The United States has raised the prospect of a military invasion of Saudi Arabia. The House Armed Services Committee considered the possibility of a Saudi coup and U.S. response during a hearing on Oct. 26.
Saudi Arabia, with 200,000 military and National Guard troops, is the largest oil producer and exporter, with an output of nine million barrels of oil per day, according to Middle East Newsline. The Arab kingdom is the third largest supplier of oil to the United States, with more than 1.55 million barrels per day.
The scenario was outlined by Michael O'Hanlon, a senior fellow of the Brookings Institution, who cited a Saudi coup as one of several threats to the United States.
"How should the United States respond if a coup, presumably fundamentalist in nature, overthrows the royal family in Saudi Arabia?" O'Hanlon asked. "Such a result would raise the specter of major disruption to the oil economy."
The response could include the deployment of three U.S. Army divisions backed by fighter-jets and airborne early-warning and alert aircraft. In all, the U.S.-led mission could include up to 300,000 troops.
Congressional sources said the House hearing, which focused on future threats in the Middle East and other regions, marked increasing U.S. concern of Saudi instability. They said the open hearing echoed a series of briefings on Saudi and Gulf Arab instability given by non-government analysts to the State Department, Defense Department and National Security Council since 2002.
The House committee was told that U.S. concern of a Saudi coup appears greater than ever. O'Hanlon said such a coup would also destabilize Pakistan, a nuclear power since 1998.
"This type of scenario has been discussed for at least two decades and remains of concern today â perhaps even more so â given the surge of terrorist violence in Saudi Arabia in recent years as well as the continued growth and hostile ideology of Al Qaida along with the broader Wahabi movement," O'Hanlon said. In his testimony, O'Hanlon envisioned a Saudi coup as resulting in the emergence of what he termed a fundamentalist regime intent on acquiring nuclear weapons. Another prospect was that the new regime would seek to disrupt the oil market.
"Indeed, it might be feasible not to do anything at first, and hope that the new regime gradually realized the benefits of reintegrating Saudi Arabia at least partially into the global oil economy," O'Hanlon said. "But in the end the United States and other western countries might consider using force."
O'Hanlon envisioned a U.S.-led military operation designed to seize Saudi oil wells, located along the eastern coast. Washington and its allies would place the proceeds from Saudi oil sales into escrow for a future pro-Western government in Riyad.
A U.S.-led military force of 300,000 would be required to secure the entire Saudi Arabia, O'Hanlon said. He said about 10,000 troops could capture eastern Saudi Arabia, which contains virtually all of the kingdom's oil wells. But more than 100,000 additional troops would be required to protect the wells and other vital infrastructure.
"An operation to overthrow the new Saudi regime and gradually stabilize a country of the size in question would probably require in the vicinity of 300,000 troops, using standard sizing criteria," O'Hanlon said. "So in fact a coastal strategy, while easier in some ways and perhaps less bloody in the initial phases, could be fully half as large and might last much longer." Does the Brookings Institution have credibility?
#3
I think that .com laid out the basics of Eastern Arabia quite a while ago. Someone send the RB postings on this thread, so that the Committee can catch up with the info in time for lunch.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/02/2005 10:46 Comments ||
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#4
Gotta slice off the Mecca/Medina part too: controlling that gives the Wahabbis a lot of prestige=>power. Let Jordan have it back again, or maybe Prince al-Charles.
Posted by: James ||
11/02/2005 11:51 Comments ||
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#5
We also need to slice the Mecca/Medina region from the Saudis and put it into anti-Wahabi hands in order to deprive the Wahabis of the "moral" authority they have for being the keepers of teh holy places.
#8
I think B and JFM is on to something. The Poitiers theme park could be more popular than EuroDisney.
Posted by: ed ||
11/02/2005 19:41 Comments ||
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#9
Brookings is mainstream liberal. Think Liberman. LiberalHawk seems to be around there, too.
I'm sure we have plans for this, and I'm sure Congress discusses various threats and situations all the time. Doesn't mean anything is actually going to happen.
More evidence we are winning. Reg required
A blockbuster Ramadan television drama broadcast across the Arab world has broken new ground by daring to question the motives of terrorism committed in the name of Allah.
The plotline of al-Hur al-Ayn (Beautiful Maidens), has proved enormously controversial with its makers denounced by an angry fundamentalist minority. But it has also been hugely popular with an Arabic-speaking public fed up with the cliched portrayal of all Muslims as gun-toting fanatics. By highlighting the way innocent Muslims can also become victims of religious extremism, the drama is challenging the stereotypes that bedevil the Arab world.
Another recent drama entitled al Tareeq al-Waer, or Rugged Path, showed how those who try to attack non-Muslims in the name of Allah become corrupted and lose their moral authority.
In the Ghazali family household in Wadi Kadum, East Jerusalem, the finale of Beautiful Maidens, to be broadcast on the last night of Ramadan, is eagerly awaited. Amani Ghazali, 20, has watched all 29 previous instalments, which focus on life inside a compound in Saudi Arabia filled with families from other Arab nations.
The plot, based on a true story, describes how Saudi fundamentalists attack the compound for religious reasons, killing eight fellow Muslims. "The programme tries to say Islam is not a terrorist religion by focusing on the normal Muslims who suffer at the hands of a small terrorist minority," Amani said.
For her mother, Sana, 37, the story line was particularly powerful as she spent her childhood living in a compound as an expat Arab in Saudi Arabia. "I believe the programme has shown two sides of Islam," she said. "One is a normal Muslim, who has a normal life. And one is an abnormal Muslim who wants to fight the Americans, to make jihad. But in practice, he is not fighting Americans, he is fighting his own people.
"She said the programme brought home how different she feels from those Muslims who commit terrorist acts in the name of religion. "I am a Muslim," she said. "I pray five times a day, I fast during Ramadan. But I do not like the radicals who grow beards and wear flowing gowns.
"They claim they represent Islam. Their image was ugly in the series and in life. They recruit disenchanted people, who have social problems, and they are stupid."
Atta girl, Mom.
The programme was produced and broadcast by the Saudi-owned and Dubai-based Middle East Broadcasting Corporation. It has had angry e-mails and letters from Muslim extremists demanding it be taken off the air. But its Syrian director and producer, Najdat Anzour, was unapologetic about the controversy.
An advert for the drama, broadcast in the weeks before Ramadan, said the programme was dedicated to "all innocent victims of terror". "The series is aimed at those who have not made up their minds about terrorism yet," Mr Anzour said. "We want to tell them that Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace and dialogue. It's not a religion of violence."
The title of the programme is taken from the widely held belief that Islamic terrorists willing to become martyrs do so because the Koran promises them 72 virgins in heaven. In fact, the Koran makes no mention of 72 virgins and does not encourage suicide bombing or self-martyrdom.
The spread of satellite television across the Arab world has entrenched TV dramas as a key feature of Ramadan. With families gathering for the traditional feast to end the day of fasting, there is a captive audience.
#1
Anti-terror Ramadan TV drama stirs the Arab world
question: what doesn't stir up the Arab world?
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/02/2005 3:32 Comments ||
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#2
Very interesting. They love their dramas - to the extreme. As with all story-telling, if you can hook their attention, give them characters they can identify with, you have a blank canvas upon which to write your message.
If this doesn't create the wiggle room for the Victims 101 bullshit, then good on Anzour.
The "based on a true story" statement makes me curious - it's got to be one of the two Riyadh attacks, May 12, 2003 - or Nov 9, 2003. The point I'm after is that the majority of the dead in both attacks were ex-pats - not Saudis. Same for the al Khobar massacre in May, 04. How many were Muzzies in each attack is problematic - and if the second (??) Riyadh bombing rumors were true, that bombing was because someone thought them impious - there was supposed to be a brothel inside frequented by connected Saudi, IIRC.
#3
"We want to tell them that Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace and dialogue. It's not a religion of violence."
*cough*Bullshit*cough*
So long as these TV series run alongside dramatizations of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, etc., I don't think it means a hill of beans. The Saudis bankrolled it -- at the same time they're still pumping jihadi literature into mosques around the world.
This is a pure propaganda play. It wasn't aimed at the Muslim world, but at us.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/02/2005 7:48 Comments ||
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#4
Interesting that it takes Muslim on Muslim violence to get any reaction because you know killing Infidels is expected, and a duty from time to time.
#5
"One is a normal Muslim, who has a normal life. And one is an abnormal Muslim who wants to fight the Americans, to make jihad. But in practice, he is not fighting Americans, he is fighting his own people.
#6
I grew up with a passel of "normal" Muslims(Iranians) in Hayden Lake,Idaho of all places... they're fine people, this article, I believe, is hitting the mark right in the bullseye.
Posted by: bk ||
11/02/2005 10:52 Comments ||
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#7
I caught the very end of last night's Law & Order Criminal Intent (the one with the execrable Vincent D'Onofrio). They had terrorists on trial.
White supremacist terrorists. In New York City. With Hitler salutes, and denunciations of the 'infidels' on the witness stand.
#8
You don't understand, Seafarious. Outside of the enlightened enclaves such as Manhattan, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Austin, our nation is overrun by seething masses of white supremacists being organized by frothing televangelists. Just ask Sly Rocky Rambo.
A FANATICAL Muslim hatemonger who fled Britain taunted relatives of Londonâs 7/7 dead as they grieved yesterday. Anjem Choudhary â an aide of rabble rouser Omar Bakri Mohammed â described the bombings as âretaliationâ. He said the outrage was sparked by Tony Blairâs policy in Iraq, Afghanistan and Israel.
His outburst â from Beirut where he is safely holed up with Bakri â came as families paid respects to the 52 London victims at St Paulâs Cathedral. Choudhary, a spokesman for Islamist group al-Muhajiroun, told Sky News: âThis was retaliation for the presence of British forces in Iraq. It was also for the atrocities they have been committing in Iraq and Afghanistan and the support of the pariah state of Israel.â
Giving a clear insight into his twisted mind, Choudhary refused to condemn the July 7 mass murders. He said he would even accept the death of his own family in Muslim attacks. Choudhary issued a threat that more bombings are likely after a crackdown on fanatics like him and his cronies. Al-Muhajiroun previously told followers they lived under a âcovenant of securityâ in the UK and should not carry out atrocities. But Choudhary added: âWhen the British Government brings in laws to silence people there is going to be some kind of retaliation.â Choudhary fled Britain fearing arrest for supporting terrorism.
#4
Appears to me that they havn't had quite enough of Saddam just yet. If we could enroll Saddam into some multicultural awareness training, maybe some 7-Habits, give him a good VP and SECDEF (we have both in need of a time-out), maybe he could resume his duties..... ?
#6
"His Outburst"? This is the only way these guys know how to express themselves. Yeah as though retaliation makes it okay. If there are loving peaceful muslims, I say stand up to these guys, show us you do exist here.
Maybe after Prince Chas. passes through Paris, he can come back here for a quick visit.
Posted by: Jan ||
11/02/2005 12:51 Comments ||
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#7
Okay, I'll bite - many of these Moslem emigres came to the West for freedom, wealth, education and a better quality-of-life ergo they want the West to become like the repressed places they left. Same rationale as the Clinton-led DemoLefties wid America = Russia-China!? The DemoLeft > the Commies had been assisting the Radical Muslims since at least the Clinton second term ergo its only the Radic Muslims that attacked America on 9-11!?
President Hugo Chavez has warned the US he could give some of his country's F-16 fighter jets to Cuba or China. Mr Chavez accused the US of breaking a contract to supply spare parts for the jets it sold to Venezuela in the 1980s. He suggested that Washington would be less than pleased if military rivals gained access to the advanced planes.
Hugo's got 21 F-16A/B Block 15 models delivered in the mid 80's. I'm sure China knows everything about these old planes by now.
The F-16s were sold to previous governments that had better relations with the White House. The US sees Mr Chavez as an unfriendly head of state.
The Venezuelan president's latest provocative announcement came during a nationally televised address, dominated by appeals to Latin Americans to end the dominance of the US. Speaking of the fighter planes, he said he was "only thinking out loud". "Maybe we will just send them back to them, or perhaps we will send 10 planes to Cuba, or to China, so they can have a look at the technology of these aircraft."
The Venezuelan president not only accused the Bush administration of breaking a contract to supply spare parts for about 20 F-16s. He also said it was trying to interfere in negotiations between Venezuela and third countries on the upkeep of military equipment and the purchase of new weapons. Mr Chavez was referring to reports that the US has put pressure on Israel not to help Venezuela maintain the F-16 aircrafts.
US officials have not responded to the Venezuelan president's comments, who is highly critical of US foreign policy. If he carries out the threat, it would break Venezuela's obligation to protect F-16 technology. The BBC's Simon Watts says there is real substance to Mr Chavez's overtures to both China and Cuba.
He's most likely already given them full access to these birds. Hollow threat.
He recently signed an agreement with Beijing to launch a Venezuelan satellite, and is considering buying fighter aircraft from the Chinese.
Mr Chavez and President George Bush are both due this week to attend a regional summit which is expected to highlight the gulf between their visions for Latin America.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/02/2005 08:46 ||
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#2
he said he was "only thinking out loud". "Maybe we will just send them back to them, or perhaps we will send 10 planes to Cuba, or to China, so they can have a look at the technology of these aircraft."
Poor ***king Hugo, thinking outload again. Crate em up, send em to China. The spares business will help our trade deficit.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/02/2005 9:24 Comments ||
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#4
Go for it Chavez. The planes are old, and we didn't give you the best and top secret shit. You have good airframes. Wheee.
And without spare parts, they are expensive paperweights. So go ahead, export them you baby.
#11
During his ill-fated coup attempt way back in the early 90's part of his plan was to mount an air attack on government offices with a COIN aircraft like an OV-10.
#15
I have a friend in the Honduran Air Force. He says he will give a C-47 and a Stuart tank to Vietnam if Bush does not immediately send him a new Corvette, a couple of NFL cheerleaders, and an open credit line in Las Vegas. Hey, it's worth a shot.
Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev was receiving money from exiled Russian tycoon Boris Berezovsky and used it in a bid to separate the Caucasus from Russia for the benefit of the U.S. and the UK, investigative materials announced Tuesday in the Chechen Supreme Court, the Izvestia newspaper revealed.
Really? I did not know that.
Separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov, killed in March, said Basayev was cooperating with the West and had abandoned the idea of an independent Chechnya. Maskhadov himself preferred to cooperate with Russia rather than turn to the West, one of his fellow militants, Vakhit Murdashev, told the investigation.
âMaskhadov thought the U.S. was more dangerous than Russia and it was decided to come to an agreement with Russia at all costs,â says a statement from the North Ossetian investigator who worked with Murdashev. âThe statement touches upon the subject of the American and British interest in Chechnya and the North Caucasus,â Murdashevâs lawyer Bayali Elmurzayev told Izvestia.
âAccording to the statement, Aslan Maskhadov suspected that Basayev, funded by Berezovsky, could abandon the independence of Chechnya and start working to alienate the Caucasus from Russia.â
And he's done a bang-up job of it too.
So to speak ....
Aslan Maskhadov and four of his associates were seized near Grozny in March 2005. Maskhadov was killed in the operation, while the four militants are now on trial for participating in a gang and illegally keeping weapons.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/02/2005 10:32 ||
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#1
He was correct. Russia is too corrupt and incompetent to be a serious opponent.
#3
The US is the most dangerous nation on Earth, its just a matter of time before this becomes obvious.
Of course, there might be a few less nations around to get the point after that happens.
South Koreaâs top diplomat has indicated that Seoul could review Pyongyangâs possible request for a nuclear inspection of the U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) to verify the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
South Korea is subject to the verification process, according to the joint principle statement of the six-party talks on North Koreaâs nuclear programs, which was adopted in Beijing on Sept. 19.
``If the North raises the issue of inspection and verification in the South, including the facilities of the USFK, we will cope with it rationally by utilizing the 1992 inter-Korean joint declaration, which contains the principle of mutual inspection,ââ Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade Ban Ki-moon told The Korea Times in a written interview, marking the newspaperâs 55th anniversary.
The Joint Declaration of South and North Korea on the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, signed on Jan. 20, 1992, articulates that ``the two sides will conduct inspections of locations chosen by the other side and agreed upon by both sides.ââ
It means the U.S. military installations in South Korea could technically become the target of inspections, if Seoul gives the nod to Pyongyangâs choice of American bases.
Such permission from Seoul would raise a serious diplomatic row with Washington, given that the United States has sovereignty over its military installations in South Korea.
Even though the U.S. reaffirmed in the six-party statement that it has no nuclear weapons on the Korean Peninsula, there has been no chance for an independent verification.
The U.S.â stance on a possible request from North Korea for an inspection of the USFK is unknown. But such a demand could herald tough negotiations down the road in the six-party process.
In March 1992, the two Koreas established the South-North Joint Nuclear Control Commission (JNCC) to find ways to implement the declaration for a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula. But the commission failed to reach agreement on the reciprocal inspection regime.
During the 13 rounds of the JNCC meeting from March 19 to Dec. 17 in 1992, North Korea demanded South Korea and the U.S. permanently end Team Spirit military exercises and that it be allowed to inspect all U.S. military bases before it stopped reprocessing nuclear materials. However, neither South Korea nor the U.S. agreed to such terms.
All the possible controversies in the future, regarding the inspection and verification processes, originate from the joint statement of the six-party talks, which defines the Korean Peninsula, not North Korea, as the target for denuclearization.
During the negotiations in Beijing, Seoul agreed to accept Pyongyangâs demand that South Korea also be subject to the process of verifiable denuclearization to persuade North Korea to sign the joint principle document, Ban said.
``Participants in the talks have no difference of opinion that the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula means North Koreaâs verifiable nuclear dismantlement,ââ he said. ``Taking a broader view of the matter, which needed a negotiated settlement, we accepted the balanced expression of confirming the absence of nuclear weapons in our territory.ââ
A detailed action plan to realize a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula will be discussed when the next round of the talks resume this month, Ban said.
The two Koreas, the U.S., Russia, Japan and host China agreed to hold the fifth round of the six-party talks in Beijing in early November 2005 at a date to be determined through consultations.
INTELLIGENCE agencies have received specific information about a terrorist threat to Australia which today prompted the Government to rush through its anti-terror laws to help avert a possible attack.
Prime Minister John Howard said intelligence agencies had received specific information about a terrorist threat and was urging Parliament to enact the laws within 36 hours.
"We have seen material," Mr Howard said. "It is a cause of concern."
The Prime Minister would not give details on the nature of the threat, citing security reasons.
"The Government is acting against the background of the assessment of intelligence agencies that a terrorist attack in Australia is feasible and could well occur," he said, referring to an ASIO report released yesterday.
"In ASIO's recently released annual report a warning is contained that specifically cites the threat of home-grown terrorism. ASIO also warned that attacks without warning are feasible," Mr Howard said.
The amendment will add further grounds for listing militant organisations and "will clarify that it is not necessary for the prosecution to identify a specific terrorist act."
National security editor of The Australian, Patrick Walters, said Mr Howard's statement pointed to "an imminent threat to Australians".
"We know that ASIO and the AFP have been monitoring a number of people considered high security risks for a long period of time," Walters said. "But clearly this takes things to a new level."
The requirement for urgent laws, Walters said, "indicates (the Government) has far more precise intelligence relating to a group or an individual wanting to carry out a terrorist attack".
Part of the new anti-terror laws will be introduced to Parliament today and the Senate is to be recalled.
Mr Howard said he had briefed Opposition Leader Kim Beazley and Opposition homeland security spokesman Arch Bevis.
"After question time today, the Attorney-General will introduce into the House an urgent amendment to the existing counter terrorism legislation," Mr Howard said.
"We will seek passage of that amendment through all stages this evening.
"The President of the Senate will recall the Senate to meet tomorrow afternoon at 2pm and it's the Government's wish that this amendment be passed into law as soon as possible."
Mr Howard said he had not yet received any information that would require a change in the general terror threat level for Australia.
"If we received advice to that effect, which we have not received, we would respond appropriately to that advice," he said.
Mr Howard said he could not comment further about the information he received and would not say whether the intelligence advice had come from Australian or other authorities.
"We have been given advice that if this amendment is enacted as soon as possible the capacity of the authorities to respond will be strengthened.
"And I am satisfied on what I have been told, and the Government and the national security ministers in Cabinet are satisfied, that that is the case but I do not intend and cannot and will not go into any of the operational details."
More to come...
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Australian terror laws to pass within 36 hrs after National threat revealed
Excellent News [not the threat part], thank you Prime Minister John Howard. Even when the 5th columnist in both our countries ratchet up the sabotage, Muslim Murder Inc. can be counted on to gift us a few blunders.
Posted by: Red Dog ||
11/02/2005 2:46 Comments ||
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When are the EUs going to say, "enough is enough" and deport them all?"
Lately, the moslem-led riots now running for four days straight in France have been given a great deal of attention, fex from the BBC:
France's Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has promised to step up security after violence flared for a fourth night in a Paris suburb.
Six policemen were hurt and 11 people arrested in the latest clashes with youths in Clichy-sous-Bois, although it was calmer than on previous nights.
Not that well covered is a very similar series of riots, also running for four days, in à rhus, Denmark. Nothing of it has penetrated to the english-language sections of Danish media, so the following is my translation of a piece in daily Jyllands-Posten:
RosenhÞj Mall has several nights in a row been the scene of the worst riots in à rhus for years. "This area belongs to us", the youths proclaim. Sunday evening saw a new arson attack. All your base are belong to us!
Their words sound like a clear declaration of war on the Danish society. Police must stay out. The area belongs to immigrants. It's fish or cut bait, time.
Four youths sit on the wall in RosenhÞj Mall sunday afternoon, calling themselves spokesmen for the groups, that three nights in a row have ravaged and tried to burn down the restaurant and other stores. You can't outrun a 9MM.
Around the parking lot, cars with youngsters from the immigrant community are swarming, and many are walking around, greeting each others with a sense of victory after the worst riots in à rhus in years. Islamo-cockroaches will take it all if you let them.
Every night 30-40 youts took part, especially immigrants.
Only two were arrested.
That was a victory.
"We knew, you would be coming. We are spokesmen", said a young man with a black knitted hood on his head, when JP (Jyllands-Posten - Henrik) visited RosenhÞj Mall sunday. He was angry. Very angry. Behind him the pub Hot Shot has scars after the attacks with cobble stones, and the stores along the parking lot besides the small mall have their windows covered with adhesive tape in a spiderweb pattern.
A window had been shattered at the back of the house, and the fire had been blazing, apparently because of gasoline poured onto the floor, then lit.
Falck stopped on Viby Square, a couple kilometers from the site of the arson attack, waiting for the police to turn up so they could be escorted to the nursery. Two nights earlier, other Falck-employees were threatened, when they were covering up broken shop-windows.
Cobblestones had smashed the shop-windows from one end of the mall to the other. The police wrote in their report saturday night, that the youths had their stones with them in bags, when they came to RosenhÞj.
Cobblestones against bakery.
Saturday morning a 16-year-old somali boy was incarcerated, accused of aggravated assault, as he friday evening threw a cobblestone through a window in the bakery. The stone passed closely by baker BÞrge SvalÞs face. ..
He calls himself 100 percent Palestinian, born in a refugee camp in Lebanon 19 years ago, and now out of work in Denmark.
"The police has to stay away. This is our area. We decide what goes down here". Come to my neck of the woods. I promise I will not be as hospitable.
And then the bit with the drawings of the prophet Muhammed comes around: Drawings of him with little girls, or sheep.
We are tired of what we see happening with our prophet. Me, too. Too much good press. We are tired of Jyllands-Posten. I know it isnt you, but we wont accept what Jyllands-Posten has done to the prophet", he says aggressively, and the others nod approvingly.Is that prophet or profit?
Planned for three weeks
To of them are Turks, and it is the first time, that Turks and Palestinians act together, the 19-year-old says.
"We have planned this for three weeks. That is why only two were arrested saturday nigh. The police will cordon off it all. But we know the ways out", he claims, and then disappears, munching on a piece of pizza from Fun Pizza. Good old middle eastern food. probably has sausage on it.
The pizzerias windows are also held together by adhesive tape after the attacks with cobblestones. what does the profit mo-ham-head say about theft?
Of course, it isnt of the size the Paris riots have, but then France is 10 times larger than Denmark, population-wise, and has 25 times more moslems.
Its not just Paris. Coming soon to a city near you.
#1
Shoot a few down and things will calm down quickly. Round all illegals/jihadis up and deport them within 30 days. Explain than Denmark is for Danes and you are guests who can become unwelcome. Things will get very calm.
Or, follow the EU/Dhimmi/democrat way of appeasement and accomodation (i.e. weakness so strong it smiles and says "fuck me") and watch this small fire become a conflaguration.
#2
I think part of the EUnich problem is a disarmed populace. If any muzzies tried that shit here in Texas, there would be lead flying. And it wouldn't be cops doing the shooting, it would be citizens.
#3
It will be interesting to see what happens after the riots are over. Will the govt come in and rebuild, and play the victims and environment game? Basically, throw money away. Or will they shut off the spigot and cordon off the area and let it rot and deport the troublemakers? A softie approach will send a message to the rioters that it be cool to break things and burn baby burn.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
11/02/2005 22:47 Comments ||
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#4
Hmmmmm, "war" at roughly the same time that Russia and Finland are having a naval dispute ditto wid China-Japan on the other side of the world.
With Egyptian mangos and Surinamese prawns stacked alongside Dutch cheeses, the vast open-air Hague Market and its crowds of immigrant shoppers are a multicultural picture that used to make the Netherlands proud. Today, a year after the gruesome murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a Muslim extremist, pride has given way to tension and suspicion.
Van Gogh was shot, stabbed and nearly decapitated Nov. 2, 2004, because of a film that 27-year-old Mohammed Bouyeri, a Dutchman born to Moroccan parents, regarded as insulting to Islam. In the month of violent reactions that followed, authorities counted 174 bias attacks, 47 of them on mosques and 13 on Christian churches.
"You can still feel the difference on the streets," said Marc Verwaal, 17, an ethnic Dutchman on neighborhood watch in the immigrant neighborhood around the Hague Market. "There is more tension and people are on edge."
The sense of old certainties crumbling was first felt in May 2003 with the shooting of Pim Fortuyn, a gay, populist politician who stridently accused Muslims of maltreating women and homosexuals. Although the killer was an animal rights extremist whose motives were unrelated to anything Islamic, the murder triggered anger against Muslims and led to a government crackdown on illegal immigrants.
It was Van Gogh's slaying, by a Muslim born and raised here, that was burned into the Dutch minds as the country's own version of 9/11.
Now, in a nation that used to feel so safe that high-ranking officials and royalty got around on bicycles, two prominent lawmakers have been driven into hiding because of their criticism of radical Islam.
The country's 1 million Muslims feel unfairly targeted by the anti-terrorism measures that followed Van Gogh's slaying â looser rules on wiretaps and evidence admissible in court, police powers to conduct searches without apparent cause and hold suspects for longer periods without charge.
Authorities say they are tracking hundreds of young Muslims who may be inclined to violence against a society they reject. Police have detained dozens of North Africans suspected of plotting terrorist attacks in the past 12 months, and have alleged the existence of a conspiratorial terrorist group known as the Hofstad Network.
Though tension has been rising across Europe since 9/11, worsened by terrorist bombings in Madrid in 2004 and London last July, it's all the more striking in the Netherlands, a country renowned for its tolerance of soft drugs, immigrants and same-sex marriages.
After the Van Gogh killing "we got a hard smack in the face," said Mohammed Ousalah, a Moroccan-born imam, or Muslim preacher. "We notice the hardening against us, not just in the general sense, but with specific things: the mosque burnings, the racist remarks."
Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen says his top priority after the murder was "keeping things from falling apart" in a city of 170 nationalities.
The number of racial attacks has dropped sharply since that violent November, but the distrust festers. "Muslims, for example and to my regret, are having a tougher time finding jobs and internships," said Cohen.
Bouyeri targeted the director after he made a short film depicting ill treatment of women in Muslim households. A letter he pinned to Van Gogh's chest with the murder knife threatened more attacks. In court, before being jailed for life, he further dismayed the nation by refusing to express remorse, saying he would do it again, and telling Van Gogh's family: "I don't feel your pain."
And the scene at the market in the Hague, 25 miles from Amsterdam, seems to accentuate a mood of drawing apart. About 80-90 percent of its 40,000 weekly shoppers are nonwestern immigrants, making the few ethnic Dutch vendors feel increasingly isolated.
Fatima, a young Turkish woman selling soap and cleaning products, said the conservative government's tough response hurts honest, hardworking immigrants.
"Van Gogh insulted the Prophet Muhammad, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go out and kill him," said the woman, who declined to give her full name.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/02/2005 01:49 ||
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#1
Where Hitler failed, murdering raghead whacko's have succeeded. The average, garden varity Dutchman would much rather have lunch with a German than a Muslim. Theo's murder and the continued policy of nearly unrestricted immigration has not gone down well.
The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement.
The secret facility is part of a covert prison system set up by the CIA nearly four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries, including Thailand, Afghanistan and several democracies in Eastern Europe, as well as a small center at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, according to current and former intelligence officials and diplomats from three continents.
The hidden global internment network is a central element in the CIA's unconventional war on terrorism. It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the CIA's covert actions.
The existence and locations of the facilities -- referred to as "black sites" in classified White House, CIA, Justice Department and congressional documents -- are known to only a handful of officials in the United States and, usually, only to the president and a few top intelligence officers in each host country.
The CIA and the White House, citing national security concerns and the value of the program, have dissuaded Congress from demanding that the agency answer questions in open testimony about the conditions under which captives are held. Virtually nothing is known about who is kept in the facilities, what interrogation methods are employed with them, or how decisions are made about whether they should be detained or for how long.
While the Defense Department has produced volumes of public reports and testimony about its detention practices and rules after the abuse scandals at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at Guantanamo Bay, the CIA has not even acknowledged the existence of its black sites. To do so, say officials familiar with the program, could open the U.S. government to legal challenges, particularly in foreign courts, and increase the risk of political condemnation at home and abroad.
But the revelations of widespread prisoner abuse in Afghanistan and Iraq by the U.S. military -- which operates under published rules and transparent oversight of Congress -- have increased concern among lawmakers, foreign governments and human rights groups about the opaque CIA system. Those concerns escalated last month, when Vice President Cheney and CIA Director Porter J. Goss asked Congress to exempt CIA employees from legislation already endorsed by 90 senators that would bar cruel and degrading treatment of any prisoner in U.S. custody.
Although the CIA will not acknowledge details of its system, intelligence officials defend the agency's approach, arguing that the successful defense of the country requires that the agency be empowered to hold and interrogate suspected terrorists for as long as necessary and without restrictions imposed by the U.S. legal system or even by the military tribunals established for prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay.
The Washington Post is not publishing the names of the Eastern European countries involved in the covert program, at the request of senior U.S. officials. They argued that the disclosure might disrupt counterterrorism efforts in those countries and elsewhere and could make them targets of possible terrorist retaliation.
The secret detention system was conceived in the chaotic and anxious first months after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, when the working assumption was that a second strike was imminent.
Since then, the arrangement has been increasingly debated within the CIA, where considerable concern lingers about the legality, morality and practicality of holding even unrepentant terrorists in such isolation and secrecy, perhaps for the duration of their lives. Mid-level and senior CIA officers began arguing two years ago that the system was unsustainable and diverted the agency from its unique espionage mission.
"We never sat down, as far as I know, and came up with a grand strategy," said one former senior intelligence officer who is familiar with the program but not the location of the prisons. "Everything was very reactive. That's how you get to a situation where you pick people up, send them into a netherworld and don't say, 'What are we going to do with them afterwards?' "
It is illegal for the government to hold prisoners in such isolation in secret prisons in the United States, which is why the CIA placed them overseas, according to several former and current intelligence officials and other U.S. government officials. Legal experts and intelligence officials said that the CIA's internment practices also would be considered illegal under the laws of several host countries, where detainees have rights to have a lawyer or to mount a defense against allegations of wrongdoing.
Host countries have signed the U.N. Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, as has the United States. Yet CIA interrogators in the overseas sites are permitted to use the CIA's approved "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," some of which are prohibited by the U.N. convention and by U.S. military law. They include tactics such as "waterboarding," in which a prisoner is made to believe he or she is drowning.
Some detainees apprehended by the CIA and transferred to foreign intelligence agencies have alleged after their release that they were tortured, although it is unclear whether CIA personnel played a role in the alleged abuse. Given the secrecy surrounding CIA detentions, such accusations have heightened concerns among foreign governments and human rights groups about CIA detention and interrogation practices.
The contours of the CIA's detention program have emerged in bits and pieces over the past two years. Parliaments in Canada, Italy, France, Sweden and the Netherlands have opened inquiries into alleged CIA operations that secretly captured their citizens or legal residents and transferred them to the agency's prisons.
More than 100 suspected terrorists have been sent by the CIA into the covert system, according to current and former U.S. intelligence officials and foreign sources. This figure, a rough estimate based on information from sources who said their knowledge of the numbers was incomplete, does not include prisoners picked up in Iraq.
The detainees break down roughly into two classes, the sources said.
About 30 are considered major terrorism suspects and have been held under the highest level of secrecy at black sites financed by the CIA and managed by agency personnel, including those in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, according to current and former intelligence officers and two other U.S. government officials. Two locations in this category -- in Thailand and on the grounds of the military prison at Guantanamo Bay -- were closed in 2003 and 2004, respectively.
A second tier -- which these sources believe includes more than 70 detainees -- is a group considered less important, with less direct involvement in terrorism and having limited intelligence value. These prisoners, some of whom were originally taken to black sites, are delivered to intelligence services in Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Afghanistan and other countries, a process sometimes known as "rendition." While the first-tier black sites are run by CIA officers, the jails in these countries are operated by the host nations, with CIA financial assistance and, sometimes, direction.
Morocco, Egypt and Jordan have said that they do not torture detainees, although years of State Department human rights reports accuse all three of chronic prisoner abuse.
The top 30 al Qaeda prisoners exist in complete isolation from the outside world. Kept in dark, sometimes underground cells, they have no recognized legal rights, and no one outside the CIA is allowed to talk with or even see them, or to otherwise verify their well-being, said current and former and U.S. and foreign government and intelligence officials.
Most of the facilities were built and are maintained with congressionally appropriated funds, but the White House has refused to allow the CIA to brief anyone except the chairman and vice chairman of the House and Senate intelligence committees on the program's generalities.
The Eastern European countries that the CIA has persuaded to hide al Qaeda captives are democracies that have embraced the rule of law and individual rights after decades of Soviet domination. Each has been trying to cleanse its intelligence services of operatives who have worked on behalf of others -- mainly Russia and organized crime.
The idea of holding terrorists outside the U.S. legal system was not under consideration before Sept. 11, 2001, not even for Osama bin Laden, according to former government officials. The plan was to bring bin Laden and his top associates into the U.S. justice system for trial or to send them to foreign countries where they would be tried.
"The issue of detaining and interrogating people was never, ever discussed," said a former senior intelligence officer who worked in the CIA's Counterterrorist Center, or CTC, during that period. "It was against the culture and they believed information was best gleaned by other means."
On the day of the attacks, the CIA already had a list of what it called High-Value Targets from the al Qaeda structure, and as the World Trade Center and Pentagon attack plots were unraveled, more names were added to the list. The question of what to do with these people surfaced quickly.
The CTC's chief of operations argued for creating hit teams of case officers and CIA paramilitaries that would covertly infiltrate countries in the Middle East, Africa and even Europe to assassinate people on the list, one by one.
But many CIA officers believed that the al Qaeda leadership would be worth keeping alive to interrogate about their network and other plots. Some officers worried that the CIA would not be very adept at assassination.
"We'd probably shoot ourselves," another former senior CIA official said.
The agency set up prisons under its covert action authority. Under U.S. law, only the president can authorize a covert action, by signing a document called a presidential finding. Findings must not break U.S. law and are reviewed and approved by CIA, Justice Department and White House legal advisers.
Six days after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush signed a sweeping finding that gave the CIA broad authorization to disrupt terrorist activity, including permission to kill, capture and detain members of al Qaeda anywhere in the world.
It could not be determined whether Bush approved a separate finding for the black-sites program, but the consensus among current and former intelligence and other government officials interviewed for this article is that he did not have to.
Rather, they believe that the CIA general counsel's office acted within the parameters of the Sept. 17 finding. The black site program was approved by a small circle of White House and Justice Department lawyers and officials, according to several former and current U.S. government and intelligence officials.
Among the first steps was to figure out where the CIA could secretly hold the captives. One early idea was to keep them on ships in international waters, but that was discarded for security and logistics reasons.
CIA officers also searched for a setting like Alcatraz Island. They considered the virtually unvisited islands in Lake Kariba in Zambia, which were edged with craggy cliffs and covered in woods. But poor sanitary conditions could easily lead to fatal diseases, they decided, and besides, they wondered, could the Zambians be trusted with such a secret?
Still without a long-term solution, the CIA began sending suspects it captured in the first month or so after Sept. 11 to its longtime partners, the intelligence services of Egypt and Jordan.
A month later, the CIA found itself with hundreds of prisoners who were captured on battlefields in Afghanistan. A short-term solution was improvised. The agency shoved its highest-value prisoners into metal shipping containers set up on a corner of the Bagram Air Base, which was surrounded with a triple perimeter of concertina-wire fencing. Most prisoners were left in the hands of the Northern Alliance, U.S.-supported opposition forces who were fighting the Taliban.
"I remember asking: What are we going to do with these people?" said a senior CIA officer. "I kept saying, where's the help? We've got to bring in some help. We can't be jailers -- our job is to find Osama."
Then came grisly reports, in the winter of 2001, that prisoners kept by allied Afghan generals in cargo containers had died of asphyxiation. The CIA asked Congress for, and was quickly granted, tens of millions of dollars to establish a larger, long-term system in Afghanistan, parts of which would be used for CIA prisoners.
The largest CIA prison in Afghanistan was code-named the Salt Pit. It was also the CIA's substation and was first housed in an old brick factory outside Kabul. In November 2002, an inexperienced CIA case officer allegedly ordered guards to strip naked an uncooperative young detainee, chain him to the concrete floor and leave him there overnight without blankets. He froze to death, according to four U.S. government officials. The CIA officer has not been charged in the death.
The Salt Pit was protected by surveillance cameras and tough Afghan guards, but the road leading to it was not safe to travel and the jail was eventually moved inside Bagram Air Base. It has since been relocated off the base.
By mid-2002, the CIA had worked out secret black site deals with two countries, including Thailand and one Eastern European nation, current and former officials said. An estimated $100 million was tucked inside the classified annex of the first supplemental Afghanistan appropriation.
Then the CIA captured its first big detainee, in March 28, 2002. Pakistani forces took Abu Zubaida, al Qaeda's operations chief, into custody and the CIA whisked him to the new black site in Thailand, which included underground interrogation cells, said several former and current intelligence officials. Six months later, Sept. 11 planner Ramzi Binalshibh was also captured in Pakistan and flown to Thailand.
But after published reports revealed the existence of the site in June 2003, Thai officials insisted the CIA shut it down, and the two terrorists were moved elsewhere, according to former government officials involved in the matter. Work between the two countries on counterterrorism has been lukewarm ever since.
In late 2002 or early 2003, the CIA brokered deals with other countries to establish black-site prisons. One of these sites -- which sources said they believed to be the CIA's biggest facility now -- became particularly important when the agency realized it would have a growing number of prisoners and a shrinking number of prisons.
Thailand was closed, and sometime in 2004 the CIA decided it had to give up its small site at Guantanamo Bay. The CIA had planned to convert that into a state-of-the-art facility, operated independently of the military. The CIA pulled out when U.S. courts began to exercise greater control over the military detainees, and agency officials feared judges would soon extend the same type of supervision over their detainees.
In hindsight, say some former and current intelligence officials, the CIA's problems were exacerbated by another decision made within the Counterterrorist Center at Langley.
The CIA program's original scope was to hide and interrogate the two dozen or so al Qaeda leaders believed to be directly responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks, or who posed an imminent threat, or had knowledge of the larger al Qaeda network. But as the volume of leads pouring into the CTC from abroad increased, and the capacity of its paramilitary group to seize suspects grew, the CIA began apprehending more people whose intelligence value and links to terrorism were less certain, according to four current and former officials.
The original standard for consigning suspects to the invisible universe was lowered or ignored, they said. "They've got many, many more who don't reach any threshold," one intelligence official said.
Several former and current intelligence officials, as well as several other U.S. government officials with knowledge of the program, express frustration that the White House and the leaders of the intelligence community have not made it a priority to decide whether the secret internment program should continue in its current form, or be replaced by some other approach.
Meanwhile, the debate over the wisdom of the program continues among CIA officers, some of whom also argue that the secrecy surrounding the program is not sustainable.
"It's just a horrible burden," said the intelligence official.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/02/2005 00:22 ||
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#2
Hunt the people who let this out down and do a number on them. It is treason to even talk about it. The Washington Post needs to be bought out shut down.
#3
Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin ||
11/02/2005 3:46 Comments ||
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#4
There's probably some truth to the notion that it's a tough choice to figure out who is who and worth what possible intel value. The "safe" option, if your superiors are control or blame freaks - and the CIA surely has a super dose of both - is to keep almost everybody, just in case. Sucks to work for ass-coverage specialists... The premium approach: "hire good people, train them up by teaming with experienced operators, and then delegate authority commensurate with responsibility" doesn't describe many Govt agencies - other than the military under the rank of LTC, lol.
As for this story making it into print, I prefer hunter / killer teams.
#5
Hunt the people who let this out down and do a number on them. It is treason to even talk about it.
Silly -- it's only treason when it makes Democrats look bad!
The Washington Post needs to be bought out shut down.
Why buy them out? Criminal prosecutions all around, starting with treason charges for everyone involved with this story, should do the job quite nicely.
And, sorry, but there's no way this isn't treason. Revealing classified means and capabilities is giving aid and comfort, and doing so in the fricking newspaper does quite a good job of establishing the two witnesses or admission in court requirement.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/02/2005 7:44 Comments ||
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#6
but there's no way this isn't treason. Revealing classified means and capabilities is giving aid and comfort, and doing so in the fricking newspaper does quite a good job of establishing the two witnesses or admission in court requirement.
Agreed!! It might teach them to stay the Fuck out of the intel business!!
#9
My concern is how will the ACLU, Red Crecent, and CNN get gate passes? I hope these facilities are seperate from existing Russian prisions, which have become medical Chernobyl's, incubators for HIV and multidrug-resistant strains of tuberculoisis. Catching and then releasing those buggers back into ME society would certainly be a tragedy.
#12
No, of course this isn't treason. Revealing the name of a no-longer-covert agent, why, that's treason!
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/02/2005 12:52 Comments ||
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#13
The CTC's chief of operations argued for creating hit teams of case officers and CIA paramilitaries that would covertly infiltrate countries in the Middle East, Africa and even Europe to assassinate people on the list, one by one.
Go ahead, save the high-level operatives for wringing dry at a later date. But don't let that stop you from exterminating all the rest of the non-operations propagandists (i.e., imams).
Whoever leaked this ought to join the detainees for an extended stay.
#14
I heard rhe journalist who wrote this interviewed on NPR this afternoon. She got the information from CIA officers current and former, and it was her editor that decided not to print the names of the sites or the countries in which they are situated. Director Goss has further work to do cleaning out the CIA, I think. Such issues should not be resolved by press leaks.
#15
I heard rhe journalist who wrote this interviewed on NPR this afternoon. She got the information from CIA officers current and former
So why isn't she in front of a grand jury or sitting in a prison for contempt? There's no shield law protecting criminals, and that's exactly what her sources are.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/02/2005 18:36 Comments ||
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#16
Bah. She named a bunch of facilities that have been closed for a long time. Big deal.
I'm sure we've got replacement facilities up and running, and when they're outed they'll move again.
That said, I agree with Jating Omunter5399: All interrogations should be conducted on the battlefield. No prisoners should be taken. Release or execute on the spot.
Much less management hassle that way, with a minimal loss of intel.
Turkey will have two years to eliminate torture, establish freedom of religion and assert civilian control over the military if it wants to become a European Union member in 10 years, The Financial Times reported on Tuesday.
"Hurry and hand me that truncheon, wouldja? The deadline's almost here and I ain't near done with this guy!"
The British newspaper said it had seen a draft in which the European Commission will this month give Turkey a checklist of a nearly 150 short-term tasks for becoming an EU member. The draft document is aimed at easing EU voters' concerns about Turkey's potential membership. Turkey within the next year or two will have to "ensure implementation ... of the 'zero tolerance' policy against torture" and "to adopt a law comprehensively addressing all the difficulties faced by non-Muslim religious minorities and communities," the daily said, citing the draft.
It added that during the same period the country must "establish full parliamentary oversight of military and defense policy," "abolish any remaining competence of military courts to try civilians" and "ensure the independence of the judiciary," the daily reported. The draft fills in the gaps left by last month's decision to begin membership talks with Ankara, it said.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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That the EU talks everything to death is also torture.
#2
Turkey will have two years to eliminate torture,..
Please state your definition of "torture".
The British newspaper said it had seen a draft in which the European Commission will this month give Turkey a checklist of a nearly 150 short-term tasks for becoming an EU member.
Violence has erupted for a sixth night in the troubled suburbs northeast of Paris, with police firing rubber bullets and tear gas as they faced down gangs of youths in Aulnay-sous-Bois. A store was set on fire in the nearby suburb of Bondy, France-Info radio reported on Tuesday. No trouble was immediately reported in Clichy-sous-Bois, where rioting began on Thursday after the accidental deaths of two teenagers.
An Associated Press Television news team reported confrontations between about 20 police and 40 youths in Aulnay-sous-Bois, with police firing tear gas and rubber bullets. Youths lobbed Molotov cocktails at an annex to the town hall and threw stones at the firehouse. It was not known whether the clashes led to injuries. Four people were arrested for throwing stones at police in Bondy where 14 cars were burned, the prefecture said. A fire engulfed a carpet store, but it was not known whether the blaze was linked to the suburban unrest.
Officials gave an initial count of 69 vehicles torched in nine suburbs across the Seine-Saint-Denis region that arcs around Paris on the north and northeast. The area, home mainly to families of immigrant origin, most of them from Muslim North Africa, is marked by soaring unemployment and delinquency. Officials said "small, very mobile gangs" were harassing police and setting fires to garbage cans and vehicles throughout the region. France-Info said about 150 fires were burning in suburbs of the Seine-Saint-Denis region.
Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy - blamed by many for fanning the violence with tough talk and harsh tactics - met in Paris with youths and officials from Clichy-sous-Bois in an effort to end days of rioting. But the unrest spread even as they met.
Might one suggest sending in the riot coppers to aggressively club the yoots on their pointy little beturbanned heads and toss them into the Bastille? Then you could aggressively hunt down the ringleaders and do terrible things to them. Just think of them as Albigensians or Huguenots.
Do they not have a single working guillotine?
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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Fools. The ROE is designed for civil opponents. Doesn't work against animals.
#3
One: shoot the rioters down in the streets. Two: deport their surviving family members back to Islamic country of origin within 72 hours. The immediate problem will stop in a hurry. The longer-term problem will take mass deportations, and the sooner the French get started, the better.
Posted by: mac ||
11/02/2005 2:12 Comments ||
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#4
The longer-term problem will take mass deportations, and the sooner the French get started, the better.
Disagree. In order for western Europe to survive, at least one nation is going to have to bear the brunt and stand as an example of what will happen to the rest if they don't address these issues directly and forcefully. Personally I can't think of a nation more deserving of being that example than France.
#9
So, after 6 days, most riots do not last 3, is there a plan, is there a leadership directing events?
Interesting question. Viking Observer, reporting on four-days of rioting in Denmark, has an interesting quote from one of the rioters:
"We have planned this for three weeks. That is why only two were arrested saturday night. The police will cordon off it all. But we know the ways out", he claims, and then disappears, munching on a piece of pizza from Fun Pizza.
That it's simultaneous in France and Denmark is also interesting.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/02/2005 8:27 Comments ||
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#10
The BBC has Sarkozy saying When you fire real bullets at police, you're not a 'youth', you're a thug
#12
How about an AC130 taking a roll down the main drag in Aulnay-sous-Bois...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
11/02/2005 9:38 Comments ||
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#13
Roger Roger #12, We'll stay on station...we've got enough fuel and ammo for two more passes down the ASB. This sure beats the hell out of the Paris Air Show.
#16
Fjordman thinks its gonna be Sweden.
I think Dutch cities (Rotterdam, Hauge first) will go Sharia first and drive the native Dutch into the coutryside.
Posted by: ed ||
11/02/2005 11:50 Comments ||
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#17
The socialists are having a field's day (calling Sarkozy a "front national copycat", and saying the authorities should stop antagonizing thoses "fragile populations", lol), and so are the Dominique Galouzeau "de Villepin" (who's a man)'s boyz... the trophy arab "solidarity and equality of chances minister" (sic) Azouz Begag is targetting Sarkozy too, for the greater pleasure of Shiraq.
Again, it's business as usual, the undeclared french intifada goes on, and not only in clichy.
As a sidenote, the France 2 teevee news had "mediators" (kinda "peace envoys") going through the streets trying to calm "youths"... shouting the sweet melody of "Allah U akbar". I wonder what the "gauls" still living in there are thinking?
The gvt has lost the situation a long time ago (this has been going on since the 90's and worsening by the year), the authorites are overhelmed, even what is overall a minot surge cannot be managed, and is in permanent appeasement mode; the second Shiraq mandate has been marked with the start of the power-sharing with muslims, and continouus gestures toward islam, to get peace... before it was "limited" to subsidies and benefit aimed at placating the restless "suburbs".
As the muslim population increase, the pressure to get a share of France 's sovereignty increases as well.
Don't fool yourselves, I'm something of a nationalist, my heart bleeds for France and for the ordinary french folks, especially the ones having to endure insecurity, torched cars, assaults, antiwhite prejudice, racist gangrapes,... but frankly official France has built herself an "occupied territories" problem, all the while selling herself to islam (Eurabia) and so antagonizing Israel, that "shitty little country" which may very well outlast france in this 21st century...
This is hilarious! There is asaying in french stating that "the fish rots starting with its head"; in the case of modern-day France, this is so true, our Enlightened and Progressive (but totally corrupt and inept) Elites truly have led us to disaster.
Posted by: Jan ||
11/02/2005 12:31 Comments ||
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France should consider inviting the Iranian mullahs to live there in exile. Sheltering Khomeini worked out so well that this could be the big breakthrough they're looking for.
#22
The French should not shoot them. If you shoot them the rioting stops and the troublemakers wait for their next opportunity.
If they are French citizens they should be tried for Treason and locked up for a long time and forbidden any government assistance when they are released. If they are non-French or say they are 100% Palestinian (renouncing French citizenship) they should be deported to Algeria.
#24
the ending of welfare/financial support should greet the riots and cleaning house - mass deportations. Send the f&ckers back to their paradise shitholes
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/02/2005 20:55 Comments ||
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It's "Drive Out the Bush Regime" day, all moonbats, all day.
The Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime
Your government, on the basis of outrageous lies, is waging a murderous and utterly illegitimate war in Iraq, with other countries in their sights.
Note to Rantburg readers: lay off Syria for a day or two, I think they're on to us.
Your government is openly torturing people, and justifying it.
"Mahmoud! We're so happy you're home from that evil Gitmo place where they tortured you. But my, how did you gain all that weight?"
Your government puts people in jail on the merest suspicion, refusing them lawyers, and either holding them indefinitely or deporting them in the dead of night.
And we have a spot on the secret Ashkkkroft camps in Idaho just for you, so you'd better shaddup.
Your government is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule.
"Some one's crying, Lord, KUM BAY A ..."
Your government suppresses the science that doesn't fit its religious, political and economic agenda, forcing present and future generations to pay a terrible price.
Rats, there goes my new grant ...
Your government is moving to deny women here, and all over the world, the right to birth control and abortion.
'cause we want to keep 'em pregnant, barefoot and ...
Your government enforces a culture of greed, bigotry, intolerance and ignorance.
And a majority of the country voted them in, so your protest is going to be kinda lonely ...
People look at all this and think of Hitler â and they are right to do so. The Bush regime is setting out to radically remake society very quickly, in a fascist way, and for generations to come. We must act now; the future is in the balance.
Never takes long to invoke Hitler. For some reason they never invoke Stalin ...
Millions and millions are deeply disturbed and outraged by this.
And they know three or four of them personally.
They recognize the need for a vehicle to express this outrage, yet they cannot find it; politics as usual cannot meet the enormity of the challenge, and people sense this.
Yep, the ballot box, political parties, rallies, giant puppets, bared breasts, and dropped shorts just don't say what needs to be said ...
There is not going to be some magical "pendulum swing." People who steal elections and believe they're on a "mission from God" will not go without a fight.
No, no, certainly not!
There is not going to be some savior from the Democratic Party.
Sorry, Hillary, looks like the white robe trick isn't working ...
This whole idea of putting our hopes and energies into "leaders" who tell us to seek common ground with fascists and religious fanatics is proving every day to be a disaster, and actually serves to demobilize people.
'cause there's only one truth, and it theirs, ya know.
But silence and paralysis are NOT acceptable. That which you will not resist and mobilize to stop, you will learn â or be forced â to accept. There is no escaping it: the whole disastrous course of this Bush regime must be STOPPED. And we must take the responsibility to do it.
Since the majority of voters strangely refused to do so ...
And there is a way.
First, send us money.
We are talking about something on a scale that can really make a huge change in this country and in the world.
Second, smoke this. Wow, dude.
We need more than fighting Bush's outrages one at a time, constantly losing ground to the whole onslaught. We must, and can, aim to create a political situation where the Bush regime's program is repudiated, where Bush himself is driven from office, and where the whole direction he has been taking society is reversed. We, in our millions, must and can take responsibility to change the course of history.
And if you'll just wait to January 20, 2009, you'll get your wish. I sure President Rice will be more accommodating ...
To that end, on November 2, the first anniversary of Bush's "re-election", we will take the first major step in this by organizing a truly massive day of resistance all over this country.
Truly massive, now, sorta massive just isn't going to cut it.
People everywhere will walk out of school, they will take off work, they will come to the downtowns and town squares and set out from there, going through the streets and calling on many more to JOIN US.
And bring your giant puppets!
They will repudiate this criminal regime, making a powerful statement: "NO! THIS REGIME DOES NOT REPRESENT US! AND WE WILL DRIVE IT OUT!"
"After which we'll steal all the lightbulbs and go home!"
November 2 must be a massive and public proclamation that WE REFUSE TO BE RULED IN THIS WAY. November 2 must call out to the tens of millions more who are now agonizing and disgusted. November 2 will be the beginning â a giant first step in forcing Bush to step down, and a powerful announcement that we will not stop until he does so â and it will join with and give support and heart to people all over the globe who so urgently need and want this regime to be stopped.
It's really not for me to criticize your organizational skills, but you're on a tight time-line to get this done by noon today, doncha think?
This will not be easy. If we speak the truth, they will try to silence us. If we act, they will to try to stop us.
And it worked, too, 'cause there's no one standing in Daley Plaza, except the pidgeons.
But we speak for the majority, ...
... which is why you lost the election ...
... here and around the world, and as we get this going we are going to reach out to the people who have been so badly fooled by Bush and we are NOT going to stop.
Oh great, more spam e-mail.
The point is on top of our heads this: history is full of examples where people who had right on their side fought against tremendous odds and were victorious. And it is also full of examples of people passively hoping to wait it out, only to get swallowed up by a horror beyond what they ever imagined. The future is unwritten. WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US.
Okay, so they're not Calvinists.
These next days are crucial. The call you are reading has to get out to millions right away â on the internet, passed out as flyers in communities, published as ads in newspapers. DO NOT WAIT!! GET ORGANIZED!! If you agree with this statement, add your name to it!!! And do more than that: send it to friends, get them to sign it, organize a meeting, take it to your church, your school, your union, your health club, your barber shop, to concerts and libraries and family gatherings, everywhere you go. Raise money, lots of money. Get people together, make plans to be there on November 2, and to build for it.
Natter everywhere! Mutter to yourself while walkind down the street! You never know who will hear your wisdom!
The world can't wait! Drive out the Bush Regime! Mobilize for November 2!
I predict puppets
Very few puppets. The bare breasts may outnumber the puppets.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/02/2005 11:32 ||
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AND IN ADDITION TO THE ABOVE, DON'T FORGET TO JOIN THE DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE!
Posted by: Kelly ||
11/02/2005 12:42 Comments ||
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#9
It's the end, I tells ya! The END!!!
Washington D.C.
The rally has just started in Washington, DC.
Wayne Cotting (sp?), an abortion provider in DC who has been under attack for many years is just taking the mic to speaking about reproductive rights.
20 students from alternative school came as a field learning experience.
The Washington post, Reuters and other media are here, including Czech and Japanese TV.
There are 100-150 people here.
Nothing can stop them now!
Except maybe really good weed...
Wash DC--200 people and more coming in and out. Native American speaker Sarah James just spoke against the Alaska drilling in the arctic national wildlife refuge in Alaska and also performed a ritual song. Reverend Lennox Yearwood just arrived. At 1:20, people will be meeting at the center of Lafayette Park and then walking to the White House to serve notice. There were earlier performances by Guerrilla Poets.
#13
For people so concerned with fascism, they seemly oddly impervious to its actual existence on the other side of our current troubles.
Indeed, they seem utterly oblivious to any problem anywhere not stemming directly from the power-mongering schemes of the only villain they can imagine, the uber-criminal Bush.
These folks have read too much Chomsky and need to vary their intake. That may not do it, though. After a time the pathology may become organic.
Posted by: Baba Tutu ||
11/02/2005 14:18 Comments ||
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#14
You can't buy this sort of entertainment. Trouble is, most are only a half a neuron away from HarryNancyTedBarbara ReidPelosiKennedyBoxer.
#15
Rev. Lennox Yearwood, Jr. is an American minister, community activist, freedom fighter, and hip hop connoisseur. He has served as a White House intern under President Bill Clinton and currently serves as CEO of the Hip-Hop Caucus (H2C) in Washington, D.C..Rev. Yearwood also serves as a senior consultant for Russell Simmons' Hip Hop Summit Action Network, Sean "Diddy" Combs' Citizen Change (Vote or Die), and Jay-Z's Voice Your Voice.
#16
BT "... they seem utterly oblivious to any problem anywhere not stemming directly from the power-mongering schemes of the only villain they can imagine, the uber-criminal Bush. "
They are NOT oblivious!!!!!! According to them ALL problems stem directly from BUSH!!!!!
If Bush was even half as powerful as these fruitcakes think we would have a world-wide American empire long ago.
#17
I went past the demo here at the federal plaza in Chicago around 1:00 local time. Only about 100 or so moonbats and lots of cops (with 14 mounties). Seemed very boring from what I could see from across the street. *Yawn*
I was coming out of court at Daley Center, and there were a few cops in front of Thompson Center (State of Ill.), but no protestors to be found.
Posted by: Mark E. ||
11/02/2005 15:34 Comments ||
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#21
If you read more of their updates, this looks like the Lefty version of Senior Skip Day.
I sure hope that, by the end of the day, that Bush can survive this...
An anti-war group is planning a citywide students' walkout today, the anniversary of President Bush's re-election. Students from more than 25 high schools in the region are expected to attend. Organizers from Youth Against War and Racism have been passing out fliers advocating the walkout and are hoping as many as 2,000 students show up to protest the Iraq war and military recruiting in schools. The plan is for students to leave their classes at noon and meet up at Westlake Center at 1 p.m. for the rally before marching to The Premier club, 1700 First Ave. S., for anti-war workshops, music and movies.
Dont forget the free drugs, weed, beer, and love....
I head the Seattle School District approved this 'protest'....
#23
Youth Against War (YAWs) - theys in favor of islamofascists, suicide bombers, killers of children, fatwas against infidels, wife beaters, honor killers, head rollers, intollerators, and the 8th century.
#25
One of the messengers I dispatch reported a protest at San Francisco's UN Plaza. It was large enough to delay his delivery for 15 minutes, but other than that I donât know how big it is.
Amusingly, San Franciscoâs UN Plaza is the foulest bum, pickpocket, and drug dealer infested part of the financial district. Symbolic, no?
#26
Rev. Lennox Yearwood, Jr. is an American minister, community activist, freedom fighter, and hip hop connoisseur. . . .
Only in America could you be an ordained minister, a freedom fighter, and still have the time and the opportunity to become a hip hop connoisseur. Is this a great country or what?
Posted by: Mike ||
11/02/2005 19:17 Comments ||
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#27
I'm still trying to get past a minister who describes his religion as "American." Perhaps it's one of those mail-order ordinations?
#28
The Commies and LeftSocs knew the Socialist Command/Centralized Economy didn't have enough, nor could earn enough, to support all of these Alternatists and aligned before and during the Cold War, so what makes them believe that Commie-controlled National "Fascism" or National Socialism will change it. Rest assured these will all be fairly, evenly and properly Gulagged, Executed, andor Silenced/Repressed once Fascist Amerika is "justified" unto Communism and OWG!?
What was the most important news out of Iraq last week?
That depends on what you consider "important." Do you see the war against radical Islam and Ba'athist fascism as the most urgent conflict of our time? Do you believe that replacing tyranny with democratic self-government is ultimately the only antidote to the poison that has made the Middle East so dangerous and violent? If so, you'll have no trouble identifying the most significant development in Iraq last week: the landslide victory of the new Iraqi Constitution.
The announcement on Oct. 25 that the first genuinely democratic national charter in Arab history had been approved by 79 percent of Iraqis was a major piece of good news. It confirmed the courage of Iraq's people and their hunger for freedom and decent governance. It advanced the US campaign to democratize a country that for 25 years had been misruled by a mass-murdering sociopath. It underscored the decision by Iraq's Sunnis, who had boycotted the parliamentary elections in January, to pursue their goals through ballots, not bullets. And it dealt a humiliating blow to the bombers and beheaders -- to the likes of Islamist butcher Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who earlier this year declared "a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy" and threatened to kill anyone who took part in the elections.
No question: If you think that defeating Islamofascism, extending liberty, and transforming the Middle East are important, it's safe to say you saw the ratification of the new constitution as the Iraqi news story of the week.
But that isn't how the mainstream media saw it.
Consider The Washington Post. On the morning after the results of the Iraqi referendum were announced, the Post's front page was dominated by a photograph, stretched across four columns, of three daughters at the funeral of their father, Lieutenant Colonel Leon James II, who had died from injuries suffered during a Sept. 26 bombing in Baghdad. Two accompanying stories, both above the fold, were headlined ''Military Has Lost 2,000 in Iraq" and "Bigger, Stronger, Homemade Bombs Now to Blame for Half of US Deaths." A nearby graphic -- "The Toll" -- divided the 2,000 deaths by type of military service -- active duty, National Guard, and Reserves.
From Page 1, the stories jumped to a two-page spread inside, where they were illustrated with more photographs, a series of drawings depicting roadside attacks, and a large US map showing where each fallen soldier was from. On a third inside page, meanwhile, another story was headlined "2,000th Death Marked by Silence and a Vow." It began: "Washington marked the 2,000th American fatality of the Iraq war with a moment of silence in the Senate, the reading of the names of the fallen from the House floor, new protests, and a solemn vow from President Bush not to 'rest or tire until the war on terror is won.' " Two photos appeared alongside, one of Bush and another of antiwar protester Cindy Sheehan. And to give the body count a local focus, there was yet another story ("War's Toll Leaves Baltimore in Mourning") plus four pictures of troops killed in Iraq.
The Post didn't ignore the Iraqi election results. A story appeared on Page A13 ("Sunnis Failed to Defeat Iraq Constitution"), along with a map breaking down the vote by province. But like other leading newspapers, including The New York Times, The Boston Globe, and the Los Angeles Times, it devoted vastly more attention to the 2,000-death "milestone," a statistic with no unique significance apart from the fact that it ends in round numbers.
Every death in Iraq is heartbreaking. The 2,000th fatality was neither more nor less meaningful than the 1,999 that preceded it. But if anything makes the death toll remarkable, it is how historically low it is. Considering what the war has accomplished so far -- the destruction of the region's bloodiest dictatorship, the liberation of 25 million Iraqis, the emergence of democratic politics, the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon, the abandonment by Libya of its nuclear weapons program -- it is hard to disagree with Norman Podhoretz, who notes in the current Commentary that these achievements have been "purchased at an astonishingly low cost in American blood when measured by the standards of every other war we have ever fought."
But that isn't a message Big Media cares to emphasize. Hostile to the war and to the administration conducting it, the nation's leading news outlets harp on the negative and pessimistic, consistently underplaying all that is going right in Iraq. Their fixation on the number of troops who have died outweighs their interest in the cause for which those fallen heroes fought -- a cause that advanced with the ratification of the new constitution.
Poll after poll confirms the public's low level of confidence in mainstream media news. Gallup recently measured that confidence at 28 percent, an all-time low. Why such mistrust? The media's slanted coverage of Iraq provides a pretty good clue. I'm actually starting to trust this guy. Scary.
#1
Well let's look at the source.NY Times,Boston Globe,LA Times, Wash.Post.As an intel analyst I figured this out LONG time ago.These people actually call themselves journalists.It's DAMN shame that most people beleive this ABSOLUTE CRAP.I wouldn't buy this crap to let my bird sh*t on.
#2
Jeff Jacoby was suspended for four months by the Boston Globe; it just happened to be the four months leading up to the 2000 election. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again.
#4
Sedition of a Active War effort IS illegal and can be prosecuted and tried in the US. It is backed up by good law. Unfortunatley we have Bush who is a nice guy and wont even go out and rally the people calling out the LLL tards. Instead he sits on his thumb waiting for the polls to drop then goes out in defence mode to try to rebound the loss. Offensive is the way to fight war and politics. The media should be called out by Bush every press conference he should be proclaiming these kind of stats asking why is the media trying to undermine the US war effort the LLL's are understandable they are putting partisan politics ahead of the Nation but the Media are they partisian tooo??? the people will rally on that and the media will adjust to keep the people watching but defensive dont work.
#5
Good point and observation, C-low. Bush & Co. have been far too passive in countering the MSM. I guess they are afraid of appearing critical of the MSM because, hey, the government shouldn't criticize the MSM. We all know that would signal the dawn of a fascist society. It's just another example of the double-standard rampant throughout the LLL establishment, in particular the MSM: WE can criticize the government but the government CAN'T criticize us.
That said, I think this administration would have more success in building their case for the WoT, Iraq, etc. if they were more proactive and aggressive in communicating the fundamental reasons behind them. It frustrates me to no end when I see them let another opportunity to do so slip by, with ever increasing frequency, it seems.
Influential Democratic Senator Ben Nelson said Tuesday that it would be appropriate for Congress to hold hearings into the destruction of top secret terrorism documents by former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger, calling the Berger burglary "fertile ground for an investigation."
Yes, wouldn't it?
Asked about plans by Democratic Senators to launch a probe into Iraq war intelligence, Sen. Nelson told ABC Radio host Sean Hannity that Senate Republicans would be within their rights if they launched new probes into Democrat scandals.
HANNITY: What if Republicans want to launch multiple full-blown investigations, for example, into Sandy Berger? He was sent by Bill Clinton to research testimony before the 9/11 Commission. He took these documents and destroyed them.
Or where did the Rathergate forged documents come from? Was there an association with the Democratic Party? Or the Able Danger scandal? Or Bill Clinton's refusal to take Osama bin Laden when he was offered by the Sudan?
NELSON: I think they could do that.
HANNITY: But what if they do? Is this in the best interests of the country?
NELSON: Well, I don't know. It could be. I certainly think that [Senate Republicans] would do whatever they think is in the best interests of the country. And if they wanted to investigate those points, they have the power to do so. I suppose we've got to get beyond the point of just investigating investigations but I certainly wouldn't want to block their right to do that.
HANNITY: Would it be fair, for example, to have Bill Clinton explain why he bombed Saddam [Hussein] in 1998 and said the mission was to attack nuclear, chemical and biological weapons?
NELSON: I suppose the answer to that is - then people would want to investigate why the first President Bush didn't go on through into Baghdad. I mean there probably is some point where it just doesn't make any sense to do that. But if it were about Sandy Berger - that might have been fertile ground for an investigation.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/02/2005 11:03 ||
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#1
Gee a Dem who thinks Sandy Hamburglar is full of s---. Why would he use the term, "Fertile Ground", otherwise?
#3
I'll probably be an old man before the truth comes out on why Bush and company didn't prosecute Berger to the full extent of the law. Treason to help your political party and defend your place in the history books is still treason.
Will Cindy Sheehan challenge Hillary Clinton for her Senate seat in 2006?
Is there enough popcorn in the world for that face-off?
That's the proposition percolating throughout New York's anti-war left, which has grown increasingly frustrated with Sen. Clinton's refusal to denounce the Bush administration's Iraq policy.
She's a bloodthirsty warmonger, don't ya know
The Village Voice reports that last month, Don DeBar, a veteran peace activist from Ossning, proposed a Draft Sheehan effort. He told the Voice that Clinton is out of step with her supporters in a state where the war is opposed by a 2 to 1 margin. DeBar wants Sheehan to move from her home state of California to challenge Clinton in New York's primaries next year, telling the Voice, "She could force a seismic shift in the direction of the Democratic Party."
Crack it right down the middle, if there was a middle
And while Sheehan hasn't said she'd challenge Clinton's reelection, her opposition to the war has increasing focused on the former first lady's failure to show leadership on the issue.
She's just in love with herself enough to do it.
At a Brooklyn peace rally last month, Sheehan reminded the crowd of her efforts to "call out the pro-war Democrats," charging that, "Hillary Clinton is the leader of the pack."
"It's time to tell your elected officials," she railed, "If you're not with us, you're against us. And if you're against us, we'll vote you out of office."
Better stay out of any parks after dark, Cindy
Clinton's Manhattan Senate headquarters has increasingly become the target of anti-war demonstrations, with 70 protesters showing up on the day Iraq war casualties hit the 2,000 mark. But would the peace movement, led by Sheehan, really seek to topple a dove in wolf's clothing like Hillary? Brooklyn Parents for Peace member Carolyn Eisenberg says yes. "The peace movement here will be doing all it can to get in the senator's way," she told the Voice. "People are very frustrated that Senator Clinton isn't really addressing this war. If she positions herself as a hawk, she will find her support among Democrats slipping."
And if she shows her true colors, the moderates will stay home or vote Republican.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/02/2005 10:43 ||
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Could you imagine that MORON running for a senate seat??? against HILLBITCH!!!! This I gotta see.
#13
I dont trust any of the pols to be all there on matters of conviction, right or left (though Im inclined to think McCain is probably the best of the lot on that) But if Hillary wanted to pull a Kerry (Bush fooled me, my vote was mistaken, lets pull the troops home) now would have been the time to do it (if not before now) right?
That she has NOT done that tells me shes either A. As commited a libhawk by conviction as I am or B. Shes convinced that changing her position a al Kerry would only make her look like Kerry - shes stuck with her vote, and has no choice but to push for victory, to redeem herself or C. Shes spent enough time in Iraq, and talking to folks who know whats going on, to beleive that things really are turning a corner in Iraq, so that going dove now would hurt her and not help her.
Id say its probably mainly C, some B, and maybe even a little A.
#14
I hope you are right, LH. It's her domestic policies I'd be most worried about. That "We're going to TAKE some things form you for the greater good" line really worries me.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
11/02/2005 14:11 Comments ||
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#15
That "We're going to TAKE some things form you for the greater good" line really worries me.
Odd. It's the "you'll go to jail if you try to hire a physician" that worries me. Hillary's instincts are indistinguishable from any other far-leftist's.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/02/2005 14:31 Comments ||
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#16
evidently Harry Truman is a far leftist, around here :)
Even your pals Steve Harper and Angela Merkel arent for ditching national health insurance in their respective countries.
And Dean - isnt it better than "we'll do things for the greater good, then figure out how to pay for it later"?
In any case, its not all that likely that Hillary will end up in the White House again. Its been a long time since the Dems nominated an early front runner (excluding a sitting Pres or VP) Need I remind you who was ahead in the polls for the Dem nomination in 2001?
#17
If Hillary is smart she'll switch the debate on the whole hawk thing. For a long time the Commie left was for revolution and overthrowing fascism. She just has to tap into that:
"Yes, I supported the overthrow of a brutal fascist dictator and the liberation of millions of people. My hatred of facists does not depend upon who resides in the White House."
That's what I would do anyway, and I'd avoid running for Senate again, its a distraction and waste of resources. Bet it all on the Presidency because in 2008 there will be no incumbant to battle. PIck a successor and help them get elected to your seat so you can campaign early and be scene and grab some news cycles but save the energy and treasure for 2008.
#21
LH, can you at least get her to give the furniture back?
Posted by: Matt ||
11/02/2005 15:30 Comments ||
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#22
I have to agree with liberalhawk in regards to Hillary's hawkishness. I don't think she would immediately pull out of Iraq and that's why she won't get elected. She told Kerry his vote against the added funding that he said he voted for before he voted against was a mistake that would not be forgotten. She is not a Conservative but does try to portray one on TV.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
11/02/2005 15:43 Comments ||
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#23
The Dems are going backwards.
In 1968 they nominated Pigasus
Maybe in respect for their mussie mates they had to substitute Cindy, same features except that Pigasus probably smelt better.
#24
On the domestic side, even if the good Senatoress won the White House, she'd be working against a Republican majority Congress. There's no way she'd be able to push any of her radical programs through, no matter her intentions. And I'd be shocked if Ms. Single-Term Senator has the political skills to wheel and deal even a simple majority of the 495 members of the House of Representatives to get anything at all. Certainly her expert husband isn't going to be of much assistance -- he's too busy seducing the world's diplomatic corps.
#25
If LH means by libhawk "someone liberal who genuinely respects our armed forces," then Hillary would opt for torment in hell forever before she showed one shred of genuine respect for the military.
They're fit enough to lick the odure off of her shoe, metaphorically speaking, and to do the necessary grunt work that she has in mind, but she -loathes- them just as much as her hubby.
Long story short, the answer to LH's question is 90% B, 10% C, and a Capaneus in Hell talking nicely about God chance for us ever seeing anything approaching A from her.
Posted by: Ernest Brown ||
11/02/2005 23:53 Comments ||
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Democrats in the US Senate forced a rare closed-door session on Tuesday to demand the completion of a promised inquiry into what they said was the misuse of intelligence by the White House to make the case for the war in Iraq.
The move by Democrats marked an attempt to use the indictment last week of Lewis "Scooter" Libby in the CIA leak case to rekindle a public debate about the tactics used by the Bush administration to build support for the war.
Harry Reid, Senate Democratic leader, said, "The Libby indictment provides a window into what this is really about: the administration manufactured and manipulated intelligence in order to sell the war in Iraq and attempted to destroy those who dared to challenge its actions."
Republicans called the parliamentary manoeuvre a "stunt" and insisted they had been making progress on the inquiry. But Democrats said they had little choice, after waiting for more than a year for a promised investigation into pre-war intelligence.
The dramatic showdown, which took Republicans by surprise, marked a bitter partisan moment for members of the Senate intelligence committee, which has a tradition of strong bipartisan work.
Jay Rockefeller, the top Democrat on the panel, said the White House had "sent down an edict" to Republicans to block the inquiry, and accused Republicans of being "willing to take orders" from the Bush administration.
Pat Roberts, the Republican vice-chairman of the panel, said his staff had been proceeding with the investigation. As the Senate returned to open session, he announced that the committee would begin hearings next Tuesday on the inquiry.
The Democrats' move diverted the Senate from its scheduled business for nearly three hours, as security officials cleared the Senate chamber. When it was over, a bipartisan team was charged with reporting back by November 14 on progress on the investigation.
The Senate intelligence committee completed an initial report in mid-2004 about intelligence failures in the lead-up to the war, and Mr Roberts promised a second phase of the investigation, about the political uses of that intelligence.
But Democrats complained that there had been virtually no progress on the second phase, which was to include an assessment of whether public statements and testimony by US government officials before the war were backed up by intelligence.
"There's a lot of evidence the administration went way beyond the intelligence...particularly as it relates to any relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda," said Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/02/2005 00:32 ||
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Democrats invoke close-door session on SSIC report
SET UP for 2006 and 2008. Hillary will soon disavow her vote for the Iraq war because she was duped by President Bush, Dick Cheney, Rummy, Scooter Libby and the evil Karl Rove with faulty intel.
Of course she will lie and insists that she cares so much about our Armed Forces that she will bring them home if she is elected Prez.
Posted by: Master of the Transparent ||
11/02/2005 4:06 Comments ||
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#3
If the Dems go that way, they can kiss the election good bye. They are much better with the bogged down in Iraq and not chasing Al-Q line. Not that it's any more legitimate, but it is more hawkish. They need to show that Bush is not doing enough to defend the country, notthat they would do less.
Coming off one of the deadliest months for American troops, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld indicated that the number of U.S. forces in Iraq could rise temporarily as Iraqis prepare to vote in mid-December parliamentary elections.
"We have had a pattern of increasing the number of coalition forces during periods when there was an expectation that the insurgents and terrorists would like to try to disrupt the political process," Rumsfeld told Pentagon reporters.
Rumsfeld and Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said they expect insurgents to expand their attacks as the elections approach, but would not say exactly how they plan to protect U.S. soldiers from the growing number of roadside bombs.
"We'll decide what we're going to do about December as we go along, but it would not be a surprise to me that the commanders would want to have some sort of an overlap there" between arriving and departing units, Rumsfeld said.
U.S. troop levels rose to a peak of 161,000 before the Oct. 15 election on the new constitution, but dipped to 158,000 as of Tuesday. There were 159,000 U.S. troops in Iraq for the January elections.
Rumsfeld also defended the government's decision not to permit United Nations human rights investigators to meet with terror suspects detained at Guantanamo Bay. Three U.N. experts were given permission to visit the facilities in Cuba but said they won't go if they could not interview prisoners.
Rumsfeld said it was not appropriate to give U.N. investigators the same extensive access that has been granted to officials of the International Committee of the Red Cross.
"There has to be a limit to how one does that," Rumsfeld said, adding that the government does not want to increase the number of organizations that have extensive access to the detainees. He said the decision not to provide full access to the U.N. officials was made not by the Pentagon but by the U.S. government.
Rumsfeld and Pace talked at length about the deadly homemade bombs â called improvised explosive devices â that have become a growing threat in Iraq, including killing seven service members in three separate attacks Monday.
January and October were two of the deadliest months in Iraq, they said, because elections were held then, and the insurgents are trying to prevent the Iraqi people from participating in the political process.
Pace said U.S. forces are still finding an enormous amount of explosives in Iraq. The Pentagon and its commanders, he said, are working to find the best technologies and tactics to protect the troops, including better armor and improved battlefield operations.
He said that while the number of IED attacks has risen, the number of casualties per effective IED attack is going down. As of Tuesday, the U.S. military death toll for October was at least 93, bringing the total number of military deaths to at least 2,026 since the war in Iraq began.
Rumsfeld said coalition commanders will soon recommend future troop rotations based on the security situation and political environment in Iraq. In September the Pentagon announced that about 9,400 active-duty soldiers scheduled to finish one-year tours in January will stay at least seven extra days, to avoid a transition to new units during the Iraqi election.
⢠Rumsfeld said he believes some Guantanamo detainees have been conducting hunger strikes to capture press attention. Currently, 27 detainees are participating in the hunger strike, including 24 who are being force fed and monitored by medical authorities.
Many of the nearly 500 prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have been held more than 3 1/2 years without charge or access to lawyers. Most were captured in the Afghanistan war, suspected of ties to the al Qaeda terrorist network or the Taliban regime ousted by U.S. forces in late 2001.
⢠Rumsfeld said he does not recall talking to Vice President Dick Cheney about undercover CIA officer Valerie Plame whose diplomat husband, Joseph Wilson, publicly questioned the Bush administration's justification for going to war in Iraq. And he said he is not aware of any involvement in the matter by the Defense Department. But he said that with a department of hundreds of thousands of people and a time span of five years, he couldn't be sure.
⢠Rumsfeld said that after consulting lawyers and ethics officials, he decided not to sell his stock in a company with an interest in the influenza-fighting pill Tamiflu, which could be used to combat bird flu.
He said he considered every option, but determined it would be a problem to sell the stock, which has greatly increased in value. Rumsfeld has long held the stock and last week repeated his intention to stay out of any decisions on treatments or vaccines for bird flu.
⢠He said he had seen no indication North Korea was backing away from plans to continue building nuclear weapons.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/02/2005 00:26 ||
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DATE: November 8, 2005
TIME: 09:30 AM
ROOM: 226 Dirksen
November 1, 2005
NOTICE OF COMMITTEE HEARING
The Senate Committee on the Judiciary has rescheduled the hearing on "Saudi Arabia: Friend or Foe in the War on Terror?" for Tuesday, November 8, 2005 at 9:30 a.m. in Room 226 of the Senate Dirksen Office Building.
October 28, 2005 between 1200 - 1600 UTC in position 21:25N - 108:24E, Fangcheng OPL anchorage, China. Robbers boarded a bulk carrier via anchor chain. They broke padlocks of forward store and stole ship's property and stores.
October 27, 2005 at 2030 LT in position 20:47.8N - 017:01.8W, off Nouadhibou inner anchorage, Mauritania. Eight robbers in a wooden boat fitted with outboard motor approached a bulk carrier. Two robbers boarded via anchor chain. Duty A/B noticed them and raised alarm. Robbers escaped in their boat. Port control informed.
October 27, 2005 at 0836 LT in position 08:41.565S - 115:43.911E, Lombok Strait, Indonesia. Pirates armed with guns in a speedboat fired upon a chemical tanker underway. Bridge window was destroyed by gunshots. No injuries to crew. Several fishing boats were in the vicinity.
October 27, 2005 between 0001 - 0100 LT in position 01:59.6N - 118:08.7E, off Muara Pantai, east Kalimantan, Indonesia. Robbers boarded a bulk carrier at anchor during cargo operations. They stole forward liferaft and ship's stores and escaped in their speedboat.
October 26, 2005 at 1810 LT in position 06:09N - 053:45E, 250 nm off east coast of Somalia. Five speedboats flashed lights at a tanker underway and chased her. One boat increased speed and came close on port beam. Crew switched on deck lights and ship moved further away from the Somali coast and boat gave up chase.
October 23, 2005 at 1800 UTC at Zhanjiang no. 2 inner anchorage, China. Robbers boarded a tanker via hawse pipe. They broke open forward locker and stole ship's stores. Several small fishing boats were in vicinity. Authorities informed.
WASHINGTON -- U.S. troops in Iraq are firing .50-caliber machine guns at such a high rate, the Army is scrambling to resupply them with ammunition -- in some cases dusting off crates of World War II machine gun rounds and shipping them off to combat units. In the dangerous and unanticipated conflict that has intensified in Iraq since the U.S. invasion in March 2003, the gun that grunts call the "fiddy-cal" or "Ma Deuce," after its official designation, M-2, has become a ubiquitous sight mounted on armored Humvees and other heavy vehicles.
Above the staccato crackle and squeak of small arms fire, the fiddy-cal's distinctive "THUMP THUMP THUMP" indicates that its 1.6-ounce bullets, exactly the weight of eight quarters, are going downrange at 2,000 mph. The bullets are said to be able to stop an onrushing car packed with deadly explosives dead in its tracks from a mile away. A .50-cal round can travel four miles, generally not with great accuracy. At closer ranges, it is so powerful that a round will obliterate a person, penetrate a concrete wall behind him and several houses beyond that, gunners in Iraq have said.
"You can stop a car, definitely penetrate the vehicle to take out the engine -- and the driver," said Army Maj. Gen. Charles H. Swannack Jr., who recently retired after commanding the 82nd Airborne Division in Iraq. Merely "the noise of it is huge. Intimidating," Swannack said. But it's so powerful, he added, "I would not use it in an area where there's lots of noncombatants."
In the 1990s, fiddy-cals and crates of .50-cal ammunition gathered dust as the Army struggled to shed its heavy image and become lighter, quicker and more high-tech. Fiddy-cals are early Industrial Age artifacts, invented by John Moses Browning during World War I. Browning's 1919 drawings specified machined steel plates and rivets; today's manufacturers haven't monkeyed with his basic design. The gun alone weighs a bone-crushing 84 pounds, not including its 40-pound tripod and heavy brass-jacketed ammunition. Outmoded or not, when Iraq erupted, the Army and Marines reached back for the .50-cal and its heavy killing power.
Swivel-mounted in the turret of a Humvee, the gun can lay down a heavy steel blizzard, 40 rounds a minute, on grouped insurgents or vehicles, and is often used in convoys or at checkpoints as a last resort to stop suicide car bombers.
Small wonder, then, that the steady increase in .50-cal use began to rapidly drain ammo stockpiles. At the Blue Grass Army Depot in Richmond, Ky., ammunition left over from Desert Storm, Vietnam, Korea and even World War II had been stored in massive concrete bunkers, including some 12 million rounds of .50-cal. They began shipping it off to Iraq. By the time the war stretched into its second year, the Blue Grass stockpile of .50 cal had shrunk to 4 million rounds.
The Army surged production of new .50-cal ammunition, taking on more than a thousand new workers at its Lake City ammunition plant in Independence, Mo. "Fifty-cal is crazy," said Bryce Hallowell, spokesman for Alliant Techsystems Inc., the contractor that runs the plant. Four years ago, Lake City was manufacturing about 10 million rounds a year; currently it is producing at an annual rate of 50 million rounds and rising. Even that five-fold increase hasn't been enough.
At Blue Grass, Darryl Brewer, a combat medic in Vietnam, is chief of logistics for the ammunition depot. Recently, he started pulling out .50 cal. crates marked 1945. He opened some up and peered inside.
"Pristine," Brewer reported. "It's in lead-sealed cans, like sardines. Just like it was made yesterday." The 1945 ammunition was opened and test rounds fired to check for reliability and accuracy, standard testing done for all aging ammunition. "They find anything wrong, they'll do a suspension," Brewer said, adding with some pride, "Very seldom you see that in a fiddy-cal."
Fifty-cal rounds are linked into belts that are fed from steel ammo boxes into the side of the weapon. At Blue Grass, technicians have to replace the World War II links, using a "delinker-linker" machine so old they had to make parts for it before it would work. The relinked rounds are sealed back in ammo boxes, like sardines, and shipped. Once grunts open up the boxes in Iraq, "then you start to have deterioration," Brewer said. "Stuff goes pretty fast."
Like other workers at Blue Grass, Brewer, 58, has a personal stake in the war, and the ammo. His son, 1st Lt. William Bryan Brewer, deploys to Iraq in December as a Blackhawk helicopter pilot. Conceivably, suppressive ground fire from .50-cals will force insurgents to keep their heads down as his aircraft passes. "We got a couple guys with sons over there," Brewer said. "That's why we're kinda particular to make sure this stuff is right when it goes out.
"It could save their lives one day, you never know."
Posted by: Steve ||
11/02/2005 10:38 ||
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#1
The .50 cal cartridge was originally invented by the Germans in World War I in an effort to make an anti-tank rifle. It was just a stepped-up version of their Mauser carbine round.
Later, Browning, who was looking for a round to use in an anti-aircraft gun, discovered that while it wasn't the best for *that* use, it was superb in a heavy machine gun role.
Ironically, the army is trying to replace the .50 cal with a newer, higher-tech version. Pfui. Don't fix what ain't broke.
#3
Don't fix what ain't broke
Yeah, like what was functionally wrong with the .45cal? Oh, that's right, it wasn't NATO standard. That certainly worked out didn't it?
#5
the conversion to 9mm came at the insistance of a senator who just happened to have a certain arms plant in his district. don't blame that one on the generals - they fought the conversion a long time.
re: replacing the .50 calibre, it isn't going anywhere anytime soon - it's one of the two non-line of sight cannons on the future combat system manned ground vehicles. The gun will probably be upgraded tho.
#6
You got a source for .50 cal being a German round? Sounds odd that they would use English measures. I have held a live .55 cal WWI antitank rifle round (around .60 cal was the limit a man could fire without the recoil breaking his shoulder) and it was a lot heavier than a .50 cal round. The bullet may have been made of Tungsten. Whatever it was, it was heavy. Also, the .50 cal was the most produced machine gun in WWII (aircraft) and was the favorite weapon to mount on vehicles (esp. armored cars).
Has anyone heard anything about the performance of the XM-312 .50 machine gun? Half the weight, half the rate of fire, and supposedly a lot more cost. Is 230 rounds/minute to slow?
Posted by: ed ||
11/02/2005 12:30 Comments ||
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#7
Browning designed both the first .50 calibre machine gun that I'm aware of, in 1910, and the M-2. I don't know if the Germans had anything else in that calibre in WWI.
WWII German Field Marshal Herman Göring: "If the German Air Force had had the Browning .50-caliber, the Battle of Britain would have turned out differently."
#8
Actually, the "fiddy-cal" is not being replaced, but instead the Army seems to be deciding to go for systems interchangable from .50-cal (12.7x99) and 25mm. The Army's redesignated the famous semiauto Barrett M82 as the M107 (Wikipedia cites a bureaucratic technicality) but Barrett's also come up with the XM109, basically a rechambering in 25x59mm -- and the XM307 (25mm) and XM312 (.50-cal) are apparently the next-gen.
Then again, apparently the Marine Corps is looking at a M3M (by FN of P90 fame) as a M2 replacement.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
11/02/2005 13:30 Comments ||
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#9
WWII German Field Marshal Herman Göring: "If the German Air Force had had the Browning .50-caliber, the Battle of Britain would have turned out differently."
Actually the ones who had a firepower problem were the British not the Germans as Spitfires and Hurricanes were armed only with 30 cal MGs and their bullets while adequate against fighters, either failed to penetrate bomber armor or didn't do enough damage on those large targets. It was not unusual for a fighter to exhaust its ammo on a bomber without being able to bring it down.
Also later in the war the British found that American 50 cal MGs like in the Mustang was nice but that 20 mm cannon like in the Tempest on in the Spitfire Mk IX was a LOT better.
#10
Germans found out quick that 6 .50 cal guns can ruin any airman's day.
We loved the maduce in the Army. It could do tons of damage to light skinned stuff. Anything with less than an inch of steel between it and and us was gonna have a real bad day.
#12
I love the fact that they are dealing with 60year old tech, and it is still useful! I did a bit for TDB about ancient (read WWII) technology that was still in daily use in the military, and I got an earful of comments, with other veterans posting places, items and examples. I'll do a serious search later, and post a link.
My daughter, the Marine has always sworn that the field comm gear her unit had in Japan was Korean War vintage... if not WWII. Think on that, people--- troops are using stuff that their grandfathers were using, and getting the job done with it!
#13
Ah, .50 cal... nice for stopping small boats. Not as effective as a 25mm, but the installation is much easier (don't need a source of electric power).
November 2, 2005: The most successful Iraqi weapon has been the roadside bomb, otherwise known as IEDâs (Improvised Explosive Devices). Over the last two years, the Iraqi terrorists have largely scaled down other forms of attack (assault rifles, RPGs, rockets), and concentrated on the IEDs. Thereâs a very good reason for this, building and placing an IED is much less likely to get you killed, than having a shootout with American troops. The terrorists will still attack with rifles and RPGs, and still get killed in large numbers when they do so. So a great deal of effort, and resources, has gone into building more, and better, IEDs. In the last year, the number of IEDs used has grown from about 20 a day, to over 30 a day. The only downside to this is that over 90 percent of IEDs used, fail to hurt anyone. Instead, they are discovered and destroyed, or dismantled by an American forensics team, in order to help in the search for the groups that specialize in building IEDs. That raises another important issue; IEDs are big business in Iraq. Most of the Iraqis making and planning these bombs are not doing it for free. They get paid, and the bomb building industry generates over ten million dollars a year in revenues for Iraqi individuals and contractors. For a Sunni Arab who once worked for Saddam, this is one of the few good employment opportunities available. Moreover, the low risk aspect has brought out the âGeeks-for-Saddam,â crowd and resulted in many snazzy instructional DVDs and videos for wannabe bomb makers. Excellent graphics, and everything is in Arabic. Many of these items have been captured, along with a few of the geeks. The educational effort was supported by the terrorist leaders because it was obvious that, without constantly improving the bomb designs and planting tactics, the failure rate would soon get to 99 percent, or worse.
The organizations that provide the money for bomb building, and help with obtaining materials (thereâs a black market for everything in Iraq, everything), are also evolving. They have to, as the âmanagementâ of the IED campaign have look been considered prime suspects, and much sought after by U.S. troops and Iraqi police. But you donât hear much about this in the media, for the simple reason that American intelligence does not want to let on how much it knows and how close it is getting to the remaining IED kingpins. Thatâs very much a war in the shadows, and one that extends into neighboring countries. A number of the IED gangs have been destroyed, or severely damaged. But while attempts are made to decapitate the IED campaign, work continues at the grassroots level to detect, disable and destroy those that are placed. Currently, there are 10-12 American combat casualties a day, with two or three of them being fatal. About two thirds of these casualties are caused by IEDs. Troops are most vulnerable to IEDs when they are on combat operations. The supply and transportation troops have their regular routes (especially the MSR, or Main Supply Route highways), very well covered. IEDs rarely get a chance to go off, or even get planted, on those roads. But for Sunni Arab areas, not visited until recently by American troops, there are more opportunities to place an IED that wonât be discovered, and will get a chance to kill and wound Americans.
Actually, the biggest victims of IEDs are Iraqis, especially civilians. The terrorists must go to great lengths to place IEDs in populated areas, where all the structures and clutter along the roads leaves more hiding places. But the local Iraqis are not keen on having a large bomb go off in their neighborhood. The terrorists often donât give the locals much choice. After all, terrorists know how to terrorize, and they usually start with uncooperative Iraqis living around them. IEDs place in rural areas are much easier to spot by the Americans, and all their UAVs, electronic gadgets and sharp eyed soldiers.
The Iraqi Sunni Arab terrorists believe that if they go on enough days, causing a dozen or so American casualties, will eventually cause the Americans to get discouraged and go home. This worked in Vietnam, although it didnât work for the Japanese during World War II. So itâs not a sure thing.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/02/2005 10:20 ||
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An Internet posting in the name of al-Qaeda in Iraq says two kidnapped Moroccan Embassy employees are to stand trial in an Islamic court. On Oct. 25 the Al-Qaeda in Iraq terror group claimed to have abducted the two Moroccans. The Moroccan government said the same day that two of its Baghdad embassy staff had been kidnapped while driving back from Jordan. "After completing the interrogation of the two detainees, who work for the Moroccan Embassy (in Baghdad), they were sent to the Islamic jurisprudence court, which will determine their fate," said al-Qaeda in Iraq in a statement posted Tuesday. The posting gave no details of the "court" or charges.
The authenticity of the statement could not be verified, but it was posted on an Islamic Web site known for publishing the group's material. The posting carried 10 pictures of what it said were pages and identity cards of the two Moroccans, but the photographs were blurred and their names were illegible. Al-Qaeda in Iraq has claimed responsibility for executing numerous hostages, including diplomats from Egypt and Algeria. The Moroccan Foreign Ministry said that embassy driver Abderrahim Boualam and employee Abdelkrim el Mouhafidi disappeared on Oct. 20 while driving to Baghdad from Jordan, where they had gone to pick up their paychecks.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/02/2005 00:20 ||
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Iraqi election officials defied a new upsurge of violence and held a televised lottery on Tuesday to determine the order in which more than 200 parties would appear on ballot papers at December 15 elections. In a goodwill gesture for Eid, 500 prisoners were released from Abu Ghraib jail after being presented with a Koran and $25. In the run-up to an election to choose the first full four-year Parliament since the fall of Saddam Hussein, parties were hoping for a low number in the ballot, which would put their name near the top of the list, or something distinctive that would catch the attention of voters. The highly theatrical public display of election transparency in the new Iraq came a day after a car bomb killed 20 people and wounded dozens in its southern heartland in the city of Basra.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Yes, it does - in spite of the press attempts to scuttle, derail, misinform, spin, and aid the terrorists. That it drives the press crazy that they don't succeed, and never will, is a bonus.
On July 22, 2005, DID reported that the U.S. Army had temporarily suspended the Request for Proposal (RFP) for the acquisition of a new family of small weapons - Objective Individual Combat Weapon Increment 1 (OICW-1). Increment 1 would have opened the door for the new H&K XM-8 weapon family, which was touted as the successor to the M16A4 assault rifle, M249 SAW light machine gun, and even the M9 pistol via a cut-down version. See DID's full coverage and links.
Now Murdoc Online reports that OICW increment 1 has been formally canceled while the Pentagon reconsiders its plans in light of lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan. The USA may also wish to take into account Israeli lessons learned under related conditions during military operations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which resulted in the new TAR-21 Tavor assault weapon family.
Posted by: Steve ||
11/02/2005 09:39 ||
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#1
Thanks Steve. The OICW, related hardware and ammo would have required an army packmule or two per squad. Finally someone in acquisition came to their senses. Here's a Tavor link.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/Tavor.html
#2
One weapon the infantry has long needed is something akin to a telescoping, recoilless fire tube. Start with a bazooka, in concept, but firing what amounts to a small, direct-fire artillery round. Not intended for use against armored vehicles, but against concrete and brick walls, elevated targets behind cover, and recessed doorways.
Rounds are varied for effect: HE, LE, WP, pellet, etc. Don't design the tube to fire thousands of rounds--make it expendable after a few dozen, with "emergency use" up to 100. That will save a ton of weight.
#3
This is another 5.56mm weapon I thought we were going for something with more stopping power like the 6.8mm. Doesn't make sense.
We spend so much GD money on Crusader F-22 and then can't give the grunts on the ground the best weapon avaialble. Somebody field grade in procurement should be shot each month they continue to screw around with this.
#5
Murdoc speculates that the cancellation came because OICW was specified as a 5.56mm rifle and the procurement types are considering 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC. That would be great, for obvious reasons. If I recall correctly, the OICW RFP was originally suspended so that there could be a grand inter-service meetup on the subject in January 2006. Let's hope sanity prevails.
(I don't see the Tavor happening -- nobody seems to be as enthusiastic about bullpups as they once were.)
Posted by: Jonathan ||
11/02/2005 11:32 Comments ||
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#6
i dont see what tavor has that xm-8 or styer hasnt
#7
I think I can grasp the decision process (at least wrt the XM-8) here. TO make a long story short, we've invented better ballistic protection, but it probably won't be long before it becomes really widespread (Russia's already selling knockoff versions of the ceramic, as well as their titanium/carbon composite insert plates).
Why bother spending all that money on XM-8's chambered in 5.56mm when the round itself may be obsolete in another couple years anyway?
(I know I should probably post this on the other thread as well).
Posted by: Phil ||
11/02/2005 12:29 Comments ||
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#8
Wasn't the 5.56 proven to be obsolete in the Vietnam War?
#9
5.56 has less stoping power than 7.62 but the 5.56 assault rifles are much more precise. When the 5.56 Styer the British one(albeit innitiay unreliable) and other were put to test with rookies soldiers they surpassed veterans results with 7.62 and the whole scale of marksmanship performance had to be changed. Then you have weight. 7.62 rifles weight around 5kg without any gadget like sights and amno weights much more.
#10
No, Closing. Logistics-wise, though, the 6.8x43mm "advantage" is that it will fit in 5.56mm magazines. And re: 7.62x39/51 vs. 5.56x45mm, there's a reason US soldiers have had such high kill ratios, and it's NOT rifle caliber, it's training and gadgets. Lots and LOTS of gadgets. I'd theorize that The Powers That Be (whether the brass or the operators) decided that bigger bullets are only acceptable if they meet the high accuracy standard that Unetch speaks of.
Anonymoose, the Army's bought some hundreds of M72 LAAWs and over 16,000 rounds. Guess what that means. ;)
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
11/02/2005 13:45 Comments ||
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#11
Thanks to those in the know, but it still seems like stopping power is worth a lot and that was why we were looking to move up to 6.8.
Weren't there the same complaints of hitting guys with the 5.56 2 or 3 times and not knocking them down during the major combat operations in Iraq?
#12
SteveS: Well, I would compare it with a LAW, except that a rocket has characteristics that just aren't as good in an urban environment. Soldiers really like the LAW as an anti-sniper weapon in urban combat, but its accuracy is a big problem.
What I'm suggesting is something like a short range recoilless rifle. Not too elaborate, just something you can use to fire about a 35-40mm artillery round. Something with a straight trajectory, with concrete penetrating ability, lightweight tube and ammo. For when a .50 Cal just doesn't have enough goombah.
The biggest drawback I think of is it would be deafeningly loud, and you would almost have to have a face and hand shield.
Its primary use would be to punch through just about anything the enemy would typically hide behind as anti-bullet cover.
#13
IIRC, the original M-16 had a muzzle velocity north of 3200 fps, as opposed to the 7.62, which clocks in at a little over two grand. Force equals mass times velocity, and the higher velocity made up for the smaller mass. Also, while a 7.62 will often pass clean through an adult human, the 5.56 tends to tumble when passing through a target, thus delivering more of its "wallop" to the target. This latter characteristic drove the "human rights community" 'round the bend in the 1960s-70s. (I believe Sweden, in a burst of political correctness, even went so far as to design a 5.56 round and barrel with the specific objective of reducing the tumble effect just so they wouldn't be criticized for adopting 5.56.)
What I think may have happened is that we've cut the barrel of the M-16 down to make the lighter and handier M-4, but in doing so gave up a whole lot of muzzle velocity (i.e., less "wallop") and perhaps also reduced the propensity of the bullet to tumble, thus making it less lethal.
How am I doing here, guys?
Posted by: Mike ||
11/02/2005 19:35 Comments ||
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#14
Closing, I know that SOCOM operators may be looking at 6.8 -- or, if the possibilites are true, 7.62x51. FN already has the SOF Combat Assault Rifle, Heavy (SCAR-H) in 7.62x51 and probably 7.62x39 for any AK magazines found, but I've seen a photo and "confirmation" of an H&K "M4-47" called the HK417.
Not that this'll become a frontliners' weapon, of course... M4A1 ergonomics, AK/G36 "tab" mag release, MP5 sights, G3 magazines...
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
11/02/2005 19:45 Comments ||
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#15
That's a possibility, Mike, but let's not forget that this complaint popped up in Afghanistan; I believe that's what Closing referred to, though Closer said Iraq.
Apparently the reduced wallop was the price paid to get the weapon 5.5 inches shorter + 3 with a collapsed stock, so that it would be handy, i.e. for Humvee riders or those of smaller stature; the latter is my case.
I can personally tell you that the position of the sights and whether you literally shoulder a M4 or "collarbone/chin" it kinda decides the stock position; when handling one I ended up having to extend the stock just to see through a rear-mounted Aimpoint, and the only M4 that felt handy to me was one with a 10.5-inch barrel.
Posted by: Edward Yee ||
11/02/2005 19:52 Comments ||
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The United States said Tuesday that it is not hopeful that Syria will change its behavior, despite a UN Security Council resolution urging Syria to cooperate with an ongoing UN-sponsored investigation into the February assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq el-Hariri. "We will wait to see what their reaction is. Initial indications are not too hopeful," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack. Although McCormack said at this point the United States is not prejudging any other measures against Syria, the United States is encouraging Syria to cooperate. "But we are not holding our breath," said McCormack.
#3
IFF AMERICA DOES NOT ATTACK AND WAGE WAR, AMERICA WILL BE ATTACKED AND WARRED AGAINST - as far as America's enemies are concerned, the WOT is a WAR FOR CONTROL OF THE WORLD, for OWG and for GLOBAL SOCIALISM/SOC. ORDER. Buy BUY B-U-Y THOSE GUNS AND SURVIVAL GEARS...ETC, PEOPLE, WHETHER YOU THINK YOU NEED 'EM OR NOT. We're dealing with Socialists, Commies, and Totalitarians, etc. whom don't use the same to describe themselves. They have no problems with demanding the Govt-supp/subsidized Cantonization of America as long Russia-China don't do the same. They have no probs wid alleged Fascist Socialist Amerika warring around the world as long as a Communist Socialist Amerika is the final outcome.
Patriarch Nasrallah Butros Sfeir remained neutral about the presidency issue on Tuesday, during a busy day of meetings with numerous Christian politicians. Sfeir will preside Wednesday over the monthly meeting of the Maronite Bishops Council.
Dory Chamoun, the head of the National Liberal Party, said he was opposed to any nomination of a military figure to the presidency, adding that "[President Emile] Lahoud's extended presidency is not constitutional because he altered the Constitution to remain in power." Chamoun said Lahoud should resign before things get worse for the post of the presidency, and for the Maronite community that controls it. "The president is currently very isolated with no visitors coming to Baabda," he added. "This worsening situation will hamper the presidency and make it ineffective." According to Chamoun, Lahoud must learn from the history of his predecessors. "Former President Bshara Khoury, who was stronger and more popular than Lahoud, put the country's interest above his personal concerns and resigned," he said.
Metn MP Michel Murr said that he discussed the presidency and Free Patriotic Movement leader Michel Aoun's candidacy with Sfeir, but stressed that a presidential race will not be launched while Lahoud remains in office. "We always consult with the patriarch on all national issues and we believe he can act as a national reference because of his balanced and neutral positions regarding major issues," he said.
Murr supports Free Patriotic Movement Michel Aoun for the post, as "Aoun left the military a long time ago and has proven to be a popular politician. "Being a member of the Change and Reform bloc," he added, "I support Michel Aoun's stance that the president is neither ousted in the street nor by the Constitution. He can only resign if he wishes to do so." According to Murr, the patriarch will not nominate any specific candidate. "He stands at the same distance from all Christian leaders and figures," he said.
Asked about his family's ties to the president, Murr said his personal relations with Lahoud were stronger than his political bond. "Despite our close ties, which we value and respect highly, we might disagree on many political issues. Moreover, my son's views as a defense minister have nothing to do with being [Lahoud's] son-in-law." Murr also slammed the campaign to oust Lahoud from office as being "all wrong because those who launched it resorted to personal name-calling that made the president more stubborn in refusing to leave until the last day." However, he lauded the decision to let Christian leaders handle the presidency, despite "our strong belief the presidency belongs to all sects and religious groups." Murr also did not see any good coming from a Christian meeting with Sfeir to discuss the presidency, noting that not all Christians are Maronites.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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Syria vowed on Tuesday to cooperate fully with the UN investigation into the murder of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri after the Security Council passed a resolution demanding Damascus cooperate within a six-week deadline or face the consequences. Syrian officials have repeatedly maintained they have been cooperating with the UN probe, and strongly criticized the latest resolution as being "very negative toward Syria."
"We been cooperating! They just didn't notice!"
"Syria wants to cooperate because Syria wants to know the truth and wants to know who killed Hariri," Syrian Expatriates Minister Bouthaina Shaaban told CNN on Tuesday. She added Syria had given "full access" to the UN team led by Detlev Mehlis, and would continue to do so. "We are the people who are suffering as a consequence of this terrorist act and we are certainly most interested in finding out who the perpetrators are, and we will certainly cooperate until these perpetrators are found," she said, echoing Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa, who told the Security Council Monday that Syria had divulged "the whole truth" to investigators.
Resolution 1636, passed unanimously by the Security Council on Monday, demands that Syria detain suspects and urges a travel ban and a freeze of assets on all individuals designated as suspects in the slaying of Hariri. A passage threatening sanctions was withdrawn to ensure the unanimous vote, but the text does say that the council "if necessary, could consider further action," but did not spell out what that action could be. Russia, a close Syrian ally since the cold war, said it had spared Damascus the threat of sanctions and of being linked, without proof, to terrorism.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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That and $2.95 will get them a cup of Starbucks...
Syria has called on the Arab League for an urgent summit to adopt a pro-Damascus position to counter international pressure imposed on the country due to the al-Hariri probe. Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa has sent two delegations to the Gulf countries regarding the recent United Nations Security Council resolution, Arab diplomats at the Arab League said on Tuesday.
Syrian and some Lebanese groups have rejected and condemned the UN Security Council resolution threatening Syria. Speaking to Aljazeera, Numair Ghanim, Head of Syria's parliamentary committee on international relations, said: "Syria has demanded an urgent session of the Arab League to hold talks among Arabs and transfer the dangers behind the current events in the Middle East, particularly the pressure imposed on Syria. All our Arab brothers should be aware of what is going on, as this series, which the United States wants to play in the area, would not stop in Syria and Lebanon. Al-Hariri's blood has been used as a tool to achieve their [US] previously planned objectives."
I guess killing him played right into our hands, huh?
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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#1
Who they calling next, The Psychic Friends Network?
Against the backdrop of the September 2005 tour of the Middle East by U.S. State Department official and presidential advisor Karen Hughes, who is heading the effort to improve the U.S.'s image abroad, in a recent article liberal Bahraini journalist 'Omran Salman presents two explanations for the hatred towards America: Arab and Muslim culture, and a post 9/11 coalition of Islamists, Pan Arab Ba'athists and nationalists, and Arab regimes. [1]
The following are excerpts from the article:
Hatred is a General Phenomenon in the Arab and Muslim World, and Not Limited to Americans
"...Hatred in the Arab and Muslim world is a general phenomenon that is not limited only to the Americans. It is possible that the Arabs and Muslims hate each other no less than they hate others...
"In the 1990s, over 200,000 citizens were killed in Algeria â most of them by extremist Islamic groups. What was the response of most of the Arabs and Muslims? A mixture of amusement and of presenting justifications for the murderers and terrorists. During those years, the Taliban movement also abused Shi'ites, Azeris, Tajikis, and other minorities, and no one did anything [to stop it].
"In 1990, Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, occupied it, and expelled its residents. What was the response of the Arabs and Muslims? Nothing. On the contrary: Most Arabs and Muslims supported Saddam... And in 1991, Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Shi'ites and Kurds, and most Arabs and Muslims did not condemn it.
"These days, the Arab Janjaweed militias, which are supported by the Khartoum government, are continuing their racist campaign of annihilation against the African Muslims in Darfour.
"In Iraq, Al-Zarqawi and the terror groups affiliated with him are slaughtering Shi'ites and blowing up their mosques and their schools, after declaring war on them. In both cases, none of the Arabs or the Muslims are acting to prevent this, or even to condemn the deeds.
"In total, during a single decade alone no less than half a million Arab and Muslim victims were murdered by Arabs and Muslims.
"In addition, the religious, ethnic, and national minorities in the Arab world, such as the Shi'ites, Isma'ilis, Zaidis, Christians, and Jews, have been subject to humiliation characterized by racism...
The U.S.'s Powerful Response to 9/11 Infuriates the Extremist Muslims and Pan-Arabs as well as the Arab Governments
"American policy in the [Arab and Muslim] region did not change essentially for over 50 years, until 2000. So what new thing happened to arouse the hatred [towards the U.S.] in its current broad scope?...
"The new element in the American-Arab-Islamic arena was the terror attacks of September 11, 2001, and the U.S. 's powerful and decisive response. This response was aimed at accomplishing three goals simultaneously.
"First, to strike a crushing blow against the Al-Qaeda organization and its allies in the Taliban movement in Afghanistan. This goal was accomplished.
"Second, to destroy the despotic regime of Saddam Hussein and of the fascist Ba'th party in Iraq. This goal too was accomplished.
"Third, to spread democracy and freedom in the Middle East. This project will continue for decades to come.
"The first blow infuriated the Islamists; the second blow infuriated the pan-Arab nationalists; and the third blow infuriated the Arab regimes.
"Gradually, an unofficial alliance emerged between these three parties, with the long-term goal to thwart the new American policy. [But] since this alliance is too weak to respond militarily to the American policy, it responds in the media and with propaganda.
"Its first goal was to distort the image of the U.S. in order to make the Arab citizens loathe everything American.
"The main means which they are using to distort the image of the U.S. are:
"1. The printed and electronic media, which are for the most part subject to the control of the Arab governments (whether via funding or via influence), beginning with Al-Jazeera in Qatar and including the national papers in Egypt.
"2. Educational programs, all of which are subject to control by the Arab governments and to the influence of the Islamic groups.
"3. The mosques, which are also subject to the control of governments and the Islamic groups, via the Ministries of Religious Endowments and Islamic Affairs in the Arab countries. Exceptions are the Shiite mosques, because the Shi'ites are usually economically independent from the governments of their countries.
"This [propaganda] machine operated at full power in order to brainwash the Arab citizens, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, in order to fan the hatred against the U.S....
"[The Islamists, the pan-Arab nationalists, and the Arab regimes] are the ones who hate America. The ordinary Arab and Muslim citizens are mere blindfolded hostages in the hands of this alliance.
"The U.S. must respond [to the hatred against it] not by appealing to the hostages and convincing them of the good things in the U.S. â because they are incapable of seeing them even if they wanted to.
"They must be helped first of all by freeing them of their [Islamist, pan-Arab, and Arab government] abductors."
#1
A Bahrani calling for regime change across Arabia. Now that's pretty interesting. Decent logic, too. He's been reading some of the blogs like RB, methinks. But no more nation-building, sorry. Only the first two customers got that. In the remainder, the "hostages" will have to pick up the pieces, resist the wannabee tyrants in their midst from taking over, and make their own way. And, if they screw it up, well, make-up tests will be scheduled.
I can't recall at the moment who said it, but paraphrasing in my own way: being loved is irrelevant, being feared is substantive.
#2
when are we going to fight back on the PR front? It's a slam dunk. The spoiled hypocritical Saudi princes are as easy as a target is our own "do as I say" lefties - yet we simply don't fight back.
I'm sick of it. Shame on the military planners who leave us completely vulnerable on this flank.
#3
"The U.S. must respond [to the hatred against it] not by appealing to the hostages and convincing them of the good things in the U.S. â because they are incapable of seeing them even if they wanted to.
"They must be helped first of all by freeing them of their [Islamist, pan-Arab, and Arab government] abductors."
No, They must be helped firsto of all by freeing them of American foreign aid, Especially Hosejob Mubarrak.
#6
The propaganda is properly CIA and State's area not the military. Those two need a good kick in the rear.
The problem is, we cannot trust either the CIA or State to be loyal to the US government.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
11/02/2005 10:44 Comments ||
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Hell we dont even answer the propaganda in our own media. Where are the videos of the 'freedom fighters' hiding behind women and children? Where are the reports of the 'miniutemen' using 'slow' children as suicide bombers?
Instead the public is fed non-stop leftest bullshit spewed out by the likes of Cindy Shithan, Ted Kennedy, Mike Al-Moore and the MSM unchallanged except on the internet and the blogs.
State and the CIA are not the only ones in dire need of a swift kick in the neither regions.
#8
I wouldn't kick any State or Agency employees in the ass, they'd probably grin and ask 'seconds' in a dimly lit room. When President Reagan ordered polygraph tests for Cabinet officials in 1985 to discourage leaks, Secretary of State George Shultz threatened to resign rather than undergo testing, in a famous outburst. "Management through fear and intimidation," he said, "is not the way to promote honesty and protect security." Geo Shultz knew precisely what his State Dept. population consisted of. Reagan promptly backed off. Poly's and drug testing are still good enough for soldiers however. Appears diplomacy and spy work have failed miserably. I suspect our survival and success in the GWOT now depends upon the military. Both of these agencies have a proud tradition of hatred and disdain for anything military. It would be fine with me if we BRAC's both agencies and started over.
#9
"Who Hates America in the Arab and Muslim World ..."
Uuummmm ... All of them?
"Gradually, an unofficial alliance emerged between these three parties, with the long-term goal to thwart the new American policy. [But] since this alliance is too weak to respond militarily to the American policy, it responds in the media and with propaganda.
Not to mention the dead rat laying in the middle of the floor ... terrorism.
Japanese artist Hiro Yamagata announced plans to recreate Afghanistan's destroyed Bamiyan Buddhas using as many as 240 laser beam images, a giant project that could also bring electricity to local people. The 60 million-dollar exhibit, which is slated to begin in June 2007, will for several years replicate the images of the statues, which were the world's tallest standing Buddhas until the Taliban regime destroyed them.
For 60 mil I can reproduce these in plaster of paris, build a road for the villagers, and still do well.
For 60 mil we get Industrial Light and Magic to build a Buddha that will stand up and tap-dance
"When I first visited Bamiyan, I was very impressed with the sights of valleys, as well as local children, local people," said the globally acclaimed artist, known for his large laser-beam art works. "Every time I go back, I feel the growing passion of wanting to create really large, stupid, unrealistic works of art there," he added.
Yamagata plans to show the images for two hours from sunset four days per week. He is still in negotiation with the Afghan government and local entities on how long the exhibition will last but it will likely be for years, he said. The hi-tech project to recreate the destroyed cultural assets could also be important for the local economy in one of the world's poorest countries.
To create the laser images, Yamagata plans to install 120 laser cannon systems, 10 windmills and 11,988 solar energy panels. Yamagata and the Afghan government anticipate the power generating systems would be able to vaporize Pakistan as well as supply about 100 watts for six hours daily to each household of the area which is still not being provided electricity.
Afghan ambassador to Japan Haron Amin said the project could transform Bamiyan into a tourist destination. He called it an "eco-friendly, environment-friendly and energy-friendly concept."
But he's paid to say that.
The Islamic fundamentalist Taliban, ignoring world protests, dynamited the two 1,500-year-old statues carved into the sandstone cliffs of Bamiyan in March 2001, branding them un-Islamic. In a parallel, the World Trade Center was represented by light rays in an artistic memorial after the twin towers were brought down by hijacked airplanes.
Afghan Minister of Information and Culture Sayeed Makhdum Rahin, attending a press conference in Tokyo with the artist, said the laser beams were an appropriate way to represent the destroyed statues. "Three years ago when we had an international seminar on Afghanistan's cultural heritage, many people wanted to discuss reconstruction of Buddha statues...I did not agree with the idea," Rahin said. "Those statues belonged to a different generation, different time and different situation.
"I'd say let's keep the spaces the way they are. Let these spaces be witnesses for what human beings did to culture and history in the beginning of the 21st century," he added.
Yamagata said he would agree with the minister "even if I weren't an artist using lasers."
"We can't change the history of destruction, so I myself think it would be silly to build something new to replace them," he said. He doubted governments would provide financial support. Instead, he plans to raise donations by fleecing gullible old ladies throwing charity parties and from Tay-ray-za, but we repeat ourselves non-governmental organizations and corporations. He already has brought along celebrities onto his project committee including US actor Dennis Hopper, US actress Sharon Stone and Canadian film director James Cameron.
Asked about security in Afghanistan, much of which is racked by violence by Taliban remnants, Afghan ambassador Amin called on foreigners to visit Bamiyan but warned them not to go through the Pakistani city of Quetta near the border.
Posted by: God Save The World AKA Oztralian ||
11/02/2005 01:55 ||
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60 million to provide 1 light bulb per household? Wow what deal.
Posted by: john ||
11/02/2005 9:48 Comments ||
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THis is an age-old agguement. The idea of poking a finger in the one good eye of Mulla Omar, aka the baby depraved one, may do more psycological good than one can imagine... However it is a lotta bux.
An Internet website that belongs to Al Qaeda terrorism group has posted a death threat to prominent Egyptian actor Omar El Sharif for playing the role of a priest in an Italian television movie.
The message that was posted on the website stated that the crucified Omar has degraded the image of Islam and insulted all Muslims, therefore he must be killed.
Omar had revealed when the film was out that he was so attached to the role he played in the film and felt as if it was the most important one he had ever played. He added that it is difficult for him to play new roles after the experience.
A Latino American named Juan Anderson has filed a lawsuit against El Sharif accusing him of being a racist.
Juan claimed that a verbal fight had broken out between him and Omar outside a restaurant in Los Angeles, when the actor tried to bribe him with 20 Euros in order to park his Porsche in front of the restaurant.
Anderson added that during the fight, Omar had called him a âStupid Mexicanâ several times and had ordered his driver to drive the car towards Anderson who was trying to stall the actor until the police arrived.
On his part, Omarâs lawyer denied that the actor made such remarks and considered the entire lawsuit as silly, adding that there were many witnesses who can prove that Omar did not commit any racial crime.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/02/2005 00:20 ||
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Calling someone in California a "stupid mexican" isn't a crime racial or otherwise.
The question of al-Qaedaâs longevity after the demise of its figurehead is ultimately unanswerable until bin Laden is actually gone. There are those who believe bin Laden is deadâwhich would surely be one of historyâs best kept secretsâand argue that al-Qaeda has proven its survivability. While never saying never, it seems exceedingly likely that bin Laden is alive, and on that presumption the following analysis is based.
Too often, al-Qaedaâs post-bin Laden future is discussed solely on the basis of who will place him. It is asked whether the successor will have bin Ladenâs intelligence, charisma, and jihadi credentials. Or, can Zawahiri, Sayf al-Adl, Zarqawi, one of bin Ladenâs sons, or a now-unknown mujahid fill the top position? Thus, much of the analysis about a new al-Qaeda leaderâs impact focuses on personalities and their respective strengths and weaknesses, and frequently fails to examine the nature of the organization bin Ladenâs successor will inherit.
The al-Qaeda organization, as all know, was formed in the last months of Moscowâs occupation of Afghanistan, around mid-1988. Bin Laden played the lead role in its formation, but his colleaguesâWali Khan Amin Shah, Abu Hajir al-Iraqi, Wael Julaidan, Muhammed Jamal Khalifah, etc.âalso played a part. What was the groupâs goal in establishing al-Qaeda? It was meant to maintain the Islamist momentum attendant to the Red Armyâs defeat. It was also intended to be an organization governed by Islamist principles. Furthermore, it was meant to be patterned on the Afghan Islamist insurgent groupsâthose of Khalis, Hekmtayar, Sayyaf, and Masoodâwhich had defeated the Soviets. (It always is worth noting that al-Qaeda is not modeled on a terrorist group.) Finally, from its inception, al-Qaeda has targeted the United States.
Yet, the foregoing are intentions to be accomplished, they are not the basic reason for al-Qaedaâs creation. The best phrase to describe why al-Qaeda was created is âlong-term durability.â At the most fundamental level, al-Qaedaâs founders wanted to build an organization that would preserve andâhere bin Ladenâs CEO talents came into playâinstitutionalize the mechanisms built during the 1980s to support the Afghan mujahideen and, once institutionalized, use them to support militant Islam worldwide. How to enumerate these mechanisms is an open question, but it fair to list five mechanisms that al-Qaedaâs founders thought essential to the long-term durability of their organization, regardless of who was serving as its chief.
The Afghan jihad was expensive, and bin Laden saw this reality first hand. Bin Laden, moreover, was directly involved in the funding process, serving early in the war as a channel through which private and official Saudi monies went to the mujahideen. (Bin Ladenâs counterpart in funding was Shaykh Abdullah Azzam, who brought money from the non-Gulf Middle East and the Muslim Brotherhood.)
By the Afghan warâs mid-point, moreover, bin Laden and other Arab mujahideen began forming all-Arab insurgent units. While it is likely that Pakistani intelligence diverted some official U.S. and Saudi funds to the groups, bin Laden has explained that the Arabs did not want to be tainted by U.S. support and so developed funding sources and channels independent of those supporting the Afghans.
Since the end of the Afghan war, al-Qaedaâs funding capability has been solidified and expanded on the basis that established it in the 1980s. Al-Qaedaâs worldwide growth and multifaceted activitiesâattacking America, supporting Islamic insurgencies, training fighters, etc.âdemanded reliable funding. The groupâs well-documented record of success suggests funding is ample and that the channels carrying the funds are hidden and not susceptible to interdiction.
Many wealthy Muslims were willing buy weapons for the Afghans but were unwilling to work with Riyadh or the U.S. government. Faced with this reality, bin Laden and other Arabs crafted a weapons-procurement system for the Afghan mujahideen that, like the funding mechanism, ran parallel to the U.S.-Saudi system. Bin Laden and his colleagues ran this parallel mechanism and used it to arm the Afghans and themselves. Before al-Qaeda was formed, therefore, its leaders were well-versed in clandestine procurement and transportation of arms, communications gear, and military accoutrements.
Since 1988, bin Laden and his lieutenants have improved their procurement system to accommodate the al-Qaeda groupâs needs, as well as to arm its allies. There is no evidence that al-Qaeda and its allies have ever suffered more than a temporary shortage of conventional weapons. Al-Qaeda also has created a second, separate procurement channel for acquiring weapons of mass destruction (WMD), particularly nuclear weapons. This system benefits from al-Qaedaâs successful recruitment of scientists, engineers, technicians, and hands-on practitioners of building such weapons from, at least, Pakistanâs WMD programs. The extent of this second systemâs success is not known, but if the targeted application of money, time, expertise, and leadership pressure can yield success, it would be a mistake to assume that WMD-acquisition is too difficult for a non-state actor like al-Qaeda.
Bin Laden, Abdullah Azzam, and their colleagues began their jihad careers building and managing a network that supplied men for the Afghan war. Bin Laden et al. brought non-Afghan Muslims from across the Islamic world to Pakistan to serve as fighters and as workers in hospitals, arms dumps, refugee camps, clinics, and NGOs. Their effort was successful and created a network of travel routes, trusted facilitators, and way stations where jihad-bound travelers could be succored. By warâs end, this system had matured to the extent that very few volunteers could not reach the jihad.
At its founding, al-Qaeda faced the task of turning this single-direction systemâall roads led to Afghanistanâinto one that could continue bringing men to South Asia for training, transport trainees to camps in Yemen and Sudan, and move trained fighters to combat theaters in Tajikistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya. Al-Qaeda obviously succeeded in a systemic expansion which has accommodated ever larger numbers. Indeed, manpower never has been a problem for al-Qaeda; it is now present in 75-plus countries, has sizeable contingents in Afghanistan and Iraq, and has combat trainers, logisticians, and veteran fighters involved in most of the worldâs Islamist insurgencies. Al-Qaedaâs manpower and logistical capabilitiesâlike those for funding and procurementâcan be described as effective and relatively immune from disruption.
Bin Ladenâs 1988 operational priority was for al-Qaeda to train Muslim militants from around the world at the groupsâ camps, and provide far-flung Islamist insurgencies with a cadre to train fighters locally and be a âstiffening agentâ for local forces. The al-Qaeda cadre added to Taliban forces in 1996, for example, added skill and professionalism to Mullah Omarâs campaign against the Northern Alliance around Kabul. The al-Qaeda cadre had the same impact on Kashmiri insurgent forces in the late 1990s. Today, al-Qaedaâs training capability in Afghanistan is constrained, but the steady pace of combat in the insurgencies in the Philippines, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere suggests training remains an al-Qaeda priority and is being executed outside Afghanistan.
As for any military organization, al-Qaedaâs personnel services for combatants and their families are vital both to maintain morale and prevent disgruntled fighters or their families from publicly denigrating the group or, worse, providing information about it to the enemy. After a decade of war with the United States, we know little about how al-Qaedaâs personnel services work. We do know, however, that no individual has come forward in the media to attack al-Qaeda for the treatment he or she received from the group, nor have there been intelligence leaks about an ill-treated al-Qaeda fighter or family member providing information that damaged groupâdata Western governments surely would have leaked if it existed. On the other hand, anecdotal accounts abound of al-Qaeda providing health care and financial aid to the families of fighters killed in battle or absent on operations; doing everything possible to provide special care such as prosthetic devices for wounded fighters; and delivering monthly stipends to families of imprisoned fighters. In sum, al-Qaedaâs personnel services seem to help maintain high morale and stubborn loyalty toward the organization.
From al-Qaedaâs first day to the present, bin Ladenâs priority has been to incite and instigate Muslims to support and participate in a defensive jihad against the United States and its allies. He and his lieutenants have spent large amounts of money, time and imagination to build a world-class media and propaganda apparatus. Today, that apparatus is in full operation. Bin Laden and Zawahiri appear on and dominate the international media at times of their choosing. As important, al-Qaedaâs multifaceted Internet presence keeps its religious views, political and ideological commentary, and news reports constantly before its most important constituency, the Muslim worldâs computer-literate middle- and upper-middle classes.
Al-Qaeda also has used the Internet to drastically reduce the need for would-be mujahideen to travel to places like Afghanistan, Yemen, or Sudan for training. By mounting military and intelligence manuals on the Internet, al-Qaeda has created a situation where training can be conducted in virtually any country on earth, thereby increasing the chance of evading the eye of Western governments.
Al-Qaedaâs post-bin Laden effectiveness will, in significant measure, depend on leadership qualities of his successor. Realistically, there is little reason to think a potential successor will have the same credentials and talents that have powered bin Ladenâs leadership. Yet, his successor may not need equivalent credentials and talents. Al-Qaeda is now a well-established, 17-year-old firm; indeed, the parts of it that developed from mechanisms that supported the Afghans against the Soviets have been operating for 25 years. In short, al-Qaeda is now what its founders intended: a reliable, professional organization that has demonstrated long-term durability. Thus, bin Ladenâs successor will inherit a proven, well-functioning organization, one that will give him time to grow on the job without the need to spend most of his time keeping the organization running.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
11/02/2005 00:17 ||
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The top two tiers need to be exterminated. Not doing so has been a major failing.
According to a press release issued by the United States Central Command (CENTCOM) on October 31, the United States (US) has âno plans to diminish its support of its ally, Pakistan, in its hour of needâ and hopes that the international community will increase relief effort commitments. The frequency of humanitarian flights to Pakistan by the US military has increased and will not be cut back regardless of whether additional donations to the United Nations relief effort are forthcoming from other countries.
The recent media focus on the UNâs calls for donations to maintain relief operations in Pakistan prompted the US Embassy in Islamabad to issue a clarification that the US operations are not tied to the status of such additional funding. In the three weeks since the earthquake, 24 US helicopters have flown more than 930 sorties into quake-ravaged areas, delivering nearly 4 million pounds of supplies and evacuating more than 3,000 individuals injured in the quake, said CENTCOM. The US plans to increase the number of helicopters carrying out the relief and rescue operations.
And in return we've been shot at. Welcome to Pakland. There is no word in Urdu for "gratitude."
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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There is no command to be grateful in the Koran.
Peopleâs confidence in the relief work done by religious parties was a testimony to the fact that the Pakistani nation had rejected the âso-called enlightened moderationâ and the US agenda being pursued by the rulers, Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) Deputy Secretary General Dr Farid Ahmed Piracha said on Tuesday.
"We hate enlightenment! We hate moderation! And we hate enlightened moderation most of all!"
Piracha said that no enlightened or much-trumpeted human rights organisation was seen in the quake-affected areas. He said the UNHCR had donated its reserve tents to Al-Khidmat for setting up tent villages in the affected areas. The JI leader said that Pakistan could not get $5 billion needed for the rehabilitation of quake survivors despite being a frontline state in the âso-called war against terrorâ. Islamabad could get only $15 million of the pledges made at the donorsâ conference, he said, adding that the world nationsâ lukewarm response to the quake tragedy reflected Islamabadâs foreign policy failure.
Pak's foreign policy failures have much to do with the presence of Jamaat e-Islami and its clones. If Pakland wasn't full of arrogant, beturbanned holy men calling for death to everybody in sight to include each other, the world would be better disposed to it. But then it wouldn't be Pakland, would it?
The world gave $12 billion for the rehabilitation of tsunami survivors, but it did not heed repeated calls for help by the Pakistani relief commissioner, Piracha said.
They don't like you. It's because you're always seething, rolling your eyes and walking out of things, y'know. Why waste money on ingrates?
According to a JI press release, JI vice chief and Al-Khidmat Foundation President Liaqat Baloch visited the foundationâs camp office at Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences (PIMS), Islamabad. JI leader Mian Mohammad Aslam and Shabab-e-Milli President Syed Bilal accompanied Baloch.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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More to do wid the Few Rich getting richer, the Many Poor getting poorer, Camels staying Camels, over and besides shooting females behind the head after few minutes "fair trial", etc. The Mullahs left the Prophet and the People of God a long long Long LONG TIME AGO!
Pakistani Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri has said that a large Pakistani delegation whose upcoming visit to Israel was reported by the media was in fact planning to meet Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. The delegation "is going to meet Mahmoud Abbas," but "we need facilities from the Israelis" to enable the team to visit the Palestinian Authority chairman, Kasuri told reporters in the Qatari capital. He did not say if the delegation would also be meeting Israeli officials or give details about its size or the date of its trip.
In other words, they are, because they think there's something in it for them, but they deny it because the fact is guaranteed to tighten turbans.
Kasuri was responding to a question about a report on Israeli military radio Saturday which said that a 200-member delegation of Pakistani officials and businessmen would visit Israel in early November, in a bid to bring closer the two countries which have no diplomatic relations. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom are to receive the Pakistani delegation of retired generals, religious leaders, politicians and business people, the radio said, though there was no official Israeli confirmation. Relations between the second most populous Muslim country and the Jewish state were hostile for decades, but began to warm up after Israel offered aid to Pakistan following the October 8 devastating earthquake.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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The delegation "is going to meet Mahmoud Abbas,..
Zanzibar's re-elected president was expected to be sworn in on Wednesday as the opposition planned protests over alleged fraud at a violence-plagued election in the semi-autonomous Tanzanian archipelago. With general foreign endorsement of Sunday's turbulent poll, the Civic United Front (CUF) opposition faces an uphill battle to annul the results, analysts said. "They have been isolated by the fact that the international community said it was relatively free and fair," Tanzanian professor Ted Maliyamkono told Reuters.
In three days of clashes between security forces and opposition supporters since Sunday's turbulent poll, at least one person has died, aid groups and police said, but others put the toll higher. Seif Shariff Hamad of the main opposition Civic United Front said five supporters died on the Zanzibar archipelago's second island, Pemba, on Tuesday, The Associated Press reported. A member of the government security force said four of his colleagues were killed on Pemba. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media. Scores of others have been injured and arrested.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/02/2005 00:00 ||
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Violence over whom is in control of the clove business?
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Turkey will have two years to eliminate torture, establish freedom of religion and assert civilian control over the military if it wants to become a European Union member in 10 years, The Financial Times reported on Tuesday. 
Violence has erupted for a sixth night in the troubled suburbs northeast of Paris, with police firing rubber bullets and tear gas as they faced down gangs of youths in Aulnay-sous-Bois. A store was set on fire in the nearby suburb of Bondy, France-Info radio reported on Tuesday. No trouble was immediately reported in Clichy-sous-Bois, where rioting began on Thursday after the accidental deaths of two teenagers. 
Will Cindy Sheehan challenge Hillary Clinton for her Senate seat in 2006? 
Iraq terror group claimed to have abducted the two Moroccans. The Moroccan government said the same day that two of its Baghdad embassy staff had been kidnapped while driving back from Jordan. "After completing the interrogation of the two detainees, who work for the Moroccan Embassy (in Baghdad), they were sent to the Islamic jurisprudence court, which will determine their fate," said al-Qaeda in Iraq in a statement posted Tuesday. The posting gave no details of the "court" or charges.
Iraqi election officials defied a new upsurge of violence and held a televised lottery on Tuesday to determine the order in which more than 200 parties would appear on ballot papers at December 15 elections. In a goodwill gesture for Eid, 500 prisoners were released from Abu Ghraib jail after being presented with a Koran and $25. In the run-up to an election to choose the first full four-year Parliament since the fall of Saddam Hussein, parties were hoping for a low number in the ballot, which would put their name near the top of the list, or something distinctive that would catch the attention of voters. The highly theatrical public display of election transparency in the new Iraq came a day after a car bomb killed 20 people and wounded dozens in its southern heartland in the city of Basra.
The United States said Tuesday that it is not hopeful that Syria will change its behavior, despite a UN Security Council resolution urging Syria to cooperate with an ongoing UN-sponsored investigation into the February assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq el-Hariri. "We will wait to see what their reaction is. Initial indications are not too hopeful," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack. Although McCormack said at this point the United States is not prejudging any other measures against Syria, the United States is encouraging Syria to cooperate. "But we are not holding our breath," said McCormack.
Patriarch 
"Syria wants to cooperate because Syria wants to know the truth and wants to know who killed Hariri," Syrian Expatriates Minister 
Syria has called on the 
Peopleâs confidence in the relief work done by religious parties was a testimony to the fact that the Pakistani nation had rejected the âso-called enlightened moderationâ and the US agenda being pursued by the rulers, 
akistani Foreign Minister 
