May 2nd, 2004- The Boston Geostrategic Group predicted long before 9-11-01 Muslim terrorists would eventually target international exportable crude oil supplies as their evolving primary âeasyâ method of attempting to disrupt the entire Western economic system.
The jihadists have now entered into the most dangerous phase in their monstrous religious & economic war against the free world.
In addition to Islamic terrorists striking the âexpectedâ targets, as the northern hemisphere enters into the warmer months of summer the following scenario is foreseen; increased sabotage of relatively âunprotectedâ crude oil & natural gas pipelines, refineries, storage tanks, petrochemical plants, and even neighbourhood gas stations, depending on how desperate the enemy becomes.
Today we confront an external & implanted fanatical enemy which requires a steady flow of cash in order to execute large scale, detailed terror attacks, thus the enemy would become somewhat hard pressed in their global quest of Islamic world domination if ...the Muslim OPEC nations financing world-wide jihad, coupled with the organized drug cartels, were to all of a sudden lose their main source of revenue. Does the West have the will?
Is it not ironic that one of the leading Muslim nations most responsible for creating the al-Qaâida beast, Saudi Arabia, now becomes one of its proxy targets in order to harm the West. The ruling Arabian Wahhabi Islamic cult uses billions of dollars in petroleum profits to finance Wahhabi related terrorist organizations around the globe, seriously miscalculating continued appeasement of the âbeastâ would protect their home-based wealth, the only commodity the dictatorial Wahhabis possess, a sea of crude oil.
Consecutive American, British along with other Western governments have coddled the Wahhabi âRoyalâ family, contently looking the other way regarding state sanctioned Wahhabi terrorism, until so interlocked into Arabian crude imports, we are as hooked on the enemyâs imported oil like a junkie is to his next fix of heroin. Oil demand and dependence on foreign sources of supply have skyrocketed.
Now comes the inevitable heavy does of economic reality for those nations which so foolishly and greedily appeased the greatest enemy since Nazi Germany. To think over the years of creating the wealth for very the âbeastâ which has turned against us, we were self sufficient in American based crude oil.
Saudi Oil Facts
Share of global reserves: 25%
Share of global production (2001): 11.8%
Itâs Shiâites against Sunnis! Both Muslim sects hate us equally, and both are using Iraq & Afghanistan as their fields of battle for supremacy of the controllers of all Islam, and the West is caught right smack in the middle! The next set of deadly fireworks are about to really begin, letâs hope all of them we ignite and not the enemy!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 10:24:07 PM ||
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Iâve come to the conclusion that these animals canât be fought using 20th century concepts. After the 30th of June, the Iraqis will need to put in mercenaries who will have complete control after Coalition forces pull back to bases in Iraq. Those forces will supply only logistical and intelligence support. Just to perform a mind exercise, imagine if mercenaries took over. As an idea about what could happen, check out how 500 mercenaries put an end to the Angolan disaster which had raged for decades. Executive Outcomes planned the whole operation. While they were hunting down and killing the terrorists, you had some of the craziest murdering psychopaths, the world has ever seen, begging for mercy and wanting to run to the UN to have their human rights protected. Allâs quiet now. And no, the American taxpayer wonât be paying. The new Iraqi government will be, by giving oil concessions to the mercenaries, just as the Angolans gave diamond concessions. I say welcome to the new privatised type of warfare for the 21st Century. Basically NGO warfare between Islamist NGOâs and Non-Islamist NGO militias.
....................
THE Australian engineer killed in Saudi Arabia was shot dead by Islamic terrorists who worked undercover alongside him, it has emerged. Anthony Richard Mason, 57, and four other Westerners were gunned down by men who worked as security guards at the giant Exxon Mobil refinery complex in the Red Sea port city of Yanbu. A Saudi was also killed.
A company spokesman said three employees working at the plant entered the site on Saturday, letting in a fourth accomplice through an emergency exit. The group stormed into the offices of the Swiss-owned oil services company ABB and at point blank-range fired at workers, killing Mr Mason, two Britons and two Americans instantly. A sixth Saudi man was then shot as the gunmen ran through the sprawling complex firing their M16s and AK-47 assault rifles indiscriminately. One witness said the gunmen looked like teenagers and appeared to be targeting Westerners. There was no warning before the shooting although some employees yelled to others: "Take cover, theyâre shooting." A third American, a Pakistani and a Canadian were critically wounded. The gunmen then took their stolen Coast Guard jeep and yelled "jihad, jihad" and "we are Mujahaddin" as they fired their weapons out of the windows.
Witnesses said one victimâs body was tied to the back of their grey Toyota LandCruiser and dragged for 3km before being dumped outside the Arab British Bank. A witness said: "The body had all the clothes ripped away except for shreds of underwear and shoes. It was just lying in the gutter. It was horrible to see." During the ensuing shootouts, eight men from the National Guard and 10 from public security were wounded. Between 25 and 50 people were wounded. The gunmen fired shots into other office windows and at a McDonaldâs restaurant before police engaged them in a shootout outside a Holiday Inn. Three of the terrorists died instantly and a fourth died in hospital from his injuries.
British journalist Michael Cousins said: "They drove through town shooting at everything in sight - cars, people, the lot. They also targeted a McDonaldâs and a hotel, shooting at whatever moved. They seemed to be targeting Westerners." After the attacks, police moved in to secure Yanbuâs streets with checkpoints throughout the city, a resident said. Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said yesterday it was unclear why the shooting took place but the group may have been linked to al-Qaeda. "We donât really know who is responsible but you could safely assume [al-Qaeda may be involved]," he said.
Or al-Qaeda wannabes...
An oil executive said the gunmen had targeted the top three officials involved in an upgrading project at the Saudi petrochemical firm YANPET, jointly owned by US Exxon Mobil and Saudi Basic Industries Corp. Last night it emerged that one of the gunmen was one of the Arab kingdomâs most wanted terrorists.
That'd be the guy the other three let in by the side door...
Abdullah Saud Abu-Nayan al-Sobaie, believed to have masterminded the carnage, was killed in the shootout with Saudi security forces.
Posted by: tipper ||
05/02/2004 11:27:08 AM ||
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Is it now that Westerners are realizing that muslims, in this case Saudis, could not be fought using 20th century concepts? Westerners who have or are still living here and who have never bought into the Arab hospitality shit,have been warning other Westeners about what these people are all about for a while now. We have been called bigots, racists and you name it. For anybody who has ever lived or visited Saudi Arabia, all he/she needed to do to know the depth of sickness of this society, is to observe how minorities (philipinos, Sri Lankas, Hindus.. labor hand) are treated here.
Okay, let's undo some of the BS in this article:
There are no foreign-owned refineries in Saudi. This is the ARAMCO Yanbu refinery. Exxon-Mobile, at most, is a minor investor -- and I have doubts about them "owning" dick, in fact. Most likely, they have some sort of interest which involves providing the modern plant design and a guarantee that they would provide some percentage of the plant engineers. For this they would be paid - but at most, they are minor players. Pfeh - all "companies" in SA are, at minimum, 51% Saudi owned. Start from there and work your way down, folks.
Second, all ARAMCO facilities are protected by Aramco's own police - the Industrial Security Department. Period. Full Stop. The locals are not even allowed to come onto Aramco property without explicit approval and chaperones. This usually works to the advantage of ExPats since the local yokels are one step removed from goat-herding. If these jackoffs were, indeed, part of some security force, then they worked for IS. Period. Full Stop.
Third, indeed, there is, in Saudi, a very high sentiment in favor of OBL -- most Saudis are poor and see the Royals looting every petrodollar for their own ends. Those who are connected, and it requires connections to get a gig with Aramco, are not. If IS hired these little killers, then some heads will roll for certain. ExPats are very important to the operation of Aramco - to the $$$ that the Royals depend on. And the ROYALS control ARAMCO because ARAMCO makes the MONEY. Forget all the crap about Saudiazation -- any Royal with 2 neurons to rub together knows his countrymen are goat-herding loonies with zero sense and that the ExPats make shit happen while the Saudis are swilling tea and swapping spit. No infidel "journalist" in-Kingdom knows anything not cleared and issued to him by Saudi officials - and in this case, pre-cleared by IS, the only people who really know diddley-squat about what happened on Aramco property. Once they left Aramco's area of control, then it was cleared through Nayef's Security arm of the Interior Ministry.
Some of what is here may have happened as written. Know, however, that what you read here has been pre-filtered by at least 2 separate security operations - and they may have conflicting interests - Nayef is one of the loony Royals and is often in direct conflict with the official head of the Royals, the Clown Prince. And other Royals, such as Turki have their own separate agendas. This shit is byzantine. Believe me, this is not the skinny truth - it is what "they" decided to allow to be known. There could've been 20 bad guys, reduced to 4 cuz that's what they have to show at the end of the action.
In the end - they hate us but need us. But the Roayls love money far more than they hate ExPats.
I feel very sorry for these guys. They were simply regular people who happen to be petro-engineers trying to pay off a mortgage and / or put their kids through college - and foregoing many trappings of modernity, such as living in shitholes and paying through the nose for the privilege, things you take for granted, to do it. Most likely, the majority of these guys have been there, in-Kingdom, for a long time -- long before any of us even had a clue about Islamofascism -- and never dreamed they'd ever be anyone's targets. They probably even thought they had Saudi friends, though that's naive as I found out.
Don't forget: you are 100x better informed than they are in LalaLand, and at least 10x better informed than the guy working at the desk next to you.
The Red Sea port of Yanbu became the scene of the latest horrific attack by militants when a group of at least four young men, disguised as Coast Guards, stormed the offices of ABB Lummus armed with automatic weapons and, according to one witness, opened fire at point blank range. Reports filtering in throughout the day said at least seven people were killed and several others injured.
Body count's up...
In a grim replay of scenes in Baghdad recently, gunmen bound one of the bodies hand-and-foot and attached it to the rear of a vehicle â big enough, an eye witness said, to allow four weapons to be brandished out one side and three out of the other. They then dragged the body through the residential area of the Royal Commission housing area, while shooting into the air and at selected buildings. They were heard to be shouting âjihad, jihad.â
One of those quaint Arabian religious ceremonies, eh?
The girlsâ and boysâ high schools were hit in what locals see as a symbolic gesture, and the local McDonaldâs restaurant was raked with fire. Plate glass windows were peppered with bullet holes, and an illuminated sign shot out. The body finally ended up in a gutter outside a bank in the residential area. An eyewitness who manages a local business told Arab News that: âThe body had all the clothes ripped away except for shreds of underwear and shoes. It was just lying in the gutter; it was horrible to see.â
It was those Lions of the Desert, obviously...
After the incident, the area was swamped by police â but it appears the gunmen escaped as the Holiday Inn was next to come under fire.
Who was in charge of the cops? Fatty Arbuckle?
Located off the main highway but on the route from the Royal Commission housing area to Yanbu Al-Bahr, it is accessible only through a tight security check. Somehow, the terrorists got through and riddled the hotelâs façade and a security shack with bullets. Unconfirmed reports say that a security guard at the Arabian Homes compound adjacent to the hotel was shot and killed. According to other eyewitnesses, around 11 oâclock in the morning, a white vehicle was chased by police through Yanbu Al Bahr. After a violent confrontation with the police in a crowded main street, more deaths were reported after the vehicle exploded in flames, leaving at least one terrorist burning to death. At about the same time Soddy Clown Prince Abdullah publicly blamed Zionists for the recent attacks in Soddy (I shit you not).
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy ||
05/02/2004 2:23:26 AM ||
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The jihadists are the world's modern scourge, worse than the Mongol Horde.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 3:22 Comments ||
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The next things these terrorist rats will blame on the 'Zionists' will be sand storms, and their camels running away :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 3:24 Comments ||
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Its high time the clown prince pulls his prick out of the anus of his favorite camel and take a hard look around him ! If he does not wake up soon, he is going to find himself tied to a car bumper and dragged in the streets of Riad by his fellow brother gihadistas.
He may still try to blame the Zionists while he is being dragged but that is not going to help a lot.
On the other hand, somehow, I am not sure his loss would be such a horrible setback for mankind ???
Posted by: The Dodo ||
05/02/2004 8:19 Comments ||
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Sounds like a fairly "militant" anti-globalization protest...
Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdulaziz, Deputy Premier and Commander of the National Guard, received at the royal court at Alsalam palace in Jeddah today princes, ministers, senior personnel of the Royal Court and the Cabinet, a number of citizens and commanders and officers of the royal guard who came to greet him and congratulate him on safe arrival in Jeddah. Later, Crown Prince Abdullah received a number of university professors who expressed regret at the criminal acts which took place in the city of Riyadh recently. On behalf of them, Dr. Ayedh Algarni said the way to success and salvage is to follow moderation methods based on the holy Qur'an and Prophet's traditions. He called for credibility, determination and tolerance in confrontation of the attackers, appealing to Allah Almighty to continue bestowing security and stability on the kingdom.
I have no idea how you'd go about being tolerant in the midst of a shootout, though we've seen they're capable of doing so in the wake of some pretty hideous booms...
Addressing the gathering, the Crown Prince said the Kingdom is targeted. ''It became clear to us now that Zionism is behind terrorist actions in the Kingdom. I can say that I am 95 percent sure of that,'' he said.
That's probably the dumbest remark I've ever heard of him making. And he's remarked some corkers.
Cheez, he said he was only 95% sure.
He regretted that Zionism has misled some of our sons. The Crown Prince noted that today's Yanbu incident led to killing three attackers and injuring one. On their part, the attackers injured 25 Saudis and killed 4 or 5 foreigners and one guard and one policeman. Crown Prince Abdullah added that the misled persons also killed people at Public security. He described those deceived persons as stooges of Satan and colonialism, affirming that the Kingdom will be victorious in confronting any deviating group.
Colonialism? What in the world is he smoking?
The Crown Prince stressed that the Kingdom will strike with an iron fist anyone who tries to destabilize its security, adding that the Kingdom will eradicate this deviating group as long as it might last 20 or 30 years.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 1:45:31 AM ||
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Other than the sudden admission that Zionists have successfully infiltrated the Magic Kingdom and are running amok - armed, this is same old, same old blather.
So, um, how many Zionists are there running around the Kingdom, eh, Abbie? Lol! And killing your pets, how rude! Now it makes much less sense for Zionists to kill ExPats, especially Americans and Brits, but don't let logic get in your way. Zionists it is! You guys eat, sleep, and drink Zionist conspiracies. So this be manna from, um, Zion, I guess!
BTW, methinks it's pretty obvious that ol' Allen is still deaf but, hey, no sweat - you guys keep on hollering and begging for the Earth to shake, etc. Great stuff. Knock yerselves out. Love it. Normally I'd say it's good to be King, but in this case, I think it must suck to be you, dood! Schway, man, schway.
#3
Guess it depends on what you're king of, Lucky. In this case, he's the king of a bunch of failures and losers who can't accomplish anything on their own and can't even admit to themselves they're failures at everything - except perhaps repression and murder.
I think .com is right; no matter how much money and how many palaces this clown has, it must suck to be him. It must suck to be a Arab, a perpetual victim, period.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 3:12 Comments ||
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That's interesting. The Arab News version eliminates the word "Zionists" and replaces it with a "foreign hand."
Posted by: Fred ||
05/02/2004 3:21 Comments ||
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Its high time the clown prince pulls his prick out of the anus of his favorite camel and take a hard look around him ! If he does not wake up soon, he is going to find himself tied to a car bumper and dragged in the streets of Riad by his fellow brother gihadistas.
He may still try to blame the Zionists while he is being dragged but that is not going to help a lot.
On the other hand, somehow, I am not sure his loss would be such a horrible setback for mankind ???
Posted by: The Dodo ||
05/02/2004 8:25 Comments ||
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Sometimes you need a decoder ring to figure out what they have in mind. In this case, I'm just guessing, it's all the talk about Neo-Cons and that they are often depicted among the Arabs as being Jewish. And then there's the project-- the American Century? Etc!
Al-Sawany, the convicted killer of the former Assistant Secretary General of Yemeni Socialist Party, Jar Allah Omar, told a Sanaâa court on April 26 that the authorities should arrest people he described as seculars and infidels and the leader of Al-Buhra sect in Yemen. He also denied that there is any group or cell behind the killing of Jar Allah Omar. He said that he was the lone plotter and executor of the crime. The only person he was informed was Abbed Kamel, the murderer of the three American doctors. Neither Islah nor PGC Party or the state has anything to do with his action, he said, adding that political parties competed to blame the crime on each other because it was during the election season. Al-Sawany demanded the trial of Baâathists and Nasserites as infidels.
"Whether there's laws against 'em or not!"
He also demanded the arrest of representative of Sultan of Al-Buhra in Yemen, Mr. Salman Rasheed, and the leader of a Sect in Yemen as well as âAl-Taiyfeenâ sect. He also accused Islah Party of having two currents, which were the reasons behind his deviation. The first current led by Yassin Abdul Aziz and Dr. Mohamed Al-Yadoumi considering them deviants and the second current led by Sheikh Al-Zendani and his followers, who stood silently in front of the first current as a courtesy.
The accused revealed the brutal treatment he had received in the past by saying that during the four- month interrogating period, he was continuously blind-folded with his hands cuffed, even at times to go to the bathroom. He declared that if he were taken back for further interrogation, he would abstain from talking unless he was beaten severely and only then, he would implicate anyone the interrogating team wanted him to. He demanded his release and compensation for the suffering and time spend in jail and instead to jail the leaders of Yemen Socialist Party, and the leaders of Nasserite and Baâath parties.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/02/2004 1:29:25 AM ||
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[Troll droppings deleted]
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
05/02/2004 4:13 Comments ||
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Attention RBers, Man Bites Dog=Zenster.
That is all.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 5:53 Comments ||
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We should have a new feature, "Only in the Islamic World."
Only in the Islamic World . . .
. . . do convicted murderers get news stories where they broadcast their opinion on who the "criminals" are.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/02/2004 9:17 Comments ||
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This terr can cry me a river.
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
05/02/2004 4:13 Comments ||
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Followup to yesterday's story...
Suspected militants sprayed gunfire inside an oil contractor's Saudi office Saturday, killing at least six people — including two Americans and three other Westerners — and wounding dozens. Police killed four gunmen in a shootout after a car chase in which the attackers reportedly dragged the naked body of one victim behind their getaway car.
Not an original idea for an atrocity. Or did the perp have a classical bent?
One of the attackers killed was reported to be on the Saudi kingdom's list of most-wanted terrorists, many of them suspects in last year's suicide attacks on foreign housing compounds in the capital, Riyadh. The two attacks were blamed on al-Qaida. Three of the gunmen worked at the office of ABB-Lummus in the industrial city of Yanbu, 220 miles north of the Red Sea city of Jiddah. Many foreigners are employed by oil refineries and petrochemical plants in the region.
... where they have to worry about the locals turning on them.
The three gunmen used their key cards to enter the building and sneak another attacker through an emergency gate, according to an Interior Ministry source quoted by the official Saudi Press Agency. Witnesses told The Associated Press that police engaged in a shootout with the gunmen outside a Holiday Inn before overpowering them on a downtown street. A statement from the Interior Ministry said police killed three attackers and wounded and captured a fourth, who conveniently died later. "Using different arms, they started firing at the offices of the company's personnel before leaving the scene in a hurry to begin attacking a residential compound," the agency quoted the source as saying, giving no further details. The Interior Ministry statement said the gunmen walked into the offices and "randomly shot at Saudi and foreign employees." The offices are across the street from a petrochemicals plant co-owned by Exxon Mobil and the Saudi company SABIC. After the attacks, police moved in to secure Yanbu's streets with checkpoints throughout the city. There was no word on the motivation behind Saturday's shootings, but U.S. officials warned in recent weeks of possible attacks against foreigners in Saudi Arabia, an important U.S. ally.
My guess is the motivation for the attack had something to do with some spittle-spewing cleric exhorting the rubes to free the Arabian peninsula of infidels...
Intelligence has suggested al-Qaida wanted to strike at Saudi oil interests, and bin Laden has called for the overthrow of the Saudi royal family and questioned its Islamic credentials.
"Nope. Nope. Simply not holy enough."
The two Americans killed were engineers for ABB-Lummus, Houston-based the energy arm of multinational engineering company ABB. A British ABB employee, a British contractor and an Australian employee were also killed, spokesman Bjorn Edlund said from Zurich, Switzerland. In Sydney, the government identified the Australian as Anthony Richard Mason, 57. A European diplomat told AP that a second Australian also died, but it was not immediately possible to confirm that. There were conflicting reports on the number of wounded, ranging from 25 to 50, and of the number of Saudi victims. The Saudi Press Agency report said a Saudi National Guardsman was killed. The U.S. Embassy said several Saudi security forces were "killed and wounded in their fight with the terrorists," but gave no numbers.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/02/2004 1:08:42 AM ||
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Why, I'm not sure, but no one is saying the obvious: this is an Aramco facility - one of 5 oil refineries in-Kingdom. I know people in Yanbu and it was considered a very quiet (too quiet!) posting, something like being sent to Siberia - except for the fact that the weather is better (read: it is greener and more temperate) on the Western coasts of countries in that latitude, generally speaking. This is the same as an attack on an important Saudi Gov't facility. BUT, and here's the rub they sought, killing their pet ExPats, especially the engineers, will have the desired consequences. I am sure some will now get their families out. If there is a second attack on Expats - many will leave very very quickly and Aramco, despite the endless BS about Saudiazation and vehement protests to the contrary, will begin to suffer. They don't pay these guys what they pay them for fun. The good ExPat engrs keep the plants tuned up for max output.
If their purpose is to scare expats away, why not attack Aramco's main camp: Dhahran? This camp is ridiculously easy to get into and the admiration for Osama runs high, so what is stopping them?
#4
..Actually, they may not have hit Dhahran because it it's a Real Target(TM) on the same order as Riyadh. I get the feeling that the attacks there a few days ago were met with some genuine ruthlessness on the part of the Soddy authorities, and the terrs decided that it would be a lot safer to whack a few infidels out in the (comparative) boonies, where the security is smaller and a lot sleepier.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
05/02/2004 9:57 Comments ||
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I have a question about the cars I saw on the news yesterday. The story is that the contractors were shot by the (now dead) gunmen, yet the news cameras showed a car that was a completely burned out shell. Did they get shot with flamethrowers?
#6
A4617 - Indeed, for Arabs in Saudi "dress" it IS easy. They were hell on wheels about searching the cars of Westerners entering the "Core Area" - used to search me every day - but let Saudis pass through with a wave -- all you need is the right sticker on your windshield. I joked that WE weren't the terrorists with the guards regularly, until one day the Supervisor from Industrial Security was there to tell me this "joke" of mine was not funny and if I persisted they would drag my ass in for "questioning" - so the joke became unfunny damned quickly.
Folks that don't know: Aramco has its own "police" (IS) and they are, relatively speaking, well equipped and trained.
You're right - if they want to kill ExPats, then Dhahran is the place to make a big splash. But they would have zero chance of getting away. Even isolated Yanbu proved how well armed and how quickly Aramco's Industrial Security can act. The killing in Yanbu wasn't the local Barney Fifes - it was IS, armed and trained by American and Brit advisors, though I'll bet most of them have been "replaced" now by Saudis. It would be a bona-fide suicide mission.
EFL
Some of the most prominent former diplomats who condemned Tony Blairâs policies in the Middle East have business links with Arab governments, The Telegraph can reveal. In a letter published last week, 52 former British diplomats condemned the invasion of Iraq and the Governmentâs support for Israel. The letter failed to disclose, however, that several of the key signatories, including Oliver Miles, the former British ambassador to Libya who instigated the letter, are paid by pro-Arab organisations. Some of the others hold positions in companies seeking lucrative Middle East contracts, while others have unpaid positions with pro-Arab organisations.
The disclosure last night prompted allegations - denied by the diplomats - that they were merely promoting the interests of their clients. Andrew Dismore, the Labour MP for Hendon, said: "If an MP had made statements like these without declaring an interest in the subject they would have been before the standards and privileges committee we would have had their guts for garters. "This casts a very different light on what the former diplomats have said." Go to link for details.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
05/02/2004 5:42:03 AM ||
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no suprises here. Did they think we wouldn't check?
Posted by: b ||
05/02/2004 11:24 Comments ||
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Is there a full and comprehensive list of these guys, including their individual interests and assets, or would that take too long?
President Fidel Castro said Saturday that the country would defend itself "to the last drop of blood," declaring Cuba unafraid of a U.S. measures to change the island's four-decade-old socialist system. Speaking for nearly two hours ...
A short one!
... before hundreds of thousands of people bored out of their skulls during the island's annual May Day celebration, Castro warned U.S. officials to be "calmer, more sensible, wiser and more intelligent" before the expected release of a report by the U.S. government's Commission for a Free Cuba. The report is to recommend measures to hasten a democratic transition in Cuba and to provide assistance afterward. Cuban officials have speculated that the recommendations could include military action.
Military action? That'll sour a cigar.
Alluding to the upcoming report, Castro said plans were under way to "affect the economy and destabilize the country" and talked about "the same old murderous ideas" - an apparent reference at earlier attempts to assassinate him. Castro said Cuba "will be defended with laws and will be defended with arms when necessary - until the last drop of blood." Since the United States launched its war on Iraq, Cuban officials have repeatedly expressed concerns that the island could be next. American authorities deny they are planning military action against Cuba.
Pity they don't believe a word we say.
They have difficulty believing they're not very important.
In his speech, Castro also defended Cuba's human rights record, saying that the disappearances, torture and extrajudicial killings that plague other nations do not exist here.
"We do all our killings out in the open!"
He said the prison camp for terror suspects at the Guantanamo U.S. Naval Base in the island's east is "one of the most grotesque cases of human rights violations." International rights groups have predictably criticized the treatment of more than 600 suspected al-Qaida and Taliban supporters at the camp.
We should make it known quietly that we've saved cells for Fidel and Raoul, just to enjoy the resulting paranoid spittle.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 12:14:03 AM ||
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Why is Castro, 90 miles off the south Florida coast still running the show in Cuba??
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 1:18 Comments ||
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I believe he is relevant only to those souls (and relatives of same) remaining in his Hell. Everyone else couldn't care less
Posted by: Dorf ||
05/02/2004 8:02 Comments ||
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AL-QAEDA is secretly investing in blue-chip Australian stocks and using the profits to help finance terrorism.
British intelligence agencies have established the terror group is also targeting top technology and defence corporations in Australia, Singapore and other Pacific Rim countries.
They say al-Qaeda is laundering billions of dollars it earns through drug-running, with the help of Chinaâs Secret Intelligence Service.
US Treasury agents, working closely with European intelligence services, believe more than $A1 billion has been invested in stocks by al-Qaeda since the start of the year.
The money has been laundered through unsuspecting banks as far apart as Australia, Japan, Germany and Ireland.
British intelligence agency MI6 has also established that al-Qaedaâs partner in the drug running was the China SIS.
Brian McAdam, a former Canadian diplomat who is the leading expert on Chinese spying, said : "Only now are Western intelligence agencies becoming aware of the links that CSIS has with drugs, money laundering and the support it provides for terrorists. We are talking of billions of dollars."
With Mr McAdamâs help, the FBI has identified 3000 companies in the US - "some of whom are major players on Wall Street" - who are not only controlled by CSIS, but are linked to al-Qaeda through its investments.
It is working with the highest-ranking Chinese defector to the US, Xu Junping, who for five years oversaw all secret CSIS operations against the West.
Mr Xu has described Beijing meetings with Osama bin Laden in 2000, during which the investment plan was discussed.
Al-Qaeda has used ultra-sophisticated money laundering techniques. At its centre is the software program Promis, developed by a Washington company for US intelligence.
A copy of the software was sold to the Russians by Richard Hanssen, an FBI computer specialist who was a long-time KGB spy. He confessed that the Russians sold it to bin Laden four years ago for $A3 million.
* Gordon Thomas is security correspondent for the Sunday Express (UK) and author of Gideonâs Spies: Mossadâs Secret Warriors
Posted by: tipper ||
05/02/2004 4:41:32 AM ||
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This Gordon Thomas guy has a hell of an imagination.
#2
OH great, now China is goint to be a sponsor of AQ? That's all we need. It would make sense for them though -- doing everything they can to undermine US power around the world. The 21st century is going to be quite a ride.
#3
this should not come as a suprise...i do not believe is an al-queda is as actively supported operationally as say iran but china is a very dangerous threat..just read thier own white papes on defense and can see they are not friends nor economic competitors but enemys.. the US needs to wake up to this threat and deal with china more harshly...does being able to buy piece of crap cheap outwiegh the treat posed by the chicoms...
Posted by: Dan ||
05/02/2004 12:35 Comments ||
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AL-QAEDA is secretly investing in blue-chip Australian stocks and using the profits to help finance terrorism. British intelligence agencies have established the terror group is also targeting top technology and defence corporations in Australia, Singapore and other Pacific Rim countries. They say al-Qaeda is laundering billions of dollars it earns through drug-running, with the help of China's Secret Intelligence Service.
That's interesting. It'd show a distinct short-sightedness on the part of the Chinese, which surprises me...
US Treasury agents, working closely with European intelligence services, believe more than $A1 billion has been invested in stocks by al-Qaeda since the start of the year. The money has been laundered through unsuspecting banks as far apart as Australia, Japan, Germany and Ireland. British intelligence agency MI6 has also established that al-Qaeda's partner in the drug running was the China SIS. Brian McAdam, a former Canadian diplomat who is the leading expert on Chinese spying, said : "Only now are Western intelligence agencies becoming aware of the links that CSIS has with drugs, money laundering and the support it provides for terrorists. We are talking of billions of dollars." With Mr McAdam's help, the FBI has identified 3000 companies in the US - "some of whom are major players on Wall Street" - who are not only controlled by CSIS, but are linked to al-Qaeda through its investments. It is working with the highest-ranking Chinese defector to the US, Xu Junping, who for five years oversaw all secret CSIS operations against the West. Mr Xu has described Beijing meetings with Osama bin Laden in 2000, during which the investment plan was discussed. Al-Qaeda has used ultra-sophisticated money laundering techniques. At its centre is the software program Promis, developed by a Washington company for US intelligence. A copy of the software was sold to the Russians by Richard Hanssen, an FBI computer specialist who was a long-time KGB spy. He confessed that the Russians sold it to bin Laden four years ago for $A3 million.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 1:53:47 AM ||
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Very interesting if true.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
05/02/2004 5:56 Comments ||
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#2
It actually makes more sense (to me atleast) for a country like China to support Al Qaeda, than someone like Saddam to do so. China has its own small Muslim minority of course, but Al Qaeda's primary regional focus would be countries like Pakistan and India, both neighbours of China, both countries whose weakening and instability would favour China.
Russia and China (with North Korea as a satellite state of China ofcourse) are among the side-supporters of the Islamofascist axis, no matter how much Russia pretends that her butchery at Chechenya is part of the "War on Terror", and no matter how much China pretends the same about the oppression of Xinjiang (east Turkestan).
#3
This isn't all that surprising (if true). The PRC has closely studied indirect warfare against powerful targets and would have been happy to fund a group like al Qaeda, which is more a terrorism clearinghouse than anything else. Moreover, I read somewhere that PRC strategists actually wrote about using commercial jetliners as cruise missiles. So they make natural allies.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
05/02/2004 19:29 Comments ||
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Vandals painted swastikas on 20 tombstones at a Christian cemetery in eastern France yesterday - two days after a similar incident occurred at a nearby Jewish cemetery, officials said. The symbols were discovered by visitors to the Christian cemetery in the town of Niederhaslach.
#1
My guess is the perps are radical Tibetan monks.
Posted by: Mark ||
05/02/2004 21:49 Comments ||
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#2
No, Mark, not their MO.
I believe it is the work of the extremist Amish Sect of the Mennonite church.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
05/02/2004 22:08 Comments ||
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#3
I'm declaring a Catholic Fatwa - Crusaders heads UP!
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 22:55 Comments ||
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#4
Can Protestants join, too, please?
Victory to the Crusaders!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 22:58 Comments ||
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#5
Mmmm...let's all savor the foretaste of Sharia. Yum, yum.
Posted by: Les Nessman ||
05/02/2004 23:04 Comments ||
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#6
Most likely the work of drunken bums and or kids.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 23:10 Comments ||
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#7
Maybe the same sick creeps that targeted the Jewish graveyards previously thought they were in another Jewish cemetery.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 23:12 Comments ||
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#8
That musta been some high....guess they were too drunk or crazy to see the huge crosses and crucifixes!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 23:14 Comments ||
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#9
Maybe the same sick creeps that targeted the Jewish graveyards previously thought they were in another Jewish cemetery.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 23:16 Comments ||
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#10
These IslamoNazi thugs hate Christians, Americans and Shi'ites as much as they hate Jews.
This just shows that they're broadening the jihad in France.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 23:21 Comments ||
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#11
Was there an ACLU convention in Paris?
Posted by: Random thoughts ||
05/02/2004 23:50 Comments ||
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British athletes are to have 24-hour armed guards to protect them against terrorist attacks during the Olympics in Athens this summer. The Greek guards have been ordered as part of the worldâs biggest anti-terrorism operation, which is intended to safeguard competitors from the threat of violence by al-Qaâeda or other groups. A spokesman for the Greek ministry of public order told The Telegraph: "We are talking about armed guards for every official and non-official activity, including shopping and sightseeing." The protection will cover all "off-duty" trips outside the heavily fortified Olympic village, with athletes given the kind of security usually reserved for visiting heads of state. Their buses will have armed guards and be accompanied by armoured vehicles and police helicopters.
Greek officials denied that the measure was in response to British and American requests to use their own armed guards. This, they said, would have been "a recipe for anarchy". Instead, security planners have divided the competing nations into three levels of risk. All countries that fall into the high or medium-risk categories will be afforded the same 24-hour armed protection. Britain, which will send more than 300 athletes to the Games, the United States and Israel have been given top-priority status. Other nations in the Iraq coalition are expected to receive similar protection.
A seven-nation advisory group on security, which is chaired by Assistant Commissioner David Veness, Scotland Yardâs head of special operations, has approved the plans for "high-risk nations". The precautions underline how seriously Greece takes the terrorist threat, although there are concerns that the huge security presence could overshadow the sporting celebration. The measures are part of a general tightening of security following the Madrid bombings and have taken the budget for protecting the Games from £430 million to £680 million. Although there has been no specific intelligence that al-Qaâeda is plotting an attack on the Games, which take place from August 13-29, there are fears that the Madrid bombings and the deepening crisis in Iraq could lead to Britain and the US withdrawing their teams. Mark Spitz, the American who won seven swimming gold medals at the terrorist-hit Munich Games in 1972, said last week that he had doubts about whether the US would risk competing in Athens. Americaâs Olympic committee distanced itself from his remarks.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
05/02/2004 6:08:26 AM ||
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#1
And if something happens to one of these people than Greece will be seen as responsible for providing substandard bodyguards? It doesn't look like a win win strategy.
#2
3dc> Perhaps so, but foreign bodyguards in Greece would probably tend to arouse the anger of the various communist/anarchist groups and get chauvinists to support them while they are at it.
Yeah, Greece will be blamed if something happens - but this something probably has fewer chances of happening with native guards. I think I tend to agree with the officials in question in this regard.
#3
Aris I'm curious as to whether using Greek nationals would create a Greek financial liability? I'd be wanting to use team-country nationals to avoid the lawsuits.
#5
I have no clue on the financial issue. Either way, in the case of a successful attack by terrorists, I'm pretty sure that the political (both internal and international) cost would hurt the Greek government far *far* more than any financial compensation would.
Security from other nations would be heavily frowned upon as they might end up needing to serve in the role of a police -- I don't even want to imagine the reactions if American bodyguards needed to violently restrain some Greek troublemaker. Greek bodyguards wouldn't cause resentment - which means they could act more freely and with greater effectiveness.
Authorities on Saturday released three Jordanian police officers detained after a Kosovo prison shootout that killed three American corrections officers and an assailant. Officials are investigating whether the officers helped their commander, Sgt. Maj. Ahmed Mustafa Ibrahim Ali, as he opened fire on the Americans on April 17. But they could only be detained without formal charges for 15 days under Kosovo law, said Neeraj Singh, a U.N. spokesman. The investigation of the attack is continuing and the officers still face the possibility of charges, Singh said. Another officer was still in custody on suspicion of assisting murder and causing grave bodily harm. Three American officers were killed and 11 were wounded when Ali opened fire on them as they left their first day of work at the prison in the northern city of Kosovska Mitrovica. The officers shot and killed Ali after a 10-minute gunfight.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/02/2004 1:21:02 AM ||
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So UN forces are held to Kosovo Law while the UN tries to hold US judges to ICC law (a month or so back)?
Sorry but this load of bull is too much to swallow.
In the Style section last summer we profiled a Los Angeles writer named Micah Ian Wright, whoâd just published a shrill antiwar poster book called "You Back the Attack! Weâll Bomb Who We Want!" In his book, he described himself as a veteran of combat, a former Army Ranger whose experiences during the 1989 invasion of Panama turned him into a peacenik. In interviews with The Post and other media, he played up that background.
Wright, it turns out, is a liar. He never served in the military -- and confessed that last week to his publisher, Seven Stories Press, after we insisted on evidence of his service. Pursuing a tip from real Rangers who'd never heard of Wright, we filed three Freedom of Information Act requests with separate Army commands -- and last month finally confirmed that Wright never served. "I feel awful about it. It was a lie that just grew and grew and grew," Wright, 34, told us Friday. He said mounting combat deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, including that of Ranger Pat Tillman, compound his sense of remorse: "I plan to make a public apology on my Web site [www.micahwright.com]." This guy is a real piece of work. He used to scream at those who questioned his work by saying how heâd dodged bullets but that they were chickenhawks who had no right to talk about war...
#4
Here's his lame-ass apology. The smart-assery content dilutes the actual "I'm sorry" bit to the point of meaningless. I bet the s.o.b. was smirking as he typed it.
Posted by: Dar ||
05/02/2004 18:39 Comments ||
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#5
Seems the WaPo still has standards. Had this been the NYT, it wouldn't have seen the light of day until the end of November.
From an interview with Daniel Pipes, some ominous predictions:
Pipes defines an Islamist as one who believes Islam is the solution to every problem. "In America, an Islamist would be somebody who wants to replace the constitution with the Qurâan.2 It is a totalitarian movement that has much in common with fascism and Marxism-Leninism." He estimates that about 10-15 percent of Muslims in the world are Islamists, which is tantamount to well over a hundred million people. Pipes adds that the percentage is probably in the same order of magnitude among U.S. Muslims. He forecasts: "There will be more attacks by Islamists on Americans. I can say this confidently because so many signs point in this direction. These assaults will awaken people. I expect it to be a one-way process of what I call education by murder. I do expect ever more Americans to worry; contrarily, I do not expect to hear many say, âWell, I used to be worried about the threat of militant Islam, but no longer.â As time passes and more events occur, their assessment will become more realistic...âextremistsâ have âtaken over 80 percent of the mosquesâ in the United States..."The Muslim population in this country is not like any other group, for it includes within it a substantial body of people - many times more numerous than the agents of Osama bin Laden - who share with the suicide hijackers a hatred of the United States and the desire, ultimately, to transform it into a nation living under the strictures of militant Islam.
The fifth columnists will denounce any and all statements like Pipesâs. The jihadists will force the realization of its truth on the American people in years to come.
#1
Sigh. I guess there's something to admire regards how Pipes has finally, slowly, deliberately, logically, and finally come full circle regards Islam. He was once almost an apologist. Now he's almost truth-telling, though I wish he'd add more "ooomph" to it. Perhaps it's coming, just at his own pace of acceptance.
18 months ago I railed against him once for being too soft - a sucker for their public blather when the reality was, literally, bloody obvious. Now, with reservations, I applaud some of what he writes -- his long experience and deep knowledge of the RoP is a powerful force, currently stil nascent. Someday he'll reach the obvious conclusion: that missing 80-85 percent that he says aren't directly involved are, in fact, implicit supporters...
Perhaps, then, he'll "out" these fuckers and call a spade a spade. At the moment, well, he's still prattling on their relative innocence. Sigh redux.
#2
.com, you're a smart guy, and the Defeat at Falluajh has me inordinantly depressed, so it is maybe not fair of me to ask this question, But...
15% hardcore islamists, plus 85% implicit supporters, equals a vary difficult problem. I just don't see any way out of the box that we are in. Western society, western ethics & world view will simply not allow the kind of responses that...seem necessary and called for.
The truth is that not even I am entirely comfortable getting behind, "Going Medieval." Maybe Pipes has it correct, there will be an, Educuation by Murder, but this would inevitably seem to be a long, bloody and painful process, as educuations tend to be.
#3
I completely agree with Pipes writes here. One thing that I've noticed about Islam is that, unlike it's communism compatriots who were willing to wait generations to destroy from within to achieve their utopia, the islmamists are not patient. More like facists, they want it all right now.
So, although the LLL initially greeted them as enthusiastic partners in their blame America game, even they are beginning to realize they have invited cold blooded murderer's into their midst.
Communists socialists and social misfits were content with the power and belonging that they could achieve immediately by joining "secret groups" and even getting positions in local/state/national governments and then just wait it out, in their comfortable homes, for the revolution that would bring Utopia. The George Galloway, Michael Moore types were happy to spew anti-American blame as they collected their checks from those who were happy to support them. LLL were content to be useful idiots in exchange for the "cool factor" that was granted them ..allowing them to look down their noses at the simpletons who couldn't grasp the nuance of their greatness.
In a sense, the communists were like heart disease - you could have the french fries today because tomorrow or soon... you'd start your healthful living plan. But the Islamist's are like an acute illness - if you don't address it today, it will kill you tomorrow.
Muslims simply want to rush in and make it happen now. There is no faith or utopia..just a bunch of stinky Jews and infidels - like rats in your house that need to be killed.
As the LLL begins to realize the evil of those they have welcomed, they will be forced to join forces with the rest of civilized society for their own survival.
Posted by: b ||
05/02/2004 20:36 Comments ||
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#4
I think Pipes had absolutely hit the nail on the thumb - he is correct - a world war is already underway, but only one side is aware of it and fighting it - the Islamasists.
But - the other combatant in this world war - the rest of the civilized world - will eventually figure it out. It is going to create a terrible carnage - "going Medieval" is probably a pretty good term. Many fairly innocuous (if not utterly "innocent") Muslims are going to be destroyed in the campaign to erradicate the Islamacists - that's a shame, but - war is hell - each of the other world wars killed a lot of innocents as well.
And - this world war will be a battle of total annihilation - and only one side can emerge standing. I sure hope that the modern world wins - otherwise we will be living in the sort of world that the sci-fi writers used to have fun with - ala Mad Max, Star Trek's "Coms and Yangs," the H.G. Wells "Time Machine," the "Dune" series - except this time it will be for real.
We - the modern world - are at war - globally, irretrievably, and with our survival at stake. We just don't know it. And we are too nice to do what needs to be done. It is a battle of annihilation - and the sooner we start annihilating, the better the outcome will be for us. I.e. - if the extremists have taken over 80% of the mosques, then it is time to quickly obliterate every mosque - and obliterate every madrass and dowah along with the mosques - larval extremists being fair game - it is, after all, a BATTLE OF ANNIHILATION.
We need to stop agonizing, stop apologizing, and - GET ON WITH IT. The slaughter needs to start. THEY have long ago started their side of the slaughter - albeit pretty puny on the grand scale. What are we going to do - wait until the Islamasists in a few more countries (beyond Pakistan) finish building their nuclear arsenals?
Start with obliteration of the House of Saud - and completly obliterate Mecca and Medina. Turn Israel loose to create a sterile zone of about 1000 kilometers all around their borders. Tell Musharraf to expunge the Islamasists from his country, or we'll do it for him.
Turn infestations such as Karbala, Najaf, and Fallujah into awe-inspiring examples of what modern technology can do to 8th century barbarians.
Ahhh .... after letting that rant out, I feel better. Rantburg is good for the soul!
#5
Trav - Hey, where've you been? You do ask pithy questions, Lol! I want to quickly run away from the "smart" thing - I've just seen these guys up close and personal, and it's an ugly nasty Pollyanna-gang-rape experience I don't wish on anyone. I went there for my Arabian Advanture. I came home almost exactly a year ago thoroughly disabused of such foolishness.
As for going medievel, well, the fact that we discuss this - with the discomfort you indicate - is proof that we have insulated ourselves in normal life from some hard realities that are kept at bay by a thin gossamer layer of civility. Most don't have Clue One - and that's because our kickass Military, our proxies, handle the throwbacks for us. You can say the same of our awesome Police - they deal with the trash and, as best they can / are allowed, they insulate us from the nasty reality that some "humans" are already medievel.
Meeting it head on with like action is coming. What proves you're a civilized man is your response. I echo it up to the point of us vs them. Sadly, for it will be an ugly eye-opener for most of us, they insist on this equation.
Atomic Conspiracy has even taken this to the next level today in another thread: not only will we be forced eventually to meet them in like, we will be forced to meet our own loonies with force when their fragile twisted grip on reality is challenged this election season. I'm afraid his insight might be accurate.
I am worried... but not by the medievel. Not to be too cute about it, I am worried that if we falter and lose our will, such as electing some idiot like Skeery, when push come to shove we will be forced to go modern on them - genocidally modern. The number of reality-challenged people in the West who would never accept that it's us vs. them will really lose their cookies over that... and AC's prescience may be extended to a much wider civil conflict. Just imagine.
I'd like to hear what you think - you always come at issues from a different perspective. I apologize, but I can't locate the thread in which AC posted his prediction of civil violence.
#6
Oops - two kickass posts came in while I was abusing my keyboard! Definitely some hardcore idea in them, too.
One thing I left out of my post: I don't consider Fallujah even remotely "over" - eventually this experiment will likely fail as the jihadis win over the "more rational" Muslims in Salah's force. That has been the pattern everywhere, thus far, and why I don't buy the "moderate Muslim" myth. We'll see, but I wouldn't put a $2 bet on it working out well... And note that our Marines haven't gone anywhere - the cordon is still intact and will remain that way until the experiment plays out.
#7
I think our conception of civility and warfare will be changed dramatically by the Arab experience: Islamic Heroes⢠who slaughter women and children and NGO helpers, while hiding behind women and children
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 21:04 Comments ||
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Any adult alive that didn't get "educated" on 9-11 may well never understand how this is another World War.
I'm still hoping that somebody here can suggest a credible deterrent to Islamist terror that is better than what I have mentioned here in other posts. One had better be found real d@mn soon to have the least hope of preserving any semblance of what we currently enjoy as a world.
The only alternative to NBC retaliation-in-kind against Islam's Holy shrines would be for an international coalition to take military possession of Saudi Arabia and thereby control the sites physically. If this world is held permanent hostage to random ultra-violence by one religion then a deterrent is per force going to be associated with any nexus of that faith. These shrines are the single commonality within all Islam's sphere of believers. Only a lever against every member of Islam will achieve the desired threat against those specific individuals who would embrace violent jihad.
While still representing a defilement, physical occupation would at least avoid all permanent desecration of these sites via NBC contamination. The cost of operating the military cordon would be compensated by appropriated oil exports. The satisfying vengeance of obliterating an Islamic shrine, even in light of atomic terror attack is a little too bloodthirsty. We need to take over the shrines now and hold them equal hostage. Barring that, NBC retaliation-in-kind is demanded.
Again, I welcome any other suggestions regarding how to credibly deter Islamist terror. There isn't much time left and few people recognize it. This isn't "the-sky-is-falling," this is a solid in-your-face, "some major city is going to take it right in the shorts real soon" if we fail to find some way.
#9
"...Again, I welcome any other suggestions regarding how to credibly deter Islamist terror..."
We've told you, asshat Zenster: Re-elect President Bush.
Period.
4 MORE YEARS.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 22:19 Comments ||
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#10
My first encounter with Pipes was through WND, when CAIR protested his nomination to the Peace think-tank. Since that time it has become more apparent what CAIR feared, the truth spoken rationally. I hope he has several German Shepherds and a Magnum at the house.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
05/04/2004 0:43 Comments ||
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The chief of the U.S. Army Reserve condemned the abusive treatment of Iraqi war prisoners Saturday and said he has ordered a study of whether reservists are sufficiently trained in ethical conduct and how to treat prisoners. Following a meeting with families of the reserve unit at the center of the investigation, Lt. Gen. James R. Helmly said photographs of naked inmates forced to assume humiliating positions beside grinning military police reservists "go against the grain of everything America's Army stands for." Helmly, commander of 1.1 million reservists, said that if the allegations against six reservists are true, "it undermines our values of respect, dignity and honor, and we hold those values deeply."
The reservists, members of the 372nd Military Police Company of Cresaptown, have been charged with crimes including dereliction of duty, cruelty, assault and indecent acts. Their boss, Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade, and at least seven others have been suspended from their duties at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to the U.S. military. Army Reserve spokesman Al Schilf said questions from the approximately 90 family members at the meeting mainly concerned the unit's extended deployment through early September. About 130 soldiers in the unit had already left Iraq and were preparing to return home last month when their active duty was extended. President Bush has condemned the mistreatment, saying he shared "a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated."
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 12:28:02 AM ||
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Omar over at Iraqthemodel has a well reasoned, spittleless comment on the Abu Gharib prisoner abuses posted May 1. http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Via Instapundit. EFL.
No other organisation is regarded with such respect as the United Nations. This is perhaps natural, for the UN embodies some of humanityâs noblest dreams. But, as the current scandal surrounding the UNâs administration of the Iraq oil-for-food program demonstrates, and as the world remembers the Rwanda genocide that began 10 years ago, respect for the UN should be viewed as something of a superstition, with Secretary-General Kofi Annan as its false prophet. Not since Dag Hammarskjold has a UN leader been as acclaimed as Annan. [I remember Hammarskjold; Coffee isnât fit to wipe his boots.]
Up to a point, this is understandable. Annan usually maintains an unruffled, dignified demeanour. He has charm and â many say â charisma. But a leader ought to be judged by his or her actions when important matters are at stake. [Not by the LLL; intentions are more important than results.]
Annanâs failures in such situations are almost invariably glossed over... That is the culture of the UN: believe the best of barbarians, do nothing to provoke controversy among superiors, and let others be the butt of criticism afterwards. Even subsequent revelations about Annanâs responsibility for the disasters in Rwanda and Bosnia did not affect his standing. On the contrary, he was unanimously re-elected and awarded the Nobel Peace Prize... Annan had at his disposal all the instruments of power and opinion [Raoul] Wallenberg lacked. Yet, when thousands or hundreds of thousands of people were exposed to mortal threats he had the authority and duty to avert, alleviate, or at least announce, he failed. Now, despite revelations about bribery in the UNâs oil-for-food program for Iraq, the world is clamouring to entrust Annan with the future of more than 20 million Iraqis who survived Saddam Hussein dictatorship. That is because of who Annan is and what the UN has become: an institution in which no shortcoming, it seems, goes unrewarded. Per Ahlmark is a former deputy prime minister of Sweden Read the whole thing at the link. The leftists in general, and the UN in particular, should be ashamed, but thatâs a concept theyâre clinically incapable of grasping.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 7:14:22 PM ||
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Excellent - and bluntly accurate - rather unusual for the Ozzie press! Great catch - I'll pass this link on to some of my more persistent idiotarian friends. Thx!
The United Nations has threatened to fire two officials who wrote an expose of sleaze and corruption during its peacekeeping missions of the 1990s. Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General, is understood to have favoured an attempt to block publication of the memoir, Emergency Sex and Other Desperate Measures, a True Story from Hell on Earth, due to be published next month.
Still reeling from the Iraqi oil-for-food scandal, officials in the upper echelons of the UN are alarmed by the promised revelations of wild sex parties, petty corruption, and drug use - diversions that helped the peacekeepers to cope with alternating states of terror and boredom. Other senior officials, however, have apparently argued that any attempt to gag the bookâs three co-authors - Heidi Postlewait and Andrew Thomson, who are still on the UN payroll, and Kenneth Cain, who is now a writer - would prompt more negative publicity.
Under UN staff rules, writers have to submit manuscripts for scrutiny. Authors can be disciplined if their work is not approved but they insist on publication. Last week, a UN spokesman admitted that the book had been judged not to be within the interests of the organisation. "We canât stop them publishing, but the rule means that the two who still work for us can be disciplined and dismissed," he said. The co-authors, who met in Cambodia in 1993 and later worked in Haiti, Kosovo, Liberia and Somalia, claim that petty corruption over expense accounts and living allowances was rife.
Ms Postlewait was in her early thirties when she went on her first trip abroad for the UN, supervising elections in Cambodia. There, she soon worked out that she could save enough money from her expense account to set herself up nicely back in New York. In other frauds, UN staff were said to quote blackmarket currency exchange rates to pad out their expenses. The authors also complain that they encountered "bureaucratic betrayal" on missions, as the UN allegedly struck cynical deals with corrupt local officials. One senior UN official who defended the book said that he believed it belonged in the "contemporary tradition of gritty war reporting", and would do little damage to the reputation of UN peacekeepers.
Last week, none of the three authors was available for comment. Mr Thomson, the son of missionaries, is in Cambodia, where he has built a house, and Mr Cain, a law school graduate from Harvard, is in Vietnam. The UN spokesman said that Ms Postlewait was travelling, but did not know her whereabouts.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
05/02/2004 5:46:12 AM ||
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And this is an organization dedicated to human rights and giving every nation a voice? Bulls**t. There's no reason for such a rule, not in such a *good and pure* organization. Yet another reason the UN needs to be taken apart.
Posted by: The Doctor ||
05/02/2004 9:21 Comments ||
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#2
The UN spokesman said that Ms Postlewait was travelling, but did not know her whereabouts.
Nowhere the UN sleazoids can find her, if she's smart.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 10:40 Comments ||
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The chief of police in Indonesiaâs South Sulawesi province has lost his job after President Megawati Soekarnoputri complained about police violence at protests against the arrest of militant cleric Abu Bakar Bashir. Megawati met her national police chief, General Dai Bachtiar on Saturday night after national television showed South Sulawesi police clubbing scores of madrassa talibs university students with revolvers and batons. The students had been protesting against Bashirâs arrest immediately after he was released from jail on Friday. General Bachtiar announced yesterday that Mrs Megawati had ordered him to act against the police whose officers were shown entering classrooms at the Indonesian Muslim University in Makassar to beat students, some of whom had taken a traffic policeman hostage during their demonstration. He said he had removed South Sulawesiâs police chief inspector, General Jusuf Manggabarani - who had just announced the removal of at least two of his most senior officers in an attempt to contain the fallout from the violence. About 60 students were wounded, including two who were shot. The protest is likely to strengthen opposition to the arrest of Bashir, for interrogation over terrorist offences. Megawati also issued an apology to the students. Good dhimmi.
Posted by: Seafarious ||
05/02/2004 11:56:56 AM ||
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I'm still worried that Megawai may have several hidden brigades of Reddy Wiredhands.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 12:28 Comments ||
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WTHOT
Frank G. you ever wondered what happen to Reddy Kilowatt and his Socialist pal Wiredhand?
I'm gonna tell ya. During the great safety move of the late '70s the gentle electro characters were seen last walking about on 2 prongs (ungrounded). Drawing them with a ground proved very difficult. I'm going to leave the rest to you.
Philippine authorities have uncovered a bomb plot in the capital, Manila, after arresting two Muslim men with a homemade explosive near a cathedral and the elections commission office, the military said Sunday. Military intelligence agents and policemen detained the two men late Saturday in Manilaâs historic Intramuros district with a 60mm mortar round converted into a bomb that could be detonated using a cell phone, the military said in a statement. It didnât mention a suspected target. Authorities were hunting for other people believed to be involved in the suspected bomb plot based on information from the two men, said military spokesman Lt. Col. Daniel Lucero.
The military appealed to Manila residents to remain calm and vigilant. Information from recently arrested terror suspects helped the military and police foil "a terrorist plan to sabotage an installation in Intramuros," and to arrest the would-be saboteurs, the military said. It didnât provide details. Authorities arrested the two men in a van parked on a dimly lit street near a square where the Manila Cathedral and the national elections commission office are located, officials said. Metropolitan Manila police chief Ricardo de Leon said the bomb found in their possession was ready to be detonated.
Michael Defensor, a spokesman for President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, a frontrunner in the May 10 presidential elections, said her three-day campaign trip starting Tuesday in southern and central provinces has been canceled due to fears of attacks by Muslim extremists. Defensor didnât elaborate, but said the threats were serious enough "for us to change the last leg of the campaign." Defense Secretary Eduardo Ermita said he didnât think the foiled bomb plot would affect the timing of the elections but called on candidates to refrain from "excessive partisan politics that may render the situation vulnerable to exploitation by terrorist elements." Security forces have been on heightened alert ahead of the elections, and because of concerns over possible terrorist attacks. Arroyo announced on March 30 the arrests of suspected members of the Muslim extremist group Abu Sayyaf who allegedly planned to use a cache of TNT to carry out bombings in Manila. Police said one suspect admitted planting a bomb on a ferry in late February that triggered a fire, killing more than 100 people.
Posted by: TS (vice girl) ||
05/02/2004 10:07:43 AM ||
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I know it's no surprise to anyone here, but I wonder when/if the LLL will finally notice that these stories are never about Lutheran or Amish bombers.
Most likely, they'd rather die of terminal PC-itis that admit that, while most Muslims may not be terrorist bombers, 99.9% of all terrorist bombers are Muslims.
The LLL (and that includes the "mainstream" media) need a liberal Cluebat⢠application. Soon.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 11:30 Comments ||
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Philippinos turning terrorists is the proof that Islam is the problem. Here in Saudi Arabia, a large part of the labor force are catholic philippinos. These people, in spite of being abused and exploited by their masters, the saudis, always have an smile in their faces and are the kindest, friendliest, gentlest and most generous people one can ever meet. They will never think of slitting their saudi masters' throats, as they very well deserve it. But, get them to read the Koran and they are ready to blow somebody up.
#3
A4617 - right on! Indeed, the "Flips" (as the American Phillipinos call themselves - now catching on in Saudi) are the good guys in Saudi. I dunno if you work for Aramco, but what you say is true of those who do. When you wanted something actually done and an American or Brit wasn't in a position to help you, you skipped the Indians and PakisWakis and Saudis -- and hoped a Phillipino was somehow involved, cuz that's who you could count on to assist you. I was very happy in my engineering Dept cuz we had Phillipinos in many key admin positions - and they were invaluable in being able to actually get shit done in a system that pulled out almost all the stops to prevent succeeding. Many of my efforts to drag the Saudis (kicking and screaming because I wouldn't cooperate with them in building massive Task Forces of sycophant Saudis, heh - that's what got me canned once) into the Information Age were aided by terrific Flips. I'd trust them any day.
Indonesian police fired warning shots into the air and clashed with supporters of Muslim preacher and terror suspect Abu Bakar Bashir in the eastern city of Makassar on Saturday, injuring dozens. A Reuters photographer saw dozens of police beat unarmed students with bamboo sticks while others fired a volley of shots into the air inside an Islamic university compound. Witnesses said the clashes erupted after some of the estimated 500 student protesters dragged a police officer inside the university compound. "The police got angry and fired some shots into the air before storming inside the compound," a resident who was at the scene told Reuters by telephone. Police were not immediately available for comment.
Still busy thumping knobs on people's heads, are they?
A local journalist, who also declined to be identified, said at least 60 students were hurt, including two who suffered gunshot wounds. Hundreds of supporters of Bashir, who is accused of leading the al Qaeda-linked Jemaah Islamiah network, were outside the prison and many of them clashed with police before he was taken away. Dozens of his supporters were hurt in the ensuing melee.
I know I should be saying "Oh, that's terrible! The poor students!" But somehow, all I can come up with are strong feelings of apathy.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 1:57:45 AM ||
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SUSPECTED Islamic militants killed by security forces at a south Thailand mosque may have been trained abroad by the al-Qaeda linked South-east Asian terror network Jemaah Islamiah (JI), a news report said today. Military intelligence confirmed that the leaders of 32 attackers gunned down on Wednesday at the Krue-sae mosque in southern Pattani province were affiliated with Jemaah Islamiah and likely received weapons and terrorist training abroad, The Bangkok Post newspaper reported. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has denied that recent violence in Thailand's Muslim south is linked to international terrorists.
But that counts for nothing, since he's coming to resemble an ostrich...
The dead included 32 alleged militants killed at the Krue-sae Mosque, where they'd been holed up in a protracted siege during which soldiers fired rocket-propelled grenades and tear gas into the structure, considered one of the region's holiest Muslim sites.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 1:56:00 AM ||
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SUSPECTED Islamic militants killed by security forces at a south Thailand mosque may have been trained abroad by the al-Qaeda linked South-east Asian terror network Jemaah Islamiah (JI), a news report said today.
The fact that these "militants" are now dead doesn't reflect well on the training that they received, that's for sure...
Police have arrested the wife and daughter of Alex Manuputty, an exiled Christian leader seeking self-determination for Indonesia's troubled Maluku archipelago, media reports and police said Sunday. Oly Manuputty and her daughter Christina were arrested Saturday at their home in Ambon, capital of Maluku province. Manuputty and an associate, Samuel Waileruni, were arrested in 2002 and sentenced to three years in jail for encouraging their followers to hoist banned separatist flags. Manuputty fled to the United States last year while waiting for his appeal to be heard by the Supreme Court. Indonesian authorities have banned Manuputty's organization for its campaign for a referendum on self-determination for the province 1,600 miles east of Jakarta. Manuputty claims the Indonesian justice system discriminates against the Christian minority.
Pretty obviously, too...
Last year Muslim leader Jafar Umar Thalib — who commanded the army-backed Laskar Jihad militia that killed hundreds of Christians during the earlier conflict — was freed by a Jakarta court where he was being tried for the killings of 13 villagers. The arrest came as Pope John Paul II urged Indonesian authorities to restore order in Ambon after a week of Muslim-Christian clashes killed at least 37 people.
I'm not sure this was the approach he had in mind...
Posted by: Fred ||
05/02/2004 1:04:55 AM ||
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Fred, I wish I could say that the Indonesian government doesnât let Christians down -- but I canât. Right now, the Indonesian government apparently still doesnât quite grasp that appeasement will only end up destroying the Unity that is so highly prized. Christians are easily targeted as a threat to the Unity message, because their doctrine can be made to seem exclusionary. I donât know that the government realizes (yet) that Christians donât destroy Unity, and that the Christian religion would actually promote Unity. Up till now, the Indonesian government has turned a blind eye toward Islamofascist persecution of Christians, and has tried to appease the Islamofascists. My hope is that the government is beginning to realize that Islamofascism poses the true threat to Unity in Indonesia. The re-arrest of Bashir was encouraging in that regard. Thinking positively, perhaps the police (not military) arrest of this woman and her child was for proactive, protective reasons . . .
EFL Hat tip to LGF
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said in remarks aired on Saturday the creation of a federation based on ethnic divisions in neighboring Iraq would be dangerous, in an apparent reference to a Kurdish autonomy. WHoopie! If heâs starting to whine about it, it must me that we are starting to seriously consider it.
Or he's worried that Iraqi Kurds are going to help their Syrian cousins.
Iraqâs neighbors have frequently voiced alarm that the overthrow of Saddam Hussein could split Iraq in three -- the Kurdish north, the Sunni Muslim center and Shiâite south. Thatâs because it makes sense.
Assad also questioned U.S. accusations that Islamist militant group al Qaeda and members of the former regime in Iraq were behind anti-U.S. violence in Iraq. "Is it reasonable that those hundreds of thousands (resisting occupation)...are all Qaeda? Or sympathizers with the regime of Saddam? If so that means it (the regime) was popular." Ah yes, Saddam, AKA Sadaam, The Beloved Rapist, Torturer and Genocidal Murderer of Iraq
Posted by: B ||
05/02/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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The assumption has been that if Iraq is partitioned, it would be three partitions. But what if it were only two?
Remember the phrase "the reality on the ground", when talking about the Israeli/Palestinian mess?
Well, the reality of Iraq is that the Sunni and the Shia, contentious as they are, either fit together as "Iraq", or the Shia become a de facto, if not de jure, part of Iran. So they either hang together in a secular state, or they hang separately, as a starving poor Sunni enclave and a theocratic Shia dictatorship.
The real separation is between the two of them and the northern Kurds. "Kurdistan", a mythical place, is becoming a much more real possibility, and one that transcends the borders of Iraq.
The Kurdish state is a dream for the Kurds and a nightmare for the Syrians, Turks, and Iranians. It is also oil-rich, so it would not be an impotent backwater in the middle east.
And, while the Sunni and Shia have been futzing about, the Kurds have been preparing their state to be a de facto Kurdistan, whether or not it is part of Iraq. This would mean that either the Kurds living in Syria, Turkey and Iran leave those nations and emigrate to Kurdistan, peacefully, or that they violently try to tear off their part of each of those nations to add to Kurdistan (or a combination of these two things.)
The one critical factor will be if Kurdistan can build itself an army, and quickly. Not one just for self-defense from the rest of Iraq, but one capable of fending off all sorts of attacks from its three neighbors. These uprisings among the Sunni and the Shia should be fair warning to the Kurds: if you want to form a union with contentious people, the advantages had sure as hell better outweigh the hazards.
#2
Agree, Kurdistan will stand on its own regardless of what happens to the rest of Iraq. I can't imagine us pulling out of there anytime soon. Not sure they can fend off all their enemies without our longterm presence. One problem is K-stan is landlocked. We just need a way to keep open a land supply route between them and Kuwait.
As far as the issue of violence, intolerance, and aggression against innocent civilians is concerned, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:
No doubt, aggression against innocent people is a grave sin and a heinous crime, irrespective of the victim's religion, country, or race. No one is permitted to commit such crime, for Allah, Most High, abhors aggression. Unlike Judaism, Islam does not hold a double-standard policy in safeguarding human rights.
That statement in itself is a misrepresentation. I'm not an expert in Judaism, but as far as I know, Judaism makes no distinction among religions when it comes to killing innocents. It was the prominent Saudi cleric Shaikh Saad Al-Buraik who demanded:
Muslim Brothers in Palestine, do not have any mercy neither compassion on the Jews, their blood, their money, their flesh. Their women are yours to take, legitimately. God made them yours. Why don't you enslave their women? Why don't you wage jihad? Why don't you pillage them?
Calls to plunder don't fit very well with the idea of mercy toward the defenseless.
Following, I would like to highlight some relevant Islamic principles based on the Glorious Quran and Sunnah:
1. Islam Forbids Aggression against Innocent People
Islam does not permit aggression against innocent people, whether the aggression is against life, property, or honor, and this ruling applies to everyone, regardless of post, status and prestige. In Islam, as the state's subject is addressed with Islamic teachings, so is the ruler or caliph; he is not allowed to violate people's rights, lives, honor, property, etc.
But who will tell the Caliph when he's done wrong? Lord Acton's dictum applies as well among Muslims as it does among Westerners: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely...
In the Farewell Pilgrimage, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, declared the principle that people's lives, property, and honor are inviolable until the Day of Judgment. This ruling is not restricted to Muslims; rather, it includes non-Muslims who are not fighting Muslims. Even in case of war, Islam does not permit killing those who are not involved in fighting, such as women, children, the aged, and the monks who confine themselves to worship only.
Yet this injunction is honored in the breach on a daily basis. Yesterday we reported on the Muslim governor of Zamfara province in Nigeria's intent to close down Christian churches. Today there was a report on the kidnapping of Afghan children, who're shipped to Saudi Arabia. Browse back a few days and you'll find more examples of cruelty, some of it culturally based, but most of it carried out in the name of Islam.
This shouldn't raise any wonder, for Islam is a religion that prohibits aggression even against animals. Ibn `Umar, may Allah be pleased with them both, quote the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, as saying: "A woman is qualified to enter (Hell) Fire because of a cat which she tied, neither giving it food nor setting it free to eat from the vermin of the earth." (Reported by Al-Bukhari) If such is Islamic ruling concerning aggressive acts against animals, in fortiori, the punishment is bond to be severe when human being happens to be the victim of aggression, torture and terrorism.
2. Individual Responsibility
In Islam, every one is held accountable for his own acts, not others'. No one bears the consequences of others' faults, even his close relatives.
How does that reconcile with honor killings? How does it reconcile with the killing of apostates? Where does Salman Rusdie fit? On what authority did the Ansar al-Islam tough guys dig up the bodies of Naqshabandi saints and reinter them because Sufis were venerating them at their tombs?
This is the ultimate form of justice, clarified in the Glorious Quran, as Allah, Most High, says, "Or hath he not had news of what is in the books of Moses and Abraham who paid his debt: That no laden one shall bear another's load." (An-Najm: 36-38) Therefore, it's very disgusting to see some people - who are Muslims by name - launching aggression against innocent people and taking them as scapegoats for any disagreement they have with the state's authority!! What is the crime of the common people then?! Murder is one of heinous crimes completely abhorred in Islam, to the extent that some Muslim scholars hold the opinion that the repentance of the murderer will not be accepted by Allah, Most High.
Yet murder is committed in the name of Islam on a daily basis. And the murderers are honored among Muslims. The reaction today to the killing of an Israeli mother and her three small children by the Popular Resistance in Gaza hasn't been to hunt down and punish those responsible, by any means.
In this context, we recall the Glorious Quranic verse that reads, "Whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind'" (Al-Maidah: 32)
So which was today's Mom and three kids? Manslaughter? Or corruption on the earth?
3. Ends Do not Justify Means
In Islam, the notion - End justifies the means - has no place at all. It is not allowed to attain good aims through evil means. By the same token, alms collected from unlawful avenues are not Halal (lawful). In this context, the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Surely, Allah is Good and never accepts but what is good." Thereby, in Shariah, with all its sources - the Glorious Quran, the Sunnah, consensus of Muslim jurists - aggression and violation of human rights are completely forbidden.
"E pur se muove."
Besides, it is the duty of the Muslim scholars to do their utmost to guide the perplexed people to the straight and upright path."
That's a part of the problem, isn't it? A thousand scholars generating a thousand fatwas for a thousand days results in anything being allowed and everything being forbidden. You can pick and choose which ones you want. But the fatwas that call for leaving people alone, to make their own mistakes, are the ones that are ignored.
Also, we'd like to quote the following Fatwa issued by Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America:
The Islamic position as regards non-Muslims is that they should recognize Allah's Oneness and Prophet Muhammad as Allah's Final Prophet. They should accept Islam to live happily and successfully in this world and to be saved in the Hereafter. It is Muslims' duty to give them this message clearly, but without any coercion or intolerance. If others accept this message it is good for them, but if they do not accept, Muslims should still treat them with kindness and gentleness and leave the final judgment to Allah.
That doesn't address the injunction not to take Christians and Jews as your friends, does it? In yesterday's Saudi shootout, the perpetrators worked alongside those they murdered. Kindness and gentleness didn't figure while they were dragging a corpse behind their car.
In our enthusiasm for Dawah, we should not be intolerant and aggressive towards others, but in our politeness and civility we should also not give up our mission and message. We should not be intimidated to become quiet and we should not feel shy to tell the truth. We must know that Islam is Allah's way to salvation. Islamic message is unique, authentic and divine. Islam is for the whole world and all people are invited to accept this message. It is our duty to convey this message in the most beautiful and effective manner. We should be the witnesses of Allah to the world by our words and our deeds to all human beings.
Christians assume their message is unique, authentic and divine, as well. All along Islam's bloody border we're presented with the picture of intolerance, with arrogance, and with bloodshed, from Nigeria's riots and murders to the mindless carnage that's Mindanao's lot. Al-Muhajiroun wants to impose Islam on Britain. Deep within the geographical boundaries of Islam we're presented with the same picture of arrogance and intolerance. There are no Christian churches in Saudi Arabia. In Pakistan, which is almost all Muslim, Sunnis kill not only Christians, but also Shiites. The Pandits have been chased out of their ancestral Kashmir homeland.
Sorry. I simply can't buy Islam as a religion of peace and justice. I've been watching the actions, not listening to the words.
Posted by: Gentle ||
05/02/2004 10:15:03 AM ||
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I simply can't buy Islam as a religion of peace and justice. I've been watching the actions, not listening to the words.
You and thousands of others. Get in line and take a number.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 12:00 Comments ||
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Barbara, ....ROFL!!! Bless you. This was too funny!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 12:02 Comments ||
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#3
Q. 9: 123
Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness (qilzat) in you.
Posted by: ed ||
05/02/2004 12:06 Comments ||
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#4
[Troll droppings deleted]
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
05/02/2004 12:09 Comments ||
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#5
Sorry, but who on earth is the guy commenting on the article.
I'd like to know please
#6
that'd be Fred - the owner of the site - abuse him and his comments with extreme care and better propaganda than you've done in the past, pinhead
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 12:27 Comments ||
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#7
Ah, but see, the key is, what the definition of 'innocent' is according to Islam.
The plain fact is, 'innocent' has a different definition in Islamic ideology that what most non-Muslims consider an innocent.
Muhammed himself established the definition of what an innocent is, and is not, when he had a woman murdered for writing poems against him and Islam. He did not consider her innocent, did he?
Those who damage Islam, in anyway, are no longer innocents, and that includes apostates.
So to be an 'innocent' means you accept submission, be it converting to Islam or being a dhimmi when your time comes, and to that I say NEVER!
#8
"The reaction today to the killing of an Israeli mother and her three small children by the Popular Resistance in Gaza hasn't been to hunt down and punish those.."
I believe it was a pregnant mother and 4 children, but who's counting.
Maybe only "Get in line and take a number."
There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, that took place at his behest. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, by Bin Sa'd, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children, 'Asma' Bint Marwan, wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night, which was carried out while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guilaume's translation "The Life of Muhammad") page 675, 676).
#12
Gentle, yes I know what a dhimmi is. I'm glad you asked.
Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the legal superstructure that global jihadists are laboring to restore everywhere in the Islamic world, and wish ultimately to impose on the entire human race.
If dhimmis complained about their inferior status, institutionalized humiliation, or poverty, their masters voided their contract and regarded them as enemies of Islam, fair game as objects of violence. Consequently, dhimmis were generally cowed into silence and worse. It was almost unheard-of to find dhimmis speaking out against their oppressors; to do so would have been suicide. For centuries dhimmi communities in the Islamic world learned to live in peace with their Muslim overlords by acquiescing to their subservience.
Here is the text of the Pact of Umar, which spelled out exactly the "tolerance" granted (note the term "granted") to Christians (and Jews) in Muslim lands, and was the guideline for dhimmitude, the "pact of protection" Jews and Christians were bound to live under, or face death.
http://www.domini.org/openbook/umar.htm
Though in many Islamic countries today the status of non-Muslims is not quite as dim as it was in the past, that is due to the adoption of Western codes of law including equal citizenship for those of all religions. And even so, the position of non-Muslims is often quite unhappy, such as with the Copts in Egypt, who are discriminated against and treated poorly by the government, the Armenians who were massacred by the Turks during WWI, the Jews run out of Arab countries after the foundation of Israel, many with nothing but the clothes on their backs, the precarious situation of Christians in Lebanon, the special rights given to the 52% of Malaysians who are Muslim and denied to non-Muslims, and so on. Many Muslim countries have no problem with religious minorities because said minorities no longer exist--Turkey is now 99% Muslim, Pakistan is close to it, North Africa has hardly any Jews or Christians left, and so on.
#13
This dicussion is getting silly again, both gentle and antiwar are Left-wingers trying to disrupt the debate here, same thing is going on over at the Commandpost.
Posted by: Evert V. in NL ||
05/02/2004 13:33 Comments ||
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#14
The first Dhimmis and jizya:
In Keibar he (Muhammed) exacted 50% of all the crops produced by the Jews from their own lands that he confiscated to be given to him.
Posted by: ed ||
05/02/2004 13:40 Comments ||
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#15
Oh and Gentle, what about the sex slaves Muhammed made legal to himself during Jihad, were they classified as innocents or no?
And since you will probably deny this happened as well, I'll go ahead and resource this now.
Quran 33:50
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers;and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
#16
Dhimmi:
A person (non-muslim) is under the protection of a mulim government.
If he is well and has land he pays a certain price every year. Never more than a small % of what he makes.
That money goes to defending the country.
If a person is unable to paybecause of poverty, he will be given money from the Zakat to spend on himself and his family.
The people are to be treated as equels to muslims, but they may not fight or marry muslim girls.
That is what Dhimmi means.
#17
There were no sex slaves dear. The prophet married those who had no one to take care of them. It was done by their consent.
Most of these were widows & divorced women.
Only one was a virgin.
AND yes. There were women who said NO. and later got married to someone else.
Posted by: ed ||
05/02/2004 13:55 Comments ||
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#19
Dhimmi:
A person (non-muslim) is under the protection of a mulim government.
If he is well and has land he pays a certain price every year. Never more than a small % of what he makes.
That money goes to defending the country.
If a person is unable to paybecause of poverty, he will be given money from the Zakat to spend on himself and his family.
The people are to be treated as equels to muslims, but they may not fight or marry muslim girls.
That is what Dhimmi means.
#21
Gentle (NOT): Re dhimmitude - WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 14:00 Comments ||
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#22
From the pact of dhimmitude:
"We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, churches, convents, or monks' cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims. We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days. We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor hide him from the Muslims. We shall not teach the Qur'an to our children. We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it. We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit. We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas [i.e. names starting with Abu ("father") or Umm ("mother")]. We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our persons. We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals. We shall not sell fermented drinks. We shall clip the fronts of our heads. We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists. We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims. We shall not take slaves who have been allotted to Muslims. We shall not build houses taller than the houses of the Muslims. (When I brought the letter to Umar, may God be pleased with him, he added, "We shall not strike a Muslim.") We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct. If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition. Umar ibn al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those which they have undertaken. They are: "They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims," and "Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact.""
#23
Barbara, TS vice girl, guys, doncha love it?
That paragon of modern progress and religious and intellectual freedom (UAE) has blocked sites on the web that tell the truth about Islam!
Fancy!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 14:03 Comments ||
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#24
This is *------*
Clip the fronts of our heads?!
Not show lights?!
Always dress the same way?!
Rise from our seats when they wish to sit?!
Not build houses taller than the houses of the Muslims?!
#25
This is *------*
Clip the fronts of our heads?!
Not show lights?!
Always dress the same way?!
Rise from our seats when they wish to sit?!
Not build houses taller than the houses of the Muslims?!
#29
Gentle...this is the 'Pact of Umar', it is commonly attributed to the second caliph, Umar ibn al-Khattab (reigned 634-644).
Do a search and see if you can find a site that isnt blocked.
Oh and Gentle, if they werent slaves, the what exactly does "your right hand possesses out of the prisoners or war" mean?
That site is written by an ex-Muslim female and the article documents historical sex slavery with Quran and Shura verses that justify it. Go to google.com and search for "Islam Sudan sex slavery" or other such terms.
Some verses from the article:
âIt is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is Ever a Watcher over all things.â Surah 33:52
And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts from illegal sexual acts). Except with their wives and the (women slaves and captives) whom their right hand possess,--for (then) they are not to be blamed.â Surah 70:29-30
âExcept from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess,--for then, they are free from blame;â Surah 23:6
âAlso (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for youâ¦..â Surah 4:24
Posted by: ed ||
05/02/2004 14:22 Comments ||
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#31
There were no sex slaves dear. The prophet married those who had no one to take care of them. It was done by their consent.
Ibn Sa'd's "Tabaqat", gives a clear description of Muhammad having "relations" with at least one of his slave girls. Muhammad had sexual relations with Mariyah, his Coptic slave. Mariyah and her sister, Sirin were slaves given as gifts to Muhammad. Muhammad gave Sirin to Hasan Thabit, the poet. Ibn Sa'd says that Muhammad "liked Mariyah, who was of white complexion, with curly hair and pretty." [Taken from Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes), p151].
Ibn Sa'd also writes that Mariyah bore Muhammad a son named Ibrahim. He died 18 months later. Sa'd writes: "If he had lived, no maternal uncle of his would have remained in bondage", p164. This shows that there were other Coptic slaves owned by the Muslims.
Mohammad had two concubines Mariyah the Coptic, and Raihanah bint Zaid An-Nadriyah or Quraziyah.
Posted by: ed ||
05/02/2004 14:40 Comments ||
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#32
Are you a Muslim, Gentle? I'm curious where you got your instruction. No, I'm not being sarcastic--I'm interested in finding out where peaceful Muslims are these days. I hear a lot from the jihadists, and a lot of "we hate terrorism but" from the CAIR-types and foreign dictators; but newspaper bias (if it bleeds it leads) means I hear very little from peaceful sorts. I can't tell whether that means they can't be heard or whether there aren't many of them.
Posted by: James ||
05/02/2004 15:14 Comments ||
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#33
LOL,you folks sure took her to school.
Come-on,Gentle.Lets see you refute these accusations using chapter and verse from your own Religion and history.
LOL,LOL
#34
Wow - the master race is hopped up on denial and ignorance pills today
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 16:22 Comments ||
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#35
Gentle, if you're going to post on Islam don't you think you should know more about it than the non-muslims you're preaching to?
Posted by: Scott ||
05/02/2004 16:46 Comments ||
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#36
Hats off to all! (Except
Gentle Mental, and Antiwar AntiSense, of course)
From the original post, today on Rantburg: that started this excellent educational forum on the evils of Islamofacism, I reitereate my submission (slightly edited for length):
Gentle and Antiwar: No one will take you seriously unless you OPENLY CONDEMN what should be condemned by your false cult-religion, such as the above and:
Lest we forget: Courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"â¢.
The moslem lady in the following photos was treated very "gently," courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"⢠as described in Thousands of Women Killed for Family "Honor" Her husband cut out her tongue, gouged out her eyes and cut off her nose and ears. No Islamic Fundamentalism here, folks.
Zahida before her husband's kind "makeover."
Or how about this "kindness and correction" of these women by religious police. (I dunno, they all look kind of "Moslem" to me.) These photos are caught from a video film that has been filmed by RAWA on August 26, 2001 in Kabul using a hidden camera. It shows two Taliban from department of Amro bil mahroof (Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, Taliban religious police) beating a woman in public because she has dared to remove her burqa in public.
If that's not enough, we can always review the unprovoked killing of Christians in Indonesia, just because they are Christians, courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"â¢. This little 9 month-old baby girl was murdered by Islamic Fundamentalists (i.e. Islamofascists) along with burning down the oldest church in the region.
And while you're at it, Gentle and Antiwar, please also comment on why your Islamofascist mullahs tell your young men that they will be given 72 virgins to f-ck for all eternity, if they commit suicide and blow innocent people to bits, and why, if a muslim woman does the same thing, she gets to be "married" to one man in Islam-ick "paradise." And I still want to know where all those "paradise" virgins and marriageable young men come from. Are they created especially for the purpose by (spit) your god, the Islamic "Allah," god of war? Are the virgins, and husbands-in-reserve, automatons? Or do they enter into these "sex-for-suicide-" jihad pacts willingly?
#39
Just a little assist here. Ex-lib writes "If that's not enough, we can always review the unprovoked killing of Christians in Indonesia, just because they are Christians, courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"â¢. This little 9 month-old baby girl was murdered by Islamic Fundamentalists (i.e. Islamofascists) along with burning down the oldest church in the region." I think the server to the pictures on that site may be overloaded. Hereâs an alternate picture of the church from a different server:
And you can see Googleâs cached page with the sad picture of the murdered baby here.
#40
Nevermind, I think it is just a scripting error. Try this: If that's not enough, we can always review the unprovoked killing of Christians in Indonesia, just because they are Christians, courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"â¢. This little 9 month-old baby girl was murdered by Islamic Fundamentalists (i.e. Islamofascists) along with burning down the oldest church in the region.
#42
Summing up, I remind our participants that Gentle posted an article by a Moslem scholar who asserted these main arguments:
* Islam Forbids Aggression against Innocent People
* In Islam, every one is held accountable for his own acts, not others
* Ends Do not Justify Means
I think those are arguments that we should all support. Gentle did a good deed by posting the article.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/02/2004 21:27 Comments ||
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#43
Gentle and its allies can post the truth or whatever views they want. The truth is the truth.
The fact remains: bin Laden, and literally thousands of Muslim leaders worldwide have tainted Islam with a view of human behavior which is barbaric and absolutely unacceptable in any civilization I want defended.
Equally, leftists worldwide who support Islam and its leaders' right to press for this version of Islam have helped those leaders tain this religion, perhaps for centuries to come, maybe even for all time.
As a Christian and in view of 911, there is nothing either of those two groups can say that will ever change my view of Islam as a murder/enslavement cult.
BTW: Gentle and antiwar probably stopped posting to restoke the crack pipe.
#44
Mike - It is lovely that Gentle and the scholar whose work she posts actually believe in Islam as a religion of peace. However, when she asserts that these beliefs are universal, or even particularly widespread, in Islam she engages in either deceit or delusion. The form of denial she asks us to join her in has already cost far too many lives, and has to be slapped down like the dangerous nonesense it is.
#45
Since Islam is a religion of peace, Gentle will undoubtedly have no problem with GI's blowing away all of those apostates who claim to be Muslims but are in the business of killing Iraqis, GI's and American civilians, thereby blaspheming the name of Allah. In fact, Muslims should be cheering our GI's on in their slaughter of these terror-loving apostates.
#46
Mike, don't be fooled. A little on the author of this article, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi:
Al-Qaradawi says some countries will fall to the armed Islamic jihad, but in others, such as the United States, victory will come through Da'awa - the teaching of Islam to non-Muslims - which will trigger Westerners to convert to Islam ``in droves.''
``We will conquer Europe, we will conquer America! Not through (the) sword, but through Da'awa,'' al-Qaradawi told members of the Muslim Arab Youth Association at the group's 1995 convention in Toledo, Ohio.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/001104.php
Also the Sheikh approves of suicide bombings in Israel.
He says when speaking of 9/11:
"I have been asked several questions on TV programs and on public lectures about the martyr operations outside the Palestinian territories, and I always answer that I do agree with those who do not allow such martyr operations to be carried out outside the Palestinian territories.
"Instead we should concentrate on facing the occupying enemy directly. It is not permissible, as far as Islam is concerned, to shift confrontation outside the Palestinian territories. This is backed by the Qur'anic verse that reads: "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loves not, aggressors," the renowned Muslim scholar concluded."
http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article25.shtml
Also see:
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/2002_11_13.htm
Here is some more preaching from the good Sheikh
"In conclusion, the imam prays to God: "O God, support our mujahidin brothers on the land of Palestine. O God, strengthen them, unite them, and help them score a victory. O God, turn against the arrogant, usurper, unjust, aggressor Jews and their wicked Crusader allies."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/001150.php
How about what the Sheikh thinks of the jihad in Chechnya:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/2004/04/001682print.html
#47
Mike -- pull your head out and look around. Muslims talk about "peace" to keep people like you from seeing what they're really doing. Watch their actions, not their words.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
05/02/2004 23:51 Comments ||
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#48
Since Islam is a religion of peace, Gentle will undoubtedly have no problem with GI's blowing away all of those apostates who claim to be Muslims but are in the business of killing Iraqis, GI's and American civilians, thereby blaspheming the name of Allah. In fact, Muslims should be cheering our GI's on in their slaughter of these terror-loving apostates.
Bravo, Zhang Fei!
You are one of the first to suggest what I have been considering during my last week of silence. Now that moderate Moslems are being threatened too, maybe it is time to assist all Islam in the vital and onerous task of ridding them of those apostates who would desecrate their sacred mosques.
If their "gentle" religion continues to be blasphemed in such vile fashion, it is our solemn duty as protectors of secular democratic society to overcome such an affront to one of our globe's preciously peaceful faiths.
Reject all terrorism and maybe we won't have to protect you from yourselves.
#49
So, who you voting for in November Zipster--Nader, who's going to pull the troops out of Iraq is he's Prez or John F'in Ketchup, who will crawl on his knees to the UN to apologize for us doing our duty as "protectors of secular democratic society" under President "Shrub" (what you, Molly Evil and all the screeching yard monkeys at Smirking Chimp and DUH.com call our Commander in Chief)?
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 23:56 Comments ||
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#50
Re: #46 (TS(vice girl))
Your response is fair because you are holding Al-Qaradawi responsible for his own words and actions. Many participants in this thread respond to his article by holding him responsible for words and actions that he implicitly condemns in his article.
For example, he writes, "I always answer that I do agree with those who do not allow such martyr operations to be carried out outside the Palestinian territories," but then a photograph of the burning World Trade Center is posted, as if he has somehow justified this attack in New York.
If you read his article, you will see that he criticises Moslem excesses. He writes: "itâs very disgusting to see some people â who are Muslims by name â launching aggression against innocent people and taking them as scapegoats for any disagreement they have .... "
Really, this article here should not prompt the reflexive rage that characterized this thread.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
05/03/2004 5:50 Comments ||
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#51
[Troll droppings deleted]
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
05/02/2004 12:09 Comments ||
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#52
There were no sex slaves dear. The prophet married those who had no one to take care of them. It was done by their consent.
Most of these were widows & divorced women.
Only one was a virgin.
AND yes. There were women who said NO. and later got married to someone else.
#53
There were no sex slaves dear. The prophet married those who had no one to take care of them. It was done by their consent.
Most of these were widows & divorced women.
Only one was a virgin.
AND yes. There were women who said NO. and later got married to someone else.
EFL
If the West wants to win the global war against terrorism, major changes are needed in public thinking as well as international law and intelligence, a former Israeli spy chief said. Speaking at a conference on terrorism countermeasures at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem this week, Efraim Halevy, former head of the Mossad (secret service), said the war against terrorism is a world war like no other. There is no specific battlefield, the enemy is not always clearly defined and the two sides are using completely different weapons systems and different concepts, he said. And, he added, this is the first time that the public has been responsible for its own defense in a war.
I'm not sure I'd go that far. Maybe it's the first time in a couple hundred years. In pre-Geneva Convention days the populace was often both the target and the prize...
Halevy said that nearly three years into the global war, there have been far fewer casualties than there were during the first two World Wars -- and yet the fallout has been far greater. "I think this is the first war in which private enterprise is going to be -- and is already -- a major element in this struggle," Halevy said. Halevy said this is the first war in which the state has been unable to "provide a full kit of protection" for the individual, and the individual will not be able to depend on his countryâs weapons systems to defend him. The citizen must protect his own life, factory or business.
That's because wars are fought by soldiers. Terrorists aren't soldiers. They're bully boys.
Israel, which has been waging a war against Palestinian terrorism for decades, has been at the cutting edge of developing counterterrorism theory and measures. And while the other side may not be using very sophisticated weapons - such as a plane flying into a building - those fighting against terror will have to develop more and more sophisticated means to confront such tactics.
Except that I'd not call flying a plane into a building a sophisticated weapon. Sophisticated planning, yes; a sophisticated weapon, no.
Halevy also said that global cooperation was not a substitute for individual countries doing their utmost to fight terrorism. But Cary Gleicher, a legal attache at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv and the FBIâs representative to Israel, called global cooperation the "ultimate weapon" against global crime and terrorism.
I think they might be using two different definitions of global cooperation...
After 9/11, the FBI realized it had "a lot to learn" from foreign services, Gleicher said at the same conference. Last year nine Israelis from the army, the internal intelligence services and police came to FBI headquarters to train agents there on countering suicide terrorism. "It was the first time in FBI history that a foreign government came into our building to train our people," Gleicher said.
I'd have been ashamed to make that admission. I can think of several countries off the top of my head who'd have something to teach us in the antiterrorism field.
According to Halevy, winning the war against terrorism and ensuring the survival of Western society will require a major effort to educate the public about whatâs at stake. The enemy doesnât want to conquer new territory, he said. "They want to bring down society, they want to bring down the economy, they want to effect an international change." Halevy said itâs important to "school the world in the idea of preemption," without which "we stand no chance of success."
And as we've seen, that's a tough sell.
Israel has come under strong international condemnation for its version of preemption - the targeted killings of terrorist leaders -- although Washington has been quietly supportive of such measures.
I don't put those into the category of preemption. That's decapitating the enemy command structure, which has been a legitimate objective in warfare for thousands of years. Both Sheikh Yassin and Rantissi departed this vale of tears in the immediate aftermath of terror attacks. Preemption would have called for bumping them off before the attacks occurred. The IDF's periodic intel-driven roundups are what I'd define as preemption.
Two other areas where there need to be major shifts, he said, are in intelligence and international law. Without giving details, Halevy said called for a "new approach" to intelligence while international law would have to rise to meet the challenges before it for the "survival of society" before other "worse solutions" are found.
I'm not a great believer in international law. The usual suspects seem to have no trouble at all reading whatever they want into it. I'd be curious to see what "new approaches" there are to intel, though. Most things are the way they are now for a reason, to include compartmentalization of intel and the spheres of operation of the intel agencies. We don't really want the CIA operating domestically; there are too many unintended and unpleasant side effects. If he's talking about joint intel ops and information sharing, there's always room for more and better there.
Halevy said itâs human nature for people to resist change unless they are confronted by a traumatic event.
And even then, they tend to revert to old habits as soon as the adrenaline's receded.
"The traumatic events can work both ways. They can either galvanize society the way the United States sprung to the challenge after 9/11 or they can react differently — the way the Spanish population acted after the attacks on trains," he said. "We have to realize that this is a challenge that none of us can afford to lose."
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 1:37:51 AM ||
Comments ||
Link ||
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#1
Someone will have to spell this out for me...does this mean arming ourselves for an out and out right here? Does this have something to do with the 8,000 assualt weapons confiscated in Italy that were headed here?
Posted by: jawa ||
05/02/2004 11:30 Comments ||
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#2
Yes. It means we need to arm ourselves. My suspicion is that the 8000 AK-47's were bound for the Islamic elements that are already here.
There is a titanic battle coming soon to our cities. I fear that the majority of the sheeple will have no stomach for it.
-AR
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
05/02/2004 12:35 Comments ||
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#3
#1
No, I don't think in terms of walking around armed to the teeth.
I believe he means that the population has be more aware and on the lookout for things out of the ordinary in their daily life, and also much more vociferous in their demands for actions from those agencies responsible for security to counter the possiblity of terrorist acts.
The population is more interested in relative privacy than a good intel system to get on top of potential terrorists.
The time has come when you do not know if the person actually is who he claims to be.
The population should be hysterical at the revelation that Mineta was fining airlines for:
As Mineta explained: "We must protect the civil rights of airline passengers."
"Arab hijackers now eligible for pre-boarding"
The amount of disinformation is also troubling when the media's agenda uses it to confuse the public's awareness of a threat.
Ted Koppel would not have had so many names to read had the PC confusion generated by "undefining" the enemy. There were lessons to be learned from the Israeli front which were squandered by kow towing to PC Euro politics and permitting the arabists in Foggy Bottom to dictate things
" it's not Rumsfeld's occupation; it's Colin Powell's and George Tenet's."
#4
A lot of people are short on current history.
Tenet was sent by Clinton at the Taba talks to see to a security arangement for the PA to control "things", then again when GWB tried to get the PC roadmap going at Aqaba. The result was a "hudna" and many deaths, including 3 American diplomats in Gaza (still not resolved).
This is what Americans should also be screaming about as it shows a dismal appraisal of the reality in the region and American defensive intel.
#5
Lets,betwen my brother and I:
2,9m Rugers
2,Ruger single-six,with interchangable cylynders
1,10-22 Ruger,with 3 25 round mags
1,Ruger in .223cal,with 4x6 variable scope
1,Marlin.22cal,wth 4 power scope
1,Ruger Mark 1
1,Ruger Mark2,with 12"barrel
1,Ruger .44cal,with 11"barrel
1,20 gauge pump
"Can Do"(U.S.Navy SeaBees)
Gotcha covered,any time you Jihadist buttwipes want to play just come on over.
#6
The 8000 AKs were inventory stockup (Century Arms?) in anticipation of the Assault Weapon's Ban expiration. With over 200 Million guns in this country, 8000 more don't mean Jack.
Posted by: ed ||
05/02/2004 16:42 Comments ||
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#7
Jawa - whadda ya mean, arming ourselves? You're not already?
Stock up on ammo, too.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 19:19 Comments ||
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It was an extraordinary coup: in the late 1990's, federal prosecutors sat down to interview their first major informer against Al Qaeda â Jamal Ahmed al-Fadl, a former payroll manager for Osama bin Laden who would become the government's chief witness in its first trial of Qaeda operatives.
But it was followed by an extraordinary blunder: for two years, even as the authorities cloaked Mr. Fadl in the secrecy of the federal witness-protection program, keeping him in undisclosed locations and communicating with him in videoconferences through a special telephone hookup, many hours of those conversations were recorded on videotape.
The taping, which the government says was done by someone in the federal marshals service and discovered in 2002 by prosecutors and the F.B.I., violated the established practice and the very mission of witness protection. Such recordings are not made because they could reveal deadly clues about the identity and location of the informer â particularly one as high risk as Mr. Fadl, who is unharmed but still hidden and may be called again to testify in terrorism trials.
Now the videotapes, 28 hours of them, are complicating the government's case against the four men Mr. Fadl helped convict of conspiring in the 1998 bombings of two United States Embassies in East Africa and other terrorist acts.
After prosecutors learned of the tapes' existence, months after the trial, they gave the defense 647 pages of transcripts under a strict court order of confidentiality. Defense lawyers are now requesting new trials, contending in papers unsealed this week in Federal District Court in Manhattan that the tapes should have been disclosed earlier and would have helped them discredit Mr. Fadl, an assertion that prosecutors reject.
But whoever wins that legal tussle, the transcripts â excerpted in the defense papers â offer an unusually intimate look at the government's complex and often delicate dealings with its primary witness in the war on terrorism before 9/11.
Although the government usually provides the defense with summaries of its conversations with witnesses, it is loath to share verbatim accounts because the fine details of those dealings can allow defense lawyers, as these transcripts have, to suggest that a witness has tailored testimony to win favorable treatment.
The excerpts confirm how valuable the government has found Mr. Fadl, a native of Sudan in his early 40's who turned himself in to American authorities. They reveal that the government used him to lure a relative who was also active in Al Qaeda, an act that Mr. Fadl dryly notes at one point will cause a "big problem" in the family.
As officials press him for help, he presses back, asking them to fix his car, buy him a house and give him money, for himself and for his parents back in Sudan. The authorities, it becomes clear, have taken responsibility not just for a witness, but for an entire family. Indeed, testimony in the bombings trial showed that the government had spent almost $1 million on Mr. Fadl and his relatives.
And the authorities have the ticklish task of handling the informer in whom they have invested so much time and effort. Throughout the excerpts, they can be glimpsed trying to reassure Mr. Fadl, massage his ego to make him a confident witness, and quell his fears that he will be used and then tossed aside â like a witness to a routine car accident, he says.
As time goes on, though, Mr. Fadl needs less persuading, apparently thrilled by the chance to play a historic role and atone for his own history.
"I love to do this," he says. "I'm, like, addicted now."
As someone who worked in Mr. bin Laden's office and traveled for him, Mr. Fadl made an especially well-connected witness against Al Qaeda.
One of its first members when he swore allegiance around 1990, he held a position of confidence with Mr. bin Laden that included helping to manage his payroll, testimony has shown. Mr. Fadl had access to the files of each of the group's members, knew their aliases and was privy to details of Mr. bin Laden's global financial network. He developed an intimate knowledge of Mr. bin Laden's businesses, which prosecutors said were fronts for terrorism, and was able to describe how Al Qaeda used false passports, smuggled arms and tried to buy components for nuclear weapons.
In 1996, Mr. Fadl fled the organization after he embezzled about $110,000 from one of Mr. bin Laden's companies, eventually walking into an American embassy in Africa and offering his services in the fight against Al Qaeda. He pleaded guilty to conspiracy charges in a closed 1997 proceeding, and until he testified, prosecutors referred to him in court papers only as CS-1, for confidential source.
In February 2001, wearing a white skullcap, an open-neck shirt and blue jeans, Mr. Fadl identified himself in a Manhattan courtroom and began several days of riveting testimony against four men charged with conspiring in the embassy attacks, in which more than 200 people died, and in the killings of 18 American soldiers in Somalia in 1993.
But despite the secrecy and heavy security surrounding him â the court even forbade courtroom artists to sketch Mr. Fadl's face â for two years starting in January 2000, videotapes were capturing his teleconferences with prosecutors and F.B.I. agents, the government says.
The government has not said who made the videotapes, or why. But the director of the witness protection program, Stephen J. T'Kach, says in an affidavit that an investigation determined that they resulted from "an unauthorized, independent decision by one or two employees of the marshals service." He said the service, which runs the witness protection program, had found that no other meeting with a witness had ever been videotaped.
"In fact, the recordings in this case were so unusual," the government says in its court papers, "that the director of the witness security program himself was not even aware that the meetings had been videotaped" until prosecutors told him.
Witness protection is a tricky enough business when the witness is a mobster or jailhouse informer. But when he is a foreigner with family, friends and enemies scattered around the world, the process can become enormously complicated, as the transcripts show.
It is "a small miracle," an official remarks at one point, that the government was able to get Mr. Fadl's wife and children out of Sudan, which has had tense relations with the United States and has been listed by the State Department as a sponsor of terrorism. (Government officials are generally not identified in the transcripts, but in most cases they appear to be F.B.I. agents or prosecutors.)
But after the government has apparently gone to great lengths to move the family, there are concerns that Mrs. Fadl may seek to return home. An official reassures Mr. Fadl that if his wife ever chose to leave him and return home, "the F.B.I. would probably talk her out of it."
Mr. Fadl complains at another point that his wife is upset because, she says, an F.B.I. agent named Kevin has threatened dire consequences if she decides to go home. Mr. Fadl, in halting English, says the agent told her that if she returned to Sudan: "I take your husband to jail. And I going to take you to immigration jail, and I going to give the kids to American family."
A government official tries to mollify Mr. Fadl, telling him it was "a complete misunderstanding."
"No one would get picked up and thrown in immigration jail. The kids aren't going to be taken away and given to American families. That is not, not going to happen."
Family worries arise again as officials use Mr. Fadl to lure another Qaeda operative in Sudan, Mohamed Suleiman al Nalfi, into American custody. Mr. Fadl and Mr. Nalfi are relatives by marriage, and Mr. Fadl fears that Mr. Nalfi might call family members from prison and blame him, saying: " `Jamal, he send me the tickets. Jamal, he do all that to me.' And that's going to be big problem between his family and my family," Mr. Fadl says.
Mr. Fadl eventually telephoned Mr. Nalfi and, in several conversations, persuaded him to go to Kenya, where he ended up in the hands of American agents, the defense papers say. In the end, though, Mr. Fadl had little reason to worry about his relative's reaction. Mr. Nalfi pleaded guilty, and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. In a letter to the judge, he renounced his actions against the United States and said he had been treated fairly.
"May God keep and bless the American justice system and the courts," Mr. Nalfi wrote.
Although Mr. Fadl, too, praises the Americans and their cause, defense lawyers have painted him as a greedy opportunist. And in the excerpts the defense presents, money is a frequent topic.
At one point, Mr. Fadl asks for money, and he wants it directly from the officials he is working with. "I'm talking about you giving me a gift from you," he says. In another conversation, an interpreter relays to the government Mr. Fadl's view that he should be compensated with more money "than what you could imagine, because of what he's done."
Mr. Fadl also asks, "Is there any possibility for you to help me and my family getting house, even a small house?" He asks that money be sent to Sudan for his mother, and for medical treatment for his father. Ultimately, the American government provided the father $3,000, according to the defense papers submitted by the lawyers Joshua L. Dratel and Sam A. Schmidt.
In its response to that filing, the United States attorney's office in Manhattan says the excerpts cited by the defense are piecemeal, sometimes taken out of context and not legally significant. Yet it also appears that the government does not begrudge Mr. Fadl's appeals for money, because he has taken such risks and his cooperation has been of tremendous value.
"You don't need to thank us," an official says, "because we're all in this together."
Mr. Fadl is also told: "We need the witnesses to know that when they're done testifying that we take care of what their needs are."
At times, Mr. Fadl seems sheepish about his requests. "Any time I ask about money, I feel bad," he says. "I feel like this is something great my life, something correct my history."
"I love to help you, to help the case," he adds.
Still, the government treads carefully when discussing whether he will go to prison â trying to encourage him, but acknowledging that the decision rests with the judge.
"You may go to jail, O.K.? Because of, you know, because of what we do in court, and stuff like that," one official says. "Which we know is not going to happen. But there's always that chance. But it's not going to happen."
Mr. Fadl is still awaiting sentencing, and it remains unclear where he lives or what his future holds. But the government has made its commitment clear.
"We won't forget you when the case is over, O.K.?" an official says. "So, Jamal, if there's any witness in the world we will not forget, it will be you."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 1:49:42 AM ||
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40 Pakistan nationals detained in Guantanamo Bay in the backdrop of September 11, 2001 events, are expected to be released shortly.
âA delegation of the Interior Ministry headed by Brig Javed Cheema, interviewed these prisoners last year and expected release of the Pakistanis from the Camp X-ray is the net result of the talks with the US authorities,â Muhammad Sadiq, Deputy Chief of Pakistani Mission in Washington told to NNI here Sunday.
These Pakistanis are innocent and have no linkage with al-Qaeda of Osama bin Laden or former rulers in Afghanistan, Taliban and the American authorities are very much convinced of their innocence.
Muhammad Sadiq, further revealed to NNI that within next two weeks the announcement in this connection will be made that would also be carrying the exact number of the Pakistanis to be release from the Cuba. âThe process of confirmation of such Pakistanis is very important but time gaining as we donât want to bring home some one with nationality other than Pakistan,â Sadiq said.
Earlier some Pakistaniâs detained in Cuba were already released âbut the number was insignificant.
At present talks for the release of these Pakistanis are taking place in Washington as Brig Cheem who is head of crises management cell of the interior ministry. The fate of over 100 Pakistanis hanging in the bellows as the process of their identification and procedure of the US authorities is quite hard.
The Pakistani delegations visits United States every year to talk on the subject, but nobody except one ever traveled to Cuba to investigate directly with the prisoners.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 1:23:49 AM ||
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EFL - much more at link
Four Palestinian militants were killed in an Israel Defense Forces strike in the West Bank city of Nablus on Sunday night, hours after gunmen killed a Jewish settler and her four children in the Gaza Strip, medics said. Earlier on Sunday, an Israeli helicopter launched three missiles at a 14-story Palestinian building in the middle of Gaza City. Two Palestinians suffered light injuries in the strike, on a building that housed the offices for a radio station affiliated with Hamas and also offices of the Palestinian newspaper Al Ayyam and Al Quds. Palestinian sources told Haaretz that a Hamas official was being interviewed at the station when the missiles hit. The Israel Defense Forces said that the army attacked a Hamas radio station that had been broadcasting incitement. Army Radio quoted a Hamas official as saying in response that "[Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon cannot harm out leaders, so he chooses instead [to strike at] institutions and media outlets." I thought I just heard on the news that Israel killed the two leaders of Al Aqusa.
Posted by: b ||
05/02/2004 4:36:04 PM ||
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#1
Sharon cannot harm our leaders
Hahahahahaha!
Yeah, Yassin and Rantisi went poof all by themselves. As will the next 10 "leaders."
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 18:34 Comments ||
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#2
Sharon cannot harm out leaders ...
Admittedly, it's pretty difficult to harm anything that requires a magnifying glass to locate.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 17:29 ||
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#1
Added to other recent revelations, such as Jackoff Joe Wilson's recent admission that Nigerian yellowcake was, indeed, on the table if Saddam wanted to pony the cash, we have smoking guns popping up all over the place. I like how this article puts the Zarqawi tape that they were forced under torture to say they planned to use chemical weapons in full view as a desperate lie.
Soon, Zarqawi will get his due. I hope they start by sealing his rectum with a hot poker.
JPost Reg Reqâd
The IDF confirmed Sunday the targeting of senior Tanzim fugitives in Nablus who were responsible for numerous terror attacks and the killing of Israeli civilians and soldiers. thought you were safe from Gaza blowback, huh?
A statement issued by the IDF spokesman explained that the army was forced to take the steps to launch the attack because all attempts to arrest the fugitives and thwart attacks they planned to carry out failed. better to save the cell space for criminals
Four members of the Fatah Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades were killed when missiles fired from an IAF helicopter slammed into their vehicle that was traveling near the local hospital in Nablus on Sunday night. One of the four was identified as Nader Abu Leil, a wanted fugitive sought after by the Shin Bet and security forces for some time due to his involvment in planning and launching suicide bomb and shooting attacks against Israeli citizens. Hashem Abu Hamdan was the second Palestinian killed in the attack. The IDF Spokesman refused to comment on the incident. "I can say no more"
The two others killed in the explosion were also Al Aksa members. Witnesses said an F-16 fighter jet was seen in the area at the time of the explosion.
Hamas radio station hit
IAF attack helicopters fired three missiles at a 15-storey building housing a Hamas radio station, "Al Aksa", in Gaza City just after 7 p.m. on Sunday. Reports of casualties ranged from 7 wounded to at least five people killed in the IAF strike on Palestine Tower. People ran in panic through the streets after the attack on the building of apartments and businesses in the upscale Rimal neighborhood. Ambulances raced to the scene. The building housed the offices for a radio station affiliated with Hamas and also offices of the main Palestinian newspaper al Ayyam. The strike came hours after a pregnant mother and her four daughters were shot dead near the Kissufim Crossing at the entrance to the Gush Katif settlement bloc in the Gaza Strip.
Eery. It's almost as if the two were connected...
Military sources said the army had attacked a Hamas radio station that had been broadcasting "incitement." In addition the station broadcasts reports on the movement of IDF forces, and warnings to terrorists of IDF operations or Air Force strikes in the Gaza Strip, the army said. After the first missile hit, the building shook and glass started flying everywhere, said Fathi Sabbah, an editor at Al Ayyam. "Everybody was trying to get out ... but then they hit the building again. Glass flew everywhere, and the building shook," he said. "The blasts were very powerful," said Moin Saraj, 35, a journalist at Al Ayyam. Osama Hamdan, a Hamas leader in Beirut, speaking on an Arab television channel, said "[Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon cannot harm our secret cuz they keep getting whacked leaders, so instead he chooses to strike our media institutions," Army Radio reported Sunday.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 5:19:25 PM ||
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#1
he chooses to strike our media institutions
Hahahahahahaha!
"Institutions." Yeah, you clowns belong in institutions - for the criminally insane.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 17:23 Comments ||
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4 Fatah terrorists killed in Nablus strike
I'd settle for them just killing just one Fatah terrorist. ARAFAT.
Israeli helicopters fired four missiles Sunday at a high-rise building housing a Hamaspropaganda radio station, lightly injuring seven Palestinians. The airstrike took place just hours after Palestinian gunmen ambushed and murdered killed a pregnant Jewish settler and her four young daughters as they were traveling out of Gaza. The missiles, which hit the top corner of the 14-story building near the radio stationsâ offices, caved in part of the roof and cut off electricity to the building. The roofâs red tiles were blown off and smoke rose through the exposed rafters. Screaming women stood on the balconies. (What, no ululating?)
The building, filled with apartments and businesses, in the upscale Rimal neighborhood is also home to the two main collateral targets Palestinian newspapers, Al Ayyam and Al Quds. Military sources said the army had attacked a Hamas radio station that had been broadcasting "incitement." After the first missile hit, the building shook and glass started flying everywhere, said Fathi Sabbah, an editor at Al Ayyam.
"Everybody was trying to get out ... but then they hit the building again. Glass flew everywhere, and the building shook," he said. "The blasts were very powerful," said Moin Saraj, 35, a journalist at Al Ayyam. Seven people were hurt unlike the Israeli mother and her four children by shrapnel and glass shards. The first and second missile were fired about 50 seconds apart, giving people time to flee. People ran in panic through the streets after the attack. The airstrike followed an attack by Palestinian gunmen on a white station wagon as it was driving out of Gaza. The attack -- in which the two gunmen were also killed -- murdered killed a pregnant woman and her four daughters, outraging Israelis. Soldiers killed the two gunmen. The militant Islamic Jihad and Popular Resistance Committees, an umbrella group, claimed responsibility. The violence came as members of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharonâs Likud Party voted in a referendum on his plan to unilaterally pull out of Gaza. Opponents of the plan rightfully say a withdrawal is a reward for terror, but morons supporters say the coastal strip is a quagmire Israel must raze and pave leave.
#6
Incidentally, technical means now exist by which Israel (or the US for that matter) can carry out untraceable precision attacks against any specific point in the world.
Targeting an individual person would require an agent on the ground, but such an agent would not be a shooter and would not be in possession of compromising materials such as weapons or elaborate surveillance equipment.
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli leader Ariel Sharonâs party overwhelmingly has rejected his Gaza pullout plan, exit polls show, handing him an embarrassing defeat.
Sundayâs vote was taken on the same day Palestinian gunmen killed a Jewish settler and her four daughters in the territory.
Television polls projected the prime minister losing the vote in his rightist Likud party roughly 60 to 40 percent despite U.S. President George W. Bushâs endorsement of his strategy of "disengagement" from the Palestinians.
The outcome of the referendum within the traditionally pro-settler Likud, if confirmed by the official ballot count, could jeopardise Sharonâs plan and trigger a political crisis.
Polls in the final run-up to the vote had predicted it would go against Sharon, and Sundayâs ambush of a car carrying a pregnant Jewish settler woman and her children in the Gaza Strip may have hardened "no" sentiment even further.
The attack, which drew a retaliatory Israeli air strike in Gaza City, was also likely to reinforce the opinion of most Israelis that it is not worth the price of keeping 7,500 settlers in hard-to-defend enclaves among 1.3 million Palestinians in the seaside strip.
The Likud referendum was not binding and Sharon had vowed that even if he lost among the partyâs 193,000 voters he would ultimately present the plan to parliament where he would have a greater chance of winning approval.
But Sharon is all but certain to be weakened politically after failing to quell a rebellion by party members unwilling to give up an inch of land captured in the 1967 Middle East war.
Sharon had warned Likud members they could bring down his government and force new elections if they rejected his proposal to uproot all settlements in Gaza and four of 120 enclaves in the West Bank -- a move he said would improve Israelâs security.
But Sharon, who had expected to cruise to victory on Bushâs unprecedented guarantees, was caught off-guard by the intensity of the grass-roots "no" campaign waged by settlers branding withdrawal a "reward to terror".
Minutes before polling stations closed, three Palestinian militants were killed in an explosion in a car in the West Bank city of Nablus, medics said. Some residents said the car was hit by Israeli missiles but there was no immediate confirmation ... Is anyone else beginning to think that Israel should just force every single Palestinian into Jordan or Lebanon and then seal all its borders? The murder of an Israeli mother and her four daughters immediately prior to the critical Gaza pullout vote is a crystal clear indicator that peaceful coexistence just isnât in the cards. Kill Arafat and then begin to systematically raze all of Gaza with due notice given that the West Bank is next. Any Palestinians with completely clean records can return to Israel to resettle without any "right of return" compensation.
I am starting to feel that there will be no other solution. Arab hardcore anti-Semitism must be rewarded with consistent humiliation and military defeat. It is clear that much of the remaining world willingly blinds itself to Palestinian terror. So be it, Israel must now abandon all pretense of conforming to world opinion and demonstrate openly its consistent and intransigent stand against terrorism. Let the gloves come off, terrorists have done so in Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. The charade is over and Islamist terror must be crushed.
#1
This will assure violence prior to every election now.
Posted by: b ||
05/02/2004 16:23 Comments ||
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#2
If the Israelis were to adopt a policy of reciprocity with the Palestinians, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left on the face of the earth. Perhaps the Knesset should hold a national referendum on the subject?
#3
Reuters: The attack, which drew a retaliatory Israeli air strike in Gaza City, was also likely to reinforce the opinion of most Israelis that it is not worth the price of keeping 7,500 settlers in hard-to-defend enclaves among 1.3 million Palestinians in the seaside strip.
Did the massacre of the Israeli woman and her toddlers reinforce what Reuters claims to be the view of most Israelis that they should pull out of the Gaza Strip? It certainly did not convince most members of the Likud Party. Matt Spetalnick is just another one of the pro-Palestinian Reuters propagandists I've given up on.
#4
If the Israelis were to adopt a policy of reciprocity with the Palestinians, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left on the face of the earth.
Actually, they do maintain fairly decent reciprocity. The ratio of Palestinians to Israelis killed remains almost constant at 3:1. Maybe Israel just needs to increase the offset.
#5
am I losing my mind? I could swear I heard Fox confirm that Israel killed two leaders of ...I think Al Aqsa...can't find it confirmed anywhere. Did anyone else hear this?
Posted by: b ||
05/02/2004 16:56 Comments ||
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#5,you are not losing your mind.Israel just gave 2 Al Aqsa leaders a 1-way ticket to join Allah.
Posted by: rex ||
05/02/2004 17:10 Comments ||
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#7
and 144 raisins for you to share! Nice
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 17:14 Comments ||
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#9
b--No, you're not losing your mind! LGF has some great pix of the obligatory car swarm. I think the guy in the last pic is holding up a spleen. Them's good eatin'.
Btw, I think Israel should up that kill ratio an order of magnitude or two.
Posted by: Dar ||
05/02/2004 20:59 Comments ||
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#10
Anti and Gentle think we are violent bigots the should take in a visit at LGF,them folks be hard core.(not a critisizing,just an observation)
Found via Powerline EFL snip
"We very clearly saw that something crossed into Syria," he said.
"We have six or seven credible reports of Iraqi weapons being moved into Syria before the war," a senior administration official told Kenneth Timmerman of Insight magazine. A Syrian intelligence officer, in letters smuggled to an anti-regime activist in Paris, identified three sites in Syria where Iraqi WMD are being stored, Timmerman said. The sites were the same as those identified earlier by a Syrian journalist who defected to Europe... "New evidence out of Iraq suggests that the U.S. effort to track down Saddam Husseinâs missing weapons of mass destruction is having better success than is being reported," Timmerman said. "In virtually every case -- chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missiles -- the United States has found the weapons and the programs that the Iraqi dictator successfully concealed for 12 years from U.N. weapons inspectors." Charles Duelfer, the chief weapons inspector in Iraq, said that a primary source for funding Saddamâs illicit weapons programs was kickbacks on contracts set up under the United Nationsâ Oil-for-Food program. When is his next report due?
These developments have received little attention from the major media, perhaps because they are unhelpful to Democratic prospects in the fall. But what if the Jordanian attack had succeeded? What if the target had been Chicago instead of Amman? Some things are more important than domestic politics.
#5
nope! - this one writes (excellent) military-political articles in Pittsburgh. The other one is on "hiatus" to write a book, no doubt. I find this Kelly's articles usually via www.realclearpolitics.com
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 19:42 Comments ||
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#6
see my post: http://www.rantburg.com/default.asp?D=5/2/2004#32061
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 19:43 Comments ||
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Thanks, Frank for clearing up the identity of this Jack Kelly and for the link to realclearpolitics. I raised the question because he was making too much sense to be a former USA Today writer.
#8
Not certain, but I believe the the target for completion of the ISG "final" report was this July. Somewhat OT, but if Volcker's UN investigation proceeds expeditiously, as planned, that will make for two interesting news events. Another one would be Saddam's trial -- not sure when that's slated.
Beginning to feel a little heat, Sadr?
Coalition forces are reported to have killed a deputy of Muqtada al-Sadr, the radical Shiite cleric whose militia has launched a suicide mission an uprising against U.S.-led troops in Baghdadâs Sadr City and Iraqâs southern cities. Four other fellow terrorists associates died in Saturdayâs raid on the clericâs Hillah offices along with Adnan al-Anbaky -- al-Sadrâs top deputy in the central Iraq town, according to an al-Sadr spokesman in Najaf, Sayid Hussam al-Hassani. Al-Hassani said on Sunday the offices in Hillah, about 50 miles (80 km) south of Baghdad, housed a human torture rights organization run by al-Sadr.
The coalitionâs top civilian administrator, Paul Bremer, has accused al-Sadr of "attempting to establish his authority in place of the legitimate authority of the Iraqi government and the coalition." However, the U.S. military is continuing to try to broker a deal with al-Sadr, who is reported to be holed up with his militia in a mosque in Najaf. A spokesman for the head maggot in charge cleric, who is wanted for the killing of a rival cleric last year, said on Saturday he received a delegation of community and tribal leaders in an effort to stall indefinitely "to solve the current situation peacefully." We need to crank up this sort of heat a whole lot more. The current disengagement does not seem to be truly productive. I guess weâll have to wait and see just how quickly the supply of Iraqi policemen runs out. At least the locals will finally get a chance to witness Iraqi on Iraqi violence up front and well documented.
#1
There's a long and tragic history of people claiming victory over the US Marines. Maybe the Falluhjans could borrow the Japanese plan for the surrender ceremony on Guadalcanal. After all, it's never been used.
Posted by: Matt ||
05/02/2004 14:46 Comments ||
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#2
At least the Marines are maintaining some sort of high profile. They left a nice little "thank you" note for Sadr.
#3
I never bought they were retreating strategically or not. I see it as strategic redeployment/rearming/resting up and reconnoiterring...enough R's?
Add some Iraqi flavor cohorts for PR - now kick ass. The Sadr's and Fallujan's will se this as a victory (see other posts) and overstep their bounds. Go Marines!
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 15:49 Comments ||
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#4
Good point, Frank.
Our strategy should recognize the arrogance and simple-mindedness of these people, and exploit it.
In that case, the enemy media (Jazzero, BBC, Al Reuters, etc.) actually become an asset until they can follow their clients onto the ash-heap of history.
#5
This proclamation is laughable. If there is no surrender of weapons or perpetrators fairly quickly we have just allowed the insurgents to concentrate as many perps as possible for an oncoming slaughter. They are truly stupid. This is akin to every Palestinian bad actor volunteering to enter the Gaza Strip. I speculate that ground beef prices will fall sharply in Fallujah. Just don't let the women and the kids back in before we gut the place, that would be inhumane.
Posted by: Super Hose ||
05/04/2004 0:57 Comments ||
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Posted by: ed ||
05/02/2004 10:30 ||
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#1
What the bloody CNN doesn't say that the girls aged 2 - 11 years were shot at point blank. What it also doesn't say is what their armored vehicle was doing there exactly at the time of the ambush.
Posted by: marek ||
05/02/2004 14:58 Comments ||
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#2
What? Arafat still breathing?
Mr. Hamas, it's was nice not knowing you!
Posted by: john ||
05/02/2004 16:20 Comments ||
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#3
my friend antiwar will explain what happened shortly
#4
Of course - she'll be able to explain it - they're occupying Joooos especially the little girls - Pacifist Antisemitic Islam-Loving Asswipe that she is
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 20:44 Comments ||
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Moroccan security forces have arrested four sabre-wielding suspects in connection with the bombings that killed 45 people in Casablanca a year ago. The men were arrested on Saturday after an exchange of gunfire during an overnight police raid on a house in the Hay Hassani district on the southern outskirts of Casablanca. One of those held was Abd al-Malik Bouizagarne, believed to be a top planner in the five coordinated attacks carried out by 12 human bombers on 16 May 2003. MAP identified the others as Muhammad Jarmuni and Murad Lamnauar. Two of the three suffered bullet wounds in the legs. Government sources said about half a dozen alleged Islamist fighters were cornered by security forces in Sid al-Khadir and that four, not three, people were arrested. One was reported to be in a critical condition in hospital with bullet wounds. The two others escaped. MAP said counterfeit money and sabres were seized, along with passports and identity cards belonging to other people.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/02/2004 10:43:15 AM ||
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Pakistani police have foiled a plot by militants linked to al-Qaeda to attack a high-security prison and help 30 of the country's most dangerous terrorist suspects escape.
Heavily armed paramilitary troops have been ordered to patrol the streets around the main prison in Karachi and police with assault rifles have been stationed on watchtowers and at its gates since the discovery last week of the plan to blow a hole in the outer walls.
As a bomb on a truck was to be detonated outside, the 30 terrorist suspects planned to set off a series of smaller bombs inside the prison and, in the ensuing chaos, use smuggled weapons to escape. "They planned to use a remote-control bomb to destroy an outside wall of the prison, so those inside could escape," a prison official said. The plan was set for this week.
"Mahmoud! You drive the truck into the wall and set off the bomb."
"But I thought we were going to trigger it by remote control!"
"We are. You're the control, and we're remote!"
Almost 5000 prisoners, including 180 Islamists belonging to outlawed militant groups, are housed in Karachi's main jail. They include militants awaiting trial for their alleged involvement in assassination attempts on Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, suicide attacks at the American consulate in Karachi, the killing of 11 French engineers and other terrorist acts.
Investigations into the escape attempt uncovered an extremely lax regime at the prison. Many terrorist suspects were housed five to a cell, and all were permitted to say prayers and recite the Koran together for five hours every day at a mosque within the prison compound. "Since all these militants met at this mosque daily, they were able to sketch out their strategy to escape," said an official close to the inquiry. Investigators said the terrorist suspects were assisted by a lower-grade prisoner, Khuram Khan, from Mansehra in the North-West Frontier province bordering Afghanistan.
Khuram had been sentenced to death for his involvement in a murder case in Mansehra, but he escaped to Karachi, where police were unaware of his previous record. He was arrested for possessing a pistol - a relatively minor offence. He began visiting the prison mosque, where he was persuaded by the militants to help them escape, officials said. Because he was a lower-category prisoner, his visitors were subjected to less thorough searches. Khuram was told to ask his relatives to smuggle small weapons and urea (fertiliser), potassium and other bomb-making materials into the prison.
The prisoners had previously experimented with building small bombs and had rehearsed setting one off.
One wonders how that was pulled off inside a Pak prison.
Prison authorities uncovered the plot when one of the men, fearing casualties among residents, tipped them off. The suspected terrorists have been moved to isolation cells and are being questioned.
Police have also arrested a brother of Khuram, who has since confessed to having ordered a consignment of a dozen sandals concealing small automatic weapons in their soles, from a contact in the North-West Frontier province.
The authorities plan to transfer the suspects to different prisons around Pakistan, an official said.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 10:28:10 AM ||
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Edited for brevity.
American hostage Thomas Hamill, kidnapped three weeks ago in an insurgent attack on his convoy, was found by U.S. forces Sunday south of Tikrit after he apparently escaped from his captors, the U.S. military said. An official said he was in "good health." Hamill, 43, of Macon, Miss., was discovered when he approached a U.S. patrol from the 2nd Battalion 108th Infantry, part of the New York National Guard, in the town of Balad, 35 miles south of Tikrit, a spokesman for U.S. troops in Tikrit said. He identified himself, then led the patrol to the house where he had been held captive. The unit surrounded the house and captured two Iraqis with an automatic weapon, said the spokesman, Maj. Neal OâBrien.
Hamill, a truck driver working for a subsidiary of the contractor Halliburton, had a gunshot wound to his left arm that appeared to be infected, and was flown by helicopter to Bagdad, OâBrien said. Video images of Hamill released by his captors a day after his abduction showed his left arm in a sling, suggesting he was wounded during the attack on his convoy.
In Macon, Hamillâs wife, Kellie, said she received a call about 5:50 a.m. telling her that her husband had been found alive. She said it was "the best wakeup call Iâve ever had." Kellie said one of the first things she did was to wake up their children. "There has been a lot of praying and I am so grateful to everybody," she said. "Weâre all so relieved, so excited. I want everybody know heâs been found. Iâm going to be shouting it from the rooftops."
Posted by: Dar ||
05/02/2004 9:55:03 AM ||
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#1
Nice to see some good news for a change, it cleanses the palette.
#5
I think what happened was the kidnappers ran away when the patrol came by, giving Hamill his chance to escape. Must have been refreshing for him to go back with marines and say "hello" to his captors.
Posted by: Charles ||
05/02/2004 12:43 Comments ||
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#6
This doesn't surprise me. I remember how calm he was when the reporters were talking to him when he was sitting in the captors' car. Like he had been through it all before.
Posted by: Dan ||
05/02/2004 13:25 Comments ||
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#8
Woo Hoo. Not only good news, but has a Hollywood ending: he goes back and gets the bastards.
Damn I needed to hear this.
Posted by: Carl in N.H. ||
05/02/2004 14:16 Comments ||
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#9
"But Ahmed, I thought you were watching the infidel. . ."
"Hamid, dont you remember I had to take a leak, then I was going to help my father chop off the hand of this boy who stole an apple from a tree in my fathers yard."
"But Ahmed. Play is for after work, we have to insult and threaten him."
"But Hamid, where were you?"
"Me?"
"Yes!"
"Well, I ...."
"Yes?"
"OK, I was making a wish list as to t h specifications of hte 72 virgins when the infidels come and level this building after they find the infidels body."
"Hamid, how are you so sure you will be entitled to the 72?"
"Osama!"
"Aaaaaah."
Bobby Lisekâs life was saved last week by a washing line. Dashing for cover across a rooftop during a night raid in Sadr City, he was jolted to a halt by the low-hanging line. At the same moment, a volley of bullets ripped past his midriff, one ricocheting off the radio clipped to his belt. A couple of paces further on, he would have been the latest American soldier to die in Iraq. Instead, two days later, the young serviceman from rural Missouri is re-enacting the incident as slapstick comedy, to the delight of his comrades in Hell Raiser platoon. "If it wasnât for that line, I wouldnât be here now," he said. "Those bullets would have been straight into me."
Contrary to the recent portrayals of a dispirited US army in Iraq, and despite the threat of attack by mortar or rocket-propelled grenade, Specialist Lisek and his fellow soldiers of the 1st Cavalry Division are in buoyant mood. They have been blooded on the foetid, teeming streets of Sadr City, taking on Mahdi Army fighters loyal to the firebrand Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in some of the fiercest battles since Baghdad fell last April.
"We should be known as the Lucky Platoon," said Staff Sgt Paul Boutte. "Every time one of my guys moved, bullets fired into the wall where he had just been standing." Most of his men seem to be enjoying the experience, despite last monthâs death count for American soldiers reaching a record high of 136. "Hell, weâre grunts" said Lisek. "This is what we live for. Itâs been quite a start and I could have been dead twice already. But weâre all delighted. Time passes much more quickly when youâre being shot at."
A year after President George W Bush declared the end of major combat operations in Iraq, the soldiers of Hell Raiser platoon made no secret of their relief that the commander-in-chiefâs assessment proved premature. The 1st Cavalry Division was originally scheduled to leave its base in Fort Hood, Texas, a year ago, but was delayed after units in Iraq were kept on. The delay was a big disappointment for the soldiers. A year of newspaper headlines about mounting death tolls did nothing to diminish their desire to see action. They have seen plenty since, after being thrown into the brutal realities of urban combat in an area where the population once welcomed US troops as liberators, but now views them with increasing hostility. Most of the 700 troops of 2nd battalion, 5th Regiment of 1st Cavalry had been in Iraq for only a week when the unit assumed charge of Sadr City, home to more than two million Shias, at 6pm on April 4. Fifteen minutes later, one of the biggest battles in Baghdad for a year erupted - a series of ambushes and armed clashes that by dawn had claimed the lives of eight US soldiers and scores, possibly hundreds, of Shia fighters.
Almost a month later, Camp Eagle, the divisional headquarters, is still coming under attack. "You should have been here last night," the guard said with a laugh. "Six mortars hit the base, all at once. Hell of a noise. We heard six, but only five exploded so weâre still looking for one."
Climbing into a sweltering Bradly armoured vehicle, we set off on patrol into the centre of Sadr City, through a desolate wasteland of junk merchants, car repair yards and crumbling tenement blocks. Our destination is the district advisory council building which comes under attack regularly because local politicians are viewed as collaborators with the Americans by al-Sadr militants. Later in the day, we hear that the councilâs chairman has been kidnapped elsewhere in Sadr City by men claiming to be from the Mahdi Army.
The district council became a temporary refuge for the platoon in the early hours of April 4 after one of their Humvees, the all-purpose vehicles that have borne the brunt of recent attack, was destroyed by a barrage of Kalashnikov fire and rocket-propelled grenades. "It was Humvee Down," says Specialist Rodney Hudson, alluding to the film Black Hawk Down.
Today, Iraqi police guard the front gate below, but Hudson is contemptuous of their allies. "Those guys showed where they stood on April 4. They just disappeared," he said. "Some were probably fighting against us. Theyâre no friends of mine. My only friends here are the guys in my platoon." For the men of Charlie company, the them-and-us mentality is as acute as it is for the locals. "By day, the guys out there wave and smile at us," said Sgt Bill Young. "At night, the same people are trying to kill us."
Posted by: Bulldog ||
05/02/2004 6:00:07 AM ||
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We should be known as the Lucky Platoon
A small but vital part of the AOLs' far flung divisions.
#4
Today, Iraqi police guard the front gate below, but Hudson is contemptuous of their allies. "Those guys showed where they stood on April 4. They just disappeared," he said. "Some were probably fighting against us. Theyâre no friends of mine. My only friends here are the guys in my platoon." For the men of Charlie company, the them-and-us mentality is as acute as it is for the locals. "By day, the guys out there wave and smile at us," said Sgt Bill Young. "At night, the same people are trying to kill us."
It's good to know our soldiers on the ground aren't fooled one bit, even if their top brass is swallowing this horsesh!t.
"Hundreds of U.S. troops are deployed outside the Najaf-Kufa area, and a contingent has moved into a base within the city, about five kilometers (three miles) from sensitive holy sites at the heart of Najaf. The Americans have clashed occasionally with al-Sadr followers outside Najaf. The U.S. military moved to capture al-Sadr after his militia staged an uprising across the south, sparked by the arrest of one of his aides. That uprising has died down, but his militiamen still dominate Najaf, Kufa and Karbala, the three holiest Shiite cities in Iraq.
Here too we see the chessboard-like moves of military units while the coalition "meets with local officials every day" without "negotiating with anyone on any five-point plan". Little wonder that Chalabi and Abdul Mahdi are so nervous. Sadr should be too.
Lucky Platoon rocks. But whenever I tell them to straighten up they act like they can't hear me.
Zenster, I take that top brass comment personally, but I think the honchos that are leading the Hell Raisers are pros. They don't swallow horseshit.
#6
Zenster: It's good to know our soldiers on the ground aren't fooled one bit, even if their top brass is swallowing this horsesh!t.
This is called diplomacy. We pretend to like them, they pretend to like us and we get along - some of the time. Sounds a lot like hypocrisy? Bingo. Think of it as a social lubricant.
The four Italian security guards kidnapped in Iraq had their personal protection weapons confiscated by American soldiers just hours before they were seized by suspected rebels, colleagues have revealed. According to Paolo Simeoni, the former leader of their security team, soldiers manning a checkpoint in one of Baghdadâs most dangerous districts confiscated their three high-powered assault rifles and two pistols. Breaking his silence about the incident, Mr Simeoni said the Americans claimed that the Italians had flouted gun permit rules. The soldiers issued a receipt so that the arms could be collected at a later date.
The men, who had been on their way back to Italy, were forced to return to their hotel and search for substitute weapons. They managed to find just a single machine pistol and two handguns, which friends fear left them vulnerable to their attackers. In Rome, an adviser to the Italian government said that the authorities were keen to question Mr Simeoni as he was considered "the key to understanding what really happened". "This man is not technically being sought, as he would be if in Italian territory,â he said. "But the Italian authorities have not heard from him since the incident. Letâs not forget that a man has been killed, and an inquiry has been opened by Italian magistrates in Genoa."
Last night Mr Simeoni, 32, told The Sunday Telegraph that the receipt for the guns from the Americans was in his possession. "My colleagues were driving home from Baghdad to Jordan that morning when they came across a checkpoint manned by US soldiers," he said. "We do not know exactly why the soldiers confiscated the weapons. The Iraqi interior ministry does not issue weapons permits to Westerners - they say that normally all you need to do is show an ID card, such as a passport. All my men had Italian passports on them, and Fabrizio had a pass for the Coalition Provisional Authority headquarters in Baghdadâs Green Zone. Normally that is more than enough proof that they were working in security for the coalition, but in this case the soldiers wouldnât accept it."
The kidnappers pounced as the Italians drove along Highway 10, the main road leading from Baghdad to Jordan which passes through the lawless area around Fallujah. "Four men with powerful assault rifles in a car might have stood a chance against these guys," said one security consultant who used to employ the men. "Four men with just one MP5 and a couple of pistols between them would probably not have."
Mr Simeoniâs revelations come amid growing criticism from the estimated 12,000 private security guards in Iraq that US-led forces are not doing enough to protect them. Many say that coalition troops refuse to come to their aid if they are attacked, yet prevent them carrying heavier weapons to defend themselves. Technically, foreign security staff must have a weapons permit with a serial number that matches the gun they are carrying. The rules are normally relaxed, however, for Western security guards, who are waved through checkpoints. "If they had been British or American, I think it would have been fine," Mr Simeoni claimed. "It may be that because they were Italians and their English was not quite perfect, the soldiers did not trust them."
Mr Simeoni believes that his men were the victims of a well-planned ambush, and admits that more powerful weapons may not have saved them. "I think it had something to do with the taxi drivers who took them out, that they led them into a trap," he said. "But I am still angry that the US army just took their weapons away from them like that - these were professional security people and doing that put them in immediate risk." He said that he had talked to Italian officials in Iraq after the incident. The government adviser said that only one of the kidnapped men, Salvatore Stefio, had adequate experience in foreign security. "If the Italians had acted professionally, they would never have made the journey in the first place," he said. Last night, the Italian foreign ministry refused to comment on the disclosures.
A US Army official said: "We are still investigating this matter and cannot comment further."
Posted by: Bulldog ||
05/02/2004 5:55:29 AM ||
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It doesn't require a high IQ to understand what and why the coalition policy must be regards civvies carrying weapons. Consider the circumstances and it's clear that, unless they had coordinated with the authorities and acquired permits, if they were disarmed it was because they had flouted the law -- and in a combat zone, no less. Calling the local CPA guys was the answer, not trusting their lives to some local cab drivers. The Italians know the rules and the reasons. American contractors face the same problems. Simeoni: get with the program and coordinate with the CPA - and quit pretending your circumstances are special. They're not.
Thousands of additional troops are to be sent to Iraq to take control of the Shia holy city of Najaf in the largest expansion of British Forces since the start of the Gulf war, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal. Up to 4,000 troops will begin arriving in the next few weeks to plug the gap left by the 1,300 Spanish soldiers who were withdrawn from the country last week. It is understood that Tony Blair, the Prime Minister, took the decision to send the additional troops to Iraq after meeting President George W. Bush at a White House summit two weeks ago. The Government has so far refused to make an official announcement.
Defence chiefs have backed the deployment, but have warned the Government that the Army is at full stretch and would struggle to deal with any other international emergency requiring personnel. Senior officers have also warned that the deployment of troops to Najaf and Kut, where heavy fighting has recently taken place, is likely to lead to extensive casualties. Najaf, which contains the most important Shia shrine in Iraq, is where Moqtada al-Sadr, a Shia cleric, has established a 3,000-strong militia force whose members are vehemently opposed to the occupation of their country.
The British force will be composed of troops from the Royal Marine Commandos, a Parachute Regiment battalion and an as-yet unidentified infantry battalion, as well as supporting elements from artillery and logistics units. The force will be lead by Brig Jim Dutton, the commander of 3 Commando Brigade, who also served during the Iraq war. The first move towards deployment began last Thursday when a strategic reconnaissance team of senior Army officers from the Permanent Joint Headquarters, at Northwood, Middlesex, flew to Iraq. It is understood that officers from 3 Commando headquarters will also be flying out within the next week to conduct reconnaissance of the area. The reconnaissance team is expected to deliver its findings to Gen John Reith, the chief of Joint Operations, who will brief Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, on his plan of action. Mr Hoon will brief Mr Blair before he makes a formal statement to the House of Commons. The first tranche of troops, either from the Marines or the Parachute Regiment, could arrive in Iraq within the next two weeks and take up the position left by the Spanish troops in Najaf.
At present, the region of Iraq south of Baghdad is divided into two military areas, commanded by multi-national divisions. Multi-National Division South East, which includes Basra, is commanded by Maj Gen Andrew Stewart and is where most of the British Armyâs 7,500 troops are based. The extra troops will go to the neighbouring Multi-National Division Central South, which is under Polish command and is where the Spanish troops were deployed. The plan drawn up by senior British officers will result in the whole of the Central South divisional area being brought under the command of the British headquarters. It rules out the option of sending one of the Armyâs two divisional headquarters to take over command of the area.
Although it is possible that other countries may offer to commit more troops to Iraq instead of Britain, US generals have made it clear that their preferred option is for more British reinforcements. The move will have a significant impact on the Armyâs future domestic commitments, such as large-scale exercises and routine deployments to Northern Ireland. However, the decision to send the troops is widely regarded among the chiefs as the least damaging option to both the security and stability of the Coalition. A senior Ministry of Defence official said: "Not sending troops was never really an option because of the message it would have sent to the rest of the Coalition. It is difficult to predict how long these troops will have to remain in Iraq, but it wonât be less than two years. This means that many troops, mainly from the infantry and logistical support units, will have to complete a six-month tour of duty in Iraq every 10 months. For reasons of morale, the interval target between operational tours is supposed to be 24 months. "Plans have been drawn up for the deployment of at least three battle groups and a brigade headquarters to Iraq. Officially, no decisions have been made on troop numbers, but privately units are already being told to prepare for operations." An MoD spokesman said that plans for the deployment of troops had been drawn up, but added: "Formal decisions have not yet been made."
Adam Ingram, the Armed Forces minister, said that discussions were continuing with other members of the Coalition about how to respond to the withdrawal of Spanish troops, but declined to be drawn on specific plans. "Itâs something that clearly had to be considered given the fact that there is a changed situation with the withdrawal of Spanish forces," Mr Ingram told Today on BBC Radio Four yesterday. "We are in discussion with our Coalition partners in all this. No decision has been taken. No formal request has yet been made."
Najaf, which is a two-hour drive from Baghdad, contains the shrines where many of the important figures in Shia Islam, including the mosque where Ali, the founder of the faith, is buried. The stand-off between Coalition troops and supporters of Sadr in Najaf began four weeks ago when fighting broke out as protesters marched outside the garrison of the Spanish military contingent. Twenty people were killed, including soldiers from the US and El Salvador, and more than 100 injured in fighting between troops and Iraqi demonstrators who were marching in support of Sadr following the arrest of his aide and the closure of a pro-Sadr newspaper. The rebel cleric has warned Coalition troops that they will face suicide bomb attacks if they attack Najaf. The US has since avoided launching an all-out offensive against Najaf for fear of antagonising Iraqis. However, US troops killed 64 members of Sadrâs militia in Kufa, a small town six miles to the north east of Najaf on Monday night.
Posted by: Bulldog ||
05/02/2004 5:52:01 AM ||
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Those are some of the baddest troops in the world.
EFL
Military police are preparing to arrest six British soldiers they suspect of torturing and abusing Iraqi prisoners, The Telegraph has learnt. Six junior non-commissioned officers serving with the Queenâs Lancashire Regiment are being questioned over claims that they systematically abused Iraqi civilians during a tour of duty last summer. They are expected to be formally arrested within the next 48 hours. The soldiers, being interrogated in Cyprus by members of the Royal Military Policeâs Special Investigation Branch, face court martial and may be imprisoned if found guilty of any assault charges.
The Telegraph has learnt that rumours of a rogue element of Queenâs Lancashire Regiment soldiers, who routinely abused Iraqi prisoners, have been circulating within Army headquarters in Basra since last summer. One senior officer said the alleged abuse began after the murder in August of Dai Jones, 29, a popular captain from the regiment. He died in an ambulance blown up by a bomb. The alleged abuse of prisoners in August and September is being seen as a form of misguided retribution.
According to the Mirror, a British soldier who took part in the alleged assault of the hooded man said the victim had been held for stealing. The soldier said: "As we took him back he was getting a beating. He was hit with batons on the knees, fingers toes and elbows, and head." Apparently referring to other such attacks, he continued: "You normally try to leave off the face until youâre in camp. If you pull up with black eyes and bleeding faces you could be in s**t." The soldier added that the prisonerâs eight-hour ordeal ended when he was dumped from a moving vehicle. He did not know whether the man survived. One member of the regiment is already under investigation over claims that an Iraqi civilian, Baha Dawud al-Maliki, 29, died of internal injuries while in custody of QLR soldiers in September. Military police are also investigating another eight claims of torture and abuse of Iraqi prisoners - several involving deaths in custody.
One senior officer, however, refused to rule out that the newspaper had become the victim of a hoax. "The pictures are clearly posed," he said. "We canât see whether the man with a sandbag over his head is an Iraqi or not." Piers Morgan, the Mirror editor, said he was "completely satisfied with the veracity of the photographs", adding: "We went to great lengths to check them out." He declined to say whether the paper had paid for the pictures, but he added: "Money was not the motivating factor. The motivating factor was a deepening sense of guilt about what [the soldiers] had been involved in, and a feeling that this would inevitably come out at some point."
The allegation will have a devastating impact on the reputation of the 300-year-old regiment, based in Preston. Retired Lt Col John Downham, the Regimental Secretary, said: "We are furious that these people, whoever they turn out to be, have besmirched our hard-earned, good name, and let down the many hundreds of soldiers whose outstandingly successful tour in Basra was recognised by no fewer than 21 honours and awards."
Posted by: Bulldog ||
05/02/2004 5:31:50 AM ||
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According to an article i read on a dutch news-site this morning the pictures are fake, having looked at the pictures on the site I'm starting to have suspicions as well.
Posted by: Evert V. in NL ||
05/02/2004 6:42 Comments ||
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So, is there any possibility that the pictures of the American soldiers abusing the Iraqis are fakes, also?
#4
They updated the story to incorperate some non-sense about systematic abuse by US soldiers, the link is here.
Posted by: Evert V. in NL ||
05/02/2004 8:52 Comments ||
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I posted in Rantburg, yesterday, an article from the BBC relating to doubts over the authenticity of the photos in question.
The unlikely equipment featured in the photos, listed there, and Atomic Conspiracy's points about the victim's changing clothing, suggest the photos may indeed be fakes. However, there is more evidence suggesting that incidents similar the one portrayed in the pictures have actually happened.
People are going to have to be punished severely for this, at the end of the day. I just hope it's hoaxers and/or Mirror staffers.
#6
I'm fully aware that neither Yanks nor Brit soldiers are perfect angels, but I'm not buying a load of crap from the DAILY MIRROR!!!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 9:20 Comments ||
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I'm wondering if this is a setup. Is it possible that certain soldiers or other parties faked these pics and fed them to Al Mirror just to embarrass that singularly credulous enemy institution?
The militiamen of wanted cleric Moqtada Sadr have dug in with force in the inner sanctum of the holy city of Najaf, much to the alarm of residents and rival Shiite groups, and say they want to drive US soldiers out of Iraq. Hundreds of edgy young men from Sadrâs Mehdi Army, carrying sniper and assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenade launchers, were seen yesterday positioned in the area around the mausoleum of Imam Ali, the cityâs holiest shrine. Many more were seen on building rooftops and in alleys off the four main streets leading to the mausoleum. Several pickup trucks were ferrying fighters to and from what looked like a makeshift command center just behind the mausoleum.
Sounds like they're doing their best to make it the target...
Nearby militiamen loaded atop a minivan the wooden coffin of one of their comrades killed in fighting with US troops last Monday. âThey are taking him back to Baghdad to his parents,â said a militiamen wistfully.
Ow! My heartstrings! You're tugging too hard!
Most of Sadrâs fighters are from poor Shiite families from outside Najaf province, mainly from his stronghold of Sadr City in Baghdad, a slum in the northern part of the capital. Sadr, who is wanted in connection with the murder of a rival cleric last year, appeared to be bolstering his force inside Najaf over the past few days with more young recruits, or âvolunteersâ as he calls them, from Baghdad and southern cities like Amara, Basra and Nassiriyah. The stepped-up presence of Sadr followers has visibly worried other armed Shiite groups in the city like the Badr Organization, which is part of the mainstream Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. Even guards entrusted with protecting Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, Shiitesâ most eminent cleric, said they feared âknee-jerk reactionsâ by Mehdi militiamen against Sistaniâs office and base on Rasul Street off the mausoleum.
Gee. You don't suppose he'll be accidentally bumped off in a "cross fire," do you?
Sistani has called for a peaceful resolution of the standoff with Sadr and has called for the respect of the sanctity of Najaf, and has steered away from any statement that might be perceived as a call for jihad against the Americans or an endorsement of Sadr.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/02/2004 3:25:05 AM ||
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If the jihadis would "respect the sanctity of Najaf," there wouldn't be a problem. But we're the only ones respecting any sanctity, as they fill up their "holy" mosque with heavy arms.
Hypocrites.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 3:36 Comments ||
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Not knowing this city, but it feels like a cordon off and starve situation. Sadr is not popular in Najaf...and we shouldn't make him so. But neither can we allow him to win any sort of victory. Cordon it off.
#3
RMcLeod has the right idea. The Coalition Forces should seal up Najaf airtight, say very loudly that all women, children, and Al Jazeera cameramen should leave and then shut off the electricity and water. I wonder if they still get the virgins if they starve for Allah.
Guess the answer Chris Hitchens comes up with. EFL, but read the whole thing at the link.
It's now fairly obvious that those who cover Iraq have placed their bets on a fiasco or "quagmire" and that this conclusion shows in the fiber and detail of their writing.
*****
I continue to be amazed at the way in which so many liberals repeat the discredited mantra of the CIA to the effect that Saddam Hussein's regime was so "secular" that it not only did not collaborate, but axiomatically could not have collaborated with Islamists. If you can imagine a Hitler-Stalin pact (which, admittedly, a lot of American leftists still cannot), you can probably imagine collusion between discrepant factions with common interests.
In any case, the Saddam regime was not as "secular" as all that. The campaign of extermination waged in northern Iraq by Saddam's army was titled "Anfal" after a verse in the Quran that supposedly licenses total war. The words "Allahu Akbar" were placed on the Iraqi flag after the defeat in Kuwait. The Baath Party became the open patron of Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Palestine. The rhetoric of the Saddamist leadership was exclusively jihadist for the last decade, with special mosques built all over the country in honor of the regime. Now comes a document from the files of the Iraqi secret police, or Mukhabarat, dated March 28, 1992, and headed routinely, "In the Name of Allah, the Merciful and Compassionate." It is a straightforward listing of contacts and "assets," quite unsensational until it comes to the "Saudi front," where we find the name "Osama bin Ladin/he is well-known Saudi businessman, founder of Saudi opposition in Afghanistan, had connection with Syrian division." Of course, this is not a smoking gun.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 2:19:43 AM ||
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I know some blogs don't care for Hitchens too much, but overall, since 9-11, I think he's been pretty consistent in backing Dubya's WOT efforts.
Did piss me off with his bashing of M. Gibson and "The Passion", but hey, he's still got plenty of time to come around on some things!
Are war correspondents betting on failure in Iraq?
Betting on it? They're trying to bring it about.
Fucking jackasses. And traitors.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 22:29 Comments ||
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I love Hitch!
He's a true eccentric in the classical sense plus he's brilliant, witty and outstandingly articulate.
And he can nail the Left where it hurts because he used to be one of them.
Oh, the humanity! LOL
(The only time he loses me is when he goes off on Kissinger and the "coup" Hitch claims he pulled with Pinochet in Chile 1973.)
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 22:35 Comments ||
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Bear poops in woods!
Pope discovered to be Catholic!
Khartoum is still backing Arab Janjawid militias in Sudan's war-torn Darfur region, a Chadian official accused Thursday, saying the Janjawid have attacked a town inside Chad, killing one civilian and wounding many others. "The Janjawid attacked the civilian population in Kulbus-Chad," said Allami Ahmat, diplomatic adviser to Chadian President Idriss Deby and a member of the Chadian mediation team that is trying to broker an end to the Darfur war, which pits rebels in Sudan's far west against the Khartoum government and allied militias. "This situation is all the more unacceptable because the Sudanese army tolerates and offers land and air backup to the Janjawid militias," said Ahmat.
Can we maybe get a nice war going between Sudan and Chad? I'll make popcorn...
The pro-Khartoum militiamen also tried to steal the Chadian villagers' cattle and herd it back across the border into Sudan, said Ahmat. The villagers pursued the Janjawid into Sudan but were pushed back to the border by the Sudanese army, he said. There, the Sudanese soldiers had a verbal spat with their Chadian counterparts, said Ahmat. "We can confirm that the Janjawid militia is still very active and has not been disarmed," said Ahmat, backing accusations by Darfur rebels that Khartoum had breached an accord signed on April 8 in the Chadian capital.
I am just sooooo surprised!
On Tuesday, the military spokesman for the rebel Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) told AFP: "Rather than disarm the Janjawid militias, Khartoum is setting them up in four places to integrate them into the army... This is a violation of the Ndjamena accord." Under the terms of the deal signed in the Chadian capital, the parties agreed to cease hostilities, guarantee safe passage for humanitarian aid to the stricken region, free prisoners of war and disarm militias blamed for much of the violence.
Which Khartoum simply isn't going to let happen...
Last week, the top UN human rights forum meeting in Geneva split over the Darfur situation, adopting a softly worded text on the alleged atrocities despite the United States demanding tough action. Khartoum welcomed the mildly worded UN text, calling it "a victory for law."
Then Khartoum's lips fell off...
Sudanese President Omar Bashir said during a visit to Darfur on Tuesday that the war in the region was over. And when the pact was signed on April 8, Bashir said his government was "committed to respecting the Ndjamena agreements."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 2:35:02 AM ||
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Ahh yes,that Champion of the down-trodden and oppressed,the U.N.,speaks.
What a usless outfit.Why do we even bother?
Rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) led by Joseph Kony killed at least 35 people and wounded 18 others in their attack on a camp for internally displaced persons in northern Uganda on Thursday evening. Over 100 rebels wearing the uniforms of the government troops entered the camp in Gulu district and started to kill the people, survivors said. A survivor, who is in Gulu hospital nursing a broken leg, said 35 bodies were recovered from the camp housing about 25,000 people displaced by the war. Another survivor said most of the dead have bullet injuries all over their bodies and other have broken limbs. Local security sources said that at least two government soldiers were killed and some others were reportedly missing. This is the third time since 2002 the rebels attacked the place.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 2:33:38 AM ||
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The Sudanese government has ordered its army to arrest and deport Ugandan rebel leader Joseph Kony of the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), local newspaper The New Vision reported Saturday.
"Calling all cars! Be on the lookout for Joseph Kony! That is all!"
Sudanese Ambassador to Uganda Sirajuddin Yousif was quoted as saying that "there are clear instructions from Khartoum to our soldiers that if Kony crosses the red line, he must be arrested and deported to Uganda." The report also said that Kony's wounded deputy Vincent Otti last weekend requested some parliament members from Acholi to convey to the government his willingness to talk peace. Spokesman of the Uganda People's Defense Forces (UPDF) Major Shaban Bantariza confirmed that "it is true Acholi politicians have been contacted by Otti." Otti, now hiding in Uganda's north district of Gulu, was injured in a battle with the UPDF last month.
Pray for sepsis...
Earlier reports said that the Ugandan army is closing in on the LRA rebels in their new sanctuary in Kit II valley in southern Sudan. The UPDF has spread its troops to the uninhabited jungles below the "red line," the boundary dividing UPDF and the Sudan People's Armed Forces (SPAF). Kony and his supporters fled to Kit II valley after being dislodged by the UPDF from Imatong and Katire areas in March.
Somehow, I can't quite believe that Sudan's going to produce Kony's carcass.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 2:31:13 AM ||
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Algerian Islamic rebels have killed four peasants in a village 80 km south of the capital, state radio said on Saturday, as the bulk of the country's militants took part in surrender talks. State radio said the four were killed in a rare daytime attack on Friday as they ploughed their fields in Draa Tmar in the province of Medea, a centre of rebel activity. Some 30 civilians and officials were killed in April by militants fighting for a Taliban-style state in Muslim Algeria, according to Algerian newspaper reports.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 2:24:34 AM ||
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The army in Niger killed at least four members of a hardline Islamic militant group linked to al Qaeda in the Sahara desert earlier this month, military officials in the West African country said on Friday. "We had no loss of life among our soldiers, just a few light injuries. But we killed four Islamists and took four others prisoner," one official told Reuters. The clash with members of Algeria's Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC) -- classified by the United States as a "terrorist organisation" -- took place on April 17 near Tassara, not far from the border with Mali, the official said. The military sources in Niger said they believed the clash in their country had involved GSPC members who had come from Mali. They said the army had already pushed a group of GSPC fighters back over the border with Mali earlier this month.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 2:17:05 AM ||
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The cancer is spreading, even in Niger & Mali .... Do we have the will to utlize the only known cure for this cult of death?
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 3:57 Comments ||
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Prime Minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali has said that Pakistan doesnât know or care where fugitive Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is hiding, but is willing to help find him. âWe donât know. We have no idea and no clue about it. We are not interested,â Mr Jamali told The Associated Press in an interview on Friday. âI think people who tried to look towards him in the first instance, they are the ones who should be worried about it.â
If we have a joint goal of capturing him or killing him, you'd think the Paks would have an interest in where he is. But today seems to be a day for stoopid remarks...
Mr Jamali said that Pakistan and archrival India had finally overcome more than five decades of animosity and said that he wished his Indian counterpart Atal Behari Vajpayee success in the ongoing national elections so that the recent peace initiatives could flourish. Mr Jamali was speaking at the end of a two-day trip to Thailand that has been overshadowed by the killing of 108 alleged Islamic militants by the Thai police in the countryâs Muslim-dominated south. Mr Jamali said the killings, while regrettable, were an internal matter, and he appeared to back the Thai governmentâs crackdown. âThe death of Muslims is sad, but rule of the law must prevail in the country,â said the Pakistani prime minister. âPakistan itself has suffered terrorism,â he said, citing two attempts on the life of President General Pervez Musharraf last year.
Actually, I wouldn't put the hit attempts on Perv into the category of terrorism, though admittedly they were carried out by terrorist organizations. Bumping off the head of state is an old tradition in failed states worldwide. Shooting up crowds of civilians because of their religion or ethnic background is more in the pure terrorism category, though, and Pakland certainly has enough of that.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 2:13:49 AM ||
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âThe death of Muslims is sad, but rule of the law must prevail in the country,â said the Pakistani prime minister.
#11
Bulldog> Call them bigots, and we don't need to bother making distinctions without a real difference. Racists/chauvinists/fundies -- all of them are apples from the same tree.
#14
Jen> Um, no, no humour was intended. Just a modification of the old 'the apple won't fall far from the tree" expression. If there was a joke in there, I have myself missed it.
#15
Hi everyone, could you please read this article:
ISLAM & HARMING THE INNOCENT..!
As far as the issue of violence, intolerance, and aggression against innocent civilians is concerned, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:
No doubt, aggression against innocent people is a grave sin and a heinous crime, irrespective of the victim's religion, country, or race.
No one is permitted to commit such crime, for Allah, Most High, abhors aggression. Unlike Judaism, Islam does not hold a double-standard policy in safeguarding human rights.
Following, I would like to highlight some relevant Islamic principles based on the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah:
1. Islam Forbids Aggression against Innocent People
Islam does not permit aggression against innocent people, whether the aggression is against life, property, or honor, and this ruling applies to everyone, regardless of post, status and prestige. In Islam, as the stateâs subject is addressed with Islamic teachings, so is the ruler or caliph; he is not allowed to violate people's rights, lives, honor, property, etc.
In the Farewell Pilgrimage, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, declared the principle that people's lives, property, and honor are inviolable until the Day of Judgment. This ruling is not restricted to Muslims; rather, it includes non-Muslims who are not fighting Muslims. Even in case of war, Islam does not permit killing those who are not involved in fighting, such as women, children, the aged, and the monks who confine themselves to worship only.
This shouldnât raise any wonder, for Islam is a religion that prohibits aggression even against animals. Ibn `Umar, may Allah be pleased with them both, quote the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, as saying: "A woman is qualified to enter (Hell) Fire because of a cat which she tied, neither giving it food nor setting it free to eat from the vermin of the earth." (Reported by Al-Bukhari)
If such is Islamic ruling concerning aggressive acts against animals, in fortiori, the punishment is bond to be severe when human being happens to be the victim of aggression, torture and terrorism.
2. Individual Responsibility
In Islam, every one is held accountable for his own acts, not others'. No one bears the consequences of others' faults, even his close relatives. This is the ultimate form of justice, clarified in the Glorious Qur'an, as Allah, Most High, says, "Or hath he not had news of what is in the books of Moses and Abraham who paid his debt: That no laden one shall bear another's load." (An-Najm: 36-38)
Therefore, itâs very disgusting to see some people â who are Muslims by nameâ launching aggression against innocent people and taking them as scapegoats for any disagreement they have with the stateâs authority!! What is the crime of the common people then?! Murder is one of heinous crimes completely abhorred in Islam, to the extent that some Muslim scholars hold the opinion that the repentance of the murderer will not be accepted by Allah, Most High. In this context, we recall the Glorious Qur'anic verse that reads, "Whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankindâ¦" (Al-Ma'idah: 32)
3. Ends Do not Justify Means
In Islam, the notion âEnd justifies the meansâ has no place at all. It is not allowed to attain good aims through evil means. By the same token, alms collected from unlawful avenues are not Halal (lawful). In this context, the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Surely, Allah is Good and never accepts but what is good."
Thereby, in Shariah, with all its sourcesâ the Glorious Qur'an, the Sunnah, consensus of Muslim juristsâ aggression and violation of human rights are completely forbidden.
Besides, it is the duty of the Muslim scholars to do their utmost to guide the perplexed people to the straight and upright path."
Also, we'd like to quote the following Fatwa issued by Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America:
The Islamic position as regards non-Muslims is that they should recognize Allahâs Oneness and Prophet Muhammad as Allahâs Final Prophet. They should accept Islam to live happily and successfully in this world and to be saved in the Hereafter. It is Muslimsâ duty to give them this message clearly, but without any coercion or intolerance. If others accept this message it is good for them, but if they do not accept, Muslims should still treat them with kindness and gentleness and leave the final judgment to Allah.
In our enthusiasm for Daâwah, we should not be intolerant and aggressive towards others, but in our politeness and civility we should also not give up our mission and message. We should not be intimidated to become quiet and we should not feel shy to tell the truth.
We must know that Islam is Allahâs way to salvation. Islamic message is unique, authentic and divine. Islam is for the whole world and all people are invited to accept this message. It is our duty to convey this message in the most beautiful and effective manner. We should be the witnesses of Allah to the world by our words and our deeds to all human beings.
#16
Gentle, we've heard this lip service paid over and over to Islam being a "religion of peace" but no-one in the West is buying it.
Perhaps one or 2 voices preach peace, but the rest of the imams and clerics preach murderous jihad in Arabic to the faithful.
It's good to know that there are Muslim clerics who preach peace, but the War on Terror won't be won until they all do.
Until then, the fact remains that terror attacks are done by Muslim terrorists, most of whom actually take or claim credit for them "in the name of Allah."
As a Christian, I will pray for you to convert to Christianity.
As Christ said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh to the Father but through me."
Under the Christian Faith, you as a woman will be treated equally with men.
Again from the Bible, "In Christ, there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, slave nor free."
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 10:54 Comments ||
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#17
by the way - learn how to condense, post once, post links, post articulate realistic arguments
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 10:56 Comments ||
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#20
Yeah, Anti-Sense, watching 3,000 of your civilian citizens get murdered on live TV in an hour and a half by radical Muslim terrorists will "mire one in prejudice."
Speaking of which, who's mired in prejudice--the American civilians (Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists and atheists) who were living peacefully together in a free society and who were slaughtered on 9/11 or those 19 Islamist jihadi hijackers from Islamofascist countries who murdered the "non-believers" who were residents of what they deem the "Great Satan?"
As Christ also said, "Remove the log from your own eye before you take out the splinter from your neighbor's."
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 11:33 Comments ||
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#22
Anti-Sense you bring a whole new meaning to the term 'racist'.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/02/2004 11:49 Comments ||
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#23
Antiwar,
Thanks for backing me up.
May I please ask you a question?
Why are the poeple here so prejudiced against Islam?
How do americans, in general, think?
Do they agree with the poeple here?
Please do answer.
Oh, and how come you believe me?
Do you know any muslims, or just about Islam?
Thanks for your time.
Frank: Sorry about pasting the link twice.
#24
Gentle, you are an idiot.
If you read this site regularly, you'd know that NO ONE here agrees with Antiwar.
She's not even American!
Do you want the Truth and want to hear how real Americans feel about Islamism or do you want some simpleton telling you what you want to hear about your religion of poison (i.e. Sunni Waahab)?
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 11:58 Comments ||
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#27
Fuck you, Anti-Sense.
(I have a shelf-full of books about Islam and I can tell that the other posters here are equally knowledgeable, maybe more so. What Fred alone doesn't know about the Global War on IslamoFascism isn't worth knowing!)
Bite me, Antiwar! Hope you get some awful disease, too!
You're not American, but you're not Aussie, either.
I think you're Canadian.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 12:06 Comments ||
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#28
Thanks Anti-war.
P.S. I like your politness. I don't feel uncomfortable while reading your comments, like I do with some of the others.
Please don't let them get to you.
Thanks
P.P.S. I like your nickname too.
War is an ugly, horrible thing.
Keep going
#29
Yeah, whatever, "Gentle."
Meanwhile, if there's another attack on the U.S. by Islamist terrorists, you'd better have your bomb shelter built in the UAE!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 12:12 Comments ||
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#31
Jen, dear, why are you so angry?
Anti-war doesn't deserve this language.
I can't understand all this hatred. It isn't right.
You poeple have stopped seeing us as humans, you're demonizing us.
No woder your soldiers did what they did.
They have been tought to think of us as "THE ENEMY".
Well guess what?
We're humans too.
This isn't right Jen. It just isn't.
Have you ever watched Dark Angel?
They were brought up to believe that the outside world is BAD.
I think the same thing has happened to you.
I suggest you pay a visit to the Gulf.
P.S. Anti-war: I've been to Australia and it is very nice. Most of the poeple were nice too. There were a lot of asians though. I hadn't really expected that.
#32
You are the Enemy.
You attacked us on 9/11/01--it was an act of war.
You demonized us first as the "Great Satan."
We are at war.
Get used to it.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 12:20 Comments ||
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#33
Gentle and anti-reason,
Be good little girls and have your mutual-admiration-fest/head-in-the-sand tea party somewhere else. The grownups are having a serious discussion.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 12:25 Comments ||
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#36
Yes, and there would be quite a few more Asians there if pacifists like you would have been in charge during WWII. Oh, but that's right, war is always bad, no matter the reason.
#37
No Jen.
We did NOT bomb you on 9/11.
You might as well know that what muslims here believe is that that operation was set up by a group that framed Islam.
We, here, believe that the whole thing was a set up.
We do not believe in violence. We do not think that what happened was right.
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 12:29 Comments ||
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#39
Think what you like, honey, but build that shelter and pray to your moon good that there's not another attack on America by your Muslim "brothers" or we'll be using the entire Arabian peninsula to park our SUVS.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 12:30 Comments ||
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#40
"You might as well know that what muslims here believe is that that operation was set up by a group that framed Islam. We, here, believe that the whole thing was a set up."
Ooooh, let me guess: Zionist conspirators?
Posted by: Dave D. ||
05/02/2004 12:31 Comments ||
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#44
Antiwar, I live in Texas and here, we've got folks that make me look reasonable and even-tempered!
(The other 49 states have 'em, too. They're called patriots.)
If there's another IslamoNazi attack on this country, it won't be pretty for the Middle East.
What I'm saying to Miss "Gentle Whiner" is extremely useful--it's called a "word to the wise."
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 12:34 Comments ||
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#45
Why don't YOU ask survivors of Nazi concentration or Japanese POW camps if they would have preferred that unconditional pacifists like your self had persuaded the Allies to roll over rather than fight.
#46
hi antiwar! good to see you again ima been reading about mucki concern about kindergarten stoining and random chile killin ima sure youre coming out foursquare agin that peace be witha you and your asparagus btw take a hit offen boron my new technically cats bong
#49
just dead Jooooos, but that's OK with you, Antiwar asswipe
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 12:42 Comments ||
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#50
"Gentle," you should change your name to Moron.
You really are dumber than a box of hammers!
As if any Texans prostituting themselves for $ in your Islamic lockdown country would tell you about the real feelings of Americans back home...!
Here we go again: Here's you-- " I want to know. I don't want to know."
And then when we tell you the truth, you just go, "La-la-la-la. Talk to the burka, 'cause the head ain't listening."
I give up!
You and that idiot AntiBrain have a nice time.
You are a couple of world class bubbleheads!
Are either of you blonde?
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 12:44 Comments ||
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#54
Talking to Gentle and antireason is a waste of time and bandwidth. Like I said, the children's table is down the hall -- run along now, kiddies. Go talk about happy rainbow land where you never have to fight to defend yourself or those you love, and where wonderful peaceful Islamists would never do anything as uncouth as force a woman to wear a burka or fly planes into office buildings.
#57
Anti-war : are you reading this?
Hello AR!
They've already checked and told you that I am from the U.A.E.
Tell me, is this how you also CONCLUDED that Islam means terrorism?
'coz you sure have proven my point!
#58
Okay, okay, okay everyone, now that we've had a mutual exchange of blunt instruments and chest thumping --
Gentle: the 9/11 attacks were not a "framing" of innocent Muslims. There is incontrovertible evidence on this, a veritable mountain of data, that demonstrates very simply --
1) the attack was staged by al-Qaeda.
2) of the 19 men who attacked us, all were Muslim, and 15 were Saudi citizens
3) the attack was premeditated and designed to strike fear into Americans.
4) the attack followed several other attacks by al-Qaeda over the years, including attacks on our embassies in Africa, on a barracks in Saudi Arabia, and on a naval vessel in Yemen.
Now, Gentle, those are the facts, and they're incontrovertible.
Most Americans don't hate all Muslims. Most Americans hate those Muslims who attacked us, who support these attacks, and support more attacks like this. al-Qaeda and related organizations can be considered to be of a political groups that we call "islamofascist": Muslims who use their religious faith combined with a fascist ideology, and who believe that it is right and proper to kill all the infidels, drive them from the world, and subject the world (both ours and yours) to their particular interpretation of Islam.
Now if you agree with them, you're our enemy. If you don't agree with them, you can be our friend, or you and we can agree to leave each other alone. But if you're not our enemy, you had better not aid, shelter, and consort with those who are our avowed enemies. We tend not to like that. We get angry. You won't like us when we're angry.
Americans don't want to rule the world. We're happy to get along with folks. We have our own outlook on the world, of course, and that might clash with yours. We can work that out. But if your co-religionists decide that the only good Americans are dead ones, rest assured we're going to fight back.
It's simple, Gentle: you can be a pious, devout, good Muslim and get along with us just fine. But you can't get along with us if you're an Islamofascist. We make a distinction between the two. If you don't and consider "good pious Muslim" and "Islamofascist" to be the same, then you've got trouble ahead.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 13:04 Comments ||
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#59
Antisemite--
You can dish it out, but you can't take it, can you? Let's face it, you just love those jihadi sites--you're not "anti-war," you just don't like actual live Jews unless they're pro-Arafat. Why don't you ask Gentle about the state of religious freedom in her country? Don't you think it's a little odd that she denies that Islamonazi pieces of shit planes into the WTC, or is that just another Jewish conspiracy story that you believe in too, along with the other fairy tales to which you subscribe?
Most Americans would like to get along with others. We don't want to put our Army into a dozen fights around the world -- it leaves us with war dead, and we don't like seeing brave, good Americans dead.
However -- we will defend ourselves, and when we do we're ferocious. You've seen evidence of that in the past hundred years. Ask your grandfather, he probably fought with us in the Pacific.
For some reason you've bought into the ideas of the liberal left, and there isn't enough space or time for me to talk you down from that. While it might be hard for you to believe this, there is no evil cabal, no conglomeration of oil, industry and the Trilateral Commission, and no conspiracy. George Bush is not Hitler, and it is insulting (not to mention ignorant in the extreme) to claim otherwise.
Americans generally don't want war, but we also don't back down from a fight. al Qaeda brought us a fight, and now they have one. Saddam was (in the end) in the way of our winning our fight with al Qaeda and their supporters, so he had to go. Most Americans understand that Saddam was evil, so there are no tears for removing him.
Most Americans understand something that you seem to have missed: Saddam was a creature of his own making. We didn't make him, Rumsfeld's handshake didn't make him, and even the French/Russian/UN conspiracy didn't make him. Saddam was just plain evil. We got rid of him. Good, score one for us.
Most Americans also understand what I wrote to Gentle: that there is a confrontation between the western world and the Islamofascist one. We're going to win that because we have to: the notion that America would become an Islamofascist state is unthinkable. Most regular readers of Rantburg see this confrontation clearly. There is a war here, and while we might prefer not to fight it, fight it we must.
You who claim to be anti-war (noble in the abstract) need to see that there are times when war is the least unacceptable option. This is one of those times.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 13:20 Comments ||
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#67
Gentle/Antiwar, you can't be two people. How is possible to get your heads up the same a*sehole, (Allan's), at the same time? You must be the same schizlamazoid. (Please note, new word in Rantburg lexicon, Mr Fred, I hope). Please, BTW, consider editing out this happy-crap from the teen-agers, however cute they look.
#70
In response to Gentle's question, What does Islamofascist mean?, here's an answer:
Islamofascism is the combination of militant, intolerant Islam with fascist ideology. The original Ba'ath party was the essence of this: the founders borrowed liberally from the Italian Fascist Party manifesto in their original documents.
This ideology uses extreme nationalism, belief in the state as a manifestation of the people or the manifestation of God's will, belief (whether driven by religion or ethnocentricism) that those "right-believers" in the state deserve to be seen as the righteous inheritors of the earth, and that those who are not not of the state (e.g., not of the right religion, race or ethnicity) are less than fully human, and therefore deserve no consideration, have no rights, and may be exterminated.
It follows that Islamfascism can be more secular, as the Ba'ath party is, or extremely religious, as al Qaeda is. The Islamic Brotherhood, the Muslim Brotherhood organizations, the Ba'ath party, al Qaeda, the Taliban, and numerous other organizations in the Muslim world meet this definition.
Islamofascism is extremely intolerant: you are either a right believer or you are sub-human. It is also violent, since it believes that the righteous have not only the right but the duty to remove the sub-humans from the earth.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 13:28 Comments ||
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#71
It's just that you are in denial/don't care about the plans of Arafat, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc, for the Jews of Israel. If those Jews were all murdered, and they would be if your ignorant Chomskyite plans were actually implemented, then you would suddenly be sad--because you like dead Jews just fine. But it doesn't mean you know what the fuck you're talking about.
#72
Steve, I think she's just playing dumb.
She admitted to being a Waahab herself and she should know all about IslamoFascism.
(That is, if they let the wimmenfolk hear the "good parts" of the sermon at the mosque, which I doubt.)
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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#73
And Antisemite, I notice you are full of praise for Gentle even after she's spouted her ridiculous 9-11 conspiracy talk. I assume you believe that, too.
#74
Antiwar: while you may not believe this, there are relatively few Jews who are not believers in the state of Israel. Certainly in America a large majority of Jews believe that Israel has a right to exist not just as a matter of international law but also as a matter of religious faith.
Also, I'm of the belief that whenever I encounter a person who claims repeatedly that they're not "anti-Jewish", but rather "anti-Zionist", that person is usually both, and are merely dissembling in order to avoid being properly labeled and tagged.
There's no doubt that certain actions taken by Israel and Israelis over the last half-century have been wrong. But few Americans question Israel's right to exist. Those who do are correctly labeled anti-Zionist, and (in my experience) just about everyone of those is also anti-Jewish.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 13:34 Comments ||
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#75
Jen, you are logged in favourites as a Rhodesian. Wish there were more of you.
#76
Stop being idiots, all of you.
It is only natural that I don't understand a word in english.
IT IS NOT MY FIRST LANGUAGE!
Besides, no muslim is an IslamoFascist.
It simply goes against everything we believe in.
No human is better than another, except by his piety.
No human is an animal.
Even animals may not be starved, tortured or killed for sport.
Not even when they are seen as filthy, and bad!
(In Islam)
#77
Stop being idiots, all of you.
It is only natural that I don't understand a word in english.
IT IS NOT MY FIRST LANGUAGE!
Besides, no muslim is an IslamoFascist.
It simply goes against everything we believe in.
No human is better than another, except by his piety.
No human is an animal.
Even animals may not be starved, tortured or killed for sport.
Not even when they are seen as filthy, and bad!
(In Islam)
#80
Zionism has brought nothing but tribulation to the Jews
Oh, Antisemite is now going to tell the Jews what's good for them, just as Europeans (again) and Muslims (again) do all the time. Both groups love every form of nationalism but Jewish (and American, bien sur!) nationalism, and both have a history of killing Jews. It's just a coincidence, of course.
Tell you what, Antisemite, give your house back to the aborigines, and then maybe people on the board will take you seriously.
#85
gentle? what a new troll trying pass of islam as peacful?? and i wouldn't be to happy to have anti-war back you up...the majority of her/him/it's post's are idiotic to say the least.
Posted by: Dan ||
05/02/2004 14:14 Comments ||
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#86
I bought my house I'm paying a mortgage on it. Aboriginal people never lived in it
It's on stolen land, Antisemite. When are you giving it back?
#88
gentle hear what steve is saying...it is true and most americans understand this...
not all muslims are good just like not all christians are good. there is a disticntion...but it seems muslims cannot make that distinction when it is about a fellow muslim.
Posted by: Dan ||
05/02/2004 14:18 Comments ||
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#92
77 Stop being idiots, all of you.
It is only natural that I don't understand a word in english.
IT IS NOT MY FIRST LANGUAGE!
Besides, no muslim is an IslamoFascist.
It simply goes against everything we believe in.
No human is better than another, except by his piety.
No human is an animal.
Even animals may not be starved, tortured or killed for sport.
Not even when they are seen as filthy, and bad
Your are truly an idiot if you believe this load of crap.. Come onâ¦.mulsims can barely tolerate sects within their own religion let alone infidels (at least as stated by the quran)..if it werenât for joooss and the west you would be killing each otherâ¦oh wait you are already killing each otherâ¦.
From algreia to pakland it happens all the time. If a muslim does not follow the quran explicitly they are targets from fanatics (islamofascists)..how do explain the slit throats of innocents villages in Algeria?
Posted by: Dan ||
05/02/2004 14:25 Comments ||
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#93
Is there anything funnier than a Bourka babe on the net?
#96
Holy Schitskis! I have been gone for a week and a half in New Mexico and Texas, and have noticed that the comment wars have been going on well in my absence. Good work, Rantburgers!
Fred, Frank G. tells me that you had an operation and that you are OK and are recovering. Wishing you a steady and speedy recovery.
It seems to me that Islam is in need of a Reformation like Christianity was hundreds of years ago. Well, they better hurry it up. Actions speak louder than words, and the "moderate" muslims better take over the religion before the extremists do, or the extremist will take everybody down with them. If moderate Muslims in Europe and in the US do not speak up, the extremists will be cleaned out without them, and alot of innocent or rather silent Muslims will be hurt in the process. It will not be pretty.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
05/02/2004 14:30 Comments ||
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#101
Anti-IQ, you really do have sh*t for brains!
BMN nailed you and you're either too stupid or too stubborn to get it or both!
British settlers who landed on Australia as POMEs were invaders, Birdbrain!
They took the land from the Abos!
Just like we Yanks took it from the American Indians.
Ask around.
Anti--or should we call you Special Ed?, be sure and always wear your helmet and be on time when the special little bus comes to take you to Special School!
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 14:41 Comments ||
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#102
Aboriginal people are not forced to stand at checkpoints have their homes bulldozed etc etc
No, of course not, most of their ancestors were killed and virtually all the rest moved to distant reservations years ago.
What happens if they start bombing your neighborhood? I can hardly wait to see!
They are Australian citizens
You mean there are no Arab citizens of Israel? I didn't know that! How many Jewish citizens of the UAE, or any other Arab country, are there?
I and my family are migrants not invaders.
That's an interesting distinction, Antisemite. Did the aborigines share it?
Actually I am really only interested in your answer to the question above: do you endorse "Gentle's" (what is it with you liars, anyway--your names are the opposite of what you actally believe) fanciful 9-11 conspiracy theory, or not?
#103
The prophet Mo, fake. Islam, fake. mullahs lecturing the faithful, fake. Mecca, fake. Medina, fake. The islamic holy sites, fake. The toothy smiles and batted eyelashes of good manners, fake. Gentle, fake?
Islamofacist, real and they'll kill you and praise allah (fake).
Antiwar, pray for peace. But know this, until the jihadies are defeated there will be no peace. They wont just go away and you can thank those like Gentle, who are as sheep, for breeding them.
#106
Yeah, well my family came here from Italy via England, but the Indians were here long before they were.
It's called the "white man's burden."--Check it out, bee-atch!
And I don't like to ruin good tea with whiskey!
That booze is killing what few brain cells you have, dear.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 14:50 Comments ||
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#107
Gentle explain to me why 90% of the people killed in Terrorist acts in the last 40 years were killed by Muslems?
Islam may be the"Religion of Peace"(LOL),but it sure has a whole lot of cold blooded,murdering adherents,and the rest are enablers, supporters, and apologists.
Anti-semite,give it up your comment the other day says exactly what you are:(paraphrase)"Ofcourse it is ok to stone Kindergarten Jews,after all the will grow-up to be Jew Soldiers"
That one sentence brands you as the bigot you are.
By the way since Paleo children are taught from the cradle to hate and kill Jews does that mean we get to kill Paleo babbies?
#108
Gentle,
The answer is very simple. Stop killing and enslaving people and Westeners will believe all the song and dance of Islam being a religion of peace and tolerance and that above all, it abhorrs killing. I doubt very much that the people being killed by muslims in the Phillipine, Indonesia, Nigeria, Mauritania, East Timor, Zanzibar, Algeria, Spain, Israel,Sub-Sahara, Coptics in Egypt, the Assyrians in Iraq, Christians in Pakistan and Bangladesh, India, Westeners in Saudi Arabia and in any muslim country, Sudan etc, etc, will believe you just because you cite them some verses from the Koran.
#109
Wack-a-Troll Central (Oooh-ooh! I wanna play! I wanna play!!)
"Gentle" says (#61): Â "We have religous freedom in our country BMN. Why ask Anti-war to ask me? She already knows." Uh-hem. How does "Gentle" know anything about what Antiwar "knows" since this--supposedly--is their "first" contact with each other? (ha-ha-ha)
Antiwar and Gentle: If you EVER want to get real, read Steve White's posts. It's all there.
But since you don't, you can get real with these links instead:
Operatives Gentle and Antiwar: Stop trying to steal bandwidth, and "influence" people with lies, and comment on the above. No one will take you seriously unless you OPENLY CONDEMN what should be condemned by your false cult-religion, such as the above and:
Lest we forget: Courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"â¢.
The moslem lady in the following photos was treated very "gently," courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"⢠as described in Thousands of Women Killed for Family "Honor" Her husband cut out her tongue, gouged out her eyes and cut off her nose and ears. No Islamic Fundamentalism here, folks.
Zahida before her husband's kind "makeover."
Or how about this "kindness and correction" of these women by religious police. (I dunno, they all look kind of "Moslem" to me.) These photos are caught from a video film that has been filmed by RAWA on August 26, 2001 in Kabul using a hidden camera. It shows two Taliban from department of Amro bil mahroof (Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, Taliban religious police) beating a woman in public because she has dared to remove her burqa in public.
If that's not enough, we can always review the unprovoked killing of Christians in Indonesia, just because they are Christians, courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"â¢. This little 9 month-old baby girl was murdered by Islamic Fundamentalists (i.e. Islamofascists) along with burning down the oldest church in the region.
And while you're at it, Gentle and Antiwar, please also comment on why your Islamofascist mullahs tell your young men that they will be given 72 virgins to f-ck for all eternity, if they commit suicide and blow innocent people to bits, and why, if a muslim woman does the same thing, she gets to be "married" to one man in Islam-ick "paradise." And I still want to know where all those "paradise" virgins and marriageable young men come from. Are they created especially for the purpose by (spit) your god, the Islamic "Allah," god of war? Are the virgins, and husbands-in-reserve, automatons? Or do they enter into these "sex-for-suicide-" jihad pacts willingly?
(P.S. to my fellow Rantburgians: It's not difficult for people to send e-mails to their "friends" in other counties, and then have those friends post them, so it looks like it's being posted from somewhere else. Just a thought regarding clones like "Gentle" and "Antiwar." Either that, or they took the same drugs.)
Troll-hunting tip courtesy of ex-lib: The Textual Terminator of Islamofascists World Wide .
#111
apparently the Islamic Heroes⢠have trouble satisfying one woman, which is why they're so sensitive, worrying about them straying....Masterbating Race indeed
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 18:14 Comments ||
Top||
#112
They live in a fantasy world if they think they'd be able to take care of 72 women, even in their "heaven." These dickless wonders couldn't even "take care of" themselves 72 times. Anywhere.
They're such useless, insignificant losers, it's no wonder they're so willing to kill themselves. They'd have to raise their IQs 100 points just to get up to "maroon."
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
05/02/2004 18:25 Comments ||
Top||
#113
Geez this thread is a scream! Barbara - you rock!
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 19:36 Comments ||
Top||
#118
This is why I love RB so much - the snarkiness is both theraputic and devastating... as Twain said:
"Power, money, persuasion, supplication, persecution -- these can lift at a colossal humbug -- push it a little -- weaken it a little over the course of a century; but only laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."
of course, he also said:
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."
#119
I'm afraid the stupid level drops quantitatively every time AntiWar and Gentle type...rest assured PD, you ain't there ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
05/02/2004 19:50 Comments ||
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#120
Mebbe this hits the spot for blogging - for it's the responses that teach... Sadly, though, I don't think our screechers actually have this much sense since they are merely "mouthing" DUmmy Talking Points without much consideration:
"Learn as much by writing as by reading."
-Lord Acton
#121
Damn! What a great thread! Snarkery and smart-assery abound! Yee-hah!
Welcome back, AP, by the way!
Posted by: Dar ||
05/02/2004 20:38 Comments ||
Top||
#122
Not that Iâm certain it will work, but to attempt a little assist here. Ex-lib writes "If that's not enough, we can always review the unprovoked killing of Christians in Indonesia, just because they are Christians, courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"â¢. This little 9 month-old baby girl was murdered by Islamic Fundamentalists (i.e. Islamofascists) along with burning down the oldest church in the region." I think the server to the pictures on that site may be overloaded, or the directional string is wrong. Hereâs an attempt to reload the church picture and an alternate picture of the church from a different server site:
This is an attempt to reload the picture of the baby, which (in any case) is at this link.And, if it is a server overload issue, you can see Googleâs cached page with the sad picture of the murdered baby here.
#125
raptor - LOL! We should call you sniper. Talk about taking down (both) your opponents with just one shot.
Posted by: b ||
05/02/2004 21:07 Comments ||
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#126
Hi everyone, could you please read this article:
ISLAM & HARMING THE INNOCENT..!
As far as the issue of violence, intolerance, and aggression against innocent civilians is concerned, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:
No doubt, aggression against innocent people is a grave sin and a heinous crime, irrespective of the victim's religion, country, or race.
No one is permitted to commit such crime, for Allah, Most High, abhors aggression. Unlike Judaism, Islam does not hold a double-standard policy in safeguarding human rights.
Following, I would like to highlight some relevant Islamic principles based on the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah:
1. Islam Forbids Aggression against Innocent People
Islam does not permit aggression against innocent people, whether the aggression is against life, property, or honor, and this ruling applies to everyone, regardless of post, status and prestige. In Islam, as the stateâs subject is addressed with Islamic teachings, so is the ruler or caliph; he is not allowed to violate people's rights, lives, honor, property, etc.
In the Farewell Pilgrimage, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, declared the principle that people's lives, property, and honor are inviolable until the Day of Judgment. This ruling is not restricted to Muslims; rather, it includes non-Muslims who are not fighting Muslims. Even in case of war, Islam does not permit killing those who are not involved in fighting, such as women, children, the aged, and the monks who confine themselves to worship only.
This shouldnât raise any wonder, for Islam is a religion that prohibits aggression even against animals. Ibn `Umar, may Allah be pleased with them both, quote the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, as saying: "A woman is qualified to enter (Hell) Fire because of a cat which she tied, neither giving it food nor setting it free to eat from the vermin of the earth." (Reported by Al-Bukhari)
If such is Islamic ruling concerning aggressive acts against animals, in fortiori, the punishment is bond to be severe when human being happens to be the victim of aggression, torture and terrorism.
2. Individual Responsibility
In Islam, every one is held accountable for his own acts, not others'. No one bears the consequences of others' faults, even his close relatives. This is the ultimate form of justice, clarified in the Glorious Qur'an, as Allah, Most High, says, "Or hath he not had news of what is in the books of Moses and Abraham who paid his debt: That no laden one shall bear another's load." (An-Najm: 36-38)
Therefore, itâs very disgusting to see some people â who are Muslims by nameâ launching aggression against innocent people and taking them as scapegoats for any disagreement they have with the stateâs authority!! What is the crime of the common people then?! Murder is one of heinous crimes completely abhorred in Islam, to the extent that some Muslim scholars hold the opinion that the repentance of the murderer will not be accepted by Allah, Most High. In this context, we recall the Glorious Qur'anic verse that reads, "Whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankindâ¦" (Al-Ma'idah: 32)
3. Ends Do not Justify Means
In Islam, the notion âEnd justifies the meansâ has no place at all. It is not allowed to attain good aims through evil means. By the same token, alms collected from unlawful avenues are not Halal (lawful). In this context, the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Surely, Allah is Good and never accepts but what is good."
Thereby, in Shariah, with all its sourcesâ the Glorious Qur'an, the Sunnah, consensus of Muslim juristsâ aggression and violation of human rights are completely forbidden.
Besides, it is the duty of the Muslim scholars to do their utmost to guide the perplexed people to the straight and upright path."
Also, we'd like to quote the following Fatwa issued by Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America:
The Islamic position as regards non-Muslims is that they should recognize Allahâs Oneness and Prophet Muhammad as Allahâs Final Prophet. They should accept Islam to live happily and successfully in this world and to be saved in the Hereafter. It is Muslimsâ duty to give them this message clearly, but without any coercion or intolerance. If others accept this message it is good for them, but if they do not accept, Muslims should still treat them with kindness and gentleness and leave the final judgment to Allah.
In our enthusiasm for Daâwah, we should not be intolerant and aggressive towards others, but in our politeness and civility we should also not give up our mission and message. We should not be intimidated to become quiet and we should not feel shy to tell the truth.
We must know that Islam is Allahâs way to salvation. Islamic message is unique, authentic and divine. Islam is for the whole world and all people are invited to accept this message. It is our duty to convey this message in the most beautiful and effective manner. We should be the witnesses of Allah to the world by our words and our deeds to all human beings.
#127
Hi everyone, could you please read this article:
ISLAM & HARMING THE INNOCENT..!
As far as the issue of violence, intolerance, and aggression against innocent civilians is concerned, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:
No doubt, aggression against innocent people is a grave sin and a heinous crime, irrespective of the victim's religion, country, or race.
No one is permitted to commit such crime, for Allah, Most High, abhors aggression. Unlike Judaism, Islam does not hold a double-standard policy in safeguarding human rights.
Following, I would like to highlight some relevant Islamic principles based on the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah:
1. Islam Forbids Aggression against Innocent People
Islam does not permit aggression against innocent people, whether the aggression is against life, property, or honor, and this ruling applies to everyone, regardless of post, status and prestige. In Islam, as the stateâs subject is addressed with Islamic teachings, so is the ruler or caliph; he is not allowed to violate people's rights, lives, honor, property, etc.
In the Farewell Pilgrimage, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, declared the principle that people's lives, property, and honor are inviolable until the Day of Judgment. This ruling is not restricted to Muslims; rather, it includes non-Muslims who are not fighting Muslims. Even in case of war, Islam does not permit killing those who are not involved in fighting, such as women, children, the aged, and the monks who confine themselves to worship only.
This shouldnât raise any wonder, for Islam is a religion that prohibits aggression even against animals. Ibn `Umar, may Allah be pleased with them both, quote the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, as saying: "A woman is qualified to enter (Hell) Fire because of a cat which she tied, neither giving it food nor setting it free to eat from the vermin of the earth." (Reported by Al-Bukhari)
If such is Islamic ruling concerning aggressive acts against animals, in fortiori, the punishment is bond to be severe when human being happens to be the victim of aggression, torture and terrorism.
2. Individual Responsibility
In Islam, every one is held accountable for his own acts, not others'. No one bears the consequences of others' faults, even his close relatives. This is the ultimate form of justice, clarified in the Glorious Qur'an, as Allah, Most High, says, "Or hath he not had news of what is in the books of Moses and Abraham who paid his debt: That no laden one shall bear another's load." (An-Najm: 36-38)
Therefore, itâs very disgusting to see some people â who are Muslims by nameâ launching aggression against innocent people and taking them as scapegoats for any disagreement they have with the stateâs authority!! What is the crime of the common people then?! Murder is one of heinous crimes completely abhorred in Islam, to the extent that some Muslim scholars hold the opinion that the repentance of the murderer will not be accepted by Allah, Most High. In this context, we recall the Glorious Qur'anic verse that reads, "Whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankindâ¦" (Al-Ma'idah: 32)
3. Ends Do not Justify Means
In Islam, the notion âEnd justifies the meansâ has no place at all. It is not allowed to attain good aims through evil means. By the same token, alms collected from unlawful avenues are not Halal (lawful). In this context, the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Surely, Allah is Good and never accepts but what is good."
Thereby, in Shariah, with all its sourcesâ the Glorious Qur'an, the Sunnah, consensus of Muslim juristsâ aggression and violation of human rights are completely forbidden.
Besides, it is the duty of the Muslim scholars to do their utmost to guide the perplexed people to the straight and upright path."
Also, we'd like to quote the following Fatwa issued by Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America:
The Islamic position as regards non-Muslims is that they should recognize Allahâs Oneness and Prophet Muhammad as Allahâs Final Prophet. They should accept Islam to live happily and successfully in this world and to be saved in the Hereafter. It is Muslimsâ duty to give them this message clearly, but without any coercion or intolerance. If others accept this message it is good for them, but if they do not accept, Muslims should still treat them with kindness and gentleness and leave the final judgment to Allah.
In our enthusiasm for Daâwah, we should not be intolerant and aggressive towards others, but in our politeness and civility we should also not give up our mission and message. We should not be intimidated to become quiet and we should not feel shy to tell the truth.
We must know that Islam is Allahâs way to salvation. Islamic message is unique, authentic and divine. Islam is for the whole world and all people are invited to accept this message. It is our duty to convey this message in the most beautiful and effective manner. We should be the witnesses of Allah to the world by our words and our deeds to all human beings.
#130
Thanks Anti-war.
P.S. I like your politness. I don't feel uncomfortable while reading your comments, like I do with some of the others.
Please don't let them get to you.
Thanks
P.P.S. I like your nickname too.
War is an ugly, horrible thing.
Keep going
#131
Thanks Anti-war.
P.S. I like your politness. I don't feel uncomfortable while reading your comments, like I do with some of the others.
Please don't let them get to you.
Thanks
P.P.S. I like your nickname too.
War is an ugly, horrible thing.
Keep going
#132
Jen, dear, why are you so angry?
Anti-war doesn't deserve this language.
I can't understand all this hatred. It isn't right.
You poeple have stopped seeing us as humans, you're demonizing us.
No woder your soldiers did what they did.
They have been tought to think of us as "THE ENEMY".
Well guess what?
We're humans too.
This isn't right Jen. It just isn't.
Have you ever watched Dark Angel?
They were brought up to believe that the outside world is BAD.
I think the same thing has happened to you.
I suggest you pay a visit to the Gulf.
P.S. Anti-war: I've been to Australia and it is very nice. Most of the poeple were nice too. There were a lot of asians though. I hadn't really expected that.
#133
Jen, dear, why are you so angry?
Anti-war doesn't deserve this language.
I can't understand all this hatred. It isn't right.
You poeple have stopped seeing us as humans, you're demonizing us.
No woder your soldiers did what they did.
They have been tought to think of us as "THE ENEMY".
Well guess what?
We're humans too.
This isn't right Jen. It just isn't.
Have you ever watched Dark Angel?
They were brought up to believe that the outside world is BAD.
I think the same thing has happened to you.
I suggest you pay a visit to the Gulf.
P.S. Anti-war: I've been to Australia and it is very nice. Most of the poeple were nice too. There were a lot of asians though. I hadn't really expected that.
#134
No Jen.
We did NOT bomb you on 9/11.
You might as well know that what muslims here believe is that that operation was set up by a group that framed Islam.
We, here, believe that the whole thing was a set up.
We do not believe in violence. We do not think that what happened was right.
#135
No Jen.
We did NOT bomb you on 9/11.
You might as well know that what muslims here believe is that that operation was set up by a group that framed Islam.
We, here, believe that the whole thing was a set up.
We do not believe in violence. We do not think that what happened was right.
#140
Anti-war : are you reading this?
Hello AR!
They've already checked and told you that I am from the U.A.E.
Tell me, is this how you also CONCLUDED that Islam means terrorism?
'coz you sure have proven my point!
#141
Anti-war : are you reading this?
Hello AR!
They've already checked and told you that I am from the U.A.E.
Tell me, is this how you also CONCLUDED that Islam means terrorism?
'coz you sure have proven my point!
#147
Gentle I do not know why they are so prejudiced. I am Australian and a lot of them and Americans are prejudiced. I once knew one Muslim person at work but he doesn't work there anymore. I also know about Islam from reading about it in books and the internet. I do not think all Americans are prejudiced. Maybe the people here are just not well informed I don't know.
#149
Gentle Jen is a sad individual she claims to be Christian(ie a follower of Christ)but I don't ever remember Jesus telling to fight wars etc.Yes there are a lot of Asians here.
#150
Jen if you don't have anything useful to say be quiet please. Docob war IS bad maybe you could ask a homeless Iraqi with no family left as they have all been killed if war is good or not.
#155
Steve Zionism has brought nothing but tribulation to the Jews. Many people may be antisemitic as well as antizionist but they are 2 different things.
#156
BMN please drink in moderation maybe you are intoxicated as you are making no sense(again) I bought my house I'm paying a mortgage on it. Aboriginal people never lived in it. You are just inventing facetious arguments to sustain yourself.
#158
BMN your arguments are facetious to say the least. Aboriginal people are not forced to stand at checkpoints have their homes bulldozed etc etc. They are Australian citizens. I and my family are migrants not invaders. HUGE difference. Anyone should be able to live where they like but no one should invade.
#159
Jen MY family are Irish we emigtated to Australia. Put the kettle on make a cup of tea and put some whiskey in it just a tad you don't want to get drunk right sip it slowly. Right I'm going now so goodnight it's nearly 3am over here.
Seven rebels have been killed and one detained in a search in the mountains in southwest Chechnya, a source in the Urus-Martan interior department told Interfax on Saturday. "Special troops and the personnel of a south Russian police department besieged a rebel group during a search effort and tried to detain them. The rebels offered resistance and seven of them were killed at the scene. They are now being identified," the source said. Another rebel was detained during the pursuit of the remainder of the group. He is being interrogated to establish his accomplices. The source said two servicemen were slightly injured in the clash.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 2:01:51 AM ||
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A businessman from the rebellious Georgian region of Ajaria has pledged his support for Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili in Tbilisi. Aleksandre Davitadze is said to have been close to Ajarian leader Aslan Abashidze, and to have financed an armed militia, before switching sides.
I'd guess Abashidze stock is at a 52-week low...
Georgia and Ajaria stood on the brink of conflict after Mr Saakashvili was denied entry into Ajaria last month. Mr Davitadze is the latest of a number of Ajarians to defect in recent weeks. Local media reports described him as a prominent businessman who had controlled a group of 300 or 400 armed men since 1992.
They mean he's a warlord...
Mr Saakashvili was shown on television welcoming him to Tbilisi. "I simply want Ajarians to see that such a man is here now," he said. "I also want to say that virtually all the main armed units are now on this side of Choloki (a point on the administrative border between Ajaria and the rest of Georgia)." Mr Davitadze was quoted by the Itar-Tass news agency as saying that most Ajarians supported the Georgian central authorities. The head of Ajaria's environmental police agency, Colonel Anzor Dumbadze, was also reported to have arrived in Tbilisi on Saturday, after switching sides. Tass said about 50 members of the Ajarian security forces had left the region before the end of April. Mr Saakashvili stressed at his meeting with Mr Davitadze that only Ajarians who had committed treason, used arms against Georgia, or attacked opposition rallies, would be prosecuted. Mr Abashidze says the government in Tbilisi wants to oust him.
Sounds like they're going about it pretty well, too...
For his part, Mr Saakashvili has alleged that Mr Abashidze is planning to bring in mercenaries from Chechnya and Ukraine to fight on his side. Correspondents say Mr Abashidze runs Ajaria as his private fiefdom.
Actually, that's true even if correspondents do say it...
He has never allowed any opposition, but after the revolution in November which brought Mr Saakashvili to power in Tbilisi, a pro-Saakashvili opposition movement also emerged in the province.
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
05/02/2004 2:05:30 AM ||
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The U.S. Department of Stateâs Colin Powell has toughened measures against three more Chechen separatist organizations it deems terrorist, placing them on the so-called terrorist exclusion list, the State Department said in a press release Thursday. The move places three organizations â the Islamic International Brigade, the Riyadus-Salikhin Reconnaissance and Sabotage Battalion of Chechen Martyrs, and the Special Purpose Islamic Regiment â on the terrorist exclusion list. It means that members of the groups and those providing them with material support are barred from the United States. The groups were already declared terrorist in February of 2003, meaning that the bank accounts linked to the organizations were subject to be frozen, and that they were deemed a danger to the United States and its citizens. In a statement, the State Department had recognized the groups as involved in the siege of over 800 hostages in the Dubrovka theater in 2002. The current list toughens restrictions on the groups, barring their sponsors from the United States.
Posted by: Fred ||
05/02/2004 1:24:43 AM ||
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#1
State is a little late, again, but at least these killers made the LIST.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 1:39 Comments ||
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Rwandan President Paul Kagame warned he will send troops back into neighboring Congo if Rwandan insurgents continue attacking from bases there, state-run radio reported Saturday. But Kagame dismissed U.N. claims that several hundred Rwandan soldiers were in eastern Congo on April 21, violating the terms of a peace deal that ended Congo's five-year war. Rwanda said its soldiers had not entered Africa's third-largest country since pulling out in October 2002. Kagame accused the U.N. mission in Congo of providing false information, Radio Rwanda reported Saturday.
"They been lying to us!"
The war in Congo started in August 1998 after Rwanda sent troops there to back Congolese rebels seeking to oust then-President Laurent Kabila, accusing him of backing insurgents who threatened regional security. The troops withdrew 18 months ago under a peace deal in which Congo pledged to disarm Rwandan rebels operating inside its borders. Since then, however, Rwanda has complained that Congo has been unable to refused to fulfill its end of the deal. Recently, reports emerged that Rwandan insurgents were massing in Congolese border provinces preparing for attacks on Rwanda. On April 8, Rwandan rebels based in eastern Congo attacked a village inside Rwanda. They were repulsed by government troops, who killed at least 16 insurgents, Rwandan officials said. The United Nations and Congo should "be informed that we shall not hesitate to send our troops back into Congo if the attacks continue," Radio Rwanda quoted Kagame as saying. "We shall do it, and do it in broad daylight."
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 12:23:25 AM ||
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Gunmen waved their weapons in Fallujah's streets and outside car windows Saturday, cheering what they called a victory as U.S. forces pulled back. But the Marines insisted they weren't going far and a new Iraqi force taking the front line will root out die-hard insurgents. The new "Fallujah Brigade," put together by Iraqi generals from Saddam Hussein's ousted regime, likely will include some former army soldiers who fought American forces over the past month, Marine Lt. Gen. James Conway said. He promised, however, that anyone who has "blood on their hands" would not be allowed to stay in the force. Another military official acknowledged that the United States didn't know who the individual members of the force were and that its fighters and commanders still had to be vetted to ensure that they are not connected to crimes of the Saddam regime. The force's leadership could be changed soon because of the screening process.
Not a completely baked idea, eh?
Scores of Iraqis gathered in the streets Saturday morning, some flashing "V" for victory signs and raising the Iraqi flag. Motorists drove through the streets, shouting "Islam, it's your day!" and "We redeem Islam with our blood!" Some were masked with kuffeyahs and raised automatic weapons, members of the insurgency that put up stiff resistance against the Marines. Some guerrillas drove through the city, honking horns and waving their guns out the windows.
Demonstrates the superb discipline of Marine snipers -- I would have potted two or three of these jokers just on general principles.
The new "Fallujah Brigade," led by Maj. Gen. Jassim Mohammed Saleh, fanned out and imposed a cordon around nearly the entire southern half of Fallujah, replacing Marines who were pulling back to set up a second cordon, some five miles from the city.
Yep, let the FPA secure the area the Marines have already taken, so the Marines can get on with more important work.
The willingness to install a relatively unknown armed force with ties to the ousted regime at the forefront of the Fallujah standoff was a sign of U.S. eagerness to find a way out of the siege, which raised an international outcry and angered many Iraqi leaders who supported the United States. A U.S. officer said the Fallujah model, though not a "hard and fast" policy, might be applied elsewhere.
First see if it works here. I have my doubts...
The force came about suddenly - a dramatic reversal less than a week after the United States was threatening to launch a new offensive into Fallujah. The former generals approached Marine commanders and offered to take over security duties in the city using their own former soldiers, the military official said.
Who, keep in mind, are much better at ruthlessly suppressing the population than they are at fighting wars...
Conway, commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, insisted that the U.S. withdrawal did not mean a let-up in the pursuit of the guerrillas. He said Saleh - who served in Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard and as a commander of the Iraqi army's 38th Infantry Division - has presented a plan to confront the city's hard-core militants. "They understand our view that these people must be killed or captured," Conway said. "They have not flinched. And their commander has said as much to his assembly of officers."
One way to find out.
Conway said the Iraqi force will be made up of 1,100 fighters, mostly former army soldiers. Another senior U.S. military official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said about 700 fighters had been gathered under the force so far. Former Iraqi generals are putting together the force, and the ex-soldiers have been their "recruiting pool," Conway said. Conway said he was not concerned that the Iraqi forces, which will be under his overall command, might carry out atrocities or resort to unlawful methods in its hunt for insurgents. But he said Marines would be quick to stop them if they did. "We don't see any extremism in any fashion in this group of Iraqi general officers," he said. "We're not concerned about that at this point. ... There will be no horrific acts." By Saturday, all 700 Marines of the 1st Battalion, 5th Regiment had pulled out of the industrial zone in southern Fallujah, their main forward base in the city. If all goes well on Fallujah's south side, the Iraqi force will next replace Marines in the north within a few days, the official said. "We are not leaving, we will be right there behind them and will move in if things go wrong," the official said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
05/02/2004 12:04:21 AM ||
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#1
At some point in time soon, I'd like to see this Iraqi force senbt in to go get those insurgents still remaining. If they do the job capably, fine, consider it for use in other locations. If not, then no more pussyfooting around. Send in the Marines full-bore and do what has to be done to kill off whoever is left, and if that includes flattening the remaining area, then do it and do it immediately. The sensitivity approach isn't paying off where it needs to.
#2
So they have given up the southern section. This has been a really interesting time. I hope the jibadies get wacked. If not it's pay later. But then again it's their dirty carpet.
#3
This is a case of the Marines preempting the State Dept. The "Fallujah Brigade" is a fig leaf. If they can't or won't deal with the bad guys, the Marines are still in Grim Reaper formation ready to mow them down. The big advantage is it forestalls any half-baked notions that might have come out of State.
#5
This whole thing still confuses me. On the one hand it makes sense for Iraqis to start taking responsibility for security. But I don't trust them. This Iraqi general could just set up his own little mafia fiefdom in Fallujah. If the towns are to be off limits to Americans, what's to prevent this "model" from degenerating into little fiefdoms ruled by local warlords everywhere? And BTW, is Sadr now going to be the warlord/ mafia don of Najaf?
#6
Big, big mistake letting Iraqis take control of Fallujah security. There is a proverb in arabic (but it really should be among muslims)that goes like this: Me and my brother against my cousin, my cousin and I against a stranger (in this case infidel). #5 is right: Never, ever trust a muslim, even if he/she looks to be on your side. Always count on him/her to revert back to tribal-brotherhood-islam loyalty garbage.
#7
I don't see the logic of this. My understanding is months ago the Army pulled out of Fallujah to allow the locals to be in charge of security. The result was we had no control of the city and this eventually led to the murder of the four contractors. Now it appears we're following the same model. I understand the reluctance to fight in the city - it would be a military victory, but a public relations disaster - but I have zero faith in the Iraqis policing themselves in this area.
The political leader of Ivory Coastâs rebel movement said on Saturday the worldâs top cocoa producer could plunge back into war around elections due next year unless President Laurent Gbagbo stepped down. "We are preserving the germs of future genocidal war in Ivory Coast. There will be war again in 2005... all we have done is postpone the war for the elections," Guillaume Soro told supporters in the main rebel stronghold of Bouake.
Of course, this is Africa.
"Only Gbagboâs departure from power will allow us to grab the power we deserve the organization of free and transparent elections in 2005." Ivory Coast has been in crisis since Caesar got drafted March, when dozens of people were killed after a crackdown on a banned anti-Gbagbo march and the opposition froze its role in a power-sharing government meant to reunite the country after civil war. It was declared over last July after all sides agreed to a French-brokered peace plan, but many political reforms have yet to be implemented and the country remains split between a rebel-held north and a south controlled by the elected government Gbagbo loyalists. Gbagbo says the rebels must disarm before political reforms included in the accord can be put in place. The United Nations Security Council has said it may act against any individual blocking the implementation of the peace deal, which included a power-sharing pact between the government and rebels.
The UN is threatening to act? Quick, Ethel, my pills!
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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#4
The 'nuanced Phrench' have their own little 'hidden' problems.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 3:55 Comments ||
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#5
[Troll droppings deleted]
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
05/02/2004 4:14 Comments ||
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#6
Soooo, whatcha wanna do about it, Man Bites Dog, round up the Muslims and put them into camps where you'll exterminate them?
Should we call you Hitler or Zenster? I'm confused.
Posted by: Jen ||
05/02/2004 6:17 Comments ||
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#7
Jen, I must admit MBD's writing style is a lot like Zenster's. And I agree with you that he exhibits definite trollish behaviour, but Zenster redeemed hiself a little, by exhibiting a moderate talent for humor. Although his attempt yesterday at irony/satire fell flat.
Posted by: Phil B ||
05/02/2004 7:37 Comments ||
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#8
Jen exclaims:
Soooo, whatcha wanna do about it, Man Bites Dog, round up the Muslims and put them into camps where you'll exterminate them?
Well, I predict that it will come to exactly that. If we are not prepared to do that to save our society and future, then it's time to start dressing our daughters in burqa's and teaching them submissivness.
Islam must be exterminated, completely.
-AR
Posted by: Analog Roam ||
05/02/2004 9:14 Comments ||
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#9
The only question remaining is ...do we have enough RAID ? :)
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 22:27 Comments ||
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#10
If you have termites in your house, you have a wood structure problem. If you have Muslims in your country, you have a security problem.
Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL ||
05/02/2004 4:14 Comments ||
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Pakistan on Saturday released 78 Pakistani and Afghan tribesmen arrested during a recent counterterrorism operation near the Afghan border and extended a deadline for suspected fugitives to surrender. Local official Hamayun Khan said the 78 men had been freed by the army in the northwestern city of Peshawar after investigators declared them innocent, allowing them to return to their homes in South Waziristan.
Pure as the driven snow, they were!
In all, 141 of the 163 Pakistani and foreign suspects captured during the March 16-18 operation in the region have been released. The operation, which left more than 120 people dead, ended when tribal elders sought time to weasel out of negotiate a deal between local militants and the army. A week ago, five powerful tribesmen accused of harboring al-Qaida men accepted an amnesty offer, promising to live peacefully and not help foreign terrorists. As part of the deal, the army promised to release all prisoners proved innocent. It has not identified any of the detainees, but none are believed to be senior al-Qaida or Taliban figures.
"Hokay, Mahmoud, answer this: are you a member of al-Qaeda or the Taliban?"
"No!"
"Hokay, good enough for me! You can go."
The regional army chief set April 30 as a deadline for the hundreds of foreign militants who had escaped arrest to surrender, saying that if they pledged to stay out of trouble, and were vouched for by the local tribe, they would be allowed to stay in South Waziristan.
Which is what South Wazairistan deserves.
The interior minister has said the amnesty is open to all foreigners there except Taliban and al-Qaida leaders. By Friday, no foreigners had come forward, raising fears of renewed bloodshed. On Saturday, however, army spokesman Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan said authorities had agreed to a weeklong extension in the amnesty offer. He said local tribal elders had approached the government, seeking more time to convince foreigners to lay down arms and register themselves with the authorities. Not all the foreigners in South Waziristan are terror suspects. Many are Afghan refugees. Others are Central Asian and Arab veterans of the anti-Soviet war in Afghanistan in the 1980s who settled in Pakistan, often marrying into local families. Foreign militants have not been seen in Wana, the main town in South Waziristan, since the operation ended. Officials say the rebels have moved to caves near the border with Afghanistan with light and heavy weapons.
They're just simple homesteaders with AK's and mortars.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
05/02/2004 12:00:00 AM ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Lest we forget: Courtesy of the Religion of "Peace"â¢. 
Zahida before her husband's kind "makeover." 
These photos are caught from a video film that has been filmed by RAWA on August 26, 2001 in Kabul using a hidden camera. It shows two Taliban from department of Amro bil mahroof (Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, Taliban religious police) beating a woman in public because she has dared to remove her burqa in public. 
