Please use this post for all comments and updates throughout the day. While there are lots of sources available right now, I'm going with the Roanoke Times as they have a continuously updating newsline. I'm posting the last several here, and I'm sure there will be more. Our prayers are with the victims and their families, and we will await justice.
8:33 p.m. (all times EDT)
President Bush's staff has talked to Virginia Tech officials about the possibility of Bush visiting campus this week, Tech President Charles Steger said at a press conference this evening.
Authorities said they are still trying to determine whether the shootings at West Ambler Johnston Hall and Norris Hall are related. They have identified a person of interest in the Ambler Johnston shootings but do not have anyone in custody. That person is cooperating with authorities, they said.
At Norris Hall, 31 people including the shooter were killed. Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said the scene at Norris was probably one of the worst things Ive seen in my life. Authorities have made a preliminary identification of the shooter but dont plan to release his name, or that of any of the victims, until tomorrow. Another two, a woman and a male resident assistant, were killed at Ambler Johnston.
8:03 p.m.
Tech police Chief Wendell Flinchum said that an estimated 15 people have been injured from today's shootings.
7:48 p.m.
Tech police Chief Wendell Flinchum said police had made a preliminary identification of the shooter but were not releasing the identity at a press conference that is currently happening. He also said that two weapons had been recovered but declined to say what they were.
7:06 p.m.
Norris Hall, where 31 of today's 33 victims died and 15 more were injured, is a crime investigation scene tonight. Police block passersby from approaching closer than Burruss Hall, Virginia Tech's main administrative building that sits between Norris and the Drillfield.
A long piece of yellow police tape is tangled in a tree and federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents seemed to be looking through windows of cars parked near Burruss. No vehicles are being allowed onto campus.
A half dozen police trucks are parked near Norris, and officers are coming and going from the building. Very few other people are outside on that side of campus.
At the Inn at Virginia Tech, a university hotel that has served as a staging area for today's press conferences and for students and family members seeking information, guards at the front door are only allowing friends and relatives of victims to enter. Media representatives are being sent to another door. The Inn is trying to keep rooms available for friends and family.
"Hokies United" an ad hoc group that has brought together Virginia Tech's student organizations during past tragedies, is organizing a candlelight vigil tomorrow night on Tech's Drillfield. The event is open to the public and will begin at 7:30 p.m. Students are planning on passing a flame to light 10,000 candles at the event. It will also feature a yet-to-be-named speaker.
Students are building a writing wall so people at the vigil can write messages in support of the victims.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
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#1
It was (mis)reported that the shooter was a 24 year old student from China with a Facebook page that was filled with guns. Geraldo on Fox saw the page and expressed horror at all the guns.
This is apparently false as the student has responded that he is NOT the shooter (who is purportedly dead) on his Web site. See link on Drudge.
#2
Michelle Malkin has information that a 24 year old Chinese student on a visa (my take is that the FBI would not have finger prints, etc., to identify, so may be waiting for overseas identification confirmation) who earlier shot girl friend and school employee and then two hours later shot up the rest of the school, then took own life...
#3
BTW the media was doing the whole 'grim milestone' shtick up to the point where the death toll ticked over to 'the worst mass murder ever'. Then it was all confetti and party hats...
#5
I was just watching MSNBC talking about this. They showed a picture of a gun like that involved in the shooting and of course had to blame it on W by saying it had a clip with more than 11 bullets, and that the Bush administration allowed the law banning these to sunset so they were legal again.
/sarc on
With everyone running away from the gunman as I understand they were I'm sure it would have turned out that fewer people would have been killed if the many clips he was carrying had been of the politically correct variety, because he surely wouldn't have thought of carrying a gun in each hand were that the case.
/sarc off.
#6
Seafarious, rest assured that lamp posts await those "journalists". Maybe not today, but their fate is sealed by this sort of gloating over America's supposed shortcomings.
On a most cynical note, I'll add that America's Muslim population should be breathing a huge sigh of collective relief that this incident does not appear to be a case of Sudden Jihad Syndrome.
Should this be a case of SJS, it must mark a turning point in how domestic policy is arrived at.
#7
Now we know why the authorities are treating the Chinese student with 'kit gloves'!. The same thing occurred when "W" had to correctly apologize for the EP3 jet collision a few years ago. Thread softly on the Chicom's toes!!
#8
I am sickened more by America's reaction to this carnage than the massacre itself. Blame the gun, increase gun control, police should've locked down campus, blah, blah, blah. Common theme: "this should not have been allowed to happen; somebody else should have done something." The campus is a community of roughly 35,000 people; there is an apparant domestic disturbance/killing at dawn; it happens every day in America; we don't shut down every such community while we investigate the possibility it was the precursor to an unprecedented crime; why should this community be different? We have created a nation of victims. To all you people who say you can't understand how six million Jews could have lined up and marched into the showers - look around. One report said kids lined up against a wall before the guy shot them, and didn't resist because, I guess, they figured his finger would get tired or he'd run out of ammo before he got to them. I sympathize with those whose ... no, I'll stop before I make a worse fool of myself.
#9
Had not seen this when I ranted:
"As Jews worldwide honored on Monday the memory of those who were murdered in the Holocaust, a 75-year-old survivor sacrificed his life to save his students in Monday's shooting at Virginia Tech college that left 32 dead and over two dozen wounded."
ONE guy understood how not to join the six million ever again.
#10
Even one sheepdog amongst the sheep would have been enough. Where was our Virginia version of Fabrizio Quattrocchi? What kind of children have we raised that would be complaint and obedient to a butcher?
#11
Foreign national must have obtained firearms illegally. If he were not a foreign national, his fingerprints would be on file when he purchased a legal firearm. It would also seem that a foreign national entering on a visa would have fingerprints on file. Wonder why he went to such lengths to hide his identity. He did not carry any ID. He filed serial number off the firearm according to news.
#12
As far as I know, my fingerprints are not on file, I am not a foreign national, and I have legally purchased firearms. Is that a Virginia-specific regulation?
#14
...rest assured that lamp posts await those "journalists". Maybe not today, but their fate is sealed by this sort of gloating over America's supposed shortcomings.
If only I could believe that. But, as the "Barney the Purple Dinosaur" (BtPD™) crowd matures, I would expect that we'll just have to get along!
BTW, is anyone keeping a list of names of these "journo's"? You know, just in case we have an opportunity to see that they keep that date with the lamp post.
Posted by: Natural Law ||
04/17/2007 8:53 Comments ||
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#15
mrp I believe you are correct. We are still waiting to find out about the Mr. Cho name confirmation. The gun shop owner that claims to have sold the guns also claims to have the chap on video.
I'm willing to bet the FBI right now is cleaning the guys apartment. Hate to get cinical but a 6 foot tall asian man out of 14,000 students can't be that hard to idenify.
#16
What kind of children have we raised that would be complaint and obedient to a butcher?
Children raised on Barney and the Tele Tubbies and other shows of that ilk. Then further indoctrinated in the school systems. CW-II, closer.
Posted by: Natural Law ||
04/17/2007 9:00 Comments ||
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#17
TW the www.black-rifles.com site has been taken down. But just checked, www.roanokefirearms.com is still up. That story looks like it might be loosing steam.
#18
CNN is reporting a VTU president statement that the shooter was a VTU student who was living in a dorm. Steger isn't sure whether a second shooter is involved.
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 9:31 Comments ||
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#20
23 yr old South Korean native
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 9:33 Comments ||
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#21
Looks like the gun shop owner was on the level.
ABC Cho Hui Seung, a resident alien of the United States, a South Korean national and a Virginia Tech senior has been identified as the gunman in the shootings that left 33 people dead on the Virginia Tech campus Monday, ABC News has learned.
Cho's identitiy has been confirmed with a positive fingerprint match on the guns used in the rampage and with immigration materials.
So far no google results for Cho, photos and so on. There is one 18 year old but thought they were saying the scum was 24.
So where did Cho get the skills to shoot 50 people?
#26
What kind of children have we raised that would be complaint and obedient to a butcher?
The kind who go off to be indoctrinated by lunatics who mark the first anniversary of 9/11 by reminding them that "KGB" also stood for "Homeland Security," and cautioning against any more violence and retaliation in Afghanistan.
True story. Told millions of times in millions of classrooms every day. And not just humanities dickweeds -- the above was pronouncement came from a professor of biophysics.
And those are the moderates. At a Christmas party, another biophysics professor turned purple, pointed a finger in my face, and screamed that my husband was killing women and children in Iraq. I was told that he'd had a bit to drink and to just shrug it off.
So let your kids have their "devil music" and play it backwards if they want -- it's the profs who destroy them, intellectually and psychologically.
#31
He must have a certifable paper trail to be accepted as a senior in a second language. He qwould have had to complete some placment and achievment tests. Perhaps the reason information has been slow is LE is waiting to get more background info from Korea.
I remember after 7/7 in London that the info came out a lot slower than previous events and certainly much slower than "Geraldo and the media circus" would like..."Hey, we have to build the supporting graphics and order up somber music to get the Blame game started in time for tonights broadcasts... can't you guys spill the beans right now?"
While I don't think this has a terror componant, I think the new protocals for any questionable event is to slow down. The presser yesterday was a circus, and today they complian because there was no Q & A.
#32
Apologies in advance for an extended rant.
One would think that as the details of this tragic event unfolded there would have been enough sizzle for all the parasitic cue-card readers in the media to keep occupied. Their zeal for an exclusive angle is as predictable as it is odious. Recent comparisons include how the most violent hurricane to hit the US mainland was transformed into a narrative about racial injustice even as the search and rescue operations were still underway. And to a lesser degree, there were charges of a cover-up at the highest levels only a day after the Vice Presidents hunting accident. In this instance, equipped with only rumors and unconfirmed reports, the media mouthpieces were in overdrive speculating on the easy availability of guns or how the average Joe can spot the warning signs of the potential psychopathic killer. Even as bodies lied in an active crime scene, the leaches in the press corps grilled an obviously shaken police chief about his decisions following the initial report of violence. Most, of course, asked their questions with their obvious innuendos of incompetence. And even as bodies lied in an active crime scene the talking head whores had declared ineptitude on the part of local law enforcement. In the end, these charges may become valid. But to make these conjectures even before the next of kin has been notified is contemptible.
#33
Children raised on Barney and the Tele Tubbies and other shows of that ilk. Then further indoctrinated in the school systems.
In defense of that generation, my 2 daughters generation, these "Barney Kids" were also the boys and girls who lined up at dawn outside of Fallugia a couple of Novembers ago...my hope is not lost.
#34
Sent to my congress critters, state and federal.
Dear (spineless politician - insert name here),
If you want me to feel safe on campus, then allow me and those like me who are older students, legally possessing a Tenn. Handgun Carry Permit, to carry on campus. I would not mind if additional training was required to do so, provided it's real training and not simply an attempt to pretend to allow it like was done with airline pilots after 9/11 where getting the
training was so hard and expensive it became impossible. A "Gun-Free Zone" is nothing more than a safe zone for potential terrorists and mass murders who KNOW that the local state and federal government have aided in their crimes by turning citizens into unarmed sheep for the slaughter. The Courts have ruled that Police do not have a duty to protect individual citizens and our state constitution and our nation's constitution have within them the provisions to provide for it's citizen's safety. I refer you to the 2nd Amendment of the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution and Article 1, Section 26 of the Tennessee State Constitution which grant the
citizens the right to bear arms.
Thank you,
(insert my info here)
Not copied from anywhere, written by me. Doubt I'll get more than a form letter in reply, but I'm sure I'll get lots of requests for my $$$.
#35
#26 What kind of children have we raised that would be complaint and obedient to a butcher?
I understand the frustration, but that's an unfair question. No one knows what they would do under those circumstances. A classroom in the States is not the place where most people expect to come under hostile fire.
Israeli professor of Romanian origin Liviu Librescu numbers among those killed in the Virginia Tech University massacre on Monday. According to the International Herald Tribune, Librescu sacrificed his life to save his students. He had blocked the access to the his class so that students can run from the attacker.
Librescu, 77, was teaching at the Virginia Tech University for 20 years.
#38
That story looks like it might be loosing steam.
Thank you for the thoughtful update, Icerigger. Separately, do South Korean boys still do their Army service straight out of high school? Do they all still get Tae Kwan Do and Hapkido training from childhood on? Back when we were in university, Mr. Wife was an honorary member of the Korean Student Union; they all played martial arts together, even though he did Kung Fu. He used always to go with them when they went out drinking, to keep them out of fights. At any rate, if Mr. Cho had been through the Korean Army, he'd have gotten some serious gun training, surely. I've seen some comments here about what tough sons of pups the Korean troops are...
Thank you for the information on Professor Librescu's heroism, mrp. May his memory be a blessing and a solace to his family, his friends, and his students.
#40
TW, you asked the question I was going to ask. If he had been through army service in SKor then it would explain his methodical planning and execution of the attack.
It's interesting to note that the Virginia Tech police chief is not dismissing the possibility of a second gunman:
At an evening news conference, Police Chief Wendell Flinchum refused to dismiss the possibility that a co-conspirator or second shooter was involved. He said police had interviewed a male who was a "person of interest" in the dorm shooting and who knew one of the victims, but he declined to give details.
"I'm not saying there's a gunman on the loose," Flinchum said. Ballistics tests will help explain what happened, he said.
So what would an accomplice have done? Tied down the cops at the dorm while the shooter prepared to shoot up Norris Hall? There's still more to this story.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
04/17/2007 11:07 Comments ||
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#41
Nor are authorities ruling out possible connections between the shootings and the series of bomb threats, which targeted VTU's engineering buildings.
A bomb threat directed at Virginia Tech engineering school department buildings was found Monday at the scene of the mass shooting at Norris Hall, an engineering building, according to a search warrant affidavit filed this morning in Montgomery County Circuit Court.
The affadavit said the suspect in the shootings, who has been named as 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui, was believed to have multiple firearms, including but not limited to Walther P22 and Glock 9mm handguns. The affadavit goes on to say that an investigation has revealed the suspect recently purchased a handgun at a Roanoke firearms store.
"It is further reasonable to believe suspect is the author of the bomb threat note," reads the affadavit written by a Virginia State Police special agent.
The warrant was taken out to search a dorm room at 2121 Harper Hall for tools, documents, computer hardware, weapons, ammunition, explosives, instructional manuals for criminal acts of mass destruction, writing utensils and/or paper similar to that used to communicate threats to Tech's campus in the recent past.
#44
Another thing that chaps my ass. On Fox this morning some wag was bemoaning the fact there are no surveilance cameras there. The fact that surveilance cameras would not have either prevented or stopped this guy is immaterial to them. Try putting up surveilance cameras everywhere and listen to all the outcrying from liberals about the Orwellian Government. Bad people are going to do bad things and no ammount of regulation is going to stop them. We have to be willing to confront evil. Doing things to make people "feel" safe is an excersie in futility as those things don't make people actually safe and we all know it's all about feelings.The monster under the bed doesn't go away just because one turns on a nightlight. The cries of "The police didn't protect these people" and "the School Administration didn't protect these people" are cries of people looking to blame everyone but the shooter. Things like this will happen in a free society. The only way to truly prevent these things is to have a true police state where everyone is subject to police questions and searches at any time and for no apparant reason. Papers must be kept on one's person at all times and checked at the whim of the athoraties. I don't think that's really what the American people want but it may be what they actually get.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
04/17/2007 11:37 Comments ||
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#45
Fox: guy was treated for depression, was thought to be a stalker, railed against rich kids and aberrant behavior in a note he left, that he signed "Ismail X"
WTF???
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 11:51 Comments ||
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The suspected gunman in the Virginia Tech shooting rampage, Cho Seung-Hui, was a troubled 23-year-old senior from South Korea who investigators believe left an invective-filled note in his dorm room, sources say.
The note included a rambling list of grievances and ended with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms. Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, according to an investigative source, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women.
A note believed to have been written by Cho was found in his dorm room that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 11:56 Comments ||
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#47
A note believed to have been written by Cho was found in his dorm room that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.
He sounds like the alphie troll that pops up on Protein Wisdom.
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
04/17/2007 12:06 Comments ||
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#48
I did a few searches of "Ismail Ax" as a proper name, and also as separate nouns.
As far as a specific name is concerned, the only online reference I could find for "Ismail Ax" was here: narcissk-ax
Seems like a good age fit, hip, saw some Arabic language stuff on a site linked from the page.
#51
Suggestion to web admins: 'sinktrap' the comments about killing journalists unless you want Rantburg to have an FBI file. A complaint will be made if this is not done.
#52
So many questions still unanswered. Motive? What warped reasoning was going through Chos jelled mind?
Why so little info on the first two victims where it all started? Love triangle either dumped him for someone else or was playing behind his back? What was the relationship between the three parties? Who was connected to the Engineering department his girlfriend or the second victim? Why did Cho want to take out as many engineering students as he could? Why the broader inclusion in his punishment? Why go after additional people when he had already killed his girlfriend?
Was Cho humiliated? Did he lose face? Did she leave Cho for an engineering student (or was playing around while going out with Cho) and Cho believed that all engineering students knew about the betrayal or that all the students were as evil as the man who lured her away with his debauchery and charming smile? Or was she the engineering student who told all her classmates about poor hapless Cho and how tiny he was for a tall guy?
The bomb scares may well be related I think. Did Cho get fed up that his notes were not taken seriously and upped the ante? Hed a real hate on for engineers. Did he decide over the last two weeks that just frightening students wasnt enough for him? Or did something else happen to the relationship that jumped him from bomb scares to killing? Was it too hard to make a bomb in a campus dorm, so Cho changed his plan from bombing to shooting?
So many questions. So little info on how it all started. Anyone got updates that might help fill some of these gaps?
#54
The InstaWife has an interesting analysis (she's a forensic psychologist when she isn't being a professor's wife).
I've seen reports that the girl killed in the dorm was an 18-year old freshman, who did not know Mr. Cho. Cho moved to the US at age 8 or nine with his parents, who live in a nice townhouse in Centreville, where he graduated from high school. Would a permanent alien still have to go back to Korea to do military service? At any rate, the Washington Times says
"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said of the gunman. Shash said the gunman spent a lot of his free time playing basketball, and wouldn't respond if someone greeted him. He described the family as quiet.
Marshall Main, who lives across the street, said the family had lived in the townhouse for several years.
According to court records, Virginia Tech Police issued a speeding ticket to Cho on April 7 for going 44 mph in a 25 mph zone, and he had a court date set for May 23.
#55
Dunno, gorb. I just went by what Frank linked. If he wrote it on his arm before he carried out his mission, it's likely he'd take the time to spell it out as accurately as possible.
#57
From Silentbrick #34:If you want me to feel safe on campus, then allow me and those like me who are older students, legally possessing a Tenn. Handgun Carry Permit, to carry on campus.
This ironically reminds me of an incident from my youth: when I was in college twenty-some odd years ago in the middle (literally) of Tennessee, a friend was taking a class that an off-duty Nashville cop was also taking. The cop used to openly pack heat to class, but so many students were scared by the sight of the evil gun that the professor made him stop carrying it to class.
As to the people that insinuate more should have been done by the cops, I would ask: what would you recommend given the logistics of a college campus with thousands of students, most of whom have some sort of container to carry books, scattered through scores of buildings and over hundreds of acres? The only things that could have short-circuited this were explicitly forbidden.
As someone on another blog commented, all the laws in the world won't stop this sort of atrocity.
#58
"Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, according to an investigative source, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women."
Once upon a time, we would put away crazy people who did shit like that so they didn't have a chance to do worse. Also, back in those days, there was almost NO gun control.
Now, thanks to our liberal notions of how to treat lunatics, and our liberal notions about gun control, we allow nutcases like Cho to run loose, while indulging in empty feelgood measures like declaring the VTI campus a "gun-free zone".
Seems to me the old ways were better.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 13:22 Comments ||
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#59
I doubt South Korea could force him to return to do military duty. But if he ended up in the country he may well be obligated to perform it.
It seems he bought the gun in March, before the ticket. The ticket increases the likelihood that he had a "I have nothing to lose" attitude. At this point I believe he had probably been planning and rehearsing this for quite a while before he actually did it.
I have in the back of my mind that Islam is built in a way that its radical interpretations prey on those with mental problems more than other religions. These people probably seek validation for their violence-prone thinking there. Any computer forensics regarding his internet habits and blogging and the "Ismail Ax" thing should be verrry interesting I'll bet. If he didn't have a computer they had better move quick to find which ones he used.
#60
Since it seems he was an English major, he might have been familiar with Melville and the novel Moby Dick. Maybe he was trying to identify himself with the character "Ishmael"?
It's a reach, I know, but it might have meant something to the gunman. The mad Captain Ahab, the Great White Whale, something like that maybe?
#61
If he wrote it on his arm before he carried out his mission, it's likely he'd take the time to spell it out as accurately as possible.
Kids today don't know how to spell. I found the narcissk-ax website, but I don't do l33t Fr3n(h, and neither does Babelfish. Note that the fellow identified as "Ismail Ax" (blue shirt, in the middle) in one picture is identified as "smoon" in the photo above it. He doesn't look much like our killer, except for being Asian.
Did she leave Cho for an engineering student...
It's possible the "girlfriend" angle will turn out to be a big nothin' -- maybe he had the hots for the girl, and she turned him down cold. And there were all kinds of classes held in the engineering building (French and German, among others), so I don't know that his attack on the engineering building had anything to do with engineering.
And, much as I enjoy hate adding to the uninformed speculation, I'll point out that in my day, the only English majors we had at my (engineering) school were townies who lived at home, and wives of other students. A tech school is not the first choice of most English majors.
Note that the fellow identified as "Ismail Ax" (blue shirt, in the middle) in one picture is identified as "smoon" in the photo above it. He doesn't look much like our killer, except for being Asian.
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear when I said "nice fit". I did not mean "nice fit" as in "hey, he looks just like Cho!"
I meant that the age group and the "posse" gangsta style would probably attract a disturbed individual like Mr. Cho. While checking out the "favorite sites" linked by the original page, I saw a fascinating graph of the south end of a north-bound lady with the words "Made In Morocco" inked on her heiney. No obvious Korean connection.
Again, there is zero proof to date that Cho ever visted the site. It's just the only one Google kicked up on the name search.
If the words "Ismail Ax" were written on his arm, I'll subscribe to the notion that the words were spelled accurately until proven otherwise.
#63
First reply back from state congress critter (Demoncrat, of course):
Dear Mr. May,
Thank you so much for letting me know your thoughts on this important matter. I strongly support Second Amendment rights and generally agree with the sentiments expressed in your email. The issue of carrying weapons on campus is strongly opposed by the administrations of the various universities and they believe that it would contribute to an increase in gun violence on campus. I have not seen evidence either way and I hate to rule based on either irrational fears by campus administrators or my own strong passion in favor of responsible gunownership.
I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in on this important andtimely topic, and if I can be of any service to you or your family, please do not hesitate to call on me.
#64
Angie, Virginia Tech doubles as the state university of Virginia, so a middle class kid majoring in English would be unremarkable there, even though Tech has a reputation as an engineering school.
It's important to remember that this was one among 25,000 students. Chances are he was mentally damaged goods going into school, didn't get the help he needed because he was just one among many, and finally lost it for whatever reason: jilted/ignored/cheated on by girlfriend, feeling of inadequacy, maybe onset of some mental disorder (how late does schizophrenia manifest?).
Posted by: Jonathan ||
04/17/2007 14:52 Comments ||
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#65
This is a huge WTF!? Right now on CBS they are covering the Tech memorial and for some fucking reason there is an Imam shoving the Quran down the audience's throats.
Since when has Virgina been an Islamic state and who the hell invited this preacher of the pedophile for profit into somber event!?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 14:57 Comments ||
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#67
Maybe it's just me and the crazy way I got my education, but a gun in any of the classrooms I attended wouldn't have even been acknowledged. In fact, I can remember seeing armed kids in uniform in class, given a 2-hour break from their duty schedule to attend class, bringing their M-16s with them to the classroom. In New Mexico, we had a Deputy Sheriff and a town police officer in my English class, and both came in uniform, armed. The University of Maryland has classrooms all over Europe and the Middle East on US military bases, and I KNOW they don't require people to "disarm" before attending classes - or at least, they didn't when I was attending class. The left has demonized weapons constantly for the last 40 years, to the point where people are afraid of them. This is nonsense. A weapon is just a tool. It's possible to go on a killing spree with a chain saw, an axe, or any other kind of tool, just as easily as it is with a weapon. Only idiots who have very little brain are afraid of tools.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/17/2007 15:19 Comments ||
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#68
...Cho believed that all engineering students knew about the betrayal or that all the students were as evil as the man who lured her away with his debauchery and charming smile?
You know what they say about engineers and their seductive ways...
(Head of the engineering department told this joke to his fluid dynamics class: "What's the number one form of birth control among engineers? Their personalities.")
Posted by: Rob Crawford ||
04/17/2007 15:22 Comments ||
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A loner-- and SERIOUSLY strange. Sounds like this guy gave off plenty bad vibes for a long time before yesterday:
Caroyln Rude, the chair of the English Department, said that she had spoken to a professor who taught Mr. Cho and was told that the general impression of him was that he was troubled.
There were signs that he was troubled, she said. And the English Department at one point did intervene.
She said that it related to something he wrote in a creative writing class but did not give details about what was written or what kind of intervention was taken, only that it was some time ago, before she was made chair of the department.
Could that be the play he wrote, subject of the TSG item I posted above?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 15:46 Comments ||
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#72
Interesting take on the Ismail Ax (or Axe?) Angle:
You probably already know this, but in James Fennimore Coopers story The Prairie, the settler Ishmael Bush, who is attempting to escape from civilization, sets out across the prairie with two key tools, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe which can either kill or provide shelter stands for both creation and destruction. Given that the VT killer was an English major, might this be the likely meaning of the words on his arm? Just my two cents. Source: Hot Air reader Ray F.
Seems as plausible as anything I've heard anywhere else.
#73
ONE guy understood how not to join the six million ever again.
Yup, Glenmore, the same question has gone through my mind as well. Once those kids were lined up, they had to know that their tickets were punched. What do you have to lose by throwing yourself on the guy to distract him long enough for others to subdue him? The passengers on Flight 93 knew better.
What kind of children have we raised that would be complaint and obedient to a butcher?
Look at what children have been taught for the last several decades. Such drivel as:
You can never know anything for sure.
There is no right or wrong, only shades of gray.
Logic is determined by circumstances.
There are no absolutes.
Truth is relative.
This is the sort of corrosive garbage that has been drilled into America's youth for some time now. As an example, examine the underlying message of The Smurfs. An entire cast of characters outwardly indistinguishable by such factors as race or ethnicity. More importantly, the central character is typically unable to resolve whatever conflict until the aid of others has been enlisted. While seemingly an innocent message about teamwork, it is also a nasty indictment of individuality. The individual cannot succeed unless they subordinate their own aspirations to that of the group. This is group-think writ large. Much has been done to denigrate individuality, independent thinking and personal creativity in general. The contraints of Politically Correct speech and thought fiercely discourage any such independent-mindedness.
Children raised on the axioms listed above are unable to make rational assessments of the world around them. With their idividuality battered down and stunted at every turn, their true sense of self-worth the kind that is earned rapidly deteriorates. Please do not confuse this with the "self-esteem" drivel being spewed in classrooms today. That pap merely instills a sense of entitlement without actual merit. As one wag observed:
Never has there been a generation so full of self esteem, or for so little reason.
What can be expected from a society where attempts are made to eliminate scholastic grading? Regardless of achievement, all children are magically equal. What better way to quell any sense of ambition, any dreams? Can anybody really hope that these philosophical zombies would rise up against their own murderers when all their training has been to make them into sacrificial lambs?
A note believed to have been written by Cho was found in his dorm room that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.
Good catch, Frank G. Does anyone else get a whiff of Sun Myung Moon out of this? "Ismail Ax" certainly carries biblical connotations. Plus, the sort of mind control needed to blank out all morality and compassion as this killer certainly needed to is a hallmark of the Moon organization.
Thank you David D. for the link to Cho's writings.
"You commited a conspiracy. Just like the what the government has done to John Lennon and Marylin Monroe."
Polite society used to call this "an active imagination". I wonder what other conspiracy theories this killer subscribed to. His computer files should prove quite enlightening.
Finally, a moment of tribute to Derek O'Dell and, especially, Liviu Librescu who gave his life trying to save those of his students. Both are heroes in a time sorely lacking of them.
#74
I do believe it was the play you found, Dave. I read the first two pages: the characters are one-dimensional and unsympathetic, the dialog does not set up or advance the putative plot -- in fact the lines of each of the characters do not respond to those of the previous speaker, Mr. Cho clearly belonged to the "shout and cuss" school of play writing, in which idiom he was nonetheless clearly uncomfortable. Based on the first two pages, it seems to me the man was completely incapable of writing creatively. I would have graded the script an F, especially at the senior level. If his teacher did, and it was a required course without which he couldn't get his degree, perhaps that was what set him off. His parents apparently own a dry cleaning shop, and he has a sister at Princeton. Lots of pressure to make good, on someone already fragile... and possibly about to fail.
#76
According to the anti-gun nuts, since a handgun was used by an individual, the handgun is at fault. Therefore all guns should be banned. By the same logic I purpose banning all Koreans since there was a Korean actuator attached to the trigger of the handgun at the time.
#78
"Where did he keep this stuff for over a month?"
I was wondering about that, too. That was a rather large kit of stuff he had. Also, where did he work when he was filing the serial numbers off the two pistols? Gun steel isn't soft, and that would have taken a LOT of work and probably would have made a lot of noise, too.
Did he have a hideaway somewhere?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 17:07 Comments ||
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#79
Possibly he filed in his parents' basement, and stored the stuff in the trunk of his car -- if he had a car.
#80
IIRC the glock doesn't have a serial number stamped onto the frame (because the frame is polymer/plastic)
Instead, there is a metal badge that is attached to the frame forward of the trigger guard. If my memory is correct, I think you can remove the serial number with some strong wire cutters and cut away the plastic that it is attached to.
Also, where did he work when he was filing the serial numbers off the two pistols? Gun steel isn't soft, and that would have taken a LOT of work and probably would have made a lot of noise, too.
Yes, indeed, but can we be sure that Cho did the filing? Why would he want to file off the serial number off a firearm he purchased legally? Removing a serial number from a firearm is a felony, IIRC. Plus, he had the Glock's purchase receipt in his pocket, according to reports. That doesn't add up. Then we can't be sure where the second firearm came from. If it was purchased legally, an FFL dealer should have the info.
All accounts seem to indicate that Cho was cool and methodical with his execution. That kind of firearms handling, especially the magazine loading, and the multiple shots per victim, doesn't come naturally. It takes practice, and possibly training. How much practice could he have done within a month if the firearms and the ammo were off premises?
Simply purchasing two handguns does not give a shooter the confidence to perform a mass slaying. This whole episode was carefully planned.
1) He had at least one draft of a bomb threat, and it's likely he was involved with the previous threats.
2) The exit doors were chained from the inside
3) Victims were shot methodically.
4) He had the magazines, the tactical vest
5) He knew where the people were.
For me, it is near impossible to believe that anyone who obsessed about such a crime would use brand-new firearms without first making sure they were in top working order. And there's only one way to do that.
#85
"Why would he want to file off the serial number off a firearm he purchased legally? Removing a serial number from a firearm is a felony, IIRC. Plus, he had the Glock's purchase receipt in his pocket, according to reports. That doesn't add up."
Yeah, but: you're trying to impose "normal people" logic on someone who's obviously crazier'n a shithouse rat. Who knows what crazy loony logic his mind was following?
And yeah, removing the serial #'s from a firearm is a felony-- but so is murdering 33 people.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 17:37 Comments ||
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#86
Bottom line is, with all the prep this perp did before the massacre, I'm puzzled why no one got suspicious.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 17:40 Comments ||
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#87
Dave:
Yeah, but: you're trying to impose "normal people" logic on someone who's obviously crazier'n a shithouse rat. Who knows what crazy loony logic his mind was following?
And yeah, removing the serial #'s from a firearm is a felony-- but so is murdering 33 people.
But smart enough not to get caught with that stuff until he was ready to go. Besides, if he was ready to check-out after gunning down dozens of innocent people, why bother removing the serial numbers? Cho was probably cool enough to watch and evaluate LE response to 2 or 3 bomb threats and to chain exit doors.
When did he chain the doors? If he did so before the second attack, did anyone report to maintenance that the doors were obstructed?
#88
When did he chain the doors? If he did so before the second attack, did anyone report to maintenance that the doors were obstructed?
If most reports are to be believed, the second attack started at 9:15: classes start at 9:00. He was probably chaining the doors from just after 9:00, with everyone settling into class, until 9:15.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 17:59 Comments ||
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#90
I'm really curious about how he managed to chain the doors. I guess he probably didn't need a whole lot of chain to do so, but I'm trying to picture this guy hauling chains, locks, guns, and ammo. Or were the chains already there but had enough slack left that one could loop an end around and lock the doors provided one brought a lock?
And how many doors did the shooter lock in this manner? Or was this just one particular stairwell exit that was normally kept locked despite the danger?
I'm also curious about the poor girl he shot in the first encounter. She was a 19YO freshman, while he was a 23YO senior. I wonder if he was just infatuated with her looks, because nothing I've read indicates he would talk to anyone, much less a pretty girl.
Posted by: Dar ||
04/17/2007 18:30 Comments ||
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#91
"I wonder if he was just infatuated with her looks, because nothing I've read indicates he would talk to anyone, much less a pretty girl."
I recall a Peanuts cartoon from eons ago; one of the characters, Charlie Brown I think, is telling about an infatuation (I'm paraphrasing from memory, here): "I saw the most beautiful girl today. I just HAD to speak to her. I tried and tried to work up the courage to go over to her and strike up a conversation. But I couldn't. So I punched her."
Frustration leading to shame leading to anger. Funny in that context of long ago, sort of; but not in this one.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 18:39 Comments ||
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#92
More questions:
1) Was the girl killed in the dorm (freshman?) seeing an engineering student? Cho seems to have had it in for engineers for a while (bomb threats?, chain purchase) and as an English major (and still ungraduated at age 23) Cho was about as far from Engineering as one can get.
2) Cho was about two years behind his HS class - what was he doing? Changing majors? Transferring schools? Giving the army a try (US or SK)? Being treated in a psychiatric institute?
3) How the heck did he get so proficient with those guns? Even at close range it has to take a lot of practice to get better than a 50% kill ratio with guns with a calibre starting with less than .4.
4) How can we prevent psychos from getting guns - they clearly should not have them - without also preventing everyone else from (legally) getting guns?
5) What's with the 'Ismail Ax' reference? Some kind of 'gamer' reference?
I knew a guy in college who tried to castrate himself because some girl did not return his attentions. Wierd, but sure preferable to this.
Not enough (if any) Todd Beamer types at VPI - er, VT, these days. Of course, that's true of the whole country as well.
#93
"4) How can we prevent psychos from getting guns - they clearly should not have them - without also preventing everyone else from (legally) getting guns?"
Put the psychos away like we used to do, instead of letting them wander loose to menace the rest of us. ISTR some major "rights" legislation, maybe back in the early 70's (?), that let them all loose and severely restricted involuntary committments. Mental institutions emptied out overnight.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 18:49 Comments ||
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#94
My guess about the chains is that he chained the main double doors shut from the inside, using a short length of chain to tie the handles of the two doors together from the inside. There's no way he chained every door in the building shut: it's a 70,000 square foot building with multiple underground connections to adjacent buildings. My guess is (if this was as meticulously planned as it's starting to appear) the chains were to keep the swat teams out, not the students in.
#95
5) What's with the 'Ismail Ax' reference? Some kind of 'gamer' reference?
I don't think so. If it were gamer-oriented, there'd be 10,000 Google entries for it.
I linked the only Googled online reference to "Ismail Ax" (above).
Whoever (or whatever) "Ismail Ax" is, it was worth Cho's time to not only sign the name to his last work written on earth, but also to write it on his flesh before he shot and killed dozens of people.
And before he shot himself.
My opinion, FWIW, and with hardly a clue, is that "Ismail Ax" is a living, breathing person.
#96
This from commenter januarius on April 17, 2007 at 12:55 PM
This guy was an English major. In James Fennimore Coopers story The Prairie, Ishmael Bush is a settler trying to free himself from the confines of civilization.
He sets out with two key items, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe which can either kill or create shelter stand for both creation and destruction. Might this be the meaning of the words on his arm?
Could be. Im reading The Prairie right now. However, the Leatherstocking Tales (The Deerslayer, The Pioneers, etc.)have been really forgotten by most English departments. Most English majors arent exposed to this literature these days. Anyway the name is spelled differently. It is Ishmael Bush in the Prairie, not Ismail. But interesting theory.
#98
Dave re #93: it wasn't 'rights' but cold, hard cash that emptied the mental institutions. States looked at their spiraling costs for inpatient mental health facilities and wanted an alternative. Not-so-coincidentially, there was a movement in psychiatry that said that most inpatients could be kept instead at homes and halfway houses and then treated as outpatients.
So states promised to do that -- they succeeded in closing most inpatient facilities, but somehow the money required for good outpatient treatment just never materialized.
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/17/2007 21:16 Comments ||
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#99
Some consolation that the VT gun free zone wasn't a nuclear free zone....
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two Secret Service officers were injured on Tuesday after a gun held by another Secret Service officer accidentally fired inside the White House gate, according to a spokesman, Darrin Blackford.
Their injuries are non-life threatening, the spokesman said. One officer suffered a shrapnel wound to the face, and the other was wounded in the leg. They were taken to George Washington Hospital.
At the time, President George W. Bush was on a trip to Blacksburg, Virginia, to attend a ceremony at Virginia Tech university following Monday's shooting rampage.
"It appears that at approximately 2:10 p.m. (1810 GMT) there was an accidental discharge of a service issued weapon, which occurred inside the Southwest Gate at a security post near the White House," Blackford said.
Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House, Lafayette Park across the street from the White House and other nearby walkways were all shut down to pedestrian traffic due to the incident. Many police vehicles were in the area.
#6
There are two secret service guys that are back in uniform or out of a job, one or the other. Either way, their careers are at a dead end. You do NOT play around with weapons while on duty. I've seen several MPs, SPs, etc., reduced to E-1 for such nonsense.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
04/17/2007 20:04 Comments ||
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BULAWAYO, Zimbabwe -- At a meeting held in a Catholic church here Saturday, dissident and Christian leaders from Zimbabwe and around Africa called for the removal of Robert Mugabe, Zimbabwe's 83-year-old president, and urged the country's people to unite and fight for their rights. The prayer meeting was organized by the Save Zimbabwe Campaign, a coalition of churches, students, labor groups and opposition political parties that is fighting for democracy in Zimbabwe.
In his speech at meeting at St. Patrick's Hall in Makokoba suburb, Rev. Morris Nduri, the secretary general ofMalawiŽs Presbyterian Church, was among those who said Zimbabweans should remove Mugabe'sgovernment from power. "This country used to be the bread basket of Africa but thanks to the vile leadership of Mugabe, it is now an empty basket case," said Nduri. "The people of Zimbabwe should stand up against this dictator and throw away their fear. We are all going to die one day and fearingdeath will not make you prosper as Zimbabweans because your suffering will continue."
On March 11, opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai and dozens of other members of his Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) had sustained serious injuries after being arrested by police at an aborted prayer rally in the capital Harare. Saturday's prayer meeting, which was attended by more than 1,000 people, including opposition politicians , civic leaders and clergymen from Malawi and South Africa, went ahead without any incident despite earlier fears that police would disrupt proceedings.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
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The prayer meeting was organized by the Save Zimbabwe Campaign, a coalition of churches (snip)
Rev. Morris Nduri, the secretary general ofMalawi´s Presbyterian Church, (snip)
Seems pretty clear Bob's afraid of Churchmen.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
04/17/2007 19:15 Comments ||
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#3
As a Catholic, I'd ask that you keep that in mind when you hear that it's all pedophile priests and such. Yes, that happened, and it's inexcusable. It's not the whole story, and like admirable clergy of many other Christian sects, these people are literally risking their lives for what they believe in, and for the people. Just a thought...
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 19:32 Comments ||
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The Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and the joint forces yesterday raided the residence of Khulna Awami League (AL) General Secretary Mostafa Rashidi Shuja. However, they could not enter the house having waited for one and a half hours, as it was under lock and key, sources said. The ACC later asked the AL leader's wife to show her husband's wealth statement, submitted to the High Court earlier, tomorrow.
Aftab Ahmed, caretaker of Shuja's property, took the ACC and the joint forces personnel to other buildings, shrimp enclosures and land properties of the AL leader, who has been absconding since his name was included in the ACC list of 50 corrupt suspects. The ACC and the joint forces members gathered information about Shuja's wealth during the raid, which was led by ACC Deputy Director Moniruzzaman Khan.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
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The government won't give police protection to any more persons as country's law and order situation is improving following the anticrime drives. The decision was taken yesterday at a meeting of the advisory committee on law and order with Law Adviser Mainul Hosein in the chair. Home Secretary Mohammad Abdul Karim told journalists that the advisory committee took the decision after reviewing the overall law and order situation.
"Five to seven people, including politicians, have applied to the home ministry for police protection," he said at a press briefing. The meeting, held at the ministry of law, discussed an option for issuing limited arms licence to government officials. The home secretary said acts of militancy are visible in some parts of the country and the law enforcement agencies are taking "proper steps".
The committee took note of labour unrest in garment factories at Mirpur in the capital and in Narayanganj and Chittagong and requested the commerce ministry to resolve the problems through discussion with the BGMEA and BKMEA. Taking a further measure, the committee decided to send notice with timeframe for demolishing illegal structures in Mirpur area and the slums around Suhrawardy Hospital. In the meeting, it was decided that a 500-bed government hospital would be set up at Mirpur after demolishing the illegal structures on the land of Bangladesh Shilpa Rin Sangstha.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
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After a prolonged suspense, former prime minister and BNP Chairperson Khaleda Zia finally agreed to leave the country under tremendous pressure from the military backed caretaker government and on condition that her sons will also be allowed to join her. "Her younger son Arafat Rahman will be going with her and the elder son Trique Rahman will join them later on," a highly placed source in the government told The Daily Star last night on condition of anonymity. "She will be leaving the country for Saudi Arabia in a couple of days. Initially she will be leaving with a one-month visa to perform umrah and her permanent residence there will be finalised upon reaching the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia," the source said. "Everything has been finalised...now only the formalities including getting a visa remain to be completed, which might be completed in a day," the source added.
Replying to a question, he said Arafat Rahman was not shown arrested officially because a process was on to persuade Khaleda to leave the country. "She was determined not to leave the country, but finally agreed when her family members including her younger brother Major (retd) Syeed Iskandar persuaded her to agree to leave yesterday evening."
The decision to produce Arafat Rahman before a court last evening was dropped after Khaleda Zia had agreed to leave the country. Arafat was picked up by the joint forces late night on Sunday. It was learnt that Arafat was taken to his mother's Moinul Hossain Road residence in Dhaka Cantonment immediately after Khaleda agreed to leave the country last evening. Later at night he was reportedly released. He was taken away by the joint forces from the same house on Sunday.
Khaleda, however, bargained for Trique Rahman's release and asked the authorities concerned to allow him to go with her, but the authorities told her that he might be sent to Saudi Arabia very soon for 'treatment'.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
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Authorities in Bangladesh have arrested a second son of former prime minister Khaleda Zia, officials said Monday, as the a military-backed interim government stepped up its anti-corruption drive.
Military-led security forces arrested Zias younger son Arafat Rahman Coco in the capital Dhaka on Sunday evening, a senior police officer said, speaking on condition of anonymity. The arrest came just a month after Zias influential eldest son, Tareque Rahman was arrested on charges of extortion.
While Tareque had been groomed as his mothers political successor, Arafat has maintained a low profile. He owns several companies and ferries that carry goods and passengers on the delta nations river network and was a patron of the countrys cricket board.
The military-backed government has so far arrested more than 50 top politicians since launching its anti-graft drive in February. The new government vowed to clean up politics and carry out sweeping reforms before announcing a new date for elections. Last week the head of the government pledged that the polls would be held before the end of 2008.
Zia, who was prime minister until her five-year term ended in October, has been under virtual house arrest since last week. A source close to the former premier Monday accused the government of trying to blackmail Zia into self-imposed exile abroad.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
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With a view to Monday's deadly shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, European newspapers are blaming the lack of gun control measures in the United States and implying that Charlton Heston is indirectly responsible for the scope of the killings.
AP: In America, "buying a machine gun is often easier than getting a driver's license." Do 'Journalists' even know HOW to do research?
Across the continent on Tuesday, European media rubber-neck at Monday's massacre in the United States. Most seem to agree about one thing: The shooting at Virginia Tech is the result of America's woeful lack of serious gun control laws. In the strongest editorialized image of the day, German cable news broadcaster NTV flashed an image of the former head of the National Rifle Association, the US gun lobby: In other words, blame rifle-wielding Charlton Heston for the 33 dead.
Papers reserve their sharpest criticism for the 2004 expiration of a 10-year ban on semi-automatic weapons under the then Republican-controlled Congress. Others comment on the pro-gun lobbying activities of Heston's NRA. Some papers also draw analogies between school shootings and Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers. Rest at link: Be sure to put all beverages aside and have the punching bag handy to avoid pesky computer damage.
#2
In America, "buying a machine gun is often easier than getting a driver's license."
Somebody doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and should STFU.
But, of course, that's AP's style and about what I'd expect out of the Euroweanies. See all the good banning handguns has done in Britain? The criminals seem to have no problems obtaining guns and are often more heavily armed than the police.
As an American, I like our "gun culture". It has tended to keep the rest of the world at bay for over 200 years so far.
#5
When I was a child a half-century ago, we had practically NO gun control. IIRC, anyone 18 years of age or older could walk into any store that sold guns, and walk out with one not five minutes later. No background checks. No registration. No permits. No restrictions on what kind of gun you could buy. I also don't recall ANY of these massacres happening, not until that Whitman nut climbed that U of Texas clocktower back in 1966.
Now we have background checks, waiting periods, registration, severe restrictions on what kinds of guns we can buy (Note to AP: "machine guns" are NOT among them), and strict rules on where and when guns may be carried, and by whom. And we also now have massacres like yesterday's.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 15:11 Comments ||
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#6
When I was a child a half-century ago, we had practically NO gun control
My thoughts, exactly; autofire weapons were leagal to buy in the USA until 1934 IIRC, and gun ownership was higher in the past than it is in present day USA. BUT, apart from maybe one incident (not sure, wasn't it a famous spree killing in thre South with a shooter holed up in a tower???), there was no such massacre, as far as I know, especially in schools or campus. When did that start? Littleton was in 1999, there was an handful before I think. If something went terribly wrong in the meantime, it's not "guns", it's society and people, and I suspect it's due to the actions of the very same persons who are blaming it on "guns".
#7
That "shooter holed up in a tower" was indeed the Charles Whitman I referred to in my comment above. I don't remember any others from the early 1950's through the 60's.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 15:38 Comments ||
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#8
May I say to the European press, with love and respect, FUCK YOU.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
04/17/2007 15:46 Comments ||
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#9
More people die in swimming pools or auto accidents than are killed with guns each year yet we don't consider outlawing pools and cars.
Perspective gets thrown out the window because gun control is a 'cause' that much of the media believes.
I could be wrong but I think if you look at the stats of Australia and the UK since they banned all guns I think the violent crime rate has risen. Suicides stayed the same, only different weapons are used. So the big difference is the ability of people to defend themselves has been removed. Not a recipe for lowering the crime rate.
#11
The only way a gun ban could actually have any beneficial effect would be if they banned ALL guns, and then did one HELLUVA lot better job preventing guns from being brought into the country by criminals than they've been able to stop the flow of drugs.
Anything short of that, and all you're doing is prohibiting law-abiding citizens from using lethal force to protect themselves, their families, and their property.
And THAT, regardless of any statistical effect of the ban on overall firearm casualties, is just plain evil.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 17:33 Comments ||
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#12
Who? You mean the Euro press who are telling their own people to quietly get in the Islamic boxcars, don't resist, submit cause its all America's fault?
#13
If they banned all guns. If they used some genie wish and got rid of them all except those owned by the cops, the thugs with bats and machettes would take over and do what they wanted against the weaker common folk.
It'd be medieval.
God made all men, it took Sam Colt to make them equal. I think that saying is more profound than most people think. An 80 pound woman can hold off a 250 pound rapist if she has a gun.
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 18:33 Comments ||
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#19
Every HS in our division in SE PA had a rifle team in the early 70's. Kids, with rifles, in the basement, shooting after school.
Upside, it was were you learned safe firearms handling, protocols and how to hit the X's.
You had to be DAMN good to make the competition roster. Thsi isn't something Grandpa used to do, I did it for cripes sake.
Somehow I can't even project it to todays afterschool pursuits.
#20
Yup. I remember the brouhaha when our school district decided to prohibit the rifle team kids from bringing their rifles to school on the buses.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 18:54 Comments ||
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#21
In a couple of years the Euros may be wishing they had some spare guns laying around...
Bingo, tu3031.
I liken guns and gun ownership to stickshift cars. While most people rely upon automatic vehicles, just like they rely upon law enforcement for daily intervention, you'd damn well better know how to drive a stickshift vehicle or, for that matter, shoot a gun yourself.
Idiots who cannot drive a stickshift car may well find themselves in a position where escape from life-threatening danger becomes impossible because of that inability. Similarly, not knowing how to use a gun can also pose a threat if, by chance, you disarm someone with a gun and don't even know how to take the safety off, rack a round or aim the damn thing.
I am amazed by people who cheerfully admit without a trace of embarassment to not knowing how to drive a stickshift. I dread to think of how many people don't know how to safely operate a firearm. For the record, I've fired everything from .22 rifles and Ruger Vaqueros to a 50 caliber BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle).
Anecdote: Back in the 1980s, I purchased a Crossman 1377C air pistol. With a nifty 600 FPS (Feet per Second) worth of exit velocity, this little beauty could really spit 'em out. Loading it with lathe-turned Beeman Silver Jets let me break Champagne bottles while plinking. I added the optional scope for even more fun and really got some mileage out of the sucker. It outshot far more expensive air pistols.
Now for the funny part. My mother, brother and his ditzy girlfriend were visiting my home and I brought out the Crossman to show them. They all became truly apprehensive and when I ventured to demonstrate its firepower by driving a pellet into a telephone book at close range, the ditzy girlfriend almost wet herself in fright.
If this is how even a small portion of Americans regard firearms then, just like those people who cannot drive stickshifts, they are a danger to themselves. Sadly, due to their voting rights, they become a danger to others as well.
#22
Anecdote back atcha, Zenster. I learned to drive in my mother's Volkswagen Bug... a standard, of course. I didn't actually learn to drive an automatic till I was 25 and driving rentals on business trips, wasn't really safe without that third pedal and a stick to wiggle at stoplights until I inherited Mr. Wife's bright red pickup truck. In those years before I mastered driving without actually changing the gears, I could not have driven Mr. Wife to the hospital in an emergency in an automatic. But then, until the pickup truck all our vehicles were standards, so what use was that arcane knowledge to me? ;-)
#23
Zenster that brings back memories, my very first car was stick, had to drive it home from the car lot never drove a stick before. I got it home and had to replace the clutch, but I learned how to drive a stick. :) ahhh the good ole days.
Rep. Dennis Kookiness Kucinich (D-PlutoOhio), the most goofy (and that's saying something) liberal of the Democratic presidential candidates in the primary field, declared in a letter sent to his Democratic House colleagues this morning that he plans to file articles of impeachment against Vice President Dick Cheney. Kucinich has made losing ending the war in Iraq the central theme of his campaign. He has even taken aim at the leading Democratic presidential candidates in the field for their votes on authorizing the war.
Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution gives Congress the authority to impeach the president, vice president and "all civil Officers of the United States" for "treason, bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Sources tell the Sleuth that in light of the mass killings at Virginia Tech Monday, Kucinich's impeachment plans have been put on hold. There will be no action this week, they say. I have to question the timing of this.
Kucinich's office had no comment on the Congressman's "Dear Colleague" letter — which apparently was drafted over the weekend, before the school massacre — or on what the focus of articles of impeachment against Cheney would be. But Kucinich shouldn't hold his breath on getting anywhere with his impeachment plan. "We'll see a Kucinich Administration before we'll see a Cheney impeachment," quipped one Democratic aide.
Here is the text of his letter:
April 17, 2007
Dear Colleague:
This week I intend to introduce Articles of Impeachment with respect to the conduct of Vice President Cheney. Please have your staff contact my office . . . if you would like to receive a confidential copy of the document prior to its introduction in the House.
complete with the link to his "hair obsession" video...heh
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 09:25 ||
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#1
There are two Americas: one in which people pay $400 for high-end haircuts, and another where the people have too much common sense to pay $400 for something you could get for $19.95 at BoRics.
Posted by: Mike ||
04/17/2007 10:10 Comments ||
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#2
I think it is time to stick a fork in this turkey - oh yeah, he's done.
Dead man walking.
But - the more of these losers who keep hanging on, the better the chance that they will cripple one another as they backstab and browbeat one another.
#3
Hey, if he can afford a $400 haircut, more power to him.
But knock off that "Two America's" bullshit, like your one of the good old boys, because we don't have $400 haircuts in mine...
#4
Hmm I pay $12 once a month to have the Barber buzz off my hair. I remember back in Song Tong Si you could get a "Full" haircut for $20 in the late 1980s. What did the Breck girl get for the $400 haircut?
#5
Wow. I guess I'm either blind or I wasn't paying attention.
I don't think I want anybody in the WH or Congress who is so disconnected that they think a $400 haircut is OK.
I think people in these positions should be paid a lot less. And monitored so that they and their friends don't "benefit" any more than anyone else from being in their positions. The whole thing has just gotten so out of hand from what our founding fathers envisioned.
#7
Mr. Edwards lives in a circle where appearance is critical. No doubt Mrs. Edwards spends similar amounts on her haircuts, then again on getting the colour touched up, again to have her legs waxed every other week, again for a weekly manicure and pedicure... Remember when President Clinton had Air Force One held over before take-off for a few hours until his hairdresser popped in from wherever to give his hair a quick trim? I seem to recall that trim cost thousands. I don't even want to think about what Mrs Heinz-Kerry spends to make her pet Senator look so pretty. The Democratic presidential candidates seem to think that having better hair is a selling point for voters, so of course they spend a lot on that -- it's an investment, dontchaknow.
#11
Let's be fair for a moment: lots of Republican office-holders get a weekly trim, and I bet that their favorite barber Luigi does it on-site. Dubya doesn't ever seem to have a hair out of place, and that costs money.
Oh hell: let's not be fair. 400 friggin' dollars for a haircut? Why that would illuminate the Gore Palace for at least five minutes!
Posted by: Steve White ||
04/17/2007 18:34 Comments ||
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#12
Used to be when only women payed that amount for their hair - men only paid $5-10.00, now $12.00, for regular to crewcuts, or light trimes wid shave and shoulder massage.
Sen. John McCain says the shooting rampage at Virginia Tech does not change his view that the Constitution guarantees everyone the right to carry a weapon. "We have to look at what happened here, but it doesn't change my views on the Second Amendment, except to make sure that these kinds of weapons don't fall into the hands of bad people," McCain said Monday in response to a question.
The Arizona Republican, who was campaigning in this Texas-Mexico border city, said he didn't know the details of the attacks at Virginia Tech. "I do believe in the constitutional right that everyone has, in the Second Amendment to the Constitution, to carry a weapon," he said. "Obviously we have to keep guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens."
McCain and other presidential hopefuls issued statements expressing shock and grief over the attacks. "As a parent, I am filled with sorrow for the mothers and fathers and loved ones struggling with the sudden, unbearable news of a lost son or daughter, friend or family member," read a statement by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 08:30 ||
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#2
The truth is that one, just one, armed citizen could have planted this gunman before he had a chance to kill 32 innocent people and wound or otherwise cause to be injured 15+ more.
#3
So, mccain is for gun rights, but against first amendment rights vis a vis politics. And if he gets elected, the second amendment will go right under the bus with the first. You bet on it!
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
04/17/2007 12:11 Comments ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 08:28 ||
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#1
Frankly, I'm fed up with politicians in Washington lecturing the rest of us about family values. Our families have values. But our government doesnt.
BILL CLINTON, speech at Democratic National Convention, July 16, 1992
---
Yep, values such as getting into bed with delightful family men like Hugh Hefner.
#2
...Big deal. Probably less than his V**gra budget for the month.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
04/17/2007 9:05 Comments ||
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#3
It's probably less than he spend on one night on the town with his girls. Something like tipping the bag boy at the market. The combined IQ of his 'girls' is probably less than that of Hillary, but at least they don't come across as power hungry self-righteous "I'm here to save you" types. It's the difference between fun Cocker Spaniels and a Pit Bull breed to kill for sport.
Sen. John Kerry (D-Massachusetts) reopened the door to a possible 2008 presidential campaign during a book signing in Denver and then again, in an interview with 9NEWS. The 2004 Democratic nominee told a crowd of more than 250 at the Tattered Cover bookstore in lower downtown Denver that he had no desire to endorse any candidate for the office right now, choosing to wait to see how they addressed the issue of global warming.
Kerry and his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, are finishing up a nationwide tour to promote their book, "This Moment on Earth," which highlights successful efforts at the local level to better the environment. Afterwards, while answering a question from a viewer on the program YOUR SHOW about why he chose not to run, Kerry said he had decided it wasn't the right time. "Could that change?" Kerry said. "It might. It may change over years. It may change over months. I can't tell you, but I've said very clearly I don't consider myself out of it forever."
Colorado's leading Republican chuckled at the news Kerry may embark on another presidential run and insisted, just like in 2004, he would not win Colorado. "I would welcome John Kerry to the presidential race," said Colorado Republican Party Chairman Dick Wadhams. "He would fit right in with the current crop of candidates on the other side. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, John Kerry, they all represent a really left-wing viewpoint of the Democratic Party."
When asked whether he expected that decision to change in time for the 2008 race, Kerry said, "If suddenly the field changed or the dynamics of the nation shifted, who knows? You might look at it differently, but I don't see that. I don't foresee that. That's not where I am today and that's not what I'm doing."
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#6
Oh please, oh please. No, no, no. The sight of that woman turns my stomach. The sound of her voice makes my skin crawl. Can't they please just go away?
PPP to back presidents re-election, govt to drop corruption cases Top emissaries of President General Pervez Musharraf and Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) Chairwoman Benazir Bhutto have finalised a draft of a deal between their bosses, Daily Times has learnt. Under the deal, sources said, the Pakistan Peoples Party will first support the re-election of the president by the present assemblies, and later endorse the president in the assemblies after the general elections. In return, the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) would stop pursuing corruption cases against Benazir and Asif Ali Zardari in Swiss courts.
The sources said the emissaries of the president and PPP chairwoman gave finalised the draft of the deal on Sunday night after four rounds of talks held in Dubai and Islamabad in less than a week. A close relative of Benazir is said to be brokering the deal on her behalf. A six-member team, headed by National Security Council Secretary and top aide of the president Tariq Aziz, is representing the government in the talks with Benazirs emissaries, who are led by PPP Parliamentarians Chairman Makhdoom Amin Fahim. The identities of the other members of the government team are not known.
The sources said during the fresh round of talks in Dubai last Friday and Saturday, the presidents uniform remained the bone of contention. Sources, however, said that the presidents team assured Benazir of flexibility on the issue if she did the same. Before leaving for Dubai, the government team met with Benazirs emissaries at Fahims farmhouse in Chak Shahzad in Islamabad, the sources said.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#4
Heal? No need to call, the problem was taken care of. Issue resolved. Now go clean up the Rap Aisle Oprah, before too many intelligent people see this swift action and the excuse making by those who defamed the Duke whiteys as the double standard it is.
a huge terrible storm is coming
a nor easter
the potential hail has bumped imus
off r top story tonight Do they teach you to spell like that in haiku school? Or is it a separate course you have to take?
i was on the stoprosie site
You know, this President invaded a sovereign nation in defiance of the UN. He is basically a war criminal. Honestly. He should be tried at The Hague.
Dont fear the terrorists. Theyre mothers and fathers.
Democracy is threatened in a way it hasnt been in 200 years and if America doesnt stand up were in big trouble.
correct quotes
thank you ethan
well done Very gracious of you, Rosie. Bush didn't invade a sovreign nation in defiance of the UN. Mostly it was in defiance of France and Schroeder's Germany, plus Kofi and the usual suspects. There were perfectly valid UN resolutions dating all the way back to the first Gulf War, any one of which would have been "authorization."
Our democracy's considerably less threatened at the moment than it was during the Civil War, when the Democrats were just about as venal and carping as they are now. And the Know Nothing Party's gone, so we don't have to worry about them. And the Whisky Rebellion's over, as is the Blackhawk War and the Panic of '76. Usually the Republic teeters on the brink of one crisis or another.
I fear the terrorists. Some of them are mothers and fathers, but few of them are rational in the way we understand rationality. I fear minds unhinged. I fear people who're willing to chop people's heads off, to take entire elementary schools hostage and bump off the kiddies. I fear people who're willing to blow up beer joints full of people on vacation, who're willing to dynamite commuter trains and buses and to fly airplanes full of screaming people into tall buildings. You can be friends with them, but I'm keeping my distance from a bunch of dime novel villains who're determined to rule the world in much the same manner Dr. Fu Manchu and Ernst Stavro Blofeld were reputed to have been. The mere fact that you don't like the president for one reason or another does absolutely nothing to negate the fact of the enemy's depravity.
and yes i stand by all of them In that case you're just stoopid. But we guessed that going into this conversation.
however on number 2
i would like the word terrorist
in quotations Sorry. I washed out of a spelling bee when I was in 7th grade. I wanted to go back and change the spelling of the word I'd screwed up, too. The judges wouldn't let me.
dont fear TERRORISTS - they are mothers and fathers The fact that they're mothers and fathers doesn't change the fact that they want to "CUT YOUR HEAD OFF." Since you're not heterosexual, though, you could merely get by with having a brick wall dropped on you.
u see I don't...
since terror been used to scare americans
since 9 11
terrorists - terrorists - everywhere
all of them - bad guys
terrorists - after us - here and there
they sold it
we bought it Apparently you haven't bought it. That's really too bad, since it puts you on their side. Y'see, in their very own words - read through the Rantburg classix - they don't believe in democracy. They believe in rule by Allah, as interpreted by his holy men, kind of like the Papal States, only on a worldwide scale. They don't believe in individual liberty. You're required to worship their God, you're required to dress the way they tell you, and if you decide you don't want to be a Muslim they'll kill you. Even if you keep on being a Muslim, if you say the wrong thing, they'll kill you. Ask Salman Rushdie.
we gave away r civil liberties
fear works Not as well as murder and intimidation, of course. You think this is bad, spend a coupla months in Peshawar.
the 911 terrorists
most came from saudi arabia
and we invaded 2 other countries
minor details We could have done that. Soddy Arabia's a festering sore, the origin of the financing of the war against us. If you're the kind of chess player who burns everything on the board trying to assault your opponent's king that's what you'd have done, though I can't recall hearing you suggest it while the rubble was smoking in Noo Yawk. At the time, Binny was in Afghanistan, which was the very first country we did invade. Saddam was a different kind of pimple, but there were reasons for going after him. Y'see, this isn't a game with only one player, and when we went in and kicked over his traces the other side made their countermove. This is actually not the same war we entered against Sammy. We won that one. The mission really was accomplished. Now we're fighting simultaneous wars against al-Qaeda and Iran and the Iraqi Baath party revanchists. Those last wouldn't present much of a threat without the other two, by the way.
We know you don't pay any attention, since you're busy doing all sorts of important stuff, but the diplomatic war's been nearly as bloody, just in a different manner, as the shooting war. Qaddaffy's thrown in the checked towel of terrorism and decided to become a capitalist or an African or something. The GIA's not running around in Algeria slitting kiddies' throats by the dozen. Syria was forced to withdraw from Lebanon, though they're trying hard to get their proxy running things. Shamil is dead in the Caucasus - not our doing, that I know of, but that particular holy war is on its last legs, barring an infusion of cash and Arabs. The Pentagon Gang's gone, Abu Sayyaf's almost all gone and the MILF's decided they want to negotiate. You've missed some victories that deserved parades down Main Street while you were so busy, Rosie, as well as some defeats that'd have you howling for Bush's head for reasons you haven't even thought of yet.
here is the point
i was trying to make
to elisabeth
who cant see any of them
as anything but terrorists You're the one who's confused. We don't see them all as terrorists, which is what puts our national foot in the moral bucket. We have the power to turn the entire Islamic world into rubble, to exterminate enough of their 1.5 billion souls that the survivors wouldn't amount to a significant number. We don't do it because we see the inhabitants of that world as human beings, each with his/her/its own worth. Being civilized, we don't do murder, much less mass murder.
But neither can you make the mistake of seeing them all as noble freedumb fighters. They're not. Perhaps there's something in the Islamic holy water that makes them want to organize themselves into criminal conspiracies and militias, organizations like Pakistan's TNSM or the Taliban or Hamas or Iran's Pasdaran or the Muslim Brotherhood or Lashkar-e-Taiba or al-Qaeda itself. I wasn't kidding about the Dick Tracy versus Flatop/Pruneface/Whomever aspect of it all. The civilized world really is under attack by homicidal midgets, insidious pintos, and evil villains who stroke their beards as they mutter their threats to the latter-day equivalents of Jack Armstrong and the lovely but dumb Cynthia. Their enemy is individual liberty. That's their target. They want to exterminate it and reduce The Masses (listen for the occasional reference to them) into minions and myrmidons and other flavors of serf.
hundreds of thousands of humans
not terrorists
iraqi mothers and fathers
have been killed by US Considerably less than "hundreds of thousands," unless you buy the doctored figures from the Lancet. You always have to look inside the poke, Rosie, to see if there's actually a pig in there. Even the UN doesn't come up with that many Iraqi corpses, and I think we can pretty well guarantee that the vast majority of Iraqi corpses these days are being produced by their coreligionists.
those innocent ones
the mothers and fathers
they r not terrorists The same applies to Kashmir, where Pakland is waging an absolutely unsubtle war of plausible deniability. The holy men pushing the carnage point to the "90,000" dead, calling them sunk costs too great to walk away from. Less biased figures run about half that, with most of the dead being Paks and the local homicidal serfs and the next highest proportion being civilian casualties, most of them caused by the ruthless minions' inability to throw a hand grenade without killing a dozen or two innocent bystanders. We don't make that up, by the way. We get it mostly from the Pak papers every day, though occasionally from the Indian.
try to paint with a huge brush
a big mess Yeah. Ain't it the truth. Try to generalize from a handful of "received wisdom" facts and the picture you come up with coulda been painted by Salvador Dali on a really bad day.
borderlines everywhere I'm not sure if that means anything or if you just needed the syllables to make it something like haiku. Or maybe you're smoking that Drano stuff again. That's bad for your mind, y'know.
the media has demonized arabs
the facts about the death toll on all sides
is sickening and under reported We just finished discussing the real facts about the death toll.And it's not the media that's demonized the Arabs. It's the Arabs' stench of brimstone, the never-ending, interminable tiresome truculence, the threats of Dire Revenge punctuated by explosions and poorly-aimed gunshots. It's the continuous stream of lies, even when the truth would have done them better. It's their great bat wings, their baleful eyes, their habit of vomiting swarms of bees, and their habit of oppressing their own people.
i am against this war
i support all the troops
i want them home Then you don't support the troops, because the troops are in contact with the enemy each and every day. Most of the troops aren't running around saying "oh, Rosie, bring us home!" Most are saying "let me at those bastards!" That's because most of the troops, unlike you, can sympathize with the Iraq populace, who're real, live, thinking, sweating, bleeding people. Some of them are even, despite their religion, delightful examples of humanity. Has it occurred to you that our soldiers may want to accept the responsibility, painful as it may be, of hunting down and killing the bastards who've been oppressing those poor people since sometime around 3800 B.C.?
i have decided that from now on
i will talk about other things
on the view Good idea. Stay away from politix and religion. Maybe you'll get some of your viewers back.
like y thousands still live in renaissance village
18 months after katrina I have no idea. Why don't you send somebody down there to investigate? You can afford it. It's the slow season at Blogads, so you've got lots more money than I do.
or that 28 million american children live in dire poverty
that 1/2 of all black and hispanic kids in america
do not graduate from high school
1 in 150 autistic = EPIDEMIC
half a million children r in foster care
they r lost
the system is broken Oh, woe is us! I often wonder what happened to our society in the years following 1945. We were seemingly a much happier society, more optimistic, more adventurous, and even more coherent in the days of the Great Depression and during the Second World War.
Think about that. We had much more optimism when things were empirically much worse. Maybe you should hire some ace reporters to investigate that, Rosie.
from now on i will not raise my voice
about this criminal administration
i am sick of screaming IMPEACH Well, that's swell. We're sick of hearing you hollering about it.
unreal
from now on i will say
unreal
ok
just know on the inside
i will be yelling That's okay, just as long as it's not disturbing our concentration on the important stuff.
unreal
i am registering as an independent
cause i am sick of both sides
cowardly silence
as democracy dies
finally a blog
no pray
no play Let us know if you find anything out on that Katrina thing.
Posted by: Fred ||
04/17/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
If this is Rosie's site (as opposed to a fan site), she should hire a Web site designer who's actually graduated from elementary school.
#4
rosie o'donnell is the e.e. cummings professor of lowercase poetry studies at capital university
That's because rosie thinks the Shift key is a Bush administration conspiracy. Am I the only one who thinks that rosie the riveter ought to try living her openly lezbean lifestyle in SA or Iran without the potatoe (sp?) sack wardrobe and see how far she gets? And if she makes it more than 10 seconds, she should try having a TV show there, too.
#11
My God, Rosie. This is so bad, it's painful.
If I have a choice of listening to her raving lunacy or reading a written version, I'll, take the yap. At least I can turn that off. If I didn't know it was her, I would think it was some 15 year old girl trying to sound deep on her MySpace page...
#16
The mere fact that you don't like the president for one reason or another does absolutely nothing to negate the fact of the enemy's depravity.
Which is why I absolutely cannot abide allowing a personal dislike for Bush to interfere with my patriotic duty to defend America against Islams threat.
You always have to look inside the poke, Rosie, to see if there's actually a pig in there.
Strange advice to be giving a pig, but I can deal with it.
It's the continuous stream of lies, even when the truth would have done them better.
Outstanding observation. Somehow, Islams radicals just arent on speaking terms with the truth. Whether or not it stems from taqiyya, this one inability forever cripples all credibility they might have had.
Rosie is the pluperfect example of just how derailed the liberal left is regarding Americanism.
#17
btw - I have to confess that Dan Ackroyd said that one first on SNL, referring to Michele Triola (in her Palimony suit with Lee Marvin) as a "squealing rapacious swamp sow"...I couldn't bear to use 'rapacious' in terms of Rosie, even though it has no sexual connotation. I have SOME standards
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 18:16 Comments ||
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#18
"I often wonder what happened to our society in the years following 1945. We were seemingly a much happier society, more optimistic, more adventurous, and even more coherent in the days of the Great Depression and during the Second World War."
Back then we were a nation of people who had high expectations of themselves, and not-so-high expectations of others. Now, it's the other way around. We demand much from others, and insist they take responsibility (especially via the government) for our own welfare, our own safety, our own comfort, and even our own happiness; yet at the same time, we are indignant when anyone demands anything of us. We have very little responsibility for ourselves anymore; but we are accountable to others (mainly through the agency of our courts) in ways that would have been unimaginable a half-century ago.
The quality of life is not measured in terms of the misfortunes and hardships that come our way; it is measured in the grace and courage and dignity with which we face them. We used to know that. We used to be a strong people. We used to be adults.
But we've lost our way. Now, when we suffer a setback, we go looking for a scapegoat; and having found one, we sue the bastard-- and in the process, we embrace the most extravagent and degrading expression of poor-helpless-victimhood that we can muster. Or, instead of suing, we go on Oprah (at least in our minds, if not in reality) to dramatize our pain and wallow in our "hurt". Or on Jerry Springer to act out our rage and be Asshole For A Day.
What's happened to our society? We've become infantilized, that's what. And infants are not happy campers: they cry and whine a lot.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 19:55 Comments ||
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#19
Bingo! Dave D. We're ALL victims.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
04/17/2007 20:01 Comments ||
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#20
Yup. Especially the ones who crave victimhood.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
04/17/2007 20:02 Comments ||
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#21
but women, children, and minorities suffer the most. The MSM told me so
Posted by: Frank G ||
04/17/2007 20:03 Comments ||
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#22
how about "carpet munchin squealing swamp sow"
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Corruption Commission (ACC) and the joint forces yesterday raided the residence of Khulna Awami League (AL) General Secretary Mostafa Rashidi Shuja. However, they could not enter the house having waited for one and a half hours, as it was under lock and key, sources said. The ACC later asked the AL leader's wife to show her husband's wealth statement, submitted to the High Court earlier, tomorrow. 
Authorities in Bangladesh have arrested a second son of former prime minister Khaleda Zia, officials said Monday, as the a military-backed interim government stepped up its anti-corruption drive.
Sen. John Kerry (D-Massachusetts) reopened the door to a possible 2008 presidential campaign during a book signing in Denver and then again, in an interview with 9NEWS. The 2004 Democratic nominee told a crowd of more than 250 at the Tattered Cover bookstore in lower downtown Denver that he had no desire to endorse any candidate for the office right now, choosing to wait to see how they addressed the issue of global warming. 
Top emissaries of President General Pervez Musharraf and Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) Chairwoman Benazir Bhutto have finalised a draft of a deal between their bosses, Daily Times has learnt. Under the deal, sources said, the Pakistan Peoples Party will first support the re-election of the president by the present assemblies, and later endorse the president in the assemblies after the general elections. In return, the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) would stop pursuing corruption cases against Benazir and Asif Ali Zardari in Swiss courts.
a huge terrible storm is coming
