Saudi Arabia is set to release a list naming clerics who will be tried on terrorism charges for issuing fatwas, or religious edicts, which justify terrorist acts. The Saudi newspaper Arab News cites the Saudi interior minister Prince Nayef as saying they will be tried as terror accomplices. He also revealed that authorities are trying to trace additional clerics, whose names do not appear on the list.
I'll believe it when a few mullahs lose their heads
It is thought hundreds of Saudis have travelled to Iraq in recent months to join the Jihad or holy war there. Saudi newspapers have carried interviews with several young men who turned back after receiving a fatwa from one senior Saudi cleric warning that only Iraqis should take part in the Jihad. Another young Saudi said he and his friends returned on discovering their only purpose would be as suicide bombers.
"You want us to do what?"
Prince Nayef told a meeting of the Supreme Tourism Authority this week that the plans to try the clerics are part of their effort to identify individuals who are financing terror operations in the kingdom.
On Wednesday newspapers in Saudi Arabia reported that following the killing of Moroccan Younis al-Hayari - who was considered the new leader of al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia - the terror network is expected to name Fahd Faraj al-Juwair as its new leader. The 35-year-old is number two on the list of 36 most wanted militants issued by the Saudi interior ministry last week. Al-Hayari was number one on that list. He died in a shootout after the Saudi security forces carried out raids on suspected militant hideouts in the capital Riyadh.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 11:41 ||
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#1
Oh, we will slap you on the wrist - you naughty boy!
#2
I'll take this seriously when some clerics' heads roll.
Posted by: Tom ||
07/07/2005 12:19 Comments ||
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#3
They're gonna make sure those "clerics" keep the fodder flowing into Iraq and the west rather than staying at home.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 12:29 Comments ||
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#4
Prince Nayef told a meeting of the Supreme Tourism Authority this week that the plans to try the clerics are part of their effort to identify individuals who are financing terror operations in the kingdom.
Yeah, the bastards were supposed to conduct their operations elsewhere, OUT of the kingdom...
7 July 2005; 12:54 ET: Preliminary reports from a source inside the Pentagon indicate that one of the operatives involved in this morning's bombings in London was recently released from the prison at Guantanamo. DEVELOPING⊠I take this with a grain of salt, but if true....no GITMO detainee will EVER see the light of day again. I'm all for executing the lot personally.
HUGE grain of salt. But if true it might shut Durbin up. For a day. Maybe. ... Nah.
#1
The next time some lefty Clinton appointed judge forces us to release a piece of human fertilizer from Gitmo, get the Islamofart assigned to be an intern in the senate office of Durbin, Leahy, or Kennedy, etc...
#4
Boy i wish they had more facts on that page than just a statement. I am with Mmurray as far as putting the whole bunch to sleep after lunch. It would be a HUGE hit on Turbin Bin Durbin.
#5
Allahpundit used to call homelandsecurityus.com "the world's most alarmist website". Sounds like open speculation rather than anything backed by facts, doesn't it?
Posted by: Mitch H. ||
07/07/2005 16:56 Comments ||
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#6
Even if it is true, the LLL will merely say that he was just a poor, innocent boy who was radicalized by his stay at Club Gitmo (he didn't even get a T-shirt;) rather than that it was a fair cop all along.
#7
The guy that runs this site is a blowhard alarmist with a long history of propagating utter BS. Sheesh, even Stratfor is more reliable.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/07/2005 17:26 Comments ||
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#8
Steve Quayle doesn't publish Northeast Intelligence Network (homelandsecurityus.com). They link to him, though. And he is a nut, but nuts can be useful, too.
They're in that same reliable/unreliable zone that Debka is in. Like any other source, there's a variety of positives and negatives. Sometimes they get ahold of information about an attack that doesn't happen, and in that case its in everybody's interest to deny it, and they appear to be unreliable when they're not. Sometimes their analysis of the facts isn't poor, even though it's based on solid fact. And sometimes they're fed disinformation.
I appreciate them because they arent' just a news wire -- they try to predict things. If you're in the prediction business, especially in this WoT area, you've got to push the limits a bit. I think the key is not to read them in isolation, but to look at what they're saying in the overall context of things.
#9
I kinda doubt this, mainly because the guys behind this would figure that a Gitmo alum would be under surveillance, and that would make him radioactive, as far as they would be concerned.
Posted by: Darth VAda ||
07/07/2005 19:55 Comments ||
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#10
mainly because the guys behind this would figure that a Gitmo alum would be under surveillance
So what? Surveillance? What does that matter, if no one will ever arrest them?
This wouldn't surprise me at all. In fact, I half expect it.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 20:28 Comments ||
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#11
RC: You could be right. I was just trying to think like the perps - okay, hallucinate like the perps. It would stand to reason that the security guys would at least want to know where someone like this was living and who he was spending his time with. At the very least, I'd think they would want to know if he was a subscriber to Guns and Ammo or Jihadi Today.
Posted by: Darth VAda ||
07/07/2005 21:00 Comments ||
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Londoners have paid the price for Iraq and Afghanistan, says George Galloway. The Respect MP, whose Bethnal Green and Bow constituency includes the site of at least one of the bomb attacks, said the attacks were "despicable". But he told MPs it was the US-led coalition's actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo which had inflamed hatred of the West in the Muslim world.
In response, minister Adam Ingram accused Mr Galloway of "dipping his poisonous tongue in a pool of blood". The armed forces minister added that Mr Galloway's comments were "disgraceful".
Earlier Mr Galloway said he was absolutely clear the bombings had been carried out by Islamic extremists inspired by Osama Bin Laden's world outlook. He argued that the bombings had not come out of the "clear blue sky" - the background was the invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, photographs of abuses by US troops at Abu Ghraib prison and the continuing confinement of people by America at Guantanamo. Mr Galloway said the West was in danger of making the same mistakes over and over again, continuing with "war and occupation as the principal instrument of our foreign and defence policy". He added: "And if we do then some people will get through and hurt us as they have hurt us today."
Mr Galloway who was expelled from the Labour Party over his outspoken comments on the Iraq war, linked the deaths of people in London to the deaths of those in Falluja at the hands of coalition forces. Earlier, in a statement, the MP said: "The loss of innocent lives, whether in this country or Iraq, is precisely the result of a world that has become a less safe and peaceful place in recent years. "We have worked without rest to remove the causes of such violence from our world. "We argued, as did the security services in this country, that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the threat of terrorist attack in Britain. "Tragically Londoners have now paid the price of the government ignoring such warnings." He urged the government to remove people in the UK from "harm's way" by ending the occupation of Iraq and focusing on finding a real solution to conflicts in the Middle East.
Downing Street declined to comment on Mr Galloway's comments.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 14:13 ||
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Gonna swing.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 14:23 Comments ||
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When Galloways body ceases to function...
I have a vision of the ending of "Team America" where a parasite that controlled his brain will crawl out of his ear, and fly off in a UFO...
#5
Knowing that speech isn't as protected in the UK as in the US, when does Galloway's trial for sedition begin?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 14:50 Comments ||
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#6
Earth to Galloway: DROP DEAD
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
07/07/2005 14:51 Comments ||
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#7
Howard, someone needs to kick this lunatics ass in public. A total punch down of him and his as I have noticed in recent news photos ever present bodyguards.
#8
CF, I had exactly the same thought. Georgie was awfully quick off the mark. But, hey, I'm always prepared to think the worst of that random collection of protoplasm
Posted by: Matt ||
07/07/2005 15:06 Comments ||
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#9
Galloway was on the take in Iraq. He is just going for the Slimelightâ¢. He had is 15 minutes of fame, he is getting greedy. Needs a slap.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/07/2005 15:20 Comments ||
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#10
For the record, I don't think Galloway's corrupt.
I think he's willingly on the side of evil.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 15:26 Comments ||
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#11
I agree with RC. I think of it as the Galloway Defense:
#16
George Galloway is right: it's a mistake to have "war and occupation as the principal instrument of our foreign and defence policy". We need to first focus on the eradication of Wahabi fundamentalism on the home front. The Wahabi fundamentalists need to be put on par with Nazis and dealt with accordingly. His Bethnal Green and Bow (which has 45,000 Muslim residents) is a fine place to start flushing them out. If you can't bring yourselves to imprison traitorous people who embrace a homicidal death cult, at least deport them to Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Tom ||
07/07/2005 16:10 Comments ||
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#17
Damn Jackal, that's a keeper. Stolen. In the best traditions' of the pack.
#19
Galloway and animals like him are the real cause, the real enablers, of these atrocities. I hope the people of the United Kingdom can finally see the true enemy within, the propagandists and appeasement advocates without whose efforts terrorism would be useless, and therefore non-existent.
There should be reprisals, but remember that Mohammed the cabbie and Achmed the grocer didn't do this. Your own fifth column, on the other hand, is as guilty as the bombers themselves, more so for having so many more choices during their lives.
#20
He's older than me, so it's likely he'll pop his clogs before me. I will then shit on his grave. Fucker. I will hopefully have ameobic dysentry at the time. Damn it I hate this man!
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/07/2005 19:27 Comments ||
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#21
How about just regular dysentary, Tony? The amoebic version can encyst and go chronic if not caught and treated immediately, and even Galloway isn't worth that! (Mr. Wife spent a couple of ugly weeks in an Indian hospital with amoebic dysentary, and was very happy to go back to the regular variety.)
Statement on the London bombings by George Galloway on behalf of Respect
We extend our condolences to those who have lost their lives today and our heartfelt sympathy to all those who have been injured by the bombs in London.
No one can condone acts of violence aimed at working people going about their daily lives. They have not been a party to, nor are they responsible for, the decisions of their government. They are entirely innocent and we condemn those who have killed or injured them.
The loss of innocent lives, whether in this country or Iraq, is precisely the result of a world that has become a less safe and peaceful place in recent years.
We have worked without rest to remove the causes of such violence from our world. We argued, as did the Security Services in this country, that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners have now paid the price of the government ignoring such warnings.
We urge the government to remove people in this country from harms way, as the Spanish government acted to remove its people from harm, by ending the occupation of Iraq and by turning its full attention to the development of a real solution to the wider conflicts in the Middle East.
Only then will the innocents here and abroad be able to enjoy a life free of the threat of needless violence.
George Galloway, Respect MP for Bethnal Green and Bow
#2
"A real solution" ... hmmmm ... wtf would the venerable scum wordsmith MP suggest as appropriate appeasement and does he sincerely believe it would ever satisfy his kindred scum who rejoice in killing innocent civilians?
#5
"We extend our condolences to those who have lost their lives today and our heartfelt sympathy to all those who have been injured by the bombs in place name here London".
Standard form letter. Galloway knows bomb are bound to go off. He just has to push his point. Moronic bastard. He already got his 30 pcs of silver.
Posted by: john ||
07/07/2005 15:35 Comments ||
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#6
"and by turning its full attention to the development of a real solution to the wider conflicts in the Middle East."
That means eradicate Isreal and kill all the Jews, right Georgie? What a disgusting swine.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 13:42 Comments ||
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#5
Prolly so, Howard, but I did see a picture of a Brit cop with a nice machine gun...
You wonderful Englishmen might want to give our Second Amendment a serious look!
#6
I saw a gunship fly down Oxford St today. Awsome. The barracks on Albany Street did seem to be turning out too. Revolution ahoy.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 14:06 Comments ||
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#7
You wonderful Englishmen might want to give our Second Amendment a serious look!
No need for that, as their damned government has it all covered; set up more cameras in more places, and give more instruction on how to be a proper victim.
#10
Howard, keep clear and keep your ass safe. Right now, I bet Tommy's on the street, and in a mean mood. All the Brits I know here are: as one of them said:
"You yanks say 'There's people that need killing', and the bastards have now shown themselves back in dear old Blighty. They just took a big bite they will not live to regret."
Back to the job - you guys stay safe, and get home if you can, given that its hitting after-work.
Hat Tip Drudge...
By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jul 7, 7:14 AM ET
JERUSALEM - British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said.
Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had planned to attend an economic conference in a hotel over the subway stop where one of the blasts occurred, and the warning prompted him to stay in his hotel room instead, government officials said. Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said he wasn't aware of any Israeli casualties.
Just before the blasts, Scotland Yard called the security officer at the Israeli Embassy to say they had received warnings of possible attacks, the official said. He did not say whether British police made any link to the economic conference. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the nature of his position. The Israeli Embassy was in a state of emergency after the explosions in London, with no one allowed to enter or leave, said the Israeli ambassador to London, Zvi Hefet. All phone lines to the embassy were down, said Danny Biran, an Israeli Foreign Ministry official.
The ministry set up a situation room to deal with hundreds of phone calls from concerned relatives. Thousands of Israelis are living in London or visiting the city at this time, Biran said.
Amir Gilad, a Netanyahu aide, told Israel Radio that Netanyahu's entourage was receiving updates all morning from British security officials, and "we have also asked to change our plans." Netanyahu had been scheduled to stay in London until Sunday, but that could change, Gilad said. If Scotland Yard knew, then maybe they will have an indicator of the organizers.
#2
So this is another of those cases where the Joooos executed a plan to make the Muzzies look bad, but saved all their own folks. Ya know, like 9/11, right?
Posted by: Bobby ||
07/07/2005 12:20 Comments ||
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#3
Ah. Drudge from the AP. No wonder.
The debunking of this story is already about four hours old. The Israelis did NOT receive advanced warning. They got a call to stay put after the first bomb went off.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 12:22 Comments ||
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#4
Israel not 'warned of attacks' Israel was not warned about possible terror attacks in London before at least six blasts ripped through the city, Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom has said. A Foreign Ministry official had said earlier that British police warned the Israeli Embassy in London of possible terror attacks minutes before the first explosion.
"There was no early information about terrorist attacks," Shalom told Israel Army Radio. "After the first explosion an order was given that no one move until things become clear."
Israel Says All Its Information Came After the Blast Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - Israel's Finance Minister and former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was on his way to address British businessmen at a London hotel when the first bomb exploded in a nearby London Underground station Thursday morning. Israel denies reports that Netanyahu had received advance information about the attacks and was warned to stay away before the blasts happened. Israel's Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev dismissed those reports as "rubbish."
Regev said he wanted to make it unequivocally clear: "All our information was afterwards."
Netanyahu's advisor Amir Gilad explained what had happened in a radio interview.
"We were exactly on our way to the hotel [located over a subway station -- the first one to blow up-, Gilad said. "We were asked by the British security sources not to arrive at the hotel. Still it was not clear what was happening. We stayed in the hotel where we were guests," Gilad said. Netanyahu was due to open a large conference at the time of the explosion, Gilad added.
"Now we are receiving updates all morning from British security sources that are speaking about terror attacks in the underground train and also in buses throughout the city," he said. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had no immediate comment on the attack on London.
Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said that Israel was standing with the British at this time, and he said that Israel has long warned that terrorism is not only a problem for Israel but for the entire Western world. "Terrorism can attack every country in the world that has the ideology of freedom, of democracy," Shalom said in a radio interview.
Not that any one will believe it
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 12:29 Comments ||
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#5
So, what is the truth?
One source and another...
Here we go again...
The only thing about Netanyahu being told is that he just was told. Subway stations would be a logical thing to avoid owing to Spain, and the mass of British citizens? Probably there wasn't time to do any effective evacuation, and there warning was too vague to do coherant acting on anyway.
Fears that Muslims may be become the victims of reprisals following today's London bombings have prompted a warning for them to stay indoors. Massoud Shadjareh, chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, appealed for calm and condemned the bombings. He said: "The Islamic Human Rights Commission utterly condemns this attack, but now we appeal that there should be no further victims as a result of reprisals." There was no immediate confirmation of who was responsible for the attacks, but a claim was made on the Al-Qal'ah [Fortress] internet site, by a group calling itself the Secret Organisation Group of Al-Qaida of Jihad Organisation in Europe. Mr Shadjareh said some members of the Muslim community suffered a backlash following the September 11 2001 terror attacks in the United States, and the Madrid train bombing in March 2004.
Gee, I wonder why?>
He said he was "very concerned about a backlash" and called on British Muslims to "remain vigilant and calm and stay indoors". He said: "IHRC is advising Muslims not to travel or go out unless necessary, and is particularly concerned that women should not go out alone in this climate. "In the event of being attacked, IHRC urges victims not to retaliate and to report the matter to the police and appropriate authorities."
Dr Mohammed Naseem, chairman of the Birmingham central Mosque, questioned the advice and said it was "a bit over the top". Speaking on behalf of the city's sizeable Muslim community. "We are shocked and condemn without reservation this horrendous atrocity. Our hearts and minds go out to the innocent victims of this crime and we offer our condolences. We have to ask everybody to be calm and offer the government our support to apprehend the culprits," he said. But he expressed concern about the potential use of existing anti-terrorism legislation that has been criticised in recent years by the Muslim community.
Uh huh, there's always a ..."but,"
The government should be open about the evidence it has against potential suspects and not help foster a "climate of suspicion" about the Muslim community, he said. "There are dangers that if we work on the basis of suspicions, the harmony between communities will be the first victim of these attacks," he added.
The Muslim News, based in Harrow, Middlesex, unreservedly condemned the bombings in London. Its editor, Ahmed Versi, said: "We unequivocally condemn these terrorist attacks. We express our deep condolences to the families, relatives and friends of the victims."
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 10:57 ||
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I always wait for the "but"... and it always magically appears!
#4
The government should be open about the evidence it has against potential suspects and not help foster a "climate of suspicion" about the Muslim community, he said. "There are dangers that if we work on the basis of suspicions, the harmony between communities will be the first victim of these attacks," he added.
Go jump off a building, and enjoy your virgins, you creep.
#5
Sorry, Massoud dude, but my sympathy meter just melted from overuse.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/07/2005 11:47 Comments ||
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#6
we need to seperate backlash by vigilantes against ordinary folks, which we should denounce, and which are what the terrorists want, from deliberate actions by LE against "persons of interest" which, IMHO, are quite necessary and appropriate. I think one of the reason we had so little antimuslim violence after 9-11 was the decisive and visible response of LE, including the mass detentions. Whereas in the Netherlands there have been some deplorable instance of antimuslim violence, incidents that perhaps would have been averted by more decisive actions by LE against Muslim "persons of interest"
#7
LH, you're quite right but I'm still in the "Crank Up the Enola Gay" phase of my reaction to this.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/07/2005 12:06 Comments ||
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#8
Well said, 'Hawk. Part of me still wants to torch the Finsbury Park mosque, I must admit; but that wouldn't be "backlash by vigilantes against ordinary folks" -- more like "backlash by vigilantes against the bastards who did it."
Posted by: Mike ||
07/07/2005 12:07 Comments ||
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#9
Hey, at least the British Muslims issued statements openly condemning the attack. That's more than CAIR, et al bothered to do after 9/11. Yes, it isn't nearly as good as casting out the perpetrators and wannabes amongst them, but the realization that the community must openly take a position against such behaviour is a small step in the right direction... the direction in which Islam survives this war its hotheads started.
#12
Today, whilst clapping the emergency services who were tearing down the Euston Rd, I had a quick chat with the Turk who cooks my dinner and the Pakistani from the local corner shop. The conclusion: we have to get these bastards. Personally, I want to see Bhakri, Hamza, Choudary et al get lynched, damn soon.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 12:14 Comments ||
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#13
Stay indoors? Sensible advice.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 12:15 Comments ||
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#14
Yep, closed I believe. It was very effective, as we see. Taught them a thing or two. Maybe they'll track these guys down via the LE approach, got some camera gear which should help, and close down TWO this time!
"Give up Islam or go away," said Kalle. "Allah is a false god, and Mohammed was a blood-thirsty pedophile. The Koran is a recipe for slavery and death. Freedom and prosperity are incompatible with Islam."
#17
Scuse me, libhawk, but can you blame the Dutch if they reacted to Muslims that way???
(Of course, with the immigration problems they pose in the Netherlands, they weren't exactly popular before as most of them don't assimilate and tend to live on the welfare system, but then there was the Van Gogh murder...)
Theo van Gogh was stabbed and shot multiple times and then had his throat cut in public in daylight because he made a movie that was disrespectful to the Koran and Islam.
I'm not going to play holier than thou when it comes to those who react rather agressively to such aggressive murder.
And don't even get me started on how Muslims treat women!
If there are so many "moderate" Muslims that are against mass murder in the name of their god, as you keep insisting here, then why don't they come forward and really mean what they say?
Why didn't they do so after 9/11 here?
Why are they still mute and why do their words ring hollow?
Did Arafat ever convince you he was sorry that Jews were killed when he openly condemned the acts of the Intifada (that he planned, financed and executed) in English in the MSM????
#20
The Muslims living in the west need to do a great deal more before I trust them. For one I would like to hear about just one instance that a cleric or devotee uncovered and reported suspicious activity. So far everything we have has been from outside the community looking in, in some cases looking outside the country and following the trail back to the U.S. FYI the college hate fests sponsored by the local Muslim Student Associations donât help their case either. Integrate or go home!
Of course there is!
Islamic thought, broken down.
Radicals: Want to kill you.
Moderate: Want to conquer you and have you pay tribute.
Liberal: Want you to convert.
You are wrong. The only thing that muslims understand is brutality. There are need to be massacres of muslims in western countries for the latter to come out in force denouncing these acts of terror and for them to inform on the terrorists amongst them. Eveyone of them knows who these terrorists are but they will never tell on them because they agree with their actions.
8 years living in the Middle East taught me that!!!
#26
i blame people for attacking a Surinamese Mosque, when there it was unlikely that anyone from that particular mosque had anything to do with Van Goghs murder. As for immigration issues, they came from a Dutch colony, and I think already had citizenship.
"why don't they come forward and really mean what they say"
How could it be proven to you that they do mean what they say? How do I know you mean what you say?
Did I accept that Arafat was sorry? No, cause I watched his individual actions, and judged him accordingly. Did the people who commited arson against a Surinamese mosque in Holland actually watch the individual actions of members of that Mosque? I havent heard they did, but would be glad to see a link to evidence they did.
#27
Interesting post on the Europhobia blog (via Instapundit). Any thoughts from Rantburg's British contingent?
An observation:
Liverpool St/Aldgate East/Moorgate was all the same incident.
- this is near Brick Lane, with a sizable Bangladeshi/Muslim community.
Edgeware Road
- the heart of a major Arab/Muslim community
King's Cross/Russell Square and Woburn Place
- by the King's Cross Estate, with a sizable Bangladeshi/Muslim community, plus the School of Oriental and African Studies, one of the world's leading universities for the study of Islam (amongst others)
Was this intended to stir up anti-Muslim tension as much as anything? Otherwise the locations are rather bizarre - King's Cross and Liverpool Street, as major rail termini, make sense if you intend to cause maximum damage/casualties. Edgeware Road is near Paddington, another major station, so that could make sense too. But nothing at Charing Cross, Victoria, Waterloo etc. Nothing at Heathrow or Gatwick either. Odd. Why go for half measures?
#28
Please ignore idiots like Liberalhawk. Contrary to what some say, Iraq has not helped our recruiting, and is in fact turning Iraqi muslims, at least, away from us. There would be nothing like a good pogrom against muslims in London to get the muslim world riled up, and get us some more recruits, donations, assistance, etc. If at all possible make sure the pogrom is not aimed at institutions or individuals known to be affiliated with AQ, but aim it elsewhere, especially at groups that have no known sympathy for AQ - thats a double win - you get us help where we didnt have it before, and the folks who get hurt are ones we dont think of as real muslims anyway.
Posted by: Abu Zarqawi, on the run somewhere in Iraq ||
07/07/2005 13:57 Comments ||
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#29
lh, just admit it--you don't know sh*t about what goes on in Holland, do you?
Surinamese mosque, Siamese mosque, whatever:
until you've walked the walk, don't even think about talking the talk.
I didn't think you'd believed Arafat.
And why should I believe what you say?
Is it really possible that you're really such a pathetic excuser of Muslim atrocities and murder, looking for any reason to condemn White Christians no matter how obscure or irrelevant???
How can a Jew just excuse the adherents of an entire "religion" that calls members of your race "sons of pigs and monkeys"(this from Mohammed's book the Koran itself) and treats them accordingly???
How many more Jews (and now Christians and everybody else) must die before you'll stop giving these mass murderers a pass?
#30
Oh and liberal"hawk", you can believe what I say because I use my real name, unlike some here (ahem!) who hide their pseudo selves behind pseudonyms.
#31
The Command Post has maps. Scroll down. They've got a link set-up, but I'm too much of an end user to figure out how to use it -- especially under pressure.
#32
The problem lies not only with the terrorists, but also with the terrorist sympathizers and those, one more step removed, who sympathize with the sympathizers. Until the muslim community as a whole takes the attitude that there can be no support, no tolerance, and no covering for terrorism to any degree whatsoever, society will never be safe. And if they do not take that attitude on their own, the terror will continue and a day will come when the West will simply need to be purged of muslims, because no other way will be seen for protecting its citizens.
Posted by: sad truth ||
07/07/2005 14:07 Comments ||
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#33
" lh, just admit it--you don't know sh*t about what goes on in Holland, do you?
Surinamese mosque, Siamese mosque, whatever:
until you've walked the walk, don't even think about talking the talk."
Res ipso loquitur.
"I didn't think you'd believed Arafat.
And why should I believe what you say? "
you neednt. I dont ask anyone to take what I see on authority - I make arguments, you can agree with them or not as you like.
"Is it really possible that you're really such a pathetic excuser of Muslim atrocities and murder, looking for any reason to condemn White Christians no matter how obscure or irrelevant???"
I hate muslim atrocities, and some of my best friends are White Christians, really lovely people. White Anglo Saxon Christians, even.
Neither makes me ignore reality, however. Not all muslims are implicated in the atrocities some commit, and not all White Christians are decent human beings.
"How can a Jew just excuse the adherents of an entire "religion" that calls members of your race "sons of pigs and monkeys"(this from Mohammed's book the Koran itself) and treats them accordingly???"
well any Jew who takes his religion at all seriously knows there are things in OUR holy texts that can be, and ARE, taken out of context by Jew haters to make us appear intolerant and hateful. Whereas we know that such things must be looked at in context, and through traditional interpretations.
"How many more Jews (and now Christians and everybody else) must die before you'll stop giving these mass murderers a pass?"
I give no mass murderers a pass. I want the mass murderers hunted down and killed.
No one would use a name as long and hard to spell and pronounce as mine if they didn't own it, although I'm proud to say that my Taliaferro ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War, WWI and II, one died in the massacre at Goliad fighting for the Republic of Texas and they also fought (proudly) in the Civil War on the wrong side.
So, put up ( your intimate knowledge of Holland) or shut up!
Oh and as .com would say, Have a nice day.
You wanna carry water for Islamist killers, be my guest.
Exactly! And the only thing that will force them to denounce terrorism and tell on the terrorists is retaliation. I know it is wrong to wish the extermination of everyone of them but right now for our societies to survive, they, muslims, have to be taught a lesson that they will never forget.
I am so angry righ now that I can drop a nuclear bomb and enjoy watching them being evaporated from the face of the earth!
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 14:21 Comments ||
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#38
Howard, yes!
Talia="to cut"+ ferro="iron"
The family history says that the name may go back to ancient Rome as an honorary title for one of Caesar's guards who saved his life.
But we can't prove it.
#39
"In the main, though, London is a highly successful and thriving melting pot, and I would be very much surprised as well as appalled if there were any vengeance pursued against individual Muslims or mosques" - Christopher Hitchens.
#43
I must have missed something. I didn't see anything in what Liberalhawk said that even hinted at appologising for mass killers. I am very much opposed to vigilante actions as they tend to have the effect of "Kill them all and let God sort out the innocent". I'm descended from a long list of fighters as well, from the Scotts against the English (both sides) to Korea but I don't see what that has to do with anything on this thread. My name happens to be Richard Northington but whether or not I use my name has nothing to do with being truthful or being a liar. Northington happens to be a good old English name and I also can claim Stewart clanship. Whoopee-doo. I have to stand on what I do and achieve, not on what my forebears did.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/07/2005 14:48 Comments ||
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#44
Deacon, lh bemoaned (white Christian) Dutch becoming vigilantes and burning down a mosque...which was probably in the aftermath of Theo van Gogh's brutal murder as if they were just crazy vandals with no reason to be outraged except for hate of others different from themselves.
What he didn't say was as important as what he did say:
that the native, non-Muslim Dutch had a reason to be more than a little upset with the Religion of Pieces.
Just as the British today couldn't be condemned too hard if they did something similar.
I''m not saying it's right or excusable, just that it's understandable (If you don't believe me, ask the Hindus in Pakistan and India.)
What liberalhawk doesn't like us to say is that while not all Muslims are terrorists, all terrorists are Muslims.
And the "moderate" silent ones are letting their radical brethren get away with murder--literally.
Note also that the Dutch didn't blow up the mosque when it was full of "worshippers," they just burned the building down.
Big difference.
I still maintain that when we're through in this war, the practice of the religion of Islam will have to be banned from the face of the earth for all our sakes because it literally contains exhortations to kill "infidels" and to force everyone to submit to Islam or else.
Actually, Islamists invite what the Leftist Liberals would call "vigilantism" and a fierce response to their mass murder;
to wit, they won't stop bombing and killing until they're made to stop, usually by force and/or death.
These Dutchmen took the law into their own hands because they know their government won't do anything, which is usually how any group of vigilantes get started.
That's why I upbraided the hawkster that he had to be there to know what he was talking about.
(I wouldn't have thought it would be necessary to explain this to you, DB, but then today's kind of strange.)
#45
"I must have missed something. I didn't see anything in what Liberalhawk said that even hinted at appologising for mass killers."
You sure did. I suggested that vigilante actions against mosques were bad things that should be denounced. Ergo, I did not recognize that ALL muslims are guilty of ANY Crime commited by any muslims, cause theres some hateful lines in the Koran, which are regularly quoted by folks who dont know a stich of Arabic, arent familiar with muslim tradition, etc. Since I dont agree with the view that these lines, as literally interpretated, are the essence of Islam, and that this justifies any vigilante action against muslims, Im an apologist for MUSLIMS, and since Muslims commited the terror atrocities of which we speak, ergo Im an apologist for those atrocities. Who couldnt follow such logic?
Oh, and of course ANY religion MUST be interpretated based on its key text, interpretated literally, cause you know, Sole Scriptura, which was enunciated by Martin Luther, and applies to non-Christian religions, cause, er, well, for some good reason, Im sure.
Oh yeah, and i mention, by way of explaining the role of such lines in Islam, that there are antisemitic elements in Christian texts, or that Christians have been antisemitic, or done other bad things in the past, this PROVES i hate White Christians.
#46
"What liberalhawk doesn't like us to say is that while not all Muslims are terrorists, all terrorists are Muslims"
aye, an ah'll be chanting Koran down at the pub, after we kneecap some Protoboys, and blow up some department stores in London, allah be praised, Begorrah!
#47
"bemoaned (white Christian) Dutch becoming vigilantes and burning down a mosque...which was probably in the aftermath of Theo van Gogh's brutal murder as if they were just crazy vandals with no reason to be outraged except for hate of others different from themselves. "
1. I did not assume they were White Christians. There could have been Jews in that mob for all I know. Doesnt make any difference, I was condemning the act, not the race or religion of those who did it.
2. I fully understand that its a very human reaction, understandable at some level. I dont see how that is contradicted by saying it should be denounced.
#48
"These Dutchmen took the law into their own hands because they know their government won't do anything, which is usually how any group of vigilantes get started."
Of course if you actually READ what i posted, youd see I said that govt action is desirable, and would likely head off vigilantism, and that the problem in Holland may have been the absence of firm govt action.
#49
Darn those Fenians. At least you get 5 minutes. And they know a good pint.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 15:16 Comments ||
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#50
Well, hawkster, it's clear you know about as much about Islam as you do about Christianity and its giants like Martin Luther.
FYI, Martin Luther's biggest contribution to the Faith were his breaking with the sale of indulgences and his translation of the Scripture (including the Hebraic Old Testament) from Latin into the vernacular, then German.
As for Christians killing Jews, there was the Spanish Inquisition and then there was...?"
The supposed Scriptural justification for killing Jews? That they killed Christ. This is an old Catholic teaching, which I think the Vatican has since soundly repudiated.
Dont' look at me: I'm a life-long Protestant.
In my church, we were only taught respect for the Jewish people and this was never more evident than when I visited Israel in 1970 with a Baptist minister for a guide. You search the Bible and tell me where it says it's OK to kill or hate Jews!
Whereas I know that the Koran itself outright calls Jews the "sons of monkeys and pigs."
Jesus himself was Jewish, as was his mother and the rest of his family.
So was the apostle Paul, a converted Jew named Saul.
The New Testament and the Gospel of Christ is all based on the Jewish OId Testament, especially the Torah/Pentateuch.
You just want to argue and make yourself look magnanimous and sensitive to the members of this desert death cult.
That's cool, they could use a few useful idiots gratuitous apologists today of all days.
#52
"In the main, though, London is a highly successful and thriving melting pot, and I would be very much surprised as well as appalled if there were any vengeance pursued against individual Muslims or mosques" - Christopher Hitchens.
#53
LH I have weekly contact with a typical "Dutch Citizen." He is a liberal and socalist. He told me the Dutch Government will do nothing to solve the problems that muslims are causing in his counrty. One thing you never see reported is the violent crimes and rapes carried out by muslim that the police seem to ignore. The Dutch are fed up, he is fed up. BTW he works for the Dutch equivalent of our Justice Department. These people are unassimilated by their own choices and are a huge problem.
"...is particularly concerned that women should not go out alone in this climate." I don't think that in the UK any muslim woman need worry. However that advice might apply in the Netherlands for any woman not wearing a Burka.
As a decendent of some keepers of Thor's Holy Grove.... I think it is time to unleash... Odin's boys... Odin is in dire need of sacrifice. His bogs in Denmark have not been feeding him for over a 1000 years.. His method of feeding was the noose from the tree...
My ancestors were not of his worshipers... They just like putting on wolf & bear skins ...
(^8
#55
That's what I thought you meant. I don't agree that ALL terrorists are Muslims, either. Timothy McVeigh certainly wasn't, Kazinski isn't, Rudolph isn't. An awful lot of terrorists are Muslim but certainly not all. I've seen vigilatism first hand as I explained on another thread. I don't care who's doing it or for what reason, it's wrong. I don't believe Liberalhawk is a gratuitous apologist for Muslim Terrorists and that's not what he said. When I read something someone has written I tend to take it at face value and not to read anything into it that's not there. I am familiar with antisemitism in the Christian Church, even Protestants. There is nowhere in the "Bible" that promotes antisemitism but it was for a long time, at least in southern churches, openly promoted. So was racism against Black Americans. It doesn't have to be written down to be taught.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/07/2005 16:04 Comments ||
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#56
"As for Christians killing Jews, there was the Spanish Inquisition and then there was...?"
Lets see. The First Crusade, the massacre of the Jewish population of Jerusalem by the Crusaders. Massacres of the Jews of Europe along the crusaders route. Massacres in the 1200s in the Rhineland cities, destroying the largest Jewish communities in Western Europe. Massacres following the Black Death, in 1360 or so. The Chemielnicki pogroms in the Ukraine, 1690's. This is just pre-1700, and just off the top of my head.
"The supposed Scriptural justification for killing Jews? That they killed Christ. This is an old Catholic teaching, which I think the Vatican has since soundly repudiated.
Dont' look at me: I'm a life-long Protestant."
Ah, a religion of peace hijacked. Im a Jew. I dont decide which version of Christianity is authentic. Just as I dont decide which version of Islam is authentic. There are of course many lines in the NT that are quite negative about Jews, but dont call for their killing. Which kinda makes sense, since at the time the NT was written the Christians didnt control the state, unlike the muslims when the Koran was written. There are also some choice statements by the Patristic writers - you do know who they are? But for the most part the church was willing to let Jews live, but under restricted status. Kinda like Dhimmis in the Muslim world, , you know?
#57
"FYI, Martin Luther's biggest contribution to the Faith were his breaking with the sale of indulgences and his translation of the Scripture (including the Hebraic Old Testament) from Latin into the vernacular, then German."
So his pronouncements that salvation came only from faith "Sole fide" and that truth came only from Scripture "sole scriptura" were not central? Werent they the BASIS for his denial of indulgences, and his justification for translation of the bible (which, BTW, had been done in England years before, by Wycliffe)
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 17:03 Comments ||
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#59
Actually, Jennie, Martin Luther never forgave the Jews for refusing to convert to his version of Christianity en masse once he had laid it out for them to see, and he spent a good portion of his life urging the rightful authorities to wipe the Jews (and rebellious peasants) off the face of the earth.
Oh, and the Dutch as a group are about as post-Christian as the rest of Western Europe. I have friends over there, and so does my mother from her time spent in hiding during WWII, so you can take my statement as authoritative.
To Lh's list of Christian anti-Jewish acts, let me add the pogroms (massacres) by the Orthodox Russians at irregular intervals for the 200 years before the Russian Revolution, pogroms at irregular intervals by European Christians of various denominations inflamed by Easter sermons to get the Christ killers. Whenever possible the Jews of Europe requested permission to build walls around their ghettos -- not to keep their children in, but to keep the rampaging masses out.
But I don't hold this against the Christians of today. Except when they try to tell me that such things never happened, and that it proves that I'm anti-Christian for mentioning it. Ptah has written thoughtfully on this aspect of your shared religion. Please drop by his website, and think about what he has to say.
You have a lot of good to say, Jennie. Don't ruin it by attacking Liberalhawk. Even though you don't like his name, we are on the same side here.
#61
Burden of proof---why shouldn't Islam be destroyed? Yes, there are Muslims that aren't terrorists... yet, and there are Muslims that denounce Islamic terrorism but don't turn in the perpetrators... yet, and there are non-Muslims seemingly content to approach Islam as something more benign than the thoroughly destructive movement it is, and always has been.
What is so redeeming about Islam? Why shouldn't we be done with it, or at least away with it? Do we have to wait until every Muslim is a terrorist for the burden of proof to be satisfied?
And NO, you CANNOT approach a movement against Islam in the same way one argues against the sometime Christian persecution of Jews. That's bullshit.
Jews were never the aggressor; particularly not against Christians. Let's leave the religious tone at the door. Current negative sentiment towards Muslims is NOT primarily driven by Christian religious or racial motivations---it's because Muslims and Islam itself seems intrinsically aimed at KICKING OUR FRICKING ASSES, FOR THEN, NOW, AND EVERMORE!.
THAT'S why it's OK to be against Islam, AND Muslims.
Otherwise you're left with some bizarre, facile, argument; that Christians are against Islam/Muslims because they're Christian (somehow connected to Antisemitism, tenuously), Jews because they're Jews, and Hindus because they're Hindus.
In case I lost my point in a Joseph M. moment, if someone in here is saying that we can't persecute the Muslims because then we'll be just like the gawdawful horrible Crusaders persecuting the Jews---my point is that you've got it arse backwards.
#62
Which may or may not be a good thing, eh, Shipman? ;-)
Jennie, we are of an age, you and I, and I don't have the energy to do half the things you do. But when you do have a little time, take a look through The History of Christianity by the Christian British historian Paul Johnson. He's been known to write op-ed pieces for the Wall Street Journal and Forbes Magazine, among others, and his book provides a sobering look what people have thought and done for the last two thousand years in the name of your religion. Much as we all wish it were otherwise, the human beings who make up the Community of Christ have often enough found their reach exceeding their grasp.
In the meantime, I was awfully glad to see that London came through the rest of the day without further incident. Sleep well tonight, cousins, and may tomorrow be a happier day. I especially hope for many arrests, and lots of computers found with overflowing hard drives. God rest you all.
#66
Very tired, been very emotional, my brother (the copper in Central London - God only knows what he's seen today, he's still not able to phone out) and sister both ok.
A message to some friends who are getting antsy:- take it easy, please? I see some names that I've come to recognise and admire over some few years now getting really arsey with each other - not good.
Take care, sleep well (it's 2:30 am here and I've just realised it's a work day in 6 hours!) and let's nail those bastards tomorrow! :)
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/07/2005 21:25 Comments ||
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#67
Jews were never the aggressor; particularly not against Christians. Let's leave the religious tone at the door. Current negative sentiment towards Muslims is NOT primarily driven by Christian religious or racial motivations---it's because Muslims and Islam itself seems intrinsically aimed at KICKING OUR FRICKING ASSES, FOR THEN, NOW, AND EVERMORE!.
THAT'S why it's OK to be against Islam, AND Muslims.
By your own words, that's also why it was OK for Jews to be against Christianity and Christians.
So, a hypothetical: Jewish persons in the 1700s discovers a way to destroy or atleast "do away with" Christianity and Christians. Would you justify their actions? After all Christians and Christianity itself were proving for more than 1700 years that they were intrinsically aimed at kicking *Jewish* "FRICKING ASSES, FOR THEN, NOW, AND EVERMORE"!
#68
Last words and then I'm through.
( I've been up almost continually for the last 30 hours. I was just going to bed when news of the London bombings started.)
The Unabomber wasn't a Christian.
Tim McVeigh wasn't a Christian and he's been proven to have been working with Islamist terrorists from Saddam's Iraq although he took responsibility for OKC.
For more information, read Jayna Davis's fine book on this "The Third Terrorist."
Eric Rudolph may have called himself a Christian and have taken responsibility for the Atlanta Olympic bombings but I think he's lying in both cases.
However, if pressed, I will give him to you as *the lone* example of person who's a terrorist who professes to be Christian and not Muslim as I think it's clear he did carry out attacks on abortion clinics and doctors for "religious" reasons.
London's Mayor Ken Livingstone who is in Singapore for the IOC Session has condemned the attacks on the city's rail and bus systems. He said the London's security and emergency services are prepared for such acts, and have executed their operations efficiently. Mr Livingston criticised the blast as an "indiscriminate attempt at mass murder" and had strong words for those who committed the act. "This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful; it is not aimed at presidents or prime ministers; it was aimed at ordinary working class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christians, Hindu and Jew, young and old, indiscriminate attempt at slaughter irrespective of any considerations, of age, of class, of religion, whatever, that isn't an ideology, it isn't even a perverted faith, it's just indiscriminate attempt at mass murder, and we know what the objective is, they seek to divide London. They seek to turn Londoners against each other and Londoners will not be divided by this cowardly attack," said Mr Livingston.
He then had a message for the terrorists who had organised the explosions. "I wish to speak through you directly, to those who came to London to claim lives, nothing you do, how many of us you kill will stop that flight to our cities where freedom is strong and where people can live in harmony with one another, whatever you do, how many you kill, you will fail."
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 10:38 ||
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#1
Did you get everybody in there, Kenny? Of course, you know you're full of shit.
#2
Kenny may be full of the stinky stuff, but if you heard him say this (Laura Ingraham had a tape of it as I was coming to work) He sounds really pissed.
Did reality hit him in the face like a rotten mackerel? Did self-preservation finally step in to his pink brain? Only time will tell....
But attention spans are short, and ideology's important, if you haven't any thoughts of your own...
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 10:56 Comments ||
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#4
Musta missed that Galloway condemnation
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/07/2005 11:00 Comments ||
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#5
Funny you should ask, Frank...
Respect MP George Galloway says: "We argued, as did the security services in this country, that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such warnings."
#6
I have a serious problem with the "Jailhouse Conversion" thingy. Red ken is a communist / socialist / apologist / symp / facilitator fuckwit.
If the NYT was bombed, tomorrow morning, sure, they'd suddenly "get it". Better yet if they blew up Arthur Sulzberg and his entire family in his home. Bad guys? Check. We're with you... now.
But I ask you: Do we then accept them? After all they have done in sympathy with killers, do we say, "Oh, okay. It became personal for you, so now you understand. You added insult to injury for the families of the fallen, both victims and armed forces. You published assholes like Ted Rall. You've fellated the jihadis and mangled the language to call them militants and insurgents - instead of terrorists. You've aided and abetted them at every turn and in every way available to you as a cornerstone of the MSM. But suuuuure. C'mon in, and welcome!"?
No. You make your choices and you get to live with the consequences. Red Ken is a Galloway-grade major fuckwit, apologist, symp, and facilitator. Conside the damage done by words. As eLarson said in another thread: civilizations are not ovethrown... they commit suicide.
That happens by loss of resolve, loss of focus, drowning in moral equivalence games. These are the results of words. They are just as deadly as bullets and bombs.
Posted by: BA ||
07/07/2005 11:24 Comments ||
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#8
"We argued, as did the security services in this country, that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such warnings."
Translation: "I'd have preferred to cower in fear waiting for the barbarians to reach the gates rather than destroying them in their lair."
#9
Did Red Ken just imply it is OK for muslims to blow up the powerful in the West, like the London mayor's office? He is truly worth sentencing to a lifetime of pentinence in Iran.
Posted by: ed ||
07/07/2005 11:30 Comments ||
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#10
And so he did, B-a-r, so he did. Now what does he do? They're not only at the gates, they're inside, blowing up constituents.
#12
5 will get you 10 they both call for an immediate withdrawl of British troops from Afghanistan and Iraq.
Posted by: too true ||
07/07/2005 11:33 Comments ||
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#13
.com, while skepticism is justified, I'm inclined to give the guy a chance to do the right thing. A convert is a convert is a convert; the prodigal son was welcomed home. Cf. Norma McCorvey; Bernard Nathanson.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/07/2005 12:00 Comments ||
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#14
"This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful; it is not aimed at presidents or prime ministers; it was aimed at ordinary working class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christians, Hindu and Jew, young and old, indiscriminate attempt at slaughter irrespective of any considerations, of age, of class, of religion..."
So were the attacks against civilians in Israel, like the ones endorsed by Yusuf al-Qaradawi (for instance).
And the Islamic terorists in Iraq have killed far more Iraqi civilians than they have American troops.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
07/07/2005 13:46 Comments ||
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#15
*applause*
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 16:30 Comments ||
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#16
I fucking despise this man - may he be infested with flesh-eating bacteria - starting with his nose.
Sorry, not very eloquent - leaving that to .com (superb piece at #6 sir!) and others, but by the Lord Harry this man is a turd, 'an attack against the working class'? - what a fucker!, this man has been a politician (aka leech on the pubic purse) since the early 80's! - superb working class credentials there Ken old son.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/07/2005 21:37 Comments ||
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Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan," said the statement, which was translated by The Associated Press in Cairo. "The heroic mujahedeen carried out a blessed attack in London, and now Britain is burning with fear and terror, from north to south, east to west." Gloves Off Now Deport All The Clerics like Hamza and Bakri.
#5
I saw we carpet bomb certain areas of Pakistan that we are not allowed to tresspass in, do it with the antiquated F-14's the US has been decommissioning. Oh, but paint them with Iranian colors first. Makes sure they get low enough to be seen, and perhaps have one geared to fly remotely and crash it so the 'evidence' of Iranian involvement can be found.
And of course deny everything and work with Mushariff to determine what/who is responsible.
#6
what a difference a day makes. to be celebrating yesterday the joy of having the games, and now the tragic terror of today. My thoughts and prayers are with all of the Londoners and their families.
If there is any good to come of this, maybe it will strengthen our reserve and other countries commitment by supporting the war on terror.
Posted by: Jan ||
07/07/2005 12:45 Comments ||
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#7
Kipling and the British have always understood how to deal with this.
"The Grave of the Hundred Head"
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.
#13
Find those who planned it, find those who supported it, find those who supplied the explosives, find those who financed it. Kill them all. No mercy.
The BBC has located an Islamist website that has published a 200-word statement issued by an organisation saying it carried out the London bombings. The organisation calls itself the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda of Jihad Organisation in Europe. The group not previously been heard of. The website has previously carried statements purporting to be from al-Qaeda. It is not possible to verify such claims published on the web. This is the full text of the statement.
In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and undaunted fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.
Nation of Islam and Arab nation: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge against the British Zionist Crusader government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The heroic mujahideen have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.
We have repeatedly warned the British Government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.
We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.
God says: "You who believe: If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly."
Jihadi planting season now open
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 09:13 ||
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#1
Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.
Must've passed my office by, that 'burning panic'. You in the pub yet, Howard? Dickless wankers.
#2
The peace-loving portion of the Muslims in Britain have just had their lives made more difficult. Let's see if any of them will stand up an renounce this violence in the name of their "God, the merciful, the compassionate". Somehow I doubt it.
Posted by: Tom ||
07/07/2005 9:44 Comments ||
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#3
Two words: Guy Fawkes.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 9:45 Comments ||
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#4
Note how they refer to theses cowardly bombing as "military raid", blessed even! Disgusting! Thees absolute bastards cannot set a working society, therefore cannot stand up in a battlefield, they cannot even run up a successful guerilla... so to them the only way is to strike at defenseless civilans, by surprize and anonymously.
They live in a world of their own, where they are the lions of islam, the Master Religion reigning over all humanity with its divine law and perfect society.
That really depresses me... we're going to lose, I mean Europe, probably in the long run, through demography, cultural relativity, lack of will and the occasionnal terror used to further the non-violent conquest by reminding us we are dhimmis living in insecurity... and we are not going to lose to a superior civilization, but to a failed one we best in every aspect... damn.
I read the response of Tony Blair; very good, he may be a socialist, I still respect him.
#5
seven words to peaceful muslims:
"Get the f*ck out while you can"
turn the soccer "fans" loose on the moskkks
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/07/2005 9:59 Comments ||
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#6
There's a part of me that really really wants to see this place put to the torch in retaliation for the attack. Wouldn't shock me if the attackers were members.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/07/2005 10:02 Comments ||
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#7
it'd be a start, Mike. Europe needs to look at ejecting the ghetto'd muslims back to their "land of sharia"
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/07/2005 10:18 Comments ||
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#8
The apparent mood in London: shock and quiet anger. The anger will build as time goes on and the shock wears off...
Pissing off the tiny island that once conquered half the world is probably not a very good idea.
Unlike here in the USA, i understand that criminal investigations in Britain's system when there is a threat to the nation as a whole can have persons arrested go to "certain sections" of police stations. Things can happen to those detained which make Guantanimo accusations look like Sunday School.
Let's hope some of these shadow units have picked up a few snakey Imams from pro-al-Qaeda Mosques for a little "chat"...
#10
Only the lowest of scum could consider it a time to rejoice when innocent civilians are senselessly murdered in the name of some god. European muslims (as well as those here in America) would do well to look at themselves and their community in order to make some choices and take a stand for their adopted homes before the opportunity to choose is lost. The average european, even the liberal types, are surely starting to view their unintegrated and fundamentalist muslim populations in a different light now if they haven't already.
#11
agree that the peaceful Muslims need to speak up, and expect that they won't. But let's not turn our anger to those not responsible and keep the focus on those who are. The sad thing is that the security services have a good idea who those people are and do far too little to deport or expose them.
The hate sermons have to stop. Allowing them to continue is insanity. Every sermon in every mosque needs to be visited, recorded and translated for the rest of us to hear. When they call for death, then their tax status needs to be revoked and their pastors punished for sedition or for inciting violence.
That said, it is important that we don't blame those who are not responsible.
All whites, make that most whites, were not responsible for the actions of the KKK. But many were guilty of not speaking up - mostly due to fear or tradition. What ended the KKK was holding those who were responsible accountable for their crimes.
#12
2b,
Until whites worship the KKK manual as the final word of god, and worship the Grand Wizard as the perfection of Man worthy of the emulation in the most minute detail, I find your attempt at moral equilavence disgusting. Let the fate of Islam be the same as that of Nazism.
Posted by: ed ||
07/07/2005 11:25 Comments ||
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#13
oh please. Is this really what you want to see? link
I have no idea what I might have done without Saint 2b's digital digit waggin in my face. I prolly would've run amok, bombing buses in Muzzyville. Saved.
#15
make up your mind, .com. First I'm cold hearted because I'm sick of Natalee Halloway stories, now I'm St. 2b. because I make a comment about the fact that I feel bad that ordinary Muslims need to stay indoors. You just going to follow me around and write pissy comments now?
#16
Meanwhile, a poster at Daily Kos says a would-be suicide bomber was shot dead in the Canary Wharf area.
Posted by: too true ||
07/07/2005 11:47 Comments ||
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#17
2b,
I found your comment #11 to be fine until the last paragraph. This moral equivalence is killing western civilization. It leads to confusion and paralysis in the face of a relentless religious enemy who would genocide all of this this minute if they had the capability. Instead, they one or two at a time in Thailand, hundreds in Europe, 3000 in New York, hundreds of thousands in Africa, until the day they have the capability once again to kill millions.
One final question. Do you really think many US whites are waiting to join the KKK if only others would not hold them accountable? I ask as someone who is less than 50% white.
Posted by: ed ||
07/07/2005 11:53 Comments ||
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#18
2b, I see your are on the right side. I just wish you had focused more. The KKK comment has the effect of spreading the blame of this atrocity in London. Sorry for my outburst.
Posted by: ed ||
07/07/2005 11:57 Comments ||
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#19
2b - I didn't say that - didn't even imply it.
I said you were a shrill ass. Then added pompous to shrill ass. Here - re-read it.
As for following you around, lol, no I read all of the threads here at RB. If you happen to be acting like an asstard, well, I'll probably say so.
Newsflash: You aren't the conscience of RB, yet you seem to think you are somehow empowered to wag your finger at everyone - even when that haven't said anything to justify it. Your over-the-top uber-sensitivity is just wanking.
LOL! Pissy is your gig. That you don't see it is hysterical. ed nailed you to the wall, yet you go into screechy mode repeating it - as if he was just dense. He wasn't dense, he was right. I read it and sigh, "here we go again...".
#20
ed.. I've long said that I think the Muslim religion, with its emphasis on blame is responsible for many of the ills in Muslim society.
I get your point about whites joining the KKK and it's vaild. But I just believe that most Muslim people want to go about living their lives and are either influenced by Whabbi leaders or are afraid to speak up in the same way that whites were afraid to speak up back in the 1920's.
#21
Fine .com. If it is your mission in life to let me know that I am a shrill and pompus ass, go to it. By the way, I don't think you picked a particularly good example since it was you wanking at me for saying "true, but"
But whatever. I'm a shrill and pompus ass. I'm ok with that.
#22
Me too. The "true...but", in context, made the point, and you still miss it.
Today you started here, in comment #2. Not even a hint of anything like you post but, eyes flashing, you post this little finger waggin BS link. When it's justified, fine. When it's not, then focus on what is actually going on. That's not too much to ask.
#25
What makes you think I was directing my comments towards you or towards ed. The headline of an article on rantburg was that Muslims need to stay indoors. I think that's a shame. I was just making a comment. If you think I was somehow implying that YOU were to blame, then what can I say?
#26
Sure enough there are many citizens and residents of the UK who are good people and happen to be muslim. Fact of the matter is that it is their religion being used as justification for senseless violence against innocent civilians. If they care for their adopted home, the values that make it what it is, and the role of their faith in that society they must step up and act. The failure to do so is inexcusable and will be held against them by alot of people for a long time and in many different ways far more damaging that ugly blind violence. It is very predictable.
#27
I didn't think it was directed at me. Sheesh. It was an unnecessary bit of your "I Am The Voice Of Conscience" routine. Y'know, the one that rubs the first time, chafes the second, and generates pain every time thereafter. Rest it. We know you care. So do we. We care more about the victims than the perps, yes, but we care about getting the right people, too.
Never mind. We're getting nowhere. You have your selected gig and you're happy with it. I will do what I do, too.
#28
The failure to do so is inexcusable and will be held against them by alot of people for a long time and in many different ways far more damaging that ugly blind violence.
well said, racoon. Despite being a shrill and pompus ass, I completely agree with what you have said.
#29
2b, I lived near Selma, Alabama in the 60's when the Selma to Monygomery march was made, lived 3 miles from the site where Viola Liuzo? was murdered, and lived in the same county where several other people were murdered. I understand your comment about Muslims being afraid to speak out like whites were afraid to speak out against the Klan. I lived it. However, I do think that the fact more Muslims don't speak out against the violence is not because they are afraid but that jihad and killing infidels is a part of their religion. They wouldn't do these things themselves but wont decry others doing them. I know former Klan members who would not commit acts of violence themselves but didn't condem the acts of the Klan as a whole. I don't know how it is now but the Klan WAS a type of religion with chaplains and an organization of rituals that included prayer and christian symbols; ie. the cross. They believed it was the white man's destiny to rule the Earth under their interpretation of the Christian Bible and violence was a means to that end. In that respect they were not much different than the Islamofascists. The extermination of Jews, homosexuals, Catholics, and numerous other ethnic groups was part of the plan. They didn'r advocate extermination of Americans of African decent, just total subjugation. If they had been more organized nationally they would have been MUCH more dangerous than they were.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/07/2005 12:25 Comments ||
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#30
RFH - right on the money. A "statement" followed by... nothing... is bullshit. If they were to take the lead - by helping the police track these assholes down, tip them off regards others who are also planning mayhem, and continually move toward becoming good citizens, instead of standing back, making the occasional noise, and nothing more.
There are active asshats, and a pool of potential asshats, waiting to be tapped for duty. That has to change - or they get to take the heat for the actions of those they implicity support by their inaction.
#32
It's their choice at the moment but silence over the short period of time available will forclose that choice and they will be left to live with the consequences and by that I don't mean the blind violence of bigots. Talk about fear of speaking up is nonesense. If they have a productive contribution to the growth and protection of the society they enjoy they must act affirmatively otherwise they will be marginalized and demonized and quite rightfully so I might add. They need to defend the society they live in and preserve their place in it. The issue's been pressed upon them not of their volition but regardless, they can't ride the fence or choose apathy with impunity under the circumstances existing. Time to figure out who and what they really are and what it is they truly cherish because the rest of the society in which they live has already done so with regard to itself.
#33
Deacon Blues - you have an awesome picture colletion by the way.
Although I feel somewhat backed into a corner, I am the first to agree with what you say. We are in the fight for our lives.
I have in my own immediate family, Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, and in my extended family, buddhists. With that being said, I've come to the conclusion that there is good and evil and it is in each of us.
My beautiful six year old neice is a Muslim. I don't want anyone stoning her - or her mother. Her mother is easily led - but she is not evil.
Maybe that's why, as a shrill and pompus ass, I advocate taking the high road . And I know that's why I chose Christianity. Human nature can sink really low.
#35
Thanks, 2b. I guess you've been to Flickr. What my experience growing up in Alabama during the Civil Rights era did was to make me look at myself and decide what my own path would be. I consider myself a spiritualist based on the teachings of the Jewish teacher Yeshua. My opinion of Muslims is based on knowing the ones I've worked with, and not a more intimate knowledge.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
07/07/2005 13:07 Comments ||
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#36
Thanks, DB. There is right and there is wrong. None of us are above it.
#37
"Newsflash: You aren't the conscience of RB, yet you seem to think you are somehow empowered to wag your finger at everyone - even when that haven't said anything to justify it. Your over-the-top uber-sensitivity is just wanking."
most of us do finger wagging at stuff we dont like here - youve done the same, dot com.
as for ubersensitivity,let me try to speak on behalf of RB "moderates" anyone who is REALLY a kumbaya ubersensitive type doesnt post here, or comes to troll for a bit and leaves. The "moderates" here are ALL basically hardline, dont tread on me types who tend to get called "right winger" "imperialist" and "fascist" in certain other places. We just have somewhat different approaches to how we define the enemy than some others do.
#39
Will someone please tell the FBI, Scotland Yard, etc NOT to keep secret the identities of muslims who provide them with tips and other assistance. Please make their names public, as our friends have some special "rewards" for such people.
Posted by: Ayman al Zawahiri, a safe house in beautiful downtown Karachi ||
07/07/2005 14:40 Comments ||
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#40
Gosh. I guess I was wrong, cuz your spiffy description equates a clear case with a generality. How touchy-feely and ubersensitive of you and Illogical... It's Inductive... now is it Slothful Induction or Unrepresentative Sample?
Your statement that you are an RB "moderate" and that you have some right to speak for moderates here is comical. I would not call you a moderate - and don't accept your assertion. Thus, what follows is flawed, IMO. You do use moderated language, but the content is liberal. Your defense of Levin, for example, was precious. He's just taking a different tack, he's not abandoning the game of Kennedy, et al. Pfeh. Nice try, though. BTW, your claim is called Prejudicial Language.
And how do I know? Well perfect knowledge is not mine, I agree, and they may help at times... but there is the small matter of today's events, however. Again you appeal to Prejudicial Language, not fact.
#42
My opinion of Muslims is based on knowing the ones I've worked with, and not a more intimate knowledge
And mine is from working with many of them, doing business in multiple muslim countries and speaking with people I know intimately who have even more extensive experience than I.
How sweet that you don't want your lovely neice and her mom stoned. I'm not big on that either. So it is fucking time for muslim leaders to take effective ACTION to end the terror that is plotted in their communities, funded by them, abetted by them and tacitly or openly supported by them.
Because a whole bunch of us have been around muslim countries long enough to know what's what -- and we won't be easily bullshitted on this one.
Posted by: too true ||
07/07/2005 16:03 Comments ||
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#43
"Your statement that you are an RB "moderate" and that you have some right to speak for moderates here is comical. I would not call you a moderate - and don't accept your assertion. Thus, what follows is flawed, IMO. You do use moderated language, but the content is liberal. Your defense of Levin, for example, was precious. He's just taking a different tack, he's not abandoning the game of Kennedy, et al. Pfeh. Nice try, though. BTW, your claim is called Prejudicial Language"
I didnt say Levin was my favorite Dem, hes not. Nor did I say I agreed with him. I stand by what i said about his statement.
I am of course a liberal on domestic matters - actually id say more of a new democrat with Social democrat tendencies, but that would be too confusing, so I go by this nick. But on the WOT ive been a consistent hawk, supporting OIF from day one, and defending it since. I even refused to vote for Kerry based on his Iraq stance.
All I am saying is not all of us who disagree on somethings are ubersensitive hippies. Some folks here are into "red meat" so to speak. Well just cause I like my meat well done, doesnt make me a vegetarian, if you get my drift. Or is that too nuanced an approach to cooking?
#44
"Your statement that you are an RB "moderate" and that you have some right to speak for moderates here is comical. I would not call you a moderate - and don't accept your assertion. Thus, what follows is flawed, IMO. You do use moderated language, but the content is liberal. Your defense of Levin, for example, was precious. He's just taking a different tack, he's not abandoning the game of Kennedy, et al. Pfeh. Nice try, though. BTW, your claim is called Prejudicial Language"
I didnt say Levin was my favorite Dem, hes not. Nor did I say I agreed with him. I stand by what i said about his statement.
I am of course a liberal on domestic matters - actually id say more of a new democrat with Social democrat tendencies, but that would be too confusing, so I go by this nick. But on the WOT ive been a consistent hawk, supporting OIF from day one, and defending it since. I even refused to vote for Kerry based on his Iraq stance.
All I am saying is not all of us who disagree on somethings are ubersensitive hippies. Some folks here are into "red meat" so to speak. Well just cause I like my meat well done, doesnt make me a vegetarian, if you get my drift. Or is that too nuanced an approach to cooking?
#50
This is the game of footy where you put all petty enmities aside and concentrate on the larger foe. FFS.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 16:54 Comments ||
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#51
ehbfv - Would it make your brain explode to realize that the IRA funding you're talking about came from guys like Kerry and Kennedy? That the vast remainder of the US had no clue it was even going on?
IRA support is no different than contributing to Muzzy charities or paying zakat to some asshole imam who spews hate every Friday. You'll get no argument from me. Down in Texas we didn't think the IRA killers were romantic or heroic people fighting occupation - we knew them as murderers and terrorists.
The reason it lasted so long and was so costly in lives and property was the insistence on a mainly law enforcement approach - when it was actually a bona-fide guerilla war. The difference between the untapped Muzzy - the one who lets jihadis hide in his home or donates to their support - and the assholes who aided and abetted the IRA? None. Zero. Zilch.
#54
Lol! And you, pathetic imbecile that you are, stewing in your bile and terminally deranged, make a neanderthal killer like me look positively spiffy, thanx! Fuck off, asstard.
#57
Rantburg⦠A bunch of hypocritical jingoistic dipshits.
Support terrorism - oooh it came home - hate terrorism.
Fuck over Africa for cash â who cares
After 9 11 most IRA activity stops â who in the US said stop?
Use more than you produce â canât go on forever â you will find out one day
Most Americans donât know where Iraq even is â but they think it had a part in 9 11
Did Spain vote because of Madrid? No you stupid arrogant fuckers. Learn something about the situation in Spain; the Peopleâs Party was not the party of the people. The Spanish are quite a pragmatic people and the bombs would have made little difference to the way they were feeling about the arrogant little shit in charge.
And on and onâ¦
You canât just think the world is here to pander to your whims. Learn from the past, look long term not just the next buck.
#58
You dumb puddle of pig feces ehbfv. Who the hell is screwing over Africa for money? Why it's the nations of Europe, their former colonial masters and exploiters. Those imperalists who left Africa in the state it's in, toss in the Arab islamifiers and slavers and you have the sorry state you have now.
The US never had a Colony in Africa. In fact the US has never had a colony anywhere. That one point of fact discounts anything you might have to say here. Get your head out of you pigs arse and wake up you fool. Be gone.
Damn. Accounts from people who witnessed the explosions in central London today
"I was on the bus in front and heard an incredible bang, I turned round and half the double decker bus was in the air ... It was a massive explosion and there were papers and half a bus flying through the air, I think it was the number 205. There must be a lot of people dead as all the buses were packed, they had been turning people away from the tube stops. We were about 20 metres away, that was all."
â Belinda Seabrook, who was on a bus travelling from Euston to Russell Square, London
"The explosion seemed to be at the back of the bus. The roof flew off and went up about 10 metres. It then floated back down. I shouted at the passengers to get off the bus. They went into Tavistock Park nearby. There were obviously people badly injured. A parking attendant said he thought a piece of human flesh had landed on his arm."
â Raj Mattoo, 35, who was standing on a street corner near Tavistock Square
"I was walking along. There was a whole crowd of people around the bus. The next thing I knew I was on the floor. There was shedloads of glass raining down. Someone fell on me and someone fell on him. For a moment I thought I was going to be trampled. I picked myself up and everyone was running. There was glass everywhere. We ran into a building and a security guard was saying 'get in, get in'. Then the security guard said 'get out' which was a bit scary." (When asked about the possibility of a terrorist attack): "I saw the bus ripped out at the back ... it couldn't have been anything else."
â Unnamed eyewitness in Tavistock Place area
"People were running this way panicked. They knew it was a bomb. Debris flying all over, mostly glass."
â Jay Kumar, owner of a news agent near the site of the bus blast in Russell Square
"I have been in the military and I've never heard anything like it before. But the whole incident was screened by trees in front of the hotel which maybe protected us from any blast."
â Chris Gladysz, hotel worker, Tavistock hotel
"There was a big blast followed by the sound of people screaming. I rushed to the window and it was just unbelievable. From what I saw the top half of the bus had been blown off. And people were wandering around in a daze."
â Unnamed woman, Tavistock Square
"I got off the train, walked off about five paces. There was a huge, I mean a huge, explosion which appeared to come from the back end of the train or the tunnel. Everybody just froze - what the hell's going on? Then everybody walked out of the station quite calmly ... There was no pushing. I went upstairs and got out. It was then you think how lucky you are."
â Michael Searle, had just got off a Circle Line train from Victoria to Liverpool Street
"Everything was normal. Suddenly there was a massive bang, the train jolted. There was immediately smoke everywhere and it was hot and everybody panicked. People started screaming and crying."
â BBC worker, Jacqui Head, who was on a Piccadilly Line train at King's Cross
#2
Just got off the phone with a London co-worker. She said 45 confirmed dead, near 1000 injured. Scotland Yard investigating multiple suspected (unexploded) bombs in other tube stations.
#3
God rest them and let's hope that their deaths were quick and that the count doesn't go up any more.
One would have been too many.
We're praying for the victims and their families and loved ones over on this side of the Big Pond.
My heart goes out to those who were hurt or killed, or have loved ones who were casualties of this cowardly attack.
first numbers: 10 dead, 160 wounded at Kings Cross station. no numbers from elsewhere yet.
Large numbers of casualties have been reported after at least six explosions on the Underground network and a double-decker bus in London. UK Home Secretary Charles Clarke said several explosions in central London had caused "terrible injuries".
The BBC's Frank Gardner said Arab sources said the blasts were probably the work of al-Qaeda but police have not confirmed a terrorist link.
All Tube services and bus services in central London have been suspended.
London police chief Sir Ian Blair urged people to stay where they were and not to call emergency services unless it was a life-threatening situation. Sir Ian said there had been "many casualties" but said it was too early to put a figure to those killed or injured and he reassured the public that an emergency plan was in place and the situation was "steadily coming under control".
Mr Clarke told reporters outside Downing Street: "The health services are in support to deal with the terrible injuries that there have been." Sir Ian Blair said there had been at least six explosions, but said the picture was still "very confused".
Scotland Yard said explosions have been reported at Edgware Road, King's Cross, Liverpool Street, Russell Square, Aldgate East and Moorgate.
IIRC, this would paralyze all traffic into the major office and financial areas of London ... Same goal as the 9/11 attacks.
Number 10 said it was "still unsure" whether the explosions were a terrorist attack and although casualties were reported, no further details were yet available. Prime Minister Tony Blair is to make a live televised statement on the explosions in London at 1200 BST, Downing Street added.
All London Underground services have been suspended indefinitely and bus services in central London (Zone One) have been halted.
A spokesman for Vodafone said emergency services were being given priority access to the mobile phone network which was causing problems for other users.
One caller to BBC Five said his friend had seen "the bus ripped open like a can of sardines and bodies everywhere".
Loyita Worley, who works for a City law firm, said she was on the underground train when an explosion took place in the next carriage, while it was in a tunnel. The 49-year-old said: "All the lights went out and the train came to an immediate halt. There was smoke everywhere and everyone was coughing and choking, but remained calm. We couldn't open the doors." Once the doors were opened they were taken along to Liverpool Street station.
She said the carriage where an explosion happened was "black on the inside" she saw people who appeared to have their clothes blown off, and she saw bodies lying inside the carriage.
And the Press Association quoted union officials as saying sources had told them there had been at least one explosive device on the Underground.
British Transport Police said incidents took place at Aldgate, Edgware Road, King's Cross, Old Street and Russell Square stations. Scotland Yard confirmed they were assisting with a "major incident" and said there were casualties.
Hospitals have said they are no longer accepting non-emergency cases, BBC Five Live reported. The National Grid, which supplies power to the Underground, said there had been no problems with its system which could have contributed to the incidents.
Jacqui Head, from BBC News, who had just left King's Cross station on a Piccadilly Line train as an explosion happened, said: "Everything was normal. Suddenly there was a massive bang, the train jolted.
"There was immediately smoke everywhere and it was hot and everybody panicked. People started screaming and crying." The train was kept in the tunnel for 20 minutes and no announcement was made to explain the delay to passengers, she added.
Liberal Democrat MP Simon Hughes, near Kings Cross, told Five Live: "My only thought in the midst of all this confusion is that after the celebration of yesterday (for the Olympic 2012 London success) for people to be evil enough - if it is the intentional causing of death and injury - and think that they can justify this in any circumstances is completely unacceptable."
" if it is the intentional causing of death ..."??? What else could it be, Mr. Hughes?
London Fire Brigade said four crews were at Liverpool Street and more were on their way.
Another passenger, who had left the Tube at Fenchurch Street Station, and walked to Aldgate East, told BBC Five Live that he saw injured people. "As I walked through the bus station I could see people lying on the ground, black, as if they'd been covered in smoke. There were about three or four people on the floor being treated."
Eyewitness Paul Woloszyn from BBC News, who was at Blackhorse Road station on the Victoria Line, said: "We were told there was a bomb at Liverpool Street station. "I was on the Tube, and they stopped the train and told everyone to get off and evacuate the station." He said staff had said the entire Tube network had been affected, and leaflets had been handed out with details of alternative bus routes.
Another eyewitness, Dorothy Molloy, had been on a Tube train at King's Cross and said "staff just chucked everyone out of the station". She said staff there had not given any details, but she said two passengers she had spoken to had said they had received messages saying there had been bombs. "People didn't really know what was going on, they were just huffing and puffing and saying how annoying it was," she said.
"People don't seem to be panicked, but there's so many police and ambulances coming into the areas. People are just concerned, and some are just annoyed at the delay."
CNN is reporting double digit deaths in one station; no numbers from the other sites yet. Two of the bombs went off between stations.
these were to timed & targeted to kill/terrorise. I know the Brits will deal w/ these fanatic fascist fools...the retarded ones just wrote another chapter in their book ...."How to win friends and rally the superior civilizations against us"
God bless you Brits!
Posted by: Red Dog ||
07/07/2005 7:42 Comments ||
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#5
Gloves are off. Educate yourselves, deport these people.
08.49 - Emergency services called to London's Liverpool Street Station after reports of an explosion on the Metropolitan Line between Liverpool Street and Aldgate. Reported as "some kind of power surge".
08.50 - Police called to Aldgate station, east London.
09.22 - King's Cross, Liverpool Street and Aldgate stations cleared.
09.31 - The incident caused major disruption to the entire network with stations across the capital being closed.
09.33 - London Underground said that there has been "another incident at Edgware Road" station in north west London.
09.53 - Mainline train company First Great Western said its services into London's Paddington station were terminating at Reading in Berkshire because of the Underground crisis.
10.00 - The National Grid, which supplies power to the Underground, said there had been no problems with its system this morning which could have contributed to the incidents.
10.13 - Union officials said their sources had told them there had been at least one explosive device on the Underground. One explosion happened at Edgware Road and there were suggestions of two other explosions at King's Cross and Aldgate.
10.14 - Reports of a bus being ripped apart in an explosion in central London.
10.19 - Mainline services were being halted short of London. The Silverlink company, which normally operates into Euston station, was terminating trains at Watford Junction in Hertfordshire.
10.25 - Union sources said they had received reports of explosions on three buses in central London.
10.32 - Mainline London to Scotland train company GNER said it did not expect its East Coast Main Line services to run as far as London at any time today.
#7
First, my thoughts and prayers for the lost and injured are with the UK this morning. Normally I wouldn't presume to speak for 295 million people, but I think I can safely say this morning that we are beside you.
Now, please, PLEASE - start deporting and imprisoning the monsters in your midst who provided aid and comfort to this atrocity. Until you do, there will be no safe place. They want us all dead, and will continue to mouth words of peace and coexistence until they slit the last of our throats.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
07/07/2005 8:14 Comments ||
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#8
My heart goes out to the people of London and their nation. Hope all our UK posters are Ok.
#13
Time to put aside the British reserve and get aggressive. They want us dead. It's that simple. They can blame the attacks on support for the Coalition but the attacks will continue on England as they have in Spain after capitulation. Fight on mighty England fight on.
#15
Nick Robertson on CNN just said that British intelligence report 50 people who were being closely tracked have disappeared - fled the country or otherwise gone to ground. This in the context of a discussion of Al Qaeda involvement in the bombings.
Also: at least one of the Underground explosions went off just as 2 trains were passing one another. Suicide bomber there as well as on the bus??
#17
Nick Robertson on CNN just said that British intelligence report 50 people who were being closely tracked have disappeared - fled the country or otherwise gone to ground.
If true, this illustrates the idiocy of just following people around. If you know they're involved, grab them and send them someplace unpleasant.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 9:12 Comments ||
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#18
My sympathies for the British and outrage directed against the adherents of a pseudoreligion that promotes, executes, and justifies such atrocities in the name of their idol. Who truly thinks muslims can coexist with nonmuslims, when their religous dictate is absolute power over all? Send them back to their muslim hellholes to devour each other.
A little realted background for Americans. In 1997, two muslims were arrested after a shootout in NYC with nail studded bombs they were going to use in subway bombings. Both were connected with Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman, of the first WTC bombing and plots to bomb Brooklyn brige, NYC tunnels and other landmarks. One of these animals was caught several times trying to enter from Canada (like Ahmed Rezzam, minus the explosives), and was finally released into American society after claiming political asylum when Canada refused to take him back. Thank you congress and the INS.
PS. Was watching an ABC News London on-the-street interview and a stout Pakistani listening in the background was having a good old time, the only one in the video breaking out in smiles. Too bad he didn't have any candy to hand out.
Posted by: ed ||
07/07/2005 9:23 Comments ||
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#19
just said that British intelligence report 50 people who were being closely tracked have disappeared - fled the country or otherwise gone to ground.
whoa...
I shouldn't jump the gun, but if true, then we need to take a serious look at this, because AQ has clearly learned how to take advantage of the fact that the investigative services, FBI, and the British equivalent, allow the bad guys to go free so they can "watch" them under the misguided belief that these moderate size fish will take them to their leaders. It doesn't work! I know it's more complicated than just arresting them, but (again) if true, it is clear that AQ has learned how play the services while being watched. Time to take a look at Yassin and the first WTC bombing again, or they'll just keep doing it right before our investigators eyes.
Certainly, the idea of just "watching" has done little to rid large cities of mob influence, so what makes us think it will work any better with AQ. FBI can tell you who is who in mob families - but personally, I'd prefer that the cement, trash, construction and other industries weren't accepted as mob enterprises - as if that was just to be expected. How about getting rid of the mob influence instead of just monitoring it?
If indeed AQ was able to plan and then disappear, it's time for a serious rethink of how our investigative services deal with known bad guys in our midst - cause the bad guys are way ahead of them.
#22
Kill every islamofreak out there. No mercy. These "people" don't even rate protection from PETA since they are lower than animals. Bulldoze their mosques, deport the innocent and kill the guilty. Enough of trying to "understand" these wastes of flesh. They are not worth your pity or caring.
#23
Spineless bastards .
Figures will keep rolling up all day i fear . Am in process of trying to contact friends in the areas attacked .
I for one want retaliation . Hard and fast
#29
I want to see a sweeping assault on these people. Raid their mosques, grab their imams and the other s who are being "closely tracked", and have all of them "disappear". Drain intell out of them and then act swiftly on it.
But I know better. There will be press conferences, statements from politicians denouncing this, counselors brought in for people to talk about their feelings, and little else done. Remember, we are "civilized" and that means trying to understand why they hate us and then giving them things to make them like us.
We're writing our own epitath through our "civility"
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
07/07/2005 10:26 Comments ||
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Posted by: BA ||
07/07/2005 11:10 Comments ||
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#35
Time for the Brits to build their own "Gitmo". I suggest the western plains of Ascension Island. And forget the air conditioning. Let the retards sweat a little. Feed them bangers and chips twice a day, and if they don't eat it, too bad. And skip the Quran - it's just an incitement to violence.
As for retaliation, I can think of a dozen or so places that need to be totally flattened, all in Soddy Rabida.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
07/07/2005 13:09 Comments ||
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#36
hi everyone,I'm a long time lurker that comes out of the woodwork every now and then. Does anyone know if Howard is ok? Good guy is Howard so hope he is ok and im sure everyone else hopes too. Well its happened guys and take it from a Brit we are very very pissed off and angry about this,even the average pacifist in the factory i work in was saying they should be boiled alive or shipped out and such - people are angry and distressed and some worried even though we are about 100 mile or so away from London so in no danger. This is without a doubt Britains own 911 , ok its on a far smaller scale thankfully but the feeling and mood is very much alike among britons and as many have stated all around the world when the 911 attacks happened. A Dark Day indeed but if we british are anything like we were during ww2 then we will prevail. Something odd to myself is the medias reaction as in the use of the 'T' word ie terrorist, see normally when a bus of kids or whatever in Israel gets blown to bits by some Islamo scub bag the BBC and the like label the terrorists who carried it out as 'militants' or 'insurgents' in Iraq that target hospitals, now we have the horrer bought to our own country and suddenly the T word is used,as it should be of course but my main thought on this is will this lead to main stream leftist media leaning away from terms like militants or insurgents when reporting on international terrorism or in say Iraq or Israel or will they finally realise. I hope for all our sakes they do as the current situation where mainstream media seems to sympathise with Islamo terrorists and give them comfort is in my mind more dangerous then the actual terrorists themselves, Mike Moore is another example of this and as i say is just as if not more of a threat for our future. I've had a rant i know but, oh another thing, anyone else like me been wondering if the bomb maker is perhaps the most vital target for us to get? I dont know alot about counter terror ops and the like but if that guys still out there surly he's our top target,interested to hear your thoughts on it. Bye for now.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
07/07/2005 13:32 Comments ||
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#37
Shep! Long time no hear!
Glad you're okay. You can see here on the big thread that Howard is fine, just on foot and not too happy about it.
Also glad to hear of the response - screw the Beeb wankers.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 15:51 Comments ||
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#43
This is a classic example of what hyper-sensitive, politically correct totalitarian leftists foist on societies that are stupid enough to allow Islamist cockroach cells to form.
These Islamist murderers have been out in the open for years. They have promised attacks, even going so far as to use a suicide bomber today -- a first in Western Europe since I don't know when, if ever. They have spouted their vicious anti-Jewish rhetoric that leftists have by-and-large embraced or avoided criticizing with vigor.
Now their deeds are out in the open. When will the West learn that to open the door for Wahhabi ideologues from North Africa, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other parts of the Moooslim world is to invite a Trojan horse?
#44
Shep - good to hear you, v pissed off myself. Stiff upper..
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 16:39 Comments ||
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#45
Shep, Howard - good to hear from you.
So now we have weapons drawn - be honest, we always knew this would happen. Now, shall we kill these fuckers where they stand?
But beware of the MSM and hyper-PC fuckers - I've just complained to the BBC about a TV shithead who was talking about the deaths today as though it was some Marathon. I kept in control...but only just.
We're at a crux here - we'll see what happens next....
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/07/2005 18:57 Comments ||
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#46
Now, shall we kill these fuckers where they stand?
Now technically Ima with you, but you must must admit this is a little over the edge? Maybe you could talk with them a bit, you Brits do have a way with words
Emergency services have been called to London's Liverpool Street Underground station after reports of an explosion. The incident has caused major disruption to the entire network with stations across the capital closed.
A London Fire Brigade spokeswoman said four crews were at the scene and more were on their way. There are reports of "walking wounded". Cordons are in place. A power failure may be behind the problems, Transport for London said. Probly nothing but there was no power on parts of the tube this morning which correlates with some kind of incident.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 04:37 ||
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#1
Casualties reported. Sirens all over. Major incident... but little detail as yet... whole tube shut down - roads closed too.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 4:45 Comments ||
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#2
Unconfirmed reports of an explosion on a bus near Russell Square...
#9
From a speculation standpoint I would be surprised if its tranzis. Blowing up a power station I could see, but a bus is a leap. I have no doubt there are plenty of that sort who would do it, to save the snails or whatever, but they haven't gone there yet.
An official (Home Secretary?) outside of the PM's house just said on FOX that there are numerous casualties.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
07/07/2005 5:45 Comments ||
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#11
At least 7 bombs. Starting to get 2nd explosions at same sites, to get the rescue workers. At least 90 casualties, some deaths. (Fox News is giving us the Sky News feed from London.) G8 doesn't make sense to me -- the amarchists are having too much fun up in Scotland. The newsies are speculating payback for getting the Olympics... but carefully not talking about Muslim terrorists, as far as I've heard.
#12
Gotta be the muzzies. Absolute fucking pandemonium outside. Very un-British. Police getting everyone into the park outside work.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 6:03 Comments ||
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#13
I wonder how long it will be until we hear about celebrations in the colonist parts of London. And how long those stories last till the press covers them up.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
07/07/2005 6:05 Comments ||
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#14
Army On The Streets Of London's Covent Garden - Sky sayzz
#16
BBC's Frank Gardiner says his arab sources confirm Al Qaeda strike
Posted by: john ||
07/07/2005 6:34 Comments ||
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#17
Glad you're OK, Howard. Don't envy your journey home tonight.
What makes al Q think they can achieve with a handful of suicidal primitives what the combined strength of the Luftwaffe failed to do sixty five years ago? Morons.
#18
Jihadis are the prime suspects, but some IRA faction is also possible IMO. The timing with the G8 suggests it's been planned for a while; not likely to have anything to do with the Olympics announcement. I'm watching TV right now and I recalled that London has a lot of security cameras all around the city - I wonder what they show?
#20
Thanks Bulldog, gonna be a long walk. Raining too. Might just go pub.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 6:46 Comments ||
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#21
What makes al Q think they can achieve with a handful of suicidal primitives what the combined strength of the Luftwaffe failed to do sixty five years ago?
The fact that now the British are being told to not oppose resistance and even cooperate with robbers. On the long term this kind of things makes for a society of cowards, it can take a couple generations but it ends bearing fruit. And Al Quaida since the fruits are already there.
In addition they have found that it worked nwithe the Spanish.
#25
Pardon my venting a little bit. Local station ran with the BBC for a while, and some idiot on the Beeb was saying, in reference to the bus being attacked, that "this has never happened before". Grrrrr....
How can we help from here in the US?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 7:19 Comments ||
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#26
According to the Guardian, there are fatalities (eyewitnesses say so, at least). I'm real sorry for your people, Howard. Bastards. I hope the "Londonistan" will be cleaned real good and that the authorities will cease being nice with the saudi "opposotion", with islamic charities, with islamic banks,... Time to make fear change side.
#27
News feeds: Fox Newsexplosions across central city during morning rush; two dead, 90 wounded reported; double-decker bus torn open; people trapped in tunnel near King's Cross; entire subway network, rail lines into city shut down
Drudge ReportBLAIR SAYS ATTACKS APPARENTLY TIMED TO COINCIDE WITH START OF G8 MEETING...
Scotland Yard told Israel minutes before explosions it had received warnings of possible terror...
Sky NewsThe entire Tube network has been shut down following the blasts at Edgware Road, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street, Russell Square, Aldgate, Moorgate and Leicester Square.
BBCIslamist website carries message claiming credit for London attacks.
It is going to take a lot longer than a couple of generations to tame the lion. The ragheads have stirred up the nest for sure and the comparison to the Blitz will be missed by no one but inspire all.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
07/07/2005 7:35 Comments ||
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#30
these were to timed & targeted to kill/terrorise. I know the Brits will deal w/ these fanatic fascist fools...the retarded ones just wrote another chapter in their book ...."How to win friends and rally the superior civilizations against us"
God bless you Brits!
Posted by: Red Dog ||
07/07/2005 7:40 Comments ||
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Big explosion in Aldgate Underground station and also in Edgware Road area, so far over 90 reported casualties (Sky News) and they are using buses to transfer the injured to The Royal London Hospital. They have also cut ALL telephone and mobile communications in London (in case you are trying to contact anyone), presumably to prevent any further attempts to detonate explosives remotely. All public transport in London has been cancelled until further notice.
Updated - they just found another bomb at Stockwell station.
My brother is a copper in London - I've messaged him, but so far no reply. He'll have his hands full, so not too worried at the moment - also, adds credence to the Samizdata poster.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/07/2005 7:52 Comments ||
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#33
Minutes ago Spiegel Online reports that "Al Qaeda Europe" has assumed responsibility on a website called Forum Al Qala'a.
#35
Just got a phone call from my sister in London - my brother the copper has just texted her to say he's ok. He's not allowed to phone out at the moment.
It seems that the mobile networks are coming back onstream - which means that there may be more explosions if the remote controlled mobile theory is correct.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/07/2005 8:07 Comments ||
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#36
Tony, Howard, Bulldog, and all other "cousins" - Our best goes out to you. The emergency services people are absolutely fantastic. Kudos and bravo - I hope our people are taking notes.
One Fox commenter, Stuart Varney - formerly of the UK (heh), has brought up the fact that the public surveillance camera system might provide invaluable evidence of the entire operation.
#38
Tony, Bulldog, Howard, etc., yes, our thoughts and prayers are with are British friends today big time and we stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you as you've stood with us.
As President Bush just said, "The War on Terror goes on."
It struck me yesterday that the bad guys haven't been setting off any bombs in Iraq since President Bush's Ft. Bragg speech...now they've returned to bombing the capitals of the West.
Obviously, our work isn't done.
Keep keeping your pecker up, Londoners! We are with you.
#39
According to an NBC correspondent the Arab chat rooms etc are overjoyed at the carnage. They are urging all to call in to the Police in London and report bomb threats.
I wonder if Galloway is cheering right now?
Posted by: Bill Nelson ||
07/07/2005 9:06 Comments ||
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#40
What makes al Q think they can achieve with a handful of suicidal primitives what the combined strength of the Luftwaffe failed to do sixty five years ago? Morons.
Sounds like the Blitz Spirit lives. (Except in Galloway's world)
#43
BTW -- Every report of celebration should be collected and publicized. We can't let the world forget, again, who gets their jollies from death and destruction.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 9:35 Comments ||
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#44
Good point, RC. Don't want to see that go flush down the memory hole.
#45
Is this a "dry run" for a chem / bio attack? One of the hallmarks of the jihadis has become the follow-up bombs designed to explode 20-30 minutes later when the emergency service responders are on the scene and most of the vicitms are being treated on-site as transportation is initially grid-locked. If I were one of them, I'd have put an observer with a stopwatch at each scene... at the back of the crowd, of course.
Consider the casualties in that scenario.
That said, I hate this numbers BS. One innocent is too many.
#46
Kings Cross is the easiest mainline station to drive to, and the first station you arrive at on the tube from, Finsbury Park...
That would be the Finsbury Park which is the home of the infamous Finsbury Park mosque, right?
Posted by: Mike ||
07/07/2005 10:13 Comments ||
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#47
#17
"What makes al Q think they can achieve with a handful of suicidal primitives what the combined strength of the Luftwaffe failed to do sixty five years ago? Morons"
That's telling them Bulldog.
My heart reaches to those experiencing these attacks of these muslim cowards today. And such cowards!
Posted by: Some dude ||
07/07/2005 10:14 Comments ||
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#48
Just received e-mail from a dear friend in London: "not allowed out yet as we have had a bomb alarm as well since this morning (there are a lot of Home Office offices down here in Croydon)so have had to put our blinds down and stay in the office. Traffic has been stopped and it is really spookily quiet except for sirens. Central London is at a standstill - although emergency services arrived really quickly - News still says only 2 dead but can't see that myself from the pictures. Mobile phone system of course is down although I have had mine on since this morning. Mostly due to the jamming from the Government as bombs can be triggered off. Some of our offices in London can't phone out as well but can receive calls. And the rain is falling down in sheets. What with the euphoria yesterday of winning the Olympic Bid and now this. Am allowed out the back door for a cigarette though. May have stay overnight in office unless we get the all clear."
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 10:23 Comments ||
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#49
CAN people PLEASE post up any URLs or quotable sources (eg: BBC, Skynews, NBC) of actual Islamist or Arab sites found to be rejoicing in these attacks.
If anyone has the URL of al-Qala'a where the claim was allegedly posted, please post these too.
God bless you Britain, we stand with you.
Posted by: Anonymous one ||
07/07/2005 10:33 Comments ||
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#50
Times online is reporting 'dozens' dead, whilst the BBC is still showing at least '2'. However, the BBC did say a few weeks back that they were not going to report 'live' if there are situations like this.
Thanks for all the good thoughts guys and gals - we'll have to see how this pans out over the next few weeks.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/07/2005 10:34 Comments ||
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#53
Like LH, my heart goes out to you all across the pond! You are in my thoughts and prayers. Now, let's get up and slay those that are guilty! Stand firm, London (and England). And thanks for all the updates, Bulldog, Howard, et al!
Posted by: BA ||
07/07/2005 10:47 Comments ||
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#54
Just like last time, the media will quickly bury reports of muslim celebration, especially when it happens in the west. This can't be hidden from people again. They've got to be shown what the enemy is really like, and who they really are.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
07/07/2005 10:51 Comments ||
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#55
God bless the UK.
Posted by: Matt ||
07/07/2005 10:53 Comments ||
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#56
Anonymous one, there is some information on the Haganah site about URL.
#59
"When I warned them [the French] that Britain would fight on alone, whatever they did, their Generals told their Prime Minister and his divided cabinet that in three weeks, England would have her neck wrung like a chicken - Some chicken! Some neck!"
Posted by: Matt ||
07/07/2005 11:33 Comments ||
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#60
Ah, here's the Galloway statement, straight from the horse's ass.
#64
General concensus amongst the populace is 'business as normal' - go to work tomorrow and get on with it. The IRA gave us warnings at least, it would seem those days are over. It's not the first time I've had to leg it in London. We are not phased in the least. Thanks to one and all for the kind thoughts.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 12:25 Comments ||
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#65
From Daily Kos...
Just in from magazine friend in London:
"suicide bomber just shot dead in canary wharf. - like our wall street"
Latest is people are being evacuated from Victoria Station due to suspicious package.
Blown bus had been diverted - it was heading for kings cross station. So islamists aimed to frighten the people out of kings cross station into the arms of the bus blast.
Posted by: Anonymous one ||
07/07/2005 12:58 Comments ||
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#67
Dear Brits:
My deepest sympathies. I just got in and saw this horrible news of barbarism and cowardice. You will see America stand with Queen and Country over this, for sure. Take cheer, though, even at this time you have been wounded. For you are Brits; you will tend your wounded, comfort your grieving, and rebuild the broken -- and then, at the right time, you will eradicate the vermin islamofascist scourge among you and burn the roots of this evil to ashes in the very countries from which it has sprung. That time cannot come too soon.
#68
As the game is played, the moslems will win. Skipping the word "cowardly" the reality is that the moslems killed 45. At most a successful police investigation might net, what maybe 10-12 people? Maybe not as well.
The Iraq flypaper strategy has been very successful, but unless the sources are wiped it's a pointless game.
The west is stupid and deserves to fall if it can't determine a better strategy.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 15:22 Comments ||
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#70
General concensus amongst the populace is 'business as normal' - go to work tomorrow and get on with it. The IRA gave us warnings at least, it would seem those days are over. It's not the first time I've had to leg it in London. We are not phased in the least. Thanks to one and all for the kind thoughts.
"London can take it" then? I look on in admiration.
#71
"At most a successful police investigation might net, what maybe 10-12 people? Maybe not as well."
IF it was suiciders, thats at least 4, with probably 10 per as backup. Say 40 altogether. And even if they dont get them all, AQ cant afford to keep losing 10 to 12. Plus what theyre losing in Iraq.
#72
"In the scarred miles between each explosion â walking from Moorgate to Liverpool Street down to King's Cross â you could see several fights taking shape yesterday that will grip us for years. The fight against Islamic fundamentalism became clearer. Anybody who tells you these bombers are fighting for the rights of Muslims in Iraq, occupied Palestine or Chechnya should look at the places they chose to bomb. Aldgate? The poorest and most Muslim part of the country. Edgware Road? The centre of Muslim and Arab life in London and, arguably, Europe.
Does anybody need greater evidence that these Islamic fundamentalists despise Muslims who choose to live in free societies, and they would enslave Muslims everywhere if they were given the opportunity? Nor is this tit-for-tat revenge for deaths in Iraq: very similar jihadist plots have been foiled in France and Germany, countries that opposed the invasion. Anybody who doubted that the fight against Islamic fundamentalism â a murderous totalitarian ideology â was always our fight should know better now."
#73
God Bless the UK. While we understand all too well what you feel today, know that just as you stood with us after 9/11, America will stand with you.
#74
Fox just "confirmed" through unnamed sources that 2 unexploded devices were discovered. So there were to be 2 more. Where they were found not yet revealed.
#75
Anyone collecting urls of site and stories of celebration of the attacks, kindly send them to my rkka.org addy. Use stavka as the user name. I want to give the page full prominance on my tiny weblog.
Also,if anyone wants to do the same, of links to the page or get a copy of the source code let me know. You know the addy.
BTW the stavka address is a monitor only addy and you will get an autoresponce. I will be monitoring the addy for the next 24 hours or so for the links,if any. Please use the word BADANOV in all caps so I can see amoungst all the spam and pecker enlargement emails. :o)
No link, freebie from Stratfor. I don't know what to make of this. Grain of salt?
Summary
There has been massive confusion over a denial made by the Israelis that the Scotland Yard had warned the Israeli Embassy in London of possible terrorist attacks âminutes beforeâ the first bomb went off July 7. Israel warned London of the attacks a âcouple of days ago,â but British authorities failed to respond accordingly to deter the attacks, according to an unconfirmed rumor circulating in intelligence circles. While Israel is keeping quiet for the time-being, British Prime Minister Tony Blair soon will be facing the heat for his failure to take action.
Analysis
The Associated Press reported July 7 that an anonymous source in the Israeli Foreign Ministry said Scotland Yard had warned the Israeli Embassy in London of possible terrorist attacks in the U.K. capital. The information reportedly was passed to the embassy minutes before the first bomb struck at 0851 London time. The Israeli Embassy promptly ordered Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to remain in his hotel on the morning of July 7. Netanyahu was scheduled to participate in an Israeli Investment Forum Conference at the Grand Eastern Hotel, located next to the Liverpool Street Tube station -- the first target in the series of bombings that hit London on July 7.
Several hours later, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom officially denied reports that Scotland Yard passed any information to Israel regarding the bombings, and British police denied they had any advanced warning of the attacks. The British authorities similarly denied that any information exchange had occurred.
Contrary to original claims that Israel was warned âminutes beforeâ the first attack, unconfirmed rumors in intelligence circles indicate that the Israeli government actually warned London of the attacks âa couple of daysâ previous. Israel has apparently given other warnings about possible attacks that turned out to be aborted operations. The British government did not want to disrupt the G-8 summit in Gleneagles, Scotland, or call off visits by foreign dignitaries to London, hoping this would be another false alarm.
The British government sat on this information for days and failed to respond. Though the Israeli government is playing along publicly, it may not stay quiet for long. This is sure to apply pressure on Blair very soon for his failure to deter this major terrorist attack.
In the wake of a series of apparent terrorist bombings in London this morning, an entity calling itself "Al-Qaida's Secret Organization" has taken credit for the coordinated attack in a claim posted on an Internet website. . . . The claim (as seen below) was first posted early this morning on the "Fortress" chat board, a long-time meeting place for Islamic extremists and Al-Qaida sympathizers.
Within less than two hours of the claim being posted, it was summarily deleted by "Fortress" administrators who quickly issued their own statement explaining that their site "does not allow postings which contain incitement for violence or postings containing statements or news without reference to a formally registered address in the web." However, typically, such postings are actually deleted from the message board not because they incite to violence, but rather because they originate from an illegitimate source. Al-Qaida supporters active on the "Fortress" chat board have likewise expressed their strong doubts over the purported communique from "Al-Qaida's Secret Organization."
It should be noted that the language in this latest Internet statement is oddly reminiscent of a series of hoax threats received last summer from an alleged terrorist group calling itself the "Tawheed Islamic Movement." Several credible sources later dismissed those electronic threats as fraudulent, including the designated media representative of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. . . .
The Counterterrorism Blog is run by people who seem to know what they're doing, so this theory is worth considering. Of course, the fact that this particular posting might have been a hoax doesn't mean that al-Q didn't do it.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/07/2005 12:32 ||
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#1
I guess we are supposed to be some snot-nosed 14-yr old would-be suicide bomber who yens to hack the pentagon computer did this... Right...
The Counterterrorism Blog is run by people who seem to know what they're doing, so this theory is worth considering. Of course, the fact that this particular posting might have been a hoax doesn't mean that al-Q didn't do it.
ROME (AP) - The whole of Europe was in a state of alert Thursday following a series of bombings in London, while security officials were assessing Italian security and Italy's airports raised their alert level to a maximum, Italian officials said. Italy's European commissioner called the explosions in central London on Thursday a terrorist strike against Europe.
``What has happened is the tragic confirmation that terrorism strikes once more at the heart of Europe,'' said Franco Frattini, Europe's commissioner for justice and home affairs, in comments reported by Italian news agencies and confirmed by his office. ``It's necessary to immediately activate coordination between intelligence and police services, and offer England all the help possible,'' Frattini said.
Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu said Italy was not alone in calling a state of alert, but that all of Europe was stepping up vigilance, according to the minister's office. Italian security officials were meeting to assess the situation and decide what measures could be taken, the ministry said. Other countries that have announced increased security at shopping centers, airports, railways and subways include the Czech Republic, Hungary, Russia, the Netherlands, France and Spain, which was hit by deadly al-Qaida-linked bombings last year. Belgium's prime minister asked emergency response officials to assess security in the Belgian capital, Brussels, which houses European Union and NATO headquarters.
Italian airports were functioning on a maximum alert, the civil aviation authority said. National airline Alitalia said its schedule of flights for London airports was not changed, however, following the blasts. Frattini said in separate comments that he was in constant contact with British authorities and with his commission office, and that the European Commission would meet next week to discuss new rapid reaction measures against terrorist attacks.
Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi sent a message to Queen Elizabeth II, expressing ``consternation and horror'' at the ``bloody attacks,'' and expressed condolences for the victims. Premier Silvio Berlusconi, who was attending the G-8 summit in Scotland, had been in touch with Pisanu through his spokesman and was informed of the situation following the blasts in London, Italian diplomatic sources at the summit said. The Italian Foreign Ministry said it had no reports of Italian casualties.
Italy's parliament suspended work in both its houses Thursday as a sign of solidarity after the explosions were reported. The Italian lower house suspended work for 15 minutes following news of the explosions, while the Senate called off its session until the afternoon, parliamentary officials said. The Milan stock exchange said it had no plans to close.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 10:43 ||
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Full story:
Sen. John McCain told Fox News today that the reason Americans should pay very close attention to what happened today in London is because; "This is a grim reminder of the war that we continue to fight against people who want to destroy everything we and our friends across the Atlantic stand for and believe in."
Regarding our own homeland defenses, McCain told interviewer Shepard Smith, "We have made progress, we have a long way to go, and if we fail to take the fight to the enemy, the enemy will take the fight to us."
Smith pointed out to the senator that if someone wanted to take a weapon in a backpack onto any subway in the U.S., there would be no way to stop it. So, he asked, how do we remedy this? McCain said that there is more we can do at our ports and rail stations, "but the moral of the story is, you can't fight them here.
"You've got to go where they're bred, and that happens to be in these madrassahs that are funded by the Saudis, where the [terrorists] are taught to hate and destroy the West and everything we stand for. We've got to go where these terrorists breed ... in the Middle East, with the followers of extreme Islamic fundamentalism. We can take preventive measures, but the best way to prevent these attacks is to go after them where they breed."
McCain also defended current U.S. foreign policy that is pushing democracy all over the world, saying, "Repressive and oppressive governments also provide the incentives for this kind of extremism and that's why we're fighting hard for Democracy in the Middle East, whether it be in Egypt or Iraq or any of these other Middle Eastern countries - that's why Afghanistan was so important."
McCain also doesn't believe the convoluted notion that we are somehow creating more terrorists by fighting them. "These people were bent on our destruction [before] September 11 ... we had not had a war in Iraq at that time. ... It's clear that there is a breeding ground of radical Islamic extremism that predates anything the U.S. has done." He added, "If you believe that Iraq is a breeding ground, then we should do everything we can to further the process of democracy and stability in Iraq."
#1
sure, Mr. Tough-Guy. Nice poseur on you. When we talk about closing the southern border to infiltrators of all types, you team up with Kennedy (D-antiamerica) to try and open the borders. Lying F*&k
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/07/2005 14:08 Comments ||
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#2
Douche bag. Go give Kerry and Kennedy the reach around you owe them.
Until you do something about the boarder - pound sand.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
07/07/2005 15:08 Comments ||
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#3
my temper killed my spelling - or I've been reading Mucks posts too much!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
07/07/2005 15:09 Comments ||
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#4
Now if McCain would walk the walk, instead of talking the talk and then backstabbing Bush and conservatives in political revenge acts (like the Gang of 14).
Color me skeptical. Great words, but will McCain back them up with action?
#5
"You've got to go where they're bred, and that happens to be in these madrassahs that are funded by the Saudis, where the [terrorists] are taught to hate and destroy the West and everything we stand for.
Oh boy, there's going to be some unhappy people tonight, and I suspect that it won't be confined to people in the Middle East. :)
#6
The State Department, like the madrassahs, are also funded by the Saudis. When can we clean that up?
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
07/07/2005 15:27 Comments ||
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#7
Fuck you McCain, you traitorist bastard. Stop stabbing us in the back, shitting on the constitution and leaving the boarders unchecked and maybe I'll believe you.
#8
I will believe McCain when he walks the walk w/r/t to our security and our borders. Otherwise I will assume the Slimelight⢠scenario, where he wants the publicity, which is the usual M.O. with him.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
07/07/2005 16:04 Comments ||
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#12
You people are thick. Considering the standards of the Senate and politicians in general, McCain is one of the better ones. How stupid are you to hate him for simply being a moderate? Immigration is a tough issue, especially in AZ and also in Texas as you'll notice from Bush's positions as well. It's wingnuts like you people that tear down the most successful Republicans and prevent them from making further in-roads in the Blue States. Arnold only won California because he didn't have to go through the Republican primary.
When it comes to the WoT and Iraq, McCain is unflinching - and unlike Bush, he's articulate enough to go to Europe and make the case and tell the truth right to their faces. Even the Kucinnich types have to listen when McCain speaks.
If you don't like his positions, criticize him but don't call him a traitor.
Posted by: John in Tokyo ||
07/07/2005 19:03 Comments ||
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#13
John in Japan - I'll call him a bleeding heart trying to atone for his Keating transgressions who loves to hear his name in his beloved NYT - kiss my ass. When Americans won't take responsibility for securing their borders because "ooohh my! It's difficult!" Fuck off and die. No apologies.
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/07/2005 20:49 Comments ||
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#14
Immigration is a tough issue, especially in AZ and also in Texas as you'll notice from Bush's positions as well.
It isn't 'immigration'. It's illegal immigration. I-L-L-E-G-A-L. You know, against the law? Not going through legal channels to enter the country? Perhaps that little factor slipped your mind while you rushed to post.
Texas has always had a different attitude about it. And it isn't a 'tough issue' in Arizona. Speaking as a Zonie living in California, it's a catastrophe in both states.
McCain isn't a traitor. He's an opportunistic egomanic with a constitutency of one and a willingness to slit the throat of his party and step on the Constitution if it would benefit him. But, no, he isn't a traitor.
#2
I can't view those pages at work but I kind of figured they would blame Bush. Rove is the best whipping boy for the left but since he was cleared in the Plame Blame Game, they have to start a new conspiracy theory. Would it be possible for you to post a few lines for us?
#3
I thought you meant blaming them as in indirectly responsible. These asshats actually think Bush/Rove were directly responsible. Mindboggling how dislike for somebody can play such tricks on a persons common sense.
#4
These "people" are not worth the oxygen they breathe. They are so caught up in the bushishitler thing that all logical thought is driven from their tiny brains. Time for some bleach in the gene pool methinks.
#7
Sarge, here you go, the post that started it all:
cyberpj -- Thu Jul-07-05 08:30 AM Look. I'm horrified and sorry for Britain but I'm wise to 9/11 and this is just too suspicious for me. Maybe I'm way too cynical or hateful of PNAC and this administration but I can see clearly how this will serve Bush.
Gets attention off Rove, DSM, the Italian CIA and other big problems for Bush.
Gets Blair away from G8.
Gets Brits scared and willing to stay in war.
Puts attention on Iran and may garner support to go there.
Keeps Halliburton too busy for investigations and on the move.
I'm praying for those hurt and injured just as hard as I prayed here on 9/11/01. They are truly innocent and undeserving of this.
But I believe Bush and his PNAC pack were involved in 9/11 and I can't help thinking they're in on this as well. Another Pearl Harbor to help the cause.
That said, I really hope my gut is wrong.
"PNAC" is the Project for a new American Century, which the moonbats think is a secret cabal bent on world domination. (Not to be confused with all the other secret cabals moonbats think are bent on world domination, such as the Trilateral Commission, the Elders of Zion, the Skull & Bones Society, the Federalist Society, Opus Dei, Rantburg, the Boston Bruins, the St. Francis Xavier Parish Council, the National Model Railroad Association, and so on.)
As you've probably guessed, the thread just gets more absurd from there. A few people try to inject a voice of reason (e.g., "Come on. You can take a day off and think of the pain of others. And not say inflammatory things."), but are quickly shouted down.
Posted by: Mike ||
07/07/2005 13:25 Comments ||
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#8
Question:
How long before the Democratic leadership starts parroting this crap?
The war isnât making the West any safer. In fact, itâs creating a whole new class of terrorists. Today it was London. Next time it could easily be the United States. And waging the war in Iraq, rather than make us safer, is further motivating Islamic terrorists to strike at the West. ⦠"[B]ush (and Blair) took their eyes off the prize â neglected to finish the job in Afghanistan, let Al Qaida off the hook to rebuild and reorganize, and helped swell its ranks with an unecessary [sic] and inept campaign in Iraq. "There are consequences to the mess in Iraq. And today, weâre seeing one of them. Unfortunately, it wonât be the last."
I like having people like that on our side. Heck if he was for the terrorists they would get depressed! Hell this ALREADY sounds like Kennedy/Kerry/Boxer!
#14
I am just waiting for the inevitable when either this attack or ones to come in the future these kind of wingnuts like Ward Churchill and others or the current jerkoffs protesting the G-8 now get a moment of balls and participate in alliance with the terrorist to make attacks on the evil bush-hitler enviro-killing capalist-pigs and their Joooo secret warmonger alliance. Personally I cant wait for the moonbats to cross the red line because at least then we could actually publicly admit the fact that we are at war with the Terrorist for survival to be able to fight the war that is ongoing here with those who want to destroy our way of life for some Peace-love-and-happiness dream of eutopia busllsh*t. Once they cross that line we will be able to finaly procecute these aholes for open Sedition, a few names to begin with George Galloway, Ward Churchill, Ted Kennedy, 70% of the people who post at KOS and on on and on.... The PC protection will only last until just one of thier ilk will grow a set of balls and cross that line. could this be it in London some anarchist maybe with some old school Radical Muslim advice who knows we will find out later but I do believe it is inevitable at some point a percentage of the radical left will go active hot with the terrorist. It sad but I believe inevitable all the same.
#15
I don't agree with alot of Geo W's views, but to even think that he'd plan such a horrific act, OMG.
Posted by: Jan ||
07/07/2005 15:45 Comments ||
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#16
Not a problem, CS; they are not on our side. I believe it was SDB who said it was a 3-way war between Western Civilization, Islam, and the Tranzis.
#17
Jackal - true, and he pointed out the alliance of convenience between the Tranzis and jihadis. That the Tranzis believe themselves so sophisticated and clever is very dangerous self-delusion - they believe they're driving. Lol. Right. They'll be the most surprised people on the planet when they're first against the wall (e.g. Galloway; let's have them beat his ass, again, lol)... and they seem perfectly clueless about this inevitability - even with Spain as a classic example.
#21
These people hate America, and I think they hate people like me which is why I don't trust them. I would love it if I could move to a country where I didn't have to share citizenship with them. They disgust me.
Syria's recent clashes with militants have raised the prospect that the country â under U.S. pressure to keep insurgents out of Iraq â might also be facing a resurgence of Islamic extremists within its own borders.
"Damn! I laid down with the dawgs and now I'm itching like hell! I wonder what it could be?"
Long-dormant Islamic-based groups that oppose the Syrian regime appear to be taking advantage of the government's tight spot to reassert themselves, some political analysts and outside experts believe. "The more you weaken the regime, the more you give the chance for opposition groups, including Islamic extremists, to regroup," said Nizar Hamzeh, a political science professor at the American University of Beirut who is an expert on Islamic political movements.
"Yeah. Much better to just leave ol' Assad alone, maybe give him some money..."
Syria has gone on the offensive recently, announcing measures to crack down on foreign fighters slipping into Iraq from its territory.
... so as to avoid meeting the Marines up close and personal...
The initiative appears to be an attempt to relieve some pressure from the United States and Iraq, who claim Syria has not done enough.
That's what I just said...
But the series of recent clashes has also highlighted that the extremist groups hold longtime hostility toward the Syrian regime too. Abdulrahman al-Rashed, the general manager of Al-Arabiya satellite channel, said the clashes show that al-Qaida "has indeed started its war against Syria."
In that case, Assad's got three choices: Do nothing and hope for the best, the course he'll probably take; surrender and get the hell out while the getting's good, letting the bad guyz take over, followed by us; or dump the terrs and join our side.
Writing in the London-based Asharq al-Awsat newspaper Monday, he noted the irony that the Syrian government and Islamists have cooperated in the past. But such cooperation was only "a marriage of convenience" to achieve certain goals such as confronting U.S. troops in Iraq, and groups such as al-Qaida consider Syria to be an "infidel" regime that needs to be changed, he noted. "They may have slept in the same bed to fight the Americans but what's important for al-Qaida is that it has entered the bedroom and secured a foothold there," he wrote.
"Y'know, I think I might have fleas! Call the Surgeon General!"
There is little question that the militants seem willing to fight the Syrian regime. On Monday, the Syrian government said its security forces had clashed with a band of militants â including former bodyguards of toppled Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein â on a resort mountain overlooking the Syrian capital, Damascus. During the clash, security forces captured a Jordanian suspected militant, Sharif Ayed Saeed al-Smady, and the wife of his brother, said a Syrian official. In an interview with Syrian Television, the wife, Rihab Shahab, said the group was planning terror attacks in Syria and also was preparing to travel to Iraq using forged passports.
"Honey, Brother and I have to go on a little business trip..."
"Can I come along this time? You never take me along on business trips!"
"Well, okay."
"Oh, goody! Where are we going?"
"We're gonna shoot up Syria, and then go to Iraq using forged passports."
The al-Smady brothers, both wanted in Jordan in connection with an armed robbery, are linked to the Jund al-Shams militant group, authorities say. The group is a well-known organization that was set up in Afghanistan by Syrian, Palestinian and Jordanian militants and has links to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of al-Qaida's branch in Iraq. The group also has claimed responsibility for an October attack on resort hotels in Sinai, Egypt, that killed 34 people, and for a March bombing at an international school in Qatar that killed a British resident. On Sunday, the day before the mountain clash, the government claimed its forces had killed an Arab extremist near the Lebanese border and arrested 34 other foreign extremists. And last month, Syrian forces raided the hideout of a group of suspected terrorists near Damascus, killing two. Before that raid, security forces had been monitoring a Jund al-Sham cell for several months and broke it up as the group planned to launch bomb attacks in Damascus, authorities said.
"Beirut's okay. Baghdad's okay. We draw the line at Damascus!"
The burgeoning extremism in Syria "is a natural extension" of the increasing radicalism in the region after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, said Syrian legislator Mohammed al-Habash, who also heads the Center for Islamic Studies in Damascus.
"Before the U.S. invasion everything was peachy keen, no radicalism to be found anywhere..."
Syria, a tightly controlled country, has for decades taken a tough line against Islamic extremism: Banning, for example, the Muslim Brotherhood since the early 1980s. But Hamzeh said the crushing of the Brotherhood's leadership then does not mean that its infrastructure was totally destroyed.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 00:00 ||
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#3
Assad is obviously a little slower than the village leaders in Western Iraq. They've already started a red on red house cleaning. You might not like the Americans, but these terrorists are more dangerous to your health and plan to stay for the long haul. Best bet, try door number three.
#4
Syria's recent clashes with militants have raised the prospect that the country â under U.S. pressure to keep insurgents out of Iraq â might also be facing a resurgence of Islamic extremists within its own borders.
Looks like Syria's suffering a double dose of problems - bad government and extremists.
#5
Door number 4 (3b?). Try to imitate his daddy's approach to the Islamists (see Hama), but also try to keep his distance from us. I suspect that ends with him hanging from a street lamp.
Posted by: James ||
07/07/2005 10:25 Comments ||
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#6
congenital destiny, if ya ask me, being born with a footlong pencil-neck like that...
Posted by: Frank G ||
07/07/2005 10:49 Comments ||
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Cairenes(pretty!) seethe at Islamist claim to horror killings
Egyptians slammed the killing of their country's top envoy to Iraq and parenthetically dozens of people in four London blasts, acts claimed by affiliates of the Islamic militant network Al-Qaeda.
"The killing of innocents saddens me and I squarely reject that it was done in the name of Islam. The perpetrators are not true Muslims," said Mustafa Ali, a 45-year-old accountant in central Cairo.
That's low-hanging fruit. It gets better.
"The killing of innocents saddens me and I squarely reject that it was done in the name of Islam. The perpetrators are not true Muslims," said Mustafa Ali, a 45-year-old accountant in central Cairo. As the saying goes, "But..."
"Only through education and the media can we rectify our tarnished image as Muslims and the West should be more tolerant," said Ali's wife Ummayma.
"Western powers and countries backed by the West such as Russia ! and Israel go on killing innocent civilians too whether they be Iraqis, Palestinians or Chechens," she added.
Ahmed Saber, who was smoking a water-pipe at a downtown coffee shop with friends, said that Thursday's killings were inevitable.
"There is a war going on between Muslims and Christians and people use the weapon they can," offered the 36-year-old ophthalmologist.
"It doesn't mean that I personally agree with what is going on or that people in the West agree with the killings in Israel and Iraq but wars are bloody and innocents are bound to die," he added.
"But it's not a war of religions, it's an imperial war. The West is strong and wants Arab land and oil, then it devises words such as 'terrorism'. Al-Qaeda talks of 'crusaders' and 'Islamic supremacy'" Saber also said.
"They have helicopters, tanks and missiles. We use more primitive means because that's all we have. It's nasty, it's a war," said Mahmoud Said, 35, sipping a cup of tea.
Damn. I (wipes tear) ... I feel guilty already. This was all OUR FAULT!
#1
Damn it. Guess I'll have to stick to commenting on other articles instead of submitting them.
Posted by: Jort Snaiter9204 (the erstwhile Rex Rufus) ||
07/07/2005 19:06 Comments ||
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#2
How many times have I read about Islamists/Arab-nationalists complaining about the Western Media tarnishing the image of Muslims? No matter how many times I hear it, I never cease to be amazed at the sheer lunacy. There are so many things to say that it's hard to respond.
I really feel that we cannot win the WoT until our whole society, Europe included, gets enough of a clue so that even AFP journalists and editors will stop swallowing this nonsensical rhetoric with credulity.
Posted by: John in Tokyo ||
07/07/2005 19:19 Comments ||
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#3
"...The West is strong and wants Arab land and oil, then it devises words such as 'terrorism'..."
You would think that post-9/11 events would provide a pretty good cluebat for these people, but apparently Afghanistan and Iraq are so remote as to be theoretical to them.
"...There is a war going on between Muslims and Christians and people use the weapon they can..."
How long would it take to restore the oil flow if we use the weapons we can to wipe the Wahabis and their holy sites clean off the map? I suspect that even THAT would not be a big enough cluebat to these fools.
Posted by: Tom ||
07/07/2005 20:08 Comments ||
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#4
1972 - Attack on Iraeli athletes - Munich
1979 - Tehran embassy hostage crisis
1983 - Beruit barracks bombing
1985 - Achille Laura
1990 - PAN AM bombing Locherbie
1993 - WTC
1996 - Khobar Towers
1998 - Nairobi and Tanzania
2000 - USS Cole
2001 - WTC
2004 - Madrid bombing
2005 - London bombings
..."the West should be more tolerant," said Ali's wife Ummayma...
Posted by: Tom ||
07/07/2005 20:37 Comments ||
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#5
"Only through education and the media can we rectify our tarnished image as Muslims and the West should be more tolerant," said Ali's wife Ummayma.
Uhh, no. You excommunicate the extremists. That means you do it, your fellow Muslims do it, and your clerics do it. THAT is how you are going to rectify your tarnished image. And tarnished it is; I'd even call it severely oxidized.
#6
I don't give a fuck about what some 'Cairenes' think about the events of today. At least not until they can shit and not have it turn up in their tea 48 hours later. Then I might take the them a bit more seriously - it's very unlikely though.
As a 'Westerner' I think I've been really quite tolerant; I've learnt far more than I would have liked to about - for example; Islamic pilots (they don't fucking land), Islamic divorce (from the POV of the female), Islamic adulterly (again from the POV of the female), Islamic rape (again...you get the picture) and of course, the ultimate warrior, the guy that makes the Lords of Aasgard shit bricks - the fucking twat that turns its worthless, pathetic, vile hide into a pink mist and in the process kills, maims violates and otherwise brutalises the total innocents who were; simply going to work, sightseeing, visiting grannies, going for a job interview, upset, spellbound, having a day off, enjoying the day, going home to their loved ones, wondering what to do tomorrow and basically just being what we all do - day after day.
Tolerant? maybe - but by everything that is holy, my tolerance is sorely, and I mean fucking chilli paste on an open wound sorely, running out.
Thank God the captains on SSBNs are more level headed than me...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
07/07/2005 21:02 Comments ||
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#7
My tolerance ran out a few weeks ago. I don't recall the occasion, but at some point... poof, it was gone.
So far, I've supported Bush & Blair's "Middle East Democracy Initiative". I think it's something wr had to try, and put our backs into; for if this repulsive, loathesome culture can somehow be reformed (e.g., through the introduction of democratic self-governance) and thereby rendered non-toxic to the West, that would certainly be better than waging an all-out, total war of annihilation against them.
But anymore-- and especially after today's events-- when I read crap like this from those freakazoids, I wonder: why the fuck are we bothering??? Why not just nuke 'em all and be done with it?
Yeah, yeah, I know...
Posted by: Dave D. ||
07/07/2005 21:31 Comments ||
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#8
Tom, you intolerant Westerner...you forgot our glory days of the Bali nightclub bombing, our attempt at LAX in the New Year's celebration, our attack at the El Al counter at LAX and our daily homicide bombings of the Jooooos! Become more tolerant!
Posted by: Abu bin Jihadi ||
07/07/2005 21:35 Comments ||
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#9
Cairene seething vindicates all the R&D spent on the neutron bomb. It would be a shame to have to vaporize the Pyramids. These people just don't understand the American way of war. If it comes to open warfare, we kill the enemy until there are no more of them.
Posted by: Random thoughts ||
07/07/2005 22:07 Comments ||
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Mr Dulaimi is on his first official visit to the Islamic Republic
Former enemies Iran and Iraq say they will launch broad military co-operation including training Iraqi armed forces.
"It's a new chapter in our relations with Iraq," said Iranian Defence Minister Admiral Ali Shamkhani.
He was speaking at a joint news conference in Tehran with his Iraqi counterpart Saadoun al-Dulaimi.
Relations between the neighbours - who fought a bitter war from 1980 to 1988 - have improved greatly since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in 2003.
This is the first visit to Iran by an Iraqi military delegation since the war, in which a million people died, started.
The promise of co-operation comes despite repeated accusations by the US - which has about 140,000 troops in Iraq - that Iran has been undermining security there.
"No one can prevent us from reaching an agreement," Mr Shamkhani said when asked about possible US opposition.
Mr Dulaimi echoed his Iranian counterpart's view about a new era of Iranian-Iraqi ties.
"I have come to Iran to ask forgiveness for what Saddam Hussein has done. The same has to be done with Kuwait and all Saddam Hussein's victims," he told the news conference.
Tehran has asked Baghdad not to allow the US to establish long-term military bases on its soil, fearing that it would consolidate what Iranians see as the American and Israeli military domination of the region.
But Mr Dulaimi insisted that foreign troops were needed to ensure Iraqi security.
He added: "Iraq will not be a source of insecurity and instability for any of its neighbours. Nobody can use [Iraqi territory] to attack its neighbours."
Among other areas of co-operation, Mr Shamkhani listed mine clearance, anti-terrorism, identifying those still missing from the Iran-Iraq war and training and re-equipping the Iraqi army.
The two ministers said more sensitive issues such as a full peace treaty and war reparations were still a long way from being resolved.
"We have come to our Iranian brothers to ask them for help and we have not yet started on the more sensitive issues," Mr Dulaimi said.
In May Iran's foreign minister promised to tighten security on the two countries' border on his first visit to Baghdad.
An Iraqi government delegation headed by Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari is expected to visit Tehran next week.
Posted by: too true ||
07/07/2005 16:33 ||
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#8
Think Mullah-specific implosion - between now and 2020 the Lefties wanna destabilize and implode the USA, so Dubya's imploding back. The Lefties for the time being don't believe that American-specific DemoCapitalism, Federalism, and Republicanism, etc, can withstand the rigors of Republican Federalist Rightist America fighting for Global Empire and paying for Global Modernization of both friends and enemies, - ISTS and -ISMS! Russia-China are already militarized societies or Nation-States, America is NOT - the Left for now prefers America-destabilizing, PC, anti-US/Western LIMITED WAR(S) with both America and NATO NOT fully mobilized for WW3, aka the Left's FINAL STRUGGLE/CONFLICT - remember, the Lefties and Commies have nothing except the milyuhns and bilyuhns of human lives Socialism can't take care of anyway outside of propaganda. Contemporary Leftism and Socialism stands for nothing except Politics, selfish Power, Profiteering, and Governmentism, and related, getting everything for nothing at no risk/costs or at someone else's PC expense or burden. They want America and only America to bear the full costs, blood, and blame for OWG, Global Socialism, Global Regulation, Global BUreaucracy, and Global Modernization, ....etc, then
when all is said is said and done AMERICA nor it Allies are NOT allowed to control, dominate, or govern its own Empire and OWG. Hell - America is not even allowed to be sovereign as Americans know the same to mean. And just in case the Clintons and their cabal fail, its anti-US Global Nuke War anytime after 2015-2020. The Lefties are power-mad enough, desperate enough, and evil or perverted enough to take the world with them into the abyss of hell.
PESHAWAR - Pakistani troops have arrested six militants, including a suspected foreign Al Qaeda fighter, in a clash near the Afghan border that left one soldier dead, the military said Thursday. The troops had attempted to stop a vehicle at a check post in the restive North Waziristan region late Wednesday but the occupants opened fire and tried to flee towards Afghanistan, the regionâs top military commander said.
Normally it's the other way around
âMy jawans (soldiers) chased them when they were fleeing towards the border area,â Lieutenant General Safdar Hussain told reporters. âWe arrested four militants but some of the vehicleâs occupants, may be four or five, escaped.â The troops tracked them down and in the ensuing clash a troop was killed and four more wounded, and two more militants were captured. One of the captured men was a foreigner who appeared to be an Arab or Uzbek, Hussain said. The identities of the detainees were being established.
You could cut them open and count the rings...
The troops also recovered eight Russian-made machine guns, three hand grenades, four improvised explosive devices and a large quantity of medicines from the militantsâ vehicle, the military said. âThe arrests establish Pakistanâs earnest desire to help Afghanistan to return to complete normalcy,â Hussain said.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 12:13 ||
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Israeli troops on Thursday shot and killed an armed 17-year-old Palestinian suspected of preparing to ambush a convoy of Jewish worshippers near Nablus, the army said. Soldiers also killed one of three Palestinians involved in a grenade and shooting attack in the Gaza Strip. Bloodshed has largely subsided since a cease-fire in February, but sporadic violence has raised fears that Israel's planned withdrawal from Gaza in August could be disrupted and has dampened hopes of peace talks. The Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel pledged last month to work to preserve the truce and coordinate security steps to enable a smooth evacuation of Jewish settlers from Gaza.
The troops killed the teenager near Nablus in the West Bank and severely wounded his friend as a convoy of Jewish worshippers left the Joseph's Tomb holy site. The two Palestinians were on the side of the road, apparently prepared for an ambush, the army said. The two Palestinians belonged to the militant Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades. Ala Sanakra, a leader of the group, vowed to avenge the killing. In the past, Palestinians have desecrated and burned the tomb after acts of violence in the area.
In Gaza, three Palestinians threw a grenade and opened fire overnight at troops force securing the Israeli settlement of Morag, the Israeli military said. The troops returned fire and hit two of the gunmen, the military said. Palestinian security officials said the military had turned over one body.
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has ordered quicker work to finish Israel's contentious West Bank separation barrier, The Associated Press reported from Jerusalem, citing a senior Israeli official, setting off Palestinian accusations that Sharon was undermining peace prospects. The official said the order applied especially to the section enclosing Jerusalem, a sensitive part of the barrier that Palestinians contend is an attempt to take over part of the disputed city. "The order is to progress wherever possible," the official, Giora Eiland, head of the National Security Council, said on Israel Radio. Begun more than two years ago, the barrier, which is intended to extend for 680 kilometers, or 425 miles, is about one-third completed. Court appeals and funding shortfalls have contributed to delays.
In appeals to Israel's Supreme Court, Palestinians have successfully challenged the route of the barrier in several places where it cuts villages off from their farmland or creates other hardships. Some cases are still pending, blocking construction. "Regarding our position at the Supreme Court," Eiland said, "we will try to speed it up and put forward our position in a more convincing way so these holdups can be resolved."
The newspaper Haaretz reported Wednesday that Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz had presented a modified route for the barrier around the Ariel settlement, deep in the West Bank, removing some Palestinian villages from the enclosure in an attempt to avert court challenges. The report could not be confirmed. The Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said Sharon's order to accelerate construction of the barrier "undermines the efforts to revive the peace process." "We urge the U.S. and President Bush to exert maximum efforts in order to have Sharon comply with the cessation of violence and cessation of building the wall," Erekat said.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 11:23 ||
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IRAQI security forces, set up by American and British troops, torture detainees by pulling out their fingernails, burning them with hot irons or giving them electric shocks, Iraqi officials say. Cases have also been recorded of bound prisoners being beaten to death by police. In their haste to put police on the streets to counter the brutal insurgency, Iraqi and US authorities have enlisted men trained under Saddam Husseinâs regime and versed in torture and abuse, the officials told The Times. They said that recruits were also being drawn from the ranks of outlawed Shia militias.
Counter-insurgencies are rarely clean fights, but Iraqâs dirty war is being waged under the noses of US and British troops whose mission is to end the abuses of the former dictatorship. Instead, they appear to have turned a blind eye to the constant reports of torture from Iraqâs prisons. Among the worst offenders cited are the Interior Ministry police commandos, a force made up largely of former army officers and special forces soldiers drawn from the ranks of Saddamâs dissolved army. They are seen as the most effective tool the coalition has in fighting the insurgency.
âItâs a gruesome situation we are in,â a senior Iraqi official said. âYou have to understand the situation when the special commandos were formed last August. They were taking on an awful lot of people in a great hurry. Many of them were people who served in Saddamâs forces . . . The choice of taking them on was a difficult one. There was no supervision. There still really isn ât any, and that applies to all the security forces. Theyâre all doing this.â
âThisâ, said Saad Sultan, the Human Rights Ministry official in charge of monitoring Iraqâs prisons, includes random arrests, sometimes without a warrant, hanging people from ceilings and beating them, attaching electrodes to ears, hands, feet and genitals, and holding hot irons to flesh. Four of his 22 monitors have already quit their jobs, leaving a handful of lawyers to inspect scores of prisons. âTwo months ago I could go into a prison and more than 50 per cent of the people had been ill-treated,â Mr Sultan said. Six months ago the situation had been even worse.
Reports of torture and abuse are commonplace. Omar, a 22-year-old student, said that he was picked up in a night raid on his home in Baghdad by police commandos, who dragged him away from his family to a detention facility. No one told him where he was or what he was accused of, he said. As he was marched into prison, policemen lined up to beat him and his fellow detainees. The prisonersâ handcuffs were tightened until the men screamed. The next day, he and his neighbour were blindfolded and transported to another facility, where his neighbour collapsed unconscious during a beating. He was then led into an interrogation room, where a policeman attached electrodes to his thumbs and toes. âI immediately asked what they wanted and he said something like, âYou have been targeting police and national guardsmenâ. Without waiting for my response, he switched on the electricity, then kept on turning it off and on until I could hardly breathe. âI screamed under torture,â Omar said. âItâs not a place to prove your courage. These guys are trying to kill you for nothing.â He was released without charge after 12 days. I bet they're not such bad guys when you get to know them.
The abuse has not gone unnoticed by the coalition, but little has been done to address it. A US State Department report in February stated that Iraqi authorities had been accused of âarbitrary deprivation of life, torture, impunity, poor prison conditions â particularly in pre-trial detention facilities â and arbitrary arrest and detention.â A Human Rights Watch report also noted that âunlawful arrest, long-term incommunicado detention, torture and other ill-treatment of detainees (including children) Here's the rub. by Iraqi authorities have become routine and commonplaceâ.
Evidence of extra-judicial killings by the security forces has also come to light. Mr Sultan is investigating the case of three members of the Badr Corps, the paramilitary wing of one of the main Shia parties in government, who were arrested by police, handcuffed and beaten to death. An Iraqi official said that the Iraqi National Guard, the US-trained paramilitary police, regularly disposed of the corpses of its victims by throwing them in the river. âThe problem is that some people have still got that training from the past,â he said. âYou have ten or twelve of them in the same unit working, and if they seize terrorists they will torture or kill them.â Oh, no! Say it's not so!
He added that while the de facto death squads were not part of government policy, little was being done to counteract them. âThese are exceptional times. Itâs an emergency.â General Adnan Thabet, the commandosâ commander and a special adviser to the Interior Minister, was a senior officer under Saddam. He was sentenced to death for plotting against the former dictator and was tortured after his sentence was commuted. He denied any allegation of torture, but admitted: âThis is a dirty war. We are the only ones with the nerves to fight it.â Sage advice, methinks.
The group of Al Qaeda's frontman in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, has announced in a purported message posted on the Internet that Egypt's top envoy to Iraq has been killed. Earlier in the week the group claimed responsibility for his abduction.
"We Al Qaeda in Iraq announce that the judgment of God has been implemented against the ambassador of the infidels, the ambassador of Egypt. Oh enemy of God, Ihab el-Sherif, this is your punishment in this life," the statement said.
The group posted a video showing the hostage speaking, but the video does not show the actual killing. On the video, Mr Sherif appeared blindfolded. He identified himself by name and said he was the head of the Egyptian mission in Iraq and also carried the rank of ambassador at the Egyptian Foreign Ministry. "Previously...I was deputy to the Egyptian ambassador to Israel," Mr Sherif said. On the video, he appeared alone without militants. The statement could not be authenticated immediately.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 10:23 ||
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Previously...I was deputy to the Egyptian ambassador to Israel
Ah, so that shows he really deserved to die. [/sarcasm]
Posted by: too true ||
07/07/2005 10:46 Comments ||
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This guys are in the process of slowly pissing off everyone in the world.
This is a good thing.
The day will soon be when eveyone is hunting them down like mad dogs (apoligies to mad dogs everywhere)
Posted by: Michael ||
07/07/2005 12:33 Comments ||
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BAGHDAD, July 7 (UPI) -- Iraq's Interior minister said a "terrorist cell" of eight officers, who planned to bomb the ministry building, has been uncovered at the ministry. Baker Jaber Solagh told a news conference in Baghdad Thursday that the cell conspired with the terrorist group led by Abu Musab Zarqawi to assassinate dozens of senior ministry officials and to bomb the Interior Ministry building. He said it comprised eight officers, including three colonels and a captain, in the internal security forces.
Additional: Iraqi security forces have foiled a plot by senior police officers to bomb the Interior Ministry. Interior Minister Bayan Solagh says that the police officers were linked to Al Qaeda. "We arrested over the past few days a secret military network comprising eight senior police officers and other policemen from the 2nd Brigade who were linked to the so-called Zarqawi group," he said. The 2nd Brigade is responsible for the police car pool.
Interesting, that may explain how car bombers get past security into police stations, they're driving official cop cars from the motor pool.
"The network intended to assassinate top officers and completely destroy the Interior Ministry," he said. He refused to give further details.
"The officers were recruited a year ago and were in their jobs before I took over," the Minister, who was appointed in May, said. Mr Solagh is a member of the Unified Iraqi Alliance, a Shiite-backed group which has called for purging the Interior Ministry of former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath party.
Looks like he was right.
Posted by: Steve ||
07/07/2005 09:56 ||
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Sounds like it's time for Iraqi "interrogators" to ply their trade....
On Thursday a purported Taliban spokesman reiterated a claim that his group is holding a missing U.S. commando and said that insurgent leaders had decided to kill him. No proof was offered to back up the claim. The U.S. military had no comment on the latest claim, saying only that they are making every effort to locate the commando. The Taliban spokesman, Mullah Latif Hakimi, has said previously that the Taliban are holding the commando, who has been missing in Afghanistan for 10 days
Posted by: Howard UK ||
07/07/2005 4:40 Comments ||
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We should watch this. If they do kill him, maybe we should kill say, ten Gitmo Prisioners. Ted Kennedy and Durbin, could'nt say anything about Geneva convention, as the opposition is doing the same.
I do hope we find him first though. Much rather put up with the likes of Durbin, then to lose a great soldier.
#5
plainslow--Don't worry about it. If OS sez this guy is speaking out of his ass, then rest assured they don't have our boy!
OS--Keep up the good work!
Posted by: Dar ||
07/07/2005 7:48 Comments ||
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SEALs don't surrender. If they have anything, it is a dead body.
Kill them OS, kill them all. Make them pay for every innocent killed in the US, Spain, Iraq, and the UK.
#9
Why mess with Gitmo prisoners? We know where they are. Pull all of the Marines and Rangers out and FAE the valley. A lesson even an asshat can understand.
In this case, its becasue one of our own may be in there evading, or else some who rat people out to us. And don't over look the latter, its how we get guys out of tight spots. Look up "Blood Chit" (Google is your friend). It works, and not jsut for aviators.
And then there is jsut general decency, that we do not DELIBERATELY kill non-combatants.
AYODHYA â Police in Uttar Pradesh have arrested another man in connection with the terrorist attack on the disputed Babri mosque-Ramjanmabhoomi complex. The driver who brought the six terrorists from Akbarpur to Faizabad, 60km away, has been arrested.
This followed leads given by the driver of the jeep used by the terrorists militants to come to Ayodhya from close by Faizabad. He had been nabbed on Tuesday morning itself. The terrorists militants are said to have hired a jeep in Faizabad.
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/07/2005 00:02 ||
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Six Belgian F-16 jets departed for Afghanistan from the Florennes air base in the Namur province on Wednesday morning. Four of the planes will remain in Afghanistan for six months in what will be the first Belgian airforce operation outside of Europe, news agency 'Skynet' reported. All six F-16's departed at 9.30am on Wednesday for Akinci, located near the Turkish capital of Ankara. Four planes will then travel onwards to Afghanistan, to arrive at 4.30pm on Thursday (local time). Those planes will guard and if necessary defend Kabul Airport in Afghanistan along with Dutch F-16 fighter jets. The operation is code named 'Eastern Eagle'. The Belgian army has been active from the beginning of the peacekeeping operation in Afganistan, carried out by the International Security Assistance Force (ISDAF). Led by Nato, the operation aims to help establish a representative government and bring peace and security to Afghanistan. Since 2003, Belgian troops have primarily carried out surveillance and security of Kabul Airport, Flemish broadcaster VRT reported. NATO took over command and coordination of the ISAF force in August 2003. Some 47 countries, including Belgium, participate in the international operation.
BAGHDAD - Kidnappers linked to Al Qaedaâs branch in Iraq threatened to kill Egyptâs top envoy here, as Iraqâs prime minister called on other countries to stay the course and keep their diplomats in Baghdad.
But with three attacks on diplomats in four days, at least some Arab and Muslim governments were raising questions Wednesday about security as a condition for upgrading ties to the new Iraqi government, as the United States wants.
The threat to kill Ihab al-Sherif, seized by gunmen in western Baghdad on Saturday, marks a dramatic escalation in a campaign to isolate Iraq diplomatically in the Arab and Muslim worlds. On Tuesday, gunmen fired on senior envoys from Bahrain and Pakistan in apparent kidnap attempts. âTerrorism is trying to strike not only against Iraqis,â Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari told reporters after meeting with Sen. Carl Levin, ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a critic of US policy in Iraq. âWe hope that all countries of the world will stand by us, strengthen the democratic work and carry out political functions, keeping in mind the security regulations,â al-Jaafari said.
The threat on al-Sherifâs life came in a statement on a Web site linked to Al Qaeda. The statement condemned Egypt for allying itself with âJews and Christiansâ - in other words, it linked the kidnapping to Egyptâs announcement last month that it would be the first Arab government to upgrade its mission here to a full embassy headed by an ambassador. Egyptian officials say no ambassador has been designated although al-Sherif was posted here a few weeks before the announcement.
More than a dozen Arab nations have diplomatic missions in Baghdad, but none has a full ambassador - in part because of security fears and in part because governments are hesitant to take a step that could be seen as condoning the US military presence in Iraq.
In the Web statement, the kidnappers said Al Qaeda in Iraqâs religious court had decided to hand over al-Sherif, 51, to its fighters âto carry out the punishment of apostasy against him.â The Web statement was titled, âThe sharp (sword) against the ambassador of infidels.â
Pictures posted on the site showed the front and back of five ID cards in al-Sherifâs name. His Egyptian driverâs license and a Foreign Ministry card showed his photograph. The material appeared on the same site as an audiotape in which a speaker purported to be Al Zarqawi said Iraqâs security forces were as great an enemy as the Americans.
Without mentioning Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak by name, the statement denounced âthat idol of Egyptâ for allegedly promoting US interests in the Middle East and for allegedly torturing Muslims. âHis most recent work to support disbelief (in God) was his initiative to accept the Shiite government of apostasy in Iraq by sending an ambassador to represent Egypt in Iraq,â the statement said. âThis was upon the suggestion of US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice.â
In Cairo, a senior Foreign Ministry official said the Egyptian government was âin continuous contactâ with the Iraqi government âand all other forces of the Iraqi societyâ in an effort to win al-Sherifâs release.
On Wednesday, a prominent Sunni Arab member of parliament and critic of the US role here urged Al Qaeda to withdraw its threat to kill the Egyptian. Mishaan al-Jubouri said al-Sherif and other Arab diplomats can be useful in urging their governments to promote human rights here.
However, a spokesman for a hardline Sunni clerical association blamed the Americans for pushing the Arabs to increase their diplomatic representation too soon. âThe issue started by mistakes committed by the occupation force when it pressured many countries, including Arab countries ... to send their envoys to Iraq,â Muthana Harith al-Dhari of the Association of Muslim Scholars said on Al-Jazeera television. âThe interim government adopted this issue without providing the minimal security measures. It cannot protect itself, so what about the ambassadors?â
Posted by: Steve White ||
07/07/2005 00:00 ||
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I love that last paragraph. The transference of blame from the Sunnis who do the killing and / or support the killers to the occupation forces because envoys are arriving before the Sunnis have pulled their heads out of their asses and realized the train has already left the station. Classic Arab "logic".
Sunnis. Too stupid for words, too arrogant to grab a clue that they aren't running the show, too barbaric to live among others, obviously destined for oblivion.
An Algerian army patrol clashed with members of an Islamic militant group allied with al-Qaeda in the desert of northern Mali last week, killing at least 12 people, a senior Malian defence official said on Tuesday. The gunfight involving members of the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC) took place north of the desert town of Tessalit, close to the Algerian border, in the early hours of June 30, the official said. "In the course of the clash, 12 people were killed and a helicopter was shot down," the official in Mali's capital Bamako said on condition of anonymity.
It was unclear whether those killed were from the army or the rebel side. Algerian newspaper El Watan, citing Algerian security sources, said 13 GSPC members were killed and an army helicopter damaged. Algerian authorities declined to comment. Security sources in Algeria say the group is on its last legs although small, mobile and well-funded units are still seen as a threat to parts of northern Africa. A dawn raid on a remote Mauritanian military post on June 4, in which 15 soldiers were killed, raised fears that the group was expanding its operations in the desert region and surprised some observers who believed it had been largely contained. The attack in Mauritania came as the United States was conducting military training in countries around the Sahara to help stem weapons smuggling and stop militants finding havens in the region.
GSPC deputy head Amari Saifi, who is wanted in Germany for the kidnap of 32 European tourists in the desert in 2003, was sentenced in absence to life in prison in Algiers last month for helping to create a terrorist group. Algerian authorities say Saifi is in custody at an undisclosed location and under interrogation for other terrorism-related charges, but some local media question whether he really is in detention as he has not been shown in public.
I wonder how much of GSPC the Algerians have succeeded in throwing out of the country, and where they're going to light. Mali doesn't seem to be impressed with the idea of having them, and Chad was a disaster. Mauritania didn't work well, and I think the locals threw rotted fruit and tarred and feathered them in Niger. What's left? Central African Republic? Darfur?
Wasn't there a report on some "North Africans" heading for Iraq? Maybe after the money al-Qaeda sent to GSPC with little to show for it, they have been called to pay their debts by sending cannon fodder there.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 00:00 ||
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Hmm..
Nobody complaining about Algeria crossing into Mali to ice some bad boys.
Should copy them and do the same with Syria and Pakiwakiland.
In news just in, the jurisprudence committee of Al-Qaida has cleared the way to implement the verdict of Allah on the Egyptian Ambassador to Iraq Ihab Al-Sharif they have deemed an apostate after interrogation.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 00:00 ||
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Definitely need the Surprise Meter on this one.
The American military is holding five U.S. citizens, apparently including a Los Angeles filmmaker, among more than 10,000 detainees in Iraq on suspicion of possible terrorist or other criminal activity, the Pentagon said on Wednesday. All of the five are being held without charges or access to lawyers. Three have dual Iraqi citizenship, one dual Iranian citizenship and a fifth man, arrested late last year in Iraq, dual Jordanian citizenship.
Of the four arrested this year, one was taken into custody in April, two in May and another in June. Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman declined to identify the five. But the New York Times and Los Angeles Times on Wednesday identified one as Cyrus Kar, 44, an aspiring filmmaker from Los Angeles who was arrested in Iraq in May. Kar's Los Angeles-based relatives told the two newspapers that Kar traveled to Iraq in mid-May to work on a documentary. He was arrested when he was stopped in a taxi in Baghdad by Iraqi security forces, who found what they suspected might be bomb parts in the car. Whitman said they included "several dozen" washing machine timers. Kar's relatives told the two newspapers that on June 14 an FBI agent, John D. Wilson, returned items seized on May 23 from Kar's Los Angeles area apartment and assured them the FBI had found no reason to suspect Kar. "He's cleared," one of Kar's aunts, Parvin Modarress, quoted Wilson as saying, the newspapers reported.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California said it had filed a writ of habeas corpus on behalf of Kar in federal court in Washington D.C. and asked for an expedited court date early next week. Mark Rosenbaum, legal director of the ACLU's southern California chapter, said Kar, an Iranian-American and Navy veteran, had been "virtually incommunicado" from the outside world and his family for 50 days. Rosenbaum called his detention "illegal, unconstitutional and inhumane."
My heart bleeds. I'll prob'ly cry myself to sleep tonight, fall into a deep depression and refuse to speak, ending my days as a hollow-eyed hermit... Unless I forget all about it by the time I'm done reading this article.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 00:00 ||
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Lol! Let the whining begin! But let the Iraqis keep 'em and treat 'em like any other foreign asstards caught playing terr.
#2
Actually I'm kinda disappointed. When I saw the headline I was hoping to read about Mikey Moore, Ted Rall, Jim McDermott, Prick in a Turban Dick Durbin and Dan Rather.
Posted by: Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) ||
07/07/2005 0:32 Comments ||
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#3
Just more "proof" for the Vlad-babe and the Russians that America is behind BESLAN, CHECHYNA, and the WOT, etc. BTW, the Russians are reportedly offerring to arm Iranian submarines with missles- enjoy!?
#5
The American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California said it had filed a writ of habeas corpus...
So what if the Theater Commander says buzz off cause you have no authority in an operational foreign combat zone? Want to see how stupid a judge can be? Want a 'Jacksonian' moment?
#7
Agreed, Sharon! And like HS7791 said, the ACLU has no "standing" in a foreign arena. However, that didn't keep the atheist from suing over the National Anthem for his daughter. This might get play out in California, I'm afraid.
Posted by: BA ||
07/07/2005 10:32 Comments ||
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#8
Taking up arms against the United States forfeits US citizenship.
The Commander and Chief of Al-Qaida in the Land of the Two Rivers, Sheikh Abu Musab al-Zarqawi released a new audio address today in which he makes an emotional, hour long presentation that has some harsh words for George Bush, as well as some strong tonic for the men of the Muslim Ummah who are lagging behind leaving the women to do the fighting. In the almost one hour long address, al-Zarqawi wastes no words in challenging the American president to call upon his âgodâ for assistance against the ever increasing and effect resistance being wage by the Mujahideen.
"Is this thing on?"
âThis is a message for Bush, the arrogant: Your strength has deluded you and you thought that bringing this Ummah to its knees was going to be a cake walk. It never occurred to you that Allah was not going to be kind to you. You claimed that your god ordered you to start this war against us. Where is your god now? The whole world is now witnessing your disgraceful defeat in Iraq at the hands of the people of Tawheed (oneness). Bush, if your god is for real, I challenge you to invoke him to save you from the swaps of Iraq. You once said that those âMujahideenâ worship a wicked idol. Well, the Mujahideen worship Allah and He alone is worthy of being worshiped. It is He (Allah) who filled the hearts of your already coward soldiers with fear of Mujahideen. If your god is for real, invoke him to give your soldiers the courage to stand up and fight.â
In this poignant message, al-Zarqawi also dishes out some strong words to the so-called men of the Muslim Ummah who continue to keep their heads buried in the sand, making several references to Umm Umarah who defended the prophet (pbuh) courageously when the men ran from the battlefield in the battle of Uhod.
âA Mujahid woman is a woman who raises her child not to live but to fight to defend Allahâs religion and die for it.â Shiekh al-Zarqawi goes on to say âMany Iraqi women have written to me asking to permit them to carry out martyrdom operations. One woman has been begging me for 8 months, writing letters to me, not with ink, but with her tears, asking to join the martyrdom brigade. Isnât a shame that we may have to recruit women because men have turned blind eyes and deaf ears to what the cross worshippers do to their religion and their honor? These days are similar to the days of Umm Umarah who defended the prophet when men ran away from the battle field.â
True to what has become his confident and unflinching style, the Sheikh boldly reiterates his position over again with utter determination.
"If the entire Al-Qaida organization in the land of the Two Rivers is wiped out, I mean if all Mujahideen were wiped out in order to free our sisters from the cross worshipperâs prisons and the prisons of the apostate Shiaâh, we will not hesitate for one second to pay this small price."
The sworn enemy of US forces and the apostate Iraqi Army, Sheikh al-Zarqawi vows to continue attacking them as he dares to set his sights past Iraq in this latest audio tape.
âWe canât wait to finish the job in the land of the Two Rivers; our next stop is liberating Al-Quds.â
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 00:00 ||
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Lol! Wotta 'tard.
"If the entire Al-Qaida organization in the land of the Two Rivers is wiped out, I mean if all Mujahideen were wiped out in order to free our sisters from the cross worshipperâs prisons and the prisons of the apostate Shiaâh, we will not hesitate for one second to pay this small price."
Nor will we hesitate to assist you in being wiped out for Allan. Please, step right up, wave your arms a bit, and be patient. Your reward is enroute.
âWe canât wait to finish the job in the land of the Two Rivers; our next stop is liberating Al-Quds.â
Next stop? Lol, talk about reach exceeding grasp! We'll be there long before your kind. Trust me on that, Zarqi.
#2
Sounds like he is getting ready to move to Canada and claim sanctury. What with FOX news interviewing Canadian Terror experts who claim 50 active terror groups supported by welfare, immigration and a political class that wants to see chaos...
#3
What a freekn' noron all five Iraqis that were following him done left. All he has is a bunch of Saudi rejects. So much for his indigenous support. Your horrible death will follow shortly.
#4
Zark speaks like the wretched Goliath who dared to defy God.
The Muslim Ummah who defer the fighting to the woman sound like the faithless Isrealites who defer the fighting to the young boy David.
David defied Goliath because he considered him as nothing compared the lion and the bear.
To find out the final destiny of Zark and his lions of Islam, please, reference I Samual 17.
Posted by: Kristian "Kid" David ||
07/07/2005 2:28 Comments ||
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PEOPLE OF TAWHEED, or "Oneness" - any relation to Socialist UNIVERSAL UTOPIANISM-EGALITARIANISM, where alleged ANTI-GOVT UNIVERSAL/PUBLIC "LAISSEZ FAIRE" = SUPER-GOVERNMENT-LED SUPER-REULATION!? Was watching 30 DAYS last night on channel 54 - the show had a dedicated white male Christian American from West Virginia learning how the 6.0M Muslims in America [Dearborn, MI]live plus aspects of their faith. The show for the most part was passive and neutralist, and alluded that Islam was merely a misunderstood, benign intellectually rational cousin of Judaism/Hebraism and Christianity, CERTAINLY NOT THE ISLAM IMPLIED IN ZARQAWI's ABOVE PROCLAMATION. The Christian young man from WV only had 30 days, but an argument can certainly be made that the Muslims and Islam depicted in 30 Days have essens no relation to the problems and quality of life of their Muslim brethren in the ME, espec where females are concerned. A someone whom has been to several nations of the ME and elsewhere, you might as well compare any modern American or Western woman to her female pre-US Civil War black counterpart. As for WAR OF THE WORLDS, whether one believes America and Americans are the humans or the Aliens, AMERICA GETS WIPED OUT/EXTERMINATED - goes to show, AGAIN, that even when the Lefties are proclaiming to be for America they're in reality against it! * THE WORLD IS ENDING, THE WORLD IS DOOMED, ERGO THE FATE OF ALL NATIONS AND HUMANITY MUST ABSOLUTELY AND UNDENIABLY VEST IN THE HANDS OF THE RUSSIA-CHINA WHOSE SATELLITES KEEP FALLING OUT OF THE SKY OR BLOWING UP, AND WHOM HAVE NEVER SENT A MAN TO THE MOON YET.
#7
Joseph - That entire '30-days' episode was pre-determined - the results determined before hour 1. The show bragged on how it was going to depict muslims as the 'real victims of 9/11' and would never show anything 'negative' about Islam.
I've been working under the hood, rebuilding Thugburg. The programming part of it's not that hard, but there's a lot of handwork involved in populating it. It's an intersting cruise, since I'm looking over each day's Rantburg, starting 9-11-01. I've got a long list of mods I want to make to it, but please give it a look and give me your feedback so it'll actually be usable to somebody besides me.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 00:00 ||
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My suggestion would be have a script that will redump data according to the other category headings such as Al Qaeda, have the script dump all individuals affiliated with AQ, etc.
#2
I noticed that a lot of the big names are repeated many times over, due to their affiliations or the different regional names Rantburg has used over the years
eg:
2446 Hafiz Mohammad Saeed Jamaat-ud-Dawa India-Pakistan
708 Hafiz Mohammad Saeed Lashkar-e-Taiba
2047 Hafiz Mohammed Saeed Jamat-ud-Dawa India-Pakistan
321 Hafiz Muhammad Saeed Lashkar-e-Taiba
324 Hafiz Muhammad Saeed Jamaat al-Dawa Afghanistan/South Asia Supremo
325 Hafiz Muhammad Saeed Markaz al-Dawa wal-Irshad Afghanistan/South Asia Supremo
1136 Hafiz Muhammad Saeed Markaz ad Dawa
1492 Hafiz Muhammad Saeed Jamaat-ud-Dawat India-Pakistan
1516 Hafiz Muhammad Saeed Markaz Dawah Wal Arshad India-Pakistan
Could that be reduced down to just one link that brings up all the different pages associated with that list?
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
07/07/2005 0:56 Comments ||
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The non-standardised spelling of Arabic names presents a big problem, since one turban can be listed a multitude of times because of a K or Q; or an A or AA etc.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
07/07/2005 1:09 Comments ||
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#4
Lol - When I was writing programs in SaoodiLand the spelling issue (not to mention the Al and El prefix idiocy) was always among the first considerations.
You wouldn't believe the shit I got for asking:
If everybody has an "al" prefix, what's the point?
#5
I'm an avid reader of rantburg and truly enjoy it, but am not sure how to register. Having spent years living and travelling through the mid-east would be happy to help research Thugburg. Let me know how I proceed..
Regards
Chris Patterson
#6
Come up for air Fred! What are the numbers on the left of the page? Looks like lot-o-work keeping up with these guys. I like the check-off list for those that have checked out to the land of the dancing virgins. Must be a spelling problem in jihandland--all the els and als, etc.
#7
The search routine compensates for some of the more obvious name problems, but compensating for too many of them creates other problems. I tried doing a Soundex search on them and that produced garbage.
I consider the identical spelling/different organizations thing to be significant -- those are the joins in the org chart in many cases (and misidentifications or misspellings in others, but we're dealing with output from the press here...)
I've got a combined search routine on my list, as well as a limit routine to guard against searches on "Osama bin Laden," which'll return most of our current 66,000 articles and cause the server to gag as it tries to write them onto a single web page.
First thing I noticed from your comments was that I hadn't closed the routine down. Leaving the editing function open to everyone is an invitation for Boris and his Minions of the Night to come in and do terrible things. It should be read-only now, and if it isn't, let me know.
Chris, thanks. I'd love a volunteer or two. Email me and I'll set you up.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 9:40 Comments ||
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#8
For Fred...
One day, a rather studious-looking young dude was walking down a road. His thoughts were interrupted by a voice saying, "Help me! Won't you help me, please?"
He looked down and saw only a frog.
But the frog spoke again, "I'm really a princess. An evil witch turned me into a frog, but if you'll kiss me, I'll turn into a princess, again."
The young dude picked up the frog, looked it over for a moment, smiled, then stuffed it in his pocket and continued on his way.
A little while later, he paused and pulled the frog out of his pocket.
Immediately, the frog said, "Please! I'm really a princess... a beautiful princess! If you'll only kiss me I can turn back into my true self!"
The young man smiled, stuffed the frog in his pocket and continued walking.
Awhile later, he paused again and pulled the frog from his pocket.
Once again, the frog implored him saying, "Don't you understand? I'm a beautiful princess! I've been wrongly turned into a frog by an evil witch! If you'll only kiss me, I'll turn back into a princess! Please! I promise I'll stay with you for a week and do ANYTHING you want! Please!"
He smiled, returned the frog to his pocket and ambled on down the road.
When he finally stopped again, and pulled the frog from his pocket, the frog/princess was beside herself. She said, "Please! What's wrong? I've offered to stay with you for a week and do anything you want! What more can I offer? What more can I do? Just kiss me and I can become a beautiful princess, again, and do anything you may command of me! Please!"
The young man finally spoke, "Hey, I'm a programmer. I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog is cool."
With that, he stuffed her back in his pocket and continued on his way.
(reads:
Waka waka bang splat tick tick hash,
caret at back-tick dollar dollar dash.
Bang splat tick dollar under-score,
percent splat waka waka number four.
Ampersand right-paren dot dot slash,
Vertical-bar curly-bracket tilde tilde CRASH.)
#14
Datewise, that'd be about right - IBM PC's came out Sept-Oct of '81. Sadly, I have a complete collection of mainframe-era schtuff, lol! Inveterate packrat, I guess. DEC, Unix, all waaay pre-VAX, heh.
Gunmen killed four policemen and wounded at least nine more in separate attacks Wednesday. In Baghdad, gunmen killed Capt. Hazim Jabbar, a member of the police special commando brigade, in the west of the city, police said. Jabbar had worked as a bodyguard for a consultant to former interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, police said. Two other police commandos were killed in separate incidents in another west Baghdad neighborhood, police said. Nine police, including a brigadier general, were injured in a series of attacks throughout the capital.
Posted by: Fred ||
07/07/2005 00:00 ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Saudi Arabia is set to release a list naming clerics who will be tried on terrorism charges for issuing fatwas, or religious edicts, which justify terrorist acts. The Saudi newspaper Arab News cites the Saudi interior minister Prince Nayef as saying they will be tried as terror accomplices. He also revealed that authorities are trying to trace additional clerics, whose names do not appear on the list. 
Londoners have paid the price for Iraq and Afghanistan, says George Galloway. The Respect MP, whose Bethnal Green and Bow constituency includes the site of at least one of the bomb attacks, said the attacks were "despicable". But he told MPs it was the US-led coalition's actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo which had inflamed hatred of the West in the Muslim world. 
Fears that Muslims may be become the victims of reprisals following today's London bombings have prompted a warning for them to stay indoors. 
London's Mayor 
Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan," said the statement, which was translated by The Associated Press in Cairo. "The heroic mujahedeen carried out a blessed attack in London, and now Britain is burning with fear and terror, from north to south, east to west."
The BBC has located an Islamist website that has published a 200-word statement issued by an organisation saying it carried out the London bombings. The organisation calls itself the 
"The explosion seemed to be at the back of the bus. The roof flew off and went up about 10 metres. It then floated back down. I shouted at the passengers to get off the bus. They went into Tavistock Park nearby. There were obviously people badly injured. A parking attendant said he thought a piece of human flesh had landed on his arm." 
"There was a big blast followed by the sound of people screaming. I rushed to the window and it was just unbelievable. From what I saw the top half of the bus had been blown off. And people were wandering around in a daze." 
Syria's recent clashes with militants have raised the prospect that the country â under U.S. pressure to keep insurgents out of Iraq â might also be facing a resurgence of Islamic extremists within its own borders. 
Israeli troops on Thursday shot and killed an armed 17-year-old Palestinian suspected of preparing to ambush a convoy of Jewish worshippers near Nablus, the army said. Soldiers also killed one of three Palestinians involved in a grenade and shooting attack in the Gaza Strip. Bloodshed has largely subsided since a cease-fire in February, but sporadic violence has raised fears that Israel's planned withdrawal from Gaza in August could be disrupted and has dampened hopes of peace talks. The Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel pledged last month to work to preserve the truce and coordinate security steps to enable a smooth evacuation of Jewish settlers from Gaza. 
AYODHYA â Police in Uttar Pradesh have arrested another man in connection with the terrorist attack on the disputed Babri mosque-Ramjanmabhoomi complex. The driver who brought the six terrorists from Akbarpur to Faizabad, 60km away, has been arrested.
An Algerian army patrol clashed with members of an Islamic militant group allied with al-Qaeda in the desert of northern Mali last week, killing at least 12 people, a senior Malian defence official said on Tuesday. The gunfight involving members of the 
In news just in, the jurisprudence committee of Al-Qaida has cleared the way to implement the verdict of Allah on the Egyptian Ambassador to Iraq Ihab Al-Sharif they have deemed an apostate after interrogation.
The American military is holding five U.S. citizens, apparently including a Los Angeles filmmaker, among more than 10,000 detainees in Iraq on suspicion of possible terrorist or other criminal activity, the Pentagon said on Wednesday. All of the five are being held without charges or access to lawyers. Three have dual Iraqi citizenship, one dual Iranian citizenship and a fifth man, arrested late last year in Iraq, dual Jordanian citizenship.
Gunmen killed four policemen and wounded at least nine more in separate attacks Wednesday. In Baghdad, gunmen killed Capt. Hazim Jabbar, a member of the police special commando brigade, in the west of the city, police said. Jabbar had worked as a bodyguard for a consultant to former interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, police said. Two other police commandos were killed in separate incidents in another west Baghdad neighborhood, police said. Nine police, including a brigadier general, were injured in a series of attacks throughout the capital.
