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2004-07-02 -Short Attention Span Theater-
Are you a neoconservative? Take this quiz to find out.
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Posted by Dragon Fly 2004-07-02 6:54:18 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Seems I am a Realist.
Posted by Raptor 2004-07-02 8:04:21 AM||   2004-07-02 8:04:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I just thought it was fun. I place no real weight on the results. My philosophy: Bad people should go away. Far away.
Posted by Dragon Fly  2004-07-02 8:16:34 AM||   2004-07-02 8:16:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Realist.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-07-02 8:31:32 AM||   2004-07-02 8:31:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 neocon here
Posted by djohn66 2004-07-02 8:45:55 AM||   2004-07-02 8:45:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Neocon.
Posted by .com 2004-07-02 8:57:05 AM||   2004-07-02 8:57:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Neocon.
Posted by Dave D. 2004-07-02 9:07:20 AM||   2004-07-02 9:07:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Neocon, and proud of it.
Posted by Mike  2004-07-02 9:08:32 AM||   2004-07-02 9:08:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 mine said Asshole.... damn
Posted by Frank G  2004-07-02 9:29:37 AM||   2004-07-02 9:29:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 I'm an Infidel and damn proud of it.
Posted by Bill Nelson  2004-07-02 9:32:23 AM||   2004-07-02 9:32:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Neocon.
Posted by docob 2004-07-02 9:34:13 AM||   2004-07-02 9:34:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Realist. But I already knew that.
Posted by Rafael 2004-07-02 9:42:30 AM||   2004-07-02 9:42:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Mine said FOAD, neocon asshole!
Posted by badanov  2004-07-02 9:44:33 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-07-02 9:44:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 guess what folks - i came out a neo-con - there are at least one or two I answered in a non neocon or soft neocon way, but that didnt matter. Of course there were no questions about domestic policy, and the only one about a Spefic region of the world other than the middle east was about China. So it was the issues on which im closest to neocon.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-02 9:45:29 AM||   2004-07-02 9:45:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 actually, same as Badanov: Neocon, but an asshole about it
Posted by Frank G  2004-07-02 9:48:22 AM||   2004-07-02 9:48:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 mine said knuckle-dragger.

Actually, it said I'm a Realist, however, when I read the description of Isolationists I feel identify with that more.
Posted by Jarhead 2004-07-02 9:49:21 AM||   2004-07-02 9:49:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 neo.

Liberalhawk, the last question addressed domestic issues, asking about how much we're spending in Iraq vs. in the US.
Posted by growler 2004-07-02 10:18:48 AM||   2004-07-02 10:18:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 g - that was only a how much attention to for vs domestic - it was basically looking to see how isolationist you are. I responded with the most aggressive-internationalist-hawkish of the four options (which i think makes sense NOW) and that probably put me further into the neocon area. Nothing on purely domestic issues.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-02 10:28:19 AM||   2004-07-02 10:28:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 I'm non-scientifically a realist. Who woulda thunk it. The difference between realist and NeoCon seems to be the last question. (Yeah, I played around with the quiz to see what I'd get if I answered this one or that one differently.)

I actually got Isolationist based on my answer to the Korean Peninsula question. Not sure I agree with that assessment.
Posted by eLarson 2004-07-02 10:33:54 AM||   2004-07-02 10:33:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 I was hoping for bloodthirsty warmongering imperialist, but had to settle for neocon.
Posted by Laurence of the Rats  2004-07-02 10:45:30 AM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/]  2004-07-02 10:45:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 There are 10 questions. You can't have been labelled an isolationist or a realist based only on one of them.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-07-02 10:46:59 AM||   2004-07-02 10:46:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 I'm a realist. By the way, WTF is a "historical neo-con"?
Posted by BH 2004-07-02 10:52:51 AM||   2004-07-02 10:52:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Look's like I'm a neocon.
I'm just glad there was no math.
Posted by tu3031 2004-07-02 11:09:17 AM||   2004-07-02 11:09:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 Realist here, too! I'm with you, BH, WTF is a "historical neo-con"???? If that's not a complete oxymoron (although, moron fits with some of the Monitor's articles), I don't know what is! And they listed Reagan as a neo-con!
Posted by BA  2004-07-02 11:13:58 AM||   2004-07-02 11:13:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Strange thing for me was I am sure I am a realist, but it gave ye necon label. I have always--or so I thought--held to a vision of realpolitik.

My first ever FP book at uni was by John W. Spanier: Games Nations Play. This was first ever venture into FP and came out hard core.
Posted by Dragon Fly  2004-07-02 11:14:49 AM||   2004-07-02 11:14:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 Realist? Realist? That can't possibly be true. Maybe DF and I can trade labels.
Posted by Steve White  2004-07-02 11:31:35 AM||   2004-07-02 11:31:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 Steve I'll trade one Neocon for a couple of books.
Posted by Dragon Fly  2004-07-02 11:39:14 AM||   2004-07-02 11:39:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 I'm a proud neocon. My family is horrified.
Posted by Seafarious  2004-07-02 11:52:11 AM||   2004-07-02 11:52:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 Teddy & Ron, pretty good company.
Posted by 5442 2004-07-02 12:06:13 PM||   2004-07-02 12:06:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Army of Neocon.
Ah c'mon Aris, just take the friggin' quiz. Sheesh.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-07-02 12:46:08 PM||   2004-07-02 12:46:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Sea - That's called a character-builder, right? Lol!
Posted by .com 2004-07-02 12:48:18 PM||   2004-07-02 12:48:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Isolationist (wow). Can I work for Pat Buchanan now?
Posted by Raj  2004-07-02 1:00:01 PM|| [http://angrycyclist.blogspot.com]  2004-07-02 1:00:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 so how many caterogies were there? What else besides Neocon, realist, and isolationist? Was there a Wilsonian multilateralist possibility?
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-02 1:13:33 PM||   2004-07-02 1:13:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 I thought I'd be a realist or an isolationist. I scored isolationist, which is fine by me, Pat Buchanan notwithstanding. From the posts I've read here, I'm with Jarhead, and that's great company, I'd say.
Posted by rex 2004-07-02 1:18:07 PM||   2004-07-02 1:18:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Rex Mundi> Told you my result already at #3 --- "realist". Want me to give you all my answers so you can confirm by yourself?

Liberalhawk> It lists all the categories after you take the test. There's also the "liberal" category, besides the ones you mentioned.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-07-02 1:37:31 PM||   2004-07-02 1:37:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 wow! this is just confirm all i am believe in. this is say im realist. ima kepeing it real guys. evrything i am say is true.
Posted by muck4doo 2004-07-02 2:03:10 PM|| [http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]  2004-07-02 2:03:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 I'm with Laurence--I was hoping for warmongering bloodthirsty imperialist but will settle for neocon.
Woo Hoo!
Posted by Jen  2004-07-02 2:06:52 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-07-02 2:06:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Saw it after I posted...my bad. Realist - you're in good company with Jarhead and Mucky.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-07-02 2:08:24 PM||   2004-07-02 2:08:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Neocon.
Posted by Chris W.  2004-07-02 2:19:39 PM||   2004-07-02 2:19:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 I got neocon, only because the Imperialist Warmonger Party isn't recognized yet. One day...just you wait.
Posted by Silentbrick  2004-07-02 2:29:40 PM||   2004-07-02 2:29:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Wow, I wanted to be a neocon, but came up realist! Law school must've beat the neocon right out of me -- not. ; )

P.S. Jarhead, a realist is an isolationist who knows that, in order to stay safe here at home and be left alone, we have to go kick some butt and take some names.
Posted by cingold 2004-07-02 2:34:53 PM||   2004-07-02 2:34:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 So, Jen and Silent Brick, we could form a new party/cabal/conspiracy. Not sure what the details would be, but I'd insist on at least on "A Keg In Every Home" as one of the slogans. ;)
Posted by Laurence of the Rats  2004-07-02 2:39:01 PM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/]  2004-07-02 2:39:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Are you a neoconservative? Take this quiz to find out.

Yup.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-07-02 2:46:44 PM||   2004-07-02 2:46:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 i think a quick glance at the RB posters who this quiz ided as Neocons will show the problems associated with this term, or at least the way CSM has interpreted it.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-02 2:53:06 PM||   2004-07-02 2:53:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 404 Not Found
Posted by Half 2004-07-02 3:04:10 PM||   2004-07-02 3:04:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Increase your P e N i S by 7 Inches!
KLIK HERE!
Posted by JackAssFestival 2004-07-02 3:26:24 PM||   2004-07-02 3:26:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 Sorry, I was on the wrong page.
Posted by JackAssFestival 2004-07-02 3:26:54 PM||   2004-07-02 3:26:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 Realist.
Posted by Anonymous5089 2004-07-02 3:28:05 PM||   2004-07-02 3:28:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 Realist. It was tough; some of the questions were loaded to 25.
Posted by Korora  2004-07-02 3:33:22 PM|| [http://basementburrow.blogspot.com]  2004-07-02 3:33:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 Realist but to the right of Ghengis Khan
Posted by Mercutio 2004-07-02 4:00:58 PM||   2004-07-02 4:00:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 ok. now ima take names now on all you neo-cons here! dont you are know mike moore is say you are out to destroy the planet! now i am know who keep my eyes on. all you realist are ok. im one to and we are need to unite! for what i am not know but it is sound like very progressive idea.
Posted by muck4doo 2004-07-02 4:03:19 PM|| [http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]  2004-07-02 4:03:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 Wow! I'm an isolationist! Some of the questions did not have any answers I totally agreed with but I picked the ones that some aspects I agreed with.
Posted by Deacon Blues  2004-07-02 4:23:43 PM||   2004-07-02 4:23:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 just cos you read all em books now, mucks! ;).
Posted by rhodesiafever 2004-07-02 4:26:18 PM||   2004-07-02 4:26:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 i think a quick glance at the RB posters who this quiz ided as Neocons will show the problems associated with this term, or at least the way CSM has interpreted it.
Expand,LH, please. Your statement is too cryptic.

A couple of things I do not agree with re: neo-cons, is that the leaders of the movement-Kristol, Wolfowitz-do not see America as a unique nation of history, culture, values. Rather they view America as an idea-nation, specifically a broad brush stroke liberal democracy ideal, that needs to be propagated throughout the world. That strikes me as being rather irreverent about what America the nation is all about or the need to protect the essence of America. Neocons could care less about how America being attacked and torn apart from within example: by extreme liberalism/decadent values, multiculturalism instead of melting pot immigration, judicial activism/legislation from the bench, etc. To me it shows that neocons do not value America, the nation, but rather just the power of America to spread their brand of ideology through military might.

The other thing I do not like about the neocon movement is their deep seated contempt for the military and their arrogant disregard for the people in the military. Neocons are all in favor of a large defense budgets, but I think most of them see soldiers as mere chess pieces who are at their disposal to cure the world of its totalitarian ills, and not as ndividuals who love and are loved by others and who should not be thrown in harm's way solely to spread a particular ideology. From what I have seen thusfar, neocons expect others to make the ultimate sacrifice, but most US neocons have never served in the military themselves or in the National Guard. They would never put themselves in harm's way to spread ideology. I'm not sure I'd classify Colin Powell as a "neocon" probably more of a liberal, as suits the department he heads. Neocons are typically theoretician who never leave the office or classroom during the day but talk the bellicose talk at cocktail parties. I do not care much for that type of dishonesty.
Posted by rex 2004-07-02 4:26:38 PM||   2004-07-02 4:26:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 Expand,LH, please. Your statement is too cryptic.

i aint naming no friggin names and starting no frigging flamewar.

Look, people who disagree about very basic things, in terms of their philosophy and apporach to politics, are all included as Neocons. Its a very coarse distinction CSM is drawing.


Anyone from the most intense "Jacksonian Hardliners" (all you guys who want to be called imperialists or whatever) to people who are basically Wilsonian liberal hawks but who express even a modest skepticism about international institutions, are all lumped together.

and thats not just this quiz, its about the whole way the media use the neocon meme. Its very fluid.

Rex - all factions have their academics and such. Realists and so forth too.

As for values, one of the key breaks between the neocons like Kristol (father and son) and the left is precisely their advocacy of not only traditional values, but of religion in the public square. Their main difference with the paleocon right on that is emphasis - they want religion to support order and capitalism - theyre not willing to attack order and capitalism for religious values. You may not agree but classing them with values liberals is just silly. And as far as i can tell they generally strongly favor melting pot immigration - they do oppose paleocons who want little immigration overall. You really should read the Weekly Standard - youll find it far more conservative on most cultural issues than you realize - (and more conservative than ME, for that matter, which is one reason I DONT consider myself a neocon, but a liberal hawk)

As for the military, i see no evidence of disrespect for the military. There IS a battle between OSD and the US army over a number of issues - but the leader of that battle is Donald Rumsfeld himself, who is a veteran.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-02 4:42:08 PM||   2004-07-02 4:42:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 Let's just say that I'm not in the company of Woodrow and Jimmah. I test in the camp of Teddy and Ronnie. I don't know how I can be called a "neo" conservative as my mother remebers me telling off McGovern voters in the early 70's.
Posted by Super Hose 2004-07-02 5:06:12 PM||   2004-07-02 5:06:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#56 LH, no need to get testy. I was not looking for "friggin' names." I was just wondering what you meant by the phrase "will show the problems associated with this term." Thank you for the explanation that neocons have various hues just as traditional conservatives, or as CSM labels them "isolationists."

I read the Weekly Standard. I like some of the articles and writers better than others. I like Fred Barnes for the most part. I do not find much I like of Kristol, but perhaps his arrogrant condescending personality per FOX News predisposes me to not agreeing with anything he writes or says.

Donald Rumsfeld wants to re-design the military to make it more mobile and more high tech and perhaps as well change the army's power within the military. I'm not sure I'd classify him as a neocon. Rumsfeld's a hawk for sure and maybe Wolfowitz helps him talk fancy as the occasion demands, but I'm not sure Rumsfeld actually believes all the airy fairy ideology that Wolfowitz stands for.

As for the neocon dis-respect for America's history, traditions, culture, you do not have to go further than some of the ideas neocons spout.

I need to credit Lawrence Auster from his VFR website for the following examples from his article "The Neocons go Left":
David Brooks, in Bobos in Paradise, lauds the “bourgeois bohemian” life style and its indifference to moral truth.

David Frum, in The Seventies, says the Cultural Revolution has really not been that bad, and that in most ways our culture is in better shape than it was in the Fifties.

Francis Fukuyama, in The Great Disruption, pretends to seek ways to reverse the “Great Disruption” of the Cultural Revolution, but then admits that there’s no way to restore the most important single aspect of our disrupted culture—sexual morality and monogamy. Furthermore, Fukuyama makes it clear that this is just fine with him.

Fareed Zakaria of The National Interest, writing in The New Yorker, shockingly announces: “I’ll take Gomorrah” over those awful, repressive Fifties.

Clearly, these leading edge neocons have given up any idea of resisting the moral liberationism that now defines the dominant culture of America and the West. As the eager, sychophantic tone of their writings makes clear, they’ve decided to get along by going along. And now, in an apparent culmination of this neoconserservative betrayal, Dinesh D’Souza in his new book, What’s So Great About America, sets out to define America—and conservatism—in radical secular terms:

“America is a subversive idea,” he writes. “Indeed, it represents a new way to be human.” Americans once believed that human nature with its inherent rights proceeds from a higher truth that puts limits on human desire and the will to power. But now D’Souza boasts, in Romantic-Marxian terms, that America represents nothing less than “a new way to be human”—that it is America’s mission to bring about a transformation in the very structure of human nature. Rather than standing for permanent and higher truths about man, and thus maintaining a link with the long continuum of Western civilization and its moral traditions of restraint, America in D’Souza’s view signifies the denial that there are any permanent and higher truths about man. The universe, including human nature itself, is as we want to make it.
...It is hard to see any fundamental difference between D’Souza’s “new way to be human” and the ideology of radical personal liberation that has formed our dominant liberal culture. As Ilene Philipson wrote in the utopian leftist journal Tikkun in 1991, “every individual contains at the very core of his or her being a unique, irreducible self” that must be liberated

Posted by rex 2004-07-02 5:18:05 PM||   2004-07-02 5:18:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#57 Let's be a cabal, that sounds far more nefarious and we'll need a catchy name. Then we can divide up the world.
Posted by Silentbrick  2004-07-02 5:36:05 PM||   2004-07-02 5:36:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#58 rex - first i wouldnt call Zakharia a neocon, and im not sure about Fukiyama.

Second most of what you have there is either out of context quotes, or charecterizations unsupported by quotes. Ive read David Brooks, and he does like his bobos, but im sure he never said he likes indifference to moral truth.

Saying the cultural rev hasnt been that bad could mean he was saying that it didnt go as far as alarmists say - and the dissing of the fifties could include both references to stuff in the '50s that WAS bad, like segregation, or could be a realistic acknowledgement that the era wasnt all that pure - plenty of drinking, adultery, etc. Its hard to now without actual quotes, just charecterizations by a hostile writer.

As for America being a subversive idea, well thats straight out of Jefferson. Its a very profoundly American way of thinking for two hundred years. And, for that matter, a way of thinking that drives the REAL multiculties and cultural lefties batty.

Yup, theyre sons of the Enlightenment. Which sets them against BOTH the lefties who would write off the enlightenment as a Western Imperialist thingy, and those who look back fondly on a a pre_enlightenment world view, and whatever was left of it in the US circa 1950. If you want a conservatisim that ISNT pro Enlightenment, that isnt Jeffersonian, the Neocons aint your guys. Period. But to call them cultural lefties for that is misleading, since it groups them with their bitterest enemies.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-07-02 5:50:09 PM||   2004-07-02 5:50:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#59 But to call them cultural lefties for that is misleading, since it groups them with their bitterest enemies.
Say what? Neocons are former liberals who just woke up to the possibilities of using military might to spread ideology. Liberals can't see any use for the military and instaed just think money will bring peace and change in the world. There is no difference between liberals and neocons re: preserving American culture,history, or Judeo-Christian values. Kristol's dad,Irving, the father of neoconservative movement, was a Marxist bohemian kind of guy.
"A neoconservative is a liberal who's been mugged by reality. A neoliberal is a liberal who's been mugged by reality but has refused to press charges."- Irving Kristol
"American power should be used not just in the defense of American interests but for the promotion of American principles." - William Kristol
"Republicans are good at wielding power, but they're not so wonderful when it comes to the more idealistic motives of liberal internationalism. The Democrats are better at liberal internationalism, but they're not so good at wielding power. I would say that if there were a Joe Lieberman/John McCain party, I'm in the Joe Lieberman/John McCain party." - Robert Kagan
The use of military might is the only thing that divides liberals from neocons. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Posted by rex 2004-07-02 6:11:01 PM||   2004-07-02 6:11:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#60 ok im feel lost now. rex and lib hawk talking to deep for me. but im know im read on em hippie blog that origanal neo-cons were dems and are now repubs. or im think somthink like that.

go idealists!
Posted by muck4doo 2004-07-02 6:35:14 PM|| [http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]  2004-07-02 6:35:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#61 goddamit!

i am mean realist.

typo.
Posted by muck4doo 2004-07-02 6:52:27 PM|| [http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]  2004-07-02 6:52:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#62 Neocon here. Good company with Ronnie and Teddy.
Posted by Sgt.DT  2004-07-02 6:57:37 PM||   2004-07-02 6:57:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#63 Fuck all polls. If you enjoyed this one, you are lost.
Posted by Zpaz  2004-07-02 8:19:45 PM||   2004-07-02 8:19:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#64 Thanks Rex & Rex Mundi.

Cingold, don't misunderstand me - I'm a quasi-isolationist/realist not a pacifist. I'm a big fan of the way we pummeled Iraq, it was long overdue for 17 violations of a cease-fire written in the blood of 300 Americans in 1991. I wasn't against 'Nam at all but I was against how we fought that war. Should've let the Generals do their job instead of hamstringing them. My chosen profession bars me from any pacifistic pansie-assed flowery outlook of the world, as far as I'm concerned Ghandi should of ate a few steaks.

I do believe there is a way in maintaining good trade relations while bringing troops (not including those in Iraq/Afghan) back home to police our southern border. Trust me, as a guy who goes to a lot these ungrateful countries - let'em fend for themselves (Skor, Germany, France, Okinawa, Japan, etc.) I've also said this before - pull out of the UN/NATO and the rest of that crap along w/pulling our aid from a lot of the same. I'd free trade w/anyone who is on the level and fair w/us. I'd also like to see a huge push for alternative energy in order minimize our dealings w/the ME. That region has been the arm pit of the world for a long time and the sooner we cut ties w/those *ssholes the better. Don't get me wrong, if we were ever attacked by any terrorist in the future, I hope we hunt them down, kill them, and take out any regime harboring them - w/extreme prejudice.
Posted by Jarhead 2004-07-02 9:34:25 PM||   2004-07-02 9:34:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#65 Mine said I'm drunk. I think I'm flattered.
Posted by JerseyMike 2004-07-02 9:37:42 PM||   2004-07-02 9:37:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#66 Realist. But I'm a realist who will happily offer support to the neocon program.
Posted by Lone Ranger 2004-07-02 10:12:20 PM||   2004-07-02 10:12:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#67 Has the B Ark left, yet? Tell 'em to hang on, got at least one more for 'em.
Posted by .com 2004-07-02 11:03:53 PM||   2004-07-02 11:03:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#68 I must've been drinking more than I thought, because how could I be labeled a "liberal" (please don't hunt me down) when I answered "we should hunt down and kill all terrorists" question? I figured I'd come up more Isolationsist than anything, because "cynical" wasn't an option. I'm going to have to take this quiz sober in the morning...
Posted by nada 2004-07-02 11:06:17 PM||   2004-07-02 11:06:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#69 "realist" - but change my stance on Israel and I'm a neocon.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-07-02 11:34:25 PM||   2004-07-02 11:34:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#70 Golly, Jarhead -- a Marine who isn't a pacifist? Where the heck did that come from???
Posted by trailing wife 2004-07-03 12:41:05 AM||   2004-07-03 12:41:05 AM|| Front Page Top

12:05 Sakina A. Walsh
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