The most stirring democratic event since the transformations after the fall of the Berlin Wall is occurring now in Kiev's Maidan Square. "Maidan" is Ukrainian for "independence." This is the Orange Revolution, which the whole world has witnessed and, more importantly, adopted. Western European governments support the claims of the opposition, editorialists applaud their aspirations to join the ranks of free, self-determined people. Will they now do the same come January 30 for the people of Iraq?
Courts function in Iraq, but unlike Ukraine judges in Iraq must worry about being shot. "It is very difficult to build democratic institutions when there is still a substantial zone of instability," Mr. Karatnycky said, especially in the nation's capital city. As important is a thriving middle class--"independent economic forces that can financially support alternative political parties and the like." But he pointed out the danger of minimizing a nation's prospects by underestimating the momentum of the democratic process: "If you establish routinized institutions of even quasi-competitive elections, over time they create opportunities for real contests. . . . When a society matures, like Ukraine, these institutions deepen. In Ukraine it took 13 years, in Georgia [the Rose Revolution last year] it took 12, in Serbia about 10 years."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
12/10/2004
9:59:15 AM ||
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#1
What amazing times we live in! I remember the sea-change that was the replacement of Ferdinand Marcos by people power, with US support, in 1986. Then the end of the Soviet Empire three years later. And now the replacement of fascist and theocratic regimes in Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and perhaps in Palestine and Iran as well.
Imagine: our children may come to know a world in which democracy, messy and imperfect as it is, prevails from Cuba clear across to North Korea.
I hope this guy is right... my gut tells me people are not naturally automatons and, given, the opportunity - especially if it can be done anonymously, i.e. by secret ballot - will naturally choose the path that offers them choice and freedom. Having been immersed in an Arab society for a stretch of years, my confidence is shaken (but not stirred, heh), but Afghanistan seems to bode well - even for Arabs. The fly in the Iraqi ointment is that, for reasons that sure as hell elude me, they chose that idiotic "slate of candidates" bullshit as opposed to bona-fide representative government... Sigh.
#3
The WaPo had a great picture yesterday of the "tent city" the protesters created in the heart of Kiev. Acres of blue and gray camping tents...complete with a bright orange Christmas tree.
#5
.com, I think the Shia were wise to go the "slate of candidates" route for now. They have negotiated Sadr-boy's attempt at splitting the Shia community and Zarqawi's attempts at creating sectarian war. If it takes having a lot of discussions over tea and a unified "slate of candidates" to kick off democracy there, that's a pretty good first step IMO.
#6
rkb - At the top of the list, according to articles posted here recently, Sistani et al have loaded up a mess of Shi'a Clerics at the top of the slate - not the engineers and teachers described in the article. I wonder which article is giving the more accurate description? An interview with some Columbia Prof on Fox yesterday reiterated the packing of the list with Qom-trained clerics... and the discussion was about the relationship the new Iraqi Gov't would likely have with Iran as a result. Disturbing commentary.
I certainly agree - just getting the ball rolling is something... I recognize that Shi'a will dominate - but I hoped for them to be employed as engineers and teachers, not clerics. Sigh. I guess we shall see. :-)
#7
I ALWAYS prefer engineers - I can never remember all that clerical sh&t
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 20:24
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Lol! Engineers are the only occupation I can directly relate to, heh. On the other extreme, the hair splitters and nuanced werdsmyths just piss me off.
Lithuanian border guards have unearthed a three-kilometer (2-mile) pipeline for smuggling in moonshine liquor from neighboring Belarus, the guards said on Friday. The thin plastic pipeline, buried a few centimeters underground, ran under several roads, along a riverbed and ended next to the home of a Lithuanian citizen. There was no news of any arrests.
"Yersh! [Hic!] We been inveshtigatin' it fer a coupla monthsh now! [Hic!]"
It was the fourth such pipeline discovered in the last two years but by far the longest. Moonshine vodka from Belarus is sold on the black market in Lithuania, undercutting prices of legitimate alcohol that have risen sharply since the Baltic nation joined the European Union in May. Yet another reason not to join the EU
In that case, it was nice talkin' to ya. See ya around, maybe...
Palestine Liberation Organization chief Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei said Thursday that the Palestinian Authority continues to follow the main principles of the Palestinian cause and has not veered from the footsteps of its late president, Yasser Arafat. Speaking during a visit to the Rashidieh refugee camp in Tyre, where they were welcomed by the commander of Fatah in Lebanon, Sultan Abul-Ainayn, Qorei stressed: "We cannot fill the void left behind by Abu Ammar [Arafat], but we will try to follow in his footsteps and continue the mission and fulfill the trust.
"Yasser's in stable condition, but we're not..."
"All of Arafat's principles, including the establishment of an independent Palestinian state and the right of return, are a paramount will that must be followed by every Palestinian."
I ask again: If you've got your own state, why would you need somebody else's?
Qorei spoke to the crowd on behalf of Abbas after health reasons delayed his arrival. In his speech, Qorei reassured those gathered about their national rights under the new Palestinian leadership. Qorei also vowed to continue the struggle toward statehood and allowing Palestinians living in the diaspora to return to their homes in accordance with UN Resolution 194. "We will not compromise over this right. We will cling to it and we will struggle for it," Qorei said.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:34:32 PM ||
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For wide and easy is the road that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it.
Matthew 7:13-14
#2
Yes, Yes,
We will follow in the footsteps of the unholy
Arafat until we all end up in a highly stable condition (courtesy of the IAF).
Trust us, we fucked up once, we fucked up twice,
there is no reason we will not be able to fuck it up thrice.
And thrice is forever !
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 6:08
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#3
We will continue the practice of never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity
#5
Does that include embezzlement, sirr? Like, Arafish, all the way? Or are you spouting the Arafish bubble line for public consumption, and will change behind the scenes? #1 for 2 billion, Alex.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/10/2004 10:27
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#6
I didnt expect Abbas to unilaterally give up the right to return, esp now, when hes not secure and has an election coming up.
His record on this in the past is decidedly mixed. What he does in negotiations, we shall see. Talk to him, but talk with caution.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 12:25
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#10
As I recall, Abbas doesn't believe so much in the violence option as in world politics and outbreeding the Israelis, in order to accomplish the eradication of the Zionist Entity. His dissertation for Moscow U. addressed exactly that. Merely a difference in tactics, and therefore timing, not goals, which is why he hasn't yet been murdered in -- or out of -- his bed.
#11
the dissertation was years pre-Oslo, let alone pre Camp David. Its always brought up to show that Abbas isnt really a moderate.
I dont know what Abbas really is, as he hasnt been sufficiently tested with power. If the Israelis dont want to be outbred, the best thing is to disengage. If talking with Abbas will make that easier go to it.
#12
I didnt expect Abbas to unilaterally give up the right to return, esp now, when hes not secure and has an election coming up.
The mere notion that Mazen would would even remotely consider such a thing, even after winning an election, is laughable. None of the current "leadership" is likely to be capable of pulling off the trick of selling such an idea to the Paleo public. Were Mazen to be elected and then decided to give up the so called "right of return" by his own volition, someone suitably pissed off armed with an AK probably wouldn't have much difficulty bumping the guy off.
Election to office buys security for nobody in Paleo-land.
A drunken soldier sparked a security alert when he left a costume party dressed as a suicide bomber, wearing a turban, false beard and a combat jacket stuffed with pretend explosives, British police said Friday.
Hummm, sounds like a hate crime, slurring the good name of turban wearers everywhere.
A member of the public called police after seeing the sergeant in his costume walking along a road near the Aldershot army base in southern England on Wednesday. Fifteen police squad cars, armed officers, dog handlers and members of the Royal Military Police were called to the alert.
I'll bet he kissed a lot of sidewalk
The soldier, a member of the Coldstream Guards who had been attending a costume party celebrating his regiment's role in the 1815 battle of Waterloo, was arrested and spent the night in custody. He was charged with a public order offense and fined around $150, police said.
Boy, is he going to hear about this in the mess.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
9:33:52 AM ||
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you can just imagine how much he thought they'd love it as he got out of his car and walked up to the party...hahah.
In a make-or-break vote for Israeli Premier Ariel Sharon and his Gaza pullout plan, his Likud Party voted Thursday on whether to bring in the Labor Party to rescue his teetering coalition. A loss could force new elections and jeopardize the Gaza withdrawal - a centerpiece of efforts to restart peace talks with the Palestinians in the wake of Yasser Arafat's death. But a win would add a partner solidly in favor of the Gaza pullout and resumption of peace negotiations. Some in Labor oppose joining Sharon, but party leader Shimon Peres is strongly in favor. Results were expected late Thursday night. The 3,000-member Likud Central Committee already voted in August against inviting Labor to join the government. But after Sharon fired a key coalition partner on Dec. 1 for opposing his budget, his coalition is more tenuous than ever. He has warned that the choice is now Labor or elections.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:31:18 PM ||
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Highlights
"A counter-insurgency is 50 percent military and 50 percent law enforcement," said Lt. Col. Mark A. Smith, the commander of the battalion and an Indiana state policeman. "You have to combine the two." A law-enforcement background is so common in the battalion that even the smallest units boast a few cops. "Almost every platoon has two or three policemen," said 1st Sgt. Grif R. Lippencott, a Naperville, Ill., policeman and the company first sergeant for Fox Company. "We rely heavily on them at the headquarters level."
So far the police influence has paid off well for 2/24, as they have captured approximately 200 insurgents since their arrival here in September. While the MEU will release a detainee if there is insufficient evidence to hold him, 2/24's record is thus far perfect. Every suspect pulled in by the battalion has been sent to prison. By taking these bad guys off the streets, 2/24 is also making its area safer for local residents. "The area is getting better almost everyday because insurgents are being captured and taken into custody," said Smith. He also noted a reduction in the number of ambushes and road-side bomb attacks in recent weeks throughout 2/24's area of operation. "There are only two options for insurgents here," said Lt. Col. Brian T. Shinkle, the battalion's staff judge advocate. "We either lock them up or we kill them."
#1
This is what I have long called a major goal for the occupation of Iraq: the devolvement from a military campaign to a big episode of "Cops". At this particular point, the goal is now to achieve the "L.A. standard"; which means that, per capita, Iraq is about as violent as Los Angeles. The left, on the other hand, will continue to call Iraq a "quagmire" and "chaos" until it meets what could be called the "Canada standard", which is unrealistic.
#3
this is what makes reserivsts and national guard in this sort of role, invaluble.
Unfortunately your higher command does not have the same law-enforcement experience when administering an occupation. That is one of our fatal flaws. Putting armored and cavalry division commanders in charge of a city like Baghdad and EVERYTHING that is required for securing a place filled with non-combatants AND bad guys.
Cops are used to that, it's pretty much their entire job. Military police have never really had to deal with that kind of environment in their daily duties, their beats and the type of public (joes) they deal with are vastly different.
The active duty division and brigade commanders have done more to impede the pacification of (lets say) Baghdad than anyone else... not to say there aren't good comamnders who get it, but there are a lot mroe who cannot break out of their modes of thinking and address the situation as it is.
a counter-insurgency and peace-keeping operation.
which has never been successfully combatted with traditional mechanized tactics and procedures.
The head of the United Nations nuclear watchdog is warning Iran's nuclear program remains a danger to world security. But Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, also says there is no alternative to dialogue between Tehran and the IAEA plus credible inspections, the Financial Times reported Friday.
It's the "credible inspections" part that is the sticking point
"I hope that in discussions everyone puts their cards on the table. This is not just a technical issue, it's a security issue. If you have nuclear material, the weapon part is not far away."
Are you sure this is ElBaradei talking?
ElBaradei's comments come before next week's first round of talks between Tehran and three European governments -- Britain, France and Germany -- on nuclear, economic and security co-operation. The so-called EU3 persuaded Iran last month to suspend uranium enrichment in return for dialogue. But Tehran's Islamic rulers consider the suspension of enrichment, which they say is for peaceful use, temporary; the EU3 wants it to be permanent. "Iran tried to cheat the system. Now they would have second thoughts ... because we've called their bluff," ElBaradei said.
You have? Sorry, I must have missed that part.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
9:25:50 AM ||
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But Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, also says there is no alternative to dialogue between Tehran and the IAEA plus credible inspections, the Financial Times reported Friday.
Why not just say then that y'all can't do a damned thing about the situation?
"Iran tried to cheat the system. Now they would have second thoughts ... because we've called their bluff," ElBaradei said.
Er, what was that you were sayin' about "no alternative to dialogue"....?
#4
Well, since he's speaking as a Employed for Life UN twitter - and the UN is as toothless as a pack of 20 yr old hounds with only one bona-fido Dobermann is sight who's intelligently not interested in being ordered about by gummy-mouthed historical artifacts, each promoting conflicting self-serving agendas contrary to the Dobermann's interests and living to a large extent on the Dobermann's ability to bring home the bacon - he's right about there being nothing else they can do but talk. Double-heh.
#5
"...there is no alternative to dialogue between Tehran and the IAEA plus credible inspections..."
Sound familiar? [Rewind two years and substitute "Baghdad" for "Tehran".] This clown has no imagination.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 14:23
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rope, rope, rope-a-dope...
Remember, the goal isn't to contain Iran, it's to contain the US hegemon.
An Italian school's substitution of a Nativity play with Little Red Riding Hood so as not to offend Muslim children has raised the Vatican's ire and sparked debate on how much traditions should change to accommodate immigrants.
"You people are crazy!" the Papal Nuncio said...
The episode was the latest in a series in recent weeks which made headlines as overwhelmingly Catholic Italy comes to grips with an ever-growing blood-thirsty Muslim population which some see as a blessing for the economy and others as a threat. Pope John Paul, in a message for the Catholic Church's World Day of Migrants, weighed in indirectly, saying Christians had to respect cultural differences but had to proclaim the gospel and defend traditions. Last week, a public elementary school in the northern city of Treviso decided that Little Red Riding Hood would be this year's Christmas play instead of the Christmas story.
I'll bet the wolf lovers are up in arms over that!
The teachers said the famous tale was a fitting representation of the struggle between good and evil and would not offend Muslim children. The school's traditional nativity scene was scrapped for the same reason. In another school near Milan, the word "Jesus" was removed from a Christmas hymn and substituted with the word "virtue." In Vicenza province an annual contest for the best Nativity scene in schools was canceled.
In Reggio Calabria all the wine was miraculously turned into warm milk...
Conservative politicians and Churchmen blasted the moves. "Are we losing our minds?," said Reforms Minister Roberto Calderoli, an outspoken member of the populist Northern League.
Hey! That's what the Papal Nuncio said!
"Do we want to erase our identity for the love of Allah?"
Sit down. Take a deep breath. Here, have a glass of warm milk...
The Vatican, still smarting from its failure to win a reference to Europe's Christian roots in the continent's new constitution, said Christians should hold their ground. "It is a perfect example of how not to respect the presence of different people, in this case our Muslim brothers, by annihilating our own identity," said Bishop Agostino Marchetto, head of the Vatican's department for migrants. "We have to accept others but others have to accept our identity," he told reporters.
Actually, you don't even have to accept others. You're doing them a favor, letting them into your country. If you remind yourself of that periodically, the rest will flow naturally. If you forget it, then enjoy watching Little Red Riding Hood every... ummm... winter solstice.
The Vatican has been waging a battle to keep Christ in Christmas. Wednesday it harshly criticized a Nativity scene in London which portrayed soccer star David Beckham and his wife Victoria as Joseph and Mary.
That's actually so stoopid and tasteless as to defy comment...
Cardinal Camillo Ruini of Rome went on national television event Wednesday to issued a battle cry over respect for traditional Nativity creches. "These things can seem small but the spirit behind them is radically wrong and can have very heavy consequences on our young people," he said. Italy, with a population of 57 million, is home to an estimated one million officially registered Muslims, making Islam the country's second largest religion.
... with... ummm... (carry the four... square root of 71... plus 16...) 1/57th of the nation's population. That's 1.75 percent, isn't it?
But social services groups say the number is much higher and growing.
... every night, when the boats disgorge their passengers by the light of the silvery moon.
The controversies have divided Italian Muslims, who are trying to integrate themselves in a Catholic country where they have found jobs. "Those Christmas plays are like forced indoctrination," said Abdel Smith, one of Italy's most outspoken Muslim leaders, who has launched legal battles to take crucifixes from school walls.
Abdel would prob'ly be happier living somewhere else. I'll bet Italia was a Catholic country before he showed up.
But Hamed Shaari, head of a major Islamic cultural institute in Milan, said it was "senseless" to change the words of a Christmas song that has 2,000 years of tradition behind it. "It's great that people are aware of our feelings but traditions should be respected. This way, we can respect ours as well," he said.
What a Western concept! He must be killed for violating the tenets of Holy Shariah!
Posted by: tipper ||
12/10/2004
9:25:15 AM ||
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Syrian police yesterday dispersed more than 100 activists who blocked traffic in central Damascus during a demonstration to push for further political reforms in the Arab country. The official Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA), in what is believed to be its first report on a local rights activists' function, said police made no arrests. "A number of citizens gathered today...at the center of Damascus on the occasion of the international day for human rights without obtaining a prior permission from the authorities," SANA said.
"The gathering led to blocking traffic at the small square which was crowded with people and cars. That led to police intervention to disperse those gathered without any detention," the agency added. Lawyers said police held 9 activists for about one hour and then released them. The crowd, estimated by activists at between 100-500 people, dispersed peacefully on police orders to leave or face arrest. Activists said they were calling for an end to the four-decade-old emergency laws in the Arab state, the cancellation of extra-ordinary courts and their rulings and political arrests. Syria on Tuesday freed 112 political prisoners under a presidential pardon. Activists say that about 300 political prisoners remain are still being held in the country.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:23:52 PM ||
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...four-decade-old emergency laws in the Arab state...
Syria and Lebanon were "very receptive" to Palestinian requests to upgrade relations with them, PLO chairman Mahmoud Abbas said in Jordan after landmark visits to both countries. "We asked Syria to raise the status from a representation to an embassy and in Lebanon, we asked to open an embassy. They were very receptive," Abbas told reporters here. The Palestine Liberation Organization has a representative office in Syria, where Abbas led a high-powered Palestinian delegation earlier this week for talks with President Bashar Assad to mend strained ties.
The delegation, that included Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei, then visited Lebanon, home to about 400,000 Palestinian, more than half of who live in miserable conditions in impoverished camps. The trip to Beirut was the first by top Palestinians since the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was forced out of Lebanon a year after the 1982 Israeli invasion. Abbas expressed his satisfaction with the talks in Damascus and Beirut, which he said also focused on "the future of the Middle East peace process".
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:22:43 PM ||
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#1
The Arab world sure is enamored of ties. They normally don't wear 'em, so I find it a tad confusing, but boy they're always yammering and visiting and drinking lotsa tea - all in the name of better ties. Hint: Get an account at Neiman's and you're set, fellas.
#2
They may be receptive right now. They temporarily forgot that the Palestininans are hated everywhere they go. They tried to destabilize Jordan till Hussein whacked them. They almost destroyed Lebanon in the eighties till we kicked Arafat's ass out of Lebanon.
My guess is that the receptiveness period is going to be extremely short lived !
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 6:14
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#3
In the spirit of Arab brotherly love and closeness, give all the Palestinians one way tickets to Syria. Then they can do for Syria what they did for Jordan and Lebanon.
Posted by: ed ||
12/10/2004 6:18
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#4
Ed,
sorry cant be done.
Arafat stole all the money before he got stabilized,
so we cant afford the tickets.
Great Idea neverthless.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 7:16
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The United States will build stronger defense ties with India, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld vowed yesterday, but New Delhi said proposed US arms sales to Pakistan could affect relations with Washington. Rumsfeld, who is in India on the final leg of a regional tour, held talks on a range of issues with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, his Indian counterpart Pranab Mukherjee and Foreign Minister Natwar Singh. They were the first discussions at this level since President George Bush's re-election last month. "The defense relationship is a strong one and something we intend to see is further knitted together as we go forward in the months and years ahead," Rumsfeld told reporters, adding that he had invited Mukherjee for more talks in Washington. Relations between India and the United States have warmed in recent years, but Washington's decision to embrace Pakistan as a vital ally in the war against terror has been an irritant.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:21:42 PM ||
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Hmmm... So India's Prime Minister is a Sikh? I wasn't aware. Now, that's interesting....
Two prominent legal cases battling policies that outlaw public display of the Christian Nativity while allowing symbols of other religions have reached a critical stage. In New York City, arguments will be presented Monday in a federal lawsuit challenging the city's display of the Jewish Menorah during Hanukkah and the Islamic star and crescent during Ramadan in more than 1,200 public schools while barring Nativity scenes during Christmas. In Florida, U.S. District Court Judge Cecilia Altonaga is expected to rule early next week on a request for a temporary restraining order that would require the town of Bay Harbor Islands to allow a Christian resident to the display the Nativity alongside existing Jewish Menorahs
Both cases are being argued by attorneys with the Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center. "Christmas is under siege throughout our nation, and the cases in New York and Bay Harbor Islands demonstrate the kind of hostility and double standard being used by officials to deny Christians the right to publicly celebrate one of their holiest seasons," said Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Law Center.
The New York suit against the city's Department of Education is in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit after after senior U.S. District Court Judge Charles Sifton ruled the city's discriminatory policy was permissible because it was an accommodation of "multiculturalism" and "an attempt to diversify the season and provide non-Christian holidays with parity." In Miami, Law Center attorney Edward White argued in a hearing this week that Bay Harbor Islands is discriminating against Christians by violating the free speech rights of resident Sandra Snowden, who had been denied the right to display her private Nativity in a public forum. 'All I'm asking for is inclusiveness," Snowdon told the St. Petersburg Times one year ago. "I do not know why a baby Jesus in a manger would be so offensive to this town." Defending the policy, town attorneys argue the Menorah can be displayed because it is a secular symbol and not a religious one, unlike the Nativity. Bay Harbor Islands attorney Craig B. Sherman told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel he believes the town will prevail. "All the town's holiday decorations are in compliance with applicable law," he insisted.
Posted by: tipper ||
12/10/2004
9:21:30 AM ||
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Either allow the symbols of all religions, or ban all religions. Halfway is clearly and unacceptably discriminatory. Not to mention ridiculous! And only an ignorant fool would argue that the Menorah is not a religious symbol -- it was kept lit in the Sanctuary as far back as Moses' time, when the Sanctuary was a tent in the desert!! Arrgh!!!
UAE President Sheikh Khalifa ibn Zayed Al-Nahayan, in his capacity as ruler of the emirate of Abu Dhabi, has restructured the government of Abu Dhabi by merging several departments and revamping a key committee entrusted with administering the emirate. The move is seen aimed at pre-empting duplication of work and overlapping of responsibilities and services offered to nationals and expatriates. Sheikh Khalifa appointed his step-brother and Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed ibn Zayed Al-Nahayan as chairman of the Abu Dhabi Executive Council. The council was revamped into seven departments and nine members instead of 12 departments and 14 members. Sheikh Khalifa himself used to chair the council in his capacity as crown prince of Abu Dhabi until he became the ruler of Abu Dhabi and president of the UAE following the Nov. 2 death of Sheikh Zayed ibn Sultan Al-Nahayan.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:20:49 PM ||
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A powerful bomb exploded near an army truck in the southwestern Pakistani city of Quetta on Friday, killing at least 10 people and injuring more than 20, officials said. The bomb, weighing at least nine pounds, had been attached to a bicycle, officials said.
Will the Cycles Of Violence never stop?
The blast in the center of the city wrecked the army truck and at least eight other vehicles. At least 10 shops in a business district were also damaged, witnesses said. Human body parts and blood were splattered around the busy square, which was sealed off by the security forces. "It was a mighty explosion," said Abdullah, a witness who gave only one name. "I saw people screaming and running and the dead and the wounded strewn on the road." Several victims were killed on the spot, and others died in hospital, doctors said. "We have information that 10 people, including a Pakistan army soldier, have been killed in the blast," Major-General Shaukat Sultan, a military spokesman, told Reuters. Four soldiers were among the wounded, he said.
Naeemullah Khan said his father, a shopkeeper, was killed in the blast. "He was badly wounded and was covered with blood. I rushed him to hospital, but doctors couldn't save his life," he said, wailing. Information Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed denounced what he called "a heinous act of terrorism." He said it was too early to allot blame for the blast, but added: "The people responsible will not go unpunished.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
9:19:46 AM ||
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Was the explosive from Air France?
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/10/2004 14:57
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A distant relative of mine recently went to Greece with three other people from his village. On Nov 5 they were reported to have been shot dead by the Greek police while they were crossing the border at night. However, one of the group's members escaped with injuries.
Later he rang up to give the news of the tragedy, but since then he has not made any further contact. He had appeared very frightened and he was in someone's custody. On Nov 15 a person called up their homes to say that he was a witness that the Greece border police had reportedly buried them on the spot.
Since it is now an international matter, I would request the government, the media and human rights bodies to help ascertain the truth and do the needful for the families concerned. For further information we can be contacted by email or phone as given below.
CH. NAVEEDUL HASSAN
P.O. Phalia Tehsil, M. B. Din District, Tel. # 0456-596835 Cell. # 0320-5525622. Email: naveedzan@hotmail.com
Posted by: tipper ||
12/10/2004
9:12:05 AM ||
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I see Boris has taken to writing letter to al-Jizzles now...
Dear Dr. KareemâŠ
The only way that peace will ever be achieved in the Middle East is for the U.S. to pull its support for Israel and allow the UN to disband its government by force if necessary.
Then both the Arabs and Israel should be brought to the negotiating table and made to agree on terms that would allow the Jews and Arabs live in peace as neighbors.
The problem is not the people of the two countries. It's political and social agendas led by the Israelis who are waging genocide in Palestine.
Goyim from USA
Profound. Simply profound. Stupid, but profound.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:11:37 PM ||
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Perfect comments.
And Dr Kareem's reply? Heh: Dr. Kareem is in Baghdad and cannot respond at present."
That's almost as good as the letter, heh. Silence is certainly no further off the mark. Now as for WTF an Al Jizz operative is doing in Baghdad when they are banned from the country, well...
#4
Pass me the Thorazine darts and the jacket.. nurse - go fetch me a gurney..
Posted by: Howard UK ||
12/10/2004 5:46
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Howard,
May I humbly suggest the use of Iocane powder instead of thorazine.
if it doesn't work we should go forward and do unto him what we did to his mentor Arafat. This will probably terminally stabilize his condition.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 6:21
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#6
P.S.
Ahmad
will the denuclearizing of Jewland "CERIMONY" include a magician and a surprise visit of Suha Arafat dressed in her Santa Clauss suit ?? Ho Ho Ho ?
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 6:27
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#7
.com
I love Dr. Karim's picture ! This is way too much, I laughed so much, I almost lost control of my sphyncter:)
As a final gesture of friendship to Ahmad (and before we inject him with an overdose of thorazine) I suggest that after Jewland is denuclearized and returned to the pali's we rename it Suhaland(TM).
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 6:35
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#8
Sorry,
sphincter it is, methinks ??
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 6:38
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#9
Come in Number #2 , your time is up .
Caps lock is located near your little finger on your left hand , and a spell checker can be located here .
I also suggest a course in winning friends and influencing people along with maybe one in anger management . Failing that , just walk off a cliff , thanks in advance .
#10
MacNeils
dont be hard on #2, after all he may be performing
the sacred "etekaaf thingy (TM)" of the moslem faith
You cant do the "etekaaf" and stay coherent, especially since you are only allowed 1 minute for defecating and the pressure accumulates (see today's post of nuggets from the Urdu press, for the gory details).
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 7:26
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#11
Loved the pic. Looks like Peter Sellars in one of his better and now hopelessly unPC movies.
#21
Oops, Steve deleted random verbs/nouns and there was nothing left!
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 9:18
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#22
Steve,
Obviously, you cant nuke the troll since the whole idea is to denuclearize Israel.
IMHO, we should print his stuff out on a 4X4 ft board and hang it in front of the UN building in NY and then quietly watch as the UNcrats perform Harakiri when they realize who their supporters are.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 9:33
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#23
EoZ, you're naive. Of course UNuchs know who their supporters are.
#27
Cheer up, Em, the Middle East is full of them. You'll get another chance.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 12:28
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#28
It's a given that they come out at the mysterious daily rollover - a nocturnal event wherein Druid Priests rearrange the Stonehenge rocks into spiffy new designs and make crop circles all over England from their spaceships creating ever more spiffy designs until the Twitching Hour when they, uh, um, twitch and stuff. Then they put it all back. But during that time, the Internet calls to the Trollians in a siren song that they dare not ignore... I can say no more cuz I need more coffee... but it's all pretty complicated and Druidy and Twitchy and Sireny. Trust me.
#29
Phil: Or else the guy that played the religious character in Protocol--the one that had the hots for Goldie Hawn and was busted alongside the partiers?
#30
Profound as your jewinduist arse moron scum bag fred the Stupid. I will like to ad the iSZARAEL SHOULD BE NUKED AFTER RESENDING IS LANDLESS CHOUSEN PEOPLE TO RUSSIA AND USA WHRE ARE COMMING FROM AND THEN ROB EVERY RICH JEW SCUM HERE IN usa AND DENUCLEARIZE JEWLAND AND AFTER UN CERIMONY GIVE BACK TO THE PALS
Iran strongly rejected allegations that it was trying to interfere in the upcoming elections. "The Iraqi people have a shining record in fighting foreign exploitation and occupation and have proven that they won't accept foreign domination," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza said. "Unfortunately, some political currents in Iraq seek to tarnish the trend of elections there and cause concern in the public opinion," Asefi added. Asefi's statement came one day after Iraq's interim President Ghazi al-Yawer and Jordan's King Abdullah II, accused Iran of trying to meddle in the elections.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:07:33 PM ||
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The police head of Samarra, Maj. Gen. Talib Shamel al-Samarrai, announced his resignation on Thursday, saying that he can not do his job properly due to the unrest in the northern Iraqi city. Violence continued for the second day in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, leaving five Iraqis dead and several others injured including one U.S. soldier. On Wednesday, a U.S. army spokesman Capt. Bill Coppernoll said that eight rebels in two cars raided the home of Maj. Gen. al-Samarrai.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:06:48 PM ||
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#1
Uh, did this guy even read the job description? Reword his statement to "He announced his resignation because he did not do his job properly." and I'm there. The Arab view, when you get it unvarnished like this, is always an instructive eye-opener.
A car bomb blast in a crowded market in the Iraqi city of Mosul and mortar attacks near the Italian embassy in Baghdad killed three Iraqis and injured at least seven others on Thursday. U.S. military spokesperson Lt. Col. Paul Hastings said that a car bomb exploded in a fruit and vegetable market in eastern Mosul, injuring two Iraqi civilians. Thursday's explosion came one day after fighting in the troubled city between Iraqi policemen and fighters killed at least four rebels. Earlier, mortar rounds were fired at an Iraqi National Guard base near the Italian Embassy in the Waziriyah district in Baghdad. Police Lt. Hussein Ali reported that three Iraqi civilians were killed and five injured. One witnesses, Bassem Mal-Allah, who was also wounded in the attack, said; "I heard an explosion and went to see what caused it and then another mortar came in and hit me." Meanwhile, Japan decided to extend the deployment of its 550 troops in southern Iraq for another year.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
9:05:50 PM ||
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RUSSIA reserves the right to carry out preventive strikes with conventional weaponry on terror bases anywhere they are found in the world, Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov has said.
Hmmm... Is there an echo in here? ...echo in here? ...echo in here?
"We do not rule out the possibility of carrying out preventive strikes on terrorist bases at any location in the world," Mr Ivanov was quoted as saying in an address to Russian military-diplomatic officials here. "The only limit is exclusion of strikes with nuclear weapons," he said.
Carpet bombing doesn't involve nuclear weapons, keep in mind...
Mr Ivanov referred to UN Security Council resolution 1566 stipulating that any country had the right to protect itself against the threat of terrorism and said that "a legal basis for carrying out such strikes exists today."
And always has, even in La Belle France...
"Russia," he said, "is far from being the only country to announce its readiness to carry out preventive strikes on terrorist bases."
Though if it wasn't for the U.S. it's be close to the only country. But there will be more...
Without directly naming the US, he said that "precedents have already been set in Afghanistan and Iraq" for such pre-emptive military action. Washington has carried out what it described as preventive anti-terror military strikes in both countries. Mr Ivanov's comments came three months after Russia's chief of staff, General Yury Baluyevsky, made a similar announcement as he met in Moscow with NATO's supreme allied commander for Europe, General James Jones. "We will take steps to liquidate terror bases in any region" in the world, Gen Baluyevsky said on September 8.
We should use the term "liquidate" more often in English, I think. I has a ring of finality to it...
Those comments, made in the immediate aftermath of the Beslan school hostage tragedy and a string of attacks that rocked Russia just before it, raised some concern over the new direction in Russian defence policy. But British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw expressed support for the new doctrine, calling it "understandable."
Posted by: tipper ||
12/10/2004
9:05:23 AM ||
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RUSSIA reserves the right to carry out preventive strikes with conventional weaponry on terror bases anywhere they are found in the world, Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov has said.
"We do not rule out the possibility of carrying out preventive strikes on terrorist bases at any location in the world," Mr Ivanov was quoted as saying in an address to Russian military-diplomatic officials here.
And we'll be cheering from the sidelines. Too bad we'll be cheering a resurgent dictatorship given the way Putin's been handling things after Beslan.
Ironic how he's actually doing to fundamental rights in Russia what the left fears Bush MIGHT do here in the United States.
My apologies to the prescient rantburger who pointed out the Russian bear is still yearning for tyrannical power, and just got scorned for their trouble because Putin did the right things when it came to the War on Terror. I can't remember who they were, for the life of me.
#2
Russia is making a mistake in trying to attack the problem from a similar direction as the US. It should use its strengths to engage where the US has not. For example, they should attack the instigators of violence personally, with assassins. These could be any number of targets that the US refuses to attack, from Saudi princes to Pakistani Imams or radical Islamist political leaders. It is not only very cost effective, but it would give them plausible deniability: everyone would assume the US (or Israel) did it. And best of all, Russia could run hundreds of such ops simultaneously on a very tight budget. 100 such troublemakers could be elaborately terminated for the cost of a single cruise missile and to 100 times the effect, killing leaders instead of henchmen.
#3
the legendary Russian Assassin⢠was usually Bulgarian ...
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 10:08
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#4
Anonymoose has the right idea. Instead of a Russian ad campaign with TV, radio, newspaper, and billboards announcing preemption, go for the quiet well planned, suprise wetwork ops. And if the Russian military is not up to it, then contract it out to competant subs, along the line of what Frank said. Results speak louder than propaganda. Also keeps your enemy existentially paranoid.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/10/2004 10:14
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#5
Hmm, didn't think of THAT. The KGB did a great job retrieving Russian diplomatic workers in Lebanon. Right up their alley, it is.
#6
What Anonymoose said. Division of labor. Note that the Russian military, unlike their spooks, is completely incompetent, corrupt, demoralized, brutalized. We don't want or need their help. But we could use the Russians to provide arab world assets where our own incompetents, the CYA, have been unable to develop same. A pretty neat fit, actually.
#9
WA - The Right isn't as squirrelly as a $3 bill. We don't fear what isn't happening. The rest of your comment is, thus, inoperative in this case. We have freedom and it isn't being threatened by Bush, whereas Putty is transparently seeking consolidated power. There is no parallel.
#10
No, you misunderstand me. I wasn't suggesting it WAS happening in America, i was simply saying that the right does FEAR it (the taking away of personal rights ) happening (not because of Bush, but in general).
#11
WA - Anyone with a functioning brain would "fear" a loss of rights without serious just cause and due process with all of its built-in safeguards. I FEAR you are playing strawman, heh. But FEAR? Caps hurt my eyes, not to mention overstate the BULLSHIT factor, lol! As the saying goes, "Nothing to see here, move along, move along..." ;-)
FRANCE is still looking for a "lost" bar of plastic explosives stashed by police inside the suitcase of an unsuspecting passenger during a bungled sniffer dog training exercise at the main Paris airport a week ago.
"Is that it over there, Jean-Pierre?"
"Nope. Sorry, Jean-Claude."
"I'll keep looking."
"We haven't found it," Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin told RMC radio today.
Have you looked under the bed?
150g of explosives were stuffed inside a case on the luggage conveyor belt at Charles de Gaulle airport. Two police dog handlers who lost sight of the suitcase have been suspended on serious professional misconduct charges.
"Vouse guys are fired!"
"What'll we do now, Jean-Pierre?"
"I guess I'll go back to apache dancing, Jean-Claude."
Police contacted around 100 airlines who had flights from the airport last Friday, but so far no passenger has come forward with the missing explosives.
"Hello? Lufthansa? This is the French police. Have you seen any explosives on one of your planes?"
The authorities say the explosives, which were not attached to a detonator, are enough to destroy a shop front or badly damage a car.
Posted by: tipper ||
12/10/2004
9:03:18 AM ||
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Small change. We still have 390 tons missing, sez the LLL and MSM [/snarky comment]
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/10/2004 10:17
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Some poor slob is going to get caught with this stuff and TSA will slap him silly.
A new breed of wearable robotic vehicles that envelop drivers are being developed by Japanese car giant Toyota. The company's vision for the single passenger in the 21st Century involves the driver cruising by in a four-wheeled leaf-like device or strolling along encased in an egg-shaped cocoon that walks upright on two feet. Both these prototypes will be demonstrated, along with other concept vehicles and helper robots, at the Toyota stand at the Expo 2005 in Aichi, Japan, in March 2005.
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The personal transport arena is taking on a new dimension, though, with futuristic devices that augment human capabilities. Toyota's prototypes represent the latest incarnation of wearable exoskeletons in a vehicular form that is specially focused on transport. Powered robotic exoskeletons have been the focus of much US military research over the years and Japan seems to have jumped onto the bandwagon with a wave of products being developed for specific applications.
Japanese Anime will have to hurry to stay ahead of reality
With an emerging range of devices targeted towards the ageing world population, care giving and the military, wearable exoskeletons seem to represent a new line of future technologies that meet an individual's particular mobility needs.
I'm holding out for the first one with a plasma cannon
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
9:03:12 AM ||
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And just what kind of power source would one of these robotic exo-skeletons use???
I am an Iranian-Australian and I left Islam just 2 days before I write this. I left Islam because your website FaithFreedom.org has defeated my faith in Muhammad. I cannot see how a man who had s*x with a 9 year old girl would be a prophet of God. I had no idea about this. All this time I was thinking Muhammad was just another Buddha. What an idiot I was. I had no knowledge of the Qurâan until I visited your website...
My dad knew absolutely nothing about Islam either. My dad, a Shiâa, decided to leave Islam and wants to become a Christian too. Now, even my mother has left Islam becuase the influence of my dad on her. No more Muslims in my family! :
Posted by: mhw ||
12/10/2004
8:59:12 AM ||
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Thats all well and good but if I were Ali Sina I wouldn't give the guy my address just in case.
Police found four suspected bombs at the Taiwan capital's main railway station hours on Thursday, just two days before a hotly contested legislative election, a railway policeman said. Police found two packages of suspected explosive devices each at both the north and southern entrances to the station in central Taipei. Earlier, fire had destroyed a number of vehicles in a nearby car park but caused no injuries, he said. "After the midday fire in a car park outside the Taipei Railway Station, police conducted searches within the station and discovered the suspected explosives and called in the bomb squad," the railway policeman told Reuters by phone.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:56:29 PM ||
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A US marine who turned up in Lebanon after disappearing from Iraq has been charged with desertion. The US military spent five months investigating the case of Cpl Wassef Ali Hassoun, who vanished from a US military camp near Falluja in June. A military spokesman said Cpl Hassoun was charged with taking unauthorised leave, loss of government property and theft of a military pistol. Cpl Hassoun said he had been kidnapped by insurgents and held hostage. The charges will now be considered by an investigating officer to determine whether Cpl Hassoun will face a military court. The marine has not been arrested and will continue performing normal duties at the Marine Expeditionary Brigade at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, spokesman Maj Matt Morgan said.
The Lebanese-born marine appeared on Arabic television blindfolded and with a sword held above his head, but in July he walked into the US embassy in the Lebanese capital, Beirut. "I was captured and held against my will by anti-coalition forces for 19 days," Cpl Wassef Ali Hassoun said. "I did not desert my post," he told reporters in July. The marine's disappearance was mired in confusion - and at one point he was reported to have been beheaded by his Islamist captors. It is unclear how he was able to get from Iraq to Lebanon. He would have had to travel 800km (500 miles), much of it across Syrian territory. Cpl Hassoun was born in Lebanon, educated at American schools there and then joined the US marines after moving to Utah four years ago. The 24-year-old is fluent in Arabic, French and English and was serving as a translator in his second stint in Iraq at the time of his disappearance.
This always did smell funny. If he had been captured, I'm sure he would have been killed. I remember something about a girl being involved, luring him off base. Guess we'll have to wait for the court martial.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
8:56:03 AM ||
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Desertion? How about treason! I can only imagine what this muslim told his brothers while in "captivity."
NATO said it hoped to find much in common with Russia on Thursday over the Ukrainian election crisis and that a spat over the issue was not comparable to East-West confrontations of Soviet times. "While many in the media have attempted to portray these events as a return to Cold War-era confrontation between East and West, I am confident that we can prove them wrong and find significant common ground here today," NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said. "A sovereign peaceful, unified and stable Ukraine is vitally important to every nation represented around this table," he said at the start of a meeting between foreign ministers from the alliance and Russia. "Similarly, the democratic aspirations of the Ukraine people to choose their own leaders, free from fraud and intimidation, should also meet with our common support." There have been growing tensions over Ukraine, with Moscow warning Western nations not to interfere there or in other former Soviet republics.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:55:21 PM ||
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Nope, no rift at all. Nothing, nichego, rien.
Nothing to see here, move along now.
An anti-terrorism court on Thursday sentenced four people to death for firing at a mosque in Rawalpindi, killing 11 worshippers and injuring 14. Fazle Hamid, Habibullah Mujahid, Tahir Mahmood alias Commando and Hafiz Nasir Ahmed were sentenced to death for firing at Shah Najaf mosque near Khyban-e-Sir Syed in Pirwadhai in 2002. The court also fined them Rs 500,000 each. Another suspect Qari Ashraf was sentenced to seven years in rigorous imprisonment and fined Rs 50,000. Four suspects, Mujibur Rehman, Muhammad Sohail, Muhammad Abdullah and Mubarik Hussain were acquitted by the court.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:53:33 PM ||
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Another suspect Qari Ashraf was sentenced to seven years in rigorous imprisonment and fined Rs 50,000.
Gas supply was suspended to the Guddu Thermal Power Plant after a gas pipeline burst and caught fire near the border with Punjab. Kashmore town was also deprived of gas. Staff of Sui Northern Gas Company extinguished the fire, but gas supply had not been restored until the filing of this report.
Just the Bugtis, letting off a little steam...
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:51:00 PM ||
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Intelligence agents raided an Afghan refugee camp on the outskirts of Peshawar and arrested two alleged Islamic militants, a security official said on Thursday. It wasn't clear what prompted the authorities to raid the Jalozai camp, the official said, adding that they had been picked up late on Tuesday and were being questioned. Another government official confirmed the arrests but could offer no further details. On Wednesday, provincial Governor Syed Iftikhar Hussain Shah visited Wana to thank tribal elders for supporting the military in its operations against militants. Security officials believe that scores of Arabs and Central Asians are hiding in South Waziristan.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:50:03 PM ||
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Maulana Muhammad Shoaib, the Shoba Bazaar mosque imam, who was removed by local traders on Thursday, asked the provincial government to help him gain possession of the mosque, or otherwise he would do so forcibly. "If the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) government fails to help me gain possession of the mosque within 24 hours then my workers will take possession forcibly, and the government will be responsible for the consequences," Maulana Shaoib told journalists during a press conference.
"You know we're unable to control ourselves!"
He called the allegations levelled at him by Shoba Bazaar traders false and fabricated. "I have a property dispute with some traders and I have won a court case against them after which they forcibly occupied the mosque," he said. He said his father, Maulana Muhammad Amir Zaman, had purchased the land on a 99-year lease from the Cantonment Board for the construction of a mosque and a Darul Uloom in 1966, adding he possessed legal documents to support this claim. "The mosque and Darul Uloom has been leased in the name of the Khyber Masjid Committee which has seven members whose names are verified by the police, and which hold regular annual meetings," he said. He said the Shoba Bazaar Traders Association was formed in 1973 and had nothing to do with the mosque management. "Qazi Hussain Ahmad, the MMA chief, is the patron-in-chief of the Darul Uloom and has assured me of his cooperation.
"Yeah! Tell 'em, Qazi!"
However, the provincial government is taking no action against those who desecrated the mosque," he said. Maulana Shoaib said local Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-Fazl (JUI-F) leaders were behind the attacks on the mosque and his house. "In presence of the police, armed traders raided the mosque and my house and they still occupy it," he said. He said he suspected that traders had taken thousands of rupees and gold ornaments from his house. "I do not know the amount of money and gold ornaments they have taken as they still occupy my house," he said.
"I had thousands in there! Hunnerts o' thousands! And jewels!"
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:48:57 PM ||
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#1
make a claim to geico maulana and stfu
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
12/10/2004 2:44
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Railway police officials and armed private guards arrested a militant of banned organisation Sipah-e-Muhammad after a shootout near Sheikhupura railway station on Wednesday that claimed a constable's life, sources told Daily Times. Sources said that Muhammad Tariq, a railway police constable, intercepted a man draped with a shawl at the station entrance and tried to check him with a metal detector. The man refused to comply and fled. Constable Tariq called for backup and started chasing the suspect. He was followed by head constable Liaqat Ali, and constables Abdur Rasheed and Muhammad Rafi. The suspect ducked into a graveyard and began firing at the police. Tariq was hit in the torso and died instantly.
Locals rushed to the spot to aid the policemen, who were unarmed. After a call for help, some armed private security guards took up positions around the graveyard and called for surrender. Five minutes later, the trapped militant surrendered and was handed over to the B-Division police station. Sources said that during the initial interrogation, the detainee stated that his name was Ali Imran and worked for Sipah-e-Muhammad. He also revealed the locations of other militants, said sources, adding that Sheikhupura police teams had begun operations to round them up.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:32:49 PM ||
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The Federal Review Board consisting of three Supreme Court judges will take up the cases of over 80 foreign nationals and two Pakistanis detained in Punjab jails, in a couple of days, Daily Times learned on Thursday. A government official told Daily Times that the foreigners were arrested by law enforcement and intelligence agencies a few months ago under the Foreigners Act of 1946. The two Pakistanis were arrested under the Pakistan Security Act of 1952.
The foreigners were arrested for not having valid travel documents. Some of them were suspected of being involved with religious extremists. "The Pakistanis were found involved in spying for a foreign country," the official said. The foreigners, including seven females, belong to India, Bangladesh, Congo, Nigeria, Tanzania, Burma, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Syria. Representatives of the ministries of foreign and interior affairs will be present at the hearing. The detainees released by the review board will be repatriated.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:30:38 PM ||
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"Hey, Zardari! I think this death threat's for you!"
"Can't be for me. I already got two today!"
"It's got your name on it."
"Give it to Mahmoud. He can't read. He'll never know the difference."
Chief Minister Arbab Ghulam Rahim claimed on Wednesday night that Asif Ali Zardari received murder threats during his visit to Larkana on Sunday and Monday, and the Sindh government alerted police there after Mr Zardari himself informed it of the danger. However, the chief minister declined to provide official security to Mr Zardari, because "we cannot provide security to everybody," he told reporters in Matiari. Mr Zardari "should restrict his movement if he feels unsafe," Dr Rahim said, speaking at a reception in his honour in the town.
Of course he got death threats. He's in Pakistan, fergawdsake!
"Asif Zardari himself wrote a letter to us informing that he is facing a threat to his life, and that government should provide him security," Dr Rahim said at the reception, which was hosted by Syed Jalal Mehmood Shah, a grandson of the late Sindhi leader G M Syed. The chief minister also said Mr Zardari's Pakistan People's Party had not been offered a share in the present ruling set-up. He specifically denied that the PPP was being offered power in Sindh, or the office of the chairman of the Senate.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:29:01 PM ||
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The military has blunted the ability of foreign militants in South Waziristan to mount attacks, with the result that they are now fleeing the tribal agency and only around a hundred remain in the area, field commander Major General Niaz Khattak told a briefing here on Thursday. The military estimated earlier this year that there were around 600 foreign militants in the area. "We have taken the sting out of them," he said. "They are trying to get out and unable to plan attacks. Their command structure has been disrupted. They are moving out of operation zones," said Gen Khattak, who took charge of operations to secure Wazir areas in March this year.
Wireless communication between militants intercepted by security forces showed that they are on the run and unable to maintain contact with each other, he claimed. The security forces have smashed terrorist training camps in Wazir and Mehsud areas, he said, adding that the 70,000 army troops would stay in Waziristan unless local tribes stood on their own feet to defend themselves. He said around 200 Pakistani troops had died in fighting since March. He could not say the number of terrorists killed, as their accomplices usually take the bodies of fallen comrades with them, making it hard to assess the death toll accurately. Pressed on reports in western media that Al Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden might be hiding in Waziristan, he said: "I have got no leads to suggest he is in Waziristan," but added that Uzbek militant leader Tahir Yuldashev might still be hiding in the region.
He denied media reports that the Peshawar corps commander had reached a "secret deal" with former Guantanamo Bay prisoner Abdullah Mehsud, saying the one-legged militant leader must surrender unconditionally and get foreigners registered before the government would negotiate with him. He said the Wazir tribes had realised that the foreigners had exploited their traditional hospitality. "Either the Uzbeks or Chechens will leave, or the Pukhtoons will continue to suffer," he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:27:57 PM ||
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Pakistanis believe that the police are the most corrupt institution in the country, according to a new survey released on Thursday by Transparency International. The survey carried out by the polling company Gallup International asked more than 50,000 respondents how they rated their various public institutions for corruption. Political parties came out worst in most of the countries, followed by the police, customs officers and national parliaments.
In half the 64 countries surveyed, "political parties were rated by the general public as the institution most affected by corruption," the report's authors said. Between 31 and 50 percent of respondents in Pakistan felt that corruption had a large impact on political life, while six out of 10 felt that corruption would get worse in the next three years. Political parties in Latin America, India, Indonesia, and certain eastern European states were judged the most corrupt. Ecuador rated worst in its population's eyes for political corruption, followed closely by Argentina, Brazil, Peru and India. Others with low grades included Bolivia, Costa Rica, Mexico, Indonesia, Ukraine and Uruguay.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:24:19 PM ||
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Police are investigating 500 cases of alleged child abuse implicating maulvis, a minister said on Thursday. Most of the cases have been reported within the last six months in Punjab, Religious Affairs Minister Aamir Liaqat Hussain told AFP. He said that 14 clerics had been taken into custody accused of child molestation but were released by police due to lack of evidence.
"Yeah. Da witnesses wuz all dead."
He added that the ministry had been asked to investigate the claims with the help of the police and that 500 cases of abuse had been reported. The alleged victims included both boys and girls mostly under the age of 14, he said. "The Federation of Madrassas (seminaries) is willing to cooperate with us because the so-called clerics have brought a bad name to madrassas and Islam."
"And, boy, that took some doing!"
Hussain said not all reported cases implicated clerics from madrassas. Some who teach children at home were also under suspicion, he said. The country has some 10,000 madrassas with around 500,000 students.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004
8:22:42 PM ||
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#1
Oops - I commented on tipper's dupe post, sigh. Tricked again by tipper, heh.
#2
Does Pakistan mean something else? Maybe that should be pack it Stan. The amount of paedorasty and buggery in this cult is beyond the most vile crap some one could imagine in a Robert E. Howard pulp novel knockoff.
December 10, 2004: American Secretary of Defense was holding one of his frequent "town hall" meetings with troops this week. This meeting was in Iraq, and one of the soldiers, at the urging of an imbedded reporter, asked why there wasn't more armor and bulletproof glass for trucks. Rumsfeld said, in effect, that the stuff is being produced as fast as possible. The subject of unarmored trucks in Iraq is an old one, as is the massive effort the army has made to armor its vehicles and protect the troops from ambush and roadside bombs. But for whatever reason, the media jumped on this old story and turned it into a politicians nightmare. You cannot be "against" providing the maximum possible protection for American troops in combat. For the soldiers themselves, protection is a "too much ain't enough" issue. It's literally a life and death matter.
But there's more to it than that. The story that has not made the headlines is the casualty rate in Iraq compared to previous wars. Iraq has the lowest casualty rates of any war in American history. There's no mystery to that. Better protection, in the form of bullet proof vests, protective goggles, UAVs for spotting ambushes and robots for dealing with roadside bombs, better tactics, leadership and training, have all combined to keep the casualties down. But not down to zero. American troops are still getting killed over there. And if you just drove a truck through an ambush, or near a roadside bomb, your answer to; "do you need more protection?" would be "yes."
So why isn't there more protection? There is no correct answer. It's the perfect situation for a journalist. No matter what the Pentagon has done, is doing or promises to do, they don't really have an answer. But after a few weeks, the media and politicians will find another target and move on.
Meanwhile, there are some interesting angles to this that won't get much, or any, attention. One is the fact that non-combat troops, for the first time in history, are taking nearly half the casualties. Normally, the combat troops (mostly the infantry) take 90 percent of the casualties. Even in Vietnam, where there were a lot of places where you had to run convoys through "bandit country," the infantry still took over 80 percent of the casualties. The main reason for the big change in Iraq is that the infantry are much better trained and equipped than they were in Vietnam, while the non-combat troops are not as well prepared for combat as they were in Vietnam. The all-volunteer army led to a bunch of reforms that created the current crew of high performance combat troops. That means that American infantry do their work very well, killing more of the enemy and taking fewer casualties. But for the non-combat troops, the situation is worse. In the 1990s, responding to Congressional demands that women be given more opportunities in the army, men and women began doing their basic training together. Traditionally, basic training, in addition to the training, was used to see who could not handle the stress, and, if need be, get them out of the military. Troops who break down in the chaos of combat get themselves, and others, killed. In the days of the draft, this process often led to some interesting games played by people who didn't want to be there in the first place. But anyone who went through basic remembers seeing one or two guys who didn't finish because they, well, couldn't handle it. The army knew they were in trouble with basic training watered down so women could handle it, but they came up with a solution. Recruits who signed up for combat jobs went to a special, all male, basic training. This version was old school, and strived to make sure only people who could handle the combat stress, went on to become infantry. Meanwhile, the mixed basic ("basic lite") was composed of non-combat troops. But many others who should have stayed civilians, instead went into an army job. The real problem here was that "basic lite" also failed to instill an appreciation for the importance of discipline. By the last 1990s, company commanders in non-combat units were going nuts with the growth of disciplinary problems. This extended beyond people not showing up for work on time or not following orders. Rifles were not cleaned, or fired accurately during annual weapons training. People didn't take convoy training seriously. For the brass, it wasn't a high priority problem, and the captains were told to cope as best they could. And they did, until 2003. All of a sudden, thousands of non-combat troops were in a combat zone, and they made a lot of mistakes. The possibility of death tends to get people's attention, it always does. The non-combat troops got more training and more equipment. Companies that made gear for armoring a few hundred BMWs a year suddenly got orders for thousands of kits to armor hummers. Troops in Iraq scrounged armor and did it themselves. It was the old American "can-do" attitude, helped along by the risk of getting killed if you don't.
But there as another problem. A large number of reserve troops were called up for Iraq duty. Now the reservists had joined with the understanding that they would go to active duty in the event of a major emergency, and would stay on active duty, along with everyone else, until the war was over. But Iraq was not World War 3. It was a "little war," and reservists went over to Iraq for a year or so and went back to being civilians. But because Iraq was a dangerous place for non-combat troops, the army had to provide months of additional training to make sure the reservists had a fighting chance. Additional training centers were set up in Kuwait. Sometimes reservists were rushed over without the additional training, but the army knew that was dangerous, not just for the reservists, but for the careers of any officer caught doing that too often. Many of the reservists were proud to serve, but some, reflecting the electorate back home, did not agree with the war and didn't believe they should be there at all. Journalists loved these guys, as they were a constant source of good tips on stories the brass could not defend themselves on. That just kept the officers on their toes.
Meanwhile, basic training was beefed up, and thousands of trucks were armored, even though this meant that many of them wore out prematurely (usually suspensions and engines) because of all the additional weight in places the vehicles were not designed to handle it. In Iraq, most of the danger was concentrated on a few roads and areas. Units operating there got priority for armored trucks and escorts. There were casualties, but many, many more were avoided because of all the protective measures. Moreover, some of the "safe" areas occasionally got unsafe. If you were driving through the well protected Green Zone of Baghdad, in an unarmored hummer, and a mortar shell landed next to your vehicle, you would get hurt. If you had been in an armored hummer, you probably would not have been hurt. But the regularly attacked routes get priority for the armored hummers. Most troops understand that. In a combat zone, it's usually bad luck or inattention that will get you into trouble, more so than lack of equipment. Out on the road, you are taught that sharp eyes and quick reflexes are more likely to keep you safe than just piling on more armor. Most roadside bombs are discovered before they are set off. Most ambushes do more damage to the ambushers than to their targets.
But ask a G.I. driving down those roads regularly how much protection he needs, and he will say "more." You can't defend the soldiers commander, or Secretary Rumsfeld, in a situation like this. However, we're not talking warfare here, but media relations and politics. So when you get asked a question for which there is no correct answer, the only alternative is to admit you're wrong, proclaim that you will do better, and wait for it all to blow over.
Posted by: ed ||
12/10/2004
8:15:52 AM ||
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There are combat, combat support and combat service support elements in the Army. The transportation, maintenance, and medical personnel make up a part of the CSS element. The CSS has never been given the field and combat training the combat and CS elements receive back in garrison. The division and brigade commanders are rated on how well their maneuver units, largely composed of the combat elements, perform. The CSS elements spend most of their time supporting that training. The unit and personnel inventory are designed such that there are no extra units to pick up the support responsibilities for the combat elements if their organic or dedicated CSS units are deployed for focused training. As divisions are given fixed amounts of training resources [dollars, range and field time, etc], they have been traditionally distributed to the combat/maneuver elements. The CSS and to a lesser extent the CS elements are the ones who do not receive significant combat environment training. Basic training is not enough, the training has to be continuously reinforced for all elements, not just for the combat elements. This is the pathology of the beast. To properly address it will require a significant expansion of the forces, not just 24K Congress just approved. The service also has to ignor the critics who alway harp about the tooth to tail ratio of our force. No other Army operates a half a world away with as much of its forces as the US does, requiring a much higher level of CSS than most other armies. Back in GW1, the regular Army was 750K. Both parties cut that down to under 500K in the following years. The most expensive item in the military inventory is the cost of personnel, so don't expect anyone with serious influence to start pumping 100K or more back into the force structure.
Posted by: Don ||
12/10/2004 10:04
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really, my only gripe with the embedded reporter's "trick" yesterday was the "gotcha" aspect and the obvious delight he showed in his email of putting one over on Rumsfeld
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 10:17
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#3
Ditto, Frank G in #2. In principle a valid question. In execution, a typical bit of ambush journalism.
#4
The DemLeft didn't want the USA under Dubya to obey the UNO Resolutions [oobey the UNO]and go to war because it would bust their sacred sancrosant "Clinton balance budget/surplus", the one that Bill himself now disavows any responsibility for. As was indic on the "MY WORD" show vv FOXNEWS, nothing will keep the ordinary combat soldier from upping his equipment no matter how protected or armored it is. DEATH STAR(S) to the M113, nuthing is ever enuff, nor will be enuff.
A US soldier serving in Iraq wants Tim Tams for Christmas and Prime Minister John Howard is keen to oblige. A caller to Melbourne radio 3AW told Mr Howard today she needed his help to get the treats to her sister's husband — an American soldier serving in Iraq. "We are just wanting some information as far as sending food parcels for Christmas ... he loves his Tim Tams," Leanne from Sydenham in Melbourne's north-west told radio 3AW. She said the family had been sending parcels to an address in Iraq but they were taking more than six weeks to get there. Mr Howard offered to help Leanne get the Australian snack to the soldier. "I guess we'd want the bloke's name and his unit ... that would be handy, and we'll see what we can do, we'll try to help," he said. Mr Howard said "thank you" to Australian forces serving in Iraq and that he would be sending them an official Christmas message.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/10/2004
5:07:53 PM ||
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AMSTERDAM — Justice authorities arrested a Moroccan man last month after receiving a tip-off that Islamic extremists were allegedly planning an attack on the Red Light District in Amsterdam, it was reported on Friday. The pizza-delivery courier allegedly conducted reconnaissance of the capital's prostitution zone while riding through the area during work hours on his scooter. He was arrested on 5 November. Newspaper De Telegraaf described him as a "radical Moroccan pizza deliverer". The National Detectives Unit was alerted to the supposed attack plan by three anonymous emails, the first of which was received on 14 September. Emails dated 27 September and 11 October gave further details of the suspects and addresses. The emails warned that "terrorists in Amsterdam East" were plotting an attack on the Wallen area in Amsterdam, De Telegraaf reported. Muslim extremists, the paper said, were allegedly furious at the lack of morals in the prostitution zone...
#5
I wonder if they planned to target the "Avenue of Giant African Women", which is right next to the big church. I think one of those 6'8" tall, 500 pounders would squish him like a bug.
#6
But isn't the whore house district the same as the housing for those 72 virgins per jihadi in paradise? Perhaps the paradise whores have reset buttons so that they become virgins after doing their thing with the grunting warriors of Allah.
When Army Sergeant Dennis Edwards spoke at Dennis-Yarmouth Regional High School last month, 100 students listened in rapt silence as he told chilling tales of battlefield horror in Iraq and criticized President Bush's motives for going to war. Edwards, 23, a Barnstable High School graduate, said he and two other soldiers shot and killed a 10-year-old boy in Iraq who pretended to be wounded and suddenly fired an AK-47 rifle. The boy was found to have explosives attached to his body, Edwards told the stunned audience. Now, Edwards has admitted to his superiors in the elite 82d Airborne Division that the story about the shooting was a lie, Army officials yesterday. As a result, the veteran of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan could be charged with making false statements, face a court-martial, and be stripped of his rank. His confession has also saddened Dennis-Yarmouth teachers and students, who said they felt honored and captivated by his appearance. ''We need to use this as a teachable moment," Superintendent Tony Pierantozzi said yesterday. ''We need to make sure our students . . . clearly understand that sometimes individuals might elaborate stories or examples for their own benefit." No. You should teach your students not to lie. Oops.. sorry that would be to judgemental.....
Edwards, an air-defense technician who remains on active duty at Fort Bragg, N.C., is the first soldier in the famed paratroop division to be investigated on suspicion of lying about his experiences in Iraq or Afghanistan, Fletcher said. Edwards's superiors learned of his comments during routine reviews of media coverage of the division. In an interview later, the Times reported, Edwards said that ''we went over there for one reason, and because that fell through we're stuck over there for another reason." Edwards, who served in Iraq from August 2003 to March of this year, said US officials had not planned well for the mission. Quagmire!
Fletcher said Edwards will not be disciplined for those comments. Although soldiers can be charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice for ''disloyal statements," Fletcher said, the 82d Airborne Division has a ''strong policy" not to prosecute for ''political or policy-based" comments. Any comments on if this is a good or bad policy? Continued on Page 49
"Don't think because nothing hit New York, nothing was tried," says Swetnam, who used to be a CIA officer and a special consultant to the first President Bush's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. "Plenty was tried, but everything was thwarted. And this might surprise you, but French intelligence was key." There have been at least four attempts uncovered in the past two years to strike the U.S., he says, including specific attacks on New York, but the plans were intercepted and the operations preempted. "The last one was a big attempt to strike our financial centers. A year before that, they were putting together a ricin attack. Both attacks were planned and staged from Great Britain," says Swetnam. Also, adds Redlener, "attacks on American and international schools overseas have been detected in advance and prevented."
How is that possible, when the CIA's intelligence-gathering is supposedly in a shambles? Because of good friends in shadowy places. "The French intelligence services have been just phenomenal," says Swetnam. "We wouldn't have captured those cells in Great Britain if it wasn't for the French, as well as the British and Germans." Even the ISI—Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, which once used drug money to help finance the Taliban in Afghanistan—has become a crucial U.S. partner in the spy game. "They're really a bad intelligence service, in terms of morals, but really effective," says Swetnam.
Posted by: Chuck ||
12/10/2004
4:15:36 AM ||
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#1
That's prolly cuz they don't have the ALCU and other "patriotic" groups whining whenever they come out of their offices to investigate things.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
12/10/2004 9:37
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#2
This should be no surprise: having a first class covert intelligence service is probably the most prudent thing to have if they can't afford a REAL military force. Fits right in with their character...
All snarkiness aside, I thank the French spooks. I can hope Old Patriot has a few French contacts and can pass those thanks along.
#3
I think that the American problem is that civilians, bureaucrats, political leaders and the intelligence community have lost touch with what spying is all about. By their Cold War definition, spying is about "gathering information". But while important, there is a lot more to spying than this. Going back to bibical times, spies were assassins, saboteurs, fifth columnists, agents provacateurs, *and* gatherers of information. In truth, they are "expendable", and never to be trusted fully. They exist in the shadows and should never be allowed to stand in the corridors of power.
#6
A hearty thank you, then, to that part of the French government that values results over posturing. So, does this begin to make up for their forged Nigerian yellowcake documents? (The ones that Wilson made such a fuss about?)
#7
France does an excellent job in identifying and deterring and handling domestic threats. Their security forces are far better organized than ours and their judges have vastly more power than the most hysterical anti-Patriot Act idjets can even imagine.
#8
And they are not hamstrung by Church Committee fallout / insanity... IIUC, our CIA is even officially proscribed from bribing officials of any government. Hell, if followed, that puts 95% - oh, okay, 99% - of the world off-limits to effective intel. Sigh.
#9
Thank Frank Church (may he rot in hell) and his commission to destroy American intelligence that the CIA can't get their hands dirty by dealing with nasty people.
As though Boy Scouts would know about the bad stuff coming down.
Luckily the rest of the world isn't so naive.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/10/2004 15:20
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Okay, I'll bite - iff this article bodes true then what is CHIRAC doing, or hoping to accomplish, with his virulent anti-Ameicanisms!?
When Fallujans begin trickling back to their devastated city, they will be routed through sandbagged checkpoints where U.S. and Iraqi troops will take their fingerprints, issue them ID badges and scan their irises - part of an elaborate plan to keep insurgents out of the former militant stronghold. The first residents to be allowed in - possibly by Dec. 24 - will be heads of households, according to Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler, who outlined the plan Thursday. They will be permitted to survey damage to their homes during last month's battle to retake the city and to file claims for compensation.
Five checkpoints have been set up into Fallujah, with roads south of the city blocked by sand berms, said Sattler, commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. All men of military age will be processed using a central database; they will be photographed, fingerprinted and have their iris scans taken before being issued ID cards. The entire process should take about 10 minutes per man, Sattler said. The system has been in use for several months in Iraq, but until now has only been used to catalog detainees. No civilian vehicles will be permitted within city limits as a precaution against car bombs, which, along with roadside bombs, are the deadliest weapons in the insurgent arsenal, Sattler said. All cars will be left on the outskirts of Fallujah and residents will be bused to their homes, district by district. The measures - though likely to be perceived as drastic - are necessary, said Maj. Francis Piccoli, a spokesman for the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force near Fallujah. "Some may see this as a 'Big Brother is watching over you' experiment, but in reality it's a simple security measure to keep the insurgents from coming back," Piccoli said. Good. And I'd bet most Fallujans, those who did not belong to or profit by the jihadis, will agree when they realize it keeps the asshast quotient down.
Posted by: .com ||
12/10/2004
4:00:04 AM ||
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#1
Good id system. check
No automobiles. check
Work battalions. check
High and tight hair cuts. Next up.
Writing home. After the hair cut but before lights out.
#2
I suspect car bombs are becoming the preferred method of disguising IEDs because we've gotten good at spotting other methods of hiding them. Maybe the US should set up corridors for military vehicles only within all the Sunni cities.
Diplomats Fear U.N. Reforms May Be Impeded
U.N. diplomats say they are concerned that calls for Secretary-General Kofi Annan's resignation and allegations of widespread corruption in the U.N. oil-for-food program in Iraq could derail plans for a sweeping reform of the United Nations. "We had a complete makeover in mind - lots of new committees and stuff - it would've been swell!"
When a blue ribbon panel, after a year's work, released a report last week on how the world body should tackle wars, terrorism, nuclear proliferation, poverty and other threats, the spotlight should have been on its 101 recommendations. But we have an agenda! We padded it out to 101 cuz that sounded really important...
Instead the report was eclipsed by headlines that Sen. Norm Coleman, R-Minn., was calling for Annan's resignation over the oil-for-food allegations. And now this brash undiplomatic upstart Senator is spoiling everything!
Algeria's U.N. Ambassador Abdallah Baali said "many are concerned ... because we are distracted now (and) we will not be able to focus on the panel report." We are so confused!
"There is a growing movement to defend the secretary-general and the United Nations, because member states feel that the attack is not only on the secretary-general but on the U.N.," he said. So. They do get it. Good.
Posted by: .com ||
12/10/2004
3:38:42 AM ||
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UN reform=ah yes,a new and improved circle jerk. Wonder who they had in mind to be the pivot person(must be pc,ya know)
#2
(1) Make the new UN Secretary General a Japanese fellow. (2) Tell him his nation will get a seat on the security council when the corruption has been cleaned up and not a moment before. (3) Sit back and watch the fun.
Terror suspect was offered prostitute Ah, Rooters - a claim stated as bald fact. How, uh, Rooterish.
An Australian terror suspect was offered the services of a prostitute by the U.S. military if he agreed to spy on other detainees held at the Guantanamo Bay base in Cuba, according to court documents. Again, not a claim, but presented as fact since they decline to indicate the "documents" are, in fact, merely Hicks' claims as he wiggles and squirms trying to escape the facts. Rooters is as low as it goes.
In an affidavit unsealed by a U.S. District Court and seen by Reuters on Friday, David Hicks, a 29-year-old convert to Islam, said he was also beaten while blindfolded and handcuffed, threatened with weapons and had his head rammed into asphalt. Reminded him of his rave days back in Oz.
Hicks was arrested in Afghanistan in late 2001 and was among the first small group of Guantanamo Bay detainees to be charged. He has pleaded not guilty to aiding the enemy, attempted murder and conspiracy to commit war crimes. He's innocent, of course - he was vacationing and chasing Taleban wymyns. The AK and RPG were gifts from satisfied girlfriends. They called him "Spanky the MinuteMan" but no one knew exactly why... until...
"Interrogators once offered me the services of a prostitute for 15 minutes if I would spy on other detainees. I refused," Hicks said in the affidavit, which is dated August 5 and witnessed by his U.S. military lawyer Major Michael Mori. Hey, it's no wonder he refused! 15 minutes??!! What sort of man do they take him for?! He's a minuteman and proud of it!
Posted by: .com ||
12/10/2004
3:30:04 AM ||
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I read the whole article early last night. It's spinning bullshit mostly. I imagine he has not been an ideal prisoner and has had to be restrained more than once. Much of what he says he "saw" is hear say and worthless no matter what. No matter who witnessed it the affidavit is worthless. It's also more supposed "leakage." Their is a full court press in the international right now to portray the US military man as a NAZI stormtrooper. This is just part of it.
I suggest they call the Major from section 9 in to probe him. :p
#3
This bull%*#@ is straight out of the AQ playbook dealing with resistance techniques. If any asshats from the media took time to read it (I had a translated copy before it hit the internets), they would know that the claims of abuse at Gitmo are part of the enemies game plan. To any media tools - tell me where you want a copy sent and I'll mail it to you - from Bangkok no less.
#4
Can't the Reuter's editors get anything right? The corrected copy: Hicks Offered To Be A Hooker At Gitmo An Australian terror suspect has offered his services as a prostitute in a continuation of his Islamic duties learned in Pakistan, where he dutifully bent over five times a day for his Learned Elders of Islam. Hicks was quoted as saying, "At first I was afraid, but soon became a labor of love."
JEWINDUIST? Give an ignoramus 5 minutes at the cybercafe and he thinks he's a cunning linguist. Go back to drawing figures in the dirt.
Posted by: ed ||
12/10/2004 6:08
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#5
To the first poster , caps lock is located near your little finger on your left hand , and a spell checker can be located here .
I also suggest a course in winning friends and influencing people along with maybe one in anger management .
#6
MacNeils and Ed,
Calm down, I think we have here a rare post
by a true Neanderthal (of the Borrisoid type).
Just lean back and relish each misspelled word.
Chortling is permitted.
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 7:13
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Aahhh , long time since I have seen a pure blood Neanderthal .
He can say what he likes but that caps lock has to go :P
#8
At the risk of stating the blinding f***king obvious. Where do you find a hooker in a US military base completely cutoff from the surrounding civilian population.
#10
ahhh - they waltz in across the mine fields in stiletto shoes, huh?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 8:19
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#11
Paging Private England...
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 8:28
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#12
Of course, Frank, that's the traditional way to learn to be light on your feet. *obligatory mutter of 'What do they teach young people nowadays?!?'*
#14
Alas, once again I have been left out of the loop due to the silencing of a troll. I seem to always come into these discussions late after the comments have been removed and miss out on all the fun. But then again, its always the same line, just different spelling and punctuation.
#16
I'd be pissed if we didn't pound this asshole's head into the pavement. Heck if getting a prostitute in helps turn these idiot's I'm all for it. Prostitutes cheap, lives expensive methinks.
Put a military post on an oil platform in the middle of the ocean and hookers would still be able to infiltrate it. Hell, they'd probably be there before the first troops arrived waiting to ambush them. I'm pretty sure that Spec Forces are required to study their tactics.
As the story goes, Gen. Hooker didn't even bother trying to get rid of prostitutes, he just organized them in true military fashion.
#21
I'm still sceptical. Co-incidentally I have been to the nearest city and driven around this part of Cuba. Gitmo wasn't even marked on the Cuban map. Can someone who has been to Gitmo confirm (or otherwise) that Cuban civilians don't get into the base.
Shhhh, don't admit that here in Rantburg!!! Run for cover, run for cover!!!
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/10/2004 18:18
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#23
get in? there's mine fields on both sides of the fence, both designed to keep Cubans from getting in, hence my snarky stilleto shoes comment
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:20
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#24
FUCK BASTARD SCUM .
FOR THE CRAP COMMING FROM YOUR BRAIN
IF I HAVE A PERSON LIKE YOU IN FRONT OF ME FOR THE WORD THE YOU ARE USING AGAINST A PRISONER OF WAR ..AND I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK IF THE BASTARD OF RUMSFIELD OR GEORGE THE MORON CALL THEM UNLAWFULL COMBATENT TO ME ARE PRISONERS OF WAR IF I HAVE A LITLE FUGHETY BASTARD IN FRONT OF ME I WILL CHICK YOUR FAGHETY ASS TO PULP
YOU BASTARD SCUM ARE SO AGAINST OF WHAT AMERICA HAVE STAND IN THE WORLD BEFORE AND JEWINDUIST NEVER SERVED IN THE ARMY LIKE YOU IF YOU DO NOT LIKE AMERICA GO BACK TO YOUR SHITTY COUNTRY
The main U.S. military representative in Turkey was slightly injured Thursday when he was hit by a ricocheting bullet accidentally fired by a Turkish soldier assigned to guard him, an official said. U.S. Air Force Maj. Gen. Peter U. Sutton was getting into his car at Ankara's Esenboga airport when the gun of the soldier accompanying him accidentally fired, said U.S. and Turkish officials, speaking on condition of anonymity. Ooops, sorry hehehe :)
The general was hit and slightly injured in the ankle by tiny pieces from a bullet that ricocheted from the ground, said a senior Turkish military official, also speaking on condition of anonymity. Sutton was only slightly hurt in the incident, and was treated at a hospital before heading to his home in Turkey, a U.S. diplomat said. Sutton is the main U.S. military liaison in Turkey, responsible for a U.S. security assistance program. He also advises the U.S. ambassador on defense and military matters.
Posted by: Murat ||
12/10/2004
3:06:25 AM ||
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#1
That's a Turkish solider alright. Make sure you don't have the Turks on your flank, they break too easily.
#5
"aaargh he must have thought: Pig season is opened"
Murat, just so you know - I trained w/the Turks a while back. They were generally tough guys but had no clue about safety when it came to weapons. (They also had this propensity to want to arm wrestle Americans for what ever reason.) During a morning formation one of them had a negligent discharge and almost blew off his own foot. We were on a P.T. run about a hundred meters away - giggling like little girls at their stupidity. We could take Turkey with 10 tanks, two baseball bats & case of schlitz.
#6
Friend of mine's Probation Officer walked into court(bout 2 months ago)her Glock 9mm was holstered and cocked.When she went to sit down she shot hersewlf in the ass.Still on the disabled list.
#8
We could take Turkey with 10 tanks, two baseball bats & case of schlitz.
If this is supposed to be the 'cream of Turkish manhood', you could probably cut the number of tanks by four and the beer to a six-pack. (Kinda also tells you where our Turkish troll is on that scale).
#9
FWIW, to both Phiter and Murat: my Dad knew some Turkish troops back in the 50's when he was stationed there, and was impressed with them.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/10/2004 18:49
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#10
From what I've heard, some of the Turkish troops are tough and disciplined in unit tactics. Not so much, perhaps, in the "little" things ....
Posted by: too true ||
12/10/2004 18:54
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#11
Read the book "Soldier" by Anthony Herbert. Now, given that Herbert is a rather self-serving braggart, I assume he still tells some of the truth. Writing about his experiences in the Korean War, he writes about falling back in disarray with the UN troops, under pressure from masses on Chinese Infantry - and ending up on a hilltop with a Turkish infantry battalion. While all the other UN troops fell back, the Turks held their ground. Soo, ther are deep behind enemy lines, completely surrounded - and fighting on all sides. As is wont to happen, they eventually run low on ammunition. Herbert writes; "If you ever have to go to war, and you end up encircled by the enemy, vastly outnumbered, and out of ammunition, do it with the Turks." He says the battalion commander ordered the battalion to fix bayonets, and he then led them downhill on a bayonet charge, aimed the the Chinese regimental CP. They overran and killed everything in their path - with just bayonets - and continued south, attacking Chinese units from the rear - until they eventually make it back to friendly lines.
Your run-of-the mill Turks might be rabble - their professional troops are probably tough as woodpecker lips.
A former leftist radical who spent 16 years in prison for possessing explosives has withdrawn from teaching a college seminar after her hiring sparked protests. Susan Rosenberg made her decision because it was getting too expensive for us in the best interest of all parties, Hamilton College officials said Wednesday. In response to her hiring, prospective students withdrew applications and donors rescinded hundreds of thousands of dollars in pledges, school officials said. Rosenberg, who earned a master's degree in creative writing while in prison, was to teach a one-month course in January called "Resistance Memoirs: Writing, Identity and Change." She was hired through an on-campus organization that focuses on social justice issues.
Rosenberg, who began her activism in the 1970s, was indicted in a 1981 armored car robbery carried out by a gang of radicals. A guard and two Nyack police officers were killed in a shootout. Rosenberg denied involvement in the robbery, and the charges eventually were dropped. She was convicted in 1984 of weapons possession. Prosecutors said she had more than 600 pounds of explosives that she and another defendant had planned to use in "non-lethal" bombings. Since Rosenberg's 58-year prison sentence was commuted in 2001 by President Clinton, she has worked as a writer and an activist for human rights, prisoner rights and AIDS. She teaches literature at John Jay School of Criminal Justice in New York.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/10/2004
2:54:10 PM ||
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#3
And, since she never "got it" and remains as asinine as ever, thanks no doubt to the "rehab" people who are natural symps for her original crime, she can hit the street. Don't let the door hit your tranzi ass on the way out, 'tard.
#5
Yeah, the Sacred 9-Iron is still in the shop, dammit. She 'denied' involvement, but that denial seems to have disappeared once her sentence was commuted.
The withdrawal can be credited to Hamilton's alumni. With any luck, they'll still stick it to their alma mater, just to ensure that this stupidity doesn't happen again.
Edited for brevity.
Japanese lawmakers urged the government on Friday to consider sanctions on North Korea -- a reflection of public anger after Tokyo said bones claimed by Pyongyang to belong to kidnapped Japanese were of other people. North Korea handed over the bones at talks in Pyongyang in November, saying they were the remains of Megumi Yokota and Kaoru Matsuki, two of 13 Japanese who Pyongyang has admitted abducting in the 1970s and 1980s to help teach spies about Japan. Ruling and opposition party lawmakers passed a non-binding resolution at a meeting of a parliamentary panel on the abduction issue but others in the government, including Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, are more cautious about the idea. The resolution, which called on the government to strongly consider sanctions, also urged Tokyo to suspend all food and humanitarian aid until North Korea responds "sincerely" to Japan's efforts to find out about its missing citizens.
Posted by: Dar ||
12/10/2004
2:51:50 PM ||
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I thought of those 3,500 American soldiers and many soldiers of other nations who did not return with us â those men who died of the extreme cold, malnutrition or abuse at the hands of their captors,â he said.
Handwringers and America-haters take note: POWs during the Korean War died as a result of abuse. Real, honest-to-goodness abuse, something much, much worse than being forced to wear underwear on one's head.
The United Nations panel overseeing compensation for victims of Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait has approved awards worth $2.9 billion for environmental damage, the world body said Thursday. The awards by the U.N. Compensation Commission included $2.27 billion to Kuwait for damage caused by Iraqi troops, who used trenches and lakes filled with crude oil to defend their positions. Another $625 million went to the government of neighboring Saudi Arabia for damage caused to its desert environment by military installations set up by the international coalition that forced Iraq's army out of Kuwait. Iran's government also received a small amount.
The panel now has approved claims worth a total of $51.8 billion. Money to pay the claims comes from Iraqi oil sales. Those payments, however, are running well behind the claim approvals. The overall amount released for individuals, companies and governments is now $18.8 billion, the UNCC said. The panel currently is paying out about $200 million every three months, with individuals receiving priority. The next payment is scheduled for mid-January. It is expected to take years to pay all the claims, with big oil companies having to wait until the end. All claims are expected to be decided by June 2005, when the panel will close down. All individuals should receive their money by 2007, UNCC spokesman Joe Sills said.
The panel consists of the 15 permanent U.N. Security Council members. The council decided last year that the claims would be funded by 5 percent of Iraqi oil sales. Until the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq that toppled Saddam Hussein last year, the commission received 25 percent of the proceeds from the U.N. oil-for-food program, which - in an exception to international sanctions - allowed the former Iraqi regime to sell oil and buy food, medicine and other humanitarian goods. The oil-for-food program has been plagued by allegations of massive fraud, kickbacks, illegalities, glad-handing, clout, cover-ups and corruption.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/10/2004
1:33:04 AM ||
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#1
Not only is the UN using Oil For Food proceeds to fund the investigation of their own embezzlement of it, but
Money to pay the claims comes from Iraqi oil sales.
So the UN aids and abets a brutal fascist dictator, actively hinders his removal, and now they're energetically bilking the victims of his oppression. Allawi and the IIG must be delighted.
Posted by: ST ||
12/10/2004 1:59
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ST - You nailed it. Personally, I believe Allawi & Co should tell the UNdead, France, Russia, et al to take a flying fuck at a rolling donut and kick them all out. Zero debt repayment to the crooks who tried to keep them enslaved. Zero compensation to the richer than Gawd Kuwaitis. Zero UNdead access to Iraqi oil or funds. They can sell their oil to whomever they wish - and there will always be buyers at market prices. It's time for Iraq to untangle itself from Saddam's actions and recognize they are suckers to the UNdead and Euros.
#3
I believe Allawi & Co should tell the UNdead, France, Russia, et al to take a flying fuck at a rolling donut and kick them all out. Zero debt repayment to the crooks who tried to keep them enslaved. Zero compensation to the richer than Gawd Kuwaitis. Zero UNdead access to Iraqi oil or funds. They can sell their oil to whomever they wish - and there will always be buyers at market prices. It's time for Iraq to untangle itself from Saddam's actions and recognize they are suckers to the UNdead and Euros.
Maybe if everyone tries to read it a second time, it might make some sense to someone.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 8:12
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#4
Anything the U.N. does must be right, ain't that so, Mikey? Wrong! This is pure bullshit. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia should be delighted to cancel these debts if for no other reason than to help stabilize Iraq.
"Until the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq that toppled Saddam Hussein last year, the commission received 25 percent of the proceeds from the U.N. oil-for-food program"
That's really interesting. Would this 25 percent (that's hopefully still in the U.N.'s bank account, but I doubt it) be considered food or medicine? And how does it compare to Saddam's take? And how much has already been skimmed off for "administrative charges"?
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 8:24
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Two short years ago, all the blow-hards were screaming their outrage that Iraq was supposed to compensate Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for the damage that Iraq caused to those two countries. In this context, the blow-hards were outraged that the UN was not doing enough to compel Iraq to pay.
Now the very same blow-hards are outraged about exactly the opposite. Iraq is not supposed to pay for the damage, and the UN should not make the UN pay.
To try to understand the new logic, see #2 and #3.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 8:31
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1. Mike, it is really simple. There is no contradiction. 2 years ago, Iraq=Saddam.
Saddam=oil-for-food scam. Lotsa participants stuffing their pockets. Sucking the Iraqis dry.
#7
Right Mikey, like you didn't learn one of the mistakes of the Versailles Treaty? The reparations debt undermined the economic viability of the Weimar Republic. So shortly after the conclusion of round 2, a.k.a WWII, the US set up the Marshall Plan. No inherited debt helped for a pacific democratic prosperous Germany, something we could also hope for Iraq.
Posted by: Don ||
12/10/2004 9:36
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#8
maybe if you pulled your head from Kofi's ass to read it the first time it would make sense, MS
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 10:01
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#9
Who's supposed to pay for the damage that Iraq did to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia? Who's supposed to pay for the Kuwaiti oil wells that Iraq destroyed and for all the environmental damage?
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 12:18
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#10
Saddam is going to "pay".
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 12:24
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Mike:
It wasn't Iraq that did the damage; it was the Ba'ath party. Did we demand Germans (non-Nazi) pay for Rotterdam or Cantebury? Did we make the Japanese people pay for China? Hell, are we going to make the UN member countries pay for the OFF damage?
UNSCAM has shown the UN cannot be trusted with money. They need to immediately hand over any remaining funds they've leeched from Iraq to its government.
#13
The thing about war is that lots of stuff gets broken. One reason post-war Germany became an economic powerhouse is that all their legacy systems and equipment had been removed (in many cases literally down to the ground), allowing them to start with the very latest.
And anyway, what damage did Iraq do to Saudi Arabia? The environmental damage caused by the American troops camped in the desert for a decade was directly due to the fact that the Saudis prefer to hire their army rather than doing the work to produce an indigenous force.
#14
On further reflection, how is it that the UN still has access to Iraqi oil proceeds, anyway? Or is is that these claims are being paid out of pre-invasion proceeds -- the same funds Allawi begged the UN to turn over to the IIG a couple of months ago. So yeah, what you said, .com, the UN oughta take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. (Great visual, btw!)
Posted by: ST ||
12/10/2004 18:02
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How many of you were, two years ago, making these same arguments that Iraq should not have to pay for the damage? How many of you, two years ago, were saying that the UN should not make Iraq pay for the damage?
Now, all of a sudden, you are heaping all this blame on the UN for this compensation policy.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 18:47
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#16
So yeah, what you said, .com, the UN oughta take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. (Great visual, btw!)
It's superb wit! Just superb wit!!
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 18:49
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#17
Saddam/Baathists = Current Allawi gov't in Sylwester/Kofi speak. Makes sense. Not a lot of sense, even less than chasing a rolling ....
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:54
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#18
The council decided last year that the claims would be funded by 5 percent of Iraqi oil sales.
Sounds reasonable to me.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 19:05
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#19
Ah, poor Mikey - jealousy is a pathetic response. Sad. Don't address any of the points, no, that would require you to justify that which can't be justified...
By all means, Iraq (Under New Management - it seems you haven't noticed this inconvenient fact) should continue to bend over to keep the money flowing to the UN, your sacred soulmate - the last bastion of unrivalled greed, corruption, and perfidy financial integrity and unmatched effectiveness.
So what is it, Mikey: Are you a mercenary who's getting something from the UN - something understandable, though despicable - or are you just utterly asinine, inane, and clueless?
"I was just in the editing room, working on the last piece," Bill Moyers says. "I thought: `I've done this so many times, and each one is as difficult as the last one.' Maybe finally I've broken the habit." It hasn't been so much a habit for Moyers as a truth-telling mission during his three decades as a TV journalist. But come next week, he will sign off from "Now," the weekly PBS newsmagazine he began in 2002, as, at age 70, he retires from television. "I'm going out telling the story that I think is the biggest story of our time: how the right-wing media has become a partisan propaganda arm of the Republican National Committee," says Moyers. "I mean for gosh sake! Look at fox! Giving people both sides of the story and letting them decide for themselves instead of what we tell them to think.
"We have an ideological press that's interested in the election of Republicans, and a mainstream press that's interested in the bottom line. Therefore, we don't have a vigilant, independent press whose interest is the American people." That explains memogate and the energy the MSM put into soddomizing the Prison Abuse Scandal while ignoring other items (Sudan, Mass graves, Rape rooms, etc...) in order to attack the Republicans and Bush....
For that, his absence after the Dec. 17 "Now" will be all the more keenly felt: Moyers' interest has always been the American people. In 1971, he came to public television as host of "This Week" and "Bill Moyers' Journal," and, next, joined CBS News to do similarly civic-minded programming. Then in 1986 he and his wife, Judith Davidson Moyers, became their own bosses by forming Public Affairs Television, an independent shop that has not only produced documentaries such as "A Walk Through the 20th Century," "Healing and the Mind" and "A Gathering of Men with Robert Bly," but also paid for them through its own fund-raising efforts. "Judith and I will take several months to catch our breath," says Moyers during a recent conversation at the soon-to-be-vacated office he rents at Thirteen/WNET's Manhattan headquarters. "Then I will think about the Last Act — capital L, capital A — of my life."
Continued on Page 49
#2
Ah, Brokaw, Rather, and now Moyer... It's shaping up to be a pretty good Christmas!
Posted by: Dar ||
12/10/2004 13:48
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"We have an ideological press thatâs interested in the election of Republicans, and a mainstream press thatâs interested in the bottom line. Therefore, we donât have a vigilant, independent press whose interest is the American people."
Was he breathing very heavily when he said this?
The true remark should read something like :
"We have a new media press thatâs interested in the truth, and a mainstream press thatâs interested in the the election of Democrats by use of, for example, misinformation provided in forged documents by CBS, and directives of executives like ABC's Marc Halperin to favor Democrats, which has been found out. Therefore, we donât have the ability, anymore, to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people."
#4
I have no problem with Air America et al , trying to peddle their leftist dribble in teh free marketplace. What I hate with a passion is assholes like Moyers using our tax dollars to try and indoctrinate and criticize conservative (or even MOR in his case) ideas. Good riddance to free-loading trash
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 14:01
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#5
He's not going to be hogging valuable airtime on my local PBS affiliate anymore with crap like that Robert Bly garbage?
This is the best news he's ever reported!!!
#6
Bill hasn't been the same since Moskovskiy Kommsomolets was privatized. To think that people like him, Johnson, McNamara, and Ramsey Clark were in power in the 60's. It's a wonder America survived it.
Posted by: ed ||
12/10/2004 14:06
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#7
A Gathering of Men with Robert Bly
Drumming, bad poetry and It's Okay to Cry. Yuck.
Posted by: too true ||
12/10/2004 14:09
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#8
echo the great comments! Hey Bill, the real AWOL story was how you and your commrades missed almost all of the real stories of your time and spent your time cultivating victims.
Where were you during the rise of Islamic fanaticism? Talk about BLIND! Other stories you were pathetically AWOL from - The terror of Sadaam Hussein; The starvation of the North Koreans; The genocide against Christians in Africa; Clinton's selling nuclear secrets to the Chinese; Marc Rich's tenacles....I could go on. The bottom line was you guys SUCK as reporters. You rose to your ranks soely because you were partisan hacks.
Don't let the screen door hit ya. As .com says, forgotten already.
For the first time in nearly 40 years, scientists have produced a drug that in lab tests appears to cure tuberculosis, a disease that is one of the world's worst killers.
The antibiotic, called R207910, was developed by a team of Johnson & Johnson scientists who worked quietly on the project for a decade in locales ranging from Raritan, N.J., to Beerse, Belgium.
They unveiled the patented work last night in an electronic edition of Science magazine. The compound, which appears to work better and faster than existing treatments, acts like a switch to cut off the energy supply of the mycobacterium that causes tuberculosis.
"This is dynamite stuff," said Lee Reichman, executive director of the New Jersey Medical School National Tuberculosis Center in Newark. In his 2002 book, "Timebomb," which details the early 1990s global resurgence of killer TB strains, Reichman castigated the pharmaceutical industry for ignoring the disease and failing to develop new treatments.
"I admire J&J for doing this kind of research," Reichman said. "This has phenomenal potential."
Tuberculosis, which kills 2 million people annually, is surpassed only by AIDS as the most lethal infectious disease. It is tied inextricably to the AIDS epidemic, erupting in immune-compromised AIDS patients and often killing them before the AIDS virus does. At least 11 million adults are infected with both pathogens, according to statistics maintained by the Global Alliance for TB Drug Development, a nonprofit organization... "Dear Johnson & Johnson, Thank You."
#1
This is fantastic news... I recall an article some months ago heralding the research was looking very promising and might lead to this. Bravo!!!
J&J is, indeed, to be commended because, as we all know, TB is not a major problem in the US (where they would recieve full payment for the medicine which funds such research), but is a true killer elsewhere, particularly in the third world (where they will be ripped off for the generic and won't receive dick for all their hard work and research funds expended).
I need a biologist, heh...
If I understand the "DARQs" function, it breaks the Krebs Cycle at the point where ATP becomes ADP - the mitochondrial energy source... How the mycobacteria are specifically targeted - leaving the surrounding cells unaffected - isn't described... but, as the provided link describes, this might be useful in all living things, animals, plants, and fungi.
So, if I "get it", this process effectively turns off the cell's ability to receive nourishment, thus killing it. If the targetting mechanism is (or can be) isolated and tailored. Magic bullets become truly real...
#2
Don't know about the metabolic processes, .com, but TB *is* a problem in the US because immigrants and visitors have been bringing it back here.
My mother had TB when it was prevalent here in the 1950s and it meant she had to give up nursing as a result, since she never tested fully clear of it thereafter. For years I had to have screening tests too, because of her case.
#4
rkb - Now that's truly awful - our first-line responders are always at such unfair risk. They are the reason we survive the myriad traumatic and potentially devastating events.
I am truly impressed with what J&J has done - I hope it can be developed into a spectrum of replacements for our fading antibiotics.
#6
Now, for all those idjets railing against Big Pharma's "obscene profits": do any of you seriously think this would have been funded other than through a corporate R&D budget of >$800M?
#7
railing against Big Pharma's âobscene profitsâ
Ok, OK, Iâm biting on this one.
Pharmaceutical R & D is not profit, obscene or otherwise. Pharmaceutical R & D is a critical component of a vital industry. Also, I donât think most people criticizing the pharmacy industry begrudge the profit taking, at all. The complaint is when pharmaceutical companies deliberately market âprofit makersâ without disclosing known risks. THEY DO THAT BECAUSE DISCLOSING THE RISKS WOULD PREVENT FDA APPROVAL AND/OR LOWER PROFITS. Thatâs obscene profit taking.
Put it in the context of any other product -- a Ford Pinto, for example. When you know you are marketing a dangerous product, but choose to hide the defects from the public eye so that your profits are enhanced, thatâs wrong.
#8
fair enough Cingold, but my Mom retired last year from Pfizer clinical testing, and we've had these discussions. If a drug in testing can cure or otherwise remedy 99.2% of those with a life -style threatening disease or malady, but the 0.8% can suffer disastrous side effects, with the indication which are which unknown, is it a good drug? No. It won't go to market, and the 99.2% won't receive that help, because the 0.8% , even acknowledging they know the risk and freely choose the option, will only make parasitic attorneys rich. Not the family survivors, the Atty's. That drug will never see the light of day. What is an "acceptable" percentage? 99.99999%? Ask an atty, and they'll say NO side effects are acceptable
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:00
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#9
No, thatâs not the law of product liability.
Remember, lawyers donât win cases, facts win cases. And, in the case of a pharmaceutical product liability case, the factual testimony comes from biochemists, physicians, etc. -- who all testify under the penalty of perjury within a reasonable degree of probability for their profession. These experts are subject not only to court oversight, and the penalty of perjury, they also are subject to the oversight of their professions -- they can lose credentials and licenses if they arenât careful. A weak case doesnât win.
Product liability law is highly developed, fair and complex. Some highlights that address your concerns would be the
1. Unavoidably dangerous product. If a product is needed, but unavoidably dangerous, the manufacturer is not liable for any subsequent harm -- as long as the product goes out with a reasonable warning.
2. Learned intermediary. If a dangerous product is being marketed, the manufacturer doesnât even have to inform the final consumer of the product, as long as there is a middle man who is aware of the dangers and stands in a position responsibility to warn the final consumer. Thatâs the case with most drugs -- a learned intermediary (a physician) is actually prescribing them.
What happened with a lot of the prescription drugs in the news (e.g., Fen-Phen, Vioxx, Accutane, etc.) is that the physicians were deliberately kept in the dark by the pharmaceutical companies. The companies actually buried the bad research. IF THEY HAD JUST BEEN ABOVE BOARD AND COME CLEAN, THE COULD HAVE SOLD WHATEVER DANGEROUS DRUG THEY COULD GET PAST THE FDA -- with impunity.
#10
I'll acknowledge your legal expertise in product liability, and the case where the firm knows but doesn't convey to prescribing physicians is a good example for your argument. Those firms deserve to lose, big. But too often juries are swayed by disputable cases, with no clearcut foreknowledge by the Pharm firm...or as in what I cited before, in sympathy to a family surviving a victim of known and acknowledged side effects. Call it a "John Edwards" jury ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:36
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#11
I hear you.
If Big John pulled a fast one, he should lose his license. I HATE attorneys who give my profession a bad name. Most of us work pretty hard to help our clients get fair results.
Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai has declared a holy war on the drugs trade gripping his war-shattered country, which produces nearly nine-tenths of the world's opium. He has told a conference of key figures whom he wants to involve in the crackdown that the trade is more dangerous than terrorism. "As we did jihad against the Russian invasion we should now do a jihad against the narcotics, which have dishonoured our nation among the international community," he said. Mr Karzai got the audience of 500 tribal elders, governors, police and world figures, including US ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, to repeat after him: "We don't want poppy cultivation."
"We want ponies instead."
Mr Karzai says Afghanistan has to prove it is "not a nation of beggars". After 25 years of war, including 10 years of Soviet occupation, Afghanistan has no transport infrastructure and opium can earn farmers 10 times more than other cash crops. "Whether or not the international community supports us by offering alternative livelihood, we should stop poppy cultivation and restore our honour," Mr Karzai said. "We will destroy poppy cultivation and rebuild our pomegranate gardens back, we will destroy poppy and rebuild vineyards, we will destroy poppy and rebuild almond gardens." He says the "cancer" of drugs is more difficult to tackle than terrorism or the Soviet invasion. "Poppy cultivation is more dangerous than terrorism, it is more dangerous than civil wars because this crop is not only a source of weakness, dishonour and defeat of Afghanistan, but also an internal danger."
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/10/2004
12:34:08 AM ||
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#1
I think we could reliably run this story once every eighteen months or so until the end of time.
However, there have recently been significant discoveries in neurobiology concerning addiction. In the near term it may be possible to immunize a drug addict so that the drug has no effect. Strong genetic links to addiction are also being discovered. Knowing the genes that predispose a person to addiction could lead to medical treatments to help prevent addiction (or help in drug recovery).
Biotech may provide powerful tools in the drug war.
JPost - Reg req'd so I'm posting it all..
It was a telling sign when senior commanders in the Central Command recently started counting the number of Palestinian stone-throwing incidents in the West Bank. For the past four years of the latest conflict, called by the Palestinians the "Aksa Intifada," the army counted mainly suicide bombings, shootings and petrol bomb attacks. Stonings weren't even mentioned. Looking at the dry statistics, the level of terror has been reduced drastically in the past few months to what appears to be on par with that before September 2000. There could be a suicide bombing tomorrow, but then again there were suicide bombings before this latest round of conflict, too.
Amazing, what a few deaths will do for regional peace and stability...
The Aksa Intifada is over. No one in the IDF would be foolish enough to make such a far-reaching statement, but the statistics speak for themselves. From the IDF's perspective, the relative calm Israel is experiencing now is not connected to the death of Yasser Arafat or other changes in the Palestinian nation, but is rather the direct result of the aggressive action against terrorists by the IDF, aided by the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) and Border Police. The army said it has arrested six suicide bombers since Arafat died a month ago. This shows the motivation is still there, but the capabilities are steadily deteriorating.
Prob'ly the action started dropping off when Yassin and Rantissi departed this vale of tears in rapid succession...
For the moment, the Central Command can mark for itself an impressive achievement. "Our rate of catching terrorists is now quicker than their rate of replacing themselves," said a senior officer.
I think even the Paleos might see an end in sight, unless they take the opportunity to miss an opportunity again...
This means that the arrests and targeting of key terrorist cell leaders happen about as often as they take up command. They are nabbed before they gain sufficient expertise. In many cases, lower-level activists find themselves at the head of a cell, and even then spend most of their time avoiding arrest. Just in the past two months, security forces have arrested some 800 suspects, including nearly 300 wanted fugitives, in hundreds of raids. Families have also turned in 20 suspected suicide bombers since September. That said, the Central Command recently published a booklet with the names and photos of more than 500 new suspected terrorists, drawn from a bottomless well. "These guys are young, very young," said an intelligence officer. "They don't survive long."
Youth brings enthusiasm, leading to a bullet. Age brings a bit of wisdom, leading to a rocket. Works for me.
Perspective is needed here. By the army's count, there are 2,075,000 Palestinians living in the West Bank and 229,000 Jewish settlers in 123 settlements. The State of Israel deploys about 10,000 soldiers to protect the country from Palestinian terrorism. There are roughly 40 terrorist cells operating throughout the territories, mostly inside the large Arab cities. There is no longer any organizational discipline among terrorist groups. The groups themselves are more or less cocktails of Hamas, Fatah Tanzim, Islamic Jihad and PFLP members. IDF sources described them as "less ideological and more territorial," employing gang-type extortion to survive.
I think of them as gangs with poltical faces...
The Palestinians are said to be in a state of anarchy, accumulated fatigue and suffering from a loss of a sense of internal security from increasing crime, murder and burglary. Only 10 percent of crimes ever reach court, and there is a return to the clan justice of old. IDF intelligence holds that nationalist terror is on the decline and global terrorism is taking its place. This can be seen in the increasing involvement of Hizbullah in Palestinian terror. The army maintains that about 75% of all West Bank terrorist cells are funded, directed and even armed by Hizbullah. It is also expected that Hizbullah will try to infiltrate agents into the territories and terrorists may adopt some of its public-relations tactics like filming attacks.
Hezbollah will probably provide the incident leading to war with Iran and/or Syria...
Much has been written about the IDF tactics developed to wage this low-intensity conflict. Technology such as sensors and surveillance tools, together with an overhauled doctrine, have allowed the army to reduce its battle-order significantly in the past year. That means fewer soldiers are performing more missions. Also, operations that once took a few days can now be implemented with three or hours' notice, and sometimes even less. Tanks have not been used in the West Bank for more than two years. The IDF is proud of its record. It feels it has met its goals of providing Israel with an acceptable level of security, preventing internationalization of the conflict, blocking Palestinian achievements through violence and providing the government with an environment suitable for negotiations.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004
12:31:32 PM ||
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#1
Excellent. Long predicted at RB the pali army is now being led by 90 day wonders.
#2
Terrorism is a business and needs its cash flow. A lot of that has dried up over the last couple of years. Hence the need for self-funding by cells, which exposes the cells to arrest/revenge. Still need to stop the cash coming from Iran and, dare I say it, the UN.
Two brothers were determined to stop someone from breaking into their grandfather's Washington County [PA] home for the third time in less than a week, so they armed themselves with rifles and camped out, police said. Sure enough, Brian and Bob Reihner came face-to-face with an armed man breaking into their grandfather's North Franklin Township home early yesterday, township police Chief Mark Kavakich said. The confrontation ended with the arrest of Steven A. Wallace, 19, of Washington, police said. "This is how kids should take care of their grandparents," Kavakich said. "They stepped up and may have saved their grandfather's life."
The Reihners decided to stay with their grandfather, Daniel Denman, after two men confronted Denman in his home over the weekend and someone again robbed the house on Tuesday. The people stole cash, a compact disc player and rolls of quarters. Early yesterday, the brothers were napping when they heard someone forcing their way into Denman's home, Brian Reihner said. The Reihners aimed their rifles at Wallace, who pulled a handgun on the brothers before he ran out of the house, Brian Reihner said. Police later arrested Wallace in a shopping mall parking lot. He was arraigned on burglary, aggravated assault and other charges. "Something had to be done," Brian Reihner said. "I was afraid he'd do bodily harm to my grandfather. He was there for the money and would have done whatever it takes to get it." I love happy endings! Next step: Get Grandpa his own gun for Christmas!
Posted by: Dar ||
12/10/2004
12:30:49 PM ||
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#1
Wallace will be free & looking to get even soon; a happier ending would have been if the Reihner boys had killed him dead as soon as he pulled the handgun.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 13:10
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#3
Very true--there is hope that the creep will get a clue and turn his life around. I do know that if I'd been holding the rifle on him as he pulled out a gun, he'd be in the hospital or morgue right now. I can't believe they allowed him to pull out the pistol while they had him covered, but without being there I can only speculate.
Posted by: Dar ||
12/10/2004 13:37
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Posted by: tipper ||
12/10/2004
12:30:05 AM ||
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#1
But they are Holy Men - this is not possible. Like Diane told me when she tested a local Saudi imam and then his wife and young daughter at the Family Clinic in Dhahran - and they all came up positive for STD (a strain of gonorrhea, to be precise)... He said, "I am a Holy Man. This is not possible!" - and refused treatment for the lot of them.
#2
Does Pakistan mean something else? Maybe that should be pack it Stan. The amount of paedorasty and buggery in this cult is beyond the most vile crap some one could imagine in a Robert E. Howard pulp novel knockoff.
This evening I attended an event in Washington, DC that was sponsored by Spirit Of America.net. It was held at the Cosmos Club, an exclusive men's club that's fancy enough that we all had to dress up. Several people spoke to us, including Jim Hake from Spirit of America, and Omar and Mohammed, the bloggers of Iraq The Model. It was great to see the people behind the wonderful works of Spirit of America, and to hear first hand about how things are going in Iraq. Omar and Mohammed are dismayed at the portrayal of the situation in Iraq from the media, and want us to know that things are going good and that the Iraqi people are thankful to the US for their liberation. They are enthused at the prospect of starting an arabic-language blog which will help spread the word about democracy and the upcoming election. They explained that there are lots of internet cafes in Iraq and that they are getting a lot of use by average citizens, but they are particularly interested in getting debate and conversation going between university students. Marine LtCol David Couvillon, who governed one of the Iraq provinces during the occupation, also spoke to us. LtCol Couvillon was the one made the first request to Spirit Of America for assistance, and started the ball rolling.
Now here's the best part: today, without prior notice, Omar and Mohammed went to the Oval Office and met with President Bush! They said that the meeting lasted about a half hour, and the President was very interested in hearing the thoughts and opinions of Iraqi citizens first hand. He wasn't aware until then of the good things that Spirit Of America has been doing over there to help the Iraqi people and assist in their obtaining democracy. Omar joked that he got to meet POTUS and they didn't even search his pockets beforehand.
I met briefly with Omar and had him pose for a photo. I didn't talk to Mohammed but grabbed a quick shot of him which I know is is out of focus but I'm posting it anyway.
Omar
Mohammed
For more information on the Friends of Democracy project, go here. Please join American Faith in helping this worthy cause by contributing through The Blogger Challenge.
Update: I have blurred the photos since some have expressed concern about them. But please note: there was a professional photographer at the event, filming everything, and it sure looked like it was something that would be released to the public. In fact, Jim Hake said that the man doing the filming was the one who set up the "Iraqi Amputees Meet The President" photo op. If I see these guys on the news, the unblurred photos are going back up.
Posted by: Korora ||
12/10/2004
12:23:00 AM ||
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#1
And at least two Rantburgers also attended this function and got to meet Mohammed and Omar. That would be myself and 2b. It was a very special night and I'm writing about it now but it'll take some time. Check back here this afternoon...maybe 2b will have some thoughts too.
I was happy to be present and felt graced by the opportunity to touch such goodness and optimism.
I read blogs and thus have a far better idea of whatâs really going on in Iraq than those who read only the MSM wire feeds, which, IMHO, could be easily be condensed down to one sentence: "You've already lost the war, go home." (Or, as they say on Fox, âHas America already lost the war, and should America go home?â)
But what surprised me most, was how much it surprised me to hear their portrayal of the normalcy of life in Iraq and the overall Iraqi enthusiasm for their elections and their future. I donât know why it surprised me, because, as a voracious blog reader I do get access to the good news. But I think that the daily dose of depression dished out by âprofessionalâ reporters casts such a ghostly pall, that still shrouds my ability to see these events in their true light.
Listening last night, the real picture of Iraq suddenly came into focus; people going about their daily life, taking their kids to school, chatting in internet cafes, and displaying their art from the second story of a burned out building. They hear the bombs in the distance, but life goes on. They are eager to join the modern world, to reclaim their nation and its rich potential. They arenât cowering in fear or looking over their shoulders to the past. They are looking forward and the future looks brighter than it has in so many years.
As I listened, I felt really cheated. Here is this wonderful true-life story going on in Iraq and we are intentionally deprived by partisan hacks in the media of an opportunity to share in their hopes, dreams, joys and sorrows. Instead, all that we ever get are reports of doom, gloom and darkness, from coffee-shop-poet-wannabe-reporters, who believe that greatness is measured by one's ability to fit the most number of words referencing death and despair into one paragraph.
What an opportunity these reporters are missing! They are graced by God with the opportunity to record, first hand, a moment in history that is perhaps as pivotal to civilization as our own revolution was. Itâs as if they were actually present at Yorktown or Valley Forge!! How sad that instead of writing works of greatness to be passed down through the ages, that they write only drivel destined for the same garbage bins as out-of-focus photographs of Historyâs Great Moments.
Anyway, I can only say thank you to Mohammed, Omar, Marine LtCol David Couvillon and Jim Hake (and others). Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share in your joy and accomplishments in this great adventure to end horrific oppression and set a nation free.
#5
I'm jealous! I managed to arrage to be free on Monday to go meet the team in NYC, but the brothers were delayed in transit and I couldn't get free on Tuesday when they did arrive.
#6
And I got to meet Sea - who is a really nice and a great person (who BTW everyone thought made a great public comment). I've got to go now, but I look forward to hearing more!
#9
My heart is still full after a fantastic evening meeting the people who are doing the unbelievably hard work of making the world safe and free, one blog post, one soccer jersey, one battalion of US Marines at a time.
Iâm on Spirit of Americaâs mailing list, and they sent notice about an event they were hosting in several cities, with a stop at the Cosmos Club in DC on 9 December. I figgered it would basically be a fundraiser, but I wanted to say âthanksâ to Jim Hake (the man who made it all happen). Yesterday I made my way downtown to a âdiplomatic permit onlyâ parking space in front of the Indian Embassy, and with a quick dash through the pouring December rain, I was inside the Club.
First, a word about the Cosmos Club. It is magnificent â a beautiful huge mansion along Embassy Row on Massachusetts Avenue. Inside, all is marble and carved mahogany, with everything youâd expect. Sweeping staircases and mammoth fireplaces, grim oil portraits of past presidents, the works.
We were ushered up the stairs to a spacious parlor, with complimentary wine and the standard cheese/crackers/grapes/veggies/ranch dip display that afflicts every Washington cocktail hour. I didnât recognize anyone in the crowd of about one hundred. After a few minutes, another door opened, the crowd moved in to the conference room and we chose our seats. The panel of speakers was arrayed across the front of the room, with a video camera at the ready.
Iâm sorry that I donât remember the name of the lady who did the introductions, or of the gentleman who was the past President of the Club. After they spoke, they passed the microphone to Jim Hake, the founder and engine of Spirit of America. Heâs about 6 feet tall, with nice sandy brown hair and an Afghanistan/Iraq tan. He told us about his experiences as a businessman and then as the driving force behind SoA. Then he teased us by passing up Omar and Mohammed and handing the microphone to the man at the other end of the row, a man of military bearing and a really great smile.
USMC Lt. Col. David Couvillon was a delight. Heâs a reservist from Louisiana who was tasked to lead 935 sailors and Marines to Iraq right after Saddamâs statue fell. Upon arrival, he presented himself to his CO, and said âReporting for duty, sir. What are my orders?â The CO looked at him and said, âCongratulations, Couvillon. Youâre now the governor of the province.â
âEr, the what, sir?â
âThe governor of the province. Youâre responsible for everything that happens here.â
âSir, what are my orders? What is my mission? What are my goals?â
âYouâre responsible for everything that happens here.â
âOh. Of course, sir. Thank you, sir.â
So his job became the preservation and rebuilding of his province (and I canât for the life of me remember which one it was. Sorry). He had to lead his 935 men and women (only 60 of whom were over the age of 25) to provide security and law enforcement, restore electric and water plants, provide for waste removal and sewage treatment, and maybe another million or so details. His stories were great âlike how the Iraqi electric engineers were ecstatic to receive the ultimate manna from Heaven: duct tape. How he had to grant petitions in his role as governor; citizens would come to ask him for permission to marry, to buy a house, to start a business. One farmer came to him for permission to harvest the crops:
âAre they your crops?â
âYes, sir.â
âAre they ready to be harvested?â
âYes, sir.â
âThen please, by all means, harvest your crops.â
âThank you, sir. Another question, please?â
âYes?â
âWhere do I sell my crops?â
That was the legacy and the broken society that Saddam left behind him on his way to the spider hole. The Iraqis had to be taught how to make decisions for themselves and operate independently, while trusting each other enough to work together. The Marines took extra special care to treat the kids well; giving them candy and goodies, fixing up the schools. And here is where Jim Hake and Spirit of America stepped in. Jim contacted the colonel by email: what can we help you with? The reply: we need two thousand soccer jerseys. And they need to be red-white-and-blue. (He asked for those colors specifically because the Iraqis kept asking for US flags. And pictures of President Bush.) Jim got them eight hundred. The Iraqis got a mostly- functional province. And Lt. Col. Couvillon brought all 935 sailors and Marines safely home with him.
Following the release of Asif Zardari and the heating up of the political situation, two offices belonging to the Jamaat I Islami and the Sunni Tehreek were set on fire by unidentified men in the run up to the deadline given by the MMA to President General Pervez Musharraf to shed his uniform before December 31, 2004.
"Hurrah! Zardari's sprung! Let's burn down Qazi's house!"
While Mr Zardari's release and his visit to rural Sindh has instilled new vigour to the demoralized workers of the PPP-P, it is the uniform issue which is set to provoke political tension between General Musharraf's allies on one side and the MMA plus the main opposition Alliance for Restoration of Democracy (ARD)...The crucial phase, say pundits, will come after December 19, when MMA will hold its last public meeting in Liaquat Bagh, Rawalpindi, and announce plans for street agitation which are expected to include more riots public rallies, street demonstrations and wheel jam strikes. It is not beyond the realm of the improbable that mass resignations from the national assembly could be followed by dissolution of the NWFP provincial assembly (which is controlled by the MMA) and the MMA's withdrawal of support to the Baluchistan government, the whole protest movement culminating in a noisy and agitated Long March to Islamabad.
... chanting the while "Only the MMA can bring stability to Pakland!"
In this context, it may be worthwhile to note the real strength of the MMA to determine whether or not it will be able to sustain the protest movement for any significant period of time. The MMA's main strength rests on the organizing ability of the Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) and the mass bass of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI-F) in the two border provinces. The JUI (F) lays claim to tens of thousands of madrassa students. But given the failure of the MMA to field a strong protest movement after the US bombing of Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002, and given its past record of never taking on the military in Pakistan, it is anybody's guess whether the JUI will fully commit its madrassa troops against General Musharraf...
Speaking on the eve of the 10-year anniversary of the Russian army advance into Chechnya, a top adviser to Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that Moscow has few options left for a negotiated end to the violence.
"Nope, nope, can't do it no more, nope."
Aslambek Aslakhanov said a decade of war with Russia and internecine fighting among Chechen clans has stripped rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov, the republic's former president, of any real power. Speaking at Columbia University, Aslakhanov said Russia should focus on talks with lower-level rebel commanders who have not participated in terrorist acts. ``Maskhadov is just a banner'' the rebel groups rally around, he said. ``Without him, they are only a group of bandits, but he's weak as a president.''
But they'll still try to whack him.
His comments reflect official Kremlin policy of refusing negotiations with Maskhadov since the war in Chechnya flared for a second time in 1999, after a period of de facto independence after the first war. Moscow should focus instead on reconstruction and creating jobs in the devastated region, Aslakhanov said. Aslakhanov, on a weeklong trip to Great Britain and the United States to meet with anti-terrorism officials, said both countries have offered assistance in tracing foreign assistance provided to the Muslim insurgency in Chechnya, chiefly from Middle Eastern countries. The United States is assisting Russian authorities in determining the identity of three hostage-takers suspected of being from the Middle East, Khailov said. The two countries' intelligence agencies are exchanging ``operational data'' on the men, who were killed in the fighting that ended the siege, he said. The 9/11 Commission has offered assistance in probing the three-day Beslan ordeal, which ended with explosions and gunfire and left more than 338 people dead, more than half of them children. Aslakhanov, a former member of the Russian parliament from Chechnya who is considered the Kremlin's moderate voice on the war, was scheduled to meet Friday with commission members in Washington.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/10/2004
1:21:35 AM ||
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Oh boy! Friday's Urdu McNuggets, and right on time!
I like mine with sweet'n'sour sauce and a side of dhinga-mushti.
Mufti Jameel killed by agencies?
Quoted by Nawa-e-Waqt, Jamaat Islami chief Qazi Hussain Ahmad visited the Banuri Masjid complex in Karachi and accused the government of killing two clerical leaders of the mosque, Mufti Shamzai and Mufti Jameel. He said the government had done nothing to catch the murderers of Mufti Shamzai after it had been given information about the murderers. He said the killing was curious because when Shamzai was killed the police had disappeared from the scene to clear the way for killers. He said Mufti Jameel was killed even though he had kept his arrival in Karachi secret, arriving one day earlier than the known schedule, but even then he was killed on the basis of inside information.
What is 'etekaaf'?
According to Dr Abdul Rauf in Khabrain, etekaaf [divine trance] is a constant focus on Allah for a period of time not less than one night and one day continuously; but it could go on for days. The idiom is etekaaf par bethna. It has to be done in a mosque where collective prayer is offered. Etekaaf is not obligatory but is sunnat or practice of the Prophet PBUH. It is compulsory to fast while in etekaaf which can be done in Ramazan or in any month. During this divine trance all namaz prayers are to be offered interspersed with readings of the Quran and its exegesis. It is however very important not to be distracted. The obligation of tatti-peshab (urination and defecation) has to be gone through quickly some place near the mosque and care should be taken to get it over with in one minute. Similarly, it is forbidden to indulge in jama (fornication) during etekaaf. It is also forbidden to go to the doctor for long diagnosis because it breaks the concentration. It is better to call the doctor to the place of etekaaf. To be silent and not to read or recite anything destroys etekaaf and is a sin.
Judges in 'divine trance'
According to Jang, two judges of the Lahore High court had sat in divine trance (etekaaf par baith gayay) which meant they would not be available for work for a number of days. The paper also reported that a cleric doing the trance in Shuja Abad was savagely clubbed in the head by someone. A large number of people had requested the government for giving them permission (on payment) to do the trance in Faisal Mosque in Islamabad but the government was scared that they could be attacked by terrorists. According to daily Pakistan 3,000 people had sat on etekaaf in Lahore's Data Darbar mosque.
Killed for refusing 'jama-talashi'
According to Jang, one man was killed and another injured after quarrelling with a committee asking people to allow body search before entering a mosque in Rawalpindi. The two young men became angry that they were being asked to submit to body search (jama-talashi) because they were fasting and were in sacred rage. After the quarrel a fight ensued in which one man was killed.
America will be destroyed!
Sarerahe quoted ex-ISI chief General Hameed Gul in Nawa-e-Waqt as saying that the victory of George Bush would destroy the United States because Bush had divided the nation. He said the American nation was now fragmented and had lost its ability to make important decisions.
Quran insulted, hospital burned
According to Jang people of Dalbandin found that pages of the Quran were scattered in a jungle. They became greatly incensed and came to the conclusion that a local NGO must have done the evil deed on orders from America. Three thousand citizens gathered and went to the nearest hospital run by the said NGO. They burned the hospital down, destroyed all the machinery and as their last sacred act stole the surgical instruments. The levees were called in but the incensed crowd threw stones at them too. According to daily Pakistan the incident took place near Chaghai where Pakistan tested its nuclear device in 1998. The ulema in divine rage said that the Quran was insulted as a result of a conspiracy of the Jews who were running the NGOs. They said that if any representative of the UN came to the area they would shoot him full of bullets. Dalbandin is where the Arab princes shoot bustard.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
12/10/2004
12:08:45 AM ||
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#1
Divine rage. You gotta love the nuggets.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/10/2004 0:19
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#2
yes-yes-they don't need surgical instruments as they do genital mutalation with jagged pieces of dirty glass--works fo them
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
12/10/2004 2:30
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#3
That etekaaf thingy is pretty weird. The shit in a minute rule has to be the toughest. They don't say if someone whips out a stopwatch or anything, but still...
#7
According to Jang, two judges of the Lahore High court had sat in divine trance (etekaaf par baith gayay) which meant they would not be available for work for a number of days. The paper also reported that a cleric doing the trance in Shuja Abad was savagely clubbed in the head by someone.
Some good news, finally.
According to Jang people of Dalbandin found that pages of the Quran were scattered in a jungle. They became greatly incensed and came to the conclusion that a local NGO must have done the evil deed on orders from America. Three thousand citizens gathered and went to the nearest hospital run by the said NGO. They burned the hospital down, destroyed all the machinery and as their last sacred act stole the surgical instruments. The levees were called in but the incensed crowd threw stones at them too. According to daily Pakistan the incident took place near Chaghai where Pakistan tested its nuclear device in 1998. The ulema in divine rage said that the Quran was insulted as a result of a conspiracy of the Jews who were running the NGOs. They said that if any representative of the UN came to the area they would shoot him full of bullets. Dalbandin is where the Arab princes shoot bustard.
In which case, they'd be shooting a b*st*rd.
According to Jang, one man was killed and another injured after quarrelling with a committee asking people to allow body search before entering a mosque in Rawalpindi. The two young men became angry that they were being asked to submit to body search (jama-talashi) because they were fasting and were in sacred rage. After the quarrel a fight ensued in which one man was killed.
#8
It's nuggets like these that make me want to nuke the whole lot.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 9:22
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#9
Sacred Rage
That one is a keeper! ROTFLMAO! And at 6AM local time.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
12/10/2004 10:04
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#10
I'm somewhat ashamed of thinking that a Paki nuclear exchange with India might be an evolutionary plus. Whatta bunch of ignorant assholes. Burned down the hospital over finding some trash in the jungle? F*&k em
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 10:21
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#11
because they were fasting and were in sacred rage. After the quarrel a fight ensued in which one man was killed.
"Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:
And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. "
#14
...etekaaf [divine trance] is a constant focus on Allah for a period of time not less than one night and one day continuously; but it could go on for days.
Etekaaf, huh? Gee, kinda sounds like stupor to me.
#15
Lh - Sheesh. No shit? Great - I got it on the first go, whaddya know. Thanks for your contribution, though it's not your thread and your point is not original. Call me after you get the rash / panties in fucking bunch PEST thingy cleared up and the sense of humor transplant. I'll help you test it out. But yeah, thanks. Thank you so much. Thank you. It's humbling to be acknowledged. Thanks. Again. Thank you.
#16
which point is not original? that fasting should be done in a spirit that makes us better, but can lead to contention and violence? No, its not original, it was made 2500 years ago by this dude named Yashayah (what Isaiahs name really was) and so it seemed natural to post it about these Pakis with "issues". Sorry if i said something wrong. And sorry if my lack of appreciation for biblical bathroom jokes shows my lack of a sense of humor. I must be a good 'red stater' after all. (no move to Canada for me :) )
Professor Zhao Huji, a North Korea specialist at the Central Party School in Beijing, said Thursday that North Korean generals and high-ranking officials are deserting the crisis-plagued state as a mirror of growing instability and its leader's waning authority. "These high-ranking defectors aren't leaving because of material want, but because these feel chaos within the Kim Jong-il regime... High-ranking administrators like military officials have visited China several times and are well connected there, and because they have money, they have many chances to defect to China," said Zhao.
North Korea experts calculate that 130 North Korean generals have defected to China, some of whom may have entered the Chinese military, as reported in a recent edition of the International Herald Tribune. However opinion is divided, with other specialists arguing that the removal of Kim Jong-il's portraits from public buildings in Pyongyang and the continuing exodus of defectors does not signify a loosening grip on power by the North Korean leader. Peking University professor Cui Yingjiu, who studied with Kim Jong-il at Kim Il-sung University and had until recently kept in contact with the North Korean leader, said, "Kim Jong-il has a stronger grip on power than Mao Zedong in China during the 1960s ... In North Korea, there are no people like Liu Shaoqi or Deng Xiaoping [who challenged Mao] to compromise Kim Jong-il's authority." Cui added that China has less influence over North Korea than is widely believed.
Posted by: tipper ||
12/10/2004
12:07:11 AM ||
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#1
The rats are bailing out. Something is up with the Great leader. He must be running low on julce and the army first policy must be failing.
#2
When was he last seen? Those rumors of his portaits disappearing made me think that mebbe he's feeding a mushroom farm in a cave, and this "chaos" are the Diadochi wannabes going at it.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
12/10/2004 9:28
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#3
I think he's prob'ly just whacked out on white slag, mourning the demise of his favorite concubine. The question is, what's gonna happen when he sobers up?
Posted by: Fred ||
12/10/2004 10:27
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#4
I don't mind this guy dying soon...and painfully. I just hope they sneak up on him to do it, since his natural predilection will be to take as many people with him as he can!
#5
Cui seems to be well-connected ... Could this be Chinese disinformation? By claiming China has little influence over North Korea, they deflect blame for the failure of the six-nation talks. And by claiming leadership defections, they encourage U.S. inaction in the hope that North Korea may change on its own.
#6
It's the South Park creators' curse, striking again!
(Don't believe me.....watch "South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut"....tell me what former dictator was one of the "stars" in that little opus.)
#7
130 generals would be a significant %. Unless the total includes retirees,I'm sceptical. Not to mention,you'd think at least 1-2 would want to talk to press.
Posted by: Stephen ||
12/10/2004 17:56
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Hat tip LGF
Liberal powerhouse MoveOn has a message for the "professional election losers" who run the Democratic Party: "We stole bought it, we own it, we're going to take it back." A scathing e-mail from the head of MoveOn's political action committee to the group's supporters on Thursday targets outgoing Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe as a tool of corporate donors who alienated both traditional and progressive Democrats. "For years, the party has been led by elite Washington insiders who are closer to corporate lobbyists than they are to the Democratic base," said the e-mail from MoveOn PAC's Eli Pariser. "But we can't afford four more years of leadership by a consulting class of professional election losers."
Under McAuliffe's leadership, the message said, the party coddled the same corporate donors that fund Republicans to bring in money at the expense of vision and integrity. "In the last year, grass-roots contributors like us gave more than $300 million to the Kerry campaign and the DNC, and proved that the party doesn't need corporate cash to be competitive," the message continued. "Now it's our party: we bought it, we own it, and we're going to take it back."
Pariser urged MoveOn supporters to help support a DNC chair with a bold vision to represent Democrats outside Washington. Democrats will vote at their February meeting in Washington on a successor to McAuliffe. DNC spokesman Jano Cabrera declined to engage in a tit-for-tat with MoveOn, but praised McAuliffe's efforts. "Call me crazy, but I think the fact that for the first time in party history we outraised the Republicans, and did so primarily through grass-roots fund raising is something to be proud of," Cabrera said. Among those vying for the party chairmanship is former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, an early darling of MoveOn's cybernetwork of activists when he ran for the Democratic presidential nomination.
Posted by: Korora ||
12/10/2004
12:04:23 AM ||
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#2
Can't wait till the denunciation posters start going up...Damned wreckers! Capitalist tools all! Long live Howie Dean, Hero of the People's Revolution!
#3
"Call me crazy, but I think the fact that for the first time in party history we outraised the Republicans, and did so primarily through grass-roots fund raising is something to be proud of,"
Sure. And the crack dealer at 135th and Lenox Ave also can raise huge sums in short order. But how did you spend the money, sweetheart, and to what effect?
Let's see: Dean burned and crashed after blazing through $50 million in a matter of weeks. And then during the fall campaign, you bought scores of redundant and utterly pointless ads in the bitterly contested state of... New York. Full pagers in MSM publications targeting... loyal Dem supporters. And all while Rove was out-registering and out-hustling and out-organizing you sh*theads-- and with 1.4 million volunteers.
MoveOn, the dotcom version of a political organization. DreamOn's more like it.
#4
He then went on to say "The rich, especially those who didn't earn their money and don't work are the real Democratic base, especially celebrities who are paid obscene amounts of money for just turning up somewhere. People like (fill in your own names here). These are the intellectual driving force behind the party ....."
#6
A surplus of money was the worst possible thing that could have happened to the Dem organization in this campaign. If they'd had less money and more intelligence, they'd have done as Rove did and developed an organizational model that relied on sober, intelligent, disciplined adults working for free rather than paid union hacks with bullhorns and idiotic kids looking to show they too can waste millions on ads that preached to the choir.
#7
Note to FRED: Ads by Google's not very intelligent, is it?
I mean, advertising on Rantburg for (see right side of this page)"Beat Bush Gear" and "Don't Blame Me I Voted 4 Kerry.com" and Emily's List ?!
#11
I for one welcome the prospect of more Republicans = Hitler ads (this time with "official" Democrat Party label firmly affixed), more calls for US defeat in Iraq, and more demands for the media to be less "conservative" in their coverage.
The 2006 midterms beckon, and MoveOn is ready to tell all those red state rubes just how evil and stupid they are. *eg*
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
12/10/2004 9:24
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"Call me crazy..." No problem!
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 9:30
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pass some of that popcorn, Gromky?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 9:57
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"Well, I for one welcome our new moonbat overlords."
#16
"Yeah! We lost by a very close margin this time....let's see if we can lose by a landslide in 2006!"
Grass-roots contributors = George Soros and that Progressive Insurance guy.
Must be the new math.
#17
Mr. Soros paid good money for you, so assume the yoke of your indentured servitude like a good little moonbat now.
Posted by: Mike ||
12/10/2004 11:52
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In 1997, arch-lefty Thomas Frank bit the hand that fed the American Left when he published his remarkable expose of the commercial media culture, The Conquest of Cool. This remains a landmark of cultural history and the best exposition yet of the real nature of the dominant media culture.
Tom was still in his 20s at the time and his attack on this particular form of corporate dominance may have been just a fit of youthful idealism, but this could also be part of a larger pattern of gradual self-destruction on the Left.
Move-On's attack on its own power-base, corporate donations, would fit the same pattern; the fantasy ideology directed against itself by people too arrogant and too deluded to avoid being taken in by their own propaganda.
It is fatal hubris.
To accentuate the positive, since MorOn says that it can control something it paid for, does that mean they support people who want to develop the land they paid for?
Thanks for the popcorn, gromky. Next batch is on me. ;-D
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/10/2004 15:25
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Emily's list?
You mean Our Emily has been financing the Democratic Party?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/10/2004 18:43
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Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake -- Napoleon.
Moveon, you just keep doing what you are doing... And Mr Soros, keep cutting those big checks and claiming its "grass roots" that finance things for your bought and paid for organization. Keep on fooling yourself - you keep getting the great results like you got this time, especially after you run off the professionals in the party that can run a campagin, leving you with demagogues and dimwits like Oliver "What-chu-talkin-bout" Willis.
Posted by: Darth VAda ||
12/10/2004 23:31
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#24
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake -- Napoleon.
Moveon, you just keep doing what you are doing... And Mr Soros, keep cutting those big checks and claiming its "grass roots" that finance things for your bought and paid for organization. Keep on fooling yourself - you keep getting the great results like you got this time, especially after you run off the professionals in the party that can run a campagin, leving you with demagogues and dimwits like Oliver "What-chu-talkin-bout" Willis.
#25
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake -- Napoleon.
Moveon, you just keep doing what you are doing... And Mr Soros, keep cutting those big checks and claiming its "grass roots" that finance things for your bought and paid for organization. Keep on fooling yourself - you keep getting the great results like you got this time, especially after you run off the professionals in the party that can run a campagin, leving you with demagogues and dimwits like Oliver "What-chu-talkin-bout" Willis.
Maoists rebels set off a powerful bomb in the Nepali capital on Thursday, causing no casualties but leaving a large part of a government building in ruins, police said. The explosion came a week after two blasts in Kathmandu blamed on Maoist rebels fighting to topple the impoverished kingdom's constitutional monarchy. No one was hurt in those blasts either. At Thursday's bomb site, damaged computer monitors, broken chairs and cupboards were visible amid the rubble, after the central portions of the first and second storeys of the building collapsed. The building houses the offices of the state-run Agricultural Inputs Company.
Police said two young men entered the building compound before office hours, pretended to overpower overpowered their inside man posing as the guard using a pistol and planted the bomb. The men told the guard they were Maoists before ordering him to flee. "After the blast, the ground trembled like an earthquake. I was stunned and was shivering. I couldn't think any more," Ram Raja Khatri, the accomplice guard who had been overpowered, told Reuters. Broken bricks, steel rods and papers were strewn around the building compound. Dozens of window panes in nearby houses and buildings had shattered. "I feel like crying seeing the damage to the building," said 40-year-old Ram Hari Subedi, a computer operator who has worked for the company for 20 years.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/10/2004
12:04:09 AM ||
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(2004-12-09) -- Howard Dean, the former potential presidential nominee, said today that if he's selected as chairman of the Democrat party, he'll lead "the first genuine effort" to make the DNC a national organization, appealing to voters beyond its historical roots in a few urban areas along the continental coastline.
"During my campaign, I discovered that large sections of the southern and midwestern territories actually had been settled by British and European immigrants and had been divided up into states some years ago," said Mr. Dean. "As chairman of the DNC, I would send expeditions into these regions to learn about the folkways of their inhabitants and to attempt to build peaceful alliances with them."
Mr. Dean said many Democrats would be surprised to learn that the natives in the so-called "red states" are primarily Republicans, not Indians.
"Perhaps it's fantasy to suggest that we can bring our intellectual, flexible Democrat ideology to this primitive, dogmatic alien culture," he said. "But it's no more unlikely than my presidential campaign, and if we use the right words -- you know, small ones -- we just might win."
Posted by: Korora ||
12/10/2004
12:02:02 AM ||
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#1
We're going to Iowa! And Nebraska! And Kansas! And Indiana! And then... you know what? We're going to Idaho and take it back from the Russets.
I think it would be better for everyone if Dan Darling was one of the interrogators.
The United Nations nuclear watchdog has agreed terms with Pakistan for putting questions to Abdul Qadeer Khan, the disgraced Pakistani scientist who ran a nuclear black market, the Financial Times said on Friday. Khan, once revered as the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb, has been under house arrest since he was identified early this year at the centre of a scandal involving transfers of weapons technology to Libya, Iran and North Korea. The UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is keen to untangle the web of proliferation that Khan oversaw, but Pakistan has previously restricted access to him. But IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei said his agency had agreed "modalities" with Pakistan that would allow it to ask Khan for information, according to the FT. "It's important for us to know who else got equipment and whether there are undeclared programmes," ElBaradei was quoted as saying. "It's a complicated issue," he added. "There are legal impediments so we have to work through governments involved, and governments have been quite cooperative."
"Plots within plots! Deep-laid plots! Nefarious, deep-laid plots!"
He said the IAEA was also in talks with Malaysia over access to Khan's associate Bukhary Syed Abu Tahir who is currently held there. Â
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/10/2004
12:00:22 AM ||
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#1
Elbaradei is unfairly using his UN-supplied VIP Backstage Pass. He should wait in line like everyone else to get Kahn's autograph.
#2
quick work--a.q. was only exposed like six months ago--i'm also sure he'll answer all questions truthfully--like how he stole the original pak bomb designs from the dutch company he worked for--someone cut his aorta already
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI ||
12/10/2004 2:36
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Elbaradei: AQK have you stolen the bomb designs
and sold them to the highest bidder ??? Now be good and tell the truth !
AQK : No, No, Muhamad, I swear by Allan and by my honour I didnt do any of this, you must believe me
after all We are fellow muslims !
ElBaradei : I believe you brother, allah-hu Akbar, Allah hu Akbar. See, He didnt do it !!
He swore by his honour !!
Posted by: Elder of Zion ||
12/10/2004 5:44
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A.Q. was a centrifuge expert, not a bomb expert as such. Certainly his Dutch employers were into centrifuges. As I recall, the bomb plans came off-the-shelf from elsewhere. His expertise in this regard would be more in the photocopying line.
From the Dec 9th issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, labeled 'free full text' on the page for the current issue. Tables, figures and references excluded.
This is a 2nd article of combat medical photographs from the same issue of the Journal.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/10/2004
12:00:00 AM ||
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#1
Hats off to the Armed Forces medical teams. They are doing an incredible job under tough conditions. One concern is the mentioned shortage of personnel. I thought the US government subsidized the education of many doctors via grants for Reserve, inner city or rural service. Where are they? Also it seems like a good idea to rotate civilian trauma personnel through military units for 6 months or so, both to increase care levels and doctor training.
Posted by: ed ||
12/10/2004 6:39
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Having been a National Health Service corps recipient, I tried to get transferred to the Navy or Airforce to serve my commitment. The bureaucrats in Washington would not share their booty, so to speak. I'm in JAX, and for years the knowledge flow has gone the other direction; we train military medical personnel at our local Knife and Gun Club (U-F Medical Center) so they could see some real trauma. I'm too old for that now, but still give free flight physicals to military and police pilots who's tail stands between bullets and me.
Posted by: Kevin H MD ||
12/10/2004 8:35
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Shands Kevin? Or does UF have a facility in Jacksonville?
#4
Ed, hasn't been true for quite a while -- last time they funded a lot of docs' training was in the '80's, as I recall. I think they still have some sort of financial program for nurses. Kevin is right about the NHS: my understanding is that the NHS wanted to train docs for underserved areas, not the military.
The armed forces do advertise heavily in medical journals, but that generally is aimed at residents, fellows (advanced trainees) or physicians who have already completed training and are looking to make a change.
I posted this article for a couple of reasons: 1) the organization of medical care is very interesting and likely different than many of the vets here remember from their time in service, 2) I'm pleased that the NEJM would put forward a positive, careful description of military medical care.
Disclaimer: the editor of the NEJM and I are friends; he's a great physician-scientist and a great guy.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/10/2004 9:01
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Thanks for this posting, Steve. Very informative. FTR, I've been trying to work with Walter Reed Army Medical Center here in DC to volunteer some time with the soldiers recuperating there. Not having much luck, yet. The volunteer services are apparently run by the American Red Cross. The person I spoke with said I would need orientation, which they won't offer again until February. "Fine," I said, "Put me on the list." "We don't have a list," he said, "you just show up." Aargh.
SEATTLE -- In a victory for rebellious teenagers, the state Supreme Court has ruled that a mother violated Washington's privacy act by eavesdropping on her daughter's phone conversation.
Privacy advocates hailed Thursday's ruling.
Fomented by the "aroused" ACLU
The mother, however, was unrepentant.
"It's ridiculous! Kids have more rights than parents these days," said mom Carmen Dixon, 47, of Friday Harbor. "My daughter was out of control, and that was the only way I could get information and keep track of her. I did it all the time."
The Supreme Court ruled that Dixon's testimony against a friend of her daughter should not have been admitted in court because it was based on the intercepted conversation. The justices unanimously ordered a new trial for Oliver Christensen, who had been convicted of second-degree robbery in part due to Dixon's testimony.
Can Supreme Court Judges be recalled in Washington State. Can they put a "Chilling Effect" on leftist moonbat judges?
The case started with a purse-snatching that shocked the island town of Friday Harbor, population 2,000. On Oct. 24, 2000, two young men knocked down an elderly woman, breaking her glasses, and stole her purse. Christensen, then 17, was a suspect.
San Juan County Sheriff Bill Cumming asked Dixon, whose daughter was friends with Christensen, to be alert for any possible evidence. When Christensen called the Dixon house later, Lacey Dixon, then 14, took the cordless phone into her bedroom and shut the door. Carmen Dixon hit the "speakerphone" button on the phone base and took notes on the conversation - in which Christensen said he knew where the purloined purse was.
The ruling will likely not result in parents being prosecuted for snooping, Cumming said. But it prohibits courts and law enforcement from using the fruits of such snooping.
Of course, these nitwit so-called jurists don't realize that this may result in citizens quietly taking the law into their own hands. A bad direction for the country. But these dodos obviously the live in their own little tofu soaked worlds untouched by American culture as a whole.
Federal wiretap law has been interpreted to allow parents to record their child's conversations. But Washington privacy law is stricter. Washington is one of 11 states that requires consent from all parties involved before a conversation may be intercepted or recorded.
"The Washington statute ... tips the balance in favor of individual privacy at the expense of law enforcement's ability to gather evidence without a warrant," Justice Tom Chambers wrote in the unanimous opinion.
That right to individual privacy holds fast even when the individuals are teenagers, the court ruled.
"I don't think the state should be in the position of encouraging parents to act surreptitiously and eavesdrop on their children," agreed attorney Douglas Klunder, who filed a brief supporting Christensen on behalf of the American Civil Liberties Union.
Like Savage says (sometimes he goes too far, but on this I agree) prosecute members of the ACLU under the RICO statues. They ARE a form of organized crime.
He noted that parents can find other ways to control their teenagers: "They can restrict the use of the telephone, for example."
As Zell Miller says, "With spitballs?"
In an unrelated case, Carmen Dixon recently pleaded guilty to misappropriating $129,000 from the Postal Service when she was postmaster of Friday Harbor. She admitted in U.S. District Court that she issued money orders to herself and her family from bulk mailing fees and took money from stamp sales. The money was diverted between January 2002 and last May.
And so the mama is a crook too? No wonder the daughter hangs out with purse-snatchers. And because of her reputation, parents in Washington have their hands tied. THANKS A BUNCH EMBEZELLER.
Dixon faces a maximum 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine when she is sentenced April 1.
Lacey Dixon, now 18, graduated from high school and is attending a massage therapy school, her mother proudly reported.
Masseuse? ... Amber Frye ... Scott Petersen ... Uh-huh. It is so eerie that the daughter is named Lacey...
Christensen's whereabouts are unknown, although Sheriff Cumming thought he might be in Alaska.
Hmmm - Ol' Christensen better behave himself. Alaska's Supremes aren't so likely to find an ACLUan technicality. The state pen is probably cold, and north of the arctic circle. NOW THAT IS CHILLING IS'NT IT ACLU?
Dixon has a 15-year-old son still at home, whose phone conversations she sometimes secretly monitors. She said she'll have to stop that now.
Besides you can't monitor from jail can you?
"If it's illegal, I won't do it," she sighed.
So is embezzling money orders from the Post Office, idiot!
The case is State of Washington v. Oliver Christensen, No. 74839-0.
Posted by: BigEd ||
12/10/2004
11:55:10 AM ||
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One of the many wondrous peoples that poured forth from the rich imagination of the late J. R. R. Tolkien were the Ents. These tree-like creatures, agonizingly slow and covered with mossy bark, nursed themselves on tales of past glory while their numbers dwindled in their isolation. Unable to reproduce themselves or to fathom the evil outside their peaceful forest — and careful to keep to themselves and avoid reacting to provocation of the tree-cutters and forest burners — they assumed they would be given a pass from the upheavals of Middle Earth. But with the sudden arrival of two volatile hobbits, the nearby evils of timber-cutting, industrial devilry, and mass murder became too much for the Ents to stomach. They finally "wake up" (literally). Then they go on the offensive — and are amazed at the power they still wield in destroying Saruman's empire.
For Tolkien, who wrote in a post-imperial Britain bled white from stopping Prussian militarism and Hitler's Nazism, only to then witness the rise of the more numerous, wealthier, and crasser Americans, such specters were haunting. Indeed, there are variants of the Ent theme throughout Tolkien's novels, from the dormant Riders of Rohan — whose king was exorcised from his dotage and rallied the realm's dwindling cavalry to recover lost glory and save the West — to the hobbits themselves. The latter, protected by slurred "Rangers," live blissfully unaware that radical changes in the world have brought evil incarnate to their very doorstep. Then to their amazement they discover that of all people, a hobbit rises to the occasion, and really does stand up well when confronted with apparently far more powerful and evil adversaries. The entire novel is full of such folk — the oath-breaking Dead who come alive to honor their once-broken pact, or the now-fallen and impotent High Elves who nevertheless do their part in the inevitable war to come.
Tolkien always denied an allegorical motif or any allusions to the contemporary dangers of appeasement or the leveling effects of modernism. And scholars bicker over whether he was lamenting the end of the old England, old Europe, or the old West — in the face of the American democratic colossus, the Soviet Union's tentacles, or the un-chivalrous age of the bomb. But the notion of decline, past glory, and 11th-hour reawakening are nevertheless everywhere in the English philologist's Lord of the Rings. Was he on to something? More specifically, does the Ents analogy work for present-day Europe?
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: ed ||
12/10/2004
11:44 ||
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#1
Before you laugh at the silly comparison, remember that the Western military tradition is European. Today the continent is unarmed and weak, but deep within its collective mind and spirit still reside the ability to field technologically sophisticated and highly disciplined forces â if it were ever to really feel threatened. One murder began to arouse the Dutch; what would 3,000 dead and a toppled Eiffel Tower do to the French? Or how would the Italians take to a plane stuck into the dome of St. Peter?
This is an excellent point! It's as if it's all happening in slow motion. Western Civilization doesn't just stop and turn around on a dime ...it's like a thundering herd that runs together. But 9/11 and other events have caused the herd to slow, to looking around. Woe to our enemies when, as a group, we turn to face them.
Lord of the Rings was essentially complete by 1945. And as Tolkien himself has stated, the plot was largely established beyond change by 1939. So unless he was a prophet, it was NOT about post war American dominance, the USSR, or the Atom bomb.
Youd think a classicist would be more careful about drawing conclusions from texts.
#5
Liberalhawk, what makes you think the decline of England and Europe -- and a sense of doom and larger decline - only started after WWII? Tolkien himself talked a lot about the massive loss of life among his friends during WWI and certainly trench and chemical warfare experienced by Tolkien's generation had a huge impact on western Europe's sense of pride and view of the future.
Moreover, US technological leadership was emerging well before WWII as well. Consider the impact on England of the steamboat, the telegraph and telephone, all (except the telephone) invented in the 19th century and all American inventions. And while a Brit did invent an incandescent lightbulb, Edison's was the one that took the market by storm, changing the character of village life as they switched from gaslight to the brighter electrical ones. Moreover, it was the Americans who introduced 19th century business changes like mail order catalogues, which also impacted rural life in Britain over time.
#7
Seriously, what rkb said. Britain's decline and the rising US's energy and soon-to-be established hegemony were a sub-theme of post-WWI English and (in Yeats' case) literature. Forster, Ford Madox Ford, Waugh, Maugham: everyone with experience beyond Europe recognized that the amazing productivity and extraordinary growth of the US, combined with Britain's rapid decline (they lost ~10% of their male population, and a much higher % of their aristocratic class, in WWI), meant that by the 1930s the best hope for protecting Britain's interests had passed to the yanks. Waugh hated the very thought of this; Forster was optimistic; Maugham and others were resigned to it.
#8
There will be no Spartan awakening or thundering herd to the rescue. In two of the countries mentioned the battle is already lost. In the Netherlands, the majority of babies born in the cities are Muslim. In France, already 1/3 of all babies born are Muslim. In 10 years, 1/2 of all babies will be Muslim. The situation is probably worse in Belgium. All they have to do is sit tight and collect benefits for the next 30 years and the Muslims will own the core of western Europe.
Posted by: ed ||
12/10/2004 14:26
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Liberalhawk,
VDH wrote "scholars bicker" over bomb,etc,VDH did not say HE was interpretating texts that way. As to American power and fear of Soviet Union,they were very real to Englishmen in the post-WW I era. Soviet Russia was evil to a great many Englishmen who had faith in "traditional English values".Post-war Great Britain refused-for first time to-engage in naval arms race w/US,because Britain knew it would lose. Further,new research believes Tolkien was heavily influenced by First World War,which did not end til major US intervention.
Posted by: Stephen ||
12/10/2004 14:29
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#10
There will be no Spartan awakening or thundering herd to the rescue
Agree re overall numbers ("herd") but not sure we will not see the rise of a few brave and clearsighted Spartans. Look at how quickly ordinary Dutchmen and women have turned around. The elites are clueless, but you have large and spontaneous demands for toughness and an end to PC idiocy. I would bet there are many more Fortuyns, Fabrizio Quattrocchis and Oriana Fallacis in Old Europe than we suppose.
#11
in the face of the American democratic colossus, the Soviet Union's tentacles, or the un-chivalrous age of the bomb
Couldnt have looked forward to the age of the bomb. It wasnt even clear one could be built in 1939. Probably didnt like the USSRs tentacles, but far from clear how long theyd be in 1939. And yes, the US WAS a rising economic and cultural colossus pre-39 - which is why I said POSTWAR american dominance - the prewar phenomenon was quite different.
In any case I think its pretty clear Tolkien was bemoaning the loss of a general pre-industrial world - he would have mourned the loss of inns and small farms in New England as much in his own old England. He certainly had a POLITICAL sense of people avoiding dark threats - I think thats as much the impending threat of fascism, as the threat of Communism, and certainly is NOT the threat from the US - CS Lewis, one of Tolkiens closest friends, had an American wife, IIRC.
Im not challenging VDHs awareness of history, but his detailed knowledge of Tolkien lore. From the quote above, it sounds like VDH thinks LOTR was written post 1946. Post-Imperial Britain? When Tolkien was writing LOTR, the Union Jack flew over India (including Pakistan, Bangladesh, ) over much of the Middle East, and over half of Africa. Depending on WHICH chapter of LOTR youre talking about, they had lost Burma,Malaya, Singapore and Hong Kong to the Japanese, and very small parts of Egypt to the Germans/Italians. All of which they were fighting very hard to get back. Post-Imperial my foot.
#13
Actually, lex, I think he already has. There's been a noticeable shift in tone since Nov 2nd. IMHO. Not good, that, I miss the "meet you in the middle" Lh.
:-/
#14
When Tolkien was writing LOTR, the Union Jack flew over India (including Pakistan, Bangladesh, ) over much of the Middle East, and over half of Africa ... they had lost Burma,Malaya, Singapore and Hong Kong to the Japanese, and very small parts of Egypt to the Germans/Italians. All of which they were fighting very hard to get back. Post-Imperial my foot
Well, Churchill and others realized by the end of WWI that the Empire was gone. And the lousy state of the British military in the early and mid 1930s -- which Churchill deplored -- suggests someone wasn't interested in conquest / keeping overseas territory.
Lewis didn't meet Mrs. Joy Davidson Gresham until 1952 and didn't marry her until after her divorce and the visa issue arose in 1956. Red herring.
Posted by: too true ||
12/10/2004 15:14
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#15
Lex - Im pretty mild compared to SOME Tolkien geeks :).
Dot com - since Nov 2, criticising Bush doesnt mean backing Kerry. Theres no more fear that a criticism of Bush could mean Bush losing. Now Bush has won, and doing right is HIS responsibility. And I feel freer to call on him to do right, and point out when hes doing wrong. Im still prepared to meet in the middle, and I would suggest that there are few partisan dems who would be comfortable with what ive posted here SINCE Nov 2. But if "meet in the middle" means that you think of me as a moderate Republican, who likes Bush but doesnt like Anne Coulter, youve got me wrong.
Too true - good factual point on Lewis, but my point was that Tolkien wasnt hanging with an antiAmerican crowd. Churchill pointed out UK military weakness wrt another great power war - they had more than enough to keep order in the empire. And I dont think Churchill recognized the empire was gone, hell we went into the political wilderness in large part because of his uncompromising stand on India, IIUC.
In any case, even if it was clear that the empire was doomed, Britain was NOT post Imperial, in the normal meaning of that term, before 1946. Really. We might as well refer to post Soviet Russia, starting in, say, 1973, since foresighted by then already realized the USSR could not survive. But thats not how we use words in English. Its clear that VDH doesnt have the foggiest when Tolkien wrote LOTR. Dismiss this as fanboy geekery if you wish, but VDH is basing the whole column on this.
#16
Lol - now that's Lh, heh. Okay, bro, you're the honorable opposition & resident gadfly, lol! I salute you and look forward to future engagements. May you lose your ass as gracefully as you just handed me mine, heh. ;-)
#19
"Russian tentacles" were pretty obvious in 1939. Beyond all Soviet rhetoric about communism conquering the world,there were the actions of Soviet Union itself. Contributed heavily to one side in Spanish Civil War. Fought and won a pretty serious border war w/Japan in 1939. Attacked Finland,and in height of idiocy,British political leaders suggested entering war w/Finland AGAINST Soviet Russia,mostly to grab Swedish ore,but also because West Europe public opinion was for Finns. Also proposals to bomb Russian oil fields to keep Russia from supplying Hitler. The Baltic countries were gobbled up by Soviet Union as result of pact w/Hitler. Finally,after Britain went to war w/Germany over Poland,the Russians also invaded Poland. We'll just ignore the great PR from the purges,the murder of Trotsky,the collectivization of the farms,etc.
Posted by: Stephen ||
12/10/2004 17:43
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#20
Tiger is obviously exploited by the violence inherent in the system, Shipman
#21
Milne was listening to the inner deep rage of the brilliant everyman Eeeeyore fighting the establishment intellectual Owl, all the while constrainted by the Union Thug activities of rabbit and his assorted friends and relatives.
The transformation of EDWARD BEAR into POOH was part and parcel of the DIALECTIC by CR and CRs quest for One Wood Government OWG and the alliance of the HONEY industry with the HAYCORN---VIS A VIS YOUNG OAK lobby. The HUFFALUMP is the creature that CR will use to impose OWG on the YOUTH, SMALL and ROO with their special medicines.
#22
That's an awful lot of CAPS action, Shipman; be careful you're not mistaken for someone else.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
12/10/2004 18:07
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#23
Truth DEMANDS cap action.
And LOTS of IT!
GOD made upper case and bold type faces for a reason and the reason is COMMUNICATION! Think of constant cap lock action like the burning bush. LOL I am nearing hellfire now.... Maybe Heyzues come back has a lowly blower who is crucified BECAUSE OF CONSTANT CAPS. hee hee!
#26
LH: "Couldnt have looked forward to the age of the bomb. It wasnt even clear one could be built in 1939."
Considering that "By the Waters of Babylon" by Stephen Vincent Benet was published in 1937 and the story appears to involve a post new clear a pork a lips, methinx the failure of imagination is yourn alone.
Posted by: Dr August Balls of Nice ||
12/10/2004 18:36
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#27
Well, Britain wasn't post imperial in 1939, or even 45. What had changed (and what churchill lamented in the 30s) was the nature of empire, we had moved from a militaristic slant to a fully commercial one. After all the British empire came about for commercial rather than ideological reasons (which is the new American empire based on i wonder?) for trading slaves and opium primarily, it just evolved. After world war two when holding vast amounts of land around the world became untenable and unrealistic we focused much more on the commonwealth and Sterling Banking area, as that gave us propriatary trade agreements without the need to govern the coutries via military force. I agree that tolkein lamented an end of a simpler time and the march of industrialisation and mechanisation and, as these were certainly given a massive boost by world war one, perhaps there is a grain of truth in the analogy of the article, but i would say you have to squint to see it.
Was the prophet Mohammed a paedophile? The question is sometimes asked because one of his wives, Aisha, was a child when he married her. As Barnaby Rogerson gingerly puts it in his highly sympathetic recent biography (The Prophet Muhammad, Little, Brown): "âŠthe age disparity was considerable: she was only nine while Muhammad was 53". Aisha was taken from her seesaw on the morning of her marriage to be dressed in her wedding garment. After sharing a bowl of milk with the prophet, she went to bed with him.
To me, it seems anachronistic to describe Mohammed as a child-molester. The marriage rules of his age and society were much more tribal and dynastic than our own, and women were treated more as property and less as autonomous beings. Aisha was the daughter of Mohammed's right-hand man, and eventual successor (caliph), Abu Bakr. No doubt he and his family were very proud of the match. I raise the question, though, because it seems to me that people are perfectly entitled - rude and mistaken though they may be - to say that Mohammed was a paedophile, but if David Blunkett gets his way, they may not be able to.
As I write, I am looking at a Christmas brochure for Channel 4. It contains an interview with Paul Abbott, author of the "current hit show, Shameless". Clever Paul swears a lot, and proudly tells a story about how, when his brothers held him upside down to help him steal a Christmas tree from his Yugoslav next door neighbour, he was so frightened that he started urinating. Ha ha. There follows a two-page pictorial spread of Paul's characters, the Gallaghers, having their Christmas lunch. The tableau is presented (sub-Buñuel) as a parody of the Last Supper. (Do Paul Abbott and Channel 4 believe, perhaps, that this took place at Christmas?) The first page shows a line of yobs - mimicking the Apostles - beginning their meal in reasonably good order. The second depicts them towards its end, violent and drunk. The "Jesus" figure is lurching forward, halo awry, beer can in one hand and cigarette in the other.
Continued on Page 49
The Bush administration has expressed confidence in United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan, despite calls for his resignation from several U.S. lawmakers over a scandal involving the U.N.-administered oil-for-food program for Iraq. The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Danforth, said Thursday that President Bush has confidence in Mr. Annan, and dismissed speculation the administration was trying to push the Ghanaian diplomat out. Mr. Danforth also stressed the importance of a U.S. investigation of the oil-for-food program, saying it would be the only way to - in his words - lift the cloud from the United Nations.
Before you all get bent out of shape, think of this as the same "Vote of Confidence" baseball coaches with a losing record get before the owners plunge in the knife. Besides, the longer Koffi stays in, the worse the UN looks. I think this is another move by the Grand Master of "Texas Hold'um".
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
10:40:47 AM ||
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#1
Well yeah, I have confidence in Kofi too. Confidence that he's absolutely corrupt, and an absolutely worthless head of an absolutely worthless organization.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 12:04
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#3
I think this is another move by the Grand Master of "Texas Hold'um".
Yep. Can't be seen to be overtly fighting Kofi ... "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" is the Texas way nonetheless.
Posted by: too true ||
12/10/2004 12:07
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#4
I think this is another move by the Grand Master of "Texas Hold'um"
I think you're wrong. IMO, this is more of quid pro quo - "you handle the Iraq elections and I keep the House/Senate attack dogs on a short leash and then we're both happy men."
#8
I gave up on the U.N., utterly, about a quarter-century ago. I'm perfectly content to let it limp along to its final resting place under the guidance of a corrupt, ineffective leader; better that, than replace him with someone who will create false hopes for REAL reform that isn't going to ever happen in any case.
Seems to me there are three choices for us regarding the U.N.'s circus tent: be on the outside pissing in (emotionally satisfying, but we lose the UNSC veto), on the inside pissing out (against whom?) or on the inside pissing in. The last choice seems best to me. Let the love flow.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
12/10/2004 14:59
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Nearly three quarters of British people believe there are too many immigrants coming into the country, according to an opinion poll published today. A YouGov survey for The Economist suggests that record levels of immigration are now the principal concern of voters, ahead of public services, crime and terrorism. The findings also indicate that groups normally regarded as holding more liberal views, including Londoners and the young, are as ill-disposed to immigrants as the majority. The poll confirms what politicians have been noticing for months - that immigration has returned with a vengeance as a political issue after years of quiescence following the fierce controversies of the late 1960s and 1970s.
Labour has pursued an increasingly "open door" policy, with David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, saying he saw ''no obvious limit'' to the numbers Britain can take. Ministers believe the economy needs overseas workers and they contribute to the overall well-being of the nation. The poll suggests people are happy if the newcomers arrive to work but they draw the line when immigrants get preferential access to public services or benefits. The Economist says: ``The newcomers that grate are those who strain the delicate British sense of fair play: 85 per cent cite either asylum seekers or illegal immigrants as the main reason the country is being overrun.''
An Israeli aircraft has fired a missile near the home of a Palestinian militant leader in the northern Gaza Strip, witnesses said. An Israeli Army spokeswoman confirmed an air strike in the town of Beit Lahiya. She said the target was used to make and store munitions. Local residents said the missile struck a trailer outside the home of Mahmoud Al Madhoun, a senior commander of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades. Several people were lightly hurt from smoke inhalation and flying debris, the witnesses said. The leader of another militant group escaped an air strike in southern Gaza earlier on Thursday.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/10/2004
10:35:33 PM ||
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The federal government has cast doubt on the validity of claims by Australian terrorist suspect David Hicks that he was tortured in American custody. In an affidavit released by his lawyers, Hicks says he was forcibly injected with drugs, beaten for hours while blindfolded and handcuffed and had food withheld by his jailers at the American military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Attorney-General Philip Ruddock said the affidavit appeared to contradict earlier statements by Hicks' lawyers. "It sits a little uncomfortably with some of the earlier statements by Mr Hicks' lawyers that certainly affirmed that while at Guantanamo Bay he'd been humanely treated," Mr Ruddock told reporters. "(The statements also) suggested that while he was at Guantanamo Bay there were no allegations specifically in relation to Mr Hicks other than I think deprivation of his liberty and like matters. "My view is that those matters, when raised, need to be fully investigated and that's why we invited the United States to look at those issues.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/10/2004
10:32:44 PM ||
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"A confidentiality agreement signed with US authorities prevents Terry Hicks and members of David Hicks' legal team from detailing other abuses."
They likely have already breached any agreement they might have had.
I also question that since he has been in Cuba he has ever been were a gun butt could have been used on him. Guns and prisoners are kept apart. Thats SOP. If a firearm is needed it would be a sharp shooter seperated by a fence taking someone out. Guards might have a batton and some kind of chemical spray. Dogs would only be used on a violent prisoner or to break them down by being put near the moose limbs as they "are unclean animials" but a prisoner with his throat ripped out is usless as a source of info. Lots of this "abuse" like with holding extra food and such is used to control asshats who will not get with the prison program. This isn't a fun camp it's a prison. You are expected to act a certain way and live by certain rules. If you don't shit happens. If you get violent or resist pain will be used to get you to comply with instructions. Non of it illegal or "abuse." The only other option is to shoot the stupid bastards. Seeing as they are still breathing that option hasn't been exercised.
Anyone who thinks these assclowns don't know how to exploit any propaganda value they might have is fooling themselves. These clowns are in prison still for a reason after all.
#2
The most despicable people on the planet are the "rights" groups like Amnasty and the MSM hacks who cry wolf with this "he touched me" stuff. It devalues claims of horrific torture and unimaginable suffering. I hope there is a special place in hell for those who use the truly desperate as nothing more than a foil to forward their political agendas. No one is more despicable than they. No one.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/10/2004
10:31:57 PM ||
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This was the case where the person in question (Scrafton) claimed to have discussed 3 separate topics with Howard, including telling him that refugees throwing their children overboard was untrue. Howard continued to say refugees threw children overboard, which is the basis for the misled/lied claim. Phone records subsequently showed the phone call was all of 51 seconds long. Clearly too short a period of time to discuss 3 topics as Scrafton claimed, but he was trapped in his claim and proven to be the liar (but never let it be said the Australian Labour party doesn't know how to flog a dead horse). Aint technology a bitch.
An exodus of native-born Dutch in search of a new life abroad has reversed immigration flows for the first time since the post-war era.
Last year more people left the Netherlands than arrived as migrants or asylum seekers, even though unemployment remains low at 4.7 percent and per capita income is higher than any major country in Europe.
Lawyers, accountants, computer specialist, nurses, and businessmen are lining up for visas to the English-speaking world, looking to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as orderly societies where people have the space to breathe.
The new wave of "middle-class flight" has quickened this year following rising ethnic violence and crime committed by and against immigrants, and in response to fears that social order is breaking down. In the first six months there was a net outflow of 13,313 people.
They are disengaging from a multicultural experiment once hailed as the model for the world but now stretched to breaking point. They are also escaping traffic jams and chronic over-crowding.
Requests for visa information have exploded since the murder of Theo van Gogh, a Dutch film-maker and acerbic critic of Muslim views on women.
An all-party report by the Dutch parliament this year concluded that the country's immigration policy had been a failure, leading to sink schools and ethnic ghettoes.
The Netherlands has been transformed in barely 30 years from a tight-knit Christian society into a polyethnic state, with three million people of immigrant background.
The Netherlands has been transformed in barely 30 years from a tight-knit Christian society into a polyethnic state, with three million people of immigrant background.
Most of whom don't want to assimilate, but rather to destroy the society that has given them shelter and more freedom than their home countries could even dream of.
Congratulations, tranzis and multi-cultis - your evil child has borne its poisonous fruit.
Rot in hell, the lot of you worldwide. I'm sure you're happy now, tranzi destroyer of worlds.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/10/2004 22:58
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#2
This rubbish is so barkingly biased its not worth commenting on, except to raise the point that a net outflow of 13,313 people in a country with a population as large as Holland is hardly a mass exodus. May i also suggest that emigration between states in Europe is, and always has been, high. Its an insult to all thinking people, regardless of political stripe, that someone thought to post it here.
#3
WingedAvenger, you one of them self-anointed "nice people" who likes to strut around in a Che Guevara T-shirt and reflectively raise you fist when the International is played?
Got you in one didn't I?
Not hard really, because only someone living in an Alternative Universe would be so clueless, bordering on idiocy as to be unaware of the critical situation of group antagonism, bordering on civil war, that is currently the result of the failed "multicultural" policies in Holland. Ever heard of Theo Van Gogh? any idea why he was ritually slaughtered as a sacrifice to the moon god?
As for the demographic argument raised, what part of "reversed immigration flows for the first time since the post-war era." don't you understand?
#4
If that many people were leaving the U.S. at the same rate, we'd be losing about 478,000 per year. That would be Denver and a couple of suburbs to be named later. The immigration rate is nearly twice that, and most of the immigrants are Muslim. The reproduction rate is only just able to keep up, and if reports are correct, a larger and larger percentage of that is among the Muslim population.
It's not just the number of people leaving. One must consider who is leaving, and why. If the emigrants were predominately older folks who are sick of tulips and wooden shoes, it's no big deal. But if educated younger couples are leaving because they don't want their daughters raped by Islamofascists who consider every non-burqa-clad female to be a whore....
The Netherlands may be approaching the tipping point.
Posted by: Darth VAda ||
12/11/2004 0:15
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The brother of an Australian terrorist suspect detained in Lebanon has been arrested in Iraq by a Kurdish political organisation. Ahmad Jamal, 22, from Sydney, has been detained by the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) in northern Iraq, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) said today. It was not known when the man was detained, the spokesman said. The Daily Telegraph reports his father has said Ahmad was arrested over confusion with his identification.
"He thought he was supposed to hand over the Syrian papers, but got out his Yemeni library card instead. It's a simple mistake...could happen to anyone, y'know?"
Ahmad Jamal is the brother of Saleh Jamal who was arrested six months ago in Lebanon after skipping bail in Sydney on charges of shooting up the Lakemba police station in 1998.
His business card reads: Have AK, Will Travel."
Lebanese officials claim Saleh Jamal has links to the most wanted terrorist in Iraq, Jordanian Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/10/2004
10:26:39 PM ||
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The Kurds seem to be working on cleaning up their neck of the woods. Reports like this occur on a regular basis.
Former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, President Bush's choice to be homeland security secretary, has withdrawn his name from consideration, the White House announced late Friday. Presidential press secretary Scott McClellan, in a conference call to news organizations, revealed that Kerik had withdrawn "for personal reasons."
"The president respects his decision and wishes the commissioner and his wife, Hala, well," McClellan said in a statement. "Commissioner Kerik is withdrawing his name from director of homeland security," the spokesman said. "He informed the White House this evening that he was withdrawing for personal reasons from consideration to be secretary of homeland security." McClellan said that Kerik telephoned the president at about 8:30 p.m. EST. Kerik also sent a letter to the White House in which he announced his wishes. McClellan said the White House "will move as quickly as we can to name someone else to fill this nomination."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (W.Va.), senior Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, on Thursday backed off complaints that a highly classified and expensive spy program is ''totally unjustified and very, very wasteful and dangerous to the national security.'' On Wednesday, Rockefeller had called the program, tucked inside Congress' new blueprint for U.S. intelligence spending, ''stunningly expensive.'' Rockefeller backed off his remarks that the program itself was dangerous to national security. ''He was referring to the fact that it was a misallocation of funds,'' his spokeswoman Wendy Morigi said.
That means the program isn't putting any money into his district
Rockefeller and three other Democratic senators -- Richard Durbin of Illinois, Carl Levin of Michigan and Ron Wyden of Oregon -- refused to sign the congressional compromise that provides for future U.S. intelligence activities. The compromise noted that the four senators believed the mystery program was unnecessary, its cost unjustified and that ''the funds for this item should be expended on other intelligence programs that will make a surer and greater contribution to national security.'' ''Independent cost estimates have shown that this program will exceed its proposed budgets by enormous amounts of money,'' said Wyden.
And this is different....how?
The Senate voted Wednesday night to send the legislation to President Bush. The rare criticisms of a highly secretive project intrigued outside intelligence experts, who said the program was almost certainly a spy satellite system.
No hard data on what this is, rumor has it that it's over budget, behind schedule, and doesn't perform as promised.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
10:21:16 AM ||
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No hard data on what this is, rumor has it that it's over budget, behind schedule, and doesn't perform as promised
and this is different from other pushing-the-envelope-of-what's-possible programs how?
don't get me wrong - I'm against waste in programs, but I know from experience how hard it is to accurately predict just what it will take to do something that's a big step forward from current systems .....
#4
Not much in the way aerospace industry in their states. How's it feel to be in the minority, guys? Tough not being at the head table. Get used to it. Have to think that taxpayer money will be more effectively spent by limiting access of guys like these to the trough.
#10
I'm just a little offended (on Marino's behalf) that you would bring him into this discussion on an equal of Byrd and Rockefeller. Marino's done much more for the world (maybe less for W. VA)
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 19:30
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From the Dept. of Stupid Americans Won't Sign The Treaty Again
Political parties are the public institutions most marred by corruption, an international watchdog group said Thursday in a new global survey marking the United Nations' first International Anti-Corruption Day. Berlin-based Transparency International [released its] Global Corruption Barometer, which surveyed more than 50,000 people in 64 countries. TI chapters around the world were pressuring governments and parliaments Thursday to ratify the U.N. Convention against Corruption. The convention was signed in December 2003, but only 12 of the 30 nations required to ratify it before it can take effect have done so. The United States has not ratified the convention.
"International Anti-Corruption Day is an excellent opportunity for governments all over the world to prove that they take the fight against corruption seriously," said Cobus de Swardt, head of international programs for TI. "We invite them all to sign and ratify the United Nations convention and to take into consideration the clear message sent by public opinion in the world: Corruption strongly affects the life of every person," he said. "It is time to act."
#1
TI does good work and as usual their survey makes interesting reading.
Corruption get worse as you go south and east in Europe. In Western Europe, corruption is a particular problem in France and Portugal. Media seen as corrupt in many developed countries, especially anglophone. Large parts of Asia do well in the survey, Africa and Latin America are the worst for corruption. Brazil worst country.
#4
After sharing tips on high rates of return and anonymity of favorite Barbados bank accounts, the UN delegates adjourned to a five star lunch hosted by Kofi's son-in-law, insuring to double park their large limousines outside the resturant. As the lunchen wrapped, a ceremonial burning of employee harassment complaints was greeted by a round of civil applause. Delegates took a leisurely drive back to the conference to attend the next item on the agenda, Congo: Pediaphilia - not just for Priests.
Posted by: Don ||
12/10/2004 9:10
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#5
ah..nothing to start off the day like a good cup of coffee and something to laugh about.
#10
Jules, official statistics on corruption for fairly obvious reasons are not reliable. So asking people if they have been exposed to corruption is generally accepted to be a more reliable (but not perfect) way of measuring it.
#11
Phil-Makes sense for an overall take on corruption. I just wondered whether it would be as good a gauge for comparing the corruption of one country to that of another. The first item that made me pause was the one showing Estonia in the below 50 bracket and the US in the +50. I doubt it. And how about the amount of "corruption" a populace views as "normal"-it must vary by culture/government/history, right?
Thanks all the same, though, for your answer-bit of a 'duh' moment there for me. ;)
Fears of Islamic terrorists using Latin America as a base for operations against the United States have, so far, not produced much evidence. There are six million Moslems in Latin America, most of them immigrants from the Middle East. The area most often mentioned as the center of Islamic terrorism in South American is the tri-border area. Here, where Argentina, Brazil and Paraguay meet, the Paraguayan city of Ciudad del Este has long been known as a haven for smuggling, counterfeiting and all manner of illegal activities. The local government officials have been bribed into inactivity. But only about seven percent of the 300,000 city residents are Moslem. And most of those are Shia, who do not get along with the Sunni Arab dominated al Qaeda at all. But some of the Shia Arabs in Ciudad del Este do openly support Hizbollah, an Iranian supported, Shia Arab terrorist organization in Lebanon. The Ciudad del Este Hizbollah supporters are believed to have had something to do with two bombing attacks against Argentinean Jews in the 1990s. But beyond that, there's nothing but rumors. Many Moslems throughout Latin American favor Palestinian terrorists in their attacks against Israel. But efforts to find proof of any tangible involvement have so far failed.
Part of the reason is the corruption, and indifference (to Islamic terrorism) in many Latin American countries. Businesses run by Christians and Moslems must deal with the suffocating government bureaucracies in the region. The deals often involve bribes, and the bureaucrats do their part by looking the other way. At the same time, the local Moslems know they are a religious, and ethnic, minority in a very Christian part of the world. Tolerance could quickly turn to hatred, persecution and expulsion if Moslems were found to be involved in terrorist activities. Since many of the South American Moslems are refugees from various wars and tyrannies in the Middle East, they don't want to ruin their welcome and have to flee again. This, more than anything else, is what is keeping al Qaeda from setting up shop in South America. Most of the local terrorists are either communist (atheist) or Christian. There has been a lot of terrorism in South American over the last half century, and terrorists are not very popular, no matter what their cause.
There wouldn't be too much concern among the indigenous population if a few muslims "disappeared", the regional military has that down to a art form.
This is not to say that al Qaeda could not set up bases in the region, and build a support network that would enable attacks inside the United States. What can be said is that al Qaeda would be operating in a hostile neighborhood. The United States is said to have an informant network, courtesy of its anti-drug efforts in the region. As long as the cash keeps going out, tips on which new group is up to what will keep coming in. If American counter-terrorism organizations keep listening, they should hear about a threat before it becomes a disastrous attack.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
10:11:46 AM ||
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Most of the local terrorists are either communist (atheist (Shining Path)) or Christian. There has been a lot of terrorism in South American over the last half century, and terrorists are not very popular, no matter what their cause.
Christian terrorists? Does the IRA have branch offices in SA, or is it someone else? Or are they talking about last-gasp hold-overs from the military dictatorships that used to infest the continent?
#3
OTOH, Michele Malkin has live links to articles that dispute the "no worries/only rumors/no evidence" starategypage assessment of the terrorist threat from south of the border countries. Also read the links provided in the comments that follow, particularly the one about Mexicans cheering OBL in a recent soccer game. BTW, there are currently Islamic schools in 13 different Mexican cities - are we to believe that Muslim clerics in Mexico are preaching solely the peaceful variation of Islam? :
"What's the Spanish word for terrorist"
July 24, 2004
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000275.htm
Hispanics are the fastest growing ethnic group re: conversion to Islam:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/americanlatinos2.htm But in growing numbers, Hispanics, the country's fastest-growing ethnic group, are finding new faith in Islam, the nation's fastest-growing religion. In the Washington region, the population of Latino Muslims is largely from Mexico and Central America, as it is in western states, according to Latin American Muslim Unity, an advocacy group in Fresno, Calif. In other eastern cities, including Miami, significant numbers of converts are from Puerto Rico and Cuba.
"I think what many [Hispanics] are finding in Islam is a community that they find more nurturing," said Nicole Ballivian, a Los Angeles documentary filmmaker who is completing a movie about Latino Muslims called "Luces Sobre Islam" ("Islam in Focus"). She has traveled throughout South America and the Caribbean and visited many Hispanic Muslim communities here.
Then there's the article in the Washington Times about AQ seeking out ties to local Mexican gangs. The WT article brings out a little known fact-that last year alone 60,000 "Other than Mexican" illegals were caught trying to cross the southern border-that's a small percentage of the number of OTM that got in:
www.washtimes.com/national/20040928-123346-3928r.htm The Salvadoran gang, known to law enforcement authorities as MS-13 because many members identify themselves with tattoos of the number 13, is thought to have established a major smuggling center in Matamoros, Mexico, just south of Brownsville, Texas, from where it has arranged to bring illegal aliens from countries other than Mexico into the United States. Authorities said al Qaeda terrorists hope to take advantage of a lack of detention space within the Department of Homeland Security that has forced immigration officials to release non-Mexican illegal aliens back into the United States, rather than return them to their home countries. Less than 15 percent of those released appear for immigration hearings.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24987
Another agent, of supervisory rank, stated, "The smuggling traffic of Mexicans has really slowed. We are experiencing a tremendous increase in OTMs" â border lingo for "other than Mexicans." "Yeah, it varies, but about one in every 10 that we catch, is from a country like Yemen or Egypt."
Then there's http://www.nbc4.tv/news/3901282/detail.html
" Terrorists at the Border/" 11/08/04 It's a place that used to go by the name "Cocaine Alley" because of all the drugs that were smuggled through. But now some officials are more concerned about human smuggling, specifically illegal entry at the border by individuals who are not actually from Mexico. They're called "Special Interest Aliens," because they're coming from countries believed to be a threat. "People are coming here with bad intentions. I know of 10 that have been detained at my station alone," said a Border Patrol agent whose identity has been withheld at his request. He said this is something that agents have been told not to talk about. "We know for a fact that people coming from the Middle East are now coming into Mexico and spending a year, even two years in Mexico, to learn how to speak Spanish," the Border Patrol agent told NBC4."The key is to pass yourself off as a Mexican," said retired Army Colonel Ben Anderson. He has been following what he calls the terrorist trail and connecting the dots on his website. He said it's a journey that begins on the other side of the world."You come out of Cairo International and you go either to England or Madrid. From there, you either go to Paraguay or Brazil. There is a huge infra structure there waiting for you to learn how to speak Spanish. You're then going to transition your way up through Latin America ... into Mexico," Anderson said.
And it's estimated that of the Other than Mexican illegals caught in 2003, 6000 of those in 2003 were Special Interest illegals- from terrorist source nations.
http://www.house.gov/tancredo/newsroom/press/2004_08_04.html
"Twelve Congressmen Ask DHS for Inquiry into Non-Mexicans Who Enter the U.S. Illegally"
And http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/15/wmex15.xml
"Arab terrorists are getting into the US over Mexican border" Over the past month, border agents from Arizona and Texas have anonymously reported recent encounters with dozens of Arab men, who have made their way across the 2,000-mile Mexican border.Mr Ortiz also claims that immigration officials have privately warned him that a number of suspicious foreigners have been detained on the Mexican border and then released, including some who claimed to have travelled from South and Central America but were unable to speak Spanish.
Let's face it, the Southern and Central American nations are knee deep in corruption, so that fact in itself makes for a fertile ground for AQ operatives to thrive. Strategypage's optimism that there's no evidence that there's a terrorist threat to the USA from terrorists Muslims living/visiting in S.and C. America is hogwash.
#5
Let's face it, the Southern and Central American nations are knee deep in corruption, so that fact in itself makes for a fertile ground for AQ operatives to thrive.
So, if you take the corruption thread on rantburg today and this one, and add them to the "lack of imagination" finding of the 9/11 commission-what do you have? Opportunity.
Why wouldn't the jihadis take this chance:
Bribe Brazil (the hypercorrupt) to enter Venezuela, bribe Venezuela to get on a boat to Mexico (thereby bypassing extra palm grease and all those pesky Central American borders), and blend into a crowd of thousands of other people sliding across the border between Mexico and the US?
#6
As I recall, Chavez was reported to have given up to 20,000 Venezuelan visas to Arabs who are not friendly to the US. He is Not Our Friend and would not need bribing.
Posted by: too true ||
12/10/2004 15:05
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Europe's far right parties are considering the creation of a pan-European far-right movement, which would be the first such extreme hardliner coalition covering EU territory. Filip Dewinter, the leader of the Belgian Flemish extreme right-wing party, told Austrian media yesterday that they were considering creating an extreme right grouping in the EU legislative body, the European Parliament.
Last month, Vlaams Blok officially changed its name to "Vlaams Belang" (Flemish Interest) in response to a court ruling that found the party had violated Belgium's anti-racism laws. The Belgian Supreme Court confirmed a lower court's ruling that the Vlaams Blok was a racist organization under Belgian law, cutting off the party's access to state funding and television airtime, and effectively shutting down the extremist group.
The planned European-level coalition would include Austria's Freedom Party, Italy's Lega Nord, France's National Front, the Dutch New Right Party, and Dewinter's own Vlaams Belang. Dewinter said forces should now be joined to combat the "Islamization of Europe". All these parties are known for their anti-immigration stances in their home countries, while the Belgian right-wing party is also known for its radical xenophobic platform and a separatist campaign for independence in the northern region of Flanders.
Dewinter said he was considering Jörg Haider, leader of Austria's Freedom Party, to head the new movement, which they hope to form in time for EU elections in 2009. "I've had several talks with Jörg Haider and have the feeling that he's interested in this cooperation. I'm proposing to Jörg Haider that he be the top candidate of our movement," Dewinter told the Vienna weekly News magazine. Haider became a well known personality in Europe five years ago, when his party joined the center-right government. Other European countries responded by slapping sanctions on Austria. One of the key figures from Haider's party, Andreas Mölzer, met in Antwerp last week with like-minded figures from Belgium, the Netherlands, France, and Italy. Mölzer, an early strategist behind Haider's rise to power in Austria, is now a member of parliament representing the Freedom Party.
Just how "far right" are they, we talking brown shirts here?
Posted by: Steve ||
12/10/2004
10:10:03 AM ||
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#1
i think it varies, a bit. The austrian freedom party includes Haider, a Nazi apologist,and Le Pen is an antisemite and Vichy apologist. The Italian Northern League is, IIUC, more libertarian and antiimmigrant, without the antisemitism - but then Italians (even in fascist times) were always more sane (and less antisemitic) than their neighbors north of the Alps. The Belgian group Ive heard mixed things about.
So not quite Brown shirts, but definitely NOT our friends. And avoiding extremists like these, is one of the good reasons why centrist and liberal euros MUST deal more effectively with Islamic radicalism, and with unassimilated immmigrants.
#2
LH
Since there is no good way to deal effectively with Islamic radicalism other than reduce immigration and tighten security, wouldn't the best way to combat the goofy right be to essentially steal the best part of their platform?
#5
err, right medicine, maybe, but wrong doctors. Many of these guys are smelly little racists who not long ago (Le Pen, esp) were trashing Israel and the US.
The point re the Islamist threat is not their religion but their politics, which is fascist. Which is why liberals should be front and center in opposing and denouncing it. You don't defeat fascism with fascism.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/10/2004 15:36
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#7
I don't want Le Pen's people on my side. Because they're not on my side-- they hate the US and Israel as much as they hate the muslims-- and also because, like the Russian Army, they're a group of incompetent hacks with no real staying power or capability. Their support isn't worth it.
#8
Oriana Fallaci and Chris Hitchens, sure. Willen (?sp), that courageous Dutch legislator now under police protection-- absolutely. But not Haider or Le Pen. They won't make us any safer or prove effective partners in the long run.
#9
lex, yours is a very typical American/Anglophone response- assimilate - Americans/Angloculture as the Borg, and why not, it works for us. But you have to keep in mind that large parts of Europe, ethnicity, language, race is institutionalized. Take Belgium as an example. In 200 years Flemish and Walloons have lived largely separate existances. To suggest they take an assimilation approach with their muslims immigrants is ludicrous when after 200 years they failed to assimilate their existing cultures. These so called extremists are people who want to go back to they way things were and not get assimilated into a global culture, which is the only alternative on offer.
#10
If they really are brown shirts, I doubt they can gain all that much power. I don't really understand parlimentary systems. But... if flyby night competition puts your globally entrenched Enron competitor out of business...is everyone better or worse off?
#11
phil b, i tend toward the anglo assimilationist approach, but im not closeminded - shutting immigration MAY be the right thing for some countries. But these guys arent JUST antiimmigrant (well other than the Italian Northern League, IIUC) theyve got other baggage along as well.
#13
In Europe, being either pro-capitalism, pro-Israel, anti-UN, or anti-EU automatically makes you a right-wing extremist in the eyes of the mass media as well as a "fascist" in the words of the communists, socialists, and eco-fascists.
Not to speak of the names thrown at those who uphold the death penalty, the right to self-defense, or the right to keep and bear arms.
At college I was regularly called "fascist" because I denounced communism (even when I was denouncing fascism...).
I know first-hand that decent classical liberal parties in Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Switzerland were called right-wing extremists within and across borders by the mass-media.
Le Pen is a racist who mixes a few arguments for economic freedom in his speeches -- which makes it complex to argue against him when you're a confused leftist or centrist. Remember that he was the only alternative the French people had when they last elected Chirac...
The European problem is that there is no national dream similar to the American Dream, thus no motor of integration for immigrants. And then, there are the millions of anti-Western Moslems they've let in. Anyone who speaks up against the Moslem invasion is immediately called racist or fascist, thus strangling any rational, public debate on the topic of immigration and Islamofascism.
In my eyes, there is no way out for Western Europe -- it's fast leading to a violent civil war. We'll see Europeans expel the Moslems the way the Greeks did in the 19th century. And it won't be pretty. The only alternative would be to make the Moslem world (e.g. Morocco, Algeria, Turkey) more attractive and prosperous than Western Europe -- which is not going to happen anytime soon.
#14
Kalle, civil war is never good, but at least we know how well Islam does in real war lately....
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:53
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#15
In Europe, being either pro-capitalism, pro-Israel, anti-UN, or anti-EU automatically makes you a right-wing extremist in the eyes of the mass media as well as a "fascist" in the words of the communists, socialists, and eco-fascists.
Don't be ridiculous. Communists hate the EU, and so do the most left-leaning socialists. Being anti-EU is indeed to a far greater extent the province of the *leftist* parties, with only the most moderate of the leftists supporting the EU. (for example in the French Socialists' referendum for the European Constitution, it was the leftist side that opposed it, it was the moderate side that supported it. Similar examples from my own nation exist and the socialist parties there.)
It'd be much more accurate to say that moderate right-wing and moderate left-wing both support the EU, and it's both the extreme right-wing and the extreme left-wing that hate it.
#16
Don't be ridiculous. Communists hate the EU, and so do the most left-leaning socialists
Not as I see it, Aris - this is the perfect bureaucracy place to infiltrate, take over and conquer. Good luck
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 20:20
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#17
Not as I see it, Aris
Too bad that, unlike me, you can never share the factoids you supposedly see, nor the data-points that lead you to said conclusions. Makes your smug and fact-free posts a complete waste of time.
Find me a single Communist party that supports the European Constitution in any parliament of any European nation. *Then* dispute my facts.
Unless as usual, you don't care about facts, you only care about your preconceptions.
#18
my point was, unlike you, I can see this clay being molded into something terribly familiar....
no, I don't have a quote, and never said that I did, strawman
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 22:30
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From the Dept. of Why Bother?
Belgium is to manage the building of a new EUR 400 million-plus NATO headquarters, it emerged on Thursday. The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation's current base at Boulevard Leopold III was supposed to be temporary, but it has been there since 1967. NATO moved to Brussels from France after Charles de Gaulle withdrew his country from NATO's military section. On Wednesday, NATO's 26 members agreed Belgium's defence ministry should supervise the building of a new site across the road from the current base in Haren. Under the plans, building work will start next year, but probably won't be finished before 2012. Members had hoped the building would be finished by 2009, but America delayed the plans last year over irritation at Belgium's anti-war stance and the 'Universal Competence Law' which saw George Bush charged with war crimes.
Again, our fault. Wonder who's paying the lion's share of the costs?
Architects firm Skidmore, Owings and Merill and the Belgian architect Assar won an international competition to design the building which must house 3,150 full-time workers, including 1,000 from the delegations and military organisations of the 26 member countries.
#10
Should put this in a country that still has soldiers and leaders with enough testosterone to be effective, maybe Poland, Italy, or the UK. I'd rather see it in Iceland than Belgium, France or Germany. Not one dollar should be wasted with the pussies of the Axis of Weasels.
#2
Lol - good call VAM! The motive for this piece is, apparently, that he had half an idea and he likes the clickity-clack sound his keyboard makes, heh.
#1
overall good article, but the authors couldn't resist a snarky stab or two at Goss, quoting unidentified CIA malcontents.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 9:55
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#2
I think there is actually a simple criteria, when you boil it all down, to who Goss is dismissing: those individuals who *like* the people who live in their area of interest. A good area leader should have a distrustful distaste for his targets, along with a willingness to "pet the chicken". This means to smile and pick up the chicken, while speaking to it in low, soothing tones and stroking its feathers, to gain its trust and confidence. Then you coldly break its neck.
#1
Tis the season to don their gay apparel. Fa-la-la...
Posted by: Capt America ||
12/10/2004 9:12
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#2
Personally I think this is the way to go.
Marriage is two fold, the civil law aspect of it and uiltimate the religion/belief aspect of it.
Since it's a matter of religious theology on wether or not homosexual marriage should be allowed then I say let that religion bar it in their midst.
As for the state (which is supposed to be non-religiously slanted) I think they should fill out the friggin forms, and start letting them deal with each other's debts and have to spring butt tons of money for divorce lawyers like the rest of us have to.
I think that gay divorce will do more for gender equaltiy in law than anything else.
and for this, and other more apathetic reasons, I am all for gay marriage.
Long as no religion is forced to be a part of it (against their beliefs) then I could care less.
#5
Honestly, what's the big deal about two guys marrying each other....or two women marrying each other?
It makes me laugh to hear people say that gays are going to destroy marriage. Please.
The divorce rate was heading towards the sky before anyone even seriously brought up the issue. Straight people are the ones having the overwhelming majority of illegitimate kids. In most cases, both parents are free to marry each other, but they just don't want to for some reason.
Look, it's not like they are going to hog all the marriage licences (no state has a limit on the amount they issue per year), or that your wife or hubby is suddenly going to "go gay" the minute it's officially ok.
If a church doesn't want to do gay marriages, they don't have to. Churches and synagogues turn down requests for marriage ceremonies all the time. Even the ACLU won't take that case to court, and they fight for all kinds of crazy things.
And don't give me the "procreation" argument, either.....unless you were asked specifically how many kids you were going to have when you applied for your marriage licence. The state of Nevada didn't care if me and my husband were going to crank out the kids every year, or not have any at all. There were a couple ladies in line with us who would not have been able to have kids (one was in her 80's, God bless her, and beaming with happiness). If procreation was the only reason to get married, Clark County would have turned her and her groom down. They didn't.
Let 'em get married, pay taxes, settle down and have all the legal rights and responsibilities the rest of us do.
#6
Let 'em get married, pay taxes, settle down and have all the legal rights and responsibilities the rest of us do.
So the next step is adoption. And what you get are children who would otherwise grow up heterosexual, believing that bisexuality is whoopy-doo!! Well OK, if that's what you want.
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/10/2004 16:56
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#7
The 'gay' marriage issue is systematically distorted by the media. Society grants (through various mechanisms) financial benefits on married couples, which are justified on the basis married couples raise children. Gay couples (with rare exceptions) do not raise children. Gay marriage is a campaign to get the financial benefits, pure and simple. To pretend otherwise, is a lie.
Arguably the solution is to change systems such that only those who raise children get the benefits, but that requires removing benefits from a lot of people who have them now, always difficult in a democracy.
#8
Gay marriage is a campaign to get the financial benefits, pure and simple.
I completely agree phil. Otherwise, there is nothing denied to them that a civil union can't already provide - except the approval and respect they believe they can DEMAND.
Yadda..yadda. I'm sick of "look at me" gay issues. You'd think a global war on terror against a foe that would love to publically stone, them might have shifted their focus from whining about people who say mean and hurtful things, but nooo...
I could care less what people do in their bedrooms. I'm just sick of their schreechy demands for attention. Live your lives. Eveyone doesn't need to love you.
#9
Most cultures, and most people, realize that the human sexual response is fairly plastic (e.g., it can be molded into any number of differing fetishes), but the plasticity of human sexuality doesnât mean that atypical sexual response patterns are something any society should condone (toleration is a different matter). As I read Blackstone, to the extent behavior is purely private, it remains a private matter between the person and the Creator. To the extent behavior becomes public, the public behavior is subject to the Rule of Law, and the traditions and mores of society. IF HOMOSEXUALS DONâT LIKE THE GRIEF THEY GET FOR TRYING TO FOIST THEIR IMMORALITY ON SOCIETY IN GENERAL, THEY SHOULD JUST SHUT UP ABOUT THEIR DEVIANCY. If you canât take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Homosexuality is, and always has been, deviant.
deviant ⢠adjective diverging from normal standards, especially in social or sexual behaviour. ⢠noun a deviant person.
This site and this site are hosted by homosexuals leaving (or trying to leave) the homosexual lifestyle, and address the issue of homosexual orientation and/or homosexuals raising kids. If these people (who have first-hand experience with the homosexual lifestyle) see problems with the lifestyle, maybe we should too.
The whole subject of homosexuality and homosexual marriage in general is really about the deconstruction of socio-emotional cognitive concepts and schemas, and the traditions and mores honored worldwide and cross-culturally over millennia. The current âhomosexualâ marriage advertising campaign represents an attempt by the intellectually elite (and the intellectually dishonest) to redefine society and government in terms of their choosing -- and which happens to be pretty damn liberal.
#10
Rafael - the only way those kids would be bi or gay is if they already had that tendency.
I don't recall making the decision to be hetero, and my gay friends never sat down and decided to chase other guys.
There are already kids being raised by homosexuals and lesbians, and they aren't any more gay than the rest of the kids out there. You may not like to hear that, but it's the truth.
phil_b - Those are important, but not the only reasons. There are things like being legally able to visit your spouse in the hospital, being legally able to make decisions for your spouse's care, the ability of either partner to give children health insurance (one has it, the other doesn't through their job.....and the one without it is the biological or adoptive parent of the child. If they could marry, that kid would be eligible for health insurance.) Just for example.
Maybe I'm a bit more sympathetic to some of this, because my husband is not a citizen. We've had to take some extra steps we would not normally have to do if he was a citizen just to guarantee him the same rights as an American. And, yeah, it pisses me off to have to do that. But at least we (or he) can march in somewhere with our marriage license and be able to demand some rights that everyone else takes for granted.
#11
The whole subject of homosexuality and homosexual marriage in general is really about the deconstruction of socio-emotional cognitive concepts and schemas, and the traditions and mores honored worldwide and cross-culturally over millennia.
Umm.....English translation for those of us not trapped in academia, please?
#12
DB, the legally visiting/deciding for your spouse in hospital issue is regularly raised and has been debunked, If it occurs at all (in the USA) its rare. Otherwise, your examples involve kids which is my point.
My issue here is not so much gays want the benefits, in a democracy everyone has a right to agitate for a bigger piece of the pie, but the fact the issue is always misrepresented. Its hard to sell crass greed, so you have to dress it up as something else.
#14
The whole subject of homosexuality and homosexual marriage in general is really about the deconstruction of socio-emotional cognitive concepts and schemas, and the traditions and mores honored worldwide and cross-culturally over millennia.
deconstruction ⢠noun a method of critical analysis of language and text which emphasizes the relational quality of meaning and the assumptions implicit in forms of expression. â DERIVATIVES deconstructionism noun deconstructionist adjective & noun.
In other words, relativism versus absolutism.
With the advent of âmodern thoughtâ (about three hundred years ago, give or take a hundred) a lot of time honored traditions and concepts were relegated to the trash heap of âoutdated concepts.â The âmodern thoughtâ folks were convinced of their own superiority and believed that they could do better than what was shown to have worked in the past. The funny thing is that the elites werenât able to get the masses to go along with the program -- hence the development of the expression among elites: âthe masses are asses.â One classic case of such failed attempts at social reengineering is communism.
In reality, given that the whole universe of physics exhibits absolutes and constants, the same is probably true of humanity and human character. Humanity and human character (including morality, sexual choices, etc.) are probably also governed by absolutes and constants. The current âhomosexual marriageâ activists are simply railing against the inevitable -- the collapse of their ideals of social reengineering. For them, itâs a hard thing to not be god.
#16
Ok, cingold, nice dictionary.
However, you are conveniently forgetting all of the other "threats" to marriage that have been in the past.
One of the more recent is interracial marriage, ie. the wonderfully named Loving v Virginia case. The very idea of blacks and whites getting married had a long history of people being against it. It used to be called miscegenation, if I am correct. Critics of the practice railed about how it was going to destroy marriage and society as we know it, bring about the Apocalypse, and all other kind of horrible plagues and abominations.
Didn't happen.
Look, if you want real "traditional" marriage, then I guess polygamy floats your boat. It's been around for centuries.....it's in the Bible....and it's still practiced in parts of the world today.
It'll probably make you puke, but just because something has been accepted for generations does not necessarily make it right. Some social engineering ideas have been correct (abolition of slavery, the rights of women to vote and be treated as equals, the list goes on.)
All I am saying is that I haven't yet seen any argument that allowing two gays to marry is going to invalidate or destroy my own marriage. I keep hearing that allowing them to do what I did is going to destroy America.
Y'know what? Straight people are doing more to destroy marriage than gays ever could. We treat it as something disposable (heaven knows how many so-called Christians are on their third, or more, marriages), we don't give a damn about the kids being ripped apart while we "find a relationship that fulfills me", and somehow ol' Steve and Frank who have been together 30 years and want to make it legal disrespect marriage?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:25
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#18
Steve and Frank?!?!? Oh, in that case, congratulations!
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/10/2004 18:28
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#19
The same thing that ticks me off about gay's is the same thing that ticks me off about Muslims. I have nothing against the individuals going about living their own lives...
But... their, often self-appointed, "representatives" saturate us with "poor me" stories about how intolerant everyone else is toward them and their beliefs and in the very process of doing so they show the most extreme intolerance to anyone whose beliefs don't jive with their own.
Take for the issue of the Boyscouts. Imagine the millions of disadvanted poor children who benefit and get great joy. But gay activists are more than happy to deprive MILLIONS of poor children the chance to participate just to prove how intolerant everyone else is. Bleh.
#20
Apparently, I've been a typical guy and forgot all "our" anniversaries....Ummmmm, Steve who?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:37
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#21
If a homosexual's personal ego can't even see his/her way clear to abide by the simplest rule of having a hetero relationship in order to be married why should society grant this tiny group an exception.
DB you 'can't see anything wrong' with granting state recognition of homosexual marriage, which is your right. So, tell me what is right about it?
And the answer is there isn't anything right about it. It is wrong. It is considered wrong by every society extant on earth from time immemorial, and it is wrong in this society as wel...
There are some things in this world which are wrong and they are immutable. Murder, rape amd robbery, all codified as wrong by law just like homosexuality until last year when SCOTUS found that everyone has the Constitutional Right or have fellatio or cunniligus, etc; The decision is wrong on the face of it because I defy anyone in the world to find the right that says that you have the right to engage in sex however you want and to have the state recognize you as a personl with special rights no one in the world can possibly ever have.
You find nothing wrong with it? Good for you. Now, find soemthing right about it. The fact is, you can't. Homosexuality is as deviant as the legal logic which made it a Constitutional Right.
#22
BTW, short and sweet on my part - marriage, no - civil union OK - adoption and raising of children no
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:46
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#23
And what you get are children who would otherwise grow up heterosexual, believing that bisexuality is whoopy-doo!! Well OK, if that's what you want.
Yes, you are right -- the real issue is not just about some legal "right" to marriage but rather about the societal acceptance of homosexuality and bisexuality as normal and morally acceptable behaviours. And since that's indeed what I want, I think I'll keep on supporting same-sex marriages.
As a sidenote: Besides Canada, in the last weeks we've also had United Kingdom, New Zealand and Israel accepting some sort of civil/domestic unions/partnerships between same-sex couples (different terminology in each country but concept's the same). Ireland's debating it, same sex marriage in Spain is already under way, and one of the two main presidential candidates in Romania (runoff takes place on Sunday) has also vowed to legalize same-sex marriage if elected. And in the last case he used adoption as an argument in favour of same-sex marriage, not against it.
But... their, often self-appointed, "representatives" saturate us with "poor me" stories about how intolerant everyone else is toward them and their beliefs and in the very process of doing so they show the most extreme intolerance to anyone whose beliefs don't jive with their own.
That's kinda the way I feel about conservatives and their "poor-little-us" stories about everyone persecuting their traditions and wanting to destroy civilisation as-they-know-it.
#24
In the last week we've also read that doctors can decide to kill children up to 12 yrs of age in the Netherlands, without their parents' approval or involvement.
So your point is what, Aris? That if lots of people do it it's good and right?
Pfeh.
Posted by: too true ||
12/10/2004 18:52
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#25
In the last week we've also read that doctors can decide to kill children up to 12 yrs of age in the Netherlands, without their parents' approval or involvement.
So your point is what, Aris? That if lots of people do it it's good and right?
Pfeh.
Posted by: too true ||
12/10/2004 18:52
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#26
Oh and blondie? Your little canard about marriage being on the ropes?
My parents each had two partners, Their parents had two partners. Their partners' parents had two partners. Now, that is three generations in my family which went through divorce/changes over a 100 plus year period.
Now, you are telling me becuase the statistics taking is better to account for divorces making it look worse than it ever was is your justification for allowing homosexuals the same right?
This new 'right' is closer to a lawyers' full employtment bill than to anything that could conceivably benefit society.
Homosexual marriage/civil unions is wrong on so many levels.
#27
RE: #16. Please take this in the spirit it is intended, a rant and civil discourse. : )
One of the more recent is interracial marriage, ie. the wonderfully named Loving v Virginia case. The very idea of blacks and whites getting married had a long history of people being against it. It used to be called miscegenation
LOL. That sounds terribly incriminating against those old religious zealots, donât you think? The thing is this railing against interracial marriage was mostly an invention of the elites. They were the original eugenicists. Cattell even offered to pay people to âmarry up.â Termin wanted to exterminate the Mexicans, Blacks and American Indians. These eugenicist guys were all deconstructionists. Remember that Arch-Conservative Traditionalist Book called the Bible? It is full of examples of interracial marriage -- without criticism of the practice. There is even something about âin Christâ no male, no female, no Jew, no Greek . . .
Look, if you want real "traditional" marriage, then I guess polygamy floats your boat
Hmmmmmmmmm. Yes that sort of thing is mentioned in the Bible. Just like the sun rises and sets, clouds are in the sky, etc. No everything in the Bible is a moral command. Quite a bit of the Bible just tells the story of what was going on at different points in human history. The actual doctrines appear to encourage one man, one woman marriages. In fact, in the New Testament, you canât even be a deacon if you have more than one wife. In the Old Testament, Adam only married Eve -- thatâs about as far back as the Bible goes . . .
It'll probably make you puke, but just because something has been accepted for generations does not necessarily make it right. Some social engineering ideas have been correct (abolition of slavery, the rights of women to vote and be treated as equals, the list goes on.)
I RESPECT YOUR POINT OF VIEW -- but I think youâre totally wrong. The bastions of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness find their bedrock in Judeo-Christian principles and nowhere else.
Whoever said that commitment to traditional, and biblical, concepts of human morality somehow make people immune from shortcomings? I thought it was the Bible that taught that everybody falls short, but encourages all to forget what lies behind and press forward for better things. Also, whatever gave you the idea that homosexuals are some ultimate affront to morality? Thatâs certainly not what the Bible teaches. Iâm sure there are a lot of gays out there that are better people than I am, and I wish them well. THAT SAID, THEIR DEVIANCY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SOCIETY SHOULD ENCOURAGE OR PROMOTE -- ANY MORE THAN SOCIETY SHOULD PROMOTE ANYTHING LESS THAN EXCELLENT.
#29
Jeebus Ship! close with /sarcasm or we'll never know WTF is going on
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 18:59
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#30
badanov> you 'can't see anything wrong' with granting state recognition of homosexual marriage, which is your right. So, tell me what is right about it?
It's right that two people who commit themselves to mutually supporting and sustaining each other through better and worse, declaring themselves to be one before the world, to have this union of theirs accepted and sanctified by society.
Now, find soemthing right about it. The fact is, you can't.
I just did.
The decision is wrong on the face of it because I defy anyone in the world to find the right that says that you have the right to engage in sex however you want
Ah, there we go at the core of this debate. According to you, something needs to be granted to the peopel as a "right" before they can be permitted to do it.
According to me however, people are free to do anything you wish, UNLESS there's proper justification for why they should be forbidden to do it.
"Amendment IX: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
to have the state recognize you as a personl with special rights no one in the world can possibly ever have.
Not special rights. Common rights. Your only way to justify lack of same-sex marriage is if you introduce the need for childbirth potential in hetero marriages as well-- that means that someone who finds his spouse to be infertile should be able to declare the marriage null immediately. It would also means that women past the age of menopause couldn't marry. It makes a mockery of marriage, a mockery, I tell you!
#31
Gosh, you know Aris, maybe you are right. Maybe the majority members of this Christian nation should act in the same manner and deprive all people who don't believe like they do access to public property. And the 90% of the families here that celebrate Christmas should do like they do in the Middle East and use their pulpits call for the extermination of anyone who doesn't practice their same beliefs.
#32
Remember that Arch-Conservative Traditionalist Book called the Bible? It is full of examples of interracial marriage -- without criticism of the practice.
Much of the Old Testament is condemnation of marriages between Jews and non-Jews.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 19:12
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#33
Aris, SCOTUS took the right away from the states to regulate behavior. States have rights just like individials.
It's right that two people who commit themselves to mutually supporting and sustaining each other through better and worse, declaring themselves to be one before the world, to have this union of theirs accepted and sanctified by society.
There is no benefit, therefore no sanctity.
Ah, there we go at the core of this debate. According to you, something needs to be granted to the peopel as a "right" before they can be permitted to do it.
SCOTUS took a right away from the states. Therefore the same right can be taken from individuals. It is a dangerous precedent the court has established and the mere fact a Euro like yourself accepts it is all I need to know it is the wrong thing to do.
Remember, Aris. A right was taken from the states. Now, rights can be taken from homosexuals. Be ready for when it happens.
Way to go you, asshole. You just opened up a Pandora's box. Enjoy your life while rights are taken from you.
#34
Much of the Old Testament is condemnation of marriages between Jews and non-Jews. Much? Good grief, give me a percentage. I'll be surprised if it's in the teens. Oh, BTW, that's a religious issue -- not racial. Anyone could become a Jew, regardless of race.
#35
So your point is what, Aris? That if lots of people do it it's good and right?
Nope -- only that very soon anti-same-sex marriage folk won't be able to use the supposed common traditions of mankind as an argument, nor will they be able to claim that all societies find same-sex marriage evil and abhorrent. Very soon now, most free and democratic societies will find the possibility of same-sex marriage normal.
And since mere tradition is the main argument against same-sex marriage, you've put your money on the wrong horse. Atleast with both the death penalty *and* abortion there are actual differing moral philosophies justifying each position.
With same-sex marriage however it's just a "Waaaa! Same-sex marriage is new and so strange and it scares me - I want to return to my comfort zone". Either tradition or religion. No secular self-consistent moral argument seems to exist, which is what makes the anti-samesex-marriage position doomed to failure.
#36
As for the New Testament, it doesn't really encourage marriage of any kind. The authors expected that the world would end any day. In those circumstances, marriage was rather irrelevant. The main idea was, if you absolutely must have sex, then go ahead and get married, but the better of us will endure these last few days until Judgment Day.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 19:17
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#37
With same-sex marriage however it's just a "Waaaa! Same-sex marriage is new and so strange and it scares me - I want to return to my comfort zone".
You'd have to be a moron to believe that homosexuality is new.
Oh wait.. Better rephrase that, Aris, or you might lose your Eurostan decoder ring.
Start reading and keep reading. You'll get the idea pretty quit. It's practically the main theme of the Old Testament.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 19:18
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#39
With same-sex marriage however it's just a "Waaaa! Same-sex marriage is new and so strange and it scares me - I want to return to my comfort zone". Either tradition or religion.
jeez I feel stoopid arguing with a Greek about historical tradition (/give in to superiority). I shoulda known you'd accept dropping the soap was a societal norm. My answer: civil unions and keep it outta my face, but no perpetuating it
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 19:19
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#40
I meant to say, You'll get the idea pretty quick.
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Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 19:19
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#41
I'VE GOT AN IDEA! Let's take the dictionary, and redefine all the terms. Gay no longer means happy, it means same-sexual. Marriage is no longer a religious sacrament, it's, it's, it's, a social benefit package. **//SARCASM OFF** Ect., ect., ect.
First rule of rhetoric. Define the terms. That is all the deconstructionists are doing. They want to remake society in an image of their own chosing. They want to play god. They want to ignore and flaunt the absolute and constant metaphysical rules of the universe. Take a clue from communism, social reengineering doesn't work.
#42
As for the New Testament, it doesn't really encourage marriage of any kind. The authors expected that the world would end any day. In those circumstances, marriage was rather irrelevant. The main idea was, if you absolutely must have sex, then go ahead and get married, but the better of us will endure these last few days until Judgment Day
Mike you're an idiot. Confusing not-encouraging an established tradition for accepting its' trampling? Jeebus....
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 19:22
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#44
I'd suggest you two get a room to discuss us neanderthals
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 19:23
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#45
2b> "Maybe the majority members of this Christian nation should act in the same manner and deprive all people who don't believe like they do access to public property"
Mmm, are you arguing against yourself? Because that's not a sarcastic representation of *my* argument, it's a sarcastic representation of the anti-gay rights argument, where because gays are a tiny minority they supposedly can have no marriage rights.
badanov> States have rights just like individials.
Oh no. States have rights just like *governments* have rights. Don't forget for a moment that the individual states are just a different level of government, and that they are *NOT* individuals. Only individuals are individuals with inalienable rights. Never states.
The real big deal isn't the division of powers between the federal government and the states, but rather the protection of the private individual from the interference of the government as a *whole*. And if the federal government prevented the state government from imposing tyranny on the individuals that's for the *good* of individual rights.
SCOTUS took a right away from the states. Therefore the same right can be taken from individuals
BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT. Individual rights have nothing in common with state rights. Only statists think that a person's (inalienable) rights and a government's rights (granted only by the consent of the governed and restricted) are at all comparable at all.
Government rights and individual rights are the *antithesis* of each other.
#46
As for the New Testament, it doesn't really encourage marriage of any kind. The authors expected that the world would end any day. In those circumstances, marriage was rather irrelevant. The main idea was, if you absolutely must have sex, then go ahead and get married, but the better of us will endure these last few days until Judgment Day NOT TRUE. PETER (THE ROCK) WAS MARRIED. SEVERAL OF THE APOSTLES HAD âBELIEVING WIVES.â EVEN PAUL, WHO WAS CELIBATE, SPOKE OF MARRIAGE AS A GIFT EQUAL TO HIS GIFT OF CELIBACY. Mike, you donât know what you are talking about.
Start reading and keep reading. You'll get the idea pretty quit. It's practically the main theme of the Old Testament. .ALSO NOT TRUE. WHY DONâT YOU TRY IT, RATHER THAN ME HAVING TO TRY TO PROVE A NEGATIVE. READ THE OLD TESTAMENT AND GIVE ME A PERCENTAGE.
#47
The simple fact is that the following is a false statement:
It [the Bible] is full of examples of interracial marriage -- without criticism of the practice.
It's especially false when you look at the Bible comprehensively. The Old Testament as a whole is furiously opposed to Jews marrying non-Jews. The New Testament as a whole does not encourage marriage of any kind; it treats marriage as a kind of weakness.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 19:27
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#48
WHY DONâT YOU TRY IT, RATHER THAN ME HAVING TO TRY TO PROVE A NEGATIVE!
ahhhhhhh another trapped in the MS web
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 19:27
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#49
"Waaaa! Same-sex marriage is new and so strange and it scares me - I want to return to my comfort zone". You'd have to be a moron to believe that homosexuality is new
You have to be blind to read "same-sex marriage" as "homosexuality".
But on another matter I'm intrigued -- what the fuck do the rest of you think about badanov's idea that supposedly taking rights away from the states is exactly the same as taking rights away from individuals?
The funny think is that it's me who's been accused as the statist, when it's little conservative morons like badanov who've been the statist fascists all along.
The fight is just beginning, badanov, indeed, as you said. Your kind once supported "state rights" that in reality meant slavery, now your kind is supporting "state rights" that means forbidding homosexuality. Everything is about the state for you, badanov, nothing is about the individual.
#50
Only individuals are individuals with inalienable rights. Never states. The real big deal isn't the division of powers between the federal government and the states, but rather the protection of the private individual from the interference of the government as a *whole*. And if the federal government prevented the state government from imposing tyranny on the individuals that's for the *good* of individual rights.
Yoiu quoted the `10th Amendment. It specifically mentions the states. The individual states have certain rights not enumerated in the Constitution. Says it right there in the document.
But now SCOTUS, thanks to gay folks, just said rights that states have can be taken from them. Therefore individual rights can as well. It is how the US constitution works.
He and any other married disciples probably got married before they became disciples of Jesus.
READ THE OLD TESTAMENT AND GIVE ME A PERCENTAGE.
I have read the Old Testament. That's why I know what' I'm talking about. The Old Testament is absolutely saturated with disapproval of Jews marrying non-Jews. I'd say 90% saturated.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 19:31
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#52
The fight is just beginning, badanov, indeed, as you said. Your kind once supported "state rights" that in reality meant slavery, now your kind is supporting "state rights" that means forbidding homosexuality. Everything is about the state for you, badanov, nothing is about the individual.
Aris, the states do have rights. That is why states can take the federal government to court. If they didn;t have rights or standing they couldn't.
And this has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with what indivuals can do as individuals and what states can do as states.
I can tell I am winning trhe argument coz Aris is calling me a moron and he is trying to change the subject racism/slavery.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 19:34
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#54
Wow, Aris and Mikey tag teaming. This thread's guaranteed triple digits. Sorry I had to go out for dinner and am now so pleasantly sated that I'll miss this one.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/10/2004 19:42
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#55
Aris, the states do have rights. That is why states can take the federal government to court.
Ofcourse they do have rights. *Governments* as a whole have rights -- rights given them through the mandate of the people.
But what happened in this case is that one branch/level of the government (the federal level) decided that government as a whole (regardless of whether federal or state level) DOESN'T have a certain right.
Government therefore *reduced* its scope. And it increased the rights of the individuals.
I can tell I am winning trhe argument coz Aris is calling me a moron and he is trying to change the subject racism/slavery.
I also called you a statist fascist btw. And it's the exact same subject -- thinking that "state rights" are inalienable, and caring not a damn about individual rights.
And I quoted the ninth amendment, not the tenth. And the ninth amendment doesn't say anything about the states.
And as for "winning the argument" you already lost it when you attacked me of opening the Pandora's box. LOL! Oh yeah, I've never heard that tired fear-based cliche before from people attacking same-sex marriage.
#56
Wow, Aris and Mikey tag teaming. This thread's guaranteed triple digits. Sorry I had to go out for dinner and am now so pleasantly sated that I'll miss this one.
Since they're pro-homosexual, maybe they're just trolling for a threesome. :o)
#57
Mike, just for you, a couple short examples about the Old Testament not being racist, and the New Testament not downplaying marriage. But, I really think you should try reading the Book before leaping to wild conclusions about it.
Ru 4:13 So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the LORD gave her conception, and she bare a son. BUT, BUT, BUT RUTH WAS A MOABITE, NOT A JEW -- WASNâT THAT WRONG? HOW CAN SHE BE AN ANCESTOR OF KING DAVID WHEN MIKE TELLS ME THE OLD TESTAMENT PEOPLE HATED NON-JEWS?
Jos 6:25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her fatherâs household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho. Mt 1:5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; BUT, BUT, BUT RAHAB WASNâT A JEW, SHE WAS JUST SOME HARLOT WHO HID THE SPIES -- WASNâT THAT WRONG? HOW CAN SHE BE AN ANCESTOR OF KING DAVID WHEN MIKE TELLS ME THE OLD TESTAMENT PEOPLE HATED NON-JEWS?
Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. BUT, BUT, BUT MIKE TOLD ME THAT THE NEW TESTAMENT PEOPLE DOWNPLAYED MARRIAGE -- ISNâT HONORING MARRIAGE A STRANGE WAY TO DOWNPLAY IT?
1Ti 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith . . . Forbidding to marry . . . BUT, BUT, BUT MIKE TOLD ME THAT THE NEW TESTAMENT PEOPLE DOWNPLAYED MARRIAGE -- ISNâT EQUATING FORBIDDING TO MARRY WITH APOSTASY A STRANGE WAY TO DOWNPLAY MARRIAGE?
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. BUT, BUT, BUT MIKE TOLD ME THAT THE NEW TESTAMENT PEOPLE DOWNPLAYED MARRIAGE -- ISNâT THE ADMONITION TO MUTUAL LOVE AND RESPECT BETWEEN A HUSBAND AND WIFE A STRANGE WAY TO DOWNPLAY MARRIAGE?
#58
Aris, your protestations about my fascism notwithstanding, you should know that states and ggovernments in the US all regulate behavior, good behavior and bad. They do it through proscriptions or maybe through tax policy, but make no mistake there is such a thing as rights that are involved in that. The states have the right to impose taxes, and pass laws 'not enumerated' in the Constitution. That is a right, amoungst many many others and it has exactly nothing to do with the issue of slavery. That fact in no way makes me a fascist either for pointing it out or for supporting the rights of states.
I understand your need to trash my country because of long past mistakes but we don;t even try to deny we were some bad people in some of our policies, albeit in the long, long distant past. But this country has evolved into soemthing much better and we want to keep it improving. I seriously doubt that by denying homosexuals their now Constitution right to use their genitalia is ways others than what is right and proper will change what our nation is.
Now, homosexuality has nothing to do with race. It has to do with behavior, for ultimately it is their very behavior that distinguishes a homosexual. And it is behavior that the states and the federal government seek to regulate, whither by tax policy or by proscription or some other means.
But for all the canards you use, for all the attempts to change the subject, for all the irrelevent arguments you try to throw nothing changes the fact that homosexuality is a behavior. It is imminently changable behavior and it is desireable that that behavior be changed to heterosexual behavior. It is desireable because it is a goal of society to demonstrate the behaviors that the states seeks to encourage.
You have to understand my point of view. If a homosexual lacks the judgement necessary to help society along by marrying and raising a family, what does that refusal say about that person's judgement? Do we want to grant them a right by virute of their behavior, and to tell the rest of society that the governemnt now believes that homosexual behavior is a beneficial as heterosexual behavior?
Aris, get a clue. You want to throw arguments at me that have nothing to do with homosexuals seeking the right to have their unions condoned by governments and that is just aint happening. It won't change my mind and you are simply antagonzing this debate.
#59
#51 PETER (THE ROCK) WAS MARRIED. He and any other married disciples probably got married before they became disciples of Jesus.
Probably????!!!!! Huh? Read the Early Church Fathers. Marriage is a cool thing. There are even whole Church services where people get married -- dating way back to the beginning of the Christian Church. The Bible and the Early Church often spoke about how the relationship between God and his people was like a relationship between a husband and a wife. For a proof text in the New Testament, how about this:
âMy answer to those who are judging me is this. Have we no right to take food and drink? Have we no right to take about with us a Christian wife, like the rest of the Apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?â (1Co 9:3-5 BBE)
So, Paul could have married a wife -- he just didnât, and that was OK, too.
#60
I understand your need to trash my country because of long past mistakes
Don't be again absurd. I am *praising* your country when it moved to stop itself from having homosexuality be illegal (when you attacked it instead). And three of your fifty states offer either same-sex marriage or civil unions -- California seems soon to follow, and so may Washington State so that may soon be five states.
Yeah, USA may be behind large chunks of Europe and the rest of the Anglosphere but it's still more progressive than most of the rest of the world. So yay, America.
And it is behavior that the states and the federal government seek to regulate, whither by tax policy or by proscription or some other means.
Behaviour must be forbidden only when it's *harmful* behaviour. People have still not managed to argue any innate harmfulness in homosexuality. Other than that it's "icky" ofcourse. Or that it doesn't lead to breeding children.
"homosexuality is a behavior."
Yes, homosexual sex is a behaviour. But I think the state has no business forbidding behaviour that isn't harmful.
If a homosexual lacks the judgement necessary to help society along by marrying and raising a family, what does that refusal say about that person's judgement?
It probably says that he doesn't think people are cattle to be bred, and that human beings serve other functions than just bearing young.
But as for having a family and raising children, that's what the whole issue of adoption rights for same-sex couples is all about, I think.
You want to throw arguments at me that have nothing to do with homosexuals seeking the right to have their unions condoned by governments and that is just aint happening.
Sure it is happening -- as I said: all over the world, such unions are being condoned by governments. In the United States itself, 3 states down, 47 to go. And a majority of Europeans I think lives in countries that recognize or are preparing to recognize same-sex marriages or atleast civil unions. Here you go.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 20:40
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#62
Good point Frank. This discussion is all well and good, but looks like it will all be for naught (for the Euro community that is).
Posted by: Rafael ||
12/10/2004 20:45
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#63
Sharia seems more likely to be declared on North America first, the way I see it. All that "regulating behaviour" because it "isn't desirable", according to badanov.
#64
WHEN MIKE TELLS ME THE OLD TESTAMENT PEOPLE HATED NON-JEWS?
I didn't say that. I said the Old Testament said that Jews should not marry non-Jews.
THE NEW TESTAMENT PEOPLE DOWNPLAYED MARRIAGE -- ISNâT HONORING MARRIAGE A STRANGE WAY TO DOWNPLAY IT?
The New Testament mentions marriage several times. It mentions the issue of circumcision many, many more times and with much, much more interest.
Marriage was tolerated. It wasn't really criticized. Those people who got married were not condemned for it. It didn't matter much. Very soon the world would end, so marriage was just a temporary state until then.
In the following centuries, of course, the Church developed strong encouragement and guidelines for marriage. Most of the people who wrote the New Testament, however, did not encourage people to get married and did not think it was an important part of life in the remaining days. Whether or not men should get circumcised in the remaining days was much more significant.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/10/2004 21:42
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#65
No, Mike Sylwester, you're just plain wrong. Try citing some support for your lame positions.
#66
Cingold? Could you be a little more clear? Please present evidence and footnotes why....... (ACCCCKKKKK!!!!!)
LOL
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/10/2004 22:35
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#67
Oh my dear sweet God, this has gotten strange.
First of all, badanov, whatever two legal-age, consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes is none of the damn government's business. I don't care what you and your church believe. It is a matter strictly between those two people and whichever deity they choose (or not choose) to worship. I'll be damned if some legislator is gonna tell me what I can and can't do with my husband. Deal with it.
And, yeah, I do happen to think that so-called Christians marrying and divorcing over and over again is a disgrace to Christianity. We have a real doozy in my own state legislature. She's been married five times. She's never been widowed, always divorced. She was always trying to get legislation passed to protect "the family" from things like sex toys. Her own family is a friggin' train wreck, but she's going to protect mine? I think not.
And for once, I'm agreeing with Mike Sylwester and agreeing again with Aris.
Wow.
I don't know the specific Bible verse, but I recall that St Paul wasn't too cool on the whole idea. Wasnât there a verse that said(I'm paraphrasing here), "tis better to marry than to burn", meaning more or less, "if you can't control your lust then ok, go get married"?
#68
BTW, cingold, nothing personal. ;) I respect your right to your opinion, and whatever way you want to read the Bible. I just disagree with how you interpret it.
Ain't it great to live in a country where we can debate this instead of shoot each other?
Now, excuse me, you wonderful people, but I got a hot date I'm late for. ;)
#1
Why don't we return the favor and close 1/2 of the schools from L.A. south for "incomplete papers and bad behavior"
Posted by: Theo ||
12/10/2004 9:21
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#2
Here in New Mexico we host even more Mexican students who just happen to cross the border and use the resources of the public school system. The Columbus NM school system in particular. If you check the per capita income by state, only Mississippi and Louisiana are lower. Like we can really afford this. Its the same old story of administrators, who get funding per student, don't want to be part of the border enforcment process.
Posted by: Don ||
12/10/2004 9:24
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#3
Just my luck: my daughter spikes her hair with fire-engine-red hair gel and I don't find out about these schools until they're closed.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/10/2004 9:27
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#4
I think Mexico is trying to cause an uproar in America so they can claim hypocracy.
#5
Here in New Mexico we host even more Mexican students who just happen to cross the border and use the resources of the public school system.
I'll bet that if anything irregular were discovered there and Mexican kids were sent back, the howls of outrage (from Mexico and U.S. Latinos alike) would probably be pretty damned loud.
The UK's most senior military officer has blamed media coverage on the Black Watch redeployment for attacks which claimed several soldiers' lives. Chief of Defence Staff General Sir Michael Walker said the media's coverage may have prompted Iraqi insurgents to attack the soldiers. He told BBC Two's Newsnight programme attacks were "enhanced" by reports. Five members of the 850-strong battlegroup died during attacks when they moved closer to Baghdad. "The contribution towards the initial attacks against the Black Watch was certainly enhanced by, if you like, a media picture that was being laid across a number of channels in all sorts of places," he said.
"Y'mean loose lips still sink ships?"
"That's ridiculous! They din't have no ships in Basra!"
The reports meant "there could well have been a response by those who wished us ill to go and meet us with something like a bomb", he said. Most of the attacks on the Black Watch happened during the early stages of their redeployment from Basra to near the Iraqi capital, where they relieved US forces preparing for an attack on the city of Falluja. They included roadside bombs as well as mortar and small arms attacks on their base at Camp Dogwood. Gen Walker said: "Certainly the attacks against the Black Watch happened at that stage. "I'm certain, too, that the media coverage would have made it easier for anybody who wanted to conduct those attacks to do so."
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom ||
12/10/2004
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#3
The same concept multiplied a thousand fold should have every self-respecting media outlet riddled with guilt for the untimely deaths of coalition soldiers throughout this entire war.
Oh wait-self-respecting media? What am I saying!?!?!
#1
This is an interesting recitation of the 9/11 Commission findings and the subsequent / recommended legislation with analysis. What I find most fascinating, however, is a step removed from the actual text. The subtext caught my attention. B Raman, obviously a distinguished former India Cabinet Secretary and currently Director of an Indian think tank, must've been giddy writing it. Imagine the assignment: Tell us what the US should do. Lol!
Hell, telling America what it should do is a global sport - enjoyed by all, from software students in Greece to the monkeys of organ grinders in Hyde Park. The learned B Raman certainly gave it a good effort and enjoyed the process immensely, I'm sure.
I could point out that India has (had?) tremendous potential... resources, smart people, courageous and hard-working... but what is India today? Unrealized potential, still. Too many mouths, too little productivity - a first tier potential mired in third tier reality. So I guess, in actual practice, perhaps Indian views aren't necessarily hot shit - think tank or no.
Similarly we could look to the deep thinkers elsewhere for that golden "What you should do is..." answer - but wait a second... on average they fare little better than India, in fact. Hmmm... how can this be - given their vaunted rich heritage, constant eloquent opining, and sophisticated deep thought universities and think tanks? Aren't they superior and our betters? Lordy, they all say so and seem to believe it themselves - even to the point of trying to meddle in our elections process, bleeping and mewling about how they should have a vote or some such nonsense. Hmmm. Looking closely, we see that many are sliding backwards economically, in fact, and miring themselves in socialism and failed ideologies... Call me an uppity cowboy, but that looks like a sure recipe for disaster, not salvation. So maybe, just maybe, they aren't such hot shit, either.
Gee, what's left? I guess us dumb as hell simplisme cowboy superpower Americans will have to just keep muddling along on American thoughts and solutions. We haven't done half-bad, I guess, and better than most all the rest.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
An Italian school's substitution of a Nativity play with Little Red Riding Hood so as not to offend Muslim children has raised the Vatican's ire and sparked debate on how much traditions should change to accommodate immigrants. 
Syrian police yesterday dispersed more than 100 activists who blocked traffic in central Damascus during a demonstration to push for further political reforms in the Arab country. The official Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA), in what is believed to be its first report on a local rights activists' function, said police made no arrests. "A number of citizens gathered today...at the center of Damascus on the occasion of the international day for human rights without obtaining a prior permission from the authorities," SANA said.
Syria and Lebanon were "very receptive" to Palestinian requests to upgrade relations with them, PLO chairman Mahmoud Abbas said in Jordan after landmark visits to both countries. "We asked Syria to raise the status from a representation to an embassy and in Lebanon, we asked to open an embassy. They were very receptive," Abbas told reporters here. The Palestine Liberation Organization has a representative office in Syria, where Abbas led a high-powered Palestinian delegation earlier this week for talks with President Bashar Assad to mend strained ties.
Dear Dr. KareemâŠ
Police found four suspected bombs at the Taiwan capital's main railway station hours on Thursday, just two days before a hotly contested legislative election, a railway policeman said. Police found two packages of suspected explosive devices each at both the north and southern entrances to the station in central Taipei. Earlier, fire had destroyed a number of vehicles in a nearby car park but caused no injuries, he said. "After the midday fire in a car park outside the Taipei Railway Station, police conducted searches within the station and discovered the suspected explosives and called in the bomb squad," the railway policeman told Reuters by phone.
An anti-terrorism court on Thursday sentenced four people to death for firing at a mosque in Rawalpindi, killing 11 worshippers and injuring 14. 
Intelligence agents raided an Afghan refugee camp on the outskirts of Peshawar and arrested two alleged Islamic militants, a security official said on Thursday. It wasn't clear what prompted the authorities to raid the Jalozai camp, the official said, adding that they had been picked up late on Tuesday and were being questioned. Another government official confirmed the arrests but could offer no further details. On Wednesday, provincial Governor Syed Iftikhar Hussain Shah visited Wana to thank tribal elders for supporting the military in its operations against militants. Security officials believe that scores of Arabs and Central Asians are hiding in South Waziristan.
A US soldier serving in Iraq wants Tim Tams for Christmas and Prime Minister John Howard is keen to oblige. A caller to Melbourne radio 3AW told Mr Howard today she needed his help to get the treats to her sister's husband — an American soldier serving in Iraq. "We are just wanting some information as far as sending food parcels for Christmas ... he loves his Tim Tams," Leanne from Sydenham in Melbourne's north-west told radio 3AW. She said the family had been sending parcels to an address in Iraq but they were taking more than six weeks to get there. Mr Howard offered to help Leanne get the Australian snack to the soldier. "I guess we'd want the bloke's name and his unit ... that would be handy, and we'll see what we can do, we'll try to help," he said. Mr Howard said "thank you" to Australian forces serving in Iraq and that he would be sending them an official Christmas message.
Professor Zhao Huji, a North Korea specialist at the Central Party School in Beijing, said Thursday that North Korean generals and high-ranking officials are deserting the crisis-plagued state as a mirror of growing instability and its leader's waning authority. "These high-ranking defectors aren't leaving because of material want, but because these feel chaos within the Kim Jong-il regime... High-ranking administrators like military officials have visited China several times and are well connected there, and because they have money, they have many chances to defect to China," said Zhao.
The United Nations nuclear watchdog has agreed terms with Pakistan for putting questions to Abdul Qadeer Khan, the disgraced Pakistani scientist who ran a nuclear black market, the Financial Times said on Friday. Khan, once revered as the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb, has been under house arrest since he was identified early this year at the centre of a scandal involving transfers of weapons technology to Libya, Iran and North Korea. The UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is keen to untangle the web of proliferation that Khan oversaw, but Pakistan has previously restricted access to him. But IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei said his agency had agreed "modalities" with Pakistan that would allow it to ask Khan for information, according to the FT. "It's important for us to know who else got equipment and whether there are undeclared programmes," ElBaradei was quoted as saying. "It's a complicated issue," he added. "There are legal impediments so we have to work through governments involved, and governments have been quite cooperative."
An Israeli aircraft has fired a missile near the home of a Palestinian militant leader in the northern Gaza Strip, witnesses said. An Israeli Army spokeswoman confirmed an air strike in the town of Beit Lahiya. She said the target was used to make and store munitions. Local residents said the missile struck a trailer outside the home of 
