Article

2008-11-07 Home Front Economy

Oil falls below $60 to 20-month lows as demand slows

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Posted by Fred 2008-11-07 00:00|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 The turd in the punchbowl.

Do your part.
1. Replace the 12-15mpg trucks and SUVs with something in the 30mpg range. A Ford Escape hybrid will do 32-34mpg. That alone will avoid the 60% of imported oil those monster sized vehicles are using.

2. Go hybrid. Even the cheap BAS systems will give 20% mileage improvement.

3. Push for electrification of transportation.

Even a 20% reduction in oil consumption will allow us to eliminate all middle east oil imports. The sooner this can be accomplished, the sooner we can wash our hands of these turds.

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 01:20|| 2008-11-07 01:20|| Front Page Top

#2 uh huh....and your Escape will carry how much camping gear? Or how many trips to move a friend to a new condo? Or how many people can it carry... in 4WD?

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-11-07 06:13|| 2008-11-07 06:13|| Front Page Top

#3 How many times do you see 8 people in an SUV or towing 10,000 lbs on the freeway. The typical 6-7000 truck or SUV is carrying 1 person to work or the store. Even a 5 passenger Escape is overkill.

The fact is we have to downsize and cut oil consumption. 90% of Expedition or GMC Supercab drivers would be equally as well off in an Escape or Ranger and get twice or better fuel mileage. That's less fuel we have to import and burn, less unstable suppliers we have to suck up to and protect, less money wasted in higher fuel and military expenditures, and less blood spilled acting as Janissaries for corrupt and murderous shieks.

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 07:21|| 2008-11-07 07:21|| Front Page Top

#4 Will it pull a trailer with my 3 horses? Or a trailer with 200 bales of hay? I didn't think so.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2008-11-07 07:36|| 2008-11-07 07:36|| Front Page Top

#5 There is about 0.40 cents in state and federal tax, per gallon depending on where you live as well.

On the topic of replacing large vehicles, we can all agree that some folks need a big ol truck to haul their boat or camping stuff from time to time. So, in order to use a smaller vehicle to commute to work or run errands, then that family would have to buy a second vehicle. But the marginal cost of a second car for plates, taxes, insurance, repairs and parking is probably higher than the gas savings. And that is without even considering the cost of acquiring the car itself.

Posted by rammer">rammer 2008-11-07 07:38|| www.blogoram.com]">[www.blogoram.com] 2008-11-07 07:38|| Front Page Top

#6 Deacon, you are one the 10% that actually uses, even once or twice a year, a large truck/SUV capability or has more than 5 members in the family. That still leaves 90% who would be better off downsizing. I don't know anyone in my subdivision that houses 1 let alone 3 horses. And the subdiv is surrounded by working cattle and horse ranches.

I'm not advocating going and buying a smaller car this minute. It's not cost effective. It is cost effective to replace, when the time comes, with a smaller, fuel efficient and less expensive vehicle. Not only for the buyer, but the country too.

2.5M barrels/day or 20% of imports (not total comsumption) is the amount the US imports from the mideast. That amount of oil can be saved by raising avg US vehicle mileage by just 3 mpg. It is also the sum of OPEC's agreed cuts + proposed cuts to drive the price of oil back up to $100/barrel. Woulnd't it be better to lower US consumption and take away OPEC's ability to make easy production cuts or jack up the price to $200/barrel in the future (as the IEA report predicts) because we refuse to make the prudent choices today?

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 08:58|| 2008-11-07 08:58|| Front Page Top

#7 Oil falls below $60 to 20-month lows as demand slows

And as the banks finally stop loaning money to speculators [or most everyone else who have only paper and promises to back their requests].

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-11-07 09:08|| 2008-11-07 09:08|| Front Page Top

#8 He, he, he.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-11-07 09:36|| 2008-11-07 09:36|| Front Page Top

#9 I wish I had three horses so I would have justification for having a big SUV/dualie truck to haul them around with.

Deacon, you're a lucky man. Go gently rub one of those horses' noses for me. Nothing smoother or softer than the end of a horse' nose. I've kissed one many a time, particularly since the day I realized you can make a good equine friend real fast with some cube sugar and a dozen apples.

Posted by Jolutch Mussolini7800 2008-11-07 09:59|| 2008-11-07 09:59|| Front Page Top

#10 The American people have a funny way of responding when people try to tell them what kind of car they should be driving.

Posted by Broadhead6 2008-11-07 10:58|| 2008-11-07 10:58|| Front Page Top

#11 Ed, my problem is that teh market will respond well to lack of interest in trucks and SUV's. I own an F150 with 4WD, and currently, I have it in 4WD every day on my jobsites. our argument sounds suspiciously like prohibiting choice in vehicles and having someone determine whether you are justified in owning one. I say, if you have a 3 or 4 member family, want an SUV because they are safer and have more utility the couple times a month or year when you need it, and are willing to pay the extra gas costs, go right ahead. That's capitalism and a market of choice, man. Anything else is....unacceptable to me. Gas prices (and higher Truck registration - as a comm'l vehicle) are a necessary cost that I'm willing to pay

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-11-07 11:42|| 2008-11-07 11:42|| Front Page Top

#12 "Push for electrification of transportation."
You must have been out of town, ed. Obama is going to bankrupt the coal business and nobody's volunteering to build more nuke plants.

Posted by Darrell 2008-11-07 11:54|| 2008-11-07 11:54|| Front Page Top

#13 Drive what you need to drive. I have a relatively new Aveo five-door, as it's about as little car as I could find. For every Deacon, there's people like the programmer talking outside of my cubicle right now, who uses his big ol' Explorer to carry around himself and about sixty pounds of random garbage scattered across the seat-covers and in the foot-wells.

As for moving - this is what U-Haul rentals are for.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2008-11-07 11:56|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2008-11-07 11:56|| Front Page Top

#14 The American people have a funny way of responding when people try to tell them what kind of car they should be driving.

How are they at balancing a checkbook?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-11-07 12:23|| 2008-11-07 12:23|| Front Page Top

#15 I got an idea. I'm gonna ask my boss to let me telecommute because it's the patriotic thing to do. Then I can program the computers in my jammies and slippers.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2008-11-07 12:38|| 2008-11-07 12:38|| Front Page Top

#16 I used to telecommute 1 day a week (can't now - different job). The right kinds of work can easily be done quicker and more efficiently without workplace distractions. Unfortunately, many pointy-haired-supervisors consider it a day off, regardless of the productivity demonstrated...and it does get another vehicle off the freeway

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-11-07 12:47|| 2008-11-07 12:47|| Front Page Top

#17 Real capitalism would add another $200 billion/year ($220/barrel for 2.5M barrels/day) to your mideast imported fuel bill. Instead the cost of fuel wastage is socialized on the backs of all taxpayers. The choices are to continue getting screwed and bled by oil suppliers who wish us dead or take sensible and painless measures to raise auto fuel mileage.

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 12:57|| 2008-11-07 12:57|| Front Page Top

#18 so "real capitalism" would artificially inflate the price to accomplish societal goals? That may be a worthy proposal, but don't call it real capitalism, and don't take that $200M and spend it on worthless unrelated causes or candy for your campaign supporters, as our gov't surely would

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-11-07 13:04|| 2008-11-07 13:04|| Front Page Top

#19 The $200 billion is being spent. It buying access to middle east oil. Oil that is exchanged for even more money that is then used to attack us like on Sept 11. The cost, est. $500 billion btw, which should also be added to the cost oil imports. No oil imports and nobody would give a shit about them and the world would content to leave them to wander the desert herding goats and beating women.

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 13:19|| 2008-11-07 13:19|| Front Page Top

#20 trophy wives in suburbans : problem
Actually, we might consider a ban on any vehical over 3000 lbs in a municipality ( depending on size)
Millions of "city people" driving huge SUV's daily in stopped traffic for 2 hours a day : problem

Posted by 40mpg 2008-11-07 13:40|| 2008-11-07 13:40|| Front Page Top

#21 uh huh..."ban". I rest my case

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-11-07 14:00|| 2008-11-07 14:00|| Front Page Top

#22 I didn't realize you were having a discussion with 40mpg.

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 14:04|| 2008-11-07 14:04|| Front Page Top

#23 ok, I'll say it ....tax

Posted by 40mpg 2008-11-07 14:26|| 2008-11-07 14:26|| Front Page Top

#24 40 mpg just pushed your argument to its' logical ends. I say drill here, drill now, advance all types of energy and let the marketplace work, rather than diktats from bureaucrats. And keep your hands off my truck

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-11-07 14:28|| 2008-11-07 14:28|| Front Page Top

#25 Pay your share of the $200B/year that your truck uses above my car. Why should I have to subsidize you because I realized in 2003 the coming financial drain and huge run up in energy prices and took action by buying a fuel efficient car and eliminated the daily commute.

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 14:33|| 2008-11-07 14:33|| Front Page Top

#26 Cripes, this is nuts. Sure, it would be "better" if everyone who didn't NEED an SUV used a more fuel-efficient vehicle. But that is their decision. The country would be better if there were not so many fatties too. Who is going to "ban" them from McDonalds, The Cheesecake Factory and Sizzler? Should fatties pay higher insurance premiums? Yes, just as SUV drivers pay more for their weekly gas costs. But both are still their decisions. (unless you're going with the "glands/big boned" argument).

Posted by remoteman 2008-11-07 15:01|| 2008-11-07 15:01|| Front Page Top

#27 The extra gas costs doesn't begin the cover the real costs of importing mideast oil.
40% of petrol is domestic.
18% from Canada and Mexico
11% from Africa
12% is from South America
12% from the Mideast

The federal budget outlays to defend the first 4 sources is low, while $200B/year spent on middle east mischief has already been discussed. And extra $200B for 2.4M barrels or a $220/barrel subsidy paid through Uncle Sugar.

That $200B is fully 10% of the total personal and corporate income taxes collected. So for privilege of gas guzzling drivers their 5000+lb monsters, every taxpayer in the country forks 10% of his income taxes. That's a expense any private business would have to recoup by adding the cost into the price of the product and would be the first product dropped if demand were lower.

So I say pay for marginal cost of your Arab oil that we would not need except for the gas guzzlers and refund every taxpayer 10% on his income taxes. Pay the real cost of a gas sucking lifestyle. Don't socialize it.

You can bet that when government takes over health care that they will regulate eating, drinking, and smoking (eve more).

BTW, where

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 15:30|| 2008-11-07 15:30|| Front Page Top

#28 Hmmmmm. Sounds like you guys need to read about Clotaire Rapaille. He's an advertising consultant who developed the theory that people have three brains one of which is the reptilian brain which gives us our survival and reproduction instincts. The theory asserts that people buy big ass SUVs because they appeal to our reptilian brains by being bigger and stronger than other cars and because they protect us from the outside world. "The reptilian always wins," says Rapaille. Forget logic. GM, Ford and Chrysler have made a lot of money on that theory. Might have been about all that's kept them alive this long.

As for the gas guzzling, bear with me here, I told the guy at the hardware store I needed a new toilet that would flush a lot of water because my old low flow wasn't getting the job done. He said 1.6 gallons per flush was the most I could buy. He said they used to have toilets that would flush 3.5 gpf. "I want one of them", I said. "You can't have one," he said. "They're illegal in the state of California." Water shortages, you know. So, if I can't get a 3.5 gpf toilet then how can anybody get a 12 mpg vehicle? Maybe the toilet doesn't have quite the same appeal to the reptilian.

Well, Frank G might need it for his work. The solo commuter on the freeway or the trophy wife in the Suburban? I dunno. But if you need to move somebody into a condo you could surely rent a truck for a heckuva lot cheaper than you could own, operate and maintain one year in and year out.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2008-11-07 16:47|| 2008-11-07 16:47|| Front Page Top

#29 I've got a bad back - herniated disks, bulging disks, facet joint damage, osteoarthritis, spinal stenosis, a two-level cervical fusion, and quite a bit of "neuropathy". There's not a small car out there that allows me to sit up straight so I don't cause extra problems. Some of those big honking trucks RIDE like a truck, other larger vehicles give a smoother ride than just about anything small. Deacon needs a truck to work, AP needs something large and stable to get around in Alaska in the winter, lots of other folks have needs that can't be met by tin cans on roller skates. The one thing we DON'T need is a government dictating what we will end up purchasing. There's enough crude in this country to supply 100% of our transportation needs for the next 50 years, if we were allowed to produce it. When government starts dictating, they get into the habit, and it gets harder and harder to break. We need to stop it now, and let them know that the only dictating is going to come from the PEOPLE, not the government. Anyone that can't accept that deserves, and should get, a slap upside the head with a 4x4 (and I'm not talking about the wooden variety).

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2008-11-07 18:27|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2008-11-07 18:27|| Front Page Top

#30 ed, I do pay my share. You drive the same highways and roads I do but if you drive a vehicle that gets really good mileage you pay less for the privelege. I pay more. My truck has a 30 gallon tank. at $4.00 per gallon I pay 120 dollars to fill up an empty tank. A small car has a 12 to 15 gallon tank. For an empty tank you pay at most $45.00.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2008-11-07 21:22|| 2008-11-07 21:22|| Front Page Top

#31 Any bets on how long this $60 oil will last? OPEC cuts production = $100 oil, don't give a bleep about yo poor recession ass, someone's gotta pay for this new tower in Dubai.

So pay up, brothers and sisters. And say thank you.

Posted by Fester Creanter3194 2008-11-07 21:38|| 2008-11-07 21:38|| Front Page Top

#32 I've got a Charger with a 5.7l Hemi I commute and date with, and a Durango with a Magnum 5.2l V8 for hauling the dogs, bikes, firewood, soccer teams, and stuff from Home Depot around. But, I live 2.5 miles from work and drive an average of 11 miles a day, and the Hemi is multi-displacement switches from 8 to 4 cylinders when it does not need the extra power, getting around 25mpg. My twist on all of this has not been to buy an electric lunchbox, as Achmed calls the Prius, but just to move closer to work. Location, location, location. Your mileage may vary.

Posted by Beau 2008-11-07 21:40|| 2008-11-07 21:40|| Front Page Top

#33 Heh. As you can see from the above, everyone has his own damn good reasons for his choice (and next choice) of transportation.

Repubs want to tell you what to do in your bedroom, Dems what kind of car to drive.

Markets work. But: where's the tariff to require a $60 floor on (non-North American) imported oil?

Posted by KBK 2008-11-07 22:13|| 2008-11-07 22:13|| Front Page Top

#34 Deacon, one of my points is that gas guzzlers do not pay their share. My point is every that 10% of income tax dollar is taken to pay to keep mideast oil flowing or fund the war against those who want to kill or enslave us using the wealth from selling us oil. Much of that expense could be avoided by decreasing oil consumption 12% (or raising gas mileage by 3mpg). Instead the socialized subsidy of every barrel imported from the Persian Gulf is $220. I don't gas hogs paying for that at all (other than increased taxes paid by all Americans).

As for gas taxes, the total Fed gas and diesel taxes all go into the Highway Trust Fund which is then used to fund the bulk of the Dept of Transportation to road and bridge work. None of it is used to mideast supply lines open.

While you may pay twice the gas tax to drive per mile, because your vehicle is twice as heavy it also tears up the road 16 times as fast than my car. So in effect, my gas taxes are also subsidizing you right to tear up the roads faster. Care to make up the difference and send a check?

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 23:30|| 2008-11-07 23:30|| Front Page Top

#35 I don't SEE gas hogs paying for that

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 23:30|| 2008-11-07 23:30|| Front Page Top

#36 Too may grammar errors. I going to have a last drink and go to bed.

Posted by ed 2008-11-07 23:32|| 2008-11-07 23:32|| Front Page Top

23:51 Cromert
23:47 Abu do you love
23:45 Joe Schmoe, then and now.
23:37 JosephMendiola
23:33 Jolutch Mussolini7800
23:32 ed
23:30 ed
23:30 ed
23:25 Procopius2k
23:18 Abu do you love
23:17 Zhang Fei
23:13 Abu do you love
23:10 Penguin
23:10 JosephMendiola
22:57 JosephMendiola
22:50 JosephMendiola
22:43 JDB
22:32 Fred
22:18 KBK
22:13 KBK
22:12 JosephMendiola
22:09 g(r)omgoru
22:07 JosephMendiola
22:03 Frank G