Arab News
Threatened with impeachment by the National Assembly (parliament), Kuwait's Minister of Information Muhammad Abol-Hassan has submitted his resignation to Prime Minister Sheikh Sabah Ahmad Al Jaber, it was officially confirmed yesterday. Abol-Hassan faced a storm of protests from the Parliament and the press when the state-owned television broadcast a documentary about the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat last week. In it Arafat was described as a hero, a combatant for faith, and a martyr. Many Kuwaitis, however, regard Arafat as a treacherous opportunist who, having received vast sums of money from Kuwait, supported Saddam Hussein's invasion and annexation of Kuwait in 1990.
Noticed that, did they?
Members of Parliament published an open letter last week calling for Abol-Hassan's impeachment. His resignation appears to be a pre-emptive measure designed to prevent a debate in the Parliament. A minister who has resigned traditionally stays away from parliamentary sessions until the prime minister decides his fate. Abol-Hassan's critics say his resignation is a maneuver to avoid impeachment, and that he has already agreed with the prime minister that he should be reinstated once the storm blows over. "Arafat was a traitor to the Palestinian and the Arab peoples in general," says Parliament member Muhammad Barrak-Matir. "It is a shame that our national television should describe the traitor as a hero and a combatant."
Posted by: Fred ||
11/14/2004 2:00:00 PM ||
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Clues for sale.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 14:25 Comments ||
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Look like many Kuwait stocked up at Clues R Us during the FGW.
#3
...IIRC, there was a 'Palestinian Brigade' formed under the control of the Iraqi Army in Kuwait and made up of Palestinian men who were guest workers in that country. Given the way 'guest workers' are treated in even the most liberal Persian Gulf nations, it does not take much imagination to guess what these worthies did to their former employers. Hard to imagine anyone - especially former Minister Abol-Hassan - forgetting that.
That assumes of course that the former minister was in Kuwait during the occupation.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
11/14/2004 14:48 Comments ||
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A WHITEHALL whistleblower has criticised the government's immigration policy by revealing the "lies and false excuses" that enable scores of failed asylum seekers to settle in Britain. They have been allowed to remain here after claiming that they are gay, depressed or suffering from minor ailments such as headaches, nightmares and stomach ulcers. Among the most dubious excuses revealed in court records are:
A woman who said she would be persecuted if she returned to India because she had committed adultery.
A man from Serbia and Montenegro who appealed against deportation because he had stomach ulcers and suffered from "sleep disturbance".
A refugee whose lawyers said he could not answer questions due to "mild depression".
A woman who said she needed to look after her brother who suffered "high blood pressure and a lack of self-esteem".
A man from the former Yugoslavia who said he suffered from "nightmares" and "anguished" stress.
David Davis, shadow home secretary, said: "This is continuing evidence of the chaos and confusion of Labour's shambolic immigration system."
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
11/14/2004 6:41:05 AM ||
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The Government really have f'ed up over asylum. Blair's let the bleeding heart lunatics run the show for too long.
#2
This very well might be one of the causes to Labour's coming downfall.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
11/14/2004 6:48 Comments ||
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This very well might be one of the causes to Labour's coming downfall.
Right now, and ever since the last election, I'd put my money on another Labour win next spring. It's more a case of the opposition being too damn incompetent than people thinking Labour deserves a record third term. The Lib Dems are a sick joke, as usual, and by far the worst of the three main parties, whilst the Tories under Michael Howard have utterly failed to make gains against Blair. People don't really want to vote for Blair (each has his reasons - for many on the Left it's Iraq, and Blair's inexcusably close ties to Bush, for the Right it's Blair's europhilia, and failure to deal with red tape and bureaucracy, and for some it's a mixture of issues), but they don't want to vote for the alternatives either. I predict even more voter apathy than last time round, which would tend to help the smaller and more extreme parties, and/like the Lib Dems. One bad scenario would be a 'no overall majority', and the Lib Dems allying with Labour (they never would support the Tories) and getting their stubby deformed little fingers on the levers of power.
The Tories have potential support for their tougher-than-the-others attitudes towards asylum. Events could yet make that a much bigger issue than it currently is (continued violence in the Netherlands or unrest over here). But they themselves are still very unpopular, and challenged by UKIP. UKIP probably won't do anywhere near as well as they did at the last, European, elections though.
It's still up in the air, but were there an election tomorrow, the Brits would vote to remain with the devil they know.
Tony Blair reignited the row over Guantanamo Bay last night by claiming that former British detainees had been "causing difficulties again" after their release. The Prime Minister's unexpected comments, in a television interview, came as it was confirmed that the five former terrorism suspects freed this year from the US military base on Cuba are the subject of round-the-clock police surveillance. A senior Whitehall official said that the men were under suspicion and claimed that the activities of more than one was "worrying" police.
Mr Blair's remarks were immediately branded "highly defamatory, misleading and irresponsible" by Gareth Peirce, the solicitor for three of the former detainees. She [sic - actually is a woman] called on the Prime Minister to give a full clarification. After his talks with President George W Bush at the White House, Mr Blair was asked by Adam Boulton, the Sky TV political editor, whether the four Britons still at Guantanamo Bay would also be sent home. Mr Blair replied: "We are in discussions with them. It's difficult, because we have to make sure our own security is going to be properly protected if we have people back in this country. As you know, there have been incidents of people who have been back and causing difficulties again, so you need to be careful." Snipped - Usual solicitors' 'butter wouldn't melt' bullshit.
Iqbal, Rasul, Ahmed and al-Harith have started legal action for £5.5 million damages against the US government, alleging torture. A relative of Mr Dergoul, said last night: "After the disgusting treatment of Tarek at the hands of the Americans, he has one arm and is severely traumatised and cannot cope with life. One arm?! When was that picked up? Must've been a while after he got back. No one mentioned it before. Bit of an oversight by the PR people.
What kind of criminal act does Mr Blair think that he can carry out?" I'm stumped. Does Sharia take an interest in traditionally one-armed activities?
The five were flown to London last March and released without charge after being interrogated. The four Britons still in Cuba, Feroz Abassi, Moazzam Begg, Martin Mubanga and Richard Belmar, expect to face charges within six weeks.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
11/14/2004 5:24:35 AM ||
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I see that the UK has it's share of LLL lawyers to deal with too. I wonder if the US can counter with charges of unlawful travel and aiding terrorists? Or does anyone believe these five just went out to the market and mistakenly ended up in Afghanistan armed with a Ak-47?
A Web site used by a Chechen warlord to claim responsibility for September's school siege in Russia has reopened, one month after it was closed by the Finnish company that hosted it. Finnish news agency STT reported Saturday that the site, www.kavkavcenter.com, was now hosted on a Swedish server with a backup in Finland. It was last open for a few days in mid-October. STT quoted the Finnish businessman who rented out the server at the time as saying it was now clear that the Web Site was not illegal and that he had therefore decided to help reopen it. It was not immediately clear who had closed the site in Finland. Before opening in Finland it was based on a Lithuanian server until authorities in the Baltic country shut it down in September after pressure from Moscow.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/14/2004 1:29:32 AM ||
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Rep. Roh Hoe-chan of the progressive Democratic Labor Party (DLP) claimed Thursday the planned realignment of U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) is based on a U.S. plan to launch surgical strikes against North Korea.
Speaking in a parliamentary interpellation session on security and foreign affairs, Roh asserted the plan was codenamed "OPLAN 5027-04," which was first revealed by North Korea in August when it accused the U.S. of preparing to attack the North with high-tech weapons...
The first term lawmaker went on to say that OPLAN 5027-02, drawn up after the 9/11 incident, also contains a plan to assassinate North Korean leader Kim Jong-il and to pre-emptively attack North Korea without consulting the South Korean government.
On Sunday Japan's Kyodo News Agency reported that as part of U.S. scenario "5027," which is produced every two years, 25 jet bombers flew simulated missions at an air force base in North Carolina to drop mock nuclear bombs on a firing range in Florida between January and June 1998...
Kneeling in the sodden, charred remains of the primary school, Hari Boukameans took a Stanley knife to a melted computer. He twisted and he gouged -- trying to recover the hard drive, hoping to salvage a little bit of the precious Dutch culture of live and let live from the flames of hatred that consumed his workplace. The Moroccan gave up. He slumped in the smelly, black mass of ashes. "This is really evil," he groaned. Spray painting a white cross and White Power slogans on to the grey brick walls of the Muslim school the previous night, Dutch racists had set the place ablaze. The fire gutted the school and traumatised this comfortable town of 40 000 in the middle of the Netherlands. "We never used to have problems here. Now everything is destroyed," said the computer engineer as teachers embraced in tears and strangers arrived from neighbouring towns bearing flowers and cards.
Uden is in mourning for the loss of its only Islamic school. And the Netherlands is in mourning for the loss of its innocence and optimism after the murder by a Moroccan Islamist of the film-maker and Muslim-baiter Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam 10 days ago. "Normally you see this sort of thing on the television, from Amsterdam or from a foreign country," said Jacques Bonnier (39), a financial adviser in the town. "Now it's come to your own town and to your own life. What comes next?"
When thousands assembled to grieve for Van Gogh in Amsterdam this week, they pleaded to no one in particular: "Give us back our old Holland." But Boukameans fears that the old Netherlands he has enjoyed for 31 years lies buried among the cinders of Uden, where 120 Muslim under-12s no longer have a school to go to. "These fires and attacks are revenge for the murder of Van Gogh," said Stefaan, an 18-year-old student. "Ordinary people are looking for revenge, educated people are saying that's not the way we do things here. We prefer to make deals. But times are changing. It's a kind of war."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/14/2004 1:08:54 AM ||
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#1
maybe we should have limits on what you can say. I am from Turkey.
Will apostasy laws be far behind?
Want a lever? Outlaw any creed that has jihad as a tenent.
Go teach your jihad to Morocans in Morocco but leave Holand alone.
#2
"Weâre not going to accept this. Things will get worse," said Suleiman Sinan, a Turkish teacher at the school.
Not quite a threat, but clearly expecting escalation.
Posted by: Tom ||
11/14/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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"Weâre not going to accept this. Things will get worse," said Suleiman Sinan, a Turkish teacher at the school.
#5
America will soon also have to take the following steps that Holland should take now:
1) Totally OUTLAW all Wahhabi, Deobandi & Sufi mosques;
2) Bar all Saudis from entering Holland;
3) Kick all Saudis that are in the country now out of Holland;
4) Cut all contact with Saudi Arabia.
#6
leaddog2, well, one glitch there... the majority of jihadis in Holland (and Spain) are Moroccans. In France that would be Algerians. Notice that quite a few are second generation residents.
#7
BH, you know better than to question the conclusions reporters come to. Next thing you know He Who Shall Not Be Named will be here demanding an explanation.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/14/2004 11:50 Comments ||
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I'm just sayin'. They need to have a little balance and avoid using terms that reflect bias on the part of the news service. After all, one man's racist arsonist is another man's freedom fighter.
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/14/2004 11:57 Comments ||
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Leaddog - I could be wrong (and if I am, someone here with the necessary knowledge will correct me), but I think Sufi Muslims are not the problem. IIUC, Sufis are mystics, not terrorists, and are hated and even oppressed by both Wahhabis and Sunnis.
.com, you probably know. Is that right? If not, what's the straight 411 on Sufis?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
11/14/2004 12:00 Comments ||
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You don't by any means have to be a racist to be an Islamophobe. Would a racist white Dutchman be a suppporter of Ayaan Hirsi Ali; AFAIK the most vocal critic of Islam still left alive in the Netherlands? This reporter is using the Left's favourite tactic when it comes to issues of cultural disharmony: putting it down to race hatred.
#14
Iâm neither a historian nor an expert on Islam but the impression Iâve gathered since 911 is:
Sufiâs tend to be mystic and are not considered true Muslims by fundamentalists.
That does not mean that Sufiâs donât engage in jihad. The Sufi teacher has strong influence over his students. If the teacher is inclined toward violence the students will follow. Historically Sufiâs played a significant role in past rebellions against the British in Iraq.
#15
"If nothing is done, according to Bolkestein, cities such as Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Utrecht will have "non-European" majorities within a couple of generations"
Been there, done that: LA already has a non-white majority population. New York will soon, as will in all likelihood San Francisco, Dallas, Denver, perhaps Chicago and other major US cities.
Nothing better illustrates the failure of Europe's approach relative to ours. For the US, a non-white, non-Euro descent population is not a problem because we do not conceive of our national identity in terms of race. Also because, by reducing the state's heavy hand and giving immigrants huge economic opportunities in a freewheeling, open capitalist economy, we co-opt separatist religious minorities and give them a real ownership stake in society.
My guess is that this racial/cultural conflict will eventually force Europe's elites to recognize its deeper roots: the failure of heavy-handed state intervention in economic and social life, an intervention that turns potential strivers into resenters. And that will push true strivers out of Europe, to America's great benefit. Will they ever learn?
#16
lex: Our national identity may not be defined in terms of race, but that doesn't stop us having problems with groups who define themselves in racial terms and in opposition to our "national definition." I've heard too many ghetto types (ghetto is a culture, not a race) who offhandedly claim that they're not part of the "white man's world." (I ride the bus a lot--and run into a bigger cross-section of the population there than I do at work.)
Posted by: James ||
11/14/2004 16:03 Comments ||
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Yes, we do indeed have a major problem with a small minority of one small minority group that happens to be overwhelmingly concentrated in the core of our great cities. An exception to my point. But nearly all the population growth in the big cities is coming from latino and asian-americans, and it's these rising minority groups whom I had in mind.
#18
Barbara concerning Sufi-ism. Like all(?)religions it has its thinkers and its followers, but in my experience Sufi-ism teaches you are responsible for your life (None of that Inshallah Sh**) and in my opinion it has a lot of similarities with Buddhism. Concerning Sufis role in rebellions, that would be consistent with their philosophy of - you got a problem, then its up to you to figure out a solution and do something about it.
#19
Lex it's far more than one small minority group and merely being a striver does nothing to guarantee assimilation into American culture. A few notable strivers you may have heard of: Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Adolph Hitler, Noam Chomsky, George Soros, Nancy Pelosi, etc. (I could literally go on for hours). None of them would have / have assimilated successfully into American culture. As a matter of fact the one thing they all share is a loathing of everything that is American culture.
#20
I want to know what "White Power" slogans they used. Is "down with Islam" now synonymous with "white power?"
In reality, if the anti-Islamic attacks were the work of white supremacists, does that detract from the reality of the problem with Muslim extremists in the lowlands? (Are we all supposed to surrender and give them our womens now?)
Methinks the lefty reporter was playing a little fast and loose with definitions and relevance.
#21
AZCat, you missed the whole point. America does not attract people like Chomsky or Stalin or Hitler. Chomsky was a spoiled brat born in the US, btw.
"Striver" as I use it refers mainly to people engaged in nonpolitical activities, business and the professions primarily. In my lexicon the opposite of a "striver" is a "resenter". Strivers are concerned with creating a stable and prosperous environment for their family and contributing to the larger community. Resenters are more interested in tearing down the larger community.
A good example of the differences between the two is found by comparing the Irish who emigrated to the US, and became the wealthiest ethnic group here, with their relatives who stayed in Ireland and are notorious for their class envy, resentment and hostility toward anyone who's economically successful.
Religious minorities in this country have an outstanding record of success in these areas, and I see no reason that hardworking, striving, well-educated scientists, doctors and entrepreneurs who happen to be muslim will not also achieve and contribute to this country as the quakers, mormons, catholics, jews, and sikhs before them.
#22
Lex - I didn't miss your point, I just don't agree with it (and I'm well aware that Chomsky is a native).
If Europe suddenly becomes very anti-Muslim, the first Muslims to flee will be those with the strongest religious convictions, the very ones who'll be nearly impossible to assimilate into any western society. Even if that's wrong and a cross-section flee all you'll accomplish by opening the US to them en masse is the permanent installation of a critical mass of Musims capable of keeping the apostates in the crowd in line.
Don't believe it? Read up on why many American Muslims were silent following 9/11. Many Muslim immigrants, even here, are afraid of the radicals in their midst. Until and unless you develop a 100% foolproof screen for those (impossible IMHO) you'll do more harm than good with mass immigration.
The problem lies in our society's inherent ability to assimilate newcomers. Take in too many in any one group and you build a persistent subclass. Ther more insular & virulent the beliefs of the newcomers, the smaller the number required to instantiate the subclass. I submit that American Muslim fears of the radicals in their midst is strong evidence that we've already passed the point of forming the subclass. Larger numbers will only serve to reinforce the meme.
Slightly EFL
The streets of Rotterdam are silent apart from a whistling wind. Flickering neon signs advertising Halal butchers and falafel bars punctuate the grey facades of the tower blocks. Splintered glass from a broken window that no one has bothered to repair is slowly trampled into the autumn leaves. In the distance, a mosque's minarets pierce the fog and drizzle. Almost half the population of Rotterdam is of non-Dutch origin and the city is studded by grim ghettoes. Fifteen-year-old Rafih Bourdin has hunched his shoulders up against the cold. His head is wrapped in a red bandana and covered by a heavy, hooded top that almost entirely obscures his eyes. "Things are going to change for the worse," he says, his breath like cigarette smoke against the cold air. "We have less respect for each other. Because Mohammed Bouyeri killed van Gogh, the white Dutch now feel that all Muslims are responsible. They are looking at us differently."
The Netherlands, with its reputation for liberalism, tolerance and freedom of speech, has never been so divided. Since the murder of the filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a radical Muslim a fortnight ago, the country's 30-year-old experiment in tolerant multi-culturalism has begun to fail. Van Gogh, an outspoken public figure and critic of Islam, was gunned down and stabbed to death while cycling to work in Amsterdam on November 2. Mohammed Bouyeri, a 26-year-old Dutch Moroccan, allegedly shot his victim six times, knifed him as he lay dying and impaled a note of Islamic quotations on his body. When the police arrived, they discovered that the corpse had been almost decapitated.
His murder came only two years after the assassination of Pym Fortuyn, the populist anti-immigration politician who was killed by an animal rights extremist of ethnic Dutch origin. Mr Fortuyn found his best support in Rotterdam. But even on the streets of Amsterdam - for so long a bastion of liberalism - the feeling is that multi-culturalism has gone too far. "We have been too tolerant," says Joyce de Witt, 39, an office worker from Diemen, a town south of Amsterdam. "We need tougher immigration policies. For 20 or 30 years, we have let things slip and let extremists live under our noses. Dutch society is segregated because a lot of first generation immigrants didn't learn our language and passed on this separateness to their children."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Bulldog ||
11/14/2004 6:01:19 AM ||
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Sad that the entire world is slow to learn that not all of Islam is at peace. The Dutch got off cheap, it cost us 3k people. I hope the rest of Europestan catches on soon or they will suffer too.
The President is to come to London in three months' time, reciprocating Tony Blair's trip to Washington last week. Mr Bush's visit, likely to be part of a wider tour of European countries, will pose a problem for the leaders of both main parties as they gear up for a poll expected to be held in or before May. For Mr Blair, the presence of the President carries the risk of costing him support among Labour voters implacably opposed to Britain's involvement in the American-led campaign in Iraq. The visit will also put Michael Howard, the Conservative leader, on the spot because it will reopen the row between the Tory high command and the White House over Mr Howard's attacks on Mr Blair over his decision to go to war in Iraq.
Karl Rove, Mr Bush's closest adviser, is reported to have told Mr Howard's aides two months ago: "You can forget about him meeting the President." Last week, in an interview with The Telegraph, Mr Howard refused to express pleasure on Mr Bush's re-election and added: "I am not going to be told by the White House how to do my job." With an election looming, protocol dictates that Mr Bush would have to meet the Tory leader as well as the Prime Minister, even though he last week declared himself a firm political supporter of Mr Blair, calling him a "big thinker" and a "rock-solid leader". It is indeed a funny old world...
The Telegraph understands that Mr Bush's trip is likely to be centred on meeting leaders both in the European Union and Nato countries. The official said: "The President has made it clear that he wants to work with the EU and with Nato. We wanted to send a very early signal to Europe that we are going to be coming there and that we want to work with Europe."
Posted by: Bulldog ||
11/14/2004 5:31:38 AM ||
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BD, I thought Tony was going to call a snap election for February. If he does after this visit, I'd have to say he's got basketballs and a good chance at citizenship like Winnie's.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 10:03 Comments ||
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I thought Tony was going to call a snap election for February.
It's been rumoured, Mrs D, but most pundits still think May 1st is the probable date. I'm guessing a Bush visit in late winter makes a February election even more unlikely. I doubt Blair would gamble that Bush's presence would help him win more votes. Possible, but I doubt it. Bush certainly has his admirers over here, but, like most of the rest of the world, he has a fair few more detractors. GuardianTV The BBC can claim a large part of the credit for that.
As President Bush prepares for a second term, his Republican allies on the House Government Reform Committee are considering legislation bolstering executive powers. Government Reform Chairman Tom Davis, R-Va., wants to expedite the process for confirming presidential appointees and reinstate executive reorganization authority, which was granted intermittently to presidents between 1932 and 1984. That would allow the president to propose changes in the structure of government agencies, then submit them to Congress for approval on an up-or-down vote. The authority would minimize the turf wars that inevitably crop up when new agencies such as the Homeland Security Department are created, a Davis spokesman said. Although Congress has not granted the power in two decades, presidents have used it to implement sweeping organizational changes, including creating OMB and the Federal Emergency Management Agency... The executive branch long has complained about the ordeal appointees face in seeking Senate confirmation, a process that has become slower over the years, Davis' spokesman said. Some of Bush's nearly 500 nominees waited 14 months before Senate confirmation... In combination with a push to re-authorize a constitutionally-acceptable line item veto, Bush is getting a running start on his next term.
The Pentagon is building its own Internet, the military's world wide web for the wars of the future. The goal is to give all American commanders and troops a moving picture of all foreign enemies and threats - "a God's-eye view" of battle. This "Internet in the sky," Peter Teets, under secretary of the Air Force, told Congress, would allow "marines in a Humvee, in a faraway land, in the middle of a rainstorm, to open up their laptops, request imagery" from a spy satellite, and "get it downloaded within seconds."
The Pentagon calls the secure network the Global Information Grid, or GIG. Conceived six years ago, its first connections were laid six weeks ago. It may take two decades and hundreds of billions of dollars to build the new war net and its components. Skeptics say the costs are staggering and the technological hurdles huge. Vint Cerf, one of the fathers of the Internet and a Pentagon consultant on the war net, said he wondered if the military's dream was realistic. "I want to make sure what we realize is vision and not hallucination," Mr. Cerf said. "This is sort of like Star Wars, where the policy was, 'Let's go out and build this system,' and technology lagged far behind,'' he said. "There's nothing wrong with having ambitious goals. You just need to temper them with physics and reality."
Advocates say networked computers will be the most powerful weapon in the American arsenal. Fusing weapons, secret intelligence and soldiers in a globe-girdling network - what they call net-centric warfare - will, they say, change the military in the way the Internet has changed business and culture. "Possibly the single most transforming thing in our force,'' Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has said, "will not be a weapons system, but a set of interconnections."
Posted by: Fred ||
11/14/2004 1:38:36 PM ||
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#1
Who said that at some point technology is indistinguishable from magic? ...
I read it and cannot but notice parallels with Mahabharata and some parts of Vedic Shastras.
#4
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -- Arthur C. Clarke
Posted by: Darth VAda ||
11/14/2004 15:02 Comments ||
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Someone needs to take Vint Cerf aside and 'splain to him that the first set of intercepter missiles for "Star Wars" are on line.
Not that he'd listen. It's more important to have the important position, politically, than have the least bit grasp on the facts.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/14/2004 16:23 Comments ||
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I'm sure to NYT reporter the internet is like magic, but to anyone who understands it, its remarkably simple. Its power is its simplicity. I think the clever and high risk things are what they intend to do with it, not the network itself.
BTW, I believe the "Any sufficiently advanced technology .." predates ACC. I think it used to be called the Harvard Law.
#7
I hope none of it runs under Windows ... it would be *very bad* if it got hacked.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
11/14/2004 19:12 Comments ||
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There are some interesting implications to this. Will this system talk to a differ system-ie,the similar system the EU wants to build. Will the US export military equipment that has the system?
It looks like military planners believe US in future will fight alone,and bring in allies to handle rebuilding/reconstruction/peace-keeping.
Posted by: Stephen ||
11/14/2004 20:05 Comments ||
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#9
Build the onion, peel the onion, build the onion, peel the onion... TCP/IP, to the great surprise of its Parc Place inventor, just flat works. Amazing fact, that.
Stephen - mebbe they just didn't want to take a meeting... and another... and another... etc.
#10
If you're designing for a limited user base, you can get really fascist about things - hard encryption end-to-end, for example, and a specialized TCP/IP protocol that drops unauthorized (unticketed) packets at the first switch they hit while setting alarm flags fingering the transmitting IP. Might even be able to get physical coordinates of peepers...
#11
Call it STAR WARS, SPAWAR, SATWAR, or GLOBAL MISSLE DEFENSE, etc. the bottom line is IT WORKS, AND DUBYA IS PROCEEDING FULL STEAM AHEAD. International [now Global] Leftism-Socialism-Communism-Progressives dev their anti-USA 2020 max timeline and are running scared because Dubya, America, and GMD is about to their only and greatest ace, the NUCLEAR BULLY STICK, as OBSOLETE, IRRELEVANT, AND DEAD AS THE DODO, ALL BUT OFFICIALLY GUARANTEEING THE EARTH/TERRA FIRMA BELONGS TO AMERICA AND WESTERN DEMOCRACY-CAPITALISM! This is why the Left are tripping all over themselves, inverting and perverting and converting and subverting anyone and everyone, anything and everything, mis-informing and disinforming, to FORCE AMERICA UNDER NATIONAL SOCIALISM, i.e. COMMUNISM, and "SOCIALIST" OWG BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, AND BY 2020 BEFORE AMERICAN GMD AND AMERICAN BATTLESPACE DOMINANCE AND STILL EXPANDING AMERICAN HYPERPOWER-PLUS AND AMERICAN/US-STYLE GLOBAL CONSUMERISM GETS TOO STRONG FOR ANYONE ANDOR EVERYONE TO RESIST! Communism = Islam/Rad Islam > BETTER FOR EVERYONE TO FAIL, OR BE DESTROYED, THAN FOR SOCIALISM, includ FAITH/GOD-BASED SOCIALISM, TO LOSE FACE OR POWER! Gorbachevism > iff the East can not be brought up to the standards of the West, the West will be brought down to the standards of the East - IOW, COMMUNISM/LEFTSOCIALISM WILL WIN BY LOSING AGS AMERICA, NOT WIN BY WINNING!
Posted by: Fred ||
11/14/2004 1:28:53 PM ||
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Nay, that's just a box of Cuban cigars.
Posted by: Capt America ||
11/14/2004 22:18 Comments ||
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#2
Perhaps this is totally far-fetched, perhaps not, but witnessing the sheer rabid hate expressed recently by so many Kerry partisans, is it not conceivable that of the less-balanced DU/Kos types will make common cause with AQ in hopes of staging a strike against the hated infidel red staters?
Wasn't Terry Nichols in touch with AQ agents in the Philippines? If the wacko right can make common cause with AQ, why not the wacko left? Not so far-fetched, is it?
#4
Why bother with the land route? The whole west coast is open to a rich playboy with a yacht. Just load up an exceptioanlly large suitcase . . . pull into a smalltown harbor and unload it to an agent. . .
Posted by: Jame Retief ||
11/14/2004 23:48 Comments ||
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#5
I personally am beginning to suspect that the LLL (or at least the MSM) already have common cause with Al-Q against America.
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/14/2004 11:44 ||
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#1
Start paying a bounty to Mexicans for any non-Mexican trying to sneak across the US border, anything from $1,000 to the sky if we catch them with a nuclear weapon. There would be Mexicans 50 deep on their side of the border just hoping to catch one. You couldn't smuggle a Arabic mosquito across that border.
#3
Anonymouse, interesting idea... you should contact the department of homeland security and recommed it. One point I would make is that the mexicans would be afraid to report it even for the money because they are in fact involved in illegal immigration and are fearful of being busted.
What you could instead promise is that you won't be prosecuted, we won't ask questions about you illegal immigration operation and more importantly we'll provide you with a work permit to legally work in the US if your info results in a stopped non-mexican crossing.
#4
Cornīliës-
I ran that program for the only serious target here, Shaw AFB. I'm outside the blue ring by about two miles, but my concern is that my home's propane tank would be facing the fireball. Hell of a thing to wake up to on a Sunday morning.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
11/14/2004 12:14 Comments ||
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#5
Damn_Proud_American, ditto that, a great idea, Anonymoose.
#7
Shipman, the reason the web-app has been calibrated to 10KT is that it is the presumed upper limit of a device smuggled in by jihadis, because of logistics of dealing with higher yield devices.
Multiple airburts of 300KT devices are not likely (except West Coast targetted by Norks).
#10
Have there been any *specific* announcements by the administration as to what would happen to countries found to have 'assisted' in any nuclear (or WMD in general) attack on the US or territories?
I believe that during the cold war the Soviets knew about SIOP and the consequences of any attack on US soil (surely one of the reasons why a nuclear exchange never happened), but I'm not aware of anything specific today.
Does Iran, Syria, Saudi et al realise what stakes they're playing for now? I think it was OldSpook yesterday who posted a suggestion he'd sent to President Bush a few years ago - one US city is nuked, 269 cities in the ME cease to exist 5 hours later...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
11/14/2004 16:23 Comments ||
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#11
But the problem is that the mullahs always use proxies. The nuke attack on US soil will almost certainly be via proxies delivering dirty nukes via something almost impossible to trace such as container cargo.
#12
So what lex? We tell them they are ashes if a nuke goes off. Even if it's not in the U. S. It's their problem to make sure it doesn't go off, not just ours. We tell them that as long as they are a rogue state our default assumption will be that any nuke detonation started with them, regardless of who pushed the button. You want to play in the big leagues you've got to take big league risks. We aren't suing them in court, we're playing for keeps. If politics ain't bean bag, international relations ain't JDAM.
Tell the NorKs the same. And anybody else who wants to play with these toys.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 17:28 Comments ||
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#13
lex .. No need to trace it. A general warning to all the NORKs, Iranians, Saudi we get hit you get hurt.
That would dampen most sane folk, but we are not dealing with sane folk. So what a mother should do is punish all of them no matter who did it.
#14
I'm with Mrs Davis here. We know the mullahs use proxies, and in the 'old days' they knew that we knew that, so we used 'diplomacy'. This was a dumb idea even then, nowadays its bordering on suicidal.
It's time for some US officials to talk (covertly?) to members of the Iranian, Syrian, North Korean, Saudi and other governments who are known for using proxies, that there's a new doctrine in town - if there's an attack on the US, then the following targets disappear, and they'll be a selection from *all* of the above countries...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
11/14/2004 17:57 Comments ||
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#15
Check here what would be the results of a 10KT blast in the area of your zip code.
Hmmm, I tried this and it just came back with a popup that contained a huge smiley face and the phrase "Hundreds of thousands of dead moonbats! Hu-ah!"
Government counterterror experts say the threat of an attack by al-Qaida remains a significant concern, perhaps even this year, although the nation safely passed the benchmark of the Nov. 2 election. The Homeland Security Department this week lowered the terror alert for the financial sector in New York, Washington and northern New Jersey that was in place for three months. But authorities still caution the possibility of an attack is just as high as it was a month ago. ``The whole notion taking a deep breath and saying, 'Wow, we got past this and now we are OK for a while' is a ... very dangerous train of thought,'' Homeland Security Deputy Secretary James Loy told reporters in a conference call Wednesday.
Since April, U.S. authorities have warned of an increased risk of attack to disrupt democracy, often pointing to the now-passed elections. But they remain concerned about the upcoming holidays, the Jan. 20 presidential inauguration and beyond. Loy said the time period does not have a termination date. He said a relaxed posture for financial institutions - from code orange, or heightened, to code yellow, or elevated - came because government and private-sector officials had run drills, improved security and taken other measures to ``harden'' the potential targets. The passing of the election, too, was on the minds of authorities.
Now, counterterrorism officials are analyzing why al-Qaida may not have attacked and what may be ahead. Among other efforts, experts in and out of government have been combing through two tapes released by al-Qaida in the two weeks before the election - first by a man calling himself ``Azzam the American'' and another by Osama bin Laden, leader of the terrorist group. In a recent analysis, Ben Venzke, president of the private IntelCenter and a consultant to government counterterrorism agencies, said three bin Laden videos directly addressing Americans - in October of 2002, 2003 and 2004 - were followed between one and 53 days by attacks. Venzke said he didn't know why the videos come annually in October. However, Venzke said he was particularly concerned about an attack directly against U.S. interests now because the new tapes represent ``the most significant effort by al-Qaida to address the American people in the last couple years.''
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/14/2004 1:11:40 AM ||
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Deep, unresolved tensions between new leaders and senior career officers at the Central Intelligence Agency threaten to set off a rebellion within the agency's clandestine service, according to current and former intelligence officials. The tensions pit the new intelligence chief, Porter J. Goss, against the C.I.A.'s directorate of operations, the most powerful and secretive part of the agency. Winning allegiance from the career spies within the clandestine service is widely regarded as essential to the success of any intelligence chief. For now, former intelligence officials say, many career C.I.A. officers do not know whether to regard Mr. Goss as someone dispatched by the White House to punish the agency for past failures, or to rebuild its capabilities to make it stronger.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/14/2004 12:48:22 AM ||
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#1
DO needs reform, badly. And unfortunately, the types of barnicles in there can only be removed, not reformed.
And until they get the leakers and obstructionists and careerists out of the way, the agency will remain disfunctional and will put the nation at risk of a nuc or chem 9/11.
Got the Soviet economy wrong.
Suprised by collapse of Soviet Union.
Suprised by Iraq attack on Kuwait.
Couldn't tell US where a Chinese Enbassy was.
Still can't confirm if Sudan facility was a bio/chem weapons lab.
Didn't know extent of Libya's nuke program.
Can't tell if N.Korea has nukes or not.
Didn't know about Pakistani nuke-knowledge pipeline.
Had/has no clue about Saddam's weapons programs.
Had no clue of extent of Saddam's abuse of Oil for Food.
Didn't know Oil for Food money was bribing France and Russia.
Couldn't infiltrate Al-Q,then claimed it would take years before building capability to do so,even tho British jailbirds and American teens had no problem joining Al-Q in Afghanistan.
Had no clue Saddam and co. had guerrilla war plan in case US occupied Iraq.
Couldn't locate Sassam.
Can't locate Osama.
9/11.
Who would ever want to make major changes to an Agency w/such a splendid record?
Posted by: Stephen ||
11/14/2004 13:54 Comments ||
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#7
Rummie was a hard-ass who went after an entrenched military mindset in the Pentagon. Rummy saw the new threats and realized that the military would have to go through massive changes in its structure and attitudes to meet these new realities.
IMHO, Goss is facing the same issues. He needs to review and hone his vision. When he has the plan approved from the top, he needs to go in there like Rummy and be the leader for change. Sometimes he will have to be the Head SOB. Some old guard will have to be shown the door. Stephen has listed major failures of the CIA. Everything is not just wizbang sensors and computers, though necessary, are not sufficient. The CIA will need eyes and ears on the ground, that THAT takes years to develop. We better get crackin'. Good luck, Mr. Goss.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/14/2004 14:08 Comments ||
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#8
Shut it down and start over. The rot is far too broad and deep for reform to work.
#13
DO needs reform, badly. And unfortunately, the types of barnicles in there can only be removed, not reformed.
And until they get the leakers and obstructionists and careerists out of the way, the agency will remain disfunctional and will put the nation at risk of a nuc or chem 9/11.
#14
DO needs reform, badly. And unfortunately, the types of barnicles in there can only be removed, not reformed.
And until they get the leakers and obstructionists and careerists out of the way, the agency will remain disfunctional and will put the nation at risk of a nuc or chem 9/11.
The White House has ordered the new CIA director, Porter Goss, to purge the agency of officers believed to have been disloyal to President George W. Bush or of leaking damaging information to the media about the conduct of the Iraq war and the hunt for Osama bin Laden, according to knowledgeable sources. "The agency is being purged on instructions from the White House," said a former senior CIA official who maintains close ties to both the agency and to the White House. "Goss was given instructions ... to get rid of those soft leakers and liberal Democrats. The CIA is looked on by the White House as a hotbed of liberals and people who have been obstructing the president's agenda."
One of the first casualties appears to be Stephen R. Kappes, deputy director of clandestine services, the CIA's most powerful division. The Washington Post reported yesterday that Kappes had tendered his resignation after a confrontation with Goss' chief of staff, Patrick Murray, but at the behest of the White House had agreed to delay his decision till tomorrow. But the former senior CIA official said that the White House "doesn't want Steve Kappes to reconsider his resignation. That might be the spin they put on it, but they want him out." He said the job had already been offered to the former chief of the European Division who retired after a spat with then-CIA Director George Tenet. Another recently retired top CIA official said he was unsure Kappes had "officially resigned, but I do know he was unhappy."
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/14/2004 12:35:19 AM ||
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#2
DPA, let's hope it is true. If the CIA can't be reformed with a purge then it should be destroyed.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
11/14/2004 2:07 Comments ||
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#3
A quote from another news-source "The bill warned that without changes, the clandestine unit - the agency's most famous division - could become a "stilted bureaucracy incapable of even the slightest bit of success." could explain why this Augean stable needs needs an urgent muck-out.
#4
Wouthout a strong hand on the tiller (bascially since 92), the ops side of the house will devolve into empire building and over-cautiousness (in that political environment) because instead of seeking to execute the mission, they sought to pass the blame and get the budget.
Its about time some one knocked some heads in Langley. And those guys know who to come to to rebuild the place, just like the guys rebuilding in the early 80's knew where to go to - reach back to the previous generation who won thier war and "got the job done".
#5
Ok, leaking damaging information - that I can understand, and that should be totally hammered out of the agency, but being disloyal to President Bush? I mean, being disloyal to the office of the President should also be a hanging offence - but it does seem that this release is focussing more on the 'personality' of the President, and not the 'office'.
Am I missing the point here?
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
11/14/2004 4:54 Comments ||
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#6
This needs to be done and fast. The CIA is not the agency it once was. Ever since the fall of the Soviet bloc they have sliped farther into PC bureaucracy with more groupthink than analysis. I bet none of those 'agents' warned that Saddam would transfer WMDs to another nation or that Al Quaida was a growing threat. Heck they missed the fall of Communism and that was 80% of their manpower effort! If this were a company it would hav folded decades ago.
#7
Tony, this is Newsday; and these are unnamed "sources". I think you can safely assume that "disloyal", as used in this article, is a politically loaded euphemism for "obstructed the implementation of national policy as ordered by the President".
Posted by: Dave D. ||
11/14/2004 7:39 Comments ||
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#8
"Goss is not a believer in liaison work," said this retired official. But, he said, the CIAâs "best intelligence really comes from liaison work. The CIA is simply not going to develop the assets [agents and case officers] that would meet the intelligence requirements."
Perhaps Goss understands that "liaison work" means the information you get is the information the other country WANTS YOU TO GET, and would rather have some way to get the information independently.
Not that we should stop working with other countries, but perhaps the "old-hands" at the CIA should reconsider the trustworthiness of information coming from Syria at a time when so many Syrians are shooting at Americans.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/14/2004 9:03 Comments ||
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#9
If George W. Bush really wanted to kick ass and take names at the CIA, he should appoint George H. W. Bush to the top job. As for the political fallout, well, his name is already on the building.
#10
Raze it to the ground. Start over.
And this time around, recruit hundreds of talented young asian-americans who speak pashto, farsi, mandarin etc. Enough of the Leverett "Buzzy" Saltonstall mediocrities.
#11
"The CIA is simply not going to develop the assets [agents and case officers] that would meet the intelligence requirements."
Well OF COURSE they won't, so long as they keep recruiting ivy league white boys. Has anyone at Langley ever considered the fact that this country has millions of dark-skinned citizens who, um, actually speak the languages of the region and know the region intimately? What exactly is in the heads of the jokers running the CIA? Why did we not start recruiting hundreds of brilliant young asian-americans decades ago?
#12
Wouthout a strong hand on the tiller (bascially since 92), the ops side of the house will devolve into empire building and over-cautiousness (in that political environment) because instead of seeking to execute the mission, they sought to pass the blame and get the budget.
Its about time some one knocked some heads in Langley. And those guys know who to come to to rebuild the place, just like the guys rebuilding in the early 80's knew where to go to - reach back to the previous generation who won thier war and "got the job done".
#13
Wouthout a strong hand on the tiller (bascially since 92), the ops side of the house will devolve into empire building and over-cautiousness (in that political environment) because instead of seeking to execute the mission, they sought to pass the blame and get the budget.
Its about time some one knocked some heads in Langley. And those guys know who to come to to rebuild the place, just like the guys rebuilding in the early 80's knew where to go to - reach back to the previous generation who won thier war and "got the job done".
More than 100 journalists have been killed since January, making 2004 the most deadly year for journalists in a decade, an international media rights group said. The slayings of three journalists in recent days in Ivory Coast, Nicaragua and the Philippines pushed this year's total to 101, the International Federation of Journalists said Friday. "2004 is turning out to be one of the most bloody years on record," said Aidan White, the federation's general secretary. "The crisis of news safety has reached an intolerable level and must be addressed urgently."
The organization recorded 83 killings of media staff in 2003 and 70 in 2002. The most deadly year for journalists since the organization began compiling annual reports in 1988 was 1994, when 115 were killed, including 48 during the genocide in Rwanda. This year's latest victim was Gene Boyd R. Lumawag, photo editor for the independent Filipino news agency MindaNews, shot in the head Friday by an unknown gunman while on his way to take a picture of the sunset in the southern town of Jolo. The federation also highlighted the dangers in Iraq, where it said 62 journalists have been killed since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
11/14/2004 5:54:52 AM ||
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#1
Had a quick peek at the IFJ website but couldn't find an actual list of journalists' names and their organisations.
#2
Bull, one would think if any place on the web they would have the listing.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
11/14/2004 6:35 Comments ||
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#3
"The crisis of news safety has reached an intolerable level and must be addressed urgently."
And how, pray tell, will they "address" it? Aiden, baby, you're a moron. I guess I'll belay the "that's a good start" comment. No, I won't say it. Don't try to make me, either. Nope, not gonna do it.
#7
I think journalists do a fine job of addressing their own safety. They know American's won't kill them, so they report favorably for the other side. Pretty closely matches their morality and their politics, too.
#8
HU-AH!!!!
There are only two things equally as loathsome as journalists. Politicians and lawyers.
Screw'em, I've always hated them. They aren't in the war zones for anyone but themselves. They could give a shit less about the civilians or soldiers and would like nothing more than to have an American soldier get shot on tape.
They're arrogant, whining, self-important asses and I could care less. Better one of them than one of our soldiers.
Sorry Fred, I better cut this one short before I stop holding back and tell everyone how I really feel about them.
#2
The Beeb's forums on Iraq are almost comical in their predictability. Usually, about 70-80% of posters from Iraq strongly support US military actions-- usually with specific reference to facts on the ground-- while an equal percentage of Brits and continental Euros oppose the US, usually with irrelevant, clicheed refernces to Stalingrad, etc.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
11/14/2004 19:17 Comments ||
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#4
I've given up on the BBCs forums.
There comess a time in everyone's life when they say those words. For me, it happened about 18 months ago after a couople of years' sporadic flirting with 'em. When you can predict whether your input has a decent chance of getting posted or has a snowball's chance in hell, it loses its fun. Did you go through a short terminal period of firing off a couple of outrageously noon-PC comments just to offend the faceless BBC censor moderator?
#6
eeek i screwed up on posting , nothing new there :P
My point was , as Lex has kindly pointed out , Iraqi's are glad USA and co. are there , the Eurotrash and BritGuardian posse arent happy . If the Iraqi's are happy , I'm happy , and thats what matters :)
Sorry for any balls up at my end .
And yes Bulldog , they never publish my opinions .When the moderators look at it i hope they spill burning hot coffee in their crotches . Bunch of eer dare i say it .. ' board nazi's '
#7
I still post to insult the BBC employee that is using their bias (anti US) to filter most post they get. The 85% + crap that is just pure crap usually they post is gut turning most times. That they post out right Moonbattery is telling. I consider BBC online as an onging criminal conspiracy. Some day they will pay.
What goes around, comes around. The BBC will fall... eventually. More and more people are contemplating running up .com's black flag and unseating the bastards.
#9
Its remarkable that Beeb posted these favorable comments opposing their own views. My experience is that the Beeb has a Litmus test for screening "have your say" sayings.
Posted by: Capt America ||
11/14/2004 22:01 Comments ||
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Good tip not to fly 'Air Islam' during Ramadan. "I'm your Captain, Ayad. I'm starving myself so, if you'll excuse me, I'd rather not talk for too long. Let me reassure you that in the eventuality of my passing out, I'll be leaving you in the capable hands of Ahmed, although to be frank he's a little tired after spending last night touring the whorehouses of Amsterdam's Red Light District. Well, thank you for flying with us. Air Islam: where you're closer to Allah, and just one muffin from disaster."
#5
Not totally sure about Islam but I don't think they are supposed to do anything during the day and that would include piloting a jet. I guess Achmed is on his way to hell.
#6
CS - They are, from sunup to sundown, prohibited from eating, drinking (anything), smoking, and fornicating. So they mainly sleep and chew on sticks. They can work, though I saw little direct evidence of that in Saudi, lol! Then it's party and feast all night. I can say that by the end of about week two, none showed up for work - even the relaxed and shortened hours that Aramco gave them. That's why some of the expats I worked with actually liked Ramashitforbrainsdan. I smoke, so I hated every minute.
#11
I was let in through the bomb-strengthened door of the Airbus A340
yeah, bomb-strengthened my ass.
Posted by: Rafael ||
11/14/2004 21:01 Comments ||
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.com, the chewing on sticks business is the saudi traditional toothbrush. The islamonutcase I shared an office with at Aramco explained it to me. Reminds me of the Seinfeld bit about the Chinese and chop sticks ... "come on, they must have heard of the fork".
Very long, but extremely good. I would point out that US News archives this stuff after their next issue comes out, so we may want to keep this on Rantburg for reference purposes.
In the summer of last year, Iranian intelligence agents in Tehran began planning something quite spectacular for September 11, the two-year anniversary of al Qaeda's attack on the United States, according to a classified American intelligence report. Iranian agents disbursed $20,000 to a team of assassins, the report said, to kill Paul Bremer, then the top U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq. The information was specific: The team, said a well-placed source quoted in the intelligence document, would use a Toyota Corona taxi and a second car, driven by suicide bombers, to take out Bremer and destroy two hotels in downtown Baghdad. The source even named one of the planners, Himin Bani Shari, a high-ranking member of the Ansar al-Islam terrorist group and a known associate of Iranian intelligence agents.
The alleged plan was never carried out. But American officials regarded Iran's reported role, and its ability to make trouble in Iraq, as deadly serious. Iran, said a separate report, issued in November 2003 by American military analysts, "will use and support proxy groups" such as Ansar al-Islam "to conduct attacks in Iraq in an attempt to further destablize the country." An assessment by the U.S. Army's V Corps, which then directed all Army activity in Iraq, agreed: "Iranian intelligence continues to prod and facilitate the infiltration of Iraq with their subversive elements while providing them support once they are in country."
With the Pentagon's stepped-up efforts to break the back of the insurgency before Iraq's scheduled elections in late January, Iran's efforts to destabilize Iraq have received little public attention. But a review of thousands of pages of intelligence reports by U.S. News reveals the critical role Iran has played in aiding some elements of the anti-American insurgency after Baghdad fell--and raises important questions about whether Iran will continue to try to destabilize Iraq after elections are held. The classified intelligence reports, covering the period July 2003 through early 2004, were prepared by the CIA; the Defense Intelligence Agency; the Iraq Survey Group, the 1,400-person outfit President Bush sent to Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction; the Coalition Provisional Authority; and various military commands and units in the field, including the V Corps and the Pentagon's Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force. The reports are based on information gathered from Iraqis, Iranian dissidents, and other sources inside Iraq. U.S. News also reviewed British intelligence assessments of the postwar phase in Iraq.
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Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/14/2004 5:41:14 PM ||
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As Dan goes for today's "Bandwidth Buster" award...
How did USNWR get access to theses thousands of pages of classified documents? Just after the election and before the Fallujah offensive? What documents did nthey not get to see?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 18:38 Comments ||
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#7
A more interesting question is what the US is doing about it, i.e. SOG activities involving the assassination of large numbers of these boyz. Seriously, if they have not killed thousands of these eaters of pork, they are not doing their job. Hell, they should have been cutting throats on the streets of Tehran six months ago--with special efforts to nail anyone associated with their nuclear program. If you have a brigade of James Bonds, use them.
#8
I think AzCat is right. The US is setting up the stage for actions of various sorts for Iran. It would take a state like Iran to provide the resources for the kind of insurgencies that we have been dealing with since the end of the assault phase on Iraq. With the MMs going for nukes and playing the EUnichs for fools, the stakes are rapidly rising.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/14/2004 18:48 Comments ||
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#9
Anonymoose, as easily this is being released now to justify the future release of the brigade if its activities are revealed. Or to wear down resistance to releasing the brigade by congressional overseers who have been reluctant to consent. Or perhaps prefatory to seeking congressional consent. Or as part of a get Goss effort by soon to be former Ops personnel. When one gets into this sort of thing, nothing is ever as it seems.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 18:51 Comments ||
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#10
Now that the purge is on and in full swing, the US can start disclosing information about the true nature of the Iranian threat without having to deal with all of these leaked "rebuttals" from Pillar and Co the way they did with Iraq.
Everything is proceeding exactly as I have foreseen it ...
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/14/2004 19:00 Comments ||
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#11
"Everything is proceeding exactly as I have foreseen it ..."
LOL, Dan... that's exactly what the emperor said to vader in return of the jedi ;)
#12
Sounds like the author should have been Michael Ledeen. He is the renowned expert on these terror masters. As Michael suggests, all roads lead to Iran.
Posted by: Capt America ||
11/14/2004 22:28 Comments ||
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Iran has given the United Nations a written promise to fully suspend uranium enrichment, diplomats said on Sunday, in an apparent bid to dispel suspicions that Tehran wants to build a nuclear bomb. The move also would appear to blunt an American drive to take Iran before the United Nations for the imposition of sanctions. By issuing the written commitment to the United Nations nuclear watchdog agency — the International Atomic Energy Agency — Iran dropped demands for modification of a tentative deal worked out on Nov. 7 with European negotiators, agreeing instead to continue a freeze on enrichment and to suspend related activities, diplomats told The Associated Press. "Basically it's a full suspension," said one of the diplomats, speaking on condition of anonymity. "It's what the Europeans were looking for."
Posted by: Fred ||
11/14/2004 2:31:17 PM ||
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Did the pacification of Fallujah and the deaths of 1200 guerrillas convince Iran that the US was not too bogged down in Iraq to destroy Iranian nuclear facilities while preventing an Iranian spoiling attack? I wonder...
#7
ZF, You are certainly correct about Mr. Cause and Mr. Effect. But I can see myself awakening tomorrow to news that the Majlis cannot support the move or some other such nonsense.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 15:26 Comments ||
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#8
... with a priceless statement like the one the foreign minister gave when the EUros protested that Iran did not come clean about all its enrichment activities: "We have many programs in development now, including some that we are not going to tell you about."
#10
I think the Fallujah lesson is starting to be learned. The Iranians will backslide on this, repeatedly, but are now faced with the fact that the guy who DOESN'T need to say "Mother may I?" to the U.N got re-elected.
There hasn't been much international hue & cry over the swamp draining in Fallujah. Some folks kept quiet because they are smart enough to know this needed doing. But the rest of the yammerheads are starting to wake up to the fact that WE DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT THEY THINK OR SAY! Nor should we!
And in addition to whole "we want a nuke for Christmas" thing, the Iranians have been running a Holiday Inn for Al Queada for years! Time's almost up morons.
#14
Will this end up like North Korea and the Pyongyang Protocols - the Norkies don't care because they lied only to Bill Clinton, whom by definition is a traitor, criminal and liar anyway; and besides, as a Commie Bill covertly wants NorKor and anti-American nations to have nukes to begin with, to pre-9-11 "justify" American Socialism/Communism post 9-11.
#15
TO TURN THE EUROS AGS AMERICA - hmmmm, so FRANCE, whose Leftist-SOcialist movement was, and remains, historically the most-pro-SOVIET/RUSSIAN of all the non-American EuroLefts or Western Lefts, will be like Communist-controlled/dominated FASCIST-RIGHTIST RUSSIA and stand next to America's side with bayonets drawn ags CHINA, while also being ready to stab America in the back with those same alleged anti-Chicom, alleged anti-Commie bayonets. IOW, the French Left is like the US Left in naively believing that Sino-Russian Asian Communism will NOT make any forced effort to usurp or purge the anti-US Euro-/Western Lefts, and despite knowing that the history of both Russia's and China's Communist Parties is to the contrary. IOW again, the Franco-Left is wilfuly helping to destroy and suborn America knowing Russia-China will later kill them as well - you know, pro-FRENCH ANTI-FRENCHIES, aka ANTI-FRENCH FRENCH, like the Clintons are anti-American Americans, anti-Unitarian Unitarians, pro-Centrism anti-Centrists, and anti-Far Right Far Rightists,.................
..........@, anti-Communism/Socialism Communists-Socialists! NOT EXACTLY "THE OLD RELIABLES", THIS EURO "THIRD WAY", IS IT!? FRENCH-CENTRIC, MORE LEFTY WAFFLING -So I guess American PATRIOTS have to add their breakfast WAFFLES to the ever-growing list of foods Americans can't enjoy again until after the CIVIL WAR 2, POTUS HILLARY-CHELSEA, and OWG, where BLAME AMERICA = SAVING AMERICA = DESTROYING AMERICA, PC/DENIABLY OF COURSE!? At this rate, it will be PANCAKES/HOTCAKES and HASH BROWNS by the end of the week - ET TU, FOLGER'S COFFEE!?
#17
Joe, You started out so well. Then you his the CapsLock key and it all went down hill.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 20:54 Comments ||
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#18
wow - I didn't know typing could convey eye-rolling....
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/14/2004 21:12 Comments ||
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#19
I think we need a thread where Joseph and Aris can exchange ideas. Each has a lot to say and minimizes use of their paragraph divisions and their Prozac.
Posted by: Tom ||
11/14/2004 21:35 Comments ||
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#20
Most likely, they already have enough enriched uranium for their first set of bombs.
Maybe, they certainly seem to be playing a short-term game of feint & retreat that even the Euroweenies won't tolerate forever and that would seem to indicate that they're either: a) serious about negotiating, or b) close to achieving a short-term goal.
Likely as not they're simply dispersing their centrifuges and stocks of UF6 around the country to guarantee their survivability. From what we've read here recently it seems that they've not yet learned to cascade the centrifuges so they'll be stuck doing a lot of manual process / reprocess cycles with individual pieces of hardware. No reason at all that couldn't be dispersed to hundreds / thousands of caves / basements / 3-bedroom jobs in the 'burbs, etc. Amazing what you can do without an EPA to bitch every time you fire up a new shop.
#22
Hmmm, good point Zenster. I was kind of inferring that since the Iranians have already copped to having missiles that can reach almost all of Europe that they (the Euroweenies) might be in danger of growing a clue. Perhaps not.
#23
The MMs gave a promise that they will stop concentrating UF6. However, I see no verification on the part of the IAEA or other clown entity. This is turning into the same shell game as Iraq played. Disperse the assets, move things around. Beg for time. Get cooperative, then beligerant, rinse, repeat. The MMs are stalling for time to accomplish their WMD goals.
It would be veddy interesting to see progressive aerial recon images on the hot sites. We won't see that stuff until after BDA.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/14/2004 23:47 Comments ||
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Iran's record of denial and concealment over 18 years, as described in six IAEA reports, has deepened suspicions about its aims. "We have no illusions," says a European envoy. And recent developments have intensified the worries. Iran announced that it would resume manufacturing and assembling centrifuges and that it had converted tons of "yellowcake" uranium into uranium hexafluoride gas--the feedstock for centrifuges, which spin the gas at high speeds to enrich it to yield fuel for nuclear reactors or bombs. Iran has also tried to hire away Iraqi nuclear scientists with unknown success, U.S. officials say.
Iran's black-market efforts to buy nuclear parts also continue. U.S. News has learned that Iranian-linked trading companies last year attempted to acquire specialized components for the "cascade" of connected centrifuges used to enrich uranium. Iranian representatives have said it was necessary to make clandestine purchases--albeit for peaceful nuclear technology--to evade foreign efforts to thwart them.
Further, says David Albright, a leading proliferation expert and president of the Institute for Science and International Security, Iran has so far refused requests by IAEA investigators to enter a munitions production and storage facility at Parchin, as well as other military sites, on the grounds that they are not nuclear facilities covered by the nonproliferation treaty. Some analysts consider Parchin a probable home for testing the high-explosive charges that can trigger a nuclear detonation.
Posted by: AzCat ||
11/14/2004 12:56:26 AM ||
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#1
Thx, Az! This is chock full of comic relief...
Imagine: Iran worrying about "abandoning the non-proliferation treaty" and International twinkies having "deepened suspicions" and then keeping a straight face while saying "We have no illusions..."
ROFL!!! Oh Lordy how those UN and Euro wankers can tell 'em! LOL!
#2
The 'Bush Doctrine' relating to Iran was first initiated in securing Afghanistan and the old Soviet air bases on the Khorasan Iranian border. Next was the toppling of Saddam's dictatorship placing American & other 'western' forces on Iran's western oil rich border. We patrol & control the oil lanes of the Persian Gulf, only leaving Iran's northern border with Turkmenistan on the east and to the centre & north-western border, Armenia & Azerbaijan which does not allow Iran a route for transporting it's petroleum to the customers around the globe. If the White House does not swiftly deal with the Iranian nuclear threat Israel will and soon.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
11/14/2004 5:23 Comments ||
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#3
So who takes them out? Do we leave it up to the Jews, or send in a few B2s?
Posted by: Weird Al ||
11/14/2004 11:13 Comments ||
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#4
While fairly factual, somehow this article manages to sidestep some pretty obvious issues.
... few officials doubt that strikes would be costly, inflaming anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli passions, spawning terrorist reprisals, and giving extremists a boost across the Islamic world.
While no "air strikes" will result in a nuclear armed Iran whose commitment to sponsoring international terrorism is a well established fact. If everyone is so worried about "spawning terrorist reprisals," maybe they should be even more concerned about the intense likelihood of a terrorist nuclear attack being committed using a donated Iranian device. Suddenly those "reprisals" look like small potatoes, unless ulterior motives interfere.
That obstacle has spawned European talk of an ad hoc coalition for punishing Iran if it opts to build weapons. The group might include the EU-3, Japan, the United States, and other countries. But with high oil prices and rising demand, there is little chance of instituting an embargo where it would really hurt: on Iranian oil.
Speaking of ulterior motives. Somehow the lure of Iran's oil teat manages to overpower common sense amongst the Europeans. Russia and China have their own private agendas that ought to be better recognized as going against the interests of global security, nonetheless Europe remains heedless of the danger lurking in their own backyard.
Flush with petrodollars and backed by a public that sees joining the nuclear club as a point of national pride, Iranian officials have been preparing to face U.N. Security Council censure. Says Tehran University political scientist Hadi Semati, now at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, "They feel they can absorb the pressure. There's a sense of confidence."
And it is precisely that "sense of confidence" that needs to be shattered, preferably with large quantities of air delivered high explosives.
But Iran's record of denial and concealment over 18 years, as described in six IAEA reports, has deepened suspicions about its aims.
Yet, in the midst of incessant deception along with their interminable hate-mongering and terrorism by proxy against Israel, Iran is still rewarded with continuing negotiations instead of international condemnation, trade embargoes and military intervention.
Continued inaction against Iran is nothing but an ill concealed death-wish.
#6
Sanctions against Iran mean nothing. China needs Iranian oil big time. The Chicoms will veto any UN sanctions. If the Iranians develop nukes and give them to proxies, it's no skin off the Chicom's fore. Iranian nukes at the present are not a threat to the Chicoms. China gets Iran's oil and China can let Iran stick it to everyone else. A win-win for the Chicoms, unless the MMs are toppled and their nuke plans are smashed.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/14/2004 14:49 Comments ||
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#7
What Paul said. Which is why it all comes down to Israel. Let the Israelis handle it with the bunker-busters we sold them for that purpose.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 15:04 Comments ||
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#9
Not a soldier here, and I know the facilities are dispersed, but if they could take out Osirak in 1981 I would think that, given huge advances in US satellite intelligence, positioning technology etc since 1981 they should be able to take out the Iranian facilities this time around as well.
#2
You have to remember that this is the opinion of Robin Wright, mouthpiece for the ayatollahs. She'll be talking about how popular the ayatollahs are, on the day that they are dragged from their homes and butchered in public.
#3
Steve,
can you supply a link with no registration requirement ?
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
11/14/2004 8:34 Comments ||
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#4
EoZ - Apologies if you already know of this resource...
Paste the URL of the article into the textbox at BugMeNot and get a login. May take more than 1 or 2 tries, but it'll get you into the main sites, WaPo, NYT, etc. Definitely worth keeping...
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 9:13 Comments ||
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#6
.Com
Thanks, this did work and I didnt know about
the resource.
"But now all Iranians believe we must promote our activities as a sign of independence."
If anything will lead to the Mullahs losing their independence (and may be also their turbaned heads, in the process) it is their stubborn position on this.
The last thing we need is a Mad Mulla(TM) with a nuclear remote control.
It reminds me of the story about the Monkey who found a hand grenade.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
11/14/2004 9:14 Comments ||
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#7
Keep in mind this is written by Robin Wright. All else is highly suspect.
Posted by: Capt America ||
11/14/2004 9:44 Comments ||
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In a first-of-a-kind test earlier this month, the Raytheon Missile Systems and Bofors Excalibur team successfully fired a global positioning satellite-guided 155mm artillery shell, which guided to a target aim point 20 kilometers down range.
The shell hit less than 11 feet from the aim point, well within the performance specification of Excalibur...
Anyone in Iraq considering forming a temporary alliance with insurgents to gain some sort of tactical advantage will find the coalition won't view it as temporary, the commander of U.S. Central Command said here tonight.
Army Gen. John Abizaid had met earlier with Joint Chiefs Chairman Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers and Army Gen. George W. Casey Jr., commander of Multinational Force Iraq. Speaking with reporters later, the CENTCOM chief said there's no such thing as a temporary alliance with terrorists or insurgents as far as coalition forces and Iraqi leaders are concerned.
"The coalition and the Iraqi government will not tolerate temporary alliances of convenience," he said. "Once you align yourself with the insurgents, you've crossed the line and you go on the list. And the only way off the list is to be killed or captured."
Abizaid noted that insurgents in Fallujah were on their own in disorganized cells when U.S. and Iraqi forces began Operation Al Fajr Nov. 8, because their leaders had abandoned them.
But despite the lack of leadership and communication among insurgents in Fallujah, Abizaid acknowledged, the way ahead still be tough. No sooner is one cell dealt with than another pops up somewhere else in the city. "The insurgency is like water, and when you squeeze it, it kind of goes like water goes," he said.
A senior military officer here estimated that as many as 1,600 insurgents have been killed and more than 1,000 have been captured in recent fighting in Fallujah. If accurate, the number reflects more insurgents killed in one city in a week than U.S. forces have lost since Operation Iraqi Freedom began. "We've really knocked them for a loop," the senior officer said. "Now, the question is do we knock their leadership for a loop?"
Abizaid expressed optimism that operations in Fallujah will lead coalition and Iraqi forces to insurgent leaders, even though they disappeared before the fighting began.
"I think Fallujah will show us where the leadership is," he said. "I think there are quite a few people that are in our hands right now that will tell us an awful lot about their organization."
Despite the great care U.S. and Iraqi forces have taken in Fallujah to kill or capture insurgents while protecting the city and its people, a senior military official on background said he expects the Arab media will try in coming days to paint a different picture for the world. But of 17,000 buildings in the city, he said, 94 percent have not been damaged in the fighting.
And another senior officer told reporters that while it's not beyond the realm of possibility that some innocent civilians have been killed or wounded during Operation Al Fajr, so far not a single innocent civilian casualty has been reported.
Soldier models prototype helmet system that not only will link soldiers to a vast radio and computer network, but also will provide protection from bullets, shrapnel and eye-damaging laser beams.
#1
It looks like a high-tech football helmet. Maybe should be a bit lower in the rear for additional neck protection. Other then that if the new helmet will save more lives, offer more head protection, plus gives our troops advanced state of the art communications, the sooner they are fully perfected, tested & approved, they should be issued to our servicemen in the field.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
11/14/2004 19:20 Comments ||
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#2
Much more impressive than what we have now... our current helmets look like they're decades old.
Even the Frenchies don't want to look that ridiculous, pushing that story...
French Health Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said on Sunday there was no indication Yasser Arafat was poisoned, although he had no access to medical files on the death of the Palestinian leader. Arafat was flown from the West Bank to Paris on Oct. 29 suffering from stomach pains, diarrhoea and vomiting. He died in the early hours of Nov. 11 after suffering a brain haemorrhage. "Nothing in the medical dossier, it seems, has shown that he was poisoned," Douste-Blazy told Radio J. However, he stressed he had not seen the dossier itself either in his capacity as a doctor or a minister. He said doctors at the military hospital just outside Paris had done everything they could from a medical standpoint to treat 75-year-old Arafat.
Rumours have been rife that he had been suffering from anything from cancer of the stomach to a rare blood disorder. Hamas militants say he was poisoned by Israel, a theory which Palestinians officials have said doctors have ruled out. But the head of the Palestinian mission in Paris, Leila Shahid, said on Saturday that poisoning was a possibility, although there was no evidence. "It's quite possible that they (Israelis) poisoned him...I cannot say that medically we have proof of that," she told Europe 1 radio.
No proof — that means it was prob'ly the Mossad. Iocaine powder, I'll betcha...
Posted by: Fred ||
11/14/2004 1:39:54 PM ||
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#1
the French Health Minister has no access to teh medical files, huh? Doesn't want to see the AIDS confirmation?
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/14/2004 14:02 Comments ||
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Last year auditors discovered Arafat was guilty of skimming $2 million a month from the gasoline trade in the territories, TIME reports.
In August 2002 international donors forced Arafat to sign over his investments to the Palestine Investment Fund, which was audited by U.S. accountants and managed by Palestinian Finance Minister Salam Fayyad, a former International Monetary Fund official. After scouring corporations throughout the Arab world and bank accounts in the Cayman Islands and Luxembourg, the auditors identified $800 million, which has been made a part of the Palestinian Authority's official budget. "It's the most successful financial reform in the Arab world," Jim Prince, president of the Los Angeles—based Democracy Council and head of the audit team, tells TIME.
People close to Fayyad's investigation told TIME of Arafat's skimming from the gas trade. Breaking the gasoline smuggling and corruption boosted the Palestinian Authority's official treasury by $10 million a month and cut gas prices for ordinary Palestinians.
"Arafat's death means his followers may never know just how much more they may be owed," writes TIME's Matt Rees in "Where's Arafat's Money?" In the mid-1990s, Arafat controlled a financial empire worth at least $3 billion. By the time of his death, he was down to his last $1 billion, according to Israeli-intelligence estimates.
Arafat wife Suha's outburst that his successors were "trying to bury [him] alive" came after she learned that Arafat had signed over at least $800 million to the government of the Palestinian Authority two years ago, TIME reports. Top Palestinian officials say Suha wants the new chief of the P.L.O., Mahmoud Abbas, and Palestinian prime minister Ahmed Qurei to give her money out of the P.L.O.'s party coffers. But a senior P.L.O. official tells TIME, "they'll pay her a pension, and that's it."
People familiar with Arafat's finances say the Palestinian leader sent Suha $200,000 a month out of the Palestinian Authority's budget for the Office of the President. French authorities are investigating transfers of $15 million from Swiss banks to Paris accounts in Suha's name at the Arab Bank and at BNP Paribas Bank, a French bank, TIME reports.
Senior Palestinian security officials tell TIME that Arafat also shipped money to the gunmen of the Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.
Developing...
Posted by: Fred ||
11/14/2004 1:30:53 PM ||
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#1
Fred do you have a picture yet of the Eternal Bubbler?
Interesting responses from Iraqi's living in Iraq , compared to the wishy washy retards who live in Europe and America who post on the BBC 'have your say ' forum
From BBCArabic.com: I agree with Allawi's decision to attack Falluja. In fact, he should have done this much earlier, when the kidnappings started in Iraq.
— Jaafar Al Jabri, Iraq
From BBCArabic.com: I am originally from Falluja. I support the government in its use of force to rid us from the terrorist gangs that have been wrecking havoc in my city and causing pain to my people. I say to Arabs outside Iraq: Please save us your comments because you don't know the crimes that have been committed by these gangs under the guise of religion and resistance.
— Ahlam Jamil, Iraq
From BBCArabic.com: Some are shedding tears for Falluja and for the terrorists and murderers, but no-one seems to have spared a thought for the bereaved families who have lost loved ones because of the car bombs etc, manufactured by those criminals who call themselves part of the resistance. Allawi's decision is a sound one and should have been taken and implemented long before now. Iraq does not need criminals to defend it.
— Wisam, Basra, Iraq
From BBCArabic.com: Since when has the hospital in Falluja been a strategic place, so much so that it became the first area to be taken over by the Americans?
— Younis, originally from Falluja, Iraq
From BBCArabic.com:I blame Dr Allawi for waiting this long to take this decision. But we are with Dr Allawi in his efforts to get rid of these criminals.
— Uthman Deleemi, Ramadi, Iraq
From BBCArabic.com: Imposing martial law is the right step to stabilise Iraq. The battles in Falluja are fought against foreign terrorists and insurgents.
— Maher Abbas, Baghdad, Iraq
From BBCArabic.com: The decision of Dr Allawi is the right one, but it came a bit late. We all know that all suicide bombings in Iraq are linked to Falluja.
— Muwaffaq, Iraq
eeek and a kuwaiti opinion :
From BBCArabic.com:The Iraqi government is invested with all the legal rights to take the adequate measures. The situation deteriorated badly because of the support given by some Iraqi factions to terrorist groups, disregarding the interests of their own people. The Muslim Clerics Council's stance is partially responsible for this, as it allowed a confused population to kill Iraqis under the name of resistance.
— Abdel Lateef Boughaith, Kuwait
Posted by: MacNails ||
11/14/2004 4:32:10 AM ||
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#1
Thank you for posting this.
One small matter: as a courtesy to those who have genuine learning difficulties, please do not refer to the willfully ignorant as "retards." Call the "wishy washy" parties above "willfully ignorant," or something more accurate and descriptive.
#2
Yeah, the Iraqis generally don't understand why we didn't completely raze Fallujah several months ago - it's what they would have done. Ditto for most arabs. A desert society tends to cut short the niceties and just get the deed done as quickly as possible.
Middle East countries from Egypt to the Persian Gulf have shown new resolve ahmrrrrrrrrrrrg, cough, cough... an involuntary alergic reaction of my belief system?
to counter Islamic militants who have staged bloody attacks at home and fueled the Iraq insurgency, a sign of how the global war against terrorism has stirred regimes' survival instincts. Nations have agreed to share intelligence and cooperate on controlling borders and have signed fresh security pacts, although their history of disputes and rivalries means they don't always follow through on lofty words - and they tend to rely on Washington as a critical intermediary. The first call often goes to American officials and gets action when Arab brotherhood doesn't, Middle Eastern counterterrorism and government officials told The Associated Press. "The information might be first delivered to United States security agencies and then it might or might not be shared with the Arab country concerned," Deputy Yemeni Foreign Minister Mustapha Noman said. "In general, this is what's happening because the United States shows more interest and more concern." Speaks by itself, doesnit?
"The (U.S.) administration looks at the war on terrorism from a very wide spectrum," Noman, the Yemeni deputy minister said in Cairo. "Some (Arab) countries don't see it the same way. ... We have to admit that our concerns are different and that, in some cases, it's regime survival." Myopia, Noman, if Moose-limb Hood gets its sway, your regimes would be worth exactly shi'te.
Posted by: Cornīliës ||
11/14/2004 4:28:19 AM ||
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#1
As long as the jihadis were just whacking infidels, it was all fun and games. Plus it took the pressure off the local regime. Now the jihadis are eating their own, the camel's nose is under the other tent.
It will play out slowly, but I predict the struggle between mutual distrust and self-preservation will be another popcorn-worthy show.
#2
The US is moving more and more (thanks to Bush) towards the "democratic revolutionary" mode and away from dealing with tyrants because it is expedient to do so. Democracy *is* "the revolution", and the US has long been its most radical proponent. Ironically, the strongest anti-democratic force in the world is the leftist, pro-slavery, racist socialist movement, almost as old as the democratic revolutionary movement, a large faction of whom also reside in the US.
#3
The problem within Islamic countries is bigger than jihadis vs regimes.
Read this article, and it would be apparent that we have a bigger problem looming up.
One day, fairly soon, we would have to decide if preserving a pseudo-religion has some redeeming value or not. I've made my mind already. If Islam is not completely rooted out in the span of 20-30 years, we lose and half a millenium or more of dark age would grip our descendants.
#4
Ultimately, the only True solution will be the TOTAL EXTERMANITION of all Sufi/Wahhabi clerics in Saudi Arabia. That is the cesspool that must be drained. Wahhabism MUST BE EXTERMINATED worldwide. There are NO EXCEPTIONS to this. People can abandon Wahhibism and live, but they won't, so let them die.!
#8
Nations have agreed to share intelligence and cooperate on controlling borders and have signed fresh security pacts, although their history of disputes and rivalries means they donât always follow through on lofty words ...
All of which adds up to exactly bupkus. Inter-Arab hostilities consistently neuter any possibility of progress in the region. Only the advent of modern weapons has sufficiently extended their violent influence to the point where attention must be paid to them.
Soon enough the outside world will have had their fill with Islam's dreams of global domination. Should they prove unable to abandon this obsession with religious ascendancy, the attention repaid for all their troublemaking will make the Arabs wish they had never been born.
#9
Re #3 (Cornīliës):
In Kuwait the pendelum will change directions soon enough. You're too pessimistic.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
11/14/2004 14:39 Comments ||
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#10
Zenster, "Should they prove unable to abandon this obsession with religious ascendancy, the attention repaid for all their troublemaking will make the Arabs wish they had never been born."
Well, what would be the proper enticement to "abandon" their obsession? Therefore "all their troublemaking will make the Arabs wish they had never been born" is quite a plausible scenario.
There is another option. I call it Deux ex machina Replacement. Just an idea whose time did not yet come, but it may be on the table in 10-20 years.
Islam has to go. There is no other possibility. Completely. No festering to infect scores of humanity, at some point in time, must be allowed.
Mike, I am not pessimistic. But things would get quite nasty before they get better. Anyway, please feel free to elaborate why the Kuwaiti pendulum will swing in another direction soon. Enquiring minds want to know.
#11
Cornīliës, I'm confident you've already gotten the gist of this.
Well, what would be the proper enticement to "abandon" their obsession?
The only effective lever for moving the entire Islamic world away from their lusting after supremacy is simple self-preservation. Unfortunately, the Bush administration is so fixated upon religiosity that they cannot bring themselves to condemn another faith, no matter how corrupt it might be. Witness how the Office of Faith Based Giving cheerfully funnels huge quantities of our tax dollars to a religious nutjob and self-proclaimed "new world messiah" like Sun Myung Moon.
This represents a profound stumbling block in terms of motivating Islam to abandon its obsession with global domination. Muslims need to be advised that their very survival hangs in the balance. Outright obliteration is what should await an unreformed Islam. Either forsake the politically active arm of your church of see it reduced to smoking molten glass.
Sadly, Bush cannot bring himself to address the obvious. The White House's inappropriate over-reliance upon the backing of American religious factions neutralizes its ability to make truly functional decisions regarding the imminent peril that Islam represents. So long as Bush continues to seek annexation of his own religious views onto America's constitution, he shall remain blind to the insidious nature of theocracy in all of its forms. His ideological shortsightedness may well be exactly what ultimately foredooms his fight against terrorism. I dread the thought that all of America will have to pay the penalty for his zealotry.
#12
Zenster: So long as Bush continues to seek annexation of his own religious views onto America's constitution, he shall remain blind to the insidious nature of theocracy in all of its forms.
Religious men have governed these United States for most of its 200+ years. Religious men have populated these United States for most of its 200+ years. The problem isn't even religious zealotry - the Falungong, Jehovah's Witnesses and the Amish are nothing if not religious zealots. The Dalai Lama thinks that he is the reincarnation of Buddhist leaders from generations past. The problem is not and has never been religious devotion.
The problem is the state sponsors of Islamic jihad and the terrorists who carry out the attacks. The liberal media have been portraying GWB as some kind of David Koresh type, when he is simply a devout Christian, and no more devout than generations of presidents past. And devout Christians have ruled this country (and voted in its elections) for 200+ years without it becoming a theocracy. For the NYT's non-Christian reporters, anything that seems to be reversing their atheistic agenda is a sign of theocracy. They condemn GWB's moral beliefs while basking in the warm sunshine of their own moral certitudes - that atheism is best.
#13
What ZF said. The MSM noise about Bush's religiosity is so far off the mark as regards the underpinnings of US policy that one has to think of it as a kind of dezinformatsiya.
My $0.02 worth on the middle east powderkeg issue is that it's long past time we shifted to nuclear power. Enough with the sentimentality. It works in France, it can work for us.
And it has to work for us, because a sinking dollar will sooner or later persuade major swing producers like Russia to shift toward oil pricing in euros, which will only push the dollar down further and threaten to disrupt the delicate financial balance that we and the Chinese, Japanese and Korean central banks have been preserving for twenty years.
Oil is crack. Time for us to kick the habit, and let the arab crack pushers sell their smack elsewhere.
#14
Zenster, I think you are reding too much into Bush's reliance on religion. He already steered off the "Abrahamic religions" concept, quietly but perceptibly. I agree with ZF, and maintain that Bush knows the score. It is just a question of strategy and tactics. Bush's poker face should not confuse you, it is for the enemy's consumption.
Yes, you are right, but to get off it is a long term project that may span 30-40 years.
If not taking over the ME oil patches outright, I would suggest to pump them out as fast as possible, simply to dry the wells up. They would fill again in couple of centuries (I know what I am talking about, it is a renewable resource and I don't have time to go into details right now) but in the meanwhile, the result would be that the income to finance jihad would dry up as well.
#16
Religious men have governed these United States for most of its 200+ years. Religious men have populated these United States for most of its 200+ years. The problem isn't even religious zealotry - the Falungong, Jehovah's Witnesses and the Amish are nothing if not religious zealots. The Dalai Lama thinks that he is the reincarnation of Buddhist leaders from generations past. The problem is not and has never been religious devotion.
And to the credit of so many of those "religious men" few of them ever attempted to tamper with America's constitution like Bush has seen fit to. I have no problem with "religious devotion." What I do have a problem with is someone in a position of power attempting to ram their religious ideology down my or anyone else's throat.
None of what you posted, Zhang Fei, addresses the more critical issue of how Bush's overemphasis upon religiosity (and its inappropriate role in government) directly interferes with his ability to single out Islam for its own theocratic aspirations.
Because Bush seeks insertion of his own religious views into our body of law, he is voluntarily hamstrung with respect to criticizing Islam's own desire to become the ultimate legal arbiter of all governments. It is this blindness regarding the necessity of separating church and state that may well cripple America's fight against terrorism.
The backbone required to demand that Islam abandon all pursuit of political domination is nowhere present within the sanctimonious confines of the Oval Office. This paucity of correctly configured moral authority oversteers the hand of American leadership and misguides its valid aim towards eradicating the threat of Islamic terrorism.
If Bush's attempts to mandate his own religious views pulls him up short when it comes to dictating the necessary ultimatums that will halt Islamist terrorism, then he betrays American and sacrifices it upon his own personal altar.
America deserves better and I can only hope that we, as a nation, do not end up paying too dearly for this administration's blinkered vision.
#17
Zen, you protest too much. Bush's admin has a secrecy problem, but they are not "tampering with the Constitution." The Patriot Act merely extends Clinton's own Anti-Terror Act from 1996. Ashcroft has not gone to bat for any major fundamentalist hobby horse. Hell, these guys did not even seriously challenge the abortion that is affirmative action!
O'Connor's U Michigan opinion was a disgrace, as weas the SCOTUS ruling, and the Bush admin was silent on it. I'm not religious and I don't feel threatened in the slightest by the religious zealots. They talk big but they haven't succeeded in any significant religion-related national legislation or rulings I can think of.
#18
Zenster,
"directly interferes with his ability to single out Islam for its own theocratic aspirations.
Because Bush seeks insertion of his own religious views into our body of law"
I think that you see ghosts that are not there. If I am mistaken, prove it. No inuendo, or presuppositions, specific detail only.
#19
... it's long past time we shifted to nuclear power.
... Oil is crack. Time for us to kick the habit, and let the arab crack pushers sell their smack elsewhere.
This is the central and, as yet, largely unadressed issue. Too many special interests that fund republican and democratic coffers alike have not a whit of interest in America being freed from its dependency upon oil. Think: Detroit.
#21
#17Bush's admin has a secrecy problem, but they are not "tampering with the Constitution." The Patriot Act merely extends Clinton's own Anti-Terror Act from 1996. Ashcroft has not gone to bat for any major fundamentalist hobby horse.
#18If I am mistaken, prove it. No inuendo, or presuppositions, specific detail only.
I'm not sure what all of you consider the Office of Faith Based Giving or attempts to constitutionally define marriage in strictly heterosexual terms to be, but in my book that is nothing but naked politico-religious zealotry and it has no place in our government. If you don't regard the DOMA (Defense of Marriage Amendment) as tampering with the constitution, then we must agree to disagree.
If our government funds any religious organization, it must fund them all. Right down to the Church of Satan, the Wiccans and all other comers.
If it is not illegal to be homosexual, then there must be equal protection under the law in all respects to people of all sexual orientations. No exceptions.
All Americans should have, not just freedom of religion, but freedom from religion. Any undermining or tainting of such liberty in the pursuit of happiness is an affront to freedom itself.
#22
Zenster. You have convinced me. There should be no such legal condition as marriage. Leave it to the churches.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 16:46 Comments ||
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#23
so no faith-based morality in governance, huh Zen? I'm only opposed to intolerant religions partaking in charity funding from the gov't, and proof that they are doing good work with the funds (auditing, etc.). I don't want a polity that is free from concepts of good/evil, and those are generally reinforced by religious values.
Now, I'm going back to channel surfing between the Vikings/Packers and Nascar (of course, huh?) - my man Mark Martin is in 2nd in the Southern 500
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/14/2004 16:53 Comments ||
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#24
Marriage is about kids and property. Of course it's a legal matter. A majority of my party's adherents are against legalized gay marriage. I'm not for it and find it a bit repulsive but I'm honest enough to admit that Defense o Marriage Act's not out of the political mainstream at all.
When they force my child to learn that creationism or whatever they call it is on a par with evolutionary biology, I'll get upset, but I don't see that on the horizon.
#25
but to get off oil is a long term project that may span 30-40 years. Nah! Nuclear power aint rocket science. In 5 years time the USA could have a nuclear power station a month coming onstream.
BTW, I used to think Zenster was a troll. I'm still not convinced he isn't. The combination of kill-em-all extremist views and Leftist talking points just doesn't convince me he is real.
#26
lex, what do kids and property have to do with "equal protection under the law in all respects to people of all sexual orientations." That's what marriage is about. Sex. Hedonism. Don't muddy the water with talk of kids.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 17:32 Comments ||
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#27
#22 Zenster. You have convinced me. There should be no such legal condition as marriage. Leave it to the churches.
Thank you, Mrs. Davis.
#23 so no faith-based morality in governance, huh Zen?
Who said anything about that, Frank? Bush has every right to make his decisions based upon whatever faith he enjoys. He most certainly does not have the right to use his office as a bully pulpit to advance his religious views before those of other faiths.
I'm only opposed to intolerant religions partaking in charity funding from the gov't, and proof that they are doing good work with the funds (auditing, etc.).
While that is certainly your privilege, it does not alter the insurmountable difficulties in assessing and qualifying which religions should or should not receive federal funding. Better that none do at all and thereby preserve the separation of church and state.
I don't want a polity that is free from concepts of good/evil, and those are generally reinforced by religious values.
And, again, who is suggesting such a thing? While your concepts of good and evil may be reinforced by your religious values, such a notion in no way disqualifies the idea that right and wrong or ethical behavior can be derived through rational and logical analysis rather than theological divination.
Further, it is both unjust and ill considered to think that all people should be willing to undergo legal assessment based upon someone else's religious tenets. Belief in the supernatural represents a poor foundation for making legal determinations regarding civil or contract law, which represent a substantial portion of our judicial system's case load.
When they force my child to learn that creationism or whatever they call it is on a par with evolutionary biology, I'll get upset, but I don't see that on the horizon.
lex, you might be interested to know that some school districts are doing exactly that.
The DOMA and Office of Faith Based Giving are direct examples of the camel's nose being stuck into the tent. If the entire animal gains entrance, prepare to be crapped on in a big way. Better to prohibit it now than be stuck shoveling your way out later.
#28
Zenster, That post is behind registration, but this at the home town paper is pretty good coverage and there is lots more at the paper's web site, if you're interested. Personally, I think they're wacko, but I suspect this will be worked out politically, which is the best way; not judicially.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 17:42 Comments ||
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#29
"you might be interested to know that some school districts are doing exactly that.
Pennsylvania board orders teaching of âintelligent design'"
Does that mean that they replaced Theory of Evolution with Theory of Intelligent Design?
If that is the case, off with their heads!
But if it is taught alongside then I don't see a problem. Each theory should stand on its merrit.
Only if the purpose would be to introduce the concept that the ToE is not done deal and there is a lot yet to discover.
#30
Nuclear power aint rocket science. In 5 years time the USA could have a nuclear power station a month coming onstream.
I agree. As to your "kill-em-all" accusations, please cite even a single instance where I have advocated such a horrific notion, phil_b, or kindly retract your ill-founded assertion.
I strongly advocate instituting a credible deterrent to terrorism and further support a doctrine of military response to countries that knowingly shelter terrorists or permit open propagation of terrorist doctrine.
That I have also predicted how nuclear annihilation may await Islamic countries which refuse to moderate their jihadist factions in no way equates to a "kill-em-all" posture upon my part. I refer you to .com's "fry 'em up" stance if you have any further questions.
So, again, provide some cites or retract your accusations phil_b.
#31
The operative graf from the article I linked is:
The new wording in the curriculum states: âStudents will be made aware of gaps/problems in Darwinâs Theory and of other theories of evolution including, but not limited to, intelligent design. Note: Origins of life will not be taught.â
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 17:52 Comments ||
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#32
Zenster: "Thank you, Mrs. Davis."
I think that you've missed sarcasm, as clarified further:
"That's what marriage is about. Sex. Hedonism. Don't muddy the water with talk of kids."
#34
Actually Cornilies, I agree the government should get out of the marriage business. I find that the government has done little to help families and much to hurt them. I think families represent a threat to the government as they are the last vestige of the pre-government dominated world that retains substantial power. Thus, I would like the government out of anything having to do with marriage, including and especially anything having to do with kids, starting with the state schools.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 18:00 Comments ||
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#35
Each theory should stand on its merrit. Only if the purpose would be to introduce the concept that the ToE is not done deal and there is a lot yet to discover.
The problem is that neither creationism nor "intelligent design" (which has been referred to as "creationism dressed up in a shabby tuxedo") have any basis in scientific fact. Evolution does. It is critical that schools teach factually based material in their science classes.
If Judeo-Christian creationism is to be taught, then all other religious theories regarding our world's origin must receive equal time as well. Navajo, Hindu, Shinto and so forth right down to the Church of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Once again, we return to the issue of insurmountable multiplicity.
I urge all of you on the strongest possible terms to read Irving Stone's "The Origin," about Darwin's life and travels. Charles Darwin was originally destined to be a clergyman and only by accident became a naturalist. He felt it was absurd to think that the path and destination of every single raindrop was preordained. Yet he felt quite deeply that evolution was a perfect tool by which a supreme being could arrange the emergence of life on earth. The baseless and vindictive attacks upon his character and reputation by the Church of England absolutely astounded him.
Creationism cannot summon the least bit of empirical evidence to support its theory. It is a subjective explanation made by one particular group of believers which has not one iota of greater validity than similar subjective theories put forth by other groups of equally convinced believers. Unlike evolution, creationism cannot be subjected to the test of disproof and therefore is not entitled to stand as any sort of alternative with respect to biological curiculum.
Just as there are classes in public schools that teach comparative religion, so might there be ones that teach comparative theories of creationism. Creationism neither deserves nor has any rightful place in a science class, just as nuclear physics has no reasonable expectation to be propounded upon in a Sunday sermon.
#36
Mrs. Davis, I agree with "families represent a threat to the government as they are the last vestige of the pre-government dominated world that retains substantial power" and "especially anything having to do with kids, starting with the state schools". Add different states' incarnations of Child Abduction Services and such.
However, sometimes governments need to intervene if social trends seem not to prefer family as an organization unit of society. Should be only in beneficial sense though. So far, there was an oppposite trend of govt. interfering with families, leading to hurting families, so yes, that kind of 'help' is not needed.
BTW, I love sex! :-)
(Well, I am from the old school, just to put it in proper context)
#37
I suspect a love of sex is one of those qualities that is promoted by natural selection. Another reason to get government out of the marriage business.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 18:26 Comments ||
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#38
Actually Cornilies, I agree the government should get out of the marriage business. I find that the government has done little to help families and much to hurt them. I think families represent a threat to the government as they are the last vestige of the pre-government dominated world that retains substantial power.
An internesting notion, Mrs. Davis. I certainly wouldn't object if you took a moment to expand upon it in this thread as we are already pretty far afield from the original topic.
Bush is a Methodist. Hardly a "conservative" Christian sect. Most Baptists are sure any Methodist is going to hell.
Sorta reminiscent of how the Sunnis regard the Shiites. Curious. Further, SPoD, if you regard this as froth, consider what this board would look like if America had a Muslim president who was attempting to put in place legislation that was preferential to Islamic law. Now that would be some froth!
#39
#35 Zenster, wish I had time to respond.
Just that some exact stuff I've read many times before. Sounds more like talking points.
Maybe some other time. Just one thing, "Intelligent Design" is a concept, it does not reflect any particular religious creed, Judeo-Christian or Hindu, or whatever. Hence your postulate about insurmountable multiplicity is invalid.
Meanwhile, check these tables and tell me what you think of it.
#40
Muslims need to be advised that their very survival hangs in the balance. Outright obliteration is what should await an unreformed Islam. Either forsake the politically active arm of your church of see it reduced to smoking molten glass.
#42
Zenster, To expand on what? That the government is inimical to families? That families are inimical to government? That government over the last 500 years has aggregated power to the detriment of other social institutions?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 18:46 Comments ||
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#43
Maybe some other time. Just one thing, "Intelligent Design" is a concept, it does not reflect any particular religious creed, Judeo-Christian or Hindu, or whatever. Hence your postulate about insurmountable multiplicity is invalid.
My argument vis insurmountable multiplicity deals with pairing creationism along side of biological evolution in a science class. Intelligent design would fit just fine into the curiculum of a course dealing with comparative creationism.
Let's not forget how our entire universe would not exist if any of the major physical constants were changed by even a minute fraction of their actual values.
While intelligent design makes some seemingly attractive claims, it is important to remember how our universe may have been preceded by numerous other iterations that did not have this precise balance of parameters which therefore became unstable and did not survive. Such an explanation has no reliance upon postulating the existence of a supreme being. As Buckminster Fuller said; "Energy flowing through a system tends to organize the system."
The massive theoretical leap required in order to posit the existence of an overarching and sentient consciousness that intentionally "designed" our entire universe demands the same inductive reasoning which belief in the supernatural requires. While it may not be dressed up in the usual regalia of religious trappings it is still in defiance of Occam's razor and thereby suspect.
As a scientific person, I have difficulty in accepting the notion that, "hydrogen is a colorless, odorless, flavorless gas that, given enough time, turns into people." That our 18 billion light-year in diameter universe sprang from a particle no bigger than a proton is mind-bending as well. Much of this verges upon the miraculous. None of it justifies circumventing logic or reason in order to arrive at what may be a more comforting but less adequate description of reality.
Rest assured that the mystic component of human existence does not escape me. Multidimensional existence and human consciousness pose some of the most fabulous conudrums with respect to reality. I just prefer to stick with the facts before until some better ones present themselves.
#41 phil_b, well, it is conditional. The other side does not have any such particular qualms.
Thank you for noticing the conditionality of my statement, Cornîliës. I am referring to what should await an unreformed Islam and not their current population. Islam deserves a chance to survive. If they refuse to expunge their faith of those who seek to commit endless atrocities, then they need to be removed from the equation. Our planet has far better things to do with its time than play hide and seek with a bunch of murderous psychotic fanatics.
Nice try, phil_b, thank you for playing, please try again.
#42That government over the last 500 years has aggregated power to the detriment of other social institutions?
All very interesting, Mrs. Davis. This is one of the first times I have encountered your (albeit rather obvious) argument in such condensed form. In the case of American democracy, I consider many of the functions it has wrested from other institutions to be of advantage to the average individual. Admittedly, some of that has begun to change with the emergence of nanny-state politics and more recent erosion of the separation between church and state.
So ... let's rewind all the way back to the last cogent reply regarding my assertion that Bush has hamstrung his ability to fight Islamic terrorism due to overemphasizing religiosity.
#14I think you are reding too much into Bush's reliance on religion. He already steered off the "Abrahamic religions" concept, quietly but perceptibly. I agree with ZF, and maintain that Bush knows the score. It is just a question of strategy and tactics. Bush's poker face should not confuse you, it is for the enemy's consumption.
In light of Bush's inability to clearly label much of this world's terrorism as being Islamic in nature, I still maintain that religious considerations are being permitted to interfere with proper identification of the enemy.
No, we should not seek to polarize the entire affair along religious lines, but the time is long overdue to place the ball squarely back in Islam's court regarding exactly whose responsibility it really is when it comes to fighting terrorism. Until all Muslims make a concerted and noticeable effort to purge their ranks of violent jihadists, Islam must be put on notice that it will be regarded as a political ideology and not a religion.
#44
Zenster, Occam's razor is a tool that very often works, at least in the sense that it helps to formulate a tentative model of reality. It is not a LAW.
#46
That's way too on topic for me, Zenster. But as you insist, this is one of those tricky parts of democracy. Bush got a lot of votes because of his religious position. To the extent his position constrains his flexibility is a fact of life. The alternative is not that he have a different position but that John Kery be President. So, is his religious position so bad that it makes me wish Kerry were President? No.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 20:20 Comments ||
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#47
Wow, all this without Aris.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 20:23 Comments ||
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#53
Yes, I did, Cornîliës. It's why I mentioned the delicate balance of physical parameters that control the existence of our universe. That human mitochondrial DNA can be traced back to some of the most primative bacteriological organisms seems to make a pretty solid case for evolution.
I never said that Occam's razor was a law, but that does not dimish its usefulness in paring down all the clutter on cosmology's radar screen.
#56
Well, Zenster, and you did not notice something odd beyond "the delicate balance of physical parameters that control the existence of our universe"?
Not saying that it is obvious, but if you look at the table more like an engineer (no preconceived theoretical notions, just the facts), then you may see something... really odd.
#57
I wouldn't want him banned - he's fun to play with....
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/14/2004 20:40 Comments ||
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#58
Not saying that it is obvious, but if you look at the table more like an engineer (no preconceived theoretical notions, just the facts), then you may see something... really odd.
Cornîliës, I trust you are referring to the conspicuous degree of convergence between all of the species?
#59
Zen, I take your point about the creationism brigade.
lex, thank you very much. I have no problem with children being exposed to creationism, but it must never be held up as valid emperical competition for biological evolution. However, I will say that kids should be instructed in critical analysis before being introduced to either subject.
Give them tools, not predigested opinions. Teach them to question, critical thinking, scientific method, logic.
As a parent who approached it this way, I am pleased as punch that my daughter, now 25, is smarter, faster, smoother, and a shitload better looking, heh. She'll go as far as she wants - and already demonstrates a greater degree of true peace of mind, a.k.a. happiness than anyone else I've ever known. The Cheshire Cat.
#61
Zenster, rather the conspicuous degree of equidistance. Now, if I were to apply the Ockham's razor meticulously, two conclusions would result:
1. Either this is a sign of 'intelligent Design'
2. Or our concepts of evolution have some major holes in them.
I tend to pick #2 as a simpler explanation, but there are other oddities that I have no time to mention at the moment, which are even more startling, that I honestly can't exclude #1.
In either case, it is obvious that the tendency to present ToE in its current incarnation as Fact or even as Law are not ...helpful in the scientific sense.
#63
Give them tools, not predigested opinions. Teach them to question, critical thinking, scientific method, logic.
No argument, .com. These should be among the first things taught in secondary schools instead of the very last (if at all). The damage this does to our country is incalcuable. And people wonder why we have such a dearth of native born scientists and engineers graduating from our universities.
#64
Not tired of awards, "Cornilies" -- I've been given that award by idiots of this forum every day here in more than a year. The question was whether you'd call me a "fuckwit" or an "asshat". That wasn't a question that I cared enough about to hold me in suspense.
But tired of being baited (noted two attempts today, once by Robert with "He Who Should Not Be Named" and once here), and perhaps learning when there's no point: If people are even considering the idea of "intelligent design" being taught in *science classes*, then there's no point of connection between us. Might just as well debate same-sex marriage with Islamofascists. Waste of time.
I look forward to hearing how you teach about usage of the horoscope in psychology classes, and your use of tea-leaf readings in meteorology.
Sidenote data point: Since same-sex marriage was mentioned, let me just mention how Massachussets has the lowest divorce rate in the whole of the United States -- that kinda shows which people really care about *actually* "defending marriage", rather than just labelling their actions "Defense of Marriage".
#65
Amen, Zen. I was temporarily disgusted by the fact that she could solve equations, but was unable to build the equation from a stated problem - i.e. a real world situation. They finally got around to breaking down "word" problems in her freshman and sophmore yeas of HS. Sigh. The kid gets algebra in the 4th grade - and she gets it - and 5-6 long years later she can make use of it outside the classroom. Sigh. It would be something of an understatement to say I was not well-liked by certain teachers, lol. It was a long 12 years.
#67
They finally got around to breaking down "word" problems in her freshman and sophmore yeas of HS.
The way math is taught on a theoretical basis instead of through applied methodology is nothing short of criminal. I've heard that there are some changes being made about this. They cannot happen too soon. No child of mine will ever be allowed to suffer through the ivory tower math classes I experienced in school. That I vow.
Posted by: Tom ||
11/14/2004 21:43 Comments ||
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#69
If people are even considering the idea of "intelligent design" being taught in *science classes*, then there's no point of connection between us.
Aris, my only objection would be that one must try to fight such inanity wherever it arises. Abandoning any attempt to connect with people over the distinction between science and theology hurts science in the long run.
Several months ago at a dinner party, this one airhead woman actually tried to claim that science was just another type of religion.
I narrowly managed to beat the party's host in explaining (in a barely polite tone) how, unlike science, no religion is willing to discard even its most cherished tenets if they can be proven wrong. Nor does science require anything to be accepted solely on faith without due analysis and critical examination.
So long as morons are able to trot out such microencephalic blather as "science is just another type of religion" the good fight must continue.
#70
Well, maybe a little bit...
Divorce rates vary by state in part because divorce laws vary by state. For instance, in Nevada (highest divorce rate) a separation for one year is sufficient cause. In other states (Massachusetts for example), separation is not sufficient. And some things are easier to prove than others.
Posted by: Tom ||
11/14/2004 21:50 Comments ||
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#71
Cornilies, Tom, further posts of yours that only concern my person and not the thread, why don't you email them to me directly, and thus rid the forum from the problem of flame wars with me? You'll note that, unlike you, I have my email listed. I promise you to be as much of an asshat and a fuckwit through personal correspondance than as I am here.
#72
Aris, my only objection would be that one must try to fight such inanity wherever it arises.
Well, I generally agree with that, but fighting inanity wherever it arises is also the tactic that gets me labelled "fuckwit" and "asshat" in this forum.
#73
Want to know why Aris is correct about divorce but not necessarily marriage? Read Albion's Seed what Lexington Green at Chicago Boyz reasonably called "the single best book on American history I have ever read." I keep recommending that bok because it is that good and applies to so many issues. The ten states with the lowest divorce rates in 1994? Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, North Dakota , Maryland, and Minnesota.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
11/14/2004 22:02 Comments ||
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#74
Good point, Mrs. D. State laws reflect state values. Sorry Aris, my logic fell short.
Posted by: Tom ||
11/14/2004 22:07 Comments ||
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#75
Tom, you talk about divorce laws, as if it wasn't the people of those states that created the laws in question.
The point remains that the eeevil blue-state liberal Northern gay-right activists that supposedly want to destroy the institution of marriage -- they seem to divorce less often than the red-state conservative anti-same-sex-marriage South.
#76
Zenster, "science is just another type of religion" is indeed inane.
There, though, is something that has been labeled 'Scientism', a quasi-religious state of mind unwilling to discard even its most cherished tenets if they can be proven wrong. :-)
Sometimes it is a combination of carrier choice and a peer pressure, but then we deal with opportunism, which can be quite religious as well. :-)
Science in itself is a tool to form models of reality, utilize them and make predictions based on this approximation. It is ALWAYS tentative, or should be, else it is not science but faith based belief system.
#78
Aris, I wouldn't make too much out of the eeevil blue-states and their marital bliss -- the vote in many states tended to be on the purple side when you look at the actual popular vote. It doesn't correlate well with the divorce rates which actually have a much, much higher degree of variation than purple would suggest. On the other hand, the actual votes re same-sex marriage were pretty "red" everywhere they were held.
Posted by: Tom ||
11/14/2004 22:17 Comments ||
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#79
Aris, "fighting inanity wherever it arises is also the tactic that gets me labelled "fuckwit" and "asshat" in this forum."
No one is calling you names because you fight inanity. It is rather the perceived inanity of others, your profound superiority complex, as well as your profound humorectomy (I've rarely seen you making fun of yourself, if ever) that get you the stream of awards.
Otherwise, if these facets of your personality are not up front at rare instances, you are quite a nice guy. :-)
#80
Cornilies> Superiority complex? I admittedly have contempt for several of the people in this forum -- people like Robert or Frank or .com or Jen (does she post here anymore, btw?) have certainly earned that with their own actions. It's not as if these are my first few threads here -- I've had a long history with these people. And anyone who willingly joins their bandwagon of insults isn't likely to make a good first impression to me either.
I don't make fun of myself? That's probably because here I'm in hostile territory. Not only personally, but also as a European, an EU-phile, a liberal, a person who thought the war on Iraq was stupidity, and several such things.
#81
"contempt for several of the people in this forum -- people like Robert or Frank or .com have certainly earned that with their own actions"
By contradicting to your point of view. How dastardly of them!
"as a European"
I am an European too, though living in NA. Nobody calls me asshat because of it.
"EU-phile"
You'll grow out of it. Once the disconnect between ideal and reality will be so deep that it will hit you over your head. I know my pappenheimers. They'll never disappoint in that regard.
"liberal"
Ditto, once you get mugged, by a thug or by reality. You'd not be the first one.
"person who thought the war on Iraq was stupidity"
That is a serious drawback, and words fail me.
Maybe you grow out of it too. Wait a few years, 5 or 10 maybe, and you'll see it in entirely different light.
No. I assure you, their sins were worse than merely disagreeing with me.
And in relation to the "superiority complex", thanks for telling me I'll simply "grow out of" the things I believe in and you happen not to -- that's so modest and so utterly non-superior of you, thinking that everyone who disagrees with you just has some growing up to do.
#83
There, though, is something that has been labeled 'Scientism', a quasi-religious state of mind unwilling to discard even its most cherished tenets if they can be proven wrong.
Because of the profound insights that empirical analysis has so often provided me, I tend to regard the "unwilling" aspect you mention as just another facet of spiritual materialism. Clinging to whatever outmoded or disproven belief structure is just as damaging, be it scientific or philosophical.
Sometimes it is a combination of carrier choice and a peer pressure, but then we deal with opportunism, which can be quite religious as well.
As a devout capitalist, I have very few problems with opportunism. Those who pinpoint untapped market sectors or an unsatisfied demand for easily provided services and products should be rightfully well rewarded. Predatory business practices and the sadly all-too-common American obsession with unearned wealth, undeserved authority and unmerited fame are other matters entirely.
Individuals who are reticent to alter their game plan (no matter how cherished), especially in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, get short shrift from me. Show me some way to do a job better and I will drop my old method like a live grenade.
Science in itself is a tool to form models of reality, utilize them and make predictions based on this approximation. It is ALWAYS tentative, or should be, else it is not science but faith based belief system.
Like all cutting tools, science (or philosophy for that matter) benefits from being honed against the adamantine surface of an uncompromising quest for excellence. Any softening of that whetstone makes for extremely unsatisfactory results, which is something the Democratic party should be pondering right about now.
#84
Aris claims to be "a liberal, a person who thought the war on Iraq was stupidity"
This is the essence of bad faith. There are two problems with Aris's reasoning.
First, containment of Saddam failed because the French and Russians were determined to gut the sanctions and spring Saddam from the US-UK containment box. Unless one favored the Franco-Russian-oilmen's favored policy of doing business with the monster--ie, a true "blood-for-oil" policy-- the only alternative to containment was the policy first articulated by liberal US President Clinton: overthrowing Saddam by force. Containment by late 2002 had fallen apart, and it would have been extraordinarily irresponsible of any US president to have allowed Saddam to rebuild his WMD capabilities with help from Russian mafiosi and rogue FSB agents of the sort who were receiving millions of kickbacks through Dubai and other Oil-for-Fraud money laundering venues. 9/11 or no, a president Al Gore would have reached this conclusion by the end of 2002. Joe Lieberman would have, John McCain would have, any US president would have.
Second, "regime change", as this policy was officially described in an act of law by Congress in the latge 1990s ("regime change in Iraq is the official policy of the United States"), was in fact the true liberal policy option. It was France and Russia who were lining the oilmen's pockets with blood money and propping up the fascist slaughterhouse.
Regime change in Iraq stemmed from the same liberal impulse as regime change in Serbia. As Christopher Hitchens and so many others have pointed out, the war on Iraq was in fact a liberal intervention against a fascist regime no less than the Balkan intervention against that other grand slaughterer in the former Ottoman lands, Milosevic.
It makes utterly no sense to claim to be, on the one hand, "progressive" and hostile to fascism, and on the other hand to argue like a cynical realpolitiker (see Bush's father and his circle of Saudi apologists-- Baker, Scowcroft, Eagleburger et al). This is incoherence or dishonesty or both.
Iraq posed the same challenge to liberals as the slaughter in Kosovo and Bosnia: backward nations, sure, but giving them a shot at democracy by putting an end to a fascist slaughterhouse is noble and necessary work. I would gladly bet anyone who claims to be a "progressive" or "liberal" but is objectively allied with the fascist neck-sawers that Iraq five years from now will be more democratic, more stable and more sane than any nation in the middle east, excepting Israel. And I will assert again that the psuedo-liberals' hatred of US interventions against fascism in the balkans and the middle east has nothing whatsoever in common with real liberalism.
#85
Aris, asumptions is your middle name. Sorry for not mentioning it too.
Case in point: "telling me I'll simply "grow out of" the things I believe in and you happen not to"
See, I am applying my life experience here. I grew out of lotsa things I belived in. But once you get a large dose of reality, you start questioning your beliefs. Then you'll have a fun time unlearning your beliefs.
"thinking that everyone who disagrees with you just has some growing up to do."
No. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me. Neither I require that you agree with me or else. That is more of your domain, in fact.
#86
Zen, "As a devout capitalist, I have very few problems with opportunism. Those who pinpoint untapped market sectors or an unsatisfied demand for easily provided services and products should be rightfully well rewarded. Predatory business practices and the sadly all-too-common American obsession with unearned wealth, undeserved authority and unmerited fame are other matters entirely. Individuals who are reticent to alter their game plan (no matter how cherished), especially in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, get short shrift from me. Show me some way to do a job better and I will drop my old method like a live grenade."
No quarrel here. I meant moral opportunism, or whoreism, to be more specific. Maybe I wuz being too vague. Will you forgive me? :-)
"science (or philosophy for that matter) benefits from being honed against the adamantine surface of an uncompromising quest for excellence"
Agreed. I would add that one of the prerequisites is questioning everything.
You may point out that it may be like reinventing a wheel. My take is when the wheel works, fine, but if you have a glitch, then the theory goes out of window. (It's a simplification, there is always a process to go through, of course).
#87
lex> I'm not interested in debating the Iraqi War all over again. Yeah, regime change was needed, and violence would probably be the only way to accomplish it. Regime change in *this* country at the *current* time was however stupidity. Franco's regime was also dictatorial, but the Allies didn't attempt to overthrow it when they had a Hitler to fight instead.
I grew out of lotsa things I believed in.
Thank you, so did I.
But once you get a large dose of reality, you start questioning your beliefs.
Yeah, so did I. I've unlearned quite a few beliefs. These are the beliefs I've *currently* ended up with.
But hey, you are just "telling me like it is", right? Not being condescending at all. What a pretty piece of work you are. Atleast when I've shown contempt towards people here or disgust towards their attitudes, I've not made estimations on what their *future* opinions would be. I may be arrogant but I've not yet claimed omniscience of past, present, and future. Unlike, it seems, you.
But since you've started this guessing game, let me guess that you'll only be a conservative until you have to spend your life's savings to pay a surgery for a loved one. Or perhaps your best friend will come out of the closet and you'll end up thinking "Why shouldn't he/she be able to marry the one he/she loves."
#89
Aris, not sure where you get the conservative. In the political sense, that is. In some other aspects, I tend to conserve, if that makes me a conservative, hell yea!
I am liberal with a sligth tilt right of the center, that is liberal in the old sense. Not a Liberal, which is a misnomer, a cover for socialists to commies. I have no love for them, 30 years under commies was enough for me.
"until you have to spend your life's savings to pay a surgery for a loved one"
Well, if the chioce is waiting list for a surgery so long that my loved one would die, I would rather spend my life savings. However, being a smart ass, I beat the game by acquiring an adequate insurance to cover all contingencies.
"your best friend will come out of the closet and you'll end up thinking "Why shouldn't he/she be able to marry the one he/she loves."
No. I would say, "Why shouldn't he/she be able to live in common law relationship with the one he/she loves".
Once the traditional marriage wall is breached, then polygamy and polyandry adherents would feel they are left out, and it will end up with a lady marrying her horse. You do not want to see this kind of mess.
Let's leave marriage for heterosexual couples, as it has been, since the inception of social structures. There is a reason that this social structure survived for millenia. Whenever it was eroded, the society that allowed it did not survive for long.
The United States has launched a discreet campaign to pressure Israel to assist the Palestinian Authority in laying the way for elections in the territories, American media reported Sunday. The New York Times quoted US officials as saying that among the demands the Bush administration has leveled at Israel is to allow Palestinian residents of east Jerusalem to participate in the upcoming elections, as was the case in 1996 when Yasser Arafat was elected. Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei announced Saturday that elections for the PA chairmanship will be held within 60 days — according to Palestinian Law — by January 9, at the latest.
Some Israeli officials rushed to reject the idea that Arab residents of east Jerusalem be allowed to vote in the elections. Speaking on Israel Radio, Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said that Israel will not allow and has no interest in allowing such a scenario because it is bound to impede on the residency status of Arab residents, who hold Israeli identification cards although they are not Israeli citizens.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
11/14/2004 5:59:16 AM ||
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#1
North Florida needs a voice in the Georiga Senate.
#7
Can all the Israelis in E. Jerusalem vote in the Paleo "election", or just the arab Israelis? Hardly seems fair if it's just the arabs...Can jewish Paleos vote in the Israeli elections?
#8
I don't understand this. Why is Israel being pressured? Let the Paleos take steps to break Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, Al Aqsa, whatever. When they have done this, only then do the Israelis get prodded to grant Paleos more leeway. Just because Arafart is gone DOES NOT mean that the Paleos have somehow turned into reasonable people. They have to prove this first.
Marwan Barghouti, a leader of the Palestinian 'uprising' jailed by Israel but perhaps the strongest candidate to oust Yasser Arafat's old guard of politicians, plans to run in upcoming presidential elections, a person close to Barghouti said Saturday. Barghouti, a former West Bank leader of Fatah, has firm street (gang) credentials. He spent six years in Israeli jails before being deported in 1987, and was one of the first exiles to return seven years later after interim peace deals with Israel were signed.
The candidacy of Barghouti, who supports violence but says he wants peace with Israel, could shake up the calcified world of Palestinians politics. By law, elections are to be held by Jan. 9, or within 60 days of Arafat's death on Thursday Israel, however, is determined not to free Barghouti, who is serving multiple life terms for his role in the killings of four Israelis and a Greek monk. Israel has said it wanted the new Palestinian leadership to prove itself before peace talks resume.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
11/14/2004 2:07:16 AM ||
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Well, hell... I'm now teetering on the brink:
Should I throw my hat in the ring - or hold out for that pony?
#2
Sure, Bargouti in prison is as good Baaleostinian president as any. It really does not matter. Their goal is to take over Israel, not to form a viable state.
#3
Doesn't this just save some time? I mean the Paleo President will end up in jail anyhow, better he start off behind bars and save the travel/trial expense.
A Boeing Co.-led team has successfully fired for the first time a powerful Zionist death ray laser meant to fly aboard a modified 747 as part of a US ballistic missile defense shield, officials said on Friday. The test, dubbed "First Light" by insiders, lasted only a fraction of a second but gave the project an important boost at a time it was deemed at risk of cuts or cancellation. The Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency described the event - carried out on Wednesday in a 747 fuselage on the ground at Edwards Air Force Base in California - as a "landmark achievement" for the so-called Airborne Laser system.
"It showed they work," said Kenneth Englade, an agency spokesman, of the laser's six identical, pickup-truck-sized, modules linked to fire as a single unit. "The rest is fine-tuning." The Chemical Oxygen Iodine laser is built by Northrop Grumman Corp. . It includes breakthrough optics designed to focus a basketball-sized spot of heat on a missile's skin to rupture it up to hundreds of miles (km) away. Pentagon officials envision several such aircraft flying by turns near North Korea or another potential foe's territory.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/14/2004 12:42:47 AM ||
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"...This converted airliner battle station is now the ultimate force in the galaxy..."
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
11/14/2004 15:10 Comments ||
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FM-103 radio staff members were granted bail by a Cantt area court on Saturday morning. Telephone operator Noman Ahmed and computer operator Abdul Ghafoor were arrested on Friday when police raided the FM-103 Lahore office and stopped its transmissions. The police confiscated computers and a mixer and sealed the office.
"No! Not the mixer!... Oh, Gawd! They took the blender, too!... And the Cuisinart!"
Speaking at a press conference on Saturday, the FM management —Shafqatullah, Imran Riaz and Afaq Bokhari — said the incident went against the government's claim of a free press and damaged Pakistan's image. "We are yet to receive a written order from a competent authority, neither have we been told why our transmission was suspended," said Mr Shafqatullah. "Even the Information Department and Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (PEMRA) don't know."
Because they aren't the 'competent authority'.
The police said on Friday they had taken the action in connection with a case registered under MPO-16 on November 9, when two other staff members, Afaq Bokhari and Farhat Abbas Shah, were arrested. According to the case, five men demonstrated on The Mall shouting slogans against the government, government hospitals and doctors. However, FM-103 authorities denied the radio station was involved. "Nobody held any demonstration. We broadcast reports against the Punjab Institute of Cardiology and are holding an internal inquiry into the reports," they said.
They were shut down because they protested a bunch of ... cardiologists?
About reports the radio station was sealed because it was broadcasting BBC Urdu Service news bulletins, they said FM-103 had stopped doing so when ordered to by a court. However, they added, "We have a constitutional right to broadcast the bulletins. Our mouthpieces lawyers are dealing with the matter." They denied the broadcasts were against PEMRA rules. "The rules stop us from broadcasting news that could harm the national interest. We did not harm the national interest."
He's got a point, the BBC is on the side of the jihadis.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/14/2004 12:27:42 AM ||
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NEW DELHI: Indian Foreign Minister Nawtar Singh said on Saturday that New Delhi could consider Pakistan's suggestions for resolving the Kashmir issue if a formal proposal was made. Talking to reporters on his way back from the funeral of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in Cairo, he said that India could not consider a proposal made at an iftar dinner or through the media as a formal proposal. He added that if the proposals were made formally, India would consider them.
Last month, President Pervez Musharraf floated various ideas on the future of the disputed territory, including demilitarisation, independence, joint governance or some form of UN control.
Mr Singh said that the success of the Indo-Pak peace dialogue hinged on the implementation of the pledge by President Musharraf last January to curb infiltration across the Line of Control. He said third-party mediation to resolve the Kashmir issue was completely unacceptable to India. He said that talks would be held with Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz during his visit to India after Eid, and the Indian government was looking forward to the meeting.
The Indian Directorate General of Military Operations (DGMO) is preparing a schedule of withdrawal of nearly 100,000 troops, likely to begin from next month. Details about the number of personnel to be withdrawn and the safe areas were being identified, sources said. A senior Indian official said troops would be reduced both along the LoC and from the internal security grid. Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee said infiltration along the LoC had considerably decreased, not thanks to Pakistan, but "despite Pakistan". He said according to his information "militant camps across the border are still operating". "They have not been able to infiltrate in the same numbers as earlier due to our ability to kill them vigilance, pro-active action and fencing. As a result the number of militants in the state has declined, though the attempts to infiltrate are high."
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/14/2004 12:24:18 AM ||
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Anybody ever tell them about "Peace with the Quaraish"?
It was hard to tell who was who in the melee as the body of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was brought home for burial. But one striking absence in Ramallah was the distinctive blonde head of his wife, Suha.
[rummaging through closets] "WHERE ARE THOSE %$$!$%* &*$^?@~$ ACCOUNT NUMBERS!??!
Despised by many Palestinians for steering clear of the West Bank or Gaza Strip during a 4-year-old uprising, Suha stirred even greater anger for isolating their beloved leader during his dying days in a French hospital. "I'm sure she was fearing the reaction of the Palestinian people," said 25-year-old Rania Zabaneh after Arafat was buried in scenes of chaotic fervour at his old West Bank headquarters. "Anything could have happened to her," she said.
Dang, and no popcorn, either.
Palestinians damn Suha, 41, as a self-styled 'queen' who damaged the dignity of the man who symbolised their national cause and muddied his succession by keeping those needing to know in the dark about his condition. "She betrayed the Palestinian people. I only respect her because of the president," said Mohammed Mahmoud Qasi, 18, near the graveside.
That low, eh?
Many Palestinians were surprised when word trickled out of Arafat's marriage to Suha, a Christian from the well-known Tawil family in Ramallah. Officials said at the time she had converted to Islam. With her uncovered hair and pricey French Western designer clothes, Suha raised eyebrows during her public outings in Palestinian territories. Palestinian officials were offended when Suha alighted in Ramallah briefly on October 29 to take over Arafat's evacuation. They were even angrier when she limited access to Arafat in Paris and practically accused them of plotting to kill him. "If she comes to Ramallah, she will see how much the people hate her, but if she doesn't come people will criticise her even more," said one official. From a black car, Suha watched a funeral procession for Arafat in Cairo that was attended by kings, presidents and dignitaries from over 50 countries. She wept at the Egyptian airbase where Arafat's body was loaded on a plane for the journey home. Then they parted ways. Â
"AGGGGGHHHH!! WHERE ARE THE DAMNED KRUGGERANDS!??!
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/14/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Hmmm... I wonder if Yasser married blondie in concious emulation of the King of Jordan and his shiksa Queen, whats-her-name?
#6
Cyber Sarge---that is what I gave her in my posting on WOT Futures.
The thing that really gets me about the Paleos is their grief for the leader that absolutely ripped them off for BILLIONS. There have to be some neural disconnects in the order of the span of the Grand Canyon for that to happen. The Paleos will have some serious rewiring to do before they stand a chance in making human progress toward a decent life.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/14/2004 14:39 Comments ||
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My immediate thought is about the song "fat bottom girls"
As Yasser Arafat was buried, President George W. Bush raised hopes for a Middle East peace and the creation of an independent Palestinian state within four years, suggesting decades of distrust and frustration could be altered by the change of Palestinian leadership. Bush said that building democracy in the Palestinian territories was part of his vision for the world in the wake of the attacks.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair, standing alongside Bush at a White House news conference, joined in pledging to mobilise global support for Palestinian elections and creating the conditions for a democratic state. "What we are saying is, we are going to work flat out to deliver this," Blair said. "I'd like to see it done in four years," said Bush, referring to the length of his second term. "I think it is possible. I think it is possible." Bush originally set a goal of 2005 for a Palestinian state. The future Palestinian state evoked by Bush must be nothing less than a "proper democratic state", Blair said. In a round of television interviews, Blair said the priority is to organise elections that will bring forth a new leadership. "He (Bush) made a very powerful statement that he understood that America's freedom and security is best guaranteed by democracy in other countries," Blair told Channel Four television. "You will find, in respect of the Palestinian state, a real push towards it, but an insistance that it be a proper democratic state,"Â he said.
Wonder if they've figured out that Bush means what he says?
On Five television, Blair added: "The first thing we've got to do is make sure that the Palestinian elections take place."
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/14/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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Palestinians ARE democratic --- one man, one bomb.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Kneeling in the sodden, charred remains of the primary school, Hari Boukameans took a Stanley knife to a melted computer. He twisted and he gouged -- trying to recover the hard drive, hoping to salvage a little bit of the precious Dutch culture of live and let live from the flames of hatred that consumed his workplace. The Moroccan gave up. He slumped in the smelly, black mass of ashes. "This is really evil," he groaned. Spray painting a white cross and White Power slogans on to the grey brick walls of the Muslim school the previous night, Dutch racists had set the place ablaze. The fire gutted the school and traumatised this comfortable town of 40 000 in the middle of the Netherlands. "We never used to have problems here. Now everything is destroyed," said the computer engineer as teachers embraced in tears and strangers arrived from neighbouring towns bearing flowers and cards.
French Health Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said on Sunday there was no indication Yasser Arafat was poisoned, although he had no access to medical files on the death of the Palestinian leader. Arafat was flown from the West Bank to Paris on Oct. 29 suffering from stomach pains, diarrhoea and vomiting. He died in the early hours of Nov. 11 after suffering a brain haemorrhage. "Nothing in the medical dossier, it seems, has shown that he was poisoned," Douste-Blazy told Radio J. However, he stressed he had not seen the dossier itself either in his capacity as a doctor or a minister. He said doctors at the military hospital just outside Paris had done everything they could from a medical standpoint to treat 75-year-old Arafat. 
It was hard to tell who was who in the melee as the body of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was brought home for burial. But one striking absence in Ramallah was the distinctive blonde head of his wife, Suha.
