British and Saudi investigators are examining a series of phone calls, text messages and e-mails between leaders of the al Qaeda network in Saudi Arabia and unknown people in Britain from February to May for possible links to the recent bomb attacks in London or a still unidentified group of extremists operating in Britain, according to a Saudi official.
After the July 7 bombings of London's transit system that claimed 56 lives, the British requested further information about the communications, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, and they are now part of the investigation. British officials declined to comment on the disclosure.
The possible Saudi connection is one of several lines of inquiry investigators are following as they seek to make progress in their hunt for those responsible for two sets of recent attacks in London -- the July 7 bombings of three subway trains and a double-decker bus, and an abortive attack two weeks later in which assailants failed to detonate explosives on an identical combination of three subway trains and a bus.
Despite their success last week in rounding up all of the suspects in the failed July 21 attacks, investigators concede they have not answered several key questions: Were the two sets of attacks linked? How were they planned and financed? Was there a larger network of extremists, domestic or foreign, behind the bombings? And, most crucially, are there more attacks in the pipeline?
"We're very pleased with what we managed to achieve last week," said a British official who spoke on condition of anonymity, in keeping with government custom. "But there's so much more we need to find out."
Police in the seaside city of Brighton seized six men and a woman on Sunday in connection with the attacks, while authorities said they would formally apply on Monday for the extradition from Italy of Isaac Hamdi, also known as Osman Hussain, one of the suspects in the July 21 attacks.
The four suspects in the July 7 attacks all died in the bombings, while those allegedly responsible for the botched July 21 attacks fled the scenes. After receiving tips from the public, police seized one of the suspects Wednesday and swooped down on two more Friday, while authorities in Rome arrested Hamdi, who had sought refuge there. Another man was arrested in London in connection with a fifth bomb that was abandoned unexploded in a west London park.
All of the men are being interrogated at a high-security police station. Under Britain's anti-terrorism laws, they can be held for as long as 14 days without charge.
Both sets of attackers were young Muslims with a growing sense of rage over Britain's participation in U.S.-led military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, officials say. Three of the four men behind the July 7 attacks were British nationals of Pakistani origin who were born and raised in the northern city of Leeds; the fourth was a Jamaican-born convert to Islam who also lived near Leeds for a time. The July 21 suspects were all London-based men of East African origin.
The only tangible link between the two sets of bombers, according to officials, is a brochure for a white-water rafting center in northern Wales. The brochure was discovered in a backpack containing undetonated explosives that one of the alleged July 21 attackers, Muktar Said Ibrahim, 27, left behind on an east London bus. Two of the July 7 bombers from Leeds had participated in a rafting trip with the center in early June.
It has also been reported that Ibrahim and another suspect, Yasin Hassan Omar, 24, were devotees of the Finsbury Park Mosque in north London, once a hotbed of Islamic extremism. One of the Leeds bombers, Mohammed Sidique Khan, 30, also frequented the mosque before it was seized by the authorities and its radical imam, Abu Hamza Masri, was charged with encouraging his followers to kill non-Muslims. But no one has yet connected Khan to the two other men.
Investigators believe that both sets of bombers used a homemade concoction of explosives made from triacetone triperoxide, a volatile household material. But the Leeds bombers made their bombs in the bathtub of a flat in the city, while the July 21 bombers are believed to have made theirs in an apartment in north London where Ibrahim and Omar lived.
In his statements to interrogators in Rome, Hamdi has asserted that there was no connection between the two sets of attackers, the Corriere della Sera newspaper reported, but that the July 21 would-be bombers decided to "take revenge on the English" for the anti-Muslim atmosphere following the earlier attacks.
"People gave us bad looks and made fun of us in the street, even women were mocked," said Hamdi, according to the newspaper. "We decided to react."
"We didn't have plans for afterwards," added Hamdi, who grew up in Rome and speaks fluent Italian. "Then I thought about going to Italy to my brother's place, but without explaining anything to him. It was only when we saw each other that I confessed to him that I was one of the people they were looking for in connection with the July 21 bombings."
Police are seeking to determine whether Khan and one of his fellow alleged bombers, Shehzad Tanweer, 22, received instructions to carry out the July 7 attacks, as well as training in bomb-making, from al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan. Both men visited that country late last year. So far, officials said, they have found no clear evidence to support that theory.
Still, they believe a foreign link exists. "We're looking for a mastermind because there's always a mastermind in these attacks, and we think he probably came from somewhere else," said a senior British official.
The Saudi connection is one possibility investigators are exploring. Saudi investigators traced the suspect communications and then informed their British counterparts, but did not hear back about what action, if any, the British took. "We said check out these numbers," the Saudi official said.
He said the calls to and from Saudi Arabia were linked to prepaid cell phones of Abdul Karim Majati, a Moroccan believed to be the head of the al Qaeda network in the Persian Gulf area, and to his associates. Majati was killed in April by security forces.
The calls between London and Saudi Arabia also involved cell phones tied to Younis Mohammed Ibrahim Hayari, another Moroccan al Qaeda leader, and his associates. Hayari, who topped Saudi Arabia's most wanted list, was killed July 3 in a shootout with Saudi security forces.
In some cases, the text messages used aliases to transfer money through a series of personal transactions, the official said. Al Qaeda has long used that system of moving money, known as hawala .
The calls dropped off in May, the official said, but are the center of renewed attention because of the July attacks here.
Tentative links between the London bombers and Saudi Arabia have begun to emerge. The Sunday Telegraph reported that Hamdi made a phone call to Saudi Arabia shortly before he was arrested Friday. The London Sunday Times reported that Ibrahim, the reputed ringleader of the July 21 group, visited Saudi Arabia in 2003, telling friends he went there to receive training.
The Saudi official confirmed both the phone call and the visit. He also said Saudi investigators were examining the travel of one of the July 7 bombers, Hasib Hussain, who transited through Riyadh, the Saudi capital, in 2004 on his way to Karachi, Pakistan.
In the days immediately after the July 7 attacks, British investigators searched for a man they believed had entered the country two weeks before the bombings, contacted Khan by phone, then left the country hours before the attacks. At one point, unnamed American counterterrorism officials identified Haroon Rashid Aswat, 30, a British national who is wanted in the United States for allegedly seeking to establish a terrorist training camp in Oregon in 1999, as the suspect and possible organizer. But British officials have since insisted they have found no evidence that Aswat, who grew up in the Leeds area and is reportedly a resident of South Africa, was in Britain before the attacks took place.
Zambian police arrested Aswat 10 days ago after he entered the country and are holding him pending an extradition request from the United States. British officials have said they would like to speak to Aswat about his reputed al Qaeda connections.
Officials have cautioned the British public to remain on alert for further attacks. Press reports said officials were planning to place teams of officers at every subway, rail and bus station on Thursday, two weeks after the July 21 botched attacks. Each of the two previous attacks, spaced two weeks apart, also occurred on a Thursday.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/01/2005 16:20 ||
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Latter part of a Financial Times article, with a few new-to-me details of interest
.... (Fahd) had shown his mettle early. In 1979 when he was Crown Prince, the Shah of Iran was overthrown and replaced by a virulently anti-monarchist, republican Islamist regime. Saudi Arabia became the prime target for the invective which Iran began hurling at Gulf Arab monarchies. The attacks were damaging enough but worse was to come. The new climate of Islamist militancy inspired a rising by home-grown Saudi dissidents who seized the Grand Mosque of Mecca.
With King Khaled still ill, Fahd played a crucial role in bringing the rebellion under control. In great secrecy to disguise the Saudi governmentâs inability to deal with the militants on its own, French special forces were brought in to clear the insurgents. The bid to overthrow the Royal Family failed.
Even before the warren of tunnels beneath the Grand Mosque had been cleared of rebels, there came a further blow: the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Fahd was instrumental in what appeared to be a brilliant manoeuvre helping to support the Afghan Mujahideen resistance fighters. The move, backed by the US and Pakistan, gave Fahd kudos among his own people.
Yet it was to rebound horribly on the Saudis and their allies. Many of the young Saudis who volunteered to help the Afghans often by working in the refugee camps became radicalised. Among them was Osama bin Laden. It was Osama and the âAfghan Arabsâ who would later sponsor political extremism and lead terrorist attacks against the Saudi authorities and against the west - including the 9/11 assault on the twin towers in New York.
The early years of Fahdâs reign were dominated by the Iran-Iraq war. For six years the Saudis worried that the Iraqi army would crack and that the Iranians would be able to instal a revolutionary Islamist republican government in Baghdad. To forestall this, Fahd, backed by most of the Western powers, âlentâ the Iraqi regime some $20bn to bolster its war effort. The war ended in stalemate - though Iraq was seen as having stopped the Iranian mullahsâ plan to export their revolution to the rest of the region. Yet far from showing gratitude to the Saudis for their help, the Iraqi leader, Saddam Hussein, invaded Kuwait in August 1990.
The move was embarrassing and shocking for Fahd partly because of the financial support he had lavished on the Iraqi regime and partly because he was forced to invite the US and her allies to come to the aid of Kuwait and Saudi. After US Defense Secretary Dick Cheney flew out and showed Fahd photographs of Iraqi units deployed for an advance into Saudi Arabia, the King agreed to a multinational force of more than 500,000 men, including many Americans, being based in Saudi. The move exposed the depth of Saudi and Gulf arab military weakness and the hollowness of official claims to self reliance.
Many Saudis felt unhappy about the presence of foreign armies on their territory and were angry that their government had so little to show for the billions of dollars it had been spending on defence. In February 1991 the US-led international force liberated Kuwait, but at home Fahdâs government faced growing pressures from two divergent constituencies: liberals on the one hand and the potentially more dangerous groups of conservatives and Islamists on the other.
From 1991 onwards, criticism flowed over the conduct of some of the Al-Saud princes, a few of whom were consuming quite extraordinary amounts of revenue. Some of the most senior princes diverted oil revenues into their own bank accounts, often because Fahd had allowed them to control the award of infrastructure and defence contracts.
In 1994, discontent appeared on the streets and in the next two years there were terrorist attacks on US installations in the kingdom. Many Saudi and western analysts came to believe that the US, on which Saudi depended for its external defence, became a liability in terms of domestic Saudi security because of perceived US support for Israel.
The crisis became acute after the 9/11 attacks. The US continued to regard Saudi as an important ally, though in practice many US officials blamed the kingdom for incubating terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, not least because 15 out of 19 of the hijackers involved in the 9/ll attack had been Saudis. At the same time Islamic clergy stepped up public criticism of the Saud familyâs dependence on the US.
On the domestic front, many regarded Fahd as a moderate among autocrats. As well as pioneering the majlis-as-Shura consultative council, he introduced in 1992 the Basic Law, a kind of secular constitution partly directed against unruly Islamist militants. It stated that peopleâs houses could not be entered without the ownersâ permission and that the zakat, a religious tax, would in future be levied by the government, not the mosque, and paid to legitimate recipients. The aim was to discourage funding of private revolutionary groups.
Economically, the great test for Fahd was the rapid decline of Saudi oil production that started falling almost from the month he assumed power.Exports dropped from the previous level of 9m barrels a day to under 2m barrels in 1985 - at which point the King ordered his oil Minister, Ahmed Zaki Yamani, to abandon the OPEC formula and sell oil at market prices. The decision led to a collapse of prices in 1986 with the price of Arabaian Light - then the marker crude - going from some $32 to under $9 a barrel. From then on the Saudi government was forced to run a series of budget deficits financed initially from reserves and after 1990 by borrowing.
Whereas under Khaled the thrust of economic policy had been finding ways of spending oil revenues - in particular how to distribute them to the people - under Fahd it was encouraging the private sector to take up the running of the kingdomâs developments. Yet Fahd failed to persuade his people to lower their expectations and, given the non-confrontational character of the King and his family, until the last two years his government never quite managed to balance the books.
Fahdâs own preoccupation throughout his reign was the rebuilding of the great mosques of Mecca and Medina. The projects, which were managed by the bin Laden family construction group, cost billions of dollars and proved an important drain on the Saudi budget, but Fahd regarded the work as the most important achievement of his life.
In his last decade sickness rendered him progressively unwilling and unable to focus on mounting economic and social problems and this had potentially serious effects on the countryâs long-term development. Analysts suggest it would have been better if Fahd had abdicated in the late 1990s in favour of his half brother, Crown Prince Abdullah. Abdullah has tentatively initiated political and economic reforms but his full brothers have regarded him as too much of a reformer. It suited them to keep Fahd on the throne as long as possible. That way they would deprive Abdullah of the authority, which emanates from the King alone, to push through reforms against the wishes of conservatives inside the royal family and the bureaucracy.
Fahd, in short, stayed as monarch too long.
Posted by: too true ||
08/01/2005 14:10 ||
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The newly appointed monarch, 81-year-old Crown Prince Abdullah, has been the kingdom's effective ruler for 10 years and is the main force behind unprecedented reform steps and a two-year crackdown on al-Qaida-linked militants. Abdullah, now officially king, will likely try to move his allies into key positions and push forward on reform and anti-terror tracks. But he must tread carefully: A clan of his half brothers in Saudi Arabia's sprawling royal family hold key defense and security posts and may resist swift change. Sticking to tradition, Abdullah immediately appointed his half brother, Defense Minister Prince Sultan, 77, as his crown prince and successor.
Abdullah's 81 â that beard's all Grecian Formula. Sultan, next up in the barrel, is either 77, as the article states, or 80 â I'm pretty sure he's a year younger than Abdullah. Nayef's a spring chicken at 72 or thereabouts. All three will probably be dead ten years from now, and an actuary would guess that two out of the three will be long dead.
That move keeps the throne among the sons of Abdul-Aziz, the founder of modern Saudi Arabia. But while Abdullah and Sultan appear in good health, the advancing age of their generation means the next â made up of dozens of Western-educated, technology-savvy princes â is already wrangling over the line of succession. Abdullah may find himself in a behind-the-scenes contest to maneuver his sons into position, while the close-knit circle of his half brothers, including Prince Sultan, the powerful interior minister, and the governor of Riyadh, does the same. The circle of brothers â known as the Sudeiri Seven, after their mother â have long dominated the main positions in the kingdom. Sultan and others in the Sudeiri Seven are seen as somewhat more resistant to change, with stronger links to the hard-line Islamic clerical establishment. The choice of Sultan is a sign that deep-rooted reform â which diplomats and analysts say is the only way the ruling Al Saud dynasty can ensure its survival â has been placed on the back burner as Abdullah pursues change at his own pace.
#4
"Young Mr. Grace"? That may be more apt than we know... the real knock-down drag-out infighting commences when they absolutely, positively HAVE to move on to the next generation, young whipper-snappers of fifty or sixty or so. That's when I think we'll want a bucket of popcorn the size of the Rose Bowl.
Saudi Arabia's King Fahd has died and Crown Prince Abdullah has swiftly been pronounced monarch of the world's largest oil exporter and key US ally.
"With deep sorrow and pain, the royal court ... mourns the death of The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahd due to illness," said an official statement read out on Saudi state television on Monday.
The announcement on television was preceded by recitations from the Quran that interrupted regular broadcasting.
Fahd, who was believed to be 83 and had been in poor health, entered hospital on 27 May with acute pneumonia.
Fahd's half-brother Crown Prince Abdullah, who has been running the kingdom's day-to-day affairs since Fahd suffered a stroke in 1995, automatically becomes king. Defence Minister Prince Sultan will be the new crown prince.
"The royal family members have acknowledged Crown Prince Abdullah as sovereign of the country ... after which the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques and ruler of Saudi Arabia King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz chose Prince Sultan as crown prince and the family members acknowledged that," the statement said.
A Saudi official said Fahd's funeral would take place on Tuesday to give time for foreign dignitaries to take part.
Posted by: True German Ally ||
08/01/2005 03:15 ||
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#8
Drove to the port of Freemantle today and passed at least ten road trains packed with live sheep, and there in the harbour was one of those sheep transporters that carry in excess of a quarter million live sheep. Can't help but think that those in the know were stocking up on halal BBQ supplies.
#18
Why not just call it the NYT Press Release as there is no reporting going on. I didn't check them all, but I notice that no one in the BBC and NYT bothered to ask when he died.
#27
Sung to Pore Jud is Daid from
OKLAHOMA
Rogers & Hammerstein
Poor Fahd is dead
Poor King Fahd is dead
All gather round his coffin now and cry
He had a house of gold
And he was really very old
Oh how long it took for such a feller to die
Poor Fahd is dead
Poor King Fahd is dead
He's lookin' oh so peaceful and serene
He's with the virgins now
They treat him well and HOW!
His bedpans have never been so clean
[spoken]
Then the Imamâd get up and he'd say
"Folks, we are gathered here to mourn and groan over our brother King Fahd
Who lingered hisself for a couple extra years"
And then there'd be weepin' an' wailin' --- from some of those cousins ---
Then he'd say, "Fahd was the most misunderstood man in the desert
People used to think he was a mean ugly fella and called him a dirty hedgehog and an ornery camel stealer
But
[sung]
The folks that really knowed him
Knowed that beneath that old dirty thobe he always wore
There beat a heart as big as all outdoors
King Fahd loved his fellow man
He loved the birds of the oasis
And the beasts of the desert
He loved the sheep and the goats in the barn
And he treated the cows like equals (which was right)
He loved all the little children
He loved everything and everybody in the world, âcept the Jews
Only . . . only he never let on
And nobody ever knowed it
Poor Fahd is dead
Poor King Fahd is dead
His family weeps and wails for miles around
The camels by the shore
Will cry out for ever more
Because poor Fahd is underneath the ground
Poor Fahd is dead
A candle lights his head
He's layin' in a coffin made of gold
And folks are feelin' glad
âCause virgins wonât treat him bad
So now they know their friend has gone for good
Poor Fahd is dead
A candle lights his head
He's lookin' oh so purty and so nice
He looks like he's asleep
It's a shame that he won't keep
But it's always hot and we're usually short a' ice
. ... Abdullah's mother was tribal, his loyalty is towards the tribesman and conservatives. He is known to be unhappy with the over modernization and development of the country, especially with American pressure.
Influenced by his father, founder of the modern Kingdom King Abdul Aziz Al Saud, he developed a profound respect for religion, history and the Arab heritage. His years spent living in the desert with Bedouin tribes taught him their values of honor, simplicity, generosity and bravery. Throughout his life, Prince Abdullah has retained a love of the desert, along with a love of horsemanship. He is a breeder of pure Arabian horses, and founder of the Riyadh-based equestrian club.
In 1962 Prince Abdullah was chosen by King Faisal to command the National Guard, which was formed from descendents of those who were King Abdul Aziz' followers. This is a particularly appropriate appointment given his knowledge of the tribes of Saudi Arabia and his awareness of the heritage of the Arabian peninsula. Furthermore, the National Guard and its Commander are renowned for their efforts to preserve and celebrate the countryâs cultural heritage.
.... Prior to the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the Abdullah faction had a reputation as traditionalists who opposed many of the domestic and foreign polices favored by the Al Sudairi. In particular, the Abdullah faction criticized the kingdom's military dependence on the United States. The Abdullah faction also was a proponent of closer relations with Iran and Syria. During the Persian Gulf War, however, Abd Allah supported the decision to permit stationing of United States troops in the country.
Abdullah was anti-American in the Gulf War, but Fahd demanded United States support, so he had to follow. In addition, Abdullah boycotted Egypt in 1979 after the Camp David Accords, but in 1991 Abdullah supported the Egyptian proposal to end the Arab boycott to Israel if Israel agreed to stop new settlements in the occupied territory. Abdullah tried to advocate against the pro-Western faction within the dynasty. He also push for closer Saudi cooperation with the other Arab states, and tried to mediate the Lebanese crisis, and theSyrian Jordanian dispute in 1980. In addition, Abdullah opposed Fahd's 8 point programme to try to settle the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Early in 1996, the Crown Prince, in his capacity as Deputy Prime Minister, presided over cabinet meetings and governed the country while King Fahd was resting.
In February 2002 Deputy Prime Minister and Commander of the National Guard Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdulaziz unveiled an initiative for resolving the crisis on the basis of Israeli withdrawal from all Arab territories it occupied in the 1967 war in return for full normalization of relations between the two sides. This plan was adopted by the summit meeting of the League of Arab States in Beirut in March.
Posted by: leader of the pack ||
08/01/2005 12:34 Comments ||
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Previously, Saudi kings had not asserted the right to dismiss a designated crown prince. By proclaiming such a right, Fahd revived persistent rumors originating in the 1970s that he and his half brother Abdullah disagreed on many political issues. To forestall speculation that his intent was to remove Abdullah as crown prince and replace him with his full brother Sultan, Fahd reaffirmed Abdullah's position. However, in declaring that successor kings would be chosen from the most suitable of Abd al Aziz's sons and grandsons, Fahd implied that Abdullah or any future crown prince was not necessarily the presumed heir to the throne. The decision to include the grandsons in the selection process and as potential candidates for the throne symbolized the readiness of Fahd and his surviving brothers to pass substantive decision-making responsibilities to a younger generation of the Al Saud. However, this decision also introduced more uncertainty into the succession process. At least a dozen men of this Al Saud younger generation, including sons of Faisal, Fahd, Abdullah, and Sultan, were actively involved in the Saudi government and presumably had a personal interest in the question of succession.
King Fahd's March 1992 edict on succession initiated a contentious struggle for power. Resolved in the fall of 1996, Saudi Arabia endured three years of internecine conflict between Abdullah, the Heir Apparent and commander-in-chief of the Saudi Arabian National Guard (SANG), pitted against Prince Sultan, second deputy prime minister and after Fahd the eldest of the Sudairi Seven. In December 1995 Sultan summoned members of the Ulema to seek their sanction of his claim to the throne and to dismiss Abdullah as Commander in Chief of the National Guard. In the aftermath of the failed coup, Abdullah ordered the National Guardâs well trained Bedouins to engage in highly visible military maneuvers. The prospect of Abdullahâs national guard engaging the better equipped regular Saudi armed forces was intolerable. On 01 January 1996, Fahd ended the crisis by announcing that because of ill health he was temporarily transferring the powers of state to Abdullah. Since 1997, Crown Prince Abdullah has taken on much of the day-to-day responsibilities of running the government.
The United States was said by some to be hostile towards Prince Abdallah. But the US could not avoid his being crowned successor to King Fahd. Instead, the US tried to reinforce the power of the "third generation" princes educated in the United States. These included Prince Muhammad, King Fahd's favorite son and governor of the East region, who was said to be strongly opposed to fundamentalism.
Others frequently mentioned were Prince Salman, a son of Abdelaziz who had been governor of Riyadh since 1962; Prince Saud bin Faisal, a grandson of Abdelaziz and son of the late King Faisal who has been foreign minister since 1975; and his brother, Prince Turki bin Faisal, who was head of the Department of General Intelligence from 1977 through 2001, later becoming abmassador to the United States in July 2005.
Others seen by some as viable candidates in were two other grandsons of Abdelaziz: Prince Khalid bin Faisal, governor of Asir since 1977, and Prince Bandar bin Sultan, son of Prince Sultan (Defense Minister and a Sudeiri) and ambassador to the United States since 1983.
Posted by: leader of the pack ||
08/01/2005 12:45 Comments ||
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#36
Prince Bandar had a pretty good sense of timing, dontcha think?
#39
Thanks for the info on Abdullah & co. Why do I have the feeling that Fahd has been dead a while and the internal power struggle was only just concluded...
#42
Sock Puppet O'Doom just remember imitation is the highest form of flattery.
I also want to thank you for the wonderful suggestion to say something un PC on the BBC website.
My comments were as follows:
"So we have a new commander for the Wahabi nutjob world domination kook network?
With the infinite supply of clown princes in Saudi Arabia, successors are not in short supply. Too bad they don't have one of those messy succession things like they used to have in Assyria where all of the half brothers and male cousins were hacked to death or fed to wolves when a new king came to power."
British and Saudi investigators are examining a series of phone calls, text messages and e-mails between leaders of the al Qaeda network in Saudi Arabia and unknown people in Britain from February to May for possible links to the recent bomb attacks in London or a still unidentified group of extremists operating in Britain, according to a Saudi official. After the July 7 bombings of London's transit system that claimed 56 lives, the British requested further information about the communications, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, and they are now part of the investigation. British officials declined to comment on the disclosure.
Quite properly, too. Don't let the bad guys know what you're doing â even though we're interested.
The possible Saudi connection is one of several lines of inquiry investigators are following as they seek to make progress in their hunt for those responsible for two sets of recent attacks in London -- the July 7 bombings of three subway trains and a double-decker bus, and an abortive attack two weeks later in which assailants failed to detonate explosives on an identical combination of three subway trains and a bus.
So... Just who did Osman call?
Despite their success last week in rounding up all of the suspects in the failed July 21 attacks, investigators concede they have not answered several key questions: Were the two sets of attacks linked?
My guess is "yes," especially since the explosives were...
How were they planned and financed? Was there a larger network of extremists, domestic or foreign, behind the bombings?
Faisalabad and Karachi...
And, most crucially, are there more attacks in the pipeline?
Probably, unless the attackers come to the conclusion the heat's too high for success, in which case they'll scratch and attention will move to Denmark or Italy...
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Let's make the presumption that AQ was spearheading the operation, and work from there.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/01/2005 0:56 Comments ||
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#2
I think it's AQ misdirection to lead us to believe that is is a copy cat or an indirect AQ franchise operation. That AQ is behind directly this seems to me to be a given. AQ needs to have something big happen outside the middle east or Afghanistan. Support for them is flagging where it counts, the guys with the money. Their operations are being rolled up all over the place and the money men have to be getting nervous that someone will find them out. The intention was that this was going to be a big deal, bigger than Madrid to put the money men at ease. London and the UK got lucky. The financial backers need to feel nervous.
#3
These leads seem to be based mostly on reading the data stored inside captured prepaid cell phones, not on intercepted communications.
The bad guys do know that we intercept phone conversations, which is why they use prepaid cell phones. The bad guys apparently haven't figured out, though, how to erase the data on the phones.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/01/2005 7:31 Comments ||
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#4
They have been sloppy in a number of ways that seem far too obvious. Then again, boomers tend not to be the most intelligent and logical of the litter.
#5
Not quite, Mike -- the Rome arrest was enabled by calls made in transit.
Posted by: Neutron Tom ||
08/01/2005 9:39 Comments ||
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#6
Mike, you are confusing several things. Telecos keep records of who calls who for billing purposes. A phone is only anonymouse until you have physical possesion of it, of course then its not (all phones have SIM cards). In addition phone calls may be intercepted and analyzed for content, but that is something separate.
Edited for new information.
THOUSANDS of police marksmen will be on Londonâs streets and rooftops again today after warnings that another team of suicide bombers is plotting a third attack on the capital.
The new group is believed to be made up of British Muslims who were understood to be close to staging an attack on the Underground network last week. According to security sources the men are thought to be of Pakistani origin but born and brought up in [England]. They have links with the Leeds-based terrorist cell that staged the July 7 attacks.
Even with the transport system so heavily guarded, police and intelligence sources believe that the bombers are intent on once more attacking Londonâs bus and Underground network.
US security sources said yesterday that this third group of would-be bombers met at Finsbury Park mosque in North London, where some of the July 7 terrorists are also known to have stayed. There are reports that this team originally planned to strike last Thursday, which is why more than 6,000 police, half of them armed, were present at Underground stations. Scotland Yard said at the time that this exercise, the biggest since the Second World War, was to test their resources and reassure a nervous public.
As commuters return to work today police chiefs say that the arrest of five suspected bombers in house raids in Birmingham, London and Rome has not ended this threat.
There is concern among ministers and police at how long officers can continue such an intensive operation to âlock downâ London while a threat remains. Although reinforcements have been brought in and leave has been cancelled, resources are stretched to keep up the guard on the capital, which is costing £500,000 a day. Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, admitted that his officers were âvery, very tiredâ.
Hopefully the continuing string of arrests will take care of this threat quickly, and the police can take a well-earned break.
#3
Both spellings are correct, twobyfour, depending on whether your dictionary is Brit or Yank. But if you choose Brit, you need a font that squishes the ae together. But you'll have to ask one of our computer types about that... I just pour out the tea. I gave up on programming stuff back in the days of Fortran1 and APL.
#4
£500k a day is just the beginning of the costs incurred. They should think about how much more costly it would be if another 50 people are murdered by Islamofascists and hundreds maimed. The cost of homeland security is a lot higher than £180m a year and we had better b eready to bear it...
because we are at war.
The best estimate I have seen for the cost of 9/11 to the US economy is around $500 billion. And that doesn't include the cost of liberating Afghanistan + Iraq.
LONDON: A bag stuffed with bogus passports, documents and bank cards was found abandoned at Londonâs Heathrow Airport, a newspaper said yesterday. The News of the World called the find a âpotential terrorist goldmineâ and said anti-terrorist officers were urgently probing the discovery. The bag was spotted by a taxi driver on a verge near Londonâs main airport on Thursday. The paper said the fear was that the bag could have been meant to aid further bombers enter and exit the country.
The 19 passports inside were for Pakistani, British, Indian, Nepalese and South African nationals. The newspaper said pictures of the same men appear on different passports in different names. Many passports had fake visas in different shades of ink from genuine documents. The holdall, bearing a tag of a Middle East airline, contained a letter written to a man in Dewsbury, - home to July 7, London suicide bomber Mohamed Sidique Khan. Other documents were linked to nearby Leeds, where two other July 7, suicide bombers hailed from, and north London, another area involved in anti-terror investigations. An interior ministry source told the weekly: âThe holdall could be quite a significant discovery. Somebody must have really panicked to have thrown away so much potential evidence.â
My guess, somebody was leaving town in a hurry. Grabbed the bag of phoney documents, took what he/she needed and dumped the rest to avoid them being found during a baggage search.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/01/2005 15:16 ||
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Additional: A BAG stuffed with fake passports and false IDs found abandoned near Heathrow airport may be linked to West Yorkshire. The black holdall, which contained false visas, forged Home Office documents, bank cards and work permits, was found by a
taxi driver on a grass verge close to the busy airport. It is feared the contents of the bag, which had a Qatar Airways luggage tag, were intended to assist other terrorists plotting similar attacks to those carried out in London on July 7 and 21, to help them get in and out the country.
Inside were 19 passports for Pakistani, Indian, British, Nepalese and South African nationals.
But it is understood also found among the items were letters linked to Leeds and Dewsbury. In particular the bag is said to have contained a letter written to a Muslim in Dewsbury, complete with an Islamic charm.
The contents were handed over to anti-terror police by News of the World reporters after it was given to them by the taxi driver. A spokesman from Scotland Yard last night confirmed they were investigating the contents. He was unable to confirm the existence of a letter to anyone in Dewsbury, or any other links to West Yorkshire.
Dewsbury was home to suicide bomber Mohammad Sidique Khan, 30, who carried out the Edgware Road bombing on July 7, killing himself and six other people. The teaching assistant, who lived at Holm Lees with his wife and daughter, is said to have been the dominant influence over the other Yorkshire bombers â Shehzad Tanweer, 22, of Colwyn Terrace, Beeston, Leeds, who carried out the Aldgate Tube attack and Hasib Hussain, 18, who lived in Colenso Mount, Holbeck, Leeds and carried out the bus bombing in Tavistock Square. Khan lived in Beeston before moving to Dewsbury. Some of the documents and letters in the bag, which was discovered nearly a mile from Heathrow last Thursday, are also understood to be linked to north London â which has been at the centre of anti-terrorist investigations since the July 21 attacks.
Several of the passports contained fake visas in different shades of ink from genuine documents. Photographs of the same two men appear on different valid passports in different names.
Other fake papers included a car log book and a driving licence.
A spokesman for Scotland Yard last night said: "The documents are now being assessed by detectives from the Met's Anti-Terrorist Branch."
He added that police would encourage anyone who has information that might assist the investigation into the attacks on the London transport system on July 7 or 21, to contact the Anti-Terrorist hotline on 0800 789321, or online via www.police.uk. A Home Office spokesman last night said he could not confirm any details with regard to the holdall find or its contents.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/01/2005 15:57 Comments ||
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Could have been left there for someone to pick up since it just came in via a middle eastern airline (tag). But the cab driver saw it first. Delivery Mule probably had a round trip ticket.
#5
since it just came in via a middle eastern airline (tag)
Just because it has a tag on it doesn't mean it just came in or that the passports or documents were in it when it came in. Bag could have been sitting around with a tag on it from the last time it was used. Article doesn't make clear what kind of luggage tag it was, could have just been one of those complimentary tags to write your name on. It'll take the cops awhile to go over it, the photos of the two guys on the id's should be a big help plus any fingerprints.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/01/2005 16:23 Comments ||
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Ed, I also liked the passport of Al Kaboom (AKA Quicks Draw). Did the they find the one for Baba Louie in that bag?
I agree with Steve. The mook left this behind in error or in haste.
#8
This is just nuts, the name they chose for the visa, "Al-Kaboomi".
This is a joke right? Found by a taxi driver? Folks aren't that dumb, or are they.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/01/2005 20:42 Comments ||
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Jan:
Those are from the Rantburg regulars' stock photo collection. They have nothing to do with a particular case.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/01/2005 21:17 Comments ||
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Every time I start to whine about cartoon net's nutty collection of zooom in, zoooooom out, move side to side, mouth move only animation, I think of Quick Draw McGraw and hold my tongue.
Seven people were arrested yesterday as the extensive investigation into the London bombing attacks of 21 July moved rapidly in Britain and Italy. The latest arrests were in Brighton. Police in Rome, aided by British investigators, have detained a brother of Osman Hussain, the fourth suspect. And ministers are considering tougher passport checks on travellers leaving the country amid embarrassment that Hussain, suspected of being the Shepherd's Bush station bomber, slipped undetected out of Britain on a Eurostar train as his picture was displayed around Waterloo station.
Police said the high-profile arrests did not mean the inquiry was being wound down or that the threat had diminished. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, the head of the Anti-Terrorist Branch, said the threat remained very real and urged people to remain vigilant. Detectives are still looking for others involved in the organising of both the 7 and 21 July attacks and are aware that more terror cells could exist. A spokeswoman said: "We are searching for other people. We are not talking about cells. We have never spoken about a third cell. There were other people involved in the incidents of the 7th and the 21st. It's extremely likely there will be other people involved in harbouring, financing and making the devices."
Scotland Yard said the latest raids were on two addresses in Brighton where six men and a woman were arrested. The Yard said armed officers were not involved and those arrested were being interviewed at police stations in the Sussex area. A total of 20 people are now in custody and properties are still being searched. Police said they would not be providing a "running commentary" on the questioning of Muktar Said Ibrahim, 27, accused of the failed Hackney bus bombing, Ramzi Mohammed, suspected of attempting the Oval Tube bombing, and his brother, Wahbi Mohammed, suspected of being a "fifth" bomber, all captured in raids in west London on Friday. They are being held at Paddington Green police station in west London with Yasin Hassan Omar, 24, suspected of attempting to blow up a Tube train at Warren Street station. He was arrested in Birmingham. Under anti-terrorism legislation they have 14 days to interview them.
In Rome, Osman Hussain was reported by Italian newspapers to have told an investigating judge that the 21 July attacks were motivated by anger over Iraq, rather than religious reasons. He is also reported to have said the attacks were designed as a copycat of the 7 July bombings and aimed at frightening people. He is said to have claimed he was not carrying enough explosives even to "harm people nearby". He is being held at Rome's high-security Regina Coeli prison. Two of his brothers have also been arrested by Italian police, one on Friday, and a second yesterday in Brescia, in the north. Hussain is said to be prepared to fight extradition, which would be the first under the new fast-track procedure for terrorist suspects.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 15:00 ||
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I wonder how many #3 men have been picked up thus far? ;-)
#2
____________________________^ "Scotland Yard is sending over seven more of the blighters... Are they done greasing the rack and sharpening the iron maiden yet?"
Details of a âthird waveâ terror plot to carry out multiple suicide attacks were disclosed to senior police commanders at an emergency Special Branch conference held at Scotland Yard last Wednesday. All police leave was cancelled and hundreds of officers were instructed to book into central London hotel rooms. Members of the third cell are said to be independent of the July 7 and July 21 terrorists but have âassociationsâ with some of the suspects who have been arrested in connection with the July 21 attacks. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of the anti-terrorist branch, said that despite capturing the four suspected bombers and a fifth man linked to the cell âthe threat remains and is very realâ.
Another officer, a member of the Yardâs firearms unit, which captured three of the suspected suicide bombers in two raids in west London, said: âWhat we did on Friday was just the tip of the iceberg. There is some big stuff coming in the next few months. Thereâs a big network thatâs got to be cracked.â
Osman, a 27-year-old asylum seeker from Ethiopia who has British citizenship, was arrested by Italian police at his brotherâs flat in Rome after an international manhunt. He is reported to have travelled to France via the Eurostar and then to Italy. Shortly before his arrest, Osman made one phone call to a Saudi Arabian mobile number. Osman is also said to have confessed almost immediately to Italian police. âYes, it is true, I was there on July 21. Iâd been given a rucksack,â he reportedly told police.
Osman is said to have claimed the attacks had been planned by Ibrahim after the two had met at a gym in Notting Hill, west London. He said they had acted independently, had no links to the July 7 attacks, in which 56 people died, and had been taken by surprise by the suicide bombings two weeks earlier. His group decided to carry out the attacks as a statement about the war in Iraq but was not linked to Al-Qaeda or any other terrorists. Contrary to some reports, he told his interrogators that the plotters did intend to explode their rucksacks but that they did not intend to kill anybody. He is reported to have said: âReligion had nothing to do with this. We watched films. We were shown videos with images of the war in Iraq. We were told we must do something big. Thatâs why we met.â Osman, who is suspected of the Shepherdâs Bush attack, claimed they had not meant to kill anyone. âI didnât want to kill, ours was supposed to be a demonstrative act,â he is said to have told interrogators. âWe planned to carry out an attack. We didnât want to kill, only to spread terror.â
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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Washington Times reports discovering a mass supply of counterfiet IDS (visas, work permits, etc.) near Heathrow. You can bet your ass this is a big network of cells.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/01/2005 0:58 Comments ||
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He is reported to have said: âReligion had nothing to do with this. ..."
A second brother of a London bombing suspect jailed in Rome was arrested Sunday as investigators pressed their search for possible accomplices to the July 21 attackers. A top security official warned that the terror risk for the Italian capital remained high. Fati Issac was arrested in the northern industrial city of Brescia, national police said. He is a brother of Osman Hussain, a Briton also known as Hamdi Issac, who is accused of trying to bomb a London subway. His lawyer said Sunday that Hussain did not intend to kill anyone but only to attract attention.
Hussain was arrested Friday at the Rome apartment of a different brother after eluding a dragnet in England. That brother, Remzi Issac, also was arrested Friday. Fati Issac is accused of destroying or hiding documents sought by investigators, but the charge does not involve terrorism, the Italian news agency ANSA said. Anti-terrorism investigators interrogated him for hours, ANSA and SKY TG24 said, reporting from Brescia. Police are trying to determine whether Hussain was involved in any terrorist cell in Italy or involved in any plot to launch an attack against Italy.
Hussain's support network "confirms the presence in our country of autonomous Islamic cells, difficult to discover, which could represent a concrete threat," top Interior Ministry official Alfredo Mantovano said. Italian investigators have said for years that Italy is an important logistical base for terrorist groups, especially in procuring false travel and identity documents.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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He is a brother of Osman Hussain, a Briton also known as Hamdi Issac, who is accused of trying to bomb a London subway.
Hamdi is not a Briton. He was an illegal immigrant in Italy, and later tricked his way into obtaining a British passport. Claiming he's a Briton is the same as saying a thief owns the brand-new Mercedes-Benz over there. What a criminal obtained illegally should not be considered his.
#2
Ah, his Lawyer only wanted to "attract attention." It just gets better by the minute. Nice story but I think he'd be hardpressed to find any buyers. Sounds like Fati and Osman had a family business of their own. "Good Lads" gone rotten? Not likely.
Interesting how recently attacked countries, like UK, change their tune when threatened.
...A senior officer close to the London investigation said: âWe obviously need to know what threat remains and we are asking all our international allies for help even if the standards of their interrogation methods are not as scrupulous as our own. Needs must, I fear.â
Amnesty says that Britain should not be using intelligence obtained from these ghost prisoners. Mike Blakemore, its UK media director, said: âThe UK authorities must do their utmost to prevent any repeat of the July 7 bombings and to bring those responsible to justice, but agreeing to the extraction of information from people held in secret and illegal detention is a step too far.
No, the UK should ignore intelligence that could save lives.
âIllegal detention is the slippery slope to torture and it is vital that the London bombings investigation does not make use of âtorture evidenceâ.
âSince September 11, 2001, we have repeatedly raised our concern with the US authorities that âghost detaineesâ are being held in secret detention centres around the world. These âsecret Guantanamosâ should be opened up and prisoners either properly charged or released.â
Human Rights First has compiled a dossier on 24 of these secret centres and reveals how the CIA is operating its own airline to shift terror suspects across the world.
President Bush says he doesnât know where these prisoners are being held but insists that lives have been saved, including many in Britain, because of information obtained from al-Qaeda figures in custody....
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/01/2005 20:42 ||
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Ghost Prisioners Ain't So Bad Afterall
Were they ever? The Islamonutz started this. If there are a few held on ships (how about a sub?!?!?!) in the Arctic Ocean or in Death Valley, so? Save some lives - extract information however necessary...
#2
Big Ed - if Hillary were President and she okayed keeping "dangerous right wingers who present a threat to our security" locked up on ghost ships, would you feel the same way?
#3
Well, for the ones who were captured on the battlefield, if we aren't allowed to use intelligence gathered from them, then we might as well do the summary court and execution right now.
#4
SA: Assuming you aren't merely a troll (or trollop) and really want an answer, here goes:
If these hypothetical right-wingers were captured on the field of battle fighting the US or its allies and if they were violating the laws of war such that a summary execution is appropriate under international law, then yes, I would support indefinite detainment and eventual execution.
OTOH if they were captured on the streets of Rome, drugged and shipped elsewhere I get a little more nervous. Not saying it's the wrong thing to do, but more nervous.
IF they were attacking innocent men, women and children and IF they were willing and eager to die to promote and further their sick cause, I would be all for torture and public executions.
#7
Agreed. The problem comes if they weren't or we aren't sure.
Look, before you toss out the troll tag at me, just think carefully about the assumptions being made. IF they were captured on the battlefield without identifying insignia, while engaged in attacks or obvious planning of an attack, no problem.
And IF we are very sure they are guilty of plotting mass terror attacks, I agree.
I'm just really torn about the grey areas. We quite possibly *did* keep a bunch of people in Gitmo who either gave little info or were scooped up without having any serious terror role. I'm not faulting the authorities - I assume most of the US people involved were doing their best after a deadly attack here at home.
But I don't ever assume that they will NEVER make mistakes, that none will EVER be corrupt, malicious, or just cover his ass for some stupid mistake by disappearing someone -- if there is an easy way for them to do it.
We have to take some risks with civil liberties if we are gonna protect this country and our society. But I'm not willing to do that lightly, know what I mean?
#8
I can see your point, and if they are American citizens, I would agree. However, these people are not Americans and even going by the Geneva convention, if we catch them out of uniform and not bearing identification of their affiliation, we can legally hang them from the nearest street lamp if we want to. The biggest bonus from the secret prisons, is that communication in the Middle East isn't great. If a cell leader vanishes in a battle in Bagdad, no one will know. Keeping them off the radar so to speak allows stings to be used to round up more terrorist ilk. Besides, highly visable cells and prisons just attact loony senators and self important liberal loons, crying about "abusing" their civil rights when the terrorists are living better than they ever have and better than most of our own prisoners, who are our countrymen. Better to chuck the terrorists out the back of a C-130 at 33,000 feet once all the information is gotten out of them.
#9
Better to chuck the terrorists out the back of a C-130 at 33,000 feet once all the information is gotten out of them.
Maybe. But I know a couple people who did that sort of thing in Nam and if it was good for the country it sure wasn't good for them. They paid a price inside and still do.
Don't have any easy answers, and the ones I've heard don't convince me either way. In the end we'll do what we've gotta do, but I don't like the idea that there's no problem or danger with it.
#10
Don't have any easy answers, and the ones I've heard don't convince me either way. In the end we'll do what we've gotta do, but I don't like the idea that there's no problem or danger with it.
#12
What a ruse! What was the last US enemy that adhered to the Geneva Conventions in their treatment of US soldiers? Viet Cong? No. Saddam Iraq? No. North Koreans? Nada
The suggestion that we must adhere to the Geneva Conventions (even when they do not apply) is a fraud.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/01/2005 22:40 Comments ||
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Spemble - if Hillary were President... she'd be so busy throwing White House fixtures at Bill, she wouldn't be paying attention to matters of security... There'd be gangs of us "right wingers" moving about the country causing all kinds of mischief! {Wink}
Geez go away for a couple hours to eat some dinner, and all kinds of poop hits the fan...
SECURITY forces stormed an Abu Sayyaf hideout and wounded and captured a wanted militant leader, tagged as behind the series of bombings in the southern Philippines, officials said Monday, Aug. 1.
Officials said troops captured Amilhamja Ajijul alias "Alex Alvarez" after a brief firefight late Sunday in the village of Recodo, west of the city. "His capture is a big blow to the Abu Sayyaf. We will not allow terror to reign," the commander of the Army's 1st Infantry Division Major General Gabriel Habacon said.
Ajijul was tagged as among those who staged the spate of bombings in Zamboanga City on October 2002 that left 11 killed, including a visiting US soldier, and wounded scores of civilians, he said.
Habacon said the military pieced together intelligence information about Ajijul and until he was tracked down in his hideout in Zamboanga City. "The war on terror continues and security forces are still pursuing other Abu Sayyaf members," he said.
Other reports said troops seized a fragmentation grenade in Ajijul's hideout. The military said Ajijul is a sub-leader of the Abu Sayyaf's urban terrorist group, blamed for the bombings of several shopping malls and a Catholic shrine in Zamboanga City in 2002.
He was also linked to the kidnapping of a US citizen Jefrrey Craig Schilling in 2000 and dozens of mostly students and teachers in Basilan island.
Security officials on Sunday linked the Abu Sayyaf group tied to al-Qaeda terror network to two bombings in the southern Philippines that left four people wounded.
"We have reasons to believe the Abu Sayyaf is behind these attacks. There is an ongoing operation against the terror group and the blasts could be diversionary," the commander of the Army's 6th Infantry Division Maj. Gen. Agustin Dema-ala said.
Police and military said four people were wounded in separate explosions Saturday in the southern Philippines. A 14-year-old student of Notre Dame school was wounded when a home-made bomb exploded in Cotabato City before noon time. It said the bomb was planted near the administrative building of the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao (ARMM).
A second bomb explosion, which occurred four hours later in Koronadal City, left three civilians wounded. The bomb, placed in a cardboard box, exploded on a motorcycle taxi parked in front of the city's main market, the military said.
Police in Cotabato said it recovered parts of a shattered cellular phone, raising suspicion that it was used to trigger the explosion. "They're using cell phones as initiators to set off explosive devices. This could be part of a bigger plot to sow terror. We are in heightened alert now," said Police Inspector Joey Ampong.
Security forces were pursuing a faction of the Abu Sayyaf in Maguindanao province and troops had already killed six of them since last month.
Abu Sayyaf terrorists tied to al-Qaeda network had also previously used cell phones to detonate bombs in Zamboanga City. Instead of the phone ringing, it sends the power to an explosive charge and detonated it.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
08/01/2005 16:29 ||
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"You have the right to remain silent. Really, really silent, capische?"
Iranian authorities have detained a prominent human rights lawyer and accused him of leaking classified details on Iran's nuclear spies, a spokesman for Iran's judiciary said Sunday. Abdolfattah Soltani, who also represents the family of an Iranian-Canadian photojournalist who died in Iranian custody, was arrested Saturday, said Mohammad Dadkhah, Soltani's attorney. "He has revealed information on nuclear spies both inside and outside Iran as well as to families of the suspects," said Jamal Karimirad, Iran's judiciary spokesman. Last year, Iran said it detained several Iranian nationals who it accused of transferring nuclear secrets to foreigners. The suspects have been tried, but Iran has kept the verdicts secret.
How do you say 'guilty' in Farsi?
Dadkhah said he suspected the true reason for Soltani's arrest was his work investigating the case of Zahra Kazemi, the photographer who died in prison under suspicious circumstances. Last week, in an appeal related to the case, Soltani demanded hardline prosecutor Saeed Mortazavi appear for questioning.
Egyptian police have shot dead one of the prime suspects in the July 23 Sharm el-Sheikh bombings which killed at least 64 people, the Interior Ministry have said. Mohamed Fulayfel was killed in an exchange of fire with police near Gebel Ataqa, a hill 11 miles west of the town of Suez. His wife was also killed in the fire fight and their four-year-old daughter was injured. An Interior Ministry statement said that security forces approached a group hiding in quarries in near Gebel Ataqa after being given a tip-off. As they approached the area, gunmen opened fire at them.
Hummm, now where have I heard that one before?
"The police forces immediately dealt with the source of fire and it became clear that Mohamed Ahmed Saleh Fulayfel had been caught in a "crossfire" killed. He was in the company of his wife, who was wounded and taken to hospital for treatment," it said. Fulayfel's wife died on the way to hospital, the security sources said.
Pity neither of them will be able to talk, isn't it?
Fulayfel was also on trial in absentia for bombings at three Red Sea resorts in October 2004. One bomb, at the Hilton hotel in the town of Taba, killed 34 people. His brother Suleiman was killed in the Hilton hotel blast, along with a Palestinian man who police said was the mastermind of the operation. Police said they died because the timing device did not work properly.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/01/2005 15:57 ||
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ahmed felafel????
I'll have that with extra tahina, some red cabbage, no hot peppers, thank you.
In an interview last week Flayfil's father, Sheik Ahmed Flayfil, said his sons turned their backs on him in 1995 after adopting extremist Islamic ideology. ``No power on earth was able to take the poisonous ideas out of their minds,'' Sheik Ahmed said at the interview in his home in al-Medan, six miles west of the Sinai town of el-Arish. ``It was very clear that they mixed with fanatic groups in el-Arish and were affected by dangerous people to the extent that they weren't obeying me or their tribe,'' he said.
Their eldest brother, Saleh Flayfil, said they'd tried to cross into Libya, Jordan and Saudi Arabia on several occasions, but that he lost touch with them in 1996. The family is part of the al-Sawarka tribe. The Bedouin tribe decided Monday during a gathering that it would not avenge Flayfil's killing, a decision that means the Bedouin were punishing Flayfil for deviating from the tribe. ``Since the time the two disappeared, I've been angry with them,'' Sheik Ahmed said.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/01/2005 16:31 Comments ||
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Fulayfel was also on trial in absentia for bombings at three Red Sea resorts in October 2004.
Well I guess they figured he'd turn up sooner or later...
Now lemee get this straight... He's working with his wife to blow up stuff so he can get 72 virgins? I'd love to hear the conversation on the other side... Particularly when the 72 show up and he's still with the wife...
#4
Pappy:
That's only because they were driven to ties with the "enemy" (don't forget the scare quotes) because the military was targeting them. Just ask Linda Foley.
Worried by the finance ministry's advice that these six battalions be disbanded, the top Army brass led by General J J Singh briefed defence minister Pranab Mukherjee on Friday on the need to maintain the present RR force levels since they were very effective against militants.
"The government had sanctioned 57 RR battalions but the number has risen to 63 now, with a total of 75,000 soldiers. The Army wanted to have 66 RR battalions by now but financial approvals have been delayed," said a source.
Separate funds are allocated for the RR, the largest counter-insurgency force in the world, under the Army head in the annual budget. In the 2005-06 budget, for instance, Rs 1,347 crore was allocated for this force.
RR battalions are deployed in specific areas, without any "regular turnover" like infantry battalions every two-three years. "They develop intelligence and other sources in their area of responsibility over time and can hunt militants better. Terrorists dread RR forces more than regular forces," said an officer.
Apart from specialised weaponry and equipment ranging from multiple-grenade launchers and hand-held thermal imagers to long-range reconnaissance and observation systems, the RR battalions are now increasingly getting equipped with advanced counter-improvised explosive devices.
Posted by: john ||
08/01/2005 11:52 ||
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I would suggest to India that what they need are literally enormous numbers of reserves, trained with Russian ultra-cheap training methods. That is, create about 25 Corps, give them uniforms and pointed sticks, and have a permanent training Corps give each Corps two weeks of training a year just to be replacements. After a few years of the basics, take their best and train them to be field artillerymen, ADA and signal, say having 20 Corps infantry and 5 Corps others. It doesn't take that much resources, and gives India the capability to fight China without relying overmuch on high tech.
It also lets their professional army maximize its high tech skills, while the reserves can both maintain a strong defensive line and exploit a collapse in the enemy lines. This way, the best China could hope to achieve would be a stalemate.
Tourism to Israel up in 2005 Well, its a lot safer than, say, London---if the islamakasis won't get you, the police will.
Shin Bet: Terror attacks on rise despite 'tahdiya'
The first seven months of the year have witnessed a marked, gradual increase in attempts by all the terror organizations, especially the Islamic Jihad, to launch attacks, despite the Palestinian declared tahdiya (truce) on January 22, a seven-page report published by the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) revealed on Monday. And Sun rises in the East.
Security forces thwart massive suicide bomb plot
According to a seven-page Shin Bet report made public on Monday, the Islamic Jihad planned to dig a tunnel underneath the Gaza settlement of Neveh Dekalim, and send suicide bombers to detonate themselves inside the settlement. The Jews are getting away.
Paratroopers uncover arms cache in Hebron
IDF paratroopers uncovered a cache of arms and explosives in the center part of Hebron.
According to Israel Radio, the cache included pipe bombs, and raw material to be used in the production of explosive devices. Preparing for the next phase of the Peace Process.
Mortar shells hit southern Gaza
On Monday early morning, mortar shells were fired in the southern Gaza strip in an open area near an IDF base. There were no injuries.
It's tough being commander in chief. I've never done it, of course, but when you give the subject a little thought you can see where the difficulty lies. George Bush is sworn to support and defend the Constitution, which provides for the common defense. Quite aside from the Constitution there are fundamental matters of right and wrong, the possible and the impossible, the desirable and the undesirable, plus the Law of Unintended Consequences. He's got to deal with all these factors, not sequentially, but all at once, and he's got to make a minimum of mistakes. Despite having been described as "simplistic" by his detractors, he's handling complex events well, making decisions based on events as they unfold, strategy for the coming years, and the constraints as they exist.
The U.S. has the capability to "nuke Mecca," to lay waste the entire Muslim world that's declared war on us and that wants to destroy our civilization, despoil us of our riches, and grab our women as sexual playthings. Having the capability and using it are two different things. Extreme actions usually aren't the ones that have desirable outcomes, and they're invariably the ones that have the highest incidence of unintended consequences. Consider:
Not all Muslims the Iraqi Kurds, for instance, and the members of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan have joined in the war against us. In fact, they're on our side. We don't want to nuke them.
A certain number of Muslims have seen the error of their ways and come over to our side, for instance the Iraqis who are getting killed by the terrs every day and who are fighting them with a little bit more competence each day. Indonesia might be included on this list, though I'd still call it wobbly.
Some Muslim states are more or less quietly on our side, usually not making a big thing of it, for instance Ould Taya in Mauritania, Saleh in Yemen, King Abdullah in Jordan, Bouteflika in Algeria, Ben Ali in Tunisia, the al-Sabahs in Kuwait, and most of the al-Thanis in Qatar.
Some are effectively neutral, which would include most of the Gulf emirates, while others maintain a hostile neutrality, like Qaddafi in Libya, or Badawi in Malaysia, Sudan, and the Lebanese.
Some few Muslim states are no threat to us because they're abject failures at being states. Who's afraid of Somalia? No one stays up nights worrying about the threat from Niger. The Nigerian Islamists have managed to disrupt a Miss World pageant and to reintroduce polio in their children. Some accomplishments.
What this means is that we're not "at war with Islam," as the Islamists like to claim. The actual number of states we're at war with all undeclared at the moment is pretty small: Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Syria. With only one of these states do we have something that approaches open hostility, and that's Iran, to whom we're the Great Satan and where they see fit to harbor al-Qaeda's leadership. Syria wobbles between hostile neutrality and outright hostility, afraid to take sides against the Islamists because they're afraid the Islamists will kill them, afraid to push us too far because they're afraid Assad will get what Sammy got. They're also the most susceptible to receiving a push at just the right spot to make them implode. There's no need for us to waste a nuclear weapon as long as they're willing to slaughter each other.
That leaves Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, both of whom profess to be best friends with us. The Pak jihadis are the Saudis' surrogate. The country itself is somewhere between Syria and Afghanistan, only with a larger population and a small nuclear arsenal. Left to its own devices, bereft of Saudi funding and outside economic aid, Pakistan's just another failed state, and a fairly spectacular failure at that. Given the right circumstances, Pakistan will become Somalia, or more likely four or five Somalias.
So now we're down to only Saudi Arabia. That's where the money comes from. That's where the Learned Elders of Islam reside. That's the headquarters for the "charities." Saudi Arabia is the country people call before exploding in the subway in London and after taking hostages in Moscow. They fund madrassahs to keep Pakistan at a boil, and they export al-Ghamdis to lead the jihad.
They also produce a fair amount of the oil that we use, so open hostilities with them is a shot to our economic foot. Just as important, they're of central religious significance to the rest of the Muslim world. Nuking Mecca's the sure way to take all those states out of the "neutral" category and put them into the "hostile" category, and to take most if not all the friendlies and put them there, too.
That leaves us with conventional tools, which boils down to diplomacy, military action, legal action, and covert action. That's where the constraints Bush works within show up. Rather than carpet bombing large portions of the Muslim world, we're engaging in diplomacy, trying to give the Saudis the opportunity to quietly cease and desist and we'll all pretend it never happened. Where military action is appropriate, we're using it. Throwing Sammy out was a slice through the Gordian knot of despotism, and trying to establish a reasonably democratic state in the heart of Fanaticstan is a counterattack on the caliphate. Eventually Iran will either collapse from within or we'll slice that knot, too. Legal and police action takes the cannon fodder off the streets and sometimes breaks up an entire network, usually in the wake of an attack. Covert action is hopefully bumping off the holy men behind the jihadis one by one, not that it's something we should ever admit to.
Winning the war isn't going to be a quick operation. Cheney warned us about that four years ago. The trick is not only to win it, but to win it with the smallest possible corpse count. "The Masses" all have faces, homes, children, and they're just as human as we are, even though some of them don't feel shame like we do. The innocents, even the hostile neutrals, haven't done anything that deserves incineration, any more than the people who went to work at the WTC on 9-11-01 did.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 09:42 ||
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#1
All of which goes a long way to explain why the editorial pages of the NYT, the Globe, the LA Times, etc. are filled with comments on what Bush should not have done and say very little about what specifically (i.e., not John Kerry's "I would do it better" line) Bush should do.
Posted by: Matt ||
08/01/2005 11:35 Comments ||
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#3
Thee's either a bad link, or Fred wrote this. I vote for #2. Well done!
If we lump all of "them" into a single category, it makes "us" as bad as "them".
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/01/2005 12:00 Comments ||
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#4
Pakistan is a major nuclear problem that could change to far more hostile leadership, almost overnight. Their "bomb" is the "Islamic bomb".
Saudi Arabia and Iran have major hostile components and are responsible for stoking much of the terrorism of the last 20 years. Saudi Arabia already has a major weapon -- oil. If the princes' heads roll, Saudi Arabia will use it against us. The leadership in Iran is hostile, clearly developing nuclear weapons, and has a long record of exporting terrorism and supporting it.
What all three have in common is that the most dangerous elements in each are located squarely in the Islamic religous leadership. They have no qualms about killing us.
The innocents, even the hostile neutrals, haven't done anything that deserves incineration, but if we don't take a firm position now, this evil triumvirate will show us far worse than 9/11, 3/11, and 7/7. They are working every day to develop more martyrs and more-powerful weapons for them to use against us. You say that "The trick is not only to win it, but to win it with the smallest possible corpse count". I would append "on our side" to that and tell you that I'm not optimistic right now. In almost four years, Bush has neither bagged Osama nor dealt a setback to Iran.
Afghanistan was a good start. Iraq was a necessary operation. But the only "War on Terrorism" that I see as regards the most virulent parts of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran is a verbal one. We're not engaging them on their turf, but they're engaging us on ours.
Posted by: Neutron Tom ||
08/01/2005 12:05 Comments ||
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#5
Best Rantburg Editorial Ever.
Posted by: Mike ||
08/01/2005 12:11 Comments ||
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#6
Bush has neither ... nor dealt a setback to Iran.
Might want to pay a little attention to the troubles the mullahs are having with domestic opposition of late. A small match can light a big fire and set a pot boiling, if the fuel is staked just so and the person with the match knows what he's doing.
Posted by: leader of the pack ||
08/01/2005 12:14 Comments ||
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#7
We're not engaging them on their turf, but they're engaging us on ours.
Not since 9/11.
The conflict is playing out on the turf most convenient to us, Iraq, Afghanistan and an increasingly free media.
There is not an American consensus on pursuing this war. Thus, like the cold war, it will be a long slow war of endurance. We have won this kind of war before, and it may be the kind of war for which democracy is actually best suited.
Bush has not dealt a set back to Osama? Then why hasn't OBL attacked the US again? Bush hasn't dealt a set back to Iran? Tell that to the mullah keeping the Kurds in the north of Iran under control.
Bush hasn't done everything, true. He's started plenty, but left work for his sucessor. But that's part of the strategy. Osama's the one who declared war on the country with the oldest written constitution in the world. Let's see who can last longest.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/01/2005 12:20 Comments ||
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#8
Brovo, Mrs. D! I especially liked the 'oldest written Constitution' part.
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/01/2005 12:46 Comments ||
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#9
The question of whose side is time on is fairly debatable. Time is on our side in the sense that Islamic fanaticism stands no chance whatsoever in a long-term contest of values with Western liberal democracy, which is what the WOT is about. On the proverbial other hand, every passing day may be bringing us closer to the time what the nutjobs are going to have their hands on a nuke.
Posted by: Matt ||
08/01/2005 12:55 Comments ||
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#10
It's remarkable how many people comment on what they thought they read instead of what was written. I wrote:
"...Bush has neither bagged Osama nor dealt a setback to Iran."
Nothing about Bush not dealing a setback to Osama.
I've had all I can take of Rantburg for awhile. The return of Mike Sylwester is a downer. The return of Aris Katsaris is a downer. This commenting without careful reading, which is all too common, is a downer. Goodbye.
Posted by: Neutron Tom ||
08/01/2005 12:56 Comments ||
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#11
Very well thought, reality-based editorial from the Man, as always... but this applies to the WOT seen from the US side.
What about Europe? What about its coming decade with population shift (native pop will shrink and gets older, muslim pop will swell due to higher birthrate and massive immigration, and stay comparatively younger and less affluent), with possible (probable?) civil unrest, sharing of the power between communities, political subversion,... This can't be managed the same way as an oversea meta-war (some of this equally applies to the US homefront, btw).
Any thought?
#12
Tom, I appreciate your frustration but please hang in there.
Anon5089, good point. It seems to me the issue is what Europe can do to promote assimilation, assuming that enough Europeans care to maintain their native culture. We make Americans much more efficiently than they make Europeans.
Posted by: Matt ||
08/01/2005 13:19 Comments ||
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#13
"It's remarkable how many people comment on what they thought they read instead of what was written. I wrote:"
You're right, Osama hasn't been caught. And, who knows what headaches the MM's suffer from that we are indirectly or covertly responsible for.
Good Bye, so long!
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
08/01/2005 13:23 Comments ||
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#14
My humblest apologies for not reading your pearls of wisdom with sufficent care.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/01/2005 13:28 Comments ||
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#15
Mucki, could you do a tune for us? The one with the little chillruns? This would be a fine time.
#16
Excellent commentary, Fred--thank you! I admit that I too have moments where I slip back into the belief that the "moderate Muslim" is a mythical being, but we certainly do have plenty of Islamic allies that deserve credit.
PLEASE--let's not turn this thread into another whine-tasting! We already have a thread hijacked for that purpose today.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/01/2005 14:22 Comments ||
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#17
I popped over to Aris's web journal after reading his post here. (To tell the truth, it's amazing that he is still pro-American after the Rantburg fireworks -- yes, he was absolutely not an innocent party, but he hadn't the maturity/life experience to understand why his words triggered such a strong reaction. At his age I was equally bewildered.) He's on medical leave from the Greek Army at the moment, having broken a small bone in his foot during an overenthusiastic long march. So he is still doing his service, and won't have much time to post here, whether he wants to or not. I also get the sense he's been forced to mature a bit... much like bratty Israeli boys grow up in the IDF. Certainly the few photos he's posted show he's lost his boyish chubbiness. ;-)
I hope that the latest round of verbiage is due to the fact that many of us are feeling wrung out by the events in London, and the constant drumbeat of death, death, death coming from the mainstream media. Certainly I've melted down a time or two, for which I apologize to you all, and thank you for your patience and generosity.
Fred, thank you for the big-picture summary -- it's really important to pull back every once in a while, something I don't do very well, I'm afraid. It helps, especially the reminder that our side is actually doing pretty well, considering.
#18
Great Editorial Fred a very well ordered discription of reality.
I have to say our side is doing very, very, well considering the constraints. I think some of us (like me) are frustrated with how long it's taking to get this over with. We do fully realising that this is a long slog.
I still worry about what we will do when we are blind sided by a series of nukes going off here in the USA. We are after all "The great Satan" who many islamic folk are happy to curse and loudly chant that they want our death. That is my biggest worry. That they will hit NY and Washington again, this time with multiple nukes. That is the AQ way and Iran would be happy to supply them.
#19
My guess is that they don't have them, otherwise they would have used them. Instead, they hint at having them and claim to have them, and that way we're still forced to defend agains them.
If I'm wrong, then all bets are off and Mecca's toast, with my (probably posthumous) approval. But I think we've seen the worst they can do at Beslan.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 15:07 Comments ||
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#20
Provided,
1) we keep the Pakistani nukes under control,
2) the MM don't develop nukes, and
3) some Soddie doesn't buy one from Kimmie for Binnie.
That's a lot of things to control, even for a hyper-power.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/01/2005 15:19 Comments ||
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#21
OT
"I popped over to Aris's web journal after reading his post here".
Mrs. Trailing wife, what's the url, if you may be kind enough?
#22
Mrs D.
Saudi may already have a few purchased from Pakistan for all we know. A.Q Khan is a person we are not allowed to get an interview with AFAIK. All the Info we have is second hand. I don't think the Saudi's or Pakistan would tell us if they did. They are aimed at Iran not us or Israel, They know what Israel would do if they used one or even tried.
Fred
I don't think we would ever nuke Mecca. That isn't our way. We do have actual strategic targets to hit that will not hurt us or the world's supply of Saudi oil. It shouldn't be off the table but I don't think we would ever target it. I still look at Dave D's list and mull what stage we will go to next. We certainly are more at the beginning of this struggle than the middle.
#23
Let's make a list, check it twice, so we know who is naughty and nice...
I think Sultan Qaboos of Oman is with us too...
"General Tommy Franks's 2004 book American Soldier, he described the sultan as a true friend to the United States in the War on Terror, with 'no guile, no secret agenda'." - Wikipedia
If Gen Franks says the Sultan is cool, he must be...
#28
If the U. S. went so far as to nuke Mecca, it wouldn't be the only place nuked. Attendance at Friday prayers would be down almost as much as terrorist attacks. That's why, I hope, it isn't going to happen.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
08/01/2005 17:37 Comments ||
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#29
Congratulations Fred, I hope you put a special link to that posting to make it "sticky". It's the essence of this blog (which is more than a blog). Some institutes get paid a fortune to put out analysis which is not half as good.
In a short article you summed up everything that's important, something that an editorial of the NYT just doesn't seem to manage.
We are all privileged to post here. So let's put any petty quarrels aside and focus on the big picture.
If the U.S. were to "nuke Mecca" it would be in response to nuclear weapons being used on our territory, against our people. Terrorist activity would have already "increased tenfold" because one of the redlines would have been crossed.
The point I was making, and have made many times, is that the use of WMDs is not a decision that we will make lightly. In fact, it's one we'll bend over backwards not to make. It would mean we'd have lost the capability to control the war within the constraints I discussed above and that we had decided to accept the consequences that went with the move. It's a move I hope to never see.
TGA -
Thank you. I'm flattered. I was trying to sort out the arguments against overreaction in my own mind.
I wish I had the time to "think on paper" more often...
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 19:44 Comments ||
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#31
A thought for the day, for Fred and the others here: if the search function here were operating well and fine-grained enough (not that I'm complaining) to be able to pick out every time Al Qaeda's operations managers (Zarqawi and Zawahari, I guess) in each theater have bombed a Mosque (Shi'ite, Sunni, whatever) themselves it would still spit out about a hundred articles.
I don't think the idea of seeing the Grand Mosque destroyed has *any* deterrent value to the extremists we're stuck at war with anyway. They'd LOVE to be able to rewrite their religion to replace the requirement of the Haj with a requirement to murder an "unbeliever," whether that means a Christian, a Wiccan, an Atheist, or a Shi'ite/Sunni/Sufi/Whatever... I'm not certain they really care about Islam any more than Mao cared about the oppressed proletariat.
I think too many of the "war between civilizations or religions" crowd are missing this.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
08/01/2005 21:39 Comments ||
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#32
Just got back from a 2300-mile round trip to bury my wife's mother, so I haven't been on Rantburg, even as a lurker, for over a week. It's going to take some time to catch up.
Fred, your article should be plastered all over every newspaper in the world, in whatever language people there read. There are two things I'd like to add, however.
We made grave mistakes in Vietnam. One of the worst was creating sanctuaries where our enemy could rest, recover, and rearm. I hope our leaders learned the lesson of that huge mistake, and that there are NO sanctuaries allowed in this war.
We already know that Muslims on all sides use mosques to both spew their propaganda, and to hide weapons and equipment. We know that Islam not only allows Muslims to lie to anyone NOT a Muslim, but recommends this technique. We know the mistakes of a Hudna. We've learned a lot about Islam over the past four years, and the understanding of it both as a religion and as a political operation has grown as well.
NEVER AGAIN! We cannot allow the same mistakes made in Vietnam happen in Iraq and Afghanistan, or to keep us from destroying enemy troops, stockpiles of equipment, or weapons, REGARDLESS of where they're stored. "War happens when diplomacy fails" is more apt than "War is another form of diplomacy". If we DO wage war against any foe, it should be done with the greatest force necessary to accomplish the objectives. If that means totally crushing our opponents, let's do it. If it means removing one set of lunatics to install another, let's try something else.
As you said, this is going to be a long war. Let's learn from our mistakes, both in Vietnam and the Cold War, and not make them again. Let's also try to be a little bit smarter this time, and not make too many NEW mistakes.
We may never nuke Mecca, but at the same time we should never state that we won't. We must also be willing to carry through if we feel it's necessary.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/01/2005 22:37 Comments ||
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#33
"...and trying to establish a reasonably democratic state in the heart of Fanaticstan is a counterattack on the caliphate."
Except that we misunderestimated the extent of the fanaticism there, and the Constitution looks increasingly like a roadmap to theocracy, complete with built-in Jew hatred.
August 1, 2005: Turkish security forces reported the five Kurd insurgents died in a firefight on July 23. The battle took place in Sirnak Province. The same Turkish report also said that ten PKK rebels had died in a firefight that occurred in Sirnak on July 16. Initial reports said that "several" rebels had died in that fight but gave no firm figure. Ten PKK guerrillas killed in one battle inside Turkey is a large death toll. That suggests the Turkish military or security troops ambushed a rebel group infiltrating across the border. Meanwhile, on July 24 the Turkish government said it has "the right" to attack PKK guerrillas inside Iraqi territory "if the Iraqi and U.S. sides do not fulfill their responsibilities." Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari disagreed, saying that Turkish incursions would have a "de-stabilizing effect." Iraq, however, acknowledges that Turkey has a legitimate interest. Zebari added: "We have an obligation to Turkey and to control all non-Iraqi armed groups and prevent them from activities against neighboring countries."
Meanwhile, over in Iran, Iranian Kurds are once again restive. On July 30, 300 Iranian Kurds staged a major protest in Iran's Kurdistan Province. The demonstrators were protesting the arrest, torture, and murder of a Kurd by Iran's State Security Forces in mid-July. The young Kurdish man was arrested in Iran's West Azerbaijan province. Since the arrest, there have been several small protests in Kurdish towns throughout northwestern Iraq. Iranian security forces fired on demonstrators in the town of Oshnavieh and killed three people.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/01/2005 09:33 ||
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#1
Turkish troops remain in Iraq, as far as I can tell, just as they did before Saddam fell. The Turks have defacto occupied several stretches of border and maintained special ops units in several northern Iraqi cities.
#4
Kurds are pissed off and I doubt they'll cease being pissed off now that they've got a lil bit of legitimacy in the world.
There participation in Iraq's govt seems like a temporary stint till a kurdish nation emerges amongst Turkey, Iran and Kurdish controlled Iraq.
Traditional homelands die slowly if ever, and the ten year reposte we gave them to gather themselves under our air protection didn't hurt their cause.
Turks shouldn't count on any Iraqi assistance unless it comes in the form of some peshmerga revenge against select PKK targets, hbut in reality that has little to do with Turkey, it would just be a convenient excuse to off a few political enemies.
BAGHDAD, Aug. 1 (UPI) -- Iraqi National Congress accused ousted dictator Saddam Hussein's followers of the failed attempt to kill Deputy Prime Minister Ahmed Chalabi. A spokesman for Chalabi's party, Intifad Kanbar, said Monday the attempt Sunday, which Chalabi survived, in the so-called "death triangle" south of Baghdad was planned and carried out by Muslim extremist partisans of the former Iraqi president.
Kanbar projected more attempts against Iraqi officials, noting an investigation already started into the assassination attempt.
Sniff, sniff, is that a crackdown I smell cooking?
He also pointed out a police officer working at the palace of congresses in Baghdad's heavily-guarded "Green Zone" was arrested on suspicion of relaying information to the terrorists on the movement of Iraqi officials and members of the National Assembly. Chalabi was traveling from Baghdad to the central city of Karbala when his convoy came under heavy automatic fire near the city of Latifiya. One of his bodyguards was killed and three others injured.
Posted by: Steve ||
08/01/2005 09:27 ||
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#1
"Sniff, sniff, is that a crackdown I smell cooking?" Here's hoping. And it's about freaking time. Enough of the waltzing, already. Saddam's goons are never going to like the new government, so stop trying to make nice.
Posted by: Whiskey Mike ||
08/01/2005 10:48 Comments ||
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#2
Muslim extremist partisans of the former Iraqi president?
I thought Saddahms folks were secularist (Ba'athists), and the extremists were always under assault by him too...
Whoever these guys are, they need to be handled...
If non-Iraqi, perhaps to Gitmo, or one of those hidden prisons made famous by Turban de Durban, for some "Victoria's Secret Fashion Show Questioning"...
If Iraqi, then let Chalabi's boys quietly "handle" questioning there in Baghdad....
Jack Kelly: Quagmire for al-Qaida
Terrorists are feeling the heat in Iraq
Sunday, July 31, 2005
....except in news reports, the war in Iraq has been going poorly for al-Qaida. Retired Gen. Jack Keane, former vice chief of staff of the Army, said in a speech July 25 that so far this year, U.S. and Iraqi security forces have killed or captured more than 50,000 insurgents... While the majority of these have to be people who were interviewed and released, that's still an impressive total.
Car bombings, al-Qaida's specialty, have fallen from (a record high of) 170 in April to 151 in May to 133 in June, with less than 100 so far in July. (Journalists describe this as a "worsening" trend.) Al-Qaida could be storing up for an offensive when the new Iraqi constitution is unveiled next month. We'll know soon enough.
The targets have shifted in emphasis from American forces to Iraqi forces to Shiite civilians to, most recently, Sunni Arabs who are cooperating with the government....
Of course if Al Queda is perceived as losing in Iraq, the collateral damage to Move-on, the DU, Howard Dean will be considerable. There will be many sad faces in the faculty lounge at UC Berkeley.
#1
One day I'm up, the next day I'm down.... about the war on terror, I mean. This was a nice conclusion to the article, and what is the start of what I hope is an "up" day -
If al-Qaida is indeed shifting personnel out of Iraq, expect to hear more about Iraq as an "incubator" for terrorism. But what, pray tell, do the promoters of this theory imagine Zarqawi and his minions would have been doing these past two years if there had been no war in Iraq? Origami?
Iraq has indeed proven to be a quagmire. But not for us.
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/01/2005 9:37 Comments ||
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#2
(Journalists describe this as a "worsening" trend.)
Is for them -- their allies (Al Qaida) are getting the collective asses kicked.
#4
Having things devolve into carbombings with high collateral damage tolls and sectarian rants by the CEO for the subsidiary don't scream success. Given the ethnic and religious makeup of Iraq and the lack of a clear longterm political goal to justify the means it's no wonder AQ can't garner more support and success. As to the longterm, they cannot disown the nasty words toward the shia nor can they disown the work of the bombers.
#5
Aha! I *knew* there was a quagmire in there somewhere. Quackmire! Quackmire!
To be serious for a moment, the phrase '...except in news reports' is a ruthless indictment of how events in Iraq and Afganistan have been reported. The filtered information stream that shows up in the daily newspapers removes the media from being reporters of events to active participants in trying to decide the outcome.
And I am not just talking about Al Jiz here. One of my 'favorite' examples was an AP story headlined something like "Rumsfeld Says We Have No Exit Strategy". If you actually read the article,his said we don't have an exit strategy, we have a victory strategy; the complete opposite of sense of what you got reading the headline.
#6
If you really want to be appalled, in the Mudville Gazette blog they have a recap of some of the MSM's recent pronouncements of quagmire, collapse, imminent failure and dogs and cats sleeping together. To say that they are stretching the truth is an understatement, they are positively hallucinating.
#7
What was it Joe Goerbells (I KNOW that's not spelled rite) said about telling lies often enough?
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/01/2005 12:05 Comments ||
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#8
I don't like the MSM very much but comparing them to Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels is way overboard.
The L portion of the MSM (which is 80% of the MSM) have an opinion with which we may disagree. They selectively use facts to support that opinion. They occasionally even get a few facts wrong but they think they are the facts even when they aren't.
Goebbels simply made things up - lots of things. He knew he was making them up and he was attempting to provoke riots, murder, etc.
#9
I don't like the MSM very much but comparing them to Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels is way overboard.
The L portion of the MSM (which is 80% of the MSM) have an opinion with which we may disagree. They selectively use facts to support that opinion. They occasionally even get a few facts wrong but they think they are the facts even when they aren't.
Goebbels simply made things up - lots of things. He knew he was making them up and he was attempting to provoke riots, murder, etc.
#10
While I like the thought of 50,000 captured, this article seems very incorrect in its conclusions and here's why.
50,000 insurgents doesn't equal 50,000 al qaida. It's a big, big jump to say the Sunnis and baathists are al qaida. They are not. They may logistically support some factions of al qaida when it is convenient for them, and their battles may be fought side by side, but most fighters in Iraq are surely not foreign, but locals, Sunnis, who know that their day in the sun as Saddam's favorites is over. Suicide bombers, different story, most of these are foreigners, but only add up to a few hundred fighters, cannon fodder for the jihadi war machine.
However, that being said, the resistance in Iraq is failing, but the Al qaida in Iraq, different story. Indeed Al Qaida in Iraq is succeeding in their goal of creating sectarian strife between the Sunnis and Shiites + Kurds. We will be damn lucky if Civil War doesn't break out before we pull most of our boys home, no matter how successful our rebuilding is going.
Indeed Al Qaida is succeeding marvelously in Iraq, for their goal is chaos, and chaos still reigns supreme in too much of Iraq. Just ask our boys who are dodging IEDs and rocket attacks and see what they say.
Let's not be as ignorant as the MSM in our pronouncements of victory over one enemy as a victory against another.
For whether or not the Sunni insurgency succeeds is no indicator of Al qaida's success. Iraq is simply a convenient battle ground for increased jihadi recruitment and training, when the Zarqawis of this war have tired of killing people in Iraq, they will simply take the battle elsewhere, preferably, in their minds it seems, to Saudi Arabia where they will continue to fight for the throne of the land of Mecca and Medina and then the world.
Our immediate victory in Iraq is IMVHO no indicator of a larger victory against al qaida, but only one battle in a larger war, and illusions of "mission accomplished against al qaida" after we beat back the insurgency in Iraq.
We will be fighting al qaida and their like long after Iraq is barely spoken of in the news.
#11
I don't like the MSM very much but comparing them to Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels is way overboard.
Overblown Abu Ghrab, Gitmo, burying the good news, publishing half truths, trying desperately to tag Rove with the Plame outing [if there really was one], repeating the 'Bush Lied' routine, accepting anything released by the enemy as truth. Nah, nothing here, just MoveOn.
Oh, and they want International Law to override the US Constitution. Wonder how much they'll really love that when the Julius Streicher precedence comes into play. There can be little question that major players have created an atmosphere of hate and loathing based on false reporting and half truths.
And before you haul up the First Admendment remember it is based upon the Colonial case of the Royal Govenor of New York versus Zenger, to which the court established truth as the defense.
#13
Comparing the MSM to Goebbels is very unfair -to Goebbels! Goebbels was a loyal Nazi and stayed faithful to the end. Where is the loyalty of the MSM? Certainly not to the truth!
Al
Posted by: Frozen Al ||
08/01/2005 14:35 Comments ||
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#14
I don't like the MSM very much but comparing them to Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels is way overboard.
The L portion of the MSM (which is 80% of the MSM) have an opinion with which we may disagree. They selectively use facts to support that opinion. They occasionally even get a few facts wrong but they think they are the facts even when they aren't.
Goebbels simply made things up - lots of things. He knew he was making them up and he was attempting to provoke riots, murder, etc.
And your point? The press is heavily agenda driven and will say or print anything to advance that agenda. As to simply making things up, what about: Jason Blair - NYTimes; Barbara Stewart, Patricia Smith, Mike Barnicle, Boston Globe; et. al.
Perhaps the press has always been agenda driven, but as educational standards have inexorably dropped since the 60's, so has the education background and writing abilities of modern jouranlists. They are peddling shoddier products than before and are just more obvious and nastier about their propaganda.
I did not intend to compare the MSM to the late Dr. Goebbels, I was merely pointing out they (MSM) had learned a lesson from him - if you repeat something often enough, it may/will come true. Or am I thinking of Stalin?
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/01/2005 15:05 Comments ||
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#16
This whole meme about the AlQ guys in Iraq makes no sense. Any Arab can lurk in an arab town (pretty much all the same shitholes) and not really seem out of place. But put that same jihadi in London or Paris or Rome, and they will be completely disoritented and stand out like a beacon.
Thousands of southern Sudanese wielding knives and bars have looted shops and clashed with police in the streets of Khartoum after learning of the death of ex-rebel leader John Garang. "People have been running all over the streets. The policemen are taking people from the streets. There is fire and smoke," a Reuters TV witness said on Monday. "They are beating anybody they see who looks like they are Arab," said Swayd Abdullah, a student.
Oh. Gosh. Darn.
Shops closed and there was a heightened security presence in the streets, witnesses said. The southern Sudanese, who recently gave Garang a tumultuous welcome when he travelled north to take up his post as vice-president in the new power-sharing government, smashed cars and shops in several hours of rioting, the witnesses said. Some gunfire could be heard, although it was not clear whether that was in mourning for Garang or from fighting.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 07:45 ||
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#1
So, I'm not the only one who thought this "accident" suspicious?
"It is not true. There are no Christians rioting in Khartoum... They are all peacfully going about their business in their mud huts in the south of the country."
Sudanese President Omar Hassan Al-Bashir said on Monday the Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) will choose the successor of late Sudanese Vice-President John Garang according to the Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA).
Al-Bashir said in a speech at the cabinet's extraordinary session there would be continuous cooperation with the SPLA and other concerned parties in a wider scale. SPLA leaders started numerous meetings today to discuss the arrangement of Garang's funeral. An official, who preferred anonymity, told KUNA three meetings for SPLA leaders are currently taking place in Rumbek in the Kenyan capital Nairobi and also in a southern town in Sudan. The source said the movement is capable of choosing its new leader, strongly refuting reports that SPLA leaders were incapable of reaching agreement on this point.
Garang was born in 1945 to a Christian family in Bor, a southern Sudanese town that is home to one of the top tribes in the south. His family later moved to Tanzania where he got his high school degree and was sent to the US to continue his studies at Cornell University in Iowa. Garang, a former southern rebel leader, was sworn in as first vice president on July 9 after he played a key role in reaching the peace deal earlier this year, which ended 21 years of civil war that killed more than two million people. Many hoped that his role in the transitional government would bring peace to other volatile regions in Sudan, including Darfur.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 07:38 ||
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#2
It was not until the 1970s that Islamists came to the fore through a combination of factors: Israel's defeat of Arab armies in 1967 which broke the prestige of Arab nationalists; Saudi Arabia's petro-dollars which gave Islamists the means to proselytise around the Muslim world; and Ayatollah Khomeini's Islamic revolution which overthrew the Shah of Iran in 1979.
One of those actions coincides with a person recently embarrassed by the Guantanamo detention center. In the middle of fueling the problem in 1979, and complaining about one of the trivial consequences in 2005, is a peanut farmer, who did serve his country well while in the Navy.
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/01/2005 8:02 Comments ||
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#3
"Our nation has been tasting this humiliation and contempt for more than 80 years"
And with the efforts of the past 4 years I'm sure it will continue for a long time to come. Nice to know some of your neighbors have grandiose plan for you eh?!
#4
They want an Islamic state? There is one, between Iraq and Afghanistan. Mebbe they doan like their neighbors?
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/01/2005 8:07 Comments ||
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#5
a peanut farmer, who did serve his country well while in the Navy.
From things some posters have said on the subject, bobby, it seems to me that sentence should read, a peanut farmer, who did serve his country well while in the Navy. A shame, too, we should be able to be proud of all who wore the uniform.
#6
If they wanted an Islamic state they went about it the wrong way. RJ's Three step plan This should have been done instead of 9/11.
(1) Do not threaten Israel, befriend Israel, at least for now. Befriend the US. The goal is to take over the Islamic states (and oil) not to get crushed like a bug. Instead make the west very comfortable as you increase immigration. Try to guide Islamic Immigration into the most dangerous nations like France and England. The Nordic countries will bend over when the time comes so use them as a stepping stone but not final location. Win in Europe demographically.
(2) Take over the Egyptian government from within. Use everything you can to take them down including NGOs in the west complaining about US support of a dictator, power of the people, etc. When Egypt is taken make sure Israel feels safe by pulling troops away from their border. Go after the Sudan in order to stop the civil war and bloodshed and get their oil (and get practice). The libs would love you for it because you're not a colonial white power and you'd stop the bloodshed they were unwilling to stop. Follow that up with an invasion of Libya, use whatever pretext would make the Americans happy but domestically use the United Arab Republic line. Take their oil and WMD program. Now you are a player and the West still has no idea you are an enemy.
(3) Subvert Pakistan. They were close to falling before they flipped because of Sept 11. Keep working on Pakistan. Keep up a low-level insurgency in Kashmir to help radicalize the area.
If they'd done this the bad guys would have had two major bases of operation, the Western one with oil, the eastern one with nukes and NATO would be wasting their time keeping Saddam in a box while Islamic immigration continued into Europe.
#7
We should never marginalize anyone's service to their country unless they've been dishonorably discharged, or disapplined in such away it shows that they weren't worthy of the uniform. Many asshat's have served. John F'in Kerry, case in point.
I used to think Jimmuh was decent but hopelessly misguided. My view has changed sustantially after the past 20 years of shameless attention whoring and putting more faith in international organizations than his own country.
#8
The corollary was that Muslims who did not subscribe to Qutb's notion of an Islamist "vanguard" could be declared unbelievers, or kafir. Qutb was executed before fully elaborating his theory, but it has been seized upon by extreme jihadis to justify killing innocent Muslims.
#9
I know, JerseyMike. But not all who put on the uniform are good at what they try to do. Imagine what a cock-up I'd make if I tried to be a Marine! Although I would try very hard, and probably everyone would feel sorry for me when they let me go.
During yesterday's vitriolic conversation, the insinuation was made that "someone threatened to withhold donations in order to get Aris banned."
Rantburg is a free site. If you feel like donating, then donate. If you don't want to, don't. I greatly appreciate all donations, but any profit I make is minimal. What doesn't go for bandwidth goes into the software/hardware fund, unless I decide to piss it away on beer.
I don't run the site to make money. If nobody donates, the site will still be here. I try not to ban people, but if I do, that's my decision. I try to be a gracious host, and I've banned very few people. Some people don't appreciate the fact.
I'll also add that Rantburg is not a hate site. If it starts to turn into one, I'll shut it down.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:09 ||
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#1
Bring the goat fucker back!!
A plug for the Greek we all know and love!!
#2
Now, now, LHR, Fred just said he wasn't in it for the money---so why'd you have to go and do that?
(Speaking of beer... grin!)
But on topic, I don't think any of us would threaten to withold funding in order to get someone banned... the very idea is pretty fricked up, and very indicative of a dysfunctional thought process.
Otherwise you'd think that Fred would hold a bannination auction every month?!?! What sort of people are we?
I give when I can, not necessarily always in the same name. Sometimes someone would spur me to give out of concern for the bandwidth I was eating replying to them... but we won't go there.
#8
My 2c worth. One of the things that makes RB unique is the lattitude Fred allows posters and consequently the diversity of opinions. All of us would have different views of what is acceptable/unacceptable. For example, I don't have a problem with 'Bring back the goat fucker', it has a certain irony to it, and I speak as the person at one time most hostile to Aris. OTOH last night I thought last night's remark about going to your local mosque and killing a thousand was unacceptable because it didn't really add anything to the debate, I don't think LHR meant it literally, and it sets us up as a target.
IMO there is nothing wrong with using the F word in certain situations and in-your-face language in general - .com has elevated it almost to an art form.
The problem is what I call noise, the stuff you skip over to get to the good stuff. Mikey's JU posts are just noise, as was Aris's stuff, as are the posts from people who repeat the same things (which generally didn't add much the first time) over and over, and the nuke Mecca type comments.
I don't envy the editors their job, but IMVHO its time to find a way to limit the noise. I am sure we can come up with ideas. Anyone else watch reality TV? Maybe vote someone off for 48 hours?
#9
I'm beginning to think it might be better if we all took a one month vacation. You know, to recharge before posting or commenting again.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
08/01/2005 2:04 Comments ||
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#10
Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who feels like our country is at war. I think about what my grandfather and what he went through during WWII. I love this site. I don't like to beat around the "shrub" when it comes to this stuff.
I admit it, I post stuff that makes me ill. I do. I think as a country we are becoming a bunch of pussies. We are not the same as we were and it scares me.
I love my country so very much. I am just a god guts and guns type of American. I would and do anything to preserve our way of life.
If I am an idiot to some...fine. I don't care. Especially from some jerk off named Pappy. But be honest with me. A Bio Bomb, a nuke blast in one of our city's and you are going to tell me that you would not want to take some action?
We are becoming a nation of pussies and it just pisses me off to no end. Our men and women are fighting a war with one arm and one leg tied behind their back. On top of all that 50% of our nation does not feel there is a threat to our way of life. Well FUCK that!
To me, it's down right scary how some of you so called hard liners react to some of the news now days. To much TV....go home you sit in your fucking chair and not give a shit.
Shame on you! Diluted Americans is what I read and see now.
Fred ban me anytime you want. I will and always will express myself on this site.
Yes I do have hate and it is generated towards the enemy of my country. If you don't think this is the second Crusade then you are the idiot.
One of them is Pappy. You're fairly new here and you clearly don't have a clue about what he has done to defend this country. If you really are a gun/guts/God person then Pappy is who you should want to grow up to be.
As to what's wrong with your first comment here - and a lot of other comments by a lot of people at RB lately, too - well, you can make your point without language like "goat fucker".
As far as "will express myself here no matter" what I'm pretty sure that Fred can and will ban your ass if you start eroding the value of this site to others. It's his call, but I personally am getting sick of the casual hatred being thrown around on at RB lately. The next decade or more is going to present us with some pretty hard decisions - bad ones, no good options, ones that push us right up against our deepest values. Let's not indulge this hatred crap or start calling the patriotism of others into question here. You don't have a clue -- and I repeat that to be sure you hear it -- you don't have a clue what some of the RB regulars here are doing for the defense of this country. And unless YOU are out there doing similar things, you don't have a leg to stand on with the sort of shit you just posted here.
There will be more hard choices than we really want in our near future. And some of the regulars here know exactly what that will entail, in far more detail than you show any evidence of understanding.
There are a lot of people who read RB from work and whose jobs might be on the line if the site continues to erode towards open hatred. If Fred has to choose between them and you, well ....
Posted by: too true ||
08/01/2005 6:06 Comments ||
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#12
I have no particular reason to defend LHR, but he has been around for a while, at least a year, and in my experience civil and prepared to engage on the issues. I'll wait to see what others have to say before commenting further.
Mostly, I agree. But the "jerkoff like Pappy" line he threw out here wasn't. And was off base, as was the in-your-face tone of that comment.
I guess mine was in-your-face back, so let me tone it down and just say:
let's avoid the open hatred and the attacks on the patriotism, balls or whatever of others here. Especially of the good guys. Nearly everyone here at RB is on the right side -- if we start attacking each other we will NOT win this war.
And, if we start talking hate we will not have the rest of the country on our side when we have to take actions that I think most of us hope fervently we can avoid.
Posted by: too true ||
08/01/2005 6:34 Comments ||
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#14
Fred, thanks for your clarifications about Aris. And I will try to follow your guidance about posting JU articles.
I love Rantburg, but in February I decided to leave because I was fed up with the ugly dog-pack attacks on Aris and anyone else who challenged the group-think here. I came back recently and found immediately that it still goes on (#18).
While I was gone, I spent time on other sites and found that many are free of such misbehavior. It doesn't have to be like this. You have moderators and a Sink Trap. Use them.
Some of your regulars are the worst offenders. In most cases, one trip to the Sink Trap would suffice.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/01/2005 7:03 Comments ||
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#15
Hey Fred, don't you dare spend my contribution on "software" or "bandwith." That money is soley for beer. Jeez, ya'would'na thought I'd have to spell that out.
#16
I agree, Rantburg was originally set up to track and better understand the War on Terror, and just about everyone here supports it, including Aris.
Most of the hostility directed against someone began with their support of the EU, which is a valid opinion the opposition to which seems to have more to do with an imagined ideological purity of the site, rather than a group of people who understand the threat posed by the Global Jihad.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
08/01/2005 7:43 Comments ||
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#17
I believe it was Aris' continuous lecturing of Americans on what Americans believe/think/do that got on people's nerves.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/01/2005 7:56 Comments ||
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#18
I perceive that most of the constant, furious attacks against me are based substantially on only two issues: my arguments 1) against using extraordinary interrogation methods and 2) for staying in the UN. Because of those arguments, a few people have attack me personally at every opportunity for months and months.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/01/2005 7:56 Comments ||
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#19
You are not exactly correct in your perceptions MS. There are better reasons. PS HINT - You can't be jesus if you go ahead and nail your own self up on the cross.
#20
No, Mike, most of the attacks on you have to do with your attitude -- as partially exposed in these two quotes from you yesterday:
"Although I did not start posting these absurd casualty reports in order to offend other Rantburgers, I indeed have been amused to see that a few people pretend to be seriously offended by the articles."
People aren't pretending. We ARE offended by your steady dose of enemy propaganda.
"I don't post Jihad Unspun articles because I agree with them. I post them because I think they will interest other people. I think also that these casualty articles are funny."
They're not funny. The fact that you regularly visit their source and help propagate them suggests a serious character flaw to me.
Finally, I ponder this:
"While I was gone, I spent time on other sites and found that many are free of such misbehavior."
My sense of it is that Rantburg was pretty well behaved while you were gone. And if other sites are free of misbehavior, what drew you back -- the desire to spread Jihad Unspun without comment?
Posted by: Neutron Tom ||
08/01/2005 8:28 Comments ||
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#21
Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who feels like our country is at war
Understood. I think that's what is driving a lot of the the nastiness here and elsewhere lately -- a feeling that big things are at stake and the people around us aren't paying attention or don't care.
LHR feels as if people at RB are pussies because s/he (sorry LHR, I don't know if your a guy or a gal) doesn't see people saying/doing what s/he would.
Mike S. and Aris feel that they have to defend the UN and other things. Liberalhawk cares about civil liberties. And so on.
Meanwhile, in order to get more support, people bash the others here. The beatings will continue until morale improves and you agree with me .....
It's time to take a deep breath and stand down a little. Most people are here because they care about the war we're in. That's a basis for our working together even if we disagree on the steps to take.
And ----- this is Fred's backyard. We are all guests here and should behave accordingly. If you really want to get pissed drunk, smash beer bottles and crank up the loud music, do it at your own site. There's plenty of room at blogspot or typepad or in the comments of other sites who already have been trashed that way.
#22
Mike Sylvester wrote: love Rantburg, but in February I decided to leave because I was fed up with the ugly dog-pack attacks on Aris and anyone else who challenged the group-think here.
Robert Crawford responded: I believe it was Aris' continuous lecturing of Americans on what Americans believe/think/do that got on people's nerves.
Well, I just got extremely tired of defending someone who with every other word out of his mouth was accusing me and about half my country of being religious extremists on a par with the taliban. If being pissed off with that is groupthink, then it's groupthink you'll have to get used to.
Mike S also wrote: I perceive that most of the constant, furious attacks against me are based substantially on only two issues: my arguments 1) against using extraordinary interrogation methods and 2) for staying in the UN. Because of those arguments, a few people have attack me personally at every opportunity for months and months.
It's not merely the arguments, it's the way you conduct them. You accuse everyone who disagrees with you about interrogation of advocating torture and on other subjects you have an extremely passive-aggressive style of argumentation where you never definitively state anything for yourself. You've never outright said _your_ beliefs about the UN until now.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
08/01/2005 8:38 Comments ||
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#23
But be honest with me. A Bio Bomb, a nuke blast in one of our city's and you are going to tell me that you would not want to take some action?
We'll take action when it happens. Some are taking action right now to keep it from happening. But unless you're in the need to know chain, you don't ... ok? Doesn't mean it ain't happening.
I like RB because a lot of people here are doing things in the WOT or used to serve. Their recon on the news is pretty valuable, but it's getting obscured with all the hot air that a few people are putting out.
And Mike just cause you set the fire rather than puff smoke doesn't let you off the hook - you're a part of the real problem here lately in my book.
#24
For the record, 3 years ago Aris drove me completely nuts like non-one else before or since, and because I'm not American it wasn't his anti-Americanism, then I got over it and he just became noise.
#25
You accuse everyone who disagrees with you about interrogation of advocating torture
I have never done that. Never.
I have argued that it is counter-productive.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/01/2005 9:08 Comments ||
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#26
You've never outright said _your_ beliefs about the UN until now.
???
I'm speechless.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
08/01/2005 9:09 Comments ||
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#27
Posted by: Howard UK ||
08/01/2005 9:15 Comments ||
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#28
Mike, take a position and defend it. Posting ersatz news without comment doesn't count. The unwritten rule here is that you can post breaking news without comment, but otherwise you have to explain in your comments by whatever means why this is of significance. You don't do that. And you have to engage on the issues raised. So, prove me wrong and do it.
#29
Coming in on #28. Aris didn't have much support at the end, Mike, and I only saw the last couple of months. Looks like you've still got a chance here.
So let me give you my support, such as it is:
Some interrogation methods are counterproductive on some people, but very effective on others. That's why good interrogators have a wide range of 'tools' in the toolkit.
The UN could serve a useful purpose, even it is just a vehicle to allow folks to bash Americans. It's better than blowing up embassies and seizing hostages for 444 days.
They certainly have not been very effective in reducing genocide - oh, wait, that didn't happen in Darfur, or any other place they didn't go. Better International Relations Through Semantics™.
Then there's Oil-for-Food, perverted by Saddam and the UN staff. Every Silver Lining Has A Cloud™. That's why I think Bolton's flames will be useful, over time.
Posted by: Bobby ||
08/01/2005 9:55 Comments ||
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#31
Since my Samos IP hasn't be banned yet, only my Athens one, here's an opportunity to clarify things for one last time. I expect this IP to be banned also immediately, ofcourse, so I'll try to
make this post as comprehensive as can be made.
In my opinion someone can't be "Anti-American" when that same someone thinks that America is probably among the top 10 best countries in the world. Perhaps people are offended that I never considered America to be THE top country in the world, but that's a rather parochial view, I think.
If I'm "lecturing Americans about America", please remember how many times me, as a European, has been lectured about Europe and have had to hear words like "Eurabia". As a sidenote I've NEVER used (nor do I believe in) words like "AmeriKKA".
I'm not sure I've *ever* defended the UN. I believe it does a random amount of both good and bad and it's anyone guess which is the most. Disband it and I won't much care. Replace it and I think it's even odds whether the replacement will be better or worse. So I'm not that passionate over it one way or another.
My regular IP was banned shortly after I hoped that Frank G. would drop dead, which may have been a morally wrong thing to wish for, but it came from the heart. He's certainly not endeared himself to me since. E.g. the way he thought I'd have rabid hatred for the French after not voting the way I'd prefer about the European Constitution: I certainly don't expect him to have any understanding for the concept of "respect for democracy" and how I could never have the slightest bit of hatred for a people that voted as they had every moral right to so vote. (As opposed to many Rantburgers which e.g. loathed the whole Spanish people after they voted for Zapatero)
I do think that several Rantburgers have the heart of genocidal murderers or atleast the words of such. This has expressed itself in many ways over the years, from once-upon-a-time insisting on the forcible conversion-on-point-of-death of the whole Muslim world, and more lately by niftily calling Muslim moderates "mythical" which implies that since *every* Muslim is therefore an extremist, it's your rightful duty to exterminate them all. And if people don't understand that those are the implications of their own words, then I do find it enjoyable to clarify them on their behalf.
I think that to consider a possible failure of democracy in Iraq as an indication that it's impossible to democratize *any* Muslim nation, is a coward's way out of the situation. By blaming Islam, you refuse to blame your choice of Iraq as the nation to become your democratic domino keypiece despite the many inherent problem of Iraq's situation. (Still think that you should have picked Syria, btw)
And lastly I think that using the word "pussy" to signify cowardice is subconsciously (or even consciously) misogynical, not to mention ironic when the same poster mentions the brave men and WOMEN who fight the good fight.
Bye bye. I expect this IP to be soon redirected to "roadsideamerica" also.
#34
Hey! That's wasn't so bad. I say, let him back in! OTOH, I wish to remain safely anonymous, since I haven't pissed off everyone else yet.
Posted by: Afraid to Use my Real Name ||
08/01/2005 10:19 Comments ||
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#35
more lately by niftily calling Muslim moderates "mythical" which implies that since *every* Muslim is therefore an extremist, it's your rightful duty to exterminate them all.
What an odd, sick mind you must have, if that's the implication you've drawn.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/01/2005 10:19 Comments ||
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#36
That's one of the reasons he raised hostility -- he loves to tell people what he thinks they think and then skewer them for the outcome of what he thinks they think. All arrogance, all the time.
Posted by: Neutron Tom ||
08/01/2005 10:24 Comments ||
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#37
Wow--I didn't really like the direction this thread took to begin with, but I'm really enjoying it now.
It really saddens me to see ad-hominem attacks on Rantburg when any two people can't agree. We need to have some dissenting ideas and free exchange of views on this site instead of a bunch of people slapping each other on the back for sharing the same views.
God help me, as set as I am in my views I do not want to be close-minded and I welcome a contrasting opinion. Whether it cause me to re-think or to re-affirm my opinion, at least it keeps my mind from becoming stagnant.
Posted by: Dar ||
08/01/2005 10:26 Comments ||
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#38
arid do maken theengs intrastin rownd heer tho.
#39
I came here to say some really nice things about Fred, and how his blog has been quietly kicking the behind of the NYT and other so-called press release news outlets for about 4 years now and lo and behold, here is Mike Sylvester Aris demanding attention once again. Only now instead of Aris tooting Aris' own horn, we have Aris pretending to be "Mike" tooting Aris' horn.
Aris may have a new IP and even have moved, but Aris it is. Some things are just soooo obvious we might as well acknowledge them.
#40
I'm missing something here, possibly because I lack subtlty. King Fod is dead. There' a significant chance the royal gene pool's going to be drained in the next few weeks. Garang is dead. There's a significant chance Sudan's going to explode in the next few hours, possibly into a dozen pieces.
And we're flinging rotted fruit at each other?
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 11:29 Comments ||
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#41
And we're flinging rotted fruit at each other?
Posted by Fred 2005-08-01 11:29|| Front Page|| Comment Top
no yoos throwen way that wich culd be yoos for entertaynment fred. :)
To me, it's down right scary how some of you so called hard liners react to some of the news now days. To much TV....go home you sit in your fucking chair and not give a shit.
There are plenty of present and former 'professionals' that visit and moderate this site. Methinks you and others mistake professional detachment for indifference.
Emotion is okay, when one has the luxury to display it. As I did when you uttered that, bigoted ethnic-based epithet about Aris. I apologize for calling you an idiot. Perhaps 'thoughtless' is the better term.
But at other times, emotion is... inappropriate, especially anger. I learned that the hard way as a young petty officer, when I came within a hair of shooting a sailor who decided a security alert was a pretend-game, tripped a responder carrying a shotgun, and may have damn near killed himself and three of his fellow crew (including me). I had a month suspension and a review board to think about that one.
Yes I do have hate and it is generated towards the enemy of my country. If you don't think this is the second Crusade then you are the idiot.
Then I suggest, if you are not already doing so, that you do something more substantial than berate and name-call.
#43
I have not often agreed with Aris but the only time I spoke out against him was when he wished death upon Frank G (who wasn't as pure as the driven snow either). I felt that an apology would have settled the matter.
A lively debate needs people who don't agree with you (trolls excepted). And it's interesting how often Aris was mentioned in threads long after he had left.
I guess he had time to cool off and if he so wishes I would like to read from him again (if Fred feels so, of course).
It also seems to me that Aris preferred this site over others to express his dissenting views. This actually speaks for Rantburg. Too many conservative sites ban dissenting opinions very quickly, Rantburg is not one of them which is one reason I prefer it.
Maybe we should all cool down a bit and chose to hear what others have to say. The postings at Kos and LGF are mostly predictable, those at Rantburg are not, and that's a very good thing.
Let's just keep out the name callings and the ad hominem attacks and we'll be fine.
#44
2 things my dear old momma taught me come to mind.
Try to ignore people who try and make you mad. Life is too short.
If you can't say anything nice about someone in public, keep your mouth shut, you may end up eating your bad words later and they will not taste very good.
#45
Americans are so much more complicated than this site could hope to resolve. We're all extremely different, with different backgrounds and different opinions. I appreciate this site (even after being banned) and will continue to read it (even if I'm banned a second time). It's a great medium to discuss what's going on in the GWOT and what literate, free-thinking people have to say about it. When it starts to break up into cliques and chickenhawks, it's definitly disapointing and loses the natural value Rantburg has. And by the way Pappy, you should've shot the squid.
#46
I have visited this site a few times before, and I believe that much of the language, and many of the comments and jokes which are found on this site are completely inappropriate. I strongly disagree with you, "phil_b" when you say that it is acceptable to use the "F word". I believe that language is a gift from our Lord, and it grieves me to see it so disrespected. Had such speech occured during our country's early years, it would have been outrageous; that we, who claim to be conservatives, see no problem with shows how far our once glorious nation has declined. I wish that the administrators of this site would make the rules regarding language usage much more strict than they currently are.
#47
I get more real information from this site than a host of others. People talk here the way they do in person and most of these commentors know a whole shitload more than I do. Kepp it up, people.
#48
Assume that the average Rantburgers are, like the children of Lake Wobegon, "above average." As my grandmother used to say, "Swearing means that the speaker isn't smart enough to use intelligent words." So, swearing and invective reduce the perceived IQ of the poster; and detract from the force of the poster's argument.
Dorothy Sayers once quoted a dowager's observation to a bright young man: "Some people can be funny without being vulgar; and some people can be both funny and vulgar. I suggest that you be one or the other."
There are many good minds posting and responding to Rantburg; please do not waste Fred's bandwidth with abuse.
#49
I for one, enjoy all the comments on here, they make me think, they make me mad, they make me laugh...what more can you ask for? I dont agree with all of them, but I do read them and try to take something away from them. I learn from you folks, I enjoy the banter and the insults--directed at the right people--and I absorb what I learn here. My only hope is that somehow, sometime, a solution will be found for the problems that face this world of ours...and I thank God for the troops that are defending our way of life in those far away places.
I dont post much, I would rather read and learn, so to all of you...thanks, you make my days a lot brighter and me a bit smarter about things that are going on....
Carry on folks...fight the good fight.
Posted by: Live to Ride ||
08/01/2005 18:50 Comments ||
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#50
Puritan, a great many Rantburgers are current/former military. Many are also male. When such get together, the language flows colourfully. As for America's founders, George Washington himself was much admired for his command of the colourful, and very off-colourful, language of his time. Even dear Jane Austen, maiden aunt writer on the subject of genteel romance and the perils of husband-hunting, was thought by her nieces and nephews to be entirely too off-colour and ribald for the eyes of early 19th century youth.
You'll have to make a choice, I'm afraid: Rantburg news and analysis with its accompanying language, or avoid both. Of course, you could do as I do, and take it as an opportunity to expand your vocabulary against future need. ;-)
#53
I strongly disagree with you, "phil_b" when you say that it is acceptable to use the "F word". I believe that language is a gift from our Lord, and it grieves me to see it so disrespected.
Fucking A bubba! Jeeebus hates for us to fucking cuss and take the lord name in a damn vein.
#55
Pappy, what happened to the guy that almost killed you and the other two? Just curious, but I'm sure a hard lesson learned.
Yes I think a healthy level of passion behind an opinion at times, brings interest to the mix.
I love this site and am very glad I found it. I like reading opinions from all different backgrounds.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/01/2005 21:15 Comments ||
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#56
Pappy, what happened to the guy that almost killed you and the other two? Just curious, but I'm sure a hard lesson learned.
He was a fireman apprentice who had just reported to the ship - maybe three hours before. The other sailor with him was showing him around. He was off the ship, with his seabag, and with a 'hardhat' shore patrol escort less than an hour after the incident. Part of that time was spent by him changing his pants.
Hard lesson for me, too. He was stupid. I had the training and the experience and should have known better to do what I did.
#57
Pappy, remember in Kindergarten cop with Arnold S. when he hit that dad who was beating up on his kid and the principal asked Arnold what it felt like hitting the dad. That it felt good.
It would be a good thing in the long run if they learned from it.
My dad had many great stories of when he was in Korea. Not many were politically correct either.
Posted by: Jan ||
08/01/2005 22:33 Comments ||
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#58
showt owt an helo an welkum to new posterz an reeders hoo doent post. :)
LAHORE: A cleric who led a mass prayer ceremony for one of the London suicide bombers at his ancestral village in the Punjab has been arrested as part of President Pervez Musharraf's anti-terrorism clampdown, The Washington Times reported on Sunday.
"Maulvi Abdul Rehman, 30, was held after he organised a ritual service in honour of Shehzad Tanweer, the 22-year-old Briton whose parents emigrated from Pakistan. Tanweer killed himself and six passengers in the July 7 mass transit bombing in London," it reported. "The ceremony, held at the Samoondran mosque in the Tanweer family's home village of Kottan in southern Punjab, saw members of the crowd of 100 hailing Tanweer as a 'hero of Islam'," The Washington Times added. "Information gleaned from Maulvi Rehman led to the detention of Maulana Abdul Aziz Faridi, the leader of a local seminary called Jamia Masjid Ahle-Sunnah Wal-Jammat.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Did Pakistan maybe get an ultimatum from the UK?
#3
Once upon a time in Western Civilization, someone could be found equally culpable as a criminal if they were found to act with a "common purpose" with said criminal. We should be jailing Muslims who defend terrorists, even if they haven't actually perpetrated terror. Why waste freedom-of-conscience on those aggressive globalist vermin? And don't accuse me of incriminating thoughts.
Posted by: Vlad the Muslim Impaler ||
08/01/2005 1:49 Comments ||
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#4
Introducing an extremely expensive visa system for Pak entry to the UK or simply limiting the numbers able to travel would do much to shut the asshats up. They shouldn't forget that the UK is one of the geese laying Pakland's golden eggs.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
08/01/2005 4:14 Comments ||
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#5
this is the one who got caught. what about the thousands who do it and don't?
and what about the millions of muslims who are secretly proud of this?
Police detained over 15 people on suspicion of being linked to the two bombings in Jacobabad city on Saturday. Police and rangers contingents had surrounded the city searching for the unidentified attackers. Security forces raided several places and arrested 15 men, who were later taken to an unknown place for interrogation. Police refused to give the detainees' names.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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BAMAKO: Mali's Gao Governor Colonel Amadou Baba Toure on Sunday announced an immediate ban on the activities of a group of Pakistani Islamists living in the zone along the border with Algeria. Hundreds of Pakistanis have arrived in Mali as part of a humanitarian aid and education effort, though once on the ground they turn their focus to preaching hard line positions that are not in line with the Muslim practice in the region, said Toure. He said, "We cannot accept that just anyone can come here and preach however they see fit." Though the group has not been formally identified as belonging to any particular sect, they preach an Islam that is "pure and hard," according to a municipal official, and are indoctrinating their disciples into an Islam that does not oppose violence.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Bud nipping the Salifists/Wahabi's funded in part by money from the magic kingdom I suspect. Smart move.
#3
Hundreds of Pakistanis have arrived in Mali as part of a humanitarian aid and education effort, though once on the ground they turn their focus to preaching hard line positions that are not in line with the Muslim practice in the region,
#4
Well, then. I guess we can add the population of Mali to the list of moderate Muslims. Doesn't make me feel any more comfortable about the ones in Britain or the US, though.
Odd, that. Maybe it's because the "western" ones keep picking extremist imams instead of rejecting them. Weird that Amadou Baba Toure in Mali is comfortable doing what those in Virginia won't.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
08/01/2005 10:36 Comments ||
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#5
good points RC.
I can think of several reasons for differences
1. West Africa is (parts of Nigeria apart) traditionally dominated by Sufism, and thus there are some folks who REALLY dont like the Salafis. US and UK Sunni muslim communities are largely non-Sufi, and more open to Salafism
2. Its not about poverty, its about humiliation and temptation. Muslims in the west are more confronted daily with the success of western culture, with the temptations of western culture etc. In Mali, they arent.
3. UK and US being new muslim communities, there was room for Salafis with Saudi money to get in on the ground floor, establishing mosques, schools etc. No local muslim establishment to resent and resist the influx.
#6
and are indoctrinating their disciples into an Islam that does not oppose violence.
This would tend to support Liberalhawk's assertion that the local Islamic tradition is Sufi. While Sufism isnât fanatically pacifistic it does lean toward the mystical, which is close enough for government work.
Pakistan Muslim League (PML) President Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain said on Sunday no action would be taken against seminary students in Pakistan and foreign seminary students would not be deported. âI will meet President Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and will request them to allow foreign students to complete their education in Pakistan,â he added.
"They will, of course, do as I ask..."
Registration of seminaries was not only a problem for the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal, but for the whole nation, he said, adding that it was the PML governmentâs policy to allow foreign students to study in Pakistan.
"I thought it was one of our better ideas..."
Hundreds of foreign students in Pakistanâs Islamic seminaries were on Sunday preparing to go home in line with an expulsion order that came amid a crackdown on militants after the deadly London bombings.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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Won't kick out foreign students?
Note: Edited for page-busting oversize graphic. Carry on! [seafarious]
One man was killed and six others injured as a result of gun battle between two tribes in the Taniwal district of the southeastern Khost province on Sunday.
"Go fer yer guns, Mahmoud!"
[BANG! BANG! BANGETY BANG!]
"Take that, yew varmint!"
Confirming the armed clash, officials said Piran and Tani tribes had conflicting claims regarding a vast tract of land in the district which led to the skirmish.
I saw this movie. Y'see, the Piran are cattlemen, and the Tani are sheep herders... Or is it the Piran that're sheep herders? I forget...
The exchange of fire started at 9 in the morning and continued till 11am until the law enforcement agencies interference silenced the guns on both sides, residents said.
"Paw! It's the sherrif!"
On contact, Khost marshal police chief General Mohammad Ayub confirmed the fight and casualties, saying police timely interference avoid further casualties.
Let everyone get their jollies and burn off their spare ammo, then shut down the festivities. And check it out, Afghanistan has law enforcement!
Giving details, Ayub said both Piran and Tani tribes had a long-standing dispute over a big chunk of land. The raw remained unresolved despite several efforts, which finally led to the armed clash. He said the situation was under control as police had convinced hundreds of fighters to leave their offensive positions.
"Yew boys got five minutes to get outta town, afore we sets this thing off!"
"Paw? I think he's serious!"
"The party's over, gents. Time to go vow Dire Revengeâ¢..."
Ugandan and Sudanese forces were searching for John Garang, the southern rebel leader-turned-vice president who is seen as crucial to Sudan's fledgling peace deal, early Monday after his helicopter disappeared amid reports it crashed in bad weather in northern Uganda. Garang, who was sworn in as vice president just three weeks ago, left on a flight from Uganda for southern Sudan at 5:30 p.m. Saturday, Sudanese and Ugandan officials said. It was not known when the last contact with his craft took place.
And he didn't know any better than not to take a helicopter ride? I thought he grew up in Sudan?
The 60-year-old Garang was in a Ugandan military helicopter that crash-landed in bad weather, likely on the Ugandan side of the border, Ugandan authorities said.
Ahhh... It was Ugandan. So even though he wouldn't have been caught dead it a Sudanese heli, he ends up being caught dead in an Ugandan machine...
From Sudan, there were wildly contradictory reports over the disappearance, although there was no word of foul play.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
Sudanese state television reported Sunday night that Garang's craft had landed safely, but Communications Minister Abdel-Basit Sabdarat went on TV hours later to deny the report. "Up to now we do not have any concrete new information about the whereabouts" of Garang's flight, he said. Garang's absence would be a heavy blow to the January peace deal that ended a 21-year civil war between the mostly Muslim north and the Christian and animist south in which some 2 million people died. Sudanese have celebrated the agreement — and a new constitution signed afterward — as opening a new chapter of peace and as a chance to resolve other bloody conflicts in Sudan, including the humanitarian crisis in the western region of Darfur.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
If he is dead... how long before the civil war restarts?
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 0:23 Comments ||
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#3
Condi did it after the little dust up with Andrea Mitchell and crew.
Condi is one tough person. Don't mess with her Sudanese thugs, she'll knee you in the gonads.
Posted by: Captain America ||
08/01/2005 0:54 Comments ||
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#4
When he became a VP a couple of weeks back, I was pretty sure he'd be a dead in an unfortunate accident fairly soon, just not this soon. I wonder why the Sudanese were in such a hurry?
#6
And he didn't know any better than not to take a helicopter ride? I thought he grew up in Sudan?
Mr. Fred has a good point here. If this fellow turns out to be a Darwin nominee, it is a pity that so many people were depending on him to keep the lid on the pot before it would probably blow off...
#7
The BBC is reporting him dead. Sudan VP Garang killed in crash "The BBC's Jonah Fisher says Mr Garang's importance in holding together southern Sudan cannot be overstated."
Israel would suspend its Gaza withdrawal and launch a massive ground offensive if Palestinian militants attack Israeli soldiers and settlers during the pullout, the deputy defense minister said Sunday in outlining the military's plans for the first time. The threat came less than three weeks before the start of the evacuation, which will mark the first time Israel has ever removed veteran settlements from the West Bank and Gaza. The first families to be uprooted from Gaza moved into temporary homes Sunday.
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has said repeatedly that the pullout from Gaza cannot be carried out under Palestinian fire. But he has made it clear Israel would stop the gunfire, not the pullout. While the Palestinian Authority is interested in a smooth handover of the volatile territory, violent groups like Hamas want to step up their attacks in an attempt to give the impression that Israelis are fleeing from the Palestinians.
Palestinian leaders say they are capable of taking control of Gaza, but they complain that Israel is not allowing them enough ammunition for their security forces, a complaint backed by the United States. Vice Premier Shimon Peres said Sunday that Israel should weigh giving the Palestinian police arms and ammunition. "If we tell the Palestinians to combat Hamas, we have to hear what their needs are," Peres told Israel Radio. Sharon aide Raanan Gissin said the Palestinians were using the ammunition issue as an excuse for inaction. "The solution is not in bullets," he said. "The solution is in upgrading and reforming the security services so they will only engage in security and not in terrorist activity."
Posted by: Fred ||
08/01/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
If I were a fightin pali-man lion of islam living in gazalan I be on the look out for something completely different, transfix 'em with gazalan and take out targets in the west bank..... abu abbas and dahlan will be safe in the gaza tank.
#2
a short snippet from my screenplay 'Brainless in Gaza":
Mahmoud: Abu, have you heard? The Israelis are leaving Gaza!
Abu: Yes, we must stop them. Grab that rocket launcher.
Mahmoud: Stop them? Why? For years, we have tried to get the Jews to leave. We should help them, ask if they need boxes, offer to load the moving trucks.
Abu: No! Whatever the Jews are for, we are against. Whatever the Jews are against, we are for.
Mahmoud: So if they want to stay, we must drive them out. And if they want to leave, we must stop them?
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
The newly appointed monarch, 81-year-old Crown Prince Abdullah, has been the kingdom's effective ruler for 10 years and is the main force behind unprecedented reform steps and a two-year crackdown on al-Qaida-linked militants. Abdullah, now officially king, will likely try to move his allies into key positions and push forward on reform and anti-terror tracks. But he must tread carefully: A clan of his half brothers in Saudi Arabia's sprawling royal family hold key defense and security posts and may resist swift change. Sticking to tradition, Abdullah immediately appointed his half brother, Defense Minister Prince Sultan, 77, as his crown prince and successor. 
That move keeps the throne among the sons of Abdul-Aziz, the founder of modern Saudi Arabia. But while Abdullah and Sultan appear in good health, the advancing age of their generation means the next â made up of dozens of Western-educated, technology-savvy princes â is already wrangling over the line of succession. Abdullah may find himself in a behind-the-scenes contest to maneuver his sons into position, while the close-knit circle of his half brothers, including Prince Sultan, the powerful interior minister, and the governor of Riyadh, does the same. The circle of brothers â known as the Sudeiri Seven, after their mother â have long dominated the main positions in the kingdom. Sultan and others in the Sudeiri Seven are seen as somewhat more resistant to change, with stronger links to the hard-line Islamic clerical establishment. The choice of Sultan is a sign that deep-rooted reform â which diplomats and analysts say is the only way the ruling Al Saud dynasty can ensure its survival â has been placed on the back burner as Abdullah pursues change at his own pace.
Saudi Arabia's King Fahd has died and Crown Prince Abdullah has swiftly been pronounced monarch of the world's largest oil exporter and key US ally. 
British and Saudi investigators are examining a series of phone calls, text messages and e-mails between leaders of the al Qaeda network in Saudi Arabia and unknown people in Britain from February to May for possible links to the recent bomb attacks in London or a still unidentified group of extremists operating in Britain, according to a Saudi official. After the July 7 bombings of London's transit system that claimed 56 lives, the British requested further information about the communications, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, and they are now part of the investigation. British officials declined to comment on the disclosure.
LONDON: A bag stuffed with bogus passports, documents and bank cards was found abandoned at Londonâs Heathrow Airport, a newspaper said yesterday. The News of the World called the find a âpotential terrorist goldmineâ and said anti-terrorist officers were urgently probing the discovery. The bag was spotted by a taxi driver on a verge near Londonâs main airport on Thursday. The paper said the fear was that the bag could have been meant to aid further bombers enter and exit the country.
Details of a âthird waveâ terror plot to carry out multiple suicide attacks were disclosed to senior police commanders at an emergency Special Branch conference held at Scotland Yard last Wednesday. All police leave was cancelled and hundreds of officers were instructed to book into central London hotel rooms. Members of the third cell are said to be independent of the July 7 and July 21 terrorists but have âassociationsâ with some of the suspects who have been arrested in connection with the July 21 attacks. Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of the anti-terrorist branch, said that despite capturing the four suspected bombers and a fifth man linked to the cell âthe threat remains and is very realâ. 
A second brother of a London bombing suspect jailed in Rome was arrested Sunday as investigators pressed their search for possible accomplices to the July 21 attackers. A top security official warned that the terror risk for the Italian capital remained high. Fati Issac was arrested in the northern industrial city of Brescia, national police said. He is a brother of Osman Hussain, a Briton also known as Hamdi Issac, who is accused of trying to bomb a London subway. His lawyer said Sunday that Hussain did not intend to kill anyone but only to attract attention.
Egyptian police have shot dead one of the prime suspects in the July 23 Sharm el-Sheikh bombings which killed at least 64 people, the Interior Ministry have said. Mohamed Fulayfel was killed in an exchange of fire with police near Gebel Ataqa, a hill 11 miles west of the town of Suez. His wife was also killed in the fire fight and their four-year-old daughter was injured. An Interior Ministry statement said that security forces approached a group hiding in quarries in near Gebel Ataqa after being given a tip-off. As they approached the area, gunmen opened fire at them. 
August 1, 2005: Turkish security forces reported the five Kurd insurgents died in a firefight on July 23. The battle took place in Sirnak Province. The same Turkish report also said that ten PKK rebels had died in a firefight that occurred in Sirnak on July 16. Initial reports said that "several" rebels had died in that fight but gave no firm figure. Ten PKK guerrillas killed in one battle inside Turkey is a large death toll. That suggests the Turkish military or security troops ambushed a rebel group infiltrating across the border. Meanwhile, on July 24 the Turkish government said it has "the right" to attack PKK guerrillas inside Iraqi territory "if the Iraqi and U.S. sides do not fulfill their responsibilities." Iraq's Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari disagreed, saying that Turkish incursions would have a "de-stabilizing effect." Iraq, however, acknowledges that Turkey has a legitimate interest. Zebari added: "We have an obligation to Turkey and to control all non-Iraqi armed groups and prevent them from activities against neighboring countries." 
LAHORE: A cleric who led a mass prayer ceremony for one of the London suicide bombers at his ancestral village in the Punjab has been arrested as part of President Pervez Musharraf's anti-terrorism clampdown, The Washington Times reported on Sunday.
Police detained over 15 people on suspicion of being linked to the two bombings in Jacobabad city on Saturday. Police and rangers contingents had surrounded the city searching for the unidentified attackers. Security forces raided several places and arrested 15 men, who were later taken to an unknown place for interrogation. Police refused to give the detainees' names.
Pakistan Muslim League (PML) President 
One man was killed and six others injured as a result of gun battle between two tribes in the Taniwal district of the southeastern Khost province on Sunday. 
Ugandan and Sudanese forces were searching for John Garang, the southern rebel leader-turned-vice president who is seen as crucial to Sudan's fledgling peace deal, early Monday after his helicopter disappeared amid reports it crashed in bad weather in northern Uganda. Garang, who was sworn in as vice president just three weeks ago, left on a flight from Uganda for southern Sudan at 5:30 p.m. Saturday, Sudanese and Ugandan officials said. It was not known when the last contact with his craft took place.
Israel would suspend its Gaza withdrawal and launch a massive ground offensive if Palestinian militants attack Israeli soldiers and settlers during the pullout, the deputy defense minister said Sunday in outlining the military's plans for the first time. The threat came less than three weeks before the start of the evacuation, which will mark the first time Israel has ever removed veteran settlements from the West Bank and Gaza. The first families to be uprooted from Gaza moved into temporary homes Sunday.
