdiction to bring charges for the Sept. 11 attacks because much of the planning is believed to have taken place here, as well as in Germany.
In March and April, Spanish investigators, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the leader of the Sept. 11 hijack team, Mohamed Atta, was known to have visited Spain twice in the months before the attacks, in January and July 2001. On July 7, 2001, with the attack planning in its final stages, Atta flew from Miami to Madrid on an American Airlines flight using an Egyptian passport and a U.S. visa, a Spanish investigator said. Atta traveled to Salou, a beach resort in the Catalan region, and stayed one night, July 17, at the small Montsant Hotel, paying $30 with a credit card for a room.
Atta also traveled in July to Tarragona, where much of the final planning for the Sept. 11 attacks is believed to have taken place. Investigators have said he rented a car and are trying to trace his credit card records to determine his movements. Atta left Spain for Miami on July 19, an investigator said. ....
The Spanish radio station Cadena Ser on Tuesday quoted Garzonâs report as saying it was "evidently clear" that Yarkas "had been in relations with some of the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 massacre" and that he had given "ideological preparation and financial and logistical support to diverse members of the organization" that moved from Spain to carry out missions in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia and Indonesia. Investigators in March and April said that Yarkas appeared to support his network largely by using credit cards stolen from the mail.
Much of Garzonâs information came from a Syrian member of al Qaeda, Khayata Kattan, who was arrested this year in Jordan and extradited to Spain. Kattan made two appearances before Garzon, on Feb. 4 and 5, and detailed in a taped declaration how he spent time in a Bosnian training camp in 1995 before coming to Spain as a money-carrier for Yarkas, taking cash to militants in Chechnya and Kenya.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/16/2004 8:35:48 AM ||
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I mean to put this on page 1.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/16/2004 8:36 Comments ||
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#2
Done.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/16/2004 9:38 Comments ||
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#3
Taysir Alouni, who was born in Syria, lives in southern Spain and works for the pan-Arabic television network al-Jazeera. Alouni interviewed bin Laden shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, and Spanish news reports Tuesday said he was accused of providing money and information to al Qaeda. ....
At some point, a really harsh spotlight will need to be shone upon the al-Jazeera network. They exhibit a consistent degree of foreknowledge and display a less than subtle advocacy of terrorist actions that strongly resemble collaboration instead of mere journalistic involvement or interest.
#4
"They (al-Jazeera network) exhibit a consistent degree of foreknowledge and display a less than subtle advocacy of terrorist actions that strongly resemble collaboration instead of mere journalistic involvement or interest. "
#6
Seems like Spain is just full of troublemakers these days. And it used to be so much nicer with Franco and Civil Wars and the like. ;)
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/16/2004 14:02 Comments ||
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#7
A5244-
I don't think anyone was expecting the Spanish Inquisition!
(Hey - SOMEBODY hadda say it...)
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/16/2004 14:06 Comments ||
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#8
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....
High-ranking officials said the arrest of a Columbus terror suspect wonât be the last in Ohioâs capital city, NewsChannel 4âs Elenora Andrews reported. The FBI and Ohioâs terrorism task force say they are still tracking terror in the city. A key federal official told NewsChannel 4, "There is more to come" in Columbus, Andrews reported.
Ohioâs top law enforcement officials said the arrest of Nuradin Abdi (pictured, left), 32, who was accused of planning to blow up a Columbus-area shopping mall, should serve as a wake-up call. "Understand that we are at war with terrorism, we are at war with an enemy that has no flag, and we are at war with an enemy that has no uniform," said Ohio State Highway Patrol Col. Paul McClellan said. Federal officials said the public might not have noticed anything unusual about Abdi, and his family said people shouldnât. But high-ranking FBI officials told NewsChannel 4 that surveillance and evidence seized from Abdi, including cell phones and computers, show otherwise. On Tuesday, the FBI told NewsChannel 4 that agents previously contacted some Columbus-area shopping malls. Key federal officials also said the government expects to make another arrest in connection to terrorism, Andrews reported.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 10:04:57 AM ||
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A suspected terrorist in U.S. custody has been cooperating with authorities and has suggested al Qaeda was planning more attacks in the United States, ABC News has learned. Mohammed Junaid Babar, a Pakistani-American, has been held in New Yorkâs federal detention center in lower Manhattan since April 2004. U.S. officials believe Babar, who was arrested in Queens, N.Y., was helping finance a group of Pakistani terrorists in London and plotting a series of bombings and assassinations.
The terror cell Babar is allegedly associated with in London was under British surveillance for months, according to officials. Members of the terror cell spoke openly of launching attacks and purchased nearly a ton of ammonium nitrate, one of the key ingredients used in the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, which killed 168 people. Babar was arrested by the FBI after British authorities alerted U.S. officials to Babarâs possible connection to the alleged plot. "Your reaction is going to be immediate, and has to be," said Jack Cloonan, a former FBI counterterrorism agent. "Because if youâre linking this person on our end, the United States to this group, are we saying is there somebody else here who is planning something here." The FBI is currently working to verify information received from Babar about alleged plans for future attacks. Investigators are also trying to determine if he has any associates in the United States.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:36:32 AM ||
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and purchased nearly a ton of ammonium nitrate, one of the key ingredients used in the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, which killed 168 people. Babar was arrested by the FBI after British authorities alerted U.S. officials to Babarâs possible connection to the alleged plot.
Hmmm..can't help but wondering if Mr. Nichols might have met some of these lads and has been talking to avoid the needle.
Posted by: B ||
06/16/2004 10:32 Comments ||
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#2
Investigators are also trying to determine if he has any associates in the United States.
More like investigators are trying to determine who his associates in the US are and where they are now.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
06/16/2004 21:07 Comments ||
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#3
Babar: from kindly elephant to Paki wacko...oh how my childhood heros have fallen
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/16/2004 22:06 Comments ||
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The worldâs largest Islamic organization pledged today to "actively help" Iraq in its transition to sovereignty and democracy, support seen as key to boosting the stature of the U.S.-backed Iraqi interim government. The 57-country Organization of the Islamic Conference, wrapping up a three-day foreign ministersâ meeting in Istanbul, also called on the international community to give priority to resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict and said Islamic countries will work to promote reform and development. The Istanbul Declaration was adopted at the closing session of the three-day conference.
The declaration announced its support "for steps toward ending the occupation of Iraq." It supports the process of the transfer of authority to the Iraqis and stresses that the transfer of authority "must be full." The OIC also "decided to help Iraq actively in the transition process and work to fulfil its needs," it added. The declaration did not elaborate. But it was unlikely that peacekeeping troops to help the U.S.-led forces would be offered, and such help would probably be political and economic. Most OIC countries opposed the U.S.-led war that ousted Saddam Hussein last year. The support from the OIC and bordering states was seen as likely to help the interim Iraqi government as it seeks to establish its own legitimacy and distance itself from the disbanded Iraqi Governing Council, which had been branded a U.S. creation. That is crucial as the insurgency in Iraq has turned increasingly violent ahead of the planned June 30 handover of power to the interim government. Iraqi officials co-operating with the Americans have frequently been targets of the violence.
The Istanbul declaration welcomed last weekâs UN resolution on Iraq, which endorsed the transfer of sovereignty from the U.S.-led occupation and authorized a multinational force in that country. It said the political process should result "in an elected government that is fully comprehensive and transparent." "This organization cannot ignore Iraq. We believe that Islamic countries need to be more active," Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said later at a news conference. The declaration also condemned terrorism and "agreed to double our efforts to fight this scourge."
Posted by: tipper ||
06/16/2004 11:50:03 AM ||
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The worldâs largest Islamic organization pledged today to "actively help" Iraq in its transition to sovereignty and democracy
#4
Iran FM: European states should not be affected by US pressure
However, even should the European states "not be affected by US pressure," they might suddenly find themselves affected by the pressure of an Iranian nuclear bomb blast's shock wave.
The usual Arabic testicular language finds Iran simultaneously belittling Europe's courage while desperately attempting to obtain the means whereby they could permanently dominate them on their own.
It is simply dumbfounding how Europe blithely continues playing the rope-a-dope to Iran's shoolyard bully.
#5
When Europe is within range of Iran's nuclear tipped missiles who will they call? Whose missile defense shield will protect them? Sleep well France has your back.
Asset rich target coming up
Hundreds of hardline Islamic protesters gathered at two Iranian nuclear plants on Wednesday, vowing to defend with their lives Iranâs right to develop nuclear technology, the official IRNA news agency reported. The protests coincided with tense negotiations in Vienna over the wording of a draft resolution which sharply rebukes Iran for poor cooperation with the U.N.âs nuclear watchdog. Washington and many European states fear Iran may be secretly building a nuclear weapons capability. Tehran strongly denies this and says its atomic ambitions are limited to producing electricity from nuclear power reactors.
Some 400 demonstrators assembled in front of the Bushehr atomic reactor being built in southern Iran and called on the government to resist the "unfair" demands of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), IRNA said. The protesters, including many members of the hardline Islamic volunteer militia known as Basij, said the draft resolution was an insult to the countryâs independence. "We are ready to sacrifice our lives to defend our rights and independence," IRNA quoted Kamal Shanbodi, head of the Basij in Bushehr, as saying.
Another 500 people gathered in the central city of Arak, where Iran is developing a heavy water reactor. The protesters carried placards calling for a review of Iranâs relations with France, Germany and Britain -- the three countries behind the draft IAEA resolution, IRNA said. "Nuclear technology is our absolute right. Death to America, Britain, Germany and France." they chanted, according to IRNA.
Posted by: tipper ||
06/16/2004 11:32:22 AM ||
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"Nuclear technology is our absolute right. Death to America, Britain, Germany and France." they chanted, according to IRNA.
That statement alone should connect the dots for any skeptics.
I'm glad such fanatical elements are gathering at these nuclear sites. Bunching themselves up like that only makes for a more target-rich environment.
#2
Meh, they probably aren't partying in front of the actual weapons development targets. Plaster these clowns, and you'll just shower civilian-grade uranium fuel over the countryside.
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
06/16/2004 14:31 Comments ||
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#3
However much I've routinely opposed causing such radiological contamination, time is running out and we will need to drop any such concerns during formulation of realistic plans to disrupt Iranian efforts.
Perhaps a glow-in-the-dark landscape or two might help persuade the Iranian people how crucial it is for them to immediately begin stringing up their morals police and mullahs from the nearest lamp posts.
Iran threatened on Wednesday to resume uranium enrichment, a process that could be used to make atomic bombs, if the U.N. nuclear agency passed a toughly-worded resolution rebuking Tehran for poor cooperation. The United States immediately accused Iran of trying to bully the board of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), meeting in Vienna, and said such tactics increased suspicions that Tehran was secretly making weapons. "The basic message that Iran is sending is that they have something to hide and theyâre going to use any means they have, including intimidation, to keep things from coming to light," U.S. ambassador to the U.N. in Vienna Kenneth Brill said.
In his toughest warning to the IAEA yet, Iranian President Mohammad Khatami described as "very bad" a resolution drafted by Britain, Germany and France that "deplores" Iranâs inadequate cooperation with the agency. "I am not saying we will do something particular, but if this resolution passes, Iran will have no moral commitment to suspend uranium enrichment," he told reporters. Khatami, aware that Washington wants its case sent to the U.N. Security Council for possible sanctions, balanced his tough line with assurances that Iranâs nuclear aims were peaceful and that Tehran did not plan to kick out U.N. inspectors. "We have no intention of using nuclear technology for military use," he said. "We will continue our cooperation with the agency in the framework of the law and our rights."
In Vienna, several diplomats said a majority of the IAEA board backed the draft resolution and it was unlikely the text would be greatly changed. The draft was expected to go before the board for formal debate later on Wednesday, and the board could take a formal position as early as Thursday, they said. Hossein Mousavian, head of Iranâs delegation in Vienna, said Iran might end its partnership with Britain, Germany and France, who brokered an agreement last year that led to Iran suspending uranium enrichment and agreeing to snap nuclear inspections. To the Europeansâ annoyance, Iran has never completely stopped enrichment-related activities.
How dare they annoy the Euro's, don't they know they'll send a stern note?
"Despite the threats from Iran, the Europeans are standing firm. This is typical brinkmanship on the part of Iran," a Western diplomat from an influential IAEA board member said. Joe Cirincione, a nuclear expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace think-tank in Washington, said most IAEA board members believed Iran was playing a "cat and mouse" game with the IAEA while pursuing secret weapons-related activities. "This is why the EU strategy is to suspend the enrichment program. You stop that while the IAEA is carrying out inspections," he said. Iran says the resolution under discussion in Vienna has blown technical shortcomings out of proportion and is driven by an anti-Iranian political agenda in the United States. "The IAEA resolution is very bad ... (it) violates our countryâs rights," Khatami said. "Iranâs nuclear row is political, and there is a political will behind it to stop us accessing peaceful nuclear technology," he said. Diplomats in Vienna say Washington wants a tougher resolution which would set a deadline for Iran to clear up remaining ambiguities about its nuclear program. Failure to do so would see Iran reported to the Security Council. Khatami ruled out following the calls of some hard-liners in the Islamic Republic for Iran to withdraw from the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which would remove its nuclear program from the scrutiny of U.N. inspectors. "We are a member of the NPT and we will continue to be so," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:27:23 AM ||
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#1
Instead of just one toughly worded rebuke, the UN should send multiple toughly worded rebukes. Each rebuke should make it very clear that something needs to happen. I'm sure China would be on board with this.
If that doesn't work maybe a threat, after the threat some negotiating to pave the way for inspections. If after all that the mullahs still drag their sandals then a ten page condemnation signed by the intire world body politic, sans france due to prior agreement. The condemnation should leave no wriggle room, its put up or shut up, a dire warning. Like a shot accros the bow!
#2
I presume that after the "shot across the bow" they will have waiting in the wings, a stern lecture, severe finger shaking and, failing those drastic measures, the justly famous threat of diplomatic intervention.
#4
Once again we are headed for a do loop. do research, make findings known in a report, present to UN, everyone a twitter, make UN resoulution, threaten serious consequences, Iran goes nuts does the version of a Kimmie, back to the UN. You get the picture. The only way out of the do loop is either:
Iran gets a nuke, thereby mootifying the UN.
The US steps in, mootifying Iran.
There ya go folks, the secret playbook.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/16/2004 18:20 Comments ||
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#5
If there is a debate, I can think of no better place than right smack dab in the center of the UN. No deliberative organization has the moxy to get right to it more than the UN.
Let my soul not be troubled. Let the debate begin. And if there is a resolution may it not be as drastic as diplomatic intervention, (the horror) but serious rebuke followed by....
#8
Do Khatami and Kimmy coordinate their threats so that the statements are staggered? I picture two girlfiends on the phone preventing the faux pas of purchasing the same prom dress?
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/17/2004 0:24 Comments ||
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Iran is close to putting on trial a group of al Qaeda members it suspects of plotting terrorist activities inside the country, a senior official said Wednesday. Hossein Mousavian, secretary of the foreign policy committee of Iranâs Supreme National Security Council, described the suspects as middle-ranking al Qaeda members and said they were still being questioned in jail.
He told reporters in Vienna, where he is heading Iranâs delegation to talks at the U.N. nuclear agency, that the alleged militants had been "plotting against the national security of Iran and they have planned for terrorist activities inside Iran." Asked why Iran was taking so long to try them, he said: "I think we are getting close to a trial...The process is going on. First of all I think the process of questioning should be finalized." Asked if Iran was holding Adel, Mousavian refused to answer directly but added, laughing: "This is not, definitely, (Osama) bin Laden or Mullah Omar" -- a reference to the fugitive al Qaeda and Taliban leaders. Iranâs foreign minister first said in January that Iran was holding about a dozen al Qaeda suspects and planned to try them. The United States demanded at the time that Tehran hand over the suspects to their countries of origin. Mousavian said such a handover was possible, but only after a trial. "It depends on the result of the trial...If and when Iran decides to deliver, they will deliver to their own countries, not to the United States," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:40:19 AM ||
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#1
Al Qaeda on trial in Iran? MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I need the bathroom.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
06/16/2004 10:35 Comments ||
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#2
30 dinars or 30 days!
"Most gracious imman the money sounds good but I do need the vacation"
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/16/2004 11:10 Comments ||
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#4
Iran getting close to putting al-Qaeda on trial
As is being made very clear, Iran will do anything with the least resemblance to what Europe hopes from them in order that they might gain more time for fabricating a nuclear device.
This is blatant accommodation and merely stalling for time. Nobody should be fooled by such palliative measures.
#5
Right on, Zenster. Smoke and mirrors, on Iran's part.
Iran needs more time to work things out with China, and China needs more time to play Iran right without being discovered by the greater powers. Iran gets what they want and so does China. If China can effect a big blow, and blame it on a rogue state, it serves them well. And the Iranian mullasses are hoping to deflect attention away from themselves, and come away with an accusation in the back pocket for the political gaming: "See! We have cooperated with the West, and still they wish to aggress against us! Imperialists! Oil-mongers!" Too bad the Iranians don't see what the Chinese are all about, and I'm not sure anybody else does either. The Chinese make the Islamics seem "warm and fuzzy" by comparison. Good thing they don't have the ability to carry out their aims (yet).
#6
Too bad the Iranians don't see what the Chinese are all about, and I'm not sure anybody else does either. The Chinese make the Islamics seem "warm and fuzzy" by comparison. Good thing they don't have the ability to carry out their aims (yet).
Preach it, ex-lib!
I've been screaming this from the rooftops and nobody seems to be purchasing a clue. The Chinese are the real terrorists. Militant Islam is just a conspicuously violent religious convulsion, while China is a dire and potent threat to the entire world. Iran is merely another North Korea in the litter of rabid Rotweillers being suckled by communist China.
More interesting stuff from Belmont (secondary source unfamiliar to me, salt to taste):
[T]he most senior of Saddamâs holdouts, Izzat Ibrahim, has pledged allegiance to Abu Musab al Zarqawi. If true, this may suggest that Iran has also swept up the masterless ronin of the former dictator and enlisted them under new management: in short, Iran may now own the Baâathist remnants. "It added that, at the sight of Zarqawi, Izzat Ibrahim shouted: âYou are the commander and we are your soldiersâ. His son Ahmad handed him a copy of the Quran. His father took it, placed his hand and the hands of his sons on it, and they made an oath to God, pledging allegiance to Zarqawi in the Jihad until victory or martyrdom, in good and bad timesâ. In the end, the network stated that, âthe meeting was brief. Izzatâs sons were placed with the Mujahideen, and the father was placed in the ranks of Zarqawi and other Mujahideen leaders. That day witnessed distribution of hundreds of automatic weapons and large quantities of ammunition on the Mujahideenâ. Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri was vice-president of Iraq and deputy chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council before the war in Iraq in 2003. Currently one of the most wanted men in Iraq (the king of clubs in the USâs deck of cards), he is believed to be a leading figure behind the resistance attacks against US-led forces and has a $10mn bounty on his head, for his arrest or information leading to his capture."
#1
"Before Allah, we pledge to continue bombing innocent Iraqis and dismembering Western contractors until our citizens are everybit as poor as the Palestinians."
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/16/2004 22:18 Comments ||
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#2
he's the crazy redhead? shouldn't be that hard to find via UAV (lol)- track him back to Zarqawi...kinda like tracking Krusty the Clown to nail Sideshow Bob
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/16/2004 22:38 Comments ||
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#3
When they stop wearing the kafiyeh in Iraq, Frank, you'll have him in a blinding (red) heartbeat!
One thing I find rather hysterical is that Zarqawi's bounty is 'only' $1M USD - while Al Dhouri's (Duri, Douri, whatthefuckever) is $10M USD, this must be the cause of much jealousy and reward envy -- status is everything in Arabia, heh.
BTW, this sheds light on the, otherwise startling, reference to Syrian Wahhabi's which I found rather funny in an earlier post.
#4
Belmont's good - the only problem is that they usually stick to "on-the-ground" and don't pay as much attention to the higher ups, but they're well-versed in military doctrine and sometimes suggest their own; I remember a post that called future wars less about military power than about a conflict between societies ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
06/17/2004 0:03 Comments ||
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FoxNews TV has been reporting today that interrogation of Umar Bazyiani has yielded good intelligence on Zarqawiâs location and plans. According to the report, Zarqawi is currently in Fallujah and is personally protected by a group of jihadis among the âinsurgentsâ now in control of that city.
#3
In light of the total and consistent duplicity by Islamists, this just as easily could be a ploy for encouraging American forces to commit some sort of final outrage before departing.
All said and done, I'd just as soon use this information as a reason for cordoning off the entire town to catch Zarqawi and Sadr in the same net.
#4
That'll be one large net. Sadr's not in Fallujah. Sadr's not a Sunni. Sadr's down South, hoping to obfuscate his official status as a murder suspect and 'unofficial' status as an Iranian agent and general failure as a revolutionary Shi'a insurrection instigator.
#6
It'd still be a good excuse to clobber Fallujah to pry him out. But I don't think it'll happen. The casualties would be too high, and it looks like they're trying to avoid that because of the election. Bad idea.
Very bad.
Posted by: fred ||
06/16/2004 17:11 Comments ||
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#7
According to the report, Zarqawi is currently in Fallujah and is personally protected by a group of jihadis among the âinsurgentsâ now in control of that city. .com: what's your best assessment on how much control the insurgents wield in Fallujah? I understand they can do force projection, but do you think they maintain control over the majority of the city?
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/16/2004 17:19 Comments ||
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#8
Well we can't level fallujah...
But don't we have some CIA agents or something we can send in to off him?
(If he's there...)
Posted by: sonic ||
06/16/2004 17:31 Comments ||
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#9
I hate to think that the election will prevent us from capturing or killing a known terrorist. I suspect that bagging Zarqawi in Falluja would actually go over pretty well with the electorate even if there are a lot of casualties.
I suspect that if the info is solid and the locals do not cooperate, we'll send in the Marines. We're not Spanish. The problem is that our leadership may not trust the info it's getting enough to make the call.
The fact that electoral politics may play a role here is part of the price we pay for living in a democracy. But it need not be too high a price and it's worth it.
#10
RM - I'm not claiming to be an authority on Fallujah - just keeping tabs on the available sources like everyone else here. A few things are clear and well documented / reported:
1) the core of the hardcore 'insurgents' are foreign (Syrian, et al)
2) they have made common cause alliance with the remaining frightened Sunnis / Thugs (smuggling center) / Saddamite Ba'athists / Ba'athist sympathizers (maybe as much as a third or half of the population, in total?)
3) this will obviously vary in strength as each feels threatened or sees advantage elsewhere; separating these allies was the intent of the political intervention... it failed miserably, IMO
4) they are well-armed (the Syrian pipeline is obviously active - see Weddings)
5) thanks to political meddling they gained strength and support from their media-enhanced 'victory' over the Marines
6) and they need only intimidate the population (very easy for a very few to cow very many in Arab culture) to control the city
Just my observations from what I've read that seems credible. I'm sure others can extend the list for 'why' they are a very real center of power for the jihadists in Iraq. I see no solution to this other than brute force - which was working very very well (remember the outcry against us as the Marines were reducing them methodically - perfect proof that it really hurt) before the politics intervened.
If anyone has a reasoned argument that somehow Fallujah will 'magically' stop being a jihadi stronghold and thorn in the side of Iraq until cleared out, I'd love to read it.
#11
No apologies necessary...that's quality windage. I had been trying to follow the situation but good info on our position there has been hard to come by - I thought we still might have some Marines in forward positions. We did have em squeezed at one point. Unfortunatley, I don't see us stirring up the hornets nest as we get close to the election, so perhaps the idea of trying to flush him holds water. Would be a good thing to bag this @sswipe.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/16/2004 18:28 Comments ||
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#12
RM - Agreed, it's not likely... But Zarqawi is worth the 'grief' that would ensue, IMO. All worthwhile acts seem to have a price tag attached which is (usually) equivalent to the reward - nothing ventured, nothing gained... They don't consult me, however... ;-)
Here's a great link that contains some information that is very different from the press reports (voluminous, but worthlessly flawed by bias) and the damned trickle we get from CENTCOM. I think you'll find info both supportive and contrary - and of such are horse races made, lol!
#13
I'm having heart palpatations: on Fox Charles Krauthammer is saying Fallujah's not a US problem, it's an Iraqi problem... Mara Liasson (NPR) and Jerff Birnbaum (WaPo) are saying we can't leave such a large nest of vipers (my phrasing) intact - the Iraqis aren't capable politically or militarily to deal with it.
OMG (and I'm an atheist, lol!) Ethel - get my pills!
I'll have to go think long and hard about this - the customary wisdom of juxtaposition from idiotarians has just failed me - big time!
#14
Now Fox is reporting that Marines are, again, accompanying the 'Fallujah Brigade' patrols into the city. Yes! Also, that the info from Baziyani (I misspelled it in original post - apologies, Fred!) was corroborated from other intel sources and it seems to be very firm.
#15
Wasn;t there a post yesterday or sometime this week saying that the Fallujah Brigade was a big dissapointment to the Marines? If so, Kimmet just lost his job. That was his baby. We need to "rubbelize" that town. I don't think anything short of that is going to get the point across. Too much friggin State Department going on here. Need more Marines!
Posted by: remote man ||
06/16/2004 19:23 Comments ||
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#16
Joint patrols....good. June 30 is 2 weeks away. Things are bound to get hot real soon. We may not stir the hornets nest, but we better be in a position to deliver some smackdown should the situation arise. And thanks fer the links .com...much appreciated.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/16/2004 19:26 Comments ||
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#17
remote man: I didn't see the post but for both the ICDC and Fallujah Brigade it's been mixed. I have seen some good after action reports (written up by the Marines themselves) where units from both organizations did well, so the cup's either half empty or half full. The fact that it's mostly foreign jihadists in Fallujah now may tilt it in our favor.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
06/16/2004 19:38 Comments ||
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#18
Wasn;t there a post yesterday or sometime this week saying that the Fallujah Brigade was a big dissapointment to the Marines?
Yep, the Fallujah Brigade has not in the whole learned to properly fold up their new orange Sam Brown belts into a nice 4 x 3 with shiny badge showing.
#19
I'm having heart palpatations: on Fox Charles Krauthammer is saying Fallujah's not a US problem, it's an Iraqi problem... Mara Liasson (NPR) and Jerff Birnbaum (WaPo) are saying we can't leave such a large nest of vipers (my phrasing) intact - the Iraqis aren't capable politically or militarily to deal with it.
It's not really stunning when you look at the context. The 'other side of the aisle' realises they aren't going to have any traction going into November by maintaining the present "Screamin' Dean" philosophy of opposing the war.
It's also a chance to score points by saying the war isn't being run right. That's a legitimate argument, but this is more a CYA moment than an actual flash of wisdom.
#20
If Fallujah (and major points west) becomes inarguably THE identifiable rats nest of the triangle, then I think the Marines need to finish the job they started so well. As usual, I worry that there is the political will to do what is required.
Posted by: remote man ||
06/16/2004 20:33 Comments ||
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#21
Rex M - did you enjoy the 'Divine Intervention' claims in the June 11 email?
Jinn / Djin are, apparently, pre-emminent on the field in Iraq. To show proper respect, you are hereby commanded by xxx to install this Djin Clock Screensaver, lol! Of course, I wouldn't touch the D/L with a 10 ft pole, considering!
#22
[A] race of beings created from the intense desert winds who were flaunting Allah's laws.
And, lo, unto them Volkswagen gave the name, "Scirocco!" Yea, so it has been said that, even now to this very day, proper Muslim women may not steer them yet.
#24
I am in total agreement with Charles Krauthammer. No move should be made until the Iraqi governement decides that enough of their citizens are dead.
Freedom requires a blood price - many of our Declaration signers paid for their signature with their lives, homes and/or family.
If they aren't strong enough to act themselves, and are politically unwilling to let the Pershmergas butcher Zarqawi than they certainly have enough freedom and soverignity to ask for our help. We should treat this as if they have the veto power that was so important to the French UN Ambassador.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/16/2004 22:56 Comments ||
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#1
These videos need to get out on the net as it is the only place that the public will be able to see for its self the gruesome nature of the Saddam regime.
#3
The Pentagon has lots of Saddam atrocity footage â but is loathe to release it, possibly for fear it would be taken as a crude attempt to blunt criticism of Abu Ghraib.
It isn't a crude attempt--it's a valid reason to blunt that criticism. I hope the links will end up all over the web so our liberal friends can't avoid seeing it--then they can stop waving their America-is-so-horrible flag and face the stark horror of true human ugliness.
#4
It isn't a crude attempt--it's a valid reason to blunt that criticism.
Yep, sure is. What happened at Abu Ghraib pales in comparison to the atrocities committed in Saddam's name. This needs to be driven home, and if releasing gory footage gets the point across, then do it.
"Comparing these videos to the photos of naked Iraqi prisoners, what is worse? 'Abuse' at the hands of U.S. soldiers, or torture/mayhem by Saddam's thugs?"
Nothing matters. The people harping about Abu Ghraib (and I include a number of Rantburg regulars) don't give a rat's ass about the facts, because they're much more interested in how they can use the images.
Images of what Saddam's torturers did aren't useful to them, and are in fact harmful to their positions. So those images will disappear.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/16/2004 14:36 Comments ||
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#6
Make Teddy Kennedy watch them, so he'll have an idea what an ACTUAL atrocity looks like.
#7
She is missing the point. It is not that the press doesn't know how to deal with it. They know and are dealing with it the way they want to. They exult in showing "how bad Americans are" and find it quite convenient not to show real atrocities. There is no mystery here.
#8
Abu Ghraib: Torture! Panties on Arab heads! Ugly, burka-less dykes pointing at genitals! Film at 11!
Pre-liberation, Saddam-controlled Iraq: Video taken during Saddam's glorious rule. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
06/16/2004 15:45 Comments ||
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#9
Ted and the media know full well what ACTUAL atrocity is. And they know full well that there is no comparison between the humiliations at Abu Ghraib and Saddam's rape rooms/mass graves/people shreadders/what-these-videos-show.
They are deliberately and with full knowledge lying in order to harm the administration and America in general.
#10
AEI spokeswoman Veronique Rodman, puzzled by the minimal interest in the Saddam torture video, is sure that if it was a video of equally horrific torture committed by U.S. troops, the press would find ways to show or report it.
Truer words . . .
I recall that, shortly after the liberation, videos of Baathist torture were hot-sellers on the streets of Baghdad. Although the American public is shielded from this stuff by mommy-media, the Iraqi's know the difference between atrocity and humiliation.
Perhaps we should release the videos and say it is being comitted by U.S. Troops and then, after the media gets their panties all in a knot and the 'We Hate America' morning lie shows are fully engaged we tell them the truth....
#12
Make Teddy Kennedy watch them, so he'll have an idea what an ACTUAL atrocity looks like.
C'mon, Ted Kennedy's perfectly aware what a real atrocity looks like. At least, he does if being deliberately left behind, trapped in a sunken car to slowly suffocate counts as an atrocity.
It does in my book.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
06/16/2004 18:16 Comments ||
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#13
Reporters. I wonder, do they become traitors deliberately or simply through incompetence and stupidity? If it takes two witnesses to their treason, doesn't reading or watching their broadcasts count? Maybe it's time for a few affadavits on just what we see on TV. And let's consider they are fast reaching the point where public believes lawyers more than a journalist. Now they just have to work on squirming their way under car salesmen.
Two 15-year-old girls were arrested overnight Wednesday in the West Bank city of Nablus for allegedly planning to carry out a suicide attack together with their fathers, Army Radio reported. According to the report, the four were recruited by an Al-Aksa activist. IDF sources told the radio that the same activist recruited Husam Abdu, 16, of Nablus to carry out a suicide bombing at the Huwara checkpoint south of the West Bank city. The two teenage girls were identified as members of the Fatah organization, Majda Kohon and Assil al-Hindi. They were arrested in Nablus and taken into custody along with their fathers. Israel radio reported that after questioning it transpired that one of the girls had recruited the other to carry out a suicide bombing attack. A report on the Maâariv quoted the mother of one of the girls as saying she believed her daughter, whom she described as disciplined and did not leave the house much, to be completely innocent.
Also Wednesday, a Palestinian from the Islamic Jihad organization was shot and killed by members of a Border Police undercover unit in Jenin during a sweep for Palestinians wanted for questioning by the security forces. According to Army Radio, Majed al-Saâadi, 25, was at the time inside a restaurant in Jenin. Military sources said al-Saâadi tried to flee despite being surrounded and was shot when he failed to heed repeated calls to stop. The sources said the Border Police troops came under fire from several points during the course of the mission. There were no casualties or damage and the soldiers returned fire. Five other fugitives were arrested in Jenin by members of the undercover unit and another nine were captured during sweeps on nearby villages.
The incident happened during similar operation in various West Bank locations in which a total of 28 suspected terrorists and Palestinians wanted for questioning were detained. The 12 other Palestinians, including Hamas militants, were captured during sweeps in Dir Amar, El-Bireh and A-Ram near Ramallah, as well as in Hebron.
Posted by: tipper ||
06/16/2004 11:19:51 AM ||
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#1
Ah Islam, where fathers "protect" their daughters' virtue, but facilitate their daughers' deaths...that culture has surely cornered the market on fatherly care.
#6
Too bad there isn't the technology to holograph or robotize human look-alikes. Israel could empty a their towns of the real humans and let the Paleos have at it. They could just blow themselves up to their heart's content! And there'd be less of them to deal with. (Sometimes fantasy is helpful when confronted by the most inexcusable acts.)
jules187: From the Palestinian's (very stupid) thinking constructs, they are protecting their daughter's "virtue"--they're getting their daughters to Islam-ick paradise before they girls have a chance to engage their God-given endowments--or, as they think of it--destroy themselves with Arab men (hey--maybe they're on to something there . . . .). Anyway, women aren't worth much in their estimation, so it serves their purpose to use them in an attempt to "humiliate" more men into suicide bombings: "See, Abu! Even fifteen-old-girls are doing this, and you're not. Oh, the shame . . . "
#7
hey...I could take a couple of 15-year old girls to paradise (wink wink, nudge nudge)
Posted by: Dirty Old Man ||
06/16/2004 12:46 Comments ||
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#8
Ex-lib--you're right. I just see some irony in their "thinking"-they are simultaneously valiant protectors of women and family members murdering female kin.
#17
This just goes to show that the Paleos are getting to the bottom of the barrel for boomers. The adults are largely done, the sick Hep and other disease carriers are done. They tried kids. They are on their way to bottom out. Between disengagement and walls, the Israelis will be pretty secure. At least much better than before. The Paleos will have nothing to do soon except sit and rot in ther State, or make war on each other. They have dipped in the well of world sympathy and even that is running dry. Some people will never get it.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/16/2004 18:09 Comments ||
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#18
Come on, guys. Can't you see that Palestinian girls are becoming equal with the boys. They can boom now as equals. It's called progress.
Posted by: marek ||
06/16/2004 21:15 Comments ||
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Unconfirmed reports by multiple posters on multiple Arabic language message boards claim that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has died.
The reports indicate that Mubarak's health took a turn for the worse late last night, and he was rushed to a Cairo hospital. According to the report, the Egyptian government is expected to not release news of the death until an orderly succession can be ensured.
#2
If true, things'll be interesting for the next month or so. I'm not sure Junior's in position to assume the Seat of All Power...
Posted by: Fred ||
06/16/2004 12:55 Comments ||
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#3
this is obviously the start on the much needed regional enema that has been a long time coming.
I feel the region is in for a lot more pain before things are going to get better.
God willing the "good" arabs will be left stand in the end.
Pass the popcorn and let the games begin !!!
#5
Sung to WALK LIKE AN EGYPTIAN
Sung by Kim Carnes in the 1980s
Old Cairo sits by the nile,
Hosni was there don't you know?
Now is the time
away oh
Room tem-pra-ture he is now.
King Tut and the virgins too,
Wait him with open outstretched arms.
In paradise
Oh way oh!
And Cleopatra is there too.
Ascending -
High above the ground
Say a-oh, way-oh, a-oh-way-oh.
Float like an Egyptian.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/16/2004 13:22 Comments ||
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#8
"...the second result comes right back to Rantburg."
Bwahahahahaha! Chalk up another success for the Rantburg Drive for Media Dominance®!
Posted by: Old Grouch ||
06/16/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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#9
"I'm not dead. In fact, I'm getting better. I think I'll go for a walk."
--Hosni Mubarak
Posted by: Mike ||
06/16/2004 13:37 Comments ||
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#10
1. there have been rumors of his ill health in main stream media - MSNBC in December
2. Still, posts to Arabic language message boards? Hardly a reliable source. (oh, yeah, and the Lakota Sioux were Arabs, dont ya know)
3. If its true this is BAD timing. What with the Gaza withdrawl coming up. Would be much better if this were to happen AFTER Gaza withdrawl, and Iraqi elections.
#12
LONDON (Reuters) - Oil prices eased on Wednesday as a modest increase in U.S. crude stocks offset the impact of sabotage attacks that have crippled Iraqi exports.
U.S. light crude shed four cents to $37.15 a barrel, while London's Brent crude lost three cents to $35.00.
if there was anything to this, i assume that the oil traders would have wind of it, and that the price of oil would go up on the news.
#13
Currently reading "Understanding Terror Networks" by Marc Sageman. Excellent Rantburg Book Club material. (Heard about it on NPR, of all places.) One of the key themes is the extent to which al Qaeda is really an Egyptian operation by philosophy (starting with Sayyid Qutb of the Moslem Brothers) and by operational management. Sageman details the split in the nineties between the Egyptian jihadis who wanted to stay local and focus on overthrowing the regime and those who wanted to go global. The leadership of the former group got jugged and for the most part renounced operations against the Egyptian regime. The latter group, led by Al-Zawahiri, coalesced around Bin Laden to form the modern al Qaeda. Or at least al Qaeda as it looked before we started rolling it up.
Here's my amateur take: whole lot of Egyptian jihadi energy out there. If the regime looks vulnerable, that energy could get seriously focused.
#15
I guess if things got bad enough in Egypt we could see a dramatic re-enactment of 1967.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/16/2004 14:26 Comments ||
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#16
egyptian Islamic Jihad (Zawahiris group, pre merger with AQ) murdered Sadat, terrorized Copts, and attacked western and Israeli tourist. It could get quite nasty if they go on the warpath again. Much like Saudi, now.
DEBKAfile reports exclusively: Stubborn rumors that Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak has died are coming from Washington â but not confirmed in Cairo. CIA chief Tenet is reported to have met Mubarak Wednesday.
20:53 Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak holds talks with CIA director, quashing rumors of illness
Posted by: marek ||
06/16/2004 15:48 Comments ||
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#25
CAIRO (AFP) - Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak appeared on state television just hours after a London-based Islamist group alleged he had been admitted to hospital in critical condition.
The president, who is 76, was shown meeting with Defense Minister Mohammed Hussein Tantawi and then talking to two reporters outside what appeared to be his residence.
During the brief encounter, Mubarak said that Cairo had offered to train Palestinian security forces as part of efforts to prepare for a planned Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip
Posted by: Chris W. ||
06/16/2004 16:27 Comments ||
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#27
Debka just isn't all that reliable. Sometimes they're right; other times they post moonbat stuff. Some even suspect they might be an Israeli disinformation site.
Al-Qaida has spread its tentacles across Karachi, creating a cobweb of affiliated groups and cells that are not even aware of each other, Pakistani intelligence officers told United Press International. One of the groups Pakistani authorities busted during the weekend is known as Jund-Allah or the Soldiers of God. "We had never heard of this cell before. Itâs a total surprise for us," said Karachiâs police chief Syed Kamal Shah. Shah said the group had 18 or 19 members and "police have so far arrested only eight, the rest are still at large."
Police say they also have arrested Jund-Allahâs leader Ata-ur-Rahman, also known as Omar or Ibrahim. Those interested in the war against terror had seen Jund-Allahâs name before on CDs propagating al-Qaida ideology and often distributed free at various mosques in Pakistan. But it is the first time that Jund-Allah has been associated with terrorist attacks. But Pakistani law enforcement agencies are not just worried about the missing members of Jund-Allah. "We are more concerned about the groups that we do not know about, dozens of little Jund-Allahs spread across the city," says a senior intelligence official who did not want to be identified. After the arrests, Pakistanâs Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat said police had "broken the backbone of" the group responsible for most of the terror attacks carried out in Karachi during the last six months. But investigations conducted by UPI show, the arrests have only exposed one of dozens of terror cells al-Qaida and Taliban operatives and their supporters are running in Karachi.
With a population of more than 15 million, Karachi is Pakistanâs largest city and the commercial hub. During the last 20 years, it also has become the headquarters of regional terrorist groups and drug gangs. It all started after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, when the United States and its allies, including Pakistan, helped establish dozens of armed groups to fight the Soviet occupiers. Most of these groups were based in Pakistan and returned to their hideouts after carrying out hit-and-run attacks inside Afghanistan. Almost all major groups had offices in Karachi, the regionâs only all-weather port, where arms shipments from the West arrived. Some of these groups were also involved in drug trafficking. Since they were using the money they raised from this lucrative trade for financing their wars against the Soviets, both the Americans and the Pakistanis ignored them. Some of the money from this trade and the weapons brought for Afghanistan stayed in Karachi. The weapons were often sold to dozens of ethnic and sectarian groups who also appeared on the scene during the Afghan war.
The Afghan war had two immediate affects on Karachi, groups that were using sticks and bricks to fight with each other now had access to AK-47 assault rifles and they too tapped into the drug money to finance their own private wars. "With the help of the drug mafia, they established a subterranean network, which is still intact," says a retired official of the Pakistani military agency, ISI. "So, when al-Qaida appeared on the scene, it simply connected to this network," the official said. Al-Qaidaâs need to develop its links to Karachiâs underworld further increased after December 2001, when U.S. forces defeated its Taliban patrons in neighboring Afghanistan, taking away the training camps and bases it had established in that country.
The first strong evidence of al-Qaidaâs presence in Karachi came more than two years ago when its operatives kidnapped and later beheaded American journalist Daniel Pearl. The group identified itself as Harkat-ul-Mujahedin-e-Alami, the international movement of holy warriors. "But when we started arresting its people, we discovered their links to known al-Qaida operatives," says Shah, the Karachi police chief. "We arrested almost all known members of this group." Although police interrogated Harkat men for months, the interrogation did not lead to the discovery of other al-Qaida cells in Karachi. An al-Qaida training manual, discovered and published by UPI in February, shows why. "Thereâs no need for one group to be aware of the existence of other groups. Group leaders should never contact each other. Members of one group should not even know that there are other groups operating in the area," says the manual. "If one group is busted, other groups should immediately become inactive and wait to see how much information police have retrieved from the busted groups before resuming their activities."
"No body should contact the nazm (the executive), if they need your help, they will contact you. There is no need to disclose your real identities and personal details to other members of the group," says the manual while explaining how to deal with police interrogation and how to work after the defeat of the Taliban in Afghanistan. "No place is safe, not even in a Muslim country. The enemy has access to all Muslim governments, their agencies and their data. So we must never forget that we are living in hostile conditions all the time," the manual says. Working on these instructions, all al-Qaida cells in Karachi went underground after the busting of Harkat-ul-Mujahedin-e-Alami. "After assessing the damage and securing their tracks, they soon resurfaced," says a senior official of the Karachi police. "Although we did not know that there was an organization called Jund-Allah, it was already working secretly," said the Karachi police chief, Shah. Pakistani police say that Jund-Allah is more radical than the Harakat if that is possible. When al-Qaida brought Jund-Allah on the scene, it also introduced suicide bombing. The first suicide bombing in Karachi was that of the French engineers on May 8, 2002. Since then, it was repeated on several occasions. The latest suicide attacks were on two Shiite mosques in Karachi. The first one killed 15 people on May 7 and the second, on May 31, killed 16. About a dozen more died later of wounds sustained in the attack or in riots that followed the bombing.
al Qaeda is giving the Paleos a run for #1 in suicide bombings.
The Taliban and their supporters, like Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, attack the Shiites because the worldâs only Shiite state, Iran, opposed the Taliban government in Afghanistan. They also see the Shiite as heretics. Since Sept. 11, 2001, Pakistani intelligence agencies have either arrested or killed most leading members of this group and until recently they believed the group no longer had a central figure and an organization setup. They have been proven wrong. Pakistani intelligence officials, who spoke with UPI, said that they now have discovered a new leader of this group called Mufti Eid Mohammed. A prayer leader in eastern Karachi suburb of Malir, Mufti disappeared several years ago. They do not even have a picture of this elusive person but believe that he has played a key role in recent terrorist attacks. Badiani worked with him before he was arrested. Police in Pakistan are also bracing themselves for a new wave of suicide bombings, this time by female bombers. They say that a woman named as Mrs. Abdullah is leading this new cell of suicide bombers. She is the widow of an Uzbek terrorist who was killed in a recent military operation by Pakistani troops and she is now training female suicide-bombers to avenge her husbandâs death, police said.
There are certain common elements in the new terror groups emerging in Pakistan. All of them, at one stage or another, have been trained in Afghanistan, mostly at al-Qaida camps, many of their members are ethnic Pashtuns from the areas bordering Afghanistan and have lost close relatives and friends in the anti-terror war. "They all seem to believe that they have been wronged and they use this to justify giving away their lives in suicide attacks," said a Pakistani intelligence officer. Pakistani investigators say the terrorists are turning to bombing as their favorite method because itâs becoming increasingly difficult for them to get other weapons. "There is no more a Taliban government in Afghanistan and nobody else in the region is interested in arming them," said the intelligence officer. "So they go for the easiest option, making bombs. They can make a powerful explosive with 200-250 aspirin tablets and some commercial chemicals easily available in the market. For timers, they use the gadget that comes with washing machines," said the Pakistani intelligence officer.
Steve Den Beste correctly describes them as "smart bombs", requiring very little capital with an intelligent guidance system.
Pakistani investigators also point out links between terrorist attacks in Karachi and the military operation against al-Qaida in the northwestern tribal belt along Afghanistanâs border. May 7, when the first Shiite mosque was bombed in Pakistan, was also the deadline for al-Qaida fighters in the tribal belt to surrender to the Pakistani military. On May 26, when a bomb exploded outside a school in Karachi, the governor of the Northwest Frontier Province announced that negotiations with al-Qaida suspects were useless and Pakistan was preparing for a military action.
oh, you think?
A pro-Taliban Sunni cleric was killed on May 30, days before he was expected to issue an edict about the fight between the Pakistan army and the al-Qaida suspects in the tribal belt. Pakistani officials say that Shamzai was expected to urge the tribesmen not to fight the army.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 10:01:46 AM ||
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#1
The heat from counterterrorism forces is not good for the smooth operation of the drug business. Maybe someone could foment a war between the drug cartels and the jihadis.
A Jordanian military court today convicted 15 men â all but one of whom remains at large â for a terror conspiracy targeting American and Israeli interests as well as Western tourists. The court said it found Ahmad Mahmoud Saleh al-Riyati, 34, to be the mastermind of the terror cell linked to al-Qaida and Ansar al-Islam militant groups. Al-Riyati, the only suspect in custody, was jailed for 15 years, but the sentence was immediately cut in half to give him another chance in life, the court said. Eight of the other 14 â 12 of them Jordanians and two Iraqis â were sentenced to 15 years with hard labour.
The court formally dropped charges against the remaining six, saying they had died. It did not say how, but military prosecution sources have said they were killed battling American forces in Iraq. The indictment said al-Qaida and Ansar al-Islam had recruited al-Riyati and his cell to conduct terror attacks against US and Israeli interests in Jordan as well as to attack Western tourists and assassinate top Jordanian intelligence officers. Details of the plots were not revealed.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:55:07 AM ||
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Dozens of militants raided a Pakistani paramilitary checkpoint near the Afghan border Wednesday, triggering a gun battle that killed two militants and one soldier, military sources said. The gun battle lasted three hours after the overnight attack by between 70 and 80 militants on the checkpoint at Ladha in South Waziristan tribal region, a military official said on condition of anonymity. Five soldiers were wounded. âThey attacked the post and physically occupied it. We sent our people and they got that post back,â the official said. He said two militants and one soldier were killed. The army spokesman was not immediately available for comment, but the attack was confirmed by other officials. Ladha is about 30 kilometres north of Wana, the main town in South Waziristan, where thousands of troops are deployed. It is about the same distance to the southwest of the scene of last weekâs military operation.
I guess I was wrong. The Bad Guyz went southwest instead of north...
A government official in Wana said on condition of anonymity that the attackers fired rockets in their assault on the checkpoint and that five paramilitary soldiers were injured in the attack. He said the bodies of the dead militants, who appeared to be Uzbeks, have been moved to the base in Ladha. In a statement Tuesday, the army vowed the militants would be âeliminatedâ unless they surrendered to the government.
I don't think the idea's caught on yet, though...
In a separate attack early Wednesday, three rockets were fired at a government building in Sarwokai, about 50 kilometres east of Wana, but missed the target. No one was injured.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:51:12 AM ||
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An explosion in the northern Afghan town of Kunduz killed two Afghan children and two Afghan men on Wednesday, missing the Nato peacekeepers who were apparently its intended target, officials said. The blast was possibly triggered by a remote controlled device as a vehicle from a Nato Provincial Reconstruction Team passed along a crowded road in the centre of the city, Afghan officials said. The past 24 hours have also seen the killing of a senior provincial official in southern Afghanistan, an attack that coincided with a visit to Washington by President Hamid Karzai for talks with US President George W Bush to discuss the battle against Islamic militants and upcoming elections.
An Afghan driver of the reconstruction team vehicle was among those killed, General Mohammad Dawood, the senior military commander in Kunduz, told reporters. No German troops from the team in Kunduz were in the car at the time of the blast. "Initial reports indicate that four people have been killed in this explosion," Dawood said. Nine Afghans, several of them children, were wounded, residents said. No peacekeepers were hurt, said a spokesman for the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force. Kunduz Governor Mohmmad Omar said an explosive device was placed under a kiosk in Wednesdayâs attack and the reconstruction team car could have been the target.
Wednesdayâs blast came hours after a rocket hit a military base near the main base of the Nato-led peacekeepers in the capital, Kabul, on Tuesday evening, wounding an Afghan soldier. A local employee of an international aid agency was wounded on Wednesday in a blast in front of its office in Faizabad, capital of the province of the same name, a Western aid worker said, without giving more details.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:48:03 AM ||
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Radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr sent his fighters home on Wednesday in what may mark the end of a 10-week revolt against U.S.-led forces that once engulfed southern Iraq and Shiâite Islamâs holiest shrines. With the formal end of U.S.-led occupation just two weeks away, Sadr issued a statement from his base in Najaf calling on his Mehdi Army militiamen to go home. "Each of the individuals of the Mehdi Army, the loyalists who made sacrifices...should return to their governorates to do their duty," the statement said.
Other reports say he only told those who didn't live in Najaf to go home, gives him a cover story if they don't leave.
That call came a day after President Bush said the United States would not oppose a political role for Sadr -- only weeks after branding him an anti-democratic thug. Sadrâs office sent a letter to the Shiâite religious establishment on Wednesday, saying Iraqi police would be welcome back in his stronghold of Kufa, near Najaf, where he has frequently delivered fiery anti-American sermons. Some U.S. officials insist Sadr must face Iraqi justice in connection with the killing of a moderate cleric hacked to death in a Najaf shrine soon after last yearâs U.S. invasion. But Sadrâs unexpected flexibility seems to have opened political doors just before planned June 30 handover. Interim President Ghazi al-Yawar said Sadrâs "smart move" could enable him to take part in mainstream politics. Under a deal announced by the interim government this month, private militias are to be disbanded and members of illegal militias banned from political office for three years.
Despite Bushâs olive branch for Sadr, some U.S. officials say Sadr should be barred from politics. "There is an Iraqi arrest warrant issued against Moqtada al-Sadr that ties him to a brutal murder, and I donât see how he would be eligible for political office before that matter is resolved," U.S. spokesman Dan Senor said on Tuesday. National elections are due to be held by January 31 under a U.S.-backed plan for Iraqâs political transition. As Iraqi leaders brace for the challenge of running a country suffering from violence and economic hardships, it seems Sadr may keep the interim government guessing. "Sayyed Moqtada al-Sadr enters into political matters. But this does not mean he will enter elections," Sadrâs spokesman Qais al-Khazali told Reuters on Wednesday. "Our position is clear, Sadrâs entry into politics will not be direct but we have ideas...There are no nominees or names suggested."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:23:11 AM ||
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#1
"Each of the individuals of the Mehdi Army, the loyalists who made sacrifices...should return to their governorates to do their duty," the statement said.
"Their duty" being to sit and wait for another opportunity to try to seize power, no doubt.
#2
That call came a day after President Bush said the United States would not oppose a political role for Sadr
He said WHAT?
Posted by: Charles ||
06/16/2004 10:34 Comments ||
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#3
Charles, I love the way we're playing this guy. Sure, we could arrest him as originally planned, but that would just make him a continuing hero and thus a thorn in our side. What we've done instead is something far worse to an Arab -- we've made him a joke, a laughingstock to his people. The number of guys who can say to Sadr, "sure, boss, I'll get right on it" with a straight face has dwindled dramatically.
Sadr's a rube and a joke, and I wouldn't be surprised to see both the transitional government and the US authority to say and do things that subtly reinforce that over the next few months.
There are more effective ways to dispatch your enemies, sometimes, than just shooting them.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/16/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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#4
Steve, I disagree. He should be arrested and put on trial... THAT would be worse for an arab, especially a mullah.
We need to break the unwritten rule that mullahs are immune to the law and we need to show what happens when you oppose us, no matter who you are. You're ass ends up dead or in jail.
What makes you think, Steve, that "sure you can indeed arrest him as originally planned"? It seems to me you are simple labelling a defeat as "victory", if Sadr achieved his own goal of recognition as a power, and the US hasn't achieved its own goal of destroying him.
Oh, yeah, sure, you made him a "laughingstock". And once the US army leaves the cities, the Sadr goons will be back to killing people and nobody will be doing much laughing anymore.
He should be arrested and put on trial... THAT would be worse for an arab, especially a mullah. We need to break the unwritten rule that mullahs are immune to the law and we need to show what happens when you oppose us, no matter who you are. You're ass ends up dead or in jail.
I agree, DPA. Clerical garb should not provide the least armor against criminal charges. Sadr represents all that has gone wrong with the Iraqi campaign. There must not be any redefinition of critical parameters. Accomplice to murder must remain such and continue to merit apprehension and trial, nothing less.
It is essential that we clearly demonstrate to Islam as a whole that its most radical clerics will no longer find any cloak of religious protection when it comes to spewing violent rhetoric and inciting terrorism. We must tear away the mask of piety from these criminals post haste if we expect to advance moderate Islamic interests.
The only alternative is to let such militant elements fester (as we have already been doing) until we are then obliged to wipe all Islam as one entirely infected organism. I do not think that sort of course is either fair or called for, as yet.
#9
Unfortunately, there are uncomfortable parallels in the western world to this example (if true) of clerical garb providing cover to criminal misdeeds (see Catholic Church).
#10
Unfortunately, there are uncomfortable parallels in the western world to this example (if true) of clerical garb providing cover to criminal misdeeds (see Catholic Church).
Recent overemphasis on religiosity in the United States has manifested as a catastrophic reticence with regard to labeling militant Islam for what it truly is. Namely, a violent political organization with criminal intent. This represents a vast disservice to both US and world interests and has placed our troops in additional and entirely unnecessary danger.
#11
this is neither victory nor defeat. It is however, perhaps a way forward.
It is NOT up to the US to decide what to about Sadr. He killed an IRAQI, in IRAQ. It is upto the SOVEREIGN goverment of IRAQ to decide what to do with him. We have never denied that, not since we started pursuing him in April.
We have weakened him enough to give the new govt a chance on June 30. After that they need to decide how to play him, how to deal with the tradeoffs between eliminating the possibility of revolt in the South on the one hand, and the weakening of rule of law in letting a political murder go unpunished on the other? They NEED to rely more on their own personnel, and wean themselves from reliance on US troops, for their own good (and ours too I might add) Thats much easier if they can focus on one domestic enemy at a time. On the other end if Sadr gets away with the al khoei killing, will that lead to other political murders, or will it be seen as a oneoff, in the chaos following the fall of Saddam? Thats a subtle question, and one the locals have to solve (though I am sure Allawi will receive American advice on this - which he may or may not take)They may end up giving him a token punishment, or coming up with some kind of of political deal - perhaps some kind of probation. AFAIK all Bush said was that it was upto Iraqis to decide, which is true, and has always been true.
Pursuing the New Iraq is more important than killing one SOB mullah.
#12
mjh: That comes down either to local bishops who don't want political scandal on their hands -- or people who believe too much in the power of redemption ... or fear a "whistleblow" on the way out ...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
06/16/2004 13:33 Comments ||
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#13
once the US does leave iran will be dealt with and this sadr fellow will have lost his outside support..he is really a two-bit punk..with a narrow following in country...
Aris - taking care of iran will also benefit your pet project - syria
Posted by: Dan ||
06/16/2004 13:39 Comments ||
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#14
"Pursuing the New Iraq is more important than killing one SOB mullah."
I look at the Al Sadr Saga as an exercise in behavior modification. What has he gained, overall? He's gotten hundreds of his "Al-Mahdi Army" killed, and all he has to show for it is what he could have had months ago if only he'd refrained from acting like a roaring asshole.
And as far as I can tell, he hasn't gained one damn thing more than that.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
06/16/2004 13:48 Comments ||
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#15
Pursuing the New Iraq is more important than killing one SOB mullah.
While you make some excellent points, Liberalhawk, I am reluctant to agree fully. If Sadr is given any sort of pass by the US or Iraq, it will signal a general willingness to countenance militant Islam and theocracy in general.
Since Sadr has led violent assaults against American troops, there is no reason for us not to go after him with all the vigor that Iraq appears to lack. It would be an approprite parting gift for us to hand Sadr over to the new Iraqi government, along with Saddam, so that both of these maggots could go on trial for their respective crimes.
Again, we need to dramatically demonstrate that tyrants, whether they be in the form of dictators or beturbaned mullahs shall always represent interests antithetical to democracy. Anything less is a disservice to our's and Iraq's interests.
#16
Dan, when you stop being an idiot you'll see that Syria is not "my" pet project and that this isn't a personal contest. Iran is just as crucial a target as Syria and as big a supporter of terrorism -- Syria would simply have been the easiest target to defeat.
But all the repetitions of "Iran will be dealt with" I see with contempt. What in the world has made you think that it will indeed be so dealt with? Not even Sadr was managed to be "dealt with", and you think US has the forces and the will to take on Iran?
#17
You know aris - screw you ..i am done with you - no more bandwith from me...you cannot have a conversation without some bullshit deragatory statement..if you were in the states and said this face to face you'd have a fist through your nose...
Posted by: Dan ||
06/16/2004 14:59 Comments ||
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#18
so now folks -according to our greek asshole iran is bigger power than the US and we'd had better watch out..
Posted by: Dan ||
06/16/2004 15:01 Comments ||
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#19
Dan, just look at it this way: at least he's not family. Can you imagine what a titanic pain in the ass it must be to put up with that nonstop, neurotic complaining?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
06/16/2004 15:25 Comments ||
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#20
you cannot have a conversation without some bullshit deragatory statement..
Apologies for this thread's bullshit deragatory statement, but I have no incentive to forget the deragatory statement of earlier threads either. As you saw fit to refer back to Tuesday's the Syria thread, I saw no reason to forget the "your a hypocrite. Like I said your a hypocrite" and various other insults of that thread either. Conversations don't hang in a vacuum, nor is a thread a clean slate at its beginning, especially when you chose not to make it one.
#22
And as for "Iran being a bigger power than the USA", I have no obligation to comment on this or anything else that you pulled out of your ass and then tried to attribute to me.
Plain fact remains that USA doesn't currently have the available power and/or will to take on Iran -- it didn't even have the available power and/or will to capture or kill Sadr.
#23
I'm going to take the liberty of making a modest suggestion:
This sort of schoolyard squabbling really drags down the tone of this place. Aris, gratuitous personal insults merely ill-dignify whatever point your are trying to convey, however valid it may or may not be.
Dan, please try to remember the words of Issac Asimov:
#24
we certainly have the power to take more aggressive measures in Kufa, Najaf, etc. Whethter Sadr could (or would) then go underground a la Zarqawi, etc I dont know. Assuming he stays above ground we certainly have the force in Iraq to capture him.
However we do not, because we are fighting a POLITICAL war in Iraq (to the disappointment of Tacitus, Peters, and some other conservative commentators) Our goal is NOT to create desolation and call it peace - its to achieve something that will result in long term gains in the hearts and minds struggle in the Islamic world. While crushing a fundie like Tater is good for that goal, letting the Iraqis handle him is rather better, EVEN if they choose not to crush him. IF they can succeed in dragging him into the messiness of democratic politics, they have defeated the ideology he once stood for, even if the man remains. If they fail, of course, than they fail. But all courses in war and politics are filled with risk. Leaving the decision to the locals is filled with risk, but even more so is taking all upon ourselves (and need i add, so would have been allowing SH to remain in power)
As for Iran, I dont particularly think we have the ability to do in Iran what we did in Iraq. And we wouldnt have EVEN if we had never gone into Iraq. That is to invade and change regimes by force. Iran is a big place, and while now there is probably more proUS sentiment than in Iraq pre-March 2003, for a variety of reasons that would dissipate more quickly on an invasion. Even if things were no worse in terms of sentiment than in Iraq, we'd need surely need several hundred thousand troops to occupy a country the size of Iran.
Fortunately "dealing" with Iran doesnt mean doing the above. What it DOES mean depends on the pace of the Iranian nuclear program. IF it becomes necessary to eliminate it, and if diplomatic and economic pressure fails(or cannot be tried due to undermining by the usual suspects) than what would be involved would be a surgical strike against nuclear facilities using air power and special forces - Osirak writ large. If otoh, we have the luxury of time, than the goal would be the gradual undermining of the Iranian regime leading to a revolution.
Neither of these is really comparable to the war on Sadr of the last two months, although the latter requires that Sadr have been dealt with, one way or the other.
#25
#22 Plain fact remains that USA doesn't currently have the available power and/or will to take on Iran -- it didn't even have the available power and/or will to capture or kill Sadr.
As I mentioned earlier, America's recent overemphasis of religiosity has needlessly constrained our ability to properly identify and pursue Sadr as the simple terrorist criminal that he is. I feel that it's largely the only thing dampening our will to apprehend this thug.
I do not see where it is very critical that Iraq be permitted to deal (or not deal) with Sadr as they see fit. The (admittedly green) Iraqi police's inability to maintain both allegiance and decent crowd control all point up serious deficiencies in the current power structure.
While America cannot be expected to do all of the heavy lifting, we certainly should not have constrained ourselves with such circumspection for any ostensible religious immunity that Sadr has both been unfairly awarded and grossly abused.
As to Iran, while invasion may not be possible, timely destruction of their nuclear facilities is an important objective. Few people, both here and abroad, seem to fully recognize the repercussions that await should Iran gain possession of nuclear weapons.
#24What it DOES mean depends on the pace of the Iranian nuclear program. IF it becomes necessary to eliminate it, and if diplomatic and economic pressure fails(or cannot be tried due to undermining by the usual suspects) than what would be involved would be a surgical strike against nuclear facilities using air power and special forces - Osirak writ large. If otoh, we have the luxury of time, than the goal would be the gradual undermining of the Iranian regime leading to a revolution. Neither of these is really comparable to the war on Sadr of the last two months, although the latter requires that Sadr have been dealt with, one way or the other.
Due to Iran's continuous dissembling and constant deceit over the last several DECADES, I do not see where there is any way to accurately gauge the timeline for their progress towards attaining nuclear armament.
There is no "luxury of time," and North Korea represents a perfect object lesson of what awaits any further delay. The patterns of offense in abuse of power, military belligerence and human rights violations draw similarities between Iran and North Korea that are totally undeniable. They are each taking notes from the same playbook and we would be idiots not to reach the same conclusion.
#26
I agree with Zenster, and am getting a bit nervous about Bush silence on this stuff. Surely he doesn't think IAEA/UN stuff will actually get us anywhere?
#29
I suggest that Iran is, actually, well infiltrated and that there are numerous credible sources available to US intelligence agencies. Available to us, right here at RB / Internet, is the fact that the population is remarkably pro-American as the myriad of Iranian blogs suggests, not to mention a great deal of anecdotal information - recent documentaries, individual accounts, etc. Among the large number of Iranians who do not wish to be oppressed by the Mad Mullahs one can surmise there are, at least, a few with useful access to hard intel on the progress of the Black Hats' rush to become nuclear blackmailers - or to take credit for wiping out Israel.
Thus, IMO, I think there are probably several good reasons not to get too excited - yet. It's an election year, most of our available 'boots' are occupied, and a 'concensus' / casis belli must be established in the public mind to support action before action can be taken, short of an actual crisis should we become aware that they are ready and able to field a missile / guidance / nuke package capable of hitting Israel.
This has been a topic here for a long long time - it seems that the Bush Admin knows where things stand, is checking off the boxes (same as the Iraq War - give the UN yet another chance to prove it's not irrelevant), and is employing the NKor strategy: let them hang themselves in the marketplace of world opinion while they are unable to make good on their wild-eyed threats. The Black Hats are exceptionally inept in diplomatic affairs - something which everyone here can easily recall, I'm sure.
Additionally, I suggest that those with a direct interest, such as Israel, are sharing intel with us - and vice versa. If the threat becomes imminent, Israel has nothing to lose in finding a means of acting unilaterally and I do not for a minute doubt that they would. Fortunately, Bush isn't a Donk Idiot and Israel will not have to do so. In short, if they aren't phreaking out, then neither should we.
#31
whatever aris - i have seen many, many posts were your a total ahole so i know it is not just me..i have also seen many post where people warned me not even bother with you..hard headed me of course never listened...but i am belatedly heading that well deserved advise...
Posted by: Dan ||
06/16/2004 18:24 Comments ||
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#32
It hit me after I posted this that my last sentence in #29 is fatally flawed. Though not perfect, I think that Israeli operational security is probably as good as it gets, period. If they felt the threat was imminent, they wouldn't say diddley-squat, themselves. We might act as proxy and make a lot of noise, but the Israelis? Nope, not a peep... the first we would know of it would be the post-strike press reports.
Spending too much time on Rantburg??* Or worrying about Putin?? You should be celebrating!! Greece is going through in Euro 2004! A win over Russia will guarantee a playoff spot.
*You can never spend too much time on Rantburg, but the laws of economics (or zero-sum games) still apply!!
Posted by: Rafael ||
06/16/2004 18:39 Comments ||
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#34
Actually even a tie with Russia guarantees that we pass -- and even if we lose from Russia we will still pass as long as Spain doesn't lose from Portugal. Greek team did better than anyone expected in the last two games. :-)
#35
.com, while it is somewhat comforting to see such a degree of solid calculation regarding the Iranian crisis, I must take issue over a couple of your conclusions.
Available to us, right here at RB / Internet, is the fact that the population is remarkably pro-American as the myriad of Iranian blogs suggests, not to mention a great deal of anecdotal information - recent documentaries, individual accounts, etc.
Please remember to factor in a component of education when balancing equations about popular support for America in Iran. Those who have the financial resources, knowledge and ability to post those blogs you mention do not represent the majority of Iranians by a long shot.
While I cannot lay claim to inside statistics regarding their demographics, it's fairly safe to say that, precisely due to lack of education, access and ability, a majority (i.e., +50%) of Iranians may well side with the mullahs, if only out of sheer unadulterated fundamentalist ignorance.
It is very tempting to think that postings showing sympathy by Iran's (relatively speaking) elite are good news for America, but this may just as easily not be so.
I am also obliged to take issue with your assessment of Israel's role as the "canary in the mineshaft."
While Mossad's skills and penetration of regional activity are nothing to sneeze at, Israel does not possess anything remotely approaching those intelligence assets enjoyed by the United States.
Such sensing capabilities as orbital synthetic aperture side scanning look-down radar (capable of deep penetration geological structure profiling) and our fabulous keyhole KH birds are lightyears beyond what Israel deploys at this time. For the nonce, we'll avoid speculating upon neutron emission detectors and other remote sensing technologies.
We may well have significant evidence of Iranian nuclear arms progress that cannot be shared with Israel, if only to conceal the true extent of our ability in probing both Iranian and Israeli installations alike. This could well be what is preventing us from sharing such intelligence that might otherwise propel Israel towards more definitive action.
.com, I truly appreciate your dedicated attempts to provide what you consider to be factual analysis on many issues, even besides Iran. It is quite enjoyable to see someone of ability focus their direct experience and faculties upon unraveling the skein of tortuous Mid-East political intrigue.
I would like to see how you compensate for the caveats I have mentioned in your own previous assessments.
#36
Zen, I work with numerous Iranian-American engineers (seems to have been a REALLY popular major), and even on their visits back to family in Iran, they report a majority does like Amerca. The education angle you note is a BIG factor, with those uneducated, untrained (and barely employable) relying largely on the mullahs for information, direction and work.... We could foment rebellion, and we should.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/16/2004 22:05 Comments ||
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#37
Zen - 'compensate'? C'mon.
You post what you think and I post what I think. You base yours on what you know and so do I. There is obvious overlap, though our assessments of the reliability of the component bits of 'evidence' are our individual judgements. If there were something to "prove" one view or the other, and I had it at my fingertips, I would've posted it. I assume the same is true for you. And that would've been that, no? Take issue all you like with anything I post.
As I'm sure you would agree, the point is to get at the truth of the matter for each thread topic.
I earnestly hope that my assessment is correct, but I didn't post it because it feels good, I did it because I believe it is the rational assessment of the situation. The thread lacked the information that I posted, so I posted it. That's about it. Disprove, refine, augment, offer a comprehensive alternative - I will happily replace bits and pieces of mine with yours where I find the logic and evidence to be better! This is serious - and you apparently view aspects of my post as lacking. Fine. Nobody 'wins' unless the Mullahs are stopped. If you want an argument, you're shit out of luck.
#38
BTW, anecdotal 'evidence' I posted here confirmed many other sources, such as personal friends, etc, such as Frank G pointed out. Iran is not the predominantly illiterate population you imply, IMHO. Discount if you prefer, but I have zero reason to disbelieve the people I know personally and, not to belabor the point, if I thought them disingenous and untrustworthy, I wouldn't associate with them. ;-)
His loss ratios were hideous. 3-5 incidents per day. 1-2 Americans dead per day, max average. 10 wounded, max average. BUT - 25+ Iraqi civilians per day wounded or killed.
So, on average per attack, he is getting 2 US Casualties, but 8 innocent locals.
For some reason the US press doesnt report it, but the Madhi and Muj are losing 2-3 dead and 10-12 wounder PER INCIDENT. thats 6-10 dead, 40-80 wounded DAILY.
Run the numbers.
He's causing a hell of a lot of loss of "good will" from the locals by killing them, not really doing much damage to the US forces, and is bleeding his "Army" dry. Thats in addition to the association of lots of former local thugs and criminals with the Sadr name, doing what they do best: raping, mugging and stealing.
Al-Jazeera satellite channel today aired a videotape purportedly showing armed Al-Qaeda fighters during a military exercise and attacking a position in Afghanistan. A short sequence of film, which the station said it obtained in Islamabad, initially shows a man, identified as "Abu Laith, the Libyan, an Al-Qaeda official in Afghanistan", addressing militiamen. During the night-time meeting, a bearded and bespectacled Abu Laith is seen surrounded by men seated on the ground "in Afghanistan or in a tribal region of Pakistan, before a new day of training," Al-Jazeeraâs correspondent Ahmed Zidane said. Thatâd be Abu Leith al-Libi, though itâs certainly been quite awhile since weâve heard from him.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:44:01 AM ||
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Too bad they don't train with LIVE homicide belts.
Posted by: Chris W. ||
06/16/2004 11:53 Comments ||
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POLICE in Pakistan have arrested a ninth alleged member of a newly-identified al-Qaeda-trained terror group accused of trying to assassinate a top army commander, an official said today. Shahzad Talha, who is suspected of taking part in last weekâs attempted assassination of Karachiâs army commander, was picked up yesterday in a raid on an apartment block in Karachiâs eastern suburbs. "He is a key member of the groupâs militant wing, who was wanted in the attack on the army (commanderâs) convoy and other terrorist activities," police investigator Manzoor Mughal said. The group, named Jund Allah ("Godâs Brigade"), was trained at an al-Qaeda camp in the tribal district of South Waziristan near the Afghan border, officials have said. "Police are looking for other members of the group and we are confident of smashing the group before it takes roots," Mughal said. Talha will be produced in an anti-terrorism court later today.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
06/16/2004 9:38:38 AM ||
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Libya's state-controlled newspapers denounced the Saudi royal family on Tuesday, blaming it for recent reports that accused Libya of plotting to assassinate the Saudi crown prince. The alleged plot, reported in American media last week, was quickly denied by Libyan Foreign Minister Abdel-Rahman Shalqam. The reports said the plot had been revealed by an American Muslim leader jailed on charges of illegal financial dealings with Libya, and by a former Libyan intelligence officer in Saudi custody. President Bush confirmed U.S. investigators are looking into the alleged plot to kill Crown Prince Abdullah, who is the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia as King Fahd is senile ailing.
``Saudi Arabia is looking for a hook on which to hang its problems and for scapegoats for its crises,'' Libya's Azzahf Akhdar said in an editorial Tuesday. It was referring to the series of Islamic terror attacks that have shaken the kingdom during the past 13 months. ``The royal family is up to its ears in spreading evil and incubating terrorists in the world,'' the newspaper added, an apparent reference to the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 attacks were Saudis. Referring to the Saudi royal family, the paper said: ``The Al Saud family exceeded its expiration date centuries ago. It must realize that lies will not save it from the crisis it is experiencing now.''
Wish I had said that
Al-Shams newspaper said Saudi citizens were suffering ``great oppression under the authoritarian royal family.'' Relations between Libya and Saudi Arabia reached a low point in March 2003 when Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and Abdullah traded insults at an Arab summit. Their exchange was broadcast live on television.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/16/2004 9:39:14 AM ||
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I think the revelation/allegation of an assassination plot against Crown Prince Abdullah is a lower point than trading insults at a summit.
Posted by: john bragg ||
06/16/2004 11:21 Comments ||
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I still think Big Mo is really double oh nineteen.
From South Asia Analysis Group
The paramilitary Rangers of Karachi announced on June 14,2004, the arrest of one Dawood Badini , said to be of the Sunni extremist Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LEJ), on a charge of being responsible for two suicide bombings in Quetta in Balochistan in the last two years, which killed over 100 Shias, many of them belonging to the Hazara tribe.They claimed that he was also responsible for the assassination of 12 Shia police recruits in Quetta on June 8 last year. They have projected him as the kingpin of the LEJ network in Balochistan. Separately,eight suspects allegedly involved in the attack on the convoy of Lt-Gen Ahsan Saleem Hyat, the Karachi Corps Commander, on June 10 and one suspect (Gul Hasan of the LEJ) allegedly involved in organising suicide attacks on Shias in the Hyderi mosque and Imambargah Ali Raza of Karachi last month were produced before the Karachi Anti-Terrorism Court (ATC) on June 14. It remanded them to police custody for two weeks. The eight suspects said to have been involved in the attack on the convoy of the Corps Commander were described by the Police as belonging to a hitherto unknown organisation called Jundullah (Army of Allah). [The eight are named.] .... .âThe Jundullah group is a new terror group which has links with Al Qaeda, and their members have been trained in Wana, (the capital of South Waziristan in the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas ),â the Inspector-General of Police of Karachi Kamal Shah told reporters. He said that at least 20 members of the Jundullah had been identified and there could be more. They were all from Karachi. ...
On the night of June 13, the Interior Minister also announced the arrest by the Karachi Police of one Massob Arooshi, described as the nephew of Khalid Sheikh Mohammad (KSM), who used to be projected by the Americans as the mastermind of the 9/11 terrorist strikes in the USA. Masoob Arooshi was reportedly arrested from the house of one Abbas Khan, a former divisional engineer of the Pakistan Telecommunication Company Limited, who is stated to be the father of Javed Abbas, a serving Deputy Superintendent of Police (DySP) of Sindh. .... a Shia cleric from Gilgit working in Karachi tipped off the police about the presence of Arooshi in the house of Abbas Khan. ....
... the Al Qaeda leadership suspect that the Shia members of the Hazara community in Balochistan and of the Kashmiri community in Gilgit in the Northern Areas (NA) had been collaborating with the US intelligence in its hunt for the dregs of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. .... Many in Karachi claim that Masoob Arooshi was actually arrested on a tip off by the US authorities, who, in turn, got their information from the Shia cleric. They say the Shias suspect that the Pakistani Police is mixed up with the LEJ and other elements of Osama bin Ladenâs International Islamic Front (IIF) and would not, therefore, take their information to the Pakistani Police. They would prefer giving their information to US officials since they feel that the US officials would ensure that the person pointed out by them is arrested by the Pakistani authorities. Interestingly, after the arrests in Karachi, the Pakistani authorities announced the end of the joint operations by the Army and the Air Force against the dregs of Al Qaeda and the IIF in the South Waziristan area with effect from June 14. ...
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/16/2004 9:00:58 AM ||
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I meant to put this on page 1.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/16/2004 9:01 Comments ||
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JENIN: Israeli forces shot dead a wanted Palestinian militant and arrested several others in the West Bank city of Jenin on Wednesday. The witnesses said an Israeli undercover unit entered the city in the early morning hours and cornered a number of activists in a restaurant where they shot dead 25-year-old Islamic Jihad member Majed al-Saadi. The Israeli army had no immediate comment.
"Stick 'em up, nobody move! BANG He moved, any one else want some?"
Posted by: Steve ||
06/16/2004 8:43:54 AM ||
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...."Activist".....
Haaahahahahahahahaaaaaaa, what a crock. At least the guy got what was coming to him.
KABUL: A US base for troops hunting militants in southeastern Afghanistan came under rocket attack in southeastern Afghanistan but no one was injured, a US military official said Wednesday. Unknown attackers fired more than ten rockets over the US base in Khost province on Sunday, Lieutenant Colonel Tucker Mansager told a news briefing in Kabul. No coalition soldiers were hurt in the attack and Mansager was unable to say who might have been behind it.
Let's see, they shot 0 for 10+, had to be Hek's boys.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/16/2004 8:40:47 AM ||
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The Arabs and Euros have cut off the money tap to the Paleos. Why haven't the Americans?
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/16/2004 8:16 Comments ||
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WTF?! Why is the US sending any money anywhere near Palestine? The whole place and everything in it is terrorist-sponsored. Cut 'em off and demand a refund.
Sudanese Peoples Liberation Movement/Army (SPLM/A) chairman John Garang said the deal could be sealed in August or early September. Campaigning in Southern Sudan for support of the six protocols recently signed between SPLM/A and Khartoum Government, Dr Garang said only two issues remained-an international monitoring guarantee and implementation procedure-before the two warring sides could totally bid farewell to the 21-year-old war. Dr Garang, who officially launched a workshop to prepare final draft on governance for Southern Sudan at the Christian Women Empowerment Program Hall in Yei Town last weekend, said the draft would enable locals make informed choices during a referendum on whether the region should secede from the larger Sudan.
It would also ensure efficient delivery of services to Southern Sudanese people and the regionâs government did not collapse in case the agreement reached in Naivasha was disowned. Saying the taste of food was in the eating, Dr Garang ruled out fears that the SPLM/A would breach the peace agreement.
Posted by: tipper ||
06/16/2004 5:42:38 AM ||
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I lack all interest in his hinting. I picture Mimi, from the Drew Carrey Show, standing on stage in her birthday suit hinting that she might taker her burret off. How provocative. Allow me to pause and upchuck.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/17/2004 0:27 Comments ||
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#2
Maybe that last comment should be deleted. It is leaving an "aftertaste" visual for me that is most unpleasant.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
06/17/2004 0:30 Comments ||
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WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush insisted Tuesday he must have assurances Saddam Hussein will stay in jail and not return to power before releasing him to Iraq's interim government, refusing to commit to the June 30 timetable envisioned by Iraq's new prime minister. Raising concerns about security arrangements once Saddam is out of U.S. custody, Bush said, "He's a killer. He is a thug. He needs to be brought to trial." Bush said it was legitimate to ask the interim government: "How are you going to make sure he stays in jail?"
Bush's reluctance to turn over Saddam raised new questions about the extent of Iraq's authority when the interim government claims sovereignty from the U.S.-led coalition on June 30. Bush has encountered widespread skepticism from world leaders about whether the United States truly intends to relinquish control, with 135,000 American troops remaining in Iraq to maintain security.
In Baghdad, Iyad Allawi, the interim prime minister, had said the United States would turn over Saddam by the transfer of sovereignty. Saddam has been in U.S. custody at an undisclosed location in Iraq since his capture in December. Salem Chalabi, the Iraqi official in charge of setting up a tribunal to try former government figures, said he expected an arrest warrant filed against Saddam and other former officials before June 30. "We have been working quite hard in the last few days on that, believe me," Chalabi said. Chalabi said he believed Iraqi authorities would have grounds for holding Saddam if and when he was handed over.
How 'bout a few pics of the mass graves?
Bush said Saddam's transfer would depend on "appropriate security" being in place. "I mean, one thing obviously is that we don't want - and I know the Iraqi interim government doesn't want - is there to be lax security and for Saddam Hussein to somehow not stand trial for the horrendous murders and torture that he inflicted upon the Iraqi people," Bush said.
He said he wanted to make sure that "when sovereignty is transferred, Saddam Hussein ... stays in jail." "When we get the right answer - which I'm confident we will, we will work with them to do so - then we'll all be satisfied," Bush said.
In Baghdad, occupation spokesman Dan Senor suggested that U.S. authorities had grounds to hold Saddam far beyond the handover ceremony, saying the Americans could keep him "until the cessation of hostilities," which, he said, weren't expected to stop on June 30. He said the U.S. goal is to put Saddam "into Iraqi hands sometime after June 30."
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said a U.N. Security Council resolution passed last week gave the United States and its occupation partners the right to keep prisoners indefinitely. "It provides authority for the multinational force to continue to detain individuals in Iraq after June 30 and to detain new individuals where it is necessary for security purposes," McClellan said. He refused to say who would decide when it was "necessary for security purposes" for Americans to keep Iraqi prisoners. "Certainly the detention policy is one of the fundamental security issues on which the multinational force and the interim government in Iraq will coordinate closely," McClellan said.
At his news conference, Bush defended Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion that Saddam had "long-established ties" with al-Qaida, an assertion that has been repeatedly challenged by some policy experts and lawmakers. Bush pointed to terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is accused of trying to disrupt the transfer of sovereignty as well as last month's decapitation of American Nicholas Berg. "Zarqawi is the best evidence of connection to al-Qaida affiliates and al-Qaida," the president said.
Keep saying that, and saying it louder.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/16/2004 12:29:30 AM ||
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#1
I don't like giving saddam the light of day. May he never be seen again and his memory be of a dirty hermit pulled from a hole. Please do not let the foul prick get another shot at fame!
#2
I disagree Lucky. Lets warm up Qusay's old plastics shredder and make it pay per view in the US. (Make it free for the Iraqi people. Nothing tells a people they are free quite like watching the former dictator slaughtered.)
Posted by: Ben ||
06/16/2004 4:23 Comments ||
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#3
Lets warm up Qusay's old plastics shredder and make it pay per view in the US.
I'd settle for a couple of car batteries, an ignition coil, and jumper cables.
#4
I saw the news conference with Karazi live and I thought that the press made fools out of themselves. Looked like the harping weenies they are. Considering Sadaam's crimes, Bush's demand seems logical to everyone, except apparently the press.
Plus they had Karazi (sp?) there and they almost ignored him to ask this drivel. Doh! Losers.
And ...worse, I noticed that the networks only carried Bush's comments on this nothing topic - failing to note Karazi's eloquent comments of personal thanks to GW, which were VERY NEWSWORTHY - but apparently too complementary to Bush.
That's why I only watch CNN when I have to. Especially now that their news anchors have dropped in quality from professional to "hoping to improve their resume on CNN in order to qualify for a job on their local news station".
Posted by: B ||
06/16/2004 10:49 Comments ||
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#5
Bush Won't Set Timeline on Saddam Handover
So?
the press made fools out of themselves
B: Exactly! We understand!
The old 7-11 derelict should continue to rot under our auspisces until we are good and damn ready to hand him over!
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Insurgents stepped up their campaign against Iraq's infrastructure Tuesday, blasting two oil pipelines and cutting the country's oil exports. Gunmen also attacked a convoy of civilian contractors, killing some of them. Authorities curbed oil exports through the Persian Gulf by half - from an average of 1.85 million barrels per day to more than 800,000 barrels - after saboteurs blasted the two pipelines on the Faw peninsula of southern Iraq.
The attacks sent temporary ripples through international petroleum markets, but crude futures ended lower. Contracts for U.S. light crude for July delivery rose as high as $38.40 during New York trading, before easing back to settle at $37.19 per barrel, down 40 cents. July contracts for Brent crude rose as high as $35.90 at one point before retreating to $35.29, down 20 cents in London.
Iraqi officials told Dow Jones Newswires they expected to have the damage repaired within a few days. However, petroleum analyst Paul Horsnell, the head of energy research at Barclays Capital in London, said that as a result of the blasts, Iraq would probably fail to meet its export target of 2 million barrels a day for June.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/16/2004 12:26:24 AM ||
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oopps i did not see you had already posted this one.
Oil is the soft target the enemy knows can do some economic damage in both Iraq and Saudi Arabia and just as pump prices had started to drop some.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
06/16/2004 1:30 Comments ||
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(AP) Dozens of angry Shiites accused Fallujah police Tuesday of handing over Shiite truck drivers to Sunni extremists who slaughtered them after they sought refuge at a police station. Iraqi authorities denied the charge.
The allegations were raised at a funeral service in Baghdadâs Firdos Square for six Shiite truck drivers whose bodies were found Monday at a morgue in Ramadi, west of Fallujah. Mourners said the men were delivering a load of tents to the Fallujah Brigade, a force that cooperates with the U.S. military in the restive city 40 miles west of the capital. On their return trip to Baghdad on June 5, the drivers were stopped by armed men who identified themselves as "mujahedeen," fighters who battled Marines to a hudna standstill in April.
The six drivers escaped and sought refuge in a police station, the mourners said. However, they were handed over to a hard-line Sunni cleric because they were Shiites, the mourners said. They were killed after the men who were holding them, one of them a Syrian, demanded $3,000 for each driver, the mourners said. Their families could not afford the ransom.
Col. Adnan Abdul-Rahman, spokesman of the Interior Ministry, described the allegations against the police as "baseless," but confirmed that the killings took place in the Fallujah area. If true, the incident raises new questions about the capability of the Iraqi police to handle security after the handover of sovereignty June 30.
A 12-year-old boy, Mohammed Khudeir, said he was among those allegedly handed over by the police. But the cleric and his followers let him go, apparently because of his age. "We tried to seek police protection, but the policemen handed us over," Khudeir said. He said the cleric "handed us over to a group of Arabs who spoke with non-Iraqi accents. I was tortured for a while, but then I was released." Khudeirâs brother and uncle were slain by the insurgents, he said.
Wonder what Sy Hersh would say about a 12 year old being tortured by US troops? And yet, not a peep about this.
The hard-line cleric to whom the police reportedly handed over the men dismissed claims he was involved in the killings, but said he was ready to stand trial in an Islamic court if credible evidence against him was provided. "I am not a criminal, nor an assassin, nor bloodthirsty," Imam Abdullah al-Janabi told Al-Arabiya television. "I am above these accusations. I cannot stain my hands with a crime."
"'cause I always get Mahmoud here to do my crimes for me!"
One man, Alaa Mery, said that on June 8, he went to Fallujah to negotiate for the hostagesâ release. He said he met with some Syrians who identified themselves as members of the extremist Wahhabist sect predominant in Saudi arabia and said they were holding the drivers because they collaborated with the Americans.
"Fallujah clerics and people made a big fuss regarding Abu Ghraib torture, but now they are killing and mutilating Muslims," Mery said, referring to the American abuse of Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison. "They are not resistance. They are a copy of Saddam."
From your lips to Allan's ears.
Posted by: Anonymous4617 ||
06/16/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Kill'n muslims ya say? Bring on an Islamic court and we'll get to the bottom of this. Prepare the stones Abu!
#2
Let's see...if a Muslim slaughters 5 innocent Muslims that's Okie-Dokie? The Korrupt Koran teaches it is a sin to kill another Muslim....unless there are infidels killed in the process. or unless you are a shit-tite shiite and the other is a sunni/kurd/whatever. or unless you are a sunni and you execute a shit-tite shiite because the families couldn't come up with the money.
That makes perfect sense to me. No wonder the Middle East is a cesspool and Islam is bankrupt.
#3
Ah, now this sounds like real Arabian stuff: kidnapped innocents and ransom demands, casual sectarian killing, corrupt or incapable police, if we had a little clan on clan violence involved it would be the whole shebang. It also sounds like the fearful tale of a 12 yr old Arab boy. There is no difference between the two, when you think about it.
Funny thing is we may now be seeing what the Fallujah settlementBrigade Thingy is worth: nothing. The cops aren't cops - they're Sunnis and probably Ba'athists and either outgunned by the bad guys that were not wiped out in Fallujah back in April-May - or in league with them.
Wahhabi Syrians? Not Qom-inspired, eh? Lol - wotta whole regions of 'tards and losers.
Mebbe the wonderful General Latif should be given 48 hrs to deliver the killers in cuffs - or be dismissed as yet another lamer.
If he fails, recall the Marines camped out in their loose cordon around the city, march the Fallujah Brigade back into the city, since a fair portion came from the jihadis that were allowed to live, issue an ultimatum that contains all of your heart's desires (the killers, all weaponry and ammo, a pony, etc) and give the city 48 hrs to deliver the lot. If they don't, reduce Fallujah to the rubble it should have become back in March-April of 2003.
Ramadi - rinse, repeat.
What was that "wedding party" village where the Syrians were being pipelined into Iraq? Al Qa'im? Rinse, repeat.
I believe that the Sunni Triangle will be a sore spot forever, of exactly this sort of thuggery and sectarian BS, until pacified by brute force.
#4
We will see a lot more of this as Iraqification proceeds. The Sunnis will be the big losers. The Kurds out gun them and the Shia out- number them, and Kurd and Shia territories don't border each other (except for a very small mountainous area).
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/16/2004 5:47 Comments ||
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#5
Wonder what Sy Hersh would say about a 12 year old being tortured by US troops? And yet, not a peep about this.
The article was posted at midnight, and now it's already 7:45 a.m., and still there's not a peep about this from Sy Hersh!
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
06/16/2004 7:45 Comments ||
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when the USMC was pushing into Fallujah, the US was the issue. Now the Fallujah wahabis are the issue - with their internal oppression, their murder of Shiites, etc. Kinda like what happened in Karbala and Najaf - let the baddies hang around till everyone gets sick of them. I think this may be the (default) strategy in Fallujah as well - setting up Fallujah for "handling" by Iraqi forces (NOT the Fallujah thingy) once they are capable enough.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
