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Bahrain frees two held for alleged Al Qaeda links
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
Page 3: Non-WoT
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4 00:00 Trolling for Allan [2] 
1 00:00 Leigh [2] 
2 00:00 Zenster [3] 
4 00:00 Anonymous6411 [3] 
1 00:00 Phil Fraering [2] 
8 00:00 Phil Fraering [2] 
12 00:00 Sock Puppet of Doom [] 
5 00:00 420 [] 
51 00:00 Super Hose [3] 
6 00:00 Zenster [5] 
6 00:00 Shipman [2] 
23 00:00 Zenster [4] 
Page 1: WoT Operations
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Page 2: WoT Background
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6 00:00 JDB [3]
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3 00:00 Alaska Paul [5]
21 00:00 Super Hose [3]
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13 00:00 UFO [2]
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41 00:00 trailing wife [3]
1 00:00 B [5]
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8 00:00 feeling bitchy [5]
2 00:00 Frank G [7]
4 00:00 badanov [2]
Page 5: Russia-Former Soviet Union
1 00:00 trailing wife [4]
-Short Attention Span Theater-
¡Ay Chihuahua! ¡Es El Niño!
WASHINGTON (AP) - A mild El Nino is developing in the Pacific Ocean, climate experts said Friday. El Ninos can affect weather in other areas, sometimes worldwide. "El Nino conditions have developed in the central tropical Pacific and are expected to last through early 2005," Jim Laver, director of the federal Climate Prediction Center, said in a statement. These conditions occur when ocean waters become warmer than normal for the area, causing an increase in cloudiness and affecting air pressure and winds as well. The classic area for El Nino conditions is farther to the east, near the coast of Central and South America, and the agency said it did not yet know if that region will also be affected. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration agency said it will continue to monitor the situation in the tropical Pacific. The climate scientists said sea surface temperatures were more than 0.5 degrees Celsius (1 degree Fahrenheit) above average in the central and western equatorial Pacific during August 2004, the third month of warmer-than-normal readings. While the current warming indicates the early stages of an El Nino, the conditions have not spread oceanwide, which means it is likely to be weaker than the 1997-1998 event, the agency said. El Ninos occur about every four to five years and can last up to 12 to 18 months. The effects can range from drought in Indonesia, Australia and Africa, to storms in California and floods elsewhere. The 1997-98 El Nino caused an estimated $20 billion in damage worldwide.
Posted by: Chris W. || 09/12/2004 11:33:39 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Paging Jim O'Brien, fire up the PR machine.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/12/2004 20:10 Comments || Top||

#2  I believe it was comedian George López that had a routine about this that goes something like;

"Nowadays, there's all this talk about El Niño and La Niña. You gotta know that this is bad news. I just know there's going to be even more trouble. El Niño and La Niña ... come on, it's gonna get even worse. I mean, how many Hispanic families do you know that have only two children?"
Posted by: Zenster || 09/12/2004 21:19 Comments || Top||


Danza Gets New Talk Show, Television Saved
There'll be cooking — he's Italian and he loves to cook — and the occasional fitness segment, something vital to this former pro boxer. "I have never been on camera in 26 years without working out first," says Danza, who in middle age retains a boyish glow and still looks like he could go 15 rounds. There'll be music. And, this being a talk show, there'll be conversation. And not just with stars, but also non-celebrity types — hometown heroes "with a great story to tell," says Danza.
And the world breathes a sigh of relief. Life just got a little better today.
Posted by: Chris W. || 09/12/2004 11:48:23 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  At least it's not Scott Baio...
Posted by: Pappy || 09/12/2004 18:34 Comments || Top||

#2  Aw, geez, Pappy - Scott's kinda cute.

At least he was in his teens. :-p
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 09/12/2004 19:36 Comments || Top||

#3  Global, thermonuclear war looking better.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/12/2004 20:11 Comments || Top||

#4  Hey, go easy on Tony.
At least he's a republican. Maybe he can take the 60 Minutes slot.
Posted by: Anonymous6411 || 09/12/2004 20:47 Comments || Top||


My Kind of Study
Cannabis study encouraging for MS
By Paul Rincon
BBC News Online science staff, at the BA festival
The biggest UK study of cannabis-based drugs has shown evidence for a long-term benefit in easing the symptoms of multiple sclerosis (MS). "There is some evidence of a long-term effect," Dr John Zajicek, who heads the trial, confirmed to the BA Festival of Science at Exeter University. He also said the data so far "were consistent" with the idea the drugs could arrest nerve death in sufferers. He was presenting results that update a study published in The Lancet last year. This 15-week research project revealed patients using cannabinoid compounds could find relief from some of the painful symptoms of MS. But an analysis of the data suggested there was little reduction in spasticity among the research subjects - one of the key tests used to assess the drugs. Spasticity refers to feelings of stiffness and a wide range of involuntary muscle spasms or sudden movements. Speaking at the annual British Association meeting, Dr Zajicek, from the Peninsula Medical School in Devon, said this assessment might have been premature. Longer-term monitoring, he said, had now shown patients experiencing significant improvement in this area.
Posted by: DLS || 09/12/2004 9:07:50 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  im not taking any chances
Posted by: half || 09/12/2004 11:44 Comments || Top||

#2  study paid for by the munchies manufacturers™
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 11:48 Comments || Top||

#3  Well DLS, I see you are early to the cannibis intake study again today. Ready for an early tote I suppose.
Posted by: mhw || 09/12/2004 13:00 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm Bill Clinton, and I approve this study.
Posted by: Bill Clinton || 09/12/2004 14:33 Comments || Top||

#5  wha..?
Posted by: 420 || 09/12/2004 19:11 Comments || Top||


Arabia
First vote in Saudi Arabia put off to February 10
Posted by: Fred || 09/12/2004 11:25:56 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Feb 10, 3004
Posted by: B || 09/12/2004 0:15 Comments || Top||

#2  vote postponed due to weather. Will be rescheduled after hell freezes over :-)
Posted by: B || 09/12/2004 8:21 Comments || Top||

#3  Do people really think that the Saudi Royal family will allow anybody else have control? The same people who believe that nonsense also believe that they will let women drive, people will choose and practice other religions, drink alcohol and eat pork. Good luck!
Posted by: Anonymous6134 || 09/12/2004 10:57 Comments || Top||

#4  I read somewhere that eating pork 'induces' the same characteristics as that of that animal in humans. Whadya say 6134?. Is that right or what? lol.
Posted by: Sir Fizzle of Arabia || 09/12/2004 11:13 Comments || Top||

#5  pork as a verb, maybe, Fazl
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 11:17 Comments || Top||

#6  Looks like the Gentlemen killed off their old nom de moron after the kiddie massacre.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/12/2004 11:31 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
Mounting evidence of the forgery
Tip of the hat to Mark Buehner at the Command-Post.
Posted by: anymouse || 09/12/2004 8:25:24 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Amazing how the Press quickly buried this news.
Posted by: Anonymous6134 || 09/12/2004 23:03 Comments || Top||


Potential source for the RatherGate forged documents
(EFL, last comment on a blog page)
... Of the files that I saw within the 15 gallon waste can were numerous documents which detailed why 1LT George Bush was grounded from flying including a two-page counseling statement signed by LTC Jerry Killian. ...

Posted by: Bill Burkett on August 14, 2004 04:27 PM

Here, almost one month ago, is a direct reference to the two documents CBS has used. I'd be curious to find out more about the author of that "Bill Burkett" post.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 09/12/2004 4:20:48 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Things that make you go "Hmmmm!"
Posted by: Leigh || 09/13/2004 1:08 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
Vietnamese Refugees from Communists won't Forget or Forgive Kerry's Past
Posted by: GK || 09/12/2004 15:42 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I keep waiting for that part to become a bigger story.

Why can't one of the debates have been scheduled to take place in Orange County?
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 09/12/2004 22:29 Comments || Top||


At 0-7, Kerry Adviser Bob Shrum Is Well Acquainted With the Concession Speech
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 14:51 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Am I the only one who is fed up with posts who don't give a clue to the contents of the article and that article being on a site who requires registration?
Posted by: JFM || 09/12/2004 15:00 Comments || Top||

#2  my bad as far as the registration (apparently I already reg'd and forgot it was req'd), no apologies on the title. Shrum is a well-known Democrat political advisor, and the 0-7 references his track record spouting his rich vs poor, "the powerful vs the weak"
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 15:12 Comments || Top||

#3  Don't let it happen again, young man...
Posted by: mojo || 09/12/2004 15:18 Comments || Top||

#4  Bug Me Not is your friend ...
Posted by: A Jackson || 09/12/2004 15:56 Comments || Top||

#5  That picture is amazing! Shrum looks like a goblin!
Posted by: Steven Den Beste || 09/12/2004 20:30 Comments || Top||

#6  Ya broke it, Steve, lol!

Now:
"To our Readers:
washingtonpost.com is undergoing maintenance and some sections of the site are temporarily unavailable. We apologize for the inconvenience. Of course, the latest news and updates will continue to be available on our home page."

I was gonna snarf up the image, heh.
Posted by: .com || 09/12/2004 20:36 Comments || Top||

#7  Has anyone checked to see if Kerry has received campaign contributions from Gringott's?
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 09/12/2004 20:57 Comments || Top||

#8  And drat, the image doesn't quite come up for me either.

Maybe I can find the full picture at Reuters.
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 09/12/2004 21:01 Comments || Top||


Kerry Hints GOP May Suppress Black Votes
EFL, thank G-d.
John Kerry suggested Saturday night that Republicans may try to keep black voters from casting their ballots to help President Bush win in November. "We are not going to stand by and allow another million African American votes to go uncounted in this election," the Democratic presidential nominee told the Congressional Black Caucus. "We are not going to stand by and allow acts of voter suppression, and we're hearing those things again in this election."
Anyone else appreciate the irony of a group of elected black officials listening to and supporting claims that their constituents, who obviously DID vote for them, had been prevented from voting?
Kerry has a team of lawyers to examine possible voting problems to try to prevent a repeat of the 2000 election disputes. He also has said he has thousands of lawyers around the country prepared to monitor the polls on election day. "What they did in Florida in 2000, some say they may be planning to do this year in battleground states all across this country," Kerry said. "Well, we are here to let them know that we will fight tooth and nail to make sure that this time, every vote is counted and every vote counts."
Save yourself some money and ask Gore's "team of lawyers" whether or not anything untoward actually happened, because they found nothing. Neither did Congressional committees. By the way, did I mention that you are a race-baiting jerk?
Bush-Cheney spokesman Steve Schmidt said the campaign would not respond to Kerry's "baseless, divisive attacks" until Sunday. "Today is a day of remembrance," he said. The Massachusetts senator also criticized the president for failing to meet with the caucus since his first month in office and for what he said was a failure to meet the Biblical standard set by the Good Samaritan to help others in need.
What the hell is he talking about? Anyone? Bueller?
Posted by: Chris W. || 09/12/2004 11:17:09 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Johnny French....

How are things in PARANOIA?
Posted by: BigEd || 09/12/2004 11:33 Comments || Top||

#2  Didn't he just say Bush-Cheney were trying to strike fear in the American people?

"... a failure to meet the Biblical standard set by the Good Samaritan..." What?

Man, this guy is truly out there flappin'.
Posted by: nada || 09/12/2004 11:46 Comments || Top||

#3  ...Anybody remember my prediction from about a week ago that a previously unknown group would come forward with 'evidence' that the RNC was planning massive electoral fraud?

Bet they've got all their 'documentation' ready too.

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 09/12/2004 11:51 Comments || Top||

#4  Yes, Mike K. it is fresh off Dan Burkett's MS Word program. (see "Newsweek Names..." elswhere on RB)
Posted by: BigEd || 09/12/2004 11:54 Comments || Top||

#5  Wonder if he'll stop Democraps from driving around in trucks handing out $20 to any bums they find if they register and vote for the democraps. It was caught on tape in either Michigan or Wisconsin last election. Hmmmmm....
Posted by: 98zulu || 09/12/2004 11:57 Comments || Top||

#6  .. a failure to meet the Biblical standard set by the Good Samaritan...

They must mean BIB-Spec 4352-1R3(b) Standard, Biblical, Samaritan, Good
Posted by: badanov || 09/12/2004 12:03 Comments || Top||

#7  #2, What? Man, this guy is truly out there flappin'. Whaddaja expect? He has Carville to help write his speeches now.
Posted by: GK || 09/12/2004 12:10 Comments || Top||

#8  GK - You got that right. Kerry's campaign is really turning into a train wreck.

Why didn't Kerry just go all the way and say Bush will try to suppress all minority votes? Maybe because he only spoke in front of the Congressional Black Caucus? What a pandering boob.

Posted by: nada || 09/12/2004 12:54 Comments || Top||

#9  LOL Badanov
Posted by: Shipman || 09/12/2004 12:59 Comments || Top||

#10  Well we know that the DNC tried to strip the votes of our servicemembers from Florida in the last election. The odd thing is that the ratio of blacks in the Army is nearly twice that of the general population. So, it was the DNC that was trying to suppress black voting rights not the RNC.
Posted by: Don || 09/12/2004 13:52 Comments || Top||

#11  Not to forget, Don.
That those districts in Florida where supposed 'disenfranchisement' took place were ALL under Democratic control.

The Dems are in Panic Mode. Since Maryland's last Gubernatorial Election Wake-Up Call.

When Bob Ehrlich pulled in 13% of the Black Vote. When pundits across the state had predicted 3% to 7%.

Can't have them voters leavin' the Plantation now, can we?

Jack.
Posted by: Jack Deth || 09/12/2004 14:01 Comments || Top||

#12  This is all pretty rich from the party of fire hoses and attack dogs used on people peacefully demanding their civil rights. The party of "seprate but equal" and forced segregration.

I tell you who they should be watching come election day. The Party that has a long history of violating a citizens right to vote, the Democrat party.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom || 09/12/2004 16:39 Comments || Top||


Newsweek names the forgery suspect
Slime Time Live (actual title)
*snipped for brevity*
Where did the documents come from? CBS won't say. But the trail pieced together by NEWSWEEK shows that in a sulfurous season like this one, the difference between obscurity and power is small, and anyone can get a hearing. A principal source for CBS's story was Bill Burkett, a disgruntled former Guard officer who lives in Baird, Texas, who says he was present at Guard headquarters in Austin in 1997, when a top aide to the then Governor Bush ordered records sanitized to protect the Boss. Other Guard officials disputed Burkett's account, and the Bush aide involved, Joe Allbaugh, called it "absolute garbage." Burkett may have a motive to make trouble for the powers that be. In 1998, he grew gravely ill on a Guard mission to Panama, causing him to be hospitalized, and he suffered two nervous breakdowns. He unsuccessfully sued for medical expenses.

Still, in theory, Burkett may have had access to any Guard records that, in a friend's words, "didn't make it to the shredder." Fellow officers say he wasn't a crank, but rather a stickler for proper procedure—a classic whistle-blower type. Burkett was impressive enough to cause CBS producer Mary Mapes to fly to Texas to interview him. "There are only a couple of guys I would trust to be as perfectly honest and upfront as Bill," says Dennis Adams, a former Guard colleague. The White House, through Communications Director Dan Bartlett, called Burkett a "discredited source." Indeed, Bush strategists are convinced—or have convinced themselves—that the issue will backfire on its purveyors.
Unnamed "fellow officers" may say that Burkett is not a crank, but his record says otherwise. He is a serious LLL conspiracy theorist and polemicist whose ravings have been widely featured in Indymedia, Pacifica Radio and other fifth column outlets. I think this is the guy.
Posted by: Lee Harvey Oswald || 09/12/2004 4:14:55 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  bet he's got Office 2000 too...
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 11:25 Comments || Top||

#2  ...and forgot about how old-fashioned typewriters worked!
Posted by: BigEd || 09/12/2004 11:35 Comments || Top||

#3  I'll bet that Dan Rather has a copy of Microsoft Office too! :~)
Posted by: A Jackson || 09/12/2004 11:39 Comments || Top||

#4  This is a good fit.

It also lets both CBS and Kerry off the hook.

How convenient.

OK guys, this one is who the MSM will zoom in on. Now lets be damned sure to tie him to Moveon.org and Soros. Crank up the search engines, and start following the money.

Thats how to get the best we can out of this particular situation - as well as calling for a full and formal ON-AIR apology to President Bush from Dan Rather and CBS News.
Posted by: OldSpook || 09/12/2004 11:49 Comments || Top||

#5  Busted. Rather is next.
Posted by: Chris W. || 09/12/2004 11:50 Comments || Top||

#6  Dennis Adams, another left wing flackey defending "Can't Operate MS Word" Burkett.

Old National Guard Records of two GWB arrests?
Stealing wreath (stupid prank)
and "Rowdiness" at a Yale-Princeton football game (This disqualifies how many others who attended Yale--Princeton football games in the last 125 years from being president?)

Then there are the traffic tickets. And?
Bush 41 was probably pissed about the increased insurance premiums, but, this makes "W" EVIL? Ha! . . .

Lefty Blog Hyperventilating

Messers Burkett and Adams can't contain themselves. They need to get a brown paper bag and breathe deeply before they pass out.
Posted by: BigEd || 09/12/2004 11:51 Comments || Top||

#7  Cracker Barrel Philosopher has a post on Mary Mapes - 60 minutes producer - selectively interviewing to back their story - she's the contact to the forger, and must resign with Gunga Dan
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 11:53 Comments || Top||

#8  Trouble ahead for Bush, it has recently surfaced that he was issued a speeding ticket when he was 19. Talk about blatant disregard for authority. This man clearly shows, by this despicable act, he is unfit to lead the nation.
Never mind that he led the United States in 2 wars in 4 years and fought a worldwide war on terror.
Even Dan Rather agrees, that John Kerry who beached his boat and effectively nullified both manuerability and all fire power from bringing to bear on the enemy during his 2 week 4 month tour of duty in Vietnam is much more fit to command the entire US Armed Forces. (But only after he has purged it of all weapon systems.)
In other developing news, alleged High School classmates of Bush have revealed that he skipped a day of class. When our reporter tried to reach these classmates for further details he was told that the classmates were to busy organizing an upcoming Kerry rally for the Kerry campaign to respond, but that a George Carnival will be issuing a response in a matter of days.
Posted by: 98zulu || 09/12/2004 12:22 Comments || Top||

#9  Good one 98Z.

BTW, which way did you get to Z: C, G or J... or, from the old 05 side of the house - duffie or kilo... (God forbid you were a hawg)?

Somehow I don't see G - you don't sound like the type to keep Startrek posters in your barracks room (snicker). And you're not drunk often enought to be a hawg. You sound like a Charlie to me.
Posted by: OldSpook || 09/12/2004 12:38 Comments || Top||

#10  The Boston Goebbels Globe ran this story on Burkett four months ago. It seems that lurid claims about Bush's Guard records have been a staple of his career as a far-left shill for the last six years. Unlike the Globe's coverage of the Guard docs, this article is actually fairly skeptical of Burkett's claims, at least pointing out that there is nothing but his word to back them up. This, of course, is everything to far left conformists but may not be convincing to those who do not regard appeal to authority as a definitive test of truth.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 12:53 Comments || Top||

#11  Trouble ahead for Bush, it has recently surfaced that he was issued a speeding ticket when he was 19.

Just like 2000. This will be a top news item the Thursday before the election. And, it's easier than last time.

This time, the candidate is the eccentric man with a funny hat, and to add incredulity, given to him by a CIA man in Cambodia! WOW!
Posted by: BigEd || 09/12/2004 12:55 Comments || Top||

#12  You mean Rove didn't do it? But McAuliffe said we should look to Rove. Terry wouldn't be wrong, would he? Would he??!!
Posted by: nada || 09/12/2004 12:58 Comments || Top||

#13  wrong? How about lying? again and again....
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 13:01 Comments || Top||

#14  I think the house of cards will collapse Tuesday or Wednesday, with Dan tearfully making a non-confession admitting that, yes, the docs are obvious fakes but that others are at fault, CBS maintains the highest possible standards, blah blah.
He will then offer his resignation and retire (as he planned anyway) going out in a blaze of glory to join the LLL pantheon as a martyr to the "free press." It will be a major barf moment but ultimately a crucial defeat for the MSM in the ongoing revolution against their 40 year reign of cultural terror.


Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 13:06 Comments || Top||

#15  Critical Update:
Axis media front collapses!
The Boston Globe has turned against CBS and hit them hard on the doc scandal:
New doubt cast on Guard documents

The rats are abandoning the sinking ship and it may not last till Tuesday.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 13:13 Comments || Top||

#16  Memo to Bill Burkett:

If you are going to forge a 'document' from 1973. Go to a Flea Market and buy a freakin' IBM Selectric! My AF Reserve Unit had hundreds of them until 1992!

Jack.
Posted by: Jack Deth || 09/12/2004 13:14 Comments || Top||

#17  Now lets be damned sure to tie him to Moveon.org and Soros. Crank up the search engines, and start following the money. Thats how to get the best we can out of this particular situation - as well as calling for a full and formal ON-AIR apology to President Bush from Dan Rather and CBS News.

I haven't really gone over this material too much but here are links with extensive material and interviews concerning William Burkett:

Here

Here

Here

Here

from the above link:

Burkett boils it down to a simple question: "Why didn't Governor Bush simply release his military pay files and retirement points accounting records, which are the only official records that will show that he satisfactorily and honorably completed his service commitment?"

The simple answer may be that these records would prove the opposite - that Bush never reported for duty after April 1972, and was simply "given" the points he needed for discharge by senior officers who wanted to preserve his "political viability" then - and now.


Looks like someone did try to provide 'proof.'

Sorry, OS. It appears that Newsweak's rube of honor is stating things as he sees them, and some third party (The Kerry camp, maybe?) tried to create 'proof' to bolster those claims.

Being an intelligent person, however, my question would be, why such an obvious forgery? Assuming someone on the left did it, why try to tag Burkett with ithis fraud? Why not make the person who actually did put together these documents fall on their own sword? Are the left really that dumb?

After reading several articles, I dont think Col. Burkett can be tied to anything political. The only political link he had to the left was he got his reappointment to the Texas ANG during the Cliton administration, but he served the same time as Gov. Bush.
Posted by: badanov || 09/12/2004 13:16 Comments || Top||

#18  More on Burkett:

Burkett, who now lives near Abilene, retired from the National Guard in 1999 after more than 28 years of service because of medical reasons. He was involved in a lawsuit against the Guard over his medical benefits, which he lost on appeal, he said.
Burkett describes himself as a Democrat, but he said he doesn’t necessarily back Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry.


from: Kilgore
Posted by: badanov || 09/12/2004 13:22 Comments || Top||

#19  Oopsies!, My bad.

from the article:

The issue here is not that Bill Burkett is a liberal. It isn't even that he is left wing. The issue is that he is loony left. We are in "precious bodily fluids " territory. I'm not calling Burkett a Democrat because I think he is too far left to be a Democrat. This is the left wing version of the John Birch Society.

Not only are Bill Burkett's politics loony left but he is trying to be a political player, writing editorials and trying to sway the American people against George Bush and the Republican Party.

Burkett's politics are certainly not common among members of any military service. Given this, isn't it a pretty amazing coincidence that someone with his political views just happened to be in the right place to overhear people talking about cleansing Bush's files?

Did Burkett get lucky or is he lying to promote his political agenda?

Posted by: badanov || 09/12/2004 13:26 Comments || Top||

#20  One other note before I head back to the machine shop:

General Jack D. Ripper is my personal movie hero.

I will never forget the line: ...communist infiltration, communist indoctrination and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious body fluids.

Priceless!
Posted by: badanov || 09/12/2004 13:30 Comments || Top||

#21  Burkett on the Iraq war (Veterans for Peace, March 19, 2003):
I've sat in total grief for the past three years, watching the institutions of America being spent as if they were lottery winnings.
As I said, a UN vote would not stop GW Bush from attacking Iraq. Nor will anything else. And weapons of mass destruction will be discovered in great quantities; but the entire affair will stink to high heavens because it will be as staged as the White House press conference you just viewed.

The human death toll will publicly not be mentioned, yet in truth, it will far exceed 120,000. Our vast size and force will quickly break the back of any Iraqi resistance, yet we will not break their spirit. This is a society which has learned to live in troubled politics. They will go about their business while seething inside. There will be small uprisings, but they will quickly be crushed. The emotion and anger that we will have built will spill over into other countries and meld like an alloy with other problem areas of the Middle East, becoming a deeper seated problem. We will have insured that America's dynasty is nearing an end.
(the above also includes a lot about Burkett's medical problems and his claims about W's records.)

Bush's Iraq Attack Risks Reaction (August 23, 2002):
The debate about Iraq is really not about Saddam Hussein. It is a debate about countering the threat of the US challenges to the rest of the World.
...
The collapse of the Soviet 'bear' significantly contributed to Bush I's scheme to encourage Iraq to invade Kuwait.
...
But Bush's abrupt withdrawal from the Kyoto process signaled that the US crossed the line from legitimate national interest into imperialism...


This isn't just left, it is the moonbat version of tinfoil, precious bodily fluids territory.


Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 13:41 Comments || Top||

#22  AARRRGGHHH! Berserk coding. Please delete above if possible.
Trying again:

Badanov
The same Friedman article you link to quotes Burkett as buying into a red-hot academic histori-lie, the supposed "Bombing of Tulsa" in 1921:
"That's right, [the Texas redistricting is] the same concept that was tried in South Africa within the past 30 years. It's also the root of the Tulsa massacres in which "black districts" were eventually attacked by the Oklahoma National Guard and the police. "

The link to the original source is unfortunately dead. During the 1921 riots, some locals (possibly police) tossed a few sticks sticks of dyanmite into the black neighborhood from one or more civilian light planes. The current Lefty version completely ignores the documented details and uses extravagant hyperbole to invite the conclusion that the whole area was carpet-bombed by the Army Air Corps, no doubt with napalm and daisy-cutters.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 14:11 Comments || Top||

#23  OS et al:

The more I read about Veterans for Peace, which Burkett is a member of, the worse my chills get.

This is part is several socialist/communist organizations, including the International Socailist Organization, the Communist Party USA and Socialist Party, Green Peace, and etc; in other words, groups dedicated to socialism.

The scary thing is that if CBS got their documents from Burkett via the Kerry camp, it means that Kerry has strong ties to domestic communist orgaizations, including his old Viet Nam Vertans against the War.

Scary stuff, folks.
Posted by: badanov || 09/12/2004 14:57 Comments || Top||

#24  It wasn't Burkett, it was either Ben Barnes or Rather's own daughter.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 09/12/2004 14:58 Comments || Top||

#25  "I don't avoid women, Mandrake - but I do deny them my essence."
Posted by: mojo || 09/12/2004 15:13 Comments || Top||

#26  Somehow I don't see G - you don't sound like the type to keep Startrek posters in your barracks room (snicker)

I was 98G Russian/Polish . . . I guarantee you I didn't have ST posters in my barracks room. More like Hendrix and Morrison posters.

I think you're thinking of the 98C (analyst?!?, hah!) ; }

Posted by: spiffo || 09/12/2004 15:19 Comments || Top||

#27  From the Globe article
it contacted Hodges Friday evening only to find that Hodges believes the documents are inauthentic.

Interesting word.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/12/2004 15:25 Comments || Top||

#28  I once sad to say wrote an inauthentic check and was mildly chastised.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/12/2004 15:27 Comments || Top||

#29  Here is something Burkett wrote on August 14th of this year (scroll all the way down)): ... Of the files that I saw within the 15 gallon waste can were numerous documents which detailed why 1LT George Bush was grounded from flying including a two-page counseling statement signed by LTC Jerry Killian. ...

This direct reference, on Aug-14, to the two documents CBS has been using could indicate the source of the forgeries.
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) || 09/12/2004 16:27 Comments || Top||

#30  "why try to tag Burkett with this fraud?"

Because:

a) it gets Kerry off the hook for being connected to the fabrication.
b) it gets CBS off the hook for fabricating the docs.

It "fits" with what MSM wants - a nice tidy package of an "outsider with a grudge". They can sell that rather than admit culpability due to their ingrained ideology (Rather) and tacit links to the Kerry Campaign (Barnes, et alia).

Thats why I suspect Burkett is your media designated scapegoat. Him and the producer that interviewd people (and discarded the interviews with Killians wife & son).
Posted by: OldSpook || 09/12/2004 16:32 Comments || Top||

#31  forgot to add - 98Z you have your head on straight for a Golf. I'm an analyst now after being a field type, so naturally I assumed you were the analyst type. And yeah, Startrek posters probably fit some of them well (admitting that I was a Trekie too - loved the original gang Kirk Spock McCoy and Scotty). Something about being at DLI for 60+ weeks that messes up your head if you are in one of the "odd" language groups.
Posted by: OldSpook || 09/12/2004 16:37 Comments || Top||

#32  The evidence against Burkett also matters, OS. Speculation about motives for a frame-up is useless without some evidence that there has actually been a frame-up.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 16:42 Comments || Top||

#33  And the W. stands for.... WRather... Wimp Ass WRather and the rest of the MsM who's days are done and they know it. What entertainment...
Posted by: Constitutional Individualist || 09/12/2004 16:48 Comments || Top||

#34  My opinion on the chain of provenance:
DNC (expressed requirement)--->Barnes (contacted Burkett and arranged payment)--->Burkett(fabrication possibly outsourced to UT lefties)--->DNC (back through Barnes)---->Mapes (CBS TX)-----> Rather (CBS NY)
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 16:51 Comments || Top||

#35  Please explain something to this engineer. If I was to commit a crime or sting I would know I could be hurt so I would do my research on every part and do it right. Why do the Democrats always execute such amature hatchet jobs?
It doesn't take too much to do it right.
Posted by: 3dc || 09/12/2004 17:19 Comments || Top||

#36  Does anyone other than me notice that the LLL has descended to the same schizoid conspiracy level as the Moonbats of Islam.

The LLL believes:
- the Killian documents are not forgeries
- Bush people created the forgeries to trick CBS

The Moonbats of Islam believe:
- The 911 attacks were the just revenge of Allah
- The Jews were behind these attacks
Posted by: mhw || 09/12/2004 17:20 Comments || Top||

#37  They can sell that rather than admit culpability due to their ingrained ideology (Rather) and tacit links to the Kerry Campaign (Barnes, et alia). Thats why I suspect Burkett is your media designated scapegoat. Him and the producer that interviewd people (and discarded the interviews with Killians wife & son).

If a link between Barnes and Burkett can be established, the Kerry campaign is in deep, deep, deep trouble because that is incontrovertible evidence that Kerry is anti-defense pro-appeasement pro socialist campiagn. The weight of all this should be the final element that wrecks the Kerry campaign; and the sooner the better.

It's that they chose this fella to be their scapegoat that is their problem now, since he and his ties to leftist organizations provides what I consider a devastating political hot ptotato that not even J Fn Kerry can 'nuance.'
Posted by: badanov || 09/12/2004 17:32 Comments || Top||

#38  mhw
Left-wing political activism is based on a kind of alternate epistomology, one in which authority (usually expressed as "credibility") trumps facts or logic, especially if the latter are merely technical in nature. Post-modern linguists will say as much. At every step in this fraud's journey, the perceived credibility of the preceding source was so great that no checks were thought necessary. By the time it reached Rather, his conviction of their authenticity was probably so great that nobody would do the checks for fear of offending him.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 17:33 Comments || Top||

#39  Atomic
so Rather = Mullah

similar to

Dialectical Materialism = God
and
Marx = Messiah
Posted by: mhw || 09/12/2004 17:42 Comments || Top||

#40  To clarify, we can consider the case of the hypothetical Burkett--->Barnes--->DNC---Rather provenance. Barnes would initially judge the passability of the documents on the basis of Burkett's credentials (retired officer, activist, etc.). The DNC would then accept the docs from Barnes on the basis of Barnes' activism, contributions, and long-standing reputation as a shrewd and ruthless inside operator. The DNC then passes the docs to Rather, adding its own credibility to the cumulative total. Rather, an authoritarian personality in a business that trades on authority, would accept this as completely unimpeachable, believing that his own godlike media authority would either keep questions from arising at all or quickly settle the issue for the public. He miscalculated, authoritarians often do. It is called hubris.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 17:43 Comments || Top||

#41  mhw
Exactly, except that Rather is more of an Ayatollah than a mullah.
In many ways, media-left conformity is a religion, with its own icons, creation myths, dogma, priesthood, and sacred texts. See Thomas Franks' The Conquest of Cool.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy || 09/12/2004 17:49 Comments || Top||

#42  I think the best theory I’ve heard to date, is that the “Documents” came to Dan the
Newsman by way of his daughter Robin. It makes sense really. Given the ruthless nature
of journo’s like Rather, it would explain his behavior.

Dan is going to maintain his: “That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it!” posture to the
bitter end. He is protecting his daughter. There is NO WAY that Dan and CBS haven’t
figured out by now that they’ve been had.

The Law of Unintended Consequences:

I believe this was done by operatives within the DNC hoping to do a “Swifty Vets” style
job on the GWB. I doubt that it ever occurred to them that what they would do is scuttle
themselves and destroy the last shreds of credibility that the MSM had at the same time.

You can think of this event as being equivalent to the Titanics’ glancing blow with the
iceberg. As someone else said: “There is no place else to go from here, but ugly!”.

Posted by: CiT || 09/12/2004 18:42 Comments || Top||

#43  In my own not so humble opinion, the docs were done by someone too young to be aware of the difference between typewriters and word processors and who never served in the military. Typewriters are pretty much extinct now and anyone under 30 or so would have always used a word processor. Anyone familiar with the military would not have punctuated the abbreviations the way they appear. Stir in a little of that rabid idealism young folks are prone to, and you have the whole recipe. We must destroy the Evil BushHitler(tm) by any means, fair or foul!

As an alternate theory, the culprit was just too stoopid to know or care about the details.
Posted by: SteveS || 09/12/2004 19:07 Comments || Top||

#44  Ahhh, but 3dc, you are an engineer. If you had done it, Kerry would already have replaced Bush at the helm, based on the information in your documents.

Thank goodness the inclinations of you and your fellows don't run in that direction!
Posted by: trailing wife || 09/12/2004 19:23 Comments || Top||

#45  If tomorrow, shareholders of Viacom/CBS inundate switchboards so that the board has to react.

I.E., Get 'em out or else! Then there will be a reconing. Arrogant Dan is so delusional that only being told he's out and having a senior CBS/Viacom official open the newscast with apologies before Rather's replacement starts to read the rest of the news will suffice.

Enough is enough.

And if the DNC Bozos start to delusionally go after the Bush Guard record, then fairgame is the Winter Soldier intimidations, and threats against senators at a meeting where Kerry attended become currency.

Enough is enough.
Posted by: BigEd || 09/12/2004 21:06 Comments || Top||

#46  Just heard Barnes daughter on Fox in an interview - she said her father was lying, this was not the first time he had lied about something substantive, and she believed he was lying to try to help Kerry.
Posted by: OldSpook || 09/12/2004 21:27 Comments || Top||

#47  I'm buying just 1 share of VIA tomorrow. Just so I can hit the stockholder's line. Heh.
Posted by: OldSpook || 09/12/2004 21:30 Comments || Top||

#48  VIAb by the way...

and here's a nice tidbit from Newsmax (take with a LARGE grain of salt - Newsmax is the National Enquirer of the Right). Its along the lines of "What did the Kerry Campaign know and when did they know it"....

Sunday, Sept. 12, 2004 10:18 a.m. EDT
CBS Won't Deny Kerry Link to Forged Docs

In a development that could have devastating implications for John Kerry's presidential campaign, CBS News is refusing to say whether the top Democrat, his campaign aides or any other prominent party officials had anything to do with supplying "60 Minutes" with a National Guard memo about President Bush that experts say was forged..

Asked about a Kerry connection to the forged memo, a senior CBS official told the New York Post, "I can't answer that question."

The unnamed CBS executive then promptly hung up.
Posted by: OldSpook || 09/12/2004 21:40 Comments || Top||

#49  Old Spook:

Reading the Newsmax article, I can only assume that Carlm Limbaucher and/or the NewsMax staff were the interviewers who asked this unnamed CBS executive this question. The article doesn't say.

Geez, I'd wish they would name the exec, so we can know. Less a matter of fairness than accuracy, I can't credit the story without someone going on the record.

Anyways, in the interests of strategerizing, let us say they ( meaning anyone ) actually gets a statement from CBS that the Kerry camp was in the 'chain of provenence'; that they actually helped in getting the document to CBS, then it is over. Kerry can be truthfully and finally painted as a dangerous leftist radical who can't give up his old leftist habits for national security.

They can flail away at Bush for his National Guard service all they want, which apparently they will do this coming week; You can stick a fork in him: Kerry is done.
Posted by: badanov || 09/12/2004 22:25 Comments || Top||

#50  This has Kerry's 'MO' all over it.

In 68 he reveived his 1st purple heard based on 'forged' enemy fire. His Bronzed Star based on a false after-action report based on non-existent enemy fire (he wrote). And his 3rd Purple heart for rice in his ass based on a forged action report.

In 71 he testified to congress based on forged 'testimony' evidence (that being Winter Soldier) which he actively participated in.

In '04 he provides CBS with forged 'evidence' of Bush'es National Guard Service.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/12/2004 22:27 Comments || Top||

#51  Some observations:

1. Burkett is crazy. His 55 gallon drum full of files for destruction is a bit heavy handed for one reservist. That volume of paperwork would be approriate if this was an attmept to cover-up the presence of a battalion of Russian troops secretly operating in our national... you get the idea

2. Burkett would have gotten the date form correct per the military style sheet.

3. Burkett had plenty of official paperwork of his own that he could have copied - he sounds as if he has at least several Non Punative Letters of Caution to use as a cypher.

4. Burket probably used a typewriter in the day and would have realized that word processors were different.

He is a bad candidate. Look for a kid - probably a liberal arts major - under orders from Dem operative without any military background.
Posted by: Super Hose || 09/13/2004 0:28 Comments || Top||


Home Front: WoT
Mexico bitches about crime wave from criminal illegals deported home
EFL - RTWT - takes the prize for chutzpah
Edward Gutierrez grew up in a Los Angeles suburb where illegal immigrants come to raise their children in hopes of a better life. Gutierrez took a different path, joining a gang and getting in trouble with the law. At 20, he was sentenced to 15 years in prison for armed robbery.
as if he's the only one
Because Gutierrez is a Mexican citizen, the U.S. government deported him eight years later when he was released from custody. He ended up in Tijuana, and promptly became Mexico's problem.
kinda inconvenient, that citizenship thing, huh?
Gutierrez, 31, now sits in a Mexican prison, accused of killing two people in a Tijuana apartment last year. One of the victims also was a deported L.A.-area gang member. The heavily tattooed Gutierrez, known by his English nickname "Shy Boy," faces up to 50 years in prison if convicted. He declined requests for an interview but says he is innocent.
"Nope. Nope. Wudn't me..."

Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 10:23:59 AM || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Edward Gutierrez grew up in a Los Angeles suburb where illegal immigrants come to raise their children in hopes of a better life.

So much for coming here just to take work.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 09/12/2004 14:24 Comments || Top||

#2  Awwwwwww.

Ain't that just too bad.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 09/12/2004 15:41 Comments || Top||

#3  Adios pendejos!!!
Posted by: Sgt.D.T. || 09/12/2004 17:13 Comments || Top||

#4  Sgt.! Such language!
Posted by: Deacon Blues || 09/12/2004 20:01 Comments || Top||

#5  " One of the victims also was a deported L.A.-area gang member." Well, at least ol' Edward did something right.

"At 20, he was sentenced to 15 years in prison...eight years later when he was released..." Well there's part of the problem right there: if you sentence him to 15 years, keep him for 15 years.
Posted by: Les Nessman || 09/12/2004 21:56 Comments || Top||

#6  Mexican authorities in Baja California say they are disturbed by a trend they have noticed in recent years of more criminal deportees living in border communities. They blame some of these deportees, particularly L.A-area gang members, for contributing to Baja California’s crime rate.

Of course, these same "Mexican authorities" took absolutely no notice of how they are responsible for fostering a corrupt and graft riddled culture that breeds up these criminals in the first place. I'm sure they blame America's vibrantly free and open society for instilling the sort of moral turpitude these thugs carry back to their spawning grounds.
Posted by: Zenster || 09/12/2004 22:38 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Culture Wars
Protesting: The new extreme sport
Interesting column concerning Michelle Malkin's recent talk at Berkley.... EFL

Story by Melanie Smith
Posted September 10th, 2004

Generally, amending the US Constitution requires two-thirds of Congress and three-fourths of the states. Under very special circumstances, however, necessary changes may be made by bitter students at UC Berkeley.

When campus activists heard that syndicated columnist and Fox News Channel contributor Michelle Malkin was scheduled to give a speech defending racial profiling, all hell broke loose—replete with protest signs and profound slogans such as "Racism sucks." A speaker whose ideas we find contrary? they wondered. Surely you jest! This campus is reserved solely for large, stupid, white men who fabricate documentaries, rip off titles of famous Bradbury novels, and wear baseball hats to the Academy Awards!

Something had to be done about this strange woman, and the protestors rose to the occasion magnificently. Content with yelling themselves hoarse in the lobby of Dwinelle Hall while Ms. Malkin enjoyed a largely courteous crowd in the packed auditorium, these enlightened students agreed unanimously that there was something integral missing from the First Amendment. Free speech...but only if we agree with it!

An exaggeration on my part, perhaps? I'll let you decide after reading this quote from an email sent out by the campus Stop the War Coalition: "We believe that racists like Michelle Malkin should not be given a free pass to come on campus."
Yeah! Freedom of Speech is just for us leftist moonbats dammit!
I believe I've never heard anything more ignorant in my life.

Perhaps if these savvy demonstrators had finally tired of hearing the sounds of their own voices and listened to someone else for a change, they might have realized Ms. Malkin is not nearly as extreme as they painted her to be. Far from advocating the reinstitution of internment camps, she simply admonished the audience to be critical of any school of thought which deems racial profiling—or "threat profiling"—as completely un -snip-
Second, what happened to making informed arguments? Prior to the event, I asked a few prospective protestors what they thought of Ms. Malkin's book.

The most common reply? "I don't read racist trash like that!"

Said I, "Then how can you tell whether she's a racist?"

"You're a f***ing racist, too!"
The logic here would make John Kerry and Susan Estrogen proud!
I hope the philosophy and logic courses aren't all full this semester, because I referred quite a few people to that part of the Cal curriculum.

Really, though, ever since UC Regent Ward Connerly was pinned with the same epithet, the word "racist" has lost quite a bit of weight. It's just not as meaningful when it becomes as common as the colors black and silver at a Raiders game.
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/12/2004 7:43:44 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  These people are only one "friend" short of being much more than just obnoxious idiotarians and deliriously proud of it... Tomothy McVeigh.
Posted by: .com || 09/12/2004 20:40 Comments || Top||

#2  The only people participating in a true extreme sport are the ones making it possible for the protestors to mouth off without experiencing any real discomfort or fear.
Posted by: B || 09/12/2004 21:25 Comments || Top||

#3  Gee B, you think the marines can use that?

"Join the Marines - the most extreme of all extreme sports!"
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/12/2004 22:22 Comments || Top||

#4  The only reason these ignorant kids are the way they are is that no one harrasses them. If they were treated in kind 75% would run away and possibly rethink their position. 25% would stay and come to blows with whom ever treated them in kind. Seeing a good shit pounding up close couldn't hurt them. Most have never see one in their whole pampered elitist lives.
Posted by: Trolling for Allan || 09/12/2004 22:56 Comments || Top||


Africa: North
Egypt stakes claim to UN council seat
Egypt staked a claim to a permanent seat on the UN Security Council on Saturday, saying the powerful body should better represent all the world's civilisations and cultures.
"We want to represent the failed states..."
The Security Council's five permanent members with veto power -- the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China -- have held seats since its creation from the ruins of World War Two. Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit told a conference any expansion of the Security Council should not be confined to some societies to the exclusion of others. "It will be difficult to achieve real progress on this subject without a comprehensive view...which grasps the importance of representing all civilisations and cultures in the expanded council," said Aboul Gheit, who was Egypt's ambassador to the United Nations until his appointment in July. "Egypt's ... contributions to supporting the activities and achieving the objectives of the United Nations and its peacekeeping operations qualify it to take on the responsibility of new membership in the expanded Security Council." Egypt joins other major powers such as Germany, Japan, India and Brazil which are seeking permanent seats on the council.
Posted by: Fred || 09/12/2004 11:26:42 PM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Help yourselves to ours. We've outgrown it.
Posted by: Another Dan || 09/12/2004 0:10 Comments || Top||

#2  ROFL!

There are No limits to Arab Absurdities.
Posted by: Anonymous6404 || 09/12/2004 0:55 Comments || Top||

#3  Far as I'm concerned, they can have the whole friggin building.
Posted by: tu3031 || 09/12/2004 0:59 Comments || Top||

#4  Nope. I get the building; I get all the buildings. Bwahahahaha!
Posted by: Donald Trump || 09/12/2004 1:06 Comments || Top||

#5  Actually, the building itself would be a fine attraction at Giza.
Posted by: Hosni Mubarak || 09/12/2004 3:04 Comments || Top||

#6  How about giving a permanent seat to the Hebrew culture?
Posted by: JFM || 09/12/2004 8:08 Comments || Top||

#7 
Why should the Security Council permanently include a culture that refuses to renounce terrorism?
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 09/12/2004 8:32 Comments || Top||

#8  Why should the Security Council permanently include a culture that refuses to renounce terrorism?

A celebration of multi-cultural diversity?

Somebody you can point out to the newly-formed nations and say "Don't be like them"?

Because having Sudan chair 'Human Rights' was such a success?
Posted by: Pappy || 09/12/2004 11:24 Comments || Top||

#9  fine, you can have the chair, but not a veto
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 11:27 Comments || Top||

#10  They have the chair but they have to take charge of maintenance from the serfs.
Posted by: Shipman || 09/12/2004 11:30 Comments || Top||

#11  Well, let's see. If you want to pick who *should* have a seat on the SC, my pics would be the world powers, that is: US, China, Russia, and Japan, once it has developed a serious military.
*
In addition, blocs of the major trade and military cooperation partners should replace the non-voting individual state members. The EU; ASEAN/Oceania (non-China); an African bloc led by SA and Kenya; a South American bloc led by Argentina and Brazil; and a non-aligned bloc.
*
Voting members can still only be those that can enforce their votes, with both military and non-military (disaster) intervention.
*
Last but not least, there should be a separate Security Council for all nuclear powers. This would have the US, Russia, China, France, United Kingdom, India, and Pakistan as VOTING members, plus any other nation that will ADMIT to having nuclear weapons *and* agree to IAEA inspections. Non-voting members would be nations that are "technically" nuclear weapons capable but disavow their creation or possession. That is, they have everything they need and could quickly assemble a nuke, but refuse to do so (also verifiable by the IAEA.) There should be NO membership for any nation refusing IAEA inspections, and any nuclear development, even for "peaceful" purposes, by them, should be discouraged. (This last bit would make this idea popular by those seeking to force Israel to admit it. However, it would be a pyrrhic victory, because if Israel admitted it, and included IAEA inspections, it would become a voting member.)
Posted by: Anonymoose || 09/12/2004 11:40 Comments || Top||

#12  Darn, I forgot "India", for a seat on the SC.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 09/12/2004 11:41 Comments || Top||

#13  Israel doesn't admit owning nukes because that would start the slippery slope to disarmament/surrender to their enemies. Everyone knows they have them (200+) and will use them if they have to, to survive. Iran will find that out, soon.
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 11:47 Comments || Top||

#14  "If we don't get a seat, there's no telling what the consequences might be. I'm not threatening, I'm just saying . . ."
Posted by: PlanetDan || 09/12/2004 11:54 Comments || Top||

#15  excuse for seething #3,895
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 11:56 Comments || Top||

#16  Hell they already own France's seat. What more do they want?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 09/12/2004 12:07 Comments || Top||

#17  Frank G: That used to be a much more tangible reason than it is, anymore. The idea is that by coming out of the nuclear closet, Isreal will profit more than by any potential loss--this is the selling point. It would also be a good idea, internationally, as both SA and Argentina are borderline nuclear powers, and have cooperated with Israel under the radar for some years, producing both weapons tech *and* civilian tech, the latter valuable as a legal commodity.
The bottom line is that Israel *is* a nuclear power (and a responsible one), and it is better for everyone's interests if it joins the nuclear club, signs on to international protocols, deals with waste disposal problems, etc.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 09/12/2004 12:13 Comments || Top||

#18  you're assuming the internationals (protocols, inspections, etc.) have anything to teach or assist the Israelis in responsible ownership and handling of nukes. I submit Mohamed El-Baradei as exhibit 1 in refuting that
Posted by: Frank G || 09/12/2004 12:33 Comments || Top||

#19  The IAEA and the UNSC do not have any fangs, just gums to beat. We are going through this Iran exercise to prove this fact---AGAIN. If Iran gets nukes, they will quietly give some to proxies to do their dirty work. We cannot afford to wait until they do. Talking about the UNSC and its members is like a mad hatter's tea party. The UN is dead, it just does not know it yet.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 09/12/2004 14:26 Comments || Top||

#20  Frank G: I'm far more concerned with protocols than inspections. Protocols are a two way street, such as the "failsafe" protocol, and the "escalations" protocols. More than anything else, they are designed to avoid accidental use and limit what *could* be contained as a conventional war from going nuclear. They also cover such things as nuclear accidents, the disposal of nuclear waste, and international cooperation with other nuclear problems--like 3rd party proliferation and black marketeering.
*
In other words, protocols are really, really good things to have, to be aware of, and to agree to. They really do prevent war and result in a host of good benefits. Needless to say, most of the protocols in use by the world today were developed at the behest of the US.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 09/12/2004 14:50 Comments || Top||

#21  The EU should only have one permenant seat, shouldn't it? I mean, It's all one big happy nation, right? So take away France's veto and perm seat, send the stupid bastards back to the milling throng of dictators and syncophants in the GA.

As for Egypt - fuck 'em.
Posted by: mojo || 09/12/2004 14:56 Comments || Top||

#22  "It's oh so humiliating not to have a permanent seat on the Security Council." ; )
Posted by: GK || 09/12/2004 15:14 Comments || Top||

#23  I think that el Baradei's unbroken string of astonishingly successful interventions as head of the IAEA gives us a perfect example of what can be expected from any Egyptian participation on the UN Security Council.
Posted by: Zenster || 09/12/2004 16:07 Comments || Top||



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Meet the Mods
In no particular order...
Steve White
Seafarious
tu3031
badanov
sherry
ryuge
GolfBravoUSMC
Bright Pebbles
trailing wife
Gloria
Fred
Besoeker
Glenmore
Frank G
3dc
Skidmark

Two weeks of WOT
Sun 2004-09-12
  Bahrain frees two held for alleged Al Qaeda links
Sat 2004-09-11
  Blast, Mushroom Cloud Reported in N. Korea
Fri 2004-09-10
  Toe tag for al-Houthi
Thu 2004-09-09
  Australian embassy boomed in Jakarta
Wed 2004-09-08
  Russia Offers $10 Million for Chechen Rebels
Tue 2004-09-07
  Putin rejects talks with child killers
Mon 2004-09-06
  GSPC appoints new supremo
Sun 2004-09-05
  Izzat Ibrahim jugged? (Apparently not...)
Sat 2004-09-04
  Russia seals off North Ossetia
Fri 2004-09-03
  Hostage school stormed by Russian forces
Thu 2004-09-02
  16 dead so far in North Ossetia stand-off
Wed 2004-09-01
  200 kiddies hostage in Beslan
Tue 2004-08-31
  Booms in Moscow, Jerusalem
Mon 2004-08-30
  Chechen boom babes were roommates
Sun 2004-08-29
  Boom Kills 9 Children, 1 Adult in Afghan School


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