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2011-03-23 Arabia

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Posted by Fred 2011-03-23 00:00|| || Front Page|| [5 views ] Top

#1 It's time that rule returns to the hand of the people. But what if the people ARE snakes?

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-03-23 04:43|| 2011-03-23 04:43|| Front Page Top

#2 The people have never ruled themselves, which suggests an awful lot of blistered hands when they take hold of self-rule.

Posted by trailing wife 2011-03-23 08:33|| 2011-03-23 08:33|| Front Page Top

#3 The people have never ruled themselves, which suggests an awful lot of blistered hands when they take hold of self-rule.

Good point, but, well, simply swapping out Saleh for some new and improved aftermarket replacement dictator won't improve things any. It's kind of like welfare--the only way to teach people to rely on themselves is to make them actually have to rely on themselves. They're never going to govern themselves unless they get to govern themselves.

...But what if the people ARE snakes?

It all comes down to the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

You either agree with that or you don't. If you agree with it, then it's just as true in Yemen as it is in Ypsilanti and Youngstown--meaning that Yemenis have the same unalienable rights as you do, and the same entitlement to govern themselves as you do--which includes the freedom to make bad choices and screw it up. (See also, e.g., Chicago, City of, municipal government.) Thing is, if you agree with the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, that's the only morally defensible position you can take.

If you don't agree with the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, I'd be curious how you determine who gets to be in charge, and how your solution differs (if at all) from the law of the jungle.

Posted by Mike 2011-03-23 12:20|| 2011-03-23 12:20|| Front Page Top

#4 Mike, I agree with everything you said HOWEVER (yes the infamous one)if you agree with that 2nd paragraph how you determine who gets to be in charge, and how your solution differs (if at all) from the law of the jungle. and the people ARE snakes then the result of implementing said paragraph does, in fact, mean that the law of the jungle will win out.

That's the way life is in many places in the Arab / Muzzie world and why I believe that we have no business in Libya.

Posted by AlanC 2011-03-23 13:31|| 2011-03-23 13:31|| Front Page Top

#5 Alan, I understand the concern, and I don't deny that Middle Eastern political culture could use some major improvement. (So could the political culture in my old hometown of Youngstown, but that's a whole 'nother debate.) On the other hand, it won't get any better if they never get the opportunity to make it better. It used to be said that the Irish were unfit for self-rule; that democracy was incompatible with Asian values; that Latin Americans needed a strongman form of government because they were culturally incapable of living in a democracy.

Posted by Mike 2011-03-23 15:12|| 2011-03-23 15:12|| Front Page Top

#6 Mike, I didn't put that clearly. I have no doubt that on a personal level people in the mideast are capable of democratic self-rule. HOWEVER, yeah that famous one again, your analogies were to ethnicities and not material to what I meant.

My issue is that the cultural millieu won't permit enlightened self rule. We have heard many times from the leading lights of Islam that democracy is antithetical to Islam. As long as Islam holds sway the democratic enlightenment will be quashed. Until that enlightenment takes hold the rule of the jungle (tribal, familial or sect) will hold.

Attaturk tried to forcibly break that model but we now see Turkey devolving into yet another Islamic hell hole. Not there yet but that's the way to bet.

Posted by AlanC 2011-03-23 17:44|| 2011-03-23 17:44|| Front Page Top

#7 Alan has a point about Allan. And that is why I have become convinced that this will need to appear to future historians like a repeat of the thirty years war for Muslims before it is over. After that the dominant culture may be ready to change enough to accommodate the individual desire for personal freedom and political accountability.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-03-23 18:21|| 2011-03-23 18:21|| Front Page Top

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