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2007-11-12 Home Front: Politix

73% Say Police Should Check to See If Traffic Violators are in the Country Legally

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Posted by Icerigger 2007-11-12 01:10|| || Front Page|| [5 views ] Top

#1 ..and check for valid insurance, not one printed up at Papa Philipas' Print Shop and Xerox Emporium.

Do you think it's a great leap of logic to believe that if they aren't legal, the likelihood of obeying the other laws covering insurance are going to bother them? Hit Americans where they pay attention to - their pocketbooks, directly and in their face.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-11-12 09:02|| 2007-11-12 09:02|| Front Page Top

#2 I would be in favor of deporting ALL Illegals if it was a viable option. Facts are that ICE isn't large enough to perform the task. I may be getting soft but there should be some way to allow the PRODUCTIVE illegals to stay and throw out te trash so to speak.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2007-11-12 09:28|| 2007-11-12 09:28|| Front Page Top

#3 Removing the incentives would help. No more free medical care (except for life-saving). No more free educational benefits. No more sanctuary cities (cut *all* their federal funding). No more jobs (prosecute those who hire them - even day laborers). And no citizenship for newborns unless both parents are either legal residents or citizens.

Posted by CrazyFool 2007-11-12 10:45|| 2007-11-12 10:45|| Front Page Top

#4 As the atmosphere becomes less welcoming and more rejectionist, illegals are going to leave. Today it was announced -- without comment -- on NPR that ICE is going to teach companies how to recognize if the people they want to hire are illegals. Granted, likely few illegals listen to NPR. But many business owners do, the same people being arrested now after their businesses are raided, their illegal employees taken away and deported.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2007-11-12 10:50|| 2007-11-12 10:50|| Front Page Top

#5 Cyber Sarge: You have hit on the true bottom line of the whole issue. America needs and should want good citizens of all types, even those who are not officially citizens, but act like it.

For example, I know of one family with three who are legal and three who aren't. All are hard working, and two of the three who are illegal have lived in the US since they were two years old. They have never even been to Mexico. And none even have relatives in Mexico. Ironically, only the legal members of the family speak Spanish fluently. The primary language of the illegal members is English.

But other individuals and families are nothing but criminals and parasites, who don't want to integrate and are a huge drain on our society.

So why NOT send the latter group back and invite the good ones to stay? It is possible to do so, because it can be easily determined who the bad ones are:

1) Serious criminal record.
2) Living on government handouts for years.
3) Are not fluent in English nor have work. Cannot find an employer/sponsor to host them.

Compare this with the good ones we need:

1) No serious criminal record (disregard unlawful border crossing which is a misdemeanor, or unlawful residence, which is a *civil* offense). Also, some grace for identity theft, if only used for employment, not for criminal fraud against a living person.
2) Are either employed or have their own business, and have received no or minimal government assistance and for only a limited time.
3) Have or are learning English, understand US law to a normal degree.
4) Are willing to become a US citizen, if they do not have to leave the US to do it, are willing to pay a fee and a reasonable fine, submit to a public health check for dangerous communicable diseases, and to reaffirm all contracts they have joined once they are citizens.

ICE could over some years eject the ones we don't want, because they make themselves available to the authorities to do so. And in the process, the bad ones could be *barred* from re-entry, which is the only severe crime associated with illegal entry. If they return, they could get 20 years in federal prison. So they would be highly motivated to not come back.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-11-12 10:55|| 2007-11-12 10:55|| Front Page Top

#6 Offer a $1000 bounty (and a $10,000 mandatory fine for employers) for each illegal ratted out and the problem will be solved in 30 days.

Posted by ed 2007-11-12 11:46|| 2007-11-12 11:46|| Front Page Top

#7 Ed your idea is the best. Been bouncing those ideas for a couple month. Set the population loose with money incentives. Hell I'd take a 6 month sabbatical myself if the bounty on the illegals and companies was high enough.

Posted by Icerigger">Icerigger 2007-11-12 12:01|| http://coonlakebeach.com/support_mn_troops.htm]">[http://coonlakebeach.com/support_mn_troops.htm] 2007-11-12 12:01|| Front Page Top

#8 moose - I like your idea, as long as it doesn't place illegal aliens in front of legal applicants who are (and have been) waiting - sometimes for years to come here legally.

Like the bounty idea - however this might set a dangerous precedent. How long before there's a bounty on other 'undesirable' elements such as 'gunowners' or so-called 'racist' (i.e. people who oppose multiculturism). Not to oppose it but just saying...

Posted by CrazyFool 2007-11-12 12:18|| 2007-11-12 12:18|| Front Page Top

#9 Immigration should be filtered for quality.

At the moment it's not, that's the problem.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2007-11-12 12:51|| 2007-11-12 12:51|| Front Page Top

#10 Anonymoose: in the family you know, did the three who are legal enter the country and remain here legally, or is it just that they were born here? Because the latter makes them anchor babies -- not the same thing at all.

I've come to the conclusion if they didn't enter legally, they need to go to the back of the line, even if that means starting from back home. There are plenty of hard working, honest, honourable people who are doing things the legal way, a process that nowadays takes years, with the end point ever receding because of the illegals who must be dealt with. Much of the third world would happily move here if given a chance. Why should those who broke our laws of entry get a leg up?

Posted by trailing wife 2007-11-12 13:57|| 2007-11-12 13:57|| Front Page Top

#11 This issue has exposed something that is now made very clear. There are many US politicians who will kiss up to who ever keeps them in power, regardless to whether those that keep them in power are US citizens or Non US citizens.

Posted by Don Vito Shens6025 2007-11-12 14:01|| 2007-11-12 14:01|| Front Page Top

#12 trailing wife: It's an important point that I mentioned before that crossing the border is just a minor misdemeanor, almost never prosecuted unless you are observed doing it. Living in the US is not a crime at all, it is a civil offense.

Many of the people here now had no choice to cross the border, they were brought here as young children and have lived here ever since. They have been through US schools, speak English, hold jobs here and have no more in common with Mexico than Zimbabwe or Bosnia.

They have no family they know in Mexico, no friends, and are completely American kids. Would you be comfortable if your kids were deported, age 4-18, to a foreign country, and left to fend for themselves, for say, 10 years before they could even visit home?

And that is the realistic situation for many. They have to wait years just to get a green card for permanent residency status, and have to live in another country, a *foreign* country, until they get it.

It is just as bad for adults as children. Many who live here would have to abandon their families, who may themselves be legal, without the ability to support themselves, to wait years in another country to get a green card.

Nobody in their right mind wants to do that. And they certainly don't want to take their American citizen family with them to Mexico, because they would be unwanted foreign aliens there, too, and would find it very hard to get residency there.

Nothing is easy. I have met Mexicans who have lived in the US for 20 years, who want to enlist in the US military, but cannot because they would have to wait years in Mexico to get a green card first. But if they did have a green card, because of a wartime exemption, after 1 day on active duty, they could apply for citizenship. But that is subject to change at any time.

The whole situation is wacky.

In the Phoenix area, Mexicans tend to integrate much faster than in LA. This is because there is no large Mexican community as such, they are dispersed throughout the metro area.

In a single family, you will often see illegal grandparents, who speak no English and are wholly Mexican, with adult children who both legal and illegal, but are halfway American and Mexican, speaking both Spanish and English. Then the grandchildren are both legal and illegal, but are fully American, have never been to Mexico except perhaps in infancy, speak only English, and like their parents have been through US school.

The parents and grandparents all work, both as laborers and entrepreneurs. Both the illegals and legals drive, because they have to.

So is it right that the sins of the grandparents be visited on their children and grandchildren? Or to break up families, booting some out and leaving others on welfare instead of leaving them all to gainful employment and prosperity?

That is why I proposed an easy test for citizenship I mentioned above. We get the good people, and not just Mexicans, but the cream of the crop from other nations as well, and we kick out the bad ones.

Make no mistake, it is not a freebie. They have to earn it, and they have to behave themselves.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-11-12 16:24|| 2007-11-12 16:24|| Front Page Top

#13 Anonymoose, my mother was boarded out from age 17 to almost 21, because she could not be hidden with her parents in Amsterdam -- that was Dutch Underground policy. The first family that took her in abused her, for which my grandparents paid a rather princely sum. Mama didn't complain, because other girls her age were being sent to concentration camps. I'm still not sure how it was discovered, but she was taken away. However, another family wasn't found for some weeks, so one of her old teachers took her in, even though there wasn't really anywhere to keep her -- for those weeks Mama crawled out of the window before sunrise and settled herself in the roof gutter, always with her head uphill of course, then crawled back in after dark. Her parents paid a slightly less princely sum for that, because the lady was risking her life to give Mama that much protection.

Life is not fair. In your example the Mexican grandparents made what seemed a logical choice that screwed things up for the generations that followed. Now they all have to deal with the results, and it stinks for them. They have to choose: abandon those who aren't here illegally, or send a responsible adult back with them. You're describing an approximately 50 million person situation, if I'm reading your example correctly. At that point it becomes a law/policy issue, not one of personal generosity. I'm sorry, but like the prostitutes you've cited elsewhere, they made what seemed the best choice, and must accept the real consequences.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-11-12 18:10|| 2007-11-12 18:10|| Front Page Top

#14 Grandparents huh? Useful tools of the much purer Spanish blood who rule and dominate Mexico, raping their land for profits and power, while the population like sheep buy the nationalist lies of identity at the expense of the future of their children. Of course, in all the unfortunate consequences, the authors of the problem pay no penalty not only for what they did to the grandparents, but what they continue to do the current wave of obereos of meztisos and indios they dump across the border. The only thing the Mexican ruling class care about is their position and power. All else is a scam to exploit their own and our people. Billions upon billions of the nationalized petroleum industry line the pockets of these people, they don't line the infrastructure of the nation. Until that fundamental problem is addressed, you're just spin in place with any other 'solution'.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-11-12 18:29|| 2007-11-12 18:29|| Front Page Top

#15 most peopel don't even know about the remittances sent back to Mexico- while getting free healthcare and schooling from us dumb gringos:

From 2000 to 2006, remittances grew to nearly $24 billion a year from $6.6 billion, rising more than 20 percent some years. In 2007, the increase so far has been less than 2 percent.

when Americans wake up to that - you'll see the numbers go even higher. You can't solve the issue of generational stay-or-deport if you don't stop the fresh flood now. Finish the fence, then we can talk

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-11-12 19:28|| 2007-11-12 19:28|| Front Page Top

#16 yep..."dumb gringos" and "peopel" in the same post. Clearly I was projecting....damn

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-11-12 19:31|| 2007-11-12 19:31|| Front Page Top

#17 trailing wife: As you pointed out, life was not fair during the Nazi occupation. But does that mean that we have to emulate those times? American prides itself in at least trying to be fair, and trying to be reasonable. And by following that path, we do come up with a lot of equitable and tolerable solutions.

Fairness would mean not going out of our way to abuse people who are behaving themselves. But reasonable accepts that there are limitations to whom we can accept into our nation. So why not choose those who behave as good citizens already, even though they are not citizens?

Of those 50 million people you suggested, how many are productively contributing to our society, not violating our laws, trying to assimilate and become Americans in any way they can? Not all, certainly, but a goodly number. Were that number to become legal citizens, even with the waving of a magic Congressional wand, what crisis would result? More than anything, we would notice that a lot more taxes were being paid.

However, there are those among them who are troublesome, criminal, offensive and anti-social. They do not wish to integrate, but to be parasites on, and an infection to our society. But we can identify them, apart from the good people. They identify themselves in most cases.

Once identified, they not only should be deported without delay, but barred from reentry under threat of a severe penalty if they try to return.

And by purging them, we not only eliminate the problems commonly associated with illegal aliens, but we also protect those good future citizens from villains who prey on them most of all.

This is also not to say that we should forever open the flood gates to all who would enter the US illegally. The laws are being stiffened to make life here as an illegal far more difficult in the future. But for those laws to punish should-be-citizens is an ungainly as if they were to punish citizens, like you or I.

Between fairness and reasonableness are many ways to be considerate, yet not be taken advantage of.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-11-12 19:56|| 2007-11-12 19:56|| Front Page Top

#18 Whatever happened to the alien registration I used to see advertised on TV when I was a kid in the 60's. Aliens had to register at the post office. Annually, I think. Failure to do so was a crime.

Finish the fence, put alien registration back in place, automatically deport any alien that is not registered, and start sorting through the registered ones. If you're registered, have a clean criminal record, and are self-supporting or supported by legal family, start on a citizenship process. If you're not, back over the fence you go.

And lets end this nonsense about being a citizen if you're born here. You should only be a citizen by birth if your mother is a citizen at the time of your birth.

Posted by Darrell 2007-11-12 20:22|| 2007-11-12 20:22|| Front Page Top

#19 I certainly don't want to go back to Nazi practices, Anonymoose, but life has never been fair. You ignored my previous point: because ICE is busy dealing with some 50 million illegals, they are practically ignoring those trying to come and stay here legally. A decade ago it took my Canadian friends, transferred here by a Fortune 500 corporation, five years of paperwork to become permanent residents. Rantburgers with non-American spouses have reported heading toward a decade with no progress over $10,000 in costs, and repeatedly lost paperwork which has to be restarted, putting their spouses back at the foot of the line. These are people who are obeying the rules, and being punished for it. Do you mean to suggest Rantburger spouses are less deserving than kids whose parents snuck them over the border? Or will make worse citizens?

In a state of infinite resources -- in this case an infinite number of ICE bureaucrats -- all could be accommodated. But we don't have infinite resources. Whom do you choose?

Posted by trailing wife 2007-11-12 22:28|| 2007-11-12 22:28|| Front Page Top

#20 Oh, and if my child were deported, I'd go with her. Because you asked. No I don't know how we'd manage. I don't know how we manage now -- that's Mr. Wife's job in our house.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-11-12 22:33|| 2007-11-12 22:33|| Front Page Top

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