Archived material Access restricted Article

Today's Front Page   View All of Fri 08/12/2005 View Thu 08/11/2005 View Wed 08/10/2005 View Tue 08/09/2005 View Mon 08/08/2005 View Sun 08/07/2005 View Sat 08/06/2005
2005-08-12 -Short Attention Span Theater-
Key argument for global warming critics evaporates (D@mn those who believe otherwise)
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by BA 2005-08-12 10:09|| || Front Page|| [23 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Once again, the fallacy of trying to interpret 4.5 billion years of climate change by just looking at the last 30 years. The earth does wobble on its axis every 26,000 years, the climate changes because of sun exposure. The sun warms and cools every few thousand years and causes the earth's climate to change with it. The earth has been warming continuously since the end of the last ice age some 120,000 years ago, the earth did not have ice caps from 120 million BC to 65 million BC, and yet the climate Nazis are screaming because of an average .5 degree C climate change.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-08-12 10:36||   2005-08-12 10:36|| Front Page Top

#2 The Earth's wobble on its axis is also significantly decreasing, as is its magnetic field, both obviously caused by acid rain and overpopulation.
Posted by Anonymoose 2005-08-12 11:00||   2005-08-12 11:00|| Front Page Top

#3 Evidence from physical and biological systems indicates that the Earth is currently in a warming phase. Nothing new here. Not long ago, geologically speaking, my current residence was under a half mile or so of ice. Long before that, the arctic was rather tropical. Things change.

Where the debate ( and the chicken-little eco-hysteria ) comes in is over the causes and implications of the facts. Why is it happening and what if anything should or can we do about it. This part gets rather complicated since we are dealing with chaotic, non-linear systems and they just don't respond in ways that we consider 'common-sense'. A small change in an input can cause a huge change in an output. The straw that broke the camels back is a folksy illustration.

An example of how complicated climate can be is a theory by a geologist at Michigan State back in the '80s. He figured that global warming could cause an ice age. Sounds silly, right? How can warming cause cooling? Consider that warming means more water in the atmosphere. More water vapor means more clouds. Clouds reflect heat before it reaches the ground. Things get colder. How a scenario like this actually plays out all depends on the numbers and relationships. Remember we are talking non-linear systems.

Personally, after my first winter in the north in a decade, I'm ready for a little global warming and if I have to burn a pile of truck tires in the driveway to make it happen, so be it.
Posted by SteveS 2005-08-12 11:09||   2005-08-12 11:09|| Front Page Top

#4 Good points, Steve. What I was trying (albeit, very sarcastically) to point out. Even if it is warming, we are not 100% to blame. In fact, I personally doubt if we're 30% to blame. But you try to speak that in those circles and you'll get shouted down quicker than you can say "Just another opinion."
Posted by BA 2005-08-12 11:18||   2005-08-12 11:18|| Front Page Top

#5 That Mars is warming provides more proof of the insidious nature of greenhouse gases.
Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford  2005-08-12 11:29||]">[]  2005-08-12 11:29|| Front Page Top

#6 If everyone will just move to my Left, we can get that wobble cranked up again. The 4° tilt is a "good thing" - the wobble is a "bad thing". I hope that clarifies things.
Posted by .com 2005-08-12 11:57||   2005-08-12 11:57|| Front Page Top

#7 Sorry, .com - can't help you. California is already to your left, in more ways than one...
Posted by Pappy 2005-08-12 12:13||   2005-08-12 12:13|| Front Page Top

#8 I read an interview this morning with the scientist who is famous for predicting the number and strength of hurricanes (but not their movement). It's in Discover Magazine, but not on-line yet, and I'm not about to type the whole thing!

His conclusion: Globe is NOT warming, but his NOAA funds were cut off, he suspects by Gore and the other eco-nazis when he refused to climb on the "Global Warming" bandwagon.

See, it's all GORE's fault!
Posted by Bobby 2005-08-12 12:21||   2005-08-12 12:21|| Front Page Top

#9 which way are you facing, PD?
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-08-12 12:22||   2005-08-12 12:22|| Front Page Top

#10 Atmospheric cooling and surface warming is easily explained. A reduction in particulates in the atmosphere due in part to clean air laws means sunshine that previously was intercepted by particles and as a result warmed the atmosphere is now reaching the earth's surface and warming it.
Posted by phil_b 2005-08-12 13:31||   2005-08-12 13:31|| Front Page Top

#11 Good point, Phil. In fact, I think that was specifically discussed here some months ago (Our cleaning up of the air is actually leading to warmer surface temps.).
Posted by BA 2005-08-12 14:51||   2005-08-12 14:51|| Front Page Top

#12 The sun, Frank, always the sun... even at night. I'm like a morning glory, except not so pretty when opened, nor so shriveled and crinkly-looking when closed. Just like that.
Posted by .com 2005-08-12 15:18||   2005-08-12 15:18|| Front Page Top

#13 for years ive seen the bit about the cooling in the atmosphere shown as the basis for denying the models showing Green house gas based warmed. The guy in Huntsville has been about the most notable scientists ive seen quoted against global warming.

But you can deny this is important all you want.
Posted by liberalhawk 2005-08-12 15:37||   2005-08-12 15:37|| Front Page Top

#14 Yeah, I'm afraid I'll have to agree with liberalhawk. My post here.
Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H.  2005-08-12 17:01||]">[]  2005-08-12 17:01|| Front Page Top

#15 So... my beer isn't really colder, it just seems that way 'cuz the day is hotter?
Posted by Hyper">Hyper  2005-08-12 17:45||   2005-08-12 17:45|| Front Page Top

#16 colder? yes in a macro sense™
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-08-12 18:16||   2005-08-12 18:16|| Front Page Top

#17 In the short term if there were true global warming the British Isles would tend to get colder, theroreticaly. What would happen is the polar ice cap melts and the resultant colder water and increased iceburgs would flow into the Gulf Stream which now keeps the British Isles warmer than one would expect because of how far north they are. Ultimately, if the warming trend lasted long enough, the increased warming of the earth's surface and the increased warming of the oceans would offset thid effect. This assumes the Gulf Stream would not change. Herein lies the rub. The systems are so complex as to approach caos so any predictions are really guesses.
Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues  2005-08-12 21:30||   2005-08-12 21:30|| Front Page Top

23:58 Captain America
23:52 DMFD
23:51 Zhang Fei
23:41 Red Dog
23:38 Elmasing Cromoting5441
23:37 Mike Sylwester
23:28 Barbara Skolaut
23:22 Long Hair Republican
23:19 DMFD
23:03 Cyber Sarge
22:54 Zhang Fei
22:53 Frank G
22:50 Frank G
22:47 Frank G
22:37 JosephMendiola
22:36 mom
22:32 Robert Crawford
22:30 Robert Crawford
22:27 JosephMendiola
22:27 USMC_Vet
22:18 mom
22:16 JosephMendiola
22:07 OldSpook
22:04 Captain America

Search WWW Search