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2005-11-16 Home Front: Culture Wars

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Posted by Fred 2005-11-16 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I toured the Dachau death camp and I would imagine the German people would be the first ones to want to deny the holocaust. Well if it didn't happen they created a pretty convincing set to prove that it did happen. Most disgusting place I've ever been and every Holocaust denier should be forced to spend time examing such locations and providing 'proof' that the locations are not real and explaintions on why the sets were created.

Posted by rjschwarz">rjschwarz 2005-11-16 00:25|| 2005-11-16 00:25|| Front Page Top

#2 Kinda wish I could edit this one a bit . . .

A man who published a study that he said proved the Nazis did not gas Jews at Auschwitz has been ~~deported from the US to his native Germany to serve a prison term for Holocaust denial~~ put down like a rabid dog.

Posted by Mike 2005-11-16 06:59|| 2005-11-16 06:59|| Front Page Top

#3 Hate Crime = Thought Crime

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-11-16 08:59|| 2005-11-16 08:59|| Front Page Top

#4 Hate Crime = Thought Crime

That's misleading bullshit. A Hate Crime is less of a crime and more of a terrorist act. The crime has an effect above and beyond the specific target in a way other crimes do not. That may not be the intent of a hate crime but that is the result and it should be treated for all the tertiary victims caused in addition to the specific victim of the crime.

Having said that Holocaust denial is not and should not be a Hate Crime. It's just stupid and that's a cause of crime but not a crime in itself.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-11-16 09:57|| 2005-11-16 09:57|| Front Page Top

#5 "...Holocaust denial... It's just stupid..."

RJâ¦we have no disagreement there.
Iâm not looking for a dust-up here but believe so called Hate Crimes are flawed in both theory and practice. And Holocaust denial, in some countries, is commanly refered to as a Hate Crime. An act of violence is a crime. Openly advocating acts of violence is a crime. Slander is a crime. Libel is a crime. Negligence is a crime. No matter how odious an opinion may be, without proving criminal intent, is not a crime. Because it is impossible to anticipate all reactions to all opinions, proving cause in Hate Crimes is inherently subjective. IMHO, establishing motivation in any crime should be based more on empirical evidence and less on conjecture.

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-11-16 12:14|| 2005-11-16 12:14|| Front Page Top

#6 I agree, the Germans have real issues with censorship. But being as they are Germans and have some pretty nasty history behind them I'm happy to let them police themselves.

I also agree Hate Crimes are ill used because Reginald Denny's attackers would never find themselves prosecuted for hate crimes when they attacked him purely because of his race. Crimes that apply only to some groups are meaningless.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-11-16 12:25|| 2005-11-16 12:25|| Front Page Top

#7 Depot Guy, when you find me one single Holocaust Denier that does not simultaneously advocate extermination of the Jews, please let me know. The two go hand in hand. While I share your own concerns about the vagueness of hate crime terminology, I have an even greater detestation of Nazis and their historically revisionist mentality.

There is a direct connection between Hitler's genocide and the current Islamofacist meme we are fighting today. Merely Google Grand Mufti - Arafat - Hitler for the needed links. Neither of these poisonous mindsets should be shown any quarter.

My mother's family survived the Nazi occupation of Denmark. Members of her family were killed in reprisals or died from the deprivations of occupation. All Nazi supporters are walking hate crimes. There are absolutely no redeeming features to this outmoded and barbarous political abbatoire. I fail to see where complete outlawing of Nazi affiliation or glorification would do our world the least harm. Nazis, like Islamists, are genocidal maggots who have overstayed their welcome on the earth.

How often do you hear that the Death Camps were merely burial facilities for Jews who happened to perish during the war years? Again, Holocaust Denial is tantamount to condoning The Genocide. It is a way to give some whiff of propriety to one of the most monstrous crimes ever committed against humanity.

Posted by Zenster 2005-11-16 14:10|| 2005-11-16 14:10|| Front Page Top

#8 regardless of who is right and who is wrong re: hate crime = thought crime.... we're just sending him back to Germany. Pick your battles.

Posted by 2b 2005-11-16 15:19|| 2005-11-16 15:19|| Front Page Top

#9 Slander, libel and negligence are not crimes. They are torts, civil wrongs made actionable by law. They are not prosecuted by the state.

Posted by Sgt. D.T. 2005-11-16 15:38|| 2005-11-16 15:38|| Front Page Top

#10 "Depot Guy, when you find me one single Holocaust Denier that does not simultaneously advocate extermination of the Jews, please let me know."

Zenster, I hate to go down this road because of the obvious stigma attatched to the Holcaust. And my intention was not to defend those that deny it occured. But review the curious case of Ernst Zundel. From what I can tell he never has advocated violence much less "extermination of the Jews". He has questioned the "accepted" version of history. Others have used his opinions to support all sorts of conclusions that he may or may not share. So now he sits in a German prison for "incitement" for a law he didn't even break in that country. You have to wonder...what's the next "accepted" version of history that will be off limits.

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-11-16 15:44|| 2005-11-16 15:44|| Front Page Top

#11 Re: Tort vs. Crime.

Sorry, last Bar Exam question I answered was...
Is this Bourban 7 year of 10 year.
BTW- I got that one right. (several times)

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-11-16 16:22|| 2005-11-16 16:22|| Front Page Top

#12 My dad visited Dachau the day it was liberated. He had some VERY nasty things to say about it. He refused to even consider that there could be "good" Germans. I lived in Germany for 10 years between 1971 and 1989. He refused to come visit me there, solely based on memories of Dachau. Send this guy packing and let the Germans deal with him - I have no use for him, and his smell is polluting my country.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2005-11-16 21:00|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2005-11-16 21:00|| Front Page Top

#13 Zenster, I hate to go down this road because of the obvious stigma attatched to the Holcaust.

I understand completely. The basic subject tends to load the discussion in ways that entirely mask other salient points.

And my intention was not to defend those that deny it occured. But review the curious case of Ernst Zundel. From what I can tell he never has advocated violence much less "extermination of the Jews". He has questioned the "accepted" version of history.

Ever see the PBS Nova program where they used the Nazi death camp blue prints to positively prove that these facilities were most definitely NOT merely funeral processing crematoriums, but slaughter houses?

We are confronted with disgusting revisionism in our own times. Merely look at how PC morons have tried to force the 9-11 "Iwo Jima" type statue to depict a multi-racial group erecting the flag, instead of the all-white bunch of guys that it actually was.

Rudolph maintains that there was no gas used on the Jews. What was Zyklon B, whipping cream propellant? Yes, I know it was originally a de-lousing agent, but we all know what it was really used for.

For him to have "concluded that "no mass gassings with hydrogen cyanide took place in the National Socialist concentration camp Auschwitz"." reeks of denial to me.

Fear not, hate crime smacks of thought crime. I'll not argue that. Perhaps, I'd just like to see organizations that are essentially genocidal in nature simply eliminated. In the last few years, I've become much less receptive to Nazis being protected by free speech.

Posted by Zenster 2005-11-16 21:05|| 2005-11-16 21:05|| Front Page Top

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