Four years after 9/11 and the "crazy zeitgeist" that permeated the United States, most Americans have still not learned to know their enemies instead of just hating them, U.S. political journalist Chris Matthews says.
In a speech to political science students at the University of Toronto yesterday, the host of the CNBC current affairs show Hardball had plenty of harsh words for U.S. President George W. Bush, as well as the political climate that has characterized his country for the past few years. "The period between 9/11 and Iraq was not a good time for America. There wasn't a robust discussion of what we were doing," Matthews said. "If we stop trying to figure out the other side, we've given up. The person on the other side is not evil -- they just have a different perspective."
He said Bush squandered an opportunity to unite the world against terrorism and instead made decisions that have built up worldwide animosity against his administration.
Is anyone paying attention? Is our national attention span so short that we can't hold a single idea for more than four years? Is our national resolve so non-existent that we will cave in to savagery because it's easier to watch teevee?
Four years after 9-11 the "crazy zeitgeist" has dissipated and the nation seems determined to move into the next crazy zeitgeist, something kind of like 1969, only without Altamont. In a few years there can be another crazy zeitgeist â maybe disco will make a comeback â and then another one after that, a series of fads that mean no more than did the rise and fall of the hemline, back when women wore dresses. The current crazy zeitgeist is dissipating precisely because people have not learned to know their enemies.
The basic mistake the Bush administration made in those days following 9-11 was not to make sure that people did know their enemy; if he had, people would hate them with a hatred that was implacable and ferocious.
It's become trendy to "have harsh words" for Bush and his administration. In a sense, it's justified. He's responsible for the political climate precisely because he has not pushed the knowledge of the depravity of the enemy from Day One. There wasn't a "robust discussion of what we were doing" because Bush and his advisors made the assumption that the nation understood what we were doing: that 3000 dead were not only an atrocity perpetrated upon us, but a symptom of a plan for world dominationright out of comic books and really bad novels, only executed by real, live fanatical minions. If you were paying attention, it was as plain as the nose on your face that the enemy is uncomfortably akin to the Nazis our fathers and grandfathers fought. The uniforms aren't as kewl, but the philosophy's pretty close, as is the racism underlying it.
It's the evil that gives them that different perspective. The ultimate aim of that perspective is to rule the world. Their objective is to replace our culture, the one that won at Roncesvalles, with theirs, the one that last at the Gates of Vienna on 9-11-1683. The obstacles standing in the way are the U.S. and a handful of other countries â Israel second on the list, Britain, Australia, and a very few others. Within each of those countries there is a large surrender lobby, made up of people who are similar to Chris Matthews. They don't want to fight a world war, therefore the world war must stop, regardless of the consequences. The decisions Bush made that built up animosity against him and his administration are the result of ignoring that surrender lobby.
Eventually the enemy will succeed in attacking us at home again. They like mass casualty operations, burned bodies, blood in the gutters, that sort of thing. That will probably set off another "crazy zeitgeist," though it won't be as powerful as the last one. We'll take out another few thousand beturbanned fanatics before the ankle biters cause us to withdraw back within our borders, to ponder serious matters such as who killed Jon Benet and how long Britney and Whatsisname are going to last. If we don't stay the course this time, if we don't fight until the battle's won, there's a good chance we'll ultimately lose, because the next time we'll have far fewer allies than we do now. And the time after that, we'll have even fewer.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/21/2005 14:23 ||
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Not to gild the lilly -- great post-- but the other frightening thing to me is that the US surrender party seems to take as an article of faith that in purely military terms the coalition effort in Iraq is an unmitigated disaster. Compared to what? I'm reading a book now on the North African campaign, which is for the most part a litany of real disasters -- half trained US troops being badly led into one costly defeat after another. You just have to imagine how the defeatists would react if, God forbid, one platoon of soldiers or Marines were trapped and wiped out by AlQ.
Posted by: Matt ||
11/21/2005 16:26 Comments ||
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#2
A little math extrapolation for that event in July 1876 when 212 of Custer's command were dropped by the locals. America had around 38 million back then. Today we have around 290 million and in those terms it would have been loses of over 1600. OMG, its a quagmire! The defeatist today would have abandoned the Dakota and certainly the New Mexico territory to the Apaches as well.
However, it's encouraging to understand that if these same twerps ever do something stupid and ignite a second civil war, they're going to fold faster than a house of cards.
#5
It's interesting that Chris Matthews goes to Toronto to say this crap. Perhaps he believes it enough to repeat it on his NBC Sunday morning show? Otherwise, he's just a whore prostituting himself before a foreign audience. A Madonna with a pot belly.
Posted by: ed ||
11/21/2005 16:52 Comments ||
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#6
Yes, Ship, Army at Dawn. I had resisted picking that up because I didn't think too much of the guy's book on Iraq (In the Company of Soldiers) but Army at Dawn is really strong.
Posted by: Matt ||
11/21/2005 17:04 Comments ||
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#7
I was impressed/educated by Army at Dawn... waiting for the rest of his WWII histories. Haven't read his Iraq thing, probably won't. It's that journalism/history divide. You're a fool to try both.
Best I can figure, somewhere between 20% and 30% of Americans are paying close attention to the war-- and nearly half of them absolutely hate the war and hate America for waging it. The rest of America is either watching TV, or boxing the One-Eyed Mullah, or gobbling up the latest gossip about their favorite Hollywood stars, or fretting about really important things like gender equity, diversity and global warming.
"Is our national attention span so short that we can't hold a single idea for more than four years?"
Where in God's name did you get "four years" from???? Most of the Epsilon-Minus Submorons in this country got distracted by bright shiny objects several years ago, and nearly all of the rest went off the rails during last year's elections. The attention span of the average American is shorter than that of most month-old puppies.
"Is our national resolve so non-existent that we will cave in to savagery because it's easier to watch teevee?"
Of course. We had an inkling of that a year ago, when fifty million Americans actually voted for John Fuckface Kerry for president.
Here's an unsettling thought for you: right now, all around the world in countries ranging from our most stalwart allies to our bitterest enemies, there are clear-eyed, no-nonsense men and women dedicated to making, in the service of their governments, the most accurate assessments possible of America's capabilities, intentions, political constraints, strengths and weaknesses.
They are watching. They are observing. And they are drawing conclusions from what they see happening right now in America.
And when I contemplate what they are probably thinking right now, my heart fills with dread.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
11/21/2005 19:47 Comments ||
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It's become trendy to "have harsh words" for Bush and his administration. In a sense, it's justified. He's responsible for the political climate precisely because he has not pushed the knowledge of the depravity of the enemy from Day One.
I'm hoping a lot more people around here will carefully reconsider this notion. While there can be no doubt that America has the collective attention span of a fruit fly, I also maintain that Bush's fundamentalist bent and his administration's general overemphasis upon religiosity has manifested in a reluctance to isolate and hold responsible Islam as a whole.
Instead of going out and attempting to set Islam's house in order for them, a much stronger priority should have been placed on setting the bar for all Muslims worldwide to renounce terrorism and take substantive measures towards eliminating it.
Too much airtime has been given to absolving the Saudis and their Islamist ilk of direct responsibility for the 9-11 atrocity. How often has this administration even called the attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania an "atrocity"?
In an attempt to divert attention from the dangers of all fundamentalist doctrines, there has been some sipping at the Kool-Aid of moral relativism that has ill-served America.
There wasn't a "robust discussion of what we were doing" because Bush and his advisors made the assumption that the nation understood what we were doing: that 3000 dead were not only an atrocity perpetrated upon us, but a symptom of a plan for world domination right out of comic books and really bad novels, only executed by real, live fanatical minions.
We call our politicians "leaders" because they are supposed to do just that. Leadership is supposed to utilize the tools provided by offices of state to expose and highlight those threats that should be of concern to our nation. Far too little was done to ensure that America understood the threat it was confronted with.
Yes, our nation has a near-fatal case of "monkey-mind." Was this obvious fact unknown to our leaders? Absolutely not. How then to explain why they did not act more resolutely to limn the perils confronting us?
No doubt a significant portion of the dangers described to us were just as quickly shrugged off by multi-culturalists and their kumbyah crooning brethern. Still, nowhere near enough has been done to place the ball in Islam's court.
To say that such actions would serve to polarize Muslims is pretty well irrelevent. By now, it should be sufficiently clear that the bulk of Islam has little or no good will for America. That the administration pretends (or acts as if) this were so is simply unacceptable.
In seeking to cloak his own fundamentalist religiosity with a mantle of respectability, Bush has displayed a reprehensible reluctance to call attention to similar (and admittedly far more exaggerated) efforts by Islamists to do exactly the same with theirs.
While the difference in intent regarding Islam is obvious to the discerning eye, those who are not so educated or informed will draw less distinctive conclusions and often find themselves unable to descry exactly why the jihadist threat is so dire. It is this lack of clear deliniation that has made it so difficult for America to clearly identify its very real and rather dangerous enemies.
#12
Hang in there Fred. A lot of us haven't given up yet.
I agree that the Bush administration has completely hosed the information war. I also think that they've fallen into the trap of "guns and butter" like LBJ. The sad thing is that people really do want a cause, something to fight for. Part of the reason for us being so damn complacent is that most of us don't have anything to fight for anymore. Our basic instincts are being denied, and as many in the blogosphere have pointed out, many of us are atrophying into Eloi. The Euros are even worse shape than we are in this regard since there is no moral hazard in their societies at all.
At least, as Ralph Peters said in this morning's NY Post, Bush is willing to fight. He has my support as long as that holds true.
#13
Umm, Zenster, it's actually more the case that Bush was/is HOLDING BACK "Jacksonian" America, something the vomit-brained fascist-lovers fail to understand. They "holler" like scalded shit-rats about Bush being a "Nazi," secure in the historical ignorance of America for the fact that he's been the most restrained President in terms of respecting civil rights in war of any American leader in a major conflict.
Just look at Lincoln, Wilson or FDR's record, and you can see how much he's held back.
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
11/21/2005 22:50 Comments ||
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The Saudi Interior Ministry has announced that people arrested in connection with terror acts will undergo therapy. The Director-General of Relations and Guidance at the ministry, Dr Saud bin Saud al-Musaibeeh, told the official Saudi news agency that the orientation programme is aimed at showing "those with deviated ideologies" the danger those ideologies represent to Muslim society and convincing them to renounce those "destructive thoughts".
"They will be provided with books and will attend orientation courses that will enable them to correct their false beliefs and conceptions through effective means," al-Musaibeeh said.
Those who benefit from the therapy, repent and return to the right path, he said, will be released gradually, after their families confirm that they will not allow them to "return to their deviant thoughts".
However, he stressed that no-one involved in the planning or carrying out of bombings in the kingdom would be included in the initiative, under the express orders of Interior Minister Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz.
He also urged Saudi citizens to cooperate with the authorities in protecting young Saudis against any thoughts which go against Islamic teachings and values. "Everyone has a responsibility, as much as they can to cooperate with the concerned bodies to fight this delinquency which affects the security and stability of the kingdom," the UAE newspaper Gulf News quoted him as saying.
Neighbouring Yemen has tried out a similar form of therapy on arrested terror suspects, spearheaded by magistrate Hamoud al-Hitar, who seeks to steer extremists away from violence and towards accepting tolerance and peaceful coexistence. His unconventional methods of using dialogue sessions to change the mindsets of militants, in return for provisional release, have been observed with interest by intelligence services in other countries.
In 2002 alone, some 346 suspects were released from prison and offered the possibility of taking training courses to help them get a job. One tip-off from a former militant is said to have led to the assassination of al-Qaeda's leader in Yemen, Abu Ali al-Harithi, in 2002. However, last month Yemeni newspapers reported that two Yemenis who died in a suicide bombing in Iraq in July were among hundreds of Islamic extremists released from prison in Yemen under al-Hitar's dialogue programme.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 14:45 ||
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"They will be provided with books and will attend orientation courses that will enable them to correct their false beliefs and conceptions through effective means," al-Musaibeeh said.
"And if that doesn't work, well, we can always cut their heads off later, I guess."
Local tribesmen have abducted two Swiss travellers in Yemen, the Swiss foreign ministry has confirmed.
The Swiss embassy in Saudi Arabia said that negotiations were underway to free the man and the woman, who were kidnapped in the mountainous Maarib province.
"The Swiss consul in Yemen is being kept informed by the local authorities," said Dominik Alder, Switzerland's ambassador in Riyadh, who also oversees Swiss interests in the neighbouring republic.
Alder was not able to say who was responsible for the kidnapping, nor if a ransom demand had been made.
Lars Knuchel, a spokesman at the Swiss foreign ministry in Bern, told swissinfo that the case concerned "a man and a woman of Swiss nationality".
Nobody at the Yemeni embassy in Geneva was available to comment when contacted by swissinfo.
A Yemeni government official told the Reuters news agency that the tourists were taken in the oil-producing Maarib province east of the capital Sana'a. He declined to give more details.
Tribal sources in the area said the kidnappers' leader wanted to secure the release of his brother who was jailed in Sana'a last month on suspicion of stealing a car.
Tourists have often been seized by armed tribal groups in Yemen, a poor country at the tip of the Arabian peninsula where central government control is weak in many areas. They are usually released unharmed after negotiations.
The Swiss foreign ministry warns tourists of "important risks" when travelling to Yemen. The ministry website says that a number of foreign tourists and businessmen have been kidnapped in recent years, occasionally resulting in their deaths.
The ministry recommends travelling within the country only with local guides.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 14:42 ||
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"Honey, will it be Atlantic City or Yemen this year?"
"Oh, Yemen, I think. The rocky wastelands are said to be magnificent."
"Hokay, Yemen it is."
#5
The married Swiss couple were travelling through Maarib province on a package tour with a local guide and driver when they were kidnapped.
Speaking by telephone from an undisclosed location in Maarib province, the Swiss man, who refused to identify himself, told swissinfo: "We are being well treated, and are now waiting for the issue to be resolved and refuse to comment any further until we are back in our hotel."
The couple were kidnapped while exploring the country as part of a package tour booked through the Zurich travel agency, Holiday Maker.
The owner of the travel agency, Plinio Raselli, told swissinfo that the company's website did not inform customers of the danger of travelling in Yemen.
"We have been offering Yemen packages for 15 years and this is the first time something like this has ever happened," said Raselli.
They were kidnapped by a local man demanding the release of his teenage brother, who was apparently arrested three weeks ago for chewing the natural stimulant khat during the fasting season of Ramadan.
#6
If they get back, that is if. I am sure the Travel Agency will get a nice legal notice from the couple's lawyers (who are lining up right now to represent them.)
I am sure these are not the brightest Sweeds alive. You won't even have to ask an Norwegian for that opinion.
A total of 28 terrorist attacks have been committed in Chechnya so far this year, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mikhail Kamynin said.
"A total of 28 terrorist attacks have been committed so far this year, while last year the number of attacks was 130," he told the Germany's Deutschland Radio in an interview, published on the Russian Foreign Ministry's website.
The number of servicemen being killed in Chechnya is also decreasing, Kamynin said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 14:54 ||
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A father and son have been arrested in the central Anatolian Turkish city of Konya for suspected links to al-Qaeda, reported the NTV new channel on Saturday. Police found bomb-making materials and a note that indicated they say that the two were planning al-Qaeda attacks in Turkey. The son, a university student, was released from prison earlier this year after serving a two-year sentence for his involvement in the 2003 Istanbul bombings
Police are carrying out further investigations in Turkey to prevent another al-Qaeda attack from occurring.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 15:22 ||
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2 year prison term for Terrorism. That is about as discouraging as our anti-molestation laws.
The factory of the Spanish bike manufacturer BH has been the target of a bomb attack, Basque news channel Euskal Irrati Telebista reported. A small explosive device detonated at the factory located in the Basque city of Vitoria-Gasteiz on Saturday night, causing minor damage on the company's entrance door and facade.
The attack has been attributed to Basque separatist mouvement ETA, who has been seeking independence from Spain since the 1960's, since BH bikes are owned by a Spanish company, and the other bike manufacturer located in the Basque region, Orbea, sponsors a Basque team, Euskaltel-Euskadi.
#2
I never understood the Basque desire to be a seperate nation. Spain being democratic and a secular country and all. Until the riots in France. Now I realize that they may be oppressed in the old Europe.
#4
Vitoria is a beautiful tree lined city. In the evenings everyone dresses up and wanders around the streets visiting with neighbors and snacking at local restaurants. It is NOT a slum - like the 'suburbs' of French cities. The ETA are a small group of extremists, and they don't have much support among the Basque populace.
An Al Qaida operative who was on the FBI's terrorist watch list was recently captured near the Mexican border, housed in a Texas jail and turned over to federal agents, Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas, said on Friday. "A confirmed al Qaida terrorist, an Iraqi national, was held in the Brewster County jail," Rep. Culberson told ABC Radio host Sean Hannity. "He was captured in Mexico. This was within the last six weeks. He was turned over to the FBI."
No way can the mismanaged, bloated, unionized Federal bureaucracys get the job done without spending 200,000,000,000 billion dollars a year on each illegal deported.
Citizens, local Sheriffs and Cops with funding from the Feds would do a much better job.
and build a wall ASAP!!
only manage 10 miles of the least traveled section of our southern border. Then give state, county, and local cities the resourses to let sherriffs, cops, and citizens
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/21/2005 1:20 Comments ||
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oops bottom two lines, forgots to delete
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/21/2005 1:22 Comments ||
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Red Dog, a wall would be too... uhh, what's the cleanest way to put this... static. ;)
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
11/21/2005 2:02 Comments ||
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Red Dog, a wall would be too... uhh, what's the cleanest way to put this... static. ;)
ok.. build fields of fire, red leg TOT, claymores, Sandys, etc? ;)
I'm sure the Democrats are working overtime to get him into the Catch and Release program. They can probably even find him a job too (in an explosives factory...).
#11
This is one of those stories that just irritates you to the core.
Every government official, elected or bureaucrat ought to be howling mad about this story.
We (the U.S.) spends billions at the border for nothing. Hell, let the citizens or local police handle the situation. Hell, let the girl scouts handle the situation--they would most likely do better than is currently done.
If this problem is not addressed now, we will see another 911. Then we will see all MSM wetting their pants. We will see politicians running for cover. We will hear endless bullshit from Ted, Bill, Jimmy, Dirty Dingy Dimi Harry, Hildebeast, Biden, etc. We will have endless Congressional inquiries about why it happened.
I don't think Washington has the stones to do anything about this problem.
Make this slack jaw jihadists listen to Eminem until he screams that he will give up information. Tryptophan is acceptable too. Keel haul the son of a bitch.
#12
"I don't think Washington has the stones to do anything about this problem."
Not yet - but keep this up folks and they'll grow a pair. They just be a-skeered to do anything, even when it's intuitively obvious to the casual observer, unless they be thinkin' the voters will cover their sorry asses. Threatening them with massive bitch slappin' works, too, heh. The smart ones, okay - there aren't many of those, I admit - have people reading the blogs and such, taking the pulse, doncha know. They'll hear you eventually. Prolly right after the first hit is credited to an illegal, and it doesn't matter which border he crossed... in fact, I'd wager a sizeable sum that many many more of the jihadi types come across from Canuckistan than Smacksico. The really like 'em up there. You can tell cuz they let so many in and don't watch 'em any better than we do.
#14
It's one thing to identify a problem. It's another matter to figure out how to solve that problem without causing side effects that are themselves pretty bad. Even where security is at stake, there are tough tradeoffs around building a fence or diverting massive amounts of military or police presence to the borders.
We desperately need a public debate on the issue, but it's simply false to say that nothing is being done now. There ARE things being done - including, for instance, UAVs being deployed for constant border surveillance as quickly as they can be built and pilots trained. The "No One Cares About Border Security" meme is being echoed a little too casually IMO.
Are we doing as much as I'd like? No.
Should we do more? Yes.
Have we had some successes in stopping these homocidal idiots at our borders? Yes - more than one, since at least the Y2K guy who tried to come into Washington state from Canada in 1999 and others since then too.
Is the Administration oblivious to the problem? Not so far as I can see. But a) they do NOT have popular support for taking tough measures - and probably will not until/unless one attacker slips through and successfully kills a lot of people here at home again and b) there really are those nagging economic and other considerations to be factored into the equation.
It's a tough one and as a society we're going to need to figure out some common agreement about civil liberties v. security here at home. I wish I felt optimistic that we could do that without tearing the country apart.
#15
John Q We (the U.S.) spends billions at the border for nothing While I agree billions are wasted - at least they caught this guy. Of course, it may have been other security services who fingered him.
As for the border - we could shut it within a year - if that's what we wanted. But we are like France in this regard. All talk and no meaningful action because we want to have our border with Mexico two ways. We want the honest workers (maybe you don't, but enough people do). But thanks to a happy marriage between the PC crowd and big business - nobody wants to come up with a real program that would allow workers and protect them.
The only difference I see between our government and the French government on the issue of dealing with a massive immigration problem is that we have armed citizens willing to patrol the border and now THAT'S becoming an issue our Federal Govn't has to address.
#16
It drives me nuts when I hear someone say "it costs too much to put up a secure border fence. We don't have the money." Thats total Barbara Streisand. The Fed Gov can come up with 70 billion dollars in 1 day when theres a hurricane. They could fund this thing if they wanted to. Too many spineless empty suits in Washington.
#17
There ARE things being done - including, for instance, UAVs being deployed for constant border surveillance as quickly as they can be built and pilots trained. The "No One Cares About Border Security" meme is being echoed a little too casually IMO.
UAVs cannot determine a person's intent, nationality, or legal status. This seems to be too heavy a reliance on technology. What is needed is people on the ground sorting out the border crossers.
While it is good that we caught the A-Q guy, it seems to be happenstance. Moreover, the guy was turned over to local authorities because he pissed off the Mexicans.
I am against encroachment at our borders by illegals. They are illegals by definition. They are breaking our immigration laws. I am not for looking the other way when the "good" ones come across and trying to stop the "bad" ones when the attempt to cross. We need to enforce our laws.
A-Q is learning Spanish. They are scoping out our weaknesses. They will at some point attack us. Agreed we have Posse Comitatus issues but I don't think that means we can't do anything. There are plenty of things we can do.
#18
It's not the cost of the fence that I was thinking about when I mentioned economics. It's the wider / more subtle impact on our economy of slowing down trade and the flow of those laborers who do a good job and want to work responsibly here.
The Wall Street Journal has its own biases, but is a good indicator of concerns that bigger businesses have. There's an editorial up today about the fact that we are a bit less attractive than we used to be to rising new talent around the world.
Our economic system is powerful and flexible, but that power and flexibility hinges on openess to new ideas, new capital and new people. Walls on our borders will have a negative impact on the economy. The question is, how much of one and to what degree could that be mitigated somehow?
#19
HA!! I knew it! Experts where saying that they would only come through Canada because:
Canada has a higher Muslim population and better support base.
Guests of Mexican jails stay longer.
I knew that was bull! You go with the easiest way in. With a few hundred thousand illegals crossing each year, it's easier to blend in.
Posted by: Ray Robison ||
11/21/2005 10:45 Comments ||
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I'd tend to agree 2b. In one corner are the crying phukwits complaining about how unfair it is to remove illegals and in the other there are phukwits complaining that because our government's turned a blind eye to illegals for years certain businesses have come to rely upon being able to hire illegals as a matter of right and the sky will fall unless they are allowed to carry on business as usual. It all adds up to an unholy alliance that does not benefit the majority of Americans in any way. Everyday I wonder just what will it take before spineless Beltway rodents feel cornered enough to act affirmatively on behalf of the majority of us.
#21
A-Q is learning Spanish. They are scoping out our weaknesses. They will at some point attack us. Agreed we have Posse Comitatus issues but I don't think that means we can't do anything. There are plenty of things we can do.
Agreed on the Spanish link. And it's not just the Islamacists - the MS-13 network is deadly in their own right, has already targeted US cops for assasination and have also formed some connections with al-Qaeda. They've been moving in on the coyote business on our southern border, which is one reason the Feds arrested 800 or so MS-13 members a few months ago. Remember that operation? They've arrested over 1000 gang members in all in 2005 so far.
That was "boots on the ground" work.
Re: Posse Comitatus - even if we did not have a single soldier deployed overseas, we would be hard put to patrol the what, 6000? miles of borders, as if the whole country is an armed encampment. So there has to be some mix of things that are somewhere between what we are doing now and putting the country into a vault.
#22
PS: don't underestimate the value of the UAVs. They are a valuable force multiplier when used for recon/surveillance. Used correctly, with the right people/training to act on info gathered, they're a very useful asset.
We've only been using them in Dept Homeland Defense for about a year now. I suspect we need a lot more training of the border patrol people before we will get the value from them that the Army gets, but then that's true of most tactical assets. Also, there have been some operational issues regarding UAVs within our national air space ... things relating to commercial and private manned planes being able to see/ recognize them etc. Those have mostly been worked out now at the FAA (see this memo), which means they can be deployed more aggressively along the borders..
#23
I thought I'd throw the following into the debate. If anyone has any doubts about what A-Q and other terrorists are capable of go to Michael Savage's website and scroll down to the section regarding "Know your enemy." I must warn you, it is grisly, grim, and very ugly. Check it out if you have any doubts about A-Qs intentions. Link
#24
"He was captured in Mexico. This was within the last six weeks. He was turned over to the FBI."
Interesting that this happened within the past six weeks, yet the date on this article was yesterday. And then the congressman that mentioned this was said to have spoken of it on Friday.
I wonder, just who is tryin' to keep this hush hush so that the public doesn't get even more pissed off about the border situation than they already are?
#25
lopt - bravo. The greatest lies contain a truth. You put your finger to your chin and state that we benefit from the workers. Brilliant! How do you do it?
The issue is not that we welcome the hard working Mexican immigrants. The issue is that the method by which we allow them to enter the United States is less than satisfactory. Oh and that pesky matter that during the WOT it's downright dangerous. But, hehy, I guess it won't be YOU who gets blown up by a terrorist act. It will be "somebody else", right?
Just so we can all be clear here and not get wrapped up in your strawman, the real issue here is about HOW we should deal with allowing immigrants into our country.
You aren't as nice as you'd like to think you are. You think it's no big deal when a little boy gets his tiny arm rolled over so his dad can make a buck. And you don't seem to mind that those Mexican workers whom we all value and appreciate are forced to cross the border in a manner that puts them at great risk for rip-off, rape, and death. And you don't seem to mind that the manner in which they are allowed in here makes them easy prey for rip off once they arrive. The whole reason that they are so cheap is because there are no laws to protect them. They can't complain if an employer chooses not to pay them or makes them work in unsafe conditions.
Some of us believe that we should focus some energies into finding a BETTER way to import workers that benefits both us and the workers. In the process, we can secure our borders from terrorists. Maybe you feel confident that it will be some other sap who gets to have their Starbucks coffee blown right through their brain matter - but some of the rest of us would like to attempt to decrease those odds.
Defense Department Unveils Homeland Defense Strategy
To secure the United States from direct attack, the U.S. Defense Department has created the Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support based on an active, layered defense. Objectives of the 10-year plan include attaining maximum awareness of potential threats; deterring, intercepting and defeating threats at a safe distance from the United States; achieving mission assurance; and supporting civilian authorities to minimize damage and recover from attacks. Among the resources required to achieve these goals are intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities; information sharing; joint operational capabilities; and interagency and intergovernmental coordination. The strategy focuses on building transformational capabilities, enhancing maritime awareness and strengthening international cooperation.
#29
lopt. I guess I owe you a bit of an apology. I focused on your highlight of the WSJ editorial and a few other comments and posted without reading all of your thoughts. Guess I jumped the gun a bit. "I'm Sorry".
#30
lotp. There is a 6000 mile border. If the Border Patrol were beefed up to 24,000 along the border and there were a fence, this would mean a Agent could patrol a quarter of a mile. Close communications with other agents would insure a quick response if needed. If the Border Patrol and the Federal Bureaucracy doesn't give one warm fuzzy feelings, then employ local citizens. Deputize and train them. Provide good communications. There are obviously many citizens willing to help out the Feds. The Feds seem to have the attitude that if it didn't come from us it can't be worth a damn.
There is always the .308 solution. Hit a few between their suspenders and they won't be so likely to want to come across illegally. Might solve a lot of drug problems in this country at the same time.
#32
I generally agree with you, John Q., that there are a lot of citizens who want to help. It's gonna take some thought and training to keep that from becoming vigilante groups, tho.
Old Patriot has an idea about how to make that happen but I can't find it on his blogsite any more, for some reason. Basically, he wants to deploy a National Militia (as opposed to the state National Guard units).
#33
I'm not certain what happened in Post #23. The Michael Savage link is: http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/ for any doubting Thomases. Paste it into your browser.
#34
Actually, 2b, I support the idea of a guest worker program. Partly on the basis of humane concerns you raised, but also because remittances from workers provide an important economic and indirectly political benefit to their home countries, where setting up competitive industries that might employ them at home isn't going to happen overnight.
Oh and that pesky matter that during the WOT it's downright dangerous. But, hehy, I guess it won't be YOU who gets blown up by a terrorist act. It will be "somebody else", right?
My daughter was a few blocks from the WTC on 9/11 and we had friends in the wing of the Pentagon that was hit that day. We also have friends who have / are serving in Iraq and the people in my office have been to more than one funeral in the last few years for old friends/colleagues who came home in caskets.
The threat of Islamacist attacks is quite real and tangible to me.
#37
lopt - I apologize for the unjustified remarks. I agree with much of what you posted. Too often people change this subject to make this discussion about the benefit of Mexican workers. I zoned right in on that and went off. You have some great comments. I'll just slip out this back door....quietly.
#41
borders with Canada in the west are the simplest way in or out.
Just walk or drive across some farm road or open country.
Back pack in through Glacier and places like that.
Canoe across in boundary waters with plenty of Off spray.
Infinite ways.
#43
Shit bit of a chance one or more of the Al Q goons is coming into the US through the Canadian backcountry.At least not one who isn't a white guy or invisible.
Shit ain't gonna happen without more than a few rednecks noticing it, because you may cross the border away from civilization, but you can't survive without finding a town somewhere up there for resupplying.
Unlike the Southern border where brown people are commonly seen swimming rivers and taking midnight strolls in the desert you'd be hard pressed to find brown skinned folks hanging out in Havre Montana or some town in North Dakota if they ain't Natives.
Hell, if you ain't from most of those towns, they'll notice you as out of place. No turnstyles for immigration up there like on the Southern border. If you don't belong, you will be removed, one way or another.
Maybe the idea of terrorists crossing the wild Canadian border seems realistic, but let me assure you, it ain't. Unless you are a local or a real hardcore woodsman, you will be hard pressed to make it out of the Bob Marshall or similar Wildderness alive.
Too many very experienced hunters die every year on routine hunting trips, with their GPS's, maps, and local knowledge for me to believe some ass munch 25 year old pakistani kid is going to make it out of that wilderness. It's just not realistic.
Without some sort of logistical base in one or more rural towns along the border you'd be hard pressed to survive if and when you ever made it into the US from Canada, at least in Montana or North Dakota.
#45
Elvis, I think there might be a few St. Pancake wannabe's at Evergreen College who might be willing to drive up next to the border and pick someone up on the side of the road.
And yes I do think its possible for someone like Cindy Shithan or someone at moveon.org to actively, and physically, assist a 'freedom fighter' across the border.
BTW: Very good comments! I think we could have a 'guest worker' program -- but only when the people go back home to their home countries and apply from there. And don't just have the 'Guest Workers' from mexico.
I know someone who has a business supplying workers for factores and the like in Taiwan. He brings the workers over from the Philippines, Vietnam and other countries to work in the Taiwanese factories. It works - the workers earn a lot of money which they can take or send home, the factories have workers, and he makes a decent profit as well. There is no reason such a business cannot supply 'Guest Workers' here.
#46
Lol. Let's put on our thinking caps, boys 'n girls. The Bad Guys don't just come charging across with some vague notion of creating havoc.
They have accomplices, safe houses, money, logistics. Somebody to pick them up. Someplace to stay. Someone with some time on the ground - legally - know knows the lay of the land, where to buy supplies, etc.
Good grief. Agreed, the alQ people aren't rocket scientists, but they're certainly smarter than many have given them credit for in this thread. Sometimes it does get silly.
Iraq's foreign minister said Monday that terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi might have been killed in a gunfight with U.S. forces over the weekend, but U.S. military sources told NBC News that's probably not the case and that troops likely "just missed" capturing him.
"American and Iraqi forces are investigating the possibility that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's corpse is among the bodies of some terrorists who died in the special military operation in Mosul," Hoshyar Zebari told Jordan's official Petra news agency during a visit to Moscow.
A Pentagon source said that the military did have intelligence that indicated al-Zarqawi was meeting in a Mosul home with high-level Iraq in al-Qaida lieutenants. As soldiers closed in on the site, there was an exchange of small arms fire, then it appears that three al-Qaida suspects blew themselves up to avoid capture.
The military is conducting DNA tests on flesh and blood recovered from the scene, but a Pentagon official said indications are that al-Zarqawi is not among those killed.
"The information was solid. We just missed him," said one Pentagon source.
Separately, White House spokesman Trent Duffy said Sunday that reports of al-Zarqawi's death were "highly unlikely and not credible."
"We have no indication that al-Zarqawi was killed in this fight and we continue operations to search for him," added Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a U.S. military spokesman.
The elusive al-Zarqawi has narrowly escaped capture in the past. U.S. forces said they nearly caught him in a February 2005 raid that recovered his computer.
In other incidents:
* North of the capital, Diyala provincial police said a car bomb targeting U.S. Humvees killed five civilians and wounded 12 bystanders in the town of Kanan. At least 145 Iraqi civilians have died in a series of attacks over the last four days, including two bombings at Shiite mosques and another at a funeral.
* U.S. troops opened fire on a minivan north of Baghdad on Monday, fearing a car bomb attack, and killed at least three members of the same family, including a child, the U.S. military and survivors said. The Army said troops had opened fire after first trying to wave the minivan to a stop and then firing warning shots. âThis is a tragedy,â said Maj. Steve Warren, a spokesman for U.S. forces in Baquoba, near where the shooting occurred.
* Gunmen killed a Sunni cleric, Khalil Ibrahim, outside his home in the largely Shiite southern city of Basra, police Capt. Mushtaq Talib said. Ibrahim was a member of the Association of Muslim Scholars, a group of influential Sunni clerics that has been sharply critical of the Shiite-led government.
* In Baghdad, three people, including one police officer, were killed by gunmen, police said Monday.
* Over the weekend an American soldier near the capital and a Marine in the western town of Karmah were killed in separate insurgent attacks, the military said.
* The U.S. military also said Sunday that 24 people â including a Marine and 15 civilians â were killed the day before in an ambush on a joint U.S.-Iraqi patrol in Haditha, west of Baghdad in the volatile Euphrates River valley.
In Washington, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Sunday on ABC television's "This Week" that commanders' assessments will determine the pace of any military drawdown. About 160,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq as the country approaches parliamentary elections Dec. 15.
The Pentagon has said it plans to scale back troop strength to its pre-election baseline of 138,000, depending on conditions. Rumsfeld said Iraqi security forces, currently at 212,000 troops, continue to grow.
Rumsfeld also said talk in the United States of a quick withdrawal from Iraq plays into the hands of the insurgents.
"The enemy hears a big debate in the United States, and they have to wonder maybe all we have to do is wait and we'll win," he told "Fox News Sunday."
In Cairo, Egypt, Iraq's president said Sunday he was ready for talks with anti-government opposition figures and members of Saddam Hussein's outlawed Baath Party, and he called on the Sunni-led insurgency to lay down its arms and join the political process.
But President Jalal Talabani, attending an Arab League-sponsored reconciliation conference, insisted that the Iraqi government would not meet with Baath Party members who are participating in the Sunni-led insurgency.
"I want to listen to all Iraqis. I am committed to listen to them, even those who are criminals and are on trial," Talabani told reporters, but adding that he would only talk with insurgents if they put down their weapons.
In Baghdad, hundreds of Sunnis on Sunday demanded an end to the torture of detainees and called for the international community to pressure Iraqi and U.S. authorities to ensure that such abuse does not occur.
Anger over detainee abuse has increased sharply since U.S. troops found 173 detainees, mainly Sunnis and some malnourished and with torture marks on their bodies, at an Interior Ministry prison in Baghdad's Jadriyah neighborhood.
Iraq's Shiite-led government has promised an investigation and punishment for anyone guilty of torture.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 15:15 ||
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#1
I don't think I would buy another "just missed him" with Zarqawi. That's just a tad too lucky.
#2
I am still not giving up hope he is dead. If he isn't his days are numbered the net is slowly closing around him. I just want it to be done quickly.
"Get back, get back!" shouted Cpl. Sean Thompson after poking at the suspicious mound of rocks during a marine patrol to look for insurgents' improvised explosive devices.
"Daisy chain, daisy chain here, don't nobody go off the road!"
Thanks to the corporal from Seminole, Fla., the "daisy chain," explosives linked together, never went off.
But they illustrate the difficulty of keeping insurgents permanently out of New Obeidi and the other towns in Anbar Province, along the Syrian border. Marines of the 3rd Battalion of the 6th Regiment have fought to wrest control of these towns from insurgents over the past three weeks in Operation Steel Curtain.
This region of Iraq is home to supply lines, incoming foreign fighters, and insurgent bases. Throughout Steel Curtain, insurgents have typically resisted then melted away rather than confront the Marines' fire power. At least 11 marines have been killed since the operation began.
More than 100 insurgents have been killed and several hundred have been arrested.
After the bullets
Resting in the bend of the Euphrates River, New Obeidi, located next to Obeidi, is a microcosm of the challenges and pitfalls of the broader fight against insurgents. It was the last city taken by the marines in Steel Curtain. Fighting ended last Thursday, and the battle has turned to ensuring that insurgents don't return.
A day after the bullets stopped flying here, marines began 24-hour foot patrols through the streets. Residents come forward to point out weapon stockpiles by day while insurgents plant IEDs by night. Children wave and some men shake hands with the marines. Others hang back offering only hard stares.
"These guys smile and shake your hand today, but you kill one of their brethren ... you make your own enemies if you're not careful," says Sgt. Antonio Farmer, of Wilson, N.C., as he walks through a dusty field. "It's hard to know when to turn it on and to turn it off, the aggression."
The scars of the battle are all around him and makeshift white flags fly from rooftops, car windows, and residents' hands as they walk the streets.
As the patrol makes it way through the grid of streets in this community that was planned around a fertilizerfactory, residents emerge to watch, and children cautiously test the playfulness of the marines.
The marines have been told by their commanders that a positive climate here is essential to keep insurgents away.
One marine approaches a man standing alone and offers a handshake, but the man pulls his hand away, offering instead a stern nod of acknowledgement. At the next house a group of men and boys wave. "Good, good!" they shout.
"The situation is very miserable. All the people in this city spent [three or four nights] outside the city," says Abu Abdullah, a political science professor, in rusty English. He refuses to give his full name. "All this destruction and death came under the slogan of democracy. Is this democracy? Is this a civilization? Is this freedom?"
But on the same street where Abdullah stands, three men are trying to get the marines' attention to show them where two IEDs were hidden in the garden of a home.
"I'd hate to shoot one of these kids in the head.... You do what you can because the enemy blends in. [It's a case of] 'no better friend and no better enemy,' because you never really know who" you are dealing with, Farmer says.
The majority of the people on the street just want to know if the Marines will compensate them for their damaged homes and cars.
So many have questions that it takes two hours for the marines to walk just a few blocks. "We want to have a good relationship with them [so] that if we see anything they will tell us. The only way to have that is to get their trust, and the only way to do that is [reconstruction]," says Sgt. Ryan Ashabranner, of Cypress, Texas, on a different patrol.
During these first patrols around the city following the fighting, the marines are charged with the painstaking work of sweeping each street for IEDs in the road and weapons left behind by insurgents.
The rebuilding and humanitarian work will be done by other marines who are just setting up such programs. But without an interpreter and few answers to questions, marines like Farmer and Ashabranner are left to hand gestures and whatever English the residents may know to communicate.
Where's the 'boom boom'?
"Boom? Boom?" they often ask while making an explosion gesture with their hands to ask residents if they know where any weapons or IEDs are.
Many of the marines in the 3rd Battalion of the 6th Regiment are familiar with this side of fighting the insurgency. Roughly half of them served in Afghanistan.
"We know you have to get out and in touch with the people. Just driving by, everyone waves, but that doesn't do anything. Being in Afghanistan they learned they had to get out and interact with the people. It's the only way this thing is going to get won," says Capt. Clinton Culp of Amarillo, Texas, the commander of the weapons company that is overseeing the New Obeidi area.
That presence pays dividends. After walking the street for a few days, Farmer judges the remaining insurgent influence by the way the children react to them on a given street.
"Some places the kids will play with you, make fun of you 'big bad American soldiers.' But go to other places and it's different. They shy away from you," says Farmer. "Atmospherics are going to be a big part of success in this town."
Human rights groups attacking the new US spider mine system "inhumane" BS. This mine system is awesome a US version of IED. These mines are planned as sensor/attack/defence systems. The system is planned as a area denial that is not a dumb mine but controlled by a computer so can in theory be placed all over as a sensor network that can be turned to leathal or even some future non-lethal options. Placement around bases and in areas of high enemy precense then a soldgier back at base armeed with a laptop can watch a huge area allerted to enemy precense then decide to take action immediatley or send in a scout or such. These things could be setup pre-raid then when the rats run all of the sudden no warning death comes. Massive demorilization of the enmey who can die at random with no warrning by air or mines sensors everywere monitoring thier movement and even killing them on command. Oh also the article says how can a guy know its a hostile threat when it is just a blip on a screen well that statement is misleading the reports I have seen is this spider system will include all kinds of different sensor systems so it will be more than just a blip on a screen.
Zark is probably not dead. He probably does have ringworm.
U.S. forces sealed off a house in the northern city of Mosul where eight suspected al-Qaida members died in a gunfight - some by their own hand to avoid capture. The White House said Sunday that it was ``highly unlikely'' that the terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was among the dead.
Police Brig. Gen. Said Ahmed al-Jubouri said the raid was launched after a tip that top al-Qaida operatives, possibly including al-Zarqawi, were in the house in the northeastern part of the city. During the intense gunbattle that followed, three insurgents detonated explosives and killed themselves to avoid capture, Iraqi officials said. Eleven Americans were wounded, the U.S. military said. Such intense resistance often suggests an attempt to defend a high-value target.
But Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman, said reports of al-Zarqawi's death were ``highly unlikely and not credible.''
Rats.
American soldiers controlled the site Sunday, and residents said helicopters flew over the area throughout the day. Some residents said the tight security was reminiscent of the July 2003 operation in which Saddam Hussein's sons, Odai and Qusai, were killed in Mosul.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
If we didn't get him, we got close. The nature of this engagement does speak to that. Here's hopin' he's worm food.
Posted by: Rex Mundi ||
11/21/2005 1:29 Comments ||
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#2
But here's props to the White House for downplaying the reports to downplay any chance of a "Hey, I'm dead despite the US 'confirmation' thereof!" videotape for AQ to cheer; also, any AQ Internet-wannabes are denied the answer unless they have their own line of info.
If he's not dead, then I don't consider Mosul a success unless there's intel which will build up for the next attempt or unless (bigger-picture) it helped screw with AQ some, disrupt them however momentarily.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
11/21/2005 2:06 Comments ||
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#3
I am still hoping he is a spot on the wall. I even hope more that his own did it to him and it leaks out through the cracks in their own organization. Talk about a double blow, that would be one.
#8
I suspect we'd sit on the news as long as we can to milk whatever intelligence value we can derive without letting the other bad guus know we're closer to them.
#9
If you can spoof Zarqawi's communication, why admit he's dead? You can still use the comm link to bring others out from under their rocks at least for anohter week or even month. Like Mr. Ben himself.
#10
I am still hopeful that the SOP's are to keep a lid on his death for as long as possible to see what else can be rolled up, but it is just too big a story for the Iraqi security forces, or the informants or their neighbors to keep it quiet. After all, if someone dropped the dime on where Z man was conducting business, someone has the winning lotto ticket for his reward money. You would need time to enroll them into the witness protection program.
Meanwhile, Mrs. al-Rishawi is alive and apparently talking. She can certainly tell her interrogators the location of the other insurgents and perhaps Zarqawi's hiding place.
I'm starting to think they got the bastard. I think this boomerslut helped.
#12
The Jordan bombings involved one of AZs top guys, being noted as a sign AZ is hurting for guys. I agree and seeing 8 more get there virgins is awesome, even if they didn't get AZ, which I think they did based of the intel from the female bomber who lived. I wonder if they tortured her to get this intel....
Posted by: Ray Robison ||
11/21/2005 10:49 Comments ||
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#13
someone has the winning lotto ticket for his reward money
ONE British soldier was killed and four others injured yesterday in a roadside bomb blast in the southern Iraqi city of Basra. Local police said a vehicle had been destroyed by the blast, which happened at 12.30pm local time. The soldiers were said to have been on routine patrol at the time of the attack.
The Ministry of Defence refused to comment on the extent of the injuries and said no further details would be revealed until the dead soldier's family had been informed. Major Steve Melbourne, British forces spokesman in Iraq, said the casualties were being treated in a field hospital. Asked about whether insurgents could have been behind the attack, he said: "We don't really have the problem with insurgents. It is more the terrorist element. These are very small groups that operate in the area. They cause serious risk to both ourselves and the local population of Basra." He said the troops who were attacked had been on routine patrol in the area.
"The area has been secured. The investigation is ongoing and further details on that will be released as they become available," he added. Maj Melbourne said there were no reports of any gunfire at the time of the attack. The latest death takes the number of British service personnel who have died in Iraq since the start of hostilities in March 2003 to 98.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/21/2005 00:00 ||
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The IDF went on higher operational alert Sunday along the northern border after "irregular" actions by Hizbullah guerrillas.
Sunday night, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon convened an urgent situation assessment with Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz and top IDF brass over the troubling Hizbullah behavior. The situation with Syria and Lebanon was also discussed, government sources said.
According to the sources, Hizbullah has been detected taking unusual steps near Mount Dov, which intelligence officers here interpret as preparations by the Iranian-backed group to stage a "quality attack," like kidnapping soldiers.
The Northern Command has ordered its troops in the vicinity to take precautionary measures to deal with the warnings, military sources said.
Shortly after the meeting, IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz issued a public warning to Lebanon to take responsibility for its country. "The reality of today is one where the government of Lebanon is allowing armed militias to operate," Halutz said.
"Our address is the government of Lebanon. We won't be dealing with any organizations and not point a finger at the sovereign state and the people who are leading it and demand that they fulfill their basic obligation and control what is happening in their country," Halutz said in a lecture at Tel Aviv University.
"Hizbullah is scrambling things up on the northern border at this moment. Hizbullah understands that it is playing with fire, but this is because the firefighters in Lebanon aren't working. These firefighters are the government of Lebanon and no one else."
Halutz also said that Syria was aiding Hizbullah both directly by arming them and indirectly by "synchronizing" their actions.
Meanwhile, Jerusalem police went on a heightened state of alert Sunday night amid an accumulation of intelligence warnings over an impending Palestinian terror attack in the city, police said. However, the alert was lifted later in the night.
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Yeah, Hizbollah kills. And Hizbollah - or easily targeted sections of Southern Lebanon and Syria - needs to be killed. Hizbollah won't be killed because any attack on them would be joined by the Iraqi Shiite majority. Reminder, besides al-Qaeda, no other terrorist group has murdered more Americans.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20050519-092915-7312r.htm
Nation-building hasn't worked in Iraq, and it is plain and obvious that all misguided support for what was nothing but subsidized Islamofascism, was short sighted and firmly rooted in Madisonian conformism. I would suggest that the majority who are indulgent to political Islam in Iraq, consider changing your first principles. What is wrong with basing a foreign policy on: American security. So, we say screw the Shiites and Sunnis, affirm a protection agreement with the Kurds (and tolerate their ethnic cleansing of Sunni crap), close the border with the Iran terrorist entity and we seize the Iraqi oil fields (except in proto "Kurdistan") and place an 200 mile annihilation radius around them.
You all heard what happened in Congress last week. Change your stay-the-course-to-insecurity mindset. Congress will adopt a hardline, if it works. Frankly, it is hard to comprehend the fact that anyone could read Rantburg everyday, yet be disinclined to write-off Muslims. Just think of them as: cockroaches in human form. Billions of Russians, Europeans, Chinese, Indians, South East Asians, etc would love to follow US repression of the mortal enemy of all humanity. It is just a matter of who makes the first move.
#2
China and probably India would likely buy into an International Gulf Oil Protectorate. Declare Gulf oil the property of all mankind. Carve off the oil regions bordering the Gulf from SA, Iran and Iraq, plus optionally Kuwait and the UAE. Use the money to pay for running it and the very large surplus could be used for development aid. The usual suspects would scream for a while but the rivers of cash will prove very tempting. It would work a bit like the old panama and suez canal zones.
It will need a severe oil supply disruption to get on the table, but you never know.
#3
Yeah, something has to be done even if less than I advocate. That recent poll of Iraqis as taken by the Telegraph (a pro-American, London daily) which revealed 65% support for attacks on Coalition forces, combined with the Afghan election of the koranimal who supervised destruction of the giant Buddhas, was the last straw. US Congress didn't look good last week, but they will want something for the billions shelled out for what amounts to propping political variants of the Islamofascists who carried out 9-11.
Malcolm X used to say: "The white man is the greatest killer in history." So why fuck with us? We only stopped the slaughter after 1945. If 20 million barbarians pose a mortal threat to me, then I would gladly push the nuke switch on the lot of them. Jihad life is cheap.
#4
Is there a difference between 'islamo-fascists', 'juedo-fascists', 'neo-imperialistico-fascists', just plain 'fascists'? To me 'fascist' means someone who isn't so much interested in making the world a better place, as someone who is only interested in their own(as in their own group's)wellfare, and who thrive on opposition, aggression, war.you guys sound like you'd thrive in any kinda-fascist dictatorship.
Posted by: jez ||
11/21/2005 7:10 Comments ||
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#5
jez, you need to listen more carefully. You might also want to look up the historical actions of the real Fascists, and of their brothers in blood, the National Socialists of Germany.
#6
I like this idea about the international oil protectorate. I'm quite sure that if china and russia could muster enough strength they wouldnt think twice about annexing the whole region. This should warrent serious thought. Nato could easily manage the security, I think.
#10
To me 'fascist' means someone who isn't so much interested in making the world a better place, as someone who is only interested in their own(as in their own group's)wellfare, and who thrive on opposition, aggression, war.
If you dig into the real history of fascism, instead of revisionist pap, you'll find that it bears a striking resemblance to what's called "progressive" today. In fact, the original "progressives" fed a lot of the ideas that animated fascism -- state direction of industry, the state as an object of worship, and eugenics.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/21/2005 9:56 Comments ||
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The moonbats are out today.
House vote and credible news that Zarqawi's dead.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/21/2005 10:11 Comments ||
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Jez: instead of talking about what fascism means to you, try looking up a dictionary.
#13
Convince me it won't degenerate into a genocide and I'll get interested
there are a lot of comments being thrown around that certainly sound as if genocide would be tolerated, maybe embraced. At least that's how I read this from #1 above:
Frankly, it is hard to comprehend the fact that anyone could read Rantburg everyday, yet be disinclined to write-off Muslims. Just think of them as: cockroaches in human form. Billions of Russians, Europeans, Chinese, Indians, South East Asians, etc would love to follow US repression of the mortal enemy of all humanity. It is just a matter of who makes the first move.
Sorry, I can't buy into that and find it detestable.
Posted by: anon on this one ||
11/21/2005 10:19 Comments ||
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#14
Let's knock off all the talk about exterminating people. It's genocide, pure and simple, and we don't stand for that at Rantburg.
CaziFarkUs, you need to read the 'Burg for a while. We're not into mass murder.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/21/2005 11:14 Comments ||
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Jez
I wish Bush and crew really were a little more faciast leaning or at least totalitarian, becuase instead of "how dare you question my patriotism" actually being a defence when open Sedition of a active war effort is being done (a act that is illegal under the constitution and in WW1 and prior thousands were inprisonded for such here in the States when we had leaders with balls, many moon ago). Instead Bush would have declared open season on the LLL anti-americans Moore, most of hollywood, most of the media, half of the Dums and thier insane supporters would be rounded up and deported. This nation would be stronger we would win this war that by historical comparison is amazingly low losses and extremely succesfull even thou our media who claim to be american's have managed to paint it as a total loss. If the US pop cant stomach a 3yr war with just over 2000 military casualties that was started in a attack on our homeland with 3000 civilians deaths we are a Dead and doomed nation. It will be just a matter of time before some other nation who does still have pride will learn this and we will either be learning the Koran and Arabic or Chineese. "Love it or Leave it" it kills me to see immigrants that have more love for our nation than many of those who are natural born. nobodys perfect but we are the best game in town by FAR. I would love to see that changed if you dont support this nation you have no buisness being allowed to live here Deportation to the Nation of their choice should be the Gov policy.
You all heard what happened in Congress last week. Change your stay-the-course-to-insecurity mindset. Congress will adopt a hardline, if it works. Frankly, it is hard to comprehend the fact that anyone could read Rantburg everyday, yet be disinclined to write-off Muslims. Just think of them as: cockroaches in human form. Billions of Russians, Europeans, Chinese, Indians, South East Asians, etc would love to follow US repression of the mortal enemy of all humanity. It is just a matter of who makes the first move.
It's precisely because I read rantburg that I am disinclined to write off the Moslems. In case you haven't noticed, there's a massive civil war going on in the Islamic world, and the side that's fighting us is also blowing up Moslem civilians in Mosul and Annan when it can.
Posted by: Phil ||
11/21/2005 11:20 Comments ||
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#17
Let me guess. Kos is down and LGF isn't taking comments...
Phil's got it -- Zarqawi isn't just trying to kill us, he's trying to kill everyone who disagrees with his very special brand of Islam. That's about 95% of Islam, but only half of them know it right now. We need to edumacate the other half, and support the half that understands that Allan didn't give them all elk-hunting licenses.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/21/2005 14:13 Comments ||
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#19
The problem is not of the specific actions to be taken, but of the general attitude. As long as the view "Majority of Muslims are peace-loving and reasonable; there is just a small minority of extremists that we're have to deal with" persists, we'll keep bleeding.
It's very quaint, even pleasing in a Smallville sort of way, how many nice people there are here. I'd lend you my hedge trimmers any time.
However, in the misnamed WoT, your sentiments are misplaced and dangerously PC.
Some points to keep in mind when wagging your finger:
1) Muslim first, last and always. Where do you think this universal tenet leads? Think about it. This is an open-book test, but your ass is on the line for a correct answer. Hint: the mythical moderate Muslim is just that, mythical. A resource awaiting activation for funding, a safehouse, lackey services, or cannon fodder. Oh damn! I gave away too much of the answer.
2) Any means or method that furthers Islam is acceptable. That includes, but is not limited to, lying and murder. Particularly lying and murder. Ask Nick Berg. Or about 3000 ghosts of 9/11. Or a thousand or so Thais. Or a few thousand Iraqis of the wrong flavor this year alone. Or the 2000 brave souls who've died in Iraq trying to give Islam a chance to reform itself. It's looking a little grim for what we'd call freedom there, except for the Kurds. Bless the Kurds - those guys actually get it. Peace be upon them. Maybe if the Arabs suffered under someone else's boot-heel, such as the Ottomans, for a thousand years or so, they'd get it, too. I rather doubt that sort of staying power is available to the forces of freedom, however.
3) Islam seeks nothing less than world dominion. Yes, they even want East St Louis, Oakland, and Soho. Even Berkeley and Boston. I know. Go figure.
4) Islam is not a religion, but an implacable ideology. It has far more in common with Nazism and communism than with any religion. Those who insist on couching it in religious terms and addressing it as such are soft targets. Very soft, like Charmin. You'll be handled with the left hand.
5) Islam is broadcasting in the clear - read the texts and how they are interpreted by the imams. It mocks your tolerance and soft underbelly of nicey-nice. You'll make good footstools and fan-bearers.
6) Islam is a negative-sum process as it creates nothing, but instead extracts the treasure from the areas and populations it absorbs. Parasitic is the word. Field trip! Everyone gets to go back to ancient times!
7) A Law Enforcement approach is precisely what they hope you'll employ. They can, and regularly do, beat us at our own game. Civility will definitely get you killed. The only jihadi that does not pick up where he left off after either skating through our system's loopholes or serving some joke term is a dead jihadi.
Sum it up.
Then stay the fuck out of the way and keep your Sunday School platitudes. You are an impediment to my survival.
I've never been accused of being overly PC, I admit. My wife and children are more precious to me than the sensitivities of future dhimmis who haven't come to grips with precisely what they are facing, as yet.
I appreciated your comment - especially in the face of such "powerful" 100% Certified PC self-indulgence.
#1
Yeah, and the mafia is cutting heads off of meters to survive.
I don't buy that they have absolutely lost their funding base, although I believe they sell phone cards.
Resource diversification and all, but I'm willing to be they sell a little heroin here and there and fence goods and engage in piracy. They are criminal terrorists and have their hands in the black market no doubt.
This article leads one to believe they're standing on the street corner hawking long distance minutes for jihad.
I'd bet its a bit more sophisticated than that, but hell $600 a day ain't bad for illicit phone card sales.
Thats $200,000 a year and can still be used to support several terror cells for at least a year.
Islamic militants behind a string of deadly bombings in Southeast Asia received private funds from Saudi Arabia up until last year, but are now running short of money, Indonesian security officials said Monday.
Lt. Gen. Makbul Padmanegara, the country's chief detective, said in the past a Saudi Arabian citizen smuggled cash into Indonesia through migrant workers returning from the Middle East.
Police broke the "courier network" last year after arresting an Indonesian man who allegedly received the money for the Southeast Asian terror network Jemaah Islamiyah, he said.
At least some of the funds were intended for bombings in the Philippines, Padmanegara said.
He did not elaborate or say if any of the money was used for a series of suicide attacks in Indonesia, including the 2002 Bali bombings that killed 202 mostly foreign tourists.
Police chief Gen. Sutanto acknowledged Monday that a "network in Saudi Arabia" had been financing Islamic militants, who were now struggling to find other sources of cash.
He said some terrorists in Indonesia were selling prepaid phone cards - earning up to $500 a day - to help cover their operational costs.
Police have said in the past that Jemaah Islamiyah received some of its funds from al-Qaida, as well as from criminal activity within Indonesia, including armed robberies.
Analysts have speculated the group was short of money based on the fact that its most recent attack - the Oct. 1 triple suicide bombings on Bali - used small bombs carried in backpacks. Earlier strikes used larger and more expensive car bombs.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 14:58 ||
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AT LEAST 2 government soldiers were wounded in an ambush Monday by the Abu Sayyaf group in Sulu province in the southern Philippines, officials said.
Officials said the soldiers were on a motorcycle and on their way to the market when gunmen attacked them around 10 a.m. in the village of Dayuan in the town of Maimbung, Sulu.
The wounded soldiers managed to fire back at the attackers, who retreated to the hinterlands, said Major Gamal Hayudini, the Southern Command information chief.
"Troops are now tracking the ambushers, believed to be the group of Sayyaf leader Albader Parad," he said.
The motive of the attack was still unknown, but security forces were battling Abu Sayyaf militants in the towns of Indanan and Panamao on the other side of the island.
Although there have been no reports of major clashes the past three days, troops continue to hunt down about 200 Abu Sayyaf gunmen now scattered in Jolo's mountain areas, where Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) rebels are known to operate.
Fierce fighting between security forces and Abu Sayyaf militants have subsided in many parts of the two towns, Hayudini said.
"There is a relative peace now, but the operation still continues against the Abu Sayyaf and other armed groups that are supporting the terrorists," he said.
The fighting was triggered by an Abu Sayyaf attack on a military post on November 11 in Indanan and the hostilities spread to many villages.
Jolo military chief Brigadier General Alexander Aleo accused the MNLF rebels of coddling Abu Sayyaf members and in many instances fighting alongside with them.
He said MNLF leaders Khaid Ajibun and Haber Malik were aiding the Abu Sayyaf group. But Malik denied the accusation and said troops were attacking their positions in Jolo island.
Aleo said 4 soldiers and dozens of Abu Sayyaf gunmen were killed in the fighting since last week and at least 22 soldiers were also wounded in the clashes.
The military blamed the Abu Sayyaf for the series of bombings and killings in the southern region.
Aleo said security forces were pursuing Abu Sayyaf leaders Albader Parad, Umbra Jumdail Gumbahali and Radulan Sahiron, all included in Washington's and Manila's terror lists.
A military report said Gumbahali was shot on the leg in previous clashes with troops.
Social workers and volunteers continue to help thousands of people displaced by the hostilities.
The Department of Social Welfare and Development (DSWD) in Zamboanga City sent relief aid to Jolo, about 950 kilometers south of Manila, to help feed the refugees now sheltered in abandoned school and government buildings.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 14:57 ||
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Egyptian forces shot dead on Monday a Bedouin leader in the Sinai peninsula who was wanted over his suspected involvement in a string of deadly bombings in the area, the interior ministry said.
Egyptian forces had been hunting Salem Khadr Al Shnub for months over his alleged role in the deadly bombings against the Red Sea resorts of Sharm el Sheikh, Taba and a foreign military base in the Sinai.
âHe was killed in clashes with anti-terrorist units Monday at dawn in a mountainous region of Sinaiâ known as Jabal Halal, a ministry statement said.
âPolice had surrounded the region after receiving information that he was preparing another terrorist operation,â it added.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 15:19 ||
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Pakistani troops missed capturing Osama bin Laden by just 30 minutes, a British newspaper, The News of the World, reported on Sunday. According to the newspaper, the Pakistani embassy in London confirmed the information and quoted it as saying, âWe think we missed him (bin Laden) by 30 minutes. It was the closest we have been since 2001.â
When contacted, Director General ISPR, Maj Gen Shaukat Sultan told Dawn by phone from Islamabad, âIt was not this year but last year.â In reply to a question if President Musharraf had told an American journalist details of the operation, Maj Gen Sultan said, âthe president has not talked to any US journalist recently. However, he did give an interview some time ago and told the journalist about the operation which took place last year.â
Details of the operation were revealed to American TV interviewer Daphne Barak by President Pervez Mushrraf earlier this year, the newspaper said. The newspaper said Osama evaded capture by Pakistani troops by just 30 minutes as they zeroed in on him in a remote village close to the Afghan border sometime earlier in the spring. âData from a mobile phone used by one of bin Ladenâs closest aides helped the Pakistani troops to pinpoint his hideout but by the time the troops could mount a raid, Bin Laden had slipped away,â said the newspaper. âIt was in the spring. We acted on intelligence reports and were close. Such fleeting opportunities come and either you succeed in a moment or you fail and miss the opportunity for a long time,â it quoted President Musharraf as saying in Islamabad.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 15:06 ||
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#1
[Maxwell Smart] Missed him by that much, Chief! [/MS]
Al-Queda according to some international think tanks may be testing their bio-terror expertise on India. For that they may be transferring the know how to Pakistan based terror organizations to attack India.
According to media reports, biological terror attack by Al-Qaeda poses a "clear and present danger", Interpol warned on Monday at the opening of a three-day meeting to prevent bio-terrorism.
"Al-Qaeda's global network...its deadly history, its desire to do the unthinkable and the evidence collected about its bio-terrorist ambitions ominously portend a clear and present danger of the highest order that Al-Qaeda will perpetrate a biological terror attack," said Interpol Secretary General Ron Noble.
"Al-Qaeda has openly claimed the right to kill four million people using biological and chemical weapons," said Noble, adding that "no region in the world is safe from Al-Qaeda."
"Simply put, Al-Qaeda is willing, able and patient enough to plan and prepare to execute terrorists acts that would have been considered unrealistic or fantasy prior to Al-Qaeda's having perpetrated them," said Noble.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/21/2005 14:37 ||
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Four years after 9/11 and the "crazy zeitgeist" that permeated the United States, most Americans have still not learned to know their enemies instead of just hating them, U.S. political journalist Chris Matthews says.
In a speech to political science students at the University of Toronto yesterday, the host of the CNBC current affairs show Hardball had plenty of harsh words for U.S. President George W. Bush, as well as the political climate that has characterized his country for the past few years.
"The period between 9/11 and Iraq was not a good time for America. There wasn't a robust discussion of what we were doing," Matthews said.
"If we stop trying to figure out the other side, we've given up. The person on the other side is not evil -- they just have a different perspective."
He said Bush squandered an opportunity to unite the world against terrorism and instead made decisions that have built up worldwide animosity against his administration.
Posted by: Captain America ||
11/21/2005 13:25 ||
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#1
The Weather Channel gets better ratings than Hardball - he's been peeling of the skins of reasonableness, like an onion, getting down to his bitter Dem soul
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/21/2005 13:29 Comments ||
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#2
Didn't he used to work for the Carter Administration???
#3
Chris Mathews? Well... whatever he did, it worked. I never heard of him before and now I have. Another case of media folks seeking to become the news rather than effectively report it.
Matthews has worked for several Democratic politicians. He was a presidential speechwriter for four years during the administration of Jimmy Carter. He served as a top aide to long-time Speaker of the House of Representatives Tip O'Neill for six years. He worked in the U.S. Senate for five years on the staffs of Senators Frank Moss and Edmund Muskie before running for U. S. House of Representatives from Pennsylvania.
Despite working for Democrats, Matthews has said, "I'm more conservative than people think," and "I've voted Republican many times, (including) for George W. Bush in 2000." - October 3, 2003, Hardball [1]
#6
It seems to be obligatory for all the Ted Kennedy types to say that it's that Rascally George who's finally pushed them over the edge to where they won't be voting republican any more.
("Yes, I worked for the Angela Davis for President campaign in '96, but it was a youthful indiscretion! I was only 49! I still considered myself a faithful conservative republican, until that chimp dubya came along!")
Posted by: Phil ||
11/21/2005 13:56 Comments ||
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#7
"If we stop trying to figure out the other side, we've given up. The person on the other side is not evil -- they just have a different perspective."
Sure thing. And wolverines are just misunderstood cuddly little fluffy animals who would be our bestest friends if only we would snuggle up to them and make nice.
The special high-octane holiday Kool-Aid must have hit the shelves early this year.
most Americans have still not learned to know their enemies instead of just hating them
Then there's people like us folks at Rantburg who have taken the time to know our enemies and hate them.
#9
"We need to better understand the enemy" IS NOT INVALID IF FOLLOWED BY "so that we may better neutralize them." ;-)
[/hyperbole-putting-down]
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
11/21/2005 14:02 Comments ||
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#10
"If we stop trying to figure out the other side, we've given up. The person on the other side is not evil -- they just have a different perspective."
What the hell kind of political sophistry is this Chris? You've got to be kidding. Where in the hell have you been between 911 and Iraq? This is the kind of PC crap we have come to expect from the left-wing liberal moonbats. This is not critical thinking on your part. It is just the LLL MSM party line.
Course, the same day, same town, kids were shooting each other in church, at a funeral. Just a different perspective I guess, nothing to see, move along.
Posted by: john ||
11/21/2005 14:40 Comments ||
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#12
"The person on the other side is not evil -- they just have a different perspective."
Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot...
If Chris Matthews had a brain, he would be ashamed.
#13
Ahhh yess.. Chris Mathews AKA 'The Caveman' after the way he treated Michelle Malkin on his show. He resorted to name calling and wouldn't let her defend herself or even say anything. Asshole extraordinaire. He is one of the reasons I dislike MSNBC.
Didn't Zike Miller verbally bitchslap him during the Republican Convention?
#18
Everytime I hear these LLL panzies talk I remember in school the kids who used to get picked on by the other kids and them just takin one to the face and with a dumb as* look asking why. I remember wondering why thier parents never told them they had to stand up for themselves or at least learning it the hard way. I wasnt a big kid but I took quite a few beat downs in my day although I never was just punked out.
The Radicals point of view is simple, everyone who is not Muslim and Muslim in thier brand of Muslim is a Infedel dog and Infedels are to be killed since they dont count as humans just pigs and dogs. Kinda like Hitler you were either part of the super race or you were lamp shade material. What kind of compromise is possible with that kind of rational.
and Mahou "and chris you are one of them"
yeah I am with you 120% on that one man. These LLL anti-american zipos should be charged with sedition have pernament citizenship revocation then given a choice of destinations for their one way air plane ticket. peace out panzies let em go chll with Chirac and sip wine eat pastry talk sh*t about the americans all the while watching the nitetime glow of pariee burning by the Muslims who are just really misuderstood angry youths. Well at least for this generation cause by the next france will be nearly 40% Muslim and Parris will be Paresian.
#21
We'll i think Chris is a jerk but he has a small point. We don't need to appease them, but I think there is much more that we could learn about the fears and desires of the terrorist.
#22
Chris, is this one of those do as I say not as I do moments? Why don't you try to understand Bush's perspective?
I know the enemy, and you are among them.
Posted by: Gir ||
11/21/2005 17:52 Comments ||
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#23
Thaique Flolump6420, I think I understand them well enough, I think most people on this board understand them well enough. Yeah perhaps I couldnt' do a doctoral thesis on their specific sicknesses but I think I've got it pretty well nailed down.
Abu Grabb's little torture games were absolutely fine tuned to strike the fears of the terrorists, and those were reservists acting on their own. I'm pretty sure the higher ups know all they need to know.
So the question is what value is it to the rest of America to fully understand the mindset of these shits? I'm happy to let FBI profilers get into the head of psychopaths, I don't care what makes KKK members tick. Why should I give two licks over the pathetic worldview of a terrorist.
#24
Why make any effort to understand the islamo-terrorists if we do nothing with the knowledge? I understand they store weapons in Mosques yet we do not flatten the arms depot. They shoot from Mosques but we allow them to stand. Most terrorists are mid-20's and early 30's and from islamic country's but we search 90 year old Americans at the airport.
Learn where they live, find them and eliminate them. Peace is only achieved by elimination or total unconditional surrender.
#25
Such a GWOT military strategist that Mathews. He must have gained all of his expertise while serving in the Peace Corps. He's just another fowl smelling legacy of the Carter administration, preaching his Bush "HATE" to whacko Kanadian communists.
An Indian engineer was kidnapped with two Afghan police guards and a driver in southwestern Afghanistan, government officials said yesterday, as Taleban militants said they had snatched the men. India condemned the incident and called for their early release. Afghan agencies are investigating the matter, according to Indian officials. âWe have seen reports that Taleban have abducted them. If the reports are true, we condemn the incident and urge that all persons be released,â External Affairs Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna said in New Delhi.
The four were captured late Saturday while they were driving on an âunsafe roadâ in volatile Nimroz province, a district chief in neighboring Farah province told AFP. The Interior Ministry said the four were kidnapped in Nimrozâs Poshta-e-Hassan area by unknown men. âA search operation and investigations have been launched by police,â ministry spokesman Yousuf Stanizai told AFP.
A purported spokesman for the Taleban, Qari Yousuf Ahmadi, told AFP members of the group had kidnapped the engineer and three guards in Khash Road district. Purported Taleban spokesmen often say the group has carried out attacks and other incidents in Afghanistan but their claims are not always accurate. Their claim to have kidnapped a British engineer and his Afghan interpreter in Farah province on Aug 31 was however widely believed to be credible. The menâs bodies were found a few days later. The area is a hotbed of anti-government militants, most of them allied to the Taleban, and criminal groups involved in smuggling, mainly of Afghanistanâs large crop of illicit opium.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/21/2005 00:00 ||
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Lords Resistance Army rebels in Uganda killed and ate five people and gnawed wounded four others in an attack on a civilian lorry carrying a dance troupe in the remote north of the country, the military said yesterday.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/21/2005 00:00 ||
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RABAT, Morocco (AP) - Moroccan police have dismantled a terrorist network, arresting 17 people, including two former prisoners at the U.S. base in Guantanamo, Cuba, the official MAP news agency reported Sunday. At least some of the suspects were linked to al-Qaida in Iraq.
Brahim Benchekroun and Mohammed Mazouz - among five Moroccans freed from Guantanamo in August 2004 - were among the suspects. They were arrested Nov. 11 at their homes in connection with a probe into al-Qaida, a Moroccan security official said, among 17 implicated in the network.
Information about the network, dismantled before it was fully structured, remained sketchy, and it was unclear when the other arrests were made. The top two suspects, Khaled Azig and Mohamed Rha, were recruiting extremists for their cause, MAP quoted police as saying. Members of the network had links with small groups on the Iraqi border and close ties to leading members of the al-Qaida terror network, MAP reported. Benchekroun and Mazouz were arrested in Pakistan and Afghanistan in late 2001 and among five Moroccans accused of taking training courses in how to handle firearms and make explosives.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/21/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
among five Moroccans freed from Guantanamo in August 2004
And so we see that those released from Guantanamo are often more dangerous to their host countries than to the U.S. But that is the decision of those in charge of such things over there -- we cannot be responsible for protecting others from the results of their decisions, no matter how much we have a cultural need to act to prevent evil rather than protecting our philosophical purity. (Thanks, Ptah, for the impeccable argument. You clarified the thought for me once again.)
Aside and off topic: 2b, you were unacceptably humble yesterday with regard to your value as a human being versus me, just because my mother did some tale-worthy things. You stop that right now, or I shall become angry with you! I have lived in not-so exotic Germany and Belgium for a grand total of five years, during which time I reared small children and had small dinner parties; the rest of my life has been lived in a nice suburb of snowy Buffalo, and nice suburbs of a-nice-place-to-have-a-family Cincinnati. The things I prate oh so wisely about I either learned about here at Rantburg, from books, or from the stories told around the dinner table by others, including Mr. Wife. My glory truly is reflected, not my own, and I apologize to everyone if I ever implied otherwise.
And if you do not stop this overly humble nonsense I shall cry, which means that .com will have to say "there, there," again, and make me a cup of tea. Which isn't fair, as he is in a ranting mode, after he had been uncharacteristically quiet for so long.
So please allow me to clamber down from what should be the world's smallest pedestal, and rejoin the rest of humanity in your estimation -- my balance isn't as good as it ought to be these days, and I might hurt myself if I fell off. I shan't be in for the next few days, so I shall have to hope you will have agreed to being sensible again. Thank you in advance! ;-)
P.S. If you dare to refer to any part of this statement as gracious, I shall seek you out and stamp on your foot (because I don't think .com would lend me one of his famous hunter/killer teams for this purpose, darn him!). Einverstanden?
#2
I'm sorry, everybody and Fred. It's because it shouldn't be at all about me that I just made it aaalll about meeee. Just pretend it never happened, ok? Thanks!
#5
Those Guantanamo guys keep turning up in questionable circumstances after we release them. And after they promissed not to do that again.
Shame on them.
#7
When we release gitmo detainees, I am sure the host country generally knows who they are and where they are. So I am not surprised if those detainees show up again. Watch and learn. Standard law enforcement procedure.
Posted by: john ||
11/21/2005 9:41 Comments ||
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#8
GTmo detainees should be tagged with a tiny subcutaneous microchip prior to release.
#9
Moroccan police have dismantled a terrorist network, arresting 17 people, including two former prisoners at the U.S. base in Guantanamo, Cuba, the official MAP news agency reported Sunday.
See Mr. Mazen? It CAN be done, and even by a bigger country, to boot.
#11
To expand on that, a GPS receiver is made up of an active radio receiver and a computer.
The constellation of GPS satellites constantly send a stream of messages that are timestamped with atomic clock accuracy. The radio receiver portion of the GPS receiver accepts these messages. Using the info encoded in the messages sent, the computer then calculates the exact distance between it and the satellite at the moment the packet was sent. From that it infers location.
This is done over and over (using an adaptive Kalman filter algorithm, for the techies in the house).
Which is a longwinded way to explain that GPS receivers require a fair amount of circuitry and constant power source. You'd need even more to transmit that location regularly.
The little rice-grain sized microchips used to ID dogs are passive devices (transponders) that xmit a short ID signal when they receive inquiries via very short-range transmitters (scanners). Won't work from farther away, unfortunately.
#13
BTW, that was just a brief summary of the highlights of GPS, to address the proposal that is made from time to time that we microchip detainees w/ GPS tracking devices. You can read a little more, including about different techniques for improving GPS accuracy, here (among other places).
There's a wholly different GPS-based technique for centimeter-or-less accuracy, used in surveying instruments, positioning oil drilling platforms, etc. It ignores the message content from the satellites and uses Doppler analysis ... takes up to a minute to compute location, tho.
#14
Sounds like power consumption is the problem. Perhaps we should just charge up the terrs a little more before they are released. Say 200,000 volts worth.
#15
Inject them with a very slow-acting, untraceable poison and some virulent, highly-congageous disease that takes MONTHS to show itself, then release them all. Watch where the epidemics pop up.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
11/21/2005 13:19 Comments ||
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#16
Thanks for the explanation, lotp.
It wouldn't stop me from planting rumors on certain Arabic web sites, however, that we've solved these problems and that every detainee gets a chip implanted in, um, his prostate.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/21/2005 14:18 Comments ||
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#17
Rfid chips would make it easier to determine if a boomer or a new detainee was the guy we released earlier...
#18
I suppose ... but you'd need to scan them from about 2-6" away from the exact part of the body where the chip was emplanted. And you'd need scanners at every place where you might find someone but didn't want to wait a couple days for DNA results ....
All I can say is that if we do that, I'm pretty sure the female MPs would NOT Roger that suggestion about prostates ... ugh.
#19
"Prostate" is a good lie, but since what seems to be left of a boomer is his head, rethink your placement scenario.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
11/21/2005 18:56 Comments ||
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#20
RFID is fine. It would be fun to tag them with some store sensors too. That way they would always be noticable evertime they go into or out of a store.
#21
Everyone, except the jihadis, knows the implants are deep within the upper intestine of the releasees. The only way to check is to disembowel them. Allanwills it
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/21/2005 22:09 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Is anyone paying attention? Is our national attention span so short that we can't hold a single idea for more than four years? Is our national resolve so non-existent that 
The Saudi Interior Ministry has announced that people arrested in connection with terror acts will undergo therapy. The Director-General of Relations and Guidance at the ministry, Dr Saud bin Saud al-Musaibeeh, told the official Saudi news agency that the orientation programme is aimed at showing "those with deviated ideologies" the danger those ideologies represent to Muslim society and convincing them to renounce those "destructive thoughts".
ONE British soldier was killed and four others injured yesterday in a roadside bomb blast in the southern Iraqi city of Basra. Local police said a vehicle had been destroyed by the blast, which happened at 12.30pm local time. The soldiers were said to have been on routine patrol at the time of the attack. 
Pakistani troops missed capturing Osama bin Laden by just 30 minutes, a British newspaper, The News of the World, reported on Sunday. According to the newspaper, the Pakistani embassy in London confirmed the information and quoted it as saying, âWe think we missed him (bin Laden) by 30 minutes. It was the closest we have been since 2001.â
An Indian engineer was kidnapped with two Afghan police guards and a driver in southwestern Afghanistan, government officials said yesterday, as Taleban militants said they had snatched the men. India condemned the incident and called for their early release. Afghan agencies are investigating the matter, according to Indian officials. âWe have seen reports that Taleban have abducted them. If the reports are true, we condemn the incident and urge that all persons be released,â External Affairs Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna said in New Delhi.
RABAT, Morocco (AP) - Moroccan police have dismantled a terrorist network, arresting 17 people, including two former prisoners at the U.S. base in Guantanamo, Cuba, the official MAP news agency reported Sunday. At least some of the suspects were linked to al-Qaida in Iraq.
