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Yasser dumps his house guests
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-Short Attention Span Theater-
Cheney Makes Hu An Offer He Can?t Refuse...
...From marmot.blogs.com ...

White House Godfather made Hu Jintao an offer he couldn?t refuse?

According to the Jo Gap-je, the chief editor of the Chosun Ilbo?s Monthly Chosun Magazine, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney apparently laid down the law to the Chinese during his visit to Beijing. More specifically, he is said to have told Chinese leaders, " If China cannot prevent North Korea from arming itself with nuclear weapons, the United States, too, cannot prevent Taiwan and Japan from arming themselves with nuclear weapons." Ouch! Anyway, Jo claims he got his info from an American intelligence source. He also mentioned that the Chinese owe the Americans; apparently, Beijing twice asked Washington -- once during the Reagan administration and once during Bush Sr.?s -- to put the squeeze on Taipei?s nuclear weapons programs. Taiwan can produce nukes within a couple of months, and as a non-party to the NPT, it could do so without any international legal barriers whatsoever. Anyway, this apparently explains China?s sudden request that Kim visit Beijing, and there?s a possibility that Pyongyang -- now under intense Chinese pressure -- may soon make a "dramatic declaration" much like Libya?s.

Anyway, I don?t know what to make of this. Could be bullshit, but it might not be. I certainly hope it?s true, because I had given up all hope that any American leader would explain things so frankly to China.

...And may we assume otherwise they?ll be hearing from Luca Brazzi?..

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 04/22/2004 12:32:11 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Don't they usually have Baker deliver that message?
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/23/2004 1:05 Comments || Top||

#2  " If China cannot prevent North Korea from arming itself with nuclear weapons, the United States, too, cannot prevent Taiwan and Japan from arming themselves with nuclear weapons."

This sort of policy statement cuts across all partisan and religious lines. It is bald-faced and clearly declared opposition to any lingering sponsorship of rouge nations as political tinderboxes being held in ominous abeyance.

Such wording conveys a degree of candor that is refreshingly similar to Armitage's recent proctologic dismissal of a certain Arab news reporter.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/23/2004 4:16 Comments || Top||


Arabia
Saudis Outraged by Riyadh Car Bombing
EFL:
Saudi Arabia's top cleric said on Thursday the people behind a suicide car bombing in Riyadh would "burn in hell" for killing innocent Muslims in the attack, which a militant group linked to al Qaeda said it carried out.
How soon can they start?
"God has promised wrath, damnation, painful torture and an eternity burning in hell for he who deliberately kills a Muslim... Unjustly killing a Muslim is the gravest crime which cannot be atoned," said the kingdom's highest religious authority, Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdulaziz bin Abdullah al-Sheikh. "I tell all Muslims that this act is a sin, it is one of the greatest sins," he said in a statement. "Aiding, calling for, or facilitating the murder of a Muslim is tantamount to involvement in murder and all who do so will be thrown by God into the flames of hell, for so dear is the sanctity of Muslim blood."
"Unless they're working with infidels, in which case it's your duty to kill them."
Saudi Arabia, a key U.S. ally and the birthplace of Islam, has been locked in a bitter conflict with militants linked to al Qaeda which has vowed to fight the United States and "ungodly" Saudi rulers it says are U.S. agents. In its claim, Al Haramain Brigades said it followed the path of bin Laden and al Qaeda against the Saudi authorities.
But there's no clear link between them, even though they say they are following him, see.
"This bombing completely destroyed the targeted building and killed and injured dozens of soldiers and commanders of the criminal, apostate mechanism which is fighting God, his prophet and the faithful," the group said in a statement published on two Islamist Web sites. "This operation which broke your backs, you tyrants, is but one shade of the many shades of pain which we will make you taste, God willing, and revenge by bombings and assassinations and other means shall not stop," it added.
Islamic Smackdown IV- Desert Death Duel. Popcorn, anyone?
Saudi dailies condemned the attack as ultimate betrayal of the country, showing pictures of the wounded and the wrecked building. "Yesterday's terrorist operation exposed the falseness of their (militants') slogans. They started by targeting civilians and today they are moving to betray the guardians of national security who are all Muslim citizens," al-Watan said.
"How dare they attack the Master Race!"
It's an easy mistake to make.
Some analysts have said public support for militants had fallen from a silent but substantial majority in the 1990s when bombers struck U.S. military targets in the Gulf state, to a small minority after last year's attacks killed mostly Arabs. "This is the epitome of betrayal and disavowal of the principles of religion, humanity and nationalism," al-Riyadh said.
Killing Americans = Good. Killing Saudis = Bad. Tap...nope.
Saudis on the streets of the capital expressed shock at the devastating attack. "Those are criminals and I spurn everything these people believe in whatever it may be," said Nasser Huweishel, a trader.
"I certainly hope they receive a very stern talking to, just like last time..."
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 10:12:46 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  scew the arab world - it is ok to kill infidels but it is not when a muslim is killed. if the west espoused this line of thought serbs would still be killing, maiming and raping muslims in the former yugo.....

Posted by: Dan || 04/22/2004 10:49 Comments || Top||

#2  "for so dear is the sanctity of Muslim blood"

except when shed by our neighbor Saddam, or by Syria, in Hama , or....

F*&king hyprocritical idjits
Posted by: Frank G || 04/22/2004 10:53 Comments || Top||

#3  Can you imagine the rage if an American said some shit like this.Screw these assholes.And kiss my ass antiwar!These people need a JDAM enima
Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 11:14 Comments || Top||

#4  Saudi Arabia, a key U.S. ally and the birthplace of Islam, has been locked in a bitter conflict with militants linked to al Qaeda which has vowed to fight the United States and "ungodly" Saudi rulers it says are U.S. agents.

"Al-Qaida - Your Wahhabi dollars and support at work"
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/22/2004 11:33 Comments || Top||

#5  Why is it OK for Saudi executioners to behead Muslim opponents of the Saudi Royal family?
Why is it OK for Saudi fathers to drown Muslim daughters who dishonor their families?
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 04/22/2004 12:11 Comments || Top||

#6  Mike, it's OK because it's all fake. Make it up as you go along. Who's to know. sadr is as correct as any mullah as any mullah is as correct as the next or the next. It's fakeness.

Posted by: Lucky || 04/22/2004 12:50 Comments || Top||

#7  This warms my nasty old heart. As long as the boomers were killing mere infidels, Nayef's response was "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" and we received lots of pointless Warden Message emails. Then they whacked some Muslims - mostly Lebanese - in Riyadh (May 2003) and Arabs decried the "inhumanity" of Muslim on Muslim - even if it was a brothel compound. Nayef's Boyz chased "militants" all over and had both running battles and sieges of houses and "farms" with huge weapons caches - and some Bad Guys always got away. Big Al's South Side Chicago. Keystone Cops, Saudi-style. And now, with the US military gone and many of the ExPats gone - what OBL demanded - it's Saudi on Saudi. Dire, indeed. Big Wheel turns. Eat shit and die, 'tards. This is your creation so it's only apropos.

I left the Magic Kingdom one year ago tomorrow. Somewhere between the Saudi and Bahrani stations on the causeway 16 Tons were lifted from my shoulders.

Tomorrow I shall have gun sex and ululate. And order an Italian Sausage pizza. And watch a T&A cable movie. And smile.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 13:20 Comments || Top||

#8  Jeeez.... Mr. Guy your outlike is dark these past few days. I expect things to lighten up a bit once the 3rd holiest site settles down.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 13:21 Comments || Top||

#9  Yes, I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED that this happens here....must be Bush's fault. Hey, wait a minute, I thought we honored binny's request to leave the arab "continent". And I thought he just hated us (whaaaaa!). BTW, notice the muftis comment...."it is one of the greatest sins..." yeah, behind killing Jews, Christians, kids, neighbors, your children and on and on.
Posted by: BA || 04/22/2004 13:35 Comments || Top||

#10  Saudi Arabia's top cleric said on Thursday the people behind a suicide car bombing in Riyadh would "burn in hell" for killing innocent Muslims in the attack ...

Except those being slaughtered in Iraq by Iraqis.

Saudi dailies condemned the attack as ultimate betrayal of the country ...

Yeah, you're not supposed to attack those who finance you. You, you ... traitors!
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 20:03 Comments || Top||


Saudi militant group claims Riyadh bombing
A Saudi militant group claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing that targeted a building housing security forces in the capital Riyadh, killing at least four people and wounding 148 others.
"We dun it, and we're proud of it!"
A statement by a group calling itself Al Haramain Brigades, published by at least two Islamist Web sites, said the attack targeted special security and anti-terrorism units in the kingdom.
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 9:25:14 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Good to see somebody step up and take credit. All is normal. Muslims intent on anounceing their presence with authority.

Earth Day, think I'll fire up the Z28 today. The smell of octane and the breathing of an LT1.
Posted by: Lucky || 04/22/2004 11:54 Comments || Top||

#2  What? A Zed 28? Yikes! Go Lucky!
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 13:22 Comments || Top||


Yemen Arrests Suspect in USS Cole Bombing
Security forces have arrested a Yemeni man suspected of involvement in the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole that killed 17 American sailors, a security official said Thursday.
This makes it, what, about a third of the entire population that has been arrested for bombing the Cole? Oh, I forgot, they arrested each guy multiple times.
The official said the man played a major role in the attack that saw two suicide bombers ram an explosives-laden boat into the destroyer in the harbor of Aden. The man was identified only by his surname, al-Nagar. It was not immediately clear what his exact role was in the Oct. 12, 2000, attack. Al-Nagar was arrested earlier this month in a house in Lawdar. He alleged that al-Nagar was a middleman between the suicide bombers and al-Qaida sympathizers in the town of Bouraiga who helped acquire the boat used in the attack. Police arrested two other wanted al-Qaida militants from Yemen in the same town this month. Last month, Yemeni forces recaptured 10 militants suspected of involvement in the Cole bombing following their escape from prison last year.
Have they checked to see if they're still in jail?
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 9:01:55 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Poor tactics, should have over run the crew of the Cole.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:14 Comments || Top||


‘It Was Really Scary’
“The bomb blast shook the whole apartment and I thought someone was throwing stones at my kitchen,” said Chandra Subramaniam, a housewife. She was cooking when the explosion occurred and she immediately switched off the airconditioner and contacted her husband who works for a major bank and who advised her to stay calm. At the time of the explosion, only mothers and children were at home. In one apartment building, the mothers donned their abayas to come out of the building with their children in fear of the consequences of the explosion. The building guard told them there was nothing to be alarmed about since the explosion had taken place far away. “The sirens of the police cars, ambulances and the fire brigade caused panic among the women at home,” said one housewife.

Shamila Aboosally who was in hospital felt that someone had suddenly moved her bed. When she opened her eyes, there was no one in her room. When she peeped out the window, she saw plumes of smoke from the blast. Muhammad Mackeen, who works for Riyadh Bank, told Arab News that he was at a nearby Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet when the explosion took place. He heard the explosion and saw the security officials and firefighters moving toward the site of the blast. In another incident, more than 60 women of an Asian association who were having lunch at a restaurant feared the roof was falling when they heard the blast. “It was a thorough shakeup; it was really frightening when we saw the helicopters hovering and heard the ambulances with their screaming sirens,” said Qudsia Mirza, a guest at the luncheon party.

Manel Gamage, who was watching TV at home, said she suddenly saw the windows and doors shaking. She said she did not know what to do since neither her children nor her husband were at home. She switched on the BBC and learned there had been an explosion. Muhammad Illyas, who works at the headquarters of Samba Financial Group, said everyone in the building at the time felt the blast but fortunately, the building was not damaged. Another housewife who was awakened by the blast telephoned her husband to complain that her airconditioner had fallen down. An Egyptian housewife who came outside with her two children from their upstairs apartment found the gate damaged and window panes falling all around. “There was smoke all over and I saw the buildings had been badly damaged,” she said.
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:48 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hahaha, that one guy was at Kentucky Fried Chicken! Cracks my ass up!
Posted by: AllahHateMe || 04/22/2004 15:31 Comments || Top||


‘God Will Help Us Defeat These Terrorists’
Citizens and expatriates across the country strongly condemned yesterday’s suicide car bomb blast in the capital and called for concerted efforts to root out terrorism. A Saudi businessman in Jeddah, who identified himself as Muhammad, condemned the “dastardly and cowardly” acts and hoped that security would be further improved and those guilty of masterminding such attacks would be apprehended. “God will help us defeat these people,” he said.
Not if you don't help...
Abdullah Al-Toimi, a 22-year-old student, said: “This is shocking. It isn’t safe anymore to go out. We’re all apprehensive. What if they target a shopping mall? These guys are not targeting foreigners but they are targeting Saudi Arabia.”
"If they were targeting foreigners we wouldn't mind so much..."
Also in Jeddah, British expatriate Carole Jones, condemning the blast, said: “This is terrible. They are killing poor security personnel. It’s Arabs killing Arabs. Why?” Her husband Stephen echoed her sentiments: “The security forces are doing a good job so the terrorists are trying to get revenge. The attacks have shifted from being religious to being political. We Westerners, appreciate the sacrifices the security forces are making to protect us. We hope the government is taking care of their dependents.”

People in the Eastern Province also expressed shock and horror and many admitted to being nervous. Housing compounds are guarded by armored vehicles and National Guard personnel but residents admit that they feel uneasy when such incidents occur. “If I did not have faith in the present security arrangements, then I would not have stayed here and risked my family’s lives. But when we hear reports of terror attacks, we are scared to death,” said Ralph.

A Saudi Aramco employee from Texas says that he is not worried in the Aramco compound. “But when we go to supermarkets or any other public place, we are concerned and a bit wary,” he added. Kathy, a British housewife living in a housing compound in Alkhobar, said the Riyadh blast has made her nervous and she was worried for her husband who travels frequently to Riyadh and Jeddah. “It is not that we don’t have confidence in Saudi security arrangements but these terrorists are not even sparing their own people. They can strike anywhere and this is very scary. It is not a question of Westerners or Asians but a blind attack against humanity.”

Brad Gilbert, an American working in Ras Tanura, said: “I think more Saudis have been victims than Westerners.” In Riyadh, Mariano Dumia of the Philippine Embassy said he had been unable to determine whether there were any Filipino victims of yesterday’s blast. “We tried to go to the scene but the main roads leading to it were blocked. We also checked with Al-Shumaysi Hospital. I hope that no Filipino was among the victims.” Ibrahim Sahib Ansar, Sri Lankan ambassador, said there was no report of a Sri Lankan victim of the blast.

Cris Agunos, a credit analyst with Saudi British Bank in the capital, said: “As long as I’m not affected, I’ll stay in the Kingdom. This is nothing compared to when I was in Alkhobar during the Gulf War in 1991.” A Filipino banker with Arab National Bank, Abner Macapagal, said they had been shaken by the impact of the blast. “Our office is just 3 km away. We were on the sixth floor and it felt like we were having an earthquake. The first thing that came to mind was fear. It was terrible,” Macapagal added.
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:48 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Ah, yes! Like someone said yesterday, the proverbial 1,000 pound chicken has come home to roost! Ain't it a bi#ch!
Posted by: BA || 04/22/2004 9:42 Comments || Top||

#2  It's what is termed a "Wake Up Call"
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 11:47 Comments || Top||

#3  They get regular wakeup calls. They keep hitting the snooze button.
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 17:07 Comments || Top||

#4  Maybe if al Qaeda kills enough Muslims, the surviving Muslims may find something valuable in common with us infidels.
Posted by: Tresho || 04/22/2004 17:41 Comments || Top||

#5  Nah, they'll just be eternally puzzled as to why it all happened, like those genteel English ladies in Singapore when the Japanese captured it.
Posted by: Pappy || 04/22/2004 22:48 Comments || Top||


Attack Overshadows Conference on Terrorism and Islam
The blast that destroyed a security forces building killing and injuring many people yesterday overshadowed the deliberations of the conference on terrorism and Islam being held at Imam Muhammad ibn Saud Islamic University here. The conference was inaugurated by Crown Prince Abdullah, deputy premier and commander of the National Guard, on Tuesday. The panel of speakers attending the event condemned the attack and underlined the Kingdom’s resolve to curb terrorism in all its manifestations. “The car bomb suicide attack has, in fact, provided an impetus to stand united and fight all forms of terrorism on our soil,” said Ahmad ibn Muhammad Al-Jomaih, a spokesman at the conference. “There is no plan to end the conference abruptly following the bombing,” he said.

Sources said the university authorities and the Saudi officials had considered wrapping up the conference because of security concerns. Ahmed called that the rumor “baseless and unfounded.” However, security around the university and roads leading to it was stepped up following the explosion. The blast was strongly condemned by all participants. “Terrorists would not find any safe haven within Saudi Arabia, as they would be targeted with relentless consistency until the Kingdom is purged of such evil characters,” said one Saudi speaker.

Yesterday’s session involved more than 40 speakers, who made presentations on the stand of Islam on terrorism, violence and extremism. Over 150 delegates including Education Ministry officials, experts, researchers and faculty members from Europe, the US, Australia, Japan and India are taking part in the event. Dr. Khaled ibn Ibrahim Al-Awwad, deputy minister of education, said there was an urgent need to define the term “terrorism”. Many speakers said the US and Israel had to realize that their practices also constitute terrorism as far as the political definition of the term “terrorism” was concerned.
That's the hitch, ain't it? When it's Islamic pinwits doing all the booming and shooting, it's pretty hard to blame non-Islamists. But they'll keep trying...
Dr. Al-Awwad said the conference had to clarify misconceptions about Islam and terrorism. He and other speakers said the term “terrorism”, while quite clear to Muslims, was still ambiguous to the Westerners — as was evident from the contradictory definitions presented by institutions there. Dr. Muhammad ibn Ali Al-Herfy, a Saudi academic, said the definition of the term “terrorism” became an issue after Sept. 11, 2001. “The main problem is that American policymakers have defined this term to suit their ideologies, while at the same time trying to force or impose on other people what they say,” said Dr. Al-Herfy adding that “defining terrorism is more difficult today than fighting it.”
You've got to admire that ability to masturbate without using the hands, I guess...
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:46 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Heard this argument before,it was buls$%t then and it is now.

Terrorisiam:To induce terror in a populace threw the use of firearms,explosives,poisions or other means in order to cause fear,intimidation,or physical harm to a population.

Seems pretty straight forward and simple to me.
Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 21:25 Comments || Top||

#2  The blast that destroyed a security forces building killing and injuring many people yesterday overshadowed the deliberations of the conference on terrorism and Islam being held at Imam Muhammad ibn Saud Islamic University here.

Whoa! Some sort of bombing disrupted a Saudi conference on terrorism? Such a conincidence is utterly inconceivable!
Posted by: Zenster || 04/23/2004 4:45 Comments || Top||


Blast Comes After US Warning
The latest terrorist attack in Riyadh came just days after the US Embassy issued a warning of a possible terrorist attack in the Kingdom. It said it had “credible” information that terrorist groups might be planning attacks. As a consequence it decided to send non-essential staff and their families back to the US.
That half dozen or so cars full of dynamite might have tipped the Soddies without our help, if they were paying attention...
This is not the first time that US has issued terror warnings that turned out to be all too true. Just two days before the attack on the Al-Muhaya housing compound in Riyadh on Nov. 9 in which 18 people died, the US shut its diplomatic missions in the country, based on received intelligence of a terror threat.

Washington’s intelligence abilities have given the conspiracy theorists a field day, with some even trying to lay the blame on the CIA. “How is it that each time the United States warns of a terrorist attack, a bomb blast follows?” asked Mahmoud Ibrahim, an Egyptian hotel employee in Jeddah. “Does the United States issue a warning after receiving intelligence reports or is it that terrorists make it a point to bomb a place after such warnings are issued?” asked Abdul Rahman Tijani, a Sudanese hospital technician. “Such things seem to be happening repeatedly,” a South African said.

In fact, the conspiracy theory is more fantasy than reality. The alert six days ago was just the latest in a string issued by the US as well as other Western governments to citizens living in or visiting the Kingdom. There have been far more than there have been attacks — so many that the significance of such warnings has all but been lost on many Western expats. The day after the alert, a group of 30 Americans flying to the Kingdom turned back at Cairo on the instructions of their company, but they seemed an exception. Other Americans on the same Paris-Cairo-Jeddah flight flew on in.
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:45 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  And it only took 3 paragraphs before the jihadis got to the CIA conspiracy theories! I'm surprised it wasn't in the first paragraph or headline!
Posted by: BA || 04/22/2004 13:15 Comments || Top||


Investigators Scour Saudi Bombing Site
Those responsible for Saudi Arabia's latest suicide attack will be "burned in hell," the kingdom's top cleric said Thursday, as investigators searched for clues to the deadly bombing.
"They'll fry like oysters! They'll be incinerated like marshmallows at a Cub Scout outing!"
Five people, including two senior police officers and an 11-year-old girl, were killed along with the suicide bomber in Wednesday's attack on the administrative building of the General Security, the Interior Ministry said. It said 148 people were injured. A shadowy Islamic extremist group, the purportedly al-Qaida inspired al-Haramin Brigades, released a statement on at least two Islamic Web sites claiming responsibility for the attack. The authenticity of the statement could not be verified. Grand Mufti Abdul-Aziz al-Sheik, the kingdom's highest religious authority, condemned the attack "as one of the greatest sins."

"God revealed the criminality of this wayward group, which harms Islam and the nation," he said in a statement carried by the official Saudi Press Agency. "Whoever kills an (Islamic) believer on purpose will be punished by being burned in hell, punished by God's anger and will be cursed and suffer great pain." Saudi officials said the bombing bore the hallmark of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network, which was blamed for suicide attacks in May and November 2003 in Riyadh that killed 51 people. Saudi Arabia cracked down hard on militants after those attacks.
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:30 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


China-Japan-Koreas
Many casualties in NK train crash
Thursday, April 22, 2004 Posted: 12:13 PM EDT (1613 GMT)

Looks like Iran sold North Korea the plans for their own train bomb.

(CNN) -- Two trains carrying flammable materials have exploded in a North Korean train station, leaving a large number of casualties, South Korean media reported. North Korea declared a state of emergency after Thursday’s explosion, The Associated Press quoted South Korea’s Yonhap news agency as reporting.

Witnesses said the explosion was the result of a collision between the trains at Ryongchon station, South Korean media reported. Just hours earlier, North Korean leader Kim Jong Il had passed through the station on a return trip from China, South Korean news network YTN said.
Darn it! Missed him by that much, Chief.
Ryongchon is northwest of the North Korean capital Pyongyang and about 50 kilometers (31 miles) south of the country’s border with China. Yonhap, quoting unidentified sources in the Chinese city of Dandong, said the trains were carrying oil and/or liquefied petroleum gas. The incident happened about 1 p.m. local time, Yonhap said.

"The area around Ryongchon station has turned into ruins as if it were bombarded," Yonhap quoted witnesses as saying, AP said. "Debris from the explosion soared high into the sky and drifted to Sinuju," a North Korean town on the border with China, AP quoted the agency as saying. Yonhap’s report of the state-of-emergency declaration gave no details. Yonhap said officials of the secretive North Korean government had put in place a "type of state of emergency" around the town of Ryongchon near the Chinese border.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 2:35:04 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Duplicate post, please see:

Report: Thousands Dead or Injured in N.Korea Rail Blast
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 14:42 Comments || Top||

#2  Too bad we will be the ones that will send them aid
Posted by: smokeysinse || 04/22/2004 18:06 Comments || Top||


Cheney: China, curb your dog!
The Marmot’s (Final) Hole, a Korean blog reports the following from the Korean press:

According to the Jo Gap-je, the chief editor of the Chosun Ilbo’s Monthly Chosun Magazine, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney apparently laid down the law to the Chinese during his visit to Beijing. More specifically, he is said to have told Chinese leaders, "If China cannot prevent North Korea from arming itself with nuclear weapons, the United States, too, cannot prevent Taiwan and Japan from arming themselves with nuclear weapons.

This could explain Kim being summoned to Beijing and, given his probable conduct there, the explosive exclamation point to his rail journey.
Posted by: RWV || 04/22/2004 12:12:38 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  DUPLICATE POST - See Also
"Cheney lays it on China"
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 13:46 Comments || Top||


Report: Thousands Dead or Injured in N.Korea Rail Blast
EFL
Up to 3,000 people were killed or injured when two trains loaded with fuel collided and exploded at a North Korean station Thursday, hours after leader Kim Jong-il had passed through, South Korea’s YTN television said.
I thought Kimmie traveled by choo-choo because it’s safer.
YTN quoted witnesses in its report while South Korea’s Yonhap news agency, which spoke of widespread destruction, also said there were thousands of casualties. Neither Yonhap nor YTN gave a breakdown of deaths and injuries. Yonhap quoted sources in the Chinese city of Dandong that borders the North as saying the explosion occurred around 1 p.m. -- nine hours after Kim’s special train was reported to have passed on its way back to Pyongyang after a visit to China. "The station was destroyed as if hit by a bombardment and debris flew high into the sky," Yonhap said, quoting the unidentified Chinese sources.
Bombardment, now there’s an idea.
The sources said cargo trains carrying gasoline and liquefied petroleum gas collided at Ryonchon station 30 miles south of the border. Yonhap also quoted a senior Defense Ministry official as saying the South’s military -- which eavesdrops on North Korea -- had heard about the blast through "intelligence channels directed against the North." There was no immediate suggestion the blast was anything other than an accident. But the explosion came after Kim met China’s new leadership during a rare foreign visit to discuss the North’s nuclear weapons plans and tentative economic reforms. North Korea appears to have cut international telephone lines to the area to prevent information about the explosion getting out, Yonhap added. The North appears to have declared a type of emergency in the area.
Did not know they had many international phone lines.
Yonhap said the sources said people in Dandong were concerned their friends or relatives could have been caught up on the explosion. Traders from both sides criss-cross the border area. A railway worker on the Chinese side of the Dandong border crossing told Reuters he had not heard of a blast and had seen no signs of any emergency effort under way. "The closest station to here in North Korea is in Sinuiju (on the border), and I would have heard it. But I didn’t hear anything," a chinese security official he said by telephone.
So maybe it did not happen.
North Korea’s official media broke their silence on Kim’s three-day trip to Beijing Thursday -- strongly suggesting Kim was safely back in Pyongyang -- but did not mention the explosion. Kim does not travel by air when he does venture outside North Korea. Residents in Pyongyang said by telephone there was nothing unusual in the capital. North Korean television was broadcasting military songs and music -- standard evening fare.
The best way to ensure citizens to not regret being too poor to have a teevee.
Posted by: JAB || 04/22/2004 12:49:49 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Ouch. Since this is a fuel shipment, it's gotta HURT!

It's 30 miles from the border, which is a looooong way for sound to reach.
Posted by: Ptah || 04/22/2004 13:16 Comments || Top||

#2  How often do trains collide killing thousands? Happened in Iran a while back, too. I think it was just hundreds there. This kind of thing always makes my spidey senses tingle, though they may need recalibrating.
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 04/22/2004 13:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Foxnews is reporting that Kim Jong was passing near 2 hours earlier and it was a possible assination. Also heard news a car bomb were also mentioned.
Posted by: CobraCommander || 04/22/2004 13:43 Comments || Top||

#4  fix: 9 hours earlier, doesn't sound like an attempt on his life to me
Posted by: CobraCommander || 04/22/2004 13:46 Comments || Top||

#5  Cobra - Either that or North Korean Watches have a problem.

Synchronize your watches is a dicey proposition.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 13:49 Comments || Top||

#6  The North appears to have declared a type of emergency in the area.

A type of emergency : We sorta kinda got a problem here. There are sorta lots of people dead, and we can't tell anyone, so we have a type of emergency, which we can't say is an emergency, but it is a kinda sorta emergency of a particular type.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 13:52 Comments || Top||

#7  Angie, the article says liquified petroleum gas. (The radio report also said LNG.) Think super MOAB, and pity the poor souls nearby. Probably Kim had them empty the tracks when his train was on the line, and this is the result of hurrying to get everything back on schedule. Assuming the stories are accurate, of course...
Posted by: James || 04/22/2004 13:59 Comments || Top||

#8  That big a bang should show-up on satilight photos.
Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 14:20 Comments || Top||

#9  Iran must have sold them the plans for that train bomb.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 14:39 Comments || Top||

#10  raptor - know any sites where we could find that?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 04/22/2004 16:47 Comments || Top||

#11  "Thousands dead"? Countries downwind had better be checking their Geiger counters and readying their disaster plans in case this is a radioactive "type of emergency"
Posted by: Tresho || 04/22/2004 17:47 Comments || Top||

#12  Latest version of rooters story includes this little nugget:

"In Washington, a U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity said: "There clearly was a large explosion there of some sort."

So, something happened.

Odd that Axis of Evil rail service is so unreliable.
Posted by: JAB || 04/22/2004 19:36 Comments || Top||

#13  Kim does travel by train, which to me makes me wonder how hes managed to live this long, since trains are hardly easy to hide and take a long time to get to their destination and they cant really change their route. Once you confirm that the little root-weavil is on the train, its time to call in the JDAM's.
Posted by: Frank Martin || 04/22/2004 19:37 Comments || Top||

#14  There clearly was a large explosion there of some sort

And. . . ??????
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 19:47 Comments || Top||

#15  Has Radio North Korea on the short-wave started to play funeral music yet, or are they still talking about Kim's praise for the inept collective rice-patty?

Anybody got access to a shortwave?

Does someone stream it on the web?

Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 19:50 Comments || Top||

#16  There were rumors the fuel was a warning gift from China to Kim and his energy-starved country, Yonhap said.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 20:12 Comments || Top||


Kim vows flexibility
North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il has pledged to be flexible and patient and committed himself to the six-party talks process to resolve the nuclear impasse with the United States, China said on Wednesday. “The DPRK (North Korea) side sticks to the final nuclear weapon free goal and its basic position on seeking for a peaceful solution through dialogue has not changed,” Kim was quoted as saying by the Xinhua news agency. “The DPRK side will continue to take a patient and flexible manner and actively participate in the six-party talks process, and make its own contributions to the progress of the talks.”
"Here! Watch this! I can hook my ankle behind my head...!"
Breaking a media blackout, Xinhua announced that Kim “unofficially” visited China from April 19-21, meeting top leaders including President Hu Jintao, military chief Jiang Zemin and Premier Wen Jiabao. Kim is believed to have left Beijing by train for the 15-hour journey back to Pyongyang earlier Wednesday after his first visit since a new Chinese leadership was installed in March 2003. Xinhua said Hu and Kim exchanged “in-depth views” on the 18-month nuclear standoff and other international and regional matters in a “cordial, friendly and candid atmosphere”. Kim expressed “satisfaction” with his visit and invited Hu to Pyongyang, which was accepted. Hu, who said China “treasured” its relationship with the Stalinist state, stressed that China supported a nuclear weapons free Korean peninsula, but upheld “that the DPRK’s rational concerns should be addressed”.
"Assuming anything in NKor is rational, of course..."
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 09:01 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "This yoga stuff is really helping me work out the kinks, and be centered and all. Really focuses the mind. Maybe I'll try some Pilates later this afternoon."
Posted by: Seafarious || 04/22/2004 9:20 Comments || Top||

#2  Commy Clause Thesaurus:

peaceful solution through dialogue
patient and flexible manner
“unofficially” visited
exchanged “in-depth views”
expressed “satisfaction”
“treasured” relationship

And the partial reporting syndrome:

Kim is believed to have left Beijing by train for the 15-hour journey, passing past a station shortly before it blew up

Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 11:43 Comments || Top||

#3  I'm thinking the Middle Kingdom sending message.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 13:24 Comments || Top||

#4  If you get "blowed up" you really become flexible.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 15:13 Comments || Top||


Down Under
More on the Lodhi arrest
Faleem Lodhi, 34, was charged with seven terrorist offences yesterday. Along with the deported Frenchman Willie Brigitte, he is believed to be the nucleus of what authorities believe was a plot to bomb a major Sydney site. It also follows admissions by Brigitte, who has been linked to the top ranks of al-Qaeda, that Lodhi was the alleged Sydney commander of a developing terrorist cell. To Brigitte, Lodhi was known as Abu Hamza. "The LET group based in Sydney, and formed around Abu Hamza, was preparing a large-scale terrorist act in Australia," Brigitte told France's anti-terrorist judge last year.

Sydney's Central Local Court heard yesterday that ASIO had observed Lodhi, an architect, dumping documents in a bin. The material had included photographs from the internet showing the layout of the Sydney-based military facilities Holsworthy Army Base, Garden Island Naval Base, Victoria Barracks and HMAS Penguin. The final target of the alleged plot is unknown. The week before Brigitte's arrest in October, Lodhi allegedly made inquiries by fax, using a false name, to a chemical company about the availability of urea nitrate which, in large quantities, can cause a deadly explosion. He told ASIO he meant to send the chemicals to his family's tanning business in Pakistan. Lodhi also allegedly sought information about Sydney's underground electricity supply. The court heard that Lodhi tried to recruit Izhar ul-Haque, a medical student. Ul-Haque, 21, is in jail after being arrested a week ago for allegedly training with LET in Pakistan.

Mr Hopper said ASIO allegedly saw his client dumping photographs of targeted sites in a bin but did not bother to see any alleged accomplice collect the "dead drop". The investigation was "botched". During interrogation in Paris, Brigitte identified a photograph of Lodhi. The French judge drafted an urgent communique to Australian security forces, urging an investigation into what he concluded were plans to launch a "terrorist act of great size in Australia". Brigitte also told French authorities that he had attended a LET training camp in Pakistan where he met a Pakistani man, Sajid, who later organised and paid for his trip to Australia. He said Sajid had ordered him to link up with Lodhi. Brigitte recalled Lodhi telling him to expect an unnamed house guest, possibly an explosives expert. The French dossier says Lodhi had the keys to Brigitte's flat and would organise "meetings there with the brothers."
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 12:53:58 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:


Sydney architect accused of terrorist acts
A man alleged to have links to French terror suspect Willie Brigitte was today refused bail in a Sydney court. Faheem Khalid Lodhi, 34, of Punchbowl, faced Central Local Court on seven offences. The married architect was charged with one count of recklessly collecting or making documents likely to facilitate terrorist acts, one count of acts in preparation for a terrorist act, one count of recklessly recruiting for a terrorist organisation, three counts of make and use false instrument, and one count of making false or misleading statements. Lodhi was arrested by federal agents this morning after search warrants were executed on a number of premises in Sydney.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 04/22/2004 4:02:34 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Is he Irish?
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 4:05 Comments || Top||

#2  "recklessly recruiting" = hitting on femalian undercover Federal Agent.

Reckless, indeed. Deport his prosperous ass.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 6:39 Comments || Top||

#3  Police claim Lodhi used a false facsimile in October last year to request the price of chemicals and used other false documents in a fake name to gain an electricity supply.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 04/22/2004 7:07 Comments || Top||

#4  three counts of make and use false instrument

Likely a diesel guitar
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:19 Comments || Top||

#5  "Punchbowl"? That's almost as good a place name as Dead Horse!
Posted by: Jonathan || 04/22/2004 11:36 Comments || Top||

#6  Faheem Khalid Lodhi, the Turd in the from Punchbowl.
Posted by: Raj || 04/22/2004 12:21 Comments || Top||


Europe
Suspicious Chemical At UK Research Centre
More than 60 firefighters have been called to a research centre in Kent after a suspicious chemical was found. The white powder was discovered at Sittingbourne Research Centre, on Broad Oak Road, after about 6pm. Eleven fire engines as well as police and ambulance units were at the scene...

Sounds like a case of suspicious chemical/bio found in mail, rather than stored at centre. Not impossible that this could be ecoterrorists rather than the default jihadis if it’s not a false alarm.
Posted by: Lux || 04/22/2004 4:52:42 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Mullah Krekar's got a memoir
The founder of a Kurdish extremist group accused by the United States of trying to destabilize Iraq says in his autobiography that he sought money from Osama bin Laden to fight Saddam Hussein. In his new book, ``My Own Words,'' Ansar al-Islam founder Mullah Krekar says he met a Saudi prince in Peshawar, Pakistan, in 1990 to ask for money to battle Saddam. The prince, who wasn't identified, declined to help. Bin Laden was also at the meeting, Krekar said. ``He sat at the far end of the table, but didn't say a single word,'' Krekar wrote.

In his autobiography released Thursday, Krekar said the Islamic Movement of Kurdistan, the forerunner of Ansar al-Islam, later tried to get money from bin Laden through a mutual friend, Palestinian Abdullah Azzam. Azzam and bin Laden had founded a group to recruit Arabs to fight Soviet forces in Afghanistan. ``He went straight to bin Laden, but bin Laden would not help us,'' wrote Krekar. He said bin Laden responded with ``my money goes to the Afghans' jihad'' - apparently a reference to the Taliban militia's fight against the Northern Alliance after the Soviets' departure from Afghanistan. Krekar did not say when the exchange took place.

In the book, Krekar said it was his opposition to Saddam's regime, especially after a 1988 chemical attack by Saddam's army that killed 5,000 people in the Kurdish city of Halabja, that drove him to seek funding from bin Laden. Krekar also said only time will decide whether bin Laden's efforts benefited the Muslim world. But during a news conference Thursday, he rejected the Sept. 11 terror attacks ``as a mass murder of civilians.''

During an extended visit after he fled to Norway, Krekar founded Ansar al-Islam in northern Iraq in December 2001 to foment revolution against Saddam. His book, written in Arabic and translated into Norwegian, shows the contrasts of a religious man who, after shooting down an Iraqi air force jet, kept the dead pilot's head as a trophy.

During his detention, Krekar was questioned by the Pentagon, the CIA and the FBI. U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft has called Ansar al-Islam a ``very dangerous group.'' Krekar has denied being a terrorist or having links to al-Qaida and says the allegations against him were fabricated as part of a U.S.-led conspiracy to justify the invasion of Iraq.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 2:18:35 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Fred, would you like an autographed copy?
Posted by: Seafarious || 04/22/2004 16:10 Comments || Top||

#2 
the allegations against him were fabricated as part of a U.S.-led conspiracy to justify the invasion of Iraq
Another legend in his own mind. We had plenty of justification without you, Kreky.

Get a life. One that doesn't require killing "infidels."

Wanker.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 04/22/2004 17:02 Comments || Top||


Fifth Column
Small anti-war protest
Posted by: Korora || 04/22/2004 16:57 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm all for them protesting peacefully and damn glad they and all of us have the right to do so. Rights paid for with the blood of treu not sunshine patriots. But stand by for the protest next week to protest the greed of Disney in keeping underaged Ducks working in Slave labor conditions FREE HUGHIE, DUGHIE and LOUIE
Posted by: cheaderhead || 04/22/2004 18:42 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Politix
House OKs Speedy Elections if Attacked
Fearing that terrorists might target Congress, the House on Thursday approved a bill to set up speedy special elections if 100 or more of its members are killed. The House, in a 306-97 vote, put aside for now the larger issue of whether the Constitution should be amended to allow for temporary appointments in the event that an attack caused mass fatalities among lawmakers.
Posted by: Anonymous || 04/22/2004 6:05:04 PM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq: Thirty-Five Years Of Unimaginable Tyranny, One Year of Progress
Excerpted from Statement for Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz to the Senate Armed Services Committee on April 20, 2004
A little over a year ago, we all watched the statue of Saddam Hussein fall in the heart of Baghdad. I remember watching the live coverage of that historic moment. Iraqis, eager to start a new page in their national history, enthusiastically tried to pull the statue down with the limited resources available to them – a length of rope that did not even reach all the way to the ground. Eventually, a group of U.S. Marines saw what was happening, and aided the Iraqi effort. Working together, the Marines and Iraqis brought down that symbol of oppression and provided an image that will be etched in our collective memory forever.

On that day, 25 million of some of the most talented people in the Muslim and Arab world were liberated from one of the worst tyrannies of the last 100 years. According to a somewhat popular theme these days, the world is full of bad guys, and that Saddam Hussein is just another bad guy. When I hear Saddam Hussein referred to that way, I can only conclude that there still exists a lack of real understanding of Saddam Hussein. In my career, I’ve known some bad guys up close and personal, people like former Philippine dictator Ferdinand Marcos and former Indonesian dictator Suharto. To paraphrase a famous vice-presidential debate, I knew these men, and Ferdinand Marcos was no Saddam Hussein; Suharto was no Saddam Hussein.

Saddam Hussein was more than just another bad guy. He institutionalized and sanctioned brutality on a scale that is simply unimaginable to most Americans. Hussein ruled by fear, creating a society in which the ideal citizen was an informer. The superintendent of the Baghdad policy academy told me that he had spent a year in jail for having made a disparaging comment about Saddam—to this best friend. In such a Republic of Fear, friendship itself became a weapon.

I have traveled to Iraq several times. I have spoken to hundreds of Iraqis, both in Iraq and here in the United States. And one of my strongest impressions is that fear of the old regime still pervades Iraq. But, a smothering blanket of apprehension woven by 35 years of repression—where even the smallest mistake could bring torture or death—won’t be cast off in a few weeks’ time...

One of the most heartbreaking stories to come out of Iraq almost defies belief. Scott Ritter – the former UNSCOM inspector and an opponent of the war – has described a prison in Baghad, whose stench, he said, “was unreal,” an amalgam of urine, feces, vomit and sweat”; a hellhole where prisoners were “howling and dying of thirst.” In this prison, the oldest inmates were 12, the youngest mere toddlers. Their crime—being children of the regime’s political enemies.

General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was recently returning from a trip to Iraq, and stopped at Ramstein AB, where he was told about some Iraqi businessmen who had recently passed through on their way to the United States, to the Texas Medical Center in Houston, where they were to undergo surgery to repair some of the damage inflicted on them some ten years ago. When Iraq’s economy was falling into shambles, Saddam’s way of placing blame was this: he ordered that a few merchants be rounded up. With flimsy evidence, they were found guilty of destabilizing the Iraqi economy and were sentenced to lose their right hands. Black Xs tattooed on their foreheads branded them as criminals. The amputations were filmed, and the video—as well as the hands—were sent to Saddam. In a Houston doctor’s office, one man was quoted as saying: “You spend your whole life doing and saying the right things. Then someone comes and cuts your hands off for no reason at all. It’s a torture that never ends.”
Wolfowitz is pretty eloquent. I only detected one dig at Kerry. I now can see why Big Head Ted went bonkers during the testimony. I can’t find a link to his statements, though.
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 1:25:42 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Can't find a transcript either. But you can watch the testimony via C-Span's site.
Posted by: growler || 04/22/2004 13:12 Comments || Top||


Home Front: WoT
House of Representatives votes for special elections in case many congressmen die in office
"Fearing that terrorists might target Congress, the House on Thursday [4/22/2004] approved a bill to set up speedy special elections if 100 or more of its members are killed."
Since 9/11 and especially since the anthrax strike of 2001 both the House and Senate have shamefully neglected getting their own affairs in order in case a terrorist attack eliminates many of their own membership or renders congressional meetings impossible. Remember how the Senate had trouble operating when some of its offices were contaminated? Apparently no alternate venue is available. The President has multiple backup facilities for conduct of presidential business in case of disaster, and there is a detailed map in the Constitution for successors to the executive office, but Congress apparently has no alternative than its present membership, structure and location. Multiple alternate seats of government should have already been planned for the entire Congressional membership, as well as some plan of succession.

I personally would favor the election of alternate members of the House and Senate selected every election as a matter of routine. This would provide 100% backup of the entire congressional delegation, elected by all the people with the understanding that the alternates would be seated when necessary. The alternates could not hold similar positions elsewhere in government during the time they are alternates. Standing members of congress would have the responsibility to keep their alternates informed of significant issues, and the alternates would have an obligation to be available during the congressional term. This would require a constitutional amendment, apparently the House’s action would not. Holding 100 emergency congressional elections after that many members are killed doesn’t sound at all practical, governmental officials and the general public would obviously have other problems to deal with in such a crisis.
Any other thoughts or suggestions?
Posted by: Tresho || 04/22/2004 5:31:13 PM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Uh...how about a party
Posted by: Michael || 04/22/2004 18:00 Comments || Top||

#2  As the electoral process for Congresscriiters is set forth in the Constitution wouldn't this have to go through the amendment process?
Posted by: cheaderhead || 04/22/2004 19:01 Comments || Top||

#3  Not replaced by appoinment,to much chance for abuse.
ex:simple majority of Congress assasinated.
President and Cabanit appoint"Interm"Reps and Senators until elections can be held.
Congress(controled by Priesidential appointees)as a "Temporary emergency measure"repeals 1st,2nd,3rd Amendments of the Constitution.

Result is Dictatorship.

Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 21:53 Comments || Top||

#4  Cheaderhead's probably right, but...
raptor, we have to have a contingency plan.
I'm convinced that Flight 93 was headed for the Capitol and if those brave Americans hadn't brought it down in Shanksville, PA, we'd have had to face this situation already.
On the morning of 9/11, no-one at the Capitol had any kind of evacuation plan--for ex., First Lady Laura Bush, who was there to speak, ended up watching TV with Sen. Teddy Kennedy in his office.
Also, check out Clancy's "Executive Orders" in which most of the Senate and the Congress as well as the Executive Branch is wiped out by a plane, in a scenario eerily close to what actually happened on 9/11.
In his book, it takes Pres. Jack Ryan a while to have elections and have Senators and Congresspeople elected.
Posted by: Jen || 04/22/2004 22:07 Comments || Top||

#5  Congress(controled by Priesidential appointees)as a "Temporary emergency measure"repeals 1st,2nd,3rd Amendments of the Constitution.

And under what authority could they do that?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 04/22/2004 23:39 Comments || Top||

#6  Great book,Jen.I agree we definatly need a contigency plan,but putting that much power into the hands of one person is troubling.
That was a what if scinerio,RC.But I can certainly see the the posability(or am I just being paranoid).
Posted by: raptor || 04/23/2004 8:16 Comments || Top||


Islamist fifth columns
April 08, 2004

By Arnaud de Borchgrave

The general commanding four loyalist columns moving on Madrid during Spain’s civil war (1936-39) referred to his militant supporters within the capital as his "fifth column." Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union maintained fifth columns in the United States. These were groups of secret sympathizers, sleeper cells, or supporters of an enemy that engage in espionage or sabotage, or simply disinform about the attacker’s intentions. But as soon anyone suggests the presence of an Islamist equivalent in Western democracies, watch out. Militant Muslim "moderates" go into their well-rehearsed tonitruant mode. Islamophobia and McCarthyism are among the milder epithets.

Following the Madrid train bombings March 11 and the arrest of eight young British-born Pakistanis before they could put half a ton of ammonium nitrate to work against Heathrow Airport or the London Underground, Prime Minister Tony Blair decided "the enemy within" had to be sharply circumscribed. He ordered an end to any further debate on a national ID card and made it mandatory.

The new Fifth Column syndrome indicates the enemy inside the gates has plenty of bedlamites rooting for him in other countries. In Pakistan, some 66 percent believe Osama bin Laden is a good guy. As for the world’s biggest proliferators of nukes to America’s enemies, he has close to a 100 percent approval rating.

Recent opinion surveys among Britain’s almost 2 million Muslims, mostly from South Asia, rang alarm bells in Whitehall and in the media. Eighty percent were against the invasion of Iraq, 13 percent said another September 11-style attack on America would be justified, and 50 percent said they would consider becoming a suicide bomber if forced to live like Palestinians. Some 200,000 openly sympathized with Osama bin Laden.

Muslim sentiments are not much different in Continental Europe. Increasingly, Europeans are older and affluent and find themselves surrounded by immigrants who have little respect for local traditions. In the Netherlands, Muslims are a majority among children under 14 in the country’s four largest cities. Rotterdam, a port city where half the people are of foreign origin, will soon unveil Europe’s largest mosque. In Brussels, the capital of the European Union, Muhammad has been the name most frequently given for newborn baby boys. Osama is a close second.
You almost have to pity any child named "Osama". Sort of like naming your kid "Adolph."
While authorities claim it is well-nigh impossible to fool immigration officers with forged passports, a British reporter flew to Poland with no introductions, asked a few questions, was told where to go and in two days picked up a new Polish passport on the black market — it cost his paper $1,500 — and returned through British immigration unchallenged. The reporter said all kinds of forged documents were on offer. Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan in Pakistan, is also known for its expertise in forgeries and counterfeit currency.

Spain formally accused 12 Moroccans of involvement in the March 11 train bombing that killed almost 200 and injured 1,800. Of the 20 arrested, 16 are still in custody, including six charged with mass murder. Five blew themselves up as security forces closed on their suburban hideout near Madrid. They have ties to Islamist cells all over Europe. In France, raids on eight locations yielded and arrested 13 Moroccan militants. Their common base was across the narrow Strait of Gibraltar in once elegant Tangier where unemployment is 30 percent.

Several of them came from a middle-class background and had been enticed into a secret life of violence against Christians and Jews and even Muslims who worked with them, not by al Qaeda, but by a still more extreme movement called Salafia Jihadia. Most of its cadres had been trained in Afghanistan in al Qaeda’s camps but operated autonomously.

Muhammad Al-Fizazi, a fiery spellbinder, now serving a 30-year sentence in Morocco for inciting violence, inspired their fanaticism. He urged his disciples to "assassinate the impious" and "to love death as much as the impious love life." A paper found in the rented apartment of one Moroccan terrorist said, "We must develop immigration into Western countries as the path to the glory of Islam and the destruction of the Godless pagans."
I suppose that we must now learn to love killing terrorists as much as we love life. Turnabout, and all that.
The Fifth Column is alive and well in the U.S. Abdurahman Alamoudi, an American citizen who was the prime mover behind the American Muslim Council (AMC) and a number of other U.S.-based Islamist-sympathizing organizations, is the man who certified 75 Muslim chaplains for service in the U.S. Armed Forces. He is a self-described supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah and was arrested at Heathrow last summer as he flew in from Libya on his way back to Washington. He had a little contretemps at the airport, unable to give British customs a plausible explanation for the $340,000 he was carrying in cash.
I’d like to know if all "75 Muslim chaplains" are being investigated. Was Yee one of his plants?
Mr. Alamoudi, now in jail in Virginia awaiting trial for allegedly lying to immigration authorities, was the most prominent leader of the Muslim World League in America, a Wahhabi Saudi front, made up of some 40 groups run by a small circle of trusted and wealthy individuals. Mr. Alamoudi was directly involved in 16 Islamist front organizations. The network is controlled through four different layers of front organizations connected to Muslim charities and businesses in Northern Virginia. The FBI has gathered enough evidence to put away several prominent figures. But diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia — and Saudi influence on the price of oil — have limited expulsions to 16 Arab clerics with Saudi diplomatic passports who were proselytizing impressionable young minds with inflammatory cliches about Jews and Christians.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) stubbornly refuses to concede that there are several thousand American Muslims — out of 6 million — who applaud the events of September 11, 2001, and firmly believe the U.S. is the fount of all global evil. Some 400 are currently being monitored 24/7 by the FBI. Either they have been fingered by Islamist prisoners — interrogated in Guantanamo, Bagram air base near Kabul, a U.S. Navy brig, and prisons in European countries — or phone taps or e-mail intercepts have shown their verbal propensity for violence against the hated American enemy.     
Living in America while hating it at the same time merely demonstrates moral bankruptcy. You cannot simultaneously enjoy the benefits of freedom and seek to overthrow it without forfeiting all moral authority.
CAIR tells us the latest findings on "Islam in America" show the vast majority of Muslim Americans hold "moderate" views on issues of policy, politics and religion. No one ever doubted that. It’s not the problem. What does CAIR have to say about a New Jersey firm that offered investments to wealthy Muslims, including housing developments in suburban Maryland, raised millions of dollars for what law enforcement authorities describe as a "who’s who" of international terrorists and Islamist extremists?

CAIR is in deep denial about the violent face of Islam. It’s time to care, CAIR. Also time for a Muslim to take the global lead against Islamist terrorism. Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King or Martin Luther who will become the uncontested voice of Islam?
When I finally see wave after wave of moderate Muslim clerics going into areas of Islamic extremism and gloriously martyring themselves in the name of preaching non-violent jihad, I’ll begin to cut their religion some slack. Until then, there will always be a degree of warranted suspicion surrounding any person of Islamic faith.
Arnaud de Borchgrave is editor at large of The Washington Times and of United Press International.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 4:27:30 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "CAIR is in deep denial about the violent face of Islam."

No, CAIR is part of the face of violent Islam. They are enemy agents, pure and simple.
Posted by: Dave D. || 04/22/2004 17:31 Comments || Top||

#2  Bit by bit, bombing by bombing, the Kufr world is getting a thorough education in the meaning of Islamic extremism. Eventually CAIR will be marginalized if not put out of business and its officers into prison.
Posted by: Tresho || 04/22/2004 17:56 Comments || Top||

#3  In this case, I prefer the term "Filth Columnists".
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 04/22/2004 18:05 Comments || Top||


Photos of flag drapped caskets leaked to internet
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 04/22/2004 13:26 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Anyone think this is going to play the way the left wants it to?
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 04/22/2004 13:59 Comments || Top||

#2  Any guesses on WHO released the photos? My guess is Kerry and his cohorts. Has anyone seen Hanoi Jane lately?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 04/22/2004 14:02 Comments || Top||

#3  I think these photos are going to bounce exactly the wrong way the Left wants, Robert. Though they'll try their damnedest to make it work for them.
Posted by: Jack Deth || 04/22/2004 14:38 Comments || Top||

#4  I would like to see some bloggers start to repost Sept 11 pictures to go alongside the flagged draped coffin pictures in the public zietgiest (Did I spell or even use that correctly?).
Posted by: ruprecht || 04/22/2004 15:36 Comments || Top||

#5  Woman loses her job over coffins photo

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001909527_coffin22m.html

A military contractor has fired Tami Silicio, a Kuwait-based cargo worker whose photograph of flag-draped coffins of fallen U.S. soldiers was published in Sunday's edition of The Seattle Times.
Posted by: Anonymous4021 || 04/22/2004 15:37 Comments || Top||

#6  My eyes actually teared up as I viewed these photos. They are tears of pride for our soldiers who have sacrificed themselves for us and the Iraqi people. They are also tears of rage at the LLL asshats who attempt to exploit the lives and deaths of true patriots for political gain. And like every other snarky attempt by the left to score political points of the most disturbing and morbid type, it will fail miserably.
Posted by: spiffo || 04/22/2004 15:41 Comments || Top||

#7  The picture does not make me more sad / angry - the "numbers" in the news already equated to coffins. The simpering reality-challenged Lefties are the only ones who require pictures to make them real. Additionally, they are the only ones who need to be reminded at whom they should direct their outrage, be it feigned or real. Fucking morons.

The craven cretins who endeavor to score political points from death, whether tragic or heroic, deserve eternity in Dante's 9th Ring of Hell - reserved for the treacherous. They are unredeemable offal.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 16:01 Comments || Top||

#8  Silicio said she never sought to put herself in the public spotlight. Instead, she said, she hoped the publication of the photo would help families of fallen soldiers understand the care and devotion that civilians and military crews dedicate to the task of returning the soldiers home.

"It wasn't my intent to lose my job or become famous or anything," Silicio said.


So she publishes them in the farking NEWSPAPER - who then SPASHED IT ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SUNDAY PAPER????

Here is a
PDF
of the front page of the Seattle Times for that date.....
Posted by: CrazyFool || 04/22/2004 16:04 Comments || Top||

#9  Double what .com said.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 04/22/2004 16:09 Comments || Top||

#10  Definitely not going to get a 'Viet Nam' response in viewing these photos. I knew the military took great care in shipping them home. I didn't need to see a picture.

I want to find out how she got that job. I know several reliable, discreet folks who'd like that type of work.
Posted by: Monica S. || 04/22/2004 16:19 Comments || Top||

#11  I hate the secrecy of bringing the dead home. It should be something of a ceremony. The Challenger crew were brought home in the dead of night on a barge.... it was very strange.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 18:06 Comments || Top||

#12  Silicio can't have taken all the pictures that Drudge has up. Some of them clearly aren't in Kuwait, and many of them could not possibly have been taken without everyone in them knowing. So who took them, and why?
Posted by: Angie Schultz || 04/22/2004 18:08 Comments || Top||

#13  Angie, from what I understand, once the first photo went public some group used the Freedom of Information act to get access to all of the photos. I'm not sure why the military took the photos in the first place, possibly for historical purposes.
Posted by: ruprecht || 04/22/2004 18:19 Comments || Top||

#14  Woman loses her job over coffins photo

And her husband too. I'm sure the families of those we lost would like to have a nice long chat with Tami in a back room somewhere.

U.S. Contractor Fired for Military Coffin Photo

Thu Apr 22, 2004 07:54 PM ET

By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. contractor and her husband have been fired after her photograph of 20 flag-draped coffins of American troops going home from Iraq was published in violation of military rules.

"I lost my job and they let my husband go as well," Tami Silicio, who loaded U.S. military cargo at Kuwait International Airport for a U.S. company, told Reuters in an e-mail response to questions.

Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 20:20 Comments || Top||

#15  my god rest thier souls. i just thank god we have such brave men and women.

if the media runs with this it would truly be despicable - espeicailly since they chose to censor the graphic pictures of 9-11 victims.

god bless america
Posted by: Dan || 04/22/2004 20:48 Comments || Top||

#16  Shipman, you are right Americans should be allowed to venerate those who have made the ultimate sacrifice. The press blackout came into effect when caskets were returned to the states during GW I and CNN used them to make a political statement. GHW Bush was giving a press briefing in which a few jokes were made like Rumsfeld's briefing. CNN split the screen and televised caskets being offloaded with the press conference. Evidently it was a true al Jizeera moment.
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 21:19 Comments || Top||


UPDATE: AK-47S Were Bound For Vermont
A Florida-based arms company is at the center of the international probe into a New York-bound ship seized in Italy while laden with thousands of Kalashnikov assault rifles, The Post has learned. The AK-47s were apparently bound for Vermont. Officials have linked Century International Arms Inc. in Boca Raton to the discovery of a cache of 7,500 AK-47s hidden beneath piles of properly labeled arms in several cargo containers confiscated in the port of Gioia Tauro in southern Italy several days ago. Law-enforcement sources said the shipment came under suspicion about three weeks ago, sometime after the vessel, MS Adnan Bayraktar, embarked from Romania. Irregularities on customs forms in Italy were the basis for the seizure, sources said. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was notified and joined the probe. Investigators determined the ultimate destination of the ship's stash of combat-style weapons was Century's giant warehouse in Fairfax, Vt., near the Canadian border, sources said. The company declined comment.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 07:28 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Maybe the hippy's were arming up to get ready and secede when the bong haze clears.
Posted by: JerseyMike || 04/22/2004 9:40 Comments || Top||

#2  They were destined for the Revolutionary People's Howard Dean Brigades (Their battle cry: "We're gonna go to New Hampshire, and South Carolina, and Missouri, and Oregon, and Washington, and New York and California . . . YEEEAAAAAAAGGGGHH!")
Posted by: Mike || 04/22/2004 10:08 Comments || Top||

#3  With much celebratory shooting randomly into the air gun sex.
Posted by: Seafarious || 04/22/2004 10:17 Comments || Top||

#4  Hmm - 1st missing nuke fuel rods and now small arms. Looks like the People's Republic of Vermont is looking to up the anty. I'd also look deeper for any ties/connection to the French Canadians in Quebec. Those bastards are involved with this somehow!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 04/22/2004 10:27 Comments || Top||

#5  Damn, armed Deanie Babies, a scary yet somewhat laughable vision.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:29 Comments || Top||

#6  The Vermont People's Liberation Front today threatened to turn New Hampshire into a "Sea of Fire" unless their demands were met. Among these are a land corridor to the Atlantic and a unlimited line of credit at New Hampshire state liquor stores.
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 11:11 Comments || Top||

#7  1. Assault weapons ban sunsets in September 2004.
2. Century is an arms wholesaler.
3. The moment the assault weapons ban lifts, everybody in the US who hated that law will want to rush out and put their hands on an AK to celebrate.
4. The company with the most assault weapons on hand when the law dies gets to make a handsome profit on all that pent-up demand.
5. But if you obey the law then you won't have any assault weapons on hand to sell.
6. So don't obey the law. Hence this story.
Moral: Uh, I don't know. Maybe "if there hadn't been a f*****g assault weapons ban in the first place this sort of thing never would have happened."
Posted by: Jonathan || 04/22/2004 11:45 Comments || Top||

#8  You guys are all wrong.

The AKs are for the armed uprising of the good New Hampshire wannabes of Killington against their oppressive Vermontian overlords.
Posted by: Carl in N.H || 04/22/2004 11:50 Comments || Top||

#9  NY Post: Century's Web site does not show that the company sells AK-47s, a weapon commonly associated with terrorists and guerrilla movements around the world.

The dubious importation aside, funny how the usual suspects didn't see any problem when the Soviets were handing 'em out like candy to the 'oppressed'. Guess dealing in 'em domestically to legitmate buyers is another thing.
Posted by: Pappy || 04/22/2004 12:09 Comments || Top||

#10  Time for a new Ben and Jerry flavor:
"AK-47 nuts in every scoop", maybe?
Posted by: Capsu78 || 04/22/2004 12:13 Comments || Top||

#11  Come on, you all, make some sense.

CAI is a well-known importer of surplus arms. I have a Czech VZ-24 Mauser that they imported. There is a whole passel of people out there who collect military surplus, curio, and relic firearms. One of the best advantages to collecting such weapons is that they're cheap cheap cheap. Ammuntion is likewise cheap.

In short, this is nothing about nothing. Some exporter didn't do their paperwork, or thought to evade taxes and make some extra cash. CAI is reputable, and wouldn't risk its reputation like this.
Posted by: gromky || 04/22/2004 23:06 Comments || Top||


Another Grand Jury Probes Al-Arian
A new grand jury is investigating Sami Al-Arian, according to a motion filed in U.S. District Court by Al-Arian's attorneys. Claiming prosecutors are abusing the grand jury process, the defense attorneys are asking a federal judge to dismiss an indictment handed up in February 2002 charging Al-Arian and others with providing material support to Palestinian Islamic Jihad, an organization that has claimed responsibility for numerous suicide bombings in Israel. According to the motion, the attorneys, Linda Moreno and William B. Moffit, have learned that prosecutors have subpoenaed witnesses to a grand jury impaneled to investigate Al-Arian. The motion, made public Monday, gives no information about who the witnesses are or what information they can provide to a grand jury. ``It is improper for the government to utilize the grand jury to investigate a pending indictment or to see discovery,'' the motion states.

Moffit and U.S. attorney's office spokesman Steve Cole declined to comment Monday on the new grand jury. Prosecutors recently disclosed in court filings that Al- Arian was ``a source of information for a brief period'' for the FBI. Co-defendant Hatim Naji Fariz filed a motion Friday seeking further information about Al-Arian's relationship with the FBI. In that motion, Fariz's public defender, Kevin T. Beck, says he expects to seek a separate trial for his client.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 07:18 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:


Vermont nuclear plant searching for missing fuel rods
Two pieces of a highly radioactive fuel rod are missing from a Vermont nuclear plant, and engineers planned to search onsite for the nuclear material, officials said Wednesday. The fuel rod was removed in 1979 from the Vermont Yankee reactor, which is currently shut down for refueling and maintenance. Remote-control cameras will be used to search a spent fuel pool on the property, officials said. "We do not think there is a threat to the public at this point. The great probability is this material is still somewhere in the pool," said Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman Neil Sheehan.

But Sheehan said it was possible the spent fuel was mixed in with a shipment of low-level nuclear waste and ended up at a repository in South Carolina, or a facility in Washington state. He said it was also possible it was taken to a nuclear testing facility run by General Electric, which designed the plant. The material would be fatal to anyone who came in contact with it without being properly shielded, Sheehan said. Spent nuclear fuel also could be used by terrorists to construct so-called dirty bombs that would spread deadly radiation with conventional explosives.

The NRC is helping plant officials in the search. The rod was part of the fuel assembly used to power the reactor. One of the missing pieces is about the size of a pencil. The other piece is about the thickness of a pencil and 17 inches long. "It would be very difficult to remove this material from the site without somebody knowing about it," Sheehan said. "It would set off radiation monitors." Sheehan cited the heightened awareness of the need to control nuclear material that followed the Sept. 11 terror attacks. "We don't want this falling into the wrong hands," he said. "This is something we would never take lightly."
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 05:37 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I blame Dean
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 04/22/2004 10:22 Comments || Top||

#2  We looked in Vermont we looked in Iowa, we looked in New Hampshire and Wisconsin and South Carolina and New York we will look in California and Texas we won't quit looking!

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaghh!
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:28 Comments || Top||

#3  #1,2 - You miss the obvious!

Are you all kidding, they're under Dean's bed. That's why he became increasingly odd in his behaviour as the campaign rolled on!

Dr. Dean, Dr. Dean get treated for radiation sickness, STAT!
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 12:45 Comments || Top||

#4  And did they check in the pockets of the pants he wore yesterday? Guys always leave their wallets and keys in the pockets...
Posted by: Sgt. Mom || 04/22/2004 15:34 Comments || Top||

#5  you right about that sgt. mom im got the cleanest wallet in florida
Posted by: HalfEmpty || 04/22/2004 18:00 Comments || Top||


International-UN-NGOs
Muslim nations ponder Iraq force
Islamic nations have said they could contribute troops to Iraq if the UN takes charge of the operation. The offer was made by officials from about 20 of the Muslim countries attending an emergency summit in Putrajaya, Malaysia.
We’re having enough trouble with Iraqi insurgent infiltration. I don’t think we need to make it official policy just yet.
Members agreed Iraq could not be stabilised without a bigger bombing campaign role for the UN; Indonesia and Pakistan, among others, offered troops to back the UN. Speakers at the summit also attacked US policy towards Iraq and Israel.
One big collective gasp, please.
Delegates at the one-day meeting said the UN Security Council must pass a resolution which empowered the UN to oversee Iraq’s transition to sovereignty.
Only after they answer for how they interfered with the economic sanctions against Saddam. Until then, no dice.
"Peace, security and stability in Iraq could be secured and guaranteed through... the Iraqi people expressive their legitimate rights, including the right to free and fair elections," said a statement produced by the body. The BBC’s Jonathan Kent in Kuala Lumpur said the meeting avoided direct criticism of the US for civilian deaths incurred during its assaults against Iraqi insurgents.
You mean the ones our incompetent snipers managed to terrify the insurgents with?
But it still accused the US of displaying a casual disregard for the safety of ordinary Iraqis.
These so-called "leaders" are just mistaking our "casual disregard" for their safety.
Indonesia, Malaysia and Pakistan indicated they would consider sending peacekeepers to the Arab state if they were part of a UN force.
Wow! Timely and proactive intervention from the Moslem countries. I think Pakistan has done enough heavy lifting forthe terrorists already, thank you.
America’s recent endorsement of a unilateral Israeli plan to withdraw from the Gaza Strip, while consolidating West Bank settlements, was also heavily criticised.
Sure ... perish the thought that peace might actually break out for a change.
Summit delegates concluded the US move would derail the peace process by "denying the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people".
PS: The Palestinian’s "inalienable rights" (where’d they pick up that phrase?) DO NOT happen to include terrorist mass murder. Once we can clear up this tedious little misunbderstanding on your part, maybe we’ll yank Israel’s chain, but not a picosecond before.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 7:45:58 PM || Comments || Link || [6 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What timing, right after the Jordanian soldiers ambushed and killed American policewomen under the U.N. in Bosnia.



Posted by: TS || 04/22/2004 20:28 Comments || Top||

#2  Amen, TS!

The baksheesh opportunities alone would sink Iraq. To make overt sabotage, the obvious effect of inviting other Arabs into Iraq, official policy, however, is a tad too much. Seriously considering the UN to "run" things is only occurring in LLL venues. Knock yourselves out, Lol!
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 20:52 Comments || Top||

#3  The media's silence on whether Iraqis actually want the UN is deafening.
Posted by: Phil B || 04/22/2004 20:56 Comments || Top||

#4  FUCK THEM.... FUCK THE u.n..... FUCK THE e.u.... FUCK russia.... FUCK china.... FUCK spain.......... FUCK 'EM ALL!!
Posted by: Halfass Pete || 04/22/2004 21:52 Comments || Top||

#5  I'm with you, Wholeass Pete.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 04/22/2004 22:10 Comments || Top||

#6  Members agreed Iraq could not be stabilised without a bigger role for the UN; Indonesia and Pakistan, among others, offered troops to back the UN.

Screw these idiots AND screw the UN. They couldn't use what influence they had to get Saddam to comply, and didn't give a damn one way or the other w/r/t bin Laden and his gang of thugs, and now they want to get involved??? Sorry, but no. No, no, NO. Now go away.

Speakers at the summit also attacked US policy towards Iraq and Israel.

Three words: GO TO HELL.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/22/2004 23:39 Comments || Top||


Probe Opens on Iraq Oil-For-Food Program
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:39 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Six months from now we're going to be watching an Army medic check Kofi for head lice.
Posted by: Matt || 04/22/2004 11:34 Comments || Top||

#2  Here is an article from a month ago on this:

Claudia Rosette National Review Online

Kofi Anan's Son is up to his neck in this -
up to $10,000,000,000, now?

France, Russia, Germany - Feeling queasy boyz?
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 11:54 Comments || Top||

#3  I shouldn't have forgot the Swiss. But, as we all know, "The Swiss never take sides."

Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 11:56 Comments || Top||

#4  ...Volcker's panel will have no subpoena authority and will need to rely on voluntary cooperation from foreign governments, U.N. staff, members of Saddam's former government and current Iraqi leaders who claim they have evidence that dozens of people, including top U.N. officials took kickbacks from the oil-for-food program.

Uh-huh. That'll happen. Get ready to hear the phrase "Sorry, we decline to provide the requested documentation." a lot, Paul
Posted by: mojo || 04/22/2004 13:19 Comments || Top||

#5  Our soldiers and marines already found a lot of documentation in Saddam's files in Baghdad. Plus in your quote :
. . .current Iraqi leaders who claim they have evidence that dozens of people, including top U.N. officials took kickbacks from the oil-for-food program.
We already have a lot of evidence. Volker may not need much more anyway. Jacques "Mugsey" Chirac, and his sidekick, Dominique "Pretty-Boy" de Villepin, I hope, are looking for an exile spot.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 13:33 Comments || Top||

#6  Maybe Sen. Ron Paul won't need his Legislation to get the US out of the UN, after all.

This Oil-For-Food Fiasco could pull the foundation from under Kofi and his boys, thieves, lackeys and a$$kissers!

There's too much paper. Too spread out. And in the wrong hands (From Kofi's POV) for an All Night Shredding Party too take care of.

I've a feeling that Fox News is going to be all over this like ugly on an ape!
Posted by: Jack Deth || 04/22/2004 13:58 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Arson rampage in southern Thailand
Three people were killed and 50 buildings and vehicles set on fire by rebels in Thailand’s Muslim- majority southern province, Channel 5 reported, without saying where it got the information.
Rebels set fire to schools, telephone booths, tractors and Buddhist temples in the Narathiwat province bordering Malaysia, the report said. One villager and two firemen were killed by gunmen, it said.
Posted by: TS || 04/22/2004 3:54:22 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Counterfeit trade linked to JI
A risk assessment agency in Hong Kong says counterfeit goods sold at high margins in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world can be traced to terrorist groups like Jemaah Islamiyah, Islamic extremists linked to the al-Qaida terror network.
Money made selling fake or copied DVD's, designer bags, and brand-name cigarettes can end up in the hands of terrorists.

The Hong Kong risk assessment firm Hill and Associates says counterfeit products not only damage corporate sales and tarnish brand names, the illegal trade also threatens regional security.

"Terrorist networks need money to function because they do not hold down regular jobs," said David Fernyhough, the company's brand director, speaking at the Foreign Correspondent's Club in Hong Kong. "Where the counterfeiting comes in is because it's very high return, very low risk, that money is untraceable and therefore attractive."

He says companies trying to stop counterfeiters should be aware that vendors of fake products are often also involved in drugs, people smuggling and terrorism.

Mr. Fernyhough says counterfeiters are attracted to brand-name products because of big profit margins.

"Products that tend to be involved, where you have organized crime and potential extremist exploitation are the high margin goods where you are making a lot of money for very little investment. Name brands sell for far greater than their actual worth," he said.

Mr. Fernyhough says counterfeit goods make up about five percent of world trade, accounting for hundreds of billions of dollars each year.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 2:15:49 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  From this article:

Fighting Counterfeiters Also Helps Fight Terrorism

This point was underlined by the July 20 [2002] Customs Service arrest at the Detroit airport of a suspected al-Qaida member carrying $12 million in counterfeit cashiers’ checks drawn on West America Bank. Reportedly, the forged checks were of very high quality and looked extremely convincing.

... Interpol estimates that legitimate $100 bills make up 30 percent to 40 percent of all the $100 bills circulating outside the United States. The rest are counterfeits that help fund terrorist activities, money laundering, drug deals and illicit arms trades. Such counterfeiting is taking place on a massive scale, as shown by the Philippine National Bureau of Investigation’s reported seizure recently of U.S. $100 bills and Treasury notes with a face value of over $1.7 trillion, plus computer and printing equipment. The fake $100 bills sold for $4 each.


Currency counterfeiting is a more substantial terrorism issue than knockoff Louis Vuitton handbags.

China's product counterfeiting and intellectual property theft is doing major harm to our world's economy. Their pirating is damaging the commerce and job markets of every other industrialized nation on earth.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 17:13 Comments || Top||


Cops Nab Suspect in Seamen's Kidnappings
Philippine authorities are holding a man linked to the kidnapping of an Indonesian and two Malaysian seamen off the southern Tawi-Tawi province, officials said yesterday. Ten suspected Abu Sayyaf gunmen onboard motor boats intercepted the MV Ocean 2 barge and seized the trio Sam Walter Pel and Wong Sien Nung and Toh Chien Tiong near the island of Baguan several nautical miles from Tawi-Tawi province on April 11. Seven other seamen hid in the deck when the gunmen boarded the vessel, officials said. "We are questioning the man about his role or what he knows about the kidnappings of the three seamen by the Abu Sayyaf. We are still tracking down his companions," Tawi-Tawi police chief Esa Hasan told Arab News. Hasan said Abu Sayyaf members were among those behind the kidnapping.
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:51 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Another Syrian-Iraq Connection?
From the ever-useful Belmont Club:
Just a few interesting tidbits. This Global Security has an archival link to an Iraqi yellowcake program (uranium enrichment) which was located at Al-Qaim, Iraq. Because the map on the site doesn't show international boundaries, it was not until the recent border battles between the Marines and a battalion sized force of uniformed Jihadis and the revelation that America had been fighting a secret war against infiltrators on the border that I realized that these yellowcake refining facilities were right on the Syrian frontier. I am now beginning to understand why David Kay believed that WMDs may have been shipped to Syria in the lead up to OIF. With the recent VX gas attempts against Jordan, whose provenance is suspected to be Syrian, the plot thickens indeed.

Yes, doesn't it.
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 12:15:27 PM || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Just read that over at Belmont Club too. The Cantina scene in Star Wars comes to mind.
Posted by: Lucky || 04/22/2004 12:44 Comments || Top||

#2  Yep. Frankly, I've always liked the theme of the Imperial Storm Troopers.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 13:50 Comments || Top||

#3  Lucky & Shipman - Don't you know. The "WMDs" appeared to Baby Assad from the sky on the shoulders of a winged messenger. And it wasn't the ghosts of one of Saddam's sons!

It wasn't yellowcake Uranium, it was simply Yellow Cake to celebrate the birthday of a Assad relative. Uranium? NO-no-no. . . Those Geiger counters are broken!

Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 15:03 Comments || Top||

#4  was it vx in jordan? only heard "chemicals" in the press - this would truly be disturbing....didn't a defector from iraq in the 90's indicate that saddam was producing vx?
Posted by: Dan || 04/22/2004 15:52 Comments || Top||

#5  For an expounding on the VX theme, check his April 19th entry.
Posted by: Anonymous4491 || 04/22/2004 22:30 Comments || Top||


The Black Hats: They huff and they puff
EFL
President Mohammad Khatami said on Wednesday that any attack on the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala will hurt the feelings of Muslims throughout the world, especially Shias, and such a mistake will prove suicidal for the occupation forces. "I do not think they will make such a mistake, because if they do, they will be caught up in a storm," Khatami told reporters after a cabinet meeting.
We welcome Iran’s intervention.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 8:30:44 AM || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Might be as bad as bombing during Ramadan.
Posted by: ruprecht || 04/22/2004 13:04 Comments || Top||

#2  If there's to be a storm, they'd do well to remember who controls the lightning. Hostile action by Iran would give the AF a chance to combat test some of those new weapons that were developed too late to use in the liberation of Iraq.

Also, a "dark and stormy night" makes it even harder to see those B2s over their nuclear facilities.
Posted by: RWV || 04/22/2004 13:50 Comments || Top||

#3  The attack on the Khobar Towers hurt Americans' feelings too, but Khatami doesn't seem to sympathize about that.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 04/22/2004 22:28 Comments || Top||


Shooting in Iran
Armed clash leads to several deaths in Kermanshah
SMCCDI (Information Service)
Apr 21, 2004

An armed clash between the regime forces and a group of opponent has lead to the deaths of two and injury of another individual. The action took place in front of Kermanshah’s Biston Hospital located beside the Razi Agriculture Univesrity.

The armed opponents were able to escape from the security forces by entering into the the university located on a 200 acres land and were able to vanish.

Armed actions against the regime forces and sabotage in its insallations are in a constant raise.

This is encouraging. When people stop demonstrating and start shooting, things begin to change.
Posted by: RWV || 04/22/2004 1:06:57 AM || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The armed opponents were able to escape from the security forces by entering into the the university located on a 200 acres land and were able to vanish.

Any takers that the University will get locked down after this? Them agitatin' stoonts ain' gonna git ta do thet agin! Who needs that much edumahcation anyhoo?
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 3:01 Comments || Top||

#2  As more Revolutionary Guards are sent off to die pointless violent deaths in Iraq, fewer are left behind to guard the home front against the vast majority of their countrymen who are sick and tired of being tyrannized by Allah's representatives on Earth. With a few more pushes and a little luck, Khatami goes the way of Ceaucescu.
Posted by: GKarp || 04/22/2004 16:11 Comments || Top||


Nuclear-Armed Iran Would Be 'Intolerable' -Bush
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A nuclear-armed Iran would pose an intolerable threat to peace in the Middle East and a mortal danger to Israel, President Bush said on Wednesday, adding that any such threat would be "dealt with" by the United States and its allies.
Black turbans to experience scrotal retraction in 5 .. 4 .. 3 ..
In strongly worded remarks before an audience of newspaper editors and publishers, the American Republican president pressed the secretive leadership of the Islamic republic to heed U.S. and European demands not to pursue a nuclear weapons program. "It would be intolerable to peace and stability in the Middle East if they get a nuclear weapon, particularly since their stated objective is the destruction of Israel," Bush said in answer to a question about international cooperation against militant attacks. "The development of a nuclear weapon in Iran is intolerable. And a program is intolerable. Otherwise they will be dealt with, starting through the United Nations."
Let's not linger at the UN too long now.
Posted by: Steve White || 04/22/2004 12:35:27 AM || Comments || Link || [9 views] Top|| File under:

#1  North Korea: Hey! No fair!!! I called nexties!!! I'm more eviler than they are!!! Pick me!! Pick me!! You ALWAYS pay more attention to him!!!
Posted by: snellenr || 04/22/2004 0:48 Comments || Top||

#2  The American President is very tolerant. Some things are intolerable. AQ don't mean much vs an Iran that is going so far out on a limb.
Posted by: Lucky || 04/22/2004 1:08 Comments || Top||

#3  The advent of affordable technology that easily manufactures nuclear weapons has forever changed the world's ability to tolerate such violent stone-age cultures as those in the Middle East. Without having had to experience either the education or internal upheavals that industrialization so often requires of its host societies, Iran is nonetheless attempting to acquire armaments useful in military domination. That their armed forces display not even the least sense of stewardship required for the prudent administration of these puissant weapons bodes well for no one save Iran itself.

We no longer have the luxury of dabbling in old school moral relativism that gave these virulent barbarians any reprieve from forcible compliance with world standards of human rights and amenable international conduct. Iran and other theocratically inclined Islamists seek nothing less than global domination with their Neanderthal sensibilities intact. Iran remains one of those few countries still openly dedicated to the destruction of Israel. This sort of flagrant aggression cannot be permitted, even at the cost of obliterating those belligerents who refuse to lay down arms.

Free society and its proper progress must not be imperiled by any reticence towards annihilating moral cancers like Iran before they metastasize into a cataclysm of vicious theocratic domination with unimaginable loss of life.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 1:46 Comments || Top||

#4  Bush hasn't rattled the saber against either NK or Syria. All we had before was Rummy and Colin using the term, "unhelpful."

I honestly think he will give them a two hour warning before the Stealth planes are over thier targets. Whether they evacuate is up to them.
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 2:14 Comments || Top||

#5  And so it begins...
Posted by: someone || 04/22/2004 2:26 Comments || Top||

#6  If not us....who?
If not now...when?
Posted by: Halfass Pete || 04/22/2004 3:45 Comments || Top||

#7  Right on, someone. Bush checked the box.

So, Zenster, when will you be able to bring yourself to even write "President Bush did the right thing. Kudos!" Still got that "shrub" and "stolen election" shit buzzing around your skull? One result is your "circle it 40 times before you touch it" style - so common among those simply incapable of giving credit where due. Therapy. It could work.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 6:27 Comments || Top||

#8  heh be nice, don't rub it in :-p
Posted by: dcreeper || 04/22/2004 9:05 Comments || Top||

#9  PD is back!
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:48 Comments || Top||

#10  .com, any moron with half a brain (I know, this leaves out a lot of politicians), is able to figure out that Iran has, is and will continue to be a threat until it undergoes regime change.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 14:29 Comments || Top||

#11  "Iran has, is and will continue to be a threat until it undergoes regime change."

Granted - without hesitation. But how many of them (politicians) actually have the will to DO anything about Iran?

Certainly not anyone on the scene with any chance of becoming the President of the United States of America -- except President Bush, whether you agree or not consciously, you know it's true in your gut. Your glaring inability to credit him speaks ill of you - and calls into question your honesty - and this little inconvenience is apparent to everyone here. Believe it.

Credit Where Due. I am, simply put, amazed how often you applaud US efforts, which come at George W Bush's direction, to face the evils which you voluminously decry, yet can't take this tiny step. Sigh. It's quite sad, actually.

Good luck with your internal struggles. I "converted" myself, just after 9/11, so I recognize it's not simple. Obviously, I didn't have quite so far to go. Dennis Miller opined once regards child abusers, "Well you're just gonna have to lean into the strike zone - and take one for the home team." Perhaps you should consider this option.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 15:14 Comments || Top||

#12  .com, I appreciate your efforts to make more appropriate commentary upon my contributions.

Discriminatory horsesh!t like the DOMA reflect an intolerance exceeded only by the Islamists. Trying to graft religious commandment onto the constitution of our secular nation is tantamount to treason in my book.

I have been able to get a lot of information out of this site which has helped illuminate much that goes unreported by the major media carriers. This is something I enjoy and appreciate immensely.

Fighting ignorance is one of our greatest moral obligations in life. I don't see that as being the oval office's top priority and that shapes my opinions.

I "converted" myself, just after 9/11, so I recognize it's not simple.

This sort of honesty upon your part goes a lot farther than deprecatory insults. Do not think for one minute that I am free of any turmoil in this situation either.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 15:49 Comments || Top||

#13  Zenster - well said. This is, indeed, more constructive. But it cuts both ways - recall it began with your shrubbery comment. So now we've both poked a nasty bear in the eye! Honestly, I had to eat an entire flock of crows regards Bush. I "outted" myself on RB about a year ago regards this little epiphany. He certainly failed to impress me prior to 9/11... but IMHO he put on the big shoes - and grew into them amazingly quickly. I was floored as I'd thought him a privileged cream-puff before then. I kept asking myself if I would've adapted to the new reality that fast - and been willing to eat all of my prior remarks against nation-building, etc. He did it, to my amazement. Same with his views and treatment of the UN. Truly ballsy to turn himself 90 deg and take the full wrath of the entire establishment press. Even more impressive is that he did it just because it was the right thing to do - politically it was almost suicide, and may yet turn out to be so. I have business experience with a certain kind of leader - and Bush is of this type. They suck at the details, but excel at the vision thing - and have some indefinable ability to bring others along with them and imbue them with the vision. Charm, charisma, I don't quite think either is accurate, but there's something. Yeah, I know that's vague, but I've seen it up close and it's remarkable. The killer punchline is that, notwithstanding the fact that they can't match me technically - and that leaves a sense of uneasiness in a purely left-brained jerk like me, they turn out to be right - the vision is accurate and effective. Boggles. Okay, sorry. Nuff said - I hope you are converted before November! This world demands so much of us - the US - and I don't see anyone else willing to step up besides the US, nor anyone else delivering on our behalf besides Bush. :-)
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 16:33 Comments || Top||

#14  Okay, sorry.

Nothing to apologize for, .com. I'm glad we're able to engage more constructively now. Again, I appreciate you giving me an insight into your own position on this. The free exchange of ideas is what goes farthest towards disspelling ignorance.

There is little way for me to effectively communicate my displeasure regarding those who have not taken the time to educate themselves about the terrorism. This is one of the few sites I've found where this dire threat is taken seriously.

The revelations I have found here about the Food-for-Oil scandal are completely reshaping my ideas about why there was so much international opposition to ousting Saddam. None of my conclusions about this are very complimentry.

I have yet to see America's republican party get back to embracing properly conservative ideals such as less government interference with individual rights. Most revolting of all is their unholy alliance with the religious right. The infusion of religious fundamentalism that has occured of late is one of the most disturbing chain of events in recent memory. America's continuing greatness hinges upon its secular foundations.

I am astonished at how few people comprehend that routinely evoking God and painting the United States as a Christian nation merely paints crosshairs on every American back. This nation requires no such swaddling of our cause in clerical garb. Leave that to the Islamists.

When all of that changes, my opinion may as well but not until then.

Again, thank you, .com, for taking the time to look past our differences. Thank goodness we live in a country where we can agree to disagree. Rest assured that I would defend to the death your right to disagree with me.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 17:40 Comments || Top||

#15  Zenster/.com: Why can't we all just get along?
Posted by: Tibor || 04/22/2004 18:34 Comments || Top||

#16  Why can't we all just get along?

Because morons like Osama bin Laden and Rodney King keep getting born.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 19:17 Comments || Top||

#17  Zenster - I'm an atheist. A real one, heh. I had to swallow a lot of my own bile - not pleasant at all. But I did it because when I scanned the list, only one concern, one issue, was for all the marbles. Boiled down, most of the rest were about what color the recently-invented wheel should be, to paraphrase Douglas Adams. Or, in the same vein, the approved options made no sense, such as burning down the forest to make a "monetary" supply of leaves more valuable. They were trivial and transient. So I don't care about "under God" or "In God We Trust" - sure, if it floats their boat.

I came to this as a "ruleset" for others:
"If it helps you sleep at night, doesn't hurt anyone else, and you don't play missionary, I do not care what you believe. Knock yourself out."

The ruleset I apply to myself is a tad tougher:
Never buy your own bullshit.
Keep your word or keep you mouth shut.
Be an asset or be gone.
etc.

The experiences I had in the ME and Asia made trivial issues simply fall away - leaving only the WoT as worthy. In Saudi, I was literally converted from a wide-eyed romantic seeking an Arabian adventure to the hardcore hardass anti-Izzoid I am today - and believe me, I edit my posts very heavily so I don't alienate too many. I used to be excoriated regularly here in RB for advocating, um, "harsh" actions. Yeah, harsh.

Now I think you and I should jump this Tibor guy and whomp 'im. Group hug, huh? Hug this you touchy-feely do-gooder! ;->
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 19:46 Comments || Top||

#18  The ruleset I apply to myself is a tad tougher:
Never buy your own bullshit.
Keep your word or keep you mouth shut.
Be an asset or be gone.


There's another one that's been a big help to me ever since 9/11: never confuse what you know, with what you can only suspect.

Part of the difficulty in staying on an even keel these days is that much of this war we've been fighting is being fought in shadows; and much of the dearth of good, hard information is due to our leadership having to play its cards close to the vest to keep the enemy guessing--the problem being, it keeps us guessing, too, and that's a bitch (at least for me).

I find it helps to draw a sharp distinction between those things I know, and those things I only hope/fear/suspect are[n't] true--and of the latter, to let go of that urgent need to believe I actually know what's going on, and accept the fact that I probably won't know for a long time.
Posted by: Dave D. || 04/22/2004 20:05 Comments || Top||

#19  #4 - SuperHose - unhelpful

He he he - Them's code words.

Better get under the desk Mr Mullah.

Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 20:28 Comments || Top||

#20  Dave - I have a card in my wallet my daughter gave to me. It says, "If you think you know what's going on, you're probably full of shit." Mea culpa, heh.

I have a variation of your saying that goes, "Know the difference between what you know and what you believe; between what you need and what you want. And keep it straight, dumbass!" The first half isn't too far off of yours.

And you're dead right: even after an event occurs, we'll never fully know or understand all that went into it nor the full ramifications of the outcome. And it is, indeed, damned hard to accept how helpless we often are. I consider this dilemma to be both the greatest strength and greatest weakness of the American mindset. We believe, often rightly so, that we can change things - and there is a confidence that comes from somewhere that encourages us to take on the challenge - even if we're alone against the world. But being helpless is something for which we are poorly equipped... and in the end methinks that's actually a damned good trade-off!
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 20:42 Comments || Top||

#21  But I did it because when I scanned the list, only one concern, one issue, was for all the marbles.

You can bet that this one is keeping me awake nights too. Not since communism or the Nazis has this world face such a dire and perfectly polarized threat. Those who pretend there is any middle ground on this are among some of the (second) most dangerous people alive.

To give the bear one last poke, I hope you have had time to reconsider any accusations of trollery or plagiarism. Our goals have a lot more in common than you might suspect.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 22:05 Comments || Top||

#22  "I hope you have had time to reconsider any accusations of trollery or plagiarism. Our goals have a lot more in common than you might suspect."
Only if you're willing to admit you were wrong when you disrespectfully called our President "Shrub."
Make no mistake, all of the "get tough" policies WRT Islamist terrorism that you keep yelling about here on RB will involve having President "Shrub" at the helm.
Posted by: Jen || 04/22/2004 22:11 Comments || Top||

#23  Zenster - I agree with your threat assessment.

Regards my accusations - it was the illogically incongruous differences between posts and stated beliefs that left me no rational alternative to troll. You came into RB full of bile and bullshit - whether you acknowledge it or not is irrelevant. If you recall, I initially reacted with a calm request for clarification... a challenge, certainly, but without invective. I didn't jump on you - you were doing the jumping. And no one here had a clue who or what the fuck you were about. IMO, you should pocket your pride and accept your own role in how this transpired. The posts are back there that bear me out.

I didn't accuse you of plagiarism - at least I don't think so. Anyway, I'll happily withdraw any and all epithets and apologize for them in exchange for your simply acknowledging that President Bush deserves credit for what he has done. It's obvious fact, so I'm not asking much. And he's done it in the face of the most vile and extreme opposition. I don't love him, but I sure as hell respect him.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 22:44 Comments || Top||

#24  Dotcom, I hope it hasn't escaped your keen notice that the prolifically posting Zipster--uh--didn't exactly do his bit to make nice by posting his deferent reply to either of us.
So I guess he still denigrates and disrespects President Bush and his Administration...
which makes everything he says null and void in my book.
Posted by: Jen || 04/23/2004 3:36 Comments || Top||

#25  Anyway, I'll happily withdraw any and all epithets and apologize for them in exchange for your simply acknowledging that President Bush deserves credit for what he has done.

.com, your points are extremely well made. Right now, I can only give credit to the White House's senior staff, they alone seem to exude any vision. I do not perceive sufficient competence in the oval office to persuade me of any extreme gratitude or respect.

Permit me to share a joke that might not be so well received here abouts.

Back when the Taleban were getting their collective @sses properly kicked, I was obliged to joke about how glad I was for just this once that there was a "gun toting yahoo" in the White House.

Because of discriminatory, religious bias that I perceive as unforgivable for any American commander in chief, I am unable to withdraw that joke's label even today.

Please know that my punchline was always followed with a just-as-quick crack concerning the glacial response time Gore would have shown. This is not apologist twaddle, it is fact.

Again, I fully understand that this one is for all the marbles. It is a principal reason that I am here at this site gathering information. I cannot believe the dismissive attitude so many people have about the crisis of global terrorism. It is a threat that transcends all partisan and religious lines.

However, I cannot permit this war on terror to transgress certain limits within my own beloved nation. Ensconcing discrimination and blurring any separation of church and state are among them. You cannot possibly imagine the turmoil that arises in my core as I try to reconcile these factors. This moral conflict is, in a word, unimaginable.

.com, if I have falsely accused you of anything, I withdraw it as well. You have taken the time to establish some sort of rapport with someone who is renowned for being abrasively outspoken. For that, I thank you.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/23/2004 3:55 Comments || Top||

#26  "Right now, I can only give credit to the White House's senior staff, they alone seem to exude any vision. I do not perceive sufficient competence in the oval office to persuade me of any extreme gratitude or respect."
Dotcom, there you have it.
And he put this up after I wrote my reply to you, hours and hours later and after he'd made tons of his inane posts on other threads.
Looks like he wants your esteem bad.
But won't President Bush be crushed that the remarkable Zipster doesn't admire and respect him, even though the President is doing everything Zippy professes to want from the WOT and then some.
Posted by: Jen || 04/23/2004 4:08 Comments || Top||

#27  Zenster - That's easily the longest "no can do" I've ever seen. How sad. There's something truly bizarre at work when you can't acknowledge reality. I think they call it fantasy.

Jen - we're talking to a wall here, methinks. Hey I didn't ask much. I guess we're gonna just have to cancel out his vote and put one in the jug for the Prez!
Posted by: .com || 04/23/2004 4:10 Comments || Top||


Terror Networks
New Terror Threat Targets 8 U.S. Allies
EFL
A self-proclaimed "anti-American" group is threatening terrorist attacks against eight U.S. allies by the end of the month, including South Korea, Japan, Australia and the Pakistan, a South Korean official said Thursday. The group, called the "Yello-Red Overseas Organization," warned in a one-page letter sent to the South Korean Embassy in Thailand that it will launch the attacks through April 30, embassy spokesman Ryoo Jung-young told The Associated Press.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 7:43:01 AM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Yello-Red Overseas Organization - Crayola Brigade
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 11:55 Comments || Top||

#2  Actually, they're probably Chinese Communists.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/22/2004 12:43 Comments || Top||

#3  ..And still no mention of the Chartreuse - Champagne Homeboys Association.
Makes me want to roll my eyes and seethe...

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski || 04/22/2004 12:47 Comments || Top||

#4  Let's ship them the night-vision video from the helicopter in Fallujah - Very instructive.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 12:49 Comments || Top||

#5  "it will launch the attacks through April 30"
and then it will break through May 15 to cool off and seethe, followed by a spate of issuing more warnings up to July 20th, when it will attack more US allies, then break for tea until the summer heat wave passes.

Jihad on a schedule! Watch out you have been warned!
Posted by: Craig || 04/22/2004 16:29 Comments || Top||


Home Front: Culture Wars
Vandalizing Religious Facilities Now a Two-Sided Game in New Jersey
The New Jersey office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-NJ) today called on local and national law enforcement authorities to investigate the latest vandalism at a mosque construction site in that state as a possible hate crime. CAIR-NJ said vandals drew Nazi swastikas over the weekend on the Islamic Center of Ocean County under construction in Toms River, N.J. They also punched holes in the newly-erected walls of the mosque and left obscene and racist graffiti such as "hail Hitler." In addition, the perpetrators damaged the frame of the building and broke windows on a trailer at the site.

Mosque officials told CAIR-NJ that six previous attacks on the mosque have included uprooting plumbing, setting fire to the mosque sign and trailer, breaking windows, and tearing down walls. Damage from all of these incidents combined is estimated at $10,000 to 15,000. Local police have promised to consider installing surveillance cameras at the site and to increase patrols. "We all suffer when any house of worship is desecrated," said CAIR-NJ Executive Director Faiza Ali. "This vandalism seems to be part of an alarming increase in Islamophobic acts nationwide."
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 04/22/2004 11:03:56 PM || Comments || Link || [10 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "CAIR officials had no comment when asked about the paint splatters, dust and soot on their suits."
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats || 04/22/2004 23:06 Comments || Top||

#2  It's amazing how thin-skinned these guys are when they're on the receiving end of that which their brethren so readily dish out.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/22/2004 23:18 Comments || Top||

#3  "If you don't arrest some Jooos, we'll destroy another synagogue"

"oops"
Posted by: Frank G || 04/22/2004 23:18 Comments || Top||

#4 
"We all suffer when any house of worship is desecrated," said CAIR-NJ Executive Director Faiza Ali.
"Unless that house of worship belongs to the Joooos, of course. Then it's OK."
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 04/22/2004 23:18 Comments || Top||

#5  Maybe they should spend some time thinking about why they're so hated.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 04/22/2004 23:36 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine
Arafat Expels 20 Militants From Compound
By RAVI NESSMAN, Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM - Yasser Arafat expelled 20 boy toys wanted militants from his compound Thursday in an apparent bid to forestall an Israeli Hellfire enema raid, a further sign the Palestinian leader fears he might become of use to mankind for once a target himself.
 
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, meanwhile, backed away from a promise to honor an upcoming vote by his Likud party on a proposal to withdraw from the Gaza Strip, senior government officials said. A new poll showed shrinking scrotes in the muqata support for the plan.
All those warm bodies were creating a significant infrared signature. Rumor has it that Arafat is now wearing a bomber’s vest stuffed with ice packs.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 8:31:48 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq-Jordan
Welcome Home Party for 4th ID - the Saddam guys
150 media people there and about 10-15 satellite TV trucks
PBS has been covering live -- watch at 8:00pm EST for a wrap-up show

FORT HOOD, Texas - At the Army’s largest post, a welcome-home celebration for members of the 4th Infantry Division and other returning units is planned as relatives of other soldiers wounded or killed in Iraq deal with suffering and grief. Texas cattle raisers are donating about 30,000 barbecue sandwiches for the "Task Force Ironhorse" bash on Thursday. Scheduled entertainment includes Randy Travis, Tracy Byrd, John Michael Montgomery, Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Undertake, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Eddie Griffin, Bruce Bruce, the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, the New England Patriots Cheerleaders, MercyMe, Wayne Newton, Drew Carey, Jessica Simpson, Ludacris and many more!
Well deserved, guys and gals!!!
Also -- Geraldo Rivera said on his Fox News program that he would be there so check for him on Thursday and also on his Saturday and Sunday night programs on Fox News.
Posted by: Sherry || 04/22/2004 5:56:34 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Holy macanarsels. I bet every business in Kileen, TX is on red alert, and that every Lone Star beer truck in the State is enroute. I also bet that in about nine months...
Posted by: Anonymous || 04/22/2004 18:14 Comments || Top||


Baathists Allowed Back Into Iraq Government/Military
The White House confirmed Thursday that the administration is moving to change a postwar policy that blocked members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party from Iraqi government and military positions. The sweeping ban was put in place by civilian administrator Paul Bremer, but he now wants to change the policy as part of an effort to convince Sunnis, who dominate the party, that they are welcome members of the postwar political transition in Iraq. There also have been complaints that the ban has kept teachers, engineers, well-trained technocrats and experienced military officers out of the difficult postwar transition. In Baghdad, Coalition Provisional Authority spokesman Dan Senor acknowledged the ban "sometimes excludes innocent, capable people who were Baathists in name only from playing a role in reconstructing Iraq. "Those are the sorts of people for which there was a process built in to allow exceptions, to allow appeals, but the exceptions and appeals process doesn't do anybody any good if it is not expeditious," Senor said.
Posted by: sludj || 04/22/2004 16:12 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Baathist = Arab Nazi. This makes about as much sense as allowing Nazis back into the postwar German government and Bundeswehr. Maybe it really is time for Bremer to be replaced.
Posted by: RWV || 04/22/2004 17:42 Comments || Top||

#2  I actually think this makes sense. Not all Baathists were Sadaam's raping henchmen, I'm sure those types won't be allowed to participate. The rest have been told to sit in the corner for a year, and are now being invited back in if they will play nice and know their place. No threat that they can dominate (given the Shia majority), but this may pacify the Sunnis a bit. It could be a win-win: reduce the agitation against the new government by allowing a potential group of agitators to participate in the government (rather than try to pull it apart), while at the same time putting their skills and experience to work against other groups of agitators. I could be wrong, but that is my take.
Posted by: sludj || 04/22/2004 17:49 Comments || Top||

#3  The sweeping ban was put in place by civilian administrator Paul Bremer, but he now wants to change the policy as part of an effort to convince Sunnis, who dominate the party, that they are welcome members of the postwar political transition in Iraq.

Memo to Sadr and other Shi'ites:

Due to their cooperative stance, the Kurds are beginning to fill top spots in Iraq's new government. (Minority hiring policies at work.)

Recruitment of Sunni resources has started as well. (Even Baathists are more welcome than Shiites.)

Keep up the hostilities and your only role in the new Iraqi government will be as interns. (Only in the most Clintonesque sense though.)
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 18:20 Comments || Top||

#4  This makes about as much sense as allowing Nazis back into the postwar German government and Bundeswehr.

Hey, the Nazis built our space program so we could put the Soviets in their place with ICBMs and moonwalks. Maybe the Sunnis can make themselves of use. Something tells me they'll be under one helluva magnifying glass as things go forward.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 18:23 Comments || Top||

#5  This experiment will be interesting. One thing that should be discarded is the comparison to the Nazis - they were Germans. Well educated, competent, and children of the West - social ideology did not negatively impact these facts. Except for the very top level of the Nazi hierarchy, few kept positions solely because of their ideological purity. Sure, there were a few exceptions, but only a few. The trains running on time was a helluvalot more important than ass-kissing to the Nazi leadership -- because they really believed in their ideology and didn't need to be bribed to be loyal. Nazi officials were already well-kept - so competence in their charges was more valuable.

The Soviets never figured this out and were simply corrupt thugs and sycophants, none of them believed in their so-called ideology.

Sunni Iraqis are a different animal entirely. Tribalism, family status, reliability -- these are infinitely more important in the Arab world than mere competence. The "leadership" may be better trained, certainly it was in Saddam's interest that they have some grasp of their jobs, but they do not match up to the Nazis in any worthwhile way. Any salutory effect is likely to be based on those old Arab motivation "values": family, tribe, sect. Some effect is possible. Dramatic effects, not a chance.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 22:19 Comments || Top||

#6  This seems like an application of "Keep your friends close and your enemy closer."
Posted by: Tibor || 04/22/2004 23:11 Comments || Top||

#7  You know, Gen. George Patton thought it was a good idea to put the Nazis back in positions of power (like policemen and town administrators).
He took a lot of heat for it, but he wasn't dumb.
Bremer may be borrowing from his playbook and also thinking along the lines of what Tibor said.
Posted by: Jen || 04/23/2004 8:24 Comments || Top||


Baghdad to get an "all-seeing eye"
Or truly, Allah will be watching
A huge balloon used for surveillance will be on its way from Akron to Baghdad this summer. An Akron-based division of Lockheed Martin introduced the aerostat Tuesday, which is filled with helium and tethered to the ground by high-strength cables. The Army says the aerostat will hover about 2,500 feet over Baghdad and will carry electro/optic-infrared sensors. Officials say the aerostat and sensor will be tested in Arizona in June and then will be sent to Iraq in July. The deflated balloon can fit in an 8-foot box and weighs 1,200 pounds. Lockheed Martin program director Warren Morrison says it can keep track of a 100-mile diameter area.
Posted by: Sherry || 04/22/2004 5:31:54 PM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I love it. It'll drive the hajiis absolutely bugshit.
Posted by: Dave D. || 04/22/2004 17:34 Comments || Top||

#2 
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 04/22/2004 17:38 Comments || Top||

#3  What's the effective range of an RPG? Hopefully it will be too cool to be a viable target for an SA-7, but every rifleman in town will be plinking away at this thing. If Lockheed didn't make it bulletproof, I hope they bring lots of patches.
Posted by: RWV || 04/22/2004 17:38 Comments || Top||

#4  RWH -- thanks for asking -- that was my question also -- Surely, Lockheed knows what they are doing! Who's got answers?
Posted by: Sherry || 04/22/2004 17:42 Comments || Top||

#5  Yosemite Sam, lol. Headline: "Bagdad renamed 'Mordor;' Bush to Replace President's Daily Briefing with Gazing into Palantir."
Posted by: sludj || 04/22/2004 17:44 Comments || Top||

#6  The max effective range of an RPG-7 is anywhere from 300m to 500m depending on whose website you believe. There is a difference between the max range and the max effective range. The max effective range for an M-16A2 is about 800m, but if you elevate the barrel to 45 degrees, a round will fly 2653m.

In Vietnam, the rule of thumb was for command gunships to fly at 3000 ft above ground level to avoid ground fire. My guess is that an RPG wouldn't even get close, but that a .50cal or 14.5mm MG might be able to tag it. A SAM 7 would be usless since it needs a strong infrared signature/
Posted by: 11A5S || 04/22/2004 17:55 Comments || Top||

#7  Bullet proof umbrellas. Fashionable. Many colors. Patented. I have a working model. Any investors??
Posted by: Rafael || 04/22/2004 18:06 Comments || Top||

#8  Yosemite, thanks for the itchy red butthole.
Posted by: Zpaz || 04/22/2004 18:33 Comments || Top||

#9  No doubt the aerostat will attract marksmen of all stripes and weaponry. Anyone here familar with the "Fat Albert" project headed up by VP Bush in the 80s? It was a drug interdiction radar mounted under a fat balloon tethered to the ground. The first one was deployed at Cape Canaveral and the next one was in Key West. The latter became a favorite target of gunners in speed boats. I can't recall if they were ever sucessful in bringing it down or disabling the radar.
Posted by: GK || 04/22/2004 18:33 Comments || Top||

#10  I was in South Carolina when they started deploying Fat Albert, working at a Tac Recce squadron. We didn't even get a worthwhile daily newspaper, but always knew when the drug dealers got a new delivery, because the number of roadside "shrimp" salesmen tripled. I transferred from there to Omaha, Nebraska, and we heard about how many targets were identified every night by "Fat Albert - into the HUNDREDS! Nine out of ten were decoys. Finally the Feds wised up - the fast guys were coming in, dumping the stuff with buoys attached, and leaving. THE NEXT DAY, slow guys would go out, tag the buoys, and bring the stuff in. Started making some big busts for awhile, until the drug bunch changed operations again.

Same thing will happen in Baghdad. The first month or two, the bad guys will target the balloon, and the good guys will whack 'em. The next few months, the bad guys will lay low, devising new tactics. Then we'll have a spate of ops, the good guys will find a counter, and we'll go around again. I think this thing will help, I think it's probably at least semi-self-sealing (otherwise, it's self-defeating), and it's probably a good thing. It'll take some getting used to. It'll make some people angry, some people nervous, and a few people scared. It may help whack some bad guys, which won't be a bad thing. If it makes life better for a few people, it's done its job.
Posted by: Old Patriot || 04/22/2004 19:44 Comments || Top||

#11  I just hope someone thought to make it look like a giant pig.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 04/22/2004 19:57 Comments || Top||

#12  RC Lol! Well that should settle the nickname - it's gotta be Porky!
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 19:59 Comments || Top||

#13  Put some snipers up there on it. No amount of cowering behind a wall will help the Jihadi's then.
Posted by: Charles || 04/22/2004 20:23 Comments || Top||

#14  #11 I just hope someone thought to make it look like a giant pig.


Bu-be-de-ya be-de-ya be-de-ya
That's all folks!
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 20:30 Comments || Top||

#15  Feds have had an Aerostat at Ft.Hauchuca(Home of the Buffalo Soldiers) for years,damned effective at spotting low flying smuglers.
Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 22:11 Comments || Top||


Marine snipers have terrified the Iraqi fighters
Marines cheered the explosions from their helicopters’ missiles and taunted and cursed at enemy sniper fire. Many seemed glad the shooting had started again. When the second 500-pound bomb exploded and sent slabs of concrete and chunks of walls hundreds of feet in the air in a huge fireball, the troops hollered like teenagers at a showing of the "Terminator."

Cease-fire appears moot
The fighting also seemed to demolish the pretense of a cease-fire that has kept thousands of Marines out of the heart of the city for more than 10 days while a thousand or more insurgents are thought to remain trapped inside. Marine officials earlier this week gave Iraqi leaders until Friday to get insurgents to turn in their heavy weapons and turn over those who killed and mutilated four American security contractors on March 31. Few seemed to hold out much hope the Americans’ demands would be sufficiently met to dissuade the troops from launching a final assault on the city. And Wednesday’s six-hour battle proved that the Marines are still on the move and the insurgents are far from disarmed.

"I wonder what this means to the peace talks?" Capt. Kyle Stoddard, commander of Fox Company, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, wondered aloud Wednesday as both sides volleyed mortars over the no man’s land between them that has provided a buffer for most of the last two weeks. Stoddard and the other troops on the front line never received a definitive answer on the status of the talks. By the end of the day, when gunfire again erupted and a nearby mortar blast shook his compound, Stoddard commented laconically, "No, it looks like we’re still just talking."

Battle began at dawn
The first shots crackled at about 5:45 a.m. Wednesday as the 2nd Battalion’s Echo Company moved south into the city to clear homes forward of their positions in the northwest corner of the city — the bloodied ground of some of the fiercest fighting that began on April 5. Insurgents raked the advancing Marines with machine-gun fire, then fired rocket-propelled grenades that exploded against walls. Echo’s infantrymen answered with a barrage of small-arms fire and launched volleys of grenades whose explosions sent a thunderous roar reverberating across the city, shrouded beneath a compact ceiling of low clouds. "These boys definitely want to come out and play this morning!" said Sgt. Warren Hardy, 26, of Colorado Springs, as he watched the red glow of a rocket-propelled grenade sail overhead and crash near a Marine position about 200 yards away.

As if set to accompany their counterattack, insurgents blared militant chants from a mosque set just behind the line of fighting. A translator with the Marines said the singing called residents to "stand up and fight," "join the uprising," and "drive out the infidels." The Marines broadcast their own message that resistance was futile and that Marine snipers — whom intelligence reports say have terrified the Iraqi fighters — held the insurgents in their sights.

Choppers under heavy fire
When an attacking Cobra helicopter took intense fire from the area of another mosque nearby, it fired a Hellfire missile, taking a bite out of the towering minaret. The AH-1 Cobra and a UH-1 Huey returned again and again to rake the neighborhood with machine-gun fire, rockets and missiles. When troops reported spotting armed men running back and forth into and out of buildings about 1,000 yards south of their lines, snipers worked methodically to pick off the runners while helicopters circled wide back onto targets marked by white phosphorous mortar rounds. Air controllers guided in F-16 fighter jets from the clouds and pointed out an enemy stronghold with a laser beamed from a rooftop more than 1,000 meters away. "We’re going to have bombs on the deck in two minutes," warned an air controller from a rooftop where Marines were returning fire into the hollow windows of the sea of brick buildings where insurgents moved with ease. At 9:20 a.m., the first 500-pound bomb slammed into a building near a rebel-held mosque where Marines said that for days they’d watched insurgents stockpiling what they thought were weapons. When tremendous clouds of smoke and dust cleared, the skyline was forever changed: the building vanished from sight.

"They seem to have an affinity for the area around the mosque," said Marine air controller Capt. Roy "Woody" Moore, of Fairfield, Conn., who helped guide the bombs onto their targets Wednesday. "They returned to the spot a couple of days after we hit it and started running their operations out of there — so we hit it again," he said, adding that hours after the fight, his adrenaline still had him "wound up" tight. "Today they were shooting at us from there so they kinda made it easy." The sound of gunfire and the nearby impact of mortars have become so commonplace at this edge of the embattled city that Marines barely flinched when projectiles hit buildings and crashed into two cemeteries fewer than 200 yards away. While officially they have not received orders to move to take the city, Marines privately said the fighting Wednesday ensured that a final assault would be the only way to stamp out what they describe as the town’s stubborn core of local insurgents and foreign fighters.
Posted by: Sherry || 04/22/2004 4:31:14 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  That the people involved in the fighting weren't involved in any talks about a cease-fire pretty much made it moot from the get-go.
Posted by: eLarson || 04/22/2004 16:36 Comments || Top||

#2  "They seem to have an affinity for the area around the mosque," said Marine air controller Capt. Roy "Woody" Moore, of Fairfield, Conn., who helped guide the bombs onto their targets Wednesday.

What a coincidence: so do our JDAMs.
Posted by: exploding diplomacy || 04/22/2004 16:38 Comments || Top||

#3  Ceasefires. Negotiations. Pfeh. It's sad to watch the clueless, so desperate to try to rehab or negotiate with insane and vicious barbarians - whether it's a gang-raised crack dealer or a hardened madrassah-trained jihadi. These "people" don't subscribe to the same ruleset, so all the talking is at cross-purposes and the hand-wringing is just wasted motion to salve the conscious mind - freeing you, finally, to take the action your subconscious settled upon the instant the need arose. Poor misguided social engineers - they must eat lots of Rolaids - and never understand why.

If it's all grown up - and it's broken, well, you're just gonna have to kill it.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 16:50 Comments || Top||

#4  A translator with the Marines said the singing called residents to "stand up and fight," "join the uprising," and "drive out the infidels."
and
The Marines broadcast their own message that resistance was futile and that Marine snipers ---- whom intelligence reports say have terrified the Iraqi fighters ---- held the insurgents in their sights.
This leads to :
A chant that goes "I hear the virgins calling", "I'm ready for peeled grapes", "Those infidels have me in pieces"

Negotiations my a**

Go marines.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 16:59 Comments || Top||

#5  When an attacking Cobra helicopter took intense fire from the area of another mosque nearby, it fired a Hellfire missile, taking a bite out of the towering minaret.

One can only hope that they finished the job and reduced the mosque to a pile of rubble.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/22/2004 17:08 Comments || Top||

#6  Air controllers guided in F-16 fighter jets from the clouds and pointed out an enemy stronghold with a laser beamed from a rooftop more than 1,000 meters away.

Damn. These guys are all going to die. I can't believe they don't know this.
Posted by: Cthulhu Akbar || 04/22/2004 17:11 Comments || Top||

#7  Air controllers guided in F-16 fighter jets...

This is what should be done more often. I hope they level the place before going for the final assault.
Posted by: Rafael || 04/22/2004 17:51 Comments || Top||

#8  War sucks. I speak from experience.

Would to God I could be young again.
Posted by: Michael || 04/22/2004 17:59 Comments || Top||

#9  Insurgents attacked American positions with ill-aimed mortar and rocket fire throughout the morning and, after a five-hour lull, attacked again with mortars and rocket-propelled grenades during the afternoon prayer time.

Whoa! Aren't these ultra-pious Muslims supposed to be congregated in their mosque at prayer time? Do you mean to say they're afraid of clustering up like that in one of their inviolable holy places?

As if set to accompany their counterattack, insurgents blared militant chants from a mosque set just behind the line of fighting.

Geez, a call to arms like any other propaganda center. Guess that's not a mosque after all.

[out of sequence] When an attacking Cobra helicopter took intense fire from the area of another mosque nearby, it fired a Hellfire missile, taking a bite out of the towering minaret.

There goes the high ground.

Marine snipers ---- whom intelligence reports say have terrified the Iraqi fighters ---- held the insurgents in their sights.

Why are the insurgents so terrified? After all, our incompetent snipers have been slaughtering "civilians" left and right, not them. Do you mean to say that some of those "civilians" were actually fighters? Well then, maybe it is about time they were more than little terrified.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 18:09 Comments || Top||

#10  I was aborn to soon and joined the wrong force. Get 19 for me and Tennessee.
Posted by: Sgt York || 04/22/2004 18:11 Comments || Top||

#11  Question, would napalm fry the bad guys and suck the air out of the Mosque without doing much damage except blackening the masonary? Or would the pressure wave knock down walls and such?

Seems a nice way to respect the mosque and wipe out the bad guys it the building doesn't get knocked over in the process. Certainly we could cook up some napalm quick enough if we had the need.
Posted by: ruprecht || 04/22/2004 18:12 Comments || Top||

#12  I can't wait for the movie about this battle...We have yet to hear a complete tactical play by play, but I think the role of the marine sniper has to be a serious bummer on the other side of the football. Round the clock attrition of command, control and resupply.
Posted by: Capsu78 || 04/22/2004 18:16 Comments || Top||

#13  Question, would napalm fry the bad guys and suck the air out of the Mosque without doing much damage except blackening the masonary? Or would the pressure wave knock down walls and such?

It's why we invented neutron bombs.

I'm wondering if there's some way of dropping a large cryogenic tank of nitrogen with a dispersal charge and simply suffocating the idjits.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 18:37 Comments || Top||

#14  War sucks, so does killing bad guys even when they deserve it. (Especially up close and personal).

Its those things I did and was glad to have done, but will be even more glad to not have to do it again.

And I hope to God that Bush & company finish it this time out, and dont leave my kids to finish the job.
Posted by: OldSpook || 04/22/2004 18:42 Comments || Top||

#15  It was decided by the International Community that Napalm and flame weapons were frowned upon after Vietnam, ruprecht.

I personally have no problem with it. Though, I do have a few words of advice for Sadr and his Tater Tots.

"Don't fear the night.
Fear what hunts the night!"
Posted by: Jack Deth || 04/22/2004 18:43 Comments || Top||

#16  Get 'em boys ;)

These bastards, who use kids and their property, what we call wives here in the civilised world, to hide behind, deserve every thing they are gonna get from the Marines. You all see what the jihadis do around the world, these Iraqi jihadis are no different.
F 'em up.
These throat-slitting, hand amputating, women-stoning, church burning, jew-killing, gang raping, train bombing, killers of kindergartners will get what they deserve, I hope they suffer the way their 'brothers' make people suffer around the world. Send 'em to hell, where they belong.
Posted by: TS || 04/22/2004 19:06 Comments || Top||

#17  It's decaf for you from now on, TS!
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 19:14 Comments || Top||

#18  Zenster, lol
I feel like I had a bonafide rant with that one. :-)
Posted by: TS || 04/22/2004 19:50 Comments || Top||

#19  "And I hope to God that Bush & company finish it this time out, and dont leave my kids to finish the job."

Amen to that, the bottom line of this whole situation.
Posted by: docob || 04/22/2004 20:25 Comments || Top||

#20  If a bird flew from china carrying a grain of sand and dropped it on the Rocky Mountains, over and over and over again, until the Rocky Mountains were worn away from the abrasiveness of the sand........ That is not a drop in the bucket, compared to the length of time those islamic barbarians will spend in a REAL, PHYSICAL, BURNING, TORTUROUS, HELL.
Posted by: Halfass Pete || 04/22/2004 21:03 Comments || Top||

#21  Feel better,TS?

Good.

That is one of the benifits of using FAE ordinance,what structures are not destroyed,the blast wave will suck the O2 right out of the air.
Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 22:23 Comments || Top||

#22  An IWPR reporter went inside of Fallujah. His report indicates that the mosques maybe the distribution points for food to the people that stayed.
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 22:56 Comments || Top||

#23  and ammo?
Posted by: Frank G || 04/22/2004 23:09 Comments || Top||

#24  If they'll hide weapons and seek safety, in schools, among children...they'll hide weapons, among food for the hungry, inside a mosque.
Posted by: Halfass Pete || 04/22/2004 23:14 Comments || Top||

#25  The IWPR reporter Wisam al-Jaff, who is a trainee?
Wonder if trainee means someone they found on the streets of Iraq and paid to go into Fallujah or say he did.
Posted by: TS || 04/22/2004 23:19 Comments || Top||

#26  Jack Deth, I'm sure the Islamic nations would approve of Napalm if it would preserve such a Holy Mosque.
Posted by: ruprecht || 04/22/2004 23:53 Comments || Top||


Caucasus
Russers kill 12 hard boyz in Chechnya
Federal troops have destroyed 12 rebels, including one foreign mercenary, in the south of Chechnya, army spokesman Colonel Ilya Shabalkin told Itar-Tass on Wednesday. He said units of the Russian Defence Ministry had killed the gunmen during reconnaissance and ambush operations in the Vedeno, Sharoi, Shatoi and Itum-Kale districts. According to the staff of the counter-terrorist operation in the North Caucasus, federal forces have destroyed 17 rebel bases, 18 observation points and eight caches containing arms and medicines.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 2:14:49 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Turkish jihadi iced in Chechnya
A Turkish mercenary was killed in a federal special operation in Chechnya's Vedeno district, a military spokesman told Interfax. "The man who was killed had a passport under the name of Turkish citizen Semek Yusif [transliterated from Russian] with a Georgian visa, opened on July 7, 2002; a card of the Turkish Taekwondo Federation, issued in February 1991; a lawyer's card, issued in February 1996; and other documents with Turkish entries," said spokesman Col. Ilya Shabalkin. A Kalashnikov and cartridges were discovered at the scene. "The circumstances of the Turkish citizen's stay in Russia are under investigation," Shabalkin said.
I don't think he was there to set up a Lada dealership...
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 2:14:09 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Khambiyev sez most hard boyz unaware of positive changes
A large part of militants who continue fighting against federal forces are unaware of real positive changes taking place in Chechnya, Magomed Khambiyev, the ex-defence minister of self-proclaimed Ichkeria, told Tass on Thursday. “We must talk openly about what happens in the republic. I could grasp very little of what was happening here while I was hiding in forests. They are in the same situation now. Our task is to convince them, and I think they will give up confrontation. Together with the authorities we will put things at home in order,” Khambiyev said. He said once again that the decision to stop the armed struggle was his personal decision, taken of free will. “It is rumoured now that I made this decision under pressure. This is just not true. I repeat again that any activity without the support of people and friends is pointless. I have come to realise that I will be of more use to my motherland here. I become ever more confident with every day that my decision was right.”
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 1:01:09 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq-Jordan
Don't piss off Marines - You will be dead.
Marine Sgt. Kenneth Conde Jr. didn't even realize he had been shot until someone told him.
That's actually fairly common...
In the mid-afternoon hours of April 6, Conde's unit, 3rd Mobile Assault Platoon, Mobile Assault Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, received orders to help evacuate two Company G casualties wounded during a firefight in the Iraqi city of Ar Ramadi. "There were ambushes going on everywhere," the 22-year-old Conde said. "We were able to get to the casualties and get them loaded up into our vehicle." What was supposed to be a simple in-and-out mission rapidly changed when the 27-man platoon came under fire. Machine gunners laid down suppressive fire from the tops of the trucks and cleared a path for the convoy to maneuver. "The platoon turned down what we call Easy Street," explained the infantryman from Orlando, Fla. "That's when we saw another squad and a company." Marines down that street were engaged in a vicious gun battle with enemy forces. Shots rang out from every direction. There was no way for Conde's convoy to get through without putting up a fight. "There were people everywhere, and we couldn't really tell where the firing was coming from," he said.

Conde knew the Marines couldn't defeat an unseen enemy. He needed to locate the enemy forces before destroying them. Rifle in hand, he headed down the street to do just that. "The insurgents are like ghosts," he said. "They have the element of surprise because they can hide. They see us, but we can't see them. I knew we had to get out to see where they were shooting from." The sergeant called upon Cpl. Jared H. McKenzie and Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Cox to leave their vehicles and follow him to the front of the convoy. "Wherever Sergeant Conde goes, that's where we go," said Cox, of Saint Peters, Mo. "No questions asked. We just follow him."

The three of them darted past the trucks looking for enemy positions on the rooftops. "We walked up to the third block past the vehicles and spotted a guy shooting at us from one of the rooftops," Conde said. "One of the gunners, Lance Corporal Matthew Brown, took that building out with his machine gun." Conde, McKenzie and Cox kept searching for the enemy. They exposed themselves to fire because it was the only way they could get a good look at enemy's firing positions. As they pushed forward, Conde was able to take out two shooters, but then things took a turn for the worse. "I was running, and I watched as I got shot in the left shoulder," Conde said. "I remember seeing a red mist coming from my back."

Even though he saw himself get shot, it didn't occur to Conde to quit fighting. "I didn't really realize I had been shot until one of the Marines said something," he added. According to McKenzie, Conde fired several shots, killing a combatant, before falling to the ground. He then managed to get back to his feet and fire a few more rounds at the enemy before falling again. "We helped him up so he could get to the corpsman to get bandaged up," McKenzie, a 22 year old from Bonaqua, Tenn. "We made sure to kill the guys who shot him."

The corpsman treated Conde, who only wanted to get his gear and get back to the fight. Conde's Marines were out there and he knew his place was alongside them. "We stayed and fought until every one of the insurgents was dead," Conde said. Before the day was through, 3rd MAP also raided the house of a former Baath Party member and seized a large weapons cache.

Over the next few days, Conde's unit participated in several other firefights until the violence died down. All the while, he nursed his wound, not giving into the pain and refusing to leave his Marines. Only when his arm went numb, making it difficult to hold his rifle steady, did he finally give in and step out of the fight. Back at the camp here, Marines asked Conde why he chose to stay and fight even after being shot. "I told them that I couldn't just leave the fight when I still could keep going," he told them.

But his actions didn't surprise his fellow Marines. "He always told us that he would lead us from the front, and that we would never do anything if he wasn't doing it too," Cox explained. "After being in that firefight with him, I will always know that he is true to his word."
Posted by: Rawsnacks || 04/22/2004 11:46 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Yup, our Marines, Gotta love 'em!
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 13:45 Comments || Top||

#2  The asshats in Fallujah just do not have a chance against guys like this. God are they good!
Posted by: remote man || 04/22/2004 13:49 Comments || Top||

#3  Truely Impressive. I hope he gets recognized for his valor.

A real American Hero.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 04/22/2004 14:01 Comments || Top||

#4  A bonified Hero. Awesome!
Posted by: CrazyFool || 04/22/2004 14:05 Comments || Top||

#5  Bravo Zulu, Sgt. Conde!
How can these Idiots with AKs hope to win against esprit and leadership like that?!!!
All the bad guys have accompplished is slowly removing a Marine from the line.
Thus creating a platoon of Marines looking for Payback!

OUTSTANDING!
Posted by: Jack Deth || 04/22/2004 14:45 Comments || Top||

#6  Makes ya proud don't it :)
Posted by: djohn66 || 04/22/2004 14:46 Comments || Top||

#7  "Ok, Mahmoud... here's yer AK-47, yer ammo clips, and yer bandanna. Yer all set. Oh, and don't shoot at Sgt Conde."

"I thought you said this was a jihad against the evil US-Zionist oppressor-invaders?"

"Yeah, but Conde will take it personal if you shoot him."
Posted by: Cthulhu Akbar || 04/22/2004 14:59 Comments || Top||

#8  I think I saw Sgt Conde and his squad on the news last night. They were showing a firefight with a Sgt who had pink blood smears from his left shoulder to elbow. He was still fighting and patrolling.
Posted by: ed || 04/22/2004 15:11 Comments || Top||

#9  I hope a few bad guys escape Fallujah alive to spread the word about the Marines and the American soldiers and how its a bad idea to underestimate them. Its sad that the US has to prove this every once in a while because everyone thinks were soft, life would be much easier if the bad guys realized that the last poor bastards thought we were soft two and look what happened to them.
Posted by: ruprecht || 04/22/2004 15:36 Comments || Top||

#10 
"We stayed and fought until every one of the insurgents was dead," Conde said.
Think Al-Jizz will publicize that? Me neither.

Semper fi, Marines - you rule!
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 04/22/2004 16:07 Comments || Top||

#11  The word about Sgt. Conde will get back to Fallujah Australopithecae HQ, with the question, "If God is so great, how come the infidels are such good fighters?"
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 16:13 Comments || Top||

#12  OOO-FUCKING-RAH!!!

Semper Fi Marines.

I've got a lot of buddies in the Marine Corp, most are still State-side, but itching to go over there and support their comrades!
Posted by: AllahHateMe || 04/22/2004 16:28 Comments || Top||

#13  This is not a surprise to anyone who has ever spent any time around Marines. It starts in boot camp. The amount of drive and determination it takes to finish recruit training turns these young men into something special. They believe they have been called to stand between America and those that would do her harm. They don't say much but they know that, in these perilous times, they are the pride of the nation.
Posted by: RWV || 04/22/2004 16:56 Comments || Top||

#14  Wait'll they get a load of ME!
Posted by: Lou Diamond || 04/22/2004 18:14 Comments || Top||

#15  Ima loving a good Lou Diamond Story.

"Hi Dick:
I was on Tulagi in August '42 where Lou Diamond attempted to sink a Jap sub with his 81mm mortar. The tube was setup and range estimated mortar drops in and does not clear the top of tube. Crew checks for obstacle and dumps out Lou's Stach of beer in cans.

Crew setup again and the mortar shell makes a high trac missing sub on right side about ten feet. The sub was rising to the surface when first mortar round misses, then before another round is firedthe sub is descending. The second round hits sub amid shiponly there is about 20 feet of water above ship.

The second round hits sub amid ship only there is
about 20 feet of water above ship. No smokestack, not Guadalcanal. I would ask what month that story was suppose to have taken place.

There was an incident that Edson told at one our "Smoker Party." Edson told about a shavetail Lt. that bitched because Diamond had failed to salut, Edson remarked, hell he doesn't salute me.

C L Noring (1st Raider Bn)
Reno Nv"
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 18:16 Comments || Top||

#16  "We helped him up so he could get to the corpsman to get bandaged up," McKenzie, a 22 year old from Bonaqua, Tenn. "We made sure to kill the guys who shot him."

The corpsman treated Conde, who only wanted to get his gear and get back to the fight. Conde's Marines were out there and he knew his place was alongside them. "We stayed and fought until every one of the insurgents was dead," Conde said. Before the day was through, 3rd MAP also raided the house of a former Baath Party member and seized a large weapons cache.


Gotta love a story with a happy ending.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 18:34 Comments || Top||

#17  Takes a fine country to produce men who fight like that.
Posted by: mac || 04/22/2004 19:02 Comments || Top||

#18  Mac, as I have said repeatedly on this site, how can we lose with soldiers and Marines like that?
Posted by: Tibor || 04/22/2004 19:14 Comments || Top||

#19  I'll tell you how we could lose.....If john fucking kerry were president....that's how!

Only BUSH has the balls to see this through. It takes a man who KNOWS what's right, and what's wrong. kerry doesn't have this quality.

Things ARE black and white ......there is no gray. kerry lives in the gray area, BUSH lives in the black and white area.
Posted by: Halfass Pete || 04/22/2004 21:45 Comments || Top||

#20  Yep!
Posted by: Lucky || 04/22/2004 21:52 Comments || Top||


20 Ansar al-Islam members jugged
Twenty members of the Ansar al-Islam extremist Islamic group who were allegedly planning attacks against US-led coalition forces have been arrested in northern Iraq, a Kurdish official said Thursday. "Twenty members of Ansar al-Islam (Followers of Islam) were arrested between April 14 and 19. Large quantities of arms and explosives were seized from those people who were planning terrorists attacks," said Sarkut Hassan, a security official for Suleimaniya province which is controled by the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. "The detainees are Kurds from Suleimaniya," he told a press conference, adding that they had planned to attack public institutions and coalition forces.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 12:59:23 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Hmmm... Haven't heard from the Ansar thugs up north in awhile...
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 19:15 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
New peace pact in South Waziristan
The Pakistani army has reached an agreement with villagers accused of sheltering al-Qaeda suspects in the South Waziristan region, reports the BBC.
Hurrah! A new era begins! I guess.
"Whew! Man am I glad to be back home in the barracks, Mahmoud. I can finally unwind this turban! Had so tight out there in the bush I couldn't think straight!"
Following the mediation of two Pakistani parliamentarians, both sides have pledged to bring an end to fighting in the tribal region, which killed more than 100 militants and troops last month, the BBC said. Peshawar Corps Commander Safdar Hussain and parliamentarian Maulana Merajuddin both confirmed that a "broad understanding" had been reached to end the standoff in South Waziristan. The agreement will be formally announced at a tribal gathering in the Shakai area in South Waziristan on Friday, the BBC said.
Honor's no doubt been satisified on all sides, even though nothing's been accomplished. Now they can send the tribal lashkar to Fallujah and clear that little mess up...
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 12:56:55 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  sound like a purdy big victory is there gonna be a parade
Posted by: HalfEmpty || 04/22/2004 18:50 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Gunmen kill South African security guard in Iraq
A gunman killed a South African security guard in a Baghdad supermarket on Thursday in an attack that underscored the risks facing foreigners in Iraq. The South African, earlier identified by police as a Spaniard, was shot in the head by a lone assailant in a shop in the Iraqi capital's Sunni Muslim Adhamiya district. The South African's attacker, wearing an Arab robe with a headdress bravely wrapped around his face, also shot and wounded the security guard's Iraqi translator, witnesses said. "A gunman came in and shot them both," said Aslan Khalil, a supermarket employee. "When the gunman came in, he told us, 'This is a Jew, how do you deal with him and sell to him?'"

The Swiss Foreign Ministry said two Swiss employees of a non-governmental organisation had gone missing on Tuesday in unexplained circumstances. A Swiss embassy official in Baghdad said they had been released unharmed in southern Iraq. U.S. company Research Triangle International said captors freed one of its employees, George Yaakob Razuq, a Palestinian with an Israeli identity card who had been held since April 8.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 12:51:38 PM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Sadr followers accuse the UK of complicity in Basra bombings
Followers of the radical Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr have blamed British forces for the coordinated series of car bombs which killed 73 people in the southern Iraqi city of Basra yesterday. Several Iraqi policemen in uniform have joined the followers in protests. The coalition say the attacks bore all the hallmarks of Al Qaeda, but Sadr's spokesman in Basra, Sheikh al-Bahadli, told the 300 supporters gathered in front of his office that there was evidence that British occupation forces were involved. The targets of the attacks were Iraqi police stations and a uniformed policeman who joined the protest said "the British were the ones who attacked us". "Now we are with our religious leaders," the policeman said. Another policeman said many of his fellow officers were ready to fight alongside Sadr's Mehdi army.
Posted by: Dan Darling || 04/22/2004 12:50:41 PM || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm guessing that Officer Idiot won't have a job much longer. How fucking stupid are these people?
Posted by: remote man || 04/22/2004 13:08 Comments || Top||

#2  very
Posted by: Damn_Proud_American || 04/22/2004 13:24 Comments || Top||

#3  Yeah, right... whatever. 300 from a city of 1.2 million. Let's see the evidence then.
Posted by: Howard UK || 04/22/2004 13:26 Comments || Top||

#4  I'm guessing the officer in question is one of the 10%ers
Posted by: Lux || 04/22/2004 13:28 Comments || Top||

#5  Hey! They left out the part about how the Queen Mother ordered these attacks from her death bed.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 15:29 Comments || Top||

#6  Now we are with our religious leaders

And soon you will be with your virgins.
Posted by: spiffo || 04/22/2004 15:44 Comments || Top||

#7  muslims will believe anything as long it does not put fellow muslims in a bad light ..... plain ignorance!
Posted by: Dan || 04/22/2004 15:58 Comments || Top||

#8  go ahead and turn sides
Posted by: smokeysinse || 04/22/2004 18:54 Comments || Top||

#9  Anybody who believes that Mohammed was Allan's prophet easily falls for lies like this too.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 04/22/2004 19:37 Comments || Top||


Fallujah Rebels Hand in 'Junk' Weapons
EFL:
Guerrillas and residents of Fallujah had handed over only a paltry assortment of old and rusty weapons as of Thursday, prompting U.S. military officials to warn that a shaky cease-fire in the city may soon collapse. "We weren't pleased at all with the turn-in [of weapons] we saw yesterday. In terms of volume, it amounted to about a pick-up [truck] full," Lt. Gen. Jim Conway said, characterizing the turned-in weapons as "junk."
Did you expect anything else?
"It's our estimate the people of Fallujah have not responded well to the agreements ... that the weapons turn-in would be a reflection of their desire to end the situation peacefully," Conway added. "I think what happens next is in the hands of the negotiators."
The "Army of Jim" is pissed.
U.S. officials said the weapons deal's success hinged on whether the Fallujah negotiators — a group of local civic leaders — could convince the guerrillas to comply. Enemy forces in Fallujah had "days, not weeks" to turn in heavy weapons, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt told Fox News, warning that patience was running thin and that U.S. forces would go back on the offensive if more weapons weren't handed over. A U.S. military general in Baghdad sent Fox News photos of old and rusty weapons that rebels handed over to the U.S. military. Marines said few weapons had been turned in and that most that had been were old or didn't work.
Don't need to check the meter on this one.
The handover was supposed to be part of an agreement in which city leaders were to persuade insurgents to hand over heavy weapons in return for a U.S. promise to not storm the city and instead allow the return of families that had fled. "These may be early indications that the insurgents may not be living up to the requirements of the agreement," said Marine Lt. Col. Brennan Byrne.
Not much slips by Brennan, does it?
Just wait until the local holy men suggest raising a tribal lashkar to deal with the Bad Guys...
The weapons collected are a "signal that the turnover is not proceeding in good faith," Togo West, former Army secretary, told Fox News. "Our forces are going to have to decide whether they can leave that stronghold in the hands of those causing the struggle," he said. "I think they'll [Marines] probably wait a little longer to see if there can be any further successes. If not, they're just gonna have to go ahead and do their job."
Tick...tick...
On Thursday morning, Marines stopped letting residents return to Fallujah. About 10 families had made it back into the city before another 600 Iraqis waiting at a Marine checkpoint were told that no more would be allowed to enter.
"You really don't want to go in there, trust me."
Now they'll go back to one of the neighboring towns and seethe...
The terms of the deal called for all large weapons to be handed in: machine guns, mortars, rocket-propelled grenades, improvised explosive device and the like. But the weapons being turned in did not meet those descriptions, with some even being duds, suitable for training purposes only.
Sigh, not even being clever about it.
Conway said U.S. forces wanted the "good people" of Fallujah to turn in rebels in the city to avoid more violence.
... but neither of them wants to right now...
"[If] we can do that, a lot of innocent people can avoid being hurt. If the negotiators can cause that separation, then we will deal with what's left," Conway said. He said he agreed with the political effort to find a peaceful solution, but said that it had halted the military momentum. "We had momentum on our side and our losses were very small until the point we were told to halt and allow negotiations to take place," Conway continued. "I think those [losses] will be more significant if we do continue. But that's just the military losses and doesn't take into account civilians and those caught between."
Next time, I don't think there will be any stopping till it's over.
A dollar says the holy men are calling for a unilateral ceasefire within 24 hours of the festivities starting up again. That's with the "unilateral" coming from our side, of course...
The New York Times reported that U.S. military commanders have pulled in reinforcements from the western desert to build a force of more than 3,500 around Fallujah. Marines are conducting raids in the suburbs to kill or capture fighters, find weapons and dry up support for militants, one officer said. The units are restocking several days' worth of food, fuel, water and ammunition. Super Cobra attack helicopters and Air Force AC-130 gunships prowling the night skies will soon be joined by several AV-8B Harrier attack jets, the Times reported. In the past month, the Air Force has doubled to 50 the number of strike missions flying on call over Fallujah and other western cities.
Tick..tick.

Conway said the ceasefire was violated Wednesday by a group of between 60 or 80 insurgents on the northwest side of Fallujah. He said he believes there are a "hardcore of a couple of hundred" foreign fighters and several hundred others "influenced by their imams and the idea of jihad." Conway said a tight cordon was in place around Fallujah, which he hoped would prevent fighters from slipping away.
Air tight, please.
There's probably no such thing in that kind of situation. But we can make the chances of successfully slipping away somewhat worse than they were at Wana...
When asked if he thought insurgents would surrender, Conway replied: "They want to fight as long as they can and go down for the cause, and that's what I think we're dealing with. But, of course, if they want to turn themselves in, then we would be delighted."
"Surprised, but delighted."
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 11:25:44 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Insurgent strategy seems to be counter siege. Attack on main western highway from Baghdad. Reports of short rations for US troops in Al Anbar. OTOH the counter siege is costing the hostiles dearly. One convoy attempt killed 100 hostiles to one Marine death. Next big convoy, protected by a full battalion, got through.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 04/22/2004 11:44 Comments || Top||

#2  Um lemmee see - Hostiles only want to shoot a gun even wildly, they don't really care, and get killed to go to paradise. Well trained Marines want to live, and have learned to protect themselves, as well as being marvelous offensive fighters. Does anyone wonder why the kill ratio is so lopsided?

A courageous Sergeant's story that was related by Hugh Hewitt a couple of days ago, where he and others were trapped in Faluja and held off poorly trained insurgents, is an illustration of this as
well...
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 12:10 Comments || Top||

#3  Welcome to the Middle East. Two can play the 'bazaar-mentality' game. After the initial round (half-ass response to your terms), you push, and you push a little farther than the town fathers would like. Then you lay out your terms again, with a much shorter deadline. Yosemite was right - rinse and repeat. It's time consuming, but you end up with more substantial results. And they learn not to screw with you.
Posted by: Pappy || 04/22/2004 12:22 Comments || Top||

#4  There can be little doubt that Fallujah and the other towns in Western Iraq are learning that there is a new sherrif in town. They are coming to understand that the USMC will not screw around and the trying to mess with the Marines will only get you killed. God Bless the USMC. They are just awesome.
Posted by: remote man || 04/22/2004 12:26 Comments || Top||

#5  I've always admired the 82nd AB, but the gentle people of Fallujah by now understand that there's a whole new gang in town, with a different world view, a green meme as it were. If they keep acting out there's going to be many premature shaheeds.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 13:31 Comments || Top||

#6  When are these syphylitic, sand flea, mob rule A**holes with AKs going to learn that 1,000 of theirs are still not equal to 10 Marines with a field phone?

The Ragheads may have the 'Numbers', but the Marines have a 'Mission'.

Plus a whole WORLD of hurt on the other end of that field phone!
Posted by: Jack Deth || 04/22/2004 13:36 Comments || Top||

#7  The terms of the deal called for all large weapons to be handed in: machine guns, mortars, rocket-propelled grenades, improvised explosive device and the like.

From what I can see, the insurgents have been turning in their rocket propelled grenades, mortars and improvised explosive devices ... just not at the specified collection depots.

No problem, when we said "ceasefire" it meant that we will completely cease fire coming from their side ... permanently. We're just as happy to pick these armaments off of their dead bodies.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 19:29 Comments || Top||


Falluja: A View from the Inside
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 11:04 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  He concludes by asking "what do we do?" and answers "Stay the course. The Marines will get into a battle rhythm and, along with other forces and government agencies, they will drive the thugs across the border and set the conditions for the Fallujans to join the freedom parade or rot in their lack of initiative.

Can he be put in charge in place of Bremer ?
Posted by: Carl in N.H || 04/22/2004 11:53 Comments || Top||

#2  An IWPR reporter reports from inside Kufa and Najaf. Killing will probably commence shortly possibly after Sadr City and Fallujah are cleared.
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 23:01 Comments || Top||

#3  those green headbands should come with targets on 'em
Posted by: Frank G || 04/22/2004 23:12 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine
Hit list compiled to martyr Hamas leaders
A Hamas party website proclaimed that Israel's cabinet has formed a hit list holding names of 12 leaders to be martyred, a foreign news agency reported on Thursday.
Only 12?
The list includes Political Bureau chief of Hamas - Khalid Machel, Muhammad Hanif - in charge of Gaza's Armed wing and chief of Armed wing of Gaza - Ibrahim Hamid.
"No, we're not the Gaza Armed Wing. We're the Armed Wing of Gaza!"
The list has been compiled with the contribution of Israeli Interior secret Agency, some guy named Fred and Foreign Secret Agency.
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 9:27:12 AM || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  I'm betting the list is the Gaza white pages.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:41 Comments || Top||

#2  Israeli Interior secret Agency? Foreign Secret Agency? What the F*&K kind of name is that? LOL
Posted by: Frank G || 04/22/2004 10:45 Comments || Top||

#3  Kinda gives new meaning to the old phrase "wing and a prayer", huh?
Posted by: mojo || 04/22/2004 11:48 Comments || Top||

#4  Hamas also said :

The Israel cabinet also assigned a score/value to each leader. The IDF unit with the most points at the end gets one-week leave at a swanky Mediteranian Spa.

(Well let's exibit the Hamas paranoia to a logical conclusion)
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 12:01 Comments || Top||

#5  Heh, good catch Steve. I love it when the Middle East resembles Life of Brian.

Perhaps there is a subtle distinction in the original Arabic; for example, one is responsible for blowing up pizzar parlors, the other for bar mitzvahs...


Posted by: Carl in N.H || 04/22/2004 12:16 Comments || Top||

#6  Carl in NH-Good Point

As they say in "The Life of Brian",

"Blessed are the cheese makers."
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 13:22 Comments || Top||

#7  The Israelis ought to put up billboards featuring the Unlucky 12. Put one of those circles with a line through it over the face when they score.
They could put them on the Wall. Under the Monster Seats.
Posted by: tu3031 || 04/22/2004 15:57 Comments || Top||

#8  Tu3031 -
Don't forget - have a Virgin Counter on the billboard : 72,144,216,288,360,432 etc.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 16:07 Comments || Top||


Bomber Wanted AIDS as Weapon
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 09:13 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  What a lovely young man. I do hope the Paleo version of 'the sistas' give him a dose whilst inside.
Posted by: Howard UK || 04/22/2004 9:30 Comments || Top||

#2  Let's give them a state.
Posted by: Chris W. || 04/22/2004 10:02 Comments || Top||

#3  When I saw this headline yesterday, the first thing I thought was that the heat of the blast would destroy the virus. Not very bright, is he?

If he's an engineering student, he must not be paying attention in class. Or maybe "engineering" is different in the Muslim world.

Yes, let's give these clowns a state - in hell.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 04/22/2004 13:03 Comments || Top||

#4  Participation in such a plot should carry an instant death penalty option. This one goes beyond the merely insane. Such malignancy as this needs to be cut away from our world with a welding torch.

I'm obliged to wonder how many decades it will take the Palestinians to overcome the enduring stigma that is now attached to their culture.

You can already see this in America. Many Iranians will not admit to being from Iran and instead say they come from "Persia." May the Palestinians carry forward from all of their mass murder a lasting stigma to haunt them for another hundred years.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 21:28 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Masked Gunmen Kill Foreigner in Baghdad
Masked gunmen shot and killed a foreigner in northern Baghdad and severely wounded his translator, witnesses said. Iraqi police said the slain foreigner was a French journalist, but there was no immediate confirmation of that report.
Mistaken identity, they thought he was a enemy journalist.

The attack took place near the Azimiyah neighborohood, where gunmen have recently been active. Gunmen have repeatedly attacked U.S. convoys in Baghdad and many foreigners have sharply restricted their movements in the capital.
Posted by: Steve || 04/22/2004 9:06:51 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Let me guess, the "journalist" had recently been seen photographing Coalition HQ, was carrying a concealed Manurhin MR-93 with explosive 'OSK' loads, and his cellphone mysteriously ignited, burning a hole through the street asphalt. He was creamated shortly after arriving DOA at the hospital by several ninjas with flamethrowers.
Happens all the time.
Posted by: Anonymous || 04/22/2004 12:12 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine
‘Israel’s assassination of Arafat only a matter of time’
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 09:02 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  rajoub is full of it.

Sharon DOESNT want Arafat dead. Without Arafat in place, there might be someone to negotiate with, which would create real dilemmas for Arik.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 04/22/2004 10:17 Comments || Top||

#2  I fear that the fish is going to die of acute dysentry before he gets the missle.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:42 Comments || Top||

#3  “An attack on Arafat’s life is only a matter of time because Arafat symbolises the freedom” of the Palestinian people, General Rajoub told the Egyptian weekly magazine Nahdat Mir.

These guys have GOT to be kidding. Nobody in their right mind could believe such a thing, but what's more, nobody in their right mind would SAY such a thing. Palestinians are not "free".
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/22/2004 12:41 Comments || Top||

#4  it would be about time
Posted by: smokeysinse || 04/22/2004 19:18 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Differences between JUI factions widen
Differences between the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam factions of Maulana Fazlur Rehman and Maulana Samiul Haq are increasing, with both accusing the other of seeking government favour.
I'm hoping for shootouts and exploding cars, myself...
The JUI-F and JUI-S are partners in the six-party Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA). “Maulana Fazl could serve a notice on Sami for violating the constitution of the alliance in his capacity as secretary of the MMA,” sources in the alliance told Daily Times on Wednesday. Mr Haq and his son Maulana Hamid-ul-Haqani were recently selected as chairmen of standing committees on religious affairs and local government respectively. Mr Haq was scathing about the MMA deal with the government on the Legal Framework Order (LFO) under which they accepted General Pervez Musharraf as a president in uniform for one year. “I followed the example of Maulana Fazl, who has made a deal with the government to become opposition leader in the National Assembly and now wants half of the boodle standing committee chairs for his party,” Mr Haq said to Daily Times. “We congratulate him for achieving the status he has tried so hard to achieve and create a rift within the MMA,” said Hafiz Riaz Durrani, the central information secretary of the JUI-F. Mr Durrani said the MMA supreme council would decide whether to serve a notice on Mr Haq for violating the constitution of the alliance. “Maulana Fazl was nominated the MMA candidate for opposition leader by the approval of the supreme council and Maulana Sami also supported the decision,” he said.
"So there."
About the supreme council serving him a notice, Mr Haq said his party would decide what to do once a notice was served, but added that neither Mr Rehman nor Qazi Hussain Ahmed, acting president of the MMA, had the authority to serve a notice on him. “I am the founder of the alliance and am now serving as the senior vice-president. I had the right to be president of the alliance after the death of Maulana Noorani,” his ego he said.
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 09:00 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


JKLF leaves Jihad Council
The Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (Yasin Malik Group) has parted from the Muttahida Jihad Council (MJC), accusing council chairman Syed Salahuddin of preparing to announce an unconditional ceasefire in the disputed state. Sources in the JKLF-Y said that the differences with the MJC chairman began when the jihadi alliance was restructured late last year. “The JKLF-Y were asked to join the Kashmir Resistance Forum and not use its original name in Pakistan and Azad Kashmir,” the sources said. “But the JKLF refused the offer and insisted on its original identification in the MJC.”

JKLF leaders wrote to Mr Salahuddin in February, objecting to the restructuring of the alliance and its policies, especially regarding the ceasefire. “The JKLF is not against a ceasefire, but an unconditional ceasefire is unacceptable,” a JKLF leader told Daily Times. “Our stance is that a ceasefire would not be beneficial until Kashmiris get assurances that they will be a party to any possible solution to the dispute. The MJC head is under pressure to announce an unconditional ceasefire. We cannot be part of a council that wants to close the independence movement in exchange for nothing. The MJC has become a puppet of the agencies and the agencies wants to crush the freedom struggle.”

However, sources inside the MJC said that the JKLF had told the MJC that if it succeeded in getting a ceasefire from the Indian forces in Kashmir, it would support the MJC ceasefire decision. The JKLF-Y also recently left the All Parties Hurriyat Conference (Ansari group), complaining that it had failed to put the Kashmiri point of view to the Indian government.
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:59 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  “The JKLF is not against a ceasefire, but an unconditional ceasefire is unacceptable,” a JKLF leader told Daily Times.

"The condition is, we get to keep shooting. Otherwise, we're outta here. Later, gators"
Posted by: Seafarious || 04/22/2004 9:16 Comments || Top||


Stray rocket found in fields
A rocket was found and disarmed at Achini Bala Surband near the Khyber Agency border, Pishtakhara Police told Daily Times on Wednesday. Police said they received information about the presence of a rocket in the fields at Thala Garh in the Achini Bala area and they cordoned off the area and called the bomb disposal squad, who defused the rocket. A policeman said the rocket seemed to have misfired weeks ago because it was rusted. The police have yet to make any arrests in this connection.
"Mahmoud! Is this your rocket?"
"Nope. My rocket's green!"
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:57 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Mine always end up in trees.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:10 Comments || Top||

#2  Ship, use the Estes 'D' size engine and that won't happen. Promise.
Posted by: Steve White || 04/22/2004 14:05 Comments || Top||

#3  Snif! I'm a contender you want me to go down in class to D? D?

BunnyKiller you out there? I'ma proud to be Tripoli. But yeah you're right Steve, there still in trees just not in you neighborhood.

Rockets are built to be lost. Kiss'em fire 'em forget... never mind.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 17:54 Comments || Top||

#4  "Nope, mine's a Titleist"
Posted by: Frank G || 04/22/2004 18:04 Comments || Top||

#5  Mines a FROG7
Posted by: Mahmoud || 04/22/2004 19:12 Comments || Top||


Two killed, 16 injured in fresh Kashmir violence
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:56 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Israel-Palestine
Fatwa 113492 - Allows robbing banks if only Jews use it
EFL This is from Islam-Online - a mainstream Islamic site. - this is the same site that in Fatwa 112837 allows mutilation of dead bodies
Iyad - United Arab Emirates
Title Robbing Jewish Banks
Question What is the legal ruling on a Muslim robbing Jewish banks to help the Muslim fighters

Mufti Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi
Answer
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
....
Muslims may rob the Jewish banks within the occupied Palestine when they make sure that all the money of these banks belongs to the Zionist enemy. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) gave Muslims permission to rob a caravan belonging to the polytheists of Makkah when the Muslims were at war with them, and this was the cause of the first great battle in Islam, the Battle of Badr....
Posted by: mhw || 04/22/2004 8:50:13 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Again, the previous fatwah saw a Spanish policeman who had been killed and buried for DAYS, to be dug up, thrown around the street and burned! Who wants to guess that there will be a string of robberies on "jewish" banks soon? I hope the world wakes up to what animals these goons are and do some exterminating.
Posted by: BA || 04/22/2004 9:44 Comments || Top||

#2  What, no comment on this one, "Antiwar," you jewhating piece of shit?
Posted by: BMN || 04/22/2004 11:07 Comments || Top||

#3  No, no ,no Infidel! It is not a proper Fatwa unless the icepick is stabbed into the skull and the shovel is buried in the chest.
Posted by: Mufti Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi || 04/22/2004 11:22 Comments || Top||

#4  Someone should register fatwaonline.com and issue their own fatwas.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/22/2004 11:50 Comments || Top||

#5  O esteemed fakir: What does the Koran say about dividing up the loot ? As long as I make sure that I give some to charity, can I shoot Ahmed and Mahmoud and thereby keep all the rest for myself ?
Posted by: Carl in N.H || 04/22/2004 12:19 Comments || Top||

#6  Hey, did you know that most banks have a bundle of cash that has a dye pack which explodes and ruins the money and stains the robber.

Inquiring minds want to know:
Ahmed and Mahmoud what's that pink stain on your face and hands? And, why haven't you deliver Yasser his cut of the loot?
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 13:42 Comments || Top||

#7  im cant wait till i learn how to fatwa i have lots of idea in mind god willing.
Posted by: muhamud4doo || 04/22/2004 14:17 Comments || Top||

#8  Stupid fuckers. They never get it. A bank's wealth is in its assets (liens on mortgaged homes and other collateral) not in the vaults. Greedy, stupid retards. This is why they're still freaking savages. They just can't make the mental leap from specie and booty to capital. The worst thing that we ever did was to give them immunizations, antibiotics, and sewers before they could figure out how to grow wealth rather than merely stealing it.
Posted by: 11A5S || 04/22/2004 15:10 Comments || Top||

#9  11A5S - Gee, tell us what you REALLY think.
Your points are good between the invectives.
However, "mental leap from specie" requires one to be sentient!
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 15:23 Comments || Top||

#10  Well that is why it's called RANTburg...
Posted by: 11A5S || 04/22/2004 16:13 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Anti-Coalition Forces Continue to Attack in Fallujah
U.S. Marines battled anti-Coalition forces in Fallujah during the last 24 hours, killing at least 17 attackers. Ten attackers fired rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47s at Marines from a house in eastern Fallujah around 6:45 p.m. April 20. The group is suspected of similar attacks over the past three days. Marines responded by firing mortars at the house. Three vehicles of armed attackers arrived shortly afterward, and Marines again fired mortars, killing eight attackers and destroying all three vehicles.

At around 9:30 p.m. April 20, 12 attackers in two white SUVs pulled up to the Fallujah Liaison Team Building, got out of their vehicles and fired on it with small arms. Army military police fired back and the attackers fled. A mobile security patrol attempted to capture the attackers but was unable to locate them.

At around 6:30 a.m. April 21, Marines were attacked by approximately 40 insurgents in northwest Fallujah. The attackers fired on the Marines with small arms and RPGs from the cover of a nearby palm grove. Marines called in attack helicopters, which fired on the attackers, killing nine and wounding an unknown number. Three Marines were wounded in the engagement.

Marines maintain the right to use decisive but proportional force to defend themselves, Coalition forces, Iraqi security forces and the Iraqi population.
Posted by: Chuck Simmins || 04/22/2004 8:47:33 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Three vehicles of armed attackers arrived shortly afterward

Why would anyone approach a Marine outpost in an unarmored vehicle? Stupdity or Fanaticism? Or yes?
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:32 Comments || Top||

#2  That'll be the morphine.
Posted by: Howard UK || 04/22/2004 10:34 Comments || Top||

#3  Yes, thanks Howard, forgot about allahs little helper.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 11:25 Comments || Top||

#4  Ship, my guess is that the yahoos thought they were screened, and probably were, from direct fire but not from observation. Hence the use of mortars to take them out.

ALthough my buddy Occam agrees with Howard that drugs and / or stupdity is pretty likely, of course.
Posted by: Carl in N.H || 04/22/2004 11:56 Comments || Top||

#5  Howard does bring up an interesting point. There are occasional stories about drugs in the region. I would not be surprised to learn that a lot of these guys are whacked out on something other than the local Imam's ranting.
Posted by: remote man || 04/22/2004 11:57 Comments || Top||

#6  im a peaceafist but im wonder why anyone take morphine to fight ima think speed be better for being angry and somesuch perhpas a shroom or too to ad color and to fire up the ears and maybe have preliminary talks with god
Posted by: HalfEmpty || 04/22/2004 13:36 Comments || Top||

#7  What a waste of perfectly good Lebanese Hash Oil and Black Temple Ball!

Tactics and Strategy. Even Drug-Enhanced Tactics and Strategy don't seem to be strong points with Sadr's Tater Tots!

November's six months away. Do the math. These A$$holes with AKs can sustain such losses very much longer.

Especially when President Bush wins again!
Posted by: Jack Deth || 04/22/2004 14:12 Comments || Top||


Over a Dozen Children Among 68 Killed in Basra Blasts
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:46 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Sick bastards, whoever they may turn out to be. This is one story that goes in my "Why do *I* hate *Them*" file.
Posted by: eLarson || 04/22/2004 16:43 Comments || Top||


Israel-Palestine
Yasser dumps his house guests
Yasser Arafat forced 20 fugitives hiding in his West Bank headquarters to leave the premises early Thursday, fearing the Israeli army would invade the complex to grab them, one of the departing fugitives said.
They've only been there for a couple years now...
The fugitives, all members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, a militant group linked to Arafat's Fatah faction, have been hiding from the army in Arafat's headquarters for months. Israel has repeatedly demanded they be kicked out.
They're the reason Yasser's compound is rubble...
Last week, Israeli security officials summoned Ismail Jabber, commander of the Palestinian national forces, and told him if the fugitives were not forced out they would invade, and if necessary, pull them out of "Arafat's desk drawer," said a fugitive.
Now that's "negotiating."
Following that, five of the fugitives left voluntarily. Overnight, at about 3 a.m., Arafat — under pressure from his aides to get rid of the fugitives due to signs Israel was preparing to invade the city of Ramallah — personally told the 20 remaining men to leave, the fugitive said. He said they had left but were angry.
"Why do we have to get killed and you don't? It ain't fair!"
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 8:33:40 AM || Comments || Link || [8 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "And stay out!"

In my mind's eye I see Yasser in a flowered muu-muu, ratty slippers, and curlers, screeching like a banshee, tossing dirty undershirts out of the 1.5 story window of the Mukata.
Posted by: Seafarious || 04/22/2004 9:10 Comments || Top||

#2  I think in Yasser's mind's eye he sees his brains tastefully arranged on asphalt...
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 9:15 Comments || Top||

#3  "if necessary, pull them out of "Arafat's desk drawer,""

Gotta love the art of negotiation, especially when it breaks down....
Posted by: Frank G || 04/22/2004 9:51 Comments || Top||

#4  LOL HAHA Yes! Smell the desperation and enjoy. I've been waiting for this for 30 years. Loose bowels in the Muqada.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 10:46 Comments || Top||

#5  The same type of 'negotiations' are going on in Fullujah right now. The Marine commander told them to gie up their weapons or face an assault.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) || 04/22/2004 11:15 Comments || Top||

#6  Okay, college students and young singles, be sure to write down these tips on getting rid of unwanted roommates.

Back in my day, we had to come up with our own ideas, you guys have it too easy.
Posted by: Carl in N.H || 04/22/2004 12:21 Comments || Top||

#7  The fugitives, all members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, a militant group linked to Arafat's Fatah faction, have been hiding from the army in Arafat's headquarters for months.

I guess I've been polluted by living on the Left Coast too long, getting news here, but, I thought by the name including Martyrs' Brigade meant they wanted death. I thought as long as they were killed in battle they'd get the 72 sweeties. I didn't know where they were killed mattered. I have been educated.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 12:41 Comments || Top||

#8  So where are these guys? Under arrest or on the run? I thought the IDF had Arafat's dump under constant surveillance.
Posted by: Kirk || 04/22/2004 12:56 Comments || Top||

#9  this will make it allot easier to find his DNA when they bomb him!
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 04/22/2004 13:10 Comments || Top||

#10  Still laughing, still happy, throwing out your guests is a major breech of protocol in the fakir world.... honor! honor! honor! ISM is rounding up depends for the diehards.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 13:48 Comments || Top||

#11  Live on Hugh Hewitt, his Israel expert, a fellow named Yoni says that his ex-colleagues (Yoni, a former IDF officer), "Have the photos" of the 20 departees, and they will be silenced post haste.

C'mon boyz, you have the ability to make it quick. Let the IDF do their work, and save us all some time.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 18:28 Comments || Top||

#12  In the ongoing struggle between Israel and Arafat,this is a strong blow against Arafat.By caving in to Israeli demand Arafat shows inability to protect his people,that he can no longer call upon anyone(US,UN,EU,etc.)who can restrain Israel.This will be noted by all the ambitious.When Arafat loses his aura of "The Man World Respects",Israel won't have to kill him-one of his political rivals will.Then again,the man is a survivor.I wouldn't be suprised if Arafat goes to "meet" w/Euro leaders and stays there,if he thinks he is finally about to be "fired".
Posted by: Stephen || 04/22/2004 19:18 Comments || Top||

#13  Compare Arafat now to an underfed stray cat in a shed trapped inside by a Snarling Pit Bull Terrier, i.e., the IDF guys. Around the Pit Bull are the remains of 20 rats who made a break for it. As soon as the cat comes out, he will be dinner. . .

Grrrrrrrrrr

Prepare for the 72, Yassir. . .
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 19:44 Comments || Top||

#14  You dont have to insult cats and rats! What did they ever do to you?
Posted by: CrazyFool || 04/22/2004 19:48 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
U.S. Forces Kill Two Taliban Suspects
U.S. forces battled Pakistani Taliban holdouts in a forbidding mountain range in southern Afghanistan, killing two fighters and arresting two others, an Afghan governor said Thursday. Also Thursday, international peacekeepers announced that they and Afghan security forces had arrested 17 people in the capital in a sweep against suspects allegedly trying to plant a bomb. Four people were arrested in the first phase of the operation early Wednesday afternoon — three near Kabul stadium and a fourth about a half-mile away, in front of the Finance Ministry. Explosives experts found three detonators in the vest of the last suspect and later found a fuse and high explosives, the peacekeepers said in a statement.
"What's this in your pocket, Mahmoud?"
"It's my lucky detonator!"
Some 13 others were taken into custody in a raid on a home late Wednesday in the capital believed to belong to the leader of a 10-man terrorist cell. "The apprehension brought to a close an ongoing surveillance operation that successfully identified, tracked and apprehended the individuals before a suspected terrorist act could be perpetrated," said the e-mailed statement by peacekeepers, called the International Security and Assistance Force, said in a statement. It was not clear what the target was or whether the men were affiliated with Pakistan the Taliban or its allies. No Afghan or peacekeeping authorities were injured in the raid. The 6,500-strong peacekeeping contingent has been involved in several other operations in recent days, arresting two senior members of renegade warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's forces.

The fighting involving U.S. forces occurred Wednesday in the Tangi mountains of Zabul province, said provincial Gov. Khial Mohammed. U.S. forces had received a tip that an unspecified number of Pakistani Taliban fighters were hiding there, he said. There were no American casualties in the gunbattle, which lasted four hours. Five AK-47 rifles and one rocket launcher were seized during the operation, Mohammed said. It was not clear whether any of those killed or captured were senior JUI or JI Taliban members.

Meanwhile, a bomb exploded near a bazaar in the southern city of Kandahar, damaging a nearby shop and killing the suspected attacker, the local military commander said Thursday. Kandahar borders Zabul to the south, though there was no indication the two incidents were related. The bomb went off Wednesday night when the bazaar was closed, Gen. Khan Mohammed told The Associated Press. He said he believed it may have gone off by accident as the man was setting it up. The general said the route near the bazaar is often used by Afghan and U.S. military vehicles, but it was not clear what the target was, or who was behind the botched attack. "These are enemies of Afghanistan," Khan Mohammed said.
"Luckily, they're not real clear on the red wire-green wire concept..."
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:33 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq-Jordan
U.S. Warns Fallujah Fighting Could Resume
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:31 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Don't warn, do it. Its time for that town to get slammed and put and end to this. This whole episode is probably percieved as weakness by the Islamists.
Posted by: JerseyMike || 04/22/2004 9:46 Comments || Top||

#2  "I really really truely mean it this time! I really do!"
Posted by: CrazyFool || 04/22/2004 10:28 Comments || Top||

#3  What's up with this blustering??? Just issue one, ONE warning: You have such-and-such time to do whatever, and anything after that doesn't count. Then when the deadline is passed, do what has to be done. This constant warning and threatening is counterproductive. The idea to get across is that WE MEAN IT.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama || 04/22/2004 11:57 Comments || Top||

#4  Many people have been held for months without knowing why," said Richard Dicker

Has anyone realized this man's name is Dick Dicker.

Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 16:34 Comments || Top||

#5  Also, Are the Marines are doing a Clint Eastwood?

"Go ahead, make my day. . ."

Enough is enough. Our guys are hot, tired, and not inclined to put up with any more foolishness.
Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 16:37 Comments || Top||

#6 

A Dik-Dik

Posted by: Anonymous4052 || 04/22/2004 18:00 Comments || Top||


Spain Intelligence Agents to Stay in Iraq
Posted by: Fred || 04/22/2004 08:31 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Good.

Yet more evidenc the world isnt all black and white.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 04/22/2004 9:57 Comments || Top||

#2  The Spanish promise (as yet unfulfilled) to beef up their Afghanistan contingent while abandoning Iraq got me thinking.

In "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" when the Lords of the West are approaching the Black Gate, the terror was so great that some of them were unmanned and fled in terror (the UN and many NGOs). Others of them began to flee, but were then ashamed, and gladly accepted the lesser task of securing Cair Andros (the Spanish). The leaders of the West pressed on and summoned the Dark Lord to come forth from the Black Gate (US, UK, Italy, Poland, etc.). I think that story has a happy ending, but who will play the part of Frodo?
Posted by: Tibor || 04/22/2004 19:06 Comments || Top||


Marine Company Commander’s thoughts prior to Fallujah
EFL - excerpt Statement for Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz to Senate Armed Services Committee on April 20, 2004

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee:

As he prepared to lead his troops into action in Fallujah, a Marine Company Commander took time to write his father, a retired Marine.

“This battle is going to have far reaching effects on not only the war here,” he wrote: "But in the overall war on terrorism. We have to be very precise in our application of combat power. We cannot kill a lot of innocent folks. . . . There will be no shock and awe. . . . This battle is the Marine Corps Belleau Wood for this war. . . . A lot of terrorists and foreign fighters are holed up in Fallujah. It has been a sanctuary for them. The Marine Corps will either reaffirm its place in history as one of the greatest fighting organizations in the world or we will die trying. The Marines are fired up. I’m nervous for them though because I know how much is riding on this fight. However, every time I’ve been nervous during my career about the outcome of events when young Marines were involved they have ALWAYS exceeded my expectations. God bless these great Americans who are ensuring we continue to fight an “away” schedule."


Our prayers are with him and all of our people currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are making America – and the world – more secure by helping the Iraqi and Afghan people build free and prosperous democracies in the heart of the Middle East. Whether members of Active Duty, Reserve, or National Guard units, or civilians, these heroes embody the best ideals of our nation – serving so that others may be free -- and we thank them all for the sacrifices they endure.
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 1:14:21 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Israel-Palestine
Israeli military kills 3 wanted militants
According to the sources, Israeli forces killed Bilal Abu Amshe -- the head of the Al Aqsa Brigades in the Tulkarem area -- Ghanem Ghanem and Imam Ibrahim. Palestinian security sources described the encounter as an ambush by Israeli troops. They said Amshe, 29, and Ghanem, 31, were members of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, but identified the third man as Ayman Barahmeh, 25. Palestinian security said he was a friend of the other two men, but not a member of the militant group. Barahmeh's 5-year-old son was killed by Israel seven months ago, the security sources said.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 07:52 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:


Iraq-Jordan
Najaf’s leaders call on al-Sadr to end standoff
EFL
Tribal leaders in the Shi’ite holy city of Najaf yesterday called on an anti-American gas-bag cleric’s militia to end its futile standoff with U.S. troops. The statement, signed by 25 tribal leaders, was the first direct call by residents of Najaf for Sheik Muqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi’s circus clowns Army to put down its weapons before the Marines eviscerate them with fleshettes.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 7:39:29 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:


Men with Chests: Members of U.S. coalition reaffirm support
EFL
Members of the U.S.-led Iraq coalition said yesterday that the decision of three spineless, feckless countries to run withdraw their troops from Iraq does not set a trend, while others said they were rethinking their position. The White House pointed to the continuing support of courageous countries such as Britain, Japan, Italy and Portugal as proof that some countries have balls the coalition is in no danger of collapse.
Does anyone have a full list of countries that are contributing human resources on the ground in Iraq? We need to keep tabs on our friends.
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 7:35:16 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Well, Spain are doubling their Afghanistan troops. So, I guess they must be friends.
Posted by: Anonymous4426 || 04/22/2004 8:05 Comments || Top||

#2  Here are the military forces, pre-Spain and Honduran coitus interruptus:

Countries With Units in Iraq

Country
Current
Peronnel
United Kingdom 11,000
Poland 2,400
Italy 2,700
Ukraine 2,000
Spain 1,300
Netherlands 1,100
Australia 1,000
South Korea 700
Romania 700
Bulgaria 470
Denmark 496
Thailand 460
Honduras 370
El Salvador 360
Hungary 300
Dominican Republic 300
Nicaragua 230
Singapore 200
Mongolia 180
Azerbaijan 151
Norway 150
Latvia 121
Portugal 128
Lithuania 105
Slovakia 105
Philippines 96
Czech Republic 80
Japan ~75
Albania 70
Georgia 70
New Zealand 60
Estonia 55
Kazakhstan 29
Macedonia 28
Moldova 24
TOTAL 26,500

(source: Global Security www.globalsecurity.rg)

That doesn't include about 1,500 non-US foreign contract personnel from, among others, France, Spain, UK, Denmark, Russia, Ukraine, China, Germany, South Africa and Belgium, or another roughly 1000 NGO personnel of various non-US nationalities. There are about 1000 US NGO employees and about 5000 US civilian contractors currently present. Pray for all of them.

Sofia the Librarian
Posted by: Sofia || 04/22/2004 14:58 Comments || Top||

#3  I believe Rhodesians are in demand too. Something about 6 Troop, 2Cdo, I guess. At least when they get kidnapped, there's no gov't to bribe/threaten, swear at, etc. These guys just found another war with intelligent people who really dont care.
Posted by: rhodesiafever || 04/22/2004 16:07 Comments || Top||

#4  I heard that Albania would be upping their troop levels to compesate for the loss of our Central American contingent. (Perhaps they'll re-apply for Spanish Colonial status, too?)
Posted by: eLarson || 04/22/2004 16:45 Comments || Top||

#5  eLarson - I heard that too; there's an official statement from the Albanian Foreign Minister on Monday that they now have 71 troops there and that they would "readily" send more. I don't know how many they could in practicality send - the entire armed forces consists of only 44,000 personnel - but it's nice to have friends, especially from a Moslem country.

It's interesting how many majority Moslem non-Arab countries have been generally supportive of the WOT and US action in Iraq. Perhaps proximity to sand or oil somehow breeds rabid, spit-flying, irrational fanaticism?

It would also be extremely interesting to see the Rhodesians in Iraq. Executive Outcomes, anyone?

Sofia the Librarian

PS my father, a general contractor, sent me a Caterpillar 75th Anniversary pin in honor of St Pancake. I've been wearing it all day, thoroughly confusing my lefty coworkers.
Posted by: Sofia || 04/22/2004 17:30 Comments || Top||

#6  I wonder if it is goodwill built up from defending ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. Either way, it's good to have them aboard.
Posted by: eLarson || 04/22/2004 22:00 Comments || Top||


Islamic nations urge U.N. 'central role' in Iraq
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 07:08 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So does John Kerry. Coincidence?
Posted by: Raj || 04/22/2004 12:36 Comments || Top||

#2  That Oil For Food program must have been berry, berry good to them, too...
Posted by: eLarson || 04/22/2004 16:46 Comments || Top||

#3  Whenever I see the mention of "Islamic" states or nations, a notional absurdity of the first rank, and they're giving advice, well, after I finish laughing aloud I almost always recall this Dylan verse:

"While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But, rather, get you down
In the hole that he's in."
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 16:58 Comments || Top||


Afghanistan/South Asia
Lashkar given ten more days
The government on Wednesday rejected a clemency request by the tribesmen wanted for sheltering Al Qaeda in South Waziristan Agency. The government demanded the wanted tribesmen surrender unconditionally and said their request might be considered later. However, the government extended a deadline for a lashkar (army) led by the Zalikhel tribe to hand over foreign fighters and the tribesmen sheltering them till, May 1. The earlier deadline ended on Tuesday without significant results except demolition of suspected tribesmen’s houses in Azam Warsak area, a spokesman for NWFP Governor Syed Iftikhar Hussain Shah told Daily Times. During a meeting with key members of government-backed all-tribe jirga at Governor’s House, Mr Shah urged the Zalikhel elders to show results in the next 10 days. “We cannot prolong this issue,” he added and said extension without results were “pointless”.
Duhhh... Haven't you been prolonging the issue? Hasn't the entire exercise been pointless?
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 04/22/2004 5:53:49 AM || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This is like a broken record with them. How many 'deadlines' are they going to give them ala Groundhog Day. C'mon already. I glanced at this article and thought: this is where I walked into this movie. They're going to make fools of themselves if they just keep issuing deadlines with no results. Can anyone translate this text into meaningful analysis of the machine that is operating behind this rhetoric? *What's it all about, Alfie...?*
Posted by: button || 04/22/2004 9:00 Comments || Top||

#2  The Tribesmen are delaying because they don't want to fight their relations. The local politicians are delaying because their electorate don't want the 'mujahideen' to be destroyed. The Pak Army is delaying because they don't want their arse handed to them again.
Posted by: Paul Moloney || 04/22/2004 10:41 Comments || Top||


Iraq-Jordan
Iraqi forces ’turn on coalition’
The new coalition-trained Iraqi police force is being infiltrated by insurgents, a US army general has said. Maj Gen Martin Dempsey said about 10% of new officers were rebels and a further 40% have left their jobs - but the rest "stood tall and stood firm". His comments came hours after a series of bomb blasts in southern Iraq killed at least 68 people and hurt many more. US forces have also been caught up in fresh clashes around Falluja, which remains under the control of militants.

’Intimidation’
Gen Dempsey, commander of the US army’s 1st Armored Division, told media executives in an interview that he believed popular support for the coalition among Iraqis remained high, though it could not be taken for granted. But he acknowledged that one in every 10 of the Iraqi security forces trained by the coalition ended up working against the US-led forces. "About 50% of the security forces that we built over the past year stood tall and stood firm," he told the annual meeting of the Associated Press news agency. "About 40% of them walked off the job because they were intimidated and about 10% actually worked against us." He said it had been difficult for some of the people who joined the local security forces because they were looking for the emergence of an Iraqi rather than US hierarchy. Gen Dempsey also said these recruits had found it hard to accept that Iraqis were fighting each other. "It’s very difficult at times to convince them that Iraqis are killing fellow Iraqis and fellow Muslims, because it’s something they shouldn’t have to accept," he said. "Over time I think they will probably have to accept it."

Basra bloodshed
Gen Dempsey, who commands the units in charge of Baghdad, said he believed the attacks in Basra may have been ordered to grab the headlines while other areas of Iraq were relatively calm. A series of apparent suicide bombings targeted three police stations in the southern city which is under the command of UK forces. Many of the dead and injured were children travelling in passing buses on their way to school in Wednesday’s morning rush hour. A fourth attack south of Basra is said to have killed three Iraqis and wounded five UK soldiers. British officials do not think local Shias were responsible for the explosions, but blame them on "al-Qaeda type elements or former regime loyalists".

Briefing reporters in London, one official said: "The Shias have broadly accepted the British presence in Basra and I do not think this has changed." In Falluja, a city west of Baghdad held by Sunni militants, about 40 fighters attacked besieging US troops on Wednesday. The gunmen struck in the north of the city, mounting a barrage of rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 4:56:30 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  "10% of new officers were rebels"
Summary execution

40% have left their jobs
Black balled from ever holding a government job


Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 7:39 Comments || Top||

#2  50 - 40 - 10.

Interesting. On the one hand not nearly the sunny picture that Rummy has been painting, that we dont need more US or allied troops cause we've got huge numbers of Iraqis on the way - clearly getting the numbers up fast has meant real problems in vetting and training. OTOH its not the total collapse implied by the defeatist press and politicians, or by the muslim haters. half of the Iraqi forces stayed and fought on our side. As for the 40% who ran, that doesnt strike me as all that astounding, for ANY third world army, especially one thats poorly trained and equipped, and facing a complex political situation. I wouldnt black ball all of them from any govt job, but I WOULD buck the officers and NCO's to privates, and give the privates renewed AND VERY TOUGH basic training.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 04/22/2004 10:04 Comments || Top||

#3  They're never going to get up to American effectiveness and morale. Incidentally, this is a duplicate article...
Posted by: someone || 04/22/2004 13:31 Comments || Top||

#4  Iraqi forces 'turn on' coalition

What did they do, stop wearing their burqas?
Posted by: Tibor || 04/22/2004 18:37 Comments || Top||


Spain Plans to Hasten Withdrawal of Troops
After announcing its decision last weekend to withdraw forces from Iraq, Spain has raised further ire in Washington by giving notice of plans to pull out faster than expected, a move that Bush administration officials said yesterday is complicating military operations in Iraq and could put lives in danger.
Zappie has a timetable. Al-Q says so.
Initially, officials here had expected the withdrawal to start in a month or two and be carefully coordinated with U.S. military commanders in Iraq. But the Pentagon received word earlier this week that about half of Spain's 1,300 troops would be leaving in the next 10 days and the rest within 20 days after that. "We completely respect their political decision to remove their forces, but the way they're doing it is a big disappointment," said a senior administration official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. "They did not coordinate with the commanders on the ground. It's causing us to have to scramble to backfill those very important positions. And it could unnecessarily jeopardize operations and lives.

"This is just not the way that allies should treat each other," the official went on. "It's disappointing and it's unprofessional."
It's almost like Zappie is sending a message.
Such unusually blunt and angry language reflected the depth of the official irritation generated by Spain's plan and undercut efforts yesterday by Spain's top diplomat to smooth over the episode.

After talks here with Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos denied any new tensions in relations since the government of Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero was installed last weekend and announced the troop pullout. "We are looking to the future. The decision to return the troops is a decision of yesterday," Moratinos told reporters. "We have a strong friendship with the United States. And the determination of both administrations is to work together in areas that are the common challenge for all of us -- first and mainly, the fight against terror."
But if your early pull-out causes some of our troops to die, expect our friendship to suffer.
Pentagon officials said the significance of Spain's withdrawal extends beyond the simple loss of its troops. "It's also the fact that the Spanish were the headquarters for some of the other forces," Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the House Armed Services Committee yesterday.

To replace the forces, who have been responsible for securing areas in south-central Iraq, U.S. commanders have shifted 1st Armored Division troops who had been based in the vicinity of Baghdad. The division, which had been scheduled to leave Iraq this month after a year of combat duty, had its stay extended by 90 days last week. Britain also may provide a new headquarters unit to take the place of Spain's, a senior U.S. official said.
Once again, the lion roars.
Posted by: Steve White || 04/22/2004 12:27:30 AM || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Zapetero appears to have no class, no shame, and no sense of how a man should comport himself. I hope that he proves to be as big a disappointment to the Spanish as he is to us. I think that he will and that it will be a painful process of discovery for them.
Posted by: RWV || 04/22/2004 1:31 Comments || Top||

#2  is there any truth to the rumor that post-modern spanish men have vaginas?
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI || 04/22/2004 1:32 Comments || Top||

#3  All would be forgiven if he would second the troops to the INS to patrol California's southern border.
Posted by: Random thoughts || 04/22/2004 1:33 Comments || Top||

#4  Caramba! We are withdrawing our troops even more quickly than we agreed to after that not-so-nice Madrid unpleasantness and they still keep bombing us. I'll be ever so glad when our soldiers get back home and this entire nasty little misunderstanding finally stops for once and all ... uh ... It will stop, won't it?
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 2:04 Comments || Top||

#5  I think this is bigger than Spain. I expect that we are seeing the last gasps of NATO. Here is why:

1. Bunch of NATO allies refuse to protect Turkey.
2. NATO allies spike any UN resolution that specifies actual consequences for Sadaam.
3. Turkey refuses passage of 4th ID.
4. Various NATO members fail to commit to helping in Iraq.
5. NATO member pulls out of Iraq in the most unhelpful method possible.

NATO is dead.
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 2:20 Comments || Top||

#6  NATO dead? Well, perhaps a revised Warsaw Pact is in order. All the oldies excepting former SU republics + Turkey and the Baltic Republics.
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 2:45 Comments || Top||

#7  SH - NATO's original purpose died with the Soviet Union. All it's doing now is providing a military for the European nations courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer. What we need instead is bilateral agreements with some like-minded nations in Europe and elsewhere that fit our needs to project military force for our own defense.

I agree; NATO is dead. Hopefully we'll bury the UN beside it.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut || 04/22/2004 2:50 Comments || Top||

#8  NATO's not dead. They are just out to lunch.
Posted by: B || 04/22/2004 2:53 Comments || Top||

#9  "We have a strong friendship with the United States. And the determination of both administrations is to work together in areas that are the common challenge for all of us -- first and mainly, the fight against terror."

This drivel is right out of the Jacques Chiraq Playbook. They must have translated recently from the French into Spanish.

BTW, Barbara, I like your idea about bilateral agreements. Eliminate the UN middleman and talk directly. One on one accountability.
Posted by: Alaska Paul || 04/22/2004 2:54 Comments || Top||

#10  NATO's remaining value is in keeping the EUnuts down on the farm militarily. Though perhaps they'd become responsible if they grew stronger... Ok, ok, stop laughing.
Posted by: someone || 04/22/2004 3:00 Comments || Top||

#11  Maybe this is zapatero's way of ending up "seeming" somewhat of a hawk, afterall. He's already seen as a coward son-of-a-bitch. So, now he says he's withdrawing even sooner than expected,(he's more scared than he thought). Then, he "changes his mind" and leaves them longer, up to the original "expected time" of departure......winning applause,(and all kinds of "gratitude" and goodies, from Washington.
Posted by: Halfass Pete || 04/22/2004 3:39 Comments || Top||

#12  Spain, Honduras, Dominican Republic.....

Who's next, bet that by the first shotwound the Dutch will make a blitz exit a la Srebrenica, the Thai look also very shaky, mmmmhhhhhh doesn't look that fine does it?
Posted by: Murat || 04/22/2004 4:45 Comments || Top||

#13  Murat: You're a cock on a stick. The Brits are doing fine in Basra - and we'll get the bastards who blew those schoolkids up. I think those Spanish troops feel pretty ashamed for having a pussy running their country.
Posted by: Howard UK || 04/22/2004 5:19 Comments || Top||

#14  I think the Spanish realised they co-occupy Iraq for the wrong reasons, they expected mass destruction weapons etc. not some lies launched from Bush.
Posted by: Murat || 04/22/2004 5:30 Comments || Top||

#15  Take a look at the story posted yesterday on the planned withdrawal, Murat. Not only is the Zapachicken government abandoning the occupation, they're abandoning community development projects like the hospital in Diwaniyah. This is no protest against "the evil lying Hitler clone" Bush, and there's no possibility that Zapatero would rejoin the coalition if we here in the States were to elect "nuanced multilateralist" Kerry. Zapatero has been cowed, terrified, intimidated--pick your adjective, there's plenty of synonyms!--and he's running away in the hopes that the Islamofascists won't beat him anymore.

He won't get what he thinks he'll get. The Islamists are committed to reversing "the tragedy of al-Andalus"--the expulsion of the Moors in 1492. Spain will continue to suffer.
Posted by: Mike || 04/22/2004 6:52 Comments || Top||

#16  Oh common spare me that Islamofascist blah blah, the US waged a war on terror and attacked the Al Qaeda/Taliban which is OK with me, terror deserves punishment. But the Iraq story is different, all those excuses to attack Iraq turned to be soap bubbles, now the US faces resistance the old tune of Islamofashists and other propaganda is dugged up, the so called liberated Iraqi people suffer because some dickheads in the white house decided to demonstrate some power.
Posted by: Murat || 04/22/2004 7:13 Comments || Top||

#17  Murat you better hope America never shows it's total power you would sh*t yourself.
Posted by: djohn66 || 04/22/2004 7:38 Comments || Top||

#18  Oh an another thing Murat this war is not just about AQ its about all Jihadi grps and your ole buddy Saddam was paying them so he became a target,Syria and Iran do to guess what there future targets,and if one day we find out that Turkey was using jihadi grps Turkey becomes a target get used to it.
Posted by: djohn66 || 04/22/2004 7:44 Comments || Top||

#19  Mu-rat,the anoucment of Spain(coming on the heels of the Madrid bombings)to pull-out completely at the planned time of rotation has all the apperance of cawardice.This cut and run just as fast as they can IS cowardice.

FREE KURDISTAN
Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 7:45 Comments || Top||

#20  D'y'all notice how Murat carefully avoids mentioning of 911, as if it doesn't exist and never happened?

It is the same non-sense you hear when a leftist is trying to avoid stating their usual lack of patriotism by saying 'I support our troops, but I don't support their mission.' Sorta like the Kerryesqe voting for the mission, but refusing to fund it.

Now, Murat: don't forget, when you post your leftist views you don't mention 911. That would undercut every last argument you have ever posted against going to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Leftists have to be careful when rhetorically wondering into this very area. They can't mention 911 because it drops their arguments faster than a Blackwater Security guard can drop a Fallujah jihadi. They can't preach peace, understanding and socialism, if that silly event 911 keeps getting in the way.
Posted by: badanov || 04/22/2004 8:01 Comments || Top||

#21  911, aka the day that can justify anything. Haven't you noticed the weasel words Bush uses to try to link 911 and Iraq, knowing he can't do it directly because there is no (zero, nada, zilch) connection.
Posted by: Anonymous4426 || 04/22/2004 8:09 Comments || Top||

#22  From the Black Hats: Rats Jumping Off a Sinking Ship
Posted by: Dragon Fly || 04/22/2004 8:27 Comments || Top||

#23  911, aka the day that can justify anything. Haven't you noticed the weasel words Bush uses to try to link 911 and Iraq, knowing he can't do it directly because there is no (zero, nada, zilch) connection.

Isn't it awful? Americans taking action to defend civilization against terrorism. The bastards!

Before you know it, women in Islamic countries will send their girls to school so they can read. Those ruthless bastards!

And in a few years, people in Iraq will go to the polls in a real election. How can the people of the United States stand there and let Bush allow this to happen? Has the man no conscience?

The Iraqi economy, once in shambles because of Saddam is now flowering. I can't believe this is happening. People making their own choices for their own future. The barbarity of it all!!

This is TERRIBLE! How will Bush explain to the voters he let an economy develop and flourish, when only 18 months ago Saddam was doing okay, paying his rent, having a little left over for beer in a local palace. Incredible thuggery on Bush's part! How could he let this happen?

We must return Iraq to its former glory. And bury all them 300,00 people. That's another thing to 'justify anything.'

Did I miss anything?

Oh, yeah...

Bush lied!
Posted by: badanov || 04/22/2004 8:29 Comments || Top||

#24  I was going to write a pro and con on NATO. But I couldn't think of any remaining pros. NATO is what Geo. Washington meant by entangling alliances. It was useful during its time. Its time is over. End it. Remaining in NATO either drags us into conflicts we don't need to be a part of (Balkans) or restrains us when we need to take action. The "NATO is sacred" crowd reminds me of Henry Wallace after WWII and his childish insistance that we couldn't abandon our alliance with the USSR. Does anyone remember SEATO and CENTO? They're both long gone, yet their supporters would have told you that they were just as crucial to us as NATO.

It's a new war and it needs a new alliance. Tiny Singapore is ten times more valuable to us in this conflict than France and Spain. Europe shares many of our values. I'm all for free trade and cooperation with them. We shouldn't spend a penny protecting them. The US has the advantage here. Eventually the Euros will genuinely feel threatened and will need us again. Then we'll be able to wring some concessions out of them.
Posted by: 11A5S || 04/22/2004 8:43 Comments || Top||

#25  no link? I recall reading that saddam's people trained some folks who had a part in 911, that's enough of a link for me, I'm sure you would require saddam personally hold their hand every step of the way, 'course if it comes out that he did you would then require that saddam have a son on one of those planes, and should it come out that that also occurred you would require that the planes used must have been bought and secretly planted on the airlines by saddam just for that operation and if even THAT ridiculous scenario came out as being true, you lefties still would not be content, please don't pretend to be intellectually honest.
Posted by: dcreeper || 04/22/2004 8:57 Comments || Top||

#26  I don't mention 911 on Iraq because i see no connections, even Bush himself admitted there was no connection between 911 and Saddam.

If you all don't suffer collective amnesia, you'll remember that the excuse of invading Iraq where the existence of MD weapons that arent there.
Posted by: Murat || 04/22/2004 8:58 Comments || Top||

#27  I love Spain's Foreign Minister's quote "We're looking to the future....." Hope he knows that AQ and the jihadis are in their future even though the cowards elected a socialist into office. You see this with UBL in his original fatwah against the US (waged war on us, even though, as Condi put it, we were not at war with him/AQ). He complained that our troops were on "holy land" (bases in Saudi), and now that we have Iraq, we've moved out of Saudi, and somehow he STILL hates us! Spain may think it can appease the jihadis, but they'll pay an even heavier price than if Hitler marched, because the jihadis don't wear SS uniforms and don't fight for a country (although they do believe in Nazi propoganda)!
Posted by: BA || 04/22/2004 8:59 Comments || Top||

#28  Murat conveniently forgets arguments for removing Saddam's tyranny.

No big surprise; Murat's a lying ass.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 04/22/2004 9:04 Comments || Top||

#29  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 9:14 Comments || Top||

#30  Real mature, anti. I always notice that you guys can't make a point, just call people names! Obviously, there are no WMDs in Iraq, there in Jordan/Syria, eh? And what of the training camps there just south of Baghdad where supposedly some of the 9/11 goons trained? And what of Saddam paying suicide bombers in "Palestine." You fail to see the bigger picture that all these goons hate us!
Posted by: BA || 04/22/2004 9:55 Comments || Top||

#31  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 10:07 Comments || Top||

#32  Antiwar I thought NMM was the biggest f*cking idiot guess I was wrong.
Posted by: djohn66 || 04/22/2004 10:25 Comments || Top||

#33  muRAT back on WMD issue - when is this guy going to realize the real reasons - the strategic reasons for taking out saddam.

anitwar is just an idiot.
Posted by: Dan || 04/22/2004 10:35 Comments || Top||

#34  It's the damn Joooooooooooooooooooos! Dismantle the Zionist entity and we'll all have a peace! You freepers can't see the forest for the bees! Morons. You stuck in your Mickey D kkkulture of death and string beans! Stop the Joooooooooooooos!
Posted by: AntiGum || 04/22/2004 10:39 Comments || Top||

#35  9/11 - Iraq connection.
Ramzi Yousef - nephew of Khalid Sheik Mohammed, 9/11 mastermind. Article in Iraq national paper two months before 9/11 stating Washington, NY, Pentagon, would be hit. Salmon Pak, First WTC bomber fleeing to Iraq and living off Saddam's government for 10 years, all expenses paid, not to mention saddams payments to families of suicide bombers, $10,000 increased to $20,000, and we're still finding things out. Pay attention and start reading instead of listening to the talking heads.
Posted by: jawa || 04/22/2004 10:39 Comments || Top||

#36  yes iraq did have a hand in 9-11. and it is based on world wide terrorism. saddam supported terrorists , regardless of any al-queda connections (there is good intel that saddam gave at least some support after 9-11), we are going after all terrorists and terrorists nations. just not all at once. Murat and anitwar (especially anitwar) get off your left agendas. it is blinding you to the truths - the truths that Americans were killed by terrorist before 9-11 and after 9-11. the only difference now is that we are taking the war to the heartland of our enemies. better theier that here...and personally - niether one of is part of the American electorate so in the long run your opionion means squat here. the United States will not let our security be dictated in eruope, the un or anyone else. that is the job of our president.
Posted by: Dan || 04/22/2004 10:41 Comments || Top||

#37  He ANtiwar, that time of the month again?
Posted by: Evert Visser in NL || 04/22/2004 10:42 Comments || Top||

#38  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 10:45 Comments || Top||

#39  Bull, Antiwar. You hate the idea of Jews having a state -- that doesn't sound like you have nothing against Jews.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 04/22/2004 10:47 Comments || Top||

#40  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 10:49 Comments || Top||

#41  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 10:54 Comments || Top||

#42  you already have converted, dumbass, you just don't know it
Posted by: Frank G || 04/22/2004 10:56 Comments || Top||

#43  Only when I think of you Antiwar ( that goes for both the Impotence and the urge for a Wacky-Backy)
Posted by: Evert Visser in NL || 04/22/2004 11:02 Comments || Top||

#44  antiwar always good see you :)
im been study koran lately and recently convert to islam to learn more about peace. when i study yesterday im find these verse and maybe you can explain them beter for me.

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[5.82] Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.

any info wuld be helpful.
Posted by: muhamud4doo || 04/22/2004 11:19 Comments || Top||

#45  I hope the Lettuce Ladies are now in Burkas.
Posted by: Howard UK || 04/22/2004 11:23 Comments || Top||

#46  Once again we let Murad and Antiwar hijack a perfectly good thread.
Posted by: 11A5S || 04/22/2004 11:23 Comments || Top||

#47  Go Mu!o! Can I still call you by your Christian name or would you prefer muhamud? Have you checked out the moslem vegetarian site?
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 11:30 Comments || Top||

#48  LOL True Torah Jews! Yes! WhatEver.

Mu What with the caps in the cite? I'm assuming you were cut and pasting?
Posted by: Shipman || 04/22/2004 11:32 Comments || Top||

#49  Me and You AntiWar. Did you by chance go to Smith?
Posted by: Evolutions Eve || 04/22/2004 11:34 Comments || Top||

#50  antiwar, technically 'black' is not a race either, it's a skin color, but that does not stop people from decided that it is a race any more than telling people the new millennium starts in 2001 stopped people from celebrating it in 2000.

jew is considered a racial category by most folks, regardless of how much ye jump up and down screaming 'nut uh!'

in the end it's just nit picking..
well for most people it's stupid nit picking, for you it's an expression of your inbred and irrational hatred for an entire ethnic group which spends the majority of it's existence doing peaceful business (oh and trying to stay away from certain mentally deranged types, not point any fingers...)
Posted by: dcreeper || 04/22/2004 11:36 Comments || Top||

#51  In the last year and a half, two things have been demonstrated: the UN is a joke; NATO has the potential to become an even bigger joke, in the event of an attack on a NATO ally. It is not clear anymore, and perhaps it never was, whether certain NATO countries will throw in their fair share, should it be required of them.
Posted by: Rafael || 04/22/2004 11:46 Comments || Top||

#52  "I think the Spanish realised they co-occupy Iraq for the wrong reasons, they expected mass destruction weapons etc. not some lies launched from Bush."

It's kinda funny - since we invaded Iraq, we most certainly have found WMDs (in production). We just didn't find them in Iraq.

If you think those events are unrelated - you are delusional.
Posted by: Rawsnacks || 04/22/2004 12:03 Comments || Top||

#53  Don't forget that NATO is also a mechanism by which the US can have some influence in Euro affairs, so the "entangling alliances" works both ways.

However, I can't recall any recent use made of this, aside from the dramatic way Clinton hijacked it for attacking Serbia.
Posted by: Carl in N.H || 04/22/2004 12:13 Comments || Top||

#54  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 12:19 Comments || Top||

#55  Hey AntiWar, what do you think Israel would do if the Paleo's all of a sudden stopped bombing their civilians, declared Israel's right to exist to took a peaceful approach to negotiations. (I know this scenario is complete fantasy, but work with me here.)

Given that Israel is a democracy and its citizens are rational people (proven again and again), Israel would move for peaceful coexistance. The US would push for the same thing.

Israel was attacked the day it was formed and has been in one form or another almost every day since. Palestine, or whatever you want to call the West Bank and Gaza, is run by thugs. Their behavior is, to say the least, irrational, but more appropriately is psychotic. And yet all you can do is blame the Jews. How odd.
Posted by: remote man || 04/22/2004 12:20 Comments || Top||

#56  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 12:35 Comments || Top||

#57  antiwar plese explain those verse for me.

Posted by: muhamud4doo || 04/22/2004 12:45 Comments || Top||

#58  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 12:55 Comments || Top||

#59  "However if I convert to Islam(don't shit yourself I'm not going to do that)"

Antiwar, what in your immature, self-centered little head ever gave you the notion that anybody on this board would even remotely care what you do with your life?
Posted by: docob || 04/22/2004 13:03 Comments || Top||

#60  As usual AW you did not respond to my comment. Rather you just reaffirmed the Paleo position that the state of Israel has no right to exist. You hide behind the BS Zionist label as though the European jews just decided one day to walk in and declare a state. Guess what, the UN, which you so dearly love, is the organization responsible for the creation of Israel. They signed off on it. The majority of the world community said that there should be a jewish state there.

Using the your logic, what the hell are you doing in Australia? You should not be there. It belongs to the aborigines. Get out!
Posted by: remote man || 04/22/2004 13:05 Comments || Top||

#61  Antiwar, you're no Christian.
Posted by: Robert Crawford || 04/22/2004 13:05 Comments || Top||

#62  Remote, you're sooooo right! That's why Queerafat is holed up in his compound (btw, he's kicked out his "militant" brothers for fear of a Cobra attack), just counting his billions (yes, anti, that's billions with a "b") while his "people" are looking at 70-80% unemployment and HIGH crime rates! Look around, a lot of people have written about how in every other single war (except for Israel's), the conquered people have either adapted to being ruled (grudgingly) or have moved. And yet, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and probably even Iraq REFUSED entry to these refugees when Israel won the war. How come their case is different? BTW, if you really want to blame someone, blame the UN (I'm sure you can't bring yourself to do that, though). And look at what Arafat was offered under Clinton and he walked away, because he only wants to drive the Jews into the sea!
Posted by: BA || 04/22/2004 13:08 Comments || Top||

#63  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 13:20 Comments || Top||

#64  antiwar i thoguht you say you were covert. my bad. im just hope those verse dont mean we cant be friends anymore. i plan on going to mosk later on today and im going ask them. i need stop and buy rug first and apropiate clothe.
Posted by: muhamud4doo || 04/22/2004 13:40 Comments || Top||

#65  Sorry AntiWar, thought I knew you from school. I agree with your immigrant outlook vis. Australia. The recent inhabitants of that fair land were not up to the task of helping out our planet and could not exploit properly the inner resources of Australian Gaia, I'm sure you are working with them. Peace and Pleasure be with you.
Posted by: Evolutions Eve || 04/22/2004 13:42 Comments || Top||

#66  Hey AW, read some history. Please. When Israel went into what was then called Palestine most of the folks who lived there split of their own accord. They were not driven out (as jews living in Arab countries were). Quit making shit up.
Posted by: remote man || 04/22/2004 13:46 Comments || Top||

#67  [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by: Antiwar TROLL || 04/22/2004 13:51 Comments || Top||

#68  And they are still "terrorised" and really AFRAID, as they can't even bring themselves to show their faces when they kill others. Much less, kill all the Jews they can (especially younger ones). And, no mention of your precious UN signing off on this, eh?
Posted by: BA || 04/22/2004 13:58 Comments || Top||

#69  Well, as BA pointed out, we can debate history all we want, but that won't change the reality of what is going on today. So look again at my post #55. See if you can address the point I made. It is clear that the Paleo's can't, so I won't be surprised if you can't either.
Posted by: remote man || 04/22/2004 14:03 Comments || Top||

#70  Jews can live in the Holy Land they just shouldn't think they have a God given right to be there at the expense of other people.

We wouldn't want them to actually believe any of their scripture, eh?
Posted by: eLarson || 04/22/2004 16:50 Comments || Top||

#71  It is also part of Christian Scripture.
Posted by: raptor || 04/22/2004 22:45 Comments || Top||

#72  Murat you are right Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and there were no wmds in Iraq. BA (does that stand for Bowel Action) you are a paranoid schizophrenic obviously please take your medication. Dcreep you are wrong about Saddam.
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 9:14 Comments || Top||

#73  There wouldn't BE any suicide bombers in Palestine if the Zionist State was peacefully dismantled. What about Bush and previous presidents sending military aid to Sharon? Saddam had NOTHING to do with Sept 11. There are no wmds in Iraq re your theory how do you suppose Saddam got them to Syria and Jordan??????????????!!!!!!
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 10:07 Comments || Top||

#74  Antigum I am against Zionists not Jews.(btw please learn how to spell Jew there are no o's in it.)Many Jews are also antizionist Jews Against Zionism aka True Torah Jews and Neturei Karta for example.
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 10:45 Comments || Top||

#75  Hey Evert how are you? still impotent? sounds like it maybe you need to stop smoking the wacky backy.
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 10:49 Comments || Top||

#76  Robert Jews are not a race only Nazis and their Zionists collaborators think so for example I am Irish by birth and christian by religion. However if I convert to Islam(don't shit yourself I'm not going to do that)I have changed my religion but am still Irish see they are two totally different entities. Judaism is a religion.
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 10:54 Comments || Top||

#77  Shipman re True Torah Jews website Jewsagainstzionism.com. Eve no I didn't go to Smith have never been to the US. Dcreeper most folks like Hitler,Himmler,Sharon,Bush,you.
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 12:19 Comments || Top||

#78  Remote the Palestinians have lived in Palestine for thousands of years by religion they have been Jews,then(and many still are)Christians and Muslims.Jews have lived peacefully alongside their (fill in religion here)neighbours for thousands of years until the Zionist Entity was established in 1948.Now can you explain to me why someone from Poland for example who is a Jew and who had one ancestor who left Palestine in 70 AD i.e an Arab but the rest of his ancestors are converted(to Judaism)non semitic people should be able to go to Palestine and render homeless etc etc the true descendants of Moses and Abraham i.e the Palestinians NOT people from Europe.
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 12:35 Comments || Top||

#79  M4doo I am Christian so am not familiar with those Koran verses maybe you could ask someone who is of the Islamic religion?
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 12:55 Comments || Top||

#80  Remote I emigrated with parents and brother in 1989. My parents got jobs and bought a house later my bro and I did the same. WE did not kick people out of their homes. Jews can live in the Holy Land they just shouldn't think they have a God given right to be there at the expense of other people. Polish Jews who are Polish of Jewish religion not race remember can live anywhere they like including the Holy Land they just shouldn't think it is their ancestral Homeland it isn't as most European Jews have absolutely no semitic ancestors rather they are descendants of Khazars who converted to Judaism and you cannot convert to a race now can you.There are yes some European Jews of Semitic ancestory but as their ancestors left in 70 AD they have obviously intermarried with nonsemites(who converted).
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 13:20 Comments || Top||

#81  Remote what I say is true I do not make it up. The Palestinians were terrorised and afraid THAT is why they left.
Posted by: Antiwar || 04/22/2004 13:51 Comments || Top||


General: Much of Iraq's Forces Have Quit
WASHINGTON (AP) - About one in every 10 members of Iraq's security forces "actually worked against" U.S. troops during the recent militia violence in Iraq, and an additional 40 percent walked off the job because of intimidation, the commander of the 1st Armored Division said Wednesday.

In an interview beamed by satellite from Baghdad to news executives attending The Associated Press annual meeting, Maj. Gen. Martin Dempsey said the campaign in Iraq was at a critical point. "We have to get this latest increase in violence under control," Dempsey said. "We have to take a look at the Iraqi security forces and learn why they walked."
1) scared 2) intimidated 3) insufficiently trained, armed, and led 4) not sure we'll stay the course 5) not willing to shoot their own people.
The militia violence aggravated underlying troubles in Iraq's new military and police forces - the unfulfilled desire for "some Iraqi hierarchy in which to place their trust and confidence" and a reluctance by Iraqis to take up arms against their countrymen, Dempsey said. "It's very difficult at times to convince them that Iraqis are killing fellow Iraqis and fellow Muslims, because it's something they shouldn't have to accept," he said. "Over time I think they will probably have to accept it."

The failure of Iraqi security forces to perform is significant because it could hurt the United States' overall exit strategy from Iraq, which is dependent on moving U.S. troops out of the cities and handing authority to Iraqis. Officials have said the U.S. military would delay its withdrawal from parts of Iraq until Iraqi forces were ready to take control.

Dempsey maintained in the interview that popular support for the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq is still "very solid." But he acknowledged "a form of descending consent" for the U.S. military presence occurring among Iraqis as time passes. "There is a point where it doesn't matter how well we're doing, it won't be accepted that we have a large military presence here," he said. "We're all working very diligently trying to figure out where that point is."

Dempsey was asked about the remarks of two other U.S. commanders who questioned the wisdom of banning former Baath Party members from government jobs when their skills are needed in the reconstruction effort. "History is going to have to decide whether that was right or not," he said.
Patton had the same complaint after WWII about ex-Nazis -- pointed out that frequently they were the only ones who knew how to make things work. Ike wouldn't let him use them.
Dempsey recalled receiving a warning from Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah that the coalition forces would find it tough to bring order to Iraq after dissolving the country's only two powerful institutions - the army and the Baath Party. "So part of me says our jobs may have been easier had we just found a way to keep some of the Baath Party in place," Dempsey said, echoing comments by Maj. Gen. John R.S. Batiste and Brig. Gen. Carter F. Ham published in The New York Times on Wednesday. But Dempsey added: "On the other hand, the entire part of the population that was disenfranchised during these 35 years, largely the Shiite population, absolutely has no trust in any former member of the Baath Party. So we found ourselves exactly in the middle of this."

Dempsey commands the Army division in charge of Baghdad. He has been in Iraq for more than a year, focusing on intelligence gathering and combatting terrorism as he works to help Iraqi security forces take over those tasks.
Posted by: Steve White || 04/22/2004 12:11:24 AM || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  The fifty percent that has remained is a good hard core. They are dedicated and brave. Some of Iraq's best future leaders are in that core. Let's keep that in mind.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester || 04/22/2004 0:35 Comments || Top||

#2  Another way to look at this is that after less than a year of training, 50% of the Iraqi forces didn't run away. Considering the type of battle they were going to face and the kind of adversaries who are involved, I'm pretty impressed.

I'm guessing that a higher percentage of Iraqi soldiers stayed to fight with us this year than stuck around to fight against us last year. These guys did better than many of the Republican Guard divisions.
Posted by: snellenr || 04/22/2004 0:42 Comments || Top||

#3  Snellenr, good point, hadn't thought of it that way. 50% of the Iraqi police/civil defense stuck despite the problems. Hmmm.
Posted by: Steve White || 04/22/2004 0:46 Comments || Top||

#4  Lately I find myself thinking that the US made some mistakes in the way the Iraqi forces were structured; maybe they would have been better off being more selective, and taking the resulting forces and integrating them into American units, maybe attaching a half-size Iraqi infantry platoon to US Army infantry companies.

Sun Tzu says if you're recruiting from the enemy's army you should not keep them in units of their own, but thoroughly mix them with yours; this is where I got the idea.

Does anyone want to comment?
Posted by: Phil Fraering || 04/22/2004 0:55 Comments || Top||

#5  One of the main problems we face in Iraq is the perceived weakness of the home front. If the democratic candidate were a Truman or a Kennedy we would have no problems but what we have is a Kerry and that means there is a distinct possibility of him winning the election and the US leaving Irak.

That would be a death sentence for the people who helped the Americans and for many neutrals. So what would happen in the last months of US presence is is that neutrals would try to get "resistance" credentials while people now aligned with us would either try to appear neutrals or act as double agents just to save their hides.

In fact I believe some of the people who aligned with the rebellion have just done that.

Posted by: JFM || 04/22/2004 1:57 Comments || Top||

#6  JFM, I don't expect Kerry to make it to the Convention. His poll numbers plummet in any location that he actually visits. The DNC will kick him to the curb shortly the same way they did Dean.
Posted by: Super Hose || 04/22/2004 2:29 Comments || Top||

#7  "It's very difficult at times to convince them that Iraqis are killing fellow Iraqis and fellow Muslims, because it's something they shouldn't have to accept," he said. "Over time I think they will probably have to accept it."

What is this horseradish? Arabs have been slaughtering each other for centuries. Their internecine power struggles are the stuff of legends. Suddenly it's inconceivable that Iraqis might be murdering each other during the biggest internal power struggle in decades? This sort of self-induced myopia was demonstrated in Basra after the car bombings. People began stoning the British troops because of rumors that a British helicopter rocketed one of the police stations.

It's beyond belief that a car bomb might ever be set off in an Arab country! No, never!

All of this bodes ill for democracy taking root in Iraq. Until the Iraqi people honestly face up to the murderous political imbroglios their religious factions are instigating, they will continue to be gulled by tyrants like Saddam and Sadr.
Posted by: Zenster || 04/22/2004 3:32 Comments || Top||

#8  Phil
That’s exactly what Alexander and then later the Romans did but I have doubts about doing it now. In theory, it sounds solid but in practice I think the experiment would fail. Soldiering back then was pretty much the same everywhere - there weren't any real technology/education barriers. Now with 'combined arms' tactics and advanced weaponry I think the Iraqis would be at a big disadvantage. The Iraqi literacy rate might be a big impedance too.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam || 04/22/2004 10:14 Comments || Top||

#9  maybe they would have been better off being more selective, and taking the resulting forces and integrating them into American units, maybe attaching a half-size Iraqi infantry platoon to US Army infantry companies.

For the attaching, I think thats pretty much what theyve done with the ICDC. You dont do that with the police, cause you want the police out doing routing patrols, and you dont have enough US troops to go out on routine patrols in every city.

Should we have been more selective - damn straight!! But Rummy et al wanted to show that they could do this on the cheap, and wanted to get US troop totals down fast. So they wanted to get Iraqi force totals up FAST, even when everyone outside the admin (including some conservative commentators, I think) was saying this is a problem waiting to happen.
Posted by: Liberalhawk || 04/22/2004 10:14 Comments || Top||

#10  Sun Tzu says if you're recruiting from the enemy's army you should not keep them in units of their own, but thoroughly mix them with yours

The question that I have is whether these Iraqi Army units are outgunned by the insurgents. Certainly they have no heavy armor. They probably don't even have personnel carriers. And they most likely have restricted rules of engagement. Combined with what JFM said, I'm not surprised that many quit.
Posted by: Rafael || 04/22/2004 11:24 Comments || Top||

#11  The "pressure" an Iraqi must feel to not be seen as cooperating with coalition troops must seem enormous to them. Not sympathy, just fact.

The first time a fireteam of Iraqis gets to call in the Snakes to wax people who've got them bottled up, and the Snakes actually show up and do the job, will end all doubt - for that group. Nothing like the feeling of having your ass saved - by someone you've never met. It's the first glimpse of the Big Picture. We get it because it's common for us. It's a blinding flash, a new reality, for them. One incident at a time, these guys will get it, will know that feeling of being part of something bigger, better, something that actually works, and the numbers will eventually add up. This is OJT under fire. Tough way to learn an already tough lesson.
Posted by: .com || 04/22/2004 13:45 Comments || Top||

#12  Uncoordinated training also may have some piece of the problems. Training was being done by individual units, officers sent to Jordan, some by contractors, etc.

SEC. RUMSFELD: Well, I think if you look back over the period of time, a portion of the Iraqi security forces' responsibilities fell to CENTCOM and a portion fell to the Coalition Provisional Authority, and some training responsibilities were with other countries and with the Department of State. It was decided, properly, I believe, very recently, within the last month or two or three, that all of the Iraqi security forces should fall under CENTCOM for a period.

It is all -- it will include the army, the police, the site protection, the ICDC, the Civil Defense Corps, and the border patrol -- all will fall under General Petraeus. And clearly, it is a complicated matter as you transition from those forces being part of the CPA and CENTCOM's responsibility to establishing a Ministry of Defense, which has now been done; appointing a minister of Defense, which has now been done; and having a chain of command develop on the Iraqi side. And it will be General Petraeus's responsibility to work with all the coalition countries to -- and all of those involved in training, and mentoring, and equipping these forces. And that is a big job and it's an important job. General Petraeus brings a lot of good experience, of course. When he was up north, he had a good deal of experience in recruiting and training and deploying various Iraqi security forces. So we think he's a good choice.


If you remember,General Petraeus did outstanding work and the Iraqis really liked him and worked well with him. Maybe a little late in getting some coordination in this, but a good man has been chosen. He is now in field.
Posted by: Sherry || 04/22/2004 14:34 Comments || Top||

#13  Have all the Iraqis watch "High Noon". Maybe a few will get the idea...
Posted by: Tresho || 04/22/2004 18:15 Comments || Top||



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Two weeks of WOT
Thu 2004-04-22
  Yasser dumps his house guests
Wed 2004-04-21
  Fallujah Cease-Fire "Over"
Tue 2004-04-20
  Iraq Leaders Create Tribunal for Saddam
Mon 2004-04-19
  Spanish Troops Start Withdrawal Next Week
Sun 2004-04-18
  Toe tag for Abu Walid!
Sat 2004-04-17
  Planned attack in Jordan involved chemical weapons
Fri 2004-04-16
  U.S. troops, militia clash near Kufa
Thu 2004-04-15
  Tater hangs it up?
Wed 2004-04-14
  Philippines May Withdraw Troops From Iraq
Tue 2004-04-13
  Zarqawi in Fallujah?
Mon 2004-04-12
  Rafsanjani to al-Sadr: Fight America, the "Wounded Monster"
Sun 2004-04-11
  Khatami backs off from Sadr
Sat 2004-04-10
  IGC calls for immediate ceasefire
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