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2022-05-24 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Russia says Ukrainian forces planning a provocation using chemicals.
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Posted by badanov 2022-05-24 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [486 views ]  Top

#1 Yeah, I've long suspected a false flag chemical attack that will provide the casus belli for US entry and a much larger war.

And if the nukes fly? Well, globalists are of the opinion that the planet is overpopulated anyway. A few billion dead is a plus, particularly if they're those deplorable Americans. It's win-win.
Posted by Bertie Lumumba1577 2022-05-24 02:02||   2022-05-24 02:02|| Front Page Top

#2 Ambrose Pritchard-Evans reports from Davis that Kissinger has added his voice to calls for the US to force Ukraine to trade land for peace:

Henry Kissinger: Ukraine must give Russia territory
Former US Secretary of State warns against the defeat of Putin as Western unity on sanctions frays badly

Veteran US statesman Henry Kissinger has urged the West to stop trying to inflict a crushing defeat on Russian forces in Ukraine, warning that it would have disastrous consequences for the long term stability of Europe.

The former US secretary of state and architect of the Cold War rapprochement between the US and China told a gathering in Davos that it would be fatal for the West to get swept up in the mood of the moment and forget the proper place of Russia in the European balance of power.

Dr Kissinger said the war must not be allowed to drag on for much longer, and came close to calling on the West to bully Ukraine into accepting negotiations on terms that fall very far short of its current war aims.
Posted by Palmerston 2022-05-24 08:32||   2022-05-24 08:32|| Front Page Top

#3 Ref #1: And if the nukes fly? Well, globalists are of the opinion that the planet is overpopulated anyway. A few billion dead is a plus, particularly if they're those deplorable Americans. It's win-win.

Dead Trump voters or vaporized urban yoots, makes no difference to the Deep State and Bill Gates crowd.

Posted by Besoeker 2022-05-24 08:36||   2022-05-24 08:36|| Front Page Top

#4 #2 - Your rape is ineveitable. Best if you just lie back and enjoy it

/Kremlin Stooge
Posted by Frank G 2022-05-24 08:47||   2022-05-24 08:47|| Front Page Top

#5 Veteran US statesman Henry Kissinger

Is Kissinger a wise elder statesman or a murderous US warmonger? I've kinda lost track. Also, can we mention Kissinger without at least a passing nod to Jill St. John?
Posted by SteveS 2022-05-24 08:53||   2022-05-24 08:53|| Front Page Top

#6 /\ Is Kissinger a wise elder statesman or a murderous US warmonger?

Neither! He's a former US intelligence officer, displaced Antwerp Diamantkwartier, and China apologist.
Posted by Besoeker 2022-05-24 08:58||   2022-05-24 08:58|| Front Page Top

#7 Macron is urging an end to the war based on trading land for peace. So is Draghi. So is US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who is encouraging a ceasefire in calls to his counterpart.

Kissinger is stating the obvious. Eloquently and shrewdly as always, but everyone with a cool eye and a sound mind can see that there is no alternative to a peace settlement that requires Ukraine to give up Crimea and the Donbas.
Posted by Palmerston 2022-05-24 09:15||   2022-05-24 09:15|| Front Page Top

#8 displaced Antwerp Diamantkwartier

^ That's an uncharacteristically nasty and anti-Semitic lie from a poster who knows better. I'm very surprised to read this.

Kissinger's family was from Furth, Germany. They had no connection at all to either Antwerp or the diamond trade. His father, Louis Kissinger, was a teacher who was forced out of his position by the Nazis in 1938. The family left for England and then made their way to New York where his father took up employment in a brush factory and the Son excelled in US public schools. He served honorably in the Army and wrote movingly (essay, "The Eternal Jew") about his encounters with Nazi concentration camps.

Attack Kissinger's logic or arguments all you like but vile anti-Semitic slurs have no place here.
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-24 09:29||   2022-05-24 09:29|| Front Page Top

#9 /\ I am sure the 70,000+ Americans who lost their lives via his SE Asia vision and 'leadership' as Secretary of State might not agree. Worship at the alter of the Globalist, Kissinger Associates, Inc. if you must. Certainly your privilege. Meir, Dayan, and Netanyahu were great visionaries and leaders. Not everyone who keeps the Shabbat should be revered.
Posted by Besoeker 2022-05-24 09:46||   2022-05-24 09:46|| Front Page Top

#10 Notice that everyone urging trading Ukrainian land for temporary Soviet peace is NOT UKRAINIAN?
Posted by Frank G 2022-05-24 09:51||   2022-05-24 09:51|| Front Page Top

#11 Attack Kissinger's logic or arguments

That would be quite difficult. His logic is compelling. Especially this:

“I hope the Ukrainians will match the heroism they have shown with wisdom,” Kissinger said, adding with his famous sense of realpolitik that the proper role for the country is to be a neutral buffer state rather than the frontier of Europe.

This is exactly correct. There can be no peace or security in Europe until Ukraine becomes a neutral buffer state. It cannot be a fault line without causing endless wars.

Kissinger is also persuasive in his critique of the futile and self-destructive attempts to isolate a nation as large and important as Russia.

Kissinger told the World Economic Forum that Russia had been an essential part of Europe for 400 years and had been the guarantor of the European balance of power structure at critical times. European leaders should not lose sight of the longer term relationship, and nor should they risk pushing Russia into a permanent alliance with China.

Kissinger, the master of triangulation, understands this danger better than anyone. This is a far greater danger to the West than the threat of Russian aggression.

The comments came amid growing signs that the Western coalition against Vladimir Putin is fraying badly as the food and energy crisis deepens, and that sanctions may have reached their limits.

It's clear to everyone that now is the time to cut our losses and settle. To join wisdom to heroism, as Kissinger says.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-24 09:56||   2022-05-24 09:56|| Front Page Top

#12 Sorry, but Kissinger sold America out to the Chinese. He was among the Washington establishment that promoted economic integration at the expense of the American worker. Class One Globalist. Zero wisdom in that.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-24 09:59||   2022-05-24 09:59|| Front Page Top

#13 /\ Kissinger is also persuasive in his critique of the futile and self-destructive attempts to isolate a nation as large and important as Russia.

It must surely have been the Ukrainian paratroopers descending upon the Kremlin that set Putin off. Yes, that must have been the root cause of the conflict.
Posted by Besoeker 2022-05-24 10:06||   2022-05-24 10:06|| Front Page Top

#14 The arguments, if that's what they are, being put forth here are incoherent.

One angry riposte is that Kissinger caused the war in Vietnam, when it was Kennedy who inherited it from Eisenhower who inherited it from the French. Kissinger and Nixon extricated the US from the labyrinth that their Democratic predecessors had plunged into.

Also, the "globalist" slur is very strange in view of the opposition to the war from American anti-globalists such as Senators Rand Paul and Joshua Hawley.

Also, the bizarre comment implying that Ukrainians alone should be allowed to determine the outcome of a war that is destroying the global economy and threatening to make the West significantly weaker and poorer.

The South Vietnamese did not negotiate with the Viet Cong; the US president and his Secretary of State did. The Ukrainian president must have a voice but not the determining one. The world has too much at stake for our interests to be defined solely in terms of our client state's immediate desires.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-24 10:09||   2022-05-24 10:09|| Front Page Top

#15 So ending the globalists' favorite war is actually a sinister globalist plot? Those globalists are infinitely subtle.

Also sorry to see the poster refusing to back down from his earlier anti-Semitic "diamond dealer" slur. Pity.
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-24 10:16||   2022-05-24 10:16|| Front Page Top

#16 /\ The arguments, if that's what they are, being put forth here are incoherent.

The defense of globalism and men like Kissinger and Soros are hallmarks of "incoherence."

You do know the definition of 'metaphor' or perhaps you need a primer on Afrikan 'blood diamonds?'

My last on it. The garden calls.

Posted by Besoeker 2022-05-24 10:18||   2022-05-24 10:18|| Front Page Top

#17 "Diamond dealer" is an ancient slur against the Orthodox Jewry of New York and Western Europe.
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-24 10:28||   2022-05-24 10:28|| Front Page Top

#18 Democrats prolonged the war in Vietnam. Kissinger and Nixon signed a peace treaty and disentangled us from it.

Democrats want to prolong the war in Ukraine and plunge us deeper into that swamp. Kissinger wants to end the war and disentangle us from it.

I'm with Kissinger.
Posted by Oye Como Va 2022-05-24 10:35||   2022-05-24 10:35|| Front Page Top

#19 Appealing to Kissinger is nothing less than appeal to authority. He has demonstrated by the consequence of his actions that as such he holds no 'authority' when it comes to interests of average Americans.

Look I understand you. Three principles of human behavior - hierarchical, tribal, and territorial. Your loyalty is to your tribe, rationalize it as much as you want. Your tribe is now engaged in outright territorial aggrandizement against another tribe with a distinct identity, loyalty, and sense of territoriality of their own. Everything else is just rationalization.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-24 11:05||   2022-05-24 11:05|| Front Page Top

#20 It's easiest to interpret the trolls and other peddlers of the Moscow line as being Putin's wish fulfillment, telling us what he would like to happen. The first level message is 'give up, let me keep my ill-gotten gains'. The second level is that the Russian offensive has nearly culminated, and he'd rather not find out if Ukraine can actually mount a counter-offensive.
Posted by Nero 2022-05-24 11:10||   2022-05-24 11:10|| Front Page Top

#21 So the Russians are planning to escalate to gas, and want to get their spin out ahead.
Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-05-24 11:11||   2022-05-24 11:11|| Front Page Top

#22 Appealing to Kissinger is nothing less than appeal to authority.

It's an appeal to logic. Everyone can see that the logical thing to do now is to move toward a settlement that involves trading territory for peace. All of Europe's leaders are moving in this direction.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-24 11:24||   2022-05-24 11:24|| Front Page Top

#23 War is not logical but behavioral. Keep rationalizing.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-24 11:26||   2022-05-24 11:26|| Front Page Top

#24 Your loyalty is to your tribe

What is with all these anti-Semitic attacks? What does my or Kissinger's being Jewish have to do with anything?
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-24 11:30||   2022-05-24 11:30|| Front Page Top

#25 War is not logical but behavioral. Keep rationalizing.

The goal is to end the war, not prolong it. Some people are seriously confused here.
Posted by Oye Como Va 2022-05-24 11:37||   2022-05-24 11:37|| Front Page Top

#26 All of Europe's leaders are moving in this direction.

And that's a herd of lemmings worth following!
Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-05-24 11:48||   2022-05-24 11:48|| Front Page Top

#27  reports from Davis that Kissinger has added his voice to calls for the US to force Ukraine to trade land for peace:

Realpolitiking to the last, which is certainly an internally consistent viewpoint. Though it’s proven wrong as often as right, even when Dr. Kissinger was the face of American international policy. During the Yom Kippur War in 1973, for instance, he would have left Israel hanging in the wind, just as he made it plain America was uninterested in the fate of the Soviet Jews; President Nixon had to override his orders in order to ship Israel the bullets and so forth they needed to win.

He is two years older than my mother, and from the other end of Germany, my mother being from near Hannover. He and his parents escaped to America around the same time as my mother and her parents got to Amsterdam, where they were stuck for the duration — so Mama’s understanding of the world, as a result of her very different experiences, is nothing like his, despite also having a PhD (or in her case, nearly two, but she feels no need to swan around about such things).

I’ve been to the diamond quarter in Antwerp, though not since the end of the last century. About half the dealers were the native Orthodox Jews, a quarter were very modern Israelis, branching out from the trade in Israel, and the remainder were from India. I had no idea that was considered an insult, which shows how sheltered I’ve been. Nor has Besoeker ever been anything but the gallant gentleman to me.
Posted by trailing wife 2022-05-24 12:22||   2022-05-24 12:22|| Front Page Top

#28 The goal is to end the war, not prolong it.

Under conditions favorable to your tribe.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-24 12:33||   2022-05-24 12:33|| Front Page Top

#29 Seeing that we are footing the rest of the bill for this, I vote we we sweeten the pot by offering to cede SanFrancisco as part of the peace process - as is.
Posted by Super Hose 2022-05-24 12:47||   2022-05-24 12:47|| Front Page Top

#30 Seeing that we are footing the rest of the bill for this, I vote we we sweeten the pot by offering to cede SanFrancisco as part of the peace process - as is.

Russians would nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Posted by badanov 2022-05-24 12:51||   2022-05-24 12:51|| Front Page Top

#31 ^ golf clap
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-24 12:54||   2022-05-24 12:54|| Front Page Top

#32 Did somebody mention Jill St. John?

Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-05-24 13:03||   2022-05-24 13:03|| Front Page Top

#33 Max Hastings of The Times calls for peace:

Ukraine must seek peace talks to have any hope of revival
The West should stop gloating over Russian losses and focus on a deal
Posted by Palmerston 2022-05-24 13:06||   2022-05-24 13:06|| Front Page Top

#34 I think Chief Wahoo is just trying find loose threads.

If it makes you feel better, I don't think anyone here has confused you as being Kissenger's equal.

And Kissenger? Kissenger wants to end the war? Where has he been the last 6 weeks, shaving the dog's ass? This is them working on un-assing themselves before people find out where the $40billion went and the increased charges for such services. I'd bet a hogeshead of beer that if Albright were still topside, she'd be out there too pimping a similar message.

I'd bet another hogshead that Elenskyy is in for a rude awakening if he thinks he made the insider ring instead of being a backwater salesman whose popularity was as hot and fleeting as swamp rock.
Posted by swksvolFF 2022-05-24 13:23||   2022-05-24 13:23|| Front Page Top

#35  Ukraine must seek peace talks to have any hope of revival

Correct. Each month the war is prolonged adds about $70 billion to the cost of reviving Ukraine's dead economy.

Public opinion in Europe and the United States is turning against the war. The West simply doesn't have the resources to rebuild Ukraine. Trying to do so during a time of hyperinflation and fuel and even food scarcity will send the West into a downward spiral.

The leadership recognises this, which is why we're hearing so many calls for peace now. The Western economies cannot afford for the war to continue more than another month or two at most.
Posted by Jean-Paul 2022-05-24 13:43||   2022-05-24 13:43|| Front Page Top

#36 Each month the war is prolonged adds about $70 billion to the cost of reviving Ukraine's dead economy.

That's a low estimate that doesn't include ongoing operations. Uncle Sam us now paying the bills for the Ukrainian government -- paymaster for the Ukrainian military, all Ukrainian civil servants, plus pensions. And all the graft that comes with such a corrupt country.

All of that is another $10 billion per month at least. This war's bill will exceed $1 trillion very quickly. When the people realize how much they're paying for it, support for prolonging the war will evaporate.
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-24 13:56||   2022-05-24 13:56|| Front Page Top

#37 support for prolonging the war will evaporate

The support of the proles is irrelevant to those driving this thing.
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-05-24 13:58||   2022-05-24 13:58|| Front Page Top

#38 Kissinger's role in the American relationship with China is suspect to say the least. If he wants an end to the war in Ukraine it's most likely because he thinks it's bad for business...his business, that is. He doesn't care about yours.

That said, Crimea was never Ukrainian until Khrushchev made it so in 1954 when, after all, it was all part of the USSR so it didn't matter. As for the rest of the border between Ukraine and Russia, and the ethnic composition of those border regions, the disputes have likely gone on for centuries or even millennia. It was always either the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union that kept things from boiling over. Now that Ukraine is independent, which it never was until the Soviet Union collapsed, these disputes would be ideally settled peacefully by elections. But fat chance of that.

Whatever. Ukraine is not Poland, Lithuania, Finland or even Kazakhstan.

And then there's NATO. Some of you discount Putin's paranoia about NATO/Biden/Deep State intentions. But do you really trust Biden when he says his intentions are strictly peaceful? Can you not understand why Putin doesn't trust him? Do you believe that the State Department and CIA were not involved in the Maidan Coup or do you not care? I would wager that at this very moment a group of Deep State and/or State Department wonks are studying a map of Eastern Europe as if it is a geopolitical chess board...and they don't mean Putin any good. If it wasn't so, Biden wouldn't have been so insistent about NATO expanding into Ukraine. Biden wants this war because he thinks Ukraine can win. He'd be calling for negotiations if he didn't.

And, exactly, what do we gain by Ukraine's membership in NATO? Honestly, I can't think of anything unless it has something to do with the enrichment of the Biden family.

Further, we have the question of what happens in Russia when they lose big time and the oligarchs decide it's time for a putsch? Who knows the answer to this question? Will it be like Poland or will it be like Libya with nukes and Biden standing aside wringing his hands? Kissinger, whatever his faults, has a point about the danger of destabilizing Russia.

Ukraine is outside of the traditional American sphere of influence but well within Russia's. I think very few Americans, and certainly not Biden, know much of anything about the history of that part of the world. And why should we any more than we knew about Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietnam? All messes, all made worse by American intervention.

It's none of our business and we should stay out of it.
Posted by Abu Uluque 2022-05-24 14:11||   2022-05-24 14:11|| Front Page Top

#39 ^ If people like Nuland and Vindman have a brief for Ukraine, then I'm opposed.
Posted by M. Murcek 2022-05-24 14:20||   2022-05-24 14:20|| Front Page Top

#40 Public opinion in Europe and the United States is turning against the war

Dude fails to notice that public opinion has landslided against the current occupant of the White House. That is going to do squat to change anything. Since when has the governing class done anything other than what they want which is why they went bat crazy over 2016 and continue with policies and actions totally disconnected from the public's interest.
Posted by Procopius2k 2022-05-24 15:34||   2022-05-24 15:34|| Front Page Top

#41 No opinion matters outside Putin's "head". He started the war, he can end the war. Public opinion in Europe and the US only matters to whether the Ukrainians have a chance of surviving.
Posted by Rob Crawford 2022-05-24 16:48||   2022-05-24 16:48|| Front Page Top

#42 "I'm sorry baby Ukraine. I love you sooo much. I only hit you cause we're meant for each other. Gimme a hug land"
Posted by Frank G 2022-05-24 19:30||   2022-05-24 19:30|| Front Page Top

#43 This war's bill will exceed $1 trillion very quickly. When the people realize how much they're paying for it, support for prolonging the war will evaporate.

Pete Buttigieg, in Europe, Says U.S. Backs ‘Marshall Plan’ to Rebuild Ukraine

🤑

Do I hear... two trillion? Two trillion.. who's got two?
THREE TRILLION.. gimme three...
Posted by Oye Como Va 2022-05-24 20:26||   2022-05-24 20:26|| Front Page Top

#44 Pete Buttigieg, in Europe, Says U.S. Backs ‘Marshall Plan’ to Rebuild Ukraine

Hard to believe this. The fool who doesn't even show up for his day job jets off to Eastern Europe proposing to spend trillions we don't have on a shithole 8,000 miles away from our shores.... while we can't even get basic goods in our own stores at home.

Beyond parody -- except it's not funny anymore. These freaks are intent on destroying America.
Posted by Billy Budd 2022-05-24 21:21||   2022-05-24 21:21|| Front Page Top

#45 Buttgig's already found an Ambassador at Large for his Build Backdoor Better in Ukraine Plan
Posted by Oye Como Va 2022-05-24 22:40||   2022-05-24 22:40|| Front Page Top

#46 Go back to post #14 agreed. Thank you.
Prior to that, FrankG, funny how posts disappear on this site.
Posted by The Walking Unvaxed 2022-05-24 23:41||   2022-05-24 23:41|| Front Page Top

23:59 Creretle Grumble6164
23:48 The Walking Unvaxed
23:45 The Walking Unvaxed
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23:39 trailing wife
22:40 Oye Como Va
22:13 Rob Crawford
21:25 trailing wife
21:21 Billy Budd
21:05 Slenter Panda4300
20:31 Secret Master
20:26 Oye Como Va
20:23 magpie
20:22 magpie
20:21 magpie
19:39 KBK
19:34 Frank G
19:32 magpie
19:32 Frank G
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17:43 Chris
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