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2011-02-24 Home Front: WoT
Obama the Revolutionary and the Sampson Option
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Posted by Fred 2011-02-24 00:00|| || Front Page|| [2 views ]  Top

#1 
Posted by  Dribble2716 2011-02-24 06:29||   2011-02-24 06:29|| Front Page Top

#2 This article and comment #1 are both incoherent, but then, so is US policy and the present US administration.
That realization is gradually starting to seep into the MSM. ABC news on GMA a few minutes ago said "It's almost as if Obama is a law enforcement negotiator" in the Libyan crisis, dealing with a hostage-taking. Maybe in a few months the MSM will start ridiculing Zero as just a 'community organizer.'
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-02-24 07:34||   2011-02-24 07:34|| Front Page Top

#3 Maybe in a few months the MSM will start ridiculing Zero as just a 'community organizer.'
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418

Dear Lord hasten the day.
Posted by Besoeker 2011-02-24 09:17||   2011-02-24 09:17|| Front Page Top

#4 


They all want to Kill the nasty Jews and they dont love you and they spit on your infidel mother.



Believe me Jews don't REALLY respect your mother if she isn't Jewish as well. Its an Old Testament thing, you know. I've seen it among the Jew/Gentile people in my home town growing up. Islam and Judaism are still very cozy with their middle eastern roots.

Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 09:30||   2011-02-24 09:30|| Front Page Top

#5 Restrain your racist comments Fire and Ice. Your maternal, hometown tribal clan "roots" experiences mean nothing to us I tell you. Nothing! It's his fault...no, HIS fault.... no, his fault. Ahhhhg... my ears, my eyes!!!
Posted by Besoeker 2011-02-24 10:11||   2011-02-24 10:11|| Front Page Top

#6 Believe me Jews don't REALLY respect your mother if she isn't Jewish

Perhaps not. But on the other hand, they don't seem to be actively trying to kill her, convert her or throw a tarp over her head either.
Posted by SteveS 2011-02-24 10:11||   2011-02-24 10:11|| Front Page Top

#7 Please restrain your racist comments

According to traditional Judaism, G-d gave Noah and his family seven commandments to observe when he saved them from the flood. These commandments, referred to as the Noahic or Noahide commandments, are inferred from Genesis Ch. 9, and are as follows: 1) to establish courts of justice; 2) not to commit blasphemy; 3) not to commit idolatry; 4) not to commit incest and adultery; 5) not to commit bloodshed; 6) not to commit robbery; and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal. These commandments are fairly simple and straightforward, and most of them are recognized by most of the world as sound moral principles. Any non-Jew who follows these laws has a place in the world to come.

However, being that I have one Jewish Parent and one who is a gentile why am I racist when I have been the butt of racial epithets made by "full" Jews against me when I have followed everything laid out above, for the simple fact that I am Half Jewish?
Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 10:37||   2011-02-24 10:37|| Front Page Top

#8 because you are new to the burg and half the stuff you dribble is incomprehensible.
Posted by bman 2011-02-24 11:52||   2011-02-24 11:52|| Front Page Top

#9 Excuse me, I asked a valid question. Vitriolic blather and insults aren't a valid answer.
Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 11:55||   2011-02-24 11:55|| Front Page Top

#10 for the simple fact that I am Half Jewish?

F&I.
(a) You're Jewish only if (i) your mother is (the ancient Hebrews were stock breeders), or (ii) you have converted.
(b) WTF Noah has to do with Judaism?
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-02-24 12:00||   2011-02-24 12:00|| Front Page Top

#11 When a religion fails to answer the basic questions of its adherants, or those "born" into it, simply and fairly, they leave the religion. Why is religion in decline? Because of a failure on the part of religions, numbers are down. If Judaism was a business, it would have been out of business awhile ago. And BTW, all the empty churches that are up for sale and being turned into Artist studios and restaurants illustrate that this phenomenon is not religion specific, but based on widespread dissatisfaction.
Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 12:01||   2011-02-24 12:01|| Front Page Top

#12 You tell me, G(r)goru. WTF does Noah have to do with it, or the fact that your religious pillars fail to deal with "halfsies" well. Sort of like Japanese kids with a white Marine father. Phucked coming and going on the playgroud. And the tone of your answer is as exclusionary as the "RELIGION"™ you uphold.
Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 12:03||   2011-02-24 12:03|| Front Page Top

#13 Believe me Jews don't REALLY respect your mother if she isn't Jewish as well. Its an Old Testament thing, you know. I've seen it among the Jew/Gentile people in my home town growing up. Islam and Judaism are still very cozy with their middle eastern roots.

You have several times generalized from your difficult personal experience on this subject, Fire and Ice. I am sorry you experienced bigotry from those who should have loved and accepted you.

However, your experience is limited. Reform Judaism recognizes descent equally through the father as well as through the mother. A Reform Jewish girlfriend of mine was twice reelected as president of the synagogue sisterhood (which put her on the board and the prayerbook committee) and got her son through his bar mitzvah before deciding that she ought to be Jewish rather than Methodist. Clearly she wasn't being discriminated against within the faith community -- and the bar mitzvah was well attended.

Look it up -- the Reform branch is not exactly a minority here in America. You just happen to be related to jerks.
Posted by trailing wife 2011-02-24 12:04||   2011-02-24 12:04|| Front Page Top

#14 Racism goes both ways, and if you don't admit that there are words for kid who have a jewish father and a different race mother, than youze a LIAR.
Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 12:07||   2011-02-24 12:07|| Front Page Top

#15 Nb: Despite the illusions of the Israeli chief rabbinate, they do not define Judaism for the world-wide community. g(r)omgoru is quoting their definition for the purpose of automatic Israeli citizenship, but elsewhere other definitions hold. This will no doubt take several generations to work out.
Posted by trailing wife 2011-02-24 12:08||   2011-02-24 12:08|| Front Page Top

#16 Nb 2 (Sorry, thinking this through slowly): If you have been baptized, or your Jewish parent has, then you are not Jewish, but only "of Jewish descent". Judaism is a culture as well as a religion, yes, but if you choose not to be a member of the religion, you also lose the culture. It's not like being Irish on St. Patrick's Day.

Hope that helps.
Posted by trailing wife 2011-02-24 12:11||   2011-02-24 12:11|| Front Page Top

#17 Racism goes both ways, and if you don't admit that there are words for kid who have a jewish father and a different race mother, than youze a LIAR.

Huh? I've lived a sheltered life, so perhaps that's why I don't have a clue to what you're on about, Fire and Ice.
Posted by trailing wife 2011-02-24 12:14||   2011-02-24 12:14|| Front Page Top

#18 Reform Judaism recognizes descent equally through the father as well as through the mother.

Really? I was told that I'd have to go beg to the Rabbi who would put me through verbal abuse in order to join up, ala Charlotte York Goldblatt, Sex and the City style. Who would want to deal with that? And if the person who told me that was pulling my leg, then I guess I was too easily mislead a Schiksa for dating him.
Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 12:33||   2011-02-24 12:33|| Front Page Top

#19 your religious pillars fail to deal with "halfsies" well

My religion doesn't deal with "halfsies", at all. Perhaps you didn't understand what being stock breeders entails. I'll try another way. Ever heard the expression "Maternity is a matter of fact, paternity is a matter of opinion."? Well, the people who formulated Jewish Law, did. So, no half Jews. Either 100% (mother or conversion) Jew, or not a Jew. So sorry.

p.s. Please don't take the above personally. It is not an attempt to cast aspersions on your paternity---just a clarification. For myself, I've no doubts---you certainly have, what we call, a Jewish mouth.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-02-24 12:43||   2011-02-24 12:43|| Front Page Top

#20 you certainly have, what we call, a Jewish mouth.


You have no idea. Im only quiet when Im asleep.
Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 13:00||   2011-02-24 13:00|| Front Page Top

#21 Back to the Charlotte York Goldenblatt question, why does someone wishing to convert to Judaism have to jump through hoops? And what are the hoops? Please forgive my ignorance, but I've only seen or heard of these things from a few Jewish people I know or on television. All the Jewish relatives of mine on the father's side are non practicing and seem content to stay that way.
Posted by Fire and Ice 2011-02-24 13:04||   2011-02-24 13:04|| Front Page Top

#22 Some officials in the US administration argue that what is happening here is a historical process of "creative destruction", and that the administration must accept the outcome of what happens.

You remember Cash for Clunkers right? Just think of this as Dictators for Democracy. Yeah...thats the ticket.
Posted by DepotGuy 2011-02-24 15:04||   2011-02-24 15:04|| Front Page Top

#23 Really? I was told that I'd have to go beg to the Rabbi who would put me through verbal abuse in order to join up,

When, how long since the rabbi had gotten his/her diploma, and was he/she Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, or other? And again, were either your father or you ever baptized?

Going with the second question first, if the Jewish parent converted at any point to another religion, his Jewishness is lost rather than passed down, and you would have to formally onvert to become Jewish. Again, not like being Irish. Or if your mother's mother took you to church and got you baptized when you were a wee tot, then you would have to formally convert to be Jewish again.

As for the other, only Reform Jews accept descent through the father as well as the mother. For the rest, given how many nice Jewish girls have been raped by marauders through the ghetto over the centuries, recognizing descent through the mother only makes perfect sense, however put out the menfolk might feel about it. And that really is pretty liberated for a solidly patriarchal religion.

Cincinnati has hosted Hebrew Union College rabbinic school since 1875. HUC is the center of Reform Judaism in the United States. The rabbi emeritus of my synagogue used to lecture there. Our synagogue accepts mixed marriages, the offspring of mixed marriages, and even adoptees from China and Hispanic America as Jews (although adoptees must go through an abbreviated formal conversion process to make sure they are choosing the faith that is likely not of their birth parents). You don't have to believe me; write to them yourself and ask.

But if you went to a rabbi about it because you were dating a Jewish man, they would put obstacles in your way as a matter of principle. They don't want people trying to make the marriage easier, they want people drawn by intrinsic faith.

Next comment about the hoops.
Posted by trailing wife 2011-02-24 16:03||   2011-02-24 16:03|| Front Page Top

#24 F&I: Why is religion in decline?

You sure about that?

...According to the report, there will be, by mid-2011, 2,306,609,000 Christians of all kinds in the world, representing 33 percent of world population – a slight percentage rise from mid-2000 (32.7 percent), but a slight percentage drop since 1900 (34.5 percent). Of those 2.3 billion Christians, some 1.5 billion are regular church attenders, who worship in 5,171,000 congregations or "worship centers," up from 400,000 in 1900 and 3.5 million in 2000.

These 2.3 billion Christians can be divided into six "ecclesiastical megablocks": 1,160,880,000 Catholics; 426,450,000 Protestants; 271,316,000 Orthodox; 87,520,000 Anglicans; 378,281,000 "Independents" (i.e., those separated from or unaffiliated with historic denominational Christianity); and 35,539,000 "marginal Christians" (i.e., those professing off-brand Trinitarian theology, dubious Christology, or a supplementary written revelation beyond the Bible).

Compared to the world's 2.3 billion Christians, there are 1.6 billion Muslims, 951 million Hindus, 468 million Buddhists, 458 million Chinese folk-religionists, and 137 million atheists, whose numbers have actually dropped over the past decade, despite the caterwauling of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Co. One cluster of comparative growth statistics is striking: As of mid-2011, there will be an average of 80,000 new Christians per day (of whom 31,000 will be Catholics) and 79,000 new Muslims per day, but 300 fewer atheists every 24 hours....

(Source here; boldface emphasis added.)

As for the notion that "Western liberalist concepts" have no place in other cultures....

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security....

Now, you either agree with that statement or you don't. If you agree with it, then the only legitimate government is one which is subordinate to God and the servant of its citizens, not the god and master of its subjects--and that's just as true in Cairo, Egypt as it is in Cairo, Illinois. If all of that is true, then it cannot also be true that any group of men lacks those inalienable rights and can therefore be condemned to live under tyranny (or its little brother, kleptocracy) in perpetuity.

(Before any of you jump on me about the Muslim Brotherhood, allow me to raise two subsidiary points: (1) a sharia government is just another flavor of tyranny, and is no more legitimate than one based in the divine right of kings or the dialectic of class struggle; and (2) freedom includes by implication the freedom to screw up, and if the people in any one of these countries just swap out one set of goons for another, it does not invalidate their unalienable rights or preclude them from later correction of the error; see also, e.g., United States, 2008 Presidential election in.)

If you don't agree with the Declaration, then the law of the jungle applies, and the only necessary condition for any government is sufficient coercive force to keep it in power, and you have no principled argument against tyranny.
Posted by Mike 2011-02-24 16:25||   2011-02-24 16:25|| Front Page Top

#25 Sorry to all for going off-topic for so long. Fire and Ice, send me an email for the rest -- it's too long and too personal to take advantage of Rantburg's server space. My email should be attached to my name below.

Posted by trailing wife  2011-02-24 16:27||   2011-02-24 16:27|| Front Page Top

#26 Thank you very much, will do tomorrow, I am outta the office today with a migraine.
Posted by Fire and ice 2011-02-24 16:40||   2011-02-24 16:40|| Front Page Top

#27 :) Thanks T.W. and Mike for the outstanding presentation! I always learn more than I knew at Fred's site.
Posted by JohnQC 2011-02-24 18:43||   2011-02-24 18:43|| Front Page Top

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