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2008-08-10 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
Now Russia Blaming Turkey
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Posted by Anonymoose 2008-08-10 11:30|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [10799 views ]  Top

#1 now we see why it was so important to allow turkey to come after the kurdish commies hiding in n iraq........the new kurdish sub state got stronger, turkey more secure. responsible policy at the edge, because its always at the edge where things tend to break.
Posted by Spiny Gl 2511 2008-08-10 12:09||   2008-08-10 12:09|| Front Page Top

#2 Yesterday it was the US, the West and Ukraine. Now Turkey.
Do they blame China tomorrow?
Posted by 3dc 2008-08-10 12:33||   2008-08-10 12:33|| Front Page Top

#3 They might as well. They used the Olympic games the Chinese spent billions of dollars on, and as a result they'll be remembered as the Useful Distraction For Russia instead of China re-establishing itself as a great power the way they wanted, all so Russia will be able to run up the cost of the oil that China is a net importer of.

You also remember, I hope, that China has at least as strong a historical claim to Sakhalin Island and large chunks of Siberia as they do to Taiwan?
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-10 12:43||   2008-08-10 12:43|| Front Page Top

#4 Putin and the rest of that gang are nothing but a bunch of thugs. Russian mafia is a good term for that government. A drive by would be good for the Russian people.
Posted by Shump Forkbeard8770 2008-08-10 12:44||   2008-08-10 12:44|| Front Page Top

#5 I guess Russia is too concerned with selling qeapons to Turkey in the future?
Posted by Mike N. 2008-08-10 14:32||   2008-08-10 14:32|| Front Page Top


The Armenian Economist comments on the military confrontation between Georgia and Russia noting that 96 percent of Armenia’s trade goes via its northern neighbor. The blog says that Armenia will suffer as a result and concludes that it is now effectively blockaded on all sides.

Much of the country’s exports are destined west, and much of its imports, other than Russian natural gas which is piped through Georgia, are also from the west. The infrastructure that makes these transactions possible is Georgia’s, which by extension is Armenia’s. Unfortunately, this infrastructure is getting degraded with the
escalation in hostilities.

From an economic perspective, there will be no winners, and Armenia will be a casualty of this war. There is nothing that the government can do to alter the status quo. […] The country is de facto blockaded on all sides, by (1) instability to the north, (2) Azerbaijan to the east, Iran (the terrain and distance) to the south, and (4) Turkey to the west. Unless wisdom prevails, this winter can be very cold!

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-10 16:25||   2008-08-10 16:25|| Front Page Top

#7 Big problem for the russians is that they rubbled the city they were "protecting" with heavy artillery last night, inflicting massive casualties on the citizens they were allegedly there to save.

The mask is off - Putin is a thug and Russia is now a thug nation and must be treated as such.

Startign with armin our allies inthe region. First: Ukraine in NATO with US basing rights after they eject the Russian Black Sea fleet (and they have already publicly threatened to not allow any Russian warship to return that participates in the current actions).

And if the Germans stand in the way of Ukraine in NATO liek they did Georgia, then screw the Germans - kick them OUT of NATO -- They're useless cowards anyway, with piss poor troops that have little fighting ability, and are more likely to run than fight thanks to their politicians.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-10 16:31||   2008-08-10 16:31|| Front Page Top

#8 It seems to me a good opportunity to drive another wedge between the Russians and Chinese. How I don't know.
Posted by rjschwarz 2008-08-10 16:31||   2008-08-10 16:31|| Front Page Top

#9 From Information Dissemination :
Both Interfax and independent sources have noted NATO style vehicles heading north. The Interfax report ran at 14:19 GMT. Anyone have any guesses?

Based on the piecemeal reporting we are finding, it appears the tactic sounds a bit like the way Bing West described the Marine assault on Fallujah. Essentially Russia is working to surround the city with armor and mechanized forces and intends to bring up the infantry (might be the paratroopers that were flown in) to enter the city to support the mechanized units already there. The 58th Army has been blooded, by some reports badly, it appears Georgia is having some success with a combination of irregular and conventional military forces. Both Georgia and Russia have used artillery on Tskhinvali and have blasted the city to hell. The civilian death toll there may be much higher than reported. Multiple sources confirm both sides are using heavy artillery on the city.

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-10 16:35||   2008-08-10 16:35|| Front Page Top

#10 comments from same:
the su-25 production facility (it also produces various air-to-air missiles) has been bombed, apparently the Georgians used it and its runways as an airbase.
Posted by 3dc 2008-08-10 16:39||   2008-08-10 16:39|| Front Page Top

#11 Another one from the same blog:
For whatever this is worth, I have seen the explanation that while the 58th Army has all the airpower in needs the orders from Moscow to actually start using it have been slow coming. Specifically I have been told that Georgian SU-25 have been tracked over Tskhinvali by Russian "Tunguska's" but the order to engage was not given. Dunno if that true or not and it sure does not explain how the Russians managed to loose 2 (and even 5 according to some, unconfirmed, reports) aircraft on day 1 including, amazingly, a Tu-22M3. (Backfire)
Posted by 3dc 2008-08-10 16:44||   2008-08-10 16:44|| Front Page Top

#12 Turks are applyin naval pressure, partolling off Batumi, Georgia.

I wonder if they will escort civilian freighters wiht humanitarian aid into the other ports of Georgia, specifically Puti,, which is apparently blockaded by the Russian Black Sea flotilla.

If so, we ought to assign a destroyer to assist.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-10 16:49||   2008-08-10 16:49|| Front Page Top

#13 Translations of blogs from the area... at this link example
On August 10th, divisions of the Abkhazian army entered the Gali district of the republic, which is monitored by the joint peacekeeping forces, and have taken up positions along the border river Ingur, reports Christian Bzhaniya, head of the press office of the President of Abkhazia, to an IA Regnum correspondent. "Currently, we are taking countermeasures against provocations by the Georgian side and enforcing law and order in the border zone. The Abkhazian army does not plan on crossing into Georgian territory at this stage of the operation. Even though Georgia's statement about beginning to force its way to the river Ingur constitutes a provocation," he emphasized. Bzhania has called the provocations the beginning of a large-scale information war with Tbilisi, referring to a statement made by the Georgian Ministry of Internal Affairs saying that Abkhazia plans to pillage the Zugdidi region of Georgia and for this reason has created a special corridor.

"Similar provocative statements by the Georgian leadership and news media aggravated the conflict in 1992. Similar statements have once again become the ideology in the recent aggressions against South Ossetia," he emphasized. "We understand that now Tbilisi is undertaking efforts to spread disinformation, but at any moment this could lead to quite real consequences," says Bzhaniya.

Regarding the situation in the upper part of the Kodori Gorge, Bzhaniya reports that the rocket and artillery fire continues to come from Georgians who have taken up positions there in violation of all international agreements. He also reports that a fleet of war ships from the Russian Navy continue to protect Abkhazia's coastline. "Today we are also strengthing the numbers of our peacekeeping forces. They have been brought to the Sokhumi airport by military transport planes... These steps have been taken to prevent a similar situation to what has happened to Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia, from happening here," emphasized Bzhaniya.

IA Regnum

Posted by 3dc 2008-08-10 16:53||   2008-08-10 16:53|| Front Page Top

#14 So the Russians think it's some kind of crime to sell weapons to a sovereign country?
Posted by Darrell 2008-08-10 16:57||   2008-08-10 16:57|| Front Page Top

#15 Only if somebody else sells them.
Posted by Fred 2008-08-10 17:26||   2008-08-10 17:26|| Front Page Top

#16 "Abkhazian army "

Russian lapdogs and proxies.
Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-10 18:09||   2008-08-10 18:09|| Front Page Top

#17 Thread > NOW TURKEY IS INVOLVED - RUSSIAN AGENTS: TURKEISH TROOPS, ARMORED VEHICLES NOW IN GEORGIA. Turkish ship loaded for bear allegedly off the coast???
Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-08-10 20:49||   2008-08-10 20:49|| Front Page Top

#18 And if the Germans stand in the way of Ukraine in NATO liek they did Georgia, then screw the Germans - kick them OUT of NATO -- They're useless cowards anyway, with piss poor troops that have little fighting ability, and are more likely to run than fight thanks to their politicia

I'm just quoting that so it shows up twice.
Posted by .5MT 2008-08-10 20:53||]">[]  2008-08-10 20:53|| Front Page Top

#19 I doubt anything's gonna come of it, though, Joe.
Posted by Fred 2008-08-10 21:02||   2008-08-10 21:02|| Front Page Top

#20 Maybe this is the way the UN ends.
Posted by Gladys 2008-08-10 21:34||   2008-08-10 21:34|| Front Page Top

#21 Life would certainly be more cost-effective then, Gladys. ;-)
Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife  2008-08-10 21:52||   2008-08-10 21:52|| Front Page Top

#22 Ah, just like the good old days. The Russian bear does a classic smash-mouth annexation. Just a little reminder for those that needed to remember who was who.

I have no doubt that European weakness invited this attack. Further weakness will invite additional attacks. European so-called soft power was always a loser, now it can be seen as such by even the myopic. No wonder the Euro is down.
Posted by Slats Glans2659 2008-08-10 22:35||   2008-08-10 22:35|| Front Page Top

#23 "Maybe this is the way the UN ends."

Oh, please please please please....
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2008-08-10 22:36||]">[]  2008-08-10 22:36|| Front Page Top

#24 can people stop going on about annexation? Theyre not going to annex georgia - thats not how putin works. Hes never annexed any of the stans that are subordinate to Moscow.

They will try to drive saalikhashivili from power, and get someone more subservient in place. Thats really all they need to do to send a message to everyone else, isnt it?

as for Germany, well this is a different situation now. I wouldnt prejudge their position. And NATO wouldnt be worth much without them, so lets not be in a hurry to ditch them.
Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-10 23:05||   2008-08-10 23:05|| Front Page Top

#25 The UN has survived worse. Why would the UN end cause of this? Only the far lefty illusion that the UN is some kind of world govt would end - the UN is NOT that, its a debating club, a convenient for heads of state to meet, and a bunch of technical agencies, some of considerable importance. Oh, and it also runs peacekeeping in those limited areas where all the great powers can agree its a good idea. Its NOT the world govt, either as some hope, or as some fear.
Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-10 23:08||   2008-08-10 23:08|| Front Page Top

#26 And NATO wouldnt be worth much without them, so lets not be in a hurry to ditch them.

I'm not sure NATO is worth very much with them either.
Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2008-08-10 23:18||   2008-08-10 23:18|| Front Page Top

#27 LH
Are you sure that the USSR just didn't do a Chapt 11 re-org?
Like bet your life sure?
I still think the fell to easy...
Posted by 3dc 2008-08-10 23:20||   2008-08-10 23:20|| Front Page Top

23:55 Red Dawg
23:40 Halliburton - Asymmetrical Reply Division
23:38 rjschwarz
23:36 rjschwarz
23:35 JosephMendiola
23:35 Sock Puppet of Doom
23:21 tipper
23:20 3dc
23:18 Abdominal Snowman
23:17 Halliburton Earthquake Division
23:08 liberalhawk
23:05 liberalhawk
23:01 tipper
22:58 trailing wife
22:49 Abu do you love
22:42 Barbara Skolaut
22:38 Sock Puppet of Doom
22:36 Barbara Skolaut
22:35 Slats Glans2659
22:20 trailing wife
22:17 KBK
22:15 Halliburton - Asymmetrical Reply Division
22:15 trailing wife
22:01 M. Murcek

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