Article

2008-08-14 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Bush team bungled big time on Georgia fiasco

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Posted by john frum 2008-08-14 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11135 views ] Top

#1 in Afghanistan, where the U.S. Army is currently winning, and in Iraq, where it is not.

Reality inversion. What they want to be true becomes the truth.

Posted by phil_b 2008-08-14 00:32|| 2008-08-14 00:32|| Front Page Top

#2 This is the conversation between Bush and Putin at the Olympics. Vladimir, I will let you take Georgia if you keep you ass out of Cuba. In addition, since Cuba is an island, I want you to keep your hands off Venezuela cause Chavez is a gonner. George, no problem. I'm glad we can work out our problems.

Posted by Art 2008-08-14 00:32|| 2008-08-14 00:32|| Front Page Top

#3 I know little of the area and the article has some valid points about our anticipation of events but I sense a lot of defeatist wishful thinking on the part of Mr. Sieff (we were surprised, let's quit).

Posted by tipover 2008-08-14 01:55|| 2008-08-14 01:55|| Front Page Top

#4 Yeah, no shit, how could they not have known the Russian Army was sitting at their jumping-off points, ready to roll? Things like hundreds of tanks sitting around tend to stick out.

Posted by gromky 2008-08-14 02:06|| 2008-08-14 02:06|| Front Page Top

#5 Bush had nothing to do with the Georgian moves against Russian majority areas. Georgians are pointing the blame at their leaders.

Posted by McZoid 2008-08-14 03:10|| 2008-08-14 03:10|| Front Page Top

#6 There wasnt a massive build up at all.

Posted by Graiting Platypus2765 2008-08-14 07:32|| 2008-08-14 07:32|| Front Page Top

#7 Yeah, no shit, how could they not have known the Russian Army was sitting at their jumping-off points, ready to roll? Things like hundreds of tanks sitting around tend to stick out.

You mean like Korea 1950, Czechoslovakia 68, Tet 68, Kuwait 90, [not to mention the collapse of the 'former' Soviet Union]? Our intel has sucked for a long time, though retro evaluations have been 20/20 haven't they?

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-08-14 08:16|| 2008-08-14 08:16|| Front Page Top

#8 It could have fought hard in the town of Gori, as Palestinian forces fiercely contested the Israeli army in Jenin on the West Bank in 2002. It did none of those things: Its remnants simply fled back to Tbilisi in panic.

By contrast, Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Shiite Army of God in southern Lebanon, stood its ground and fought bravely and all too effectively against a bungled, indecisively commanded and chronically undermanned Israeli frontal assault in July 2006.

Uh huh. I think we know Mr. Sieff's P.O.V. now.

Posted by Parabellum 2008-08-14 08:42|| 2008-08-14 08:42|| Front Page Top

#9 I truly believe that Bush literally didn't have the guts to tell Putin with any amount of substance, to stop. Is it the supposed one way "friendship" that they enjoy? I dunno, but Bush seemed to be hiding under a bed the whole time.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-14 09:25|| 2008-08-14 09:25|| Front Page Top

#10 Oh, and I had no idea we were winning in Afghanistan and losing in Iraq. Who the hell is this guy?

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-14 09:28|| 2008-08-14 09:28|| Front Page Top

#11 I would cut Bush some slack.

He has to deal with the WOT, North Korea, Iran etc, all of which requires working with the Russians. There is nothing in Georgia that is worth getting the US into a shooting war. Plus he has to deal with a character like Saakashvili.

Look at what happened yesterday. Bush announced that the US would deliver humanitarian aid. Saakashvili immediately goes on national TV to announce that the US DOD is taking control over Georgia's ports and airports.

Posted by john frum 2008-08-14 09:39|| 2008-08-14 09:39|| Front Page Top

#12 You're right, totally right, Saakashvili is a complete tool, but we haven't exactly projected power on this have we?

Posted by bigjim-ky 2008-08-14 09:49|| 2008-08-14 09:49|| Front Page Top

#13 Would projecting force with no intention to ever use it be wise? Suppose the Russians didn't blink?
And would that have then encouraged Saakashvili to reject calls for a ceasefire and thus produce even greater damage to Georgia?

Posted by john frum 2008-08-14 11:16|| 2008-08-14 11:16|| Front Page Top

#14 There is nothing in Georgia that is worth getting the US into a shooting war.

Same about Truman and Korea. I could say the same thing about all of Europe as well. It's in a demographic and economic dead end. Too many intangibles in play to see what is going to happen down the road. However, one certainty is the militant revival of Soviet/Russian/Slav re-expansion.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-08-14 12:16|| 2008-08-14 12:16|| Front Page Top

#15 1 re intell - ive been hearing this a lot. Look, its not uncommon for countries to mobilize on the border to exert pressure. I dont think it was at all obvious that Russia was going to go in to this degree. Anyway, we dotn enough yet

2. The comparison to Lebanon - Israel, even had they been willing to use that degree of force (and israel isnt a huge oil exporter and cant defy world opinion to the degree Russia can) simply doesnt have the scale of army and population Russia has. Also Hezb was much better prepared than teh Georgian Army.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-14 12:21|| 2008-08-14 12:21|| Front Page Top

#16 As I told my daughter yesterday, the USA isn't going to start WW3 over Georgia.

Sure it sucks, but more importantly it emphasizes the importance of the long game, which Reagan understood so well.

This is the legacy of Carter and Clinton and probably Bush senior as well.

Posted by phil_b 2008-08-14 13:20|| 2008-08-14 13:20|| Front Page Top

#17 About Bush -- so what was he to do? Jump on a plane, fly into Georgia, jump on a tank and lead the Georgian troops from the front?

I'm sometimes amazed with just what folks want Bush to do. Not in touch with his National Security Council? Ever hear of the telephone, video conferencing?

When did he give the order to get those C-17s into the air? What is the turn-around time to get the supplies, load the planes, etc. (I think the military calls it logistics)

Also, those first few days, he had lots of the world leaders right there with him. Talking face to face. The Aussie PM even heard Bush and Putin arguing.

There is also the fact, that Russia was involved in military exercises there on that border. We knew they were there.
Russia, Georgia Hold Military Exercises amidst Tensions dated 18/07/2008.

Russia and Georgia have simultaneously started large-scale military exercises amid growing tensions between the two countries, caused by Russia's support of the self-proclaimed states of Abkhazia and South Ossetia,and Georgia's plans to enter the NATO bloc.

The US even had a scheduled military exercises with Russia in that area -- so Russia's forces were gathering for that.

What did Bush do?
U.S. cancels Russia exercise over Georgia dated Tue Aug 12, 2008.

The United States has canceled a naval exercise with Russia in protest over Moscow's military operations in Georgia, a senior U.S. defense official said on Tuesday.

Top U.S. officials, including President George W. Bush, have strongly criticized Russia's military campaign in Georgia but the decision to cancel the exercise was among Washington's first concrete actions of protest.

So, yes, we knew they were there, were even gonna play with them a bit.

Back to my question. What did you expect Bush to do as soon as that invasion happened? Maybe walking up to Putin and knocking him out would have been the answer.

Playing AllahPundit: The exit question is, describe the actions Bush "should" have taken in those first 4 days, how those actions would have changed the status of where we are today, given that you may or may not know that he did them, he just doesn't publicize all that he does in the background.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-08-14 13:24|| 2008-08-14 13:24|| Front Page Top

#18 im not saying it would have made a big difference, but he COULD have left beijing the same time Tsar Vlad did, and not hang around. Go back to the WH and take charge, visibly.

He MAY have made the conscious judgement that that would have pissed the Chinese, and was therefore not a good idea.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-14 13:26|| 2008-08-14 13:26|| Front Page Top

#19 LH could you please explain how returning to the WH would have allowed him to take charge anymore than staying where he was with many other world leaders?

Who did he need to be visible to and what does that mean in a day of instant worldwide communications, video included?

Do you think that there's someone important that DOESN'T know he's in charge?

Posted by AlanC 2008-08-14 13:37|| 2008-08-14 13:37|| Front Page Top

#20 One other item. Bush may have been opting to stay in the "area of operation" as CiC.

Distance:
Washington to T'bilisi, Georgia -- 5,778 miles
Beijing to T'bilisi, Georgia -- 3,633 miles

Lot closer for him if he needed to go jump on that tank, driving it to confront Putin!

'Cause, you know, that is his unilateral method of operation. Forget that the French Pres and Foreign Minister were in Moscow, representing not France, but the EU.

Yet, Bush needed to be in the White House. Again, I ask, doing what?

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-08-14 14:11|| 2008-08-14 14:11|| Front Page Top

#21 Yet, Bush needed to be in the White House. Again, I ask, doing what?

Sherry even if he was in DC they'd whinge that he was reading, 'My Pet Goat.' Nothing is good enough where Bush is concerned.

Posted by Beavis 2008-08-14 14:19|| 2008-08-14 14:19|| Front Page Top

#22 One other item -- if you think that it should have been Bush jetting off to Moscow, rather than Sarkozy consider this:

Beijing to Moscow -- 3601 miles
Washington DC to Moscow -- 6929 miles

Would have gotten more frequent flyer miles, maybe, but wouldn't be as close to jet into the "area of operation," if it became important that he get to Moscow.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-08-14 14:20|| 2008-08-14 14:20|| Front Page Top

#23 Beavis -- sad that I had to laugh -- but you are so right...

Some of Bush's company
in case he might have wanted face-to-face visits with:
AFGHANISTAN - President Hamid Karzai
ALBANIA - Prime Minister Sali Berisha
ALGERIA - President Abdelaziz Bouteflika
ANGOLA - President Jose Eduardo dos Santos
ARMENIA - President Serzh Sarkisyan
AUSTRALIA - Prime Minister Kevin Rudd
AZERBAIJAN - President Ilham Aliyev
BELARUS - President Alexander Lukashenko
BRAZIL - President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva
BRUNEI - Sultan Haji Hassanal
BULGARIA - President Georgi Parvanov
BURUNDI - President Pierre Nkurunziz
CAMBODIA - King Norodom Sihamoni
CHAD - Prime Minister Youssouf Saleh Abbas
CONGO - President Joseph Kabila
COOK ISLANDS - Head of State Frederick Goodwin
CROATIA - President Stjepan Mesic
CYPRUS - President Demetris Christofias
EAST TIMOR - President Jose Ramos-Horta
FIJI - Interim Prime Minister Commodore Frank Bainimarama
FINLAND - Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen
FRANCE - President Nicolas Sarkozy
GABON - President El Hadj Omar Bongo Ondimba
GHANA - President John Agyekum Kufuor
ISRAEL - President Shimon Peres
JAPAN - Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda
KAZAKHSTAN - President Nursultan Nazarbayev
LATVIA - President Valdis Zatlers
LAOS - President Choummaly Sayasone
MADAGASCAR - President Marc Ravalomanana
MALI - President Amadou Toumani Toure
MAURITIUS - President Sir Anerood Jugnauth
MALAYSIA - King Tuanku Mizan Zainal Abidin and Queen Tuanku Nur Zahirah
MICRONESIA - President Emanuel Mori
MONACO - Head of State Prince Albert II
MONGOLIA - President Nambaryn Enkhbayar
MONTENEGRO - President Filip Vujanovic
MOZAMBIQUE - President Armando Emilio Guebuza
MYANMAR - Prime Minister General Thein Sein
NETHERLANDS - Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende
NORWAY - King Harald V and Queen Sonja Haraldsen
PHILIPPINES - President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
ROMANIA - President Traian Basescu
RUSSIA - Prime Minister Vladimir Putin
SAMOA - Head of State Tuiatua Tupua Tamasese Efi
SAN MARINO - Captains regents Rosa Zafferani and Federico Pedini Amati
SERBIA - President Boris Tadic
SINGAPORE - Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew
SLOVAKIA - President Ivan Gasparovic
SOUTH KOREA - President Lee Myung-bak
SRI LANKA - President Mahinda Rajapakse
SWITZERLAND - President Pascal Couchepin
THAILAND - Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej and Crown Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn
TONGA - Crown Prince Tupouto'a Lavaka Ata and Prime Minister Feleti Vaka'uta Sevele
UNITED STATES - President George W. Bush. A seven-member delegaton led by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will attend the closing ceremony
UZBEKISTAN - President Islam Karimov
VANUATU - President Kalkot Mataskelekele and Prime Minister Vanuaroroa Ham Lini
VIETNAM - President Nguyen Minh Triet

And some of those coming in later, who just might have decided to come in early, if needed for a visit:
BANGLADESH - Interim Prime Minister Fakhruddin Ahmed. Army chief general Moeen U. Ahmed will attend.
BELGIUM - Prime Minister Yves Leterme. He will attend the closing ceremony. Crown Prince Philippe Leopold Louis Marie will attend opening.
BRITAIN - Prime Minister Gordon Brown. He will attend closing ceremony. Olympics Minister Tessa Jowell to attend opening ceremony.
CANADA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper
CZECH REPUBLIC - Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek will miss the opening ceremony, but attend the Games later.
ESTONIA - President Toomas Hendrik Ilves
GERMANY - Chancellor Angela Merkel
GREECE - Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis. Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyiannis and Culture Minister Michael Liapis will attend.
HUNGARY - Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany will attend the Games but not the opening ceremony.
INDIA - Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. India's ruling Congress party chief Sonia Gandhi and her son Rahul Gandhi will attend opening, as will Sports Minister M. S. Gill.
INDONESIA - President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono
ITALY - Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. Foreign Minister Franco Frattini will attend.
LITHUANIA - President Valdas Adamkus. Prime Minister Gediminas Kirkilas will later attend the Games.
NEW ZEALAND - Prime Minister Helen Clark. Governor-General Anand Satyanand will attend.
NORTH KOREA - President Kim Jong Il. Second in command, Kim Yong Nam, will attend.
PAKISTAN - President Pervez Musharraf. Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani will attend.
POLAND - Prime Minister Donald Tusk
SOUTH AFRICA - President Thabo Mbeki. His wife Zanele Mbeki will attend the Games.
SPAIN - King Juan Carlos and Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos and Crown Prince Felipe de Borbon y Grecia will attend.
TAIWAN - President Ma Ying-jeou. Thomas Tsai, president of the Chinese Taipei Olympic Committee, will attend.
UNITED NATIONS - Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon
ZIMBABWE - President Robert Mugabe

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-08-14 14:41|| 2008-08-14 14:41|| Front Page Top

#24 " LH could you please explain how returning to the WH would have allowed him to take charge anymore than staying where he was with many other world leaders?"

To have face to face meetings with RIce, Gates, Hadely,Joint Chiefs, and ANYONE else from the US national security establishment. Rice was in Beijing, but the others werent. But if you think advice from anyone at State otehr than Rice herself, and that advice from the Joint Chiefts, teh CIA, etc is valueless, as I know some here do think, than youre right, no practical advantage to leaving beijing.

Who did he need to be visible to and what does that mean in a day of instant worldwide communications, video included?

What it means is making clear that you think this is a crisis requiring massive attention. Which is hard to convey while watching volleyball.

The audience? Well the people of Georgia first and foremost. The Russians, secondarily. The Eastern europeans, third.

Do you think that there's someone important that DOESN'T know he's in charge?

The point is not to show hes at the top of the org chart, but that hes actually hands on on the crisis. Can you say 3 AM call?

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-14 14:52|| 2008-08-14 14:52|| Front Page Top

#25 BURUNDI - President Pierre Nkurunziz
CAMBODIA - King Norodom Sihamoni
CHAD - Prime Minister Youssouf Saleh Abbas

im sure meeting with those good folks was really more important then meeting with Hadley or the Joint Chiefs.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-14 14:54|| 2008-08-14 14:54|| Front Page Top

#26 Let's start a pool - which occurs first - even odds to start:

1 - Date when Last US combat soldier leaves Iraq (not counting embassy guards,liason/trainers/routine visits)

2 - Date last Soviet/Russian/Tsarist combat soldier leaves Georgian territory OR Independent Ossetian territory.

Posted by Whomoger McGurque4130 2008-08-14 14:57|| 2008-08-14 14:57|| Front Page Top

#27 if you think advice from anyone at State otehr than Rice herself, and that advice from the Joint Chiefts, teh CIA, etc is valueless, as I know some here do think, than youre right, no practical advantage to leaving beijing

Face to face is not the only way for Bush to communicate with those people. POTUS does not travel without a full comms capability.

Posted by lotp 2008-08-14 15:20|| 2008-08-14 15:20|| Front Page Top

#28 I'm pretty sure W can multi task -- show face in China and conf call on the Marsat phone or iridum super singars w/the head shed back in DC, foggy bottom or wherever & talk to the info gurus. Not exactly rocket science.

Posted by Broadhead6 2008-08-14 15:22|| 2008-08-14 15:22|| Front Page Top

#29 Doesnt W even more than most like to look people in the eye? I dont have as much confidence in video conferencing as a substitute for a RL meeting for a bunch of reasons, but then Im an old fogie.

Well anyway, I hope the WH tells us all how much time W spent doing video conferences from Beijing, it would help the PR alot, cause hes left a lot of people thinking he was less than involved, and my impression is thats not just sufferers from BDS but ordinary folks including lots of georgians. I could be wrong, and I expect you all will tell me Im full of it. Fine.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-14 15:38|| 2008-08-14 15:38|| Front Page Top

#30 LH -- There probably are some in Georgia, just like in the good ole USA, that wanted W sitting in the WH telling us every move, conversation they were doing.

But not all of the Georgians, 'cause they were the ones, who at those rallies, were waving big ole USA flags!

And, yes, W does like to look folks in the eye. I'm just guessing, but I think he has had more than one video conference and real meetings with those folks, that he knows them well enough, that he can see them eye-to-eye in a video conference.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-08-14 15:53|| 2008-08-14 15:53|| Front Page Top

#31 Relax, LH. Bamm Bamm will make things all better when he gets sworn in to office. That day is only 5 short months away. He'll convince us all to shed our cynicism about Russia and work hard to accept the fact that Europe really ought to be a province of Russia. Isn't a European Union what the Europeans have been working towards all these years? Greater Russia will simply be an EU with a Russian accent. Yes, we can accept it, but only if we try really hard, like Bamm Bamm wants us to.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2008-08-14 16:14|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2008-08-14 16:14|| Front Page Top

#32 And LH, you still haven't detailed what you wanting him to be doing. 24 four hours a day meetings with State Department folks, DOD, etc.

Only so much can happen in each meeting, then you just sit around and wait, see what the next 12 hours brings, then meet again.

If you read above, I ask for some specifics. Other than sitting in the WH, looking folks in the eyes, I'm assuming you are thinking, W in the WH makes the world safe is the image to be projected.

Plus -- I still have heard no specifics are what he should be doing. Fly to WH, what now?

It's always the same, W just doesn't do anything --- but no one ever ventures forth with anything other than, he should have gone to New Orleans (and do what:) he should have gone to the WH (to do what?).

Come on, give it a try.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-08-14 16:16|| 2008-08-14 16:16|| Front Page Top

#33 ZF - Hell, I think if McCain gets in that will make things better.

Sherry - Im not going to go into the details of WH crisis management. You dont sound persuadable, and as I said in my first post on the matter, I dont think it would have mattered THAT much.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-14 16:37|| 2008-08-14 16:37|| Front Page Top

#34 LH -- it's not a question of being persuadable or not, it just that incident after incident after incident, the Bush Bashing... well, today, my temperament is of the kind, I just had to vent about it.

I'm usually pretty quiet around here. Today? Well, my patience just ran thin.

I accept what Beavis said, "if he came back, they would just say he was reading the goat book again."

No one deserves the abuse this man has taken. Me, I was glad to see him having fun, and our athletes apparently were extremely please to have him there.

Look at the pics of them with him, hanging all over him! Even the Redeem Team Basketball team! Kobe Bryant standing with his arm around Bush? Who would have ever thought to see that?

And Phelps telling of winning one of those races and how good it felt to look up and see that thumbs up from his President. Now, Mike had to know where he was sitting, and he had to have looked straight at the Pres to see that.

So again, it's not the persuadable or not, it's always Bush just reading the goat book, and no better suggestions made on maybe a better book he should have been reading.

I'll go back into my "no comment" mode now, but I do appreciate you listening.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2008-08-14 17:06|| 2008-08-14 17:06|| Front Page Top

#35 i dont usually bash Bush, ive defending him on several occasions, and I despise BDS.

But the counterpart to BDS is the apparent belief no one could EVER do anything better than Bush does. And in this particular instance I think it was clear what could have been done better. Most of the impact would have been in PR, but PR matters. In this instance, where our military levers are very limited, PR matters ALOT. Thats part of what being president is about, being there to rally around, and using your own person for imagery. Bush has been singularly poor at it, and its harmed even his wisest policies. and if Bush didnt like it he shouldnt have signed up for the job.

Im glad he had time to relax, but come january hes going to have LOTS of time for that.

And yeah, abuse goes with the job too, and if he didnt want that he shouldnt have signed up.

Both McCain and Obama have already gotten plenty of abuse they dont deserve. But thats what comes iwth the territory.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-14 17:18|| 2008-08-14 17:18|| Front Page Top

#36 wonder over to the new belmont club at Pajamasmedia and read the over 500 comment on his "Choose" thread. Lots of options and such discussed.

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-14 17:24|| 2008-08-14 17:24|| Front Page Top

#37 choose

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-14 17:28|| 2008-08-14 17:28|| Front Page Top

#38 and that wonderful comment from the choose thread:
Want a straightforward indication of what the Russians intend? Putins code-name for this operation is Chistoye Polye. Literally translated, that means clean field. In military parlance, it means scorched earth.

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-14 17:33|| 2008-08-14 17:33|| Front Page Top

#39 Putin is a good reason for a missle defence shield in Poland. Best policy is to continue support former satellites of the Soviet Union that are favorable to the US. Looks like the Cold War is on again but in a more limited way. Russians have delusions of grandeur. If you shake hands with the Russkies you had better count your fingers afterwards.

Posted by JohnQC 2008-08-14 18:32|| 2008-08-14 18:32|| Front Page Top

#40 LH, I'd say you were full of it but that wouldn't be true. You obviously spilled some of "it" on the keyboard.

For Bush to race off from the Olympics back to DC over this would have been the WORST thing he could do. This guy doesn't panic and he knew that no matter what was going down in Georgia, making a big public display of concern wasn't going to help matters. Remember what is going on here: this is the United States and Russia. The same people who had the entire world worried about MAD for half a century. Things like this need to be handled carefully and cautiously because the consequences, should they get out of hand, could be extremely dire.

I'm sure Bush knew our immediate options were relatively limited given our assets in the area. To make a big deal about going back to DC, only to show that we weren't going to do anything, would have made him look foolish. We're not likely to go to war with Russia over Georgia so downplaying this incident was the smartest thing he could have done. Think of the alternative: do you really think it would have been better if he got in Putin's face and said "pull your troops out in 24 hours or we start opening the silo doors?"

The Russians made a big mistake here. They're going to need to back away from it. However, they're a major player on the world stage and bullying them would not be taken well by them or by onlookers. I think Bush is handling this quite well so far. Sieff is obviously just a guy with an axe to grind and quite possibly a case of BDS. For him to say this was an American "fiasco of monumental proportions" is ridiculous hyperbole.

Posted by Spike Speaque2226 2008-08-14 21:35|| 2008-08-14 21:35|| Front Page Top

#41 I'm not sure what decisions he could've made at the WH that he couldn't make where he was. I'm sure he has enough repour w/his JCS that if they said "sir, need you to come home asap to unfuck this thing" he would've went back to DC most rik-tik. If to go back to DC was just for image sake, well, W has never really seem to give a shit about image (at least to me).

Posted by Hupusong Hatfield aka Broadhead6 2008-08-14 21:38|| 2008-08-14 21:38|| Front Page Top

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