Article

2008-02-06 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Russian police arrest skinheads over 20 murders

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Posted by Fred 2008-02-06 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Attacks on dark-skinned foreigners have risen dramatically in Russia,

The backlash begins.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2008-02-06 01:11|| 2008-02-06 01:11|| Front Page Top

#2 What we're seeing in the West is the intimidation of whites by their own governments in favor of Muslims and brown-skinned minorities. It's not rocket science to figure out that the reason the governments are kowtowing to those groups is because they threaten violence if not conciliated.

I think whites have turned the cheek for a long time, but I also think that, for many reasons, that time is coming to an end. When it does, the white multiculti crowd is going to find themselves in an awfully uncomfortable position. We'll see how long their commitment lasts when it's actually their (and their families')necks on the line against nonwhites who hate them simply because of their color.

Posted by Jomosing Bluetooth8431 2008-02-06 08:05|| 2008-02-06 08:05|| Front Page Top

#3 im surprised to hear sympathy for Russian skinheads here. Racism and xenophobia has a long history in Russia, and under the tsars was also directed against Poles, and especially Jews. The brown people in Russia are a legacy of the Russian/Soviet empire, an empire Russia is reluctant to give up, and which was in many ways more brutally exploited than the peoples of western empires. Skinheadism is a failure of Russia to westernize, to become a democratic capitalist state. Its NOT the result of EEVIL muslims particularly (its also been directed against laotians living in Moscow, and afAIK against christian Georgians) . Its something to be loathed, not emulated.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-02-06 09:23|| 2008-02-06 09:23|| Front Page Top

#4 Russia, according to my honored history professor, the Hungarian Freedom Fighter, always considered itself the One True Nation and Faith. Hence the Czar's demands for a "Holy Alliance" at the Congress of Vienna; Europe's leaders rolled their eyes and nodded their heads and let the Czar think he'd had his way. Hence the icons carried into battle, and the same title, "Little Father", given to the czar as well as to Christ. And hence the Soviet notion that they had to carry their policy all over the world.

Liberalhawk is right. Jim and Bluetooth, I will assume that you hadn't had your morning coffee when you wrote.

Posted by mom ">mom 2008-02-06 09:34|| http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]">[http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com] 2008-02-06 09:34|| Front Page Top

#5 Jim, you might think about taking another day off...

Posted by Pappy 2008-02-06 09:46|| 2008-02-06 09:46|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm with LH on this one.

Russian skinheads are thugs, pure and simple, and I stand against thuggery, no matter who they are and what they say they 'stand' for.

I especially stand against racist thugs.

Let's be clear: Rantburg is NOT going to go down the path of 'Gates of Vienna' and 'Brussels Journal', blogs that have played footsie with malovent racist and nationalist nonsense in the guise of standing against Islam. We're not going to do that, and the mods are going to make sure we don't do that.

We stand against terrorism, thuggery and fascism, no matter who's committing it, and that's why we condemn the Serb atrocities with the same vigor as the Iraqi or Afghan or Pak atrocities. There's no essential difference between Osama bin Laden and Slobodan Milosevic.

Most Rantburgers (as far as I can tell) understand this, and stand for classical western liberalism, for individuals and individual rights, and against the notions of class and race. That's where we're going to keep it.

A lack of morning coffee won't be a valid excuse in the future.

AoS

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2008-02-06 10:52|| 2008-02-06 10:52|| Front Page Top

#7 Twenty racially-motivated murders.

Let's be clear: Rantburg is NOT going to go down the path of 'Gates of Vienna' and 'Brussels Journal', blogs that have played footsie with malovent racist and nationalist nonsense in the guise of standing against Islam. We're not going to do that, and the mods are going to make sure we don't do that.

We stand against terrorism, thuggery and fascism, no matter who's committing it

Yup. Notice that these murders occurred in Russia, where the national government hasn't exactly bent over backwards to promote multiculti dhimmitude.

Posted by lotp 2008-02-06 11:39|| 2008-02-06 11:39|| Front Page Top

#8 I fullheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed by Mr. White.

Posted by Drive by lurker 2008-02-06 11:55|| 2008-02-06 11:55|| Front Page Top

#9 So, Brussels journal and GoV are guilty by association? A rather broad brush, I'd think. Nice reductio ad hitlerum. So, now I know why some posts were removed (note I don't discuss this, this is your website, not mine, I'm fine with that)..

By the way, that's the whole trouble of being opposed to the islamization of/mass immigation into Europe, where do you draw the line?

Can you admit that the ethnic factor is an issue, too, or are we all suppozed to play along and pretend it's just "islam", as a pure spirit of a religion that is posing problem, and that anti-white and anti-european racism and resentment and grudgeholding about past woes (real, or imaginary, be they from local victimology or marxist-learned) are not playing into that?

Note that the wannabe nazis are clearly into the "muslim" camp, as they hate foremost the "West", and that for example in France, the new stand of the FN is quite ambivalent, some kind of jacobinism-national-leftist, siding more with iran than with the USA. And russia and putput are the idols of many, many rightwingers, along with the serbs, because they're seen as some kind of a possible regenerative force for decadent Europe (pretty ironical, no?). I have no doubts those skins are either neo-nazis, or hate the West because of the new nationalist and supremacist ideology of putin's russia, or both, in addition to killing caucasians... but are we forced to associate them with the VB, or Fjordman?

I don't want RB to become a white nationalist website, thank you very much, I already have my bookmarks, but, please, at least, admit the issue exists, and don't declare people who side with you in the ideas struggle as Infidels and Nazis.

The Brussels journal and GoV are not white nationalist websites, they're not even rightwing, they just acknowledge reality, and have had a psychodram with LGF over that.

Posted by anonymous5089 2008-02-06 11:57|| 2008-02-06 11:57|| Front Page Top

#10 Where to draw the line?

Behavior, including culture and religious motivations for it, is wide open for discussion here.

Comments along the lines of "whites are superior" - which I *have* read at GoV - are outside the bounds at Rantburg.

Posted by lotp 2008-02-06 12:02|| 2008-02-06 12:02|| Front Page Top

#11 Russia, according to my honored history professor, the Hungarian Freedom Fighter, always considered itself the One True Nation and Faith.

Russia sees itself as the "Third Rome", and putput plays into that, and may be himself a believer of that messianic destinity, I'll try to find the articles I've read about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome
Also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Eurasianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantism

Posted by anonymous5089 2008-02-06 12:04|| 2008-02-06 12:04|| Front Page Top

#12 Signing in with A5089, each camp's manefesto makes them natural enemies.

That is, a week ago I was not cheering for either football team but knew they were going to play a big game soon.

As non-muslims -or any grouop for that matter- get picked on and watch family get raped there will be a question of whether to stay on the reservation or ride with Crazy Horse. But if you think that people are better because how light does or does not bounce off of skin you have self-capped your usefullness in this world and are part of the problem and not the solution.

Posted by swksvolFF 2008-02-06 12:42|| 2008-02-06 12:42|| Front Page Top

#13 Russian Skinheads go after those of darker hues because they are easy to single out in a crowd, and there aren't that many of them, which makes them easy targets for beating up. I've a Bangladeshi friend, of one the families that quietly run the country while the politicians gesticulate, who went to military school and then university in Moscow in the '70s. There were problems then, too, it's just that then it didn't get reported in the newspapers.

In Western Europe the Muslim gangs beat up the lighter hued natives because they are easy targets, and the native Skinheads either join them because they like the religious justification, or fight them because they are habituated to hitting darker skin. In the past the Skinheads and their predecessors went after Jews because they were easy to identify, isolate, and hit. These are simple men with a simple need, which they will work to fulfill unless forced not to.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2008-02-06 13:01|| 2008-02-06 13:01|| Front Page Top

#14 From A5089:

By the way, that's the whole trouble of being opposed to the islamization of/mass immigation into Europe, where do you draw the line?

'Islamization' of Europe is a problem because a fair number of the immigrants have decided to throw in with Deobandism and Islamofascism. I doubt seriously that Europe would have a problem today if all the immigrants, regardless of race/color/religion, were peaceful, hard-working types who assimilated into the culture.

It isn't religion. It's behavior. Fascism is a philosophy, not an identity.

Can you admit that the ethnic factor is an issue, too, or are we all suppozed to play along and pretend it's just "islam", as a pure spirit of a religion that is posing problem, and that anti-white and anti-european racism and resentment and grudgeholding about past woes (real, or imaginary, be they from local victimology or marxist-learned) are not playing into that?

Of course it's playing into that. As I've said before, if nineteen Esquimaux had flown planes into WTC, boomed Bali, boomed Madrid, boomed London, murdered the kids at Beslan, etc., we'd all be looking suspiciously at anyone wearing a mukluk.

But I also acknowledge that such a situation would be unfortunate. And I wouldn't hate all Esquimaux, just the killers amongst them. And I wouldn't be practicing my own brand of racism/ethnicism/religiosity to fight them.

That's the difference.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2008-02-06 13:15|| 2008-02-06 13:15|| Front Page Top

#15 It doesn't matter what color shirt they wear if they're all fascisti.

Even though it's unfashionable to have any at all, we all have our prejudices, which is why we, the people, are regularly derided for our ingrained "racism." It's politically incorrect to mention it, but many of those prejudices are gained empirically. We expect groups of people to behave based on how we've seen them behave or how we've heard they behave.

I'm of the opinion that there's a pretty distinct line between having prejudices -- which can overridden temporarily or disproved permanently -- and bigotry, which stubbornly remains in the teeth of any evidence to the contrary. I generically dislike Paleostinians and Paks, having observed both on a daily basis albeit from a safe distance for almost seven years. Yet I have no doubt that there are Paleos who don't fit my prejudices -- I just can't think of any off hand. As far as Paks, go, I regard Najam Sethi, the publisher of Daily Times and Friday Times as something of a hero, and I'm well aware that there are thousands, even millions of Paks who are just as or nearly as exemplary.

My prejudices about the Chinese are mostly favorable, but I've met lots of them who've been shitz. My prejudices about the Japanese in 1969 were moderately unfavorable -- I had grown up with much discussion of and reference to that unpleasantness in the years immediately before I was born. My view of the Japanese as a group today, after living in Okinawa and learning to speak, read and write the language, is generally favorable despite my awareness of the warts on their society. Had I been bigoted, rather than prejudiced, they'd still be Japs.

A gang of Russian thugs beating up foreigners strictly on the basis of their being foreigners is a case of bigotry, not of self-defense. They're the same sweepings who carried out the pogroms, and I'd be offended to be categorized with them. The enemy of my enemy -- assuming their victims are in fact my enemy -- are still trash.

Posted by Fred 2008-02-06 13:36|| 2008-02-06 13:36|| Front Page Top

#16 A gang of Russian thugs beating up foreigners strictly on the basis of their being foreigners is a case of bigotry, not of self-defense. They're the same sweepings who carried out the pogroms, and I'd be offended to be categorized with them. The enemy of my enemy -- assuming their victims are in fact my enemy -- are still trash.

Total agreement, O Powerful Owner.

Posted by anonymous5089 2008-02-06 13:55|| 2008-02-06 13:55|| Front Page Top

#17 In which we find out that Fred speaks more than just the classical intel languages.

Posted by Thomas Woof">Thomas Woof 2008-02-06 15:02|| 2008-02-06 15:02|| Front Page Top

#18 "There's no essential difference between Osama bin Laden and Slobodan Milosevic."

OBL may have killed more muslims by now, Im guessing (counting his followers in Iraq and Algeria and so on)

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-02-06 16:45|| 2008-02-06 16:45|| Front Page Top

#19 Careful, now. Don't all of you except A5089 get hurt by crowding together too closely to pat yourselves on the back for your impeccably liberal credentials.

I don't see how anyone who is actually informed about what has happened in both Europe (including Russia) and America could draw racist inferences from either comment. I've talked to a number of ethnically Caucasian Russians who had family out in various 'stans when the Soviet Union broke up. There were a LOT of resentful locals and they took the opportunity to put some pretty serious payback on the ethnic Russians who remained. I can easily see how that might engender a lot of unhappiness back in the metropole, not to mention Beslan. That's a provocation/incitement in a category all by itself, one that is bound to poison relations between ethnic Russians and their erstwhile colonials for quite some time.

What we're seeing in the West is the intimidation of whites by their own governments in favor of Muslims and brown-skinned minorities. It's not rocket science to figure out that the reason the governments are kowtowing to those groups is because they threaten violence if not conciliated.

Do any of you really want to argue that this isn't happening? Just reading your own blog should make this statement crystal clear, but there's plenty of information and examples out there for proof. Pim Fortuyn and Hirsi Ali are just two examples of many, and don't forget about Mark Steyn.

I think whites have turned the cheek for a long time, but I also think that, for many reasons, that time is coming to an end. When it does, the white multiculti crowd is going to find themselves in an awfully uncomfortable position. We'll see how long their commitment lasts when it's actually their (and their families') necks on the line against nonwhites who hate them simply because of their color.

I don't see how you can reasonably construe this as support for racist attacks. That atrocity tends to breed atrocity should be pretty clearly understood by now. Don't shoot the messenger for only pointing out the truth. My comment only noted that there are a lot of white multiculti supporters out there who are going to find themselves in a real tough spot if it comes to a choice between their principles and their lives.

I remember reading Norman Mailer's comment after getting mugged by a couple of black criminals on his way to a party. He showed up at the party with blood on his face and several bumps and bruises, recounted what had happened, then plaintively asked, "Don't they know I've always been a friend to the Negro?" Typical lib cluelessness.

What I've seen in this thread is little in the way of support for skinhead violence but lots in the way of moderator chest-bumping. Some of you really seem to think you've got POWER by being able to redact comments. Steve White is particularly bad about this. Hey, it's Fred's blog and he can do what he wants, but for a place called "Rantburg" there sure seems to be an awful lot of PC attitude enforcement.

BTW, I fully expect this comment to be redacted. If it isn't I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Posted by Jomosing Bluetooth8431 2008-02-06 19:58|| 2008-02-06 19:58|| Front Page Top

#20 man - I hate when work gets in the way of reading a good thread all day....

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-02-06 21:57|| 2008-02-06 21:57|| Front Page Top

23:59 Redneck Jim
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