Could also be titled "Professional intellect blows smoke, emits vapors"...
The West has taken sides in an ongoing civil war in Afghanistan, according to an area expert, who spoke at a discussion on Afghanistan hosted by the Ambassador of Pakistan, Mahmud Ali Durrani, at the Pakistan embassy on Monday.
The three speakers invited to talk about Afghanistan were Anatol Lieven, a former Times of London correspondent familiar with the region, anthropologist David B Edwards, who has worked and lived in the region for many years, and Brig Johnny Torrence-Spence, a former British military attaché in Islamabad.
Lieven found it ironic that those who were the Wests friends in Afghanistan the 1980s, were its enemies today. He said the Taliban are rooted in a genuine popular insurgency and are based on both sides of the Pak-Afghan border since Afghan refugee camps continue to exist in Pakistan. Lieven may be "familiar with the region," but he doesn't appear to be aware of some really basic things. One of those things is that the Taliban aren't the mujaheddin who fought the Soviets. That would be the Northern Alliance - the Pandjir Valley men who followed Masood, whiskey-guzzling Dostum, Ismail Khan, dour Rasool Sayyaf, Rabbani, and the others who painfully put together an alliance of fighting men across the north and west while the Pashtoons plotted and planned and turned on each other and made their holy men rich. Hekmatyar was in bed with the KGB before he tried to steal all the marbles in the Dog Eat Dog. The Taliban were mostly kids at the time - the war against the Soviets started almost 30 years ago - and Mullah Omar was maybe a minor commander if not cannon fodder kinda sorta toward the end. He was never one of the big turbans.
The Talibs took advantage of the anarchy that Hek unleashed to try and snatch the bone from the big dogs who'd earned it. They were backed by the ISI and the Pak religious parties, who tried to own and operate them. In power they were primitive and oppressive and they allied with the Arabs who attacked us. So trying to present things as us turning on our friends carries a distinct whiff of organic fertilizer.
While their residents are getting integrated in the Pakistani society, they retain their ties to their country of origin. He found it ironic that Afghanistan keeps asking Pakistan to do more to prevent fighters going across the border, a border that Kabul has never recognised as the international dividing line. He stressed that the present Taliban insurgency has deep roots in Pashtun history. Maybe Pashtun history, but Dari-speaking Afghanistan has usually been relatively civilized. In fact, that was the case up until the commies tried their coup in the mid-70s.
The Pashtuns have fought against invaders and against those they considered infidels or representatives of apostate governments. He said the Taliban are given shelter by fellow Pashtuns but that should not be taken to mean that it makes them Taliban or that they share the Taliban outlook or worldview. The Taliban worldview is rooted in Pakhtoonwallah. Ignorance is a virtue and they're not at all fond o' them Dari-speaking city slickers.
He likened the situation to the support given to the IRA by Irishmen who were not necessarily its supporters. Lieven said the West should understand that military action alone would not bring victory. That's the way you can tell it's an Interservices Public Relations press release. There is no possibility of victory, only negotiations with turbans. The Paks will be more than happy to act as go-betweens.
Military action has to be combined with development of the area and the uplift of the population. He said the West is trying to create an Afghan state that is inefficient, corrupt and an entity that is hated by the population since it does little for it. And there's an active Taliban movement to make sure that remains the case. Effect, meet cause. Cause, effect.
New ways have to be found to interact with the local population, an effort in which the Muslim clergy should be involved, he suggested. To make the clergy work, it has to be paid, he stressed.
New ways have to be found to interact with the local population, an effort in which the Muslim clergy should be involved, he suggested. To make the clergy work, it has to be paid, he stressed. Don't you just love the subtlety that goes into these efforts?
He also pointed out that while indirect rule of the tribal areas is not satisfactory, history shows that direct rule always failed. While Afghanistan is an important country in the war on terrorism, Pakistan is vital because of its size, composition and its nuclear capability. So we can just blow off Afghanistan, suck up to Pakistan, and let them have their Strategic Depth®.
He expressed fear that if Western efforts in Afghanistan fail to achieve results, the tendency will be to blame Pakistan and to press it to stage crackdowns on radical elements, something that will lead to unrest in Pakistan and widen the conflict. The consequences for the war on terrorism could only be disastrous.
This article starring:
Ambassador of Pakistan, Mahmud Ali Durrani
Anatol Lieven
anthropologist David B Edwards
Brig Johnny Torrence-Spence
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
thx Fred, I took down the good bits.
~~~~~
Note name "Lieven" has the word lie in it.
The West has taken sides in an ongoing civil war in Afghanistan, according to an area "expert"
no shiite Sherlock,
Come to think of it Yes something Did compel us to Discriminate against OLB/ and his Arabs, and his Talib buddies, was that too gauche of us to do Lieven?
Lieven found it ironic that those who were the Wests friends in Afghanistan the 1980s, were its enemies today
We find reading "experts" works from you Lieven to be painfully ironic; as in the irony of having chronic hemorrhoids.
He said the Taliban are rooted in a genuine popular insurgency and are based on both sides of the Pak-Afghan border since Afghan refugee camps continue to exist in Pakistan.
That's full blown Taqiyya BS, [paid or Lieven's converted like Ben], or he's a full blown idjiot.
A popular sport on both sides of the Pak-Afghan border is to watch how long someone will retain possession of their head after they criticizes the Talibs. [i made that up to make a point]
Lieven, He said the West is trying to create an Afghan state that is inefficient, corrupt and an entity that is hated by the population since it does little for it.
yep we trying like hell with our precious blood and treasure to make A-stan a failure. jeebus how can any one call themselves an "expert" and write such stinkin trash.
Lieven, To make the clergy work, it has to be paid, he stressed. He also pointed out that while indirect rule of the tribal areas is not satisfactory, history shows that direct rule always failed. [how rich that BS] While Afghanistan is an important country in the war on terrorism, Pakistan is vital because of its size, composition and its nuclear capability. He expressed fear that if Western efforts in Afghanistan fail to achieve results, the tendency will be to blame Pakistan and to press it to stage crackdowns on radical elements, something that will lead to unrest in Pakistan and widen the conflict. The consequences for the war on terrorism could only be disastrous.
**Perv & Co. must have called in a favor for this article.
conclusion: PERV AND THE ISI WANT MORE MONEY. So they can line their pockets again and pay off their Islamic proxies.
#3
From
Cappelli, Vanni. "Containing Pakistan: Engaging the Raja-Mandala in South-Central Asia."
Orbis 51 (Winter 2007): 55-70.
The strength of the Indian army in Kashmir limited the human toll of the ISIs operations there, but when Pakistan sought to fill the void that opened
in Afghanistan upon the fall of the communist regime, it became responsible for inter-Muslim bloodletting and destruction on a scale unseen in the region since 1971. Too often depicted in the media as simply an Afghan civil war, Rawalpindis forceful backing first of the Pashtun Islamist warlord Gulbaddin Hekmatyar and then of the Pashtun-based Taliban was essentially an act of international aggression. The successful conclusion of this effort with the
Talibans September 1996 entry into Kabul, which had been almost leveled in the fighting, provided Pakistan with a friendly regime there for the first time since independence. It was now free to concentrate on India with the confidence that comes with possessing WMD.
Posted by: John Frum ||
03/28/2007 6:28 Comments ||
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It must have been a very agreeable conference, with all in attendance stroking their beards in a reflective manner, and the tea divine. Bismillah.
#6
Lieven found it ironic that those who were the Wests friends in Afghanistan the 1980s, were its enemies today.
It has already been pointed out that this is nonsense but I'd like to ask, at what point did an act of betrayal against someone (I wouldn't say friend) that helped you turn into (a) the fault of those that were betrayed, aka we trained Bin Laden so it's blowback (b) Irony as if it was an accident?
A lot has been said about Islamic manners towards guests and I'd like to say in my opinion it's a lot of nonsense.
#7
Good - we've got some more names to add to the our "little list" of idiots to be bumped off once we win the war. I hope someone is keeping a complete inventory of all the idiots, so we can do it quickly. I'm sure Rosie and Nancy will make the list, somewhere near the top. Cindy Sh$$can should be there, also, along with the complete staff of a few newspapers around the world. We've allowed such idiots to have too much airtime in the past, and we're still paying for it.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/28/2007 13:14 Comments ||
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Grazie, signore. Now keep your journos on a shorter leash or GPS'em or something.
Premier Romano Prodi's government won a Senate vote Tuesday to keep Italy's troops in Afghanistan, despite increasing concerns over the worsening security situation in the country. The 180-2 vote - with 132 abstentions, which in the Senate count as ``no'' votes - gave final approval to a government decree that provides funding for all Italian missions abroad. The lower house of parliament approved it earlier this month. How about that. Prodi does have a testicle or two.
Italy has about 2,000 troops in Afghanistan, deployed between Kabul and Herat, far from the more restive south of the country. But a series of small incidents involving the Italians and heavy fighting elsewhere in the country are heightening concerns in Italy over the troops' security. Addressing those concerns, the government has asked military chiefs to assess security conditions on the ground and indicate whether the troops need heavier armaments to ensure their safety, Foreign Minister Massimo D'Alema told senators shortly before the vote. Communists and other hardline leftists in the coalition are opposed to the mission and want a troop withdrawal. But Prodi has resisted those calls, as well as NATO demands to beef up the contingent.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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Violence, red tape and poor access are jeopardising international relief operations in Sudan's war-torn Darfur region, United Nations humanitarian chief John Holmes said on Monday. "If we don't deal with those problems, [the] humanitarian effort could begin to unravel with catastrophic effects for the civilian population," he told a news conference.
Holmes, wrapping up his first visit to Sudan, drew up a long list of obstacles hindering what is considered to be the world's largest ongoing humanitarian operation. The Sudanese military blocked him from entering a camp for displaced people in Darfur on Saturday, in an incident he called symptomatic of the problems aid organisations face in the area.
According to the UN, at least 200 000 people have been killed and more than two million displaced in Darfur since the conflict erupted in February 2003. Some sources say the death toll is much higher. President Omar al-Bashir, who has consistently rejected a UN peacekeeping deployment in Darfur, is expected to meet UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday ahead of Wednesday's Arab summit in Riyadh. British diplomat Holmes, who succeeded Norway's Jan Egeland on March 1, heads on Tuesday to Chad and the Central African Republic, two countries which have suffered from a spill-over of the Darfur conflict.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
So what happened to the full steam ahead planning of the UN they were touting about on saving Darfur?
Posted by: Alaska Paul at Homer, Alaska ||
03/28/2007 1:38 Comments ||
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#2
With absolutely no snark intended, how do you distinguish 'collapse' in Dafur from business as usual?
Batna, 28 March (AKI) - An Algerian court has handed down a 20-year prison sentence in absentia to Abel Malik Drukdal, leader of al-Qaeda in North Africa - formerly the al-Qaeda linked Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GPSC) - and to 10 other operatives from the terror network. The court in the southwestern town of Batna also offered a 5,000 dollar bounty for information leading to the arrest of Drukdal, 37, who is also known as Abu Musab Abdel Wudud.
Now you just have top catch him. Or kill him. Or catch him and kill him
The court convicted Drukdal and the other ten 'al-Qaeda in North Africa' operatives of "violating national security and forming an armed group responsible for carrying out terror attacks and killings," according to a report carried by satellite Arabic TV network al-Arabiya'.
The GSPC's historic leader Hasan Hattab was earlier this month sentenced to death in absentia by an Algerian court, despite having in 2005 renounced the armed struggle following a government amnesty for Islamic militants.
This article starring:
ABEL MALIK DRUKDAL
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat
ABU MUSAB ABDEL WUDUD
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat
HASAN HATTAB
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat
Posted by: Steve ||
03/28/2007 08:23 ||
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Rabat, 28 March (AKI) - Prosecutors in Algeria have charged 24 people in connection with a suicide bombing in an Internet cafe Casablanca on 11 March which the bomber was killed and his alleged accomplice injured. According to investigators the suicide bomber Abdelfettah al-Raydi, prematurely detonated the explosives he was carrying strapped in a belt. The blast went off while al-Raydi was involved in an argument with owner of the cafe located in Casablanca's Sidi Mumin district. Al-Rayadi's allleged accomplice, Youssef Khoudri, who was injured in the blast, is among the 24 suspects, the Internet portal Moheet reported Wednesday.
All 24 suspects are currently in detention for "forming a crimininal gang with the intention to commit terrorist acts, to have threatened the security of the State and to have held illegal meetings," according to the charge sheet against them. Authorities believe that the group was planning attacks against Western ships moored at popular tourism spots such Casablanca, Agadir, Marakesh and Eassaouira.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/28/2007 08:17 ||
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The European Union adopted sanctions against North Korea on Tuesday, putting it in line with a UN Security Council resolution passed after the Stalinist state announced a nuclear test. The sanctions include a ban on the sale or export of all materials that could be used in North Koreas nuclear and ballistic missile programmes, or in the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction. The EU also froze the assets abroad of some North Korean officials and banned exports to the country of luxury goods like caviar, truffles, high-quality wines and perfumes, and pure bred horses.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
No caviar, truffles, high-quality wines and perfumes and pure bred horses! Oh, the humanity!
I expect Kimmie to give up his nuke program within days, if not hours.
Lawyers for an Australian who was the first terror suspect to plead guilty before military tribunals at Guantanamo Bay met in private with prosecutors Tuesday to formalize details of a confession expected to speed his return home. David Hicks, who was accused of supporting al-Qaida and the Taliban during the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001, entered the plea Monday in a surprise development seen as a bid to end his five-year imprisonment at the U.S. naval base in southeast Cuba. Couldn't be he did nuttin' wrong, he just copped a plea to get back on da street.
The United States has agreed to allow Hicks to serve any sentence in Australia, and the U.S. military said a conviction on his charge of providing material support for terrorism could allow him to return home by the end of the year. Hicks' father, Terry Hicks, told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio on Tuesday that he believed his son pleaded guilty as part of a bargain with prosecutors that would get him out of Guantanamo: "It's a way to get home, and he's told us he just wants to get home."
The guilty plea came at the opening session of a new military tribunal signed into law in October by President Bush after the Supreme Court struck down the previous system. Critics of the commissions said the plea reflected Hicks' despair over his prospects for justice from Guantanamo courts.
"He and his attorneys knew he could not receive a fair trial, so Hicks pleaded guilty," said Marine Lt. Col. Colby Vokey, the lawyer for Omar Khadr, a Canadian detainee who is expected to face charges before the commission.
Hicks, a 31-year-old Muslim convert, pleaded guilty to one charge of providing support to a terror organization involved in hostilities against the United States. But he denied a second allegation of supporting terrorism.
He allegedly attended terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and reported to an al-Qaida commander after the Sept. 11 attacks, but he was not accused of firing a shot against U.S. or coalition forces. He was captured in December 2001 and was one of the first men taken to Guantanamo a month later.
Hicks, who lives at a maximum-security facility at Guantanamo, has been transferred to a complex with special meeting rooms to make it easier to consult with his lawyers.
At a private conference Tuesday, the defense and prosecution were expected to discuss details of the guilty plea before presenting it to the military judge, Marine Corps Col. Ralph Kohlmann, said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman. Kohlmann was expected to make the determination this week. "Under commission rules the military judge must be satisfied that Hicks' guilty plea is voluntary and otherwise lawful," Whitman said. But whaddabout the ACLU? Ammnesty International?
Members of a military tribunal convened for Hicks' case are expected to travel to Guantanamo this week to approve any sentence. Defense attorneys said a gag order by the military judge prevented them from discussing details of the plea until a sentence is announced.
Hicks is the only detainee charged so far by the reconstituted tribunal system. The military says as many as 80 of the 385 men held at Guantanamo will likely face prosecution.
A challenge of the new system is pending before the Supreme Court. Lawyers for detainees have asked the high court to step in again and guarantee that the prisoners can challenge their confinement in U.S. courts. Yeah! We want the same rights as those we hope to kill!
Posted by: Bobby ||
03/28/2007 06:31 ||
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#1
If others think he wouldn't get a fair trial, there's no reason not to give him the maximum sentence. Let them decide whether they stand a better chance copping a plea or taking a chance on a fair trial. The bottom line is that they are guilty and should be shot.
#5
"He and his attorneys knew he could not receive a fair trial, so Hicks pleaded guilty," said Marine Lt. Col. Colby Vokey, the lawyer for Omar Khadr, a Canadian detainee who is expected to face charges before the commission.
Is it a prerequisite that all Marine JAGs have to be douchebags?
And...is your guy gonna cop?
Omar is accused of lobbing the hand grenade that killed Sergeant First Class Christopher Speer, a 28-year-old medic with the U.S. Special Forces.
"That wasn't a panicky teen-ager we encountered that day," Sergeant First Class Layne Morris of South Jordan, Utah, who lost his right eye in the ambush, told the Boston Globe last month. "That was a trained al-Qaida who wanted to make his last act on earth the killing of an American."
Speer left behind a wife and two children, ages 3 and 11 months. Just days before his murder, Speer had selflessly walked into a minefield to rescue two wounded Afghan children.
A police intelligence officer told the Madrid train bombing trial on Tuesday detectives suspected the attacks were the work of Islamic radicals within hours. The officer, from the Central Unit of Interior Information (UCII) which deals in intelligence, said on the day of the bombings 11 March 2004 officers had strong suspicions the atrocity had been committed by fundamentalists by 3pm.
Manuel García Rodríguez, a former police officer also told the trial he had not received any warning about the attacks in the weeks before from one of the suspects, Spaniard José Emilio Suárez Trashorras. Trashorras, who was a confidant of Rodriguez, is accused of supplying the explosives to the Islamic radicals. Trashorras is one of 29 people who are on trial for playing a variety of roles in the attacks which killed 191 people and left more than 1,800 injured.
Earlier, the intelligence officer, who did not want to be named, said no police officer had ever received any instruction to orientate the investigation in any particular way - a reference to claims politicians who believed the attack was carried out by the Basque separatist group ETA wanted the police to follow this line of inquiry. The then government of the Popular Party claimed the attacks were the work of ETA.
If I recall correctly, they claimed this for a minute and a half. Anyone with eyes could see it couldn't be an ETA op.
But voters in the general elections three days later believed this was a way to deflect from the unpopular support which the government had given to the US-led invasion of Iraq and which had made Spain a target for the bombers. The Popular Party government was voted out and the socialists won a shock election victory.
Meanwhile, Rodríguez told the court that during interview Trashorras had never spoken of any connection between Islamic radicals and ETA. Trashorras was a confidant of Rodriguez before and after the attacks. But the former police officer said he only began to suspect the former miner knew something about the bombings afterwards because he made allusions to them.
#2
Pleaaaaaaaaase. One thing who is very clear on the trial is that it looks more and more like the official version is a bunch of lies.
You find:
-The two leads who led the police to arrests of Maghrebians before the elections (thus changing their outcome) have been planted. Both had been in aress thoroughly searched, nothing been found and then they magically popping up in police stations several hours later
-The unexploded backpack whose cell phone led to the arrests was like the ones who detonated: cell phone not connected to bomb and it contained shrapnel when of the twelve others contained it. If we are to believe the official version: the object popped up at 2am in a police station when police officers inventoried the evidence collected in one of the trains. Problem is that the bomb disposal experts had inspected every object twice and found nothing. Explanation from the chief of the bomb disposdal team: someone had picked up the backpack before the bomb experts arrival. Let's imagine this: you are in a place where several bombs have exploded, where every object is a potentiaml booby trap and you go around picking them before they have been inspected. Yeah right
-No analysis of the explosives in the trains was done so we are to suppose it was Goma2-ECO because of what was in the backpack. It only happenned a few weeks ago and was ordered by the court (ie not during the investigation). Guess what? The evidence had been washed with water and acetone. Howebver it had been determined (from dust from an extinctor) that there were components who are not part of GOMA2-ECO. And that is the explosive that one of the suspects (also a police informer) was trafficking with. Also the chief for Madrid of trhe bomb disposal teams has reiterated that the explosive had cut cleanly through the wagons like military-grade explosives do (middle grade explosives like Goma-2 let barbs). I admit the later is not a strong evidence. But if the people atrrested had Goma2 and what exploded was not Goma2 then where it is the connection?
-The chip in the cellphone of the backpack allowed the police to arrest the first suspects thanks to information from the phone company. execept that the information came hours later.
Now let's imagine all the possibilities there are few of them:
First hypothesis: It was an islmic bombing who didn't aim to regime change. It was just about hate against Spain for the Reconquista and about date being 30 months from 9/11. The investigation hae been sincere.
This doesn't hold water. We have all these leads popping up suddenly in places where an hour before there had been nothing, we habve these analysis of explosives who were not made or were falsified (the cupula of the Scientific Police unit has been indicted for it). But we also have the attitude of the suspects: suicide bombers had sense, not suiciding and trying to evade the police had sense. Sowing evidence everywehre like they did (the chip from the phone cell in the backpack came from the shop of a suspect) and then remaining in place like sitting ducks does not make sense.
2d Hypothesis: It was an islamist bombing. Did not aim tro regime change but then then investgation was falsified in order to get arrests before elections (even of innocents), manipulate public opinion and change their outcome.
I cannot dismiss this possibility. But tampering with elections this way has a name: high treason. Also in this case the "suicides" at Leganes and the death of a GEO (Spanish for SWATT ) appear as a conspiracy to keep the official version running
So we also have murder.
Third possibility: Islamists aimed to regime change. Investigation was sincere.
Then it is logic for authors to sow clues because they need to get arrested before the elections. Without these arrests Zapatero would have been defeated. Except that we still have backpacks popping whetre there was nothing, empty vans who suddenly fill with explosives and coranic tapes, falsified analysis of explosives so I cannot believe the investigation was sincere.
Aslo what chhnged the outcome of elections was not the bombings but the conjunction of three factors: bombings, opportunately timed arrests, an intense agit-prop campaign launched by the all powerful MSM group Prisa (linked to the socialists) with "spontaneous" assaults to the sieges of the Popular Party and lies fropm Prisa about suicide bombers having been found. So for the plan working it was not enough for then islamist to let themselves arrested, they also had to assumme that the socialists and Prisa would do the rest in the agitprop area. They would also had to account that police would leak informations to the press in just the right moment instead of sending it to governemnt and keeping their mouths shut. It also required precise timing: arrests where made the day before the elections ie a day where by law Government and its Party could not makle declarations to counter the lies of Prisa.
Fourth: Islamists aimed at regime change. Investigation was falsified but socialist did not know in advance about the bombings.
Agsin we find that islamists had to assume that socialists and Prisa would do the rest. They also had to know that high ranked cops in strategic positions were not loyal to government and the law but would lie and cheat in order to benefit the socialist party. Agsin we find that in this case Zapatero is guilty of treason.
Fifth hypothesis: It was ETA or ETA in collaboration with islamists. Clues are planted towards Maghrebians.
Even if socialist were mere dupes (ie no contacts before or after) it would cause them a considerable political damage since Spanish public had been duped at elections. In this case ETA would have been able to blackamail
Zapatero. Coincidence: Zapatero hgas made huge concessions to ETA. Coincidence 2: Yesterday, an ETA's mouthpiece threatened the government to disclose the contents of apact between ETA and governement. Coincidence three: A few weeks ago Armando Otegui ETA's unofficial mouthpiece told: "The attempt to destroy ETA failed and resulted in 191 deaths". Number of deaths in teh bombings was 191. Coindidence: The same day and the same hour two cars loaded with explosives found themselves at the same place within minutes one of the other: one from ETA who was intercepted by the Guardia Civil and one of the islamist who wasn't.
Sixth hypothsis: Socialists knew in advance.
"When you have eliminated all what is impossible then all what reamins is the improbable". Sherlock Holmes. The official suspects were under police surveillance, their phones tapped and suddenlythree days before the bombings all surveillance was lifterd. Also some diguital media report on pages dated February 2004 a sudden gust of optimism bretween high ranking socialists and one of them telling "We have an electoral atom bomb who will shift the result". Notice that this is digital media so there is no way to tell if this page dated in February 2004 has not been written after the bombings.
#3
After a quick scroll past that excursis I want to express my complete indifference to the who-knew-what-when school of thinking. The correct course of action should have been obvious since the Moorish princeling was evicted in 1492. Hopefully it will not take centuries to relearn the lesson of Spanish retreat and surrender.
#4
I already knew you are a racist, now I know without doubt you are a fool.
I will tel you why authorship of Madrid bombings matters.
It matters because in a war of terrorism the mùorale and politic factor is much more important than the actual battlefield and Zapatero hadnled a major moral and politioc victory when he withdrew the Spanish troops from Irak. You can bet that it gave a boost to Al Quaida and its recruitment (see, the infidels are already retiring")..
It matters because jihadists began to think they could topple governemnts with just a few bombs in the home countries. One day in Madrid, another day in... London.
It matters because te main ennemy in the WOT is not Al Quaida but the chic multi-cultileft. Now imagine the blow for it not only in Spaijn but everywhere if people learned that this chicleft has as a minimum falsified the investigation in order to win the elections or perhaps done even worse. Wouldn't do much good to anyone taken in photo with Zapatero.
How often have I said to you that when you heve eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
Sherlock Holmes in "The Sign of Four" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1890
I'm obliged to share the next quote which I stumbled upon searching for the one above:
These are bagpipes. I understand the inventor of the bagpipes was inspired when he saw a man carrying an indignant, asthmatic pig under his arm. Unfortunately, the man-made sound never equalled the purity of the sound achieved by the pig.
Alfred Hitchcock
#6
Most certainly, the threat is primarily domestic - for all western countries. The multi-culti-Tranzi-Stalinist-PC-Left IS the one allied threat that can bring them down, including the US, from within. No one can reasonably make a case for defeating the US militarily, for example, externally, but the writing is plainly on the wall for our slow-bleed death from within. The Return of the Dimmicrats and their surreal Agenda of Powermongering is a rather obvious sign.
This comment probably belongs on the thread where the ACLU is mentioned, but JFM's declaration regards these vermin and, indirectly, the entire array who support them (MSM, UN, etc) elicited it here. Thanks JFM - you're absolutely correct about where the real threat emanates.
Truth was the first victim in this ideological deathmatch. Islam is an ugly stain on man, but is only a showy irritating rash in the end. Far more dangerous to our way of life is that, thanks to the cretins mentioned above, trust, confidence, and faith followed close on the heels of truth.
Our moonbats and self-hating tools are not as proficient as the Paleo variety of institutional hate, for example, but it will be a very very long time before we recover some measure of peace... assuming the assholes are stopped and we survive.
Where oh where to begin... ACLU? So many biotches, so little time.
#7
After a quick scroll past that excursis I want to express my complete indifference to the who-knew-what-when school of thinking. The correct course of action should have been obvious since the Moorish princeling was evicted in 1492.
So speaketh the leading ranker of the 101st Keyboard Regiment a.k.a. the Princess Patters...
Surprised but not caught. Too many 'le doughnuts' I guess...
Two suspected ETA terrorists were surprised while carrying out target practice in France, police said on Tuesday. The incident took place in a wood in Loir-et-Cher, south of Paris.
Forest rangers heard gunfire and initially thought they were hunters who were breaking local regulations. But when they found an abandoned car full of ammunition, they realised it was something more sinister. In fact it was a stolen car fitted with false number plates.
However, police failed to find the ETA suspects. They appear to have been practising with automatic pistols. A security source said it appeared ETA had carried on stealing cars. In the past year, they had been linked to the theft of 13 vehicles. In 2006, they stole a record 71 cars.
#1
In fact French police has been fighting ETA much màore actively than the Spoanish one (headed by Zapatero, who probably owes them his victory).
About the article: there is not such thing as rangers in France. These were more probably garde-champetres (village police officers who are supposed to deal with drunkards or property trespassers with serious crime, that is the job of gendarmes). I doubt theuir vegicles have radios meaning that by the time they reported the ETA guys were 30 miles from there.
#2
They appear to have been practising with automatic pistols.
IIRC, the discovery (not often in the act) of "target practice" in french forests is not that unusual, be it from terrs or run-of-the-mill gangsters; I remember police finding a car carcass which had been used repeatedly for RPG practice, for example, a couple of years ago I think.
Also, JFM is quite right, "rangers" would be garde-champêtres, that is non LE types, but local village employees.
Riot police firing tear gas and brandishing batons clashed Tuesday with bands of youths who shattered windows and looted shops at a major Paris train station, officials said. Nine people were arrested. Officials said about 100 people were involved in the melee at Gare du Nord, one of Paris' most important transport hubs. Officers and police dogs fired tear gas and charged at groups of marauding youths, some of them wearing hoods and swinging metal bars. The youths responded by throwing trash cans and other objects at the officers. A group of youths smashed the windows of a sporting goods store and looted boxes of shoes. Others attacked automatic drink dispensers and set garbage cans on fire.
The violence did not appear directly related to France's presidential election less than a month away, but it highlighted the social and economic tensions that the country's new leader will inherit when he or she takes power in May. The train lines from Gare du Nord radiate out to the same suburbs north of Paris where three weeks of rioting erupted in 2005. That violence was born of pent-up anger - especially among youths of Arab and African origin - over years of high unemployment and racial inequalities.
Youths at the station said Tuesday's clashes started when police manhandled a young person of North African origin. Some claimed that the youth's arm was broken in the confrontation. Commuter Cyril Zidou, a 24-year-old electrician, said he was coming home from the gym ``when I just got gassed.'' One woman was evacuated by paramedics for inhalation of tear gas. Zidou said the violence had echoes of the riots in 2005. ``They never finished,'' he said. ``It slowed down a bit, but it was never over.'' Another commuter, Guy Elkoun, said: ``There's always a feeling of insecurity in this train station ... I knew this could happen someday.''
Officials from Paris' RATP public transport authority said the violence started after a man without a Metro ticket punched two kufrs inspectors during a routine ticket check. Youths also attacked the inspectors and later turned on police patrolling the station, officials said. ``The inspectors were hit with projectiles, as were the officers who came to assist them,'' said Luc Poignant, an official for the Force Ouvriere police union. The clashes forced the closure of the station's subway and commuter lines for several hours. The station's long-distance rail hub and Eurostar terminal, which is attached to the subway station, remained open throughout the melee.
Gare du Nore, the next no-go district in the Greater Arabian Co-Prosperity Sphere.
#5
Coverage is interesting. This AP story has nothing on the origin of the yoots or the residents of the neighborhood, but does say:
The clashes began in midafternoon, and forced the closure of the station's subway and commuter lines for several hours. The station's long-distance rail hub and Eurostar terminal, which is attached to the subway station, remained open throughout.
They started after a man without a Metro ticket punched two inspectors during a routine ticket check, said officials from Paris' RATP public transport authority. Youths also attacked the inspectors and later turned on police patrolling the station, officials said.
"The inspectors were hit with projectiles, as were the officers who came to assist them," said Luc Poignant, an official for the Force Ouvriere police union.
A standoff ensued between officers and some 100 youths.
#6
Apparently, from what I've just read in blogs, the Youth who attacked the two controllers was an illegal migrant, therefore most likely an african, north or subsaharan... which explains why the Youths rioted in solidarity like that, they wouldn't have done it for, say, a polish or an eastern european.
Btw, this is to be taken in context of the presidential run (about one more month to go); for instance, one of the last tactical move by the then interior minister Sarko was to have the police reduce ID checks and patrolling in the 'hoods, so there would be less probability of a clash and of the ensuing bad publicity (Sarko's security legacy is as bad as the socialists').
Also, there's a controversy about his position on national identity (not ID papers, but actual identity), with the usual suspects reacting after a clash between protesters (leftists, illegals) and riot police during an arrest in front of a school, with all the usual WWII undertones (and the socialist candidate saying she will regularize all the parents of illegal children studying in France).
So, even if Sarko is a pure hype-driven candidate, he's still (and increasingly) demonized as a quasi-fascist and a rightwinger, that's almost funny.
#7
Oh, and the far left (and the socialists, too, in veiled terms) prophetize/threaten a renewal of the 2005 riots, but expanded in scope, if Sarko is elected.
#12
Shoot the sons of whores down in the streets, identify the bodies, and deport the entire family of each dead bastard.
Mark my words, it will eventually come to that, not only in France, but throughout Europe. There's a bloodbath coming, and I hate to think of its severity, or the consequences. Islam just doesn't know when to stop.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/28/2007 13:34 Comments ||
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#13
Even if shooting rioters were politically feasible in France, that would not be a solution to their problem.
Millions, close to 10%, of the population, do not work, are subsidized by the Welfare State, and are influenced by those who want to turn France into a fully Moslem slum. Shooting a few criminals will not turn that tide.
#14
I've been through this station many times, I can't imagine being gassed in the main terminal, worse the subway portions. This must have been a mess.
VICTORIA - In the Bible, Samson is a hero who used his superhuman strength to do God's will by pulling down pillars in a Philistine temple, killing thousands and himself in an act of vengeance. But in what's sure to be a controversial interpretation of the story, a Victoria choir will next month present Samson as a suicide bomber.
How very "progressive" of them
Drudge yesterday had a link to the video of a lecture at AEI on the subject of "Why Liberals Act That Way." We might even have had a link to it here. The speaker's premise was that Liberals (capital L) train themselves not to discriminate, regarding discrimination as a Bad Thing. I guess the logic would be that if racial discrimination is wrong then every other kind of discrimination is, too. This leads to the development over time of a convoluted thought process that will allow the "thinker" to consistently avoid being caught on the side of right or good.
Simon Capet, music director of the Victoria Philharmonic Choir, says he wanted to update Handel's Samson oratorio to be relevant to today's audiences by drawing comparisons to ongoing conflicts in the Middle East.
Obviously it couldn't be relevant to today's audiences by presenting a tale of amour, betrayal, degradation and finally the utter smiting of one's enemies. To do so would involve taking a position on which side was right in the dispute between the Israelites and the Philistines 3000 years ago and, really, we couldn't do that.
"We didn't want to just present the work as a simple morality tale," says Mr. Capet.
"That would be entirely too simple. And moral."
"There is a social and political commentary here that's important."
Because without social and political commentary, it would only be music.
While the music will not change, the setting of the oratorio will be 1946 Jerusalem.
Not, of course, 2004 Jerusalem.
Mr. Capet says he chose the period to draw comparisons to the bombing of the British headquarters at the King David Hotel by the militant Zionist group Irgun in that year. Menachem Begin, who ordered the attack, would later become Israel's prime minister and win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Because having a islamic suicide bomber would be terribly offensive. Not to mention dangerous
Mr. Capet says presenting Samson as a terrorist is not meant to offend anyone or point the finger at one group, but to challenge our notions of what a terrorist is.
"Is there any difference between pulling down a pillar or blowing a bomb?" asks Mr. Capet.
Yes.
"Samson killed thousands of people. To show him in the traditional mythological sense does a disservice," Mr. Capet says.
I doubt the Philistines fit thousands of people into the temple/feasting hall. And showing him in the traditional "mythological" sense hasn't been perceived as doing a disservice to anyone (with the possible exception of the Philistines) for the past two or three thousand years.
The choir would not be the first to drawing comparisons between Samson and terrorism. "There's a large focus on this right now, with Israel being presented as the Samson figure," says Andrew Rippin, dean of humanities at the University of Victoria and a specialist in Islamic studies. American journalist Seymour Hersh coined the term "the Samson option" in his book about Israel's development of a nuclear arsenal.
It's that outmoded good-evil thing, y'see. They only look different. Probe beneath the surface and you'll find they're not really that different. Except for the smell.
In her book, Terror and Civilization: Christianity, Politics and the Western Psyche, she argues that terrorism is a biblical problem. "The concept of a collective guilt is a flawed morality," she says.
"So if it's flawed, you might as well chuck it. It's better to go through life with no morality at all than with a flawed morality."
"The idea that 'We're on the side of God and everyone else is evil' has and always will be disastrous."
It assumes the existence of evil, y'see, and to that particular kind of mentality there is no such thing. Everything is shades of gray, and since they're all gray the distinctions among shades can be discarded. Good and evil are relative things, that can be used or discarded as we please. The world becomes remade in the John Lennon image, with no God, no country, "nothing to kill or die for," nothing more important than the solipsist self.
Ms. Drury says she thinks the choir's modern interpretation of Samson -- scheduled to run April 5, 7 and 8--is heroic.
"Not that you should take that description literally. I mean, it's not like they're going to defend right or something."
But local Rabbi Itzchak Marmorstein says comparing Samson and the Irgun bombing will offend Jews and Israelis.
That doesn't matter, of course.
"It's an inappropriate comparison that promotes a shallow understanding of history," says Rabbi Marmorstein. "Israelis never supported Irgun or that kind of terrorism. They weren't heroes ... and Begin went into politics legitimately decades later. He wasn't some crazy terrorist."
One man who is already uneasy about the performance is Samson himself, played by Vancouver Island tenor Ken Lavigne. "I'm really struggling with this," says Mr. Lavigne, 33. "I can't help but feel that a number of people will not enjoy this rejigging of a biblical hero."
Ya think?
Why should the audience's feelings or opinions be taken into account? Since we're non-discriminatory in our outlook, their opinions are no more important than those of the people who don't go to the performance.
Mr. Lavigne says he has warmed up to the idea of putting on an Irgun uniform and wearing a bomb-belt to sing the emotionally charged part since discussing it with Mr. Capet. "Simon wants to get people talking about music and its relevance today," Mr. Lavigne says.
And what's more relevant than a singer in a boom belt?
"In the end I've had to accept that whoever I thought Samson was, what he committed was an act of mass murder."
This article starring:
Andrew Rippin, dean of humanities at the University of Victoria
Menachem Begin
MOHAMED ATTA
al-Qaeda
Rabbi Itzchak Marmorstein
Seymour Hersh
Shadia Drury, a philosophy professor
Posted by: Steve ||
03/28/2007 09:25 ||
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#3
Mr. Capet says presenting Samson as a terrorist is not meant to offend anyone
What a fuktard in the most complete liberal "let's pretend" vein. These are the exact same boneless twits that would shudder at the thought of even looking at a Muhammad cartoon.
#6
Huh. As I recall, Samson was betrayed, captured, blinded, enslaved, and then brought to the temple for ritual humiliation. And then he pulled it down. He didn't walk into the temple dressed as a worshipper and pull it down when no one was looking.
Wikipedia has the Samson story. Check especially the part about Samson's wedding to a Philistine woman. Sounds like a typical Palestinian affair. (Although Wikipedia also says the Philistines were Greeks.)
#9
it will be edgy when they take on Islam. Until then it is just another bunch of wanna-be's misbehaving because that is the only way they can get attention. How tiresome.
It is a weird quirk in our culture that zero talent and zero skill can pretend to be "art" as long as it steps outside the bounds of decency or taste.
I can vomit on the sidewalk and call it art, but it still stinks.
"Mr. Capet says presenting Samson as a terrorist is not meant to offend anyone or point the finger at one group"
Yeah, uh huh... but after hearing for the last few decades that it DOES NOT matter whether you INTEND to offend, I really don't care what Mr. Capet has to say about it. I'm offended, and I demand reparations! That, and the Victoria Philharmonic Choir get rid of their mascot.
Or something like that. (I'm not really good at this yet; maybe I can get a grant in Victim Studies to get better!)
#15
But in what's sure to be a controversial interpretation of the story, a Victoria choir will next month present Samson as a suicide bomber.
I trust that when they say, "controversial interpretation", they really mean "perversion".
This is the usual moral equivalency bullshit. Actually, this goes beyond the typical bovine fecal matter to an illegitimate argumentive method called, "tu quoque". It is a form of argumentum ad hominem which seeks to justify wrongdoing by assigning similar conduct to the accuser.
Portraying Sampson as a vest bomber merely seeks to ameliorate the immense and horrific stigma rightfully borne by Palestinians for their use of this heinous practice. There is no other possible significance to attach to this deplorable moral prestidigitation. To cast this sort of rubbish in its best possible light, I'll quote Edith Wharton:
Another unsettling element in modern art is that common symptom of immaturity, the dread of doing what has been done before.
Edith Warton
At best, this is merely an attempt to be different for difference's sake. At worst, this is a scurrilous effort at minimizing or justifying the criminally despicable practices of Palestinian terrorism.
"We didn't want to just present the work as a simple morality tale," says Mr. Capet.
Perish the thought that a morality tale should actually convey the precise moral it was intended to. That would be "old school" and we can all be sure that Capet wants no part of such outdated notions as integrity, ethics or intellectual honesty.
#16
I suppose it is generally thought that that pulling down the pillars was divinely approved. However, that is in no way a universal opinion. There are numerous opinions on Samson. The phrase, "the Lord was with him" or "the spirit of the Lord was with him" does not appear nor anything like it at the moment of the pull down. Furthermore the phrase "the Land had peace for... years" doesn't appear at the end of the Samson cycle. Finally the Samson cycle is followed by several chapters showing the run up to the Benjamite civil war which was certainly a bad event.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Congressional Democrats are showing no signs of backing down on their rebuke of the Iraq war, insisting President Bush will have to accept some sort of legislative timetable in exchange for the billions of dollars needed to fund the war.
"We would hope that the president understands how serious we are," said Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., after the Senate voted to uphold a proposal in a war spending bill calling for the troop withdrawal.
As the Senate resumes debate on the $122 billion bill Wednesday, President Bush was expected to address the legislation in a speech at the National Cattlemen's Beef Association meeting in Washington.
Deputy press secretary Dana Perino said Bush would use the speech as an opportunity to address the war on terror and the need to let the new Iraq security plan get fully under way.
"The president will say it is dangerous to our soldiers on the ground to let Washington politics delay this funding," Perino said. But Reid and other Democrats say they won't back down.
"Rather than making all the threats that he has, let's work with him and see if he can give us some ideas how we can satisfy the wishes of a majority of the Senate, the majority of the House and move forward," Reid said.
The bill finances operations in Iraq and Afghanistan but requires Bush begin bringing home some combat troops right away with a nonbinding goal of ending combat missions as of March 31, 2008.
The House last week passed a similar bill by a 218-212 vote. That bill orders combat troops out by Aug. 31, 2008 _ guaranteeing the final spending measure negotiated with the Senate will include some sort of timetable on the war.
Senate Republicans tried Tuesday to strip out the withdrawal language but failed in a 50-48 vote. One Democrat _ Sen. Mark Pryor of Arkansas _ sided with Republicans in opposition to the public deadline, contending such a measure would broadcast U.S. war plans to the enemies. "Congress should not define how long our enemy has to hang on to win," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.
Sen. Chuck Hagel delivered the deciding vote by joining anti-war Republican Gordon Smith of Oregon in breaking ranks and voting with Democrats to put a nonbinding end date on the war.
"We have misunderstood, misread, misplanned and mismanaged our honorable intentions in Iraq with an arrogant self-delusion reminiscent of Vietnam," Hagel, R-Neb. But there is no way to understand, read, plan or manage this thing except by running away, eh Chuck?
Pryor said he supports setting a deadline for U.S. involvement in Iraq, but only so long as such a date remains classified. Pryor compares the 2008 date set by his Democratic colleagues akin to announcing to the Germans plans for the U.S. invasion of France in World War II.
But ultimately, Pryor said, he will vote in favor of the bill. "At the end of the day, the end of the process, I'm going to support the troops, the way I would want to be 'supported', if I actually had to fight for something" he said.
"This is not one battle; it's a long-term campaign," Schumer, D-N.Y., told reporters.
The vote leaves hanging a small group of Republicans frustrated by the war and wanting to go on record as such but opposed to setting a timetable.
In recent months, GOP Sens. Susan Collins of Maine, John Warner of Virginia, Norm Coleman of Minnesota and Olympia Snowe of Maine wanted legislation expressing opposition to Bush's war strategy and setting goals for the Iraqi government to meet in exchange for continued U.S. support.
But each said they opposed setting a firm timetable on the war and sided with their Republican colleagues.
"My vote against this rapid withdrawal does not mean that I support an open-ended commitment of U.S. troops to Iraq," Collins said in a statement issued after the vote.
If Bush's strategy in Iraq does not show "significant results" by fall, "then Congress should consider all options including a redefinition of our mission and a gradual but significant withdrawal of our troops next year." They know W will veto, so it's just sending a message to the al Qaeda.
Posted by: Bobby ||
03/28/2007 06:18 ||
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#1
Bush may have to accept the forced withdrawal - if he vetoes the timetable bill he still has to get funding appropriation. They can repeat the cycle of modifications of this bill until there is no more money elsewhere in the Defense budget to re-direct to supporting the war. That would probably fall about the same time as the withdrawal timetable, but at great cost to the rest of our national defense system.
If we are going to withdraw, on a schedule rather than a mission, as it seems to me will be the case, then I think that withdrawal should begin today. There is no point sacrificing more good lives when you have already conceded defeat.
The American people, through their elected representatives, have effectively told the President to surrender. I don't see how he can, in good conscience, surrender, nor do I see a means by which he can ignore Congress.
This bill acts like a Parliamentary 'vote of no confidence' which would trigger formation of a new government. Our system has no such provision, though the resignation of both Bush and Chaney would transfer the Executive branch to Pelosi, which would amount to the same thing. It would be totally without precedent, but I am starting to think it is the most honorable path forward.
#2
"We would hope that the president understands how serious we are," said Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., after the Senate voted to uphold a proposal in a war spending bill calling for the troop withdrawal.
Well, Harry, if Dubya doesn't understand you you can at least take comfort in the fact that the enemy understands you very, VERY well.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
03/28/2007 8:09 Comments ||
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#3
Veto--and start locking Dems up in maximum security prisons. CW-II: it may be closer than we think.
Posted by: Mac ||
03/28/2007 8:41 Comments ||
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#4
You are a fool Glenmore. It's never been about honor or right for the Demogogs. It's been about Power. Nothing less will they tolerate. Nothing less will they ever be satisfied with. That's why they're sympathetic to the Islamics and Stalinist, because they truly believe that all others must submit to them to be ruled. If they believed for an instant that they could get away with it, they'd suspend the Republic to establish their rule. They do everything short of outright corrupting the electoral process and undermining the proper rule of government to allow a semblance of legitimacy. In the end you have to play their game as dirty and uncompromising as they do, whether Donks, Islamists, or Stalinists. Nothing is going to satisfy them except your submission which appears they're achieving.
#5
OK, Procipius, how is Bush going to pay for the soldiers in Iraq? You are correct, it IS all about power for the Dems, but they GOT it last fall. When the Repubs could not even hold their owns Senators from the HEART of the Heartland (Nelson & (spit) Hagel) how can they be said to retain any power at all? The majority of the American people either agree with the Dems or (mostly) just don't care. So the informed, intelligent minority (including you) are stuck without a legal way to do what needs to be done. Is it time to employ the Second Amendment in the way it was intended, and do the Jeffersonian watering of the tree of liberty? No, not yet. There's not a rallying cause. Maybe there never will be, thanks to the wonderful education system to which we have subjected our children for the past 40 years or more.
3. It will be debated ad nauseum. The Republicans will attempt to attach riders, funding cuts for pet Democrat projects, and other poison pills. This will take time.
4. The Democrats will win. The Senate will have its own bill, to which the Republicans will attempt to attach riders, funding cuts for pet Democrat projects, and other poison pills. This will take time.
5. The Democrats will win, and the House and Senate will go into talks on coordinating their bills.
6. By this time it will be Memorial Day, or even later. DC is hot and sticky in the summer. The smart legislator heads for the beach or the mountains around this time. The Democrats will throw up their hands, say that W is avoiding the willofthepeople, and pass a continuing resolution.
7. The whole circus will begin anew after Labor Day, barring an invasion of Iran, which will reset the game completely.
Delay is the Republicans' friend, and if they have any smarts at all they will use for all they're worth.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
03/28/2007 10:20 Comments ||
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#8
Normally Id be content to have simply called Hagel an idiot after casting his vote until I watched him exit the well of the Senate stage-left rather then past members of his own party. Seems to me a person voting on principle, contrary to the majority of ones party, would have the courage to hold his head up. His vote for an arbitrary surrender date and his body language afterwards indicates he not just an idiot but also a coward and a whore.
The Surge is working, Iran is teetering on the edge of collapse, the EU supports Blair on the British hostage thingy, Castro's as-good-as-dead, and Kimmie's not far behind! A month from now, after the Anna Nicole Smith issue fades away, the public will have a different opinion.
Cheer up!
[removes rose-colored glasses]
Posted by: Bobby ||
03/28/2007 10:22 Comments ||
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#10
All that is needed is the generous application of non-peaceful means against the Left and their lackeys...the press. I've seen it coming for a long time. The sooner the better.
The pace of the slide into Socialism is accelerating, one day it will go over the edge in the blink of an eye, that's how these things happen. Waiting for the "Right Time" is a fools game, there is never a right time. In fact, it may be too late already. I'm in my 50's, and I have watched in horror for the last 35+ years as the Left has relentlessly advanced their agenda.
They have very artfully employed gradualism to get the job done while most of the country has watched TV. It is time to turn the TV off, get organized and start hunting these bastards.
#11
Chiper, what you are advocating is legally treason. Starting down that path requires TOTAL commitment, and of a critical mass of the population. Ain't happening without a triggering event. This is not it.
#12
Guys, we have been down this route before. Essentially what will happen is the recapitalization of the military will be put on hold. Every dollar in the procurement and R&D accounts that is not already on contract will be diverted to the O&M accounts. Every dollar in the O&M accounts that is not actively supporting troops in the field will be diverted to do so. Sucks to be in the defense business right now, but it goes with the territory. The Democratic "majority" is smaller than the one previously held by the Republicans. The Dems know full well how they sabotaged that majority. Look for trench warfare in Congress with all eyes focussed on next February's primaries. Any mandate the Democrats claim to have is nullified by their overweening arrogance and their overarching greed. A naked lust for power and the trappings thereof is not a platform from which to govern a nation of laws.
#15
Gee, Glenmore, I still remember in the 70s being told not to expect our pay because the Donk controlled Congress couldn't get around to passing the regular bill. Then we went month to month temp funding. Then they just authorized the previous year's spending level. And this was during peacetime. We went without as funding was prioritized to keep everything together.
Like I said they need to play as dirty as the Donks. Instead of building a treasury and hording it, maybe all those Trunks should use the electioneering money now and start broadcasting, advertising, and spamming the old fashion mail with stories of how the Donks are killing our troops, how they betray the valiant efforts of the boys at the front. However, the Trunks are so enamored with their gold they won't even make the effort now to hammer back big time, even though it will have far more lasting effect now than 90 days before Nov 08.
#16
So, say, Chuck, you will do all you can to recreate Vietnam, ha?
Posted by: Captain America ||
03/28/2007 12:18 Comments ||
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#17
The Dems' strategy is clear. They are in the position of defeating the President AND creating defeat in the WoT for the US by their slim majority. They will introduce rat poison pill legislation and the President can only veto, a Hobbessian choice for the President. The dems are willing to undermine the defense of this nation in order to destroy the President.
Yes, we are in a Surge, that just may work. But we are in a race against time with the traitors in Capitol Hill.
The President MUST veto the legislation, but he needs to do it on Prime time, and explain to the nation what it means and what the dems are trying to do. This is gonna be difficult with the MSM, but the last hope is to communicate with the public.
This means that every member of congress that disagrees with the dems traitorous actions must communicate with their districts, and that includes local news, radio, and TV stations. Hell, even the Daily workers rags back home.
We are in the beginnings of a civil war in this country. It is being fought right now in the media. In order to save the country, we have to do our best to use the institutions that our Fonders gave us to draw out this sickness,and to rat out and expose the traitors for what they are.
Posted by: Alaska Paul at Homer, Alaska ||
03/28/2007 12:43 Comments ||
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#18
Bush should escalate. He should suspend habeas corpus (his right under the Constitution), declare the Democrats' behavior as treasonous (attempting to override his Constitutional authority as Commander in Chief), and slap 'em all in jail "for the duration". He won't, but he should. I'd bet there are strong legal grounds for doing so.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/28/2007 13:41 Comments ||
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#19
The argument that the President should give up his veto power and surrender to Congress is a total rejection of the US form of government.
The Republic is better off having conflict between the branches of government -- this is what the Founding Fathers understood and gave us.
If a scenario of defense starvation does unfold, the responsibility will be squarely on the shoulders of the legislative branch, now dominated by Democrats. The sooner this happens, the better. Let them abuse legislative power and lose their majority.
The reason Executive Power is separate from and not subjugate to Legislative Power is that tyranny is the only alternative. Go read John Locke and The Federalist Papers.
#20
I know I'll get sink-trapped for this, but it HAS to be said. There will come a time in the not too distant future where we will have to start killing those that wish to destroy our country, or perish as a free, independent nation. Many of those who wish to destroy us are elected officials, members of the media, and many of the so-called "nongovernment organizations". NOT discussing that won't change the fact that it WILL happen, and within my lifetime. Ok, Mods, do your stuff.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/28/2007 13:46 Comments ||
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#21
OK, I'll do my stuff.
I agree with every word you've said, OP: I myself have almost completely run out of any hope that the menace posed by the Left-- both directly, through their deliberate ruiniation of our society and indirectly, through their interference in the battle against Islamic totalitarianism-- can be dealt with non-violently. And yes, it has to be discussed. I sure have, probably more than Fred and some of the other mods are comfortable with.
But there is a line drawn there, one that we can't cross; not on Fred's website, anyway. And right on the other side of that line is "The time has come!! Let's grab our guns and start killing liberals!!"
That's where we can't go. Not on Rantburg.
And I'm not saying I like it; I'm saying that's the policy we've been given.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
03/28/2007 14:01 Comments ||
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#22
There is nothing wrong in discussing what self-defense and saving the republic may require in the future, or the belief that the need for such action is approaching due to treasonous, tyrannical behaviour on the part of certain political and intellectual circles.
That's what the Sons of Liberty did 230+ years ago. Look where pledging their life, fortune, and sacred honor got them.
What would be wrong would be blanket calls to murder X, Y or Z (unless they're foreign tyrants who wage war against us). As long as we live under the rule of law, as long as we have free speech and a republican form of government, rebellion is not justified. Being ready for rebellion should it be necessary is a different thing. Discussing why one ought to be ready, and what the decent limits of respect for abusive government are, should be fine among ladies and gentlemen.
#23
Well, OP I share your frustration but I have a slightly different take. The current crop of radical leftists that populate the MSM and the halls of Congress are part of what I call the "Worst Generation". These folks tasted their first bit of power in the sixties when, as students, their abhorrent behavior was successful in undermining our efforts in Vietnam. They went from college campuses to government and media jobs and stayed in the background during the Reagan years, which they despised. This Worst Generation crowd is the most selfish group of individuals to populate planet earth in modern history. The reason they get the Worst Generation moniker is because these useless excuses for human beings have gotten to where they are solely by sponging off the hard work of their Greatest Generation parents. But as with so many things in life, things tend to happen in boom and bust cycles. When the likes of the John Kerrys, Nancy Pelosis and Hillarys are finally in diapers, the ruins of their destruction will have to be reassembled by the next generation. And when you meet the fine men and women that populate todays military along with the growing number of conservative youngsters you have to have some faith things will work out in the end. But it is grim for now. Not only are the Worsts trying to destroy us with respect to our foreign enemies, they are going to bring us to our knees from within. Their big government structure will collapse when these people enter their 80s and burden the next generation with the task of caring for them. If you run the numbers it wont be possible. Think early 1930s style living.
#24
It seems to me that the left are no longer American. Be they tranzis or multicults or socialists of just power hungry tyrants. Somewhere during the last 40 years the left stopped being American first and are democrats first. Kinda like being a mooslim before a particula citizenship. Ironic comparison that.
I agree the time will come when they finally push too far. What they dont seem to grasp is we have the guns, the military and the majority of the land. They have gay marriage, abortion and a distinct lack of honor.
I'll be sorry to see it happen but I wont be on the losing side.
#26
It's scary when you know that folks are voting based on listening to the likes of Rosie et all.
I wish I were making this up, but it's true!
Meanwhile, our brave young men and women are out there protecting us putting their lives on the line. God bless them all.
Intrinsicpilot, I agree with you.
Posted by: Jan from work ||
03/28/2007 15:58 Comments ||
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#27
Ladies & Gentlemen,
While I respect most of you for your viewpoints, a lot of you seem to hold the belief that all is lost, that the left has won, and that the only direction is violence and rebellion.
Remember, there's another election only about a year and a half away. There's another one 2 years after that - and another and another and another until such point as when the left really does abandon republican government (meant in the manner of a republican democracy). Only then will rebellion and revolution be truly justified.
Remember, you still have the right and the duty to act. You still have the right and duty to vote. You still have the right and duty to speak up and speak out against those things you see as wrong via letters to the editor in your local newspapers, to your local town council, to your state assemblies & senates, to your governors, to your congresscritters, to your President. You still have the right and the duty to do what you think is the right thing.
It is your responsibility and duty to defend your country however you are possibly able to do so!
Remember,
"Evil prosopers only when good men fail to act."
Edmund Burke
Most of you can talk the talk, now you need to walk the walk.
#30
Well it's certainly a good point, that we haven't run out of ballot box yet. Nor have the bastidges triumphed yet, only won a skirmish.
But I sure as hell don't like the way things seem to be headed.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
03/28/2007 17:52 Comments ||
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#31
Dave D., it's good that you don;t like the way things are headed. Few people do, but those who really don't like it are the ones who're most likely to speak out and do something about it.
It is alright not to like the way things are going. It is not alright to not like it and to remain silent about the fact.
Why do you think the leftists get so many protestors out there in the streets whenever they stage an event like San Francisco or Washington, DC or wherever?
Those people out there in the streets really believe, for the most part, and they'e there because they're walking the walk as well as talking the talk.
They do not like what they see going on and they're not willing to be silent about it.
It's basically that simple.
We need to become just as vocal, just as active, and just as forceful with the best parts of our message to counter the vileness of the worst parts of their message.
#34
Recent leftwing protests have been fairly small and utterly pathetic. Look at their march on the Vietnam Memorial, when they were outnumbered by the Patriots lining their route and guarding the memorial. Look at the 200 or so that showed up to hear that actor Penn on the subject. (I'd bet hard cash that his next film contract isn't nearly so lucrative, with that kind of draw.) The honourable Nancy Pelosi is being protested at her own house by the Code Pinkers!
#35
Once again, FREEREPUBLIC Poster/Blogger [paraphrased] > AMER IS MOVING TOWARDS COMMUNISM + SOCIALISM + OWG etc., AND GOD HELP US ALL, THE COMMIES + SOCIALISTS + GLOBALISTS, etc. DON'T KNOW HOW TO STOP IT! Besides, SSSSSSSHHHHHHHH, pretending that they are. *D ***ng it, America is ATTACKATREATING in Iraq, and don't youse all fergit it.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson said the United States needs to do more to prevent a "nuclear 9-11," a threat that he argues has been neglected because the Bush administration has been consumed with Iraq.
The New Mexico governor said the United States must lead an effort to secure nuclear materials in Russia and dangerous areas of the world so they can't get into terrorists' hands. "If al-Qaida obtained nuclear weapons, they would not hesitate to use them with the same ruthlessness that allowed them to fly airplanes filled with people into buildings," he said in a speech to the Nitze School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University.
"It took a Manhattan project to create the bomb," Richardson said. "We need a new Manhattan project to stop the bomba comprehensive program to secure all nuclear weapons and all weapons-usable material, worldwide."
Asked why he doesn't support a nuclear-free world like former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and other Cold War leaders have promoted, Richardson replied, "I'm a pragmatist."
"I believe what the world needs to do is nuclear arms reductions," Richardson said. He recalled that it didn't work when President Reagan and Soviet Prime Minister Mikhail Gorbachev agreed in 1986 to renounce all nuclear weapons "for about 10 minutes."
Richardson worked on securing Russian nuclear weapons when he was energy secretary in the Clinton administration. But he accused the Bush administration of underfunding their programs.
"Meanwhile, we are spending $10 billion a month on Iraq," he said. "Of the many ways in which the Iraq war has distracted us from our real national security needs, this is the most dangerous."
In the question-and-answer period after his speech, Richardson laid out the plans for his first days in the White House. The first day, he would get out of Iraq. The second, he would announce a plan to drastically cut U.S. dependence on foreign oil.
On the third day, the issue would be global warming. Richardson gave former Vice President Al Gore credit for spreading knowledge about the issue through his Oscar-winning film. But he wasn't encouraging Gore to enter the 2008 race.
"I like Al Gore, he looks very healthy and prosperous," Richardson said with a laugh. "He should stay where he is."
#3
There are only three likely sources of a nuclear 9-11:
1) North Korea - we retain a major military presence nearby and have constantly been working diplomatic angles through China.
2) Pakistan (the only proven nuclear player on the board) - we have a large military presence nearby and have constantly been working diplomatic angles, both within Pakistan and with India.
3) Iran - we have a large military presence on two sides (three if you count Turkey) and have been working the diplomatic angles as best we can through Europe and the UN.
Other players are all 'rational' and hence deterrable the same as during the Cold War.
What other approaches does Mr. Richardson have in mind? A Manhattan project anti-nuke? Is this some kind of bomb that would 'suck up' the energy and radiation from a nuclear detonation? That would require some seriously new physics.
#8
I do no think Barak Osama will get a VP nod, the water between Osama and Hillary is already poisoned. Richardson is moving in as the prime candidate for that spot.
Having said that these comments, if made during the Clinton administration, or even during Bush sr would have been wise. Now they come off as naive for two reasons (1) it assumes the USA can't multitask (2) it assumes Putin would gladly hand over or sell russian weapons to the US.
After all the paranoid nonsense Putin has spewed in the last few years I just don't see him selling.
#9
A bizarre combo of common sense and idiocy by the former baseball non-star.
One of my pet bugaboos is touched on here.
The US has been "distracted" by Iraq? What are we, Belgium? Let's take this template and review some history.
I guess in 1942 FDR should have (1) abandoned the Soviets as they teetered near collapse (2) abandoned the UK (3) disdained any initiatives involving the European theater, including North Africa (4) ignored the CBI theater (too far away, mostly British) (5) focused exclusively on the Solomons and then the Gilberts campaigns. That way, the US wouldn't have been "distracted".
It astounds me that something so utterly idiotic can pass the lips of so many public figures, and to date I've never seen the withering, vituperative, humiliating bitch-slap lecture that such nonsense deserves in return. The Dems and select GOP retards have been mouthing this idiocy for years, I've yet to see them slapped down.
Memo to Richardson, who has beclowned himself: the US of 60 years ago could have - in fact did - handle 100 Iraqs at one time, with a bit more than half the population, virtually no technology as we understand that term today, horrible intel (except for code-breaking), in a dozen time zones around the world. Against adversaries 10,000 times more sophisticated, lethal, and organized, and in fact backed by large industrial bases.
Sheesh. Is it asking too much for a single member of Congress or the administration to come out and talk sense in an intelligent and historically literate fashion to help avoid further degradation of public discourse?
#12
IIRC, Bush Sr. started something like this, and everyone has continued it down through the decade+ since. We're helping all the former Soviet satellites either dispose of or secure their nuke arms. As Glenmore said, any nuke used by terrorists will come from North Korea, Pakistan, or Iran, not from any of the former Soviet satellites, and doubtfully from Russia itself (although there are those in Russia that would sell anything for cash, especially US $$$). Richardson is trying to attract attention, so he's spewing what he thinks will get him attention. He's also been AGAINST stronger border protection. What a POS.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/28/2007 21:14 Comments ||
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#13
Dubya is in "FORTRESS ME" mode, plus he has already announced he will veto the new spending bill wid the March 2009 timetable. The ball is still squarely in Moud's corner. Unless something changes to Dubya-USA's detriment, Moud knows Dubya still has roughly 1-2/3 years left to STRENGTHEN the US-Allied position in the ME + WORLD agz Radical Iran. THE USA WILL BE THE SAME + LIKELY STRONGER, MOUD = IRAN WILL BE SAME OR LIKELY WEAKER, EVEN IFF NO US/US-led INVASION = AIR ATTACK ONLY TAKES PLACE. Dubya-Allies have the time advantage, Moud-Iran-Radical Islam do not. As said times before, MOUD's = IRAN = RADICAL ISLAM's GREATEST "ACE" ARE SCARED POLS + ESPEC ANTI-AMER AMERICANS [ALREADY?] EMPLACED WITHIN THE US NPE. Worse to worse, some PC thingys or events must take place for the latter to rise to unchallengeable US-specific POLITICAL POWER. GOOD POLITIX, EVEN FOR AMER'S ENEMIES, IS KEEPING OPTIONS OPEN, CORRECT!? Iff Dubya does noting to invoke a "justified" retaliatory mil or terror strike [new9-11/Amer Hiroshima]by Iran-Radic Islam agz America, INSIDE AMERICA BUT OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON DC, HOW WILL MOUD FORESTALL "REGIME CHANGE" INSIDE IRAN vv IMPLOSION? Dubya is "upping the ante" such that IT MAY NOT BE ENUFF FOR MOUD-RADICAL ISLAM TO SIMPLY OUTLAST DUBYA'S TENURE AS POTUS.
#14
The anti-US agendists want to induce = force America under anti-US OWG + anti-US SWO/CWO, so even iff any new 9-11's = WMD Terror attack(s) occur, it must be pC "justifified"; plus the USA must be politically = forcibly limited or denied from unilater initiating/employing its full military power in retaliation = pre-emption. THE WOT = FUTURE US-CENTRIC OWG-NWO/New Global Order WILL ULTIMATELY BE WON OR LOST IN WASHINGTON DC, EVEN IFF WASHINGTON = HALLS OF CONGRESS MUST GLOW IN THE DARK.
In yet another provocative claim, TV host Rosie O'Donnell implied yesterday the Iranian seizure of British sailors was a hoax to provide President Bush with an excuse to go to war with Tehran.
In a discussion about the 15 British personnel seized Friday for allegedly entering Iranian waters, the controversial co-host of ABC's "The View" correlated the event to the Gulf of Tonkin incident that propelled the U.S. into the Vietnam War. President Johnson's administration was accused of provoking one incident in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin and making up another as a pretext for war.
O'Donnell, according to the media watchdog Newsbusters, said: "But interesting with the British sailors, there were 15 British sailors and Marines who apparently went into Iranian waters and they were seized by the Iranians. And I have one thing to say: Gulf of Tonkin, Google it. Okay."
The U.S. and Britain, however, along with Iraq and France, contend the sailors were not in Iranian waters.
After O'Donnell's comment, the dialogue when like this:
JOY BEHAR: Some other time. Some other time.
O'DONNELL: Well, you know...
BARBARA WALTERS: It could be a decision-making time. It's a very difficult situation. It's at the United Nations. It's being examined now. Should there be sanctions? Militarily, we certainly don't seem to be in the position to do something militarily. But it is a decision-making time.
O'DONNELL: Yes, but it's very interesting too that, you know, these guys, they went into the water by mistake right at a time when British and American, you know, they're two, they're pretty much our biggest ally and we're considering whether or not we should go into war with Iran.
BEHAR: But the U.N. was about to sanction them, also have an embargo against Iran. And the, and the timing [unintelligible] so they distracted the whole world with this.
ELISABETH HASSELBECK: Right and they may be about to expel the inspectors right now, too, which could be considered [unintelligible]
O'DONNELL: Right or it could be just the Gulf of Tonkin, which you should all Google.
As WND reported last week, O'Donnell implied the World Trade Center brought down deliberately on Sept. 11, 2001, for the purpose of eliminating records of government investigations into corporate fraud.
The previous week O'Donnell defended 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. During the March 15 broadcast of "The View," she suggested the U.S. government elicited a false confession from Mohammed by using torture, robbing him of his humanity and treating him like an animal.
A transcript of Mohammed's confession to 31 terrorist attacks had been released that day, but O'Donnell argued it came only after having a "hood on his head and being beaten to death."
"They didn't allow reporters there and he hasn't had a lawyer," the talk show host stated, insinuating the confession was coerced with no accountability.
Defending U.S. handling of Mohammed, co-panelist Elisabeth Hasselbeck asked, "You don't think he had ties to any of (the terrorist acts)?"
"I think the man has been under custody in secret CIA torture prisons and Guantanamo Bay where torture is accepted and allowed and he finally is the guy who admits to doing everything," O'Donnell said. "They finally found the guy, it's not that guy bin Laden, it's this guy they've had since March 2003."
In November, O'Donnell told Hasselbeck in an exchange on "The View" that Americans shouldn't fear terrorists.
"Faith or fear, that's your choice," she said.
"You can walk through life believing in the goodness of the world, or walk through life afraid of anyone who thinks different than you and trying to convert them to your way of thinking."
#4
You need a graphic of Rosie's open mouth with the gaza shit flood pouring out of it...
Posted by: M. Murcek ||
03/28/2007 11:52 Comments ||
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#5
At some point she will say which political candidate she supports. She can't help herself, she's got time to fill and needs attention.
Someone will then take her insane comments and make a commercial, ending the commercial with her quote of support for some candidate. That candidate will be sunk right then and there and she'll realize that she's a court jester, and not the wise kind you find in movies but more of the turd throwing monkey kind.
#6
Some people are born idiots. Rosie's worked hard to get where she is today.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/28/2007 13:48 Comments ||
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#7
O'Donnell told Hasselbeck in an exchange on "The View" that Americans shouldn't fear terrorists.
Hmmm, I'd like to see her ass over in the middle east being chummy with these terrorists that we americans shouldn't be fearing.
Not that I'm "fearing", but I certainly want to be on the ready and protect myself.
Posted by: Jan from work ||
03/28/2007 15:38 Comments ||
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#8
That thing (I will not disgrace the likes of TW or Seafarious or Desert/Swamp Blondie by calling it a woman) is certifiably insane with BDS and anti-Americanism. It got the platform it wanted and its made enemies of its own co-hosts.
When are the people who run that show going to realize they have a certifiably insane cast member on the show and yank it off the air or cancel its contract?
#11
Alright slightly what im talking about, but I want to see the war happen. This woman needs medical help, and should think things over and discuss them more before going on TV.
#13
Sorry, Devil, this thing is a fatuous, ill-informed, egotistical, self-absorbed illiterate piece of garbage that believes it is the only thing that has a voice or knows the truth.
In this, it is evil beyond words because it truly believes what it says.
#14
FOTSgreg, Rosie's rants get press and probably increase the ratings. Sick and sad but true. She's not going anywhere until the sponsers get scared.
#15
rj, I know that, but it's a sad commentary that the producers would allow this thing to continue to vent its rage and venom on a nationally televised TV program without some comment from the broadcasters that they do not promote or hold to its views.
I do not wish it dead, just off the (national/international) air or consigned to some obscure channel.
#19
Rosie this AM also alluded or compared Dubya to the character Tony Soprano, i.e. Dubya is a MOB BOSS??? Iff I understood her comments correctly, by Rosie's scope Dubya + Admin are Mafiosi, + Amer is fighting a Global WOT to impose GLOBAL MOB RULE [OWG?]??? FREEREPUBLIC Poster > America = post-USSR [Mafia] Russia!?
#20
Don't try to parse Ms. O'Donnell's logic, JosephM -- there isn't any. She started off as a comedienne, and her instinct is to spout off whatever will get a laugh... or at least shocked attention. Beyond that there is no thought process whatsoever.
#22
how far barbara walters has fallen. She used to do real interviews and now she has to sit with smelly white trash and pretend to have an interesting conversation. Maybe The View can add Jerry Springer and really get a class act going.
A local university has announced plans for an investigative journalism seminar in which faculty and students will search for clues as to what really happened when Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered in Karachi in 2002.
The Pearl Project of Georgetown Universitys School of Continuing Studies will be funded by Prince al-Waleed and led by Barbara Feinman Todd, associate dean of journalism, and former Wall Street Journal reporter Asra Q Nomani, who is to join Georgetown as a professor in the practice of journalism. Nomani, Pearls friend and colleague from his days at the Wall Street Journals Washington bureau, rented the Karachi home where Pearl and his wife Mariane were staying at the time of his disappearance. Sadly, we couldnt save Danny, but journalists are sort of like the Marines. We cant leave the truth behind, Nomani said. For the five years since Danny was killed, I have wanted to find out the full truth behind Dannys kidnapping and murder.
The project will consist of graduate students and undergraduate English majors. Those enrolled in the seminar will investigate motive and attempt to determine who really killed Pearl. They will also examine the wider relationship between the Muslim world and the press and profile others who have died in the front lines of journalism.
The project will take place during the Fall 2007 semester, and has the support of Pearls family and his widow, Mariane, who now lives in Paris.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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#3
Journalism grad students and English major undergrads? The professor is going to have an interesting time herding that bunch in the right direction... but the students may actually learn something about reality.
The Kashmiri separatist leader, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, who underwent a surgery in Mumbai, has been officially denied a visa to the United States.
His family said they were called to the US consulate in Mumbai where they were conveyed the decision of the US State Department to bar Geelani, who is suffering from cancer in the kidney, from travelling to America.
Geelani, who is also the Chairman of the breakaway Hurriyat Conference, had approached the US for a visa to undergo treatment using laser therapy. When contacted, a US Embassy spokesperson confirmed that Geelanis request for visa was turned down. Asked on what grounds his visa request was denied, the spokesperson said that under US laws, information about visa application was confidential but Geelani has consistently failed to renounce violence as means of achieving his political goal in Kashmir.
US supports India and Pakistans ongoing discussions on how to resolve important bilateral issues including the question of Kashmir, the spokesperson said. Normal relations and increase in trade and people-to-people ties will benefit both countries and the region, the spokesperson added, stressing that the steps taken by both countries following the 2005 earthquake in Kashmir were particularly encouraging.
Geelani was operated at the Tata Memorial Hospital on Monday and the doctors successfully removed the malignant tumour from his only surviving kidney. He was admitted to the hospital on March 21. Geelani is 77 years old and had one kidney removed in 2003. His remaining kidney had been detected with cancer earlier this month by doctors at the Apollo hospital in New Delhi.
Posted by: John Frum ||
03/28/2007 06:43 ||
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#2
Scumbag's gonna die in Pakland. It's a good place for it. Glad someone had the good sense and balls to tell this muzzy jerk that he wasn't welcome.
Posted by: Mac ||
03/28/2007 9:33 Comments ||
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#3
Must suck to not believe in modern medicine and preach that shit day in and out to your congregation of sheeple; until you need it, right dickhead???
An all-tribes jirga of Tank district has decided to meet pro-Taliban militant leader Baitullah Mehsud to seek his help in bringing normalcy to the district, bordering South Waziristan, as schools, government offices and commercial centres were closed amidst fears of more Taliban attacks after a clash with police on the premises of a school on Monday. AFP reported that Taliban militants abducted the principal of the school, Farid Mehsud, on Tuesday. He had called for police protection after the Taliban visited his school in a bid to recruit youth for jihad. Government offices, bazaars and schools were closed after midday, said schoolteacher Mumtaz Khan as Tank Nazim Riaz Kundi ordered the closure of all schools for a week on security grounds. Senator Saleh Shah of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal said that representatives of all tribes in the district would meet Mehsud on Wednesday with a peace message.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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Iraqs government does not need an order from the Arab summit on how to amend its constitution and boost national reconciliation, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said yesterday. Amendment of the constitution is an obligation written in the text of the constitution, and we are determined to do it without waiting to be told, Zebari told AFP.
Arab foreign ministers meeting ahead of the summit here agreed Monday to call for an amendment of Iraqs constitution to give Sunni Arabs a greater share of power in the war-ravaged country and prevent its breakup. The call came in a draft resolution to be submitted to Arab heads of state starting their annual summit today. We have obligations toward our people and we know them. We dont need a diktat from Arab countries. We tell them (Arab states) that the idea of national reconciliation is ours, not yours, Zebari said.
The Iraqi government has initiated moves to review the de-Baathification law, he added. The Arab foreign ministers also called Monday for reviewing the de-Baathification law in order to enhance the national reconciliation process in Iraq, according to one minister. What Iraq does need from fellow Arab states is their help in fighting terrorism and controlling the borders to stop arms crossing into the country, said Zebari.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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And, where was this esteemed gang of thieves during the Saddam era? MIA
Posted by: Captain America ||
03/28/2007 0:36 Comments ||
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#3
Naturally the Sunni Arab states want the Sunnis in Iraq to have more power. Since these wonderful fellows have done next to nothing to help the new state of Iraq, why should the Iraqis care what they say or think? If they have a future, it is with the West. Otherwise, they will collapse into the third world morass of the middle east.
Islamic Jihad rejected in advance Tuesday any decisions that might be adopted at the imminent Arab League summit in Riyadh that could lead to the recognition of Israel. "Any decisions or initiatives accepting the existence of the Zionist entity are an affront to our people, and we consider them illegal," the group said in a statement obtained by AFP in Gaza.
Elsewhere in the text the group reiterated its position that it "would never" recognize Israel and vowed to continue its struggle against the Zionist regime. Arab leaders gathered in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday for a summit which will formally re-launch a long-dormant Saudi initiative for Middle East peace and actively seek negotiations with Israel. Libya has boycotted the summit. Under the plan, Arab nations would recognize Israel if the Zionists withdrew from all territories occupied in the 1967 war.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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It's the same old tactic: Israelis make a few concessions, everybody gets on board, smiles all around, peace on the horizon - except for one group, and it doesn't matter which one.
This is followed by dead Jews, which is followed by retaliation. The dead Jews are forgotten as the Paleos point to the dead puppies and kittens and fluffy bunnies. The Paleos retain the concessions and the grind of violence returns to normal.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 7:17 Comments ||
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#3
Have the Israelis considered a movable wall? One that eventually meets the Egyptian border wall.
Posted by: ed ||
03/28/2007 8:07 Comments ||
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Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas security advisor Mohammad Dahlan said here yesterday that it would not be enough for Arab leaders to propose a political initiative, such as the one proposed in Beirut in 2002 by the Kingdom regarding the Palestinian issue, without any mechanisms for implementation. It is important that there be a mechanism for implementation on the ground regarding any peace initiative, he told reporters here on arrival. It should also produce the mechanisms for cooperation with the international community to support the proposal.
Dahlan said that in order for the proposal to hold water, it would have to be followed up by an initiative from Arab foreign ministers. Only then would the proposal have a serious impact, he said. He said that Arab foreign ministers had agreed that this mechanism for implementation would be led by Saudi Arabia. Dahlan said he was hopeful that the summit would endorse many of the previous Arab summit decisions that have not seen the light.
He lauded the Kingdom for hosting the summit and the role played by the country in supporting the Palestinian cause, citing the example of the Makkah summit. We also hope that the summit financially supports the unified Palestinian government in a serious and direct manner so the government can start doing its duty, he said, adding that the lifting of embargos is vital to the success of the new government.
Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erekat said that the Arab stance regarding the Palestinian issue was firm, which is represented in the Arab peace initiative.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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It should also produce the mechanisms for cooperation with the international community to support the proposal.
In other words, "Our usual tissue of lies must somehow be made believable enough so that the foreign aid spigot is turned on again."
Israeli and Palestinian leaders have agreed to hold confidence-building talks every two weeks that could eventually lead to discussions on a Palestinian state, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said yesterday.
A senior Israeli official made clear, however, that substantive talks on statehood between Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas would not be on the agenda for now. Other Israeli officials cited disagreements between Olmert and Rice over the scope of deliberations. "The issues would be security, humanitarian and the political horizon," the senior official said, the latter term a loose reference to a US-backed vision of a Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel. "Political horizon is not about specifics," the official said, appearing to rule out any discussion soon on core issues such as the future of occupied Jerusalem, the borders of a Palestinian state and the fate of Palestinian refugees.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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The Fourth Army will open a prison for Muslim women because quite a few of them have been recruited into an insurgent network dedicated to violence and protest against the government. Fourth Army commander Lt-Gen Viroj Buacharoon said women have planted bombs, transported firearms and rallied against the government.
A prison would be designated for Muslim women suspected of involvement in the unrest. The prison would be in the compound of the police forward command in Yala and would be staffed by female rangers and female police. Female security officers are assigned to arrest Muslim women.
A source said Permuda, an insurgent male youth organisation, and the Permudi women's insurgent group have increased their membership and now have a combined 5,000 members in the deep South.
The authorities also plan to ask female Muslim suspects to remove full-length veils which cover their faces except for the eyes. In many protests, it was found that male militants had donned veils and a long dress and mingled with women to escape police action, because male authorities are barred from touching Muslim women.
Lt-Gen Viroj said if soldiers find female protesters wearing such veils they will ask that they remove them, so they are left with only headscarves. ''Removing the veil will be done in private, in the presence of female officers,'' the commander said.
Lt-Gen Viroj said people joining rallies would be asked to show their ID cards. Authorities would take photos of protesters and put barricades around them to avoid possible clashes with officers.
National Legislative Assembly member Angkhana Neelaphaijit, a Muslim, agreed that a prison for women would be an assurance that suspects would be treated gently. The removal of veils must be done with the wearer's consent.
Provincial Police Region 9 is to address the shortage of policemen in the deep South by accepting non-commissioned soldiers. About 1,400 soldiers are expected to be transferred each year.
By Peter Graff and Sophie Walker
DUBAI (Rooters) - Iranian Arabic-language al-Alam television said on Wednesday it will broadcast footage of British sailors held in Iran.
In a news flash, the television said the footage would be aired "later" without giving further details. It later said it would also show an interview with the only woman sailor detained.
Turkey's private CNN Turk television earlier quoted Iran's foreign minister as saying Tehran would release the woman sailor "today or tomorrow".
TEHRAN, Iran - Iranian state TV showed video Wednesday of the 15 British sailors and marines who were seized last week, including a female captive who wore a white tunic and a black head scarf and said the British boats "had trespassed" in Iranian waters.
The British government protested Iran's broadcast of the captured crew as "completely unacceptable." The British military had earlier released what it called proof that its boats were in the territorial waters of Iraq not Iran when they were seized.
"Obviously we trespassed into their waters," British sailor Faye Turney said on the video broadcast by Al-Alam, an Arabic-language, Iranian state-run television station that is carried across the Middle East.
"They were very friendly and very hospitable, very thoughtful, nice people. They explained to us why we've been arrested, there was no harm, no aggression," she said.
Turney, 26, was shown eating with sailors and marines. At another point, she was seen sitting in a room with a floral curtains, smoking a cigarette.
"My name is leading sailman Faye Turney. I come from England. I have served in Foxtrot 99. I've been in the navy for nine years," she said. Turney was the only person to be shown speaking in the video.
It also showed what appeared to be a handwritten letter from Turney to her family. The letter said, in part, "I have written a letter to the Iranian people to apologize for us entering their waters."
These primal slimal inhumane ass***** and thier treatment of these sailors is so not acceptable.
Yeah let me show you a mock execution to have you admit fault.
Posted by: Jan from work ||
03/28/2007 15:31 Comments ||
Top||
#6
IONews, DEBKA/WORLDNEWS > Saudi King back in March [paraphrased] > WARNS THAT ISRAEL MUST ACCEPT PEACE PLAN, OR FUTURE + FATE OF REGION IN HANDS OF "LORDS OF WAR".
March 28 (Bloomberg) -- The U.K. Ministry of Defence, stepping up pressure on Iran to return 15 detained sailors and Marines, released evidence suggesting British boats were 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraq when they were seized. Vice Admiral Charles Style said Iran's navy raided Britain's boats on the Iraqi side of the Shatt al-Arab waterway dividing the two countries on March 23. He said GPS navigation data showed the position of Britain's boats, adding that Iranian officials have given two separate accounts of the location of the vessels.
``It is hard to understand a legitimate reason for the change of coordinates,'' Style said at a briefing in London today. The boats, he said, were about their ``legal business in Iraqi waters under a United Nations'' resolution.
The comments marked an escalation in the diplomatic effort, bringing details of the British argument with Iran into the public. Prime Minister Tony Blair, who has attempted to defuse the situation by giving time for private discussions between British and Iranian officials, today told Parliament that the capture of the Britons was ``wrong and completely illegal.'' ``We had hoped to see their immediate release. It is now time to ratchet up the pressure,'' Blair said.
Iran rejected the British assertions, saying the boats were half a kilometer (0.3 of a mile) inside Iranian waters. A statement from the Iranian embassy in London said the sailors and Marines were in good condition and that an investigation into the matter was underway. ``We are confident that Iranian and British governments are capable of resolving this security case through their close contacts and cooperation'' in a way that would prevent the ``reoccurrence of such incidents in the area,'' the embassy said. ``We are of the belief that this legal and technical issue has no link to any other issues.''
Yesterday, Iran's Foreign Ministry raised hopes that the crisis could be resolved peacefully. ``The issue will be solved in a calm atmosphere,'' said the ministry's spokesman, Mohammad Ali Hosseini. ``We cannot predict how long it will take.'' British diplomats in Tehran will be able to contact the 15 sailors and Marines after an ``initial phase of inquiry,'' Hosseini was quoted as saying by the official Islamic Republic News Agency yesterday.
Britain has avoided threatening military action or increased economic sanctions against Iran because of the incident. Blair's stance, backed by opposition politicians, reflects his limited options to defuse the dispute and the lessons learned from previous incidents with Iran. President Jimmy Carter's effort to free 52 Americans held in Tehran in 1980 cost the lives of eight Marines and failed to recover any hostages.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/28/2007 07:51 ||
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#1
I'm surprised the dreaded Foreign Service Nuance has not been unsheathed. That would would make the Iranians tremble and capitulate.
#3
Blair's stance, backed by opposition politicians, reflects his limited options to defuse the dispute and the lessons learned from previous incidents with Iran. President Jimmy Carter's effort to free 52 Americans held in Tehran in 1980 cost the lives of eight Marines and failed to recover any hostages.
#5
Blair's stance, backed by opposition politicians, reflects his limited options to defuse the dispute and the lessons learned from previous incidents with Iran. President Jimmy Carter's effort to free 52 Americans held in Tehran in 1980 cost the lives of eight Marines and failed to recover any hostages.
Here is the essence of idiotic editorializing in place of reporting. An absolutely upside-down, counter-factual bit of nonsense that of course just happens to put the UK's pathetic performance in a much better light.
Sorry, no sale here on the counsel of caution and finesse (why is that the ONLY approach ever counseled by a large group of folks, most of whom have nothing but failed ideas and policies in their background?) with Iran on this. Even many sometimes sensible types are saying Iran is trolling for a confrontation, and will benefit from one. Oh - and somehow, Iran's "image" in a supine, distracted, dysfunctional Europe will be damaged if the UK just lies down and takes it. Leading to .... what, exactly? The EU - backed by a yawning, pathetic British public that doesn't seem to give a damn about any of this - will bring the mullahs to their knees? Yeah, right.
Meanwhile, this statement about the patrol's location only serves to emphasize the incompetence (sorry, there's no other word for it) of the Royal Navy and its leadership here. Listen up, smooth-talking, highly educated RN brass and civilian apologists: you have allowed Iran to seize and keep the initiative in ESCALATING the situation to their taste. Your "restraint" is the essence of incompetence, reinforced by an utterly baseless arrogance that somehow you have discovered yet another way in which finesse and lack of action can magically defeat good ol' fashioned thuggery and ruthless initiative as practiced by a weak and utterly hostile enemy.
The UK appears to be more of a liability than an asset at the moment. However, it's hard to replace their remaining ground troops in the south, which, however ineffective they may be due to their approach, do provide an outer barrier on chaos and warlordism.
Here's a peak at our near future. The US, already virtually alone in actually doing anything about any critical international situation, really doesn't even have the Brits to rely on any more.
#6
In essence, the UK is stating that Iran staged a raid against UK troops inside another country, that it must have been done on purpose and there is no doubt about it.
One would like to believe that such a clear Act of War will invite proper retribution. I'd enjoy hearing threats before the retribution, but I'll be content with watching Qom leveled to the ground.
#7
I think the Hezzies saw what happenes when you do this type of stuff to Israel. Notice how many Israelis have been kidnapped since....
I'm OK with a 37 or so day war....actually, this one could end in about 37 hours....
The Brits just needs to announce that if they don't get all of their guys back in 48 hours, the bombs are going to fall. Then see what Iran does. Call their bluff. If it isn't a bluff, then we would have had to go to war with them sooner or later anyway.
#8
Various Netters claim as per GPS the Brits are correct, plus Brit also confirmed their sailors' position via nearby merchant ship - however, some are asking whether its possible the ship being inspected [wid sailors aboard] had accidens drifted into Iran's line-of-demarcation. RN claims all ships had stopped and were inside Iraqi demarcation line.
#2
WORLDNEWS/OTHER > RUSSIA SLAMS US MISSLE POLICY, WARNS USA GAZ ATTACKING IRAN. USA over-relying on use of force instead of diplom negotiations.
"Clash of civilizations" redux wid Amer appearing to set itself apart from rest of world. RUSSIA WILL CHALLENGE = CRITICIZE? USA IFF NEED BE.
#3
Not surprising at all. Russians don't mind making deals with the devil.
Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a non-aggression treaty between the German Third Reich and the Soviet Union. The pact included a secret protocol, in which the independent countries of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania were divided into spheres of interest of the parties.
#4
Let's see how quickly any Russian "advisers" above the rank of concrete pourers arrive on site. I doubt the big brass is going to set foot at Bushehr anytime soon. They know damn well the place is toast.
Iran says the 15 British sailors and marines it detained last week are healthy and have been treated in a humane manner. Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad-Ali Hosseini said on Tuesday that the 26-year-old female sailor, Faye Turney, had been provided privacy, adding, "All moral codes have certainly been observed."
"They are in complete good health. They have been treated based on humanitarian and moral values," Hosseini told the Associated Press. The spokesman, however, did not elaborate on where the Britons were being kept, saying their case is under investigation. "The case should go through legal procedures. Media hyperbole will not lead to a hasty resolution of the case," Hosseini reiterated.
Tehran has said it is questioning the Britons to determine if their entry into Iranian waters was "intentional or unintentional" before making a decision on the Brits.
Meanwhile, British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Tuesday expressed hope diplomacy would win their release but was prepared to move to a different phase if not. "I hope we manage to get them (the Iranian government) to realize they have to release them," Blair said in an interview with GMTV. Also on Tuesday, British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett repeated her government's interest in a quick resolution to the crisis, telling reporters in Turkish city of Ankara that the matter should be settled "swiftly and peacefully."
"We will continue to leave the door open for a constructive outcome of these difficulties between Iran and the United Kingdom," Margaret Beckett said.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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#1
Hey, Rosie "the Beast" O'Donnell won't have any trouble believing it. Iranian propaganda is revealed truth to her.
#3
Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad-Ali Hosseini said on Tuesday that the 26-year-old female sailor, Faye Turney, had been provided privacy, adding, "All moral codes have certainly been observed."
Including, presumably, charming Orcish folkways concerning to taking of slave-concubines. After all, this was the deen of the Perfect Man (no, not al-Gor).
#4
Iran said a female British sailor seized with 14 other crewmembers would be released Wednesday or Thursday, softening Tehran's position by suggesting their boats' alleged entry into Iranian waters may have been a mistake.
Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki discounted the possibility of an escalation in the crisis, suggesting the British vessels may have made a mistake. ``This is a violation that just happened. It could be natural. They did not resist,'' he told The Associated Press.
``Today or tomorrow, the lady will be released,'' Mottaki said Wednesday on the sidelines of an Arab summit in the Saudi capital, referring to sailor Faye Turney, 26, the only woman among the 15.
Didn't the Iranians release the female hostages early during the US Embassy capture?
Posted by: Steve ||
03/28/2007 10:31 Comments ||
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#5
The hostage-takers, declaring their solidarity with other "oppressed minorities" and "the special place of women in Islam," released 13 women and African-Americans in the middle of November 1979. One more hostage, Richard Queen, was released in July 1980 after he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. The remaining 52 hostages were held captive until January 1981.
Lebanese President Emile Lahoud called on Arab leaders yesterday to confront what he described as indirect challenges exerted on Lebanon by great powers with the aim of serving Israeli interests. One of those challenges, he said, was repatriating Palestinian refugees, which is one of the terms that would be included in any future peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.
Lebanon has sent two separate delegations to the summit. Beirut is represented by both Lahoud and a delegation led by Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. Lahoud was officially invited as head of state, but after bids to form a single delegation failed, Siniora also received an invitation.
Speaking to reporters on his arrival at the Riyadh airbase, Lahoud said the issue of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon would in time have a negative impact on the social structure of his country. The settlement of Palestinian refugees in their host countries does not only affect the Palestinian cause but would have detrimental effects on the components of Lebanese society, he said.
Lahoud called on Arab leaders to continue their support to his country to establish a strong economy. The president said his country was no more labeled a weak nation, despite brutal wars against it by Israel, thanks to Arab solidarity with his country. However, for Lebanon to remain a strong country with a healthy economy, and with dynamic political institutions, support should be provided to it to enable it restore its national policies, he added.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/28/2007 00:00 ||
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Link ||
[5 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Actually, sweetheart, we've another 4 mil for you.
#2
Basic problem of the MidEast: Nobody, but nobody wants the Palestinians. They are self-made pariahs whose bad behavior is enabled by people who just want them to go somewhere else.
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Batna, 28 March (AKI) - An Algerian court has handed down a 20-year prison sentence in absentia to 
Lawyers for an Australian who was the first terror suspect to plead guilty before military tribunals at Guantanamo Bay met in private with prosecutors Tuesday to formalize details of a confession expected to speed his return home. David Hicks, who was accused of supporting al-Qaida and the Taliban during the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001, entered the plea Monday in a surprise development seen as a bid to end his five-year imprisonment at the U.S. naval base in southeast Cuba.
Riot police firing tear gas and brandishing batons clashed Tuesday with bands of youths who shattered windows and looted shops at a major Paris train station, officials said. Nine people were arrested. Officials said about 100 people were involved in the melee at Gare du Nord, one of Paris' most important transport hubs. Officers and police dogs fired tear gas and charged at groups of marauding youths, some of them wearing hoods and swinging metal bars. The youths responded by throwing trash cans and other objects at the officers. A group of youths smashed the windows of a sporting goods store and looted boxes of shoes. Others attacked automatic drink dispensers and set garbage cans on fire. 
A local university has announced plans for an investigative journalism seminar in which faculty and students will search for clues as to what really happened when Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered in Karachi in 2002.
An all-tribes jirga of Tank district has decided to meet pro-Taliban militant leader Baitullah Mehsud to seek his help in bringing normalcy to the district, bordering South Waziristan, as schools, government offices and commercial centres were closed amidst fears of more Taliban attacks after a clash with police on the premises of a school on Monday. AFP reported that Taliban militants abducted the principal of the school, Farid Mehsud, on Tuesday. He had called for police protection after the Taliban visited his school in a bid to recruit youth for jihad. Government offices, bazaars and schools were closed after midday, said schoolteacher Mumtaz Khan as Tank Nazim Riaz Kundi ordered the closure of all schools for a week on security grounds. Senator Saleh Shah of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal said that representatives of all tribes in the district would meet Mehsud on Wednesday with a peace message.
Islamic Jihad rejected in advance Tuesday any decisions that might be adopted at the imminent Arab League summit in Riyadh that could lead to the recognition of Israel. "Any decisions or initiatives accepting the existence of the Zionist entity are an affront to our people, and we consider them illegal," the group said in a statement obtained by AFP in Gaza. 
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas security advisor Mohammad Dahlan said here yesterday that it would not be enough for Arab leaders to propose a political initiative, such as the one proposed in Beirut in 2002 by the Kingdom regarding the Palestinian issue, without any mechanisms for implementation. It is important that there be a mechanism for implementation on the ground regarding any peace initiative, he told reporters here on arrival. It should also produce the mechanisms for cooperation with the international community to support the proposal.
Israeli and Palestinian leaders have agreed to hold confidence-building talks every two weeks that could eventually lead to discussions on a Palestinian state, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said yesterday.
Iran says the 15 British sailors and marines it detained last week are healthy and have been treated in a humane manner. Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad-Ali Hosseini said on Tuesday that the 26-year-old female sailor, Faye Turney, had been provided privacy, adding, "All moral codes have certainly been observed." 
Lebanese President Emile Lahoud called on Arab leaders yesterday to confront what he described as indirect challenges exerted on Lebanon by great powers with the aim of serving Israeli interests. One of those challenges, he said, was repatriating Palestinian refugees, which is one of the terms that would be included in any future peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.
