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2007-08-14 Home Front: WoT

NPR: A Former Navy SEAL Questions Rules of War

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Posted by Delphi 2007-08-14 00:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 It's necessary that men like Luttrell should die while following ridiculous rules, in order that educated people can sip imported coffee and feel comfortable about themselves.

Posted by gromky 2007-08-14 01:37|| 2007-08-14 01:37|| Front Page Top

#2 It's a sh*tty situation for the warfighters to be in -- some commanders have an avoid collateral damage at all costs attitude -- I personally prefer avoid collateral damage if possible.

There's so much fear of a "bad CNN moment" or another incident that could be construed as a my lai that the Cents (based off the recommendations of a lot of jags) really hamstring us. I used to tell my lads - 'tis better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. In the end all the more reason to black out the media & have AFN as the only source of info coming out of iraq/afghanland.

Posted by Broadhead6 2007-08-14 06:24|| 2007-08-14 06:24|| Front Page Top

#3 tid up em up oand left them. or kill them whick hindsight is 20/20 but seems ,ore than likeky the goat herders turned them in too the taliban

Posted by Jesus saves 2007-08-14 08:34|| 2007-08-14 08:34|| Front Page Top

#4 I've seen this book at my local Costco and have been pondering whether or not to buy. I think the quote on the Geneva Conventions just made up my mind for me. I'm headin' there this afternoon.

Posted by BA 2007-08-14 08:55|| 2007-08-14 08:55|| Front Page Top

#5 We listened to the book on tape on our vacation a few weeks ago. Am now reading the book for the complete version.

'after encountering goatherders with about 100 goats,...' Page 23; "When they find the bodies the Taliban leaders will sing to the Afghan media. The media in the U.S.A. will latch on to it and write stuff about the brutish U.S. Armed Forces. Very shortly after that, we'll be charged with murder. The murder of innocent unarmed Afghan farmers."
Knowing that our military even consider this disgusts me.
Wake up America!

Posted by Jan 2007-08-14 11:47|| 2007-08-14 11:47|| Front Page Top

#6 Marcus and his team had a real bad day because of stupid ROEs. They said they were more afraid of the MSM and the left in the U.S. than the Taliban.

Posted by JohnQC 2007-08-14 13:04|| 2007-08-14 13:04|| Front Page Top

#7 I'd recommend this book highly.

Posted by JohnQC 2007-08-14 13:05|| 2007-08-14 13:05|| Front Page Top

#8 The SEALs discussed their options

Ok, granted I wasn't there thank Allah, but I'll drop the flag on this one anyway. First off, deer hunting with a fishing pole generally produces quite predictable results. Those lads belong in a maritime environment, not on a mountain top. That's their specialty, no one is better at it. Use them there, do NOT abuse them elsewhere. Yes, I know.... they are very hooah and will volunteer for anything, but come on damn it, look at the score card and records. Secondly, "discussing options?" WTF, is this decision by committee? Who was in charge? This was obviously a (non-contact) recce mission? What did they think they were going to get out of a local, for phuechs sake? What about actions short of the objective? Contact plan? E&E Plan? Rally points? Wasted talent, wasted lives. More JSOTF lets all be cool direct action or long range surveillance expert bullshit.

Posted by Besoeker 2007-08-14 13:21|| 2007-08-14 13:21|| Front Page Top

#9 BA -- run, don't walk and get this book. Be sure you have soon time set aside to read it. You will be laughing on one page and crying on the next.

My Sunday morning smile lately, is getting my Sunday paper, and looking at the NYTimes top 10 non-fiction books, and Long Survivor is still there are #1. Love how that must just grate them, that a SEAL's book is #1 on their list!

I guarantee you, if you dislike this book, email me, and I'll pay for your book! It's a compelling read and a "must read."

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2007-08-14 16:45|| 2007-08-14 16:45|| Front Page Top

#10 Besoeker, I think I have to disagree with you here. SEALS are sea air land trained. They have alot more than flyrods here. I wish none of our military needed to be on any mountain top, but that's what we need to do.
I think the big problem here is that they thought about how killing the goat herders would be received over the need to kill them for the safety of the mission.
Broadhead6, spot on.

Posted by Jan 2007-08-14 16:54|| 2007-08-14 16:54|| Front Page Top

#11 Besoeker, they were on a "snatch and grab" of a HVT that they had been hunting for awhile. He wasn't "just a local."

Posted by Sherry 2007-08-14 17:20|| 2007-08-14 17:20|| Front Page Top

#12 Besoeker, I think I have to disagree with you here. SEALS are sea air land trained.

SEALS are primarily trained to ingress and egress by water, they're also a LOT more comfortable having the Sea at their backs. Sneakin' and peekin' on a mountainside is a mission better suited to the Marine Forced Recon or one of the Army special operations units. Not the SEALS.

I wasn't there, but if it was me, those goat herders would have been found dead, and I'd have scrubbed the mission due to being compromised. Snatch the HVT some other time.

They (the SEALS) were on the wrong mission, and this isn't the first time higher command has screwed the pooch with an assignment like this. The Panama operation at the airport comes to mind.

Posted by Natural Law 2007-08-14 20:17|| 2007-08-14 20:17|| Front Page Top

#13 perhaps better suited for Marines passed thru the Sonora hi-altitude training, given....

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-08-14 20:52|| 2007-08-14 20:52|| Front Page Top

#14 Thanks for the vote of confidence in the book, Sherry. His quote on the "rules of Article 223.556 mm" alone swung me over.

Actually, I was alredy plannin' on picking it up. This article just seals the deal (no pun intended).

Posted by BA 2007-08-14 20:57|| 2007-08-14 20:57|| Front Page Top

#15 understood, and thanks.
I know it can't be intentional, and it must be a very hard decision for our higher command to choose who to send. Hindsight as always.
I agree with Broadhead6, we need to blackout the media.

Posted by Jan 2007-08-14 21:37|| 2007-08-14 21:37|| Front Page Top

#16 "That's when they were discovered by Afghans who might betray their presence."

OOPS....

Posted by crazyhorse 2007-08-14 22:30|| 2007-08-14 22:30|| Front Page Top

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