Article

2006-10-21 Home Front: Culture Wars

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve White 2006-10-21 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11135 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "Marines" not "soldiers" dammit.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2006-10-21 00:24|| 2006-10-21 00:24|| Front Page Top

#2 Iff I remember correctly, on-shore black Marine units + smaller assigned Army elements did Arty close support, stretcher-bearer = medical support, landing craft operators/opers, and logistics i.e. the physical unloading of food + combat supplies. Later worked on airfield(s) repair and expansion.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2006-10-21 00:35|| 2006-10-21 00:35|| Front Page Top

#3 I am sick unto death of the incessant carping of agenda driven assholes who seek to rewrite history to suit their own world view. One of the better things Truman did was to desegregate the military, but in 1944 it was still segregated. Black Marines were restricted to ammunition transport and supply units. Of the 70,000 Marines in the battle of Iwo Jima, about 900 were black. A story following a combat platoon would be unlikely to involve blacks.

The Guardian shows its usual ideological cant in neglecting to mention that there were 30,000 Marines in the first wave followed by 40,000 more:
:
Melton McLaurin...says that there were hundreds of black soldiers on Iwo Jima from the first day of the 35-day battle. Although most of the black marine units were assigned ammunition and supply roles, the chaos of the landing soon undermined the battle plan.

Posted by RWV 2006-10-21 00:47|| 2006-10-21 00:47|| Front Page Top

#4 That makes two of us, RVW. I can't count the number of times I've seen textbook articles skewed to give women and minorities credit for things they simply did not do and had no part in. Voltaire was right when he said that history is a pack of tricks played by the living on the dead. PC makes me want to puke.

Posted by mac 2006-10-21 01:06|| 2006-10-21 01:06|| Front Page Top

#5 On her blog, Debbie Schlussel writes that Eastwood defames the American system by telling a story of the Iwo' flag bearers being socially shorted after the war. If that is true, then the movie mirrors defunct Soviet worst-of takes on anything American. I haven't seen the movie, but Schlussel usually gets it right.

Posted by Snease Shaiting3550 2006-10-21 04:53|| 2006-10-21 04:53|| Front Page Top

#6 In 194x the official theory was that Blacks didn't fight well, and to say the truth the performance of the little trained Black ground troops who accidentally saw combat (they were supposed to be in support roles) was less tha stellar.

In addition the USMC was the more seggregated within the services, even more than the Navy.

But I find rich that the Guradian who never gave a hoot about ~~Niggers~~ Balcks being genocided in Sudan, dares to speak of eracism.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-10-21 08:03|| 2006-10-21 08:03|| Front Page Top

#7 Have not seen the movie, SS, but read the book. The three guys were thrust into the spotlight, which they did not like. Two wanted no part of the limelight and soon withdrew from the public eye. The third, who had the least to do with the fighting - he was a runner who happened to be there - thought his fame should bring him glory. He was disappointed.

I'm not sure I understood you comment, but I certainly didn't think the book defamed the American system.

Posted by Bobby 2006-10-21 08:58|| 2006-10-21 08:58|| Front Page Top

#8 "The performance of the little trained Black ground troops who accidentally saw combat (they were supposed to be in support roles) was less tha stellar." Well DUH! If you are not trained as Infantry then you would perform poorly as Infantry. KInd of like saying that the company clerk didn't fly the F-4F as well as the pilot that spent months training to fly that aircraft.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2006-10-21 14:12|| 2006-10-21 14:12|| Front Page Top

#9 a good point to be made is that the famous Iwo Jima photo did not capture the face or race or anything else showing individual characteristics. Neither does the statue. Anyone carping now is trying to paint their own thin skinned bias on the rest of the world. The three men the film focuses on did not necessarily handle their fame, but the US was not in the wrong to use their heroics (and that of those who never came back) to help energize the war bond drives. Crass, but necessary

Posted by Judge Roy Bean">Judge Roy Bean 2006-10-21 15:25|| 2006-10-21 15:25|| Front Page Top

#10 damn - that was me

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-10-21 15:37|| 2006-10-21 15:37|| Front Page Top

#11 damn - that was me

a judge Frank ?!?

..and all this time I thought you were an engineer! bleh!

Posted by RD 2006-10-21 15:44|| 2006-10-21 15:44|| Front Page Top

#12 Shame on you, Frank...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-10-21 16:03|| 2006-10-21 16:03|| Front Page Top

#13 well I have been accused of being a judgemental asshole....that's what got me through the RB pre-commenter interviews with Master Fred, tho'....

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-10-21 16:04|| 2006-10-21 16:04|| Front Page Top

#14 What I was meaning "throufgh the less than stellar" (1) sentence is that ther performance of thse Negro ground units did little to dissipate racial prejudice about Negros in combat. I wasn't implying it was through a fault of their own

You will notice I talked of ground units since at about this time the all-Negro 99th Fighter Squadron was performing well above the average for white squadrons.

About Iwo Jima the Guardian could have had a point if it had talked of the lack of Indian Marines in the film (1) since AFAIK even the Marines admitted Indians (in fact Papy Boyington looks more than half Indian and he still became an officer).

(1) I remember a movie shot in the 60s or 70s about the whereabouts of one of the Marines of THE Iwo-Jima photo who was Indian.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-10-21 16:09|| 2006-10-21 16:09|| Front Page Top

#15 but the US was not in the wrong to use their heroics

Also at that time there was a movement for dissolving the Marines and integrating them in the Army. After seeing the photo one of the main anti-Marines said: "This photo guarantees there will be Marone Corps for at least 50 years more"

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-10-21 16:12|| 2006-10-21 16:12|| Front Page Top

#16 #13 well I have been accused of being a judgemental asshole....that's what got me through the RB pre-commenter interviews with Master Fred, tho'....

LOL, you passed that test Frank? Damn, ima still on probation!!

»:-)

Posted by RD 2006-10-21 16:13|| 2006-10-21 16:13|| Front Page Top

#17 Ira Hayes was a Pima indian from Arizona IIRC.

Posted by Broadhead6 2006-10-21 16:19|| 2006-10-21 16:19|| Front Page Top

#18 Native Americans have served often and honorably in the US military. I had the privilege of hearing a talk by one of the few surviving Navajo Code Talkers from WWII a couple years ago. They were incredibly important in that war.

But of course, many native americans serve and served in combat as well. Here is a link to something you may never see again -- a native ceremony for a fallen Sioux Marine.

American Indians have the highest per-capita participation in the armed services of any ethnic group.

Posted by lotp 2006-10-21 16:32|| 2006-10-21 16:32|| Front Page Top

#19 IIRC, my dad told me there were two black AAA units with Patton's army, and they did all right. Again, training vs no training. I've worked with blacks, Asians, Hispanics, and just about everything else in today's military, and the ones that put some effort into what they do shine, while those (including whites) that don't are pi$$-poor at anything.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2006-10-21 16:45|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2006-10-21 16:45|| Front Page Top

#20 Saw the movie today in Warner Robins, GA, and left with a tear in my eyes. It was very, very quiet after the film ended. Clint Eastwood followed the book without the usual Hollywood ebellishment. The story was well told, warts and all. Yes, there were some blacks in the picture and their units were assigned to land on a different beach than than 2nd platoon, Charlie Company. It is then, not surprising, that the subsequent pictures of the Marines dying to take Mt Suribachi didn't include them. The film also vividly demonstrated the sacrifice of our father's generation. In taking Iwo Jima, the US lost three times the number of men killed in Iraq.

Posted by RWV 2006-10-21 20:00|| 2006-10-21 20:00|| Front Page Top

#21 RWV - I thought you were SoCal based...

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-10-21 20:35|| 2006-10-21 20:35|| Front Page Top

#22 I live in Pacific Beach, but have a number of projects with the Air Force at Warner Robins Air Logistics Center. Trying to get all the right people together at the right time caused me to spend the weekend in Warner Robins. You'd like it here. Most of the local businesses sport a sign that says EDIMGIAFAD which means Every Day In Middle Georgia is Armed Forces Appreciation Day.

Posted by RWV 2006-10-21 20:41|| 2006-10-21 20:41|| Front Page Top

#23 Santee here - work downtown

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-10-21 20:42|| 2006-10-21 20:42|| Front Page Top

#24 :-) I would

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-10-21 20:43|| 2006-10-21 20:43|| Front Page Top

#25 Just saw the movie. One of the main characters was an American Indian. The closing credits are rolled next to a very long series of actual still photos, and blacks are included in those photos.

I thought it was a good movie, but it was very confusing trying to follow so many characters that looked so much alike. My wife and I spent ten minutes after it was over just sorting out who was who in that regard. I'm sure it would be a lot clearer the second time around.

Posted by Darrell 2006-10-21 21:59|| 2006-10-21 21:59|| Front Page Top

09:26 Ebbemp Jealing8797
09:27 Flalet Whearong6105
23:57 Zenster
23:54 Eric Jablow
23:49 RD
23:33 SR-71
23:18 mhw
22:47 Zenster
22:42 Zenster
22:32 Zenster
22:24 Zenster
22:16 Zenster
21:59 Darrell
21:58 Mike
21:50 lotp
21:41 USN,Ret
21:38 Throtle Slavimble7236
21:34 twobyfour
21:34 Zenster
21:18 Zenster
21:15 3dc
21:13 3dc
21:03 Jack Bross
21:01 twobyfour