Article

2008-02-06 Britain

English Army Running Out Of MGs, esp. Ma-Deuce, Pentagon Says 'No'

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Posted by Anonymoose 2008-02-06 10:10|| || Front Page|| [8 views ] Top

#1 The above has been brought to you by your liberal, elite EU government that places personal pleasantries above personal protection.

Enjoy your new future with your new Socialist - Fascist - Islamic overlords.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-02-06 10:20|| 2008-02-06 10:20|| Front Page Top

#2 What about ARMSCOR or DENEL ? Oh, sorry.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-02-06 10:26|| 2008-02-06 10:26|| Front Page Top

#3 Picture from the movie, "The Borrowers" (1997):

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0118755/1-5.jpg

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-02-06 10:27|| 2008-02-06 10:27|| Front Page Top

#4 Darth has it about right. Once again, as a Brit, I find this plain embarrassing. And from a US perspective, these are your BEST allies?

Posted by Peter Carroll 2008-02-06 10:56|| 2008-02-06 10:56|| Front Page Top

#5 British troops, historically among the best ever. This has to do with those whose charge is procurement and logistics and hopefully not a purposeful emasculation of the army; what could we cut which seem innocuous but will do harm - but I would shudder at that thought. Cancel the order to SA and others and get those guns on-line yesterday.

I hope the UK takes this as "Thank God we are not fighting the Soviet Bear at the beaches." and gets their act together instead of polygamy handouts and free cliterectamys (sp?).

BTW Peter Carroll, do I understand correctly that as long as the multi-marriage is in a country where it is legal it transfers? What keeps them from visiting, say Pakistan, as they do already for a bride and coming back with 3 instead of just 1?

Posted by swksvolFF 2008-02-06 11:41|| 2008-02-06 11:41|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm guessing the reason for the Pentagon's alleged refusal is that there is a deep pattern of failing to fund the MOD, a pattern that Browne openly encouraged under Blair and promised to accelerate now that he's PM.

IIRC a senior MOD official resigned a while back over this issue.

The involvement of the Saudis is important, as it has been acknowledged that the UK paid bribes to land defense sales to the Sauds. Those who have been paid to buy products from you do not respect you enough to stand aside and let you take your deliveries first, it would seem.

Posted by lotp 2008-02-06 11:44|| 2008-02-06 11:44|| Front Page Top

#7 Same pattern of defense procurement as in the 1930's. IIRC it took some of Churchill's best efforts to have even the relatively small number of Hurricanes and Spitfires they did have - with which they managed to hold the Luftwaffe to a near-draw for that first critical 18 months or so.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2008-02-06 11:50|| 2008-02-06 11:50|| Front Page Top

#8 Generals asked the US to help but were snubbed by the Pentagon who have dubbed British colleagues "The Borrowers". The report says: "We are trying to get 400 guns transferred from the US.

No problem. Just ask Prince Andrew to wave his magic wand.

Posted by Excalibur 2008-02-06 12:07|| 2008-02-06 12:07|| Front Page Top

#9 What about the long bow?

Posted by Jeremiah Glock4046 2008-02-06 12:54|| 2008-02-06 12:54|| Front Page Top

#10 We are trying to get 400 guns transferred from the US. However, the material was provided by US DoD and they are not prepared to release them.

Anyone know what this means? Does this mean the HMGs in the UK but the Pentagon says the Brits can't play with them? If the British need any supplies, just give it to them. The US don't need to be like the quarter-masters at Isandlwana. It will only get us all killed.

BTW, I didn't know the British made .50 cal machine guns. I thought only the US and Belgians did. Could be they are refurbishing M2s from US stocks. That would make sense from "the material was provided by US DoD." for a UK-Saudi contract and the Brits want to use those.

Posted by ed 2008-02-06 15:24|| 2008-02-06 15:24|| Front Page Top

#11 Manroy probably as most manufacturers has a lead time that meant that when their production line for UK machine guns was met they switched over to the production line for the SA set. Which would also imply that they would face pretty stiff penalties for handing over the SA units to the UK MoD without the saudi's approval or some hefty compensation from the MoD for loss of rep and financial damage (which I can just bet the MoD didn't even bother to offer in the first place). Also as far as the statement about the 400 guns goes it could be that Manroy just completed also a batch for the US (we don't just buy em from General Dynamics ya know ), and are waiting to ship in which case the US paid for and bought these items which would cause endless legal issues about ownership if the UK just "borrowed" them.

http://manroy.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=31

Posted by Valentine 2008-02-06 15:39|| 2008-02-06 15:39|| Front Page Top

#12 Thanks Valentine.

Posted by ed 2008-02-06 15:50|| 2008-02-06 15:50|| Front Page Top

#13 And to throw on the top of all this, the US stocks of M2s are low due to the increased demand from the new Strykers and other vehicles that use them. Last I heard, one of the factories that was making them was running 3 shifts just to keep up.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-02-06 15:50|| 2008-02-06 15:50|| Front Page Top

#14 Hey, I've got an idea! How about the UK just pay the US for them!

Posted by gorb 2008-02-06 15:55|| 2008-02-06 15:55|| Front Page Top

#15 The German's got any? Not like they're using them.

Posted by tu3031 2008-02-06 16:11|| 2008-02-06 16:11|| Front Page Top

#16 See also DEFENSETECH.org > GOING FOREIGN AGAIN?
Its Cylon Yarn 2015 and the US Global Force = USAF needs a new Tactical airlifter capable of carrying the Army's next generation CSV/CFSV = FCS, AND THE V22 OSPREY TAINT IT! C130's, C5's, and C17's are gone/ended production, BUT IN TRUE USSA = Global USR SSR? AMER FASHION, WHATS "LIGHT" TO THE USDOD MAY BE "HEAVY" TO EVERYONE ELSE.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-02-06 19:41|| 2008-02-06 19:41|| Front Page Top

#17 I'm not quite following this, just what's wrong with Britan MAKING THEIR OWN?

Unable, (No machine shops?)
Unwilling (High price, or simply easier to beg them ?)

Posted by Redneck Jim 2008-02-06 23:05|| 2008-02-06 23:05|| Front Page Top

#18 I read my comment and I was unclear.
I'm a Machinist, I make things out of metal, gun parts are Metal.

It's common practice to farm jobs out to several shops depending on what the shops are capable of doing, say one shop makes recievers, one makes barrels, another threads and bores them, still another rifles them, etc.

Then all those different "parts" are shipped to an Arsenal for assembly and testing, bingo, no shortage.

It's illegal to own a Machine gun, but not the parts, especially when any one place does NOT have all the parts to asemble a working gun.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2008-02-06 23:17|| 2008-02-06 23:17|| Front Page Top

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