Interior Minister Prince Naif yesterday called Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden a silly intelligence agent. He also refuted Western allegations that Saudi Arabia was supporting Bin Laden and his terrorist organization. How can the government of Saudi Arabia support an organization that targets and kills its own people, he said while addressing a meeting of the directors and senior officials of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.
Bin Laden is a silly person and an intelligence agent. He is not a Saudi. He came from another county and obtained citizenship...
Bin Laden is a silly person and an intelligence agent. He is not a Saudi. He came from another county and obtained citizenship, the prince told the gathering that included Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh and Shoura Council Chairman Saleh Bin-Humaid.
Prince Naif said he would continue to support the commission and the purpose it stands for. The promotion of virtue and prevention of vice is the basic principle of Islam, he said, and urged the commissions officials to be lenient with people following the example of the Prophet (peace be upon him). I want to see this in reality.
The commission should get rid of those officials who are ignorant and unqualified, the prince said and urged its officials to be better organized. The Saudi government is powerful with the grace of Allah, thanks to its application of the Shariah as its constitution, the prince said, adding that the Kingdom was targeted by its enemies who use Arabs and Muslims as tools to try to destroy it.
People who are not qualified to be Islamic propagators should stay away from that job and leave it to qualified hands...
He said religious scholars have a duty of guiding youth and the younger generation onto the right track. He also said that jihad for Muslims, particularly Saudis, is the jihad against people who promote distorted ideas. People who are not qualified to be Islamic propagators should stay away from that job and leave it to qualified hands.
Naif accused foreign Arab preachers of spreading extremism and deviant ideas in the Kingdom. It is unfortunate that many preachers from Arab countries, whom the Kingdom supported, propagated distorted ideas and brainwashed our youth, he explained. Those who know Saudis of the older generation are well aware of the ethics and morals of Saudis, he added.
He urged Saudi religious scholars not be silent and speak out against extremists and deviants. The brainwashed Saudi extremists who took part in the latest terrorist attack in Jeddah were forcing security men to kill innocent people. Security officers took 19 hours to evacuate all citizens and residents form nearby buildings to safety.
Naif said that any person who does not believe in the ideals of this country and its institutions, its scholars and its right methodology should leave. They should not consider themselves part of this country, he warned. The enemies do not want Saudi Arabia to exist. This amounts to saying Islam cannot be established in a country, the prince said.
How can we call the West progressive when they allow their wives to indulge in vices?. On the other hand, we are willing to sacrifice our lives and souls for the sake of our religion, morals and country...
He emphasized the role of universities and media organizations in educating the Saudi youth and enhancing their awareness. Naif told Saudis that imitating the West was not a sign of progress. They are backward and we are forward with our moral values, he asserted. How can we call the West progressive when they allow their wives to indulge in vices, he asked. On the other hand, we are willing to sacrifice our lives and souls for the sake of our religion, morals and country, he added.
Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Gaith, the president of the commission, said it handled with privacy 95 percent of the cases that were reported to the organization. He said the commission has started employing highly qualified persons as the majority of them hold masters and doctoral degrees. We have also expanded training programs to better prepare our officials for field jobs and to enhance their performance, he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Iff Osama is an INTEL Agent-Oper then same must must be said for "Zawahiri" + Zarkey + ........, etal. Guess this means no Buchi Buchi for Osama & Co. I fail to see how GOD-BASED TOTALITARIANISM + UNIVERSAL GOVT-ISM = FREEDOM, INDEPENDENCE, + FREE MARKET CAPITALISM-PROSPERITY. Its one thing to argue that Corruption, Graft, + Nepotism(s), etc exists in DEMOCRATIC-PARTICIPATORY Govt, its quite another to argue to replace same wid SOMETHING(S) WORSE. * "DEMOCRACY IS THE WORST FORM OF GOVT., EXCEPT FOR ALL THE OTHERS".
Interior Minister Prince Naif yesterday called Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden a silly intelligence agent.
What is this, some weird alternate universe Python bit? Silly walks, silly intelligence, sheesh...
How can the government of Saudi Arabia support an organization that targets and kills its own people, he said while addressing a meeting of the directors and senior officials of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.
Oh, great...a madman addressing lunatics. Guessing that was a fun afternoon of good food, good company, and seething like you wouldn't believe.
Those who know Saudis of the older generation are well aware of the ethics and morals of Saudis, he added.
You said, it, brother. More hummus?
Security officers took 19 hours to evacuate all citizens and residents form nearby buildings to safety.
"Mind you, the bad guyz got away after 2 hours, but STILL..."
He said religious scholars have a duty of guiding youth and the younger generation onto the right track. He also said that jihad for Muslims, particularly Saudis, is the jihad against people who promote distorted ideas. People who are not qualified to be Islamic propagators should stay away from that job and leave it to qualified hands
Man, I'm sorry, but Joe
is more lucid than THAT..
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
09/21/2006 9:19 Comments ||
Top||
#3
. How can we call the West progressive when they allow their wives to indulge in vices,
allow? Allow? ALLOW? Sorry asshole my wife is a human being and capable of making her own choices. She is not my slave, serf or property!!
Why don't you get your chicken-shit ass over here and I'll let her explain things to you personally!
It's been a while but I'm sure she still remembers the proper use of a baling hook.
#4
AlanC, you have nailed the basic problem with most fundamentalists.
I think God designed the world so there are choices. Good ones and bad ones. Your eternal endgame depends upon the selections you make. The Fundamentalists want to remove the bad ones which undoes the will of God.
I also think God put riddles out there and wants us to discover them because they unlock additional choices. Thus sciences is good and fundamentalists fighting science is bad. Yeah a lot of scientists are tools when it comes to religion but hate the player, not the game.
The men who barracked John Reid yesterday are leading Islamist radicals in Britain who have come to the attention of police on several occasions. Abu Izzadeen, the first to clash with the home secretary, attracted opprobrium and headlines when he refused to condemn the July 7 attacks on London. He has admitted attending camps in Britain and abroad to receive military training. Mr Izzadeen was spokesman for al-Ghurabaa, which its leaders now claim is disbanded. It was one of several successor groups to al-Muhajiroun, and both were believed to have been led by the extremist Omar Bakri Mohammed. Both groups are now banned.
He told the BBC that the tube bombings had been "mujahideen activity" which would make people "wake up and smell the coffee". He said: "What I would say about those who do suicide operations or martyrdom operations is they're completely praiseworthy. I have no allegiance to the Queen whatsoever or to British society." Mr Izzadeen, 30, is also known as Omar Brooks and converted to Islam aged 17. His comments on the July 7 attacks led to the possibility of treason charges being brought against him, though officials say no decision has yet been made.
Mr Reid was also barracked by Anjem Choudary, who was a spokesman for Omar Bakri's organisations. He now says he does not belong to any group, but lectures at the London-based School of Sharia. At a protest outside the Danish embassy in London earlier this year, he said: "The fact is that 7/7 was brought upon the people of London and Britain by the foreign policy of Tony Blair. There is no reason why there should not be more suicide bombings in London."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"What I would say about those who do suicide operations or martyrdom operations is they're completely praiseworthy"
Then why don't you quit praising and start participating, you worthless asshole? Oh, yeah - that's right - you're another Lion pussy coward of Islam™.
"I have no allegiance to the Queen whatsoever or to British society"
Then why don't you get the fuck out of Albion and go live in some hellhole more to your liking. HELL comes to mind.
I'll even be willing to help you with transportation....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/21/2006 1:03 Comments ||
Top||
#2
at what point is enough?
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 1:23 Comments ||
Top||
#3
He wont leave because like all the other radicals they are scrounging off the welfare state.They dont work but still bite the hand that feeds them.
Dispicable cowards who know if they went to any other country they would have to work for a living!!!!
#6
Mr Izzadeen was spokesman for al-Ghurabaa, which its leaders now claim is disbandedrenamed.
Slingshot this seditious turd straight back to his country of origin. If upon his return home this worthless shithead faces the possibility of torture, so much the better.
#8
We need that suicide phone booth they had in "Furutama", except remodel it as a "Martyrdom Exercise Service System". They step inside and are martyred on the spot. No unnecessary loss of life, no mess, no waiting.
#13
They've caused problems previously. You've been watching them. They're considered dangerous. Nuff said. Get off your arses and do something. Quit watching and get something done. Difference between Brits & Americans.
#15
Brilliant. The fanatic jihadiis contintue to define themselves for the educational benefit of all:
"What I would say about those who do suicide operations or martyrdom operations is they're completely praiseworthy. I have no allegiance to the Queen whatsoever or to British society."
It's up to the civilized world to go after them. Again--what would we do if these were a bunch of homegrown types? Don't know about Britain, but over here the FBI would be all over it. Just because they espouse a different religion does not allow then to live above the law. As for spouting off--we have freedom of speech too, up to the point of shouting fire in a crowded theatre.
#16
As for spouting off--we have freedom of speech too, up to the point of shouting fire in a crowded theatre.
This has little, if anything, to do with preventing the instigation of panic in a crowded public place. Other types of speech are proscribed by statute as well. This instance falls more closely under the category of making death threats, something the law takes a rather dim view of.
From East Asia Intel, subscription.
North Koreas government recently rebuffed appeals from senior Chinese officials to return to the six-party nuclear talks, and Beijing rewarded the intransigence with additional cash payments. Here, have some money, Kimmie. Keep the pot boiling on the Peninsula.
The appeal was made during the visit in late August by Chinese State Counselor Tang Jiaxuan who had carried a personal letter for Kim from Chinese President Hu Jintao. Tang was snubbed by North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il. "Just leave the briefcase full of counterfeit US C notes cash with the receptionist. I am too busy to talk to you today, Mr. Tang. Good day.
The North Korea action did not deter Tang from offering an additional cash payment to the North Korea, sources said.
U.S. officials viewed the Tang visit and the North Korean response as a clear sign that North Korea is no longer interested in taking part in the six-party nuclear talks with China, the United States, Japan, Russia and South Korea. Neither is the US. They are catering affairs with no substance.
Despite the negative treatment of Tang, China is still opposed to using its leverage against the Kim regime, which is heavily reliant on Chinese aide, to force Pyongyang back to the negotiating table. The Chinese dont want sanctions, one official said. They just want to talk and the North Koreans are not responding. And that is just what the ChiComs want. Talk talk talk. Wear down the allies.
Meanwhile, U.S. officials said there is no evidence that Kim Jong-Il recently traveled to China, although they did not rule out the possibility that the North Korean leader had made a secret trip. Publicly announced trips could get him splattered all over the railway tracks by his many enemies.
The arrival of a special train that had previously transported Kim to the North Korean-Chinese border had triggered reports of a visit to China. One official said that it was possible that Kim visited China, but it would have meant that Beijing was able to carry out the visit in utmost secrecy. They would have to be very, very good to have pulled that off, the official said.
They are very, very good at intel and quiet ops.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
09/21/2006 14:37 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Here, have some money, Kimmie. Keep the pot boiling on the Peninsula.
Yup, further proof that China has zero intention of seeking any solution to the North Korean crisis. China has bred up this rabid animal and likes to keep it chained on the porch to discourage any adventurers in the region.
At some point, the gruesome deaths of so many North Korean civilians needs to be laid at China's door. Starvation and cannibalism are the legacy of the Politburo's meddling.
#2
I think the cash payment was less about buying off Kim to keep the trouble brewing than it was to stave off an implosion that China is unwilling and unready to deal with.
#3
While I understand the distinction you are making, rjschwarz, anything that delays the meltdown of North Korea essentially prolongs the problem and thereby exacerbates the crisis.
Additionally, unless you want to consider extra border guards to be of merit, China is doing exactly nothing to prepare for the flood of Noth Korean refugee that would result from any disintegration of the Kim regime. This is why I frame the arguement as being one of China's perpetuating the problem.
#4
I'm not saying its a good thing. Clinton and friends should have let the North Koreans melt down a decade ago when everyone was wealthy enough to absorb the costs and before they developed nukes.
#5
Hey zen,
the famine in the ninetys in NK resulted in a million or so refugees flooding north into china. The chinese government whilst riddled with corruption and beurocratic ennuie is patrolling the border think mexico/us rather than the 38th parallel.
#7
Zen, I'm with RJS on this one. I think that there is a whole lot of internal political turmoil in China that we have no idea about. From everything I've been reading they have a lot of different trouble from the Muzzies in the west to the miners to the rich business types of HK. Each one has its own dynamic in the polit-bureau. NK has to be handled by them in that context.
The fact that we don't KNOW what that context is makes it hard to assess all the motives involved here.
#8
The fact that we don't KNOW what that context is makes it hard to assess all the motives involved here.
Very much agreed. I also think that we're all on the same page here. I just want to make sure that China is, in some way, held accountable for the standing atrocity that North Korea is.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) has been censured by an Army court on the same day he agreed to a deal with the White House outlining new provisions for military justice in cases involving suspected terrorists.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces yesterday held that Sen. Graham violated the Incompatibility Clause of the Constitution when, as a Reservist, he sat on the Air Force's intermediate appellate court while also a member of the Senate.
According to one military law expert, there is no penalty for Graham, but the court overturned the case on which Graham sat, entitling the defendant to a whole new appellate review of his court-martial.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 19:11 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
In an abrupt reversal, a U.S. House of Representatives committee narrowly voted on Wednesday to endorse President George W. Bush's plan for tough interrogations and trials of foreign terrorism suspects after Republicans rounded up enough members. About an hour earlier, the House Judiciary Committee rejected Bush's plan, with three Republicans joining committee Democrats. Embarrassed Republicans then summoned absent members, called for another vote, and approved it 20-19. Bush's bill, which critics said would result in inhumane interrogations and unfair trials, has met even stiffer resistance in the Senate, and the White House is trying to work out a compromise.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Think maybe they got some calls from constituents more interested in survival of our country than in political posturing?
Or maybe Ahma'dinnah-jacket's rant speech at the Useless Nitwits got their attention.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
09/21/2006 1:06 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Holy F***ing $h!t, Batmat! They got something done! But maybe they were counting on the Senate to screw things up as usual.
This is a preview of what we'll get if the Dhimmicrats take power in November. Consider yourself warned.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Accusing Republicans of failing to adequately monitor the conduct of the war in Iraq, Senate Democrats on Wednesday announced their own series of hearings into what they called a failed policy.
Because in the past three years the MSM has ignored the war -- you hardly hear a peep on the news.
"Three years into war, the American people still don't have a clear picture of what's gone wrong in Iraq -- or how to set it right," said Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada. "We've been going backward for too long," he said.
Democrats said they had invited Republicans to attend the hearings, which will start in Washington on Monday and move across the country in October and November -- before and after the November 7 congressional elections in which control of both houses are at stake.
I think all the Dhimmi senators up for election this fall should do this -- traipse around the country holding hearing instead of campaigning back home.
Reid and other top Democrats told a news conference the current Congress had conducted fewer oversight hearings than previous wartime Congresses. They said lawmakers held 152 days of hearings on the Korean War and 328 days on Vietnam.
That's what we need, by gum, more hearings! We all know just how honest those hearings would be.
Republicans countered that they had held dozens of hearings and briefings on Iraq and the full Senate had debated many aspects of the war. "We all understand how important the war on terror is, especially the ongoing fighting in Iraq," said a spokeswoman for Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist. "It's no surprise, however, that on the day after a national poll showed improving American attitudes toward the liberation of Iraq that the Democrat leadership would want to change the subject."
Why not schedule a vote on the war for oh, mid-October? I'm sure the public would like to see all their senators on record just before the election.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Ted, our polls are off again.
John, it seems as tho Joe Six-Pack still doesn't get it.
Get what, Ted?
You know, John, our story on the Iraq war.
Well, gee, Ted...How will we ever convince them? Can we raise their IQ somehow?
Not to our level, John. They're not smart enough to be liberals.
I know, Ted - why don't we hold hearings!
Great idea, John! We can remind everyone that there never were any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that we should have continued diplomacy, like we are for Iran.
Yeah, Ted! That'll get us elected again, and restore the glory of the Democratic Party! Let's call Nancy and let her in on the plan!
Posted by: Fly on the Wall ||
09/21/2006 6:07 Comments ||
Top||
#2
I wonder who the target audience of these hearings is intended to be.
#1
Boeing has promised to have the system functioning within three years of the contract's award.
Ah, so not yet awarded / funded - but that's the purview of the House, where the RINO count is obviously a manageable handicap. Now if the good folks will turn out and vote - we can keep it so.
#3
Why go all high tech? seems to me the Minutemen had it right: just stick a f-ing fence in the way and that will slow the flow down. concentrate the border patrol where the flow doesn't slow and do what you need to. but if you must build towers, then perhaps fire hoses and nozzles filled with that sicky glue to pin the bad guys down in place would be more fun. stuck in the desert under a hot sun while the foam cured in place. sprinkle some sugar on before it dries and that would be even more entertaining.
FYI Perfesser: Seat selection / and interior design is the purview of the airlines, not Boeing.
#4
Fences, sand berms, and concrete barriers is level one. Quick and fast. Level two should be built a distance back and resemble the Great Wall of China. Tourist attraction and impassable.
Fences make great neighbors and I think most Yanks want to love our neighbors to the South, we really do, they just make it pretty hard at times.
#6
This is just pork. In this case, there is a strong "point of diminishing returns", as far as the border goes.
For instance, let's say you erect barriers on the 1% of the border where most crossers cross. It is effective in stopping 80% of the crossers, and thus is very cost-effective. Say it costs $50M.
You use some second measure, doesn't really matter what, that costs $200M, and reduces the number of crossers by another 10%. Far less cost effective, because you have passed the point of diminishing returns. However, it still might be *reasonable* to spend $250M to stop 90% total, of border crossers.
But a third measure, say watchtowers, cost EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS. On its own, ignoring the costs of the other two measures, it may promise to stop *another* 5% of border crossers, making the grand sum total 95% of crossers stopped. But is it worth EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS to stop only 5% of illegals?
That has really passed the law of diminishing returns, especially when even more measures would probably not stop even 1% of illegals, even if they cost hundreds of billions of dollars. 95% is the best that can be done, no matter the cost.
(Of course, actual statistics on this will vary from my examples.)
So this brings up a new issue: Some kinds of illegal immigrants the US can tolerate a little, like Mexicans, other kinds it cannot, like al-Qaeda coming in from Mexico. This suggests we need two very different solutions to the problems.
Keeping down the number of Mexicans entering the US is one issue, and plenty of argument there; but for keeping out the non-Mexican illegals, there is a simple and inexpensive method that could keep out very close to 100%.
That is, the US pay Mexicans a bounty for turning in non-Mexicans trying to sneak across the border.
Even by our standards a trivial sum of money, say from $100 to $30,000 for a major al-Qaeda, would seem like an incredible fortune South of the border. Thousands of hungry eyes would follow any foreigner who even approached the border.
Of course they would try to bribe the Mexicans to take them across, and the Mexicans would take their bribes before turning them over for the reward. The Mexicans might also just rip them off and leave them in the desert.
Any way, even if 5% of illegals can still get through the border, it will be almost 100% closed to any non-Mexican, possibly a terrorist.
#8
Actually, if you make the border crossing too difficult, you will see a major drop in the numbers of illegals trying to cross. One of the reasons we have so many people jumping the border is that it has been so easy to do so for so many years. It does not take a lot of effort to cross in a huge number of spots on the border, or used to be that easy. The more we expand the well-built southern fence, the more effort and danger the illegals will suffer trying to get across. At a certain tipping point, only the most committed will even bother to try. That in itself will reduce by a very large percentage the numbers trying to cross. Part of this will be that the true nature of the difficulty in crossing will take a couple of years to filter back throughout Mexico. Then the numbers heading north will slow simply because people will not wish to waste the effort, the money, the time on an increasing unlikely chance to make it through to El Norte.
In other words, the opportunistic crossers will be gone, and only the truly committed will remain.
#9
Open the door to your soul Thoth, you cheap bastard, stop hiding behind Satans couch, answer the doorbell of hope, it's only a dime quarter and we'll only be a minute.
#11
Yes, Jimi was one of the 177,000 lucky winners. Thoth has a ticket, but until he opens the venetian blinds of clear thinking and buys a Watchtower he can't rub off the glory.
#14
That is, the US pay Mexicans a bounty for turning in non-Mexicans trying to sneak across the border.
'moose, I have to assume you're talking about those who are not of Hispanic origin. Otherwise the bounty would count for Guatemalans, Hondurans and so forth. I'm confident that you intended this to sort out the Arab types.
#15
It's not an either-or thing, .com. Just a huge fence is worthless without someone to watch for scaling, tunneling, or driving a Mexican Army vehicle through. Observation posts alone can't see everywhere, so we need fences to channel them. And you need armed people to intercept.
#1
Require a 6-month combat experience for a JAG, especially in the current theater for those with less than 4 years of practice. Problem solved--they would either get killed, or gain a "perspective".
#2
My opinion of the legal 'profession' is well known. It goes double for those trying to protect terrorists while hanging our own out to dry and wearing the uniform of this nation at the same time.
#3
Sadly, "grounding" is required of all lawyers, JAG and civilian.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 1:25 Comments ||
Top||
#4
It's a most convenient two-fer. Politicians and bureaucrats tie our hands, while we take all the shit from people who have no idea what we do. A three-fer, actually, seeing as most of us remain in debt up to our eyeballs well into our 40s.
There's a reason I'm an ex JAG. Keep it up, gentlemen, and maybe more of us will say "fuck it."
#5
Why is that Ex? Were you hoping to do good, and became disillusioned by the bureaucracy?
Too liberal for you, or not liberal enough?
If more JAGs departed, would it be better, or worse, for the services?
What did you see your role to be while you were there?
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/21/2006 6:13 Comments ||
Top||
#6
After squelching that strike on the huge Taleban funeral, there needs to be a top-to-bottom review of JAG procedures. If field experience is what it takes, then so be it. All of our troops need to be fighting on the same side.
#8
Here is the lone comment from the StrategyPage piece. It gives you some insight into the depth of the moonbattery out there. Not that any of us have any doubts.
AlbanyRifles
JAG officers rotate through varied positions during their careers. Sometimes they are prosecutors and sometimes they are defense attorneys. Our legal tradition believes in a strong advocacy for the accused, no matter what their alleged crime, and that the hurly burly of the courtroom will lead to the vital truth.
The work of the various JAG officers in these cases is nothing more than what they are trained to do and are expected to do....they are to advocate within the law anything and everythign they can for their clients.
I would rather they do that for all and get one or two wrong than cherry pick and predetermine guilt or innocence.
Some folks insist that we treat terrorists and illegal combatants the same way we would treat American citizens charged with a crime. It is either stupidity writ large, or some devious mechanism for tying our hands. Or a combination. All I know is, something needs to be done, and it probably will not get done until a LOT of Americans had suffered horrible deaths. Only then will the rage of the sensible people drown out the whining and sniveling of the ankle biters.
#10
I've always believed the impact of 8 years of Clinton-Gore-Gorelic-Aspenism was far worse than we could learn from any open sources. I suspect Bush has kept it from us as well because he wanted to keep it from the enemy. Don Rumsfeld's memoirs could be goodies.
#11
The JAG should all be converted to election day poll watchers in our big cities with cameras. Then they would do good at least one day a year.
It's a start.
#12
Redneck, the vast majority of the time, the clients we advocate for are commanders.
Bobby, its not a question of too liberal/not liberal enough. Its a question of doing everything possible to help commanders accomplish the mission. Civilians make the rules, we digest and deliver them. And 95% of us construe that message as strongly, as favorably, as we can to our commanders, because we want them to crush the enemy and win.
JAG officers, as much as any of y'all, are infuriated and disgusted with the humane this and restrained that. They're in Afghanistan and Iraq, right next to the commanders and the troops, observing the consequences of our self-defeating ROE in first-hand anguish. But it is not within our power to change the rules: its up to Congress and the Pentagon or, up to the commander to ignore them. At this point, I would advise commanders to do exactly that, while I go make it all look good on paper for them. A commander willing to risk his career would get a lot of officers to follow suit. I am certain this already goes on, and it will continue so long as stupid rules deny us decisive victory.
Im in Zensters neighborhood when it comes to, ahem, "accomplishing the mission," and too often, our civilian leadership imposes rules on us that actively prevent this, no matter how much interpreting and construing we do. Thats the reason for the ex. Civilian leadership will not risk themselves, while ankle-biters on all sides blame us for the restrictive ROEs, so fuck it. I have a family to take care of and law school loans to pay off. Let some other douche deal with it, like, oh, say, my husband, who is still a JAG Corps NCO. Hopefully, not for much longer.
#13
exJAG - how many commanders who are 'disgusted' with the 'imposed' ROEs have publicly resigned over the issue. This is one of the points of Col. Harry Summers influential book On Strategy: The Vietnam War in Context. No General Officer ever resigned over the civilian handling of the war. They bitched about it afterward, but not during. A commander who is willing to send the young men out into danger but is unwilling to risk career advancement says a lot about careerism within the service.
#14
Thank you for elaborating, exJAG. Such firsthand insight as yours is valued quite highly here at Rantburg. If you feel so inclined, please hang around and give us the benefit of your experience whenever you feel it to be relevant.
This I can elaberate on for the commanders. Some are only concered about their careers (dubbed "lifers") and are despised by their troops. Most commanders stay in to, "modify" the rules they are given and to limit the damage stupid leadership rules do. You can't save your men from a meat grinder if you quit in disgust. They hold their nose and try to get the job done and bring all the boys home alive. Hopefully no one notices and they can get promoted to leadership positions next to the civilians so they can help change civilian thinking.
Vain hope for changing the thinking of Morlocks, but they keep trying.
#19
Thanks for the encouragement, gentlemen. A few parting remarks.
I know everyone is furious about the cemetery last week. None more than I, because I can picture exactly how it happened. But ROEs are not written in a vacuum; you'd be surprised at how much interference we get from the State Dept., which somehow gets to have a say in MOOTW. And that slime-pit of ignominy, I think you'll all agree, is where most of our problems trace back to.
It is not JAG procedures that need a top-to-bottom review. I realize we have some poofters who would be better suited to ambulance-chasing -- what profession doesn't. But the majority of us see ourselves as soldiers like any others, doing the best we can with what we're given. And frequently, what we're given is a steaming pile of diplo-tranzi horseshit.
We work for the warfighters, doing all we can to make sure they can do what they need to do. We cannot wiggle past every suicidally stupid obstacle every time, and yes, sometimes it's flatly because some pansy leftist gives terrible advice. But those occasional failures are all the public sees. Imagine how much worse it would be if, for example, State drafted all our ROEs, with no input from lawyers who understand that it's perfectly legal to kill people in wartime.
All I'm saying is that a headline screaming "Kill all the Military Lawyers" is pretty freakin outrageous. A friend of mine from OBC was among the 11 injured, badly, by that Akbar asshole's grenade in the TOC in Kuwait. A helicopter full of my colleagues was shot down near Tikrit in Nov 03, all dead; one was a week away from retiring in Hawaii. If that makes you happy, I may as well head over to the Daily Cooz or al-Jazeera for love like that.
#20
The term "civilian leadership in war time" is the oxymoron of all oxymorons. ExJag is spot on with regard to these silent uniformed colonels and generals. They all despise Rumsfeld and his cronnies with passion, but most wait until well after retirement to say if damn thing, if they ever do.
#22
Thanks, exJAG. RB's a rough place, especially so for lawyers, lol. Your info and understanding is very valuable to us and anyone else who cares about our survival. The majority here appreciates the bind you're in - fighting uphill every step of the way - and what you find time to share with us. I promise we won't kill all the lawyers, lol.
You should look for posts by Verlaine in Iraq - I'll bet you guys could compare notes and identify the specific wankers who keep fouling up the works in this war - for all of us.
#25
ex-JAG, appreciated your comments. But, as General Franks would attest, the problem with JAGs (as well as law firm associates in general), is putting law over practicality.
There are more Lindsey Grahams out there than not, where law reigns supreme, and the 'real' world be damned.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 19:24 Comments ||
Top||
NEW YORK (AP) - A federal judge on Wednesday ordered the Department of Defense to release documents detailing mistreatment or disciplinary action taken against detainees at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and other information sought by The Associated Press.
U.S. District Judge Jed S. Rakoff gave the government a week to provide the news organization with the information despite government claims that doing so would violate detainees' privacy. "The public interest in disclosing government malfeasance is well-established," the judge wrote in saying that the AP had demonstrated the need.
The public interest is also served by not disclosing information that might comfort our enemies, but the judge evidently didn't consider that.
David A. Schulz, who argued the case for the AP, called the judge's decision "a resounding victory for the public's right to know."
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Without even looking it up, with my eyes closed, Judge Jed is either a Carter or Clinton appointment, right?
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 1:27 Comments ||
Top||
#2
The AP (and this Judge) are actively working for the enemy. They are going to get these names of 'detainees' and then go ask them 'were you mistreated?'. (Gee I wonder what thei response will be...) Then make a big deal out of it. After all, dispite the lack of any envidence the Judge has already found the government 'guilty' of government malfeasance.
Why don't they go interview people who are imprisoned? After all -- they are all innocent aren't they?
GENEVA (AP) - The Red Thingy Cross expects to meet for the first time 14 high-level terrorism suspects who were recently transferred from CIA secret prisons to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, at a visit to the camp starting next week, a spokeswoman said Wednesday.
Antonella Notari, chief spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Thingy Cross, said officials will arrive Monday for a scheduled two-week visit to Guantanamo. The ICTRC is the only neutral agency with full access to Guantanamo detainees. "There is no reason to believe that there should be a problem seeing these detainees in the course of the visit," she said. "The priority of the upcoming mission is to talk in private and to register the newly transferred detainees and to provide them the means to communicate with their family members through Red Thingy Cross messages."
Notari said it was still unclear on which day the first meetings with the new detainees would take place. President Bush announced their transfer earlier this month to Guantanamo from clandestine detention centers overseas, clearing the way for ICTRC visits.
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
whoever said the red cross gets what they want?
The biggest militant group fighting Indian rule in held Kashmir on Wednesday offered a conditional cease-fire during Ramadan, which is set to begin next week.
Ehsan Elahi, chief spokesman for the Hizb-ul Mujahedeen group, said the limited cease-fire depended on Indian troop reductions on its side of the Line of Control. "If the Indian government agrees to scale down troop presence, stop human rights violations and release all political prisoners, we will also consider a cease-fire in attacks against them during Ramadan," Elahi told The Associated Press.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[6 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Translation: If we get everything we want, we'll think about giving you something.
Soviet-style negotiating.
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/21/2006 6:14 Comments ||
Top||
#2
"If the Indian government agrees to scale down troop presence, stop human rights violations and release all political prisoners, we will also consider a cease-fire in attacks against them during Ramadan," Elahi told The Associated Press.
The pony, fer crimeny sakes, they left out the pony! Have Muslims ever shown the least respect for Hindu or Jewish holidays? I'm confident they regard them as nothing more than target rich intervals. Screw these maggots and the turd they rode in on. Catch them while they're hungry and low blood sugar is interfering with their aim judgement and endurance.
President George W. Bush said Wednesday he would order military action inside Pakistan if intelligence indicated Osama bin Laden or other top terror leaders were hiding there. Bush was asked by CNN's Wolf Blitzer whether he would give the order for American troops to kill or capture bin Laden or other terror leaders if good intelligence pointed to their whereabouts, even if it were inside Pakistan's borders. "Absolutely," said Bush. "We would take the action necessary to bring them to justice."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[2 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Still missing it, George. We aren't really interested in "bringing him to justice", we just want him dead. Doorknob dead. Oh, and sooner would be better than later.
#2
TA4026: Still missing it, George. We aren't really interested in "bringing him to justice", we just want him dead. Doorknob dead. Oh, and sooner would be better than later.
This is euphemism employed for the benefit of the countries cooperating with us. Euros don't like hearing about capital punishment on the fly. Muslims don't like hearing about the death of one of the faithful, even if he happens to be a mass murderer. I expect that when the time comes, we will kill him if he puts GI's lives at risk. All the same, I'll like for our interrogators to give him the third degree and squeeze him dry on what he knows about al Qaeda before we try him and string him up. I can't imagine Congress giving GWB any trouble about stomping bin Laden for info - they do want to get re-elected.
#3
Battlefield justice, quick, efficient, and NO lawyers
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 1:28 Comments ||
Top||
#4
No I want him taken alive, then a ceremony in front of the White House where we cut off his head and stick it on a spike. Then we invite Amanutjob and his friend Hugo "I wish I was Castro" Chevez to come to the WH so they can walk past it.
#5
All the same, I'll like for our interrogators to give him the third degree and squeeze him dry on what he knows about al Qaeda before we try him and string him up. I can't imagine Congress giving GWB any trouble about stomping bin Laden for info - they do want to get re-elected.
Word, ZF. We want this maggot alive. He should be tried in an American military courts martial. When we execute him, it needs to be live on camera and we should piggyback a 24-7 loop of the piped video onto al-Jazeera's and al Manar's frequencies for their audiences' viewing pleasure.
#6
In reality, it's a corporal's call. If he is killed in the operation, you'd think anyone had the balls to court martial the lad? The political firestorm would consume anyone who pushed the deal. Just harrassing him would be stupid. Once the lad was out, he'd be a sitting member of Congress after the next election.
#8
We aren't really interested in bringing him to justice, we just want him dead.
Seems to me the first choice would be to capture him alive and eliminate the whole martyrdom thingy. Id even suggest, while in detention, provide him with the best kidney dialyses money can buy and pucker the collective Islamo sphincter. On the other hand, OBL snuffed aint a bad second choice.
#9
I would prefer he be captured alive. The fact that catching Saddam in the spider-hole caused so many people to seeth and rip out there hair that getting Binnie alive has to provide some extra thrills.
I wouldn't look forward to the trial though. It would put the OJ trial to shame with the media coverage that would follow.
#10
It would put the OJ trial to shame with the media coverage that would follow.
Dollars to doughnuts no administration of any stripe would be idiotic enough to put bin Laden on public trial. This is what military tribunals were designed for.
The world's "moment of truth" regarding Iran has arrived, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni told the United Nations General Assembly Wednesday night, adding that the international community knows well the "lessons of the past" and the "consequences of appeasement and indifference."
What more needs to happen for the world to take this threat seriously? What more needs to happen to end the hesitation and the excuses? The international community is faced with no greater responsibility than to stand against this dark and growing danger...
Iran doesn't deserve a seat in the United Nations or among the family of nations, she said, telling the world leaders gathered in New York that there was "no greater challenge" today to the values of the democratic world "than that posed by the leaders of Iran."
"They deny and mock the Holocaust," she said. "They speak proudly and openly of their desire to wipe Israel off the map." Chiding the UN, which has been dragging its feet for months on whether to clamp sanctions on Teheran for not stopping its uranium enrichment, Livni asked, "What more needs to happen for the world to take this threat seriously? What more needs to happen to end the hesitation and the excuses? The international community is faced with no greater responsibility than to stand against this dark and growing danger - not for Israel's sake, but for its own; for the sake of the values it claims to embrace; for the sake of the world we all wish our children to inherit."
Livni's blunt, harsh words against Iran were not universally applauded in Jerusalem...
Livni's blunt, harsh words against Iran were not universally applauded in Jerusalem, with one diplomatic official saying that Israel was making a mistake in becoming the spokesman for the anti-Iranian coalition. "The Saudis are as afraid of Iranian getting the bomb as we are," the Israeli official said. "But when we stand there and shout from the rooftops, they don't have to - we are essentially doing their dirty work." The official said Israel should discreetly provide the international community with the relevant intelligence information regarding Iran, but should not take the lead in attacking Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his regime.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
It's nice someone can respond to the loons from Venz and Irant.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 1:30 Comments ||
Top||
#2
ATIMES.com > IRAN KEEPS SYRIA BY ITS SIDE, FOR NOW. Article also proclaims that any IRGC coming into Syria to boom Israel or assist/advise in the booming of Israel, must first enter Syria.
#3
But when we stand there and shout from the rooftops, they don't have to - we are essentially doing their dirty work."
Meaning the if Israel wasn't 'blasting' Iran (verbally) at the UN, the Saudis would be?
Horsefeathers.
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/21/2006 6:40 Comments ||
Top||
#4
A growing pet peave of mine in this internet savy world of mine is newspapers that assume they are only read by their own people. It would be nice to have had Foriegn Minister of what country added in the first paragraph somewhere, even in parenthesis.
Other articles are far worse, at least this one is in the Jerusalem times so you can figure it out pretty damn quick. I've read through US papers online that gave zero clue as to what city or state the events took place in. They just assumed that you know the name of the paper if you read the hardcopy and screw you if you read it online.
Multi-National Division Baghdad soldiers along with elements of the 9th Iraqi Army Division and local Iraqi leadership in Baghdads Adhamiyah neighborhood provided free medical attention to residents Sept. 5-12. Soldiers from 414th Civil Affairs Battalion, along with soldiers from 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division, helped provide aid to approximately 500 local residents, many of whom would have otherwise went without desperately needed medical attention.
We just did a major clearing operation in this sector, so were just trying to provide a little relief, said Capt. Brian Wilson, medical operations planner, 414th. Access to health care has been difficult. So together with the Iraqi army, were trying to alleviate some of that suffering.
Each unit involved was tasked to complete certain objectives, with the overall mission of setting a standard for future operations conducted by Iraqis, independent of Coalition Forces. The idea was to do it in conjunction with the Iraqi forces, which weve managed to do, said Maj. Greg Brewer, MND-B medical planner.
The positive effects on the collective psyche of the community of having Iraqi army soldiers actively diagnosing and treating locals, Sunni and Shia alike, is priceless in an environment where the fear of sectarian corruption in the government meets the reality of sectarian violence in the street.
I am a doctor in camouflage, said Col. Nabil, engineering commandant, 9th Iraqi Army Division. This is our duty. We can help these people, step by step. Nabil said that the people in Adhamiyah were grateful for the help of Coalition Forces.
The medical operations, which took place on Sept. 5, 9 and 12, in three separate locations in Adhamiyah, drew more patients at each outing. The Iraqi doctors and Iraqi medics added a lot to this, said Capt. Darin Harper, medical operations officer, 4th BCT. Well continue to do this as part of the build phase in Adhamiyah.
The last day of the operation opitimized optimized? epitomized? or a new word combining the two? the importance of Iraqi involvement. Today was our best one yet because we had optimal cooperation from the Iraqi army. They pretty much ran the show, Wilson said.
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/21/2006 06:17 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
There are several ways of looking at the progress of the Iraqi military. The first is how complete their military task organization is, from battalion to Corps level. Second is to compare specialty branches with US Army branches.
Whereas the former is "the tree", the latter is "the fruit on the tree".
They are so far along that the US is now helping them create "nice to have" but non-essential Combat Service Support units. Such CSS units do act as force multipliers, and keep the combat units fully functional longer, but it shows great confidence in the Iraqi Army that we can emphasize the utility of such units.
(KUNA) -- Italian troops stationed in Iraq will be withdrawn before Christmas as security in Thi Qar is handed over to Iraqi authorities, said Italian Defense Minister Arturi Parisi on Wednesday. The minister, who is en route to Iraq, told reporters that the 1,600 troops would be gradually withdrawn according to a specific timetable and that this would be completed before the end of the year.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Thank you for your time and service in the advancement of democracy and bettering the lives of the average [re: not Saddam Sunni] Iraq1.
#3
Ummm ... no. Islam's congenital violence. The Koran is a deeply flawed document in dire need of authentic and genuine reformation, without which Islam necessarily will be consigned to the glowing scrapheap of history.
#4
"Ummm ... no. Islam's congenital violence. The Koran is a deeply flawed document in dire need of authentic and genuine reformation, without which Islam necessarily will be consigned to the glowing scrapheap of history."
I think YOU should start a new religion for Moslems, Zenster. It would give you something to do (besides constantly posting on this website, I mean).
On to my point: By your reasoning, the Moslem school kids (and the parents and teachers) are all adherents of the same "congenitally violent" religion to which all Moslems subscribe. So why care about them? Less Moslems would be less Moslems, and since they're not going to organize and procure weapons and make war against the jihadiis anytime soon, by your same reasoning, it proves they're all responsible for the jihadiis.
Also from Zenster (reposts from previous comments):
"To this day, I still advocate the taking control of Islam's holy shrines as a deterrent measure and lever to force reformation of their religion. No reform, no haj. Any biological attacks gets the shrines dusted with the same agent. Any radiological attacks result in a dusting with the same isotope. Any chemical attacks get the places gassed, too. The first ensuing nuclear terrorist attack gets Medina glassed over and the next one shifts Mecca into carpark mode."
"At some point the world's Muslim population will have to be made to suffer in proportion to the atrocities their radicals inflict."
Guess you could start with those Moslem school kids. It might teach all Moslems everywhere a lesson.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The new chief judge in the Saddam Hussein genocide trial threw the former Iraqi president out of court Wednesday, and his lawyers stormed out in protest. A leading human rights group charged that the government's decision to replace the former chief judge, Abdullah al-Amiri, threatens the independence of the troubled tribunal.
Mohammed Oreibi al-Khalifa presided Wednesday after the government removed al-Amiri, who angered Kurds by declaring last week that Saddam was "not a dictator." The ousted president and seven others are on trial for the Operation Anfal crackdown on Kurdish rebels in the late 1980s. The prosecution says about 180,000 people, mostly civilians, were killed.
Defense lawyers immediately questioned the decision to replace al-Amiri. "We don't expect this court established under the occupation authorities to be fair so we have decided to withdraw from this trial," defense lawyer Wadoud Fawzi told the court. "The decision to sack the judge on the orders of the government shows that this trial lacks the standards of a fair trial," Fawzi said.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
A leading human rights group charged that the government's decision to replace the former chief judge, Abdullah al-Amiri, threatens the independence of the troubled tribunal.
I don't know, seems fair to me. If the old judge couldn't tell the difference between a tyrant, a dictator, and a duly elected president, then as far as I am concerned he should be picking up trash in a park somewhere and loving it, and not trying cases. Especially this kind of trash.
Seems like Human Rights Watch is desperate to look like it's doing something, even if it is wrong. Oh, I forgot, there's people implicitly who believe this kind of crap and give them big donations. Silly me!
"Your father was in the security and he went on working as a sergeant in the security (forces) until the fall of Baghdad" in 2003, Saddam shouted.
Al-Khalifa shot back: "I challenge you in front of the public if this is the case."
I have no idea what was just said here. Any Iraqi ==> English translations anyone?
#2
Someone should remind to thoe nutjobs that independe of judge is not a goal but a mean towards fairness of the judge. Would they found acceptable a judge who systematically released child rapers because he is a pedophile himself?
#3
I have no idea what was just said here. Any Iraqi ==> English translations anyone?
Saddam is saying that the judges father was a serving seargent under the security forces, possibly the ones who tortured innocent victims, until Baghad fell in 2003. The judge is challenging Saddam on that claim with the public as witness.
Posted by: Charles ||
09/21/2006 8:49 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Thanks, Charles. I thought it might be some kind of insult, but it makes some more sense that it's suggesting that if his father could do it, so should Saddam be able to. Of course, Saddam would have to veil that so it couldn't be used against him, but it's one more bit of circumstantial evidence that holds up pretty well in my mind. This kind of stuff should be all over the MSM.
A lack of intelligence wasn't the IDF's downfall in Bint Jbail, IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz said in an interview on Channel 1 Wednesday evening. Halutz said that on the intelligence level, the army was aware of what awaited forces in Bint Jbail. The chief of general staff emphasized that "we're in the process of investigating everything that happened," good and bad, and said that such investigations could take another month. "I promise that when everything is concluded, I will present [the information] before all the Israeli people," he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
WTF ..What a complete loser. If they had sufficent intel on the caves, the missles, etc., and still had the problems they encountered, get rid of this guy.
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 1:32 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Video from Bint Jbail reveals a destroyed city, as were other terror centers - including South Beirut - destroyed. Where the IDF failed was in finding the missile launch sites. Of course, some were mobile and Hizbollah's use of human shields obstructed operations.
#3
Intelligence is a property of mind that encompasses many related mental abilities, such as the capacities to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn.
#5
Listen General, if you had the intelligence and still allowed the troops into the meatgrinder you should be removed and put on trial immediately. What will be your defense, stupidity ?
IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz admitted in an interview with Channel 1 that he had considered resigning after the war in Lebanon. "I would be lying if I said that things like this didn't cross a person's mind," he told an interviewer who raised the subject. He added that "at the end of the day, when I look at the challenge that stands before me, I think it's appropriate that I take on this journey and continue it. This is a journey that isn't a burden, but rather a necessary journey."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Good on you General Halutz. Hang in there, there's a big war coming just around the bend.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert barely uttered a word of his speech at a Rosh Hashana toast for Kadima activists on Wednesday before reserve soldiers and bereaved parents started heckling him and calling upon him to resign. Security guards struggled to reach the hecklers, who shouted throughout the prime minister's speech. Fights broke out at the Tel Aviv Fairgrounds between the protesters and Kadima activists.
Standing in front of a stage set up for television cameras in the middle of the hall, the hecklers unveiled flags with symbols of elite IDF units and shouted, "Olmert go home" and "Where are the kidnapped soldiers?" One protester even called the prime minister a murderer.
Olmert addressed the protesters in his speech, calling upon them to stop attacking Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz and to leave the army outside the political battlefield. "It is permitted to protest and provoke, but the majority of the people here think differently than you do," he told the hecklers. "I know that there are people who are angry and disappointed. I am sure the majority of the people of Israel agree with our path and believe that Israel won the war."
Olmert's associates accused the protesters of being part of a right-wing conspiracy against the prime minister. They noted that the reservist movement is advised by Spin, the same public relations firm that ran the settlers' campaign against disengagement. "We know who sent them and who is advising them," an Olmert associate said. "The unruly bullying and disgusting heckling of the prime minister reveals the true face and the blatantly political intentions of the people calling upon him to quit. Whoever calls the prime minister a murderer loses his legitimacy and becomes part of the extremist fringes of Israeli society."
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
(Xinhua) -- U.S. President George W. Bush met here with Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly on Wednesday and said the best way for the Middle East peace is a Palestinian state living side by side in peace with Israel. "I believe that the best way to bring peace to the Holy Land is for two democratic states living side by side in peace," Bush told reporters after his meeting with Abbas.
Bush said that to achieve this vision, "there must be leaders willing to speak out and act on behalf of people who yearn for peace." Bush said Abbas is such a leader and the U.S. government wants to work with him to achieve this vision.
For his part, Abbas said he told Bush that more than 70 percent of the Palestinian people believe in the two-state solution. "That means that the Palestinian people desire peace, and there is no power on Earth that can prevent the Palestinian people from moving toward a peaceful solution and living and coexisting in peace," he said. The Bush administration has refused to deal with the Palestinian government headed by the militant Hamas. However, it has voiced support to Abbas as a moderate leader.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Why should a POTUS be more Zionist than an Israeli PM?
#2
If the Paleos were smart, they'd go for it. Because of the geographic positioning of a Palestinian state, Palestine could be brimming with commerce, and find itself in a very nice situation. It's so out of control there, though--don't know if it could even get started, or if it did, how long it would last.
#4
It's time to give up the 'two state solution' gambit. It doesn't work as long as one party by word and deed refuses to play. Time to tell the Paleos to read up on the Carthaginians as a people who once were.
This is the by now all too familiar Paleostinian two-step. Abbas is meeting with Bush and telling him what Bush wants to hear, the voice of sweet reason. Haniyeh, supposedly in agreement with Abbas, is back in Gaza, telling the rubes what they want to hear and incidentally causing Meshaal not to murder him. What'll happen is that the Paleos will eventually get their aid, Hamas will have made no changes to its program, the "uncontrollable elements" Popular Resistance Committees, Islamic Jihad, and al-Aqsa Martyrs will continue popping rockets and trying to infiltrate some krazed killers, while Hamas imports ever larger quantities of armaments through the tunnel network. At some point, Bush is going to have a KarineA moment with Abbas and the Paleo regime is going to be frozen out like Yasser's was. Bush may even come to the conclusion that there's no honest actor to be dealt with and write off the Paleos totally, like he's thinking seriously of writing off Perv.
(Xinhua) -- Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya on Wednesday rejected three conditions put forward by the Middle East Quartet to resume aid to and deal with any new Palestinian coalition government. Haneya, the premier from the governing Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), voiced the rejection while addressing supporters rallying before his Gaza office to support his Hamas-led government. "They (the Quartet) told us that there are conditions for the Palestinian people, namely recognizing the legitimacy of the occupation, condemning resistance and accepting previous agreements," Haneya told the supporters.
There is a reality we have been dealing with over the past six months, but dealing with the reality doesn't mean we recognize it or its legitimacy...
"We said to them that there is a reality we have been dealing with over the past six months, but dealing with the reality doesn't mean we recognize it or its legitimacy," he added.
Meanwhile, Haneya asserted that Palestinian employees, who didn't get their salaries paid for several months, would be paid before the end of September. One-month salary would be paid before Muslim's holy month of Ramadan that will fall on Sunday, Haneya said. Haneya also disclosed that the Qatari Prince Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani has allocated a 50-million-dollars aid in cash for the Palestinians in addition to donations from Saudi Arabia.
The Quartet, comprising the United States, the European Union, the United Nations and Russia, has demanded the Hamas-led government recognize Israel, renounce violence and accept previous peace accords. The United States and the EU cut direct aid to the cash-starved Palestinian government after Hamas took power in late March due to its refusal to soften its political stance. As a result, the Palestinian territories have fallen into grave fiscal and political crises. On Aug. 17, Abbas and Haneya agreed on forming a coalition government with a new moderate political program in order to alleviate the crises facing the Palestinians.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Fxuk him, send Abbastard packing, no $$$
Posted by: Captain America ||
09/21/2006 1:34 Comments ||
Top||
#2
No $$$-Exactly, CA. We're watching you, congress and president.
#3
It's hard to play a convincing "good cop - bad cop" routine when these two turds are both working the same old side of the terrorist street. Not one thin dime, not a grain or wheat nor a single used band-aid for these maggots.
#4
Have you seen this, Zenster? Quartet approves gov't with Hamas
The International Quartet - the United Nations, the United States, the European Union and Russia - declared its support on Wednesday night for Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas's efforts to form a unity government with Hamas.
It was the first time the US had supported the idea of a Palestinian government that included the Hamas movement.
In its decision, the Quartet said it hoped the new PA unity government would recognize Israel, renounce terrorism and accept previously signed agreements, however, the Quarter did not set the three principles as a condition for its acceptance of the new proposed government.
I weep for the poor Israelis who will done to death by these fuckwit politicians and their moronic ideas. The money will flow again without a single substantial change in anything.
Somehow, those who make the decisions affecting people on the receiving end of terrorism should be made to share their risk. Much like how all of America's congressional representatives and senators should be forced to fly on regular commercial passenger jet carriers.
Now, if you would all please pardon me while I go puke. [ralph]
"European diplomats said the language on the Quartet principles could allow wiggle room for Hamas to moderate its position without taking the dramatic step of fully recognizing Israel, but U.S. officials disputed that."
We're watching how Congress acts with regard to aid.
#1
At the same time he worked for British news agency Reuters and Time magazine. It was a huge surprise to his former colleagues when, in the 1980s, he announced his true allegiance.
No surprise to those of us who have read Time and Rooters reports over the years. Enjoy hell you communist bastard.
#2
After the war ended, Mr An was regarded with suspicion by the communist authorities and was sent to a re-education camp. He was denied permission to visit the US.
Last year he told former journalist colleagues he regarded Vietnam's current leaders as more corrupt than the regime which he had helped to bring down.
Hoped he liked re-education. He certainly worked hard for it.
Posted by: john ||
09/21/2006 21:04 Comments ||
Top||
#3
There's usually nothing sadder then a wasted life, but this is actually kinda funny.
Good looking guy, too...yikes!
#4
Last year he told former journalist colleagues he regarded Vietnam's current leaders as more corrupt than the regime which he had helped to bring down.
must be weird having to live eternity among the millions of dead souls whose rape, torture and murder you willingly accomodated.
An exiled Muslim rebel leader on Thursday welcomed Thailand's military overthrow of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, saying the coup could help resolve a bloody Islamic insurgency in the country's south.
The takeover on Tuesday by army commander Gen Sondhi Boonyaratkalin, a Muslim in a predominantly Buddhist country who accused Thaksin's government of corruption, has been endorsed by Thailand's revered king and many Thais eager for an end to political turmoil. But Western governments expressed dismay over the coup, launched while the popularly elected Thaksin was abroad, and urged a speedy return to democracy.
Thaksin, who used an iron-fisted policy in trying to suppress the insurgency?!, was widely detested in southern Thailand and many moderate Muslims said that the bloody conflict could never be solved as long as he remained in power. "It is the right thing that the military has taken power to replace the Thaksin Shinawatra government," said Lukman B Lima, an exiled leader in one of several groups fighting the central government for a separate Muslim state. "We hope that the political (situation) can be resolved under Gen. Sondhi Boonyaratkalin as the new leader," Lukman said.
In an e-mailed response to questions from the agency, Lukman said Sondhi was the "only one who knows the real problems" of the Muslim-dominated provinces of southern Thailand. Lukman, exiled in Sweden, is vice president of the Pattani United Liberation Organization, or PULO. "We will continue to fight until full independence (is attained) in Pattani," he said, referring to the provinces of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat.
Sondhi, 59, had proposed several weeks ago opening talks with the separatists, but Thaksin's government vehemently opposed such a move. "Thaksin's government has totally failed to quell the violence, so we are pinning our hope on the Council of Administrative Reform," said Srisompob Jitpiromsri, a political scientist from Prince of Songkhla University in the southern province of Pattani. More at link
The recent brouhaha surrounding Pope Benedict XVI comments on Islam delivered in Germany should give Muslims a pause. Not one that would conjure the recalcitrant attacks that we have seen recently but rather one that would question why such a prominent religious leader would utter these words.
What the Pope said allows me, as a Muslim, to ponder self-examination and not rush into a reaction of condemnation.
Islam of today differs from the Islam of yesterday. Instead of a thriving era of the Abbasids, we are experiencing a terrorist era of Wahhabism.
Wahabbism is an obscure strand of Islam with fanatical followers who remained "out of sight and out of mind" until Saudi Arabia struck it rich with oil. Hungry economies saw it fit to submit to the Wahabbis and their protectors, the al-Saud clan, rather than confront their danger. But this came with a price.
It was oil that financed 15 Saudis to attack the United States on September 11 and it is Wahhabism today that is militarizing Islam. Unlike the prosperous Abbasid era, the Wahhabi era is confrontational, fanatic, and universal because of undue influence by Saudi Arabia. That influence is justified, in the eyes of Muslims, because Saudi Arabia is the Guardian of the Two Holy Cities of Makkah and Medina.
The radicalism of Wahhabi Islam demands a concerted effort by moderate Muslims and Muslim nations alike if ever Islam is to survive to usher another era of peace and prosperity. To succeed, we must chart a strategy to wrestle control of Makkah and Medina from the hands of the 5 million extremist Najd-bred Wahhabis and trust these two Holy Cities to an International Council of Muslim Nations with the country of Jordan as the host. In other words, we need to vaticanize Islam.
As a moderate Muslim living amongst Muslims, Christians, and Jews, I am asking myself what have we, Muslims, brought forth to today's civilizations that would appeal to other religions and prompt them to imitate us or praise us? We have but TV beheadings and barbaric killings of innocent people in the name of our great religion. Are we then surprised to hear other religious people with followers all around the world ask us, through factual history, why we are so violent?
The words of Pope Benedict should not be examined with scorn but with scrutiny. The respect that our Islam commands in the world today is diminishing because we have come to accept Wahhabi Jihad as normal behavior; this explains President Bush's message that abandoning us to ruthless dictatorships is breeding the divide all of us should fear.
If Pope Benedict infringed upon us with his words, it is because Wahhabism has infringed and continues to infringe upon his world with brutality. Unless moderate Muslims control their destiny, Islam is in danger and its lifespan in the Arab world mirrors the lifespan of oil in Saudi Arabia.
Farid N. Ghadry is the President of the Reform Party of Syria.
He and Natan Sharansky were visiting my synagogue. They had a love-in where they finished each other's sentences.
F.N. Gadry has a lot on the ball. He is smart. He has courage (he has been in detention many times in Syria and he keeps going back). His brand of moderate islam might even work in Syria because of Syria's history of relative religious tolerance (if you grade the muslim world on a curve, Syria would get at least a B+).
However, I think he has a mental block that prevents him from seeing the overall problem.
#6
Farid N. Ghadry is the President of the Reform Party of Syria.
And a dead man walking.
(I never saw the movie, but I assume it means "He's as good as dead." Well, that's what I meant.)
Posted by: Bobby ||
09/21/2006 10:05 Comments ||
Top||
#7
I wish Ghadry rots of ruck, he'll need it to make any sort of significant dent in fascist Islam. I'd advise him to begin assembling all of the Moderate Muslims in one place so they don't get swept away in the backwash.
#9
The words of Pope Benedict should not be examined with scorn but with scrutiny.
I'm not a monotheist but I agree very much with what he said after scrutiny and I'm not ignorant or a LLL atheist either.
How does a muslim know how to scrutinize such matters when the only world that's known, regarded real and valid to himself is i-slam? BS ever rehashed.
#12
Hey, we WANT the Moslems to begin the journey of self-definition that allows them to also redefine their religion AWAY FROM the direction Wahhabi Islam has taken them of late, right? Or not right?
This guy is trying to be an example:
"What the Pope said allows me, as a Muslim, to ponder self-examination and not rush into a reaction of condemnation."
Well, good for him: "Think--don't just act/react."
His conclusion?
"Unless moderate Muslims control their destiny, Islam is in danger and its lifespan in the Arab world mirrors the lifespan of oil in Saudi Arabia."
When Moslems claim moderation as legitimate and advocate for a self-controlled destiny, they distance themselves from our enemies and join us in condemning Islamic violence and fanaticism. They deserve our support and friendship. New Islamic leadership is needed and should be promoted through educated people like this man.
BTW, some people on the Burg are beginning to sound like "the only good nigger is a dead nigger" crowd, when it comes to Moslems.
#13
No, it's more like the only good child molester is a dead child molester.
There is a huge difference.
Posted by: kelly ||
09/21/2006 11:44 Comments ||
Top||
#14
As I've said before, (about such as child molestors and jihadiis) --blow them all to Hell. But for cryin' out loud, don't become dupes and pawns of the leftist media. News, as a business enterprise, doesn't thrive on stories like, "And in Damascus, 300,000 (Moslem) people went to work in the morning between 7 and 10 am, and about 6 or 7 gathered in a nearby coffeehouse to bitch about Assad.
There are other Moslems than these terrorist kooks with guns and agendas (whether we're talking about the little guys, or the little guys running places like Iran). Better to build the bridges where we can.
#15
The only real value to us, is that he again points out that Sauds are the central problem. We should have cut the head off this snake long ago. I think different leadership at the top would have done so. Folks, we can all plainly see how to abate this problem . Take direct action on Saudi, Paki, and Iranian governments/lands. The others, less wealthy, or willing to be violently aggressive like Egypt, Syria, Indonesia will hunker down and be quiet for another 50 years, shocked at the extreme retribution paid out to their aggressive, fanatical buddies.
#16
I don't know if this guy is sincere but he has a huge problem: it is the wahabis NOT him who are right on what the Koran says and what Muhammad wanted. Menaing that he is for an upstream battle.
#17
Personally I think Bush and company should have dumped a ton of money into whatever sect of Islam that was best prepared to counter the jihadists. I'm assuming the Sufi in Turkey. Then got them to use the money to do the exact same thing the Saudis do except in reverse, take over Mosques, print Korans, preech actual peace.
Prop up a single Mullah (or council or school) as the leader of Islam. Pick one we can deal with, and meet with them, and show respect to them, maybe even change a policy or two at their demands to give them face before the Islamic world, while letting the rest of the Islamic world kiss our red white and blue ass.
Then again perhaps they can't provide one we can deal with in which case I would have started operation Carthaginian Peace a few years ago.
#20
"Unless moderate Muslims control their destiny, Islam is in danger and its lifespan in the Arab world mirrors the lifespan of oil in Saudi Arabia."
The Kuwaits fiture they've got enough of that old black crude to last em another 400 years. Don't know about the Soodies. I doubt we have 400 years left in the west to deal with Islam.
#21
I doubt we have 400 years left in the west to deal with Islam.
We don't even have 40 years. I peg it at less than four years. That's a reduction by twoordersofmagnitude. It shows just how complacent Islamic governments are about the jihadist threat to them. Think of how much longer it is until Iran has nuclear weapons and then subtract a year.
#22
BTW, some people on the Burg are beginning to sound like "the only good nigger is a dead nigger" crowd, when it comes to Moslems.
Ex-lib, I don't think the 'burg cares anymore. Officially and unofficially. After November it might get even worse.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/21/2006 17:39 Comments ||
Top||
#23
We need to be optimistic about Moslems like the writer in the article. It is foolish to think the West must kill every Moslem. It is also wrong. What B-16 did was to start opening dialogues and minds. This guy is an example. We fight those who fight us and fight them ruthlessly, but we welcome those who ask themselves such questions. They are not mutually exclusive. The real answer to this jihad problem will lie not just on the battlefield, but in the minds and hearts of those who will be discouraged by the battle. Sherman didn't have to kill every rebel, we didn't kill every Japanese or German. To simply propose this as a "Final Solution" is wrong and foolish.
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/21/2006 17:50 Comments ||
Top||
#25
I don't think it is necessary to be antagonistic about the issue of Moderate Muslims. What I think has begun to become clear is that these so-called moderates had better get off of the dime and begin taking substantive measures to distinguish themselves. What's more is that they must additionally initiate their own campaign of outing any of the jihadist imams and radicals within their religious circles.
Extremely little of this has been happening to date. So little, in fact, that many outsiders have rightly abandoned all hope that there will be any real action of worth to be seen from this. The West is obliged to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to survive.
After five long years of waiting for Moderate Islam to make inroads on the fanatics within their midst they no longer have much right to demand any assistance from us. We must go about taking the measures that ensure our safety. If Moderate Muslims don't want to be thrown out with the bathwater, they can clean up their own act.
#26
Ex-lib, I don't think the 'burg cares anymore. Officially and unofficially
I'll let Fred answer that officially, if he choses. But I for one do care. IF it comes to the sort of all-out war that so many here seem to be panting for, the horror will be one our grandchildren and beyond will carry before them.
It may come to that -- and if so, then so. But count me among those who are NOT popping the popcorn or pouring beer in happy anticipation of such an event. I'll defend myself and mine if need be, but dead is dead and 1,500,000,000 dead is not a prospect anyone should happily anticipate.
#27
I certainly do not "happily anticipate" one quarter of this world's population dying. What I want is an immediate end to these Islamic atrocities. Even another single one of them is unacceptable. The distinct possibility of a terrorist nuclear atrocity is what makes me no longer care if the Muslim-majority countries are incinerated. I will not sit and watch America be thrown back some 10 - 20 YEARS by such an abomination.
This is why we need to place the nuclear option on the table for all to see. I'd almost prefer a demonstration of force by detonating one in an uninhabited expanse of Middle East desert, just to get the message across crystal clear. Islam needs to be put on notice that unimaginable horrors await any further refusal to reform.
Reverse the situation. If Islam had America's nuclear arsenal, do you honestly think we would even be having this debate?
#29
Ideologies don't go away until they are crushed. Enough practitioners of the ideology must be killed to make the remaining few say "Maybe this wasn't a good idea after all. We quit."
You could Google 'WWII Nazi Germany' for an example.
Now, the question is: When do we start crushing this ideology?
No, but we killed as many as we could until the rest surrenedered unconditionally and let us put their ideological leaders on trial and hang them. When we can do that with the Grand Poobah of Mecca, then we can say we've equalled what we did in WWII.
#32
Zenster, you write: Maybe so, but I'll still make sure this is clear. I'm fed up with craptacular tripe volcanos like last night's pathetic little smear campaign.
Hmmm, but I still dont see you answering whether dealing with islamofascism will mean that the 1 ½ BILLION Muslims all need to die (be exterminated), in your opinion -- whether you say youd be happy about killing all those people or not. And, do you think there is any solution to the problem of islamofascism short of exterminating 1 ½ BILLION Muslims? Because, if you do have some other solution short of exterminating 1 ½ BILLION Muslims to deal with islamofascism, I must have missed it.
Now, and hopefully as a short aside, you also speak of craptacular tripe volcanos and a smear campaign. Is that "tripe" and "smear" verbiage in line with this link at Rantburg where a lot of effort went into dialogue with you about President Bush, but got nowhere? Or is your smear campaign comment more in line with this link at Rantburg where the conclusion was that your constant references to President Bush as "shrub" demonstrates you are either schizophrenic or duplicitous? Or do you simply object to people calling you on your statements like the following:
Jen, only when and if he is ever properly elected will I then be grudgingly obliged to address him as you wish I would. His intentional blurring of the separation between church and state while simultaneously attempting to constitutionalize discrimination gets nothing but scorn from me.
as in this link at Rantburg, with some emphasis added. My question last night was sincere, and still has not been answered, How do you square your kill them all, let God sort them out rhetoric with your Bush is a crook rhetoric?
It's not that I'm opposed to you or everything you have to say. I just disagree with you sometimes. And I have that lingering curiosity about how do you square your kill them all, let God sort them out rhetoric with your Bush is a crook rhetoric?
#33
#16 I don't know if this guy is sincere but he has a huge problem: it is the wahabis NOT him who are right on what the Koran says and what Muhammad wanted.
You are sadly right of course, but I think the solution is in textual criticism and hermeneutics. That's why I find some solace and comfort in that fact that groups do exist like the Liberal Islam Network (see discussion and links at this link at Rantburg). Although even the Liberal Islam Network is still plagued by a Pollyannaish and rose colored view of Palestine as the victim, and Israel as an aggressor, at least there is room in their thought processes for dialogue. And, an internal reformation in Islam can't be a bad thing, even if it isn't everything we would hope for. There have to be Muslim views more palatable than wahabism.
#34
Jen, only when and if he is ever properly elected will I then be grudgingly obliged to address him as you wish I would. His intentional blurring of the separation between church and state while simultaneously attempting to constitutionalize discrimination gets nothing but scorn from me.
I can only suppose that you abjectly refuse to notice how I said that "the best man won" the recent election. As to my personal reservation about potential electoal wrongdoing in the 2000 elections, I'll refer you to recent quotes by Katherine Harris, Secretary of State for Florida during the 2000 presidential campaign.
Katherine Harris made remarks ... "Separation of church and state is a lie because "...God is the one who chooses our rulers," according to US State Representative Harris; furthermore, the founding fathers themselves did not intend to build a country based on non-religious laws."
One look at the Jeffersonian Bible tells me that some of our founding fathers were looking far beyond religious laws when they penned this nation's constitution. Had they not, freedom of religion would not have featured so prominently in our Bill of Rights.
Harris said "If you're not electing Christians, then in essence you are going to legislate sin." Her publicity department sent out a press release explaining that she was 'addressing a Christian audience' and mentioned her pro-Israel voting record.
If this isn't enough to cause strong concerns over the possibility of abusive partisan bias in her handling of Florida's 2000 elections results, then you must be brain dead.
your kill them all, let God sort them out rhetoric
Furthermore, you have yet to provide a link for where I have ever said "kill them all, let God sort them out". Until you drop such preposterous accusations, you are not worth responding to.
Either you provide a link to where I make such assertions or you will no longer be given the courtesy of a reply.
I've had enough of this slanderous bullshit from you. Why don't you post about your beloved Indonesia over in the "Indonesia Executes Christians" thread and see what sort of response you get there.
cingold, you continue to make these false accusations without providing a shred of evidence. You are no longer worth the time of day to me.
#35
"I certainly do not "happily anticipate" one quarter of this world's population dying."
Yeah, me neither. Although if one quarter of that certain population of the world that keeps pulling this same shit over and over was suddenly "dealt with" then you'll get the rest to knock it off most rik-tik methinks. Or, statistically speaking it only takes about 7 to 11% of a population to get clipped before that particular civilization surrenders. Though in this case, that's still a lot of people.
I don't advocate a mass genocide of muslims as I don't think it is needed. However, I'd greatly like to see the selective annihilation of certain gov't/religious leaders via wetworks style methods. I'd also like to see the incremental marginalizatin or death of their religion. Like I said in another post, until they really modernize their religion and go to a sort of "jeffersonian koran" *or* the wahabbis are some how kicked to the back room we will always be dealing w/these jokers. Until the oil dries up in the majick kingdom or we get smart and start producing our own fuel - I don't see the latter happening for quite a while.
#36
Zenster, let's parse this just a bit, shall we?
NOTE: I said "'kill them all, let God sort them out' rhetoric." Rhetoric being defined as, for example, "A style of speaking or writing, especially the language of a particular subject: fiery political rhetoric." See this link.
So, at least in my mind, when you want to exterminate 1 ½ BILLION Muslims to deal with the problems of islamofascism it is a "kill them all, let God sort them out" rhetoric.
Anyway, thanks for confirming to me that (at least prior to 2004) you thought of Bush as a crook, and that you still might have some pretty big reservations about him. Now, does your extermination rhetoric square with your personal dislike of Bush? I certainly don't know, but I have asked you to help me with that issue.
I'm certainly not trying to flame you, because if I wanted to do that I'd just post some of the many links to things as old as the Beslan thread or as recent as the thread yesterday about finding humor in the muderous death of a woman who was dragged to her death by a tow strap. But, Im not trying to flame you, even if you think I am. I really would like to understand where you're coming from a bit better.
I mean, from my perspective, diversity is a good thing -- and our nations diversity is one of the things that makes our country great. That we can all come together and agree on anything is amazing. I figure that if people with greatly divergent points of view can agree on something (like, yes, let's vigorously fight and eliminate islamofascism) that's what's in everybody's best interest and is a really good and important thing to do. Of course, it would be nice to go a step further and be able to agree on how to eliminate islamofascism.
Thats where dialogue comes in, and I am trying to dialogue with you.
I just can't wrap my mind around the solution being the extermination of 1 ½ BILLION Muslims to deal with the problems of islamofascism. But, sadly, that question is dodged by you and I really wanted to hear if that is what you were proposing and if you had thought of any other solution short of the extermination of 1 ½ BILLION Muslims.
Now, regarding (as you put it) my beloved Indonesia, I am tremendously saddened by the execution of these three Christian men. Of course, I am much more so saddened than I was when Sydney Jones was expelled from Indonesia, because these lives are never coming back. Indonesia and its government does make some really bad mistakes. However, I continue to believe that there are positive forces for good within Indonesia, and that some of these issues will be self-correcting. Truly, I believe some of what is going on with the executions is appeasement of sorts. I think I've mentioned that kind of stuff going on in Indonesia before. (See, for example, this link at Rantburg.) And that is disgusting. However, some of it too is just that Indonesia really does execute people -- and because of that I really do think that some 2 - 4 of the Bali Bombers will be executed within the next year.
Whether the trial of the Bali Bombers was fair and that of the Christians unfair is something I haven't looked at very closely -- but I believe the trial of the Bali Bombers was fair, and they will rightly die. Today, though, I mourn for three Christian souls . . .
#37
I just can't wrap my mind around the solution being the extermination of 1 ½ BILLION Muslims to deal with the problems of islamofascism.
Apparently, it helps if you don't believe moderate Muslims exist, and thus, I guess, they are all out to get you (or would get you if they could, or, they won't throw themselves on the jihadi grenade to save you, or, they simply don't care).
Posted by: Rafael ||
09/21/2006 23:17 Comments ||
Top||
#38
cingold, I refer you to post # 27 in this thread. We'll have to resume this dialogue at another time as I have to walk my wolf-hybrid with a friend.
Did you not notice where I recently vowed to support Bush should he be subjected to impeachment procedings arising from any bombing of Iran?
From the rate of your participation and posting, I find it hard to believe that you have been paying much attention to mine or any other posts around here. I'll suggest that you refrain from dredging up FOUR YEAR OLD POSTS when you want to criticize me.
Other than that, this will have to wait. I'd like to bear you no ill will, but you keep slinging inappropriate accusations at me and I will get up on my hind legs when that happens.
Finally, if you were so offended about my posts in the thread where that woman was murdered, did you even bother to read the Mark Twain quote I posted? Have you ever written any original humor in your entire life? If not, thank you for playing, please try again.
(Xinhua) -- The Pentagon has dismissed a media report that the U.S. Navy is secretly planning war on Iran, The Army Times reported Wednesday.
"No, no! Certainly not!"
The Pentagon was responding to a Time magazine report published on Sept. 18, which said Chief of Naval Operations Mike Mullen had asked subordinates to put "fresh eyes" on old U.S. plans to blockade two Iranian oil ports on the Gulf. The order allegedly came after the Navy first issued a "prepare to deploy" order to a submarine, an Aegis-class cruiser, two mine-sweepers and two mine hunters, the magazine reported. However, the Pentagon denied such planning and said it hopes relations with Iran could improve through dialogue, not military action. "We're going to approach the concerns that we and the international community have with Iran diplomatically," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said Tuesday. "Time will tell," he added.
Posted by: Fred ||
09/21/2006 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
"Thats right, D *** it, thats RUSSIA's job" - PRAVDA.com > RUSSIA"S NEW DEFENSE DOCTRINE sees USA, NATO, + International Terrorism as future threats.
#2
Can't win. Either ya get condemned because you're brushing off plans and reviewing/tweaking them, or ya get condemned because ya weren't prepared when it hit the fan.
#3
The Pentagon has zer-effing-oh obligation to even hint about any plans regarding Iran. Fuck knows that the NYT would have a bale of papers with screamer headlines on the next plane out to Tehran.
#4
Technically speaking, the Pentagon doesn't have a plan on Iran. That is the responsibility of CENTCOM. CENTCOM puts it together and then coordinates with the Pentagon on supporting the operation. The Goldwater-Nichols Act arranged things that way. Considering the vast majority of reporters no nothing about their subject matter, why would you think they'd know who to ask the right question to?
#10
We have no plans for a Land/Sea/Air invasion of Quebec either, but I'm sure someone has a copy of "Gretzky Hat Trick" filed under "Angry Canucks" in some obscure office somewhere.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Interior Minister Prince Naif yesterday called Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden a silly intelligence agent. He also refuted Western allegations that Saudi Arabia was supporting Bin Laden and his terrorist organization. How can the government of Saudi Arabia support an organization that targets and kills its own people, he said while addressing a meeting of the directors and senior officials of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.
The men who barracked 
NEW YORK (AP) - A federal judge on Wednesday ordered the Department of Defense to release documents detailing mistreatment or disciplinary action taken against detainees at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and other information sought by The Associated Press.
GENEVA (AP) - The Red 
The biggest militant group fighting Indian rule in held Kashmir on Wednesday offered a conditional cease-fire during Ramadan, which is set to begin next week.
President George W. Bush said Wednesday he would order military action inside Pakistan if intelligence indicated Osama bin Laden or other top terror leaders were hiding there. Bush was asked by CNN's Wolf Blitzer whether he would give the order for American troops to kill or capture bin Laden or other terror leaders if good intelligence pointed to their whereabouts, even if it were inside Pakistan's borders. "Absolutely," said Bush. "We would take the action necessary to bring them to justice."
The world's "moment of truth" regarding Iran has arrived, Foreign Minister 
(KUNA) -- Italian troops stationed in Iraq will be withdrawn before Christmas as security in Thi Qar is handed over to Iraqi authorities, said Italian Defense Minister Arturi Parisi on Wednesday. The minister, who is en route to Iraq, told reporters that the 1,600 troops would be gradually withdrawn according to a specific timetable and that this would be completed before the end of the year.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The new chief judge in the Saddam Hussein genocide trial threw the former Iraqi president out of court Wednesday, and his lawyers stormed out in protest. A leading human rights group charged that the government's decision to replace the former chief judge, 
lack of intelligence wasn't the IDF's downfall in Bint Jbail, IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz said in an interview on Channel 1 Wednesday evening. Halutz said that on the intelligence level, the army was aware of what awaited forces in Bint Jbail. The chief of general staff emphasized that "we're in the process of investigating everything that happened," good and bad, and said that such investigations could take another month. "I promise that when everything is concluded, I will present [the information] before all the Israeli people," he said.
IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz admitted in an interview with Channel 1 that he had considered resigning after the war in Lebanon. "I would be lying if I said that things like this didn't cross a person's mind," he told an interviewer who raised the subject. He added that "at the end of the day, when I look at the challenge that stands before me, I think it's appropriate that I take on this journey and continue it. This is a journey that isn't a burden, but rather a necessary journey."
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert barely uttered a word of his speech at a Rosh Hashana toast for Kadima activists on Wednesday before reserve soldiers and bereaved parents started heckling him and calling upon him to resign. Security guards struggled to reach the hecklers, who shouted throughout the prime minister's speech. Fights broke out at the Tel Aviv Fairgrounds between the protesters and Kadima activists. 
(Xinhua) -- Palestinian Prime Minister 
