Britain's government received a welcome boost over its controversial policy of detaining foreign terrorism suspects without trial after a court rejected an attempt by 10 detainees to win freedom. The High Court in London turned down a challenge by lawyers acting for the 10 men against a ruling that Home Secretary David Blunkett had "sound material" to back up his decision they were a risk to national security, and thus should be detained. That ruling was made by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission, or SIAC, a secretive legal tribunal which decides on the status of foreign nationals facing detention or deportation on the grounds of national security. The men's lawyers had argued it was wrong to hold them under evidence which might have been gathered using torture or ill-treatment at US detention centres such as Guantanamo Bay in Cuba or Bagram airbase in Afghanistan. However in a lengthy written ruling, a trio of judges turned down the appeal against the SIAC decision. A lawyer for the men, leading human rights activist Gareth Peirce, described the judgment as "terrifying". "It shows that we have completely lost our way in this country legally and morally," she said. "We have international treaty obligations which prevent the use of evidence obtained by torture in any proceedings."
The 10, most of whom have been detained for more than two and a half years, have been held under the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act, passed soon after the September 11 attacks in the United States in 2001. The law allows foreigners to be jailed indefinitely without charge or trial if the home secretary rules they are suspected of involvement in international terrorism, and they opt not to leave the country.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/15/2004 7:34:14 PM ||
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Restart the generators.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 19:38 Comments ||
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These people are not the victims here. The reason they are still held is the quaint U.K. law that doesn't allow them to be deported to anyplace they might face ( likely deserved in these 10 cases) the death peanalty. Otherwise they would have been deported 2 years ago. These folks are not the types that would let the average sheeple/folk live safe peaceful lives if given leave to roam about the U.K. at their own leave.
Human Rights Lawyers aren't. They will be the day they start defending people who are arrested for illegally enacted laws (like most US firearms laws.) Until then they are tools used by terrorists and other useless scum.
You can't have it both ways. Your either support real human rights like the right to the means of self defense or you are a (pick one or more) terroist/commie/facist/racist/nut job tool.
As for this off spring of a female dog; she is everthing bad about trial lawyers and more. The BBC loves Gareth Peirce which is enough alone to make me despise this old pruned-up kunt.
British intelligence agencies have drawn up a list of around 100 Islamist activists they suspect are involved in terrorist activities in the UK, The Observer can reveal. The security authorities are on high alert following a month of warnings and a series of arrests in Britain, the US and Pakistan. Most of those on the list are British citizens, mainly of Pakistani descent, although some are those of naturalised immigrants from the Middle East. Since 11 September 2001, intelligence agencies have focused their efforts on a perceived threat from within the UK, rather than from a group of 'al-Qaeda operatives' who infiltrate from outside. But sources who have viewed the list say that, although it includes some 'serious players', it is deeply flawed.
Oh. Well. In that case you should throw it away...
They say many of the individuals are marginal figures or are not involved at all. The view will raise fears that poor intelligence could lead to operations that will damage community relations while serving no useful counter-terrorist purpose. 'A lot of the names there are pretty historic,' said one person who has seen the list. 'Even if the people named are still involved, they are only acting in very minor support activities. Often they are now family men who had a bit of an adventure in their youth. They are decent citizens now.'
"Even though they may still be involved in terrorism, kinda sorta..."
Many of those on the list are Britons of Pakistani origin who fought for Islamist militant groups in Kashmir, the disputed Himalayan mountain state, several years ago and have since ceased their involvement with radical Islamist activism. Hundreds of British citizens are believed to have fought in Kashmir and then returned to the UK. Such activities were not illegal at the time.
"So we should induce amnesia in ourselves and not expect them to do anything terrible now..."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/15/2004 2:54:49 AM ||
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Even if the people named are still involved [in terrorism], they are only acting in very minor support activities.
Well, their names certainly should be removed from the list!
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/15/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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Many of those on the list are Britons of Pakistani origin who fought for Islamist militant groups in Kashmir, the disputed Himalayan mountain state, several years ago and have since ceased their involvement with radical Islamist activism.
Over here we call 'em sleepers. C'mon, UK get a grip.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/15/2004 13:18 Comments ||
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How does the Guardain author know that they are minor players? What sources in the terrorists does he have?
A Lufthansa airplane flying from Turkey to Germany safely made an emergency landing Sunday in Budapest after an anonymous bomb threat was received, police said. Lufthansa Flight 3341 from Istanbul landed safely at Ferihegy Airport at 3:15 p.m. after the pilot requested an unscheduled landing, said Viktoria Kovacs, a spokeswoman for the Hungarian National Police. Kovacs said security personnel did not find any bombs or explosive devices on the Airbus A321, and that the plane would be allowed to continue on to Germany. The airline said 169 passengers and six crew were on board, but Hungarian police put the number of passengers at 172.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/15/2004 7:51:04 PM ||
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Dutch media states that the terror group al-Tawhid wa al-Jihad has made a "last" warning to the Dutch government to pull- back it's troops from Iraq. On an Arab web site they seem to say the following: "You will be surprised by the Islamic earthquake that will awaken your country. You haven't learnt from the lessons in Spain and other countries. You only understand the language of blood and car bombs".
#1
These guys are doing a lot of mouthing. Credibility gap is arising.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 19:44 Comments ||
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My friend in the Netherlands says the muslims are taking over. No doubt they have the bodies and will in country. The Dutch police spend most of their time giving traffic tickets as it's a major source of money for the welfare state that sponsors this large islamic population. They spend little time on real crime not even bothering to take reports of assults or major thefts. His former girl friend was raped by "an african" and the police did no investigation. That is all from his mouth and he works in the criminal justice system. They just shrugged their shoulders accordign to him.
If they get hit it's beacuse thay have taken a mind set that they can do nothing about it. I feel sorry for that society but my own is not much better I know.
A top security official estimates that there are 30 to 50 Islamic elements in Germany who have received training at al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan, the magazine Focus reported. In its latest issue to appear on newsstands on Monday, the weekly said that Joerg Ziercke, president of the Federal Crime Office BKA in Wiesbaden, cited this number in a report to the German parliament's interior committee. Focus quoted Ziercke as having told the committee that the persons posed ''potential danger'' to Germany. But he said proof of training at a camp in Afghanistan was not sufficient grounds for security authorities to act against the al- Qaeda suspects.
The Interior Minister of the southern state of Bavaria, Guenther Beckstein, has been demanding that proof of such training made an expulsion from the country urgently necessary. Focus said security officials were not clear as to how many terrorism-prone Islamic elements were in Germany altogether. It cited federal constitution protection authorities as estimating there were 300 who could be classified as being a ''danger''. Officials were also not clear whether al-Qaeda centrally plans attacks such as the terror bombings of a commuter train in Madrid last March. In addition to the al-Qaeda organisation itself, there were ''exclusively regionally operating groups'', the BKA believes. In Wiesbaden, the BKA on Saturday said it could not confirm the Focus report.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/15/2004 3:01:02 AM ||
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he said proof of training at a camp in Afghanistan was not sufficient grounds for security authorities to act against the al- Qaeda suspects
Change the expiration dates on their visas to today, and then deport them tomorrow because their visas are expired.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/15/2004 11:40 Comments ||
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The BKA needs to get a clue. Training in a terrorist camp damn is a ground for immediate deportation.
If I were the minister of transportation I'd create a shuttle service to Gitmo in a heartbeat.
#3
Just a sign that Europe is not taking the threat seriously. Training in those camps is enough to expel those persons to their country of origin.
Europe is going to fall because they don't have the will to survive as cultures or even on an individual basis mostly. They are being led down a road to their own destruction by the ass clowns in the EU headquaters which is fortified by the likes of "le worm" and Schröder.
A group claiming links to al Qaeda called on its fighters to attack "all targets" in Italy after it ignored the group's Aug. 15 deadline for Italian troops to quit Iraq, an Internet statement said Sunday. The Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades said Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was one of its main targets, adding that its forthcoming attacks would not stop until "Iraq is secure. The Italian government has dug its own grave after it heeded the top infidel America and remained in Iraq to shed blood ... which is why it is responsible for all the blood that will flow in Italy."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/15/2004 2:49:41 AM ||
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Yadda, yadda, yadda....
Oh, wait - is that Yiddish maybe? My bad. Sorry to insult you, jihadis.
NOT.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/15/2004 15:05 Comments ||
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#2
These yahoos have been making a lot of threats without backing them up. They're developing a serious credibility problem.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 15:11 Comments ||
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Iraq's most influential Shia leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, is in a stable condition after undergoing a heart operation in London. The ayatollah's London office said the 73-year-old cleric had an angioplasty procedure to unblock a coronary artery. He had flown into London on 6 August for treatment at the world-renowned Harefield heart hospital. Ayatollah Sistani's London office said on Friday: "There were no adverse side effects during this operation and his health is currently stable."
Posted by: Seafarious ||
08/15/2004 12:09:27 AM ||
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No surprise, Sadr's perfidy is enough to give anyone a coronary.
Al-Jazeera is in the news again. Iraqi authorities shut down the Qatari television station's Baghdad offices, citing the "violence they are advocating, inciting hatred and problems and racial tension." The U.S. Democratic party decided to take down Al-Jazeera's banner from its national conference, so it would not be televised around the globe. But in Canada, in the biggest telecommunications uproar in decades, Al-Jazeera won approval for distribution over Canada's pristine, politically correct, airwaves. This unlikely success in Canada for an Islamist, antisemitic, pro-terrorist channel was achieved by winning a special dispensation not available to the Fox News Channel, the Italian state channel RAI, or a local Quebec City-based radio station — a dispensation full of implications.
First, some background: The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) was formed in 1968 to decide who gets to broadcast in Canada, and has always seen its mandate primarily to serve as a bulwark against American programming, fearing that the giant to the south would overwhelm homegrown talent. The main criterion for a foreign station to win access to Canada was its not competing with companies already in the Canadian marketplace, plus the existence of consumer demand for their product. Then, in 1986-87, restricting "abusive comment" became a CRTC responsibility, after Canada's "anti-hate laws" amended the Criminal Code, the Broadcasting Act, and other human rights statutes. Its only leverage however, was to grant or revoke 5-to-7-year licenses, though in instances, it can revoke a license sooner. The CRTC lacks funds to monitor stations on its own, so it responds to complaints, investigates them, and if it finds them warranted, revokes licenses. For example, earlier in July, the CRTC revoked Quebec radio station CHOI's license, on the "abusive comment" grounds. CHOI is a legitimate outlet but displays a politically incorrect agenda, regularly offending gays, women, and others. CHOI ignored CRTC warnings to change its ways and got shut down. Note that the CRTC made no attempt to sift the wheat from the chaff, block out a few shows, or fire a few announcers. It revoked the CHOI license, plain and simple.
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Posted by: tipper ||
08/15/2004 3:40:04 AM ||
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Al Jiz Yes, FNC NO? Seems like a nice balanced news up there in Canada. IMO, the libs in this country would follow suit if they were in charge of the FCC. Too bad they can't censor the Internet or the entire country could be ignorant.
...after several warnings from the CRTC, which the station chose to ignore. I wouldn't cry any tears for this station, unless of course, you agree with the station that mentally disabled people should be gassed.
I predict that Al Jazeera will last for about one month.
Posted by: Rafael ||
08/15/2004 14:42 Comments ||
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As a sidenote, France sattelite channels do include Al Jazeera, but not FNC (it was dropped from the two main providers' programs in 2002 IIRC); I emailed FNC about their fine channel which I briefly enjoyed, to see if it was ever going to be aired again in France, and they answered that providers (Canal sat, tps) told them they were not interested... Cute, we've got Al Jiz, Al arabya, Al Manar (which may be banned), but not the channel of the eviill yankees neocons... I surely missed it during OIF.
#4
Anybody know if Fox News is available anywhere as a video or audio stream? Either for purchase or bootleg. I don't have a TV, but I've got heaps of bandwidth. Last year during the war, some good samaritan rebroadcast FNC audio onto the net via Shoutcast. My usual drill was to concurrently run Fox audio, a BBC News video stream and the video stream of the Baghdad traffic circle from a news pool camera atop one of the hotels. That and lots of war blog surfing.
#5
Nothing new here. If it's anti US it's good. My friends in Canada were all taught in school to hate the US and that jews and Isreal are to blame for all the problems in the middle east.
Despite the best efforts CRTC television in Canada is dominated by US programming. That doesn't include the many DDS satelite dishes illegaly being operated in Canada.
I forsee Al Jizz having a long run in Canada because it's all about socialist politics not about bias. If it puts Jews and the US in a bad light even if it's lies it's OK.
The Pentagon has urged Congress to authorize 500 million dollars for building a network of friendly militias around the world to purge terrorists from "ungoverned areas" -- and warned Muslim clerics against providing "ideological sanctuary" to radicals. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, a key architect of the Iraq war, told the House Armed Services Committee Tuesday the money would be used "for training and equipping local security forces -- not just armies -- to counter terrorism and insurgencies."
If approved as part of a larger defense bill, the package will "provide greater internal security in areas that are or could become sanctuaries for terrorists," he said. No specific beneficiaries of the program were named, but US officials have repeatedly expressed concern about vast tracts of land along the Afghan-Pakistani border, in Iraq, the Caucasus, Horn of Africa and various islands in the Philippines where radical Islamic fighters could set up shop. The strategy has already been tried in Afghanistan, where US special forces managed to forge alliances with some tribal warlords, who became instrumental in bringing down the Taliban government in 2001 and keeping its remnants at bay, said US military experts. "Indeed, our most important allies in the war on terrorism will be Muslims who seek freedom and oppose extremism," Wolfowitz stated. The request comes amid a concerted push by top Defense Department and other administration officials to develop new forms of "asymmetrical" warfare that would be more effective against small terrorist cells and would spare the United States the need to deploy large contingents of its own forces around the world. Addressing the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations last week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke of the need for the Pentagon to adjust to the new reality of not having to confront big foreign armies, navies and air forces it was originally trained to fight. "There are not a lot of them around at the moment," the secretary pointed out. "And we've got manhunts going on."
Posted by: Fred ||
08/15/2004 7:36:43 PM ||
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Ahhhh, finally, a realistic offensive plan for those countries we can't send our troops to.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
08/15/2004 21:43 Comments ||
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Let's start by building a few militias along our southern border, to stop the leaks there.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/15/2004 23:11 Comments ||
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basically the idea is to formally negate the harsh Medina verses that justify violence - this was from an Aug 14 opinion piece.
"...The deadly weapon that the Muslim terrorists carry is the Quran. It tells them, and commands them, among others, to carry out the following actions against the Pagans, the Jews and the Christians:
1. "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers ...[author lists a number of other violence justifying verses]...
The matter being as such, one needs to ask the Muslims Apologists as to why these apparently hateful verses should remain in the Quran, when they are not supposed to be applicable in the lives of Muslims today. They must also explain as to what lessons the readers of the Quran are supposed to derive from many of its apparently violent passages. If the instructions to murder, which are embedded in many verses of the Quran, are not intended for the present-day Muslims, then why not remove these verses from the Quran, so that it can really be a book from which Muslims could learn nothing, but the lessons of love, kindness, forgiveness and unconditional respects for other religions.
Are Muslims willing, and prepared, to turn the Quran into a real "Holy Book," thereby ensuring the survival of mankind on earth in peace and harmony?
Posted by: mhw ||
08/15/2004 12:09:08 AM ||
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The matter being as such, one needs to ask the Muslims Apologists as to why these apparently hateful verses should remain in the Quran, when they are not supposed to be applicable in the lives of Muslims today.
One explanation I've heard is that this is due to the Middle East historically having been a land of extremely limited resources. In order for one person to prosper, another must suffer as there just isn't enough to go around. This zero-sum equation has been scaled up into an all encompassing philosophy that consequently enjoins its adherents to either co-opt nonbelievers or simply kill them as a threat to survival.
None of this takes into account the gigantic strides made since that time in the areas of irrigation, industrial grade agriculture, animal husbandry or the exceptionally deleterious effects obtained by ignoring an opposing culture's immense advantage in terms of weapons and tactics that could serve to annihilate any such minor threat that Islamism might pose.
Attempts by Islamists to transpose this ancient disregard for the value of human life onto modern secular societies will ultimately prove their downfall. Only the French most suicidal of opponents would willingly accept on face value the self-proclaimed superiority of a creed that idealizes a 7th century technological motif.
By maintaining such a hostile posture it is supposedly possible to overlook the complete lack of significant social progress or any evolution towards a more compatible ideology that might encourage coexistence at the cost of assimilation. This blind pursuit of doctrinal purity at any cost is reflected in an abject unwillingness to admit the virtues of any other culture's achievements or value.
In short, without any persuasive evidence of a genuine and authentic wish for reformation, such pigheadedness needs to be rewarded with swift and immediate death.
"The next night in the Berber town of Matmata we met a pair of German travelers -- Michael and Jung. Both were in their 30s, like us. They were great guys. Traveled every year together, always to Muslim countries. Thought Europe was boring. Hoped, like us, to travel to Libya next. Tried, like us, and failed to get into Libya this trip. We shared a hookah with them, and that's when Shelly asked them the question: "Are you two ever invited to sit down for tea?"
They looked at each other, surprised at the question.
"By Tunisians?" Jung asked.
"By Tunisians," she said.
And they looked at each other again. "No," they both said."
"No," they both said. "They prefer to blow us up when we visit synagogues."
#4
Touche`, Bryan, Touche`. I suppose I deserved that...lol. I didn't say that it was all sweetness and light, just that it was an interesting read and a different perspective.
We can't kill 'em all brother, not even the 10% of the population as would be the case in a WWII type conflict or in the US civil war, (actually I think that was closer to 6%).
I posted the other day on seeing the HBO film, A Death in Gaza, and while my take would certainly be different than most people...(close up shot of 10 to 12 year old boy that wants to be martyred)...Okay, kill him.
The truth is that not even Israel can kill all the young boys that have grown up twisted in Gaza and on the West Bank...let alone throughout the Muslim world. I'm not being difficult about this, as a practical question, it simply can't be done.
Truly this article has it right, as the tree is bent, so it will grow. It still seems curious to me that Israel did not take over the schools and print the text books and hire the teachers in the WB and Gaza.
It is the only solution for Israel and the United States.
#5
It was a nice read until your very last sentence...which I do understand.
Traveller, you may be interpreting my statement as applying to all Islam. It does not, at least, not yet. A few more atrocities or a single terrorist nuclear attack and that will probably change. As of now, my words are directed strictly at Islamists who are unable to accept any concept of reformation or secular coexistence.
#6
"Truly this article has it right, as the tree is bent, so it will grow. It still seems curious to me that Israel did not take over the schools and print the text books and hire the teachers in the WB and Gaza."
Traveller, this wouldn't work. A similar thing was tried during Apartheid in 1976 when the govt. wanted to educate black children in Afrikaans - the language of white Afrikaner SA. It led to the Soweto Riots.
Besides, it's up to the Palestinians themselves to de-indoctrinate their children.
#7
The truth is that not even Israel can kill all the young boys that have grown up twisted in Gaza and on the West Bank...let alone throughout the Muslim world. I'm not being difficult about this, as a practical question, it simply can't be done.
From all outward appearances, it would seem as though the Muslims will accomplish this without much help from the Israelis. The death toll of Muslim on Muslim violence (e.g., Iran vs Iraq, Darfur, Pakistan, Afghanistan) far exceeds anything unleashed upon them by outside forces.
PS: The old saying is: "As the twig is bent, so grows the tree."
his is Tunisia, a country where fundamentalists have been kept in check, (meaning that they probably never got so much contraction), who has the most liberal woman status in the Maghreb and probably in the whole Arab world (to begin with poligamy is illegal AFAIK).
Since a good part of their revenue comes from tourism they cannot afford the luxury of hating and dreaming of world domination whiile sitting in their oil. The jewel of their industry is their textile industry who works mainly as subcontractors for the Jewish firms of the Marais in Paris.
#9
JMF and Zenster, you both make excellent points. I agree with both of your positions...but it also seems necessary to keep in perspective that the entire Muslim world is not at war with us, and we don't want them at war with us.
Now Fallujah and Najaf are an entirely different argument. UPI has a nice and detailed story on the new trouble in Fallujah, and I have written my perscription for that area of the conflict. If I see that story posted, I'll also put up my reciept. Not for a victory there, but for honor, between conflicting soldiers.
#10
... but it also seems necessary to keep in perspective that the entire Muslim world is not at war with us, and we don't want them at war with us.
Traveller, while you are more than clear, it is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish between those Muslims that do not seek conflict with the West and those that do. This is not due to any willful confusion on the part of non-Islamic people. There is an ultimately damning lack of both condemnation and concerted action towards the expulsion of violent jihadis from many of the world's Muslim cultures. This is no fault of the West and cannot possibly be laid at the door of secular cultures.
It is incumbent upon the whole of Islam to both combat terrorism and excise from their doctrine those passages which assert the usefulness of vioent jihad. Nothing of the sort has been forthcoming on any sort of scale to convince even the most generous of observers.
There is not one thing that any outsiders can do to promote the necessary degree of change within Islam. It must be voluntary, authentic and sincerely motivated from within or else it is meaningless. Coercion and incentives are a flawed approach to correcting this dangerous problem as they will not render the vitally needed changes.
The West cannot merely bide its time in the blithe hope that Islam will remedy these deficiencies on their own. Such laxity will only assure more atrocities and the eventual deployment of nuclear or biochemical attacks against secular societies. This is not an option. An agressive campaign of eradication must be waged against hostile elements within Islam.
In the absence of any significant realignment or alteration in how Muslims define themselves, it will eventually have to be assumed that Islam and terrorism are inseperable. While this is not entirely the case as of now, little time is left for Muslims to begin a vigorous program of distinguishing themselves as opponents and, finally, as enemies of violent jihad.
Should this prove impossible, there is nothing to separate Islam from the Islamists and all of them will need to die as a result. This world has no room nor even the need for such a destructive meme in its midst. Centuries of grueling progress are at stake and precious little benefit can come of accommodating the tyrannical whims of Islamists or their silent accomplices.
What remains certain is that this is a fight to the death. Islamism must be exterminated. There is no choice in the matter when global application of Sharia law stands as the only alternative. Whosoever advocates universal theocratic rule is an enemy of all other cultures. Islamism most definitely qualifies for this definition, and even Islam as a whole with its glaring absence of action towards ending terrorism is rapidly stepping into this selfsame station.
Secular nations cannot be blamed for confusing a criminal element with those who abet same. It is for Islam to strive towards reform or inevitably seek its own demise. Should such reformation turn out to be impossible, anihilation is all that awaits. I cannot have mercy upon those who would show me none either. Islam must reform or die, no options.
#11
Well I will say this, This thread has brought out the absolute best thinking and writing possible on the subject. For that Kudos to everyone, (of course there's always good writing at Rantburg...a little over the top at times, but still good, which is why thoughtful people from all over the world read it).
What you are really saying, Zenster, (if I may paraphrase you...lol) is that Radical Islam must reform, and in that we entirely agree. In an ever shrinking world, I want as few as enemies as possible. I agree that Islam does not, because of the quality of weapons available, have the centuries to reform itself as was necessary for Christianity to leave the Dark Ages.
This will take time, maybe with luck we'll get most of it done in decades, and nothing will happen in these ensuing years of patient pressure on Islam.
Hope is a thing with feathers.
(And nobody here get out their shotguns either...lol)
#12
I agree that Islam does not, because of the quality of weapons available, have the centuries to reform itself as was necessary for Christianity to leave the Dark Ages.
This is the crux of the matter. Because of how WMDs have proliferated and the determination of Islamists to obtain (and use) them, sand now runs through the hourglass at a terrifying rate. We most certainly do not have "decades," only a few years, more like. It is almost surreal to consider that some 1.5 BILLION lives hinge upon Islam abandoning and, finally, actively combating terrorism. Yet, if it is a choice between those 1.5 billion people and global theocracy reversing the last 12 centuries of progress, Muslims can bend over and kiss their collective Islamic @sses goodbye. I would mourn the loss of so much humanity, but not the extinction of such a threat to our entire planet.
#13
Of the 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, I've heard of about ten who've condemned the terror committed in their name. But let's be generous and assume that 100 have in fact spoken out.
That leaves 1 499 999 900 Muslims who:
* Are terorists
* Support terror
* Are indifferent to terror
* Have never heard of terror
* Are against terror but will not speak up
#14
Did you know that the prophet used to visit sick Jews?
Inspite of the fact that they were the ones who hurt him most, and he could have banished them from Madinah in a minute?
AND that the verse quated is misleading, you shouldn't read part of the verse only.
It was probably said about taking sides in a war.
#21
Plenty of Mohammed's murderous trash talking in the Hadith too. Does he propose to prune the Hadith too? A whole new school of revisionist Islamic theology would have to be set up to get (some)Muslims to negate the Jihadist verses.
The world doesn't have enough time for such a school to get organized and to re-educate Muslim minds.
#22
ex muslim huh? Apostacy/murtad has a price in the Religion of Peace, right? doesn't he have to be killed? Your weak-minded drivel and lies will be exposed, Gentle
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 8:40 Comments ||
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#23
I do not think there is anyone now with the power to say that he is to be killed. They should try to convince him to get back though.
#24
"the men who insisted on fighting AND betrayed him"
That's a jewel - how can one "betray" when one does not believe? This is incredibly flawed "logic" - shame, troll.
"they moved away"
You truly are a simple-minded cloistered baby factory and pet creature. Does your Lord and Master realize you surf the 'Net and interact with men? Your toying with thoughts and things "intellectual" alone are worthy of a thrashing of you "non-sensitive" parts. Surely you have a brood of Muslings to attend to. Run along, now, and be sure to give him a good wet blowjob so he may forgive your absurd pretentions and scandalous behavior. There's a nice dog. :)
#25
They betrayed him by promising to be on his side during the war, then leaving the muslims back unprotected, and conspiring with the enemy.
AND you need lots of soap to wash your mouth.
I'm not married, I'm still a student.
Frank, do you really like this kind of talk on your site?
#28
A student. How yummy! I rented a wife who sounded much like you in Dubai, once. Very compliant - and I made it a point to work her over. In short order, there was no undiscovered territory remaining - no frontier to challenge and entice. Alas, she became boring in the extreme rather quickly. There was something missing... a brain and individual will.
#42
You realize of course that every time you post you are pinning a "Kick me" sign to your back? Have you had ANY critical thinking courses? Until you can debate a point using your own brainpower you will mocked here and not debated in good faith.
Surely you jest, Miz D! A "job" implies some rather pedestrian aspects which, I suspect, do not apply to Gentle. "Kept" is likely Gentle's future occupation.
#44
Whose brainpower do you think I'm using?
besides, most people here don't "debate". They mock, and insult.
Or is that the way things are done in America?
#50
I don't think there is so much reason to bash Gentle. She is a muslim girl studying in Abu Dhabi and may very well represent the better future of the Arab world. You can't blame her for defending her religion and while some of her comments may sound a bit naive, I don't see bad faith in her or any sympathy for Islamists.
#51
TGA - see the "Iraqis to attack in Najaf" post - she doesn't know what shrine is in Najaf - Gentle is a fraud
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 9:37 Comments ||
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#52
Thank you.
I have this feeling that you are in the U.A.E., or how would you know that there is a second branch of the university in Abu Dhabi?
I study in Dubai though.
If my guess is right, then you can put lots of people here to right.
#53
Probably something to do with the Shia.
Why should I know of it?
Do you expect Catholics to know everything about protestents?
I told you : Najaf is not a Holy city.
#54
Gentle - I knew a (very) few young Saudi women who "worked" at Aramco - solely because they had fathers with oodles of wasta. They were resented by the Saudi males - because they took a job away from the men who had real obligations. They were treated as a joke. Nothing of substance was assigned and nothing they had to say (in meetings, when they were so brave as to speak up) was given credence or weight. Barely tolerated covers the attitude. I assume you either do not think much of your sisters in Saudi - or you empathize with them in their Wahhabi bondage.
I could stop debate dead in its tracks there by noting that the Saudis were doomed -- they threw half of their country's brainpower away at birth.
How do you reconcile their circumstances vs. yours without some measure of condemnation of Wahhabism? Would you trade places? Lol, you would, indeed, be momentarily outraged to find you would have no voice, whatsoever, regards your future. You would be a pet. A toy. A baby factory. I said momentarily because such insolence would not be tolerated. And I know what I'm talking about because one of these very sweet and intelligent young ladies became, within the limits of the workplace, like a daughter to me. She even made me blush a few times with her candor and resentment.
#56
They hate the Wahabis there .com.
most of them are extremists. I told you that.
I do NOT agree with the way things are in Saudi.
If it wasn't for Mecca and Madina I wouldn't go there.
Happy?
Besides, Mecca and Madina are diffrent. They were forced some time ago to join Saudi arabia against their will.
#57
I guess you're feeling a bit touchy. I lived there - they (the men) don't hate Wahhabis - it's pretty much all they know until they reach a certain age - their 30's at least - when they have the means to travel. The women hate it when they're young - before they've been beaten into submission.
"Besides, Mecca and Madina are diffrent. They were forced some time ago to join Saudi arabia against their will."
This logic also applies to ALL of the vaunted sacred lands of Islam.
#58
Gentle, I'm indeed a bit amazed that you know nothing of Najaf. Even as a Sunni you must have heard of Shi'ites. They are "hardly a cult that came up later". And even a Catholic would have heard of Luther.
No I'm not in the Emirates although I know them (including Dubai, where the Saudis go for booze and girls).
.com, you are surely right but that may change. Women who get to study in the Islamic world are usually brighter than all those rich men's sons who just waste a bit of time before Daddy gets them a nominal "job" to boss around Pakistani or Philippine workers (in Saudi at least).
#61
THERE IS NOTHING HOLY ABOUT NAJAF.
we only have three holy places:
Mecca, Medina, and palastine.
The Shia don't even believe in the prophet!
GET IT?
#63
When did Palestine become a holy place? I'm merely an infidel and know that ya'll think the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is where Ol' Mo' jumped into heaven.
#68
Already done it.
I discovered that Catholicism is very near to the teachings of Islam.
Closer than anything else.
Why?
By the way:
We, Emaratis, all are students. There is hardly anyone who does not study or work in the U.A.E.
#70
I'm smoking fresh air. You need some!
Yes, most Shiaas do not believe in the prophet.
They think That Ali should have been chosen instead.
Look it up.
#72
Gentle, honey, Catholicism has zip in common with Islam. You really should get that refund on your education tuition
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 10:18 Comments ||
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#73
I have read parts of the bible.
I loved "Ye shall know the truth..."
I mean, you should read it.
If you understand the truth, that Islam is peaceful, it will set you free.
WR: I researched it and came to that decision, of course.
#74
Gentle, Shi'a Muslims accept Ali, the son-in-law and cousin of the Prophet Muhammad, as the legal successor of Muhammad and disregard three of the other four caliphs who succeeded him. They also regard twelve descendants of Ali as Imams, or spiritual successors of the Prophet.
I suggest you skip "Islamic Study". Looks like you waste your time there.
#78
I wonder, if Wahhabism isn't your cup o' tea, what about the Taliban? Just thinking aloud, since your Govt recognized the Taliban and the differences between them and the most extreme Wahhabis is, shall we say, mere window dressing...
#80
The largest Shi'ite sect is that of the Ithna Ashariyah or Twelvers, who recognize the legitimacy of a succession of twelve Alid claimants (beginning with Ali himself) who are known as imams. The term "Shia" is often taken to be synonymous with the Twelvers. There are also several forms of Sevener Shi'a sects, the largest being known as Ismailis. The Seveners and Twelvers differ regarding the rights of succession after the death of Muhammad, but they agree that the Sunni have usurped the rightful authority of Muhammad's family descendants. Other minor groups exist that grew out of Shiism, such as the Zaidis who believe in the same first four Imams as the Twelvers and Seveners, but differ on the fifth. They are thus known as Fivers.
They all believe in Mohammed. It's about his succession (and other things) where they disagree.
Those who don't believe in Mohammed are not Muslims. That would be like saying that there are Christians who don't believe in Jesus.
#85
Nothing like pointing out sectarian intolerance within Islam to an uninformed Muslim apologist.
Sometimes what looks like ignorance is in reality stark hatred---against the Shia, the Jews, the list goes on.
#87
Actaully, as a Catholic, I know quite a lot about Protestants. They are, after all, Christians and we have the important things common at the core of our beliefs (with the exception of some odd folks like the Adventists, Jehova Witnesses and Mormons).
And as for the lack of responses from "Gentle"
Guys, learn to read a clock. Remember they are 2 or 3 hours ahead of UCT - meaning a good 7-8 hours ahead of Central Daylight time.
As for Islam, TGA paints a fairly accurate picture of the difereing sects.
The problem for Islam is that they have no central Church to trigger and sustain a reform (either as a driving force in response to the reformation, or as a "big target" for the reformers to rebel against).
There is no central repository for apostolic continuation from the Prophet - only a bunch of competing claims. There is also no Magesterium from which the central teachings can flow
You shoudl remember that prior to the Reformation, there were over 1400 years of solidification, clarification and refining of the Christian faith under the guidance of the one, apostolic and universal (catholic - note the lower case 'c') Church.
Even today, all the Christian protestant churches support the most vital Dogmas established by the Catholic Church (although they may dispute Doctrines and Opinions).
There is no such unity for Islam, which is why I hold out little hope for any meaningful reformation. Add to that some of the Sutras and quotes in the Qo'ran that plainly incite "cultural racism" and violence toward outsiders, and the accumulation of power inthe hands of Imams. And on top of that there are the defects of culture: the Arab "strong man" culture that has grown a scaffolding to support the mysogynistic views and a repressive & primitve society that has yet to truly evolve from Tribalism and Feudalism (in terms of people's rights and allegiances).
In short, given the cultural embedding of Islam into Arabism, and the words themsleves and the ability of local Imams to twist the Qo'ran to suit any evil they wish to promote...
In my observation (admittedly incomplete) there really isnt much hope for Islam other than a near extinguishment of it to the point where it can be reformed by a much smaller and more concentrated set of practicioners who are broken free from the shackles of fundamentalism and Arabism.
The odd thing is that the collision with the modern secular world is tearing Islam to pieces since it is fundamentally incompatable. And that, oddly enough, will eventually lead to the conditions for a reformation, if the current militantism in Shi'a Iran, the fundamentalist Madrassa hate factories in Pakistan, and the Wahabbist Sunni Fascists can be pushed out of existence or at least into irrelevance (and exposed as the political, not religious, movement that they are).
#88
As i've said before, reforming Islam is a long shot but it isn't impossible.
There are some positive indicators (yes I know the negative indicators are greater) for example,
1. Apostate groups have organized on the internet
2. The Ahmayaddi (who have stated that the violence verses of the Quran are no longer valid and who pretty much deny the entire hadith) are growing faster than any other Muslim groups in Britain and India
3. Scholarly work is finally proceeding on the Quran and this work is demonstrating that individual verses of the the Quran changed during the first 100 years of Islam as well as showing that some parts of the Quran were originally written down in aramaic rather than arabic.
#90
The problem with all this religious stuff is not religion, it is MONEY, and that comes from OIL. Nobody gave a rodent's behind what the ME did until they started using all their left over cash to fund mardrassas to twist the minds of the young to hate the West and want its destruction. Now we have thousands of young people out there with no future except jihad and martydom. In some ways one can see the source of their anger and that is with the degeneracy of the West. But what to do about it is the big issue. We have to look at the big picture and the long term. One of the things we have to do is to interrupt the cycle of brainwashing of another generation, and that involves interrupting funding to the hate schools. If practioners of Islam don't clean up their act, then events will force the rest of the world to clean it up for them, and it won't be pretty for anyone on either side.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/15/2004 15:59 Comments ||
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#91
I'm curious about Gentle and his/her claims. Gentle claims to have been taught a peaceful and tolerant version of Islam, but shows some rather spectacular gaps in knowledge.
If the only way to find a moderate Islam is to leave out large chunks of history and pretend the Shi'ites aren't really Muslim, I'm afraid I don't have a lot of hope for reformation. But, maybe somebody is trying...
Gentle claims to be at Zayed University. I've never been to the MidEast, and in any event I generally get to Rantburg at a relatively late hour. Have any of the earlybirds been in that neck of the woods, and know some obscure detail about the area that we could quiz Gentle on to test his/her bona fides?
Posted by: James ||
08/15/2004 17:09 Comments ||
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#92
After review of today's discussion I am reasonably sure that Gentle is actually Antiwar. I guess she tired of passing herself off as a Australian Christian and decided to try a Malibu Barbie Burka on for size. The rhetoric is similar although without the potty mouth of Antiwar.
#93
Alaska Paul, I don't know about you, but I don't believe I qualify as degenerate....there are still too many things my husband has to explain to me ;-)
Joking aside, I don't agree that West, as such, is degenerate, although certain countries and subcultures qualify. If the West truly were degenerate, a terror campaign would be unnecessary -- time alone would suffice for it to fall under its own weight.
No, they are angry because they are the Chosen of the True Faith, and those uppity unbelievers are wealthier, healthier and happier, and winning the war Allah is supposed to ensure they win -- not the way Things Are Supposed To Be (especially wealthier! and, of course, winning the war).
#95
"the mouthings do have the same cadence count."
along with the same mouth-breathing
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 19:57 Comments ||
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#96
#87 In my observation (admittedly incomplete) there really isnt much hope for Islam other than a near extinguishment of it to the point where it can be reformed by a much smaller and more concentrated set of practicioners who are broken free from the shackles of fundamentalism and Arabism.
The odd thing is that the collision with the modern secular world is tearing Islam to pieces since it is fundamentally incompatable. And that, oddly enough, will eventually lead to the conditions for a reformation, if the current militantism in Shi'a Iran, the fundamentalist Madrassa hate factories in Pakistan, and the Wahabbist Sunni Fascists can be pushed out of existence or at least into irrelevance (and exposed as the political, not religious, movement that they are).
Old Spook, I did my best to get some jabs in early and often, but your own prognostications are among some of the best thought out and most likely to occur, aside from flat-out nuclear anihilation. Thank you for taking the time to share them. I, for one, really appreciate it.
Gentle, when you get a chance, let us know how many synagogues there are in the Emirates, all right? Here's some of the hogwash from (TGA's link) the Zayed University website:
Arab Jews better off under Islamic rule Abu Dhabi |By A Staff Reporter | 20-06-2002
A two-day symposium in the capital has concluded that Arab Jews have enjoyed greater fundamental rights and freedom under Arab Islamic rule than under Israeli Zionist regimes.
Participants of a symposium on The Killing of Jews in The Arab World, held at the Zayed Centre for Genocide Coordination and Follow-Up, said in their final communique that Arab Jews have always been denied their fundamental rights and freedom under Israeli regimes ...
The participants also referred to the peaceful co-existence of Muslims and Jews in Arab Muslim countries, where Jews are treated equally and enjoy their fundamental rights and freedom, which they cannot under Israeli regimes.
EMPHASIS ADDED
Does anyone besides rabid anti-Semites actually belive this unadulterated hogwash? Gentle, how can anybody call an institution that churns out such vile filth a "school?" I pity you.
THE Moro Islamic Liberation Front should thoroughly account for their weapons and members to make it easier to implement the ongoing truce with the government, National Security Adviser Norbeto Gonzales told The Manila Times.
I'm sure they'll get right on it.
In a roundtable discussion with The Times on Thursday, Gonzales said he had already informed the government during the meeting of the Cabinet Oversight Committee on Internal Security last week on the importance of having a comprehensive list of MILF weapons and members. "Right now we can say that the cease-fire with the MILF is really holding and it's a good thing for the peace process. The setting up of the joint monitoring team has done good things in preventing unnecessary confrontation between our soldiers and the MILF," Gonzales said.
It's also preventing necessary confrontation, G.
A strict inventory of MILF weapons would help the police and military establish which of these are being used for criminal activities by wayward MILF fighters.
We'll take "all of them" for $200, Alex.
More so, the government should be provided a list of all MILF members for counter-checking purposes. "I already asked Malaysia to be the third party just in case the MILF doesn't trust the government with such a list of their weapons and members and Malaysia said they are open to the idea," Gonzales said. "We have to know all the members of the MILF so that we can check if ever we arrest people engaged in criminal activities. The government must know whether these people are real MILF members or not."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/15/2004 12:16:39 AM ||
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#1
The Philippines are simply not serious about the war on terror (or any other war, for that matter). That is why we should withdraw all troops as part of the force realignment.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 9:15 Comments ||
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#2
OK, now Dan D. has a color?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 9:24 Comments ||
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#6
That's "The Right Honorable MISTER Fred", to you, Gentle.
Perhaps you need to pay more attention in English class, and leanr our forms of address properly.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
08/15/2004 11:23 Comments ||
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#7
I'll say it before she does, Carl, Preview is my friend.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 11:35 Comments ||
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#8
The Right Honorable Hiz Excellency Owner of this Blog Watch Your Manners Troll or You End up In the Sinktrap Fred to you sir, madam, or the third sex.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/15/2004 14:27 Comments ||
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#9
Did you know cyan was invented by an Arab?
Yes, indeedy, magenta also. Yelo was invented by our friends the Egyptians.
K of course was invented by the Great Satan.
Next time, 4 color process and its Syrian fear vomit anticedants.
#2
Anyone doubt the the IDF has cruise missles that can hit any population center in Iran with a nuclear warhead? These Mulahs are truly farking insane.
By Paul Hughes Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:30 AM ET TEHRAN (Reuters) - A senior Iranian military official said Sunday Israel and the United States would not dare attack Iran since it could strike back anywhere in Israel with its latest missiles, news agencies reported. Iranian officials have made a point of highlighting the Islamic state's military capabilities in recent weeks in response to some media reports that Israeli or U.S. warplanes could try to destroy Iranian nuclear facilities in air strikes. Iran last week said it carried out a successful test firing of an upgraded version of its Shahab-3 medium-range ballistic missile. Military experts said the unmodified Shahab-3 was already capable of striking Israel or U.S. bases in the Gulf. "The entire Zionist territory, including its nuclear facilities and atomic arsenal, are currently within range of Iran's advanced missiles," the ISNA students news agency quoted Yadollah Javani, head of the Revolutionary Guards political bureau, as saying. The mullahs seem to forget that they too are within range of Israeli missiles. What's more, the Israeli vehicles carry significantly more destructive payloads than anything Iran can muster.
"Therefore, neither the Zionist regime nor America will carry out its threats" against Iran, he said. An attack on Iran "could only be carried out by angry or stupid people. For that reason, officials of the Islamic Republic must always be prepared to counter possible military threats," Javani said in a statement, ISNA reported. And precisely how does Iran intend to retaliate against America if it opts for destroying Iran's nuclear weapons program? Continued on Page 49
#2
wouldn't be surprised if we have several anti-missile batteries just inside the Iraq-Iran borders as well.... boost phase radar acquisition?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 17:57 Comments ||
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#3
Perhaps I'm being ignorant, but when Israel's anti-missile missiles knock Iran's missiles out of the air, won't they land on brotherly Arab territory? Or, if they explode Iran's in mid-air, won't the fall-out again land on Arab territory?
#4
Very possibly Iraq. Wonder how we would treat an incursion of Iraqi airspace by Iranian vehicles. That's why the mullahs are all turban no crude.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 18:45 Comments ||
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#5
Eh, The last time I checked we have missiles that can hit anywhere in the world, and we have a lot more of them than the uptight mullahs in Tehran.
Posted by: Douglas De Bono ||
08/15/2004 22:18 Comments ||
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#6
A senior Iranian military official said Sunday Israel and the United States would not dare attack Iran since it could strike back anywhere in Israel with its latest missiles, news agencies reported.
Go ahead, attack Israel, and you'll rue the day the idea ever popped into your pointy little heads.
#7
'it could strike back anywhere in Israel with its latest missiles'
Well what it means is they can fire them in the general vacinity of Israel but they aint got a clue where they will land ..
Thanks to Old Patriot from the link. Good weekend reading. I'm putting most of it on Page 71 in the interest of conserving space. I was going to comment on it, but I don't think it needs any elaboration at all... A View from the Eye of the Storm Talk delivered by Haim Harari at a meeting of the International Advisory Board of a large multi-national corporation, April, 2004.
As you know, I usually provide the scientific and technological "entertainment" in our meetings, but, on this occasion, our Chairman suggested that I present my own personal view on events in the part of the world from which I come. I have never been and I will never be a Government official and I have no privileged information. My perspective is entirely based on what I see, on what I read and on the fact that my family has lived in this region for almost 200 years. You may regard my views as those of the proverbial taxi driver, which you are supposed to question, when you visit a country.
I could have shared with you some fascinating facts and some personal thoughts about the Israeli-Arab conflict. However, I will touch upon it only in passing. I prefer to devote most of my remarks to the broader picture of the region and its place in world events. I refer to the entire area between Pakistan and Morocco, which is predominantly Arab, predominantly Moslem, but includes many non-Arab and also significant non-Moslem minorities.
Why do I put aside Israel and its own immediate neighborhood? Because Israel and any problems related to it, in spite of what you might read or hear in the world media, is not the central issue, and has never been the central issue in the upheaval in the region. Yes, there is a 100 year-old Israeli-Arab conflict, but it is not where the main show is. The millions who died in the Iran-Iraq war had nothing to do with Israel. The mass murder happening right now in Sudan, where the Arab Moslem regime is massacring its black Christian citizens, has nothing to do with Israel. The frequent reports from Algeria about the murders of hundreds of civilian in one village or another by other Algerians have nothing to do with Israel. Saddam Hussein did not invade Kuwait, endangered Saudi Arabia and butchered his own people because of Israel. Egypt did not use poison gas against Yemen in the 60's because of Israel. Assad the Father did not kill tens of thousands of his own citizens in one week in El Hamma in Syria because of Israel. The Taliban control of Afghanistan and the civil war there had nothing to do with Israel. The Libyan blowing up of the Pan-Am flight had nothing to do with Israel, and I could go on and on and on.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred ||
08/15/2004 5:35:49 PM ||
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#1
He sure is correct about the suicide bombers.Kashmir has been a proving ground of sorts for years.
It was a gathering of terrorism's elite, and they slipped silently into Pakistan from all over the world in order to attend. From England came Abu Issa al-Hindi, an Indian convert to radical Islam who specializes in surveillance. From an unknown hideout came Adnan el-Shukrijumah, an accomplished Arab Guyanese bombmaker and commercial pilot. And from Queens in New York City came Mohammed Junaid Babar, a Pakistani American who arrived with cash, sleeping bags, ponchos, waterproof socks and other supplies for the mountain-bound jihadis. The March 2004 terrorist summit in the lawless province of Waziristan, described to TIME by Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf last week and expounded on by U.S. officials, has become a subject of obsession for authorities in both countries. "The personalities involved, the operations, the fact that a major explosives expert came here and went back," Musharraf said, "all this was extremely significant."
Although some summit participants have been arrested, others are still at large and are considered very dangerous. At least two are believed to have done some of the surveillance of targets in New York City and elsewhere that authorities found out about last month. Some U.S. officials fear that the meeting may have been a pivotal planning session, much the way a 2000 meeting in Kuala Lumpur was for the 9/11 attacks. "This was a meeting of a bunch of cold-blooded killers who are very skilled at what they do and have an intense desire to inflict an awful lot of pain and suffering on America," says an official familiar with the summit. A senior counterterrorism official said analysts are scrutinizing the recent pattern of enemy activity against timelines of previous attacks. This, he said, has contributed to the worry that at least some members of a strike team are already in the U.S.
Musharraf told TIME that the discovery of the March meeting has exposed the "second string" leadership of al-Qaeda. Summiteer Mohammed Babar, 29, was arrested in Queens in April, shortly after returning from Pakistan. He has been charged with trying to buy materials to make bombs for use in attacks in Britain. Al-Hindi, who is in his mid-30s, is also in custody, in England, having been picked up two weeks ago. U.S. officials say he was in e-mail contact with Mohammed Naeem Noor Khan, 29, the Pakistani techie whose computer contained much of the material about staging attacks with helicopters and limousinesas first reported in TIMEthat led to the decision by U.S. officials two weeks ago to raise the alert level at financial institutions in New York, New Jersey and Washington. Al-Hindi had been sent to the U.S. to case economic and "Jewish" targets in New York City, the 9/11 commission stated in its report last month. He also passed along several contacts in the U.S. to senior al-Qaeda leaders in case they "needed help," the commission reported.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/15/2004 3:25:36 PM ||
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Dan didn't you name some of the other attendees over at RC?
Posted by: Robert Stevens ||
08/15/2004 23:55 Comments ||
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DOHA, Qatar, Sept 13 [2001]
Renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks against civilians in the U.S. Tuesday and encouraged Muslims to donate blood to the victims of the attack. In response to the bloody attack against civilians in the U.S., Sheikh Yusuf issued a statement Wednesday saying that:
"Our hearts bleed for the attacks that has targeted the World Trade Center [WTC], as well as other institutions in the United States despite our strong oppositions to the American biased policy towards Israel on the military, political and economic fronts.
"Islam, the religion of tolerance, holds the human soul in high esteem, and considers the attack against innocent human beings a grave sin, this is backed by the Qur'anic verse which reads:
Who so ever kills a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and who so ever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind," (Al-Ma'dah:32).
"The Prophet, PBUH, said, 'A believer remains within the scope of his religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally',".
Haphazard killing where the rough is taken with the smooth and where innocents are killed along with wrongdoers is totally forbidden in Islam. No one, as far as Islam is concerned, is held responsible for another's actions. Upon seeing a woman killed in the battlefield, the Prophet, PBUH, denied the act and said: "That woman shouldn't have been killed anyway!".
Even in times of war, Muslims are not allowed to kill anybody save the one who is indulged in face-to-face confrontation with them. They are not allowed to kill women, old persons, children, or even a monk in his religious seclusion. That is why killing hundreds of helpless civilians who have nothing to do with the decision-making process, such as the victims of the latest explosions in America, is a heinous crime in Islam. The Prophet, PBUH, stated that a woman was qualified to enter Hell because of the cat she locked up to death.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Gentle ||
08/15/2004 9:54:05 AM ||
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That's one, Gentle. What about all the other 999 "holy men" who say "off with their heads"?
#2
Gentle, Qaradawi's stance against terrorism rings rather hollow when one considers that he still advocates the mass murders being perpetrated in Israel by the Palestinians. His condoning of wife beating is also quite vile. What are your own positions on these two issues?
Pakistan government is seriously considering a proposal to go after jihadi groups associated with the country's mainstream religious parties, sources said.
I'll believe it when I see it...
High on this list is Jamaat-e-Islami, Pakistan's most organized religious party with considerable support among the educated middle class and lower-middle class. "I will not be surprised if the military action against the jihadi cadres of various religious parties starts soon," said Farooq Sattar, the parliamentary leader of the Muttaheda Qaumi Movement (MQM), an ethnic party now in the ruling coalition in Pakistan. Some MQM members are in senior positions in the government, including the federal Cabinet. "Those who harm the basic interests of the state should be crushed," said Sattar whose party is considered a bitter political rival of Jamaat-e-Islami. Founded in British India before the creation of Pakistan, the Jamaat supported fundamentalist Afghan leader Gulbadin Hekmatyar during the 10-year war against the Soviets from 1979. When the Taleban took charge of Afghanistan in 1996, the Jamaat was marginalized as it did not have good relations with the militia. The Taleban movement was led by clerics who studied at Muslim seminaries while the Jamaat is dominated by those who studied at secular schools but later became avowed Muslims and are now known as Islamists. The Taleban leaders, who believed that the leadership belongs to the clerics, looked down upon the Jamaat people as newcomers to their cause.
By Ghafar Ali
The interior minister's claim that the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) has links with Al Qaeda is baseless, said NWFP Chief Minister Akram Khan Durrani while speaking to journalists after the Independence Day flag hoisting ceremony on Saturday.
"Lies! All lies!"
He demanded the "removal" of Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat and asked the central government to appoint a "responsible person" in his place.
"Somebody who doesn't make reckless comments about elephants in living rooms..."
Mr Durrani said that the interior minister was known to change his statements "every now and then" which showed that he was "not a serious person" and "not fit to hold an important position" in the federal government. "First he said that forces were closing in on Osama bin Laden and then he contradicted himself the very next day," said Mr Durrani.
Religious and Jihadi organisations held rallies and conferences in the city to celebrate Independence Day on Saturday. Shabab-e-Milli, Jamiat Talab-e-Arabia and Jamaat-ud-Daawa (JD) held meetings where speakers condemned the military establishment for taking over the country. They held that the nation was still in search of independence as people were deprived of their basic rights in the country. Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) President Qazi Hussain Ahmed and Hizbul Mujahideen commander Syed Salahuddin were the chief guests at a Shuhada-e-Islam convention, organised by the Jamiat Talab-e-Arabia at Mansoora Auditorium. "This day demands that the nation get rid of the British-trained establishment," Mr Ahmed said.
"Give us a Soddy-trained establishment!"
He accused the American intelligence agencies of interfering in the country's affairs. Mr Salahuddin said Kashmiris were fighting to join Pakistan and it would be a pity if Pakistan retreated from its stance on Kashmir in talks with India. He said the freedom struggle in Held Kashmir was indigenous and it was not started at the behest of external forces. "We cannot stop it until we get independence," he said. Addressing the Shabab-e-Milli convention, Mr Ahmed urged youths to help the poor. Jamaat-e-Islami Niab Ameer Hafiz Muhammad Adrees presided over the flag hoisting ceremony at Mansoora. "This is the only country in the world which was established in the name of Islam after the Islamic state of Medina," he said.
"And just look how well it works!"
He said the rulers were American puppets, but the MMA would get rid of the American yokes with the help of the masses. JI General Secretary Syed Manawwar Hassan, Maulana Abdul Malik, National Labour Federation chief Mirajuddin Khan also spoke on the occasion. Markazi Jamiat Ahle Hadith chief Senator Sajid Mir, who is in Europe, sent a message from Birmingham. He said that Pakistanis did not fight to gain independence from Britain to become army slaves.
Posted by: Robert Stevens ||
08/15/2004 2:08:45 PM ||
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#3
Tater has volunteered to cooperate with field testing. Just hope the arsenals can get some to the field before he blleds his last drop.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 12:01 Comments ||
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#4
This has been around for quite a while - it was originally part of the weapons system that is based on the XM-8.
Take a look at that thing - looks like the M41 Pulse Rifle from the movie Aliens.
Nice thing is the laser can range it, then the round will burst and frag inside the building or shelter. Combine that with accurate sniper fire, and the new "non-lethal" suppressive weapons, the UCAVs and recon-UAVS - lets just say that "guerilla" forces will not have anyplace to hide.
#5
On the surface this sounds good, and it does have advantages. However, I can forsee a major problem: not identifying a target before engaging it. This can drive "collateral casualties" through the roof, or severely limits where you can use such rounds.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 13:11 Comments ||
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#7
Anonymoose--That doesn't sound like a problem unique to this ammunition. Could you clarify if I'm missing something in your statement?
Posted by: Dar ||
08/15/2004 13:55 Comments ||
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#8
"...a major problem: not identifying a target before engaging it."
That's what UAVs are for.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
08/15/2004 14:13 Comments ||
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#9
This does get a bit niggling, but ammunition that conforms to the Geneva Convention is supposed to be both "wounding", not "killing" ammunition, and most definitely has rules for its use--mostly to protect non-combattants. If you can't see what you are shooting at, you can't say if it is a combatant or not.
Okay, so much for the technicalities. Practically speaking, *the majority* of what we are doing in Iraq is not "kill the enemy" stuff, but "hearts and minds" stuff. And while it is annoying, this means that the typical serviceman is *oriented* to *not* killing non-combatants.
If you start issuing them increasingly lethal weapons in increasingly non-hostile situations, you are asking for trouble. This is why so much emphasis has been put on "non-lethal means", and even backing off instead of having an emotionally gratifying slaughter.
In a way, it is the same situation of a US Marine guarding an embassy with a hostile crowd outside. He may have an M16 with ball ammunition, but even if they bust in he may prefer to wire a door shut with a coat hangar, as silly as it seems, for the "greater good."
One of our biggest goals in Iraq right now is to turn a military operation into a police operation, re-defining the enemy from "soldiers" into "criminals". Because at this time, it is better for all concerned if they are arrested rather than gunned down.
Again, not very emotionally gratifying, but very practical, for this situation.
Nuanced military operations of this type are done not because we are weak, but because we are very, very strong, and experienced.
#10
Well, Anonymoose, that's why the XM26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System (12-gauge) is going to be good; it's XM8-compatible and would allow the wielder to deliver five shots per magazine of nonlethal shells.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
08/15/2004 16:31 Comments ||
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#11
History Chanel and Discovery have talked about this munition.It is supposed to be part of the CIWS combat arms system.They showed it being fired threw a window and exploding in the room.
#12
This ammo should make a humane alternative to using a TOW round to knock down a structure on top of a sniper. Collateral damage will decrease because it is much more precise than any type of propelled grenade. Remember too that the rounds will be used by American troops who are unlikely to use the new toy for reconnaissance by fire of a school playground.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/15/2004 17:06 Comments ||
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The head of Iraq's delayed National Conference said Saturday that the violence raging in Shiite areas of the country would not affect the crucial gathering due to start the next day.
"This is a perfect time for the conference to discuss the current problems and find solutions," Fuad Masoum told journalists.
The gathering of 1,300 delegates will help elect a 100-member national assembly that is to shepherd the country to its first democratic elections, scheduled for the end of January.
The conference was to have been held by the end of July under a law passed by the outgoing U.S. occupation authority, but many key factions said they would boycott the meeting and some of the country's multiethnic provinces had difficulty in choosing slates of delegates.
Conference organizers delayed the meeting at the request of the United Nations, which wanted to try to persuade more factions to participate.
However, the followers of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who are currently fighting U.S. and Iraqi forces in the southern city of Najaf, have said they would still boycott the meeting.
The Association of Muslim Scholars, a Sunni religious group with links to insurgents, also said it would not attend because of the interim government's reliance on the U.S.-led coalition.
Still, 70 groups have agreed to participate, Masoum said.
"The movements that boycott this conference are free to do that, but that doesn't cause the conference to lose its legitimacy," he said.
In a country beset by a nearly 16-month violent insurgency, the conference will be a major target for angry militants.
The gathering will take place within the Green Zone, a restricted area in Baghdad home to the Iraqi government and the U.S. and British embassies. Visiting delegates will stay in Baghdad, either in hotels or with relatives.
On Saturday Interior Minister Falah Hassan al-Naqib announced a curfew for the city center to begin at 8:00a.m. and end 4:00p.m. for each day of the conference.
Al-Sadr's uprising has spread to other Shiite strongholds in Iraq, exacerbating an already volatile security environment. But delegates coming to Baghdad from different corners of the country said they would not be deterred by the unraveling security situation.
"Sure, we will take part in the conference, regardless of the current security problems," said Khalid al-Nueimi from the finance ministry in the northern city of Mosul.
Jamal Benomar, the U.N. official overseeing preparations, said he was satisfied with the expected turnout, an improvement from the last group of delegates.
"There will be people from all constituencies, for sure," he said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/15/2004 2:38:10 AM ||
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#2
Seems good to me. 100 of 1300 will learn that walking out in a huff will do not good and the other 1200 will go on without them. If the conflict within the Conference is resolved peacefully it will be very good.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 11:28 Comments ||
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#4
If I were an editor the quote: Conference organizers delayed the meeting at the request of the United Nations, which wanted to try to persuade more factions to participate.
would read:
Conference organizers delayed the meeting at the request of the United Nations, from Malta, which wanted to try to persuade more factions to participate.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
08/15/2004 17:24 Comments ||
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Arab militiamen who have brought terror to western Sudan are being trained at secret camps to launch a campaign of guerrilla warfare if British troops or other foreign "infidels" are deployed on a peacekeeping operation. The military instruction from Sudanese army officers is part of Khartoum's clandestine efforts to integrate the Janjaweed militia into paramilitary security forces in Darfur. Camel-riding fighters have boasted to local people that they are preparing to fight any "invaders" sent to restore order to a region where an estimated 50,000 black Africans have been killed and more than one million forced from their homes in a year-long frenzy of ethnic cleansing. "They say that they will fight the infidels just as the mujahideen in Iraq are doing. Iraq is their inspiration," said a resident of Kass, a south Darfur market town surrounded by dozens of abandoned and burnt "ghost" villages after a year of Janjaweed attacks.
Sadr being such an inspiration and all.
The militia have kept a lower profile in recent days as international attention focused on Darfur, but local African tribesmen insist that many of the Arab herders leading camel trains across the scrub and heading into Nyala and Kass for the weekly livestock markets took part in the rampages. The existence of the Janjaweed training camps in remote corners of Darfur was confirmed to The Telegraph by a prominent politician from his own contacts within the regime. Jaffer Monro is an MP for the ruling National Congress in the one-party state, but he took the risk of breaking ranks with the government to condemn events in his home province. "The Janjaweed are being given proper military training ready for a further escalation in the conflict," said Mr Monro, a member of the parliament's human rights committee, who comes from the Fur tribe. "They are being trained by the government authorities in case foreign troops are sent here."
They've been trained all along, it seems.
Two senior figures from the United Nations peacekeeping operation visited the region last week to assess options as the August 30 Security Council deadline for Khartoum to rein in the Janjaweed or face sanctions approaches. Tony Blair has said that Britain would consider sending troops to Darfur as part of an international mission to restore security. Gen Sir Mike Jackson, the chief of general staff, indicated that up to 5,000 British troops could be made available. Khartoum has flatly rejected calls for international intervention, particularly by Western countries, and has repeatedly claimed through the state media that Britain is leading efforts to turn Sudan into "another Iraq". President Omar al-Bashir, who declared "Long live the mujahideen" at a meeting of Janjaweed fighters in Nyala in May, intensified the anti-British rhetoric in a speech on Thursday. "There is an agenda to seek petrol and gold in the region," he said, singling out Britain as the old colonial power for particular opprobrium.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/15/2004 2:58:56 AM ||
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#1
It's rather silly to refer to them as "guerillas" when they are sponsored, trained, clothed, and prolly paid by the Govt. Someone should send them a proper glossary so they can get it right.
This situation is completely insane. Every news story is chock full of absurdities ranging from roaring mice who will strike down the infidels if they dare intervene to goofy claims that intervention would have something to do with "their" oil. It's well past time for the West, and yep I include America, to get frisky with these cretins -- and Wipe. Them. Out.
The reporting is (How should I put it?) hand-wringing and ineffectual whining, for the most part. This piece has more detail than most - good catch, Dan - and Thx!
#5
The reporting is (How should I put it?) hand-wringing and ineffectual whining, for the most part.
Of course it is. That hand-wringing then becomes mild elation when the Western troops arrive on Monday, growing dissatisfaction when they don't tame the thugs by Thursday, followed by sheer panic and cries of 'quagmire' after three more days have passed.
Lastly comes the 'serious analysis', calls for someone to blame, and the I-told-you-so's.
Then it's a quick drink and off to the next chamber pot on the world scene...
#6
Message to the Moose-Limbs is we wanted your gold or oil we would already have it. You would not last a day if taking your oil or gold was our motive. Your mindset even coupled with modern weapons is no match for the west if it decides open full out war is needed. Your ashes would be blown away in the desert wind and you would be forgotten rather quickly by the west. Grow up or be ground into the dust at the bottom of the drawers of history.
Hindus and Muslims torched houses and shops in a fresh bout of religious clash in riot-scarred Gujarat on Sunday after a row over parking of vehicles, a police officer said. The clashes erupted in Petlad town after a group of Hindus objected to Muslims parking their motorised rickshaws in one part of the town, police superintendent B.H.Jabalia said. Police fired warning shots in the air and used tear gas to break up the clashes, he said. An indefinite curfew has been imposed on the town which is 80 km south of Ahmedabad.
Posted by: TS(vice girl) ||
08/15/2004 10:37:11 AM ||
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#1
And you thought parking in Boston or NYC was bad...
#3
Riots over parking??? Hey, I thought only us Philadelphians did that!
Posted by: Dave D. ||
08/15/2004 12:45 Comments ||
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#4
Hey, look at the bright side. Nobody was reported killed. I think that Muslims and Hindus are starting to communicate. Hey, it's a start....Look on the sunny side... Anyone out there????
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/15/2004 12:54 Comments ||
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#5
Read the fine print, folks. All this fighting was about the Jewish parking valet. [rimshot]
Some 8,000 Palestinians held in crowded Israeli jails plan to launch a mass hunger strike Sunday to demand improved detention conditions despite a warning from Israeli authorities that the action will be futile, Palestinian officials said. Actually, given enough time, this could prove quite useful. Some 8,000 dead Palestinian suspects could prove quite a boon.
An official with a prisoner defense group based in Bethlehem, Abu Mohammed, said Saturday that virtually all 8,000 Palestinians serving prison terms, awaiting trial or in "administrative detention" -- not yet charged -- will join the action. But Israeli Internal Security Minister Tzahi Hanegbi was quoted by public radio as saying: "We will concede nothing. From my point of view they can continue their movement to the death." Smart man, that Minister Tzahi. Never negotiate when you hold the winning hand.
He added: "All the terrorists' demands are aimed in fact at making it easier to organize attacks in the prisons." For his part, Israeli prison commissioner Yaakov Ganot told reporters that if the movement went ahead, the prisoners "will lose all their privileges, family visits will be canceled and the prisoners will be deprived of television and radio." The inmates, including around 600 serving life sentences, say they will take only liquids and have threatened to "martyr themselves" if their demands are not met. Martyr away, you maggots. Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Zenster ||
08/15/2004 2:24:01 AM ||
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#1
Chapter LXXXIV in the handbook on Actions and Consequences. They must be running out of ammo, worker ants, and ideas over in Ramallah when all the Paleos have are prison issues to push on their agenda. The Paleos have not bottomed out yet. They are still digging.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/15/2004 3:56 Comments ||
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#2
This reminds me of another time in Northern Ireland, when all the IRA Provos were getting jugged. The only thing that they could do after a while was to spread feces on the cell walls and have hunger strikes, like the Bobby Sands deal in 1981, where he eventually died.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/15/2004 4:00 Comments ||
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#3
Some 8,000 Palestinians held in crowded Israeli jails plan to launch a mass hunger strike Sunday to demand improved detention conditions despite a warning from Israeli authorities that the action will be futile, Palestinian officials said.
The purpose of a prison is NOT to make its occupants' existence a piece of cake. End of story.
#4
Beside the fact that most of the people in jail have done NOTHING wrong, but are just held on suspicion, Do you realize that prisons are for rehabilitation, not punishment?
These men (and the Palestinian people under the leadership, such as it is, of Yasir Arafat and the PLO) are at war with Israel. They do not accept that Israel even exists as a nation, especially as a Jewish nation. The prisons, therefore, are detention centers for those who were caught planning or attempting attacks on Israeli citizens, both Jews and Arabs. The prisoners are not there for rehabilitation.
The reason conditions are so crowded is because so many are determined to murder as many Jews as possible, particularly women and children. Arab-Israelis who commit crimes are kept in regular, rehabilitative prisons. Palestinian Arabs who commit crimes rule the streets of the West Bank and Gaza.
Surely someone who names herself "Gentle" does not condone the murder of a mother reading bedtime stories to her babies, and the babies with her? Knifing a pregnant woman in the belly before cutting her throat? Those are the men complaining that conditions are overcrowded. You will pardon me that I am not sympathetic.
#7
I live in the Emirates.
The condition of the jails is really good.
I mean they are given a lot of freedom.
They have just about everything they need, except absolute freedom.
If you want the truth most of those in jail are prostitutes.
Murderers and forgers are much less.
and YES there are locals there.
I've studied about jails, and have visited one.
I still have the report I wrote, if you're interested.
#12
Yes, so what?
No thanks. I like my life just the way it is.
At least my parents don't turm me out of the house 'coz I'm 18, like a lot of people do in America.
#13
'coz? methinks you are nowhere near the emirates, troll
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 9:02 Comments ||
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#14
Deah!
I study in English.
Its my second language, though its nowhere as wonderful as Arabic. What do you expect?
Don't worry, I'm not one of those who talk English all the time, only when I need it.
You must have read "Anne of green Gables". You could get a lot out of it.
#16
Gentle is very proud of the religious freedom of the UAE (where just one-quarter of the residents are citizens; it's very curious, isn't it?). This would not apply to Jews, but that's no problem because there aren't any. Everyone else gets to pay jizya. That's her definition of religious freedom--Muslims don't outright kill everyone who isn't Muslim. And oh yeah, the Shi'a are just a cult. I don't know what that means for their religious freedom.
As far as intellectual freedom goes, Gentle has already told us that the UAE blocks websites they don't like.
Muslims in the West and Israel should of course be free to do whatever they want. Prisoners in Israel have by definition done nothing wrong, as long as they're Muslims, even though they revel in Jewkilling and would be quick to establish, at best, UAE "religious toleration."
Remember--the West cannot do anything to defend itself without being racist, but UAE apartheid is "religious freedom."
#17
Gentle (interesting choice of names for a member of a religion that is clearly the greatest instigator of UNgentle behavior in the world today):
I don't know where you get your ideas about turning children out of the house at 18 --
In fact, children WANT to get out of the house because they want to become productive members of society, to form their own thoughts and live their own lives.
As far as conditions in prisons in Israel vs. prisons in the Muslim world, well, I think most Muslims would choose Israel. Furthermore, I shudder to think of the treatment a Jew would get in a Muslim prison (for as long as he is alive, which I should think would be measured in days, not months or years).
#18
Die a slow painful bloated death you genocidal pali slims. Starve away. Sh!t. If you had any b@lls at all, you would set yourselves on fire while sitting still in place. We promise not to let our women piss on your ashes. That's a job for dogs, (female of course).
Call their bluff - 8,000 of them not eating? yeah, right. They'll end up saying they're going to limit it to 50-100 pawns in the name of humanity. And then blame it on the Jooos.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
08/15/2004 11:58 Comments ||
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#20
They'll be in for a hard lesson when they realize that nobody outside of Palestine gives a shit if they live or starve to death. If this follows the "defiant jihadi" timetable, I'd give it 2 days. Less if they get really hungry.
#21
hmmmm 8000 meals saved? Buy a new Caterpillar D-9
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 12:05 Comments ||
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#22
At least my parents don't turm me out of the house 'coz I'm 18, like a lot of people do in America.
That's the one. I don't think our Gentle plans to marry... perhaps that's a good thing. I am perhaps wrong on this gal, perhaps she really is trying to do an Austin. That would be a way to validate an otherwise captive life.
Posted by: Abu MacShipman ||
08/15/2004 12:20 Comments ||
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Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 12:26 Comments ||
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#25
At least my parents don't turm me out of the house 'coz I'm 18, like a lot of people do in America.
That's the funniest thing I've read in a while. I had to wait until I was 18. Gentle, you are one misinformed soul. And you have the nerve to make sweeping generalizations about us?
First of all, all languages provide a view of the world not available in any other.
In the case of English, the desire to communicate effectively. Arabic is poetic and full of quotes to show piety and erudition. German vocabulary is, I think, the basis for its Romantic outlook as well as those long smashed-together words resulting from the national desire to demonstrate intelligence by parading facts rather than presenting conclusions (our beloved TGA excepted, of course). And certain words are so much stronger in one language rather than another: my German-born daughter used the English "yes", but always the German "nein", which is soooo much more effective out of the mouth of a toddler. My husband still says, "Shwaiya, shwaiya" (slowly, slowly) from his time in Egypt.
Second, you keep insisting that yours is the only real Islam. The West has had its own religious wars, and in general learned to accept that others hold views different from our own, whoever "Us" may be. Outside of your cozy little corner of the world, it is both courtesy and wisdom to accept this, and move on to functioning within this unchangable reality.
Third, thus far you have insisted on parroting what you've been taught about the outside world (Shia are a cult; Americans kicked out of the house at 18) instead of responding thoughtfully to what you find here. Rantburg would be happy to have another local correspondent to add to the collection, but only if you bring something worthwhile to the table. Your current homework assignment is to provide a thoughtful and logical answer to the points raised in posts #5, 16, 17 and 20; extra credit for 1. thoughts on why most Emirate prisoners are prostitutes, but not their customers, and 2. an exploration of why Rantburgers feel no sympathy for the Palestinian situation (hint: "because they are prejudiced" is not acceptable).
#29
How is this any different than a spoiled brat threatening somebody, not related to them, that they will "hold their breath until they turn blue if the don't get their way"?
#30
Hey everyone, gentle, half assed pete, let's get the luuuuuuuuuve back. Here, everyone have a beer on me. Woops! Bad idea. Culturally insensitive of me....maybe I will just leave now...bye....
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/15/2004 14:22 Comments ||
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#31
Gentle, I have one very serious question for you. It is not meant to be mean or cause ridicule of any sort.
How many synagogues are there in the Emirates?
I would appreciate you taking the time to respond, thank you.
hmmmm 8000 meals saved? Buy a new Caterpillar D-9
And the award for Most Snarky Commentator goes to ...
#38
Here ya go, Shipman. I have some Guinness stout tinnies with the foamer thingy in the can left over from last night's suaree. Best draft in a can I've tasted since draft out of St. Jame's Gate, Dublin. A full meal in al-u-Mineum.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
08/15/2004 15:43 Comments ||
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#40
It was not without reason that Mark Twain praised Anne of Green Gables as the "dearest, and most lovable child in fiction since the immortal Alice."
To this very day, Alice in Wonderland remains solid adult reading as does Anne of Green Gables. One quote by L.M. Montgomery stands out even now and might find suitable application as regards a certain religion so widely discussed at these forums:
#43
TGA, Just clicked on your link. It is amazing how the Muslim Arabs (like the French) know what is best for their (former) Jews... certainly much better than those poor, ignorant creatures are capable of understanding for themselves. Reminds me of a certain type of old world gentleman who believes that women are incapable of functioning without a man to tell them what to do.
#44
Actually he probably does mean Tarkington as in Seventeen, the novel, not the magazine. Hoosiers tend to get carried away about him. Don't give Schofield the chance to get on the James Whitcomb Riley.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/15/2004 18:40 Comments ||
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#45
[Homer] SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP! [/Homer]
Hokey smokes, TGA! Do these f&%kwits actually believe this stuff?
A two-day symposium in the capital has concluded that Arab Jews have enjoyed greater fundamental rights and freedom under Arab Islamic rule than under Israeli Zionist regimes.
Participants of a symposium on The Killing of Jews in The Arab World, held at the Zayed Centre for Genocide Coordination and Follow-Up, said in their final communique that Arab Jews have always been denied their fundamental rights and freedom under Israeli regimes ...
The participants also referred to the peaceful co-existence of Muslims and Jews in Arab Muslim countries, where Jews are treated equally and enjoy their fundamental rights and freedom, which they cannot under Israeli regimes.
Talk about breathing your own exhaust! These monster raving loonies are out to lunch. Soviet era propaganda writers can't hold a candle to this sort of stuff. Who in hell believes any of this garbage besides anti-Semites?
#46
Ooooh, that Tarkington! My mistake -- I forgot about the copy of Penrod in one of the upstairs bookcases, a gift from my husband's great-uncle Bill a few Xmases ago.
"For inhumane people to demand humanitarian improvements is an absurdity bordering on contempt," said Yehudit Dasberg today. Mrs. Dasberg, who has been in the forefront in the struggle against releasing terrorists from prison, adopted her two young grandchildren after their parents - Yaron and Effie Ungar - were murdered in a Hamas terror attack in June 1996.
"As far as I'm concerned," said Public Security Minister Tzachi HaNegbi on Friday, "they can starve until they die." Prison Service officials said that they did not take this literally, and would in fact have medical staff on hand to ensure that this did not happen. Government officials have said, however, that they do not plan to give in to the terrorists' demands.
The imprisoned terrorists demand the removal of the glass walls separating them from their visitors, as well as other improvements in their visiting arrangements. They also want telephones in their cells or wings, as well as the right to have cell phones, a computer in each cell, no Value Added Tax on their canteen purchases, air conditioners in their cells, no more body checks, and more.
The Prison Service responded to their refusal to take meals by taking away the televisions from their cells, canceling all visitations and sports activities, and more.
EMPHASIS ADDED
Paging Salvador Dali. This sh!t is straight out of the frickin' Twilight Zone.
I'd love to see the Israelis respond to demands for "the removal of the glass walls separating them from their visitors" by BRICKING UP THOSE VIEWING BOOTHS.
No body checks for people who are inordinately fond of bomb vests, riiiiiiight!
A pony "computer in each cell." They should consider themselves fortunate if the Israelis leash up a billy goat in the exercise yard for "tension relief."
These Palestinian morons seethe at the drop of a Hellfire hat yet expect those whom they slaughter without mercy to not even blink when idiotic and insulting demands like these are made with a straight face. I hope they all starve to f&%king death.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 19:55 Comments ||
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#49
Off topic??? Abusive comments??? To call a spade a spade is abusive?? Methinks not, sir/ma'am, whatever. muslims are filthy animals, no two ways about it.
You can delete every goddamn allusion to this fact if you want to......but it won't change the facts... muslims ARE FILTHY TRASH SCUM OF THE EARTH. muslims are descended from vomit and feces of drunkards and prostitutes.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
08/15/2004 22:46 Comments ||
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#50
"At least my parents don't turm me out of the house 'coz I'm 18, like a lot of people do in America."
You are dumber than a bag full of hammers, Gentle! LOL
Where *do* you get this stuff???
Most people's parents in the USA have to beg them to leave when they're 30 or even older...!
#51
At least my parents don't turm me out of the house 'coz I'm 18, like a lot of people do in America.
Doesn't happen with any regularity, so whoever told you this is full of crap. At 18, an individual is an adult, and can move out if they wish. No one forces them to stay or to go; that's what happens when one has F-R-E-E-D-O-M to do as they wish.
I will spare my pity for the tens of thousands of Syrians machine gunned by Assad, for the hundreds of thousands Iraquis tortured to death by Saddam, for the neraly two hundred thousand Algerians buitchered by the Saudi sponsored GIA or for the two million black Sudanese killed by the Arabs, that without the counting the raped boys or the genitally mutilated girls.
Arab arithmetic: 1 true Arab live > 100 lives of Mahgrebi Arab-speakers > 2000 Black lives.
I will spare my pity for the tens of thousands of Syrians machine gunned by Assad, for the hundreds of thousands Iraquis tortured to death by Saddam, for the neraly two hundred thousand Algerians buitchered by the Saudi sponsored GIA or for the two million black Sudanese killed by the Arabs, that without the counting the raped boys or the genitally mutilated girls.
Arab arithmetic: 1 true Arab live > 100 lives of Mahgrebi Arab-speakers > 2000 Black lives.
#54
ALL filthy muslim animals must die. Not just the ones in Israeli prisons...... EVERY GODDAMN ONE OF 'EM! No matter where they are, U.S., U.K., saudi arabia, bahrain, syria.......EVERY GODDAMN ONE OF 'EM.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
08/15/2004 12:25 Comments ||
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#55
Frank G., when you've got a cancer....you kill the whole thing, not just bits and pieces of it here and there.........
These filthy muslims are a cancer on the body of mankind. They must be destroyed! EVERY ONE OF THEM.
Posted by: Halfass Pete ||
08/15/2004 12:33 Comments ||
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More than 100 unemployed university graduates stormed a Palestinian Authority building in a Gaza Strip refugee camp Saturday, calling on the Palestinian leadership to provide them with jobs.
"We want our share of the boodle!"
The incident, which ended amazingly enough peacefully after about two hours, was the latest sign of discontent with the beleaguered Palestinian Authority. The graduates - all of them unarmed - said the authority had promised them employment and failed to live up to its obligation.
You expect Yasser to listen to you when you're unarmed?
"We have asked all those in charge and all the members of the Palestinian Legislative Council to find a solution for our situation by finding us jobs, but no one is listening to us," said Shadi Shaath, a leader of the protesters. He said the protesters left the building because they weren't prepared for a lengthy standoff, but he promised further action in the coming days if Palestinian officials don't respond. Last Thursday, dozens of homeless Palestinians, led by gunmen, stormed the governor's office in Gaza's battered Rafah refugee camp, evicting officials and charging that Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority is not helping them. The standoff ended four hours later after officials pledged to spread some dough around help the people find housing. In the past few weeks, the turmoil has trickled from Gaza to the West Bank, where a growing number of Palestinians have begun to voice criticism of Arafat's corruption-plagued regime and demand reforms.
Yummy popcorn.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/15/2004 12:45:00 AM ||
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The graduates - all of them unarmed
A Paleo protest without weapons? What's next, Berkley suddenly and mysteriously burning down with Swastika's painted all over? *Crosses "Unarmed Paleo protest of PA" off wishlist*
Posted by: Charles ||
08/15/2004 1:40 Comments ||
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BS/MS in Splodeydope...BA/MA in Seething and Religious Studies. BA/MA in Whining, and BS in Tunneling. General Ed requires 12 units of Car Swarming, with a body part recovery final exam
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/15/2004 12:19 Comments ||
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The African Union (AU) Commission said here Saturday that the pan-African organization will deploy some 154 protection forces in Darfur of Sudan on Sunday to protect AU military observers in the conflict area. El Ghssim Wane, acting head of the AU Conflict Management Center, told a press conference that the first protection forces are drawn from Rwanda, and the logistic support provided by the AU already reached Al Fashir, northern Darfur late Saturday.
The Tutsis and Hutus know a thing or two about genocide, I'm told.
Light armament, water, foods and equipment are being shipped to the area for the protection forces, he said, adding that the 154 protection forces will be assigned in six centers to protect the 123 AU military observers there.  "They are there based on the agreement reached by the Sudanese government and rebel movements," Wane said. A report from Kigali said some 150 Rwandan troops left the Rwandan capital for Dafur Saturday. Ghana, South Africa, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Kenya, Nigeria, Mozambique, Senegal and Namibia contributed the 123 military observers for the AU mission in Darfur. Wane also indicated that another 152 professional forces from Nigeria are expected to be deployed in the area on Aug. 25, 2004 for the same operation. Some 2,000 AU troops have been proposed for the Darfur mission by the Nigerian government, however, the proposal is not yet presented to the AU Peace and Security Council.
In a related development, a delegation led by AU Commissioner for Political Affairs Julia Dolly Joiner will go to Sudan on Sunday for a three-day assessment of the humanitarian situation and see how to strengthen the present AU efforts to alleviate the sufferings of the affected population.
Posted by: Steve White ||
08/15/2004 12:29:14 AM ||
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EFL ...The din is drowning the Voice of the Iraqi people. I appeal to people of the World; Please, Please, Please hear the true voice of the Iraqi people. We are facing a terrible conspiracy. The people of the South are being persecuted and massacred, not by the Americans, not by the Iraqi Army and Iraqi police. The gangs of the "Mehdi" army financed and recruited by the Iranian security forces and others, this has become amply clear, are massacring the people, right now as I am writing these lines. As one caller to the "Fayhaa" T.V. station is saying right now from Kut, for the first time in history the Wahabis, the Iranian hardliners and the Baathists [if Alaa, the writer knew, he would have added the UN, the EU and most of the Democratic Pary core] have formed and alliance against the people of Iraq and particularly against the Shiaa people
Posted by: mhw ||
08/15/2004 12:36:17 AM ||
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Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
08/15/2004 9:34 Comments ||
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another Iraqi blogger says,
"...The truth is that most Iraqis donât support Sadr and do not care what happens to him and even if he get killed, his militia which is a very unorganized crazy bunch will disperse into small gangs that kill and steal without any political ambition."
(2004-08-13) -- Iraqi Islamic theologian Muqtada al Sadr, whose Friday prayers have stirred the Muslim faithful to perform many deeds of mercy in the name of Allah, today said he would "negotiate to the last drop of blood" with Iraqi government forces who have surrounded Shia Islam's holiest shrine.
Iraqi and U.S. troops today halted offensive operations in Najaf pending the outcome of talks with Mr. Al Sadr.
"I will be heading to the negotiating table with fire in my belly to engage in sharp diplomacy on behalf of the God of peace," said Mr. Al Sadr through an interpreter. "If necessary, I'm willing to die in negotiations for the glory of Allah. My name shall be added to the long roll call of Muslim statesmen."
Posted by: Korora ||
08/15/2004 12:02:41 AM ||
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I hope it's his blood. And soon.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
08/15/2004 0:29 Comments ||
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You can tell it's scrappleface by the phrase "Muslim statesmen". No such thing exists.
Posted by: Charles ||
08/15/2004 1:42 Comments ||
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"If necessary, Iâm willing to die in negotiations for the glory of Allah."
Shows you his understanding of the word 'negotiations'.
Oh, I forgot - Agreements with infidels are not binding.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
